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Post by Dave on Aug 25, 2021 11:47:24 GMT -5
Was Jesus in your opinion a Narazite? No opinion required – Jesus was a wine drinker and there is no record of him doing the required sacrifices of a Nazarite.
D- the message of salvation is not a secret or a mystery - it is spelled right out there for even the simplest of minds to read and understand
What is, in your opinion the message of salvation, please add Bible verses too, I would hate to be reading the Scripture wrong on such an important issue.
I am a Gnostic Christian– a Messianic Jew want-a-be I began as a typical Roman Christian – with typical Roman beliefs
To say salvation requires accepting Jesus Christ – as the Christ Messiah – then to ask male Him / the female Comforter – to enter my body and guide me from within = a guaranteed pass on the Lake of Fire
And many are called – but only a few are chosen
Makes salvation a very small private club and allows the Baptist church to preach fire and brimstone because God is Love – but most of the masses are just going to burn in eternal hell fire.
Beliefs change – the Christian only - my way is the only way - is just arrogant doctrine ----------- Gnostic teaching number one - Recognize what is in your sight.
Psa 19:2 The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky shows His handiwork.
Rom 1:19 because what can be known about God is plain to them—for God has shown it to them. Rom 1:20 His invisible attributes—His eternal power and His divine nature—have been clearly seen ever since the creation of the world, being understood through the things that have been made. So people are without excuse—
No excuse to recognize that there is a Creator – a Supreme Being – God – the Father of the All We all ARE part of the host of heaven – in the end - and all the host of heaven was created on Day 1 We were in heaven with God – we were in the garden with Adam And From God we come into this physical souljourn God teaches us all the Torah within the womb – all of us
There was no teaching for Abraham to follow except – except what his soul already knew Abraham did a Pas 19:2 and Rm 1:19 and REMEMBERED what he already knew from birth Abraham was awakened to the reality of God It happens to all of us at one time or another in our lives (yester tov) keeps suggesting it
A pigmy in a jungle somewhere can have the exact same revelation – we all can – sitting on a mountain top breathing in God’s creation is a church sermon.
Christians teach Christ is God – therefore belief in God is belief in Christ Heb 9:27 And just as it is appointed for men to die once, and after this judgment,
Part of me believes that when we wake up on the other side and are presented with the truth – of course we will believe
Definition of terms Robert What is the difference between Christian salvation and Jewish redemption?
salvation 1. preservation or deliverance from harm, ruin, or loss.
redemption 1. the action of saving or being saved from sin, error, or evil. "God's plans for the redemption of his world" Similar: saving, saving/freeing from sin, vindication, absolution
2. the action of regaining or gaining possession of something in exchange for payment, or clearing a debt. Similar: retrieval, recovery, reclamation, repossession
If I am a Jew – I already have a birth right, but YOM KIPPUR I need redemption for my chata Mitzvah vrs chata – a score board - +/- I am not perfect, but I am not all that bad Each of us will be ashamed of our score embarrassed before all of heaven – that’s hell Some have a lot to be ashamed of – others have less – PRORORTIONAL
The Rabbis story is that when we get to heaven we stink of sin – it takes time for the smell to wear off
Scripture says in many places the idea of – earthly clothing being exchanged for heavenly garments As in – out earthly clothing is stained with sin Our earthly clothes are washed / purified by Proportional Punishment Or exchanged – old clothes thrown away for new
Also – Judaism teaches the Divine Pardon – Enoch, Elisha, and Joshua in Zec 3 Also – Judaism as a caveat for reincarnation – a do over
In Judaism this has never been an exclusive Jewish club - many non-Jews were “saved” in the ahl
Proportional Punishment
Luk 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Heb 10:29 How much more severe do you think the punishment will be for the one who has trampled Ben-Elohim underfoot, and has regarded as unholy the blood of the covenant by which he was made holy, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Rom 2:6 He will pay back each person according to his deeds.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead—the great and the small—standing before the throne. The books were opened, and another book was opened—the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what was written in the books, according to their deeds.
Deeds – good deeds vrs evil / selfish deeds Works – our witness – what is it that we support – what we preach – how well did we Jer 1:5 Fruit – bring others to the Lord
Judaism as a caveat for reincarnation – a do over Elijah is the witness of the first coming of Christ, Elijah reincarnated as John the Baptist Jews still set an empty plate for Elisha at the Seder meal
Judaism teaches the Divine Pardon – Enoch, Elisha, and Joshua in Zec 3
Zec 3:1 Then he showed me Joshua the kohen gadol standing before the angel of Adonai and the satan, standing at his right hand to accuse him. Zec 3:2 Adonai said to the satan, ‘Adonai rebukes you, the satan. Indeed Adonai, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebukes you. Is not this man a brand plucked out of the fire?’ Zec 3:3 Now Joshua was wearing filthy garments and standing before the angel Zec 3:4 who answered and spoke to those standing before him saying, ‘Remove the filthy garments from him.’ Then to Joshua he said, ‘See, I have removed your iniquity from you and will dress you with fine clothing.’ Zec 3:5 Then I said, ‘Place a clean turban on his head.’ So they put a pure turban on his head and clothed him with garments while the angel of Adonai stood by. Zec 3:6 The angel of Adonai exhorted Joshua saying: Zec 3:7 ‘Thus says Adonai-Tzva’ot, “If you will walk in My ways and keep My charge, then you will judge My House and watch over My courts and I will give you a place to walk among these standing here.
Joshua is in judgment Hebrew satan – the prosecutor – is right there to accuse Joshua God speaks up and says – stop prosecution – I give Joshua a Divine Pardon God plucks Joshua out of the fire like a hot coal And Joshua was given new clothing – heavenly clothing
redemption 2. the action of regaining or gaining possession of something in exchange for payment, or clearing a debt. Similar: retrieval, recovery, reclamation, repossession What does a Jew regain? His rightful place back among the host of heaven (spiritual man Adamus the Perfect Race of man) – to regain what was lost through sin
Let’s make it Christian Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
The Divine Pardon has always been available to the deserving But the 1% had the only real story and had the greatest opportunity
The ahl is a primer text – it is about nation against nations and their gods (sure the personal story is there – it is always there) but God’s chosen people were to witness God to the world and prepare it for the Messiah
First they did this by – walking with God and being successful against all odds – or falling for the gods and traditions of the enemies (Jud 2:1-4)
They also did it by parade = 6 times a years they stopped and dressed up to put on a parade From the begging – do I need to atone? – God tabernacles with man twice – salvation is by the Lord – Passover, Passover, Passover = Pentecost the Harvest
163 BC The Maccabean revolt – restored Judaism – rededicated the Temple = Chaunaka
Jesus is born during the reign of King Herod – and rose from the dead
Christians can go on and on about the blood of redemption and the Lamb of God and how the blood washes away sin – ya sure – all good – all correct in some way
But the Point is the Resurrection – validation of the spiritual reality all around us And Christ offers the forgiveness of sin necessary to join Him and serve Him as host in heaven
Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and people sat upon them—those to whom authority to judge was given. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Yeshua and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image, nor had they received his mark on their forehead or on their hand. And they came to life and reigned with the Messiah for a thousand years. Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
John saw two different groups in heaven the souls of those – now serving in heavens as judges – First Fruits Before the First resurrection
Who are the First resurrection? The saved to reign with Christ
What are the two groups – those who were on the front lines for God here on earth are those that are serving God in heaven – First Those that have received the Divine Pardon
In Christianity these are the Born Again – those who die in Christ – those who serve Him on the front line on earth – John Chapter 3 = Niccodemus - Paul on the road to Damascus ---------------------
D- the message of salvation is not a secret or a mystery - it is spelled right out there for even the simplest of minds to read and understand
Gnostic teaching number one - Recognize what is in your sight. - Psa 19:2 - Rom 1:19-20 There is only One True God
Once you know of the Gospel – do you accept it or not So many folk will they believe in the Good Message – bust Jesus? Then man has changed the One and Only Jesus Christ into 2500 denominations Folk join church A and just drink their Kool Aid Other folk go to church B – different doctrine – church C also different Each one promising to be the only way
Finally – Christianity has been divided – diluted and polluted And the Christian message has been –dilute and pollute – to: If there is a God – does he care or is he weak Why does he allow all the pain and suffering in the world
All of them self-proclaimed believers – all of them saved and destined for Proportional Punishment Each man acceding to his deeds, works, and our fruit
Most of them reclaimed by Christ at the First Resurrection (unlike my Baptist friends that preach most will burn in hell with the exception of a few) Most are saved – few are Born Again believing First Fruits
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise, as some consider slowness. Rather, He is being patient toward you—not wanting anyone to perish, but for all to come to repentance.
The Exegesis on the Soul - The Nag Hammadi Library Therefore the savior cries out (Jn 6:44), "No one can come to me unless my Father draws him and brings him to me; and I myself will raise him up on the last day."
It is therefore fitting to pray to the father and to call on him with all our soul - not externally with the lips, but with the spirit, which is inward, which came forth from the depth - sighing; repenting for the life we lived; confessing our sins; perceiving the empty deception we were in, and the empty zeal; weeping over how we were in darkness and in the wave; mourning for ourselves, that he might have pity on us; hating ourselves for how we are now.
Again the savior said (cf Mt 5:4, Lk 6:12): "Blessed are those who mourn, for it is they who will be pitied; blessed, those who are hungry, for it is they who will be filled."
Again he said (cf. Lk 14:26), "If one does not hate his soul he cannot follow me." For the beginning of salvation is repentance. Therefore (cf. Acts 13:24), "Before Christ`s appearance came John, preaching the baptism of repentance."
And repentance takes place in distress and grief. But the father is good and loves humanity, and he hears the soul that calls upon him and sends it the light of salvation. Therefore he said through the spirit to the prophet (cf. 1 Cl 8:3), "Say to the children of my people, 'If your sins extend from earth to heaven, and if they become red like scarlet and blacker than sackcloth, and if you return to me with all your soul and say to me 'my Father!', I will heed you as a holy people.'"
Again another place (Is 30:15), "Thus says the lord, the holy one of Israel: "If you return and sigh, then you will be saved and will know where you were when you trusted in what is empty."
Again he said in another place (Is 30:19-20), "Jerusalem wept much, saying, 'Have pity on me.' He will have pity on the sound of your weeping. And when he saw, he heeded you. And the lord will give you bread of affliction and water of oppression. From now on, those who deceive will not approach you again. Your eyes will see those who are deceiving you."
Therefore it is fitting to pray to God night and day, spreading out our hands towards him as do people sailing in the middle of the sea: they pray to God with all their heart without hypocrisy. For those who pray hypocritically deceive only themselves. Indeed, it is in order that he might know who is worthy of salvation that God examines the inward parts and searches the bottom of the heart. For no one is worthy of salvation who still loves the place of deception.
Why is life hard - Gen 3:15 - Whay are the archon in your face? repentance takes place in distress and grief.
Christ also called his followers – receive the Comforter Not to believe with your mind and brain or your physical senses – but to be Born Again of Spirit To walk and talk with God as Abraham did – a two way conversation
Can I heal the sick – NO – only Christ can through me
Jas 5:13 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praises. Jas 5:14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of Messiah’s community, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. Jas 5:15 The prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
Can I steady my nerves enough to gladly jump into the fire – No – only Christ can And if I am persecuted for doing my assignment / commission / job and questioned by the best of them – can I understands God’s Will / Plan adequately to defend the Lord – no, I am just a man
Mat 10:18 You will be brought before governors and kings because of Me, as a witness to them and to the Gentiles. Mat 10:19 But when they hand you over, do not worry about how or what you should say, for it shall be given to you in that hour what you should say. Mat 10:20 For it is not you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.
