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Post by Dave on Aug 19, 2021 10:31:44 GMT -5
D"Can you explain this to me – you treat Judaism or First Century Messianic Judaism as separate and different religions – from your SDA religion Why is that? R" I do ? examples please? 1- There is only One true God vrs a family of three or more lesser gods working together so love can exist 2- Hebrew satan is a god, a creator 3- Hebrew satan opposes the Creator 4- man has no soul/spirit 5- and I doubt there was a Jew anywhere who considered the 'other gods' of the Levant to be imaginaryD"Yes Robert ra exist – why do you call God’s creation flawed It is not a Jewish belief or a Messianic Christian belief R" so RA is not dysfunctional than? the opposite of functional? Please understand what Jeff Benner is saying. Tov and RA are opposite word meanings. Perfection to me means all functional. Tov is the movement towards God – Ra is the movement away from God Yes – entropy and negentropy are opposites – and together they form a balance within nature that unmistakably identifies The Intelligent Designer
D"My God is absolute and created everything for a purpose – Col 1:16 - even the powers and arhcon = for Him by Him I will never deny scripture I agree that the arche were created by GOD in the beginning. Scripture says so right hereNo you don’ t- please be honestYou teach that God made everything tov – and it was all tov for centuries – then your satan god changed all of God’s tov into ra You teach that a created being rose up and changed all of God’s Tov into ra – changed God’s Plan against God’s will You teach satan greater than God Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,Has absolutely nothing to do with the Beast of Revelations It is all about man – who was perfect until Rom 5:12You suggest these archon (rulers) are shedim and devils and demons are products of archons mating with humans forming demi-god like elohiym powers that oppose GOD, according to Gen 6.I know you cannot stop yourself from posting bull shit – but I beg for your honesty – do you have any?I say – the archon are shedim and demons are products of / offspring of the Beast of revelation The Nephilim of Gen 6 are the offspring of the shedim/archon and mortal women Greek Giants = children of Gia (Mother Earth) and gods = TITIANS The rephiem - the Sons of Anak - the 7 tribes of Amorite = the post-flood biological gene pool of the Nephilim = our 13 Families todayBut the Scripture has a different source of the opposing elohiym power, a cherub who sinned. I too will never deny scripture. But you ignore this verse, and other verses that build from this. 3 chapters in a row – 83 verses in a row – are all about the King of Tyre 23 + 49 scripture verse about your satan do no agree with your views You pick two words that do not fit the bulk of scripture Your two words vrs the bulk of scripture
D"Yes Robert there are two death – one of mortality thanks to Eve – and one of spirit at the Great White Throne judgment - that is up to you – your choice R" No Dave, you preach there are three deaths. One is the natural death of animals experiencing natural ra. So you are saying Adam might have naturally died due to his inherit ra? Than there is the loss of immmortality What happened when Adam sinned. Than there is the loss of existence, the second death in the Lake of Fire. I know you cannot stop yourself from posting bull shit – but I beg for your honesty – do you have any?Than there is the loss of immmortality What happened when Adam sinned. Therefore Adam dies due to his inherit ra? – is the same death + the death of spirit at the Lake of FireD"I do not consider God’s creation flawed – if there are ants at a picnic it is all part of God’s nature and the delicate balance that only reflect the intelligent designer – the One True Creator R" You do not consider ants crawling over your picnic dysfunctional? What happens to the crumbs? Do the crumbs just stay their forever? What about the scrap your vegetarians make when preparing vegetables for dinner. By now man would be living on top of miles deep waste and dead bodies. Every time you took a shit – it just remained – adding up – piling up
Your version of God’s tov world is a garbage dump Without decay – the cycle of life would stop! Your version of tovGod created a delicate balance – unmistakable as an Intelligent design Most Christians see this as so amazing – even the most stubborn atheist cannot denyOnly you deny God’s creation as perfectRomans 1:19 or Psa 19:2 all you can see is the result of your satanIt all denpens upon whom you give the praiseD"Fact – God test his people – I do not deny scripture as you choose you do R" Love in a sinless world never has to test the loving response. Don't you get that Dave? Scripture says God test his people – why do you deny scriptureGe 1:31 ¶ And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. Not a single mention of ra.Yep – and that included the commandment to be fruitful and multiply But you claim – that all creation had to wait centuries for Eve to sin – so they could obey God’s commandmentD"Fact – sometimes – those messengers that test us are invisible spirits (archon) R" They do not test us Dave, they tempt us to sin. You twist the positive meaning of the Hebrew, where its negative meaning is understood.Word play – game play - Deu 8:2 You are to remember all the way that Adonai your God has led you these 40 years in the wilderness—in order to humble you, to test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His mitzvot or not. Jas 1:13 ¶ Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: Correct he has a staff for that – as in Hebrew satan in the Book of Job As in Hebrew satan that forced David to take a census Or the archon of the agl Eph 6:12 - powers and principalities - all made by God for GodD" Fact – sometimes those – messengers that test us are just other men – at the command of men – who are manipulated by men – who are manipulated by the invisible archon R" so shedim possession, or demon possession is just mere manipulation by the invisible archon?Difference between possession and manipulationI know you cannot stop yourself from posting bull shit – but I beg for your honesty – do you have any?Was Eve possessed? Or was she just spoken too – sold a yarn – deceived by suggestive words?Rp" I do not get the idea of why a sinless GOD with sinless Adam and Eve, all with perfectly functional love, would require a creature to break free will, D" Fact – God test his people R" That is not answering my question Dave. Talk is cheap Robert – action speak louder than words Many men say – I’ll never cheat honey Many women say – I will love you forever Slapping your wife's face daily will not make her love you more deeply every day. Sure Dave, your view is flawed.I know you cannot stop yourself from posting bull shit – but I beg for your honesty – do you have any?D"I teach God is omniscient – of course God knew what choice Eve would make So why didn’t God prevent it – why did God allow it to happen Because it is God’s Will R" I thought Eve had free will, so how can GOD prevent it??? – why did God allow it to happen, Because it is God’s Will??Yep – God allowed Eve to sin – God did not prevent it even tho he knew it would happen If he didn’t allow Eve to sin – then Eve would have just been a robotIs it not God's will for love to respond freely...? without force or influence Dave?YES – thus the story of the Prodigal SonGod loves us so much – he lets us go - gave us Free Will and allowed us to choose world If we choose to love God freely without being forces we return as the Prodigal Son – and receive rewardDoes slapping a wife, make her respond to the husband out of love or out of fear?I know you cannot stop yourself from posting bull shit – but I beg for your honesty – do you have any?What does that have to do with the saga of the Prodigal Son?D"Psa 104:13 He waters mountains from His upper rooms. The earth is full of the fruit of Your labors. (Oops - Roberts call snow sin) R" You are quoting a world with RA in it already Dave, because adam sinned and God cursed the ground. Mountains did not exist in the perfect world of Eden, maybe hills did, but not jagged mountains. Neither did snow or rain.I see – your satan created them Sorry Robert there is only One True Creator Or you god is force to sin by your satan god – forcing god to make the raSorry Robert God is God – your satan is a pathetic shedim--------------------------------------------------- D" Let’s try your Robert method = In the GOVENOR God created the heavens and earth R" wow Dave, you are using the wrong Hebrew word. governor = shalliyt Gen 42:6 beginning = re'shiyth Gen 1:1 Gen 1:1 Ἐν ἀρχῇ Gen 42:6 Ιωσηφ δὲ ἦν ἄρχωνNope same ROOT word in GreekWhat are you presenting here Dave?Greek – no word games here – just presenting the Greek------------------------------------- I owe you an apology Dave for my electronic Bible software is rather poor in its making interlinear words for the Greek, and leaves out important Greek words. I am rather mad about this discovery and will have to rewrite entire webpages, plus abandon maybe even whole doctrinal themes, or at least change them. God inspired me to purchase this simple electronic software many years ago, but I see now it's not perfect enough to use for those seeking deeper levels of truth. I like the Power CD Bible software because it would seek Greek or Hebrew words and list all verses for you, but now I discovered this software does not do interlinear very well, rather poorly in fact. eSword – is free – every seminary I know of recommens it If you want the Hebrew Grammar section – The Word is free and the Hebrew grammar add on is $25I like eSword much better But you told me before you don’t think it worth it to invest in good Bible study tools Solar batteries are a better use of your moneyThink about it – especially when the software is FREE - STUDENT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2021 14:28:24 GMT -5
D" Yes – entropy and negentropy are opposites – and together they form a balance within nature that unmistakably identifies The Intelligent DesignerR I agree too, but only in our universe, since the curse of SIN, has this happened. D" You teach that a created being rose up and changed all of God’s Tov into ra – changed God’s Plan against God’s willR" so if you were a parent, as you are, and one of your daughters sinned against you in rebellion, would that not spoil you as a parent in some way, make some tears of you, cause you to feel too often of your loss, disrupt your mind daily, as your daughter wanders off the track? Sure SIN spoils, but SIN does not create. Only God creates. D" Has absolutely nothing to do with the Beast of Revelations It is all about man R" I don't get you, how can a cherub be an adam or iyish? D" 3 chapters in a row – 83 verses in a row – are all about the King of Tyre 23 + 49 scripture verse about your satan do no agree with your views You pick two words that do not fit the bulk of scriptureR" I see, so its OK to ignore scripture? De 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household, Here is a challenge for you, it says in one Scripture only that its OK to drink strong drink and rejoice while stone drunk ? While all other Scripture says strong drink is a mocker and a sin to the Lord? What do I say this verse is about? Not a clue? Seems to go against the other verses, but Dave I cannot reject the verse I do not like, I just do not have answers. D" 83 verses in a row – are all about the King of Tyre R" you think? King Tyre was in Eden, King Tyre is a cherub? D" 23 + 49 scripture verse about your satan do no agree with your viewsR" so not a suggestion of an opposer opposing God? Well you remove all NT references because you say Satanas is the only beast opposer, while Satan is some angel as a prosecutor I shall try with these verses:- Mt 4:1 ¶ Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. 2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred. 3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. Question was this tempter attacking the humanity of Jesus or the divinity of Jesus? Never heard of man changing rocks into bread, only divinity can do that. Mt 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. 7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Question was this tempter attacking the humanity of Jesus or the divinity of Jesus, afterall Scripture only about the divine looking after the humans? When you as a human pray to the divine, the divine answers. The context is about the divinity of Jesus, are you the SON of the DIVINE? Mt 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. 10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Question was this tempter attacking the humanity of Jesus or the divinity of Jesus? What is worship about? The human only or the divine only? Worship is about the divine, the gods we humans seek. The temptor is attacking the way humans worship the divine. Worship me, a creature devil instead. Here are three examples of some being attacking divinity directly, I feel. ----------------- D" What happens to the crumbs? Do the crumbs just stay their forever? What about the scrap your vegetarians make when preparing vegetables for dinner. By now man would be living on top of miles deep waste and dead bodies. Every time you took a shit – it just remained – adding up – piling upYour version of God’s tov world is a garbage dump Without decay – the cycle of life would stop! Your version of tovR" There would be no decomposers, when you eat all the food is soluble, including soluble cellulose. No waste is excreted. The crumb would stay there as living organic matter forever, without decaying. Some free living earth worm would seek to eat it. Weird I know, hard to imagine, but God is only all tov, functional. Rp" Love in a sinless world never has to test the loving response. Don't you get that Dave?D" Scripture says God test his people – why do you deny scriptureR" I get you for a SIN world Dave, but I said what about a SINLESS world? Please consider what about for a Utopian sinless world? D" Was Eve possessed? Or was she just spoken too – sold a yarn – deceived by suggestive words?R" correct sold by a yarn of deceptive words. D" If he didn’t allow Eve to sin – then Eve would have just been a robotR" correct, so when SIN came in, the SPOILING came in, too. Agree? So when your daughter rebels, let's say, does this not change your way of doing things in your home as the overall provider and creator of love in your home? The child sins, but the parent feels the sinning and spoiling of the home the most. Not the child only, but the parent does. So SIN can really impact you as a parent and your home you created from love. A broken relationship is hard on you, as a parent. I have experienced this first hand, several children of mine have nothing to do with me, and it hurts me daily to think I was not a proper parent to them, whatever that means. SIN does SPOIL even the parent, takes away their love of providing, removes things, causes tears and sadness in me the now dysfunctional parent because of my broken relationship. Sure GOD creates RA when SIN is around, does God want to normally? no. SIN is a big deal Dave, it hurts parents, and GOD is a parent too. We are his children. D" I see – your satan created themThe parent creates the RA Dave, reluctantly GOD groans and moans and let's go of His love, and so the SIN causes things to decay and spoil. Satan is no creator, only a spoiler who spoils, just as humans also spoil things of God's love. How many were saved by God in the exodus? 2 walked into paradise, the rest were sinners or spoilers of God's love. D" Gen 1:1 Ἐν ἀρχῇ Gen 42:6 Ιωσηφ δὲ ἦν ἄρχων
Nope same ROOT word in Greek What are you presenting here Dave? Greek – no word games here – just presenting the GreekR" wow. OK, I have a few things to relearn. Thanks Dave. D" I like eSword much betterR" Yes but it doesn't collect all verses with a Hebrew or Greek word does it? Only reason I use Phil Lindner rather than e-sword. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 19, 2021 15:31:48 GMT -5
D"Yes – entropy and negentropy are opposites – and together they form a balance within nature that unmistakably identifies The Intelligent Designer R I agree too, but only in our universe, since the curse of SIN, has this happened. D"You teach that a created being rose up and changed all of God’s Tov into ra – changed God’s Plan against God’s will And everything we see in a telescope or microscope is all evidence of your satan’s creations – not God’s
D"3 chapters in a row – 83 verses in a row – are all about the King of Tyre 23 + 49 scripture verse about your satan do no agree with your views You pick two words that do not fit the bulk of scripture R" I see, so its OK to ignore scripture? Not at all – but scripture must validate itself – you have had two years to prove your point The best you have is – if you oppose man then you automatically oppose God And you have Ellen White as proof
De 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
Here is a challenge for you, it says in one Scripture only that its OK to drink strong drink and rejoice while stone drunk ? While all other Scripture says strong drink is a mocker and a sin to the Lord?
