Dave"
1Ch 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
To you – this is a sin
To you – there is no way your satan and God can be on the same side
To you – satan is sinning and therefore disobeying God – opposing God and God’s Will
2Sa 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.R I see your point, but who is asking first, for you to determine it was God's will? What happened I suspect is Israel was sinning. And so GOD got angry with Israel sinning, and stirred David to number Israel, so Israel would reap the fruit of their sinning.
But does this mean GOD is the author and doer of sin and sinning? No The torah says GOD allows a provider of sin and sinning to produce this fruit, Israel seeks, and so it is recorded that Satan stirred David to number Israel.
You see this as GOD allowing Satan to do His will. I see this as GOD allowing the provider of sin to produce the sinning such sinners want.
I get the impression sin and sinning is always held in judgment, and each person is judged for the sinning they choose to do. So one cannot blame Satan for each sin, only for the power for a sinner to produce fruits of sinning.
Question #1 – is God actually your satan? No, God can oppose sinners, ie hates their sinning, but loves the sinner, this includes Baalim , where GOD opposed Baalim, this wicked person, but used this man to make a blessing over Israel. In the end Baalim chose to follow Satan in doing more sinning, and did not follow GOD thus doing less sinning.
Question #2 - is satan actually your God? Absolutely not.
Question #3 – How is your satan opposing God or God’s Will?
God's will is for all humans to accept the salvation process, which allows for sinners to support GOD, thus receive daily God's power which overcomes all sinning. Thus the salvation process is a process of becoming sinless. Thus GOD is sinless and everything about GOD is sinless, perfect, pure and without RA.
Any being who promotes sinning, is therefore opposing GOD. This includes the sinner, GOD wishes to save.
Scripture teaches us that the first creatures to do sinning were angels in heaven. These sinning angels were banished to earth, some into prison and some left free to promote a place where sinning abounds, causing darkness.
God decided to war against sin and these sinning angels, by creating a sinless human creature kind as a witness against sin and the sinning angels. Man was created in God's image, we pose, to replace these angels who have decided not to return to GOD, but instead remain fixed in their sinning.
Satan and His sinning angels oppose GOD, because they wish to establish a kingdom without GOD, without rules by GOD, so they are free to sin forever. These sinning angels aslo get humans to sin with them, so the angels are opposing God's process of salvation meant to work for mankind. Instead the world is promoted to become a "heaven on earth" with sin promoted as a "good thing" and so mankind is lost in the world, falls in love with the world, and this condition of sinning is promoted by the sinning angels.
No creature can challenge GOD directly because a creature is not powerful against a Creator, however the principles of love that GOD is, is carefully crafted in ten simple principles that define sin and thus the fruit of sinning. In this way the rebellious nature of sin and sinning is infinitely defined as transgressing the ten words of love. God's nature of love, justice and mercy reacts to these laws of love which govern the entire world in which God and His creation dwells, so that all creatures are bound to uphold these principles. These laws make love a stronger force, and the consequence of sinning is eternal non-existence.
Satan the Devil, was called by Jesus a father of lies and a murderer. These are elements of transgressing the law, and thus are actions that oppose GOD. The fact that Michael and His angels fought at war over the Devil and His angels, is proof of the conflict over sinning. And this conflict in heaven was not the shedding of blood, but the shedding of words, words that were powerful and pure clashed with words that were deceitful and cursing.
Question #4 – How is your satan disobeying God?
1) Father of sin - this is a term to mean the first creature to sin, is a provider of sin and sinning. He was the serpent placed in the garden to tempt sinless humans to sin. The test was to eat of the forbidden fruit, a simple test of obedience to GOD. But Eve chose to listen to the sinning angel and eat the fruit thus disobeyed GOD, and transgressed the ten commands of God.
1) Adam and Eve became their own god (self came over them after sin)
2) They lost God's covering and became naked, so they made their own salvation
3) They were fearful and lost God's power, and used only human powers...
4) They could no longer meet with the Creator every Sabbath in time, and were banished from God
5) They broke away from the heavenly family
6) They wounded God by saying His living was not good enough for them
7) They did yada with another spirit, the spirit of lying, rather than yada with their Lord, they became formicators with the spirit of SIN and the sinning angel.
8) They destroyed the property of Creation by sinning, and wrought unfair RA upon all creation by their sinning.
9) They lied and sought blame and tried to speak deceitfully when God asked them, Where are you?
