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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2021 14:57:53 GMT -5
Greetings, I have researched this so far, all from Jewish perspective:- The following sentence of the Midrash is characteristic: "When a man sleeps, the body tells to the neshamah ["the soul"] what it has done during the day; the neshamah then reports it to the nefesh ["the spirit"], the nefesh to the angel, the angel to the cherub, and the cherub to the seraph, who then brings it before God [Lev. R. xxii.; Eccl. R. x. 20]. Rob comments" This is interesting. There is no mention of Jesus....how sad
Ga 3:19 ¶ Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
This Greek word is used much Ps 68:17 The chariots of God are twenty thousand , even thousands of angels <shin'an>: (meaning twice) This verse is quoted in the NT Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, (aggelos) Notice the Psalm says chariots, from the vision of Ezekiel, cherub, God rides upon cherub. an innumerable company of cherub. I have just found a link from aggelos to cherub. Back to mediator:- 1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; My understanding is the HS brings your thoughts of God to Jesus, who brings them to the Father. We have two comforters before the Father: Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; That makes two comforters before the Father, Jesus and the HS. Heb 8:6 ¶ But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. The old covenant used mediators like Moses, the New covenant uses Jesus, as a simile of Moses, both human and god. The perfect better mediator than Moses. Heb 9:15 ¶ And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. SO the blood of animals under the old covenant, is replaced by the death and blood of a perfect high priest human, Jesus our Saviour. Our midrash comments lacks so much.... When Pharaoh pursued Israel at the Red Sea, God took a cherub from the wheels of His throne and flew to the spot—for He inspects the heavenly worlds while sitting on a cherub. The cherub, however, is ["something not material"], and is carried by God, not vice versa (Midr. Teh. xviii. 15; Cant. R. i. 9). Maimonides ("Yad," Yesode ha-Torah, ii. 7) enumerates ten classes of angels, the cherubim being the ninth; while the cabalistic "Masseket Aẓilut" designates the cherubim as the third class of angels, with a leader named Kerubiel (; Jellinek, "Auswahl Kabbalistischer Mystik," p. 3). In the Zohar, where also ten classes of angels are enumerated, the cherubim are not mentioned as a special class (compare Zohar, Ex. Bo, 43a)". from www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/4311-cherubRob comments" so the cherub is mentioned in the midrash comments of Jews.It is recorded as a miracle that when Israel was worshiping the Lord, the cherubim lovingly turned their faces toward each other (B. B. l.c.), and even embraced like a loving couple. On these occasions the curtain was raised so that the Jews who had come on pilgrimage might convince themselves how much God loved them (Yoma 54a). At the (destruction of the Temple the heathen found the cherubim in this posture; and they mocked the Jews because of their obscene worship, thinking the cherubim to be the objects of it (Yoma 54b). This conception of the cherubim, as representing the union of Israel with God, has been further developed by the Cabala, the cherubim being taken to represent the mysterious union of the earthly with the heavenly (see Baḥya b. Asher to Ex. xxv. 20; Zohar, Terumah, ii. 176a). The symbolical interpretation of the Alexandrians, mentioned above, is also found in rabbinical sources. Midr. Tadshe (ed. Epstein, p. 15), like Philo, takes the cherubim to symbolize the two names of God, Yhwh and Elohim, by which rabbinical theology (see, for example, Sifre, Deut. 26) designates the two attributes ("goodness") and ("justice"). Another Midrash (Num. R. iv.) compares the cherubim with heaven and earth, as do the Alexandrians mentioned by Philo("De Cherubim," vii.). Maimonides says ("Moreh Nebukim," iii. 45) that the figures of the cherubim were placed in the sanctuary only to preserve among the people the belief in angels, there being two in order that the people might not be led to believe that they were the image of God. There were no cherubim in the Temple of Herod; but according to some authorities, its walls were painted with figures of cherubim (Yoma 54a).Rob comments" The cherub is though to be angels?? do Jews consider this idea? yesen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherub
The cherubim are the most frequently occurring heavenly creature in the Hebrew Bible, as the Hebrew word appears 91 times.[5] The first occurrence is in the Book of Genesis 3:24. Despite these many references, the role of the cherubim is never explicitly elucidated.[7] Rob comments" Why is Scripture written as a parable? hidden secrets?While Hebrew tradition must have conceived of the cherubim as guardians of the Garden of Eden[3] (in which they guard the way to the Tree of life),[20] they are often depicted as performing other roles; for example in the Book of Ezekiel, they transport Yahweh's throne. The cherub who appears in the "Song of David", a poem which occurs twice in the Hebrew Bible, in 2 Samuel 22 and Psalm 18, participates in Yahweh's theophany and is imagined as a vehicle upon which the deity descends to earth from heaven in order to rescue the speaker (see 2 Samuel 22:11, Psalm 18:10).[21]Many forms of Judaism include a belief in the existence of angels, including cherubim within the Jewish angelic hierarchy. The existence of angels is generally accepted within traditional rabbinic Judaism. There is, however, a wide range of beliefs within Judaism about what angels actually are and how literally one should interpret biblical passages associated with them.Rob comments" While Jews accept cherub as angels, they have wide views about them In Kabbalah there has long been a strong belief in cherubim, the cherubim and other angels regarded as having mystical roles. The Zohar, a highly significant collection of books in Jewish mysticism, states that the cherubim were led by one of their number named Kerubiel.[3]Rob comments" Now I look for archons in Jewish literaturewww.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/alien_watchers22.htm
In the Gnostic view of human society, the Archons are alien forces that act through authoritarian systems, including belief-systems, in ways that cause human beings to turn against their innate potential and violate the symbiosis of nature.LIVE spelled backwards is EVIL, but the Archons are not evil in the sense that they possess autonomous powers of destruction, able to be applied directly upon humanity.They are agents of error rather than evil - but human error, when it goes uncorrected and runs beyond the scale of correction, turns into evil and works against the universal plan of life. Gnostics taught that the Archons exploit our tendency to let our mistakes go uncorrected.A close reading reveals a crucial detail: after the initial formation of the embryonic Archon types, a second variant of "shadow body" arises, with distinct characteristics of its own. Rob comments" Interesting. Having trouble finding that Jews have a belief in archons, before the Greek era. The Hypostasis of the Archons describes it as "an arrogant beast resembling a lion," but this creature is also described (in another cosmological text, the Apocryphon of John 10: 5) as "a serpentine body (drakon) with a lion-like face." Thus there are two distinct types of Archons:a fetal or embryonic typea drakonic or reptilian typeIn The Hypostasis of the Archons (93: 30 - 94:5), a supplicant asks the great angel Eleleth,"Teach me about the faculty of the Archons, how did they come into being, and by what kind of genesis, of what material, and who created them and produced their force." The teachings given in response to this question were precise and detailed. Two distinct variants of the Archon type are indicated, and their behaviors are also specified. Another cosmological treatise, The Tripartite Tractate, states that "the two orders [of Archons] assaulted one another, fighting for command because of their manner of being."(84: 5-15)Due to the two distinct stages of their generation, the Archons are invested with an aggressive and divisive nature, fighting among their own ranks.Rob comments" DO you have any Jews believing in archons before the Greek era, Dave? I can't find any?
I have found enough evidence that chariots, cherub, messengers, aggelos relate to cherubs. I will pursue some more... Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 18, 2021 17:46:31 GMT -5
The following sentence of the Midrash is characteristic: "When a man sleeps, the body tells to the neshamah ["the soul"] what it has done during the day; the neshamah then reports it to the nefesh ["the spirit"], the nefesh to the angel, the angel to the cherub, and the cherub to the seraph, who then brings it before God [Lev. R. xxii.; Eccl. R. x. 20]. Rob comments" This is interesting. There is no mention of Jesus....how sadGod = Jesus = Holy Spirit = word = word = word = TrinityBut – you deny the divinity of Christ – how sadGa 3:19 ¶ Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. This Greek word is used much – what Greek word?1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; My understanding is the HS brings your thoughts of God to Jesus, who brings them to the Father. There is only One true God = Jesus = Holy Spirit = word = word = word = TrinityBut – you deny the divinity of Christ – and now the Holy Spirit - how sadWe have two comforters before the Father:Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; That makes two comforters before the Father, Jesus and the HS. There is only One true God = Jesus = Holy Spirit = word = word = word = Trinity But – you deny the divinity of Christ – and now the Holy Spirit - how sad. In the Zohar, where also ten classes of angels are enumerated, the cherubim are not