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Post by rob on Sept 7, 2023 15:59:48 GMT -5
Greetings Dave Dave" Jesus called satanas - Beelzebub The teaching of Jesus has nothing to do with Hebrew satan and everything to do with the Beast of Revelation and his army of archonRob" I see. This teaching is based on that Greek was the primary language describing Jesus conversations with Jews. You are introducing a NT torah that is totally different to the OT torah. Dave" The Beast cannot destroy man’s Free WillRob" I see. So when a human is fully possessed by a demon,, that human can still free himself using free will? I don't think so, going by the large number of trapped victims that Jesus freed. Sure I agree the humans are free to choose God, but they are also free to choose the demon elohiym power. 1Ki 18:24 And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the LORD: and the God that answereth by fire, let him be God. And all the people answered and said, It is well spoken. Here were two elohiym powers both according to humans were "gods of thunder and fire". Rob PP" Now God says to Himself, I must test this free will and so intentionally creates a flawed world with arum creatures to make mankind love the world and it's temporary idols, all for what? Just to develop free will, with what, a knowledge of sin?DAVE" Who teaches this? – only in your imagination? You invent a falsehood – just so you can argue against it and one very big reason why our conversations go nowhereRob" I see. Than write how you see your theory than. Explain the need to develop free will, and why sinning is even required to develop free will, when you have no creatures that even sinned. If no creature ever sinned, I cannot see why God would have to develop and test free will in the first place? Can you explain this? If man is the first and only creature with free will according to you, why is there a need to develop and test free will? After all no creature has ever sinned and disobeyed GOD. In my theory of faith, I do not need to answer such a question, because God is love. In your faith of faith, you need to answer the question because you have no sin in your world, until the humans sinned, after God intentionally made arum creatures to test the human free will. Dave" Each morning as I wake – I am overwhelmed to tears with God’s creation – the beauty – the complicated intricacies – the interwoven web of life As I drive down the road – I am amazed at His Glory At night – here in Colorado we often see the Milky Way and a sky painted with starts Romans 1-19-20 I am in awe of the Lord You call it a flawed world and blame it all on your satanRob" I do NOT call our world a flawed world, only a SINNING world, created perfectly by GOD by spoiled by SINNING. And despite man spoiling the world, it is indeed very beautiful and very ordered, even snow and rain, which are only here after man sinned, but shows how clever GOD is to allow changes to His creation and yet these changes are still ordered and beautiful. You do not have in your world any real sinning that I see. Your archons do not sin, and mankind has as a natural inclination to do yester ra, so you do not have any sinning or rebellion against God. And in your theory natural death, natural decomposition existed from the beginning. I suppose rain and snow also existed in your theory too. Why even your book of Enoch speaks of seasons of summer and winter, which in my view is false. --------------------- Dave" My Gnostic teaching is the same teaching as mainstream Christianity – you are the one that is on the outside protesting the truthRob" Really? Most religions teach the soul lives in heaven straight away upon leaving the body, so you might be right, but this does not mean the majority equals truth. Dave's Video "This one line in the Bible REVEALS God's reason for CREATION Rabbi says bara also means to reveal? Really? And which Bible text does the Rabbi quote? Not a single one?"God created the world so HE would be known". I see. Dave" I know you hate it – and it frustrates you – when Jewish Kabbalah teaching is actually just ChristianROb" I see. Dave" Yet you argue your god declaired Job was saved – therefore protected by a hedge – before God allowed satan to test him
You preach a contradiction – with pride and gustoRob" You do not see my sentences of thought very well do you Dave? The archons were able to tempt Job for years and years, than one day the sinning Job, wants to be saved by God, and thus the hedge of protection came upon Job, preventing further archon attack. Than one day God boasts to the Chief Archon how Job is complete and saved. The Chief archon makes excuses to get to attack Job once more, and again a second further time, after the first attack failed. You have to explain what the hedge about Job is for Dave, which you have not explained. And in this world when you are saved by Jesus, the world hates you for this, but the hedge of protection controls the attacking by the Opposer for this reason. "Be of good cheer, I have overcome the world", Jesus said. Dave" This is a message of hope for many if not allROb" well said Dave Dave" Do not need an opposer god The Contest is between man the the world + man and the archon – Gen 3:15Rob" I see. Explain these words from this verse than Lu 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. 7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.This message spoken by the Opposer proves much about the Opposer's existence and intent. Who delivered the world unto the Opposer? The Father did. Why? Because Adam sinned transferring from one prince (adam) to another prince (Satan) Ro 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, Condemnation is a court word used by a judge when something happens. In this case when Adam sinned adam lost his crown to rule earth as a prince. " All this power will I give you, and their glory, for it was delievered unto me" Now tell me this isn't an opposer opposing God and taking earth creation from God. And it's not ignorance either. " delivered unto me" is not an ignorance statement. Jesus came to take back the kingdom of earth, by dying the death all humans have to die, in order to regain the right to be prince over the earth. Hence the reason Jesus was hung upon the pole. "Look unto me, all ye ends of the earth" Jesus said. Dave" Scripture says – sin entered the world through man Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned. Rob" Yes, death came to humans, because humans sinned. This verse does not say other creatures could have sinned, only talks about humans sinning. Dave" The cherub is a metaphor for the King of Tyre YES - the King of Tyre sinned Rob" You cannot take a Hebrew word and make this meaning ONLY. Cherub are also created creatures with wings. Not just a reference to humans. Why can't you acknowledge this? Eze 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God: God's message to the prince human about sinning happens in the second verse already, verse 2. So are you saying the human is recorded of sinning over and over again? in different poetry ways? Eze 28:10 Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: This human prince is to die a certain way... Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Now we have a different Hebrew word, a reigner of Tyre. Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God I don't see the prince of Tyre old enough to have also lived in Eden, but this reigner is old enough. Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; This cherub walked in the holy mountain of God, somewhere in heaven way beyond earth.... so you also say some human achieved this? I don't think so? Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, The reigner was once perfect from creation. The human prince is not perfect from our birth, we become sinning from birth, because of something wrong with our human nature. This reigner was created perfect. Until the cherub became sinning. Humans are never living this this, humans are born more or less sinning, because of our nature our flesh is prone to sinning from birth. So this passage is speaking of the birth and living of cherubims, not humans. Both creatures are different in regards to our living perfectly. Eze 28:16 ..thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God This cherub sinned while inside the mountain of God, not sinned while on the earth, again you are making a wrong assumption. Never was a human sinning inside the mountain of God. " Where is this "mountain of God" Dave? ----------------------------------- Dave" The plurality of God has always been a Jewish teachings Professor Juilian SUmmer: One nature, three persons, YHWH's fluidity The Lord is One, not three. Hos 11:9 Isiah 43:10-11 I am He. ROb" OK Dave, answer this one verse, given to me by the Lord with extra hindsight, this week:- Ge 3:22 And the YHWH elohiym said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: Jews say the "us" refers to angels, has to be incorrect, because Angels do not know evil. The verse says mankind has become ADAM elohiym knowing both good and evil, but as a creature, creatures have to sin against God in order to know evil. YHWH Elohiym is also elohiym knowing good and evil, but has never sinned in order to know evil. Notice Adam elohiym does not contain one person, but two persons, a masculine lover and a feminine lover. The child like lover would come later from the parents. The verse clearly explains the YHWH Elohiym is a family of divine persons. Jews term this "multiple gods", in English but in Hebrew you cannot term this as "multiple elohiym's" such a term is not used for even pagan descriptions. The Hebrew words "el" "eloah" and "elohiym" as well as "shadday" and "YHWH" do not mean "multiple gods". You can have more than one "el" however, this means more than one "Strong Authority", not "multiple gods". The word "el" does not mean "god", as the only word meaning for all verses of context, is "strong authority". De 6:4 ¶ Hear <shama`>, O Israel <Yisra'el>: The LORD <Y@hovah> our God <'elohiym> is one <'echad> LORD <Y@hovah>: Nowhere does this say that there are multiple elohiyms in heaven until the term YHWH Elohiym. Isa 45:5 ¶ I am the LORD <Y@hovah>, and there is none else, there is no God <'elohiym> beside <zuwlah> me: Again there is only ONE YHWH elohiym power mentioned in the torah, and ROB agrees with this idea. One eloah One Shadday One YHWH These are three strong authories, as we see them referenced as "el" eloah has el already in the term el shadday And in Luke 1:35 all three strong authorities are mentioned in the context of birthing the "Son of MAN, into the Son of GOD". It is the best verse explaining the heavenly parents. Other verses do so too. But the best one in the OT, I give to Dave just. Gen 3:22 The YHWH ELohiym said to Adam elohiym, now they have become like us, knowing good and evil.... Rob PP" In Ephesians Paul describes elohiym as a family and this picture solves all the problems for anyone wanting to understand elohiym. But Dave does not like this idea.Dave" – NOT A FAMILY OF THREE DIFFERENT GODS – THREE DIFFERENT BEINGSRob" The word "el" does not mean "god" and your other term "different gods" is never a Hebrew term, so you are playing a word game that does not exist in the Bible. You cannot make "el" into different "elohiym powers", is no such concept in the Bible anywhere. That is like saying the President is able to make powers in the USA all by himself, is wrong. For the Congress also makes the powers of the President a power, hence the term "elohiym" exists in the USA system, nobody can make independent powers. A judge as a single "el" might be able to, under the term "elohiym", so I try to discuss your reasoning as honestly as I can Dave. -------------------------- Your picture of the Father is interesting Outside of Creation, Larger than our universe with two hands coming in, as a smaller revelation the the Father, the left hand and the right hand. tabernacling with humans on earth, as a smaller entity. "How big is GOD? the song goes.... His big enough to rule the mighty universe and yet small enough to live within my heart". Dave" the serpent deceived Eve The choice was hersROb" How can you say the serpent deceived Eve, but the choice to be deceived was hers? This is correct. But my point is the serpent deceived Eve with making sinning of His own, deception is a sin, in my view. 2 Corinthians 11:3 But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. So our thoughts lead us to make sinning actions. But you are saying the humans always has a choice, and the Opposer cannot remove your free will to choose. This is also correct. But the Opposer leads you astray by his cunning.... not some weak influence, but by his cunning... arum ... nature. Dave" No one can oppose God – it is not a scriptural teachingROb" I would agree to this, as a technical idea. A creature cannot oppose a Creator using creature power. But I am talking about relationships Dave. The human and the lamb, is a relationship. Such relationships have food, clothing, milk and cheese all supplied by relationship, domestication . The lost coin. Make only sense in a relationship to humans. COins exchange services and good between humans, so the relationship makes the money bartering system work. The lost son, again is about relationships. The son was not opposing the Father, but breaking relationship for a time. After a while the son returns to restoring relationship with the Father. And you say when creatures break relationship the Father does not react? He watches and waits and runs towards you arms open.... Again it's about relationship. The word chata means to miss relationship. It is also technically about transgressing the laws of love. But in a primary focus it about missing the Father's powers of love flowing in your life. Can opposers oppose this flow? Yes, any humans can experience this. And thus we become opposers. Even God's messenger became an opposer, wanting to stop a flow of bad things from Balaam. The Chief Opposer also is about making the flow from the Father less and less. ANd about His own powers to flow more and more. What powers are these? Powers of sin. And the chief opposer said, Lu 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. 7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. Clearly the Opposer has power given to him from the Father and clearly the Opposer claims to give this power to anybody the Opposer wants to give it. Even Jesus was offered an easy way out, by worshipping the opposing elohiym power, but Jesus refused. Dave" Acts 13:10 Paul is speaking to ‘Elymas the magician’ Elymas the magician makes crooked paths Man makes crooked pathsRob" And where does this powers come from Dave? Lu 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: f or that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.The Opposer gives these powers to ‘Elymas the magician’. DO you agree with this idea? Re 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: Same idea, the Opposer can give powers to anyone it wishes to give powers to.... DO you agree with this idea? Dave" Jesus is not God – He is the Son of man – 100% human biology It is the job of the opposer to oppose all the world – including human Jesus But Christ answer claiming to be God incarnateROb" Do I understand you correctly? You say Jesus was not GOD, only claining to be GOD incarnate? My understanding is the SON of GOD was processed with human birth from His heavenly parents with a body subject to sinning like humans have, as also the SON of MAN. So in my view Jesus is fully divine and fully human. Both natures existed inside Him all the time. Dave" YES – I believe scripture 100% - God calls for a genocyde of the 7 tribes of Amorite – the Sons of Anak – the post Flood Nephilim / Rephiem – beginning with all of the inhabitants of Jericho save RahabROb" SO why wasn't Rahab killed along with the others of her kind? Isn't she also a daughter of Anak, Amorite and thus a Nephilim? Something wrong with your theory? In my view Rabah was saved, and God waited 400 years to save the only human that could be saved, the time came for removing the probation of living from all the others, still living, but refusing salvation. One cannot wound a human, but God can remove his breath of life from a human, if they no longer seek His salvation. Their conscience is seared with a hot iron. God's strange act. I do not see GOD breaking his commandments at all. It would be a terribe thing to allow living in humans who do not wish to live under God. Dave" NOPE – was NOT ALLOWED TO EVEN TEMPT Mat 4:7 Yeshua said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put Adonai your God to the test.’” ROb" You are misquoting Scripture Dave. Nu 14:22 Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice; Here GOD was tempted ten times by Israel's breaking faith. The context is about breaking faith. It is a presumption of power to use a faith promise for personal gain, is what Jesus is referring to here. Turning stones into bread, is a faith power, we can ask but should not, otherwise it is presumptuous. If Jesus could not be tempted to sin, the Opposer could argue the contest was unfair. Ge 3:15 RobPP" Revelation 2:10 Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Wow, the Opposer throwns humans into prison.Dave does not answer. This proves the Opposer is opposing GOD, causing humans to be thrown into prison. Dave" only that the archon oppose manROb" Only man Hmmm? Lu 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. 7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, ROb" SO only a human is being spoken to here? You say the archons are agents of RA, but do not sin, so this is an oxymoron to me, a terrible contradiction. "All this power I will give to you" ? Where does this power come from ? The Father. How else could the Father set up the demonstration of sinning except this way on earth, as a world of SIN.Only a sinning elohiym power could be saying this here, not a natural creature as some agent of RA. By the way if the creatures of RA are natural, how come they have not died yet? Dave" Because they are made with some matter – they belong in matter – oil and water do not mix – neither does matter and heavenROb" That's funny Jesus is in heaven, Enoch is in heaven, Elijah is in heaven, all as biological humans...matter and heaven mix just fine?? Dave" 1Co 15:50 Now I say this, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and what decays cannot inherit what does not decay. ROb" Yes, biological errors, DNA corruption, AVEN genes with RA propensities, all are NOT allowed in heaven, correct. But you expand this is, to include the whole biological system is not allowed in heaven, is bogus. Dave" Many – many other elohiym powersROb" I do not see this idea Dave. Many different ways to market deception as a power, from the same Chief Opposer and his buddies of RA. ---------------------- ROB PP " Question: How is knowing both good and evil, helpful to Adam and Eve?
Dave" 1) God foreknew this would happen – allowed it to happen – to reveal His Plan of Salvation 2) the benefit to man = once we know death – we can appreciate John 3:16 and the amazing Gift of Grace extendedRob" OK 1) How is knowing death useful to know about living forever? 2) You are saying I must smoke inorder to experience the health harm from smoking. This idea is false. I have never actively smoked, so I do not need to smoke. I have never actively drunk alcohol either to get drunk. Must I get drunk in order to experience true living? Must I have sex with many women to lust, in order to live a life without whoredom? Is any of this necessary? Must I drink coffee in order to experience this high so I can experience living with a high? I do not your need. I can experience living with God as my high and my love does not require to experience such RA things as you claim. Not necessary. The other son did not need to waste his inheritance, only the prodigal son did. Who is better? The one son who never sinned, or the son who sinned but returned to the Father? Which experiences love more? Answer this question? The sinless Son exclaimed, you never made a party over me, but look at the son who wasted your love, you lavish over? I doubt the returning Son would love His Father more than the sinless Son. The experience of Sin is not necessary to make love better. I think this is a myth. Though it is interesting to ponder the idea. Often a drunkard becomes a more passionate believer than a pious believer who never sinned much, but than, do we understand all their is about salvation by faith? I would love to test this idea among humans about faith. Dave" NO – sinning is transgressing God’s commandmentsROb" I see, and not opposing the GOD who wrote His commands? Chata means to miss. Peshs means to transgress. Chata is about missing the Father's power in your life, not really primarily about transgressing laws.
The relationship comes first, than the laws of transgression. FIrst you have to let go of GOD. RObPP" Lots of things began to die and die immediately.Dave" Where is your scripture for this?ROb" 1) they became naked that day \ lost the full covered of light by the HS 2) they are both fearful of GOD visiting them \ lost the love in the relationship 3) creation lost connection to God \ ground cursed, weeds, thorns, Entropy came 4) condemnation - a court ruling \ a change of prince over earth "from Adam to Serpent" These are some of the Bible evidence I see. Things "died" immediately. This depends upon how you define death. In my view death is a separation from GOD. Dave" Correct – the archon oppose manROb" If the Opposer was humble, it would not have rose in self exaltation over God's claim on Job as "tom". The Opposer was not looking out for God or Job, not saying "wow, how nice , another human is saved"? Dave" This is a correct statement – the archon have no conscious – no guiltROb" If they have no guilt or conscious, then they are enemies which Jesus came to destroy. -------------------- Dave" Why do you deny the New Testament? Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers (archon / Principalities / shedim / devils and satan), against the powers, against the worldly forces of this darkness, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created—in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen, whether thrones or angelic powers or rulers or authorities (archon / Principalities / shedim / devils and satanas). All was created through Him and for Him. ROb" Hmm? so GOD created the arum creatures on purpose to test the human will of man?