10) They no longer desired GOD or His Creation, but wanted something else. A world of rebellion and sin.
As you see all 10 principles of love was broken when Eve and Adam both sinned. These are the same sins the sinning angels did when they too left the Father of lights and left their first estate as Jude tells us.
In the garden the serpent-Satan lied to Eve, saying trick answers to questions, you will not dying die, He said but be like GOD knowing Good and Evil.
Question: Does GOD yada evil or RA? Does GOD yada SIN and SINNING? for all eternity, both forwards in time and backwards in time? I would answer no, otherwise GOD would be a sinner, and a sinner of all sinners, to yada all sin and all forms of sin.
The tree in the garden is called the
daath of good and evil,
not the yada of good and evil.
Yada is a term for intimacy with knowledge and sex, it is the internalizing of words...
I suspect the Devil lied saying GOD yada good and evil. The scripture says GOD creates RA, creating the evil a sinner demands, is different to actually yada the sinning before the sinner chooses the sinning. Otherwise God would know all your choices before you choose, and thus would personally yada all sinning a sinner chooses to do? Is this possible? I am not sure... it says God knows all things... does this mean all the sinning I choose before I even existed? Don't know, What do you think Dave?
Question #5 –
If 1 Chr 21 if filled with disobedience – ra – and sin with your satan; doesn’t this make your God of 2 Sam 24 disobedient to Himself – doing ra – and sinning?
Hmm? You have to read the cause the affect carefully, not read the verses as they are written, because Hebrew does not write in sequenced time, but as Jeff explains block logic.
These principles are
God is not mocked, a man reapeth what he sows. This means if sinner chooses sin, than GOD allows the sinning to come, from the medium of sinning. This seems like GOD is using the sinning as a tool under his will, and there is cases of this being valid, God's unconditional will and God's conditional will, God chooses events to further His cause and sometimes allows sin to run for a course so that good comes from it. He is able to see forward in time, where a sinner cannot. God sees a bigger picture, whereas we cannot. So in our world, sinning seems unfair, whereas in God's world the sin running the way it did was to make the best out of a worse condition.
Who is the father of sin and sinning? Clearly the devil and Satan is, Jesus told us this, and He was the first sinning agent in heaven, an angel who chose to do sinning.
D
Obviously satan is a servant of God help to facilitate God’s Will on earthR Yes it can seem that way, as you have presented this idea, but GOD is not mocked by SIN or Sinning sinners who sin, including angels who sin. God even used Cyrus, a person of wickedness to do good, even in Babylon God used wicked kings to do good. God can even use sinning angels who naturally do sin and ra, that is their nature, but unwittingly their sinning is used to promote good in the eyes of the Lord, because GOD has an advantage over the Devil and this sinning, God sees into the future, but Satan cannot do this.
One day Sinning angels will be no more and sinning humans will be no more. All will be perfect and pure and no RA will exist, no more Sin.
Until that day we have to respect GOD and the way God deals with sin and sinners.
One day we the saved, will spend 1000 years investigating these very questions in infinite detail, and if a single event with sin and sinning is allowed unjustifiably God will prove to be a unfair tyrant, but such investigation will not prove this. Instead every RA is see for what it is and God is love in all the dealings. Imagine a 1,000 million people investigating every act and thought of every person vindicating GOD as a provider of love.
D"
Question #6 – God sent satan upon Job, Satan did his best to oppose Job, a lot of ra happened; how is this an example of your satan being disobedient to God? Opposing God wishes / Will?God declared Job upright and blameless before Satan. Satan chose to sin against this idea by making false claims. (Satan was a false witness before GOD, lying to GOD)
You are wrong God
You are not allowing me to tempt Job
You hedge Him against me
Job serves you for what He gets from you, Job does not love you
Satan was attacking the process of salvation.... what is this process? Where the human serves one master, rather than two masters. The other master is Baal, Self. Where does Self come from? SIn. How did this self get switched on?
The DNA is a control centre for our genes and our habits of propensities. The Hebrew word aven has this idea. These genes are like seeds, that influence the human soul.
Once a human asked the Lord Jesus where did the tares come from? ANd Jesus said an enemy sowed them among the wheat.
