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Post by Dave on Jul 1, 2020 16:38:50 GMT -5
I feel compelled to make a comment about Jewish LawAll the time I spend in Christendom - I never understood what it meant to be Jewish Why did God introduce Himself to Abraham - rescue Israel from Egypt - or vanquish all enemies within Canaan - so the WHOLE WORLD WOULD KNOW that the God of Abraham, Isaac, ad Jacob as the One True God - the CreatorAs a Churchian - I was confused - How was Israel to accomplish evangelizing to the whole world without a call to evangelize?I know nothing of Australia - yet I know the Black man there, the world largest Rock, kangaroos, the Great Barrier reef, and the outback - oh ya - and Mel Gipson and Paul Hogan My wife had no clue what America was like until she got here - but she knew 4th of July, Super bowl, George Washington, and General MacArthur What did the ancient world really know about Israel6 times a year the Jews dressed up like clownsNo one looked like this in ancient days In Mat 10 - Jesus tells His disciples not even to worry about having two shirts 6 times a year the Jews dresses up like clowns and put on paradeEvery year the same 6 parades played out in front of the entire ancient world 1- Rosh Hashnah - new year - beginning 2- Yom Kippur - day of atonement - man must stop and consider - do I need to atone? 3- Sukkot - two separate feast - two separate rituals - God Tabernacle with man - twice Jew would say - once in a tent and one in the Temple Christians see it as - once in a building and once as a man 4- Purim - no matter how uneven the odds - salvation comes from the Lord 5- Pesach - three separate Passover feast - three separate Passover rituals 6- Followed in 50 days by Shavout (Pentecost - penta = 50) - ‘Feast of Weeks’ Jews celebrate the harvest and the day the Torah came down from Mt Sini to man - Christians celebrate Pentecost - the day the Torah came down to man heart - Born Again - awakened to our communion / fellowship / communication with GodThis parade was played out before the whole world for 1500 years preparing the way for Jesus ChristThis is our mission on earth - to remember and share / educate / enlighten the worldPracticing Jews performed these parades every year for 15000 years - because they were supposed to Religious Jews come to understand the Gospel in the Law - and perform these parades to serve the LordJas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but have not works? can that faith save him? Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked and in lack of daily food, Jas 2:16 and one of you say unto them, Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; and yet ye give them not the things needful to the body; what doth it profit? Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it have not works, is dead in itself. Jas 2:18 Yea, a man will say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith apart from thy works, and I by my works will show thee my faith. Jas 2:19 Thou believest that God is one; thou doest well: the demons also believe, and shudder. This is the point of Judaism - serve the Lord - do God’s Will - be the instrument of His handThe Chroistian song says - if we are the Body then why arn't His hands reasching, why are His feet walking, and why arn't His lips teachingThis is our mission on earth during our souljourn - a witness to the Lord for the whole world to seeMat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved. Is Jesus speaking to the Christians or the Jews? Or are they one and the same group - humans Who has been more hated than the Jews - which culture best fits the term ENDURETH
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2020 5:32:39 GMT -5
Anyone who become saved by Jesus, becomes a Hebrew. Hebrew means to Cross Over.
SO I deeply respect Jews, because we are very similar.
Why Hebrews?
Hebrew was the Edenic language.
Hebrew is the mother of all languages, including English and Chinese.
The first Christians was possibly the Ancient Chinese, I feel GOD called Abram too, and His words were written down, chosen by GOD.
But why?
Dunno... good question...
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Post by Dave on Jul 2, 2020 10:01:00 GMT -5
I deeply respect Jews, because we are very similar. The Jews only have One God who is in absolute control of everything The Jews have a satan that is in the service of God helping facilitate God’s will The Jews believe that when the Messiah comes the Torah will be fulfilled
You have 3 gods – and then a war between two gods And your second god changed everything God planned by his own free will Therefore your satan god is in control and we are all living satan’s will Because your second god overthrew God Will and changed God plan And – Jesus was the Messiah – and he came to cancel the Torah – changed everything So now Christianity is an entirely different religion – with its own prophets AND Rome now has the authority to tell both the Jew and the Christin what is scripture
What about the Jews do you respect? In what ways are you similar?
The first Christians was possibly the Ancient Chinese, I feel GOD called Abram too, and His words were written down, chosen by GOD. But why? Why Hebrews? Dunno... good question...
You should read more scripture Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Abraham knew the Torah before it was orally given or written Abraham – got it
The first Christians was possibly the Ancient Chinese
The First Christian was Adam Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
There were many Christians in the ahl
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2020 13:51:22 GMT -5
Dave this is perhaps the best source I could find on this topic www.haaretz.com/archaeology/.premium.MAGAZINE-do-jews-believe-in-the-devil-1.6588731Do Jews Believe in the Devil?
Satan didn’t arise from Hell fully formed. The concept of an ultimate Evil One was apparently borrowed from the Persians and continued to evolve throughout antiquity By Elon Gilad Oct 23, 2018 When Jews believed in multiple gods, there was no difficulty in explaining why bad things happen to good men. A vast array of spirits, demons, evil gods and things that go bump in the night could be blamed for their misfortune. But once God was elevated to supreme and then the only god, the problem became vexing: Was God unfair? First Temple Period (700-586 B.C.E.): Satan the lawyer
In the early books of the Bible, which were written roughly in the First Temple period, there is no Prince of Darkness, just demons called se’irim. Some had names, such as Belial and Azazel, but none reigned supreme. We do find the word satan in these early biblical books, but they do not refer to a demon. Rather, "satan" is just a proper noun denoting an adversary in a martial or judicial setting. For example, a foreign king opposing the king of Israel was said to be a satan:
"And the Lord stirred up an adversary unto Solomon, Hadad the Edomite" (1 Kings 11:14).
Clearly, the Bible does not have the Prince of Darkness in mind here, but rather a man of flesh and bone.
It is true that the Bible also refers to supernatural beings as being satans. For instance, in the story of Balaam in the Book of Numbers, God becomes angry and sends an "angel of the Lord" to stand "in the way for an adversary against him [Balaam]" (Numbers 22:22). In this case too, we are not talking about Satan with a capital S,...
Early Second Temple Period (530-450 B.C.E.): Devil the Bob
By the time the Book of Job was conceived, apparently in the early Second Temple period around 2,500 years ago, we can see a slight movement towards the development of Satan as an evil being. But he still isn't Satan with a capital S. The book itself is an essay on the problem of evil, probably written in response to the destruction of Judah and the Temple. Job, we are told, is “perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil,” yet he faces terrible calamities. Why?
Job’s troubles are attributed to the work of ha-satan, that is, "the adversary," and not, as the English translations insist, Satan with capital S. The word satan in Job could not be a name: in the Hebrew original it is always preceded by "ha," which is equivalent to the English word "the" (this would be equivalent to saying “the Bob”). Thus satan in Job is "adversary," just as it was in the earlier books of the Bible. (Rob's comments: The prefix "hey" is a letter in Ancient Hebrew, meaning "Behold the Person". It does not mean "the" as some claim, the Hebrew word "at" means "the" ie "the Strong Mark". What we have here is modern Jewish grammar rules imposed on the Ancient Hebrew letters, which is now technically a dead language, we assume modern Hebrew speaking Jews speak the same as the Ancient Hebrew, modern Jews claim doesn't exist. But clearly it did exist....even in Moses time...) Yet the Book of Job does not refer to just any adversary but to "the adversary.”
"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and the satan came also among them" (Job 1:6).
"The adversary" is a member of God’s heavenly council, who says he had just returned "from going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it." God asks him what he thinks of Job, but being a kind of prosecutor, the satan says that Job is only being good because he is being rewarded for it. He convinces God to test Job's piety with a deluge of disasters. A similar image of ha-satan, the satan as heavenly prosecutor, can be found in the Book of Zechariah (3:1-10), which is also believed to date from the early Second Temple period. In it, where Joshua the high priest is put on trial and accused by "the adversary." The Lord acting as judge rebukes him and sides with the "Angel of the Lord" who acts as the priest’s defense attorney.
Late Second Temple Period (450 B.C.E.-70 C.E.): My name isn't Legion, it's Mastema
The one and only time we find Satan used as a proper name in the Bible is in the Book of Chronicles. He appears in revisions of the books of Samuel and Kings, the Book of Chronicles, probably dating to the late 4th or early 3rd centuries B.C.E. When rewriting the story of King David calling a census in 2 Samuel 24:1, where it says "“And again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah," the Chronicler switches out the Lord for Satan: He is no longer ha-satan, the adversary, but Satan.
This is roughly the point at which the Hebrew Bible was translated into Greek, and the noun satan was translated into the Greek word diábolos, which means “one who slanders, accuses.” The Greek word eventually made its way into English as "devil". (Rob's comments" Interesting...so Jesus called the Devil, a murderer from the beginning, the father of the Jews, living in Jesus time, talking to Jesus? That means there are two fathers in Jesus view, the heavenly Father, and the fallen angel father called Devil and Satan) This is also roughly the same period that the Book of the Watchers and the Book of Enoch were written. While these books were not incorporated into the Hebrew Bible, they were popular at the time – over 2,000 years ago, and reflect the views of at least some Jews in the late Second Temple period, including those living in Qumran who painstakingly made many copies of these books.
These deuterocanonical books contain a horde of evil demons and they have a leader, the chief evil spirit, but he is not called Satan. In the Book of the Watchers, he is called Mastema. That name is almost certainly etymologically related to the noun satan.
But in the Book of Enoch, this figure is called Samyaza, which might mean "(he) saw my name."