mentioned as a special class (compare Zohar, Ex. Bo, 43a)". fromJust as satan and Michael are not mentioned as a type – but as a functionIf God sends me to fix your plumbing – I am the Plumber If God sends me to kill all the first born in Egypt – I am the angel of death If God sends me to pick on JOB – I am a satan www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/4311-cherubRob comments" so the cherub is mentioned in the midrash comments of Jews.Jew weight information – Torah 1st, Prophets 2nd , Temple Scrolls 3rd , Mid Rash = Legends of the JewsThis conception of the cherubim, as representing the union of Israel with God, has been further developed by the Cabala, the cherubim being taken to represent the mysterious union of the earthly with the heavenly (see Baḥya b. Asher to Ex. xxv. 20; Zohar, Terumah, ii. 176a). Man + Holy Spirit through Christ = a Divine Pardon – Born Again – Spiritual Christians Even from the very oldest text possible!There were no cherubim in the Temple of Herod; but according to some authorities, its walls were painted with figures of cherubim (Yoma 54a).YES ROBERT WHAT ABOUT THIS?Exo 25:17 “Then you are to make an atonement cover of pure gold, two and a half cubits long, one cubit and a half wide. Exo 25:18 Also make two cheruvim of gold, from hammered work, at the two ends of the atonement cover. Exo 25:19 Make one cheruv at one end and one cheruv at the other end. Of one piece with the atonement cover you are to make the cheruvim at its two ends. YOU DEMAND THAT CHERUB IS THE ONLY ANGEL TYPE YOU DEMAND GOD CANNOT VIOLATE THE 10 COMMANDMENTSExo 20:4 Do not make for yourself a graven image , or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or on the earth below or in the water under the earth. Hmmm?www.thetorah.com/article/the-cherubim-their-role-on-the-ark-in-the-holy-of-holiesDr. RabbiZev Farber - The Cherubim: Their Role on the Ark in the Holy of Holies The most intriguing and surprising aspect of the Ark, and possibly the whole Mishkan, are the Cherubs on the Ark’s cover. What are cherubs? The Torah describes them in detail in Exodus 25: Tradition has interpreted the Cherubs to represent anything from a child to a man, woman to an angel, from a bird to a Torah scholar. Ancient Near Eastern evidence answers this uncertainty, or at least tells us what the Cherubim originally meant. Rob comments" The cherub is thought to be angels?? do Jews consider this idea? yesNot according to the Torah.com – cherub is a function On the ark as – wait for it – Guardian Angelsen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherub The cherubim are the most frequently occurring heavenly creature in the Hebrew Bible, as the Hebrew word appears 91 times.[5] The first occurrence is in the Book of Genesis 3:24. Despite these many references, the role of the cherubim is never explicitly elucidated.[7] Rob comments" Why is Scripture written as a parable? hidden secrets?Excuse me – your source said – heavenly creatures – an in bane elohiyn the sons of a heavenly creatureYou are the one claiming angle onlyRob comments" While Jews accept cherub as angels, they have wide views about them Answer – they are expose to a lot more information than Rome allows you to readIn Kabbalah there has long been a strong belief in cherubim, the cherubim and other angels regarded as having mystical roles. The Zohar, a highly significant collection of books in Jewish mysticism, states that the cherubim were led by one of their number named Kerubiel.[3] OK – Zohar Mysticism – King Solomon stuff - - a sub set – a chapter of its own NOT the FOCUSE of the ZoharRob comments" Now I look for archons in Jewish literaturewww.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/alien_watchers22.htmOK Gnostic Archon = Enoch’s Watchers – absolutely agree – names don’t matter all the same etityIn the Gnostic view of human society, the Archons are alien forces that act through authoritarian systems, including belief-systems, in ways that cause human beings to turn against their innate potential and violate the symbiosis of nature. LIVE spelled backwards is EVIL,This is cool – neg-entropy – entropybut the Archons are not evil in the sense that they possess autonomous powers of destruction, able to be applied directly upon humanity. They are agents of error rather than evil - but human error, when it goes uncorrected and runs beyond the scale of correction, turns into evil and works against the universal plan of life. Gnostics taught that the Archons exploit our tendency to let our mistakes go uncorrected. the Archons are not evilNot as Roman fallen Angels doctrine teachers – spooky demons that want to garb you in the dark GHOSTAre cows evil – no they are (yester ra) Are baboons evil – No they are (yester ra) just more creative and irritating than cows Is the serpent race evil? – they are made with some matter – this is where they get their (yester ra) We are told that the first thought of the Beast = SELF and SELF ONLY = (yester ra) We are also told that they are much more devious