It is my understanding that once Adam sinned, the Devil and Satan entered him, and changed some of the DNA genes as a switch, to make these genes run badly, causing a propensity for further sinning, and hence the self master of Satan, rather than choose GOD as the natural master. This now causes all humans born of Eve with an unfair advantage, the aven propensities of self, naturally choose sinning and listen to Satan and sinning angels, rather than listen and choose GOD. Thus the flesh is corrupted by SIN and changes were made by Satan agencies.
Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Why is there
fear in humans for God, if there is nothing against GOD causing fear?
Perfect love casts out fear, scripture says, so
Job had no fear of GOD.
So the
Devil is lying here, and making false claims about GOD and His salvation system. It is not as perfect as you claim, Satan says. Let me destroy all your blessings upon Job and Job will curse you to his face. Such a suggestion is breaking (8) thou shalt not destoy God property and blessings shall thou not steal. Satan destroyed all the blessings God gave Job.
This is an example of Satan wounding Job, trying to remove his chance of salvation by GOD.
D Question #7 -
If satan is not disobedient to God – why is it a sin to obey God?
R Oh, so working in your boundaries, is evidence GOD is using you for His will and the agent is obeying GOD?
Did GOD say to Satan the lying medium, do not sin against Job? No
God simply said, I have set boundaries for you, do all within your power within these limitations. And Satan went.
Where does the power of doing evil come from? Who keeps Satan alive? While Satan murders Job's children and steals the blessings of God away from Job?
And you term this as Satan obeying GOD?
Does Satan naturally murder people, taking their living, so they cannot be saved? Yes
What about the righteous, is Satan allowed to murder these? Only if GOD allows Satan.
Huss was burned in the flames of fire. Who caused the burning torture? Satan did. Who allowed this? God did. How is this evidence Satan is used by God as a tool. Sometimes the burning of Satan to end a life, is used by GOD to promote faith in others, hence seems like a tool of RA is used as a tool for TOV. God uses RA and the agents of SIN as a tool for His purpose of salvation, only because GOD sees into the future, and Satan cannot.
John the Baptist was beheaded, and GOD allowed Satan to do this to John in order to discourage John and get him to sin, John didn't sin, and God used the ra from Satan to promote faith in others seeking salvation.
D
Question #8 – If your satan is sinning in Job and God sent him; doesn’t this make your God a sinner?R Hmm? If you have a SIN problem and a WAR on earth over the kingdom Satan, and the kingdom of salvation by Jesus, how can you allow a fair conflict so both parties are allowed to voice their views without tyrant control by GOD?
How much can GOD get involved in this war of sin?
Since Satan was the first angel who sinned, and the lying medium GOD allows when sinners want powers from their sinning, does this mean Satan is the father of sinning, or GOD is the agent of sinning? Where does the power of sinning come from? From the person themselves doing the selfish sinning? Or from a higher being?
What is this question asking? If GOD is the source of your living, and thus GOD is behind the source of your power, how you use or abuse that power is up to you, not GOD. But nevertheless GOD is the overall controller of the sin problem.
Just because GOD sends a sinner, does not mean GOD approves of them as a sinning person.
You ask Dave, would GOD intentionally want an evil creature to destroy God's process of salvation in humans?
You say it helps to develop free will choice? Hmm? Doesn't God know all things? How does it help GOD? It doesn't.
Does it help the creature? If the creature is born in a perfect world, how is tempting the creature to also know a RA world, helping them to appreciate a perfect world without RA? It doesn't.
For example I don't smoke. Making me smoke is not going to help smoke or not smoke. I choose not to smoke because 6th principle of love says to respect living, and smoking does not respect living, it harms living. SO how does tempting me to smoke helping me to more strongly choose God, it doesn't. It would only broaden my experience, now I know both bad and good, but it learning more, a better attitude towards God? Not really, but learning more about God does help us love God more, perhaps? A child loves God innocently without much knowledge and does fine in its living.
There is much more one could say, its a mystery speaking about such things.... What is love? What does love look like? And how does love function? Does love need RA?
D Question #9 –
the serpent of Gen 3 is a deceiving spirit, the deceiving spirit of 1 Kings 22 is a volunteer in service of the Lord?
Obviously the deceiving spirit is a volunteer in the service of God help to facilitate God’s Will on earthR Hmm? seems that way to you.
Question why does GOD require a deceiving spirit? God doesn't require one.
Only a sinner does. Look at 1 kings 22 and ask yourself, who wanted the false prophet?
a sinning King did.
Where did SIN come from? Not from GOD.
Not even designed by GOD to even exist.
