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Post by Dillon on Aug 26, 2023 16:45:50 GMT -5
Walid Shoebat Gives A 25 Minutes Speech That Sums It All Up! (From 2008)
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Post by rob on Aug 26, 2023 17:14:58 GMT -5
Greetings Dave You say it is too late to apologize to you for judging you?
Cannot you forgive your enemies, as Jesus told us to?
And I do not consider you my enemy, but a friend.
How many other people would converse to so long if we were enemies. I even have to tolerate your mocking. But I do, because I like the challenge you give to learning Scritpure more than I do currently. If we totally agreed on all things, we would say nothing to each other world we? ------------------
Sometimes you say weird things :-
I quote" Darkness came first – Gen 1:2 / Rev 12:3 Light came next – Gen 1:3 / Rev 12:5 Darkness is the result of the Beast sinning against the entirety – he expressed his ignorance say he was alone and the first" end quote
In my two pennies humble experience of science, light eradicates darkness altogether. It's light nature. I remember reading of experiments where science went through 12 doors, a mile underground, and that little light went with them, and after 6 weeks or so living in the darkness, the men under study, saw things less than 100% black, like 99.9% black, the light that went with them was still illuminating things after 6 weeks of bouncing around the walls. This is the presence, natural function of GOD.
And you say Darkness came first. Is complete bogus idea to me and to science experiments. Even Einstein as a child disagrees with you.
Darkness does not exist. It is only a term to describe a relationship, where GOD leaves a place to have less of God's powers flowing in that place. But you do not consider this idea. No
You have darkness as some natural entity that exists as much as GOD exists. Totally bogus idea.
If God didn't exist, nothing would exist. Some Jews say not even space itself would exist. Hmm? Not sure I would go that far, but my point is, darkness would not exist if God ceased to exist. You go against this idea.
No wonder your whole theory gets you off track. You start on this natural darkness idea.
Have you actually studied the Hebrew word Ac 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God,
Here is the Hebrew word explained in the NT torah
darkness comes from a power from STN, while light comes as a power from GOD.
This is a contrast, which I feel is not technically true, because the Opposer has no real powers of his own, because normally an Opposer cannot exist, unless GOD allows him to exist. But as a opposite parallel, it is true.
Sin, or really the idea of missing, means GOD is missing from the universe where the Opposer is banished to.
Hence the area is darkness because God leaves the sinner to his own world, hence lack of God becomes darkness.
Not some natural entity as you claim. So you oppose Einstein on this idea too?
You oppose the Scriptures on this idea too?
Now consider the verse you directly oppose:-
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do
THis is written as opposite parallels
GOD forms light and makes peace AND GOD engineers darkness and RA.
Notice the only natural things in God's world, is God Himself, Light and Peace. All other things have to be engineered or created.
So matter, atoms, friction, entropy, darkness and chaos have to be engineered by GOD in order for these to exist, because normally they do not exist. That is what the verse is saying.
Now we have to ask why does GOD create darkness and RA.
Well that is easy to answer because these things are consequences of SIN. And sinning is not natural, not allowed to exist in the presence of GOD. -------------------------------
It's funny you agree with me in your words you quote, but upon inspection, you say the word "sinning" does not mean "morally sinning", and the word "ignorance" does NOT mean "sinning" either. BOY what oxymoron of word meaning you pose.
"Darkness is the result of the Beast sinning against the entirety " Yes that is exactly in agreement with Acts 26:18 darkness came from Satan, the opposer, because in Ezekiel 28, it says the cherub sinned. --------------------------------
Than you say "darkness is ignorance of truth" . While this sounds OK, ignorance is NOT a sin according to you, not a sin arising from free will to sin. ---------------------------------
Dave" You mock the term Free Will No case if a cow eats grass or hay – his free will choice He choose which choice his (yester ra) desires ROb" No I don't. If we could talk to the cow, our pinal gland used to allow us to do this talking, we would find the cow saying" I eat grass because in the beginning God gave us herbs for meat. Ge 1:30. I sometimes do RA things but I cannot ask my Lord to forgive me, because my soul goeth downwards Ec 3:21 , upon my death" I see all creatures with a soul as having free will to make decisions, but only man's actions are recorded, and only his spirit is recorded for living forever if the man seeks God as his Saviour.
Eve was not shocked by a talking serpent, all the animals freely conversed with humans, and spoke about the goodness of the Lord who created them. Even plants also talk, weird to you I know. You do not like the vegetarian sharks and the lions that only ate grass, and the trees that were made of silicon, not wood.
Maybe I am a little strange, but at least my understanding of GOD is more absolute in power than yours is. Your God has to deal with natural darkness first. Bogus idea Dave" Just more Robert word games – doesn’t even deserve a response Rob" OH so I suppose the word "elohiym" is wrongly placed in the Scriptures?
Why did make man higher than the cherubs nearest the elohiym?
Because this creature made in the image of elohiym, was to replace the sinning cherubims from their sinning. What a priviledged host we will be!
Witnesses to the problem of the first sin, and first sinning. man is second sin and sinning
Dave" I know you doubt it – but THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUE GOD ROb" Explain than how the Father died, leaving his soul as a ransom for sins in the grave for 3 days and nights?
Dave" Correct – man has the Free Will to follow any god he chooses
Rob PP" You have no elohiym powers in your view, such a creature must know both GOOD and EVIL and choose freely between both. ROb" Correct, you have no other elohiym powers for man to follow. Man has to sin first become an elohiym power, and than oppose GOD. You do not consider the serpent as an elohiym power. But often you do write this, but don't mean this. You word game. This elohiym power has to be sinning to become an elohiym power, knowing both good and evil. But you don't like this, so you word game.
Dave" I am the one that believes the OT – shedim, Lilith, other gods of the Levant, other gods of the whole world, and the archon of the coming alien invasion ROb" Yes but you have to invent some Gnostic way to make them have an origin. God says the saraph creature was near God and sinned.
Placed on the pole against Christ, in opposing each other, also a saraph being. One sins, the other doesn't.
That is the orgin of the saraph creature.....the shedim, the first ones that sinned. Man only sinned second, not first.
Dave" For 1000s of years it was/is a standard Jewish teaching ROb" I have been reading CHinese writings, more than 3000 years ago, long before your Jewish writings. They also speak of shedim creatures, and a devil like being.
Dave" Man is a spirit being – has always been a spirit being ROb"and this is based upon what verses exactly?
Dave" You teach all men are God Therefore every sin man does is actually God sinning ROb" sick Dave. Man is partnered to GOD, you agree to this idea as an atomic level. So according to you when man sins, the atom sins too. sick
The partnership gives the partnership free will to make independent decisions.
FOr example Daddy put me upon his knee and I drove the car all by myself (so I thought) off the road and back unto the road. I was 7 years old.
Do you understand what yoke and partner means in torah?
Dave" Sorry Robert – man is an individual being – and will be judged as an individual being Rob" correct
Dave" I will not disagree with scripture – the serpent deceived He told Eve the truth – although it was incomplete ROb" Yes, thank you for more confirmation. And in the Bible such talking is a sin. False witness.
Like used car salesman.
Dave" God also told man an incomplete truth ROb" really ? Where? Prove this.
Jeff Benner explains God does avoid talking to stop hurting man's feeling, like Abram lost his penis function and Sarah her womb function.
Show me your GOD message where GOD fails to edify and thus sins.
Dave" Correct – the orgin story of the Beast is not recorded in the OT – it is recorded in the NT Rob" Than the NT torah is invalid.
Ho 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.
THis verse tells me the Lord comes with former torah and latter torah, both must agree.
Dave" Can’t you read – God had a hedge around Job – the hedge had to be removed so satan could approach Job ROb" SO if this is so, the archons cannot try a single human unless GOD removes his hedge.
How did the archon talk to Eve through her hedge?
No human would be sinning than if they are all hedged?
This hedge is a hedge of salvation - my assumption
3 verses only
Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge <suwk> about him, and about <b@`ad> his house <bayith>, and about all that he hath on every side <cabiyb>? thou hast blessed <barak> the work <ma`aseh> of his hands <yad>, and his substance <miqneh> is increased <parats> in the land <'erets>. {substance: or, cattle} Job 10:11 Thou hast clothed <labash> me with skin <`owr> and flesh <basar>, and hast fenced <suwk> me with bones <`etsem> and sinews <giyd>. {fenced: Heb. hedged} Ho 2:6 ¶ Therefore, behold, I will hedge <suwk> up thy way <derek> with thorns <ciyr>, and make <gadar> a wall <gader>, that she shall not find <matsa'> her paths <nathiyb>. {make...: Heb. wall a wall} (KJV)
Jeff benner
J) /J\ (/J\ SWK) ac: Cover co: Booth ab: ?: The booth is a covering. V) /J\ (/J\ SWK) — Hedge: To surround as hedge of protection. [df: KwV] [freq. 3] (vf: Paal) |kjv: hedge, fence| {str: 7753} Nm) /J\ (/J\ SWK) — I. Booth: A dwelling place. [ms: Ko] [df: KV] II. Branch: As used for making booths. [df: KwV] [freq. 5] |kjv: tabernacle, den, pavilion, covert, bough| {str: 5520, 7900}
So this word has verb and noun forms of action.
I get the impression the meaning might be
"house/housing/housed" for both forms
The idea of making a foundation house covering over your soul, to protect you from elements.
Ps 18:35 Thou hast also given me the shield of thy salvation:
I have always assumed God hedges you when you seek salvation, maybe I am wrong?
Ps 28:7 The LORD is my strength and my shield; my heart trusted in him, and I am helped: Does this come before we seek salvation, or after we seek salvation?
In Job's case
Job 1:5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
After. SO Job sought salvation, and GOD protects him from onslaught.
But Dave, you do not understand this.
The archons have lots of chances to trip up Job before, but they failed. Now the STN makes another excuse.
And later even another excuse.
God is open to his challenge, because the STN and his ways is under review, and so is God's nature dealing with sinning elohiym powers.
But you don't see this.
Try and discuss this passage Dave.
Dave" The archon decieve you – they get you off focus ROb" I fail to imagine why GOD would create and design such an agent of RA on purpose? It's makes GOD cruel, and would cause many to turn from God if they learned of your ideas Dave. Question: Why does GOD allow bad things to happen to good people? is often asked? Your answer " It was designed that way, for God's glory.
You do not discuss the ugly head of sin and the sinning elohiym power God is dealing with.
Dave" the archon cannot force you ROb" OH so the people of Maui (Hawaii) were completely DEW destroyed, cars exploded, brains blew apart, because they refused to offer up land for the merchants of earth.
Sure Dave. The opposer cannot use force. Bogus idea.
Dave" Now - will you finish - you promised Rob" Yes but answer JOb's story first.
1) DId the archons have access to Job throughout his life, before he decided to be saved?
A simple yes or no, with reasons.
2) Explain why the archon spoke to God, is NOT a challenge. Does Job seek salvation for nought?
Millions of seekers seek love without rewards of a happy life. Jesus is a good example. No happy life for HIM. Always tempted by archons to get him to sin. Not get Jesus to love the world. But get Jesus to show off with His divine power. Make stones into bread.
Jump of the temple.
Worship me and I will give you the world.
Examples of different sins. Jesus refused all these.
Sweating drops of blood form stress.
Tortured twice, once would kill an ordinary man, with whipping.
Always talked to trap him.
Bastard beginning so Jews said. Some not all.
Didn't understand the perced Messiah, but some did.
And you say the SON of Man, the SON of GOD is really the Father dressed into looking like a Son on earth, one Being only that is able to love. Love himself. Really Dave.
How much Scripture do you mock. Father and SOn.
Abram and Isaac. Mother and Father in Proverbs 1.
The Bible abounds in echad meaning, not yaccid meaning.
How can a Father die and also raise Himself? Islam mocks this idea.
I can explain this easily, since I define death as separation from GOD, like the components of a battery need eacj other to make a single flow, not three flows, but one flow, always called electricity. One source, but three components required to make the flow. Thus love is made from a community, not from a solitary. Now take your time and answer the JOB questions carefully.
So sad the Hawaii issue. Take note the world opposing power is coming global soon. And they use force, not as you claim.
Another week of work, sorry just missed Dillon's post. Next time.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 26, 2023 19:00:59 GMT -5
You say it is too late to apologize to you for judging you? Cannot you forgive your enemies, as Jesus told us to?
Why do you invent words for me – how honest you are
Rob - Nor do I judge anyone. - Dave - too late
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Sometimes you say weird things :-
I quote" Darkness came first – Gen 1:2 / Rev 12:3 Light came next – Gen 1:3 / Rev 12:5 Darkness is the result of the Beast sinning against the entirety – he expressed his ignorance say he was alone and the first" end quote
In my two pennies humble experience of science, light eradicates darkness altogether. It's light nature.
What does that have to do with the order of event within scripture - nothing
And you say Darkness came first. Is complete bogus idea to me
Why do you deny scripture?
Darkness does not exist. It is only a term to describe a relationship, where GOD leaves a place to have less of God's powers flowing in that place.
Yep – entropy of knowledge of the truth into ignorance
But you do not consider this idea. No
Yep – entropy of knowledge of the truth into ignorance ----------------------------------------
Have you actually studied the Hebrew word Ac 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, Here is the Hebrew word explained in the NT torah darkness comes from a power from STN, while light comes as a power from GOD.
Yep – darkness = ignorance of the truth Light – is the light that illuminates the truth --------------------------------------
It's funny you agree with me in your words you quote, but upon inspection, you say the word "sinning" does not mean "morally sinning", and the word "ignorance" does NOT mean "sinning" either. BOY what oxymoron of word meaning you pose.
"Darkness is the result of the Beast sinning against the entirety " Yes that is exactly in agreement with Acts 26:18 darkness came from Satan, the opposer, because in Ezekiel 28, it says the cherub sinned.
Than you say "darkness is ignorance of truth" . While this sounds OK, ignorance is NOT a sin according to you, not a sin arising from free will to sin.
Yep – not counted as a sin – and God call it tov ---------------------------------
Dave" I know you doubt it – but THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUE GOD ROb" Explain than how the Father died, leaving his soul as a ransom for sins in the grave for 3 days and nights?