What do I say this verse is about? Not a clue? Seems to go against the other verses, but Dave I cannot reject the verse I do not like, I just do not have answers.
Why don’t you understand this verse? Answer – because you only look at scripture one verse at a time – so you miss the larger message
Tithes Deu 14:22 You will surely set aside a tenth of all the yield of your seed that comes from the field year by year. Deu 14:23 You are to eat the tithe of your grain, your new wine, your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and flock, before Adonai your God in the place He chooses to make His Name dwell, so that you may learn to fear Adonai your God always. Deu 14:24 Now suppose the way is too long for you, for you cannot carry the tithe because the place Adonai your God chooses to set His Name is too far from you. When Adonai your God blesses you, Deu 14:25 then you are to exchange the tithe for silver, bind up the silver in your hand, and go to the place that Adonai your God chooses. Deu 14:26 You may spend the money for whatever your soul desires—cattle, sheep, wine, strong drink, or whatever your soul asks of you. Then you will eat there before Adonai your God and rejoice—you and your household. Deu 14:27 But you are not to neglect the Levite within your gates, for he has no portion or inheritance with you. Deu 14:28 At the end of every three years, you are to bring out all the tithe of your produce in that year and store it within your gates. Deu 14:29 Then the Levite, because he has no portion or inheritance with you, along with the outsider, the orphan and the widow within your gates, will come and eat and be satisfied, so that Adonai your God may bless you in all the work of your hand that you do.
If your tithe of goods is not much to carry to the temple – sell it – exchange it for money Then come to the Temple and buy the BEST in every category – including wine And share it with the whole community – feeding the poor – feeding the Priest
D"83 verses in a row – are all about the King of Tyre R" you think? King Tyre was in Eden, King Tyre is a cherub? Sure – as all men were
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Creation is over – God does not make a new man with each biological birth
D"23 + 49 scripture verse about your satan do not agree with your views R" so not a suggestion of an opposer opposing God? Your satan is always in opposition to man
Who can oppose God – NO ONE!
Mt 4:1-3 - Question was this tempter attacking the humanity of Jesus or the divinity of Jesus? Never heard of man changing rocks into bread, only divinity can do that. Mt4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. YEP only the humanity of the Son of Man Jesus
Question was this tempter attacking the humanity of Jesus or the divinity of Jesus Mt4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. YEP only the humanity of the Son of Man Jesus
Mt 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
Question was this tempter attacking the humanity of Jesus or the divinity of Jesus? What is worship about? The human only or the divine only? What is it that your satan has to offer - all the kingdoms of the world – only WORLD
D" I like eSword much better R" Yes but it doesn't collect all verses with a Hebrew or Greek word does it? Only reason I use Phil Lindner rather than e-sword.
I have no idea what you are even talking about I can pull up every verse with any strong’s number I can look up any verse by the original Greek or Hebrew word I can look ever verse by any English word And I can do it in about 70 different translations
You have no idea what you’re talking about – you just want to resist and object
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2021 16:02:10 GMT -5
Dave says " Who can oppose God – NO ONE!"Does Sin oppose GOD? www.gotquestions.org/sin-against-God.htmlSin often harms another person, but, ultimately, all sin is against God. The Bible contains many references to people admitting, "I have sinned against God" (Exodus 10:16; Joshua 7:20; Judges 10:10). Genesis 39:9 gives us a closer look at this. Joseph was being tempted to commit adultery with Potiphar’s wife. In resisting her, he said, "My master has withheld nothing from me except you, because you are his wife. How then could I do such a wicked thing and sin against God?" It is interesting that Joseph did not say that his sin would be against Potiphar. This isn’t to say that Potiphar would be unaffected. But Joseph’s greater loyalty was to God and His laws. It was God he did not want to offend. David said something similar after he had sinned with Bathsheba (2 Samuel 11). When confronted with his sin, David repented in great sorrow, saying to God, " Against You and You only have I sinned" (Psalm 51:4). He had clearly sinned against Bathsheba and her husband, too, but it was the violation of God’s law that grieved David the most. God hates sin because it is the antithesis of His nature and because it harms us or someone else. By sinning against God, David had also hurt other people. When someone commits a crime, the person who was harmed by the crime is not the one who punishes the criminal. Only the state can legally mete out punishment. It is the law that judges a person guilty or innocent, not the victim. It is the law that was violated. Regardless of the worthiness or innocence of the victim, all crimes are ultimately committed against the established law. If you rob your neighbor’s house, you have obviously wronged your neighbor, but it is not he who holds you accountable. It is the higher law you have violated. The state bears the responsibility to convict and punish you; your neighbor, although affected by your crime, defers to the state. In the same way, a ll moral law begins with God. Because we were created in the image of God, we have His moral law written within our hearts (Genesis 1:27). When Adam and Eve ate from the forbidden tree in the Garden of Eden, God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil” (Genesis 3:22). At that time, no written law had been given, as far as we know. Yet God had clearly communicated His will to Adam and Eve, and they knew that they had sinned and ran to hide from God (Genesis 3:10). Their shame after sinning was intuitive. We also know intuitively when we have sinned. Sin is a perversion of God’s perfect design. We all bear the very image of God Himself, and when we sin, we mar that likeness. We were created to be mirrors of the glory of God (Ephesians 2:10; 4:24; Hebrews 2:7). Sin is a big smudge on the mirror, and it diminishes the beauty and holiness we were designed to reflect. When we sin, we step outside the purpose for which we were created, thus violating God’s moral law, and we are accountable to Him for the trespass. Romans 3:23 says, "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Sin is anything that falls short of God’s plan. So, whether it harms us or someone else, every sin is ultimately against a holy God. Does a sinner oppose GOD? www.gotquestions.org/enemy-of-God.htmlAn enemy is one who dislikes or hates another and seeks to harm, contradict, and fight the one he is set against. Thus, an enemy of God is one who opposes the presence and purposes of God in this world.The Bible identifies Satan, the devil, as the specific enemy of God (1 Timothy 5:14–15). Throughout history, as God’s enemy, Satan has sought to thwart God’s plan, harm humans, and lead them away from God. R" Rob uses Bible CD software to collect all verses that use "antikeimai" (eSword can't do this) 1Ti 5:14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary "antikeimai" to speak reproachfully. {to speak...: Gr. for their railing} (KJV Lu 13:17 And when he had said these things, all his adversaries "antikeimai" were ashamed: and all the people rejoiced for all the glorious things that were done by him. Lu 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries "antikeimai" shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. 1Co 16:9 For a great door and effectual is opened unto me, and there are many adversaries "antikeimai" . Ga 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary "antikeimai" the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. Php 1:28 And in nothing terrified by your adversaries "antikeimai" : which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God. 2Th 2:4 Who opposeth "antikeimai" and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary "antikeimai" to sound doctrine; R" One reason why I like Power CD Bible software, it collects all the verses with the Greek "antikeimai" . Notice two really stand out, showing that "antikeimai" opposes GOD directly. 2Th 2:4 is anyone "antikeimai" opposes GOD directly. List all things opposing GOD directly:- 1Ti 1:10 Anybody who opposes God's laws and commands, opposes GOD directly. 2Th 2:4 Anybody who is "antikeimai" opposes GOD directly. Ga 5:17 Our fallen corrupted flesh opposes GOD directly. 1Co 16:9 There are many opposing GOD 1Ti 5:14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully. 15 For some are already turned aside after Satanas. Satanas is listed here in the next verse as a creature of matter opposing GOD directly. There are 33 verses that use Satanas. Besides Satan, Scripture names many other enemies of God and His people. Other words used for an enemy of God in the Bible are adversary and foe. Any person who disobeys the Lord’s commands is declared to be God’s enemy. Sin sets us against God: “Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior” (Colossians 1:21). The apostle Paul referred to unsaved sinners as enemies of God: “For since our friendship with God was restored by the death of his Son while we were still his enemies, we will certainly be saved through the life of his Son” (Romans 5:10, NLT). All through Israel’s history, the people of God contended with enemies committed to their destruction. The Egyptians, the Canaanites, the Philistines, and the Babylonians are just a few of the many cruel and oppressive enemy nations featured in the Old Testament. Those nations, in opposing God’s people, were counted God’s enemies, and God fought on Israel’s behalf (see 2 Kings 19). Throughout His life, Jesus Christ was opposed by human and spiritual enemies as foretold in Genesis 3:15. Herod the Great tried but failed to have the infant Jesus killed (Matthew 2:13, 16–20). Satan tempted Christ in the wilderness (Mark 1:12–13). At times Satan opposed the Lord through His friends and followers (Matthew 16:22–23; 26:14–16; Luke 22:3; John 13:21–27). As predicted in Old Testament Scripture (Psalm 2:2; Isaiah 53:3), the Jewish leaders plotted to kill Jesus (Matthew 12:14; 27:1; Mark 3:6; John 5:18; 7:1, 19; 11:53). Christ’s enemies succeeded in executing Him (Matthew 27:22; Acts 2:23) but were unsuccessful in thwarting God’s plan. Jesus overcame every enemy, including death, so that His followers might be set free by His victory (Matthew 22:44; Philippians 2:9–11). Jesus Christ made it clear that Christians would face many enemies because of their faith in Him: “In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted” (2 Timothy 3:12; see also John 15:18–19; 17:14). Christ also provided an example for Christians to follow whenever they face enemies of God and their threats: “To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps. ‘He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth.’ When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. ‘He himself bore our sins’ in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; ‘by his wounds you have been healed’” (1 Peter 2:21–24). The Bible instructs believers to be cautious yet courageous when dealing with the enemies of God: “Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour” (1 Peter 5:8, ESV). The enemies of God are fighting a losing battle: “Surely your enemies, Lord, surely your enemies will perish; all evildoers will be scattered” (Psalm 92:9). The final enemy of God to be eradicated is death: “For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death” (1 Corinthians 15:25–26; see also 2 Timothy 1:10; Revelation 21:4). Rob replies" Sin from a sinner, opposes GOD, and makes GOD do things as well. What things? Ge 3:9 ¶ And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? GOD cries when man sins. Ge 3:11 ¶ And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? GOD immediately shrank about Adam and Eve, exposing their nakedness, so sin immediately affected GOD too. Ge 3:17 ¶ And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground GOD completely changes the creation because the GROUND is cursed. Some affects of the spoiling of GOD's creation, as GOD relaxes His powers beginning from the ground: Ge 3:18 Thorns also and thistles Ge 3:19 In the sweat of thy face Ge 3:16 ¶ Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; Ge 3:14 ¶ And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art CURSED Dave you seem to think SIN does not oppose GOD, or change the way GOD reacts to SIN? D" You teach that a created being rose up and changed all of God’s Tov into ra – changed God’s Plan against God’s willR" I do not. God changed his powers flowing through nature when Adam sinned, when GOD cursed the ground.God reclothed Adam and Eve with the death of animals to make sacrifical covering for sin. God cursed each creature of matter for their specific sins, (1) the serpent sinner (2) Eve sinner and (3) Adam sinner God created the RA because these creatures of matter sinned. SIN is against GOD's will, God hates SIN, but loves all creatures of matter. D" And everything we see in a telescope or microscope is all evidence of your satan’s creations – not God’sR" You say some ridiculous statements Dave. A spoiler spoiling creation cannot create, so stop using the word create in reference to my idea of the great Opposer of God. God is the overall creator of all things, except SINNING. God does not author sinning, only the creatures of matter do, by choosing or asking GOD to go away and move away from them, so these RA things can come into existence. Such RA things are not allowed normally to exist, just as darkness is not allowed normally to exist. The only way darkness exists is when light is told to go way and not come near. Who tells GOD as light to go away and not come near? The opposer does. The sinner does. Get my view ? R" I see, so its OK to ignore scripture?D" Not at all – but scripture must validate itself – you have had two years to prove your point The best you have is – if you oppose man then you automatically oppose GodR" You are strong opponent Dave over my feeble wisdom of things, so GOD is slowly, daily empowering me to learn the Scriptures more. This post includes better, stronger points:- List all things opposing GOD directly:- 1Ti 1:10 Anybody who opposes God's laws and commands, opposes GOD directly. 2Th 2:4 Anybody who is "antikeimai" opposes GOD directly. Ga 5:17 Our fallen corrupted flesh opposes GOD directly. 1Co 16:9 There are many opposing GOD There are 33 verses using Satanas who oppose GOD directly. ------------------------------------- R" you think? King Tyre was in Eden, King Tyre is a cherub? Sure – as all men wereGen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Creation is over – God does not make a new man with each biological birthR" so brief, so curtly so lacking details, so as to confuse the reader? Care to explain Dave? And explain to me how you are in Eden physically as well as spiritually? Also explain to me how you are a cherub in Eden also? D"Creation is over – R" you mean the "bara" is over, but what about to "form" yalad, to give birth, procreate? yada? D" Your satan is always in opposition to manR" Dave any creature of matter that sins or does RA, is opposing GOD directly. Mt 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satanas: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve Here a creature of matter opposes GOD directly by asking Jesus to worship it. This means break the commands. Mt 12:26 And if Satanas cast out Satanas, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? 27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. R" You argue Satanas is related to Beelzebub , and this is NOT Satan, the hey-satan in the OT? Lu 10:18 Satanas fell from heaven Lu 22:3 Satanas entered Judas, possessing his mind to betray Jesus Lu 22:31 Satanas also tries to possess the mind of Peter Ac 5:3 Satanas also causes humans to lie against the HS of GOD Ac 26:18 Satanas is the grand power of darkness from which humans come out of into salvation light Ro 16:20 Arhh a cross reference to the OT, Satanas was cursed when Adam sinned. You are wrong Dave:Ro 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen. Ge 3:15; Ge 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Is not GOD calling "thee" Satanas, here? Bruise under your feet, coming from Gen 3:15 Thus Satanas is the serpent in the garden. 1Co 5:5 Satanas destroyed our flesh, making it corrupt. 1Co 7:5 Satanas tempts you to sin 2Co 11:14 Satanas is a creature of marvelous light, so suggests was also a cherub who are also creatures of marvellous light. 1Th 2:18 Satanas hinders the evangelism work of Paul 2Th 2:9 Satanas does lying wonders and deceptions Re 2:9 Satanas has his own churches and false religions Re 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. All these names are also Satanas, marvellous light, tells us these messengers are in fallen angels. -------------------------------------------- I have no idea what you are even talking about I can pull up every verse with any strong’s number I can look up any verse by the original Greek or Hebrew word I can look ever verse by any English word And I can do it in about 70 different translations