than baboons We are told they are – both visible and invisible As if they exist just one energy level higher than us - just outside our field of vision Since they are 4D (example) and we are 3D – they can pop into our D = interdimensional visitation = UFOs = archon = demons = PRINCIPALITIES A close reading reveals a crucial detail: after the initial formation of the embryonic Archon types, a second variant of "shadow body" arises, with distinct characteristics of its own.Not sure what this meansAre all the archon unique and individual – yes – just as cows or baboons Archon can and do have – ‘shadow body’ – Shadow People - my witness Archon can also shape shift – just make you think you see whatever they want The Hypostasis of the Archons - Yes I will speak to this But only to the - The Coptic Gnostic Library Project (CGLP) version – because it is what I have in printDisclaimer – this is an unpolished – single translation – no other copies to compare against for self-correction. Without this, we cannot rule out – poor translation within the original. Plato is also with the Nag Hammadi – parts of it miss Plato’s larger picture – the words are there without the depth of meaning The Coptic Greek Word Archon – means authorities / rulers if you want There are times when it is not clear which ruler they are referring to These considerations must apply – or the discussion is worthless any attempt to spoil the messege ove a word or a phrase or evena passage is just an attempt to attack the source. If you saw an origional Gosple - it would not read like your KJV The Hypostasis of the Archons describes it as "an arrogant beast resembling a lion," but this creature is also described (in another cosmological text, the Apocryphon of John 10: 5) as "a serpentine body (drakon) with a lion-like face." Thus there are two distinct types of Archons:OR – they are multidimensional creatures – Ezk 1 four face = one angel Actually – King Solomon describe many types
a drakonic or reptilian type – serpent racea fetal or embryonic type – invisible?Another cosmological treatise, The Tripartite Tractate, states that "the two orders [of Archons] assaulted one another, fighting for command because of their manner of being." Due to the two distinct stages of their generation, the Archons are invested with an aggressive and divisive nature, fighting among their own ranks.Not on my list of reading - do not know it well - focused more upon Paul, Peter, James, Phillip, Thomas Not saying it is bad or good - but I do not know it YES – one (yester ra) vrs another (Yester ra) All of the ‘other gods’ were jealous of one another – some fought against one another Some used man as puppets to fight their wars for them All over the the globe – the whole world = the religion of the 99% - The Brast and his archon Rob comments" DO you have any Jews believing in archons before the Greek era, Dave? I can't find any? Rob comments" Interesting. Having trouble finding that Jews have a belief in archons, before the Greek era. Wrong question and you know it – word manSearch shedim – search Beelzebub – search Lilith – search any of the ancient religions of the 99%
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2021 16:32:03 GMT -5
D"God = Jesus = Holy Spirit = word = word = word = Trinity But – you deny the divinity of Christ – how sad R" so you believe there are three words? Pr 30:5 Every word of God is pure:
This verse is special, it doesn't say elohiym, it says imrah and eloah.
The words of Jesus are the words of the Father personified in Jesus. ONE word, the WORDS of the Father.
How can I deny the divinity of Jesus, if Jesus is divine Dave? You say that Jesus is the Father in a different expression. So you don't have a Father and a SON. What you have is role playing, one Father becomes a SON in a different expression. What is that? Shape shifting. What is even more strange is the Father talks in prayer to the Father in the NT, all the time. Weird.
D" This Greek word is used much – what Greek word? R" mediator <mesites> G3316
A medium and a mediator cannot be the same Being as you claim, not the applied meaning of the words.
An ambassador represents somebody else, yes, but is a different being. A mediator represents somebody else, yes, but is a different being.
D"YOU DEMAND THAT CHERUB IS THE ONLY ANGEL TYPE R" Why not? 91 verses mention cherub, the meaning of messenger is a being sent with a message. Must be a cherub. No other creature kind mentioned heaps and heaps in the torah, apart from man.
D"Not according to the Torah.com – cherub is a function R" Why do you consider the cherub is a function?
Eze 28:15 Thou (cherub reference) wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,
Messengers are not created are they, do you have a reference? One reference that the ruwach is created? Did you know this?
Ps 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth. No reference to the archons created is there? So this word is a function. Not a creature kind. Your Gnostic writings are leading you astray.