Dave" Joh 1:3 All things were made through Him, and apart from Him nothing was made that has come into being.Rob" And this includes sin and agents of SIN. But Dave only goes so far as to say agents of RA, but not SIN, ignorant sins, but not morally sinning like humans do. Le 4:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them: That's funny, ignorance is a sin according to the torah. So is making a false report. And lying And deceiving others. Dave" This should be your second clue that you follow an empty teachingROb" NO Dave, I want to know why others in my church do not understand faith like God revealed it to me? Why the church leaders never sought why the manna falls in Africa SDA village, the SDA Pastors do not investigate why these people have faith, but the Adventist Pastor has no faith. As for the rest of the world, do they also understand faith and what faith really is. The Messanic Jews says amanuah is trust? It is more than trusting God. ------------------ Dave" YES – there is an arum factor involved – the archon are smarter than us – more crafty than we are – they are the most arum of all animals (man included)
YES – the archon out-smart us – trick us – play games with us – toy with usRob" And in all this the arum creatures do not morally sin themselves? 1) How come the arum creatures have not died yet? Obviously they are not natural creatures. 2) How come these arum creatures seem to sin (deceive, lie and murder) but these things are not moral sins according to Dave? Dave" Gnostic says – if man turns to God – who will sacrifice to the archon pretender godsROb" Why are the arum creatures only pretend elohiym powers? Surely they must know both good and evil? Yet according to Dave, such an elohiym power does not sin. Than it's not a elohiym power is if does not know good and evil. How do creatures know sin? Only by sinning. I do not know of creatures designed to be RA from design. But Dave says yes, the termites do RA, the baboons do RA, the lions eats Zebra, doing RA. My view is these creatures became agents of RA after mankind SINNED, not before man sinned. If your arum creatures are natural, how come they have died yet naturally? Proof they are not natural? Dave" Who can oppose God – NO ONE!ROb" Than why can't GOD rescue ALL humans. including Hitler, and Stalin ? And why are both humans and shedim thrown into the Lake of Fire? WHy can't God resuce them, these creatures must oppose GOD, in terms of relationship. RIchard posted " AGREE
You have very successfully shown that satanas, the devil, the serpent, the BEAST, the dragon – the ARCHON oppose man in many ways YES – there is an arum factor involved – the archon are smarter than us – more crafty than we are – they are the most arum of all animals (man included) YES – the archon out-smart us – trick us – play games with us – toy with us
ROb" Than why can't GOD rescue ALL humans. including Hitler, and Stalin ? And why are both humans and shedim thrown into the Lake of Fire? WHy can't God resuce them, these creatures must oppose GOD, in terms of relationship. in terms of absolute power, no creature can oppose a divine Creator. The reason for free will, is so creatures can oppose their Creator, in terms of relationship. Therefore if the arum creatures are creatures thrown into the Lake of Fire, they must also have free will, to oppose God in relationship, just as the humans also oppose God in relationship. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 7, 2023 20:07:14 GMT -5
Dave" Jesus called satanas - Beelzebub The teaching of Jesus has nothing to do with Hebrew satan and everything to do with the Beast of Revelation and his army of archon Rob" I see. This teaching is based on that Greek was the primary language describing Jesus conversations with Jews. You are introducing a NT torah that is totally different to the OT torah. 1) Correct – you must deny the NT Gospel and the words of Jesus Christ to maintain Ellen White as a prophet.
You say you do not understated how to amunah (support) God – why do you think denying scripture will help you find your way?
2) Correct Jesus Christ called satanas Beelzebub – who was another god of the Levant – the King of the other gods of the Levant
3) Correct – the fact that you are even willing to mock Jesus Christ and the Gospel speak of your satanic background and message -----------------------------------------
Dave" The Beast cannot destroy man’s Free Will Rob" I see. So when a human is fully possessed by a demon,, that human can still free himself using free will? Nope – usually it is a trap
I don't think so, going by the large number of trapped victims that Jesus freed.
YEP – there on purpose – to reveal God’s Glory and the Christ
Sure I agree the humans are free to choose God, but they are also free to choose the demon elohiym power.
Correct – the archon cannot possess you unless you invite them in – your choice ------------------------
1Ki 18:24 And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the LORD: and the God that answereth by fire, let him be God. And all the people answered and said, It is well spoken. Here were two elohiym powers both according to humans were "gods of thunder and fire".
1Ki 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him.
The Creator and Baal / the devil /a satanas / a serpent – of the BEAST
One True God – and one created being pretending to be --------------------------------
Rob PP" Now God says to Himself, I must test this free will and so intentionally creates a flawed world with arum creatures to make mankind love the world and it's temporary idols, all for what? Just to develop free will, with what, a knowledge of sin?
Who teaches this – only in your imagination Why do you deny the NT teaching of the Prodigal Son? You sure have to deny a lot of scripture – too much scripture – to be an Ellen White follower Evidently you have made your choice between Ellen White and Jesus Christ and His Gospel --------------------------------
DAVE" Who teaches this? – only in your imagination? You invent a falsehood – just so you can argue against it and one very big reason why our conversations go nowhere Rob" I see. Than write how you see your theory than. Explain the need to develop free will, and why sinning is even required to develop free will, when you have no creatures that even sinned. Free Will is the choice between God and World It is your choice God loves you so much – he will let you go – let you choose You are Free to choose World Or you are Free to choose God
If no creature ever sinned, I cannot see why God would have to develop and test free will in the first place?
Correct – if man was a robot programmed to obey Does a robot love? Does a robot appreciate God?
(google) Someone once said this quote, “If you love someone, let them go. If they return, they were always yours. If they don't, they never were.”
The NT Gospel teaches the concept of the lost sheep – the lost being found – the saga of the Prodigal Son Evidently – you have not been taught this Grace – all you know is that satan rebels, hates, and opposes God -------------------------------
Can you explain this? If man is the first and only creature with free will according to you, why is there a need to develop and test free will?
God knows all – He is Omniscient – God knew exactly what would happen – do you trust man?
God knew Eve would sin – and he allowed it to happen so that He could reveal His Glory via the Salvation of man.
After all no creature has ever sinned and disobeyed GOD. In my theory of faith, I do not need to answer such a question, because God is love.
Correct – you have a Catholic feel Good God that nevr cause any harm No matter how much scripture you have to deny to make is so
In your faith of faith, you have no sin in your world, until the humans sinned, after God intentionally made arum creatures to test the human free will.
Correct – I am a Christian and I believe scripture
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
What happened before the Law was not counted as sin Sin and death entered the world via man ---------------------------------------
Dave" Each morning as I wake – I am overwhelmed to tears with God’s creation – the beauty – the complicated intricacies – the interwoven web of life As I drive down the road – I am amazed at His Glory At night – here in Colorado we often see the Milky Way and a sky painted with starts Romans 1-19-20 I am in awe of the Lord You call it a flawed world and blame it all on your satan Rob" I do NOT call our world a flawed world, only a SINNING world, created perfectly by GOD by spoiled by SINNING.
First you demand a statement – then deny it
Rob PP" Now God says to Himself, I must test this free will and so intentionally creates a flawed world with arum creatures to make mankind love the world and it's temporary idols, all for what? Just to develop free will, with what, a knowledge of sin?
Who teaches this – only in your imagination Why do you teach that God’s creation is flawed – I DO NOT It is perfectly fine tuned to support life as a demonstration of the one and Only Intelligent designer – Rom 1:19-20 Just more of the Gospel you must deny Why do you deny the NT teaching of the Prodigal Son? ---------------------------------------
You do not have in your world any real sinning that I see. Eve disobeying God and eating of the fruit is not sin? Now what type of religious gobbelty gook are you trying to sell? ------------------------------------
Your archons do not sin, and mankind has as a natural inclination to do yester ra, so you do not have any sinning or rebellion against God. And in your theory natural death, natural decomposition existed from the beginning. I suppose rain and snow also existed in your theory too.
I am the author of The Fluid Dynamics of Whole Earth Decompression Theory (FD-WEDT)
YOUR DELIBERATE DISRESPECT IS GETTING REALLY OLD Christian? --------------------- Dave" My Gnostic teaching is the same teaching as mainstream Christianity – you are the one that is on the outside protesting the truth Rob" Really? Most religions teach the soul lives in heaven straight away upon leaving the body, so you might be right, but this does not mean the majority equals truth.
Correct – the whole world all through history must be error for Ellen White’s teaching to stand
Dave's Video "This one line in the Bible REVEALS God's reason for CREATION Rabbi says bara also means to reveal? Really?
YEP – you want to play word games – Jews cannot know their own teaching
And which Bible text does the Rabbi quote? Not a single one? If we quote scripture – you claim we have no faith If he speaks for his heart as to a lay person – you say he has no scripture You can invent as many excuses as you want – not to believe – as always the choice is yours – it is called Free Will
"God created the world so HE would be known". I see. To reveal His power and Glory – Agree It was all created by Him for Him (col 1:16) But you have to deny this NT scripture also so Ellen White’s Gospel stands -------------------------
2Pe 3:8 But don’t forget this one thing, loved ones, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like one day. 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise, as some consider slowness. Rather, He is being patient toward you—not wanting anyone to perish, but for all to come to repentance.
Dave" This is a message of hope for many if not all ROb" well said Dave
Too bad it is not your teaching ----------------------------------------
Dave" Do not need an opposer god The Contest is between man the the world + man and the archon – Gen 3:15 Rob" I see. Explain these words from this verse than Lu 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. 7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. This message spoken by the Opposer proves much about the Opposer's existence and intent.
YEP - opposing man – tempting man – and jesus was 100% man just like you and men – tested to the max – more than you could bear But Christ spoke up and claimed to be God incarnate (Son of God) ------------------------------------------
Who delivered the world unto the Opposer? The Father did. Why? Because Adam sinned transferring from one prince (adam) to another prince (Satan)
Sorry Robert – the BEAST has been witin creation since Gen 1:2 the creation of matter
Ro 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, Condemnation is a court word used by a judge when something happens. In this case when Adam sinned adam lost his crown to rule earth as a prince. "All this power will I give you, and their glory, for it was delievered unto me"
YEP – all the devil has to offer is the World – all the power the Beast has over the World is the only thing he has to offer Correct – the Beast is the king of physical reality – matter is his kingdom
Now tell me this isn't an opposer opposing God and taking earth creation from God. And it's not ignorance either. "delivered unto me" is not an ignorance statement.
NOPE – not ignorance just fact
Jesus came to take back the kingdom of earth, by dying the death all humans have to die, in order to regain the right to be prince over the earth. Hence the reason Jesus was hung upon the pole. "Look unto me, all ye ends of the earth" Jesus said.
Yep – I accept Dispensation Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. -----------------------
Dave" Scripture says – sin entered the world through man Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned. Rob" Yes, death came to humans, because humans sinned.
This verse does not say other creatures could have sinned, only talks about humans sinning.