You have no idea what you’re talking about – you just want to resist and objectTry looking at this image and ask yourself is eSword able do this? I can click on the interlinear Greek word, look up all verses of the Greek word, collect all the verses of that Greek word and add or remove the interlinear, copy and paste all verses with that word in it. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 20, 2021 20:51:36 GMT -5
Dave says "Who can oppose God – NO ONE!"I don't say it scripture does - I'll stick with scriptureJob 23:13 He is unchangeable, and who can change Him? Whatever His soul desires, He does. Does Sin oppose GOD? www.gotquestions.org/sin-against-God.htmlSin often harms another person, but, ultimately, all sin is against God. The Bible contains many references to people admitting, "I have sinned against God" (Exodus 10:16; Joshua 7:20; Judges 10:10). YES – regardless of man’s ideas – or man’s rule It was God Law that David trespassed - - it was clearly written for David Thou shall not covet, committee adultery, or murder – Oops David transgressed all 3Genesis 39:9 gives us a closer look at this. Joseph was being tempted to commit adultery with Potiphar’s wife. In resisting her, he said, "My master has withheld nothing from me except you, because you are his wife. How then could I do such a wicked thing and sin against God?" .It is interesting that Joseph did not say that his sin would be against Potiphar. This isn’t to say that Potiphar would be unaffected. But Joseph’s greater loyalty was to God and His laws. It was God he did not want to offend. YES – Abraham knew the Torah – long before the Torah was written
Gen 26:5 because Abraham listened to My voice and kept My charge, My mitzvot, My decrees, and My instructions.” David said something similar after he had sinned with Bathsheba (2 Samuel 11). When confronted with his sin, David repented in great sorrow, saying to God, "Against You and You only have I sinned" (Psalm 51:4). He had clearly sinned against Bathsheba and her husband, too, but it was the violation of God’s law that grieved David the most.What law by Bathsheba did David transgress? What law of Uriah did David transgress? David cause ra – did ra – to other men – the SIN = transgressing God’s law David understood – don’t you?God hates sin because it is the antithesis of His nature and because it harms us or someone else. By sinning against God, David had also hurt other people.1- Your Feel Good God of Tov Only = hates Your statement contradicts your own theology2- Yes God is disappoint when we choose world over Him But as you said – TRUE LOVE comes with that RISK 3- and God is overjoyed when we return to Him as a Prodigal Son – of our own Free WillWhen someone commits a crime, the person who was harmed by the crime is not the one who punishes the criminal. Only the state can legally mete out punishment. Who cares about the state in this WORLD Give Caesar his due – Do the things you have to do – to live the mortal life you choose(Genesis 3:22). At that time, no written law had been given, as far as we know. Yet God had clearly communicated His will to Adam and Eve, and they knew that they had sinned and ran to hide from God (Genesis 3:10). Their shame after sinning was intuitive. The law given was – Gen 2:17 do not eat it And the real Law – the real commandment = love one another as he has loved us! He loves us enough to let us go = can’t force belief and sometimes you have to let people go their way We cannot save everyone – we can only witness And we the love the fellowship you can only experience as believers
We also know intuitively when we have sinned. Sin is a perversion of God’s perfect design. Sin = transgressing God Commandment / or disobeying God God’s design = perfect – as He Plans as he Wills Your satan is not a recreator or a creator and he cannot force God to do anything against God’s Will There is only One True God who is AbsoluteJob 23:13 He is unchangeable, and who can change Him? Whatever His soul desires, He does. We all bear the very image of God Himself, and when we sin, we mar that likeness. We were created to be mirrors of the glory of God (Ephesians 2:10; 4:24; Hebrews 2:7). Sin is a big smudge on the mirror, and it diminishes the beauty and holiness we were designed to reflect. When we sin, we step outside the purpose for which we were created, thus violating God’s moral law, and we are accountable to Him for the trespass. Romans 3:23 says, "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Sin is anything that falls short of God’s plan. So, whether it harms us or someone else, every sin is ultimately against a holy God. If God loves you so much to let you go – why is it a sin? Is there a commandment or an order to stay? – NO There is the Love of God that lets you go – who gave you Free Will It is the Grace of God that loves you anyway even tho you choose world And God is overjoyed and rewards thos that return as the Prodigal Son Who come back to the father by his own choice (Free Will)
Does a sinner oppose GOD? www.gotquestions.org/enemy-of-God.htmlAn enemy is one who dislikes or hates another and seeks to harm, contradict, and fight the one he is set against. Thus, an enemy of God is one who opposes the presence and purposes of God in this world. This is opposing God’s Plan on earth – opposing man – keeping man sidetracked so man has no time for the HS
The Bible identifies Satan, the devil, as the specific enemy of God (1 Timothy 5:14–15). Throughout history, as God’s enemy, Satan has sought to thwart God’s plan, harm humans, and lead them away from God. Job 23:13 He is unchangeable, and who can change Him? Whatever His soul desires, He does.R" Rob uses Bible CD software to collect all verses that use "antikeimai" (eSword can't do this) eSword - You have no idea what you’re talking about – you just want to resist and objectTry looking at this image and ask yourself is eSword able do this?eSword word search “G480” in the KJV+ with the TLV in the background The Bible identifies Satan, the devil, as the specific enemy of God (1 Timothy 5:14–15).Where does it? - give no opportunity to the enemy for slander - the younger widows So to you – old women gossiping in the town square about an unmarried woman = satan1Ti 5:14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary "antikeimai" to speak reproachfully. {to speak...: Gr. for their railing} (KJV G480 - ἀντίκειμαι - From G473 and G2749; to lie opposite, that is, be adverse (figuratively repugnant) to: - adversary, be contrary, oppose. Lu 13:17 And when he had said these things, all his adversaries "antikeimai" were ashamed: and all the people rejoiced for all the glorious things that were done by him. Luk 13:11 And behold, there was a woman with a disabling spirit for eighteen years, bent over and completely unable to stand up straight. Luk 13:12 When Yeshua saw her, He called out to her and said, “Woman, you are set free from your disability.” Luk 13:13 Then He laid hands on her, and instantly she stood up straight and began praising God. Luk 13:14 But the synagogue leader, indignant that Yeshua had healed on Shabbat, started telling the crowd, “There are six days in which work should be done—so come to be healed on those days and not on Yom Shabbat!” Luk 13:15 But the Lord answered him and said, “Hypocrites! On Shabbat doesn’t each of you untie his ox or donkey from the stall and lead it away to give it drink? Luk 13:16 So this one, a daughter of Abraham incapacitated by satan for eighteen years, shouldn’t she be set free from this imprisonment on Yom Shabbat?” Luk 13:17 When Yeshua said these things, all His opponents were put to shame; but the whole crowd was rejoicing at all the glorious things done by Him. The opposers were other men opposing Jesus the Son of man for working on the SabbathLu 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries "antikeimai" shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. Jesus Foretells Wars and Persecution Other men opposing the men of God1Co 16:9 For a great door and effectual is opened unto me, and there are many adversaries "antikeimai" Many - Cold, heat, hunger, the desire to reproduce, greed, envy, lust = (yester ra) / WORLD And our real enemy = Eph 6:12 – powers and archon. Ga 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary "antikeimai" the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. YES – Paul Romans chapter 7 - miserable man that I am The inner struggle between (yester ra) and (yester tov)Php 1:28 And in nothing terrified by your adversaries "antikeimai" : which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God. Php 1:28 and not being frightened in any way by your opponents. For them this is a sign of destruction, but for you salvation—and that from God. YES – Psa 23:4 Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for You are with me: Your rod and Your staff comfort me. Jas 1:2 Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, Jas 1:3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. 2Th 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way, for the Day will not come unless the rebellion comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the one destined to be destroyed. 2Th 2:4 He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits in the Temple of God, proclaiming himself that he is God. The anti-Christ – the man – the eventual leader of the coming one world religion 1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary "antikeimai" to sound doctrine; Men - that defile themselves with mankindany other thing that is contrary "antikeimai" to sound doctrineWhat is sound doctrine – Love one another as He loved us – witness and save soulsR" One reason why I like Power CD Bible software, it collects all the verses with the Greek "antikeimai" Notice two really stand out, showing that "antikeimai" opposes GOD directly.Job 23:13 He is unchangeable, and who can change Him? Whatever His soul desires, He does. Want to see the word within the LXX - for a hebrew wprd comparrison?2Th 2:4 is anyone "antikeimai" opposes GOD directly. Is about a man called the anti-Christ that will preach WORLD (anything but the Gospel) List all things opposing GOD directly:-Job 23:13 He is unchangeable, and who can change Him? Whatever His soul desires, He does. 1Ti 1:10 Anybody who opposes God's laws and commands, opposes GOD directly. 1Ti 1:6 Some, having missed the mark, have turned away to fruitless discussion— 1Ti 1:7 wanting to be teachers of Torah, even though they do not understand what they keep saying or what they so dogmatically assert. 1Ti 1:8 But we know that the Torah is good if one uses it legitimately, 1Ti 1:9 knowing that the Torah is not given for a tzaddik but for the lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinful, for the unholy and worldly, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 1Ti 1:10 the sexually immoral, homosexuals, slave-traders, liars, perjurers, and for anything else that opposes sound teaching— Again – opposing sound teaching from one man to another Teaching the precepts of man instead of the word of GodSatanas is listed here in the next verse as a creature of matter opposing GOD directly.There are 33 verses that use Satanas. And satanas is of Chaldean origin and is off the family archon – The Beast, the devil, and the serpent race Al of them = archon of the Beast oppose man – to keep man sidetracked with WORLD so man has no time for the HSChrist’s enemies succeeded in executing Him (Matthew 27:22; Acts 2:23) but were unsuccessful in thwarting God’s plan. Jesus overcame every enemy, including death, so that His followers might be set free by His victory (Matthew 22:44; Philippians 2:9–11). So you teach that it was satan that caused Jesus Christ to die You teach that if it were not for your satan – the age of the gentile would have never happened You teach – that your satan can kill Jesus Christ against God’s Will or God’s Plan
Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. Luk 22:41 And He pulled back about a stone’s throw from them, got on His knees, and began to pray, Luk 22:42 saying, “Father, if You are willing, take this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.” God’s Will be done!Mat 6:10 Your kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. God’s Will be done!Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost. Jesus the Son of man – Gave up the ghost (spirit) Christ – and Christ returned to heaven No satanic power killed Christ as you once claimed Only the Mortal Son of man died – and went into the tomb Christ returned – resurrected – in a changed body Rob replies" Sin from a sinner, opposes GOD, and makes GOD do things as well. No one – no power forces God to do anything – You teach that God is forced to respond to your powerful satan God weak – satan strong
GOD immediately shrank about Adam and Eve, exposing their nakedness, so sin immediately affected GOD too. NO - did not affect their nakedness – their eyes were open to the truth – tree of knoeledge
Ge 3:17 ¶ And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground GOD completely changes the creation because the GROUND is cursed.YES – now man has to work hard for our supper – Gen 3:15 Ge 3:19 In the sweat of thy faceMan vrs WORLDGe 3:18 Thorns also and thistles Creation is closed – the thorns and thistles are all a part of God’s glorious creation In the desert – thorns and thistles are called beautiful wild flowers – praise God But because of gen 3:15 – now they love to grow in the gardenMan vrs WORLDGe 3:16 ¶ Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; Ge 3:14 ¶ And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art CURSED Dave you seem to think SIN does not oppose GOD, or change the way GOD reacts to SIN?Robert you teach that God cannot tell the future You teach God tried to create something tov – but could not You teach that a created being is strong enough to change God’s creation – against God’s Will and God’s Plan You teach God is weak – and satan strongD"And everything we see in a telescope or microscope is all evidence of your satan’s creations – not God’s R" You say some ridiculous statements Dave. A spoiler spoiling creation cannot create, so stop using the word create in reference to my idea of the great Opposer of God. OH OK – you satan did not created –I agree You teach that he is strong enough to force God to change God’s Plan against God’s WillList all things opposing GOD directly:-Job 23:13 He is unchangeable, and who can change Him? Whatever His soul desires, He does. 1Ti 1:10 Anybody who opposes God's laws and commands, opposes GOD directly. Men - that defile themselves with mankindany other thing that is contrary "antikeimai" to sound doctrine What is sound doctrine – Love one another as He loved us – witness and save souls2Th 2:4 Anybody who is "antikeimai" opposes GOD directly. The anti-Christ – the man – the eventual leader of the coming one world religionGa 5:17 Our fallen corrupted flesh opposes GOD directly. YES – Paul Romans chapter 7 - miserable man that I am The inner struggle between (yester ra) and (yester tov)1Co 16:9 There are many opposing GOD Satanas is listed here in the next verse as a creature of matter opposing GOD directly. There are 33 verses that use Satanas. And satanas is of Chaldean origin and is off the family archon – The Beast, the devil, and the serpent race Al the the archon of the Beast oppose man – to keep man sidetracked with WORLD so man has no time for the HS
There are 33 verses using Satanas who oppose GOD directly. G4567 = 36 matches in 33 verses in each verse satanas is opposing man