Yet provision was made for SIN, only as a choice. This can't be, because if a creature should sin, how does that sin make fruit, so the sinner sees their sin? So God has to create the sin, the sinner wants to achieve, and in mercy allow this sin to occur.
Since SIN has only happened once, and is never allowed to happen a second time.
Since SIN came for the first time, how do sinless creatures know what sin is. Here is a problem with your view already, you only have humans as the only creature with free will.
Than when sin happens , no body questions sin. Thus you have God creating sin intentionally, and this is your coping mechanism.
For me,
God has billions of creatures with free will, on other worlds, all sons of God, as well as angels, who come to GOD each Sabbath to meet and greet. Thus when one creature sins, this is a problem to the billions of sinless beings looking on.
This is what Job is about,
meetings of other unfallen worlds meeting God and with Satan, a prince of earth representing the fallen world. It's an important meeting, and represents a sovereign God over all creation.
When God created humans in the fallen world with these banished sinning angels, they were sent and created as sinless to witness to the other unfallen worlds about the problem of SIN, making earth a central stage for others to look on.
The serpent was not sent by GOD to be a deceiving agency in the Garden of Eden, because Adam and Eve were sinless, and had to remain sinless in order to prove the sinning angels were wrong in their claims about GOD.
I am glad you agree the serpent is deceiving, that
my friend makes Satan a doer of sinning.
Now is this creature sent to deceive the world and remove humans from salvation?
2Pe 3:9 ¶ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
How many humans does God wish to save? All
How many does Satan want to allow God to save? None
Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
Satan could not even find a single sin in Jesus who came to earth to prove Satan wrong, that humans born under Adam could in fact live a sinless life from birth.
Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
Why is Satan a prince of earth? Because he took the crown from Adam by making Adam sin.
Ro 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation,
When Adam sinned a court ruling is heaven was changed. The crown went from Adam to Satan.
Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Jesus died to regain the crown from Satan. Where does the LAW mention this?
Ex 21:22 ¶ If "Satan or any Sinner" strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, 23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
The penalty for SIN is eternal death. To satisfy the one condemned to eternal death, one must offer his own eternal life for their eternal death. Hence only a being divine could satisfy this law. The one who does the mischief also dies for ever. This is why Jesus died, because the penalty for sin is infinitely huge.
Satan tried first to get Jesus to sin.
Finally Satan tried to kill Jesus (what the law said must happen) but Satan chose the death to be evil and torture, not voluntary and olah, in the hope Jesus would shrink from losing His own divinity in shaowl (hell). But Jesus went through it all, and than Satan tried to hold Jesus in the grave ... but alas could not... this meant Satan was doomed to die.
D
Question #10- Why is it a sin to obey God?R It is not a sin to obey GOD if GOD asks you do do things according to His torah teachings.
It would be a sin if a supporter of GOD transgressed the laws of love, claiming this is what GOD wants as His will. God would not disobey His own laws, and ignore them. God must be predictable and logical. Otherwise God is just a tyrant and a sinner as well.
Once God asked a prophet to bake using human dung. This is a clear violation of the torah, and the prophet refused. Why did God ask? To test the prophet. If any person thinks it is OK to break God's laws while obeying God, is making a false misleading claim. God is love always and never does anybody harm or wrong.
D
Question #11 – we have been all through the 23 + 49 verses about satan, in each verse satan is opposing man in the service of the Lord – just like Job;
Your satanology rest up Rev 12:7 the word war and two words from Ezk 28 that are not even in the same sentence AND the tradition of Fallen angels from the Catholic Catechism (that predates SDA, yet the SDA use it word for word)
Obviously – the bulk of scripture does not support you satan doctrine
Why do you believe doctrine, written by men, the precepts of men, is more valid than scripture?R Hmm? a big question.
Who says there must be a clear majority of verses to explain a concept about GOD? Does God keep on repeating major themes over and over for dull ears? Does God make salvation so easy to fathom that none are without doubt?
Or
Does God allow sentences that can be doubted? Sentences that people might argue do not matter? Sentences that cause the sinner to lose focus?
What does Scripture say?
Mt 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mt 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
The Bible is hidden intentionally so only the true seeker looks and finds, the others do not find, nor do they seek.