Gnosticism – is the call to be more than just a believer in a religion Gnosticism is the call to be spiritual Christian – Born Again spirit to spirit The Nag Hammadi says we shouldn’t just believe in Christ – we are to become a Christ
Christ came to earth from God – witnessed the living Gospel to man – He generated fruit - died for his fellow man – and returned to God
Jesus told us to : Love one another as He has loved us Love your fellow man to desire to save his soul – help him find God And no greater love hath a man – than one who lays his life down for another Why – so the others still have the opportunity to be saved by my witness
The Cathars gladly threw themselves into the fire - the Roman soldiers at the scene were so shocked many of the deserted so afterwards Rome tried feeding them to the lions – instead they made martyrs Rome tried killing Protestants – instead they made martyrs How many missionaries gave their lives to witness?
Today – Islam hates Israel – so they behead Christians – everyone a martyr
And all of them First Fruits
Salvation is the easy part - all it requires is belief in God Belief in Christ as the Messiah is a blessing and a reward awaits you in heaven If you generate Fruits as a Christian even better - To become a Born Again - Christ Filled Christian is the goal - Prodigal Son To lay your life down for another as a witness for the Lord is to be a Christ
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2021 13:57:03 GMT -5
Greetings Dave, this is a good post, but I have many questions to ask, as I am a details person, so please bear with me, as we explore the salvation message further.
D"Salvation is the easy part - all it requires is belief in God
R" What is belief and how do you get more and more of this belief?
D"Born Again spirit to spirit
R" What does being born again spirit to spirit mean to you?
D"To say salvation requires accepting Jesus Christ – as the Christ Messiah – then to ask male Him / the female Comforter – to enter my body and guide me from within = a guaranteed pass on the Lake of Fire
R" What purpose is the HS part of your salvation message, to enter your body and guide you?
Why is your end goal, to escape the Lake of Fire? Is not God love, therefore not fear?
D"Recognize what is in your sight. - Psa 19:2 - Rom 1:19-20 There is only One True God
R" How can you see GOD, if God is invisible?
D" to regain what was lost through sin
R" What was lost when Adam sinned? Hence must be regained?
D"If you generate Fruits as a Christian even better - R" you mean it's not really necessary to have fruits to be saved?
D"To lay your life down for another as a witness for the Lord is to be a Christ
R" you speak much of martyrs. How and why do we become martyrs?
D"Why is life hard - Gen 3:15 - Why are the archon in your face?
R" Why is life hard when you accept the salvation message? Why do you assume archons are always in your face? What does tribulation mean to you and why does trouble come to us?
D"Most of them reclaimed by Christ at the First Resurrection (unlike my Baptist friends that preach most will burn in hell with the exception of a few) Most are saved – few are Born Again believing First Fruits
R" I read confusion here, please detail what you're writing here?
D"Proportional Punishment R" Why are you exposed to Proportional Punishment, if you are saved by Jesus? Scriptures for this idea.
D" Why are saved smell of sin, if you are saved by Jesus? Does not atonement remove all trace of sinning?
D"And Joshua was given new clothing – heavenly clothing R" what does heavenly clothing refer to?
D"What does a Jew regain? His rightful place back among the host of heaven (spiritual man Adamus the Perfect Race of man) – to regain what was lost through sin
R" What was lost through sin? Prove that Adamus exists in the Scriptures?
D"all the host of heaven was created on Day 1 R" Prove all humans were created on Day 1, to me from Scripture R" Prove all the angels were created on Day 1, to me from Scripture R" Prove all other universes were also were created on Day 1, to me from Scripture R" Prove all other unfallen beings were created on Day 1, to me from Scripture
D"we were in the garden with Adam R" Prove that all humans are in Eden when Adam and Eve, physically there were two only humans in Eden?
D"God teaches us all the Torah within the womb – all of us R" What does this mean?
D"Beliefs change – the Christian only - my way is the only way - is just arrogant doctrine R" Do beliefs really change? Scripture says I change not. Please explain.
D"Jesus was a wine drinker and there is no record of him doing the required sacrifices of a Nazarite. R" What about a partial Nazarite, enough from birth to age 8?
D"most of the masses are just going to burn in eternal hell fire. R" Is there really an eternal hell fire for most humans?
Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
You can visit Sodom even to this day, as Ron Wyatt found, no eternal burning fire there? The burning is finite in time but the burnt is infinite in time.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 25, 2021 16:12:57 GMT -5
D"Salvation is the easy part - all it requires is belief in God R" What is belief and how do you get more and more of this belief? Belief and more belief Belief is based within the brain – you brain reasons that there must be a God – all the evidence tells you that God is real – therefore you believe
A Catholic can reason from the evidence to be Catholic A Baptist can reason from the evidence to be a Baptist A Mormon believes he is correct – and so does the SDA
But beliefs can change – Jews become SDA – SDA become Catholic – Sunday Christians just fall away
A Muslim believes that Allah is God and God has no son
All of these believers are saved – they all believe in God But they all believe in God Proportionally and will be judged Proportionally Regardless if you are pagan – Jewish – Muslim – or Christian
R" how do you get more and more of this belief? There is nothing wrong with strong conviction and holding to your belief as hard as you can Strong conviction also lead to religious zealot making wrong choices – suicide bombers – the only good Indian or Aborigine is a dead one – the INQUISTION was the result of strong convictions
Question is having a belief and holding it with the strongest of conviction = salvation NO – it is practicing a religion
In the lab we make a big deal about precision verse accuracy I can reproduce the wrong answer ever time with great precision- it just is not very accurate Think of a Gun or Bow and Arrow – 10 shots in a row all in a tight group – just nowhere near the bulls eye Great precision - lousy accuracy
D"Born Again spirit to spirit R" What does being born again spirit to spirit mean to you? This has always been a full part of spiritual Judaism – communing with the Lord – spirit to spirit – a two way conversation. Abraham, Daniel, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Moses
When the spirit touches you – you know and you remember You no longer believe – you know – you gnosis – all doubt vanished because you know/gnosis the truth
Joh 3:4 “How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus said to Him. “He cannot enter his mother’s womb a second time and be born, can he?” Joh 3:5 Yeshua answered, “Amen, amen I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. Joh 3:6 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. Joh 3:7 Do not be surprised that I said to you, ‘You all must be born from above.’ Joh 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” Joh 3:9 How can these things happen?” Nicodemus said. Joh 3:10 Yeshua answered him, “You’re a teacher of Israel and you do not understand these things? Joh 3:11 Amen, amen I tell you, We speak about what We know and testify about what We have seen. Yet you all do not receive Our testimony!
The last line is written for you and the SDA We speak about what We know and testify about what We have seen. Yet you all do not receive Our testimony! You deny the spirit - your belief prevents you
D"To say salvation requires accepting Jesus Christ – as the Christ Messiah – then to ask male Him / the female Comforter – to enter my body and guide me from within = a guaranteed pass on the Lake of Fire R Why is your end goal, to escape the Lake of Fire? Is not God love, therefore not fear? This is my version of what Christian Churches teach – believe and save yourself – is a selfish plea
Jews – scripture says – we are here to witness – this is our function Cannot do our assignment in heaven – Eve could not do it from paradise If we are here serving the Lord – the rest takes care of itself To work on your own rewards = selfish The goal is to witness and generate fruit – others for the Lord If this is our walk – the rest takes care of itself James – no works = no faith
R" What purpose is the HS part of your salvation message, to enter your body and guide you? So that our witness is more effective – to help us with our assignments – our mission To empower us – so that we may serve the Lord in a greater capacity And - gifts - to allow the HS to work through us - healing, prophesying, teaching - to each his own calling - some are the feet - some are the hands - but there is only one Head
D"Recognize what is in your sight. - Psa 19:2 - Rom 1:19-20 There is only One True God R" How can you see GOD, if God is invisible? Romans 1:19-20 / Psa 19:2 – in the smile of a new born baby By the witness of another – or by the witness of an entire nation called Israel By the witness of Jesus Christ and His Resurrection All of the informantion / evidence is there for us to see - recognise what is in our sights
D" to regain what was lost through sin R" What was lost when Adam sinned? Hence must be regained? D"What does a Jew regain? His rightful place back among the host of heaven (spiritual man Adamus the Perfect Race of man) – to regain what was lost through sin R" What was lost through sin? Prove that Adamus exists in the Scriptures?
1st Book of Adam and Eve 8:1 THEN Adam wept and said, "O God, when we dwelt in the garden, and our hearts were lifted up, we saw the angels that sang praises in heaven, but now we do not see as we were used to do; nay, when we entered the cave, all creation became hidden from us."
2 Then God the Lord said unto Adam, "When thou wast under subjection to Me, thou hadst a bright nature within thee, and for that reason couldst thou see things afar off. But after thy transgression thy bright nature was withdrawn from thee; and it was not left to thee to see things afar off, but only near at hand; after the ability of the flesh; for it is brutish."
3 When Adam and Eve had heard these words from God, they went their way; praising and worshipping Him with a sorrowful heart.
D"If you generate Fruits as a Christian even better - R" you mean it's not really necessary to have fruits to be saved? No – only belief In the ahl – generating “Fruit” within the 99% was not the point In the ahl – the point was – the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the One True God
Was there fruit within the ahl – sure – Rahab – many others But that is not the lesson of the ahl
Fruit – is the call of Christianity To be the fruit – to seed new fruit – to harvest the fruit of the 100% - not just the 1%
Does this mean all non-Jewish peoples of the ahl are all damned ? – YES Damned to proportional Punishment – Deeds, works, and fruit Except they have no fruit – and their works are all ra (movement away from God) To each man his just due – Pagan, Jew, Christian, and Muslim
D"To lay your life down for another as a witness for the Lord is to be a Christ R" you speak much of martyrs. How and why do we become martyrs? If your life - is a living sacrifice in service to the Lord Do you have to die – Mother Teresa – St Francis – Joan of Ark – Martin Luther - were all living martyrs until they died.
D"Why is life hard – Gen 3:15 – man vrs world - Roman 5:12 – Why are the archon in your face? Gen 3:15 satan’s seed
R" Why is life hard when you accept the salvation message? Because now you know – the difference between tov and ra Paul Roman’s Chapter 7 – Miserable man that I am Now I gnosis – I am a worthless animal – and is cause me shame – conviction – when I am honest to the Lord on my knees
Why do you assume archons are always in your face? Because I am a believer As a sinner they can manipulate me as they manipulate the world – they do not have to be in my face – I am choosing to be lost all by myself
But – if I move toward piety (Job) – now the archon start feeding me doubt If I am touched by the Spirit – they are upon me full force – just like Paul My flesh wants – but the soul knows what you should do – CONSCIENCE
why does trouble come to us? = Rom 5:12 + Gen 3:15 + Deu 8:2
What does tribulation mean to you Tribulation is a sign of the end-of-days It is a very real thing - pestilence - wars - famines - earth quakes - tital waves Collapse of the system - social collapse on a global scale The cries of the affected will reach into heaven If God does not intervien - it might be the exstinction of humanity
I also believe it will be a periord of time where the Archon are once again amoung the people as hybrid creatures / rehiem / nephilim / giants - and possessing evil spirits
D"Most of them reclaimed by Christ at the First Resurrection (unlike my Baptist friends that preach most will burn in hell with the exception of a few) Most are saved – few are Born Again believing First Fruits R" I read confusion here, please detail what you're writing here? Most Christians teach – you must accept Jesus Christ as your savor before your mortal death or you will burn in hell fire for all eternity – this is a Christian only elite club – only for the few
Many were saved and first fruits long before Jesus Christ was born Did Moses die preaching Jesus Christ? Or Abraham? D "Proportional Punishment R" Why are you exposed to Proportional Punishment, if you are saved by Jesus? The difference between the First Fruits – Spiritual Christians – Paul, Enoch, Steven and those of the First Resurrection – an assortment of various beliefs and convictions
D" Why are saved smell of sin, if you are saved by Jesus? Does not atonement remove all trace of sinning? The difference between the First Fruits and believers
D"And Joshua was given new clothing – heavenly clothing R" what does heavenly clothing refer to? Earthly clothing are stained with sin – heavenly garments are white and pure without blemish 100% Scriptural / Jewish metaphor for salvation – washing away sin
D"all the host of heaven was created on Day 1 R" Prove all humans were created on Day 1, to me from Scripture Man and angels are the host of heaven Rev 20:4 All the host of heaven was created on day 1 Gen 2:1-3
D"we were in the garden with Adam R" Prove that all humans are in Eden when Adam and Eve, physically there were two only humans in Eden? Eden was in full view of all the heaven – as we are today They can see us – but we cannot see them
D"God teaches us all the Torah within the womb – all of us R" What does this mean? Gen 26:5 because Abraham listened to My voice and kept My charge, My mitzvot, My decrees, and My instructions.”