------------------------------------- R" you think? King Tyre was in Eden, King Tyre is a cherub? Sure – as all men were Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. Creation is over – God does not make a new man with each biological birth R" so brief, so curtly so lacking details, so as to confuse the reader? Care to explain Dave?1- creation is over – no new spiritual creatures created – the Host of heavens – all that is in them = finished 2- man = a full part of the host of heaven – we are all there – watching from the heavensD"Creation is over – R" you mean the "bara" is over, but what about to "form" yalad, to give birth, procreate? yada?Correct creation is over – all is left is biological procreationJoh 3:6 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. Mt 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satanas: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve Here a creature of matter opposes GOD directly by asking Jesus to worship it. This means break the commands.As I read it – Jesus Christ said No thank you – Mat 4:10 Then Yeshua says to him, “Go away, satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship Adonai your God, and Him only shall you serve.’” Mat 4:11 Then the devil leaves Him. And behold, angels came and began to take care of Him. And the devil leaves HimR" You argue Satanas is related to Beelzebub , and this is NOT Satan, the hey-satan in the OT?Correct – Greek satanas – is not Hebrew satanLu 10:18 Satanas fell from heaven YEP – REV 12:7 – your verseLu 22:3 Satanas entered Judas, possessing his mind to betray Jesus YEP – 30 pieces of silver and the promise of clemency – lust, greed, and self-preservationLu 22:31 Satanas also tries to possess the mind of Peter NO – the WORLD – (yester ra) – why did Peter deny Christ = Self-Preservation = (Yester ra)Ac 5:3 Satanas also causes humans to lie against the HS of GOD YEP _ satanas opposes humans – correctAc 26:18 Satanas is the grand power of darkness from which humans come out of into salvation light YEP _ Eph 6:12 – the powers and archon Ro 16:20 Arhh a cross reference to the OT, Satanas was cursed when Adam sinned. Cross reference to Gen 3:15 – the serpent race – of the Beast Rom 16:20 Now the God of shalom will soon crush satan under your feet. May the grace of our Lord Yeshua be with you. You are wrong Dave: Is not GOD calling "thee" Satanas, here? Bruise under your feet, coming from Gen 3:15 Thus Satanas is the serpent in the garden.YES – Absolutely Correct – and I have said this all along – the serpent race = archon – satanas YES – the satans’s seed of gen 3:15 = the offspring of Chaldean satanas, of family Beast = all archon1Co 5:5 Satanas destroyed our flesh, making it corrupt. YES - Paul Romans chapter 7 – miserable man that I am (yester tov) vrs (yester ra) the inner struggle
1Co 7:5 Satanas tempts you to sin Fact – God test His people Fact – Gen 3:15 the WORLD and satan’s seed test God’s people Jas 1:12 Happy is the one who endures testing, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life, which the Lord promised to those who love Him. Jas 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”—for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He himself tempts no one. YES – He has a staff for thatJas 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is dragged away and enticed by his own desire. Jas 1:15 Then when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is full grown, it brings forth death. Desire = (yester ra) lust, covertness, greed = SELF = (yester ra)2Co 11:14 Satanas is a creature of marvelous light, so suggests was also a cherub who are also creatures of marvellous light. Absolutely – there is zero evidence that the Beast = stupid Gen 3:1 But the serpent was shrewder than any animal of the field that Adonai Elohim made.1Th 2:18 Satanas hinders the evangelism work of Paul YES – WORLD getting in the way of the Gospel 1 Cor 11:13-33 Paul writes – do not be a gluttonous pig or a drunkard at communion2Th 2:9 Satanas does lying wonders and deceptions Absolutely – there is zero evidence that the Beast = stupid Gen 3:1 But the serpent was shrewder than any animal of the field that Adonai Elohim made.Re 2:9 Satanas has his own churches and false religions ABSOLUTELYSome churches preach Jehovah was once a man on earth who became a god Some churches preach that Christ already came – and this is all the heaven we will ever get Some church dance with venomous snakes to test their faith Some churches preach that you must put to death anyone to will not bow to the Pope Some churches preach God has no son Some churches preach that the virgin birth or biological resurrection = medially impossible And some churches preach – God is weak – tried to create something Tov – but couldn’t And a created being is so powerful that he can force God to do things against God’s Will / God’s PlanDon’t forget Hinduism or Islam – or etc – etc Don’t forget the new religion replacing Christianity – aliens made us and will return to help usRe 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. All these names are also Satanas, marvellous light, tells us these messengers are in fallen angels.No you are just making the Lucifer assumptionJust means the Beast and his army can be excellent deceivers and trickstersAllah – The Greatest Deceiver of them All64.71.77.248 › answering_islam › shamoun › all... The Quran describes Allah as the best deceiver there is, a liar who is not above using the same evil and wicked schemes of his opponents. Allah, the Best Deceiver (Qur'an 3:54) - WikiIslamhttps://wikiislam.net › wiki › Allah,_the_Best_Deceiver... Jun 6, 2021 — The Qur'an openly states many times that Allah is the 'best deceiver'. The Arabic word used here is "ماكر" "maakir", coming from the root ... Qur'an · Inaccurate Translations · Islamic Views on the Translation of Makir Why does Quran say 'Allah is the best deceiver'? - Quorahttps://www.quora.com › Why-does-Quran-say-Allah-is-t... Aug 13, 2017 — Allah is the Great Deceiver (Qur'an 3:54) : Allah promises paradise in exchange for obedience – and God has no SonRe 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. All these names are also Satanas, marvellous light, tells us these messengers are: - Other gods – pseudo-gods, non-God gods, sometimes other men, sometimes it is nature at the control of the archon / shedim
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2021 4:02:14 GMT -5
Greetings You could have saved me 1000 posts if you told me that (1) the serpent is Satanas, the Greek term for the chief archon, GOD created to tempt humans to be tricked into sinning in the world of these archons, rather than to Love God fully. Also known as shedim, devils and demons, with messengers who work for him in deceiving the world of humans.
(2) Satan is a volunteer angel who in Job, is a prosecutor. Going a dirty job for the Lord. Only once verse about him in the NT. Question: 1 Kings 22 the lying spirit, is NOT identified, so you cannot use the verse even, not proven to be an angel, or Satanas, or even Satan, just a MEDIUM (spirit) who is dysfunctional. Question: there is no Hebrew word in Job as prosecutor, so you are assuming this on this Hey-Satan creature who is NOT identified either as an angel or as a cherub or as an archon. Question: you didn't answer my question about cherub chata, how is this related to humans who are iyish or adam? I will download e-Sword and try it out, thanks for the advice. I did once on my older PC. Wow, I can search for G480. Maybe you can help me use this now When I read over the Hebrew satan verses the only meaning the stands out is adversary. And only a few verses does the term adversary mean the Name of a Being, so there is not much detail concerning who is Adversary is and what this Adversary is as a creature of matter. There is a big scholarly divide over the term hebrew hey-satan and the greek term satanas. I am not qualified Dave to address this divide as to the meaning of these prefix and suffix differences. It seems hugely important to you, and in fact is the crux of your Roman edit. I will get back to you on this. For me of child like faith, I will stick to the easier read: Cherub Chata. Your presentation for now is too scholarly and full of prefix and suffix differences over the Hebrew and Greek word meanings. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 21, 2021 14:44:55 GMT -5
You could have saved me 1000 posts if you told me thatI have awlys said this(1) the serpent is Satanas, the Greek term for the chief archon, GOD created to tempt humans to be tricked into sinning in the world of these archons, rather than to Love God fully. Also known as shedim, devils and demons, with messengers who work for him in deceiving the world of humans. Clarification = satanas = devils = Chaldean devils Is satanas the Beast / First Archon? Possibly – maybe – could be – but gnostic literature teaches a hierarchy The Beast / First Archon = The Great Red Dragon that just appeared And it appeared as a plurality = 10 horns + 7 crowns (10 dimensions = our 3D + 7D above us) The Great Red Dragon did not just appear alone – off spring – bane elohiym – archon – not angels of the Lord – satan’s seed But the Devil = his General of this WORLD – our world – us (could be other generals with other areas of responsibilities – it is a big uni-verse – not to mention the multi-verse) As in the Prince ‘sar’ archon of Persia in Dan 10 – an archon/devil/demon in charge of Persia Beelzebub and his shedim / Iblis and his Jinn / Allah the supreme leader of his ‘other gods’ in the Kaba – Baal, Molech, etc Catholic Devil and his demons The Serpent / Serpent race / devils / satanas / demons / evil spirits – are the soldiers Names do not matter – the devil is a satan – satanas is a devil – satanas is an evil spirit – an evil spirit is a devil – it is a name game
Gnostic – names do not matter – Christ / Jesus Christ / the Son of God are just different names for the same guy. So many different names and identifiers for God – and even the HS / medium / shaddy / shekinah / Spirit of God / Comforter – many name same entity – many names same God The Serpent Race = creatures made with matter – a race of creatures – many creatures = all satanas / devils / archon All archon – all of the same race – all of the same family of The First Archon and his offspring archonGOD created to tempt humansGnostic Literature or the agl does not say this – created to tempt1- It says – made with some matter – by the left hand – and ejected to earth (Gen 1:1 = all physical creation) 2- Gnostic adds – the left hand = HS – and the First thought of the First Archon / Beast = SELF = I am alone therefore I am first – a liar from the beginning 3- They are cast from the invisible heavens to the visible earth (all physical creation) 4- Gnostic adds – They are the first sentient creature in the physical creation – physical creation is their kingdom / domain – they are 100% Yester ra / SELF / SELFISH – they only want to consume and devour This is different than God made them to temp humans Do they temp human – YES – some even desire worship ‘ other gods’ Do they toy with man – by placing obstacle in our path – YES Do they pull the rug out from under you – just to watch you fall – YES Do they pit one man against another man – YES – maybe just for fun / their entertainment Gnosticism – does not see them a Catholic evil – just the ra that comes with WORLDChristian do not teach anything about the 99% that was never FORMALLY introduced to YHWY They all could recognize there must be a God – Rom 1:19 / Psa 19:2 But with knowing YHWY – thy fell for any (selfish) TRICKSTER / archon that desired worship – other gods of the 99%. Baal, Zeus, Apollo, Assyrian Storm Gods, Oden, Thor, Molech = all real = all archon = all other gods Follow the trail – giants, Human sacrifice (Babies) in the Levant – chased out by Joshua Carthage – human sacrifice (Babies) – chased out by Rome South America – human sacrifices (Babies) – giants - chased out by Spain America – Human sacrifice (Babies) – giants –died out around 800AD (2) Satan is a volunteer angel who in Job, is a prosecutor. Going a dirty job for the Lord. Only once verse about him in the NT.Correct – Hebrew satan is an angel of the Lord – acting as the accuser You are the one who changes the word to oppose – all my life satan has been the accuser in every other study I have ever doneQuestion: 1 Kings 22 the lying spirit, is NOT identified, so you cannot use the verse even, not proven to be an angel, or Satanas, or even Satan, just a MEDIUM (spirit) who is dysfunctional.YES – all we know – it was a ‘spirit’ either from the Right hand or the LeftAnd that its ‘function’ was that of a ‘deceiving spirit’ And – to be a deceiving spirit is sometimes in service to the Lord This is all we can say But my question to you = if it in service to the Lord – why is deception / lies? ½ truths automatically a SIN and evil – when it serves to facilitate God’s Plan / God’s Will? Eve said the serpent deceived her This is all we know! Sometimes to be a deceiving spirit is in the survived of the Lord My question – why does this automatically make the serpent a sinner / evil Eve said the serpent deceived her - This is all we know! Fact – God test His people Fact – to accomplish His Will in 1 King 22 God used a deceiving spirit To read more into it – requires validation from the bulk of scripture You say scripture is on the Received Text by Rome The Jews embrace a lot more – Solomon / Enoch / Jubilees / Book of Creation My Christian Gnosticism embraces - additional writing by the disciples of jess Christ – the same authors of the agl + other selected First Century Messianic Christian writing + REALITY + scientific observations (Rom 1:19 / Psa 19:2) – even History Things only happened one way so all things must point to it somehow – everything is interrelated and therefore relevant Question: there is no Hebrew word in Job as prosecutor, so you are assuming this on this Hey-Satan creature who is NOT identified either as an angel or as a cherub or as an archon.Hebrew satan is an angel of the Lord – acting as the accuser (which is a prosecutor) You are the one who changes the word to oppose – all my life satan has been the accuser in every other study I have ever doneQuestion: you didn't answer my question about cherub chata, how is this related to humans who are iyish or adam?1- as a student of translation (intermediate Greek only) – I am unwilling to hang my hat on one word Ezk contradicts Lev / Mathew and Luke disagree / Acts 16 Steven miss quotes Genesis Scripture is infallible – YES as to message – as to the lessons taught – as to the theology presented I am unwilling to hang my hat on one word 2- scripture must validate itself – precept upon precept, line upon line 83 verse in a row over 3 chapters of Ezk are all about the King of Tyre 79 verse we looked at – 23 + 49 – each one satan opposed man not God Sometimes satan opposed man in the service of the Lord Sometimes – God Himself was the satan 3- The agl is all about the Rev 12 BEAST – not Hebrew satan The Beast cannot be Ezk 28 friends with God perfect then sinned – NO The Beast appeared ready to devour Who was perfect in all his ways before he sinned = Adam / man / Eve Who walked in heaven with God = Adam / man / Eve Who was in the Garden = Adam / man / Eve King of Tyre – as is King Cyrus = are examples of Adam / man / Eve / every man / anyman Wow, I can search for G480. Maybe you can help me use this now This is how I use mine – Bibles installed = 1535 Bishops Bible – just for a blast at Middle English in translation – also it has 14 more books than the KJV ASV – is what I use as my standard when I translate When I translate – it do not sound like the TLV or the KJV – but more like the ASV KJV and KJV+ (KJV + strong #) I also have Greek NT I also have Greek NT TR+ (Geek NY + strongs # + RMAC codes) Also Greek OT+ (LXX + strongs # + RMAC codes) Also HOT+ (Hebrew + strongs #) And for you I added TLV – and I kinda like it Must have – dictionaries – strongs of course – but in Greek you also need Thayers In Greek you also need RMAC codes Wow, I can search for G480. Maybe you can help me use this now This is the game I play a lot since meeting you Search for G480 in the LXX – but have the KJV+ ahl open in the background What did the Jewish Scholars of the LXX think it meant in 250 BC Extras – Commentaries – I use TSK Cross-references, Adam Clark, Mathew Henery at times Everything I use is free What I do not like about eSword = HOT / HOT+ (Hebrew ahl) Does not contain all the vowels or breathing marks – this is disappointing (also could just be my downloaded version – several to choose from) eSword HOT Gen 6:13 ויאמר אלהים לנח קץ כל בשׂר בא לפני כי מלאה The WORD (also a free software similar – comes with ESV – Catholic?) וַיֹּ֨אמֶר אֱלֹהִ֜ים לְנֹ֗חַ קֵ֤ץ כָּל־בָּשָׂר֙ בָּ֣א לְפָנַ֔י כִּֽי־מָלְאָ֥ה הָאָ֛רֶץ חָמָ֖ס מִפְּנֵיהֶ֑ם וְהִנְנִ֥י מַשְׁחִיתָ֖ם אֶת־הָאָֽרֶץ׃ Also the WORD has a $25 purchase add on – “Westminster Hebrew Morphology Codes”Works just like RMAC codes in Greek Just got it myself a few months ago dirring our discussions There is a big scholarly divide over the term hebrew hey-satan and the greek term satanas.