Jesus – the Son of Man died upon the cross – 100% biological death Christ – spirit - the Son of God wss poured out – released – let go – to return into heaven
You deny the spirit and you must deny scripture to follow Ellen White
1Pe 3:18 For Messiah once suffered for sins also—the righteous for the unrighteous—in order to bring you to God. He was put to death in the flesh, but made alive by the Ruach. 1Pe 3:19 Through the Ruach He also went and preached to the spirits in prison. 1Pe 3:20 Long ago they disobeyed while God kept waiting patiently, in the days of Noah as the ark was being built. In that ark a few (that is, eight souls) were brought safely through water. -------------------------------------
Dave" Man is a spirit being – has always been a spirit being ROb"and this is based upon what verses exactly? Dave" For 1000s of years it was/is a standard Jewish teaching
This is a Jewish teaching – it is a Chrisrian teaching – you are the onlly one that doubts scripture We have been all over the verses before – you just want to change the subject so you can stop tryng to prove your satan rebels, hates, and opposes God -------------------------------------
Jews say – I say – and Christianity says – LIFE LIVES Rob - Sure when you die the "spirit" lives, but this spirit is the HS of GOD, Dave" You teach all men are God Therefore every sin man does is actually God sinning ROb" sick Dave. Man is partnered to GOD, What man? – you deny there is a man – only the HS – the Spirit of God within each animal
Dave" Sorry Robert – man is an individual being – and will be judged as an individual being Rob" correct
Just a moment ago you denied that man was an individual – he is the HS or he is God – there is no such thing as the inner man – the spirit of man ----------------------------------------
Dave" God also told man an incomplete truth ROb" really ? Where? Prove this. Did God fully explain the process of salvation - NO Therefore you claim God is a sinning creature ----------------------------
Dave" Correct – the orgin story of the Beast is not recorded in the OT – it is recorded in the NT Rob" Than the NT torah is invalid.
Yes there is an awful lot of NT scripture you must deny to follow Ellen White Just more evidence of her satanic connection She taught that everyone should read scripture differently – more evidence of her satanic connection
She has taught you it is OK to modify scripture to fit your denominational traditions
She has firmly convinced you yo deny the spirit – more evidence of her satanic connection
Now she has you convinced that the NT Godspel is invalid - Just more evidence of her satanic connection ----------------------------------------
Dave" The archon decieve you – they get you off focus ROb" I fail to imagine why GOD would create and design such an agent of RA on purpose? It's makes GOD cruel, and would cause many to turn from God if they learned of your ideas Dave.
Question: Why does GOD allow bad things to happen to good people? is often asked? Your answer " It was designed that way, for God's glory.
Bad things happen to good people because 1) this world is a harsh place – no satan required 2) sometimes accidents are just accidents – no satan required 3) some times we are being tested 4) sometimes we are pawns in someone else’s testing
Dave" the archon cannot force you ROb" OH so the people of Maui (Hawaii) were completely DEW destroyed, cars exploded, brains blew apart, because they refused to offer up land for the merchants of earth.
I will agree with you that democratic leadership is selfish The issue in Hawaii = instead of leading and warning the people – taking pro-active measures - leadership took refuge -------------------------------------
Sure Dave. The opposer cannot use force. Bogus idea. The archon cannot possess you – unless you are willing – you have to invite them in ---------------------------------
Dave" Now - will you finish - you promised Rob" Yes but answer JOb's story first.
1) DId the archons have access to Job throughout his life, before he decided to be saved? A simple yes or no, with reasons.
Already answered this question twice – NO – God had a hedge around Job
2) Explain why the archon spoke to God, is NOT a challenge. Does Job seek salvation for nought? How can telling God the truth be a challenge? ---------------------------------
Not get Jesus to love the world. But get Jesus to show off with His divine power. Make stones into bread. Jump of the temple. Worship me and I will give you the world. Examples of different sins.
Correct – the devil tempted the Son of Man But Christ – Son of God - spoke up and claimed to be God incarnate
Another week of work,
Cool – maybe when you come back you will finish you challenge instead of post a bout of crap to avoid the direct question
sorry just missed Dillon's post. Next time. In Dillon’s defense – you have told him this more than once and never responded STILL WAITING
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Post by rob on Aug 31, 2023 17:02:13 GMT -5
Greetings Dillon
I watched the video:-
Walid Shoebat 25 minute speech
Different kinds of Muslims Not such thing are two kinds, Muslim is a peaceful religion, we all worship the same God Allah, Buddha, YHWH, how long would you like? There is a difference between religions Bible is also a destiny road map for all mankind, of prophetic nature Joel 3" I gather all nations, Amos 9"15 no long pulle dout of that land establish the land again Israel. 6 day war Islam is a constitution (not a religion only) swears on the Korah indoctrainate lots of converts. There is no God but Allah and Modemodud is his messenger. criticizing religon part of our culture, we only criticize Christianity, not Islam Give me one moderate Muslim, Islam is always fully on, doing away with Jewsm Zionism Hab 3, Is 10 , Joel 3, Who are you to atend with me. Is 63: 8 Muslum, Israel, surely they are my people, God became a Saviour, He was afflicted. God died naked, like Jews died naked (halacaust) Hatred of woman comes from the devil Jews corrupt Bible, reading Korah, but things were not as I read them. Psalm 83, come let us cut them off being a nation Ps 82:8 you inherit all nations God coming down to judge the earth Mt olives and split in two Turkey is not your friend. Islam wants to destroy your children. Islam is likeNazi, cult like indoctrination of masses
Islam is mentioned in the Rev torah as prophecy, what specifically did you want to talk about? I would agree with the speaker in the video. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greetings Dave
Much of what you have said is your right to speak, I presented you things, and so you disagree with them. Your choice.
Now to the thread of the Opposer opposing GOD.
ROb PP" 1) DId the archons have access to Job throughout his life, before he decided to be saved? A simple yes or no, with reasons.
Dave" Already answered this question twice – NO – God had a hedge around Job Rob" so you are saying this hedge is always around humans, preventing the archons from attacking the humans, and we are only attacked by humans, if GOD allows this and removes His hedge?
Something wrong with your theory Lucky for me the Bible defines the context of the hedge.
Job 1:10"thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land"
Since when Dave is GOD blessing all humans from birth, all the wicked humans too, with blessings and an increase of the land, so our blessing become increased? It is my understanding this kind of blessing increase happens when you love the GOD, AFTER he has SAVED you and you are responding to the SALVATION process. And thus no longer intentionally sin.
Hence this kind of hedging process is NOT for all humans, but only those who seek SALVATION.
Job 1:5 ...for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
It is obvious to all readers, JOB was practicing the SALVATION process continually.
When you practice the Salvation process, does GOD protect you? Yes !
Ps 18:35 Thou hast also given me the shield of thy salvation: and thy right hand hath holden me up, and thy gentleness hath made me great.
ROb" Many verses on this idea....
Jeff Benner on the word meaning of HEDGE
J) /J\ (/J\ SWK) ac: Cover co: Booth ab: ?: The booth is a covering. V) /J\ (/J\ SWK) — Hedge: To surround as hedge of protection. [df: KwV] [freq. 3] (vf: Paal) |kjv: hedge, fence| {str: 7753} Nm) /J\ (/J\ SWK) — I. Booth: A dwelling place. [ms: Ko] [df: KV] II. Branch: As used for making booths. [df: KwV] [freq. 5] |kjv: tabernacle, den, pavilion, covert, bough| {str: 5520, 7900} I will use the Jeff Benner words to show you the exact Hebrew word the Opposer used against GOD. This word comes with both verb and noun actions.
Ps 27:5 For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock.
THis verses uses the word "hedge -related word cok" meaning GOD hides us from archon attack by protecting the SAVED, and setting theme upon the FLINT rock of the FATHER.
Jer 25:38 He hath forsaken his covert, as the lion: for their land is desolate because of the fierceness of the oppressor, and because of his fierce anger.
Interesting verse, GOD abandons humans from his protection, because of the fierce oppressor, because GOD is angry ( I assume over the humans sinning)
Job 1:1 ¶ There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
JOB is opposite to this verse. amd seeks GOD so He can sin less, and fears God so JOb can love the Lord. Hence the hedge comes over Job because of his seeking salvation.
Do you agree with this idea Dave?
Therefore Job is protected from the oppressors?
Do you agree with this idea Dave?
Jer 25:29 For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the city ---- why does GOD allow this?
Jer 25:...for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations,
Jer 25:32 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.
Jer 25:27 ...Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Drink ye, and be drunken, and spue, and fall, and rise no more, because of the sword which I will send among you.
Why is Israel's hedge removed (Jer 25:38 ) ? Because Israel continues to SIN, thus the oppressor is allowed to attack Israel.
Jer 25:11 ....; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.
God punishes Israel for 70 years, removing His Hedge around them.
So NO Dave, the hedging process is not something humans have naturally.
God hedges us and God removes the hedge, all based on how humans loves God or sin against God.
Jer 25:6 And go not after other gods to serve them, and to worship them,
Which elohiym powers would these be? Jer 25:5 ...Turn ye again now every one from his evil way, and from the evil of your doings,
And who does this evil ? the false elohiym power does, who else, that humans worship because they love to sin.
In JOB the elohiym power who causes humans to sin is identifed as the Opposer.
Notice Dave, I make a discussion using Scripture to answer my question
"The archons were allowed to tempt JOB to SIN, long before Job sought Salvation's hedge."
Job is now declared upright and saved, so GOD proclaims this fact to the Opposer
Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Why does GOD talk to the Opposer like this? Why should the Opposer be interested in Job because he is Saved and thus declared sinless? Can you answer this question Dave? ---------------------
ROBPP" 2) Explain why the archon spoke to God, is NOT a challenge. Does Job seek salvation for nought? Dave" How can telling God the truth be a challenge? ROb" How is this a discussion Dave?
The whole meeting is about Salvation
Job 1:5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings
And so Job 1:6 ¶ Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, to continue the Salvation process
But the Opposer was also there. Obviously to what?
1) merely to prosecute the humans regardless of the fact God declared them as sinless?
or
2) to oppose the salvation process as unfair. These are sinners like me, why do you choose to forgive them, when they sin as much as I do? Which option is this?
Having read Jerimiah 25, the answer is clear.
Jer 25:3 ..., and I have spoken unto you, rising early and speaking; but ye have not hearkened.
If humans do not seek GOD and HIS salvation, the HEDGE is removed. No opposer has to request the removal of the hedge, if comes about because GOD does this Himself, because the humans continue to sin willfully.
Jer 25:6 And go not after other gods to serve them, and to worship them,
Wow, and what elohiym powers would these be? human origin? NO, because humans were told to NOT worship them long before a human sinned, in the royal torah, (James 2) when Sabbath day existed, the royal laws are eternal, and established forever. (Ps 119) Jer 25:36 ....for the LORD hath spoiled their pasture.
Why?
Ho 13:6 According to their pasture, so were they filled; they were filled, and their heart was exalted; therefore have they forgotten me.
Because Israel has forgotten GOD, the Saviour who hedges us on His pasture.
Ps 23:1 ...The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. Ps 23:2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
But if humans rise in pride and forget GOD, than GOD does this Jer 25:38 He hath forsaken his covert,( HEDGE) "related word to Job's hedge)
What happens when God does this removal of his hedge?
Jer 25:38...as the lion: for their land is desolate because of the fierceness of the oppressor, and because of his fierce anger.
God than allows the archons to attack the humans and let the humans go back to their sinning. --------------but in JOB-----the HEDGE is there protecting JOB from attack.
And what happens when the HEDGE is removed ?
Jer 25:34 Howl, ye shepherds, and cry; and wallow yourselves in the ashes, ye principal of the flock: for the days of your slaughter and of your dispersions are accomplished; and ye shall fall like a pleasant vessel.
The sheep are slaughtered, raped, killed and broken like clay pots.
This is what happened with Job's kingdom too, his assets were attacked and killed and raped, by wicked humans doing the dirty work of the Opposer, opposing Job as before.
Now Dave, I was careful to look up Jeff Benner's lexicon for word meanings and word related to Hedge, and the Hedge was a verb too. Not many verses of context, but Jer 25 is a great passage.
Notice with JOB, the Opposer has to ask GOD to remove His Hedge, even though JOB is declared upright and thus should be Hedged against archon attack. The archons want another go at Job.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 31, 2023 20:26:12 GMT -5
I watched the video:-Walid Shoebat 25 minute speech Islam is mentioned in the Rev torah as prophecy, what specifically did you want to talk about? I would agree with the speaker in the video. If you agree – why have you refused to identify Allah and Islam as the enemy of Israel during the end-of-days
How can you agree – and support Ellen White’s Covenant Theology Is this why you refuse to watch the video at DISPENSATIONALISM vs. COVENANT THEOLOGY - ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/596/dispensationalism-covenant-theology?page=1&scrollTo=9144Just more empty contradiction coming from Robert-------------------------------- Much of what you have said is your right to speak, I presented you things, and so you disagree with them. Your choice. I Meant / mean every wordIt is impossible to take Robert seriously any more – he clearly denies the New Testament Gospel in favor of the Gospel of Ellen White Ellen White has taught Robert to deny the very essence of Judaeo-Christianity His message is anti-Christian and extremely argumentativeand is built upon the pagan Zoroasterian concept of two opposing gods – one good and one evil.Ellen White has taught Robert to doubt and deny – even so far as to as all science is incorrect – all history is incorrect – and all our Jewish forefathers were incorrect. We can only hope that he is one day touched by the spirit so he can realize all his doubts are unfounded Robert claims to be a Christian YET – is willing to denounce the New Testament1- Someone is deluding themselves – or is an active agent for misinformation 2- Someone is so indoctrinated into his satanic cult that he is willing to deny the truth of scripture 3- Or someone is just pretending and having fun trying to tear down basic Christian principles -------------------------------------- Now to the thread of the Opposer opposing GOD. ROb PP" 1) DId the archons have access to Job throughout his life, before he decided to be saved? A simple yes or no, with reasons. Dave" Already answered this question twice – NO – God had a hedge around Job Rob" so you are saying this hedge is always around humans, Why do you make up ‘false witnesses’ about what I say? More of your lack of academic seriounessI believe I answered your question – there was a hedge around Job – DUH This does not include any other fantasy you care to invent – Mr Honest----------------------------------------------------------- Lucky for me the Bible defines the context of the hedge. Job 1:10"thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land" YES – Job was a wealth man with much to looseJob 1:9 Then the satan responded to Adonai, saying, “Does Job fear God for nothing? Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? Job 1:9 And the Adversary answereth Jehovah and saith, 'For nought is Job fearing God? Since when Dave is GOD blessing all humans from birthJust more of Robert’s anti-scriputral rant – can you stay on topic without inventing all these tangents It is my understanding this kind of blessing increase happens when you love the GOD, AFTER he has SAVED you and you are responding to the SALVATION process. And thus no longer intentionally sin.Correct – reverand Sun Mung Moon is famous for preaching that if you truly believe wealth will be yours Just religious false teaching to attract the gullible
Mat 19:20 “All these I’ve kept,” (commandmants) the young man said to Him. “What do I still lack?”
Mat 19:21 Yeshua said to him, “If you wish to be perfect, go, sell what you own, and give to the poor; and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me.”
Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving, for he had much property.