“ sin entered the world”
Eze 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God: God's message to the prince human about sinning happens in the second verse already, YEP it is about man
Eze 28:10 Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: This human prince is to die a certain way… YEP it is about man
Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Now we have a different Hebrew word, a reigner of Tyre. Just your word game - it is about man
Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God I don't see the prince of Tyre old enough to have also lived in Eden, but this reigner is old enough. Man was present in the garden – you just deny the spirit
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; This cherub walked in the holy mountain of God, somewhere in heaven way beyond earth.... so you also say some human achieved this? I don't think so?
YEP – God created man for the relationship We were all created on Day 1 – along with all the spiritual (host) Deny away – you have much practices
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, The reigner was once perfect from creation. The human prince is not perfect from our birth, we become sinning from birth, because of something wrong with our human nature. This reigner was created perfect.
Correct Eve was PERFECT – until she chose to transgress God’s commandment
Humans are never living this this, humans are born more or less sinning, because of our nature our flesh is prone to sinning from birth.
I do not agree we are born sinning Although man is born perfect – soon material needs of this world drive (yester ra) to step up and demand survival – FEED ME!
So this passage is speaking of the birth and living of cherubims, not humans. Both creatures are different in regards to our living perfectly.
Sorry Robert – the Beast appeared in a plurality ready to devour Again – you must deny the NT Gospel of Jesus Christ How does denying the word of God helpful in your effort to support God with your faith?
Eze 28:16 ..thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God This cherub sinned while inside the mountain of God, not sinned while on the earth, again you are making a wrong assumption. Never was a human sinning inside the mountain of God. "Where is this "mountain of God" Dave? Creation Sin – without repentance = The Second Death – the Lake of Fire – death of spirit ----------------------------------
Dave" The plurality of God has always been a Jewish teachings Professor Juilian SUmmer: One nature, three persons, YHWH's fluidity The Lord is One, not three. Hos 11:9 Isiah 43:10-11 I am He. OK Dave, answer this one verse, given to me by the Lord with extra hindsight, this week:-
Ge 3:22 And the YHWH elohiym said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: Jews say the "us" refers to angels, has to be incorrect, because Angels do not know evil.
I have no idea where you or why you make up this crap – Christian
Mainstream Christianity = Trinity The ‘us = the Trinity
Gnostic – I have absolutely no issue with God delegating a task -------------------------
The verse clearly explains the YHWH Elohiym is a family of divine persons. Jews term this "multiple gods", in English but in Hebrew you cannot term this as "multiple elohiym's" such a term is not used for even pagan descriptions.
Then why do you argue for it?
The Hebrew words "el" "eloah" and "elohiym" as well as "shadday" and "YHWH" do not mean "multiple gods". You can have more than one "el" however, this means more than one "Strong Authority", not "multiple gods".
Then why do you teach it?
Nowhere does this say that there are multiple elohiyms in heaven until the term YHWH Elohiym.
Then why do you teach it?
Isa 45:5 ¶ I am the LORD <Y@hovah>, and there is none else, there is no God <'elohiym> beside <zuwlah> me: Again there is only ONE YHWH elohiym power mentioned in the torah, and ROB agrees with this idea. One eloah One Shadday One YHWH = 3 Robert – Sorry – there is only one God
And in Luke 1:35 all three strong authorities are mentioned in the context of birthing the "Son of MAN, into the Son of GOD". It is the best verse explaining the heavenly parents. Other verses do so too. But the best one in the OT, I give to Dave just. Gen 3:22 The YHWH ELohiym said to Adam elohiym, now they have become like us, knowing good and evil.... Rob PP" In Ephesians Paul describes elohiym as a family and this picture solves all the problems for anyone wanting to understand elohiym.
A family = more than one A singularity is NOT a family
But Dave does not like this idea. Dave" – NOT A FAMILY OF THREE DIFFERENT GODS – THREE DIFFERENT BEINGS
Correct you teach here thay Christ and God cannot be the same – because Jesus Christ prayed to the Father in heaven Correct – you teach Christ died on the Cross – but God didn’t die Correct – you absolutely deny the spirit – so the HS has to be a separate entity Correct – the family must be multiple individuals so love can exist between them
You see – I do listen to you -------------------------
Your picture of the Father is interesting Outside of Creation, Larger than our universe with two hands coming in, as a smaller revelation the the Father, the left hand and the right hand.
I admit it – its not mine. It came from a Jewish Children’s book about the flood of Noah – It represents the concept of Right and left Hands.
Does God have Right and left hands – NO but scripture indicates that – creation – instruction – and salvation is by the Right Hand - who sits on the Right hand = Christ - male
Scripture also suggest that the left hand is the hand of correction / punishment and mystery – the HS - female
The father Creator – is unimaginable – beyond our reality – larger than creation – His Face that no man can see ---------------------------------------
tabernacling with humans on earth, as a smaller entity.
YES – this a a 5000 year old Jewish parade Sukkot- with two separate celebrations – the Feast of Tabernacles God does dwell with man – twice Jews say – once in a tent (skin)– and once in a Temple Christians say – once in a building and once in a man (skin)
You argue long and hard that this is not possible God incarnate – God in the Temple --------------------------
"How big is GOD? the song goes.... His big enough to rule the mighty universe and yet small enough to live within my heart".
Now your getting it But not the man Jesus – that is impossible you say
Dave" the serpent deceived Eve The choice was hers ROb" How can you say the serpent deceived Eve, but the choice to be deceived was hers? This is correct.
Not what I said and you know it – Mr Honest ---------------------------
But my point is the serpent deceived Eve with making sinning of His own, deception is a sin, in my view.
Your view does not matter – only scripture is truth
No one can oppose God – it is not a scriptural teaching ROb" I would agree to this, as a technical idea.
Technical smechnical – it is the truth --------------------------------------------
But I am talking about relationships Dave. Yes – the archon get in our way of having a strong relationship with the HS
It is also techically about transgressing the laws of love. But in a primary focus it about missing the Father's powers of love flowing in your life.
YEP – and transgressing God’s laws
Can opposers oppose this flow? Yes, any humans can experience this.
YEP – the archon oppose man
The Chief Opposer also is about making the flow from the Father less and less.
ABSOLUTE SATAN TALK – rejected with attitude!
Dave" Acts 13:10 Paul is speaking to ‘Elymas the magician’ Elymas the magician makes crooked paths Man makes crooked paths Rob" And where does this powers come from Dave?
Man does not need t be possessed bu your satan to be greedy, delirious, wantenous Man does not need to be possessed by your satan to sin Man is perfectly capable of acting on his own (yester ra)
Lu 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. The Opposer gives these powers to ‘Elymas the magician’. DO you agree with this idea?
1) if Elymas is a charlatan – a con man – the the power came from his own (yester ra) finding a way to survive 2) if Elymas really does do magic – then those powers would come from the archon
Re 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: Same idea, the Opposer can give powers to anyone it wishes to give powers to.... DO you agree with this idea?
Man cannot be possessed – unless he invites the demons in Dr Faust asked for it straight out-smart Many in entertainment and Hollywood admit they asked for it -----------------------
Dave" YES – I believe scripture 100% - God calls for a genocyde of the 7 tribes of Amorite – the Sons of Anak – the post Flood Nephilim / Rephiem – beginning with all of the inhabitants of Jericho save Rahab ROb" SO why wasn't Rahab killed along with the others of her kind? Isn't she also a daughter of Anak, Amorite and thus a Nephilim? Something wrong with your theory? 1) she was saved because she believed 2) if she was a Nephilim she would NOT give the spies refuge
Dave" NOPE – was NOT ALLOWED TO EVEN TEMPT Mat 4:7 Yeshua said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put Adonai your God to the test.’”
Mat 4:7 Jesus said to him again, 'It hath been written, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.' Mat 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Mat 4:7 Jesus said unto him, Again it is written, Thou shalt not make trial of the Lord thy God.
Which version do you prefer? Jesus Christ = Jesus (Son of Man) + Christ (the Son of God) Jesus 100% animal (man with his yester ra) + Christ (The image of God) 100% divine You deny the spirit ----------------------------
Nu 14:22 Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice; Here GOD was tempted ten times by Israel's breaking faith. The context is about breaking faith. It is a presumption of power to use a faith promise for personal gain, is what Jesus is referring to here.
Num 14:22 none of the people who saw My glory and My miraculous signs I performed in Egypt and in the wilderness—yet tested Me these ten times and did not obey My Voice— Num 14:23 not one of them will see the land I promised to their forefathers. None of those who treated Me with contempt will see it!
These people who mistakenly thought they could oppose God all died Could they oppose God – NO – they tried but only committed suicide – spiritual sucide
ROb" That's funny Jesus is in heaven, Enoch is in heaven, Elijah is in heaven, all as biological humans...matter and heaven mix just fine?? Dave" 1Co 15:50 Now I say this, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and what decays cannot inherit what does not decay. ROb" Yes, biological errors, DNA corruption,
You just deny the spiritual – and have to rewrite scripture to support your view ------------------------
Dave" Many – many other elohiym powers ROb" I do not see this idea Dave.
Correct you deny a large section of the OT – those other gods, shedim, and demons were all imagunary ----------------------
You are saying I must smoke inorder to experience the health harm from smoking. This idea is false. I have never actively smoked, so I do not need to smoke. I have never actively drunk alcohol either to get drunk. Must I get drunk in order to experience true living? Must I have sex with many women to lust, in order to live a life without whoredom? Is any of this necessary? Must I drink coffee in order to experience this high so I can experience living with a high? I do not your need.
So intelligent – keep inventing whatever you need to protect your satan as a God and Ellen White as his prophet
-------------------- Dave" Why do you deny the New Testament? Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers (archon / Principalities / shedim / devils and satan), against the powers, against the worldly forces of this darkness, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created—in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen, whether thrones or angelic powers or rulers or authorities (archon / Principalities / shedim / devils and satanas). All was created through Him and for Him. ROb" Hmm? so GOD created the arum creatures on purpose to test the human will of man.