How many verses speak of salvation correctly ? One
How many verses list the Steps to Jesus , so we are saved daily by the compassion centre of the Holy Spirit? One
How many verses speak of the crown Adam lost to Satan? One
How many verse speak of cherub sinning ? One
How many verses speak of the war in heaven over sinning ? One
How many verses speak of the third coming of Jesus which is used to validate the manner of Jesus second coming, so supporters are not deceived ? One
How many verses speak of Einsteins idea of time as relative ? One
How many verses define Elohiym as a power ? One
You get the idea, GOD does not write his truth over the over as repeated messages so the dull readers get the idea from a majority of sentences saying the same thing. God speaks and man listens.
D"
Obviously – the bulk of scripture does not support your satan doctrine
Explain to me why having creatures tempting humans to sin, thus negating the process of being saved, is not opposing salvation?
You say it is:
biblehub.com/text/exodus/15-2.htmI notice reading the Hebrew a lack of prefixs and the use of the Yud meaning "my", but sometimes meaning "of my", why not just "my". And lots of so called construct states, noun side by nouns.
Ex 15:2 The LORD is my strength and song, " he is become" my Yashuah: he is my Strong Authority, and I will prepare him an habitation; Eloah my Father, and I will exalt him.
I see two masculine names of the Divine Family here, Eloah Father and Yashuah-salvation.
One is termed Yahh, the other YHWH, but this is a scribe notation?
Ex 15:9 The enemy said, I will pursue, I will overtake, I will divide the spoil; my lust shall be satisfied upon them; I will draw my sword, my hand shall destroy them.
Notice the deliverance is written for Israel, from an enemy, not just Pharoah, but also an enemy behind Pharoah. It's a cosmic conflict.
Ex 15:13 Thou in thy mercy hast led forth the people which thou hast redeemed:
Not all Israel was Israel, Paul says in Romans. Here many were saved, but not all were willing to support God daily.
Ex 15:25 And he cried unto the LORD; and the LORD shewed him a tree, which when he had cast into the waters, the waters were made sweet: there he made for them a statute and an ordinance, and there he proved "nacah" them,
26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.
nacah H5254 "in positive sense means to test one to love"
Written sometimes in it's opposite sense, meaning to "tempt one to sin"
Dave writes that nacah is used to test supports if they love the Lord with all their heart and soul and might. Indeed, since we are sinners, we need this kind of testing:
Why?
Ho 13:1 ¶ When Ephraim spake trembling, he exalted himself in Israel; but when he offended in Baal, he died.
2 And now they sin more and more, and have made them molten images of their silver, and idols according to their own understanding, all of it the work of the craftsmen: they say of them, Let the men that sacrifice kiss the calves.
3 Therefore they shall be as the morning cloud, and as the early dew that passeth away, as the chaff that is driven with the whirlwind out of the floor, and as the smoke out of the chimney.
4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.
5 ¶ I did know thee in the wilderness, in the land of great drought.
6 According to their pasture, so were they filled; they were filled, and their heart was exalted; therefore have they forgotten me.
When we come to Jesus saved by Jesus, we are driven by two masters, one of those masters is Baal, the Hebrew noun for self, the power we worship as an idol. So Jesus is not an excuse to do more and more sinning so grace shall abound. we are to let self die, but this takes time and effort. Hence the reason for testing. Our love is weak, like dew is vanishes under heat, like smoke it is lost by the winds of strife.
Later the problem is explained ijn verse 6, we break the first command, and have other Masters before God's face. We forget God and rise up in pride. We do this especially when things are going well with GOD.
And that's what happened after 3 days of being with GOD, they forgot God and became bitter. They lost their first love. They were lukewarm.
Now do sinless beings already in love of GOD fully, require further testing? The answer must be no. Otherwise GOD is never fully satisfied with us, and your archons will tempt/test humans to develop loving God forever? Surely once one is trained to love fully, the nacah testing is finished? Isn't this what happened to Job?
Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
God was supremely pleased with Job.
But
Satan wasn't. In fact negative beings are never satisifed.
Lu 15:17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
Notice nacah turned the prodigal son around. But what was the son doing that says it never has enough? It is sin
Pr 30:16 The grave; and the barren womb; the earth that is not filled with water; and the fire that saith not, It is enough.
Sinning never satisfies, but is always fun to do, especially for those steeped in propensities for that sin. It become our pet sins, that never says 'It is enough'.
Mr 14:41 And he cometh the third time, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: it is enough, the hour is come; behold, the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
This verse smacks of Job,
Jesus was betrayed and handed over to Satan, and Satan treated Jesus like Job, even to killing a sinless man.