D"Wrong question and you know it – word man Search shedim – search Beelzebub – search Lilith – search any of the ancient religions of the 99% R" OH sorry, you are saying the archons in the OT are shedim, Beelzebub, Lilith. OK
OK so where did these shedim, Beelzebub, Lilith come from? Who are they? In the NT we know them as archons, rulers of darkness. Who are they and where do they come from? You use the Gnostic writings to explain where archon, shedim, Beelzebub, Lilith.
If one had to use the OT or NT only, ??you say the Roman edit changed the tanak to a different origin of these shedim, Beelzebub, Lilith, archons? Hmm?
The OT does not explain the origin of shedim, Beelzebub, Lilith, archon. The NT does not explain the origin of shedim, Beelzebub, Lilith, archon.
Would the Bible really leave this matter unresolved? You ignore the Ezekiel 28 chapter. You claim it's a Rome edit. Ezekiel wrote it years before Rome, just happens Jews did not consider these words did they? No commentaries on this cherub sinning is there in Jewish literature, why is that?
Perhaps the opposing cherub did not want the Jews to discuss him? Have you considered this?
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 19, 2021 17:41:17 GMT -5
D"God = Jesus = Holy Spirit = word = word = word = Trinity But – you deny the divinity of Christ – how sad R" so you believe there are three words?NOPE – only one true word / only One True GodHow can I deny the divinity of Jesus, if Jesus is divine Dave?You deny that Christ is the One True God – you say your christ is another godYou say that Jesus is the Father in a different expression. So you don't have a Father and a SON.E=mc2 – THERE IS ONLY ONE E not 3Messengers are not created are they, do you have a reference? One reference that the ruwach is created? Did you know this?Ps 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth. You only argue against your self – you say the HS cannot create in order to dent yhe ArchonD"Wrong question and you know it – word man Search shedim – search Beelzebub – search Lilith – search any of the ancient religions of the 99% R" OH sorry, you are saying the archons in the OT are shedim, Beelzebub, Lilith. OKYou are being an ass – I have always said this and you know itOK so where did these shedim, Beelzebub, Lilith come from? Who are they? You will have to reference ancient Jewish literature if you really want to know about ancient Jewish cultureThere are several scrolls by King Solomon – as for Jewish demonology – begin there Enoch is another source In the NT we know them as archons, rulers of darkness. Who are they and where do they come from?They just appeared – Rev 12:3 – stop denying scripture you say the Roman edit changed the tanak to a different origin of these shedim, Beelzebub, Lilith, archons? Hmm?You are being an ass – and you know itThe Roman edit hid the source of the origin from you – Rome says – do not read Kabbalah – you say – yes Rome Rome says – do not read any post Jesus document about the archon – you say yes Rome Not only has Rome taught you not do read – you are to despise it – abhor it You are a Good Roman follower – keep the faith – fallen angels and all The OT does not explain the origin of shedim, Beelzebub, Lilith, archon. The NT does not explain the origin of shedim, Beelzebub, Lilith, archon. So as a Roman – you are lost Would the Bible really leave this matter unresolved? NOPE – spelled it out plainly Rev 12 – you just refuse to see it because Rome doesn’t teach itYou claim it's a Rome edit. Ezekiel wrote it years before Rome, just happens Jews did not consider these words did they? No commentaries on this cherub sinning is there in Jewish literature, why is that?SDA Christiann Honesty - the Jews studied and disussed at lengeth every word of the ahl Ezk 28 Jewish Commentary specifically about cherub chatah posted on this forum by Rabbi Singer You said you watched it - you poted comments about itYou just don't like what the Jews say - Ezk 28 is about the King of Tyre, Adam, man, mankindEzekiel - Chapter 28 - Nach Yomi - OU Torahoutorah.org › ... When G-d returns the Jews to the land of Israel, they will dwell securely. G-d will punish those who have oppressed Israel and everyone will see that this came ... The Book of Ezekiel | My Jewish Learninghttps://www.myjewishlearning.com › article › ezekiel Pronounced: TALL-mud, Origin: Hebrew, the set of teachings and commentaries on the Torah that form the basis for Jewish law. Comprised of the Mishnah and the ... EZEKIEL, THE WORDSMITH, AND HIS PROPHECIES ...https://jbqnew.jewishbible.org › uncategorized › ezekiel-... 