In addition, Hebrew literature from this period also refers to demonic figures named Belial and Samael. All these names refer to the same basic idea, a chief demon, who opposes God and heads a group of fallen angels who spread evil throughout the world. (Rob's comments: Why does the Author write "a chief demon, who opposes God and heads a group of fallen angels who spread evil throughout the world. " Isn't this Satan and His fallen angels? Doesn't Ezekiel 28 speak about this? The verses you ignore) Where did Jews of this period get the idea that there is a chief demon responsible for all that is evil?
At one level, inventing a chief demon was a logical evolution of the conception of God that took shape in this period. If God is all-powerful and utterly good, how could bad things happen? He couldn’t be responsible, so some other being must be to blame, a kind of anti-God perhaps.
But Jews apparently didn’t come up with this idea on their own. They seem to have picked it up from their Persian overloads, who ruled over the entire Middle East from 539 to 330 B.C.E. The Persian religion Zoroastrianism envisioned the universe as a battle ground between two opposing supreme gods Ahura Mazda, ... In the year 70 C.E., Roman soldiers commanded by Vespasian destroyed Jerusalem and the Second Temple, to punish the Jews for (unsuccessfully) rebelling.
The period after the destruction of the Temple was a critical one in the formation of both Christianity and rabbinic Judaism.
The books of the Christian Bible abound with references to Satan, as he was imagined in Judaism in the late Second Temple period. For example the Gospel of Mark says of Jesus:
"And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him" (1:13). Within Christianity, Satan evolved into the Antichrist, God’s antithesis, who is behind all that is evil. He is the master of Hell, as everyone knows from popular culture. Not so in rabbinic Judaism, at least not at first. Rabbinic literature of the Tannaic period (70-250 C.E.), namely the Mishnah and the Tosefta, hardly ever refers to Satan. It seems as if the rabbis rejected the full-blown image of the devil as he appears in the Book of the Watchers and the Book of Enoch, books they did not admit into the canon.
But this retreat in the Evil One's status was temporary. Come the Amoraic period (250-450 C.E.) Satan reemerged in Jewish literature - the Talmud, and more prominently in the Midrashic literature, where he is blamed for pretty much every nastiness that took place in the Bible, from David sinning with the married Bathsheba to the Binding of Isaac (i.e., for sacrifice). In the Jewish literature of the rabbis, Satan is portrayed as a singular being who lures men into sin, and as prosecutor in the divine tribunal, trying to convince God to mete out harsh penalties. He is said to been a powerful angel, able to fly and assume the shape of men, women and animals. This devil was often called Ashmedai or Asmodeus, a name deriving from a Zoroastrian evil demon, or Samael, a demonic entity also mentioned in the gnostic literature found in Nag Hammadi (a collection of early Christian and gnostic texts discovered near the Egyptian town of the same name in 1945.) In the Talmud he is conflated with the Angel of Death and the Evil Inclination.
Still, despite Satan appearing quite frequently in the Talmud and Midrashic literature, mainstream medieval rabbis did not dwell on him, or discuss methods of combating his malevolence. This would become the domain of Kabbalistic literature, especially the Zohar, written in 13th century Spain. The Zohar expands on the character of Satan, which it calls Samael. It provides him with a wife, the evil spirit Lilith, and a set of demons which do his bidding.
Obviously, this worldview required different methods of fighting Satan, Lilith and their minions. This was achieved chiefly by reciting spells and sporting amulets. The view of Satan and his demons as actual beings was criticized by more rationalist streams of Judaism and most prominently by Maimonides, the sage who lived in the 12th century. Over time, as Judaism advanced to the modern period, this rationalist view prevailed and Satan and his minions were interpreted, at least in mainstream Judaism, in more metaphoric ways: they emblemize the evil inclinations which man carries within him, and cause him to stray from the path set for him by God.
Elon Gilad Haaretz Contributor (Rob's comments" Would Satan come and spell out to His people, that He was deceiving them? after all they propose to worship YHWH, the one and only true god. The Jews rejected Christ as God, because they saw only One God, now they confront two gods, and the one claimed Abram saw His day, Jesus is claiming to be as old as Abram, ie pre-existing as God. Where does this weird idea of one solitary god come from? From Jews, who Jesus say was born under a father, the Devil or Satan, a murder from the beginning.... so this makes two fathers, hence two supreme gods.... Yet you don't read this... you claim Opposer does not oppose the Father in heaven? Yet some bright star wanted to be like the Most High Father....sounds like opposing the Father to me? What about this prophecy: Hab 1:6 For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces that are not theirs. Who raises up the Babylonians? God does. Why... well if your people refuse to love God, God gives them up to their own choice...He raises up the religion they love, they are stiff necks in Scripture for a reason... Maybe God does this to save some of us, ie uses ra to wake us up...but this does not mean God is ra, or this anti-god power, only that He allows it to develop and rule.... who's is control all the time? God is... It appears like the other father god is always hampered by the Divine Father, but they do battle as opposers. Hab 1:8 Their horses also are swifter than the leopards, and are more fierce than the evening wolves: and their horsemen shall spread themselves, and their horsemen shall come from far; they shall fly as the eagle that hasteth to eat. This is also depicted in the Second Coming of Jesus: Mt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. Notice this religion and it's head: Hab 1:11 Then shall his mind change, and he shall pass over, and offend, imputing this his power unto his god. This Hebrew word here is "eloah", a father god. Hab 1:11 Then shall his mind change, and he shall pass over, and offend, imputing this his power unto his " father-god" (the pope). The pope is just a father-god representative of a great being. Who is this? Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And Dave likewise you don't hear the word either. This means we have two supreme father gods on earth... one was a murderer from the beginning, opposing the heavenly Father.
In fact Jesus calls this father-god the prince of this world, He came to conquer . Not just a chief archon, but a father-god, who murdered from the beginning....long before humans existed... No murder... no wounding... This angel did sin, remember, the verse you ignore... and caused war in heaven, again a verse you don't like either.... Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 2, 2020 19:00:05 GMT -5
www.haaretz.com/archaeology/.premium.MAGAZINE-do-jews-believe-in-the-devil-1.6588731I like your source - but before I go on - I want to say haartz is a secular News Organization in Israel today It is not Orthodox Judaism or Chabad It is a for profit organization operating in the Holy Land dependent upon readership sand advertising Therefore - the Judaism it presents = the street corner version - politically correct religion It does not compare to the Jerusalem Institute for Hebrew Studies - Chabad.org Do Jews Believe in the Devil? - Satan didn’t arise from Hell fully formed. The concept of an ultimate Evil One was apparently borrowed from the Persians and continued to evolve throughout antiquity YES! - the idea that satan is an individual is pagan - not Jewishthere was no difficulty in explaining why bad things happen to good men. A vast array of spirits, demons, evil gods and things that go bump in the night could be blamed for their misfortune. But once God was elevated to supreme and then the only god, the problem became vexing: Was God unfair? This is exactly your question - How can Feel Good TOV only God be the cause of little Jimmy having to die Is God unfair?In the early books of the Bible, which were written roughly in the First Temple period, there is no Prince of Darkness, just demons called se’irim. Some had names, such as Belial and Azazel, but none reigned supreme. YES! - I have been saying this all the time = archonWe do find the word satan in these early biblical books, but they do not refer to a demon. Rather, "satan" is just a proper noun denoting an adversary in a martial or judicial setting. For example, a foreign king opposing the king of Israel was said to be a satan: YES! - satan is a verb!"And the Lord stirred up an adversary unto Solomon, Hadad the Edomite" (1 Kings 11:14). Clearly, the Bible does not have the Prince of Darkness in mind here, but rather a man of flesh and bone. This is a word play - if the Prince of darkness is not involved Then God is sending your opponent - satan directly - but God does not do it directly Or - God use His servant to be the opponent - and God does it indirectly Either way God does it! - God is in control - God Will - God’s planIt is true that the Bible also refers to supernatural beings as being satans. For instance, in the story of Balaam in the Book of Numbers, God becomes angry and sends an "angel of the Lord" to stand "in the way for an adversary against him [Balaam]" (Numbers 22:22). In this case too, we are not talking about Satan with a capital S,... YES! the individual beings used by God to be the verb satan can be called the noun satan Pick a long playing sport - say Football The NY Giants have been a team since the 1920s They always have a coach - every season they have a coach is it always the same individual - No - sometimes - not always BUT - regardless of who is employed into that 'function' everyone calls him 'coach'Job’s troubles are attributed to the work of ha-satan, that is, "the adversary," and not, as the English translations insist, Satan with capital S. The word satan in Job could not be a name: in the Hebrew original it is always preceded by "ha," which is equivalent to the English word "the" (this would be equivalent to saying “the Bob”). Thus satan in Job is "adversary," just as it was in the earlier books of the Bible. YES! Jews say adversary / accuser - a verb - a toolYet the Book of Job does not refer to just any adversary but to "the adversary.” When Peter was the satan to Jesus - Peter was the satan" The adversary" is a member of God’s heavenly council, who says he had just returned "from going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it." God asks him what he thinks of Job, but being a kind of prosecutor, the satan says that Job is only being good because he is being rewarded for it. He convinces God to test Job's piety with a deluge of disasters. Prosecutor - YES! - working for the court - working for the Lord Late Second Temple Period (450 B.C.E.