D"Jesus was a wine drinker and there is no record of him doing the required sacrifices of a Nazarite. R" What about a partial Nazarite, enough from birth to age 8?
Are you referring to Jesus being from the city of Nazareth? (google) Although born in Bethlehem, according to Matthew and Luke, Jesus was a Galilean from Nazareth, a village near Sepphoris, one of the two major cities of Galilee
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2021 5:24:51 GMT -5
D" All of these believers are saved – they all believe in God But they all believe in God Proportionally and will be judged Proportionally Regardless if you are pagan – Jewish – Muslim – or ChristianR" OK so this "believe thing" where is this found in the Bible as a salvation message? D" Question is having a belief and holding it with the strongest of conviction = salvation NO – it is practicing a religionR" OK so when does belief become a salvation message? D" Great precision - lousy accuracyR" OK so how does one improve the accuracy of belief? D" This has always been a full part of spiritual Judaism – communing with the Lord – spirit to spirit – a two way conversation.R" Oh? you mean God talks to you and you talk to God, via our conscience with His still small voice? D" When the spirit touches you – you know and you rememberR" What does this mean? the spirit touches you? you know and you remember? what ? D" The last line is written for you and the SDA We speak about what We know and testify about what We have seen. Yet you all do not receive Our testimony! You deny the spirit - your belief prevents youR" OK, so what am I missing? What exactly is preventing me? D" This is my version of what Christian Churches teach – believe and save yourself – is a selfish pleaR "I agree. It is selfish. I would rather you tell me what you think, not what others think. D" I f we are here serving the Lord – the rest takes care of itselfR" I see, how do we serve the Lord? DO we wait for the voice to tell us what to do? D" And - gifts - to allow the HS to work through us - healing, prophesying, teaching - to each his own calling R I see. nice idea., but is this Scriptural? I had a quick look, where does the HS empower us with gifts? I thought all gifts come from the Father of lights, not directly from the HS ? D" All of the information / evidence is there for us to see -R You are a science person like me, we deal with present what we see, not past from history. Science cannot validate the past, only the present. The only real evidence of GOD is what is revealed in nature and the still small voice of GOD via our conscience, administrated by the HS. D" but now we do not see as we were used to do "thy bright nature was withdrawn from theeR" correct. D" after the ability of the flesh; for it is brutish.R" Indeed, what we have lost in our unblemished physical nature. D" No – only beliefR" fruits not necessary, only belief? What is belief again so I have the salvation message? D" To be the fruit – to seed new fruit – to harvest the fruit of the 100% - not just the 1%R" you speak in confusion and riddles. Sorry I do not understand. D" Eden was in full view of all the heaven – as we are today They can see us – but we cannot see themR" ?I do not follow you RP" What about a partial Nazarite, enough from birth to age 8?D" Are you referring to Jesus being from the city of Nazareth?R" No , you will not understand me, because you do not understand a Great Controversy. Dave can you reply this time with Scripture verses please. This salvation message is vague. I am particularly interest in the belief thing you speak of , and the walking in the Spirit. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 26, 2021 12:32:43 GMT -5
D"All of these believers are saved – they all believe in God But they all believe in God Proportionally and will be judged Proportionally Regardless if you are pagan – Jewish – Muslim – or Christian R" OK so this "believe thing" where is this found in the Bible as a salvation message?Joh 5:24 “Amen, amen I tell you, whoever hears My word and trusts the One who sent Me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed over from death into life. 1Ti 4:10 (for to this end we work hard and strive): “We have set our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially those who trust.” Psa 62:2 My soul, wait in stillness, only for God—from Him comes my salvation. Psa 62:6 My soul, wait in stillness, only for God—for from Him comes my expectation. Psa 62:7 He alone is my rock and my salvation, my strong tower—I will not be moved. Psa 62:8 On God, my salvation and my glory is the rock of my strength. My refuge is in God. Psa 34:18 The righteous cry out and Adonai hears, and delivers them from all their troubles. Psa 34:19 Adonai is close to the brokenhearted, and saves those crushed in spirit. Psa 34:23 Adonai redeems the soul of His servants— no one who takes refuge in Him will be held guilty.Psa 25:5 Guide me in Your truth, and teach me, for You are God, my salvation, for You I wait all day. Guide me in Your truth, and teach me, for You are God, my salvation,YEP – belief in God = salvationJews, Christians, Pagans, Muslims, agnostics, Mormon, JW, Catholics, Gnostics, and SDA All you recognize what is in their sight – The is Only One True God D" Question is having a belief and holding it with the strongest of conviction = salvation NO – it is practicing a religionOn the one side we have the Jews – they believe what they believe – and have strong convictions On the other side – we have Islam - ditto On the sidelines we have – Western Christianity – ditto In the middle of it all we have – Syrian Christians and Coptic - ditto How about the Catholic Crusaders versus Jews and Islam – ditto All believe what they believe – and have strong convictions D" Question is having a belief and holding it with the strongest of conviction = salvation NO – it is practicing a religion – with zealR" OK so when does belief become a salvation message?You did not answer my question to you = you avoided taking a stand What is the difference between salvation and redemption?D"Great precision - lousy accuracy R" OK so how does one improve the accuracy of belief?By learning from the spirit – no man, not brain, not reason – just GodJoh 14:26 But the Helper, the Ruach ha-Kodesh whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you everything and remind you of everything that I said to you. youtu.be/EjIlhu-yuTID" This has always been a full part of spiritual Judaism – communing with the Lord – spirit to spirit – a two way conversation.R" Oh? you mean God talks to you and you talk to God, via our conscience with His still small voice?Mock away RobertD"When the spirit touches you – you know and you remember R" What does this mean? the spirit touches you? you know and you remember? what ?Oh Robert – if you have never felt the hand of God upon your heart – I cannot explian it to youD"The last line is written for you and the SDA We speak about what We know and testify about what We have seen. Yet you all do not receive Our testimony! You deny the spirit - your belief prevents you R" OK, so what am I missing? What exactly is preventing me?You mock – a spiritual relation – because your belief mandated that man has no spiritHow can you commune spirit to sppirit - or pray in the spirit - if you deny the spirit2Ki 6:15 Now when the attendant of the man of God had risen early and gone out, behold, an army with horses and chariots was surrounding the city. So his attendant said to him, “Alas, my master! What are we going to do?” 2Ki 6:16 “Fear not,” he replied, “for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.” 2Ki 6:17 Then Elisha prayed and said, “Adonai, please open his eyes that he may see.” Then Adonai opened the eyes of the young man and he saw, and behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha. 2Ki 6:18 When they came down to him, Elisha prayed to Adonai and said, “Please strike this people with blinding light.” So He struck them with blinding light according to the word of Elisha. 2Ki 6:19 Then Elisha said to them, “This is not the road, nor is this the city. Follow me, and I will lead you to the man whom you seek.” So he led them to Samaria. 2Ki 6:20 Upon their arrival in Samaria, Elisha said, “Adonai, open the eyes of these men, that they may see.” So Adonai opened their eyes, and they could see—behold, they were in the middle of Samaria. 2Ki 6:21 When the king of Israel saw them, he said to Elisha, “Shall I surely strike them down, Avi?” 2Ki 6:22 “Don’t strike them down,” he replied. “Would you strike down those whom you have captured with your own sword and bow? Set before them bread and water that they may eat and drink and go back to their master.” I believe the word of God - this is a real event - spiritualSet before them bread and water that they may eat and drink and go back to their masterPlease watch the Movie Amish Grace - YouTube - you and your wife ans all your fanmily ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/520/amish-grace?page=1&scrollTo=6180D" If we are here serving the Lord – the rest takes care of itself R" I see, how do we serve the Lord? DO we wait for the voice to tell us what to do?Jer 1:5 – it is our mission / our purpose upon the earth
You claim to be a Cristian – but ask – how do we serve the Lord?Why are we here Robert – what is the purpose of man – do you not know your own assignment? To generate fruit for the Lord D"And - gifts - to allow the HS to work through us - healing, prophesying, teaching - to each his own calling R I see. nice idea., but is this Scriptural? I had a quick look, where does the HS empower us with gifts? I thought all gifts come from the Father of lights, not directly from the HS ?There ya go = You deny the Spirit of God 1Co 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be ignorant. 1Co 12:2 You know that when you were pagans, you were enticed by idols that cannot speak, and you got led astray. 1Co 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Ruach Elohim says, “Yeshua be cursed,” and no one can say, “Yeshua is Lord,” except by the Ruach ha-Kodesh. 1Co 12:4 Now there are various kinds of gifts, but the same Ruach. 1Co 12:5 There are various kinds of service, but the same Lord. 1Co 12:6 There are various kinds of working, but the same God who works all things in all people. 1Co 12:7 But to each person is given the manifestation of the Ruach for the benefit of all. 1Co 12:8 For to one is given through the Ruach a word of wisdom, to another a word of knowledge according to the same Ruach, 1Co 12:9 to another faith by the same Ruach, to another gifts of healings by the one Ruach, 1Co 12:10 to another workings of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 1Co 12:11 But one and the same Ruach activates all these things, distributing to each person individually as He wills. One Body with Many Members 1Co 12:12 For just as the body is one and has many parts, and all the parts of the body—though many—are one body, so also is Messiah. 1Co 12:13 For in one Ruach we were all immersed into one body—whether Jewish or Greek, slave or free—and all were made to drink of one Ruach. D"All of the information / evidence is there for us to see - R You are a science person like me, we deal with present what we see, not past from history. Science cannot validate the past, only the present. So you also deny Psa 19:2 and Rom 1:19 – you deny scripture – it is all there for man to discover Intelligent Design You need to resist this because the world as we see and measure it only proves your satan to you To everyone else on the planet it speaks to an Intelligent DesignerYou are so busy denying everything – must keep you so busy / preoccupiedD"No – only belief R" fruits not necessary, only belief? What is belief again so I have the salvation message? D"To be the fruit – to seed new fruit – to harvest the fruit of the 100% - not just the 1% R" you speak in confusion and riddles. Sorry I do not understand.Because you chose toWhat is fruit? = Winning souls for the Lord! This is the calling of the Christian!No one in the ahl sent out missionaries to covert the pagan to Judaism – not their calling / mission The mission of the Jews in the ahl is to demonstrate to all the world that – the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the One True God! D"To be the fruit – to seed new fruit – to harvest the fruit of the 100% - not just the 1% Christians are the Fruit – we are the harvest It is no longer only a 1% thing – but open to the 100% R" you speak in confusion and riddles. Sorry I do not understand.You do not understand Christianity and the fruit of the believer – just what have you been taught? Are any of your views Christian?-D"Eden was in full view of all the heaven – as we are today They can see us – but we cannot see them R" ?I do not follow youIn Revelation 19:1-2, heaven’s inhabitants praise God for specific events of judgment taking place on earth. “Those on Earth may be ignorant of events in Heaven, but those in Heaven are not ignorant of events on Earth, at least some of these events.”RP" What about a partial Nazarite, enough from birth to age 8? R" No , you will not understand me, because you do not understand a Great Controversy. Luke (2:41–52) states that Jesus as a youth was precociously learned, but there is no other evidence of his childhood or early life. Explain it to me – Mathew says – Jesus was born before 4BC under the reign of King Herod Mathew says – Joseph and Mary were wealthy – God, Frankincense, and Myrrh Mathew says – Joseph and Mary and Jesus escaped to Egypt Mat 2:11 And when they came into the house, they saw the Child with His mother Miriam; and they fell down and worshiped Him. Then, opening their treasures, they presented to Him gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh. Mat 2:12 And having been warned in a dream not to go back to Herod, they returned to their own country by another way. Mat 2:13 Now when they had gone, behold, an angel of Adonai appears to Joseph in a dream, saying, “Get up! Take the Child and His mother and flee to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is about to search for the Child, to kill Him.” Mat 2:14 So he got up, took the Child and His mother during the night, and went to Egypt. Luke says – Jesus was Born after 6AD under the rule of Quirinius Luke says – Joseph and Mary were poor Luke says – they went home to Galilee Luk 2:24 So they offered a sacrifice according to what was said in the Torah of Adonai: “a pair of turtle doves, or two young pigeons.” (Arthur Clark) - Lev_12:8. The rich were required to bring a lamb, but the poor and middling classes were required to bring either two turtle doves, or two pigeons.Luk 2:39 When Joseph and Miriam had completed everything according to the Torah of Adonai, they returned to the Galilee, to their own city of Natzeret. RP" What about a partial Nazarite, enough from birth to age 8? R" No , you will not understand me, because you do not understand a Great Controversy Tell me how your SDA balance two completely different stories of the early life of Jesus
Quote scripture – not man-made doctrine
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2021 14:15:00 GMT -5