What does this NT scripture say?
Dave" Joh 1:3 All things were made through Him, and apart from Him nothing was made that has come into being. Rob" And this includes sin and agents of SIN.
I am done with you Mr satan boy I have tried to be patient – but your denial of scripture is just too much to stomach
If you post here again it better be academically serious or I will will ignore you
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Post by rob on Sept 8, 2023 6:33:10 GMT -5
Greetings Dave Dave" Correct – you must deny the NT Gospel and the words of Jesus Christ Rob: If you study www.eaglefeather.org/series/Ancient%20Culture%20Series/Was%20the%20New%20Testament%20Really%20Written%20in%20Greek.pdfyou will find the primary language of the apostles was hebrew, that Jesus spoke Hebrew and the NT torah was orginally written in Hebrew. This verse says Ho 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth. Jesus comes to the humans as the former rain and latter rain, meaning both torah writings must agree with each other. RobPP" If no creature ever sinned, I cannot see why God would have to develop and test free will in the first place?Dave" Correct – if man was a robot programmed to obey Does a robot love? Does a robot appreciate God?ROb" Well your angels have no problem loving the Lord as a robot, why make mankind differently? It's your problem, explaining your theory. So try again, you did not explain my question to you. Dave" God knows all – He is Omniscient – God knew exactly what would happen – do you trust man? God knew Eve would sin – and he allowed it to happen so that He could reveal His Glory via the Salvation of man.Rob" Your God must be selfish and sick to want to make billions of humans suffer, just to bring in some magnificent but torturous manner of love, just to rescue humans from sin, a condition invented by God and his testing natural creatures? I do not see love in your theory at all. Why couldn't God just forgive the human sin, without this dying and death thing? Dave" No matter how much scripture you have to deny to make is soRob" I do not deny any Scripture to make this so. But you do at least two scriptures. so far. 1) the cherub sinned Ezek 28: 26 2) the devils sin like humans sin 1John3:8 RobPP" In your faith of faith, you have no sin in your world, until the humans sinned, after God intentionally made arum creatures to test the human free will.Dave" Correct – I am a Christian and I believe scriptureROb" You also therefore have no other elohiym powers before the Father's face. You used to say they were the beast arum creatures, but these creatures do not morally sin, so do not really understand morally good or evil, they are just natural creatures living thousands and thousands of years, without dying, sounds really weird to me. So you do not have any true opposing elohiym power, so your understanding of the moral laws is false Exodus 20:1 have no other elohiym before my face. You are denying Scripture, not me. By the way, I have yet to understand a natural creature living over 4,000 years and still doing arum things to man. Dave" Why do you teach that God’s creation is flawed – I DO NOTROb" I do not call God's creation flawed, you do Your theory has God creating with matter embedded with RA and Entropy in it. My theory has God creating with matter that is perfect, without Entropy, chaos or RA. Your theory has everything as it is now, natural death, decomposition and lions eating zebra all along, designed that way from the beginning. My theory has God creating a perfect creation with all animals as herbivores, no natural death, no seasons, no rain and no snow, all beautiful and perfectly ordered. RObPP" You do not have in your world any real sinning that I see.Dave" Eve disobeying God and eating of the fruit is not sin? Now what type of religious gobbled gook are you trying to sell? ROb" Eve was listening to her yester ra within her and the serpent sounded real arum to her own natural desires. and she took up her mission to enter the lower world. This view of yours is totally different to my view, in which the serpent was sinning in order to make Eve sin so easily and rapidly that day. But you deny the serpent can morally sin, at all. Dave" YEP – you want to play word games – Jews cannot know their own teachingRob" How easy would it be to quote the OT torah? Dave" If he speaks for his heart as to a lay person – you say he has no scripture You can invent as many excuses as you want – Rob" I say, if they speak not from the torah, there is no light of dawn in them, Isaiah 9. Dave" Sorry Robert – the BEAST has been witin creation since Gen 1:2 the creation of matterRob" explain the verse than Lu 4:6 All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. How can natural arum creatures have power to give to humans ? Where did this power come from? Whomsoever I will give it, means the devils can give powers to whoever they like...? ------------ Dave" Man was present in the garden – you just deny the spiritRob" OH, so the spirit of Tyre is 3,000 years old, and the body of Tyre is 30 years old, but that is OK to you?
Dave" Deny away – you have much practicesRob" OH so the spirits of man all walked in heaven among the mountain of God, and later came to earth in bodies, with spirits really old in very young bodies of clay. How nice you have such a complex arrangement for the soul of man. Dave" I do not agree we are born sinningRob" Wow, I do not believe we are born sinning either However inside the womb listening to parents, etc, all humans become sinning from the womb, soon after birth, unless empowered by the Nazite vow where the HS empowers you with special virtue. Dave" Sorry Robert – the Beast appeared in a plurality ready to devourROb" like your Rabbi term "YHWH fluidity. ---------------- Dave" Sorry – there is only one GodROb" Well than there is only one Adam too, when He sinned, knowing good and evil. You cannot have your debate both ways. (the word Adam also included Adam and Eve) Gen 3:22 The YHWH ELohiym said to Adam elohiym, now they have become like us, knowing good and evil.... Dave" A family = more than one A singularity is NOT a familyRob" How wrong you are. Family is singularity. The wifes nakedness is the husband's body. Le 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness. You are wrong, family defined by GOD is truly singularity. Dave" You see – I do listen to youRob " you do? Dave" THREE DIFFERENT BEINGSROb" I would say three different personalities of loving, but of the same being. Adam and Eve are not two beings, they are of one being, the human kind, with two different personalities of loving. The gender male and gender female of a creature kind are not two different beings, but the same being, each with different personalities of loving. Dave" I admit it – its not mine. It came from a Jewish Children’s book about the flood of Noah – ROb" It's nice as a picture. Dave" The father Creator – is unimaginable – beyond our reality – larger than creation – His Face that no man can seeROb" Nice Dave" Your view does not matter – only scripture is truthRob" You have said many times the Beast is a false elohiym power, cannot be true, because false elohiym powers have to be sinning in order to know good and evil. A designed arum creature cannot KNOW (Gnosis) good and evil, such creatures only do what they do as robots, without moral consequences of their actions. So you are flip flop over your terms, either you have no elohiym powers, or you do. You cannot have a designed creature naturally doing RA. Such a creature might do RA, but cannot KNOW (Gnosis) good and evil. One has to be able to discern the good and thus avoid the good, while making the evil appear good, what arum means. SO in my view, if there are other elohiym powers, than Eve was made to sin by watching the serpent sin Himself. RobPP" The Chief Opposer also is about making the flow from the Father less and less.Dave" ABSOLUTE SATAN TALK – rejected with attitude!Rob" OK than your serpent cannot be a false elohiym power than, because such a term requires the creature to be able to gnosis both good and evil, hence has to have free will in order to sin, the only natural way creatures know both good and evil. A natural creature of arum, as a agent of RA, cannot also be a natural creature of TOV, thus is unable to know both TOV and RA. Only free will with the ability to SIN will fit this definition of elohiym, knowing good and evil, as Jeff Benner explains. So you have just said your beast serpent power is NOT a false elohiym power. YOur theory has no elohiym power, and therefore no agent of SIN. ----------------- Dave" Man does not need t be possessed bu your satan to be greedy, delirious, wantenous Man does not need to be possessed by your satan to sin Man is perfectly capable of acting on his own (yester ra)ROb" That is another theme Dave. I am asking you, where did the power come from?