-70 C.E.): My name isn't Legion, it's Mastema The one and only time we find Satan used as a proper name in the Bible is in the Book of Chronicles. He appears in revisions of the books of Samuel and Kings, the Book of Chronicles, probably dating to the late 4th or early 3rd centuries B.C.E. When rewriting the story of King David calling a census in 2 Samuel 24:1, where it says "“And again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah," the Chronicler switches out the Lord for Satan: He is no longer ha-satan, the adversary, but Satan. Doesn’t matter what name you call him - he is still in the service of the Lord doing exactly as toldThis is also roughly the same period that the Book of the Watchers and the Book of Enoch were written. While these books were not incorporated into the Hebrew Bible, they were popular at the time – over 2,000 years ago, and reflect the views of at least some Jews in the late Second Temple period, including those living in Qumran who painstakingly made many copies of these books. These deuterocanonical books contain a horde of evil demons and they have a leader, the chief evil spirit, but he is not called Satan. In the Book of the Watchers, he is called Mastema. That name is almost certainly etymologically related to the noun satan. But in the Book of Enoch, this figure is called Samyaza, which might mean "(he) saw my name." Jesus called him Beelzebub Solomon called him Belzebul Shakespeare - a rose by any other name would still smell just as sweetIn addition, Hebrew literature from this period also refers to demonic figures named Belial and Samael. All these names refer to the same basic idea, a chief demon, who opposes God and heads a group of fallen angels who spread evil throughout the world. (Rob's comments: Why does the Author write "a chief demon, who opposes God and heads a group of fallen angels who spread evil throughout the world. " Isn't this Satan and His fallen angels? Doesn't Ezekiel 28 speak about this? The verses you ignore) That might be true if angels had free will and they hate God and God is not in control Other wise - it is referring to the Chief Archon and the archonBut Jews (Rome) apparently didn’t come up with this idea on their own. They seem to have picked it up from their Persian overloads, who ruled over the entire Middle East from 539 to 330 B.C.E. The Persian religion Zoroastrianism envisioned the universe as a battle ground between two opposing supreme gods Ahura Mazda, ... This is your view - two opposing gods locked in eternal combat - a pagan viewThe period after the destruction of the Temple was a critical one in the formation of both Christianity and rabbinic Judaism. YES!The books of the Christian Bible abound with references to Satan, as he was imagined in Judaism in the late Second Temple period. YES! - Roman edit - picking and choosing what you and I can read - instead of just being honest and open Within Christianity, Satan evolved into the Antichrist, God’s antithesis, who is behind all that is evil. He is the master of Hell, as everyone knows from popular culture. YES! Rome elevates satan - and thereby diminishing God
Still, despite Satan appearing quite frequently in the Talmud and Midrashic literature, mainstream medieval rabbis did not dwell on him, or discuss methods of combating his malevolence. This would become the domain of Kabbalistic literature, especially the Zohar, written in 13th century Spain. The Zohar expands on the character of Satan, which it calls Samael. It provides him with a wife, the evil spirit Lilith, and a set of demons which do his bidding. You see - harrets treats chabad as a separate / different groupObviously, this worldview required different methods of fighting Satan, Lilith and their minions. This was achieved chiefly by reciting spells and sporting amulets. All of this comes from the King Solomon - and revisited in the Zohar in the last three chapters that no one studiesThe Jews rejected Christ as God, because they saw only One God, now they confront two gods, I Like IT - well saidWhere does this weird idea of one solitary god come from? From, The Jews YESThen Jews that did not accept Jesus as the messiah said … Jesus say was born under a father, the Devil or Satan, a murder from the beginning.... so this makes two fathers, hence two supreme gods.... Yet you don't read this... you claim Opposer does not oppose the Father in heaven? Let’s examine your statement Did the Jews that accepted Jesus guilty of saying this? - NO It was Jews that did not accept Jesus who said it - Yes And evidently you agree with the Jews that do not accept Jesus because you support their view I read the text as a believer - and agree with the Jews who believe - then I do not believe the two god modelHab 1:6 Who raises up the Babylonians? God does. Why... because God uses the ra as a tool to facilitate His Willbut this does not mean God is ra, Correct - God uses the raScolfield Commentary - Habakkuk 1:11 Then shall his mind change - This is thought to relate to the change which took place in Nebuchadnezzar, when “a beast’s heart was given to him,” and he was “driven from the dwellings of men.” And this was because of his offending - his pride and arrogance; and his attributing all his success, etc., to his idols. The pope is just a father-god representative of a great being. Sure - Agree If you spent all your life chasing butterflies and have no time to Seek God - butterflies are you god Anything you devote “SELF” to becomes your mammon
Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. This means we have two supreme father gods on earth... WHAT is fornication? for·ni·ca·tion - sexual intercourse between people not married to each other. Why does sexual intercourse between people become a god to you This means we have two supreme father gods on earth...NO - One mortal (SELF)- one immortal GodIn fact Jesus calls this father-god the prince of this world, YES - ‘sar’ / archon of this world - only - another limit to obey
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Post by Dave on Jul 3, 2020 10:37:37 GMT -5
(Rob's comments: Why does the Author write "a chief demon, who opposes God and heads a group of fallen angels who spread evil throughout the world. " Isn't this Satan and His fallen angels? Doesn't Ezekiel 28 speak about this? The verses you ignore)That might be true if angels had free will and they hate God and God is not in control Other wise - it is referring to the Chief Archon and the archon, who were created for a purpose - to serve a function - Do the archon hate you? - even dose the devil hate you? Gnostic, Christians, and the Koran say man will judge the angels Gnostics, and the Koran clearly says - this is why these angels are JEALOUS of man Jealous = hate If the Archon hated us - why don’t they just kill us like Job’s family Instead - they desire our worship - ‘other gods’ sacrifices Allah and the beheading of the Christians is too easy of an example How about Catholic vrs Protestant / Catholic vrs Judaism / Catholic vrs Islam (crusaids) and today - Protestant vrs Protestant - and Rome is the anti-Christ SEE - they don’t have to kill us - all they have to do is make a suggestion and human nature (yester ra) says - Deep inside - I know it’s wrong, but my Mind/Body wants to do it anywayIt is this “Deep Inside” thing that is me - the true meThe me that thinks - therefore I am - is a projection of the “Deep Inside” - my persona You only know my persona - I only know my persona So many self-help books about “Knowing one’s self” - Who are you? That “Deep Inside” is the voice of ‘yester tov’This is why we know our conduct is wrong “Deep Inside”But - since the age of 3 months or so - we have been living (Mind/Body) dominate live driven by the alpha male instincts of our biology In a fiery plane crash - yester tov - the voice of our soul that does remember God - that voice within us that wants us to Seek God - wants us to STAND AND HELP OTHERS FIRST However, in a fight-or-flight biological - yester ra - (Mind/Body) response - we fight out way to the door The soul = man An angel = angels An Archon = bad-guy angels All created in heaven long ago - all individual beings with names - all a part of your family of God Angels live in the heavens - like Birds live in our sky - sometimes they land on the ground and interact The Soul - has a souljourn as animal man - ‘The Contest’ - then returns to God for Judgment 10% of the Archons live in and on the earth - as Rephiem (The 13 Families - genetic link) and evil spirits These archon are the other contestants in 3D reality Use your terminologyI will even say all angels have free will (they just never exercise it) becauseAngels only know God - it is their nature Archon only know ‘self’ - it is their nature Man is the only creature / animal that is a ‘living being’ and have the opportunity to choose between what you say is the only choice Self or GodMan walks through the valley of the Shadow of Death (Ps 23) - This is the Contest What was David to remember and not forget - I will fear no ra because God is with me. When we begin to forget - fear of ra loses its spiritual application and just becomes the pain of 3D corporeal survival - we become side tracked with “Self” and loose our focus upon the Lord (forget) - we ‘miss’ our focus upon the Lord - so we ‘miss’ the Lord The ‘sar of this world’s SELF’ has an army of other archon who consistently push you toward ‘SELF’ Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. This means we have two supreme father gods on earth... WHAT is fornication? for·ni·ca·tion - sexual intercourse between people not married to each other. Why does sexual intercourse between people become a god to you This means we have two supreme father gods on earth...NO - One mortal (SELF)- one immortal GodIn fact Jesus calls this father-god the prince of this world, YES - ‘sar’ / archon of this world - only - another limit to obey This means we have two supreme father gods on earth...NO - One (SELF-sar) - an archon prince of only this mortal world vrs one immortal God of the entire multiverse
Not the same - not the same at allWhy do you keep insisting they are equal in all ways? Two opposing gods of equal stature. Your view empowers satan and diminishes God.