1 Another more plausible explanation has been proposed by Martin Corral. ... Finally, Ezekiel 28:11-19 begins with a dirge over the King of Tyre and ends ... The Jewish Study Bible - Commentary on Ezekiel - Oxford ...http://www.oxfordbiblicalstudies.com › Ezek › 28 Yes, you are wiser than Daniel: Ezekiel apparently holds the Tyrian king in ... the exiles will return to the land of Israel sworn to Jacob (Gen. chs 28; ... "Primal Figure" in Ezekiel 28:11-19 and "Genesis Rabbahhttps://www.jstor.org › stable by D Arbel · 2005 · Cited by 14 — Tradition to Commentary: Torah and Its Interpretation in the Midrash Sifre ... "Ezekiel 28: The Fall of Adam," in Literature on Adam Questions about Eve's Iniquity, Beauty, and Fall: The "Primal Figure" in Ezekiel 28:11-19 and "Genesis Rabbah" Traditions of Eve
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2021 4:37:21 GMT -5
D" E=mc2 – THERE IS ONLY ONE E not 3R" As much as I love your analogy it's not good. It says the Father is made of matter with C2? This is not correct. The formula relates matter to energy, if matter already exists. The formula does not show the origin of energy. Energy is the uncaused cause. Not made of matter. Matter only exists because energy (a personal being) decided to create matter from energy. My two pennies. D" You only argue against your self – you say the HS cannot create in order to deny the ArchonR" No Dave, I do not deny archons. I have a different origin of archons than you do. The HS cannot create on it's own, otherwise this is polytheism. Two gods. The HS funnels the creative power of the Father, as does the Son, hence ONE elohiym power, but three persons. There is a difference in this presentation. Not three gods of creative power, one creative power, the Father only. All three divine beings are creative, but only one creative power creates, its a community effort all the time. Again my humble two pennies, who am I to talk about the Great Uncaused Cause? Actually this is a Gnostic problem for you presenting polytheism to me, you have multiply gods creating, HS, Father and Yalboath, and you have the nerve to say you have one god creative power, I don't think so. D" There are several scrolls by King Solomon – as for Jewish demonology – begin there Enoch is another sourceR" Sorry I am not trying to be an ass. I am trying to strongly develop your theory into my mind. These source you quote are dubious at best, possibly not inspired. Can you present the origin of the shedim/archons for me from your best source, say King Solomon. Include a link so I can read King Solomon for inspiration. D" The Roman edit hid the source of the origin from you R" OK, I will buy this, present the King Solmon scroll as a inspired scroll to me, equal in inspiration to the scroll of Moses. What is your best link to the best translation, include both Hebrew and English for me. D" Ezk 28 Jewish Commentary specifically about cherub chatah posted on this forum by Rabbi Singer You said you watched it - you posted comments about itR" I did? Post the video link for me again please. I have a massive 20GB of data to watch Rabbi Singer all day if need be with an open mind. I am most happy to listen to him and make detailed comments. D "https://outorah.org/R" It's hard to read, please provide exact link inside this website on Ezekiel 28 please. D" Questions about Eve's Iniquity, Beauty, and Fall: The "Primal Figure" in Ezekiel 28:11-19 and "Genesis Rabbah" Traditions of EveR" You have my interest and devotion, provide links that work please. (1) link to Rabbi Singer video on Ezekiel 28 (2) Link to Ezekiel 28 inside the outorah.org/ website (3) ANy other Jewish link to studies on Ezekiel 28 (4) maybe comments from Maimonides on Ezekeil 28 (5) COmplete link to King Solomon on origin of Shedim/archon Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 20, 2021 4:55:51 GMT -5
D"God = Jesus = Holy Spirit = word = word = word = Trinity But – you deny the divinity of Christ – how sad R" so you believe there are three words?NOPE – only one true word / only One True GodHow can I deny the divinity of Jesus, if Jesus is divine Dave?You deny that Christ is the One True God – you say your christ is another godYou say that Jesus is the Father in a different expression. So you don't have a Father and a SON.E=mc2 – THERE IS ONLY ONE E not 3Messengers are not created are they, do you have a reference? One reference that the ruwach is created? Did you know this?Ps 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth. You only argue against your self – you say the HS cannot create in order to dent yhe ArchonD"Wrong question and you know it – word man Search shedim – search Beelzebub – search Lilith – search any of the ancient religions of the 99% R" OH sorry, you are saying the archons