Ac 13:10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, Also Re 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: Where does the power come from? That is my question to you. The magican and the beast are both humans, but where does their RA, SIN actions come from, as a power? Stop changing themes and answer my question from the texts I gave you? Dave" 1) if Elymas is a charlatan – a con man – the the power came from his own (yester ra) finding a way to survive 2) if Elymas really does do magic – then those powers would come from the archonRob" Avoiding the question? WHere did the humans get their powers from? Dave" Many in entertainment and Hollywood admit they asked for itROb" Avoiding the question, where did the humans get their powers from? From the Opposer. Bingo, proof the Opposer is also opposing God. He gives humans his powers. A provider does this, called in Hebrew Ab, father. A true elohiym power provides powers to others who wish for this power. I saw this once. SDA boys all pray to Satan to help them win a soccer match at school. I asked them why don't you ask the HS to let you win instead. That does not work, they said. True I said, GOD is not encouraging sport with attitude, like you wish. Dave" 1) she was saved because she believed 2) if she was a Nephilim she would NOT give the spies refugeRob" so what was she than Dave? Why was she saved? Dave" These people who mistakenly thought they could oppose God all died Could they oppose God – NO – they tried but only committed suicide – spiritual sucideROb" coming over to my side Dave? So if humans can oppose GOD, why can't other elohiym powers also oppose God? Dave" You just deny the spiritual – and have to rewrite scripture to support your viewROb" I am not re-writing scripture. Elijah and Enoch and Jesus are in heaven as humans in a biological body. Dave" Many – many other elohiym powersROb:" You say I deny " a large section of the OT – those other gods, shedim, and demons were all imagunary" NO I dont, you don't have false elohiym powers to begin with. Such powers are defined as sinning powers, knowing good and evil. The only being that can know evil but not sin, is GOD. All other creatures have to sin in order to know evil. A created creature designed to be an agent of RA, cannot also be designed to know TOV, so your premise is wrong. YOu have no elohiym powers. Dave" So intelligent – keep inventing whatever you needROb" Well explain why the need to test perfect sinless creatures with free will? Why test free will? That is like saying God made nails in the golden streets to the humans can experience pain walking on nails too. After all experiencing pain is necessary in order to walk perfectly. How bogus is your thinking Dave. Dave" If you post here again it better be academically serious or I will will ignore youRob" I see. Than we had better say our goodbyes than. I will not allow you to delete me. That is not nice, even an enemy deserves better than that. You can enjoy your living in the USA. Thanks for the discussions. While I was away you made just two posts on your forum, you seem to like silence. We have together made your forum big enough for an audience to read of your views. Several thousand posts to be exact. Academically serious, would be a Rabbi who quotes the torah rather than speaks lofty words from his head. Or a scholar link to making differences between hebrew STN and the Greek Satanas, still waiting for your scholar link. If the whole world follows your view, than such a link must exist? Your view is not very known. I liked your off grid inventions, you are much like me in this regard, have much in common. Pity you have different views on the torah. Thanks for the chimney thermal pictures too, and your advice on batteries. I notice those who have COV19 vaccinations are experiencing blood clots and this is seriously being investigated by many doctors nowadays. The outcomes are not good, but research is being done to undo the damage to the blood cells. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 8, 2023 12:10:47 GMT -5
Dave" Correct – you must deny the NT Gospel and the words of Jesus Christ Rob: If you study you will find the primary language of the apostles was hebrew, that Jesus spoke Hebrew and the NT torah was orginally written in Hebrew. Robert myth #1The common language of the known world was Greek The official Language of the known world was Greek And had been for 400 years before Christ Hebrew as a language was forbidden in Israel 200BC (google) When did Israel stop speaking Hebrew? about 200 CE Most scholars now date the demise of Hebrew as a spoken language to the end of the Roman period, or about 200 CE. It continued on as a literary language down through the Byzantine period from the 4th century CE. The exact roles of Aramaic and Hebrew remain hotly debated. youtu.be/J8VxK5fZjqk?si=SA8Ck6abtcPzxeRoWhy was the New Testament written in Greek? Why were the Gospels written in Greek? Your teaching that the NT was written in Hebrew – a language that almost no one spoke or read is satanic. If you watch the Rabbi Singer videos on this forum – he says several times – that the NT is Greek because you cannot say some phrases in Hebrew ----------------------------------------- RobPP" If no creature ever sinned, I cannot see why God would have to develop and test free will in the first place? Dave" Correct – if man was a robot programmed to obey Does a robot love? Does a robot appreciate God? ROb" Well your angels have no problem loving the Lord as a robot, why make mankind differently? It's your problem, explaining your theory. So try again, you did not explain my question to you. Robert – you mock the NT When the Prodigal son return – it gives God divine joy You obviously deny the NT to even suggest such a question--------------------------------- Dave" God knows all – He is Omniscient – God knew exactly what would happen – do you trust man? God knew Eve would sin – and he allowed it to happen so that He could reveal His Glory via the Salvation of man. Rob" Your God must be selfish and sick to want to make billions of humans suffer, just to bring in some magnificent but torturous manner of love, One of us believes God loves manGod loves man so much that He lets man go – give him freedom to leave God – Free WillCreated man to have communion – Spirit to spirit Can you commune with a robot? - a programmed machine OH – maybe you can because to deny the spirit just to rescue humans from sin, a condition invented by God God created the Contest – man chose to fail all on his ownI do not see love in your theory at all. So you deny John 3:16 God loves the world SO MUCH – that he gave His only begotten SonWhy couldn't God just forgive the human sin, without this dying and death thing? Evidently – you deny the Jewish Divine Pardon Enoch – Elijah – evidently you deny or do not know your scriptureWhy couldn't God just forgive the human sin, without this dying and death thing? To man – actions speak louder than words All prophets died – one way or another
Only Christ rose from the dead – to prove death has no hold on man – to prove the after life is real and man has the opportunity (invited) to reign with God in heaven.----------------------- Why couldn't God just forgive the human sin, without this dying and death thing?The cycle of Life – God teaching within nature birth – life – growth to maturity – death – and rebirth Rebirth – New Life only come from death Every time an American Indian killed his lunch – they THANKED the animal and the CREATOR – only by the animal giving its life can man survive This is a basic message – believing in the Cross = New Life / eternal life This is the basic message of the Torah – sacrifice of the finest atones for the most Yes – the blood – the Lamb – the yearling – the washing of the blood – the death of Jesus as a human sacrifice – is all relevant to the Torah – to satisfy the Torah – to fulfill the Torah – even the rejection But the Death on the Cross is NOT – our salvationThe Apocalypse of Peter"For many will accept our teaching in the beginning. And they will turn from them again by the will of the Father of their error, because they have done what he wanted. And he will reveal them in his judgment, i.e., the servants of the Word. But those who became mingled with these shall become their prisoners, since they are without perception. And the guileless, good, pure one they push to the worker of death, and to the kingdom of those who praise Christ in a restoration. And they praise the men of the propagation of falsehood, those who will come after you. And they will cleave to the name of a dead man, thinking that they will become pure. But they will become greatly defiled and they will fall into a name of error, and into the hand of an evil, cunning man and a manifold dogma, and they will be ruled without law." Belief in the Resurrection – is the salvation – belief in the after life – belief that we are invited to reign with God – no matter what sins we have committed.---------------------------------------------- Dave" No matter how much scripture you have to deny to make is so Rob" I do not deny any Scripture to make this so. Robert – if you cannot be honest – this conversation is pointless – having a discussion with a liar is worthless.
Man up – take accountability for you own teaching------------------------- RobPP" In your faith of faith, you have no sin in your world, until the humans sinned, after God intentionally made arum creatures to test the human free will. Dave" Correct – I am a Christian and I believe scripture
Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, ….
Sin came into the WORLD through one member of mankind, humanity, man, - it came from /through the feminine EVE ROb" You also therefore have no other elohiym powers before the Father's face. I do not know what your statement has to do with Roman 5:12 BUT - No Robert there are no other gods opposing the Creator All opposition is directed at manWe all came from heaven – we all know the truth deep within When Baal offers you something for your loyalty – it is your choice – listen to the truth within – or choose pleasure. Listen to the promises of Allah and the Koran Just more worldly pleasures Both 'shorts' - less than 1 min --------------------- You used to say they were the beast arum creatures, but these creatures do not morally sin, so do not really understand morally good or evil, they are just natural creatures living thousands and thousands of years, without dying, sounds really weird to me. Rom 5:13 For up until the Torah, sin was in the world; but sin does not count as sin when there is no law.
The Archon are BEAST – there are only two commandments for the BEAST of the field within scripture 1) go forth and multiply 2) reproduce after they own kind
Show me the Commandments of God broken / transgresses by the BEAST
Do BEAST / animal remember the Sabbath and obtains from work? Do the BEAST honor their father and mother in nature Do the BEAST covet what is not theirs (seagulls, pack rats, crows) Do the BEAST murder carnavours Do the BEAST worship any God let alone the wrong God Exodus 20:1 have no other elohiym before my face. What God does Baal bow to? SELF – which is just ignorance of the truth What God does Caesar bow to? SELF – which is just ignorance of the truth When the BEAST opened his eyes – what God did he bow to SELF – which is just ignorance of the truth ------------------------- By the way, I have yet to understand a natural creature living over 4,000 years and still doing arum things to man. So you must also doubt that angels have existed for 5782 years serving God
Doubt seems to be your specialtyTime is a fools arguementGod - Man - angelsn and archon may have been around for 13.5 billion years You must really doubt angels can live that long Or longer - or shorter - Time is a fools argument------------------------------- Dave" Why do you teach that God’s creation is flawed – I DO NOT ROb" I do not call God's creation flawed, you do WOW – did you learn this phrase in the 3rd grade?My theory has God creating with matter that is perfect, without Entropy, chaos or RA.YEP – then it all fell and is now flawed – Romas 1:19-20 can only rediscover the handiwork of satanYour theory has everything as it is now, natural death, decomposition and lions eating zebra all along, designed that way from the beginning. Correct – Roman 1:19-20 – Creation exist in cycle upon cycle upon cycle of life- down to the microscopic level. So intricate – so delicate – so amazing that it can only point to an Intelligent Designer Your world without entropy = a frozen barren world without movement – absolute zero My theory has God creating a perfect creation with all animals as herbivores, no natural death, no seasons, no rain and no snow, all beautiful and perfectly ordered.YEP – then it fellDave" Why do you teach that God’s creation is flawed – I DO NOT ROb" I do not call God's creation flawed, you do So intelligentRObPP"You do not have in your world any real sinning that I see. Dave" Eve disobeying God and eating of the fruit is not sin? This view of yours is totally different to my view, in which the serpent was sinning in order to make Eve sin so easily and rapidly that day. But you deny the serpent can morally sin, at all.Correct – you deny scripture – you rewrite scripture to fit your satanology – you bend scripture to fit your Ellen White Gospel Scripture says more than once – the serpent deceived Dave" Sorry Robert – the BEAST has been within creation since Gen 1:2 the creation of matter Rob" explain the verse than Lu 4:6 All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. How can natural arum creatures have power to give to humans ? Where did this power come from? Robert – you are stupid – unable to read English – or brainwashed beyond belief – it is so hard to take you seriously.