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Post by Dave on Jul 4, 2020 10:44:59 GMT -5
Not so in rabbinic Judaism, at least not at first. Rabbinic literature of the Tannaic period (70-250 C.E.), namely the Mishnah and the Tosefta, hardly ever refers to Satan. It seems as if the rabbis rejected the full-blown image of the devil as he appears in the Book of the Watchers and the Book of Enoch, books they did not admit into the canon. I will disagree with this statementI have all three Books of Enoch – Do I know them well? – Well enough to have crawled through them with a highlighter over the years. The Book of Enoch speaks to the leader of the ‘bane elohiym’ - no more – no less There is an assumption being made here that the leader of the ‘bane elohiym’ on earth is the same being we would call the Beast or the Devil All multi-dimensional beings – angels or archon are able to make you see them anyway the want2 Points here#1 – The Key of Solomon calls the devil Belzebul Jesus called him Belzubub But in the Book of Enoch, this figure is called Samyaza, (Wiki) - Asmodeus - Ancient Greek: Ἀσμοδαῖος, Asmodaios) or Ashmedai (/ˈæʃmɪˌdaɪ/; Hebrew: אַשְמְדּאָי, ʾAšməddāy), also Ashema Deva, is a prince of demons, or in Judeo-Islamic lore the king of the earthly spirits (shedim/jinn), mostly known from the deuterocanonical Book of Tobit ... The Apocryphon of John - The Nag Hammadi Library"Now the archon who is weak has three names. The first name is Yaltabaoth, the second is Saklas, and the third is Samael. And he is impious in his arrogance which is in him. For he said, 'I am God and there is no other God beside me,' for he is ignorant of his strength, the place from which he had come.This is the ‘sar’ of this word – ‘the prince of this world’ This is not the Beast / Devil#2 – We are reading an article about how the Jews before Jesus saw the personage of your satan And the proof comes from 1945 – Ooops! – reading the present into the past [/font][/quote] Let’s talk of Lillith in the ZoharAgain – haartes is misrepresenting Chabad Same story different scource www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/lilithLilith is identified as a demon in the Dead Sea Scrolls (11QpsAp). Dead Sea Scroll validate this as inspired remember – KJV- Gnostic texts, and 16 fragments of what might me agl Midrashic literature expands the legend that Adam, having parted from his wife after it had been ordained that they should die, begat demons from spirits that had attached themselves to him. It is said that "he was encountered by a Lilith named Piznai who, taken by his beauty, lay with him and bore male and female demons." The firstborn son of this demonic union was Agrimas (see the Midrash published in Ha-Goren, 9 (1914), 66–68; Dvir, 1 (1923), 138; and L. Ginzberg, Legends of the Jews, 5 (1925), 166). The offspring of this Lilith fill the world. A transmuted version of this legend appears in the Alphabet of Ben Sira, a Midrash of the geonic period, which sets out to explain the already widespread custom of writing amulets against Lilith. Here she is identified with the "first Eve," who was created from the earth at the same time as Adam, and who, unwilling to forgo her equality, disputed with him the manner of their intercourse. Pronouncing the Ineffable Name, she flew off into the air. On Adam's request, the Almighty sent after her the three angels Snwy, Snsnwy, and Smnglf; finding her in the Red Sea, the angels threatened that if she did not return, 100 of her sons would die every day. She refused, claiming that she was expressly created to harm newborn infants. However, she had to swear that whenever she saw the image of those angels in an amulet, she would lose her power over the infant. Here the legend concerning the wife of Adam who preceded the creation of Eve (Gen. 2) merges with the earlier legend of Lilith as a demon who kills infants and endangers women in childbirth. This later version of the myth has many parallels in Christian literature from Byzantine (which probably preceded it) and later periods. The female demon is known by different names, many of which reappear in the same or in slightly altered forms in the literature of practical Kabbalah (as, for example, the name Obizoth from the Testament of Solomon), and the place of the angels is taken by three saints – Sines, Sisinnios, and Synodoros. The legend also found its way into Arabic demonology, where Lilith is known as Karina, Tabi'a, or "the mother of the infants." The personification of Lilith as a strangler of babies is already clear in Jewish incantations, written in Babylonian Aramaic, which predate the Alphabet of Ben Sira. A late Midrash (Ba-Midbar Rabbah, end of ch. 16) also mentions her in this respect: "When Lilith finds no children born, she turns on her own" – a motif which relates her to the Babylonian Lamashtu. Few points here #1 – several points of view are given So unlike Catholics that know everything#2 – all of this information presented here – comes from the MidRash Much older documentation – the Zohar didn’t come for over 2000 years later #3- The Gap between Gen chapter 1 and Gen chapter 2 2 women – one created at the same time as Adam – and one cloned from Adam’s side later The first woman of Gen 1 was Lillith – the Second woman of Gen 2 = Eve Most Christians explain this away by making Gen 2 a metaphor about equality Robert – dismisses Gen 1:27 all together saying – God made man – then Eve later in Gen 2 Robert cannot even admit that it was EVE that sinned first – His Adam caused the fall of man No matter how toy look at this theme is is the same theme – choshek is the result of a male/female union – and all that follows – demons – evil spirits – the devil, which is the Beast, which is the Chief Archon the union of HS and matter The Zohar does discuss the union between Adam and Lillith In the 136 year gap between Gen 1 and Gen 2 BUT then says – it all happened spiritually – in the heavens The Nag Hammadi -breaks this into the First Age / Aion – when everything was spiritual - Gen 1:1-3 Jer 4 – before there was light, world, or man – cities fell This implies a lot was going on During this age – The Nag Hammadi speaks of the Great Adamus and the race of perfect man Then The Nag Hammadi speaks of the next age / aion just being a reflection / a repeat cycle / as in heaven so also on earth The Apocryphon of John - The Nag Hammadi Library"And from the foreknowledge of the perfect mind, through the revelation of the will of the invisible Spirit and the will of the Autogenes, <the> perfect Man (appeared), the first revelation, and the truth. It is he whom the virginal Spirit called Pigera-Adamas, and he placed him over the first aeon with the mighty one, the Autogenes, the Christ, by the first light Armozel; and with him are his powers. And the invisible one gave him a spiritual, invincible power. And he spoke and glorified and praised the invisible Spirit, saying, 'It is for thy sake that everything has come into being and everything will return to thee. I shall praise and glorify thee and the Autogenes and the aeons, the three: the Father, the Mother, and the Son, the perfect power.'For me – this next age /aion = Gen 2 + Gen 3 and now we are in the resulting Contest For me – the union of Adamus and Lillith = male matter and female spirit = Chief Archon Lilith (Isa. 34:14), among the beasts of prey and the spirits that will lay waste the land on the day of vengeance. In sources dating from earlier centuries, traditions concerning the female demon who endangers women in childbirth and who assumes many guises and names are distinct from the explicit tradition on Lilith recorded in the Talmud. From the Key of Solomon we learn that different demons / archon have different functions Some demons / archons are in charge of the wind – some in charge of disease – some in charge of specific disease The Gospel of Philip - The Nag Hammadi LibraryThe forms of evil spirit include male ones and female ones. The males are they which unite with the souls which inhabit a female form, but the females are they which are mingled with those in a male form, though one who was disobedient. And none shall be able to escape them, since they detain him if he does not receive a male power or a female power, the bridegroom and the bride. One receives them from the mirrored bridal chamber. When the wanton women see a male sitting alone, they leap down on him and play with him and defile him. So also the lecherous men, when they see a beautiful woman sitting alone, they persuade her and compel her, wishing to defile her. But if they see the man and his wife sitting beside one another, the female cannot come into the man, nor can the male come into the woman. Why would an archon pick on it own kind – because it is his nature (SELF) doesn’t have loyalty or concern for anyone other than SELF
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2020 16:12:56 GMT -5
The Jews rejected Christ as God, because they saw only One God, now they confront two gods, I Like IT - well said
Where does this weird idea of one solitary god come from? From, The Jews YES Then Jews that did not accept Jesus as the messiah said … Jesus say was born under a father, the Devil or Satan, a murder from the beginning.... so this makes two fathers, hence two supreme gods.... Yet you don't read this... you claim Opposer does not oppose the Father in heaven?
Let’s examine your statement Did the Jews that accepted Jesus guilty of saying this? - NO It was Jews that did not accept Jesus who said it - Yes And evidently you agree with the Jews that do not accept Jesus because you support their view I read the text as a believer - and agree with the Jews who believe - then I do not believe the two god model
Wow you confuse me,
so this passage is only a reference to non-believers?
Jesus is saying there are not two father-gods , one on earth, and one in heaven?
Which is it Dave? Is Jesus statement wrong?
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The pope is just a father-god representative of a great being. Sure - Agree Anything you devote “SELF” to becomes your mammon
Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
OK if you agree, why do you make the chief archon into a friendly foe, instead of a opposer of GOD, as Jesus says He is, a father-god on earth?
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Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. This means we have two supreme father gods on earth... WHAT is fornication?
You have changed topic.... Jews saw Jesus born as a Bastard...without earth marriage...hence they saw Jesus as a fornication son, not what your saying.... so who was Jesus father as a result of his humanity? The Heaven Father was...hence this is a miracle birth, not a fornication birth...Jews refused to see this... Again they do not see GOD as a Family model, as Jesus was saying here... Father and Son is a family model, but Jews do not have GOD as a family, only as solitary.... so their model is wrong...it must be a Satanic model, they are deceived...this is why they killed Jesus, because they hated his model of GOD.
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In a fiery plane crash - yester tov - the voice of our soul that does remember God - that voice within us that wants us to Seek God -
If you study this "deep inside" voice, in the NT especially, it is the Holy Spirit that talks to us...not some eternal spirit that is owned by us... The soul = man An angel = angels An Archon = bad-guy angels All created in heaven long ago - all individual beings with names - all a part of your family of God
The nephesh = man in partnershp with GOD as the "force" keeping man alive. AN angel - cherub, yes created creatures, An Archon = bad-guy angels (yes, so why the long debate???) CHief Archon - the first archon who sinned, the cherub chata... Funny you write the same descriptions here, but don't follow your summary?
Use Rob's terminology I will even say all angels have free will (they just never exercise it) because Angels only know God - it is their nature Archon only know ‘self’ - it is their nature Man is the only creature / animal that is a ‘living being’ and have the opportunity to choose between what you say is the only choice Self or God
Well said...
When we begin to forget - fear of ra loses its spiritual application and just becomes the pain of 3D corporeal survival - we become side tracked with “Self” and loose our focus upon the Lord (forget) - we ‘miss’ our focus upon the Lord - so we ‘miss’ the Lord
Well said
The ‘sar of this world’s SELF’ has an army of other archon who consistently push you toward ‘SELF’
Yes, and SELF opposers GOD. You become a HA-OPPOSER, just as the first archon, who sinned also rose and made boast, opposed GOD....