Mat 19:23 Then Yeshua said to His disciples, “Amen, I tell you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. ------------------------------------------- Job 1:5 ...for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually. It is obvious to all readers, JOB was practicing the SALVATION process continually. Cool – you proved it – Job has someone else to blame Very consistent with your need for satan--------------------------------------------- Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Why does GOD talk to the Opposer like this? Why should the Opposer be interested in Job because he is Saved and thus declared sinless? Can you answer this question Dave? I have answered this question so many times - you just deny scriptureYou refuse to answer why you deny scripture--------------------- ROBPP" 2) Explain why the archon spoke to God, is NOT a challenge. Does Job seek salvation for nought? Dave" How can telling God the truth be a challenge? ROb" How is this a discussion Dave? The whole meeting is about Salvation Sorry Robert – just like the serpent in the garden it is not a sin to be honest with the Lord
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Post by rob on Sept 1, 2023 5:38:51 GMT -5
Greetings Dave Happy Sabbath
Actually we have different theories regarding the end of time, not nessarily only about Islam.
More about the Roman Catholic Church system and the establishing of a global Earth day or rest day for the climate change damaging the world is doing. Such people rest on Sunday, rather than honour the true Sabbath of the Lord, as Jews do on Saturday.
I do not understand your big words and jargon : DISPENSATIONALISM vs. COVENANT THEOLOGY You say the wildest things, and your mocking is totally unfounded.
Try and stick to the thread topic at hand, showing the Opposer is Opposing God.
Dave" I believe I answered your question – there was a hedge around Job – DUH Rob" Yes I get your point,
BUT
when a believer accepts GOD, God protects the believer from further archon attack with a hedge.
Do you agree with this idea?
My earlier post was the hedge is placed only when the human becomes a child of God.
Normally the hedge is not there, so archons can tempt and attack humans at will.
DO you agree with all of this?
Dave" Correct – reverand Sun Mung Moon is famous for preaching that if you truly believe wealth will be yours
ROb" so you don't believe children of God receive a hedge and also are blessed? you are just mocking the idea?
Dave" Cool – you proved it – Job has someone else to blame Very consistent with your need for satan Rob" NO Dave, I am trying to show you the Opposer is opposing God, by taking away God's functional role of saving humans from sin, especially from the false elohiym powers, that are agents for sin.
RobPP "Why should the Opposer be interested in Job because he is Saved and thus declared sinless?
Can you answer this question Dave? Dave" I have answered this question so many times - you just deny scripture God Tests His Chosen Ones What Does the Bible Say About Being Tested? Why Does God Test Us? (James 1:3 and 1 Peter 1:7) God Tests His Chosen Ones Six Ways God Tests Your Faith & Character You refuse to answer why you deny scripture Rob" You list many links but do not answer the question I gave you?
And what has these links got to do why the Opposer is even interested if the human is tested or not?
To you the angel is just a prosecutor interested in a human's sin, not interested if they are tested (whatever that theme means to you)
(1) I do not see why GOD would ask a prosecuting angel about Job's character and sinlessness. (2) But I do see why GOD would ask an Opposing elohiym power about How GOD saved a human from the false ELohiym Power's Kingdom. This would cause the opposing elohiym power to challenge God .
My understanding of JOB, when declared TOM, upright, Sinless and perfect, NO FUTHER testing is required. So why does GOD ask the Opposer about Job? Obvious this question is challenge to the Prince of the World, and how some of his subjects seek GOD, rather than the Prince of the World.
Dave" Sorry Robert – just like the serpent in the garden it is not a sin to be honest with the Lord ROb" I see, so you cannot see my viewpoint regardless how I try to explain it. -----------------------------------------
I will take a rest, to research my next move, with more convincing verses with the Opposer for you. In the mean time, enjoy a little rest yourself on the Sabbath.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 1, 2023 8:20:21 GMT -5
Actually we have different theories regarding the end of time, not nessarily only about Islam. I do not understand your big words and jargon : DISPENSATIONALISM vs. COVENANT THEOLOGY You say the wildest things, and your mocking is totally unfounded.
Dave" I believe I answered your question – there was a hedge around Job – DUH Rob" Yes I get your point, BUT when a believer accepts GOD, God protects the believer from further archon attack with a hedge. Do you agree with this idea?
Absolutely not! If you are lost to the world the archon have already succeeded and do not need to even notice you. But if you become a Christian and attempt to reject the world the archon become our real struggle – Eph 6:12
As Christians we are called to spiritual warfare – the battle is on – between man and world – man and man – man and archon.
As Christians we are called to spiritual warfare – the battle is on – between man and world – man and man – man and archon. - Gen 3:15 – the Great Contest
You have to deny too much scripture to deny the spirit
when a believer accepts GOD, God protects the believer from further archon attack with a hedge.
YEP – FEEL GOOD CHRISTIANITY Romans 8:28 just turn it over to God and Robert’s says your wealth and happy life is guaranteed (yet – he has a job and a boss – more than one since I’ve known him)
The Apocryphon of James (James) … said to him, "Lord, we can obey you if you wish, for we have forsaken our fathers and our mothers and our villages, and followed you. Grant us, therefore, not to be tempted by the devil, the evil one." The Lord answered and said, "What is your merit if you do the will of the Father and it is not given to you from him as a gift while you are tempted by Satan? But if you are oppressed by Satan, and persecuted, and you do his (i.e., the Father's) will, I say that he will love you, and make you equal with me, and reckon you to have become beloved through his providence by your own choice. So will you not cease loving the flesh and being afraid of sufferings? Or do you not know that you have yet to be abused and to be accused unjustly; and have yet to be shut up in prison, and condemned unlawfully, and crucified <without> reason, and buried as I myself, by the evil one? Do you dare to spare the flesh, you for whom the Spirit is an encircling wall? If you consider how long the world existed <before> you, and how long it will exist after you, you will find that your life is one single day, and your sufferings one single hour. For the good will not enter into the world. Scorn death, therefore, and take thought for life! Remember my cross and my death, and you will live!"
Do you dare to spare the flesh, you for whom the Spirit is an encircling wall? This world is not our real home – we are just souljourners here
The Gospel of Thomas (82) Jesus said, "He who is near me is near the fire, and he who is far from me is far from the kingdom."
The Gospel of Philip If you say, "I am a Jew," no one will be moved. If you say, "I am a Roman," no one will be disturbed. If you say, "I am a Greek, a barbarian, a slave, a free man," no one will be troubled. If you say, "I am a Christian," the [...] will tremble. Would that I might [...] like that - the person whose name [...] will not be able to endure hearing. …
If one goes down into the water and comes up without having received anything, and says "I am a Christian," he has borrowed the name at interest. But if he receives the Holy Spirit, he has the name as a gift. He who has received a gift does not have to give it back, but of him who has borrowed it at interest, payment is demanded. This is the way it happens to one when he experiences a mystery.
when a believer accepts GOD, God protects the believer from further archon attack with a hedge.
This is why so many fall away from the church People come to church when they are in trouble and seeking help – seeking answers – they still get divorced – remain sick with cancer – grandma still dies – because biological life is hard and filled with pain – Gen 3:15 – the Great Contest
The Exegesis on the Soul It is therefore fitting to pray to the father and to call on him with all our soul - not externally with the lips, but with the spirit, which is inward, which came forth from the depth - sighing; repenting for the life we lived; confessing our sins; perceiving the empty deception we were in, and the empty zeal; weeping over how we were in darkness and in the wave; mourning for ourselves, that he might have pity on us; hating ourselves for how we are now.
Again the savior said (cf Mt 5:4, Lk 6:12): "Blessed are those who mourn, for it is they who will be pitied; blessed, those who are hungry, for it is they who will be filled." Again he said (cf. Lk 14:26), "If one does not hate his soul (life) he cannot follow me." For the beginning of salvation is repentance. Therefore (cf. Acts 13:24), "Before Christ`s appearance came John, preaching the baptism of repentance." And repentance takes place in distress and grief. But the father is good and loves humanity, and he hears the soul that calls upon him and sends it the light of salvation. Therefore he said through the spirit to the prophet (cf. 1 Cl 8:3), "Say to the children of my people, 'If your sins extend from earth to heaven, and if they become red like scarlet and blacker than sackcloth, and if you return to me with all your soul and say to me 'my Father!', I will heed you as a holy people.'"
when a believer accepts GOD, God protects the believer from further archon attack with a hedge.
How did that work out for God’s chosen people – peace and harmony all through history?
Is there such a thing as FEEL GOOD JUDAISM? To be a Jew is to be hated – persecuted – by all the 99% To be a Christian – the world will hate you
Joh 15:18 “If the world hates you, know that it has hated Me before you. Joh 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own. But you are not of the world, since I have chosen you out of the world; therefore the world hates you. Joh 15:20 “Remember the word I spoke to you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will persecute you also. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also. Joh 15:21 “But all these things they will do to you for the sake of My name, because they do not know the One who sent Me.
when a believer accepts GOD, God protects the believer from further archon attack with a hedge.
Robert wants to reject all this teaching because he calls these authors Gnostic Yet these are the men that walked and talked with Jesus Christ before and after his passion Did any of these men have a FEEL GOOD LIFE? All of them were martyred – speared – hung – and crucified
Robert teaches that he cannot sin – because he has been redeemed Now he teaches that God protects him from the world and satan and claims to be as wealthy as Job
This is just SDA Ellen White’s garbage religion – teaching ignorance 101 ------------------------------------------
My earlier post was the hedge is placed only when the human becomes a child of God.
God can bless anyone He desires
God can use anyone one he wants for any purpose Schindler’s list Some man that you never heard of making million – needing a government provided tax loop hole to – to fund a missionary group – to save one South American child
ROb" so you don't believe children of God receive a hedge and also are blessed? you are just mocking the idea?
No – every Christian does not become wealthy Every Christian is called to spiritual warfare But you deny it because there is no spirit -----------------------------------------
Dave" Cool – you proved it – Job has someone else to blame Very consistent with your need for satan Rob" NO Dave, I am trying to show you the Opposer is opposing God, by taking away God's functional role of saving humans from sin, especially from the false elohiym powers, that are agents for sin.
How is Job blaming his children proof that your satan satan REBELS, HATES, AND OPPOSES God?
Rob" NO Dave, I am trying to show you the Opposer is opposing God, by taking away God's functional role of saving humans from sin,
God is absolute – he can bless or pardon anyone he wants Who can oppose God – no one
2Ch 20:5 Then Jehoshaphat stood in the congregation of Judah and Jerusalem in the House of Adonai in front of the new courtyard 2Ch 20:6 and said: “Adonai, God of our fathers, are You not God in heaven? You rule over all the kingdoms of the nations. Power and might are in Your hand and no one can stand against You.
Job 23:13 He is unchangeable, and who can change Him? ...
Your anti-scriptural assumption is not proof Your anti-scriptural denominational tradition is error
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RobPP "Why should the Opposer be interested in Job because he is Saved and thus declared sinless?
Can you answer this question Dave? Dave" I have answered this question so many times - you just deny scripture God Tests His Chosen Ones Rob" You list many links but do not answer the question I gave you?
Dave" I have answered this question so many times - you just deny scripture All of my links are mainstream Christians discussing GOD TESTING HIS CHOSEN!
WHY DO YOU DENY SCRIPTURE? -----------------------------------
Dave" Sorry Robert – just like the serpent in the garden it is not a sin to be honest with the Lord ROb" I see, so you cannot see my viewpoint regardless how I try to explain it.
You want it to be evil – so you can blame satan
Correct – no Jew – Messianic Jew – or early Christian believed in your Catholic satan god Correct – before Rome – no one thought anything could fall from the Grace of God Correct – before Rome – the world was already filled with MANY types of archon – demons – devils – other gods – all from the Beast of Revelation Correct – before Rome - no one thought God was weak and in a struggle with a strong satan
YES – Job was a wealth man with much to loose Job 1:9 Then the satan responded to Adonai, saying, “Does Job fear God for nothing? Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? Job 1:9 And the Adversary answereth Jehovah and saith, 'For nought is Job fearing God?
Why is satan’s answer evil – a lie – an opposition? ------------------
I will take a rest, to research my next move, with more convincing verses with the Opposer for you.
Go seek your satan if you want too Deny as much scripture as you need, even deny the entire New Testament Gospel, to keep your Ellen White’s satanic teaching valid
The only scripture I have to deny - is your version of Ezk 28 and if I was God's translator Job 38:7 when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? would read Job 38:7 when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God cried an alarm
As for the rest of us we will seek the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls As for the rest of us we will seek the Lord in spirit, pray in the spirit, and listen to the spirit
Yes – take a rest and read yourself You do not believe this scripture You do not believe that scripture You do not believe belief is necessary – you just want to practice faith – but you admit you do not understand what that means
Yes – take a rest and read scripture
Yes – take a rest and learn the root of your own error
I will take a rest, to research my next move, with more convincing verses with the Opposer for you. No one here denies - the devils / satanas - the serpent race - all from the BEAST of Revelation Who just appeared in a plurality Rev 12:3 The archon / Principalities / Jinn / devils / satanas are our real struggle as Christians - Eph 6:12 They were created by God for God - Col 1:16 For nothing exist that was not created by God - John 1: / Rev 4:11
Why?