Luk 4:5 And leading Him up, the devil showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in an instant. Luk 4:6 And the devil said to Him, “I’ll give to You all this authority along with its glory, because it has been handed over to me and I can give it to anyone I wish. Luk 4:7 Therefore, if you will worship before me, all this shall be Yours.” All the devil / the BEAST has to offer is the WORLD The BEAST is king of physical reality 3D world is the kingdom of the BEASTBut – you claim to know and not deny scriptureWhomsoever I will give it, means the devils can give powers to whoever they like...?YES – King Solomon’s shedim YES – the Jinn of Islam YES – the other-gods of the Levant YES – the other-gods of the known world YES – aliens from outer space YES - The Watchers of Enoch Teach man heavenly knowledge – potions and incantations YES – the archon can and do effect nature YES – pray to me and I’ll make it rain YES – piss off the gods and there is NO RAIN YES – storms at sea YES – the entire hierarchy of the gods of the Assyrians were called STORM GODSYES – I believe it allRev 12:9 - the great dragon - the ancient serpent, - called the devil and satanas, who deceives the whole world. He was thrown down to the earth, and his angels (messengers / archon) were thrown down with him. who deceives the whole world. - all the world – India / Egypt / Greece / Canaan + the restRev 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven saying, “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Anointed One, for the accuser of our brothers and sisters—the one who accuses them before our God day and night—has been thrown out. The opposers / accusers of manYES – I believe scripture------------ Dave" Man was present in the garden – you just deny the spirit Rob" OH, so the spirit of Tyre is 3,000 years old, and the body of Tyre is 30 years old, but that is OK to you? Dave" Deny away – you have much practices Rob" OH so the spirits of man all walked in heaven among the mountain of God, and later came to earth in bodies, with spirits really old in very young bodies of clay. How nice you have such a complex arrangement for the soul of man. Chabad Judaism 101 – LIFE LIVESMan = a full part of the host of heaven – we are Christian soldiers in God’s army Man soul exist in a place called – the well of souls God tells man 40 days prior – that he is to be born so man has 40 days to prepair Gen 2:7 happens at conception = pro-life In the womb – the animal is immature – God is in the womb with the fetus – supporting it spiritually – teaching it the Torah At birth – the animal is still immature and God remains with the new born – this is why the expression – look into the face of a new born and witness the love love of God After birth – as the animal matures – instinctive (yester ra) begins to express itself The love and appreciation for mother’s milk becomes – HEY! FEED ME! Once animal (yester ra) is empowered – God leaves us on our own – to face the world on our own. The story of the Prodigal son – the son ventures off into the world – to remember heaven and God – then return to give God divine joyBut you have never been taught this scripture ------------------------------ Dave" Sorry Robert – the Beast appeared in a plurality ready to devour ROb" like your Rabbi term "YHWH fluidity. Oops – are these big words that you fail to comprehend --------------- Dave" Sorry – there is only one God ROb" Well than there is only one Adam too, when He sinned, knowing good and evil. You cannot have your debate both ways. (the word Adam also included Adam and Eve) Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man H120 – אָדָם – 'âdâm - From H119; ruddy, that is, a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.)
YES – the word adam includes all humanity – all mankind---------------------------- Dave" THREE DIFFERENT BEINGS ROb" I would say three different personalities of loving, but of the same being. You teach God died on the Cross You teach God cannot be Christ because Jesus Christ prays to God in heaven
You are trying to slip out from under your own teachings--------------------------------- Dave" I admit it – its not mine. It came from a Jewish Children’s book about the flood of Noah – ROb" It's nice as a picture. I got the picture from a medical website – the original was long ago. The original was God hiding behind a cloud reaching down to man I was told – long ago (2001) if I want to study Judaism at depth – I should begin as a child and directed to a Jewish children library. Dave" The father Creator – is unimaginable – beyond our reality – larger than creation – His Face that no man can see ROb" Nice OK THEN – how do the Jews experience God? They can only experience the right hand – Christ (YHWY-YESHUA) (Father-Saviour) (God-Christ) Christ is just the Right Hand of God – and is God They can experience the left hand – the Sheikeinah – the Holt Spirit – that dwells (Tabernacles) with man Judaism has always seen God a duality God on His throne 24/7 + His spirit that dwells with man Christian trinity is not a hard step for a Messianic JewGod on His throne 24/7 + His spirit that dwells with man That spirit dwelling in a tent – a temple – and a Man named Jesus - the image of God But for some reason you must fight and fuss – declaring Judaism wrong – scripture wrong – Christianity wrong and change the discussion to one of satan-------------------------------------- Dave" Your view does not matter – only scripture is truth Rob" You have said many times the Beast is a false elohiym power, cannot be true, because false elohiym powers have to be sinning in order to know good and evil. Exo 32:1 Now when the people saw that Moses delayed coming down from the mountain, they gathered around Aaron and said to him, “Get up, make us gods who will go before us. As for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we do not know what’s become of him!” Exo 32:2 So Aaron said to them, “Break off the golden rings that are in the ears of your wives, your sons and your daughters, and bring them to me.” Exo 32:3 So all the people broke off the golden rings that were in their ears and brought them to Aaron. Exo 32:4 He received them from their hand, and made a molten calf, fashioned with a chiseling tool. Then they said, “This is your god, Israel, which brought you up out of the land of Egypt!” Exo 32:5 When Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it. Then Aaron made a proclamation saying, “Tomorrow will be a feast to Adonai.” Exo 32:6 They rose up early the next morning, sacrificed burnt offerings and brought fellowship offerings. The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to make merry. How does a golden calf made of molten jewelry and trinkets know good and evil? Did that stop the people from praying / sacrificing / and rejoicing?
Beast is a false elohiym power, cannot be true, because false elohiym powers have to be sinning in order to know good and evil. What sin did the golden calf make? What law did this lump of metal transgress? You make up your assumptions from where – is this more Ellen White talking or are you just making it up?---------------------------- SO in my view, if there are other elohiym powers, than Eve was made to sin by watching the serpent sin Himself. YEP – all you have to do is rewrite scripture to fit you denominational traditions--------------------------------- RobPP" The Chief Opposer also is about making the flow from the Father less and less. Dave" ABSOLUTE SATAN TALK – rejected with attitude!Rob" OK than your serpent cannot be a false elohiym power than, because such a term requires the creature to be able to gnosis both good and evil, hence has to have free will in order to sin, Repeat - What sin did the golden calf make? What law did this lump of metal transgress?----------------- Dave" Man does not need t be possessed by your satan to be greedy, desirious, wantenous Man does not need to be possessed by your satan to sin Man is perfectly capable of acting on his own (yester ra) ROb" That is another theme Dave. I am asking you, where did the power come from?Ac 13:10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, Also Re 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: Where does the power come from? That is my question to you.The magican and the beast are both humans, but where does their RA, SIN actions come from, as a power? Stop changing themes and answer my question from the texts I gave you? Dave" 1) if Elymas is a charlatan – a con man – the the power came from his own (yester ra) finding a way to survive 2) if Elymas really does do magic – then those powers would come from the archonRob" Avoiding the question? WHere did the humans get their powers from?2) if Elymas really does do magic – then those powers would come from the archon
Dave" Many in entertainment and Hollywood admit they asked for it ROb" Avoiding the question, where did the humans get their powers from? From the Opposer.2) if Elymas really does do magic – then those powers would come from the archon(post séance confession of SDA member Roger Mornou)“Well”, he said, “You know, what you people are doing, talking to the supposed spirits of the dead”, he says, “This is silly. You see, my wife, goes to the séances because she gets comfort and she gets a good feeling out of it and she lives for what the spirits are going to say that the future’s going to be like. To me, I can’t bother with that stuff. He then said, “I want power, I go right to the source of power. How do you think I became famous the way that I am?” I said, “You must have had some good luck.” Well he said, “There’s no such thing as ‘good luck’, there’s either some power working for you somewhere, or you don’t get ahead in this world, not in my type of occupation. You see for years it seemed I was a failure in organizing and maintaining my own jazz band. But then I was fortunate enough to be introduced to spirit worship. And by that great power I have obtained everything I had always wanted. His face lit up with a big smile, from that day on, it was instant success for me and my band. Recognition came to us overnight. Without any effort on our part we were discovered and heralded as one of the great bands in our filed. The news media got all excited about us, and we became the talk of the town. In no time we reached the top. ----------------------- Bingo, proof the Opposer is also opposing God. He gives humans his powers. Bingo, proof the Opposer opposes man
The Hypostasis of the ArchonsMoreover, they threw mankind into great distraction and into a life of toil, so that their mankind might be occupied by worldly affairs, and might not have the opportunity of being devoted to the holy spirit. ------------------------ Dave" These people who mistakenly thought they could oppose God all died Could they oppose God – NO – they tried but only committed suicide – spiritual sucide ROb" coming over to my side Dave?