SO when you sin, and do sinning, can you do as you like? NO, since both tov and ra is adminsitrated and regulated by GOD, GOD is always in control, so as a sinner, sinning, you are limited by GOD. This makes you appear to be a friendly foe, even though you truly hate GOD, and want to follow SELF.
You don't get this, as in Job for example...
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This means we have two supreme father gods on earth... NO - One (SELF-sar) - an archon prince of only this mortal world vrs one immortal God of the entire multiverse
Not the same - not the same at all
I agree the chief archon, fallen angel, bad angel, is a sinner, but a creature of a mortal only, VERSES the Father who never sinned, is a eternal creator, and Immortal, not a creature.
The Hebrew word "ab" means "provider" , the CHief Archon opposer, opposes the Provider in heaven, and provides for humans on earth, who also follow this opposer, thus opposing the heavenly Father as well.
Sure they are different.... creature / creator But the creature usurps control as provider...
-------- Why do you keep insisting they are equal in all ways? Two opposing gods of equal stature.
I would say they are not equal at all...I never termed Satan as a Creator... you do...
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All multi-dimensional beings – angels or archon are able to make you see them anyway they want
SO they are good at deceiving humans...
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"Now the archon who is weak has three names. The first name is Yaltabaoth, the second is Saklas, and the third is Samael. And he is impious in his arrogance which is in him. For he said, 'I am God and there is no other God beside me,' for he is ignorant of his strength, the place from which he had come.
This is the ‘sar’ of this word – ‘the prince of this world’ This is not the Beast / Devil Why do you not call this being "Satan/Devil/ prince of this world"?
------- Sorry I don't follow Lilith, while a brief mention in Hebrew, is mostly an invention i Gnostic and Jewish writings, not the first 5 books of Moses.
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The Gospel of Philip - The Nag Hammadi Library The forms of evil spirit include male ones and female ones. The males are they which unite with the souls which inhabit a female form, but the females are they which are mingled with those in a male form, though one who was disobedient. And none shall be able to escape them, since they detain him if he does not receive a male power or a female power, the bridegroom and the bride. One receives them from the mirrored bridal chamber. When the wanton women see a male sitting alone, they leap down on him and play with him and defile him. So also the lecherous men, when they see a beautiful woman sitting alone, they persuade her and compel her, wishing to defile her. But if they see the man and his wife sitting beside one another, the female cannot come into the man, nor can the male come into the woman
Your Gnostic writings are foul, to read... the NT writings leave out this, how do you know the entire book of Phillip is true? The entire book must be true, not parts you like...
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 4, 2020 18:31:52 GMT -5
The Jews rejected Christ as God, because they saw only One God, now they confront two gods, I Like IT - well said
Well and that other little detail about fulfilling all the prophesies – Which Jesus did not
Let’s examine your statement Did the Jews that accepted Jesus guilty of saying this? - NO It was Jews that did not accept Jesus who said it - Yes And evidently you agree with the Jews that do not accept Jesus because you support their view I read the text as a believer - and agree with the Jews who believe - then I do not believe the two god model
Wow you confuse me,
Excuse me Robert – you either do not read scripture – or you do not read English
Who was – Mathew, John, Mark, Peter, James, or Paul - the authors of the agl John, James, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas also authored the Nag Nammadi Who were the people that had gathered at the Temple for the Festival of Weeks (Pentecost) and each heard the Gospel in his own tongue - and recieved the gift of the HS? So you claim that all Jews everywhere rejected Jesus – for any reason – you are totally wrong JEWS! – Christ came to the Jews first Who were The FIRST Christians? - Mesianic Jews
Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
If you were (of your father Abraham) – they would believe Jesus and become his disciples and the First Christians – Then once a gentile becomes a Christian he becomes a spiritual decedent of Abraham (Gal)
Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
So now – are you claiming that all the Jews I just mentioned want to kill Jesus – wrong – they believe - and you say you respect the Jews - yet you talk like an antisemite - the physicial nation of Isreal should not exist - Ellen White canceled their existance It is the remaining –non-believing in Jesus Jews – Pharisees and their following
Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
These non-believing Jews do the deeds of their father – beginning with self – fueled by archon – under the ‘prince / sar’ of this earth – who is just one of many archon on the mission to deceive
Believers – do the deeds of their father in heaven
so this passage is only a reference to non-believers? Absolutely – or the authors of the agl and all the First Christians are satan’s seed according to you
Jesus is saying there are not two father-gods , one on earth, and one in heaven? You have two choices – if you want to worship the ‘prince of this world’ as a father god – be my guest
You have a father in heaven – you have a mortal father on earth (dad) Are both a god? – only if you worship you mortal dad – otherwise you just see him a man under the same umbrella of the only true God in heaven
Joh 8:41 We be not born of fornication; we have one Father.
Which is it Dave? Is Jesus statement wrong? Jesus is not elevating your satan to godhood – as much as you would like Him too ------------
The pope is just a father-god representative of a great being. Sure - Agree Anything you devote “SELF” to becomes your mammon
Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
OK if you agree, why do you make the chief archon into a friendly foe, instead of a opposer of GOD, as Jesus says He is, a father-god on earth?
First – I have never said friendly and ask you to stop saying it – you need to research a phenomina called the Mandela Effect – you can say a lie over and over – but it does not make it true satan = a function of the the Lord - in the service of the Lord
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Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. This means we have two supreme father gods on earth... Joh 8:41 We be not born of fornication; we have one Father.
WHAT is fornication? You have changed topic.... Jews saw Jesus born as a Bastard...without earth marriage...hence they saw Jesus as a fornication son, not what your saying.... so who was Jesus father as a result of his humanity? The Heaven Father was...hence this is a miracle birth, not a fornication birth...Jews refused to see this... Again they do not see GOD as a Family model, as Jesus was saying here... Father and Son is a family model,
but Jews do not have GOD as a family, only as solitary.... You are the only non-cult Christian I know that reject the idea of One True God so their model is wrong...it must be a Satanic model, they are deceived...this is why they killed Jesus, because they hated his model of GOD. The way you present it – I hate your model – --------------
In a fiery plane crash - yester tov - the voice of our soul that does remember God - that voice within us that wants us to Seek God -
If you study this "deep inside" voice, in the NT especially, it is the Holy Spirit that talks to us...not some eternal spirit that is owned by us...
OK – now we are back to the question you refuse to answer – if that spark within us is only the HS – then it was the HS that caused EVE to sin And it will that HS that will stand judgment in the end
There is no you – deep inside – it is just the HS driving you like a bus – just like Eve – and Cain
Use Rob's terminology I will even say all angels have free will (they just never exercise it) because Angels only know God - it is their nature Archon only know ‘self’ - it is their nature Man is the only creature / animal that is a ‘living being’ and have the opportunity to choose between what you say is the only choice Self or God
Well said...
How can you say – well said –you preach a different story About your angels who only know God – it their nature 1/3 of them rebelled – changed their own natures by their own power - and hate God
Your theology is not consistant
SO when you sin, and do sinning, can you do as you like? NO, since both tov and ra is adminsitrated and regulated by GOD, GOD is always in control, so as a sinner, sinning, you are limited by GOD. This makes you appear to be a friendly foe, even though you truly hate GOD, and want to follow SELF.
YES – God is always in control – and yes, you sin has limits You cannot raise the dead – you cannot deny death – currently, you cannot leave this solar system – no matter how hard I would try, I am never going to be a brain surgeon, or the President. Limits abound – YES! -------
This means we have two supreme father gods on earth... NO - One (SELF-sar) - an archon prince of only this mortal world vrs one immortal God of the entire multiverse Not the same - not the same at all I agree the chief archon, fallen angel, bad angel, is a sinner, but a creature of a mortal only, So now – your ‘cherub chata angel’ is born of a mortal?
Joh 8:41 We be not born of fornication; we have one Father. -------
Why do you keep insisting they are equal in all ways? Two opposing gods of equal stature. I would say they are not equal at all...I never termed Satan as a Creator... you do...
6 months ago – satan was the creator of ra – because God is only tov You still do not accept that God created both the tov and the ra – as well as the wicked Now you say that satn is not a creator – but still believe that satan is powerful enough to usurp the one true Creator
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"Now the archon who is weak has three names. The first name is Yaltabaoth, the second is Saklas, and the third is Samael. And he is impious in his arrogance which is in him. For he said, 'I am God and there is no other God beside me,' for he is ignorant of his strength, the place from which he had come.
This is the ‘sar’ of this word – ‘the prince of this world’ This is not the Beast / Devil Why do you not call this being "Satan/Devil/ prince of this world"?
At first I was confused as well – then I went back and reread what I wrote As you can already tell – I cannot type – the ‘Not’ is in the wrong sentence
This is not the ‘sar’ of this word – ‘the prince of this world’ This is the Beast / Devil
Good catch – honest slip of the finger -------
Sorry I don't follow Lilith, while a brief mention in Hebrew, is mostly an invention i Gnostic and Jewish writings, not the first 5 books of Moses.
So that is enough data for you to deny everything about her – and pretend she doesn’t exist – cool Anything that does not fit your doctrine must be egnored --------
Your Gnostic writings are foul, to read... the NT writings leave out this, how do you know the entire book of Phillip is true? The entire book must be true, not parts you like...