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Post by rob on Sept 1, 2023 16:59:01 GMT -5
Greetings Dave In the beginning, a holy perfect and sinless cherub (Eze 28:15) was a guardian angel that walked among the stones of fire, (Eze 28:14) protecting the laws of GOD from all eternity and living faithfully by them. When the cherub chose to live by the other option of free will, he sinned, missing the faithful commands of the stones of fire, and hence why GOD banished the cherub from the mountain of God and from the stones of fire. Eze 28:16 ...will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. The development of free will, causes a development of pride, selfishness and self exaltation. While sin is technically defined as transgressing the royal laws of the Father, the one who sins becomes an opposing force of faith, choosing instead to live without faith, and live under his own powers of self. Such a condition is an abomination in God's sight. All intelligent creatures experience a flow of love from the flow of faith, by communion with the words that express this flow. Ho 14:2 "Take with you words", is a child like manner the faithful powers flow, we simply take the takings as words, by speaking the takings to God . Therefore the immutable laws of faith are eternal and define the righteous living to those who abide in God's words. An opposer is one who opposes this faith in God, and refuses to live faithfully under God's power. Such an opposer wishes to live under self, which only exists because God allows the free will option to exist ONCE, so that it's nature may be see for the first and only time. This process is outlined in the following Psalm:- Even each letter outlines the poem as a structure. Jesus said not even a letter would vanish from the laws of God (Mt 5:18). Ps 119:1 Strong- ALEPH. Blessed are {they}, who walk in the law of the LORD. The law is an expression of God's idea. When we receive it in Christ, it becomes our idea. It lifts us above the power of natural desires and tendencies, above temptations that lead to sin. “Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them” (Psalm 119:165). God is strong because His Law is immutable and eternal and cannot change. (Mal 3:6 ) Ps 119:9 Home- BETH. Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word. There is no peace in unrighteousness; the wicked are at war with God. But he who receives the righteousness of the law in Christ is in harmony with heaven's home. Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. Our home and our abide is with God, not with self. Thus any Opposer opposes this idea of living with God and within God. Such an opposer chooses to live outside of God and remain living in a "world", which God created as a temporary place, which is spoiled by the Opposer, in the hope such a "world" will exist forever, but alas is a deception to humans. As humans we are live in God's home and God's holy temple (1Co 3:16), as our biological bodies God created for us, is the home where GOD choses to live and dwell among us. Such a place is also a pattern for the heavenly home and heavenly abide of GOD. Ps 119:17 Walk- GIMEL. ....I may live, and keep thy word. The law of the ten commandments lives and will live through the eternal ages.... There is no such thing as free will to choose SELF in heaven. This option causes Self, to live without walking and breathing God's power. Such a thing, no living thing can do. Ye can only walk and live for eternity if ye are always abiding in the laws of faith, that express continual love. Hence missing implies breaking faith, and this is the only option of free will. Ro 14:...whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Therefore in heaven free will ceases to exist. Our minds are always fixed on the immutable faithful laws of love and living under God's flow of power from taking these words. Ps 119:25 Door- DALETH. ...quicken thou me according to thy word. While Jesus is pleading for the subjects of His grace, Satan accuses them before God as transgressors.... The Opposer seems to function as a prosecutor of humans. However, the Opposer is really about the destruction of the laws of God, making them appear faulty. One such example of an attack upon God, occurred when the Opposer was questioned over Job sealed by God's perfection: Job 1:9 ...Doth Job fear God for nought? Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him? The Opposer questioned if Job would continue to remain faithful, if the wealthy aspect of Job's blessings were removed. But the hedge is more than just our spiritual or physical blessings. The hedge of protection limits the Opposers attack upon the one seeking God, so that we are able to withstand such tribulations in this great Controversy. We must have the faithful stance that Job had. Only by walking faithfully in the moral laws of faith, can we live forever under God. Ps 119:33 Divine Being- HEY. Teach me, O LORD, Satan also and evil angels are judged by Christ and His people. Says Paul, “Know ye not that we shall judge angels?” 1 Corinthians 6:3.8 There is a thousand years for the saved humans to investigate all the wicked humans, and wicked angels that chose to live by self, rather than live by faith in the moral laws of love. One cannot judge unless there are immutable laws to compare behaviour with. However one cannot judge unless the conditions of living by faith is also immutable and eternal and never changed even in a sinless world. So one investigates how each creature lived under faith. Did they always live "taking the words" of God, and thus live under the words of God? To do this, one has to have eternal immutable laws of faith, in a supreme being, who is the source of all living and the source of all power, and this also is subject to His own laws of faith. Ps 119:41 Secured- VAU. ...thy salvation, according to thy word. When the Judge of all the earth shall demand of Satan, “Why hast thou rebelled against Me, and robbed Me of the subjects of My kingdom?” the originator of evil can render no excuse. Every mouth will be stopped, and all the hosts of rebellion will be speechless. The Father will ask the Opposer, why have you robbed Me of my subjects of My Kingdom? And all the hosts of heaven are speechless, every living human and angel stand before God's throne to hear this question. (Re 20:11-12) Ps 119:49 Plough- ZAYIN. Remember ... me to hope. A union with Christ by living faith is enduring; every other union must perish.... But this union costs us something.... There must be a painful work of detachment, as well as a work of attachment. Pride, selfishness, vanity, worldliness—sin in all its forms—must be overcome, if we would enter into a union with Christ. The reason why many find the Christian life so deplorably hard, why they are so fickle, so variable, is, they try to attach themselves to Christ without detaching themselves from these cherished idols. The plough does not plough all day to sow. (Isa 28:24) Ploughing is hard work and costly work, but soon the "soul's earth" is ready to receive joyfully the "faith seeds" of Jesus, and to abide in His love, as Jesus did. Ps 119:57 Walled- CHETH. ...I would keep thy words. Calmly, yet fervently, the soul is to reach out after God; and sweet and abiding will be the influence emanating from Him who sees in secret, whose ear is open to the prayer arising from the heart. He who in simple faith holds communion with God will gather to himself divine rays of light to strengthen and sustain him in the conflict with Satan. We are housed and walled or HEDGED when we seek GOD. He places our soul in a secret place and lifts us upon the flint rock of the Father, safely secure from enemy attack. Jer 25:38 "He hath forsaken his covert," God will remove His HEDGE from you if you rebel and oppose His faithful laws of love. The Opposer wishes to get GOD to remove this hedge so the enemy can attack you more, causing you to break faith with God. Ps 119:65 Basket- TETH. ... I have believed thy commandments. Therefore the question with us is not, “What is the world's practice?” but, “How shall I as an individual treat the habitation that God has given me? The body is a basket for the spirit we are to develop in God, that is ours to keep and live in throughout eternity. Through faith we say the commandments so that love may flow. Ps 119:73 Hand- YUD. ...I may learn thy commandments. From the first, the great controversy had been upon the law of God. The hands of man and the hand of God work together, not to conflict each other. Ex 14:22 ..the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left. Ex 15:6 Thy right hand, O LORD, is become glorious in power: Ps 16:8 GOD is at my right hand, I shall not be moved. Ps 119:81 Palms- KAPH. My soul fainteth for thy salvation: {Ps 119:86} All thy commandments are faithful: Satan had sought to prove that God was unjust, that His law was faulty, and that the good of the universe required it to be changed. In attacking the law, he aimed to overthrow the authority of GOD. Such changes included the creation of the MEDIUM to facilitate the living apart from GOD, and the creation of natural laws such as Entropy and Chaos, so a world of SIN could exist apart from GOD. Ps 119:89 Authority- LAMED. For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Satan is the great originator of sin; yet this does not excuse any man for sinning; for he cannot force men to do evil. He tempts them to it, and makes sin look enticing and pleasant; but he has to leave it to their own wills whether they will do it or not.... Man is a free moral agent to accept or refuse. This verse exclaims the immutable and eternal nature of the laws of faith, that have existed from all eternity. Ps 119:97 Flow- MEM. O how love I thy law! Adam taught his descendants the law of God, and it was handed down from father to son through successive generations. But ... there were few who accepted it and rendered obedience. By transgression the world became so vile that it was necessary to cleanse it by the Flood from its corruption. The law was preserved by Noah and his family, and Noah taught his descendants the Ten Commandments. As men again departed from God, the Lord chose Abraham, of whom He declared, “Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.” Genesis 26:5. Gen 26:5 proves the royal laws of the Father was passed down from Adam to Abram orally in it's principles of faith. Ps 119:105 Nations- NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Faithful words are light unto all living. Ps 119:113 Protecting- SAMECH. I hate vain thoughts: but thy law do I love. 114 Thou art my hiding place and my shield: I hope in thy word Ps 119:121 Seeing- AYIN. I have done judgment.. Ps 119:129 Speaking- PEH. Thy testimonies are wonderful: Ps 119:133 Order my steps in thy word: There are steps in the laws of living and processes in which to follow to obtain eternal living in God. Ps 119:137 Travelling- TZADDI. ... upright are thy judgments. Ps 119:145 Unknown- QUPH. I cried with my whole heart; hear me, Ps 119:150 They draw nigh that follow after mischief: they are far from thy law. Ps 119:151 ...all thy commandments are truth. This verse says the same thing twice, in case one fails to understand. Ps 119:153 Head- RESH. Consider mine affliction, Ps 119:161 Pressing- SHIN. Princes have persecuted me without a cause: Princes have opposed the law of GOD and thus accuse others who try to live under the faithful laws of living. This is why Jesus came to this world in personal human form, to destroy the claims of the Opposer, that one cannot live in a faithless world without breaking faith. Jesus did this to prove that living by faith is possible in a sinful world as it is possible in a sinless world. Ps 119:169 Towards an important mark- TAU. ..give me understanding according to thy word. Now the end of the matter is this letter TAU, the cross, the important mark. Here the two saraph creatures were both placed upon the TAU and the humans were given a choice. Choose you this day whom ye will serve. (Jos 24:15) If this saraph elohiym power be God, than let him be God, but if GOD be the true elohiym power, than let Him be GOD, the God who answers by fire (saraph) let Him be GOD. (1Ki 18:24) Also ( Joh 3:14 ) Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Now to answer your questions Dave Dave" Absolutely not! As Christians we are called to spiritual warfare – the battle is on – between man and world – man and man – man and archon. What does the Bible say about spiritual warfare? You have to deny too much scripture to deny the spiritROb" How many verses speak of GOD as our shield, protector and wall from danger? Too many to mention. But there is this solemn prophecy:- Da 12:1 ¶ And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, When Jesus stands up to end His work of saving people, than shall the world be plunged into a trouble time the world has never seen before, worse than the dark ages. Ye shall have tribulation while living in your hedge under GOD. JOB is a good example, the Opposer asked GOD to remove His hedge, yet JOB remained sinless and living under God still. Isa 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper;Be of good cheer Jesus said, I have overcome the world. Dave" This world is not our real home – we are just souljourners hereROb" True Dave" God can bless anyone He desiresRob" I see, so you oppose everything I write to you about totally? Dave" No – every Christian does not become wealthyROb" Money? I didnt say that. Dave" Every Christian is called to spiritual warfareROb" Hence the reason why we need God's hedge, shield and protection Dave" God is absolute – he can bless or pardon anyone he wants Who can oppose God – no oneRob" When you choose the free will to exercise it, you become an opposer, living under self, and by definition you oppose God. If you have creature created without free will, than regardless of their doings such creatures cannot break faith because they cannot choose, hence your archons cannot oppose God because you have removed their ability to have free will to choose. Dave" 2Ch 20:6 ....no one can stand against You. Job 23:13 He is unchangeable, and who can change Him? ... Dave states" Your anti-scriptural assumption is not proof Your anti-scriptural denominational tradition is errorROb" I love your verses that confirm my own theories of faith. God's laws are immutable. No one can change GOD. hence this ONE time event is about opposers who live by breaking faith with God's immutable laws. Dave" All of my links are mainstream Christians discussing GOD TESTING HIS CHOSEN!
WHY DO YOU DENY SCRIPTURE?ROb" In faulty world, one must be tested to see how strong is your faith. But in a perfect world such testing is not necessary. Free will is not required any more. Dave" so you can blame satanROb" You cannot blame the Opposer when you are also an Opposer. If you live by faith you are no longer an opposer of God. Each lives by their actions. Dave" YES – Job was a wealthy man with much to looseRob" Maybe he was wealthy, but the hedge is not only about money or blessings. Job was able to live by faith, not break faith, even if all this world was removed from him. JOb is an example of us living in the end of time, when all things are removed from us too, very soon. Dave" Why is satan’s answer evil – a lie – an opposition?Rob" A good question. Does JOB fear GOD for nothing? The opposer is questioning the functional role of love . Love comes in two main functions, a provider provides and the responder responds. The Opposer is asking GOD to remove His providing, and thus the responder will break faith. This kind of question or challenge, cuts into the very fabric of God's love system.Can a human live all alone without GOD and God feeding the human via faith? Is such a challenge opposing GOD? yes and no. God knows all things of the humans who live by faith in Him. And God knows who love God, love God freely, without seeking rewards or blessings. Love seeks no reward or even a response. God allowed Job to show this to the Opposer. Shalom my friend
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Post by Dave on Sept 2, 2023 3:15:03 GMT -5
In the beginning, a holy perfect and sinless cherub (Eze 28:15) was a guardian angel that walked among the stones of fire, YES - this is Catholic Catechism 101 No one ever considered this until Rome invented it Jesus did not believe it – His disciples did not believe it – the followers of Jesus did not believe it – no early Christian had this doctrineWhen the cherub chose to live by the other option of free will, he sinned, Yep more Catholic garbage – angels do not have Free Will – they were created to serve and praise
Eze 28:16 ...will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. YES – this is the result of sin – you are cast out of heaven to a place of proportional punishment