Sinless humans in heaven will never be tested, nor will they ever choose sinning, they are always fully supporting God and His words of power in their lives.
Nacah is only used on sinners to help them overcome the Hosea 13:6, the problem of getting too many blessings from God.
Suppose Satan had got Jesus to do one sin, than Satan and his sinning angels along with Jesus would have lived forever in sinning. Love would become a false divine power.
But love is a divine power that overcomes sin and sinning and even Satanic rulers. Even born under woman of propensities, Jesus did not sin nor chose to sin, He remained supporting His Father's words all the time. And yet Satan did nacah Jesus, in the negative sense, tempted Jesus to sin. If you have a being tempting another being to sin, that makes you an enemy and a sinner, and a extremely wicked person. For surely Satan was not testing Jesus to love His Father more, Jesus was fully supporting His Father. SO the opposite sense of nacah is meant, Satan was tempting Jesus to sin. That makes Satan an opposer of GOD.
Yet your coping mechanism is to say, Satan was only testing the humanity of Jesus, not the divinity of Jesus?
Ask these stones to become bread? Not something a human has faith for. Only a divine Being could ask for this.
Mt 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. 10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. 11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
Notice Devil-Satan and his angels left Jesus, and Father-God and his angels came and ministered unto God's Son. Two groups here, the same two groups here:-
Re 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Satan tried to deceive Jesus also, but failed. The war in heaven continues on earth.
Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
In the end Satan and His angels are cursed into the fire, to be no more.
D"
Why do you believe doctrine, written by men, the precepts of men, is more valid than scripture?You follow trinity a Catholic doctrine, even though you don't. You follow modalism. You follow Indian traditions of incarnation, Catholic ideas of hell and torment.
Just because man invents fables doesn't make Scripture a fable. What religions did Satan invent before the Flood I wonder?
D
Question #12 – satan existed all through the age of Israel – as a servant of the Lord doing hard jobs, absolutely no one saw your satan as a strong authority until Rome invented it. Why can’t you see your satanology as a Roman invention to misdirect the attention away from our real struggle and just focus upon your satan strong authority thast is equal in power with God that you argue your satan can hold his own in a battel with Christ/God
R you question is contradictory. Jews do not accept Satan through all Israel, but you write as Satan was already here as an opponent of GOD.
D
Why can’t you see your satanology as a Roman invention to misdirect the attention away from our real struggle R what is our real struggle Dave? Something you are not willing to discuss? Amanuah
The steps of salvation, in getting amanuah daily.
Walking in the spirit daily, in the compassion centre of GOD.
This is our real struggle, and you do not discuss these....My entire website discusses this, how to get Jesus in our life every day...
Personally I do not care for Satan or his deception, daily I try to support God and overcome any sinning. That is my struggle, fighting the good fight of faith... but NO you push a different view, know the enemy you say, the archons, who cares about them?
D "
Question #13 – Eph 6:12 Principalities (archon) our real struggle; why do you put out so much effort to deny our real struggle? You want to pretend they don’t exist. You preach loud and clear just keep your focus upon satan?R see
archons are our real struggle? How pathetic
Daily I pray to GOD to support His words and surrender my powers of self to Him, in the presence of others at work, I forget who I am and speak as a self empowered person, only rarely do I ask God, what do you want me to say to them now? Lord let me speak your words, not mine. The real struggle is the good fight of amanuah, faith.
D ".
You preach loud and clear just keep your focus upon satan?
R No Dave, I don't. I do not care for Satan. I only seek Jesus. In all my posts to you, I am surprised you do not see any being opposing man, is in fact also opposing God. That is very simple for me, but impossible for you. He who is not with me Jesus says is against me, he who does not gather, scatters.
We could have discussed 1200 posts on how to get Jesus flowing in us daily in ever increasing doses of HIs power. But no, instead you focus on the archons...
D "
Question #14 – the ahl is filled with ‘other gods’ / non-God gods – 33 in total
Who are they? Are they all just you one and only satan?
R Yes different market brands of the same product. The war in heaven was over religion, religion is defined by the rules you choose to live by. How many religions were in heaven? Answer two. How many religions are on earth? Dozens. WHy is that? Satan has different markets for different tastes of people, just stop them seeking God. clash knowledge with knowledge and people soon stop reading and caring.