When are you willing to discuss the book of Luke Either it is all factually correct in every way – line by line with Mathew – or we have to throw it all out Next we will discuss the false claims by Steven in the Book of Acts
You set the standards for acceptability -
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Post by Dave on Jul 5, 2020 9:21:56 GMT -5
OK – Let’s get serious There are some obvious differences between usDave asks: "Are you telling me that there is Zero difference between you and a goldfish at a pet store? Man is just animal - there is nothing spiritual about man? Rob replies: Correct. This is a big issue – Religious is all about the spirit realm and our relationship to itFor most – for me The heavens are filled with spirit beings – zillions – of different specificity Each of these being are individuals ‘spirits’ – angels / archon/ demons/ whatever After all this time together – you still have not answered if this is true Sometimes you say there are angels that act all on their own counter from any guidance from above Then you say – that individual being do not exist as individuals – that are all just sparks of the HS We are not all individuals – we are all just one big collective – called HS ruwach One of our earliest conversations together was ‘How to pray in the spirit’ Yet you deny the spirit – how curiousDave you write: But the Soul returns to God This answer is NO Nephesh does not return to GOD Ruwach returns to GOD Very simple and clear, is it not? DO a study of death and spirit yourself. You have no control over the HS who empowers you with living. The HS returns to GOD, and keeps records of the character you developed. Q5: Question: Does the "nephesh apart from the flesh" go to heaven, or did these "nephesh with their flesh" go to heaven, which is it?
Answer: ""nephesh with their flesh" goes to heaven"
Q6: Your point - once your dead you are in the grave sleeping Yes Q7: only your memories went to heaven with the HS Ec 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (HS) shall return unto God who gave it. Q8: My point - once we die we / our souls / that thing that makes us=us returns to God
(the only Hebrew word for this is Ruwach - HS) (the nephesh does not return to heaven - unless raised to life again)
Q9 : we live in heaven No.
You are taking ownership of the Ruwach.
I am sorry Robert – I do not understands all this double speak1- Nephesh does not return to GOD Ruwach returns to GOD Very simple and clear, is it not? 2- "nephesh with their flesh" goes to heaven" 3- (the only Hebrew word for this is Ruwach - HS) (the nephesh does not return to heaven - unless raised to life again) 4- we live in heaven - No. You are taking ownership of the Ruwach Gnostic doctrine God created everyone – angel and man – all individual souls Angels and man are eternal – but can be put to death – Lake of Fire Man’s soul – experiences a souljourn in our 3d World – then returns to God for judgment WHY? Jewish Adam and Eve = Eve knew they needed to be in the lower world – not paradise The Jews say – our souls want to be in this world WHY? Our mission as men – man souls – having a souljourn here – is 1- To remember that full awareness we once experienced with God in heaven 2- Then – once we begin to remember – we seek more and more until – we become instruments of God’s Will – REVEALING GOD’s GLORY TO THIS WORLD The mission / function of the angels is to serve God in heaven and praise (They are 100% in full awareness – full remembrance) – the angels were created to do this in heaven! BUT CHOSHEK came about – by God’s Will in Gen 1:2 Indirectly – by the Left hand – but still at the Will of the Creator – Isa 45:7 - Prov 16:4 – Jms 1:13 Rev 12:7 – The Chief Archon and all his are pushed off into the darkness / abyss / earth Can man fulfil his function in heaven – NO Only by stepping down from paradise could Adam and Eve fulfil their function REVEALING GOD’s GLORY TO THIS WORLD However – once in this world – man realizes that this world has literally gone to hell So man has to grow and mature as an animal with the Valley – of the shadow of death And what was David supposed to do – always remember – the Lord is with us The more time we spend in (Mind/Body) SELF – the more we forget to seek God So here we are in the Contest – everything tangible / corporeal / visible does not speak to us of a singular Creator unless we look The Mission of the archon is to keep us so busy with life – we have no time to look / seek WHY?Catholics will say – Mr Free Will satan the devil is running a delay tactic Mr Free Will satan knows his fate – in fact, all the free will God hating angles know their fate So satan is just trying to delay the inevitable So a Gnostic asks – if this is true why doesn’t satan and all his following fall immediately to their knees and repent The Catholic answer – they cannot or it world completely destroy most of scripture All across the Globe – the Book of revelation would have to be redacted from each and every Bible I suppose we would also cancel Ezk 38 – 47 as well just as Ellem White says So a Gnostic asks – satan only has the free will to oppose God – not worship God – isn’t this a lop-sided free will – same as no free will – leaving satan following the only will he has – the nature God gave his So – while the Catholics see the world as satan driven delaying God so that satan can live longer The Christians, Jew, or Gnostic sees God waiting on man to wake up and turn to GodOne empowers satan – the other see the function of satan as a mosquito in the dark – always buzzing in your ear – annoying you – keeping you side tracked – prayer inter-rupter (at least here in Colorado by the river side) Just like the yester ra within us – instinctive desire to reproduce and conquer (be the alpha) – this is all (Mind/Body) driven 2 starving (Mind/Body) animals operating on instinct + only one piece of food = alpha only – it just nature But – starving (Soul + (Mind/Body)) men + one piece of food – and there are two voices speaking top our decision making center – starving self knows what it wants – but (soul) wants us to say – you first I will die so that you can live You suggest this is a struggle between two gods – I will not say this as you want me to Yin-and-Yang are = competitors Zorasterian good and bad are = competitorsYES – the paradigm of Gen 3:15 is very real – Gnostic call it the Great ContestBut it is between Eve’s seed (MAN) – and satan’s seed (archon) You force this to mean ‘God the Creator and between god satan’ Gnostic – this is between man and satan’s seed (there is also another level to this passage as Christ and the archon) Now – you will say – there is a war Gnostic and Jewish – in heaven - over done long ago – Gen 1:3 Now the archons find their home in and on the earth – But in Gen 1:3 this had to mean space / physical creation / matter – because this earth was not formed until Gen 1:9 This is how the serpent is in the Garden with Eve The Jews will say satan is a function of God In fact if you get into the Kabbalah God has 10 expressions – 10 Serferots And satan is just one of those expressions No Jewish Rabbi would ever say – satan is a person – hates God – is anti-God in any way Satan is a function of God – satan is serving a function of God Let’s say satan = the angel of Death that God set upon Egypt – OK - God sent – satan did Jews say – any angel serving the function of opposing / accusing = a satan All sent by God – at God’s instruction – by God’s Will – by God’s plan To facilitate God’s Will Jewish demonology – the female Lillith birthed them all by Adamas Jews say this Adamas was mortal Adam and his first wife - but it all happened in heaven Then 100% Key of Solomon Catholic say – the Jews are totally wrongEzk 28 and Isa 14 prove without a doubt that satan is a free willing anti-God – God hating angel that opposes God – usurps God Will and Plan – over-rides God’s Will – does something God doesn’t want to happen and evidently God is powerless to prevent it from happening The Catholics say Jesus walked and talk with the disciples for 50 days - but said nothing of importance – just Gnostic Junk Catholic demonology – Ezk 28 / Isa 14 then Key of Solomon Lillith the female is omitted and replaced with matter / earth Gia – ants = children of earth Gnostic sayJesus walked and talked with the disciples for 50 days (47) and said share secrets with the disciples to empower them as they go off to become martyrs In that shared gnosis = ABSOLUTLY EVERYTHING IS CREATED BY GOD FOR GODthe feminine creation of the Chief Archon – by the left hand of God – indirectly and everything fall into place Adamas + Lillith = the HS + matter = Chief Archon an the arch follow Gnostics also say this Adamas + Lillith = the HS + matter = Chief Archon an the arch follow thing happened at Gen 1:2 – The First age / aion Gen 1:1 God created the heavens – and a lot happened there – Jer 4 – Rev 12 All scripture falls into place Gen 1:26 – the next age / aion began Now Adam and Eve – face this (desire to forget) on a different playing field – our earth The archon are already there Adam and Eve’s mission was to reveal God’s Glory to their world – did they? So the Contest changed – Gen 3:15 alive and well on a corporeal level (earth) Gen 6 – the Contest got harder – the rules changed Gen 9 – the Contest was reset again - the Contest got harder – the rules changed Gen 11 - the Contest was reset again - the Contest got harder – the rules changed Gen 14 - the Contest was reset again - the Contest got harder – the rules changed The Exodus - the Contest was reset again - the Contest got harder – the rules changed Crossing the River Jordon - the Contest was reset again - the Contest got harder – the rules changed The Gospel comes - the Contest was reset again - the Contest got harder – the rules changed So as for the pagan belief that there are two opposing Gods locked in never ending conflict – I rejest ir – and you will never get me to support it
There is only the Creator and creation – you either worship the Creator or something from within creation – that is the only two choicesGnostic – Zeus and Apollo are real – other gods – just as real as Baal or Molech – they are all created beings – not the Creator At best Catholics have one One Creator and a bad angel Is this the same as two supreme gods – I will never endorse the idea!Dear Robert I have not said much here … However, you have said something that must be addressed. Dave writes: " See – you have two Kings and two godsYes I have two Kings and two gods opposing each other. What's wrong with that? Everything is wrong with that. Joh 8:41 Jesus is clearly speaking of two father-gods here? Correct? When Jesus came to the Jews, He and his Father sent me, we have two supreme gods here, Jews hated this idea, If you want to call satan a supreme god – go for it Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. This means we have two supreme father gods on earth... NO - One (SELF-sar) - an archon prince of only this mortal world vrs one immortal God of the entire multiverse
The Hebrew word "ab" means "provider" , the CHief Archon opposer, opposes the Provider in heaven, and provides for humans on earth, who also follow this opposer, thus opposing the heavenly Father as well. You see – you move the entire focus off man and make satan God’s personal oppose What a promotion you give satan – how very powerful he must be for you – that you disregard so much scripture to maintain satan’s supremacySure they are different.... creature / creator But the creature usurps control as provider... Satan usurps God’s control – God is not in control – satan powerful / God weakDave writes: My soul has eternal life No, you can be granted access to the tree of life, and eating it weekly, grant you eternal living, I showed you this before with Adam and Eve, So heaven is a drug – as long as you drink the wine your OK? Sounds like mythology to me Rob : Man has character, that is administrated by the Holy Spirit. 1 The Father has character, that is revealed by the Holy Spirit. 2 Man has character, that is administrated by the Holy Spirit. 3 The "breath of living" allows our character to develop inside it's body. 4 God knows all your character before you develop your character. 5 Your character is known in heaven, but characters require bodies with them. 6 Your character develops as a babe in its body, GOD's foreknowledge knows you. 7 at mortal death, the character development stops. The administration ends. I beg you to clearly this – you refuse Please define character – I have Character – is a representation of something else Character is a trait of personality Character cannot be the me inside that my character reflects Monday I might be happy – Tuesday I might be sad – does this make me two different people? I am speaking if the thing deep with us that our characters reflect You say there is nothing inside – we are no different than an animal If we have a spark inside it is only the HS within us You deny spiritDave asks: "Are you telling me that there is Zero difference between you and a goldfish at a pet store? Man is just animal - there is nothing spiritual about man? Rob replies: Correct. Anyone who become saved by Jesus, becomes a Hebrew. Hebrew means to Cross Over. SO I deeply respect Jews, because we are very similar. Dave replies: "You keep telling that that the entire Jewish community is wrong - you say this a lot
Well you respect Jews, and are influenced by them. As a "Jew" you do not read the "Jewish writings" with respect, you ignore sentences you don't like... Gordon does the same thing...