Ho 14:2 "Take with you words", is a child like manner the faithful powers flow, we simply take the takings as words, by speaking the takings to God . How does this prove your satan rebels, hates, and opposes God?------------------------------------ Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. How does this prove your satan rebels, hates, and opposes God? Our home and our abide is with God, not with self. Thus any Opposer opposes this idea of living with God and within God. Such an opposer chooses to live outside of God and remain living in a "world", which God created as a temporary place, which is spoiled by the Opposer, There you go denying Romans 1:19-20 Answer the question - does Rom 1:19 prove God as creator or you satan?As humans we are live in God's home and God's holy temple (1Co 3:16), as our biological bodies God created for us, is the home where GOD choses to live and dwell among us. Ps 119:17 Walk- GIMEL. ....I may live, and keep thy word. Correct – our biological bodies were made for us to dwell within – the inner man Correct – God desires to commune with us – spirit to Spirit You reject the idea – call the Baptism of the Holy Spirit a satanic belief-------------------------------- The law of the ten commandments lives and will live through the eternal ages.... Once they were given - correctThere is no such thing as free will to choose SELF in heaven. Because there is no flesh in heaven – no biology in heaven – therefore no (yester ra) in heaven 1Co 15:50 Now I say this, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and what decays cannot inherit what does not decay. ------------------------------------- Ro 14:...whatsoever is not of faith is sin. How does this prove your satan rebels, hates, and opposes God?Ps 119:25 Door- DALETH. ...quicken thou me according to thy word. How does this prove your satan rebels, hates, and opposes God? While Jesus is pleading for the subjects of His grace, Satan accuses them before God as transgressors.… YEP – the Beast opposes man / accuses man – day and night – Rev 12:10The Opposer seems to function as a prosecutor of humans. However, the Opposer is really about the destruction of the laws of God, making them appear faulty. - to man YEP – the Beast opposes man / accuses man – day and night – Rev 12:10Ps 119:33 Divine Being- HEY. Teach me, O LORD, How does this prove your satan rebels, hates, and opposes God?Satan also and evil angels are judged by Christ and His people. Says Paul, “Know ye not that we shall judge angels?” 1 Corinthians 6:3.8 YES – I was going to bring this up the other day How would true Christ like Christians judge Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.One cannot judge unless there are immutable laws to compare behaviour with. All God has is Grace – all Jesus had was Grace – unrequited love for mankind = Compassion Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.However one cannot judge unless the conditions of living by faith is also immutable and eternal and never changed even in a sinless world. All God has is Grace – all Jesus had was Grace – unrequited love for mankind = Compassion Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.So one investigates how each creature lived under faith. Did they always live "taking the words" of God, and thus live under the words of God? All God has is Grace – all Jesus had was Grace – unrequited love for mankind = Compassion Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.To do this, one has to have eternal immutable laws of faith, in a supreme being, who is the source of all living and the source of all power, and this also is subject to His own laws of faith. All God has is Grace – all Jesus had was Grace – unrequited love for mankind = Compassion Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.Ps 119:41 Secured- VAU. ...thy salvation, according to thy word. When the Judge of all the earth shall demand of Satan, “Why hast thou rebelled against Me, and robbed Me of the subjects of My kingdom?” the originator of evil can render no excuse. Every mouth will be stopped, and all the hosts of rebellion will be speechless.Quote me the verse – your denominational traditions ans assumption mean nothingThe Father will ask the Opposer, why have you robbed Me of my subjects of My Kingdom?Quote me the verse – your denominational traditions ans assumption mean nothingAnd all the hosts of heaven are speechless, every living human and angel stand before God's throne to hear this question. (Re 20:11-12)Sorry Robert – your quoted scripture does not support you claimRev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Ps 119:49 Plough- ZAYIN. Remember ... me to hope. A union with Christ by living faith is enduring; every other union must perish.... How does this prove your satan rebels, hates, and opposes God?The reason why many find the Christian life so deplorably hard, why they are so fickle, so variable, is, they try to attach themselves to Christ without detaching themselves from these cherished idols. How does this prove your satan rebels, hates, and opposes God?Satan had sought to prove that God was unjust, that His law was faulty, and that the good of the universe required it to be changed. In attacking the law, he aimed to overthrow the authority of GOD. YEP – the Beast opposes man / accuses man – day and night – Rev 12:10 How does this prove your satan rebels, hates, and opposes God?Satan is the great originator of sin; How did sin enter the world?Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Why do you deny scripture?Ps 119:161 Pressing- SHIN. Princes have persecuted me without a cause: Princes have opposed the law of GOD and thus accuse others who try to live under the faithful laws of living. Psa 119:161 SCHIN. Princes have persecuted me without a cause: but my heart standeth in awe of thy word. Correct – man opposes David How does this prove your satan rebels, hates, and opposes God?This is why Jesus CHRIST came to this world in personal human form, to destroy the claims of the Opposer, that one cannot live in a faithless world without breaking faith. Jesus did this to prove that living by faith is possible in a sinful world as it is possible in a sinless world. How does this prove your satan rebels, hates, and opposes God?-------------------------------------------------------------------- Now to answer your questions Dave Dave" Absolutely not! As Christians we are called to spiritual warfare – the battle is on – between man and world – man and man – man and archon. What does the Bible say about spiritual warfare? You have to deny too much scripture to deny the spirit ROb" How many verses speak of GOD as our shield, protector and wall from danger? Too many to mention. But there is this solemn prophecy:- You are correct – but to teach that we are safe from harm – safe from being tested – safe / protected from the world is not a Jewish teach nor a Christian teaching
Dave" This world is not our real home – we are just souljourners here ROb" True What contradictory crap you post You absolutely reject the concept of souljourn – man has no spiritual You teach man is nothing more than dust from the ground – only animal biology Dave" God can bless anyone He desiresRob" I see, so you oppose everything I write to you about totally? If you say God cannot bless anyone he wants – then I oppose your teachingDave" Every Christian is called to spiritual warfare ROb" Hence the reason why we need God's hedge, shield and protection You absolutely deny the spirit What spiritual warfare are you engaged in? The controversy is between your satan and God over God right to rule the universe
Dave" God is absolute – he can bless or pardon anyone he wants Who can oppose God – no one Rob" When you choose the free will to exercise it, you become an opposer, living under self, and by definition you oppose God. So you have the authority to rewrite scripture?Dave" 2Ch 20:6 ....no one can stand against You. Job 23:13 He is unchangeable, and who can change Him? . Or do you just deny scripture?OH – I know scripture does not mean what it says – you have to understand the allagory and scripture means something elseIf you have creature created without free will, than regardless of their doings such creatures cannot break faith because they cannot choose, hence your archons cannot oppose God because you have removed their ability to have free will to choose. I agree – the Beast of Revelation opposes / accuses man – NOT GOD!Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Dave states" Your anti-scriptural assumption is not proof Your anti-scriptural denominational tradition is error ROb" I love your verses that confirm my own theories of faith. God's laws are immutable. How does this prove your satan rebels, hates, and opposes God?Dave" All of my links are mainstream Christians discussing GOD TESTING HIS CHOSEN! WHY DO YOU DENY SCRIPTURE? ROb" In faulty world, one must be tested to see how strong is your faith. But in a perfect world such testing is not necessary. Free will is not required any more. How does this prove your satan rebels, hates, and opposes God?Dave" Why is satan’s answer evil – a lie – an opposition? Rob" A good question. Does JOB fear GOD for nothing? The opposer is questioning the functional role of love . Love comes in two main functions, a provider provides and the responder responds. The Opposer is asking GOD to remove His providing, and thus the responder will break faith. This kind of question or challenge, cuts into the very fabric of God's love system. This statement is the truth of mankind The only difference was that Job was not threatened with deathYou are in a burning airplane crash – do you stand in the flame and give you own life to same others? - Be honestCan a human live all alone without GOD and God feeding the human via faith? What does this religious gobbelty gook even mean?How does this prove your satan rebels, hates, and opposes God?Why don’t you just go through each verse about satan and show us how he rebels, hates, and opposes God. You won’t – because you know you can’t precept upon precept, line upon line scripture does not support your Catholic false god of evil
So the opponent is only an opponent to Job, in Job's story? Fair enough So where would you go looking to see if "opponent" actually "opposes" GOD? Line upon line, here and there, remember, how to read Scripture? This thread was started to explore who does satan oppose / accuseI have dealt with my 49 verses I have answered your 23 verses Why do you refuse to go through each line and explain to me how each line represents a satan that is anti-God or opposes God – or even disobeys God You don’t because you Can’t – because satan is not God’s opponent in a war Satan is God’s obedient servant helping God facilitate God’s plan Please prove to me that satan is God’s opponet – here are the versesAnd your answer isAll your "hoo har" over 49 verses verses 23, doesn't matter, I need only one verse, apart from Ezek, I have Rev 12. There was war in heaven? Robert – you are the one that brought Isa 28:10 to this forum At least we have discovered the value of precept uon precept, line upon line – it doesn’t matter if it goes against your precious Catholic satan doctrineHere we are four years later – and having the exact same argument
One of us failed to learn or understand the beliefs of Jesus – His disciples – His followers – and all early Christians
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Post by rob on Sept 2, 2023 6:29:38 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
I see your very good and being blind to my presentation. You copy and pasted quotes over and over without reading what was presented. You also bring up past quotes to mock my discussion, but you do not have any discussion with my discussion. We do not debate, it's purely one sided. All Dave's way.
One thing I would ask from reading your replies
1) Why do the archons oppose mankind anyway?
2) Do they have intelligence to be crafty and clever to tempt mankind to sin?
3) Why do such natural creatures do this anyway? Were they designed to be arum on purpose? What do these natural creatures get out of this sort of agency of RA and Entropy thing?
Some creator God you serve, creating creatures to destroy man's free will to love God with all of his heart. Now God says to Himself, I must test this free will and so intentionally creates a flawed world with arum creatures to make mankind love the world and it's temporary idols, all for what? Just to develop free will, with what, a knowledge of sin?
Why not just create mankind like God the created angels, to serve and praise.
Answer why you have such a terrible world to begin with and for what? Oh your Gnostic writings only say for the Father's glory. What bunk !
I love my God because His love makes sense, and my love is not tested, nor does love require testing if the love is genuine. My faith needs testing because I have not developed supreme faith, like Jesus had on earth. A fruit tree makes its best fruit under periods of tribulation.
You say GOD is only grace. Not so. God is also just. He judges you by your works of faith, and how you used the powers of GOD that God provided to you. The Scripture records only a few are saved, so small a tiny child could write the number down.
Your whole theory of having no opposer of God, makes no sense. You have no Great Controversy over sinning creatures with free will, only man sinned. That's funny, I read in Ezekiel that a cherub sinned. Oh this is supposed to be a Catholic reading of Scripture. I never knew that. I read Scripture very well by myself with the HS as my tutor. You follow trinity, and that is a Catholic invention, but you accept this as a fact with your three expressions idea of the Father.
If GOD notices the tiny sparrow falling to the ground, GOD is angry over what caused the sparrow's death. Such a cause is God's opposer.
I do not get you, if the archons oppose man, than the archons are also opposing God. How can I say this? because all creatures were made for God's glory and thus should live in peace. In the end, the lion lives in peace with the lamb, and the archons should live in peace with man too. But they don't, they were designed to be man's enemy, tempter and agent of RA. Well what kind of God do you worship? You say the sharks were meat eating all along, so you want your archons to fit into your world of natural danger and natural decomposition and decay. That is your view of GOD, but not mine.
Shalom
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Post by rob on Sept 2, 2023 15:41:03 GMT -5
John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Rob" This verse above all others proves that the Opposer is opposing the Father, because Jesus gives the Opposer the same Hebrew name as the Father "ab" meaning a "provider"
What is a provider? A being that is an agent whjo provides humans with things, like decisions, temptions and other ways to do RA. The use of this word "ab" is very significant. It means the chief opposer was wanting to be like the Most High and be a heavenly father like the heavenly Father is. My second point is the term "ratsach" meaning "no wounding". The Opposer main opposition to GOD is the opposer wounds the chances of humans seeking salvation. Dave agrees with me that the opposer opposes mankind, and this is my point. This proves the Opposes is wounding the human, by robbing him of his ability to seek salvation. This is a direct violation of GOD who wishes to save humans from sin. Thus the devil offers false milky words to humans so the humans fake their own salvation on human terms, but NOT on God's terms. This is why the devil is the Hebrew word "shad" meaning "teat or breast". The opposer offers man to drink false milk, or false teachings. And this wounding is direct proof the Opposer is opposing GOD. John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out. Jesus came to destroy the Opposer and his opposing of GOD's principles of faithful living. God cast out the Opposer and his angels once before FROM heaven to EARTH. SO your claim that the beast was designed intentionally as an agent of RA is bogus. The beast became that way from a war in heaven. God did not also create billions of other messengers (angels) also as agents of RA along with the chief Opposer. And ALL hundreds of billions of them were cast into the earth. What could have caused this war and so many angels changing their natures of character? SIN
But Dave does not like creatures changing their roles, nor do you have angels with free will.
Hence you cannot debate with me, because your creatures cannot think like humans, thus they also cannot sin like humans. Well that's funny, because I find the devil sins like humans sin in 1 John 3: 8, but again Dave avoids the reading of the verse. You deny Scripture as it reads plainly.
Matthew 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Why are the opposers facing eternal fire, if they were intentionally designed as agents of RA? Obviously these intelligent creatures are awaiting judgement for their sinning.
Revelation 20:2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,
Why is the dragon bound for a thousand years, all alone, with all humans dead because of the brightnesss of Jesus Second Coming? The Opposer has nobody to make sin, and all the sinning angels are left to contemplate their own impending doom. Such a verse proves to me the Opposer is opposing God.
What happens in this Sabbath rest of 1000 years? The humans who are saved judge all the sinning creatures, both humans and angels that sinned.
Hebrews 2:14 Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,
The Opposer has the power of death? God is the author of living. The Opposer the author of death. This verse shows the Opposer is directly opposite to God, in terms of function and character. What causes this nature? Created that way? What? Would GOD design an agent of RA? Come on Dave.
SIN is the only explanation for something that opposes GOD directly. Thus the Opposer is opposing God because the opposer sins. At least two verses says this idea, but Dave claims it's a Catholic invention. So is the idea of trinity. And Sunday worship Sabbath. Just because a nation swallows Israel for some years does not make their influence entirely from that nation. COnsider Babylon. It swallowed Israel. But God saved the king of Babylon. And you cannot stand the theories that came from Babylonian times.
Than the Persians swallowed Israel, and you cannot stand the theories from Persian times. Can't God wrestle truth from pagan nations too, to show up Israel who wander off the track time and time again?
No they can't says Dave, only the Jews know the truth from the very beginning. If that were truth why did God punish them over and over with nations invading them? 2 Corinthians 11:3 But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
Wow, so glad Paul agrees the serpent was sinning to help make Eve also sin. Paul writes the opposer is able to get humans away from Jesus, shows to me that the Opposer is Opposing God directly.
Acts 13:10 And said, “You son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, full of all deceit and villainy, will you not stop making crooked the straight paths of the Lord?
Wow that is pretty plain to me too. The Opposer makes crooked paths. God makes a straight path. Both are opposites because both oppose each other.
John 14:30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no claim on me,
Why would the Opposer want to make a claim on Jesus, who is God? Can God sin? Well Dave seems to think so because God commands Israel to kill humans in an act of war over territory.
But here the Opposer cannot find a single sin inside Jesus. And this Opposer is called a prince and a ruler. Jesus is given by the Ancient of Days in Daniel also the right to be prince and a ruler of earth.
This is why Jesus came to over throw the other ruler and claim earth as His own, as king.
But Dave doesn't like a second member of elohiym as also with divine power. That would make elohiym with two gods? One cannot use the term "god" here, because elohiym is the term "god" already, so what English word do we have? We don't have one. For example the heart is one organ made of individual cells that work as one machine, not as billions of cells working as one. The cell by itself is not a heart. Only when united are all the members able to function as a working heart.
In English the term "god" refers to the Hebrew terms "ab", "el", "eloah", "shadday" and "elohiym".
But the Hebrew has all these other terms, and they must meaning something else.
In Ephesians Paul describes elohiym as a family and this picture solves all the problems for anyone wanting to understand elohiym. But Dave does not like this idea. Genesis says the two become one flesh. How is this possible? Same as the heart, the billions of cells become one functioning organ. The cells lose their individual powers and become a single corporate power. Scripture abounds with Father and Son poetry pictures, but Dave does not like this idea and avoids poetry pictures. Revelation 2:10 Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Wow, the Opposer throwns humans into prison. Which ones are these? The ones God has saved with his hedge? Yes, the protection affords God is in control but the saint is comforted by the presence of God in this affliction. We are witnesses to the cruel nature of the Opposer.
1 John 5:19 We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.
The evil one is a ruler of earth and has a kingdom that only tolaterates sinning,, not any human who seeks God for his powers of living. Such a human is attacked more fiercely by the Opposer, because the Opposer hates God's way of living and hates anybody that practices this kind of living.
1 Peter 5:8-9 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced by your brotherhood throughout the world.
The Opposer prowls like a lion seeking to kill humans. Rev 2:10 says the Opposer threw humans into prison to kill them. The dark ages is about the blood of saints as seed. 2 Timothy 2:26 And they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.
Humans are snared to do the will of the Opposer.