Question #15 – around 630AD Mohammad gathered all these ‘other gods’ of the Lavant and placed them in the Kabal, declaring that Allah was the supreme leader of them all; Who is Allah?
Allah in Hebrew is spelled as ALAH, this is the Hebrew word eloah, the Hebrew word meaning Father in heaven. The Hebrew word can also mean pagan father god as well, it depends upon context. So is there an ALAH in heaven, yes. Is this the same as ALAH on earth with muslims? NO
We have an ALAH on earth mentioned in the Scriptures
Hab 1:11 Then shall his mind change, and he shall pass over, and offend, imputing this his power unto his ALAH.
There are two religions that worship an alah god on earth, Catholics and Muslims, both are together in secret societies. They are one. Both temples exist almost side by side.
D"
Question #16 – The shedim are mentioned in the ahl – so is Lillith – just where do they fit in your doctrine in relation to your satan? Please post SDA documentation!
R SDA and EGW do not speak of shedim and lillith- Hmm?
adventistbiblicalresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/Spiritual-Warfare-Deliverance.pdfSeventh-day Adventists believe that behind the scenes of earthly affairs,
invisible, supernatural forces of good and evil are engaged in cosmic warfare for
the control of every human being (Eph 6:12). We believe in the existence of a
literal, personal devil, now named Satan, who once was a perfect (and heaven’s
highest) angel (Ezek 28:15). Scripture further declares that Satan experienced a
moral fall, took one-third of all the holy angels with him (Rev 12:4), and at the
conclusion of that first war in heaven he was literally, physically, ejected,
eventually coming down to planet earth (vss. 7-9). Here he continues yet today,
diligently waging warfare against the kingdom of God and all that is good and
worthwhile in the universe. We believe that today under Satan’s immediate, direct
control there are multitudes of evil spirits, fallen angels, demons, allied with him
in this “great controversy between Christ and Satan.”2
Why is this so? If demons were present, why were no steps taken for their
expulsion? One answer suggested by scholars is that (Jehovah) is, from beginning
to end, seen as so fully in control of all situations and circumstances that the evil
spirits are always seen as completely under the regulation and control of Jehovah,
thus their preemptive activity is totally precluded. The problem of demonology, as
far as the world of the Hebrews of antiquity is concerned, is therefore merely a
peripheral one, completely overshadowed by the commanding presence and total
authority of Jehovah.
3
A crucial distinction needs to be recognized at this point between the
attitude toward the existence of demons by the Jews and that of their non-Hebrew
neighbors. The Babylonians, for example, saw every illness as traceable to the
work of demons (some Christians today would concur in this view). The Israelites,
however, recognized that although demons indeed might cause illness, not every
such manifestation is properly linked to their direct activity.
The typical non-Hebrew dweller in Mesopotamia lived his life constantly in
fear and danger of evil spirits. Amulets were widely favored to ward off such
encounters, but the chief recourse for protection was found in the form of
ceremonies of incantation, administered by a professional priest/exorcist. In the
ceremony (not unlike the practice of some in “deliverance ministry” today) the
officiating priest sought to discover which demons were troubling the afflicted,
the better to conduct successfully the appropriate required ceremony. The ritual
not only utilized certain incantation rites but also employed specific verbal
formulae blurred magic, religion, and disease4
The absence of exorcistic ritual from the Old Testament points to the power
of Yahweh over all evil. This focus on the salvation of God points us away from
excessive preoccupation with the demonic.
And the relationship between the use of demonic terminology to
characterize disease, increasingly popular in certain “deliverance” circles today,
may merely reflect an oversensitiveness and superstitious conscience. It,
unfortunately, goes beyond the biblical data to label uncritically all or most
disease as directly caused by Satan.5
The casting out of demons was not an end in itself; the vacuum left by the
departing devils must be filled by positive good—God’s presence—lest the
demons return to an empty place and make it worse than it was before. And the
casting out of demons can only be properly understood in the overall context of
the motif of the kingdom of God—and His kingdom in men’s hearts.
It appears that the Scriptures are concerned lest potentially sensationalistic
phenomena be overly magnified. In the case of “speaking in tongues” it is
implicitly permitted, but tightly regulated, and placed last in all of the catalogues
of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.6
We are told, further, by this same writer, that it is indeed “important” for us
to understand Satan’s snares, that we may escape them today. In his “last
campaign” Satan will move upon “some deceived souls” to advocate the idea that
he does not really exist as a personal entity.4
Indeed, one of his snares is the “subtle,” “mischievous,” and “fast-spreading”
“error” that “Satan has no existence as a personal being; that the name is used in
Scripture merely to represent men’s evil thoughts and desires”5
—merely a
rhetorical device to personify evil. And this prediction, made more than a century
ago, is more than amply fulfilled today by modern humanism.