in the OT are shedim, Beelzebub, Lilith. OKYou are being an ass – I have always said this and you know itOK so where did these shedim, Beelzebub, Lilith come from? Who are they? You will have to reference ancient Jewish literature if you really want to know about ancient Jewish cultureThere are several scrolls by King Solomon – as for Jewish demonology – begin there Enoch is another source In the NT we know them as archons, rulers of darkness. Who are they and where do they come from?They just appeared – Rev 12:3 – stop denying scripture you say the Roman edit changed the tanak to a different origin of these shedim, Beelzebub, Lilith, archons? Hmm?You are being an ass – and you know itThe Roman edit hid the source of the origin from you – Rome says – do not read Kabbalah – you say – yes Rome Rome says – do not read any post Jesus document about the archon – you say yes Rome Not only has Rome taught you not do read – you are to despise it – abhor it You are a Good Roman follower – keep the faith – fallen angels and all The OT does not explain the origin of shedim, Beelzebub, Lilith, archon. The NT does not explain the origin of shedim, Beelzebub, Lilith, archon. So as a Roman – you are lost Would the Bible really leave this matter unresolved? NOPE – spelled it out plainly Rev 12 – you just refuse to see it because Rome doesn’t teach itYou claim it's a Rome edit. Ezekiel wrote it years before Rome, just happens Jews did not consider these words did they? No commentaries on this cherub sinning is there in Jewish literature, why is that?SDA Christiann Honesty - the Jews studied and disussed at lengeth every word of the ahl Ezk 28 Jewish Commentary specifically about cherub chatah posted on this forum by Rabbi Singer You said you watched it - you poted comments about itYou just don't like what the Jews say - Ezk 28 is about the King of Tyre, Adam, man, mankindEzekiel - Chapter 28 - Nach Yomi - OU Torahoutorah.org › ... When G-d returns the Jews to the land of Israel, they will dwell securely. G-d will punish those who have oppressed Israel and everyone will see that this came ... The Book of Ezekiel | My Jewish Learninghttps://www.myjewishlearning.com › article › ezekiel Pronounced: TALL-mud, Origin: Hebrew, the set of teachings and commentaries on the Torah that form the basis for Jewish law. Comprised of the Mishnah and the ... EZEKIEL, THE WORDSMITH, AND HIS PROPHECIES ...https://jbqnew.jewishbible.org › uncategorized › ezekiel-... 1 Another more plausible explanation has been proposed by Martin Corral. ... Finally, Ezekiel 28:11-19 begins with a dirge over the King of Tyre and ends ... The Jewish Study Bible - Commentary on Ezekiel - Oxford ...http://www.oxfordbiblicalstudies.com › Ezek › 28 Yes, you are wiser than Daniel: Ezekiel apparently holds the Tyrian king in ... the exiles will return to the land of Israel sworn to Jacob (Gen. chs 28; ... "Primal Figure" in Ezekiel 28:11-19 and "Genesis Rabbahhttps://www.jstor.org › stable by D Arbel · 2005 · Cited by 14 — Tradition to Commentary: Torah and Its Interpretation in the Midrash Sifre ... "Ezekiel 28: The Fall of Adam," in Literature on Adam Questions about Eve's Iniquity, Beauty, and Fall: The "Primal Figure" in Ezekiel 28:11-19 and "Genesis Rabbah" Traditions of Eve
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Post by Dave on Sept 20, 2021 5:21:28 GMT -5
D"E=mc2 – THERE IS ONLY ONE E not 3 R" As much as I love your analogy it's not good. It says the Father is made of matter with C2?Sure it does – when will you be serious? Is that possible?D"You only argue against your self – you say the HS cannot create in order to deny the ArchonR" No Dave, I do not deny archons. I have a different origin of archons than you do.D"You only argue against your self – you say the HS cannot create in order to deny the ArchonD"There are several scrolls by King Solomon – as for Jewish demonology – begin there Enoch is another source R" Sorry I am not trying to be an ass. I am trying to strongly develop your theory into my mind. These source you quote are dubious at best, possibly not inspired. The Roman edit hid the source of the origin from you – Rome says – do not read Kabbalah – you say – yes Rome Rome says – do not read any post Jesus document about the archon – you say yes Rome Not only has Rome taught you not do read – you are to despise it – abhor it Thank you for proving my point! CatholicCan you present the origin of the shedim/archons for me from your best source, say King Solomon. Include a link so I can read King Solomon for inspiration.Not only has Rome taught you not do read – you are to despise it – abhor itThank you for proving my point! CatholicWritings of King Solomonwww.britannica.com/topic/Wisdom-religionThe book of the Wisdom of Jesus the Son of SirachHave you ever heard of this King Solomon text? It is Roman Catholic Canon!