1 Timothy 5:15 For some have already strayed after Satan.
Humans seek the Opposer because the Opposer helps make humans sin. Dave agrees the Opposer opposes man.
But Jesus came to destroy the work of the Opposer.
That logic suggests to me than, that Jesus hates SIN,, what the Opposer is doing to humans, getting humans to SIN.
1 Thessalonians 2:18 Because we wanted to come to you—I, Paul, again and again—but Satan hindered us.
The rare use of the Hebrew word, the Opposer opposed Paul. Does God want Paul to be a missionary to the world? Does the Opposer want the world to understand the gospel?
I see clearly here, both elohiym powers are opposing each other.
Ephesians 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.
This verse says we are not fighting over humans wth flesh and blood, but other creatures who are not of flesh and blood, but are rulers of darkness, and thus oppose humans.
Do these rulers of darkness also oppose God? They must otherwise why did GOD war with them, kicking them out of heaven
war with them, destroying their princely right on earth (Jesus dies to claim to rule) war with them again one last time, throwing them into the Lake of fire. ----------------------------
The latter torah is full of verses where the Opposer opposes man, and thus is seen directly opposing God.
Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’
Here two elohiym powers stand directl opposing each other, as light opposes darkness.
As self opposes faith.
As Sin opposes "empowered by God"
The verse says the "power of the Opposer" and the power of God, are opposing each other.
Luke 10:19 Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you.
Sounds like GOD telling humans to oppose the Opposer to me.
Luke 9:42 While he was coming, the demon threw him to the ground and convulsed him. But Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit and healed the boy, and gave him back to his father.
Question: Does GOD normally have unclean spirits in a sinless world? Yes / No?
In the next world the opposer is gone, in the Lake of Fire, so the answer is no. Why than is there an unclean spirit? And why does this spirit possess humans?
Luke 4: And Jesus answered him, “It is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.’”
SO why are humans serving other gods? Why are humans serving self?
Where does this unclean spirit come from within the human?
Matthew 4:3 And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.”
Human power cannot do such a thing. So Jesus was not asked as a human to do this miracle, but as GOD. Only God can turn stones into bread. This is proof the Opposer was tempting God to make bread from stone.
1 Kings 22:22 And the Lord said to him, ‘By what means?’ And he said, ‘I will go out, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And he said, ‘You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.’
So this unclean spirit that goes out from God into the king, a human who wishes to sin, seems to have God's approval. The human king wanted to sin and do RA, not seek GOD and do right. So GOD respects your will to choose which elohiym power you will serve. So allows the unclean spirit to enter the king. This does not mean the unclean spirit is a servant of God, but that both elohiym powers are in a contest and thus fairly fight in this contest. There has to be other elohiym power, because the royal torah says so" have no other elohiym powers before my face" Exodus 20:1
Genesis 3:5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
Question: How is knowing both good and evil, helpful to Adam and Eve? Answer" It's not helpful. They lost the HS covering, they lost communion with GOD, they lost their home, lost their tree of life eating forever, they began to die, they became fearful, they lost all manner of things that very day, for what? What good comes from sinning? How does sinning help the human seek God? It doesn't. Sinning is actually opposing GOD in every way.
Genesis 3:4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die.
Jeff Benner explains from the Hebrew, that the Opposer said to Eve, you will not die immediately when you eat the fruit of the tree. If this is the words spoken, than its a lie. Eve did immediately die that very hour from eating of the fruit of the tree. Lots of things began to die and die immediately. Relationship to God broken, immediate death.
Question" define death as a event or a process? or both?
Death is defined as the separating of God's power from your living.
Hence death is both an event and a process. God is gracious and thus the process of death is gradual at all times, not nanosecond immediate.
Did the Opposer surmise this kind of death? Well the Opposer had not died as a result of his own sinning before God? so death cannot be real according to the Opposer? But He was wrong.
Consider the royal commandments written in a positive manner
Mt 5:3 ¶ Blessed are the "humble" in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Are the opposers humble before humans? No, they seek to destroy humans.
Mt 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Do the opposers mourn what they have lost when they sinned? No, they enjoy sinning and do as they please, SELF is a power that seeks nothing but itself. Self is it's own god. Mt 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Do the Opposer intently seek GOD as a power to live under? No, the opposer is like an unclean spiriit, they seek their own pleasures, not the pleasures of God, who is peaceful loving and kind.
The opposer is nothing like this.
Mt 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness:
Does the opposer seek righteousness? No they seek selfish living in the world
Mt 5:7 Blessed are the merciful:
Does the opposer show mercy? No, they throw humans into prison scripture says.
Mt 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Does the opposer have a pure heart, seeking God? No
the Opposer is a murderer, and a liar. Jesus said so.
Mt 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers:
Do the opposers allow humans to live at peace? No
The opposers live on war and make money from war and choas, not peace.
Mt 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Does the Opposer oppose man as God's servant? No the opposer oppose God falsely, they establish things that oppose God 1) a false torah 2) a false church 3) a false father on earth who forgives sins 4) false signs of power from the "spirit"
Mt 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Does the Opposer do good works of faith in this world? No
Would GOD create creatures of RA and entropy on purpose ? NO
God would only create creatures that live in peace and harmony.
Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
SO how come the lion eats sheep and the snake bite kills humans, and many creatures destroy my holy mountain today on earth? Can't be from GOD, but some other elohiym power. Dave does not consider this idea.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 2, 2023 16:06:13 GMT -5
I see your very good and being blind to my presentation. Jesus was a Jew – His disciples were Jewish – His followers were Jewish – all of the First Christians at the temple during Pentecost were Jewish. Jesus said He did not come to change the Torah teaching in any wayJesus called satanas - BeelzebubBeelzebub was an other god of the Levant (actually the Gaza Strip) – Jesus called him the leader of all the other gods. G954 – Βεελζεβούλ – Beelzeboul - Of Chaldee origin (by parody upon [H1176]); dung god; Beelzebul, a name of Satan: - H1176 - בַּעַל זְבוּב - ba‛al zebûb - From H1168 and H2070; Baal of (the) Fly; Baal Zebub, a special deity of the Ekronites: - Baal-zebub. The teaching of Jesus has nothing to do with Hebrew satan and everything to do with the Beast of Revelation and his army of archon----------------------------------------------------- You copy and pasted quotes over and over without reading what was presented. I read every word – more than onceWe were at the State Fair yesterday and night As my children played – I had much time to read and considered all your words Your goal here is to prove your satan rebels, hates, and opposes God – it is the premis of your denominational tradition – the Great Controversy – a cosmic struggle between your satan and God over God’s right to rule the universe.I keep looking for your answer How does this prove your satan rebels, hates, or opposes GodYou also bring up past quotes to mock my discussion, Do you mean what you say – or not? Are you embarrassed by your own views?but you do not have any discussion with my discussion. We do not debate, it's purely one sided. All Dave's way. Your first requirement is for me to deny scripture – and I will NOT Your only argument here is Catholic Ezk 28 – no Jew – none of the first Messianic Jews – (Jesus and His disciples) agree with youOne thing I would ask from reading your replies 1) Why do the archons oppose mankind anyway? It is their purpose Gen 3:15 I will put animosity between you and the woman—between your (The Serpent – the Beast of Revelation) seed and her seed. This Contest was/is established by GOD 1a) The 1st Law of Nature (Thermodynamics) Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created (bara – enlarged / fattened) the heavens and the earth. E cannot be created or destroyed – only transmuted (into matter – the image of God = Christ) or translated (across a distance – God at a distance = the Holt Spirit)2nd Law of Nature – the Beast adds – Entropy Gen 1:2 Now the earth was chaos and waste, darkness was on the surface of the deep, Entropy is necessary for nature / physics /chemistry / biology to function – without the exchange of energy from one level to the next – all creation STOPS – is at a STANDSTILL Because entropy exist within matter – this physical reality is moving toward and end – will pass away – is only temporary VALIDATING SCRIPTURE to a level than can only speak to an Intelligent Designer everywhere – anytime – any place science looks = the Intelligent DesignerRom 1:19 because what can be known about God is plain to them—for God has shown it to them. Rom 1:20 His invisible attributes—His eternal power and His divine nature—have been clearly seen ever since the creation of the world, being understood through the things that have been made. So people are without excuse— Why do you deny this scripture? Personally – I am overwhelmed that even the athiest work to uncover the truth of God as the Creator – no excuse!Your continued statement about this flawed world proves you give the credit and praise to your satan god2) Do they have intelligence to be crafty and clever to tempt mankind to sin?Does a mouse have intelligence – yes Required for self-preservation and the survival of the species Some beast are more intelligent than others (measured by man as – better problem solvers) You pride yourself on your orchard One hour of hungry locus One week of an infectious fungus One month of a virus – and all you have left is standing firewood Is intelligence required to make man sin – no You are you wife step out for an evening dinning and dancing You come home to find raccoons in your house You come home and find baboons in your house You come home to find chickens in your house You try to sell your house and you find termites in your house Is intelligence required to make man sin – no 3) Why do such natural creatures do this anyway? Were they designed to be arum on purpose? What do these natural creatures get out of this sort of agency of RA and Entropy thing? For beast of the field – they get self-preservation and the survival of the species (yester ra)For the Beast of Revelation – who is not mortal and does not worry about self-preservation – but does feed on / enjoy / crave – self satisfaction / pleasure You enjoy a good pat on the back don’t you – we all do – it makes us feel good Just imaging the satisfaction having new mothers offer their children to you in a burning sacrifice The Gospel of PhilipThese are powers which [...] man, not wishing him to be saved, in order that they may [...]. For if man is saved, there will not be any sacrifices [...] and animals will not be offered to the powers. Indeed, the animals were the ones to whom they sacrificed. They were indeed offering them up alive, but when they offered them up, they died. As for man, they offered him up to God dead, and he lived. Just imaging - 1000s / millions of people calling you God The Islamic Jinn – act just like Greco-Roman gods I bet my group of humans can beat your group of humans Let’s watch them fight Just like two men placing two dogs – or roosters – or two men in the arena – maybe even Christians and lions The Nag Hammadi is just more matter of fact Authoritative Teaching(a 1st or 2nd century Christian commentary)Now these are the foods with which the devil lies in wait for us. First he injects a pain into your heart until you have heartache on account of a small thing of this life, and he seizes (you) with his poisons. And afterward (he injects) the desire of a tunic, so that you will pride yourself in it, and love of money, pride, vanity, envy that rivals another envy, beauty of body, fraudulence. The greatest of all these are ignorance and ease.All of these = (yester ra)Now all such things the adversary prepares beautifully and spreads out before the body, wishing to make the mind of the soul incline her toward one of them and overwhelm her, like a hook, drawing her by force in ignorance, deceiving her until she conceives evil, and bears fruit of matter, and conducts herself in uncleanness, pursuing many desires, covetousnesses, while fleshly pleasure draws her in ignorance.Ignorance – darkness - choshekBut the soul - she who has tasted these things - realized that sweet passions are transitory. YEP – Eve became mortal – and will die as all other animals doShe had learned about evil; she went away from them and she entered into a new conduct. YEP – the only thing that happened was education Eve now understood the difference between tov and ra - life and deathAfterwards she despises this life, because it is transitory. YEP – the desire is to return to the Bosom of Abraham – to be with God – in God’s Kingdom – not here in the kingdom of the BEAST And she looks for those foods that will take her into life, and leaves behind her those deceitful foods.The expression – we are what we eat all addicts must change their people, places, and habits – or soon relaps And she learns about her light, as she goes about stripping off this world, while her true garment clothes her within, (and) her bridal clothing is placed upon her in beauty of mind, not in pride of flesh. Correct – learn of the Light (Christ) Correct – change the clothing on the inner man Correct – giving the Glory always to God – not to flesh or worldAnd she learns about her depth and runs into her fold, while her shepherd stands at the door. Correct – Paul – Romans cht 7 – the inner struggle beteewn what I know I should do – and what I actually do – Rom 7:24 Miserable man that I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Rom 7:25 Thanks be to God—it is through Messiah Yeshua our Lord! In return for all the shame and scorn, then, that she received in this world, she receives ten thousand times the grace and glory.YES – the return of the Prodigal Son results in DIVINE JOYLuk 15:21 Then the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your presence. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ Luk 15:22 “But the father said to his slaves, ‘Quick! Bring out the best robe and put it on him! Put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet. Luk 15:23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it! Let’s celebrate with a feast! Luk 15:24 For this son of mine was dead and has come back to life—he was lost and is found!’ Then they began to celebrate. ------------------------- Some creator God you serve, creating creatures to destroy man's free will to love God with all of his heart. Who teaches this? – only in your imagination? You invent a falsehood – just so you can argue against it The Beast cannot destroy man’s Free Will Man is of both worlds – we are spirit having a physical souljourn Man is animal (beast) with (yester ra) Man is spirit with (yester tov) This is the Free Will choice – world / flesh or God There is no way the BEAST can take this away from man ------------------- Now God says to Himself, I must test this free will and so intentionally creates a flawed world with arum creatures to make mankind love the world and it's temporary idols, all for what? Just to develop free will, with what, a knowledge of sin? Who teaches this? – only in your imagination? You invent a falsehood – just so you can argue against it and one very big reason why our conversations go nowhereInstead of having an honest academic discussion You make up / invent and misrepresent Why not just create mankind like God the created angels, to serve and praise.------------------------------------ Answer why you have such a terrible world to begin with and for what?Romans 1:19-20 – My world is finely tuned so that life can thrive – no matter where science looks – no matter when then look – no matter the place they look – creation – as is – points to an Intelligent Designer – the one and only CreatorEach morning as I wake – I am overwhelmed to tears with God’s creation – the beauty – the complicated intricacies – the interwoven web of life As I drive down the road – I am amazed at His Glory At night – here in Colorado we often see the Milky Way and a sky painted with starts Romans 1-19-20 I am in awe of the Lord You call it a flawed world and blame it all on your satan