Whatever the popular concept may be today, the testimony 7
The story of Jesus’ casting out a host of demons from the two men of Gadara
(Mark 5:1-20) provides five facts about the existence and activity of Satan and his
evil angels, evidence that we need today to counterattack his deception that he and
his cohorts do not have a personal existence:
1. Their reality. They are real personalities. On this one singular occasion,
Jesus entered into a conversation with them (which, incidentally, they initiated).
2. Their number. They declared, in answer to Christ’s demand that they
identify themselves, “My name is Legion: for we are many” (vs. 9). In Christ’s
day a Roman legion might number somewhere between three and five thousand
soldiers.
3. Their organization. Like the Roman legions, “Satan’s hosts . . . are
marshalled in companies, and the single company to which these demons
belonged numbered no less than a legion.”8
4. Their supernatural power. The madmen broke the chains restraining
them; and the swine (into which the demons were subsequently cast) were swept
down a cliff to their destruction in the sea below.5. Their malignity. The bleeding, disfigured bodies and distracted minds of
the two Gadarenes well illustrate what Satan will do when given an opportunity to
“possess” the bodies and minds of men.
Satan, then, is a real, personal being.
Does that mean that everything that is strange and bizarre in our world today
is evidence of the direct operation of Satan and his demons? Should we not battle
against these personal attacks by the enemy of all souls?8
The informed Christian, we believe, will avoid two equally serious but
opposite extremes as he/ she relates to baffling phenomena which appear to be of
supernatural origin:
1. A “Satan-made-me-do-it” mentality, in which Satan is identified as the
immediate cause of every misfortune and every sinful deed; or
2. A virtual denial of the existence of Satan’s “supernatural” operation in
our otherwise “natural” world.
Either position is unrealistic, and is fraught with peril. Let us note why.
While we believe that ultimately all evil is traceable to Satan, the originator
of sin, we do not believe that Satan or his evil angels are always directly
responsible for every deviation from what we have come to understand as
“normal” in human experience. Many illnesses, for instance, whether physical or
mental, are simply the result of genetic inheritance, or living in a world of sin, or
simply the natural consequences of our disobedience to God-given laws of health
and well-being.
9
There is a devil—as we have already declared—and he “must not be allowed to
get the better of us; we know his wiles all too well” (2 Cor 2:11, New English
Bible).
It also appears that the father of lies in some cases operates supernaturally by
simulating “natural” diseases so closely as to render them almost
indistinguishable from ordinary diseases. Because of these considerations it
behooves each of us to exercise extreme caution and prudence in dealing with
cases of alleged demon possessionD"
Question #17 - if you are a Christian and believe
The nephesh does not die when the the biology dies,…
Isa 53:12 Jesus hath poured out his soul unto death:
So Jesus soul it says here died for our sins,
R Of course man has a soul, only when the man is living. This begs the question, where does the soul go when a man dies. It does not go anywhere, the soul just ceases to exist.
R The soul is not biology... that is an insult to GOD.... the soul is a term describing living energy.
D"
Absolute double speak – zero seriousness – zero academic honesty – absolute contrary to your own wordsI have explained this already, the box, the nails and the wood.
God made man of the nails and the wood, and breathed into the nails and the wood, hammered the boards together and man became living energy (nephesh). Now
man became a "box". When man dies, the nails fall off the boards, the boards rot into the ground and the "box" is no longer a "box".
What happened to the "box" ? Nothing. The term nephesh is just a term to describe the relationship of you in a relationship to GOD, and now you're living. When your relationship with GOD is over, your living relationship with GOD also ends, and that very days your thoughts perish. The term "dies" means to be separated from GOD.
Jesus soul was poured out upon the death of His soul, means He was separated from His Father and the HS upon death on the Cross, but his biology did not decay, meaning his own divinity keep HIM from NOT living. Divinity is always living. But the separation of the divine family, wrought an end to communion, and this causes the nephesh to die. (Meaning to be separated, and thus come to an end)
Too many questions Dave...up to question 18.
Can the forum handle so great a single post?
I will get back to your questions....
Shalom