"cherub chata" you ignore, remember?
Jews do not read line upon line, neither do you. Jews pick which contexts fit their view, and ignore the ones that don't like. Double speak – not consistent – conflicting statements Sorry I don't follow Lilith, while a brief mention in Hebrew, is mostly an invention i Gnostic and Jewish writings, not the first 5 books of Moses. The cherub chata verse you reject, so reject all the Bible with it. I looked all through the Torah – could not find Ezk 28 or Isa 14 Jews do not read line upon line, neither do you. Jews pick which contexts fit their view, and ignore the ones that don't like. Hmmmmm? The Jews are on only ones here?
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Post by Richard on Jul 5, 2020 14:28:15 GMT -5
You suggest this is a struggle between two gods – I will not say this as you want me to Yin-and-Yang are = competitors Zorasterian good and bad are = competitorsYES – the paradigm of Gen 3:15 is very real – Gnostic call it the Great ContestBut it is between Eve’s seed (MAN) – and satan’s seed Agree. God does not have to compete for anything. He just sits and waits and must shake his head and sigh at the stupidity of man. Crash test Dummies After seven days He was quite tired so God said "Let there be a day Just for picnics, with wine and bread" He gathered up some people he had made Created blankets and laid back in the shade The people sipped their wine And what with God there, they asked him questions Like, do you have to eat Or get your hair cut in heaven? And if your eye got poked out in this life Would it be waiting up in heaven with your wife? God shuffled his feet and glanced around at them The people cleared their throats and stared right back at him So he said "once there was a boy Who woke up with blue hair To him it was a joy Until he ran out into the warm air He thought of how his friend would come to see And would they laugh, or had he got some strange disease?" God shuffled his feet and glanced around at them The people cleared their throats and stared right back at him The people sat waiting Out on their blankets in the garden But God said nothing So someone asked him "I beg your pardon I'm not quite clear about what you just spoke What that a parable, or a very subtle joke?" God shuffled his feet and glanced around at them The people cleared their throats and stared right back at him
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 22:02:46 GMT -5
Perhaps Dave we have language and cultural barriers too Dave writes: " Please define character – I have Character – is a representation of something else Character is a trait of personality
Character cannot be the me inside that my character reflects.Rob replies: Character is a simile of "wind" as Dave says "spirit", the thing that makes you, you. I am not sure if it can be defined easily...hence the Bible way to add it to the word "HS", does NOT imply what your saying Dave.... the Divine empowers us, gives us this thing.... but it is US who is a steward of it, a part of GOD given to us to develop as us, eternal... yes, your term "spirit" is fine as a meaning. Scripture says when we die, the "wind" returns unto GOD who gave it... So the "wind" or "spirit" is a gift from GOD, that returns to GOD, hence I use the term "HS as an administrator of your character" is the term you use as "spirit". ----------- Dave writes: " I looked all through the Torah – could not find Ezk 28 or Isa 14Yes but these scrolls are the prophets, testimonies of Moses... Does Moses speak of cherub? Ge 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. Cherub placed inn garden to prevent access to tree of life... why stop this access? Ge 3:17 ¶ And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Man sinned and disobeyed GOD... refused access to tree of life Ge 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: So the serpent caused Adam to sin.... but Adam chose to sin... Who is this serpent? Ex 4:3 And he said, Cast it on the ground. And he cast it on the ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from before it. 4 And the LORD said unto Moses, Put forth thine hand, and take it by the tail. And he put forth his hand, and caught it, and it became a rod in his hand: 5 That they may believe that the LORD God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath appeared unto thee. Here it is used as a symbol of powerNu 21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died. 7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people. 8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. Now we get another Hebrew word as a simile of the serpent "seraph" De 8:15 Who led thee through that great and terrible wilderness, wherein were fiery serpents, and scorpions, and drought, where there was no water; who brought thee forth water out of the rock of flint; Both words side by side, associated with rock of flint, the simile for heavenly Father. Ex 37:7 And he made two cherubims of gold, beaten out of one piece made he them, on the two ends of the mercy seat; 8 One cherub on the end on this side, and another cherub on the other end on that side: out of the mercy seat made he the cherubims on the two ends thereof. Two angels on both sides of the mercy seat, where our heavenly Father sits. So I agree we don't know much so far from Moses 5 books, we have angels, sin, deceived, serpent and angels sitting next to GOD... Sorry Dave, I will have to stop, this nit-picking is really wasting your time and my time, it's more important to spend time supporting GOD, we will have to agree to disagree, and let God judge our words from now on. --------------- Richard 1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, God created creatures with variety and fun, no human would laugh at a blue haired person. It is written : ".. this is a struggle between two gods – I will not say this as you want me to.."Neither would I.... Creator / Creature... I get it, this is not two gods.... the word "God" does not exist in Hebrew anyway...so that is a term invented by man... the term "el" or "al" means "Strong Authority", does not imply only divine elements... for we humans are made a little lower than elohiym... Scripture alludes to a very high angel who first sinned long before mankind did.... that is a Scriptural fact.... and if I add testimonies to Moses: Isa 6:2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. 3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. Isaiah says one seraph with 6 wings flies... Isa 14:29 Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent. Both serpent seraph and flying all here. So what is a seraph, ? An angel ? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 6, 2020 7:11:29 GMT -5
Character cannot be the me inside that my character reflects.
Rob replies: Character is a simile of "wind" as Dave says "spirit", the thing that makes you, you. Agree - that thing inside me (deep inside) sub-conscious to (Mind/Body) Spirit is a good word - it means essence - but like electricity you only experience spirit as it moves / interacts HS is the invisible arm of God that is omnipresent Spirit = the expression of the soul
So for me - this thing deep inside me is soul - but you can call it spirit (insitu) within us
It is not conscious self - conscious self that thinks, does math, and is driven by nature = (Mind/Body) the product of animal brain Words like personality and character are products of the biological brain
It is (sub-conscious +(conscious/Body)) - but sub-conscious makes it seem another biological function - it is not - it is spirit me - my soul
The word for spirit = ruwach - agree please we argued a long time - you have to make the word mean HS only NO - it only means spirit - my spirit - the spirit of the game - or the HS
You had me excited when you began to speak of Nephesh - that is given by the HS/God that sustains all living creatures I am good with that - all living creatures are (Nephesh/Body) I am sure my (Nephesh/Body) dogs all think and consider if they should bark or growl
But at Gen 2:7 - man became more - a (Ruwach (wind/breath) + (Nephesh/Body)
Where we part is I say this = (my ruwach soul + Nephesh/Body)
I say my ruwach soul was created when everything was created and I existed with God before I became a human being - and it my ruwach soul that will stand judgment And yes - my ruwach soul is eternal because I continue beyond judgment
You are stuck on the word ruwach which you have to mean only HS Therefore you must have (HS + (Nephesh/Body) Therefore you see man no different than my dog each man is just created when born mortal just (Mind/Body) When is the last time you saw a dog or cat contemplate his existence, or the existence of God?
It is your HS that that drives our (Mind/Bodies) It is your HS that returns to God to stand judgment This is what you tell me
I am not sure if it can be defined easily...hence the Bible way to add it to the word "HS", does NOT imply what your saying Dave.... the Divine empowers us, gives us this thing.... but it is US who is a steward of it, a part of GOD given to us to develop as us, eternal... yes, your term "spirit" is fine as a meaning.
So the "wind" or "spirit" is a gift from GOD, that returns to GOD, hence I use the term "HS as an administrator of your character" is the term you use as "spirit".
So what are you saying we are all just fractions of the HS walking around There is no individuality - we are all a collective of the HS
I have asked you before if this also applies to angels They also are not individuals - that are just more fraction of the HS this would make your satan just the HS -----------
Dave writes: "I looked all through the Torah – could not find Ezk 28 or Isa 14 Yes but these scrolls are the prophets, testimonies of Moses... Does Moses speak of cherub?