I am not qualified Dave to address this divide as to the meaning of these prefix and suffix differences. It seems hugely important to you, and in fact is the crux of your Roman edit.Here is the divide - Before the agl – the enemy to God’s chosen people were other nations and other gods Before Rome – ahl Hebrew satan was just an angel of the Lord The agl introduces the Beast – this is a new player with the scripture agl Beast is a plurality / devils / satanas / serpent race / devils / demons / evil spirit Before Rome – ahl Hebrew satan was just an angel of the Lord Before the agl – the enemy to God’s chosen people were other nations and other gods The agl is not about God’s chosen people as a nation any more – the age of the gentile – is the age where you and I can personally know God – commune with God – the agl is a personal message The agl is about you and your struggle with your real enemy After Rome – the enemy is an angel of the Lord – that rose up against the Lord Then all creation changed and satan is the god of evil and all the demons used to be angels After Rome evil satan want to win you to do evil and belong to his kingdom in hell Why – what purpose – it all goes into the lake of fire no matter how many souls satan wins Judaism – Messianic Christianity – Gnostic – agl satan is not an angel of the lord agl satan is not the Hebrew satan agl satanas is of the Beast / the First Archon / The Great Red Dragon Does agl satan want you in his kingdom – YES – this WORLD – stay focused here Does agl satans cause you to sin – only because he reinforces lust / desire / greed / want / covet Does agl satanas make you sin – NOPE – choice is always man’s
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2021 16:07:41 GMT -5
Nice scholarly post Dave, I have nothing to reply to at this stage, only that I concur with you Using e-sword I noticed(sorry copy and paste is terrible) Mat_24:45 WhoG5101 thenG686 isG2076 a faithfulG4103 andG2532 wiseG5429 servant,G1401 whomG3739 hisG846 lordG2962 hath made rulerG2525 overG1909 hisG848 household,G2322 to giveG1325 themG846 meatG5160 inG1722 due season?G2540 Who then is faithful and wise servant, whom his Lord established over his houshold to give food in due season. (The translators have no right to include "establish as a ruler " though from Acts 7:27 this function is implied using the Greek term archon, to "rule as the first in rank" ie "chief ruler" ) Mat_24:47 VerilyG281 I sayG3004 unto you,G5213 ThatG3754 he shall make him rulerG2525 G846 overG1909 allG3956 hisG848 goods.G5224 Verily saying unto you, that (he) established over all his property. Mat_25:21 (G1161) HisG846 lordG2962 saidG5346 unto him,G846 Well done,G2095 thou goodG18 andG2532 faithfulG4103 servant:G1401 thou hast beenG2258 faithfulG4103 overG1909 a few things,G3641 I will make thee rulerG2525 G4571 overG1909 many things:G4183 enterG1525 thou intoG1519 theG3588 joyG5479 of thyG4675 lord.G2962 ...I will establish (thee) over many things... Mat_25:23 HisG846 lordG2962 saidG5346 unto him,G846 Well done,G2095 goodG18 andG2532 faithfulG4103 servant;G1401 thou hast beenG2258 faithfulG4103 overG1909 a few things,G3641 I will make thee rulerG2525 G4571 overG1909 many things:G4183 enterG1525 thou intoG1519 theG3588 joyG5479 of thyG4675 lord.G2962 ...I will establish (thee) over many things... Luk_12:14 AndG1161 heG3588 saidG2036 unto him,G846 Man,G444 whoG5101 madeG2525 meG3165 a judgeG1348 orG2228 a dividerG3312 overG1909 you?G5209 ...who established me... Luk_12:42 AndG1161 theG3588 LordG2962 said,G2036 WhoG5101 thenG686 isG2076 that faithfulG4103 andG2532 wiseG5429 steward,G3623 whomG3739 his lordG2962 shall make rulerG2525 overG1909 hisG848 household,G2322 to giveG1325 them their portion of meatG4620 inG1722 due season?G2540 ...whom his lord established over his household Luk_12:44 Of a truthG230 I sayG3004 unto you,G5213 thatG3754 he will make him rulerG2525 G846 overG1909 allG3956 that he hath.G5224 G848 ..he established (thee) over all he hath Act_6:3 Wherefore,G3767 brethren,G80 look ye outG1980 amongG1537 youG5216 sevenG2033 menG435 of honest report,G3140 fullG4134 of the HolyG40 GhostG4151 andG2532 wisdom,G4678 whomG3739 we may appointG2525 overG1909 thisG5026 business.G5532 established over this business. Act_7:10 AndG2532 deliveredG1807 himG846 out ofG1537 allG3956 hisG846 afflictions,G2347 andG2532 gaveG1325 himG846 favourG5485 andG2532 wisdomG4678 in the sightG1726 of PharaohG5328 kingG935 of Egypt;G125 andG2532 he madeG2525 himG846 governorG2233 overG1909 EgyptG125 andG2532 allG3650 hisG848 house.G3624 and established him governor (Hebrew: shallyit) over Egypt I notice this cross reference to Gen 42:6 and the LXX using the terms to establish Act_7:27 ButG1161 he that did his neighbour wrongG91 G4139 thrust him away,G683 G846 saying,G2036 WhoG5101 madeG2525 theeG4571 a rulerG758 andG2532 a judgeG1348 overG1909 us?G2248 who established thee (first in rank as a ruler) (greek archon) and judge over us? Act_7:35 ThisG5126 MosesG3475 whomG3739 they refused,G720 saying,G2036 WhoG5101 madeG2525 theeG4571 a rulerG758 andG2532 a judge?G1348 the sameG5126 did GodG2316 sendG649 to be a rulerG758 andG2532 a delivererG3086 byG1722 the handG5495 of the angelG32 which appearedG3700 to himG846 inG1722 theG3588 bush.G942 ...who established thee (first in rank as a ruler) and judge ... Act_17:15 AndG1161 they that conductedG2525 PaulG3972 broughtG71 himG846 untoG2193 Athens:G116 andG2532 receivingG2983 a commandmentG1785 untoG4314 SilasG4609 andG2532 TimotheusG5095 for to comeG2064 toG4314 himG846 with all speed,G5613 G5033 they departed.G1826 ..and they established Paul... Rom_5:19 ForG1063 asG5618 byG1223 oneG1520 man'sG444 disobedienceG3876 manyG4183 were madeG2525 sinners,G268 soG3779 (G2532) byG1223 theG3588 obedienceG5218 of oneG1520 shall manyG4183 be madeG2525 righteous.G1342 For as by one man's disobedience many established sin-offering, so and by the obedience of one many (are) established straight. Tit_1:5 For this causeG5484 G5127 leftG2641 I theeG4571 inG1722 Crete,G2914 thatG2443 thou shouldest set in orderG1930 the things that are wanting,G3007 andG2532 ordainG2525 eldersG4245 in every city,G2596 G4172 asG5613 IG1473 had appointedG1299 thee:G4671 establish elders Heb_2:7 Thou madestG1642 himG846 a little lowerG5100 G1024 thanG3844 the angels;G32 thou crownedstG4737 himG846 with gloryG1391 andG2532 honour,G5092 andG2532 didst setG2525 himG846 overG1909 theG3588 worksG2041 of thyG4675 hands:G5495 R" why use malak (messengers) (wrongly translated angels) when Hebrew says a little lower than elohiym? ..and established him... Why do translators use a different invented word malak when elohiym was used in OT Hebrew? I couple of thing I could mention as to chata and chataah: When Adam sinned in Eden, GOD established sin-offering for Adam's sin. This is an important thing. Before sinning came there was no sin-offering process for sinning. It was added after sinning came because Jesus volunteered to pay the price for Adam's sinning. Here is the only verse in the law that defines the sin-offering process and why Jesus died... Ex 21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, The first life for life principle was the blood of animals, but later it had to be the blood from a divine Saviour. Regarding the confusion of "lying medium" "hey-satan" used a name of a being, and "satanas" used in Greek as the serpent come devil come demons come deceiver of the NT, I will have to get back to you. D" I am unwilling to hang my hat on one wordR" Yes I understand your point. Sometimes Scripture is very brief, like avoiding bad foods for our diet. Ex 17:12 But Moses <Mosheh>' hands <yad> were heavy <kabed>; and they took <laqach> a stone <'eben>, and put <suwm> it under him, and he sat <yashab> thereon; and Aaron <'Aharown> and Hur <Chuwr> stayed up <tamak> his hands <yad>, the one on the one side <'echad>, and the other on the other side <'echad>; and his hands <yad> were steady <'emuwnah> until the going down <bow'> of the sun <shemesh> This one verse truly defines faith in concrete terms, yet not a single religion talks about it, not even the Jews that I know of. And strangely enough Ellen White does only briefly and for the rest of her thousands of pages, the faith concept is intentionally hidden from readers. Why? Because God reveals things to those only who seek. How does the Inspired Hebrew English translator describe "faith" to us? At all times and in all places, in all sorrows and in all afflictions, when the outlook seems dark and the future perplexing, and we feel helpless and alone, the Comforter will be sent in answer to the prayer of faith. Circumstances may separate us from every earthly friend; but no circumstance, no distance, can separate us from the heavenly Comforter. Wherever we are, wherever we may go, He is always at our right hand to support, sustain, uphold, and cheer.�The Desire of Ages, 669, 670.T hat prayer which comes forth from an earnest, believing heart is the effectual, fervent prayer that availeth much. God does not always answer our prayers as we expect, for we may not ask what would be for our highest good; but in his infinite love and wisdom he will give us those things which we most need. Happy the minister who has a faithful Aaron and Hur to strengthen his hands when they become weary, and to hold them up by faith and prayer. Such a support is a powerful aid to the servant of Christ in his work, and will often make the cause of truth to triumph gloriously. GW92 32.2(amazing how Ellen wrote "He is always at our right hand to support", a Jewish saying isn't it?) Does the SDA church know about this definition of faith? No, not that the Author is aware of. Most so called followers of Jesus do not know what faith is, or how one gets this gift from GOD. These are the only two passages written by Ellen White explaining the true meaning of faith. The faith understanding in the translators is made confused, like some belief idea. So how does one show faith in Jesus our Saviour? Yashuah 14:2 Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, By praying (speaking) back the words of Jesus, so His power flows into you. Easy huh? Even a child can do this. But Dave should we hang our hats on a single verse and a single word? Hab 2:4 Behold, ... the just shall live by his faith. One verse only in the OT Hebrew, we all hang our hats on one verse only. Sure Paul uses this verse heaps in the NT, but it's written once in the OT. Prefix and suffix aside, the letters XUN forming "prickle thorn letter, basket covering letter, over the nations to continue generations letter." (1) The prickle thorn letter was lost from modern Hebrew, so Jeff Benner reinstalls this letter meaning. There is a problem already in this word. The letter refers to weeds, the curse of GOD when Adam sinned, thus allowing RA to come in. (2) The basket covering of good things. (3) The humans letter N-ations. SO this letter is about the thorn being who brings RA (which has to be engineered by GOD for the RA creature can't do such RA on his own, as RA normally cannot exist in God's world) The basket of good things is spoiled by the thorns. The nations of the world experience. This is the meaning of "hey" a letter meaning Behold the Being. And the thorns of RA covering over the good things, over all the nations of humans. Now adding prefix, suffix such as satanas, or not makes the meanings a relative, the root word is the same. I suspect the two words satan and satanas come from the same place. And as for your prosecutor being, God doesn't need a prosecutor during judgement. Never had one depicted on the day of atonement, not one mentioned in heavenly judgements. So on the discussions we have had over the years, you view is not real strong, with my view. However it is your view, so as to a scholar approach I will get back to you. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 21, 2021 18:20:38 GMT -5
Mat_24:45 WhoG5101 thenG686 isG2076 a faithfulG4103 andG2532 wiseG5429 servant,G1401 whomG3739 hisG846 lordG2962 hath made rulerG2525 overG1909 hisG848 household,G2322 to giveG1325 themG846 meatG5160 inG1722 due season?G2540
Who then is faithful and wise servant, whom his Lord established over his houshold to give food in due season.
(The translators have no right to include "establish as a ruler " though from Acts 7:27 this function is implied using the Greek term archon, to "rule as the first in rank" ie "chief ruler" )
Where do you get establish as a ruler?
Hey – its your KJV Mat 24:45 (TLV) 'Who, then, is the servant, faithful and wise, whom his lord did set over his household, to give them the nourishment in season? Mat 24:45 (ASV) Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath set over his household, to give them their food in due season?
Mat_24:47 VerilyG281 I sayG3004 unto you,G5213 ThatG3754 he shall make him rulerG2525 G846 overG1909 allG3956 hisG848 goods.G5224 Verily saying unto you, that (he) established over all his property.
Hey – its your KJV Mat 24:47 (ASV) Verily I say unto you, that he will set him over all that he hath. Mat 24:47 (TLV) Amen, I tell you, his master will put him in charge of all his possessions.
Act 7:10 (TLV) He rescued him out of all his troubles and granted him favor and wisdom before Pharaoh, king of Egypt, who made him governor over Egypt and all his household.
and established him governor (Hebrew: shallyit) over Egypt I notice this cross reference to Gen 42:6 and the LXX using the terms to establish
What – The LXX does not say anything about being established Gen 42:6 LXX says Jospeh was governor Gen 42:6 (LXX) Ιωσηφ δὲ ἦν ἄρχων
Act 7:22 Moses was educated in all the wisdom of the Egyptians, and he was powerful in his words and deeds. Act 7:23 “When he was approaching forty years of age, it came into his heart to visit his brothers, Bnei-Yisrael. Act 7:24 When he saw one of them being treated unjustly, he went to the defense of the oppressed man and avenged him by striking down the Egyptian. Act 7:25 He was assuming that his brothers understood that by his hand God was delivering them, but they did not understand. Act 7:26 So on the next day he appeared to them as they were fighting. He tried to reconcile them in shalom, saying, ‘Men, you are brothers. Why do you wrong one another?’ Act 7:27 “But the one doing wrong to his neighbor pushed him away, saying, ‘Who appointed you ruler and judge over us? who established thee (first in rank as a ruler) (greek archon) and judge over us?