Dave lists lots of verses regarding this belief thing in the salvation message. Joh 5:24 believeth "pisteuo" D" YEP – belief in God = salvationR" Dave you have not considered the right verses? Ro 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth "pisteuo" 5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. 6 But the righteousness which is of faith "pisteuo" speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith "pisteuo", which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe "pisteuo" in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth "pisteuo" unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth "pisteuo"on him shall not be ashamed. R" The biggest element in this passage, explaining the salvation message is "pisteuo" or "pistis". Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe "pisteuo" or "pistis" that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. And in the OT Hab 2:4 ..but the just shall live by his faith "amanuah". So Dave what specifically is this "belief" that humans do, to have the salvation message? D" All believe what they believe – and have strong convictionsR" So all religions have some believe and strong convictions, but they do not have the salvation message? Are you sure this word "pistis/pisteuo/amanuah" actually means belief? Maybe it doesn't mean this at all? D" You did not answer my question to you = you avoided taking a stand What is the difference between salvation and redemption?R" I do not see essentially any difference in relationship terms with GOD. perhaps salvation is the name of a divine being, and redemption is what Salvation the Being does to humans. D" By learning from the spirit – no man, not brain, not reason – just God Joh 14:26 But the Helper, the Ruach ha-Kodesh whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you everything and remind you of everything that I said to you.R" so if we learn from the Spirit, why did you put this verse in? Actually the verse says we learn from the Father which flows through Jesus the Son of the Father, whom is presented individually to humans via the conscience of your mind through the HS. SO really we are learning from the Father. RP" Oh? you mean God talks to you and you talk to God, via our conscience with His still small voice?D" Mock away RobertR" Don't you believe in this communion Dave? I do, so I am not mocking at all. God does talk to you all the time when you connect to the Father and the Son. D" Oh Robert – if you have never felt the hand of God upon your heart – I cannot explian it to youR" not a quantified answer Dave, salvation is not an emotion or a feeling. Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Scripture says when you hear GOD speak, you have see God with your eyes. Isa 30:21 And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left. Ro 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) This still small voice comes via our conscience, a GOD implanted gift administrated by the HS, in which GOD speaks softly and individually to every soul. D" How can you commune spirit to sppirit - or pray in the spirit - if you deny the spiritR" who says I deny the spirit? Comment made on the word study ruwach spiritualsprings.org/ss-911.htm(529) Ro 8:16 The Spirit (ruwach) itself beareth witness with our spirit (ruwach) , that we are the children of God : The Spirit-character (administrated by the Holy Spirit) itself beareth witness with our Spirit-character (administrated by the Holy Spirit) that we are children of the FAMILY Powers of GOD Notice the character of GOD administrated by the Holy Spirit bears witness to our own character development administrated by the Holy Spirit of GOD that we are indeed children of GOD because our character development is a simile of GOD's own character. We have taken seeds from Jesus, grown and made fruits of character from those seeds, and become the characters we have chosen to sow. Published in 2012, long time ago. ------------------------------------ youtu.be/EjIlhu-yuTI R" Whoever believes in Him "amanuah" do you understand this? And what this second spiritual birth refers to? Not born a second time of flesh, but the second time of the spirit. ----------------------------------------------- D" There ya go = You deny the Spirit of GodR" I read through your passage, didn't say the gifts are of the HS, but from the Father, administrated by the HS in you. D" You need to resist this because the world as we see and measure it only proves your satan to you To everyone else on the planet it speaks to an Intelligent DesignerR" If nature speaks to you as an Intelligent Designer, why do you have animals dying and decomposing before Adam sinned? You mock God by saying this natural ra was designed in the Nature. D"B ecause you chose to What is fruit? = Winning souls for the Lord! This is the calling of the Christian!R" Fruit is not wining souls, fruit is the reproduction of GOD into your character, your spirit, so that you are developed int he womb of the HS as a person blameless before GOD. Notice this Ho 14:2 Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips. Or as Paul says it Heb 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name. Ga 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) (KJV) The fruits of sowing the words of Jesus is spiritual development in you, character development. Not witnessing per se' although this is important. D" Are any of your views Christian?-R" I could say the same from your view? Beginning with this belief thing? D" In Revelation 19:1-2, heaven’s inhabitants praise God for specific events of judgment taking place on earth. “Those on Earth may be ignorant of events in Heaven, but those in Heaven are not ignorant of events on Earth, at least some of these events.”R" Oh I see, sure the other unfallen worlds watch the Eden and human story of sin. But not unborn humans like Dave were in Eden at that time, nor me, we were only genetic seeds locked away in the gametes of Adam and Eve. D" Luke says – Joseph and Mary were poor Luke says – they went home to Galilee Luk 2:24 So they offered a sacrifice according to what was said in the Torah of Adonai: “a pair of turtle doves, or two young pigeons.” R"Arn't you assuming they were poor? I see GOD gave them gifts to live OK in Egypt for 2 years, what is wrong with being poor anyway? D" Tell me how your SDA balance two completely different stories of the early life of Jesus
Quote scripture – not man-made doctrineR" Arn't you changing the theme of this thread ?? Changing topic? --------------------------------- In this presentation, you haven't really answer the question, what is the salvation message and how is salvation given to humans? How about reading my link on Amanuah, and we begin from here? I watched your video, now you read my webpages. spiritualsprings.org/ss-1513.htmShalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 26, 2021 17:07:40 GMT -5
D" YEP – belief in God = salvation R" Dave you have not considered the right verses? Ro 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth "pisteuo" R" The biggest element in this passage, explaining the salvation message is "pisteuo" or "pistis". G4100 – πιστεύω - From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with. Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe "pisteuo" or "pistis" that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. G4102 – πίστις - From G3982; persuasion, that is, credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), And in the OT Hab 2:4 ..but the just shall live by his faith "amanuah". H530 - אֱמֻנָה - Feminine of H529; literally firmness; figuratively security; moral fidelity: - faith (-ful, -ly, -ness, [man]), set office, stability, steady, truly, truth, verily. So Dave what specifically is this "belief" that humans do, to have the salvation message?D"All believe what they believe – and have strong convictions R" So all religions have some believe and strong convictions, but they do not have the salvation message? Are you sure this word "pistis/pisteuo/amanuah" actually means belief? Maybe it doesn't mean this at all? (google) Given a current global population of about 7.8 billion, the revised estimate means those alive in 2020 represent nearly 7% of the total number of people who have ever lived. Total population since Adam = around 111.5 Billion The idea that only 144,000 Christians are saved – or only Christians are saved – is just arrogant and totally unfair to all Judaism, God's chosen peopleD"You did not answer my question = you avoided taking a stand What is the difference between salvation and redemption? R" I do not see essentially any difference in relationship terms with GOD. perhaps salvation is the name of a divine being, and redemption is what Salvation the Being does to humans. Salvation is to save from a harm To be redeemed is to re restoredD" By learning from the spirit – no man, not brain, not reason – just God Joh 14:26 But the Helper, the Ruach ha-Kodesh whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you everything and remind you of everything that I said to you. R" so if we learn from the Spirit, why did you put this verse in? Actually the verse says we learn from the Father which flows through Jesus the Son of the Father, whom is presented individually to humans via the conscience of your mind through the HS. SO really we are learning from the Father. I said = D" By learning from the spirit – no man, not brain, not reason – just GodRP" Oh? you mean God talks to you and you talk to God, via our conscience with His still small voice? D" Mock away Robert R" Don't you believe in this communion Dave? I do, so I am not mocking at all. God does talk to you all the time when you connect to the Father and the Son. You and I are not talking about the same thing 2 Kings 6 – are you Elisha or the servant?Gnostic Christians - First century Messanic Jews - Chrasimatic Christians all preach the goal is to know God as Elisha did - as Modes did - to say this is impossibe now is not scriptural and is the suggestion of the archon - suggesting sripture is a lie To believe you CAN NOT be a spiritual Christian - is 100% the teaching of the Beast and the SDAD"Oh Robert – if you have never felt the hand of God upon your heart – I cannot explian it to you R" not a quantified answer Dave, salvation is not an emotion or a feeling. Sorry Robert – it is great Joy This still small voice comes via our conscience, a GOD implanted gift administrated by the HS, in which GOD speaks softly and individually to every soul.You and I are not talking about the same thing 2 Kings 6 – are you Elisha or the servant?D" How can you commune spirit to spirit - or pray in the spirit - if you deny the spirit R" who says I deny the spirit?You absolutely argue against the idea that man is and unique and independent spirit You fully endorse Roger Mornou – He says the SDA teach it is a sin to believe man has a spiritComment made on the word study ruwach spiritualsprings.org/ss-911.htm (529) Ro 8:16 The Spirit (ruwach) itself beareth witness with our spirit (ruwach) , that we are the children of God : The Spirit-character (administrated by the Holy Spirit) itself beareth witness with our Spirit-character (administrated by the Holy Spirit) that we are children of the FAMILY Powers of GOD No matter how you try to bury the truth in religious talk You absolutely argue against the idea that man is and unique and independent spirit----------------------------------- D"There ya go = You deny the Spirit of God R" I read through your passage, didn't say the gifts are of the HS, but from the Father, administrated by the HS in you. Just stop with your idiocy word games You can choose to be a student or an assD"Luke says – Joseph and Mary were poor Luke says – they went home to Galilee Luk 2:24 So they offered a sacrifice according to what was said in the Torah of Adonai: “a pair of turtle doves, or two young pigeons.” R"Arn't you assuming they were poor? I see GOD gave them gifts to live OK in Egypt for 2 years, what is wrong with being poor anyway?The SDA teach that Joseph and Mary were not observant Jews?(Arthur Clark) - Lev_12:8. The rich were required to bring a lamb, but the poor and middling classes were required to bring either two turtle doves, or two pigeons. Mathew says they had Gold Farkenese and Myrrh If you say The Magi came later – Luke says later they went to GalileeD"Tell me how your SDA balance two completely different stories of the early life of Jesus Quote scripture – not man-made doctrine R" Arn't you changing the theme of this thread ?? Changing topic? RP" What about a partial Nazarite, enough from birth to age 8? D" Are you referring to Jesus being from the city of Nazareth? R" No , you will not understand me, because you do not understand a Great Controversy. WHO IS – Who says things WITHOUT documentation or evidence then – when asked – accuse me of changing the topic?--------------------------------- How about reading my link on Amanuah, and we begin from here? I watched your video, now you read my webpages.I await your comments - just to say you watch the video requested is no proof you gave it any thought at all 2Ki 6:21 When the king of Israel saw them, he said to Elisha, “Shall I surely strike them down, Avi?” 2Ki 6:22 “Don’t strike them down,” he replied. “Would you strike down those whom you have captured with your own sword and bow? Set before them bread and water that they may eat and drink and go back to their master.” I believe the word of God - this is a real event - spiritualSet before them bread and water that they may eat and drink and go back to their masterPlease watch the Movie Amish Grace - YouTube - you and your wife ans all your fanmily ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/520/amish-grace?page=1&scrollTo=6180
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Post by Dave on Aug 27, 2021 5:31:04 GMT -5
I read your web page - I have a comment prepared - you first
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2021 16:44:58 GMT -5
D" The idea that only 144,000 Christians are saved – or only Christians are saved – is just arrogant and totally unfair to all Judaism, God's chosen peopleR" I used to think that too Dave. Now with the people getting jabbed and soon to die in their millions I am not so sure. I think it is literal, and the 144,000 are people not jabbed, but simply choose to obey the temple of the HS and not defile their bodies with an experimental jab. D" Salvation is to save from a harm To be redeemed is to re restoredR" Salvation is to save from a harm Redemption is to restore what was harmed D" Sorry Robert – it is great JoyR" Yes, but your decisions of faith are not based on feelings, these feelings come later. A mason movie Shrek II I think, the girl said "do what you feelings is telling you" is false. God says let us reason together, your cognitive mind makes the decisions, not your heart. D" The SDA teach that Joseph and Mary were not observant Jews?R" We do? Not that I am aware of? D" I await your comments - just to say you watch the video requested is no proof you gave it any thought at allR" What do you want me to say Dave? I watched this video a long time ago, it's not available as an easy link now. The video is about the Amish forgiving the mother who raised the son who killed one of their own. It's a moving story, I love the Amish people, and would have been one of them myself I reckon, they follow the simple messages of love from Scripture and avoid the pleasure traps of the world. Ps 126:5 They that sow in tears shall reap in joy In Africa the farmer gets the last corn cobs off the wall, family hungry and goes out to sow the seeds in the rains that finally came, with tears of joy in his hope, his stomach hungry for food. Such is the power of forgiveness, give God what is His and allow His love to flow to you, all things are reconciled later by God. Judgement happens later. Now we just keep on loving, even though who took away our vessels of love. As for your other video, Nicodemus and Jesus spoke Scriptures to each other in a movie setting. I am glad you read my understanding of faith, I would appreciate you comments too. Messanic email today For that reason, perhaps, Paul said that being a Jew is a matter of having a circumcised heart more than circumcised flesh. He wasn’t by any means negating circumcision; he was emphasizing that to cross over into the Kingdom of God, there must be an inward change. R" yes inward change, the birth of the spirit, that restores the old corrupt flesh that causes us to become sinners, a new change restores the old nature, and our new nature makes us become sinless. We can always choose to sin, and spoil things, but we choose not to. We choose to remain with Jesus. " But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.” (Romans 2:29) The wilderness experience was so challenging and defining that future rabbinic texts consider any physical or spiritual desert as an enemy to be overcome. Our challenge is to walk through the times of wilderness in our lives and be transformed so that we can enter the Promised Land.