Ge 3:24 Cherub placed inn garden to prevent access to tree of life... why stop this access? Really you do not know this asnswer? ... refused access to tree of life OH - you do know the answer and totally 100% under God’s control doing exactly what God Willed How does this prove the cherub of Ek 28 has free will - it doesn’t
Ge 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: Who is this serpent? How does this prove the cherub of Ek 28 has free will - it doesn’t
Ex 4:3 Here it is used as a symbol of power and totally 100% under God’s control doing exactly what God Willed How does this prove the cherub of Ek 28 has free will - it doesn’t
Nu 21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and totally 100% under God’s control doing exactly what God willed How does this prove the cherub of Ek 28 has free will - it doesn’t
Ex 37:7 And he made two cherubims of gold, beaten out of one piece made he them, on the two ends of the mercy seat; Cool - statues - How does this prove the cherub of Ek 28 has free will - it doesn’t
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2020 13:10:54 GMT -5
Dave you think too deeply at times, going beyond what Scripture reveals...
You break Bible principles at times:
Ps 131:1 ¶ <<A Song of degrees of David.>> LORD, my heart is not haughty, nor mine eyes lofty: neither do I exercise myself in great matters, or in things too high for me. 2 Surely I have behaved and quieted myself, as a child that is weaned of his mother: my soul is even as a weaned child.
The principle is we must learn s a child, accepting things simply. Not get involved in great matters of quantum physics.
But your science person and you go deep.... that is OK, to a point.
Dave asks: "So what are you saying we are all just fractions of the HS walking around There is no individuality - we are all a collective of the HS
Well of course is the simple answer... you know everything, EVERYTHING comes from GOD. The E, the M and the C2. Everything, including the "spirit" that makes you you... sure it is eternal... but you cannot own it... doesn't scripture say GOD owns the cattle on 1000 hills?
You neglect Scripture:
Ec 8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death.
What is this verse telling you?
Re 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. (KJV)
This verse says all humans can experience the second death, but if you choose Jesus who died the second death for you, you don't experience this separation from GOD, you only sleep, (the first death is just a sleep) until the Second Coming of Jesus.
And this verse spoken by the Serpent:
Ge 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Why can the serpent say this lie so confidently? Because He sinned and hasn't died the second death yet, so GOD must be lying.
If you say the "soul" is eternal than how does the "Second death" fit in, and the concept of "sinning"?
You asked the question concerning the "cherub" not discussed much in Moses, but is discussed in the testimonies, the writings of prophets....
In Ezekiel 28 it says a "cherub sinned", doing this implies free will doesn't it?
In Gen 3:4 the serpent speaks a lie... is this a lie Dave?
If the serpent's statement is a lie, than the serpent is sinning, and we have sinning already happening in Genesis BEFORE mankind sinned.... Correct?
Doesn't the book of Moses teach this?
Ge 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness "choshek".
Here the book of Moses alludes to "choshek", simile of sinning as well, so something went wrong long before Adam and Eve sinned? Is this correct?
Notice the serpent:
In Numbers 21, the serpent is placed on a pole that whoever looks at the serpent is healed by faith from their snake bite.
This is a weird poetry metaphor isn't it? If a snake brings RA, you look by faith at the snake RA and GOD heals you... sure you say GOD is the administrator of RA.... but what symbols are going on here?
Notice Jesus explains this in the NT...
Joh 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die. 34 The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man?
SO the "seraph" on the pole was a symbol of TWO BEINGS of BURNING... the serpent, who does RA, and the Christ who does TOV.
If you follow the Hebrew closely, two Hebrew words were placed on the pole, the "seraph" and the "serpent".
Now the message of this serpent, sinning, is already seen in Moses, the book of Genesis.
In the Garden are two trees, the Tree of CHAY, and the Tree of TOV/RA.
One tree when eaten weekly, gave Adam and Eve CHAY, hence ongoing eternal living.
The other tree introduces two Hebrew words contrasting each other TOV/RA.
The sinless pair were not experiencing TOV and RA, or even TOV. They were experiencing perfection, complete CHAY.... eternal ongoing living.
This conditional test was based on obedience, and disobedience is called sin.
So did the serpent lie, when He said ye shall not dying die?
If the answer is yes, than the serpent sinned before Eve sinned. If the answer is no, God is a liar. Scripture says God cannot lie.
Also is a serpent can lie, hence sin, this implies free will:
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 6, 2020 15:57:54 GMT -5
Ps 131:1 The principle is we must learn s a child, accepting things simply. Not get involved in great matters of quantum physics.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Psa 19:1 ... The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
You say it is not mean for man to understand – sounds like a catholic priest
But your science person and you go deep.... that is OK, to a point. If a theory is valid it stands all scrutiny Catholicism stands as long as you don’t look at too closely
Dave asks: "So what are you saying we are all just fractions of the HS walking around There is no individuality - we are all a collective of the HS
Well of course is the simple answer... you know everything, EVERYTHING comes from GOD. The E, the M and the C2. Everything, including the "spirit" that makes you you... sure it is eternal... but you cannot own it... doesn't scripture say GOD owns the cattle on 1000 hills? OK – God owns 1000 cows – how does this prove that you have no soul – you are not an individual
Ec 8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death.
What is this verse telling you? No Mortal can control spirit – DUH No mortal can evade death - DUH
Re 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
This verse says all humans can experience the second death, but if you choose Jesus who died the second death for you, you don't experience this separation from GOD, you only sleep, (the first death is just a sleep) until the Second Coming of Jesus. Correct – we are created eternal – it is up to us to throw our lives away – agree However – if you are not of the first fruits – who are not sleeping – how would you qualify as a believer?
And this verse spoken by the Serpent: Why can the serpent say this lie so confidently? Because he is a liar – DUH – this is his function you doubt he is able to do it well God designated Michael to be a warrior and guardian of the throne – I hope he knows how to fight God made the sun to give light – I hope it keeps working
If you say the "soul" is eternal than how does the "Second death" fit in, and the concept of "sinning"? we are created eternal – it is up to us to throw our lives away
You asked the question concerning the "cherub" not discussed much in Moses, but is discussed in the testimonies, the writings of prophets....
In Ezekiel 28 it says a "cherub sinned", doing this implies free will doesn't it? If the sun was made to give light – it gives light If the angel was made to praised – it only praises The Chief Archon was made gross and lied from the very first thought – a thought of arrogance
In Gen 3:4 the serpent speaks a lie... is this a lie Dave? The Chief Archon is a liar from his very first thought – don’t you get it
If the serpent's statement is a lie, than the serpent is sinning, and we have sinning already happening in Genesis BEFORE mankind sinned.... Correct? Absolutely – Gen 1:2 - agree
Notice the serpent:
In Numbers 21, the serpent is placed on a pole that whoever looks at the serpent is healed by faith from their snake bite.
This is a weird poetry metaphor isn't it? If a snake brings RA, you look by faith at the snake RA and GOD heals you... sure you say GOD is the administrator of RA.... but what symbols are going on here?
WOW – I love this section of scripture – Feel Good Catholics never get it A thing only has power over you if you do not understand / know / realize what it is Satan is only effective if we deny his existence Moses took a serpent (which was an evil spirit / disembodied archon) and made it obvious to everyone Whoever realized – gnosis – what was truly happening were cured – why The archon cannot harm you directly – they have no power over you – they only suggest / temp
If satan came out today and said follow me – the paradigm of TOV and RA would fall apart If people knew there was a satan – they would turn to God – and be healed
Later – however - 1000 yrs later, the people FORGET - the symbology and this serpent becomes the'other god' Nehushtan Remember it began as a firery flying serpent - evil spirit - disembodied archon That becomes an 'other god' to heal sickness and wounds 2 Kings 18
Started as an archon - remaind and archon all the time - and ended as an archon What began as a pest - grew into somethong more religious by man - became worship This is just like my x-buddy Pat We began this web-site / forum / ministry - to explore a more meaningfull Bible Study To explore scripture on a post graduate level We did as all ministeries - we applied for a 501c-3 US tax standing
The scam was - I donate all my money to the ministry - I pay no tax Then I as a ministry spend the money on myself to do the work of the ministry Religious tax shelter - I admit it - in 2011 I had all kinds of fantesies Then my friend and fellow froum member Virginia offered to donate a large sum of money (1/2 a years wages) My 'friend' Pat couldn't spend the money fast enought - I could not take it with a clean conscious It damaged our friendship - and I never completed the application Pass the HAT - praise the Lord - you better tithe 10% -
OH - I fully understand how something cand begin with the best intentions and them morph into the corporate business of religion - soon you have famous men of God (representing Christianity to the World) complain because they need a new corporate jet - or a bigger cathederial
Notice Jesus explains this in the NT... Joh 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
YES! – in the womb we are all taught the Torah by God – Jesus speaking as a man
Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die. 34 The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man?
SO the "seraph" on the pole was a symbol of TWO BEINGS of BURNING... the serpent, who does RA, and the Christ who does TOV. OK – I’ll go with this – Just as the serpent was place on the pole to make the spiritual nature of our Contest real and tangible Christ was raise upon a pole to make the spiritual nature of our Contest real and tangible
The afterlife is real and tangible and we can follow Christ to it – Thank you Jesus I said this in another post - you argued / disagreed
One tree when eaten weekly, gave Adam and Eve CHAY, hence ongoing eternal living. What – Adam and Eve had to eat of the tree of life to stay alive? MYTHOLOGY – scripture please So the gift of life is a drug – as long as we remain addicted we live
So did the serpent lie, when He said ye shall not dying die? If the answer is yes, than the serpent sinned before Eve sinned. Or his boss the Chief Archon did – in gen 1:2 - agreed If the answer is no, God is a liar. Scripture says God cannot lie. Or – the archon were created to lie and the serpent was only doing what God Willed him to God uses the ra to facilitate his Will – ra is a tool Also is a serpent can lie, hence sin, this implies free will: Or his will is that of a lier - because that is the way he was made
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