Sometimes rules just means rulers – Joseph was a Governor, some men are magistrates, some are judges This case – the miss behaving man said to Moses ...who established thee (first in rank as a ruler) and judge ... then he ran away
Act 7:35 “This Moses—whom they rejected, saying, ‘Who appointed you as ruler and judge?’—is the one whom God sent as both ruler and redeemer, by the hand of the angel who appeared to him in the bush.
Who appointed Moses as ruler and judge – God did
Act 17:15 (TLV)Those escorting Paul brought him as far as Athens. After receiving an order for Silas and Timothy to come to him as soon as possible, they left. ..and they established Paul...
They ordered Paul to go – they put in motion that Paul had to go - they ordained Paul to go – they commissioned Paul to go Even I do not like escort – escort implies that they went with him – the Greek does not say that The Greek says – they told Paul he needed to go – and Paul went
Rom 5:19 For just as through the disobedience of one man, many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of one man, many will be set right forever.
For as by one man's disobedience many established sin-offering, so and by the obedience of one many (are) established straight.
OK – respect here for the word 1- if you insist on the singular word establish - then it is By one man’s disobedience – man were established sinners
2- were established - G268 - ἁμαρτωλός - sinful, that is, a sinner: - sinful, sinner. Where do you get this sin offering thing? Sin – being sinful – or being unrighteous is not a sacrifice for the atonement of sin!
Tit 1:5 The reason I left you in Crete was so that you would set in order the things that remain and appoint elders in every city as I directed you— establish elders / appoint elders – YEP
When Adam sinned in Eden, GOD established sin-offering for Adam's sin. This is an important thing. Before sinning came there was no sin-offering process for sinning. It was added after sinning came because Jesus volunteered to pay the price for Adam's sinning. That sin-offering is REPENTANCE!
Here is the only verse in the law that defines the sin-offering process and why Jesus died... Ex 21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
What about the Law? Lev 6:26 The priest that offereth it for sin shall eat it: in the holy place shall it be eaten, in the court of the tabernacle of the congregation.
Christian are not taught this – Temple sacrifices were community BBQs This is one way even the poorest got a good meal
Deu 14:24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee: Deu 14:25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
Yes – the best of everything – shared with the community – widows – orphans – etc
Heb 2:7 (KJV) Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
R" why use malak (messengers) (wrongly translated angels) when Hebrew says a little lower than elohiym? 1- elohiym just means ‘heavenly being’ God – the trinity – the Angels and the Archon Bane elohiym – sons of the heavenly being – the Beast 2- Order of hierarchy God and High angels close to God Other angelic beings working and serving the Lord all over the multi-verse Low heaven – the one next to man = the home of the archon (invisible) and can appear with our heaven / reality Down with man – in the lower heaven (lowest heaven)
Multi-dimensionalism 3D – our reality 4D – home of the archon – principalities 5D-10D all higher dimension with 10D being the throne of God
Why do translators use a different invented word malak when elohiym was used in OT Hebrew? Because man is not a little lower than the 10th D – we are lower than the 4th D the home of invisible archon - we are lower than all the Ds above that filled with angels
So how does one show faith in Jesus our Saviour? Ok Robert – you can make a list of dos and don’ts But any faker can go through the motions of religion
But Dave should we hang our hats on a single verse and a single word? Hab 2:4 Behold, ... the just shall live by his faith. Sure Paul uses this verse heaps in the NT, but it's written once in the OT.
Now adding prefix, suffix such as satanas, or not makes the meanings a relative, the root word is the same. I suspect the two words satan and satanas come from the same place. AND you would be wrong – why does the Greek Dictionaries all make this point – of Chaldean origin?
And as for your prosecutor being, God doesn't need a prosecutor during judgement God doesn’t need angels to fight his battels – but he does God does not need angels to deliver His messages – but he does God doesn’t need an angel of death either – but he does Your right – God is absolute – He does not need anything – but he does
PS if you want me to read your post – don’t post KJV+ - I have difficulties reading it
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2021 15:06:22 GMT -5
D"Where do you get this sin offering thing?
R" Isn't chata (Gr: hamartolos) different from chataah (Gr" hamartia) ?
Ex 29:14 .. it is a sin offering. Ex 29:36 .. offer every day a bullock for a sin offering for atonement: Ex 30:10 .. once in a year with the blood of the sin offering
Now notice confusion
Le 4:3 If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering. (KJV)
Le 4:3 If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his "sin-offering", which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering.
Now it's better. Consistent.
Ex 32:30 .. Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: (KJV)
Why this confusion? chata great chataah?
Ex 32:31 And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin,
Why this confusion? chata great chataah?
Sinned a great sin-offering, would be more consistent?
Consider some NT examples:
Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; (KJV)
So if you sin, you die immediately? I don't think so?
Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin-offering is death;
Now it's correct, if you make a sin-offering, the death is immediate and real and concrete.
The day Adam and Eve sinned, they confessed their sinning unto a sin-offering and the Lord Jesus who stood by them, offered a lamb in it's place, to confirm that the Lord Himself who pay the price for mischief, ie life for life. So something did die immediately.
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Rp" Why do translators use a different invented word malak when elohiym was used in OT Hebrew? D" Because man is not a little lower than the 10th D – we are lower than the 4th D the home of invisible archon - we are lower than all the Ds above that filled with angels
R" That is interpreting the text Dave. Why didn't they simply say "man was made a little lower than elohiym" and leave it like that?
D"elohiym just means ‘heavenly being’ God – the trinity – the Angels and the Archon
R" Care to unpack this statement please?
To me, elohiym means "family power".
1) family of judges (singular) 2) Aaron and Moses were family elohiym (singular) 3) God is family elohiym of power (singular).
The first words "el" means "strong authority" The next "eloh" means "provider" the Heavenly Father as we term this. The last bit "elohim" means the strong authority of the Father flows.
I have Jeff Benner to thank for educating me into this insight. I also note Jeff does not translate elohiym at all, leaving the term as elohiym-powers. (where as I do)
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 22, 2021 16:40:58 GMT -5
D"Where do you get this sin offering thing? R" Isn't chata (Gr: hamartolos) different from chataah (Gr" hamartia) ?
Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
G268 - ἁμαρτωλός - hamartōlos - From G264; sinful, that is, a sinner: - sinful, sinner. G264 - ἁμαρτάνω - hamartanō - properly to miss the mark
(wiki) A sin offering (Hebrew: קָרְבַּן חַטָּאת, korban ḥatat, IPA: [χaˈtat], lit: "purification offering" is a sacrificial offering described and commanded in the Torah (Lev. 4.1-35); it could be fine flour or a proper animal.
A sin offering also occurs in 2 Chronicles 29:21 where seven bulls, seven rams, seven lambs and seven he-goats were sacrificed on the command of King Hezekiah for the kingdom, for the sanctuary, and for Judah. Like all types of sacrifices offered on the altar, the flour had to be unscented and the animal had to be completely unblemished.
This offered sacrifice accompanied the important required core means of atonement for the committing of an unintentional transgression of a prohibition, that either has brought guilt upon the 'community of Israel' or the individual
Ex 29:14 .. it is a sin offering. Exo 29:14 But the meat of the bull, along with its skin and its dung, you are to burn with fire outside the camp. It is a sin offering. YES - A sacrifice for the atonement of sin
Ex 29:36 .. offer every day a bullock for a sin offering for atonement: YES - A sacrifice for the atonement of sin
Now notice confusion Le 4:3 If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering. (KJV)
Lev 4:3 (TLV) —or if the anointed kohen sins so as to bring guilt on the people—then let him offer for his sin which he has committed, a young bull without blemish to Adonai for a sin offering. 1- if a priest sins and it harm all the people 2- he is to sacrifice a bull as sacrifice for the atonement od his sin
Ex 32:30 .. Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: (KJV) Why this confusion? chata great chataah?
Exo 32:30 So it happened the following day, Moses said to the people, “You have committed a horrendous sin. So now I will go up to Adonai—perhaps I can make atonement for your sin.” Because a Korbats is a offering for the atonement of sin
Ex 32:31 And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, ]Why the confusion? chata great chataah?
Exo 32:31 And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned (H2398) a great sin (H2401), and have made them gods of gold.
H2398-חָטָא-châṭâ'-A primitive root; properly to miss; hence (figuratively and generally) to sin; H2401 – חֲטָאָה - chăṭâ'âh - an offence (sin), or a sacrifice for it (sin offering):
The people misses / sinned - a really big offense (sin) What is your confusion ? chata great chataah?
Sinned a great sin-offering, would be more consistent? You have me lost in your train of thought
You want the verse to say – the people sinned a great sacrifice to the lord Why have you been taught that Korbats (personal sacrifices to the Lord) are sinful?
Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; (KJV) So if you sin, you die immediately? I don't think so? Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin-offering is death; So you think your mortal death is a sacrifice to the lord for atonement of sin? Is everyone who dies is then automatically saved because their mortal death was a sacrifice for attornment
You teach - death is a human sacrifice for the atonement of sin? --------------------
R" That is interpreting the text Dave. Why did they simply say "man was made a little lower than elohiym" and leave it like that? The original text did leave it -
Heb 2:7 = Greek G32 messengers Psa 8:5 (KJV) For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels (H4480 H430)
H4480-מִנֵּי - min - properly a part of; hence (prepositionally), from or out of in many senses H430 – אֱלֹהִים - 'ĕlôhı̂ym - Plural; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels,
Ps 8:5 eSword HOT+ = מהH4100 אנושׁH582 כיH3588 תזכרנוH2142 ובןH1121 אדםH120 כיH3588 תפקדנו׃H6485
Question? – Where is KJV “the angels (H4480 H430)” in eSwords Hebrew? The Hebrew says God marked his children H120 – אָדָם - 'âdâm - From H119; ruddy, that is, a human being (an individual or the species, mankind,
Psa 8:5 The Word = מָֽה־אֱנֹ֥ושׁ כִּֽי־תִזְכְּרֶ֑נּוּ וּבֶן־אָ֝דָ֗ם כִּ֣י תִפְקְדֶֽנּוּ׃
Question? – Where is KJV “the angels (H4480 H430)” in The Word Westminster Hebrew? The Hebrew says – God made his low children scared H119 אָדַם 'adam (aw-dam') v. 1. to show blood (in the face). 2. to become red (flush) or turn rosy. 3. to make or dye red.
Two different Hebrew text – both used wifely – both respected – both with different words
Psa 8:5 (YLT) And causest him to lack a little of Godhead,
Psa 8:5 (LXX) τί ἐστιν ἄνθρωπος, ὅτι μιμνῄσκῃ αὐτοῦ, ἢ υἱὸς ἀνθρώπου, ὅτι ἐπισκέπτῃ αὐτόν; Every man is reminded that he is DIFFERENT than the one who sees him
Psa 8:5 (TLV) what is man, that You are mindful of him? And the son of man, that You care for him?
And why I would never bet my life on one word!
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D"elohiym just means ‘heavenly being’ God – the trinity – the Angels and the Archon R" Care to unpack this statement please?
Christ is a messenger from the Lord – or the Lord in physical message form The Spirit of God = God at distance – carrying messages and instructions for the Father Any messenger from the heavens to man = a heavenly being
Angels carry messages and instructions from the Lord Archon carry messages and instructions for the Beast Any messenger from the heavens to man = a heavenly being
Fish live in the sea - it is their home Birds live in the sky - it is their home Cows live in the pasture - it is their home Elohiym (pl) regardless of their name, title, or function live in the heavens - it is their home
The first words "el" means "strong authority" The next "eloh" means "provider" the Heavenly Father as we term this. The last bit "elohim" means the strong authority of the Father flows.
The last bit is a plurality = Any messenger from the heavens to man = a heavenly being
I have Jeff Benner to thank for educating me into this insight. I also note Jeff does not translate elohiym at all, leaving the term as elohiym-powers.
Because it is a polyseminous word – a plurality – POWERS – strong authorities all stronger than mortal man
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Post by Dave on Aug 22, 2021 19:06:09 GMT -5
Psa 8:5 (KJV) For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels (H4480 H430)
Psa 8:5 (YLT) And causest him to lack a little of Godhead,
Psa 8:5 (LXX) τί ἐστιν ἄνθρωπος, ὅτι μιμνῄσκῃ αὐτοῦ, ἢ υἱὸς ἀνθρώπου, ὅτι ἐπισκέπτῃ αὐτόν; Every man is reminded that he is DIFFERENT than the one who sees him (this is just a quick and dirty translation by me - not a simple text)
Psa 8:5 (TLV) what is man, that You are mindful of him? And the son of man, that You care for him?
Ps 8:5 eSword HOT+ = מהH4100 אנושׁH582 כיH3588 תזכרנוH2142 ובןH1121 אדםH120 כיH3588 תפקדנו׃H6485
Question? – Where is KJV “the angels (H4480 H430)” in eSwords Hebrew? The Hebrew says God marked his children H120 – אָדָם - 'âdâm - From H119; ruddy, that is, a human being (an individual or the species, mankind,
Psa 8:5 The Word = מָֽה־אֱנֹ֥ושׁ כִּֽי־תִזְכְּרֶ֑נּוּ וּבֶן־אָ֝דָ֗ם כִּ֣י תִפְקְדֶֽנּוּ׃
Question? – Where is KJV “the angels (H4480 H430)” in The Word Westminster Hebrew? The Hebrew says – God made his low children scared H119 אָדַם 'adam (aw-dam') v. 1. to show blood (in the face). 2. to become red (flush) or turn rosy. 3. to make or dye red.
Two different Hebrew text – both used wifely – both respected – both with different words
And why I would never bet my life on one word!