Disobedience and rebellion against God, however, result in punishment; the Word of God lists 98 chilling admonitions that take up half of this Parasha. These include diseases, plagues, poverty, famine, slavery, and defeat by enemies. For this reason, Parasha Ki Tavo has been called “the warning chapter,” and the Torah reader, who traditionally chants the Torah portion according to a sing-song pattern, rushes through the recital of dreaded curses in a hushed, fearful tone. We need not look far to see that the Jewish People have been blessed by the Almighty God as He promised; but they have also done more than their fair share of suffering over the centuries due to the curses of the law that come into play because of sin (Deuteronomy 28:15–68).R" yes because of our sin. Teviah, the father in the movie Fiddler on the Roof, expressed this sentiment so humorously after his horse became lame just before the Sabbath: “God, I know that we are Your chosen people, but couldn’t You choose someone else for a change?” There are some who follow Yeshua HaMashiach (Jesus the Messiah), but believe that it is our lot in life to suffer from these curses along with the rest of the world; however, the Word of God tells us differently. As covenant children of God, we are to enjoy His blessings on our lives if we are walking in obedience to His commandments.R" following Jesus is one of joy and blessings. We might look at ourselves and say, I don’t look much like a treasure; I’m too short or too tall, too fat or too thin, not pretty or smart enough to be a treasure. We might check in with our emotions and say, I don’t feel that I qualify to be called a treasure of God; I have so many faults and weaknesses — I need to work on keeping my temper; I’m not yet disciplined enough; I don’t witness enough — whatever we perceive to be our weakness. But as the apostle Paul says, we are to put no confidence in the attributes of our flesh (Philippians 3:3). Certainly, if anyone could have qualified as a treasure by the certificates on his wall and trophies on his desk, it would have been the apostle Paul, who described himself in this way: “circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.” (Philippians 3:5–6) He considered himself without fault in the flesh and in his keeping of the Torah; yet he put no value on all of these external qualifications. Instead, he put his trust in the person of the Messiah:R" Yes trust Jesus and grow in His Faith “ But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Messiah. What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Messiah Yeshua Adonai (my Lord), for whose sake I have lost all things
Although Paul continued to keep the law, he understood that his excellent performance was not to be compared to the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. R" Yes it is by faith we are saved by Jesus. And while our own performance may not be as righteous as Paul’s, we must accept by faith that if we are empowered to walk in Adonai's ways by His Spirit and are obedient, then we are in truth His special treasure. Despite our faults, weaknesses and imperfections, the Lord loves and values us, and we can say, “I am royalty — a child of the King of Kings — the segulah of the Lord — a precious treasure!”
How do we care for treasures? We put them in special places and guard them jealously, keeping them in a safe, secure place. Can we even fathom the grief and wrath that God feels when someone causes one of His segulah to suffer?R" take care of our treasure by not getting jabbed. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 27, 2021 18:48:43 GMT -5
D"The idea that only 144,000 Christians are saved – or only Christians are saved – is just arrogant and totally unfair to all Judaism, God's chosen people R" I used to think that too Dave. Now with the people getting jabbed and soon to die in their millions I am not so sure. I think it is literal, and the 144,000 are people not jabbed, but simply choose to obey the temple of the HS and not defile their bodies with an experimental jab. Sure Robert – you believe in a God of love that only saves 0.000774% of all His creation How is this a God of Love that throws 99.999326% of all people into the Lake of Fire So no Jew from the ahl is saved – only Christians Poor Moses and Isaac – used by God and sent to hell This is a strange God of Love you have
D"The SDA teach that Joseph and Mary were not observant Jews? R" We do? Not that I am aware of? You claim that they have Gold, Frankness , and Myrrh – but they offered a poor man sacrifice If you say the Magi didn’t come to Bethlehem until after the sacrifice Then I’ll remind you that the scripture of Luke said after the sacrifice they went to Galilee
You still haven’t told me you SDA proof that Jesus was a Nazarite as a young child- age 5 perhaps You offered it as fact – without documentation and then avoided addressing my question Does your SDA doctrine hold water or not?
Still waiting for you to answer – by what authority do you make creation days 1-6 only 24hr when we agree that time is not linear So far you best answer is – yom = 24 hrs except when it doesn’t So by what authority do you mandate that days 1-6 are only 24hrs Come on Robert lets see your scripture
Messanic email today
For that reason, perhaps, Paul said that being a Jew is a matter of having a circumcised heart more than circumcised flesh. He wasn’t by any means negating circumcision; he was emphasizing that to cross over into the Kingdom of God, there must be an inward change.
The Gospel of Thomas - The Nag Hammadi Library (53) His disciples said to him, "Is circumcision beneficial or not?" He said to them, "If it were beneficial, their father would beget them already circumcised from their mother. Rather, the true circumcision in spirit has become completely profitable."
We need not look far to see that the Jewish People have been blessed by the Almighty God as He promised; but they have also done more than their fair share of suffering over the centuries due to the curses of the law that come into play because of sin (Deuteronomy 28:15–68).
But according to Robert and the SDA no one of those Jews is welcome in heaven Only 144,000 Christians
How do we care for treasures? We put them in special places and guard them jealously, keeping them in a safe, secure place. Can we even fathom the grief and wrath that God feels when someone causes one of His segulah to suffer?
R" take care of our treasure by not getting jabbed. My treasures is in heaven – I care not for any earthly treasure How does a vaccine affect your salvation if you are SDA? Because – nothing worldly is of consequence to the rest of us.
Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2021 16:22:39 GMT -5
D" You still haven’t told me you SDA proof that Jesus was a Nazarite as a young child- age 5 perhaps You offered it as fact – without documentation and then avoided addressing my question Does your SDA doctrine hold water or not?R" Please Dave do not call my theories of faith SDA, they are my own, from my own studies. Sure I used to attend the SDA assemblies because they fit my views, but individually we are allowed to have other views than the SDA view. My understanding is Jesus was born under law as a code with Mary, hence took on the corrupt code the DNA in Mary had. So Jesus inherited aven, but did not allow this aven to develop into propensities of sin. How is this possible as a child from the womb? The only answer I can ascertain is Jesus must have been born a Nazarite, with HS protection from birth like Samson, and Samuel and John the Baptist. Just my 2 pennies Dave, nothing more. D" This is a strange God of Love you haveR" Not God's fault if you take the jab and die earlier than usual? D" but they offered a poor man sacrificeR" Why is offering doves considered a poor man's sacrifice? D" Still waiting for you to answer – by what authority do you make creation days 1-6 only 24hr when we agree that time is not linearR" Physical law. a Yom on earth is one rotation, = 24 hours. God make the week of time using 7 yoms on earth. When we from earth look at stars they appear old, yes because time stretches on a different frame of reference. God looks at us from heaven, a different frame of reference. But Us on earth viewing earth time, we remain in local yom time. Does this make sense to you? D" He said to them, "If it were beneficial, their father would beget them already circumcised from their mother. Rather, the true circumcision in spirit has become completely profitable." R" D"B ut according to Robert and the SDA no one of those Jews is welcome in heaven Only 144,000 ChristiansR" It's [prophecy] about end of time Dave, not the total number saved. D" How does a vaccine affect your salvation if you are SDA? Because – nothing worldly is of consequence to the rest of us.R" 1Co 3:16 ¶ Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. {defile: or, destroy} 18 ¶ Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. 1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: 1Co 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. 1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: 1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: Passage is about physical food and spiritual food that defiles and edifies the body and soul. Does the torah have a health message? Le 11:44 neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. Nanotube genetic inventions crawl in your body... Le 18:24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you: Love not the world or the things of technology in the world that defile the body Le 20:3 And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name. We are not to defile the temple of the HS with Molech inventions, not allow our bodies to become genetically modified. Le 22:8 That which dieth of itself, or is torn with beasts, he shall not eat to defile himself therewith: I am the LORD You cannot take any that defile your body and causes death inside you.... Graphene Oxide kills your cells, and causes things to die of itself. Eze 44:25 And they shall come at no dead person to defile themselves: Many vaccines have the cells of dead persons in them Mt 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. There is spiritual defilement yes, but also physical defilement. Mt 15:20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man. Understood to mean ceremonial washing, not washing germs from the hands. Mr 7:23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man. Anything dysfunctional chemically defiles the man. Jude 1:8 ¶ Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. (KJV) Defile the flesh is also in the NT D"Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul R" Yes a reference to the soul, yes, but the soul is connected to the physical too. A soul cannot think if it's flooded in alcohol, drugs, and other "Anything dysfunctional chemicals that defiles the man." Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 29, 2021 23:11:22 GMT -5
R" Please Dave do not call my theories of faith SDA, they are my own, from my own studies. Sure I used to attend the SDA assemblies because they fit my views, but individually we are allowed to have other views than the SDA view.Too late – you came on here as a SDA, you presented SDA doctrine as your own, you consider Ellen White a Prophet of the Lord and want to quote her as scripture – just like the Gospel of John or the Book of Isaiah Even with your Jesus was a Nazarite argument you quote the SDA Great Controversy as factual evidence of your view To divorce yourself after 2 years is meaningless From day one I have made it clear I am not a Baptist, a Catholic, or a Presbyterian or any label I call myself a Gnostic to separate myself from the noise you preach as doctrine D" You still haven’t told me you SDA proof that Jesus was a Nazarite as a young child- age 5 perhaps You offered it as fact – without documentation and then avoided addressing my question Does your SDA doctrine hold water or not?Rephrase – Does your doctrine hold water or not?My understanding is Jesus was born under law as a code with Mary, hence took on the corrupt code the DNA in Mary had. So Jesus inherited aven, but did not allow this aven to develop into propensities of sin. How is this possible as a child from the womb? The only answer I can ascertain is Jesus must have been born a Nazarite, with HS protection from birth like Samson, and Samuel and John the Baptist. 1- YES – Jesus Christ was a (yester ra) + (yester tov) 2- His (yester ra) came with/from/inherent to/ a byproduct of The Son of Man (biology) 3- His (yester tov) was Christ the Divine Spirit inside the man 4- We are all made in God’s image – we are all (yester ra) biology + (yester tov) spirit I understand your assumption that Jesus was called from the womb – set asideHowever – the view of most theologians (all I have ever read) = The vow of a Nazarite had time limits Jewish men could take the vow for a year in exchange for fertility Men took the vow for 1yr, 3yrs, 5yrs or life, Paul stopped being a Nazarite or took the vow in Acts 21 Samson, and Samuel and John the Baptist were Nazarites for life Why would the term for Jesus the Messiah be less? Jesus did not do the correct sacrifices and he was a wine drinker Jesus also did not set himself apart D"This is a strange God of Love you have R" Not God's fault if you take the jab and die earlier than usual?Please explain to me how any vaccine, or drug, or alphol, or coffee, or even the smoking of a pipe Cancel your salvation – or prevent you from being saved Health nuts that preach the body is the temple want their biology to live foreverI say it has nothing to do with salvation – it is just all earthly crap that will all perish into dustD"but they offered a poor man sacrifice R" Why is offering doves considered a poor man's sacrifice?There ya go – I have posted this documentation Twice Luk 2:24 So they offered a sacrifice according to what was said in the Torah of Adonai: “a pair of turtle doves, or two young pigeons.” (Arthur Clark) - Lev_12:8. The rich were required to bring a lamb, but the poor and middling classes were required to bring either two turtle doves, or two pigeons.Luk 2:39 When Joseph and Miriam had completed everything according to the Torah of Adonai, they returned to the Galilee, to their own city of Natzeret. R"Arn't you assuming they were poor? I see GOD gave them gifts to live OK in Egypt for 2 years, what is wrong with being poor anyway?The SDA teach that Joseph and Mary were not observant Jews?(Arthur Clark) - Lev_12:8. The rich were required to bring a lamb, but the poor and middling classes were required to bring either two turtle doves, or two pigeons. Lev 12:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. Lev 12:3 And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. Lev 12:4 And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying three and thirty days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled. Lev 12:5 But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days. Lev 12:6 And when the days of her purifying are fulfilled, for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring a lamb of the first year for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon, or a turtledove, for a sin offering, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest: Lev 12:7 Who shall offer it before the LORD, and make an atonement for her; and she shall be cleansed from the issue of her blood. This is the law for her that hath born a male or a female. Lev 12:8 And if she be not able to bring a lamb, then she shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons; the one for the burnt offering, and the other for a sin offering: and the priest shall make an atonement for her, and she shall be clean. Luk 2:24 So they offered a sacrifice according to what was said in the Torah of Adonai: “a pair of turtle doves, or two young pigeons.” R" Why is offering doves considered a poor man's sacrifice?There ya go – I have posted this documentation TwiceDid they offer a lamb? Or “a pair of turtle doves, or two young pigeons.”You admit - Some say you do not listen - I say you do not take the conversation seriouslyDO YOU?D" Still waiting for you to answer – by what authority do you make creation days 1-6 only 24hr when we agree that time is not linear R" Physical law. a Yom on earth is one rotation, = 24 hours. God make the week of time using 7 yoms on earth.Day 6 ended 2,110,795 rotations ago according to the Jewish Calandar So by what authority to you mandate that days 1-6 are only 1 rotationGod looks at us from heaven, a different frame of reference. But Us on earth viewing earth time, we remain in local yom time. Does this make sense to you?Yep – from God’s perspective it was 6 days – from man’s perspective it could have been much longer indeed1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: Proportional Punishment1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: Yes – flesh (yester ra) 1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: Spirit vrs worldDoes the torah have a health message? The Torah had many laws to keep Israel alive as a people – correctThe agl has a different message – witness even if it cost you your lifeOne moment on the cross with Jesus is all it took the man at Calvary One moment like that is worth a lifetime – no matter how long Many vaccines have the cells of dead persons in themNope – incorrect statement – no cells – some have DNA fragments(google) Fetal cell lines are cells that grow in a laboratory. They descend from cells taken from elective abortions in the 1970s and 1980s. Those individual cells from the 1970s and 1980s have since multiplied into many new cells over the past four or five decades, creating fetal cell lines. Current fetal cell lines are thousands of generations removed from the original fetal tissue. Some bacterial vaccines are grown in human fetal cell lines – DPT, pertussis, MMR do contain <5pg of human DNA fragments per package insert Most viruses – flu and covid – are grown in chicken eggs mRNA vaccines are made differently from either of these methods Mt 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. Works – your witness is always onMr 7:23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man. From within (yester ra) – absolutely nothing to do with your satan god ruling everyoneAnything dysfunctional chemically defiles the man. So only the healthy can be saved? Strange God of Love you haveDefile the flesh is also in the NT D"Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul R" Yes a reference to the soul, yes, but the soul is connected to the physical too. A soul cannot think if it's flooded in alcohol, drugs, and other "Anything dysfunctional chemicals that defiles the man." Correct – you cannot listen to your (yester tov) if you are preoccupied with world Doesn’t even have to be chemical – sometimes it is just religionSo all your satan in your world has to do is cause brain damage and no one with an impaired brain can be saved – what of the retarded, birth defects, brain damage by trauma, mental health problems? This is your God of Love? 1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 1Jn 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. Love not the world (flesh), neither the things that are in the world (flesh). If any man love the world (flesh), then he is preoccupied with world (flesh) and doesn’t have the time for the Father Joh 18:36 Yeshua answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I wouldn’t be handed over to the Judean leaders. But as it is, My kingdom is not from here.” Php 3:20 For our citizenship is in heaven, and from there we eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Yeshua the Messiah. The Apocryphon of James - The Nag Hammadi LibraryJesus says – “Hence, become full of the Spirit, but be in want of reason, for reason <belongs to> the soul; in turn, it is (of the nature of) soul." But I answered and said to him, "Lord, we can obey you if you wish, for we have forsaken our fathers and our mothers and our villages, and followed you. Grant us, therefore, not to be tempted by the devil, the evil one." The Lord answered and said, "What is your merit if you do the will of the Father and it is not given to you from him as a gift while you are tempted by Satan? But if you are oppressed by Satan, and persecuted, and you do his (i.e., the Father's) will, I say that he will love you, and make you equal with me, and reckon you to have become beloved through his providence by your own choice. The Contest – Gen 3:15 – we are being testedDo you dare to spare the flesh, you for whom the Spirit is an encircling wall? If you consider how long the world existed <before> you, and how long it will exist after you, you will find that your life is one single day, and your sufferings one single hour. For the good will not enter into the world. Scorn death, therefore, and take thought for life! Remember my cross and my death, and you will live!" In the human life span – what is 15 years – the years between 80 and 95 (google) How much longer do vegans live? Many large population studies have found that vegetarians and vegans live longer than meat eaters: According to the Loma Linda University study, vegetarians live about seven years longer and vegans about fifteen years longer than meat eaters.But I answered and said to him, "Lord, do not mention to us the cross and death, for they are far from you." The Lord answered and said, "Verily, I say unto you, none will be saved unless they believe in my cross. But those who have believed in my cross, theirs is the kingdom of God. Therefore, become seekers for death, like the dead who seek for life; for that which they seek is revealed to them. And what is there to trouble them? As for you, when you examine death, it will teach you election. Verily, I say unto you, none of those who fear death will be saved; for the kingdom belongs to those who put themselves to death. Become better than I; make yourselves like the son of the Holy Spirit!" Joh 15:13 No one has greater love than this: that he lay down his life for his friends.The Book of Thomas the Contender - The Nag Hammadi Library"Woe to you who hope in the flesh and in the prison that will perish! How long will you be oblivious? And how long will you suppose that the imperishables will perish too? Your hope is set upon the world, and your god is this life! You are corrupting your souls! "Woe to you within the fire that burns in you, for it is insatiable! "Woe to you because of the wheel that turns in your minds! "Woe to you within the grip of the burning that is in you, for it will devour your flesh openly and rend your souls secretly, and prepare you for your companions! "Woe to you, captives, for you are bound in caverns! You laugh! In mad laughter you rejoice! You neither realize your perdition, nor do you reflect on your circumstances, nor have you understood that you dwell in darkness and death! On the contrary, you are drunk with the fire and full of bitterness. Your mind is deranged on account of the burning that is in you, and sweet to you are the poison and the blows of your enemies! And the darkness rose for you like the light, for you surrendered your freedom for servitude! You darkened your hearts and surrendered your thoughts to folly, and you filled your thoughts with the smoke of the fire that is in you! And your light has hidden in the cloud of [...] and the garment that is put upon you, you [...]. And you were seized by the hope that does not exist. "Woe to you who dwell in error, heedless that the light of the sun which judges and looks down upon the all will circle around all things so as to enslave the enemies. You do not even notice the moon, how by night and day it looks down, looking at the bodies of your slaughters! There is nothing wrong with a healthy life styleTo encourage dietary laws - or preach deitary laws - is just a religious distraction - a thing to do - and has nothing to do with salvation
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2021 3:59:36 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
D"Men took the vow for 1yr, 3yrs, 5yrs or life, Paul stopped being a Nazarite or took the vow in Acts 21 Samson, and Samuel and John the Baptist were Nazarites for life Why would the term for Jesus the Messiah be less? Jesus did not do the correct sacrifices and he was a wine drinker Jesus also did not set himself apart R" You confirm many things about Yashuah as born under the law, inheriting Mary's seed. You also confirm the Nazarite vow can be limited in time or for life. I suspect Jesus was a Nazarite for 8 years, is this so unreasonable?
D"Health nuts that preach the body is the temple want their biology to live forever
R"Did I not show you that the torah has a health message? Is not our bodies a living temple for GOD? Do we not want our biological bodies to live forever? That is what Adam and Eve had originally? Jesus lives in a biological body, encapsulating his divinity.
1Co 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. Ps 49:9 That he should still live for ever, and not see corruption. 10 For he seeth that wise men die, likewise the fool and the brutish person perish,...
Ac 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Ac 13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: Ac 13:37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
R" The biological body is remade without corruption.
Re 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: Re 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. (humans eat fruit still)
Re 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD
D"I say it has nothing to do with salvation – it is just all earthly crap that will all perish into dust R" Didn't I show you texts that show we can defile the body of the living temple of God?
1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
D"The SDA teach that Joseph and Mary were not observant Jews? (Arthur Clark) - Lev_12:8. The rich were required to bring a lamb, but the poor and middling classes were required to bring either two turtle doves, or two pigeons.
R" Sorry Dave, but who is Arthur Clark, is he SDA or what? And what is wrong with offering doves rather than a lamb? A little more commentary from you would be nice at times, I am confused?
D"Yep – from God’s perspective it was 6 days – from man’s perspective it could have been much longer indeed R" No you have the frame of reference wrong, yom on earth is local time, 1 yom = 24 hours of time.