.------------------------------- Oh your Gnostic writings only say for the Father's glory. What bunk !My Gnostic writings say Authoritative Teachingthe Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this (world) My Gnostic teaching is the same teaching as mainstream Christianity – you are the one that is on the outside protesting the truthThis one line in the Bible REVEALS God's reason for CREATION 31:25 min - But you only need to listen to the first two minutes to hear God created the heavens and earth to REVEAL HIMSELFI know you hate it – and it frustrates you – when Jewish Kabbalah teaching is actually just Christian Oh your Gnostic writings only say for the Father's glory. What bunk !For you to say this proves you have never studied scripture at depth – you sure miss the message – you sure miss the teachings In fact = again you call scripture – the word of God – bogus in an attempt to defend your Ellen White cult----------------------------- I love my God because His love makes sense, and my love is not tested, nor does love require testing if the love is genuine. Yet you argue your god declaired Job was saved – therefor protected by a hedge – before God allowed satan to test him You preach a contradiction – with pride and gusto ----------------------------- My faith needs testing because I have not developed supreme faith, like Jesus had on earth. Who has? All those who have come close have been martyred – most by the Roman church A fruit tree makes its best fruit under periods of tribulation.What a Gnostic thing to sayThe Exegesis on the Soul… repentance takes place in distress and grief. But the father is good and loves humanity, and he hears the soul that calls upon him and sends it the light of salvation. Therefore he said through the spirit to the prophet (cf. 1 Cl 8:3), "Say to the children of my people, 'If your sins extend from earth to heaven, and if they become red like scarlet and blacker than sackcloth, and if you return to me with all your soul and say to me 'my Father!', I will heed you as a holy people.'" Is my Gnostic literature heresy Or is your new teaching heresy?--------------------- You say GOD is only grace. NEVER have I said God is ONLY GraceRepeat - Who teaches this? – only in your imagination? You invent a falsehood – just so you can argue against it and one very big reason why our conversations go nowhere Instead of having an honest academic discussion You make up / invent and misrepresent Not so. God is also just. He judges you by your works of faith, and how you used the powers of GOD that God provided to you. The Scripture records only a few are saved, so small a tiny child could write the number down. What a Christian witness you have Welcome – come learn of the lord and spend you life in self-denial – but you probably won’t be saved anywayTell me this is not a satanic message 2Pe 3:8 But don’t forget this one thing, loved ones, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like one day. 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise, as some consider slowness. Rather, He is being patient toward you—not wanting anyone to perish, but for all to come to repentance. This is a message of hope for many if not all----------------------------- Your whole theory of having no opposer of God, makes no sense. Do not need an opposer god The Contest is between man the the world + man and the archon – Gen 3:15 Do not need an opposer god – the BEAST of Revelation is enough opposition to man Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down—the ancient serpent, called the devil and satan, who deceives the whole world. He was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. Rev 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven saying, “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Anointed One, for the accuser of our brothers and sisters—the one who accuses them before our God day and night—has been thrown out. ----------------------- You have no Great Controversy over sinning creatures with free will, only man sinned. Scripture says – sin entered the world through manRom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned. YES – I accept scripture over your denominational traditions That's funny, I read in Ezekiel that a cherub sinned. So again you must disagree / deny NT scripture?The cherub is a metaphor for the King of Tyre YES - the King of Tyre sinnedOh this is supposed to be a Catholic reading of Scripture. I never knew that. I read Scripture very well by myself with the HS as my tutor. NOPE – Ellen White is your prophet -------------------------------- You follow trinity, and that is a Catholic invention, but you accept this as a fact with your three expressions idea of the Father. The plurality of God has always been a Jewish teachings You NEED to watch this - A Jewish Defense of the Trinity - The Case for MessiahYHWY / Yesuah – God is the saviour Sheikienah – the Spirit of God – the Glory of God Exo 33:19 So He said, “I will cause all My goodness to pass before you, and call out the Name of Adonai before you. I will be gracious toward whom I will be gracious, and I will show mercy on whom I will be merciful.” Exo 33:20 But He also said, “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live.” Exo 33:21 Then Adonai said, “See, a place near Me—you will stand on the rock. Exo 33:22 While My glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and cover you with My hand, until I have passed by. Exo 33:23 Then I will take away My hand, and you will see My back, but My face will not be seen.” God the Father – YHWY – beyond man’s ability to comprehend
The Glory of God – the Spirit of God – wisdom
The image of God – in 3D form – Christ – God incarnate------------------- God the Father – that no man can seeGod is larger than creation – outside of creation But – He does interact with His creation as Spirit – Shekeinah The Holy Spirit – God at a distance reach out to His creation from His Throne The Left Hand – the hand of mystery and judgment AND – God did Tabernacle with a Tent - building of stone – and in the flesh as God incarnate – in 3D physical formThe Right Hand – the hand of instruction and salvation's ----------------------- If GOD notices the tiny sparrow falling to the ground, GOD is angry over what caused the sparrow's death. Such a cause is God's opposer.Such a cause = is the Cycle of Life – God’s witness written into nature Birth – growth to maturity – death – and rebirth From the beginning – growth to maturity – do I need to atone for anything – God does Tabernacle with man – salvation is only by the Lord – Passover – then Pentecost Roshh Hashanah - Yom Kippur - Sukkot - Purim - Pesach - ShavoutBirth – growth to maturity – death – and rebirth The Parade of the Jews fpr 1000 years before Christ--------------------------- I do not get you, if the archons oppose man, than the archons are also opposing God. How can I say this? because all creatures were made for God's glory Just momenst ago you said:Oh your Gnostic writings only say for the Father's glory. What bunk !More of Robert’s contradictory teaching – just teach confusionand thus should live in peace. This is your wishful fantasy– it is not our reality Stop embracing fantasy and start recognizing what is in your sight In the end, the lion lives in peace with the lamb, This is not our reality Stop embracing fantasy and start recognizing what is in your sight and the archons should live in peace with man too. But they don't, You have zero proof of this statement from scripture Rev 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are too, and they shall be tortured day and night forever and ever. The devil / satanas + the BEAST + the false prophet Why is their no mention of all the shedim / all archon / all Jinn / all demons / all devils / and all satanas (pl)OH – YESRob - Satan also and evil angels are judged by Christ and His people. Says Paul, “Know ye not that we shall judge angels?” 1 Corinthians 6:3.8YES – I was going to bring this up the other day How would true Christ like Christians judge Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. Evidently Ellen White has taught you it is more Christ like to damn everyone to hell – take revenge – get pay backThis sounds like a satanic message to meand the archons should live in peace with man too. But they don't, they were designed to be man's enemy, tempter and agent of RA. Correct – they were created as agents of ra – entropyNOT TRUE they were created to be man’s enemy specifically – but man is world and they deceive the whole world.Well what kind of God do you worship? This 1st / 2nd century Christian commentary says it the bestAuthoritative TeachingHe, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear, and make all those who contend leave behind the things that had come into being, and despise them with a lofty, incomprehensible knowledge, and flee to the one who exists.And (as for) those who contend with us, being adversaries who contend against us, we are to be victorious over their ignorance through our knowledge, since we have already known the Inscrutable One from whom we have come forth. We have nothing in this world, lest the authority of the world that has come into being should detain us in the world. You say the sharks were meat eating all along, so you want your archons to fit into your world of natural danger and natural decomposition and decay. That is your view of GOD, but not mine.YES Robert – I fully believe the scripture of Roman’s 1:19-20 YES - I fully accept the word of GodWhat has Roman’s 1:19-20 uncovered?Entropy is a necessary part of a functional physical creation. Without it physics stops – chemistry stops – biology stops What has Roman’s 1:19-20 uncovered?10s of 1000s od museums filled with the empirical evidence that once was used to suggest evolution Instead – the revelation is – the order of scientific evolution is exactly the same order as Genesis chpt 1 Real and honest science validating scripturePersonally – this excites me beyond belief ITS TRUE – EVERY WORDand I want to share that knowledge with the whole world! INCREMENTAL CREATION---------------------------------------- Personal note The goal of this ministry is to research – discuss – explore the theology of Jesus – His Disciples – and His original followers – the first Messianic Jews You are here to defend the Catholic Catechism of Fallen AngelsYou need to defend your satan – because your Ellen White cult is built upon the pagan Zoroastrian concept of two opposing gods – one good and one evilYou must realize that all of your ‘christian’ education has been error. Overwhelmingly - you have been taught to deny scripture and doubt. You deny scripture in favor of a metaphor that came to life in Ezk 28 It only leaves you with questions – and doubt I once told you I was going to keep a list of scripture you deny to keep Ellen White correct The list is endless – now you are even willing to denounce the entire New Testament - you go to far – Christian
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Post by Dave on Sept 2, 2023 19:59:28 GMT -5
John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Rob" This verse above all others proves that the Opposer is opposing the Father, No – this proves that men who sin are of the world This proves men who sin – choose world over obedience to God My second point is the term "ratsach" meaning "no wounding". The Opposer main opposition to GOD is the opposer wounds the chances of humans seeking salvation. Dave agrees with me that the opposer opposes mankind, and this is my point. This proves the Opposes is wounding the human, by robbing him of his ability to seek salvation. No robbing – only tempting The archon cannot force you to do anything The Free Will choice is always man’s to make
Thus the devil offers false milky words to humans so the humans fake their own salvation on human terms, but NOT on God's terms. Correct – all men in their teens and 20s think they will live forever Correct - men are under the worldly delusion that what they do in secrete goes unseen Correct – the chance to be KING is tempting for every man Correct – the opportunity to be wealthy, famous, and powerful is very seductive This is why the devil is the Hebrew word "shad" meaning "teat or breast". The opposer offers man to drink false milk, or false teachings. OK – they offer world – I agreeAnd this wounding is direct proof the Opposer is opposing GOD. NO – this only proves they oppose manJohn 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out. Jesus came to destroy the Opposer and his opposing of GOD's principles of faithful living. God cast out the Opposer and his angels once before FROM heaven to EARTH. SO your claim that the beast was designed intentionally as an agent of RA is bogus. The beast became that way from a war in heaven. I know you teach a weak god and a strong satan – and a long duration war that god has difficulty winning
This is anti-scripture – who can stand against God – NO ONE Who can change God or change God’s Plan – NO ONE-------------------------------------- God did not also create billions of other messengers (angels) also as agents of RA along with the chief Opposer. Correct – they all came from the First Archon that procreatedAnd ALL hundreds of billions of them were cast into the earth. What could have caused this war 1) The Archon (BEAST) was created with some matterWhen the Beast woke up – all he could see was matter / physical creation because he was matter – he claimed to be the first and only one No law broken – only arrogant ignorance spoken - Choshek The First Archon sinned against the entirety (all creation)But Dave does not like creatures changing their roles, nor do you have angels with free will. NOPE – cows never become pigs – ants never become horses angels (messengers of the Lord) never become demons (messengers of the Beast)Hence you cannot debate with me, because your creatures cannot think like humans, Nope – pigs do not thinkl like humans – ants do not think like humans – baboons do not think like humans – archon do not think like humans – we are all created differentlythus they also cannot sin like humans. Correct – cows do what they do (yester ra) Correct – ants do what they do (yester ra) Correct – archn do what they do (yester ra) Correct man = (yester ra) + (yester tov) – we consider if what we do is right or wrong – suffer guilt and regret ---------------------------------- Well that's funny, because I find the devil sins like humans sin in 1 John 3: 8, but again Dave avoids the reading of the verse. You deny Scripture as it reads plainly. 1Jn 3:8 The one who practices sin is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. Ben-Elohim appeared for this purpose—to destroy the works of the devil.