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The WORD - Westminster Codex = The Leningrad Codex
(wiki) The Leningrad Codex is the oldest complete manuscript of the Hebrew Bible in Hebrew, using the Masoretic Text and Tiberian vocalization. According to its colophon, it was made in Cairo in 1008 CE (or possibly 1009). There are older manuscripts of translations into other languages, such as the 4th-century Codex Vaticanus in Greek (surviving almost complete).
Some have proposed that the Leningrad Codex was corrected against the slightly earlier Aleppo Codex. However, Paul E. Kahle argues that the Leningrad manuscript was more likely based on other, lost manuscripts by the ben Asher family.[2] The Aleppo Codex is several decades older, but parts of it have been missing since the 1947 anti-Jewish riots in Aleppo, making the Leningrad Codex the oldest complete codex of the Tiberian mesorah that has survived intact to this day.
1- Codex Vaticanus (The received text) is Greek not Hebrew – your 1611 KJV
Textus Receptus
(wiki) In Christianity, the term Textus Receptus (Latin for "received text") refers to all printed editions of the Greek New Testament from Erasmus' Novum Instrumentum omne
1611 Text Receptus (Received text) text is based mainly on Codex Vaticanus
The Codex Vaticanus (The Vatican, Bibl. Vat., Vat. gr. 1209; no. B or 03 Gregory-Aland, δ 1 von Soden) is one of the oldest copies of the Bible, one of the four great uncial codices. The Codex is named after its place of conservation in the Vatican Library, where it has been kept since at least the 15th century
Codex Vaticanus originally contained a virtually complete copy of the Septuagint ("LXX"), lacking only 1-4 Maccabees and the Prayer of Manasseh.
Verses not in the 1611 Text Receptus (Received text) codex
Matthew 12:47; 16:2b-3; 17:21; 18:11; 23:14;[15] Mark 7:16; 9:44.46; 11:26; 15:28;[16]
The end of Mark in Vaticanus contains an empty column after Verse 16:8, possibly suggesting that the scribe was aware of the missing ending. It is the only empty New Testament column in the Codex.[17]
Mark 16:9–20; —The Book of Mark ends with verse 16:8, consistent with the Alexandrian text-type.[18] Luke 17:36, 22:43–44;[19] John 5:4, Pericope Adulterae (John 7:53–8:11);[20] Acts 8:37; 15:34, 24:7; 28:29;[21] Romans 16:24.[22][23] 1 Peter 5:3.[24][25]
Phrases not in Vaticanus but in later manuscripts include
Matthew 5:44 – εὐλογεῖτε τοὺς καταρωμένους ὑμᾶς, καλῶς ποιεῖτε τοῖς μισοῦσιν ὑμᾶς (bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you);[26] Matthew 10:37b – καὶ ὁ φιλῶν υἱὸν ἢ θυγατέρα ὑπὲρ ἐμὲ οὐκ ἔστιν μου ἄξιος (and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me) as Codex Bezae;[27] Matthew 15:6 – ἢ τὴν μητέρα (αὐτοῦ) (or (his) mother);[28] Matthew 20:23 – καὶ τὸ βάπτισμα ὂ ἐγὼ βαπτίζομαι βαπτισθήσεσθε (and be baptised with the baptism that I am baptised with), as in codices Sinaiticus, D, L, Z, Θ, 085, f1, f13, it, Syriac Sinaiticus (syrs), syrc, copsa.[29] Mark 10:7 – καὶ προσκολληθήσεται πρὸς τὴν γυναῖκα αὐτοῦ (and be joined to his wife), as in codices Sinaiticus, Codex Athous Lavrensis, 892, ℓ 48, Sinaitic Palimpsest (syrs), Gothic Codex Argenteus.[30] Mark 10:19 – μη αποστερησης omitted (as in codices K, W, Ψ, f1, f13, 28, 700, 1010, 1079, 1242, 1546, 2148, ℓ 10, ℓ 950, ℓ 1642, ℓ 1761, syrs, arm, geo) but added by a later corrector (B2).[31] Luke 9:55–56 – και ειπεν, Ουκ οιδατε ποιου πνευματος εστε υμεις; ο γαρ υιος του ανθρωπου ουκ ηλθεν ψυχας ανθρωπων απολεσαι αλλα σωσαι (and He said: "You do not know what manner of spirit you are of; for the Son of man came not to destroy men's lives but to save them) — omitted as in codices Sinaiticus, C, L, Θ, Ξ, 33, 700, 892, 1241, Old Syriac version (syr), copbo;[32] Luke 11:4 – αλλα ρυσαι ημας απο του πονηρου (but deliver us from evil) omitted. Omission is supported by the manuscripts: 𝔓75, Sinaiticus, L, f1 700 vg syrs copsa, bo, arm geo.[33] Luke 23:34 – "And Jesus said: Father forgive them, they know not what they do." This omission is supported by the manuscripts 𝔓75, Sinaiticusa, D*, W, Θ, 0124, 1241, a, d, syrs, copsa, copbo.[34] Additions In Matt. 27:49 the Codex contains added text: ἄλλος δὲ λαβὼν λόγχην ἒνυξεν αὐτοῦ τὴν πλευράν, καὶ ἐξῆλθεν ὖδωρ καὶ αἳμα (and another took a spear, piercing His side, and out came water and blood). This reading was derived from John 19:34 and occurs in other manuscripts of the Alexandrian text-type (א, C, L, Γ, 1010, 1293, pc, vgmss).[35]
1-Codex Vaticanus (The received text) is Greek not Hebrew – your 1611 KJV 2- the Codex Vaticanus (The received text) is Greek not Hebrew and it is NOT PERFECT! 3- The Textus Receptus was written by Erasmus 4- (google) Erasmus was considered by some to be a Protestant sympathizer, and in 1559 his texts were put on a Roman index of forbidden books. Both sides tried to censor each other whenever they could, with the Catholics being somewhat more effective, at least during the 16th century.
5- 1583 Giordano Bruno is excommunicated from the Catholic Church because he had a copy of Erasmus hidden in the toilet
6- Erasmus writes the Textus Receptus – it is the primary text for the 1611 KJV – but his texts were put on a Roman index of forbidden books in 1559.
And why I would never bet my life on one word!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2021 13:05:18 GMT -5
D"Because it is a polyseminous word – a plurality – POWERS – strong authorities all stronger than mortal man
R" Does plurality mean Dave, that elohiym has more than one strong authority? ie other judges, Aaron and Moses, for example? And here "Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me". No other elohiym's before me. Wasn't Dagon a chief deity among a family of deities?
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Regarding your history of how the Bible came to us. Hmm?
Can't GOD preserve His word to His people? Is it really necessary to have all the right words, rather just have the right message and live to it as best as we can?
Specifically do you have a point? Are you saying our Bibles have differences enough to leave out the messages of salvation?
Ro 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness,
God measures us by the light we live up to....getting words perfectly correct, ie you need for word perfection with satan and satanas for example, is an example....surely God has preserved His messages? How much different is the Lengingrad Codex compared to other codex, in terms of salvation messages, the most important thing to Christians walking with Jesus? missing sentences, spelling errors, omissions, Hmm? yes, but can I be saved from what messages I have already?
For example, on a slightly different theme, this is heaven sent:---
I received this Messanic email today, so a different view to your view of Jewish Messanic thinking:-
I quote"
Messianic Bible <news@biblesforisrael.com> To: rthom7@yahoo.com.au
Mon, 23 Aug at 9:11 pm
Image of Western Wall with open book of prayer in front. “‘For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways,’ declares the LORD.” (Isaiah 55:8)
Shalom Rob, Whatever Christian denomination you belong to (or non-denominational church or Messianic congregation), the way you understand and live out God’s Word are likely influenced by Greek thought.
The early Greek philosophers, such as Socrates and Plato in the 5th century BC, introduced the world to valuable concepts such as logic, reason, and textual criticism that heavily influenced the early Church in ways we are still uncovering. Rob how true. jeff benner picks up on this.
How does the Hebraic mindset differ from the Greek when it comes to understanding God’s Word and living a holy Christian life?
Shelves with religious books near the Western (Wailing) Wall What Is Good and Holy? In traditional Hebraic culture, everything is meant to be holy. God created the entire physical world and He declared it to be “good.” After He made mankind, He declared it to be “very good” (Genesis 1:25, 31). Continuing to Genesis 3, the man and woman sinned, and we now live in a fallen world.
Rob" Care to explain how this Messanic view is different from your own? So much aligns with my view, doesn't it? But God is interested in the redemption of everything He made because He still wants all of it to be very good. That is why He made a covenant with the descendants of Abraham to be a Holy People. God spoke to all of Israel at Mount Sinai and through Moses gave them the commandments, which separated them from unholiness. They were given reminders and practices to separate various items and days as well as their character.
Moses Pleading with Israel (1907 Bible card, Providence Lithograph Company) Bless Israel and Receive Blessings, Click Now These separations showed the world what is holy from unholy; clean from unclean. But the people also sinned, so God later gave them judges and then kings to guide, rule, protect, and deliver this chosen nation. Ultimately He sent their Jewish Messiah — Yeshua — to spiritually redeem not only them, but His whole creation of mankind. However, In Greek thinking, Plato introduced the idea that the spiritual world is good and the physical world is bad. This means that the soul (our reasoning and thinking ability) is good. But the body (our five senses for example) cannot be relied on. And that means Scripture cannot be read for its simple and plain meaning. Image of Orthodox Jewish man reading at the Western Wall.
Reading Scripture Like the Greek Plato Would The church theologian Clement of Alexandria in the early 3rd century picked up on Plato’s idea that we cannot trust what we see or read with our own eyes and applied that to how we understand the Bible. Clement’s teachings influenced the theologian Augustine in the 4th century who formalized the idea that behind the Holy-Spirit-inspired words of Scripture was an allegory or layers of deep meanings. As an example, Augustine supported the birth of Yeshua on the winter solstice day of December 25 when pagans were celebrating the birthday of their “sun” god. The day was known as dies solis invicti nati (day of the birth of the unconquered sun). Augustine found deeper meaning in associating Yeshua's birth with the winter solstice by saying, “He [Jesus] who bent low and lifted us up chose the shortest day, when light begins to increase.” (Sermon 192) Celebrating Yeshua’s birth on the winter solstice has made it even more difficult to share the Jewish Yeshua with the Jewish People because they see Him as the “Christian pagan Jesus” — no different than the pagan Greek gods. Sadly, the only people fit for positions of authority in the church were those who had been trained to reason and think in such philosophical terms. This allegorical and philosophical approach to interpreting Scripture is called Neo-Platonism. It contributed to the idea that only clergy could tell the people what the Bible said. That led to only one official translation of the Bible for the Western Church, which the priests read to the people in one official church language—Latin.
Jerome completed the official Latin version of the Bible known as the Vulgate in AD 405. Above is the prologue of the Gospel of St. John in the 1592 version of the Vulgate, commissioned by Pope Clementine VIII (1922 reprint). We are very grateful for all sponsorships.
Rob, please ask the Lord (Adonai) if you should sponsor a Chapter of our Bible or a Messianic Prophecy, Jewish Evangelism & Translation into 184 languages
sponsor a Bible Chapter or Prophecy
The Holy, Isolated Spiritual Life The way to become holy with a worldview where only spirituality is good and the physical is not good is to hide oneself away from the big bad world, as Plato might call it. This belief in solitude contributed to the time known as the Dark Ages, which began with the Fall of the Roman Empire around AD 450. During these years, the Church clergy and others turned inward with the rapid growth of a monastic, solitary lifestyle movement. The light of God could scarcely be found. Those who kept away from the world, living a separate kind of spiritual existence were viewed as spiritually superior to those who were daily involved with the world. Image shows a hermit man between two rocks in the desert with a halo around his head. The Christian monastery evolved from the aesthetic lifestyle of the “Desert Fathers and Mothers” who lived mostly in the deserts of Egypt and Syria, beginning in the 3rd century AD. They renounced the pleasures of the five senses and worldly possessions. (Illustration: AD 985 from the church booklet Menologion of Basil II) These monastic Christians certainly loved God, as they understood Him. They supported themselves by selling handmade goods and trading with locals. And they produced much devotional literature read by Christians to this day. But their separation from society and even each other doesn’t line up with a down-to-earth Savior, who both communed alone with God and spent time with fishermen, his family and friends, and even tax collectors and prostitutes. As well, we know that Yeshua engaged in discussion and debate with the religious leaders, since the age of 12! Similarly, in the Jewish Beit Midrash (House of Learning), we find fellowship and lively discussion, even debates over spiritual topics among students and their rabbis (teachers).
Orthodox Jewish men studying together. Help Us Share Yeshua with Jewish people, click now Although students look up to their Rabbi as a tzadik (righteous one), who has attained more holiness than themselves, the Rabbi is still approachable and willing to discuss and debate issues. In the days of the apostles, we see the formation of elders and deacons, those who shepherd and teach others. Their authority was respected and honored as well, but they were not separated from the people, as Greek thought would dictate. They were intimately involved in serving the people (Acts 6:1–6). Likewise, Yeshua called His disciples to be actively engaged in the world, fulfilling His Great Commission: “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” (Matthew 28:19–20) This can be easier said than done, for certain. So, how did Rabbi Shaul (Apostle Paul) persuade some Greek mindsets to think Hebraically about Yeshua?
The Apostle Paul (c. 1657), by Rembrandt
Living the Holy, Engaged Spiritual Life Paul was so accustomed to both the Hebrew faith and Greek academia, he knew how to build bridges between the two to reveal the supernatural truth of God and Messiah Yeshua. As one example, Socrates once considered how death might be like the most pleasant night of undisturbed sleep. He said, “Now if death is like this, I say that to die is gain [kerdos in Greek].” And when Socrates considered how death might mean he would see the great philosophers like Homer, he said, “Let me die again and again” (as recorded by Plato in The Apology of Socrates). The Jewish Apostle Paul no doubt knew this about Socrates and used his thoughts on what might happen after death to explain a far greater revelation that the Greeks could never fathom on their own: He said that “Messiah will be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death. For me, to live is Messiah and to die is gain [kerdos]” (Philippians 1:21). Paul’s words would have been difficult for a Jewish Israeli to grasp, which is why the Apostle Peter warned that in Paul’s letters “are some things hard to understand” (2 Peter 3:16). But a typical Greek who grew up reading and studying Socrates would immediately understand that whether Paul lives or dies, knowing Messiah is far more advantageous, profitable, and gainful (kerdos) to him than meeting any philosopher Socrates could ever hope for. And it’s far better than any pleasant night’s sleep. Living and dying is advantageous only in Messiah.