Due to earth racing away from God, the time stretches out, so for GOD it seems to be viewed as longer. On earth the time remains local, one yom at a time. D"In the human life span – what is 15 years – the years between 80 and 95 (google) How much longer do vegans live? Many large population studies have found that vegetarians and vegans live longer than meat eaters: According to the Loma Linda University study, vegetarians live about seven years longer and vegans about fifteen years longer than meat eaters. R" It's not just the length of time is longer, the quality of living is better. Are you saying it's OK to be stone drunk and everyday drinking alcohol , and still you here the voice of GOD and are saved , so this intoxicating poison is not a missing for you receiving more powers from Jesus every day? Can you reason with a drunk? Pr 20:1 ¶ Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
D"There is nothing wrong with a healthy life style To encourage dietary laws - or preach deitary laws - is just a religious distraction - a thing to do - and has nothing to do with salvation R" Nothing to do with salvation? Really? What is salvation Dave? A divine Person? Was anything dysfunctional created in the garden for us to become dysfunctional with? Nothing. All things were functional, for the body, for the eye and for the hands to use. perfection includes all the physical as well as the spiritual.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 31, 2021 15:58:28 GMT -5
D"Health nuts that preach the body is the temple want their biology to live forever R"Did I not show you that the torah has a health message? YES Robert – there is a health message in the ahl – also a message to spill no seed upon the ground – to ensure the survival of God’s chosen people Just how many cultures from the 4th millennium BC still survive - with customs, language, and religion intact? Is not our bodies a living temple for GOD?It can be when the HS / Comforter / Christ is indwelling and we are in communion spirit to spirit You deny the spirit and focus upon the biology (world)Ecc 3:17 I said in my heart: “The righteous and the wicked, God will judge. For there is a time for every activity and for every deed.” Ecc 3:18 I also said in my heart, “As for the sons of man, God tests them so that they may see that they are but animals.” Ecc 3:19 For the destiny of humankind and the destiny of animals are one and the same. As one dies, so dies the other. Both have the same breath—a human has no advantage over an animal—both are fleeting. Ecc 3:20 Both go to one place. Both were taken from the dust, and both return to the dust. Ecc 3:21 Who knows that the spirit of the sons of man ascends upward and the animal’s spirit descends into the earth? The Body return to the dust from where it came The spirit of man / his soul returns to GodYou deny scriptureD"I say it has nothing to do with salvation – it is just all earthly crap that will all perish into dustR" Didn't I show you texts that show we can defile the body of the living temple of God?1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. Glorify God – who comes into your body as the Comforter – who communes with your spirit1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: R" The biological body is remade without corruption.Correct – REMADE - we will be like He is – changed – appear /disappear – walk through walls [/font] OK Mr diet restrictions are necessary to be save teacher – teach me this You are captured by the enemy – you are in jail – all you have to eat is red meat Why does this cost you your salvation OK Mr diet restrictions are necessary for salvation – what if your arm is blown off in an accident Do you lose your salvation ? Will you walk around in the New Earth with only one arm? OK MR diet restrictions guy – what if you are blow a part in a blast – cremated in a fire - at the center of a Nuclear Blast – no body – does this mean there is nothing left of you to save? Mar 7:14 Then Yeshua called the crowd again and began saying to them, “Hear Me, everyone, and understand. Mar 7:15 There is nothing outside the man that can make him unholy by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of the man that makes the man unholy.” Mar 7:17 When He had left the crowd and entered the house, His disciples questioned Him about the parable. Mar 7:18 And He said to them, “Are you then also lacking understanding? Don’t you grasp that whatever goes into the man cannot make him unholy? Mar 7:19 For it does not enter into the heart but into the stomach, and then goes out into the sewer, cleansing all foods.” D"I say it has nothing to do with salvation – it is just all earthly crap that will all perish into dust1Co 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. How is bread – a cheap saltine cracker the body of Christ in your view? If you eat Christ body up – what would be left?If you deny the spirit - aren’t you preach human cannibalism? Every Muslim wants an answerI have been in churches where real wine is served with a big disclaimer for the parents I have seen real wine for the adults – and grape juice for the kids I have seen grape soda – and even Kool-Aid I have seen crackers – gold fish crackers – animal crackers – and a big lump of unleven bread that we each picked up and broke off a corner I sat and listen to a missionary beg for money so they could send grape plants to Uganda- so the mission could have a vineyard to celebrate Communion correctly D"I say it has nothing to do with salvation – it is just all earthly crap that will all perish into dustAc 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. CONTRADICTORY TO YOUR THEOLOGYYou claim Jesus Christ was not God in craniate – he was just a man You even said once that the soul of Christ died upon the cross How can the soul exist as an individual entity without the body? You absolutely argue against the concept that man has a free and independent spirit D"The SDA teach that Joseph and Mary were not observant Jews? R" Sorry Dave, but who is Adam Clark, is he SDA or what? And what is wrong with offering doves rather than a lamb? A little more commentary from you would be nice at times, I am confused?Way to change the topic away from the question1- Luke says – in 6 or 7 AD - on the 8th day of Jesus’s life 2- Mary did not make the sacrifice required of a Nazrarite - NO 3- Mary gave to poor man’s offering – as the law requires - and then went to Galilee 4- Mathew says Mary and Jesus were still in Bethlehem for up to 2 years – BEFORE 4 BC 5- Mathew says Mary had Gold, Frankincense, and Myrrh - Rich not poor 6- Mathew says Mary and Jesus went to Egypt – No Galilee 7- and to validate this – Christianity relies on 3 Zoroastrian Magi - pagan mystics as proof 8- But Rome also says - don’t you know anything about those Zoroastrians – their pagan And you were supposed to teach me how these two different stories – set almost 10 years apart Prove through the SDA Great Controversy that Jesus was a Nazarite R" You confirm many things about Yashuah as born under the law, inheriting Mary's seed. You also confirm the Nazarite vow can be limited in time or for life. I suspect Jesus was a Nazarite for 8 years, is this so unreasonable? The only two scriptural examples of children being under the vow of a Nazarite – Samuel by the vow of his mother and Sampson by the decree of God- both were Nazarite for life. All other examples of the Jewish vow REQUIRES a voluntary commitment – not possible for Jewish boys less than age 12 Without any evidence – or documentation – or scripture – or anything close to you view within the limits of Judaism – you can assume and make up anything you want to RobertMost of us would rather not deal in make believeProfessor Summer Miller (came on TV in the 1970's) was my favorite teacher as a child, Loved him to bits. Why is it so? Never assume things he said. Your own wordsThe idea that Christ was a Nazarite might make a good sermon to teach a lesson or make a pointThere are a million man-made sermons that butcher scripture to make a point But to offer it as theology is error – it is just an assumption Are you teaching what scripture says – or your man-made assumption Sometimes these man-made sermons become more relevant than the scripture Scripture says – love you fellow man – turn the other cheek – die for your fellow man AND 150 yrs ago both our countries also preached from the pulpit – the only good black or red skin is a dead one so they cannot make more pagan babies Manifest destiny – Praise the Lord R" It's not just the length of time is longer, the quality of living is better. Are you saying it's OK to be stone drunk and everyday drinking alcohol , and still you here the voice of GOD and are saved , so this intoxicating poison is not a missing for you receiving more powers from Jesus every day? Can you reason with a drunk?AND this is why having a discuss with you is not seriousOn guy talks of a glass of wine at communion – or the Seder meal – or even a cold beer on a hot summers day after mowing the lawn – or a Margaretta with a Mexican meal AND you respond with - Are you saying it's OK to be stone drunk and everyday drinking alcohol Just like I say – God test His people So you say – should I beat my wife until she loves me more Serious conversation is it? D"There is nothing wrong with a healthy life style To encourage dietary laws - or preach deitary laws - is just a religious distraction - a thing to do - and has nothing to do with salvation R" Nothing to do with salvation? Really? What is salvation Dave? A divine Person? Was anything dysfunctional created in the garden for us to become dysfunctional with? Nothing. All things were functional, for the body, for the eye and for the hands to use. perfection includes all the physical as well as the spiritual.Salvation – being saved from the lake of Fire – death of spirit Salvation comes after the redemption of sins You are either redeemed by the redeemer and the Divine Pardon Or you are purified (if possible) by Proportional Punishment – before the Divine Pardon is granted D"Yep – from God’s perspective it was 6 days – from man’s perspective it could have been much longer indeed R" No you have the frame of reference wrong, yom on earth is local time, 1 yom = 24 hours of time.You just choose to be different – just so you can yell and complain – and attack believers of all walks by trying to tear down the obvious and replace it with myth You version of events cause Christians to leave the faith daily – because it does not support reality Your version of event does not support Romans 1:19 You version of events only fit the Creation Institutes myology – nothing else Please defend your Don Patton genius guy – you won’t because you can’t He is an 8th grade science buffoon Time is not linear – each and every day could have been any length of time AND – then all the evidence falls into place AND THEN – we do not have to run around denying everything around us to make our doctrines fit the myth Non-linear time, relativity, and the logarithmic days of creationponderingconfusion.com/papers.php?id=relativity
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2021 14:20:04 GMT -5
D" Ecc 3:17 I said in my heart: “The righteous and the wicked, God will judge. For there is a time for every activity and for every deed.” Ecc 3:18 I also said in my heart, “As for the sons of man, God tests them so that they may see that they are but animals.” Ecc 3:19 For the destiny of humankind and the destiny of animals are one and the same. As one dies, so dies the other. Both have the same breath—a human has no advantage over an animal—both are fleeting. Ecc 3:20 Both go to one place. Both were taken from the dust, and both return to the dust. Ecc 3:21 Who knows that the spirit of the sons of man ascends upward and the animal’s spirit descends into the earth?R" I could not agree more, since sin, our flesh is carnal, prone to corruption, mistakes and propensities. Yet you make the mistake to think only the spirit matters, that the spirit is not dependent upon the body. Can a spirit, see, eat, walk and be defiled by biology? Answer no. Only the body sees, eats, walks and is defiled by poisons we ingest. Yet Dave there are numerous text I showed you about the body in heaven. Re 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. A spirit does not need food to eat, but only a spirit in a body requires food to eat, yet we eat food in heaven. Re 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. A spirit does not have form, shape or a forehead, but the spirit in it's body does have shape, form and a forehead, yet in heaven we have a body. Mt 26:26 ¶ And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. A spirit does not require to eat the body, yet Jesus said we are to eat His body in order to obtain His spirit? This saying was so confusing lots of Jewish followers left Jesus, because they did nto understand Him. Therefore the spirit only comes through the body. Ga 6:17 From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus. A spirit has no marks, no form no scars of RA, only a body does, so why does Paul say I bear in my body the marks of Jesus? Because Paul assimilated the body of Jesus literally, but this is meant in a spiritual sense. This sentence we wrote is hard to fathom, no wonder Jews misunderstood Jesus words. How can a man be born of a body twice, Nicodemus said. Jesus said ye must be born again. Was Jesus only talking about a spirit birth or a literal body birth, or something else? If Enoch walked right into heaven in his body, it could not have been his old RA body, so the creative development in the compassion centre of the HS must be a literal body development as well as a spiritual development, otherwise Enoch would have been imperfect in heaven. Yet after 300 years of walking with GOD Enoch was not only sinless in deed, his old body was remade like Adam before Adam sinned, and became perfect like God orginally created it. Ac 13:37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption. (KJV) Jesus body in heaven has no corruption, nor had his body when He died also of corruption, it did not die when Jesus died. Some things are hard to fathom. Jesus ate fish and Thomas placed his finger into Jesus wounds, so the body of Jesus was real. ---------------------- D" The Body return to the dust from where it came The spirit of man / his soul returns to God You deny scriptureR" Whoo...hang on Dave... major Bible verse mistake... Ec 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit "HS/ruwach" shall return unto God who gave it. spirit "HS/ruwach" returns to GOD who gave it, yes. Ps 22:29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul "nephesh". Ps 44:25 For our soul is bowed down to the dust: our belly cleaveth unto the earth. Ps 119:25 ¶ DALETH. My soul cleaveth unto the dust: quicken thou me according to thy word. (KJV) Your soul Dave, does not return to GOD when you die,, it returns to the dust, is very clear. D" Glorify God – who comes into your body as the Comforter – who communes with your spiritR" So what, the HS can empower you with Jesus power, even though the body cells are imperfect and dysfunctional? Suppose you are stone drunk, on drug stupor, or overloaded on sucrose addiction, or overloading the mind on porn, or your hands are a serial killer, yet still the HS works in your every day bring salvational powers into your spirit? You think? Take for example one taste of receiving Bible power, removing demon possession... Mt 17:19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out? 20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. 