Post by Dave on Aug 17, 2023 13:55:39 GMT -5
The debate between Robert and I has always been this Catholic Fallen Angels false doctrine.
Robert – and all Catholics - take it to the extreme – and angel rebbelled against God and changed his own form and function within creation against God’s Will – then alter God’s Plan for His creation also against God’s Will – and Roberts mantra has always been “satan hates and opposes God”
Robert and his Ellen White SDA teach there are two gods locked in an eternal controversy
Robert as gone so far to say - "Yes, he has two gods and two kings, what's wrong with that?"
Jews, Messianic Jews of Jewish background, Gnostic Christians of any century – do not believe this
Jewish belief #3 – Hebrew satan does not oppose God – he works for God
www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13219-satan
"He can not be regarded, therefore, as an opponent of the Deity; and the doctrine of monotheism is disturbed by his existence"
Correction there are 49 verse that us the word satan 56 times
23 in the OT leaving 26 from the NT
Robert and I have done this same exercise once before
I will use the line by line – word for word approach to a word study of satan
Maybe there is some benefit to this approach
2Sa 24:1 Now the anger of Adonai again flared up against Israel, so He incited David against them saying, “Go, number Israel and Judah.”
1Ch_21:1 Then satan stood up against Israel and incited David to count Israel.
At the time – more than 3 years ago – Roberts frustrated conclusion was”
Then Robert tried to justify his mantra that – "his satan hates and opposes God"
By concluding – well anyone that opposes man is opposing God
The follow up question was always – is God satan and hate and oppose Himself when God opposes man?
Israel has an entire OT history of opposing other men and their nations – have the Jews always hated and opposed God by obeying God?
To which Robert has no answer for
Now finally we have a second chance to see if Robert’s theology has grown – in each verse the object here is for Robert to demonstrate that his satan hates and opposes God
-----------------------------------------------------------
Here are the verses all from your beloved KJV
1Ch_21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
2Sa 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
Job_1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job_1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Job_1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Job_1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Job_1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
Job_2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job_2:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Job_2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
Job_2:4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
Job_2:6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
Job_2:7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
Psa_109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
Zec_3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
Zec_3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
Mat_4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Mat_12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
Mat_16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Mar_1:13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
Mar_3:23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
Mar_3:26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
Mar_4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
Mar_8:33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
Luk_4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Luk_10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Luk_11:18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
Luk_13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?
Luk_22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
Luk_22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
Joh_13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
Act_5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act_26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Rom_16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
1Co_5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1Co_7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
2Co_2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
2Co_11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co_12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
1Th_2:18 Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.
2Th_2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
1Ti_1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
1Ti_5:15 For some are already turned aside after Satan.
Rev_2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Rev_2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
Rev_2:24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
Rev_3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Rev_12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev_20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev_20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Robert – and all Catholics - take it to the extreme – and angel rebbelled against God and changed his own form and function within creation against God’s Will – then alter God’s Plan for His creation also against God’s Will – and Roberts mantra has always been “satan hates and opposes God”
Robert and his Ellen White SDA teach there are two gods locked in an eternal controversy
Robert as gone so far to say - "Yes, he has two gods and two kings, what's wrong with that?"
Jews, Messianic Jews of Jewish background, Gnostic Christians of any century – do not believe this
Jewish belief #1 – God is absolute – Anything that has come into being was made by God for God. God is absolute – His creation is exactly as He Willed it to be
Jewish belief #2 – God test His people
Jewish belief #2 – God test His people
Jewish belief #3 – Hebrew satan does not oppose God – he works for God
www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13219-satan
"He can not be regarded, therefore, as an opponent of the Deity; and the doctrine of monotheism is disturbed by his existence"
Dave" There are 23 + 49 verses that use the word satan
Please go through each one and demonstrate once and for all that your satan god hates and opposes God
You won’t – because you cannot – it will not support your teaching so you will not look there
ROb" I am happy to go there,
So over to you, what English word do you intend to use in this study?
Dave" There are 23 + 49 verses that use the word satan
Please go through each one and demonstrate once and for all that your satan god hates and opposes God
You won’t – because you cannot – it will not support your teaching so you will not look there
ROb" I am happy to go there,
So over to you, what English word do you intend to use in this study?
Dave" There are 23 + 49 verses that use the word satan
Correction there are 49 verse that us the word satan 56 times
23 in the OT leaving 26 from the NT
Robert and I have done this same exercise once before
Bible Study – satan
I will use the line by line – word for word approach to a word study of satan
Maybe there is some benefit to this approach
2Sa 24:1 Now the anger of Adonai again flared up against Israel, so He incited David against them saying, “Go, number Israel and Judah.”
1Ch_21:1 Then satan stood up against Israel and incited David to count Israel.
At the time – more than 3 years ago – Roberts frustrated conclusion was”
All your "hoo har" over 49 verses verses 23, doesn't matter, I need only one verse, apart from Ezek, I have Rev 12. There was war in heaven?
Then Robert tried to justify his mantra that – "his satan hates and opposes God"
By concluding – well anyone that opposes man is opposing God
The follow up question was always – is God satan and hate and oppose Himself when God opposes man?
Israel has an entire OT history of opposing other men and their nations – have the Jews always hated and opposed God by obeying God?
To which Robert has no answer for
Now finally we have a second chance to see if Robert’s theology has grown – in each verse the object here is for Robert to demonstrate that his satan hates and opposes God
-----------------------------------------------------------
Here are the verses all from your beloved KJV
1Ch_21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
2Sa 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
Job_1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job_1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Job_1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Job_1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Job_1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
Job_2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job_2:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Job_2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
Job_2:4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
Job_2:6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
Job_2:7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
Psa_109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
Zec_3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
Zec_3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
Mat_4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Mat_12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
Mat_16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Mar_1:13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
Mar_3:23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
Mar_3:26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
Mar_4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
Mar_8:33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
Luk_4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Luk_10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Luk_11:18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
Luk_13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?
Luk_22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
Luk_22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
Joh_13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
Act_5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act_26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Rom_16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
1Co_5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1Co_7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
2Co_2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
2Co_11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co_12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
1Th_2:18 Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.
2Th_2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
1Ti_1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
1Ti_5:15 For some are already turned aside after Satan.
Rev_2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Rev_2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
Rev_2:24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
Rev_3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Rev_12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev_20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev_20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,