YEP – men who sin are choosing world over God YEP – Christ came to rescue us from ourselves – rescue us from this world
Matthew 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Why are the opposers facing eternal fire, if they were intentionally designed as agents of RA? 1) YES – the archon are from the Left hand – I agree 2) YES – they are agents of ra – entropy 3) My scripture tells me – no agents of ra – no entropy in the New heaven and earth of Rev 21 4) YES – the BEAST – satanas – and the ‘false prophet’ will be eliminated – removed – cast into the Lake of Fire which is the Second Death – death of spirit ---------------------- Hebrews 2:14 Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, The Opposer has the power of death?Correct – if you listen to them – if you follow after them The Free Will choice is always man’s and man’s alone God is the author of living. OK – agreed – all life – even the archon – made by Him for Him – Col 1:16The Opposer the author of death.Sorry Robert – I do not accept you denominational traditionsWho is the author of death?Gen 2:16 Then Adonai Elohim commanded the man saying, “From all the trees of the garden you are most welcome to eat. Gen 2:17 But of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil you must not eat. For when you eat from it, you most assuredly will die!” -------------------------------------------------- Thus the Opposer is opposing God because the opposer sins. This is your Ellen White cult teachingWhat law has the BEAST violated I only know of two commandments for the beast Go forth and multiply – and reproduce after your own kind -------------------------------- At least two verses says this idea, but Dave claims it's a Catholic invention. Ezk 28 and what other verse? I listed every verse that contains the words – satan and satanas – you were to go through each line and show us how it proves your satan rebels, hates, and opposes GodSo is the idea of trinity. You follow trinity, and that is a Catholic invention, but you accept this as a fact with your three expressions idea of the Father. The plurality of God has always been a Jewish teachings You NEED to watch this - A Jewish Defense of the Trinity - The Case for MessiahYHWY / Yesuah – God is the saviour Sheikienah – the Spirit of God – the Glory of God Exo 33:19 So He said, “I will cause all My goodness to pass before you, and call out the Name of Adonai before you. I will be gracious toward whom I will be gracious, and I will show mercy on whom I will be merciful.” Exo 33:20 But He also said, “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live.” Exo 33:21 Then Adonai said, “See, a place near Me—you will stand on the rock. Exo 33:22 While My glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and cover you with My hand, until I have passed by. Exo 33:23 Then I will take away My hand, and you will see My back, but My face will not be seen.” God the Father – YHWY – beyond man’s ability to comprehend The Glory of God – the Spirit of God – wisdom The image of God – in 3D form – Christ – God incarnate------------------- God the Father – that no man can seeGod is larger than creation – outside of creation But – He does interact with His creation as Spirit – Shekeinah The Holy Spirit – God at a distance reach out to His creation from His Throne The Left Hand – the hand of mystery and judgment AND – God did Tabernacle with a Tent - building of stone – and in the flesh as God incarnate – in 3D physical formThe Right Hand – the hand of instruction and salvation'sJust because a nation swallows Israel for some years does not make their influence entirely from that nation. COnsider Babylon. It swallowed Israel. But God saved the king of Babylon. And you cannot stand the theories that came from Babylonian times. YEP – that is what I said – God can bless any man He chooses – for any purpose He chooses Than the Persians swallowed Israel, and you cannot stand the theories from Persian times. Can't God wrestle truth from pagan nations too, to show up Israel who wander off the track time and time again? I totally agree – God playing both sides to form a crucible for the truth Just like God sending Moses unto Pharaoh – then God hardening Pharaoh's heartGod playing both sides to form a crucible for the truthGod establishing the Contest of Gen 3:15God playing both sides to form a crucible for the truthH e, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear, and make all those who contend leave behind the things that had come into being, and despise them with a lofty, incomprehensible knowledge, and flee to the one who exists. What is that truth? The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the one true God – to reveal the Glory of God
No they can't says Dave, only the Jews know the truth from the very beginning. If that were truth why did God punish them over and over with nations invading them? The lesson of Israel from the OT1) Stand with God and he stand with you 2) Walk away from God – join the world – and God will chastise you – because God CORRECTS His choosen people 2 Corinthians 11:3 But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. Wow, so glad Paul agrees the serpent was sinning to help make Eve also sin. You have a real issue with honesty – who gives you the authority to rewrite scripture to include your denominational traditions the serpent deceived Eve The choice was hersPaul writes the opposer is able to get humans away from Jesus, shows to me that the Opposer is Opposing God directly.No one can oppose God – it is not a scriptural teachings YES – the seductions of the world are many and strong You admitted once would would not witness to prostitutes in a brothel – why not? The archon oppose man – they get man sidetracked – anything to keep you focused away from the Holy SpiritActs 13:10 And said, “You son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, full of all deceit and villainy, will you not stop making crooked the straight paths of the Lord? Wow that is pretty plain to me too. The Opposer makes crooked paths. God makes a straight path. Both are opposites because both oppose each other. Acts 13:10 Paul is speaking to ‘Elymas the magician’ Elymas the magician makes crooked paths Man makes crooked pathsJohn 14:30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no claim on me, Why would the Opposer want to make a claim on Jesus, who is God? Jesus is not God – He is the Son of man – 100% human biology It is the jo od the opposer to oppose all the world – including human Jesus But Christ answer claiming to be God incarnateCan God sin? Well Dave seems to think so because God commands Israel to kill humans in an act of war over territory. YES – I believe scripture 100% - God calls for a genocyde of the 7 tribes of Amorite – the Sons of Anak – the post Flood Nephilim / Rephiem – beginning with all of the inhabitants of Jericho save RahabRobert – must deny this scripture to keep his Ellen White teaching valid But here the Opposer cannot find a single sin inside Jesus. NOPE – was NOT ALLOWED TO EVEN TEMPTMat 4:7 Yeshua said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put Adonai your God to the test.’” --------------------------------- In Ephesians Paul describes elohiym as a family and this picture solves all the problems for anyone wanting to understand elohiym. But Dave does not like this idea. NOPE – NOT A FAMILY OF THREE DIFFERENT GODS – THREE DIFFERENT BEINGSRevelation 2:10 Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life. Wow, the Opposer throwns humans into prison. Which ones are these? Believers and non-believers that are NOT Born Again First Fruits – suffering Proportional Punishment – to arise at the First resurrection and reign with God – Rev 20:4
1 John 5:19 We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. YEP the Contest of Gen 3:15 is between man and WORLD + man and archon1 Peter 5:8-9 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced by your brotherhood throughout the world. The Opposer prowls like a lion seeking to kill humans. Yep – Christians are called to a spiritual warfare The more pious you become the more the world (archon) hate you
2 Timothy 2:26 And they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will. Humans are snared to do the will of the Opposer. YEP – man becomes a slave to the world 1 Timothy 5:15 For some have already strayed after Satan. YEP – the Canaanite of the 99% followed false gods – as did the rest of the known world – the rest of the 99% also followed false gods Humans seek the Opposer because the Opposer helps make humans sin. YEP – Dr Faust – sold his soul for wealth and fame
Dave agrees the Opposer opposes man. But Jesus came to destroy the work of the Opposer. That logic suggests to me than, that Jesus hates SIN,, what the Opposer is doing to humans, getting humans to SIN. OK – and that is why God sent His only begotten son to rescue man from this world and it’s prince
1 Thessalonians 2:18 Because we wanted to come to you—I, Paul, again and again—but Satan hindered us. The rare use of the Hebrew word, the Opposer opposed Paul. YEP – the archon oppose manDoes God want Paul to be a missionary to the world? YEP – the archon oppose manDoes the Opposer want the world to understand the gospel? YEP – the archon oppose manI see clearly here, both elohiym powers are opposing each other. NOPE – only that the archon oppose manEphesians 6:12For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. This verse says we are not fighting over humans wth flesh and blood, but other creatures who are not of flesh and blood, but are rulers of darkness, and thus oppose humans. YEP – the KJV Principalities – otherwise know the the early Christians as the archon – or to the ancient Hebrews as the shedimDo these rulers of darkness also oppose God? They must otherwise why did GOD war with them, kicking them out of heaven Because they are made with some matter – they belong in matter – oil and water do not mix – nether does matter and heaven
1Co 15:50 Now I say this, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and what decays cannot inherit what does not decay. war with them, destroying their princely right on earth (Jesus dies to claim to rule) YEP – to rescue man from this world and it’s princewar with them again one last time, throwing them into the Lake of fire. YEP – no agents of ra / entropy in the New Heaven and Earth of Rev 21---------------------------- The latter torah is full of verses where the Opposer opposes man, and thus is seen directly opposing God.
You openly denied the New Testament – calling it errorYou are Correct - the Opposer opposes man and thus is seen directly opposing God.- is just your denominational traditionActs 26:18 To open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’ Here two elohiym powers stand directl opposing each other, as light opposes darkness. YEP – the darkness of IGNORANCE and the LIGHT of TRUTHAs self opposes faith. YEP – the darkness of IGNORANCE and the LIGHT of TRUTH
Luke 10:19 Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you. Sounds like GOD telling humans to oppose the Opposer to me.YEP – because they are our real struggle – the Principalities / archon of Eph 6:12 YEP – Christians are called to a spiritual warfare Luke 9:42 While he was coming, the demon threw him to the ground and convulsed him. But Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit and healed the boy, and gave him back to his father. Question: Does GOD normally have unclean spirits in a sinless world? Yes / No? In the next world the opposer is gone, in the Lake of Fire, so the answer is no. Why than is there an unclean spirit? And why does this spirit possess humans? Answer – this is not the next world – this is this world and this world has had the BEAST / entropy at play since Gen 1:2Luke 4: And Jesus answered him, “It is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.’” SO why are humans serving other gods? Why are humans serving self? Because it feels good – because they are promised wealth, power, or fameRomans 8:28 no matter the grief in your life just give it to God and all will be roses – is an empty message generated by Catholicism Where does this unclean spirit come from within the human?Humans are nor possessed Human are 100% animal (yester ra) – we want / desire / lust all on our ownMatthew 4:3 And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.” Human power cannot do such a thing. So Jesus was not asked as a human to do this miracle, but as GOD. Only God can turn stones into bread. This is proof the Opposer was tempting God to make bread from stone. REPEAT - Mat 4:7 Yeshua said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put Adonai your God to the test.’”
TEST NOT ALLOWED – why because – CHRIST = GOD INCARNATE---------------------------------------- 1 Kings 22:22 And the Lord said to him, ‘By what means?’ And he said, ‘I will go out, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And he said, ‘You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.’ So this unclean spirit that goes out from God into the king, a human who wishes to sin, seems to have God's approval. YES – God is in control of all creation – evil spirits – the BEAST – the archon - everything------------------------------------------ There has to be other elohiym power, because the royal torah says so" have no other elohiym powers before my face" Exodus 20:1In ancient days there wer many other elohiym powers 33 named with Canaan More named in Egypt More existed in India Many – many other elohiym powers They are not imaginary – they have not dissipated – they have just changed tactics – Roman’s 1 homosexuality – UFOs – bad science and evolution – many alternative religions to choose from – government collusion with dark forces ------------------------------------- Genesis 3:5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” Question: How is knowing both good and evil, helpful to Adam and Eve? 1) God foreknew this would happen – allowed it to happen – to reveal His Plan of Salvation 2) the benefit to man = once we know death – we can appreciate John 3:16 and the amazing Gift of Grace extendedAnswer" It's not helpful. They lost the HS covering, they lost communion with GOD, they lost their home, lost their tree of life eating forever, they began to die, they became fearful, they lost all manner of things that very day, for what? What good comes from sinning? YEP – now Eve understood – death comes from sinning
How does sinning help the human seek God? NO – but it allows man to appreciate the gift of salvationIt doesn't. Sinning is actually opposing GOD in every way. NO – sinning is transgressing God’s commandments Sinning is an act od spiritual suicide Sinning = I don’t care if I die Sinning – I doubt scripture – I doubt God – and I really wont die Genesis 3:4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. Lots of things began to die and die immediately.Where is your scripture for this Where is your empirical evidence for this All you have is your denominational traditionMt 53 ¶ Blessed are the "humble" in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Are the opposers humble before humans? No, they seek to destroy humans. Correct – the archon oppose manMt 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Do the opposers mourn what they have lost when they sinned? No, they enjoy sinning and do as they please, SELF is a power that seeks nothing but itself. Self is it's own god. This is a correct statement – the archon have no conscious – no guiltMt 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: Does the opposer seek righteousness? No they seek selfish living in the world This is a correct statement – the archon have no conscious – no guilt
Mt :7 Blessed are the merciful: Does the opposer show mercy? No, they throw humans into prison scripture says. This is a correct statement – the archon have no conscious – no guilt and they oppose manMt 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: Do the opposers allow humans to live at peace? No The opposers live on war and make money from war and choas, not peace. This is a correct statement – the archon have no conscious – no guilt and they oppose manMt 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Does the Opposer do good works of faith in this world? No Nope they oppose manWould GOD create creatures of RA and entropy on purpose ? NO God would only create creatures that live in peace and harmony.Why do you deny the New Testament?Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers (archon / Principalities / shedim / devils and satan), against the powers, against the worldly forces of this darkness, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created—in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen, whether thrones or angelic powers or rulers or authorities (archon / Principalities / shedim / devils and satanas). All was created through Him and for Him. Joh 1:3 All things were made through Him, and apart from Him nothing was made that has come into being. Rev 4:11 “Worthy are You, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, For You created all things, and because of Your will they existed and were created!” Why do you also deny the Old Testament?Isa 45:4 For the sake of Jacob My servant, and Israel My chosen one, I have also called you by name, I have given you a title of honor, though you have not known Me. Isa 45:5 I am Adonai—there is no other. Besides Me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not known Me, Isa 45:6 so they may know, from the rising to the setting of the sun, that there is no one besides Me. I am Adonai—there is no other. Isa 45:7 I form light and create darkness. I make shalom and create calamity. I, Adonai, do all these things. You have to deny too much scripture to follow Ellen White’s satanic cult The fact the you have to deny any scripture should be your first indication she is errorThe fact that you have been a faithful Ellen White follower for >25 years and still doubt belief and still don’t understand faith and still seeking ther question – how to be saved This should be your second clue that you follow an empty teachingIsa 65:24 And it will come to passIsa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD. Isa 65:17 For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered or come to mind.
This is a reference to the New heaven and earth of Rev 21SO how come the lion eats sheep and the snake bite kills humans, and many creatures destroy my holy mountain today on earth? Because this is not the New Heaven and earth of Rev 21 This is still the Contest of Gen 3:15 – man against world and man against the archon------------------------ Robert - I have to tell you how boring this discussion is You post the same denominational traditional talking points over and over You post exk 28 over and over in the hopes it will become trure You ask the same questions over and over as if I would ever answer differently You have an incomplete theolgy and are unable to answer simple Christian questions You refuse to answer a direct questionThis thread listed every verse that uses the word satan or satanas You were supposed to go through each verse and show us how it proves your atan rebels, hates, and opposes God The question to you was A So far you have talked at long length about B, C, D. E, F, some of G, a touch on H -and a reference to I But - hows does any of this prove your satan rebels. hates and opposes GodYour assumption bias - saying if the archon oppose man this means they oppose GodIS NOT SCRIPTURAL PROOF - its is the denominational tradion of Ellen WhiteYou refuse to answer a direct questionYou play stupid - you post scripture saying don't worry about knowing the truth Or you refuse to answer - because an honest answer would contradict your Ellen White cult traditions This should be your third clue that Ellen White teaches a false doctrine
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Post by Dave on Sept 3, 2023 19:49:30 GMT -5
The last time we tried this proof of your satan
Your final conclusion / justification then = anyone opposing man is opposing God Your final conclusion / justification now = if the archon oppose man then they oppose God It is an assumption from your denominational traditions
Precept upon precpt, line upon line – scripture does not validate your satan doctrine
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: -----------------------------------
P.S.
I have been laying here awake rethinking this thread
You have very successfully shown that satanas, the devil, the serpent, the BEAST, the dragon – the ARCHON oppose man in many ways
As man reaches up for God → the archon get in man's way → God Man → archon → God
YES – there is an arum factor involved – the archon are smarter than us – more crafty than we are – they are the most arum of all animals (man included)
YES – the archon out-smart us – trick us – play games with us – toy with us
(David Ike points out - they are playing the long game that may take 100s of years to unfold on earth - as they slowly manipulate societies through history)
Islam says - the Jinn are jealous of man – they were here first – but then God gave dominion to man Islam also suggest – the Jinn feed on our emotions – they want to envoke strong emotions in man – anger – revenge – rage Gnostic says – the archon are copy-cats – they pretend to be gods – they tried to create their on man (Nephilim) – because they copy God Gnostic says – if man turns to God – who will sacrifice to the archon pretender gods King Solomon says – they are mentally ill – crazy beings – that enjoy tormenting man – each with its own favorite style of torment King Solomon also suggest – they feed on our fear NT scripture says – they deceive man – they deceive the whole world – they accuse man before the Lord – day and night NT scripture says – they are our real struggle NT Scripture says – Jesus Christ came to overthrow the works of the devil NT scripture says – Jesus Christ came to rescue us from them and their world Secular man says – just outside our field of vision are entities that are anything but human – and they have been manipulating our world from the outside for eons – some call them demonic, some call them the serpent race, Islam calls them the Jinn – David Ike
Never does it happen in reverse – never do the archon get in the way of God reaching down to man
Man ←archon ←God
God can reach into the deepest pit in hell and rescue anyone he wants – satanas, devils, demons, archon, BEAST, serpent, Jinn, boogy man cannot stop God
Who can oppose God – NO ONE! ---------------------------------------------------
Also – man is a duality (animal yester ra) + (spirit yester tov) man is tested – tempted – BOTH LEVELS
animal (yester ra) – must deal with hunger, thirst, hot, cold, physical danger
spirit (yester tov) – wants to choose right – do right by God – and is in a spiritual warfare with the archon – who wisper do it – you will like it – it will feel good – no one will know – its ok to desire / lust / want - spiritual danger
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Post by Richard on Sept 5, 2023 8:01:07 GMT -5
AGREE
You have very successfully shown that satanas, the devil, the serpent, the BEAST, the dragon – the ARCHON oppose man in many ways
As man reaches up for God → the archon get in man's way → God Man → archon → God
YES – there is an arum factor involved – the archon are smarter than us – more crafty than we are – they are the most arum of all animals (man included) YES – the archon out-smart us – trick us – play games with us – toy with us (David Ike points out - they are playing the long game that may take 100s of years to unfold on earth - as they slowly manipulate societies through history)
Never does it happen in reverse – never do the archon get in the way of God reaching down to man
Man ←archon ←God
God can reach into the deepest pit in hell and rescue anyone he wants – satanas, devils, demons, archon, BEAST, serpent, Jinn, boogy man cannot stop God
Who can oppose God – NO ONE!
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