21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting. Here for example the disciples have spirit of Jesus, but somehow they can't get enough power to remove demons. Does Jesus tell them to increase more faith in the spirit? No, Jesus tells them to pray and fast more in the body, which helps the spirit to get more power. This is a fundamental principle you must understand, the body helps the spirit. D" Correct – REMADE - we will be like He is – changed – appear /disappear – walk through wallsR" yes, biology that does not follow necessarily natural law. D" OK Mr diet restrictions are necessary to be save teacher – teach me this You are captured by the enemy – you are in jail – all you have to eat is red meat Why does this cost you your salvationR" Hmm? The entire Romans 14 is devoted to this question Dave, read it. I once ate kangaroo meat offered to me by a SDA aborigine Pastor, its was his was to make friend with me. So I ate in clear conscience. Daniel is a good example of what to do. D" Will you walk around in the New Earth with only one arm?R" Nothing imperfect resides in heaven, the DNA code is not lost, the code allows you to grow on back, in the last trumpet at the twinkling of the eye, some changes are made that need to be made, including a new arm, if you need one. D" cremated in a fire - at the center of a Nuclear Blast – no body – does this mean there is nothing left of you to save?R" The HS returns to GOD with your memories, including your DNA, and all the encoded code your DNA had, is all kept by the HS, so restoring you as you is a piece of cake. Information is not biology, the DNA is biology, but the information recorded on the DNA is not biology, this information is divine in a sense and immortal in a sense, and this is protected by the HS. Information does not ever come from evolution by the way, so sad for naturalistic mechanisms of evolution. Such a concept does not work. Information only comes from a Mind, the Mind of God. Or your mind, when God allowed you to become a living soul. D" Mar 7:15 There is nothing outside the man that can make him unholy by going into him.R " Yes Divine information is given to you, to develop to add to, or remove from by sin. That is why sin is called missing. You receive divine information and this information is placed into a body of DNA. Only you can spoil the divine information by what you add to the information. Biology does not spoil the information. Adding information happens when you do something using the power of GOD via Faith. Than the information in you increases and you become more like God. Is you do something wrong, there is a missing of information in you and you become less like God. The biology however does impact the channel of reasoning and thinking the mind has over the adding of information from God, so it is important to keep the biology machinery running well, so the mind runs well and your faith is used properly. D" How is bread – a cheap saltine cracker the body of Christ in your view?R" Jesus bread is called in Hebrew "man", his body was manna sent by Jesus for people to eat. Other bread is a poor simile of this bread from heaven. D" If you eat Christ body up – what would be left?R" DO not understand? D" I have seen crackers – gold fish crackers – animal crackers – and a big lump of unleven bread that we each picked up and broke off a corner
I sat and listen to a missionary beg for money so they could send grape plants to Uganda- so the mission could have a vineyard to celebrate Communion correctlyR" Hmm? The bread simile was unleaven. The real bread was manna from heaven, a simile of Jesus words, we eat by faith. Not necessary to use grapes, this is a simile of Jesus blood. Use something else in the culture you have that is a simile of blood, in the countries like PNG, I suggested coconut water, used as blood fusions. D "Ac 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. CONTRADICTORY TO YOUR THEOLOGY D" You claim Jesus Christ was not God in craniate – he was just a manR" I never said that. Jesus was elohiym, fully divine, and added humanity to His divinity. D" You even said once that the soul of Christ died upon the crossR" Yes the soul of Jesus died. D" How can the soul exist as an individual entity without the body?R" It can't. Once the body dies, the soul also dies. I have spoken of my definition of death, it's not the same as most people. D" You absolutely argue against the concept that man has a free and independent spiritR" No I don't. Man has a free and independent spirit, it is called in Hebrew nashamah, this Hebrew word is also used with ruwach at the same time. Gen 7:22 All H3605 in whose nostrils H639 was the breath H5397 H7307 of life, (e-sword) Notice both nashamah and ruwach used both in the phrase "breath of life" Nashamah is man's free and independent spirit, administrated by the ruwach-HS that lives in our soul also. I want to thank you over the years for making this detail more clearly focused in my view, thanks for the discussions my friend. I didn't see the significance of two Hebrew words associated here. D" And you were supposed to teach me how these two different stories – set almost 10 years apart Prove through the SDA Great Controversy that Jesus was a NazariteR" If these things bother you so much, let's go through them, however much of the problem is your understanding of history, not the Bible. In short the details of history , ie the facts are not clear. Perhaps it was meant to be this way? D" All other examples of the Jewish vow REQUIRES a voluntary commitment – not possible for Jewish boys less than age 12R" OK so how do you account for this verse? Lu 1:35 : therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. How did the baby develop without sinning if the propensities of sinning were inherited when Jesus took upon himself Mary's fallen seed? Born of the HS from birth is the only Bible answer there is? Is there any other? The Nazarite vow fulfils this problem. I am open to other suggestions? D" The idea that Christ was a Nazarite might make a good sermon to teach a lesson or make a point There are a million man-made sermons that butcher scripture to make a point But to offer it as theology is error – it is just an assumption Are you teaching what scripture says – or your man-made assumptionR" OK you are right, an assumption on my part. Sorry. But is there a different solution? How did one born of inherited propensities int he womb, not sin before the fetus is even born? My answer is the fetus was born under the protection of the HS from conception, this is what the Nazaritie vow is all about? My premise is we are born condemned, but not sinning. All humans become sinning by choosing to sin. Jesus was born this way, but did not develop sinning. other SDA get around this problem by saying Jesus was born without a condemned body of flesh at all, ie like Adam before the fall. But Scripture says Jesus was born under law, in the condemned seed of Mary, ie a fallen nature. So there are differences of opinions on this idea. D" AND 150 yrs ago both our countries also preached from the pulpit – the only good black or red skin is a dead one so they cannot make more pagan babiesR" good point, our love is two faced. D" Serious conversation is it?R" so Dave if the extreme depravity of the body does affect the decisions of the mind, what about the less extremes? Yesterday I did not pray a prayer promise in the dinning hall, so my flesh feeling down decided to eat a triple chocolate dessert with icecream and cream in it. This is a common example of missing (sin) in my life every day. It's the little opportunities of not seeking faith in jesus that trip you up, not the bigger extremes of the flesh. I do nto drink beer at anytime. However eating chocolate is just as bad as drinking a beer, so I am guilty of the same sinnings. It's the little foxes that spoil our vineyard.... Notice this email today from our Messanic Jews:- ------------------------------------ Almost 1.5 billion Christians (two-thirds of Christianity) have been taught that through a mysterious process the bread itself changes into Yeshua Himself. This is called transubstantiation and is practiced by Catholics, Anglicans, and Orthodox Christians, such as Greek, Ukrainian, Ethiopian, etc. as well as other denominations. However, in the ancient Jewish practice of sacrificial offerings that God instituted, nothing ever transformed from one substance into another substance. Rather, most of the animal offerings were killed and eaten. So, we must ask ourselves from a Jewish Hebraic perspective, what did Yeshua want us to understand when He said, “This is my body”?
Yeshua often spoke about Himself in metaphors, especially in terms of bread and life. He said, “I am the bread of life” and “I am the living bread that came down from heaven.” (John 6:35, 51) He explained to His disciples, “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.” (John 6:63) Yeshua’s words are spirit and life because He is the Word of God in flesh (John 1:1,14). Since this is true, every time Yeshua speaks, we can replace “I” with “Spirit” and “the Word.” We can, therefore, understand His teaching about eating His body and drinking His blood this way: “Unless you eat the flesh [Spirit / Word] of the Son of Man and drink His blood [Spirit / Word], you have no life in yourselves.
Rob" Unless you eat the [Word's] of Jesus and drink His [Spirit ] you have no life in yourselves. That is what faith means. “He who eats My flesh [Spirit / Word] and drinks My blood [Spirit / Word] has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. . . This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread [Spirit / Word], will live forever.” (John 6:53–58) Symbolically consuming the Word of God is not a foreign concept in Judaism. In his book, God In Search of Man: A Philosophy of Judaism, Rabbi Abraham Heschel says that "the goal is for man to be an incarnation of the Torah; for the Torah to be in man, in his soul and in his deeds" (p. 311). Rob" I would say this is what amanuah means, not incarnation per se' But there is another significant meaning attached to Yeshua’s instruction: “Take and eat. This is My body” (Matthew 26:26).
It is only natural, then, that Yeshua would ask His disciples, the priests of His kingdom, to eat the sacrifice, metaphorically speaking of course. When we eat the bread and drink the wine at the Passover meal, we must remember how we have been delivered from an eternal spiritual death that God provided through the sacrifice of Yeshua, “the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world” (John 1:29). With our sins paid for, His sacrifice heals any broken fellowship we had with God so we can freely commune with Him. This is why some call this time of remembrance communion. However, in reality, it is an integral part of the Passover Seder. We need to be open to hearing what the Spirit has to say because He knows it all anyway: “Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence?” asked David (verse 7).
Rob" Correct, hear the spirit of Jesus, not our spirit, but His spirit that must become our spirit. Why do the Messanic supporters term "He (the Spirit) knows it all anyway"? Isn't the Spirit feminine? After confession, the Israelite personally experienced the magnitude of his sin, as he killed the sacrifice: a life had to die as a substitute for his own sin. (Leviticus 4:27–33). The priest then sprinkled the blood of the sacrifice on the altar, which made atonement for the sin. And that is what Yeshua did for us! This is why Paul wrote: “For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until He comes” (1 Corinthians 11:26). But freedom is not without responsibility. God requires from us teshuvah, which in Hebrew means to walk with Him and turn away from our former ways. In early Jewish tradition, it is written that the one who says, “I will sin and repent, I will sin and repent” … [does not depart from this practice easily and convinces himself that he really did not sin thus] an opportunity to repent is not given to him” (Yoma 8, 9; AD 10–200). Rob" What does repent, turn mean? The mind daily has to choose Jesus words all the time, something not easy to do. True repentance means that once we have acknowledged the sin we committed, confessed it before God, and made the sacrifice, we then change our behavior and attitude in a long-term way. Rob" yes change our attitude. ---------------------------- D" Please defend your Don Patton genius guy – you won’t because you can’t He is an 8th grade science buffoonR" I am happy to defend Don Patton. DO you wish to discuss his videos? ------------------------- D" Time is not linear - Simply put, this is the only relative in Einstein's' Special Theory of Relativity. As Gravity or speed, increases, times slows and time and gravity become measurable at different rates at different locationsR" yes, key word, time is different at different rates at different locations.Not time on the same reference, such as earth. the length of yom is fixed. D" Given fact # three in our original quest, that time is not linear, who is to say what time periods passed?R" with reference to earth, on earth, only six yoms passed during creation. Otherwise the defining of a week could not be established. A week is 7 yoms. Schreoder says each yom, relative to heaven may be stretched to seem longer by billions of years, Hmm? a theory, but that is measuring time somewhere else, on earth the time is relative to earth as one yom at a time. D" Relativity predicts that time is relative to the observer, or to the perspective of that observer. So we could just simplify it all by saying that from God's perspective, it was only six days, but to our perspective from today looking back on time it appears that it took billions of years.R" you have relativity the wrong way round, relative to GOD creation took much longer in time, If God was on earth, Creation took six yom of time. Robert Gantry says the granite rocks were formed in milliseconds of local yom time. Shalom
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