…theological context, the concept of Wisdom (Ḥokhma), which was to have a primordial significance for Jewish thought, and presents it as the first and favourite of God’s creations. It is also praised, in the book of the Wisdom of Jesus the Son of Sirach (Ecclesiasticus), as instilled by God into… READ MORE Jerusalem: Western Wall, Temple MountIn Judaism: Sefer ha-bahir …survivals of gnostic speculation on Sophia (“Wisdom”), who is involved, sometimes to her misfortune, in the material world. This power is also the divine “Presence” (Shekhina) of rabbinical theology, though it is profoundly transformed: it has become a hypostasis. By a bold innovation, it is characterized as a feminine being… READ MORE Liberale da Verona: “Jesus Before the Gates of Jerusalem”In logos …power—and the Jewish view that Wisdom is the divine agent that draws humans to God and is identified with the word of God. The author of The Gospel According to John used this philosophical expression, which easily would be recognizable to readers in the Hellenistic (Greek cultural) world, to emphasize… READ MORE Wisdom of Solomon – also Roman Catholic Canon!In Wisdom of Solomon In the book, Wisdom is depicted as a feminine personification of an attribute of God; she is “a breath of the power of God, and a clear effluence of the glory of the Almighty.” (From this concept was developed the Logos theology of the Christian Church Fathers to… www.britannica.com/topic/Wisdom-of-SolomonWisdom of SolomonWisdom of Solomon, an example of the “wisdom” genre of religious literature, which commends a life of introspection and reflection on human existence, especially from an ethical perspective. It is an apocryphal work (noncanonical for Jews and Protestants) but is included in the Septuagint (Greek translation of the Old Testament) and was accepted into the Roman canon. In the book, Wisdom is depicted as a feminine personification of an attribute of God; she is “a breath of the power of God, and a clear effluence of the glory of the Almighty.” (From this concept was developed the Logos theology of the Christian Church Fathers to explain Jesus Christ’s relationship to God.) From the Kabbalah:The Key of Solomon The King The Lesser Key of Solomon D"The Roman edit hid the source of the origin from you R" OK, I will buy this, present the King Solmon scroll as a inspired scroll to me, equal in inspiration to the scroll of Moses. What is your best link to the best translation, include both Hebrew and English for me.Not only has Rome taught you not do read – you are to despise it – abhor it Thank you for proving my point! CatholicLinks already provided many times D"Ezk 28 Jewish Commentary specifically about cherub chatah posted on this forum by Rabbi Singer You said you watched it - you posted comments about it R" I did? Post the video link for me again please. ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/408/judaism-christianity-satan-rabbi-singerneed be with an open mind. I am most happy to listen to him and make detailed comments.Are you saying you didn’t have an open mind when you commented on it the fist time?This is an interesting thread Dave. So many differences with my own views. Where to begin? Much we have discussed before. So I pray to GOD and ask what makes us different? Jews have a concept of Ha-satan as a good angel doing a bad task of running negative aspects an attorney would do in the heavenly court. They also say the "yester ha ra" and the "Yester hara tov" is built into the body from Creation, as GOD created both TOV and RA. D"https://outorah.org/ R" It's hard to read, please provide exact link inside this website on Ezekiel 28 please.Step #1 Copy “Ezekiel - Chapter 28 - Nach Yomi - OU Torahoutorah.org” Step #2 Paste to you address bar Step #3 hit enter If that doesn't work Step #4 – open google search bar Step #5 search - Ezekiel - Chapter 28 - Nach Yomi - OU Torahoutorah.org Both ways the page opened for me – does the internet work differently in Australia?D"Questions about Eve's Iniquity, Beauty, and Fall: The "Primal Figure" in Ezekiel 28:11-19 and "Genesis Rabbah" Traditions of Eve R" You have my interest and devotion, provide links that work please.Already done - seriousness(1) link to Rabbi Singer video on Ezekiel 28Already done – long ago - seriousness(2) Link to Ezekiel 28 inside the outorah.org/ websiteAlready done (5) COmplete link to King Solomon on origin of Shedim/archon Already done – long ago – seriousnessYou even discussed it
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