Yeshua Teaches the Disciples to Pray, by James Tissot Each of us has a unique understanding of a particular group of people. Perhaps it’s a former religion or our ethnic culture. We know the lingo, the philosophy of life, the way of living. We can build bridges with these people as Paul did with the Greeks and Romans. This does not mean we merge non-Biblical traditions and thinking with God’s ways. Rather, we help unbelievers understand God’s ways using their own life experiences. Paul explained it this way: “To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Messiah’s law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some” (1 Corinthians 9:21–22).
end quote"
Rob" Paul could argue Hebrew thinking and Greek thinking, hence why He preached and taught the Greeks. Jeff Benner teaches us to think more like Hebrews and less like Greeks. I agree.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 24, 2021 8:43:59 GMT -5
R" Does plurality mean Dave, that elohiym has more than one strong authority? ie other judges, Aaron and Moses, for example? And here "Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me". No other elohiym's before me. Wasn't Dagon a chief deity among a family of deities?
Plurality = more than one Yes Robert – there is more than just one being in the heavens
H430 – אֱלֹהִים - Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
gods in the ordinary sense – Yes – Dogon and 32 more mentioned in the ahl specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God – Trinity and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates – We do this in English all the time – The doctor likes to play God. Who died and made you God? That politician thinks he’s God.
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Regarding your history of how the Bible came to us. Hmm? Not my history – it is just history
Can't GOD preserve His word to His people? Is it really necessary to have all the right words, rather just have the right message and live to it as best as we can?
Question – what is God’s word? You make the claim that the only valid word from God is your KJV Received Text I make the point – the KJV is anything but perfect – it is not the only version – it is actually fraught with controversy
You make the point – it is the only “received text” I make the point – you mean received by Roman authority
You say – to word pick from the KJV and then force Hebrew to behave I say – which words – whose version – which language –from what time period?
You say – you have an entire religion built upon on word I am just to demonstrate to you just how amazingly stupid that is
Specifically do you have a point? You say you study Hebrew – yet you use the Greek KJV And that Greek KJV was originally written by – someone on the Roman index So the author of your KJV is both a heretic and you should never read his writing according to Rome WOW – I see where the SDA get their ability to flip flop
Specifically do you have a point? You say you study God’s word NO you don’t you study the Roman Edit left to you by Roman Catholicism Hook – Line – and Sinker
Psa 8:5 (KJV) For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, … PLEASE SHOW ME YOUR HEBREW! – it does not exist
Are you saying our Bibles have differences enough to leave out the messages of salvation? I am trying my best to have an intelligent discussion WHY WOULD YOU EVEN SAY SUCH A THING - -Christian Is this the comeback of a fellow serious student of the word of God – or childish trash talk on a playground.
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness,
God measures us by the light we live up to....getting words perfectly correct, ie you need for word perfection with satan and satanas for example, is an example....surely God has preserved His messages?
God measures us by the light we live up to – NO WAY JOSE We are measured by the law written in our hearts – the Torah – taught to us by God Himself within the womb
getting words perfectly correct – Why aren’t you just Catholic it was first ? Why aren’t you Lutheran it was second. Why aren’t you’re a Calvinist he was next. Why aren’t you a reformist. In fact you are an Ellen Whitist and she was among the last. If it does not matter if you get the words right – why aren’t you a Mormon or Jehovah’s Witness
surely God has preserved His messages? – the message is the Gospel – the Gospel is an oral message – what was later written down as the Gospel was Edited by Rome – Limited by Rome – Rome picked and choose which writing got into the agl
I am here to claim- that Rome editied any reference of the archon The Prayer of Paul – what is wrong with it – why should a Christian never read it? Because it say – tell me what no archon ear has heard
Why is the writing of John, Peter, Thomas, James, and Phillip banned by Rome? Weren’t they the disciple of Jesus Christ?
Why would Rome do this – they picked and chose the writing that supported their version of Christianity – the doctrine of Fallen Angels that push God around because God is weak
Specifically do you have a point? I would never bet my soul on one word! Scripture say – precept upon precept, line upon line Scripture validates itself – over and over the same messages are taught over and over Any doctrine built upon a single word is error! -----------------------------------------
How much different is the Lengingrad Codex compared to other codex, in terms of salvation messages, the most important thing to Christians walking with Jesus? missing sentences, spelling errors, omissions, Hmm? yes, but can I be saved from what messages I have already?
Belief is all that is required to be saved – and I’ll see you at the First resurrection If you are fulfilled by being a good little Jehovah’s Witness or Mormon boy – go for it Proportional Punishment awaits us all – who miss the Promised Divine Pardon Belief is not the same thing as being Born Again – First fruits ----------------
Whatever Christian denomination you belong to (or non-denominational church or Messianic congregation), the way you understand and live out God’s Word are likely influenced by Greek thought. The early Greek philosophers, such as Socrates and Plato in the 5th century BC, introduced the world to valuable concepts such as logic, reason, and textual criticism that heavily influenced the early Church in ways we are still uncovering.
POINT – 5th century is long after the First Christian wrote their text for the Nag Hammadi POINT - valuable concepts such as logic, reason, and textual criticism – are impotent and it sure did not begin with Rome – the Jewish Kabbalah long predates Rome
How does the Hebraic mindset differ from the Greek when it comes to understanding God’s Word and living a holy Christian life?
In traditional Hebraic culture, everything is meant to be holy. God created the entire physical world and He declared it to be “good.” After He made mankind, He declared it to be “very good” (Genesis 1:25, 31). YES – it is tov and still is tov – God’s creation / Nature
Continuing to Genesis 3, the man and woman sinned, and we now live in a fallen world. Correct – the world is now fallen because of Rome 5:12 Sin entered the world and all men are sinners – it is man that pollutes the word
The world is Tov - because it is exactly as God designed it - Illteligent design God place man in the world and it is still tov God gave man a commandment - and it is still tov man disobeyed God / Transgressed God's law - now sin is in the world Nature is still tov - nature did not sin - man did Now there is God's percect nature with sinful man in it
I have a perfect glass of water Then a fly sits in it - the galss of water is spoiled - the the water itself is unharmed Can I say I have a spoiled glass of water - sure / yes / of course
Rob" Care to explain how this Messanic view is different from your own? So much aligns with my view, doesn't it? No – you say that all creation changed – You say that only after Adam sinned were the animals allowed to obey God and be fruitful and multiply You say the physical biology of many creatures changed that very minute – lions grew fangs and claws – sharks finally grew teeth – and thorns and thistle were created on Day 7
But God is interested in the redemption of everything He made because He still wants all of it to be very good. That is why He made a covenant with the descendants of Abraham to be a Holy People. YEP – for man – mankind – the covenant is with man And this is why the ahl was written to man – for man – about man
These separations showed the world what is holy from unholy; clean from unclean. YEP – knowledge between tov and ra
But the people also sinned, so God later gave them judges and then kings to guide, rule, protect, and deliver this chosen nation.
However, In Greek thinking, Plato introduced the idea that the spiritual world is good and the physical world is bad. This is ancient Gnostic thought – spiritual is the incorruptible and the physical is the corruptible The Great Red Dragon = physical creation waiting to consume / devour I.E. – matter = corruption – one step However – the Nag Hammadi – which is First Century Messianic Jewish says the First Archon was simply the first sentient within physical creation I.E. matter is created – then the first sentient made with that matter – 2 steps
This means that the soul (our reasoning and thinking ability) is good. But the body (our five senses for example) cannot be relied on. The soul is not our brain – the soul is the spirit with is providing our conscious – the part that knows better
And that means Scripture cannot be read for its simple and plain meaning. Jewish – 5 levels of understanding The Surface level is the surface – scripture means exactly what it says – but scripture is words to the total message There is another layer of understanding deeper than the surface Under that is yet another layer of truth
And that means Scripture cannot be read for its simple and plain meaning. Here I will disagree - the message of salvation is not a secret or a mystery - it is spelled right out there for even the simplest of minds to read and understand
Reading Scripture Like the Greek Plato Would The church theologian Clement of Alexandria in the early 3rd century picked up on Plato’s idea that we cannot trust what we see or read with our own eyes and applied that to how we understand the Bible. POINT Clement is a Coptic not a Roman Catholic
Clement’s teachings influenced the theologian Augustine in the 4th century who formalized the idea that behind the Holy-Spirit-inspired words of Scripture was an allegory or layers of deep meanings. Augustine of Hippo is a Roman Catholic Saint As an example, Augustine supported the birth of Yeshua on the winter solstice day of December 25 when pagans were celebrating the birthday of their “sun” god. YES – Roman Catholic Augustine taught the pagan religion of Tammuz as Christianity BINGO – THANK YOU – ROMAN CRAP!
Who changed the First Century Messianic Judaism of the disciples into the pagan Tammuz religion of Rome Rome did as early as the 4th century I have been screaming this to you since day 1
Augustine found deeper meaning in associating Yeshua's birth with the winter solstice by saying, “He [Jesus] who bent low and lifted us up chose the shortest day, when light begins to increase.” (Sermon 192) YES – one word – one verse – alone and be corrupted into almost anything Even an entire doctrine of fallen angels over a single word – Straight out of Rome
Celebrating Yeshua’s birth on the winter solstice has made it even more difficult to share the Jewish Yeshua with the Jewish People because they see Him as the “Christian pagan Jesus” — no different than the pagan Greek gods.
YES- Roman Edit – to dejudaise the Christian faith – Canon 29 Councile of Lydeocea Change Messianic Judaism into Roman Catholicism with it satan god AND - to sweeten the pot - after 313 AD many Roman priest were given power and wealth by the Roman government Some historians agrue - this was autuistic of Rome - supporting the new offical religion Easy - you support the emperor and he will give you land for a church
Sadly, the only people fit for positions of authority in the church were those who had been trained to reason and think in such philosophical terms. The better answer is – sadly, only those who would agree to tote the Roma party line – are allowed to stay My dad would say - those that kissed Roma's ass
It contributed to the idea that only clergy could tell the people what the Bible said. That led to only one official translation of the Bible for the Western Church, which the priests read to the people in one official church language—Latin. 100% Roman Edit - and while the Roman Church would not allow you to read it The Coptics already had the hexopla as early as the 2nd century
The Holy, Isolated Spiritual Life The way to become holy with a worldview where only spirituality is good and the physical is not good is to hide oneself away from the big bad world, as Plato might call it.
Clarification – Hasidic Jews – spiritual Jews – Chabad.org / Rabbi Friedman / Jerusalem Institute for Hebrew Studies – say Christians preach heaven is the goal – to selfishly get yourself into heaven Jews say - What is man assignment / purpose / commission – Jer 1:5 We cannot do that from heaven – (Eve could not do it from paradice)- we need to be here in order to selflessly witness to others
This belief in solitude contributed to the time known as the Dark Ages, which began with the Fall of the Roman Empire around AD 450. OH YA Christ came to the world and preached the Gospel – to enlighten the world Rome took over the religion and man entered the Dark Ages The light of God could scarcely be found.
During these years, the Church clergy and others turned inward with the rapid growth of a monastic, solitary lifestyle movement. Hmmm? I know what is being said – however between you and me they have condensed a lot of history into a single sentence
Council of Chalcedon The Egyptian faction of the Christian walked away from the Council – leaving Rome in power The Egyptians said – there can me no mix of church and state The Egyptians return to Egypt = the Coptic Church Many of them withdrew even farther to seek God alone and in silence Monasticism was originally created in Egypt by the Coptic Church
This was copied by Pope Gregory the 1st in Rome as a way to breed obedient clergy Gregorian Monks You just never studied the Coptic Church before - with all your Roman Christendom education - you didn't know it existed
Those who kept away from the world, living a separate kind of spiritual existence were viewed as spiritually superior to those who were daily involved with the world. By who – Rome? Jews say - What is man assignment / purpose / commission – Jer 1:5 We cannot do that from heaven – we need to be here in order to selflessly witness to others
These monastic Christians certainly loved God, as they understood Him. But their separation from society and even each other doesn’t line up with a down-to-earth Savior, who both communed alone with God and spent time with fishermen, his family and friends, and even tax collectors and prostitutes.
Correct - Jews say - What is man assignment / purpose / commission – Jer 1:5 We cannot do that from heaven – we need to be here in order to selflessly witness to others But the monastery was supposed to used a a quiet place of study without distraction – they were the first Christian colleges / seminaries
This is 100% Jewish – (google) What is a Nazarite according to the Bible? Nazirite, (from Hebrew nazar, “to abstain from,” or “to consecrate oneself to”), among the ancient Hebrews, a sacred person whose separation was most commonly marked by his uncut hair and his abstinence from wine.
Paul was a Nazarite - John the Babtist was a Nazarite seperate - alone with God - just you and Him one on one - full service to the lord
(google) What is the purpose of the Nazarite vow? To dedicate and make oneself holy to God. To dedicate and make oneself holy to God. "There were different reasons for taking the Nazirite vow.
Likewise, Yeshua called His disciples to be actively engaged in the world, fulfilling His Great Commission: “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” (Matthew 28:19–20)
YEP - Correct - Jews say - What is man assignment / purpose / commission – Jer 1:5 We cannot do that from heaven – we need to be here in order to selflessly witness to others
However - we are all called differently - some are the hands - some are the feet The Narazite Monks transcribed and preserved God written word
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2021 4:33:30 GMT -5
Really nice answers Dave,
Just two questions, things I am really interested in, than the others...
Was Jesus in your opinion a Narazite?
D"Here I will disagree - the message of salvation is not a secret or a mystery - it is spelled right out there for even the simplest of minds to read and understand
What is, in your opinion the message of salvation, please add Bible verses too, I would hate to be reading the Scripture wrong on such an important issue.
Shalom
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