So if humans can oppose GOD, why can't other elohiym powers also oppose God?Dave" These people who mistakenly thought they could oppose God all died Could they oppose God – NO – they tried but only committed suicide – spiritual sucide------------------------ Dave" You just deny the spiritual – and have to rewrite scripture to support your view ROb" I am not re-writing scripture. Elijah and Enoch and Jesus are in heaven as humans in a biological body.Matt 17.1-9 Mark 9.2-9 Luke 9.28-36 1 Six days later, Jesus took with him Peter and James and his brother John and led them up a high mountain, by themselves. 2 And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became dazzling white. So you deny scripture twice – Jesus Christ was not transfigured and biology does inherit the kingdom of heaven--------------------------- Dave" Many – many other elohiym powers ROb:" You say I deny "a large section of the OT – those other gods, shedim, and demons were all imagunary" NO I dont, you don't have false elohiym powers to begin with. Such powers are defined as sinning powers, knowing good and evil. The only being that can know evil but not sin, is GOD. All other creatures have to sin in order to know evil. A created creature designed to be an agent of RA, cannot also be designed to know TOV, so your premise is wrong. YOu have no elohiym powers. Dave" So intelligent – keep inventing whatever you needMan was perfectle able to pray and sacrifice to a golden clalf made of metal Man is perfectly able to worship a rock Man is perfectly able to worship a beast Man is perfectly able to worship another manYou have to invent preconditions and exceptions to keep Ellen White superior to scripture ROb" Well explain why the need to test perfect sinless creatures with free will? Why test free will? Deu 8:2 You are to remember all the way that Adonai your God has led you these 40 years in the wilderness—in order to humble you, to test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His mitzvot or not. You can ask God – or doubt scripture Or accuse me of not reading scripture correctly Or claim no one has ever understood scripture correctly befor Ellen White told you how to read it ---------------- That is like saying God made nails in the golden streets to the humans can experience pain walking on nails too. Just more made up fantasy from Robert.Dave" If you post here again it better be academically serious or I will will ignore you Rob" I see. Than we had better say our goodbyes than. So you have given up trying to defend your own teaching You have been ask to address Ellen White’s Covenant theology – you refuseYou have been asked to go through each like about satan and show us how your satan rebels, hates, and opposes God. Again you refuse You have been asked why you deny specific verse from the NT Gospel Again you refuseThe more you talk – the more scripture you must denyUntil eventually you are willing to denounce the entire NT GospelDave" Correct – the orgin story of the Beast is not recorded in the OT – it is recorded in the NTRob" Than the NT torah is invalid. that was too far – to satanic – to un-Christian for beliefI notice those who have COV19 vaccinations are experiencing blood clots and this is seriously being investigated by many doctors nowadays. The outcomes are not good, but research is being done to undo the damage to the blood cells. This has been true since the very first vaccine – you are just ignorant of historyBut you do not have to worry – Eph 6:12 – our real struggle with principalities – Archon created by God for God Col 1:16 – do not exist according to you – just all Gnostic heresyThanks for the discussions. While I was away you made just two posts on your forum, you seem to like silence. We have together made your forum big enough for an audience to read of your views. Several thousand posts to be exact. YEP – you have tried real hard to sell your satan as a god here – you have been his good and trusty disciple But no one is buying itI prefer silence? It is true – I enjoy that hour I am awake before the alarm goes off – prayer time – peaceful time – without interruption Then I go to work – here – in my office – for my family – for others YES – I am very much a charismatic Christian and believe in the spirit – and yes I believe scripture I believe in the reality of the BEAST - Rev 12 I believe in the reality of the archon – Eph 6:12 I believe in the reality of the archon – Col 1:16 I believe in the shedim of the OT and all the other gods of scripture The only scripture I deny = your version of Ezk 28If that offends you – Too Bad
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Post by rob on Sept 8, 2023 18:43:16 GMT -5
Greetings Dave Happy Sabbath The video did not say much, he assumed the Jews spoke Greek because Alexander the Great took over Israel with Greek is an assumption. Dave" If you watch the Rabbi Singer videos on this forum – he says several times – that the NT is Greek because you cannot say some phrases in HebrewROb" Maybe the translations are so good, that they are indeed Greek phrases, hence no longer a translation from Hebrew. I read and watched your link, but you did not read my link to a deep scholar on the subject. ------------------------- RobPP" If no creature ever sinned, I cannot see why God would have to develop and test free will in the first place?Dave" Correct – if man was a robot programmed to obey Does a robot love? Does a robot appreciate God?ROb" Well your angels have no problem loving the Lord as a robot, why make mankind differently? It's your problem, explaining your theory.Dave posts" Robert – you mock the NT When the Prodigal son return – it gives God divine joy You obviously deny the NT to even suggest such a questionRob" I do not mock the NT, or the parable of the prodigal son, I asked you a question but you dodge the question three times now? " If no creature ever sinned (both mind and flesh are perfect), I cannot see why God would have to develop and test free will in the first place?" Can't you answer this simple question? Your problem is you cannot fathom both mind and flesh as perfect (no entropy in the matter of flesh) hence all things are perfect and need no trying. Dave" God loves man so much that He lets man go – give him freedom to leave God – Free WillROb" SO God doesn't love the angels that much, their love is robotic? See how non-consistent your theory is Dave. So God doesn't love the angels as much as God loves man. Dave" C an you commune with a robot? - a programmed machineRob" Really Dave. Your angels are closest as creatures to GOD and GOD loves them less, and cannot commune with them, heart to heart. See how non-consistent your theory is Dave. Why can't GOD create the angels with free will like man? And the angels never sinned for billions of years never needed testing. Go look at a different theory Dave? Can't you test this theory out and poke holes in this theory, your theory has holes in it. Dave" So you deny John 3:16 God loves the world SO MUCH – that he gave His only begotten SonROb" you cannot answer why GOD would need to develop arum creatures to test free will? ANd than GOD sends Himself into the world to rescue man from such creatures GOD himself designed. And you call this a supreme love act? Can't you test this theory out and poke holes in this theory, your theory has holes in it. If something is perfect, why does it require testing? The free will act is a moral decision to forget God and walk away from God, thus oppose GOD as a relationship. It does not need testing, if the creatures are perfect and sinless already. Do you understand what perfect means? In your view, no you don't. Your understanding is matter cannot be created perfectly to begin with. Can't you imagine a totally different matter, with aboslute perfect precision, and no entropy? No part of GOD is ever lost, is what having no entropy means. Dave" Evidently – you deny the Jewish Divine PardonRob" What? Scripture please?' Dave" The cycle of Life – God teaching within nature birth – life – growth to maturity – death – and rebirth Rebirth – New Life only come from death
Every time an American Indian killed his lunch – they THANKED the animal and the CREATOR – only by the animal giving its life can man surviveROb" Hmm? Dave when Moses spent 40 days and nights with GOD, Moses did not eat or drink anything. Living comes from being with GOD, not from a cycle of food and animals with life offering up their living. That is why the Opposer tempted God to command stones to be bread. It was a slap upon the nature of God. You say God was not tempted. If Jesus was GOD, he would not become hungry, but He did, because God was clad in humanity and thus was able to be tempted like a human is. Living comes as a power from God, it is not necessary to eat food if you are in communion with Him. Jesus is the bread from heaven, He said. Dave" Robert – if you cannot be honest – this conversation is pointless – having a discussion with a liar is worthless.Rob" I am sorry you see things this way. You have not answered my questions, perhaps you cannot read the Scritpures as I read them because you see things differently because of a different view. Only God can fix that, not me. Dave" Sin came into the WORLD through one member of mankind, humanity, man, - it came from /through the feminine EVERob" so sin - disobedience - came through one female, on a single day, sin entered the world, so easily by Eve? And you have no opposing elohiym power that also sinned to help Eve sin as well. That is your view and your welcome to it. I just want to point out, you have no opposing elohiym power before the Father's face, only Eve and Adam became the opposing eohiym power, yet these humans fully repented of their sin. SO again we have no elohiym power opposing God. Again why the need for a talking arum creature to tempt Eve to Sin, why couldn't the tree itself talk to Eve? ( I believe trees talk via our penal gland ) Why didn't the desire to eat the fruit come from the fruit? Why the need for an agent of RA? ------------------------ I watched your short videos, thanks ------------------------ Dave" The Archon are BEAST – there are only two commandments for the BEAST of the field within scripture 1) go forth and multiply 2) reproduce after they own kindRob" So the chief opposer / beast died and was replaced with another natural arum creature? DO you have any Bible texts for this idea Dave? 3) And these arum creatures have no command to tempt humans to sin? DId you leave out something? So why was the serpent talking than? --------------- Dave" Do the BEAST murder carnivores ?Rob" The royal law say something broader, than just no kill (hareg), it says no wounding (ratsach). A hungry lion (haregs) it's prey to eat. A arum creature ( wounds) a human, robbing him of his chances of salvation. (false speaking of truth) (questioning God) (making excuses) (making a false presentation of truth) (liars) (bullying) These are examples of wounding others, removing their salvation potential. In John 8 Jesus called the Opposer a "ratsach" from the beginning. meaning the Opposer robbed the angels from seeking salvation through repentance. Too late He said, you are with me now, so start hating God. If your arum creatures are of only two commands, why do they speak with arum tongue (ie to wound others)? Dave" Exodus 20:1 have no other elohiym before my face. What God does Baal bow to? SELF – which is just ignorance of the truthRob" correct SELF and Selfishness is the biggest opposing thing to GOD. Self is no relationship, all alone, Me and I, no other partner. What happened to Adam , the sinless creature created on day 6, seeing all the kinds are two paersonalities of loving? He got lonely for that love too. Was not in SELF, nor desired SELF, Self did not exist. Adam was partnered to GOD, and thus in a communion relationship. Love has a relational quality, a provider and responder, where SELF does not exist. Sin is a desire to break relationship and become Self. You speak well here Dave. Dave" SELF – which is just ignorance of the truthROb" Ignorance is a sin. I showed you the verse in Leviticus already. Dave" So you must also doubt that angels have existed for 5782 years serving GodROb" SInless creatures do not die Dave. Neither do natural creatures like bacteria never die either, when sinless. Everything is perfect. Go forth and fill the earth is a gene switch to multiply, after than the gene is switched off. But nothing ever died. Enoch is now over 4,000 years old, so is Elijah, they are sinless, perfect, no aging process. So the natural creatures on earth die, some after 21 days like bees, but the arum creature is sinless and does not ever die? Really Dave, how come the arum creatures are allowed to live but the other creatures do not live? Dave" You must really doubt angels can live that long Or longer - or shorter - Time is a fools argumentROb" I am trying to sound how foolish your theories are. The opposing creatures are sinning creatures and are allowed to live until the end of their probation time when they are judged correctly as sinning creatures. Being the first creature to have sinned, they are held accountable for their sins, and thus kept alive by God. Sin never arises a second time. If a sinless being every chooses to wander from God, they are immediately ceasing to exist, and nobody would ever blink an eyelid of fear. The opposing elohiym power is on trial for his SIN. This is aparent from the royal law Ex 20:1 Have no elohiym power before Me. It's a strange commandment, because exercising the free will become an opposing elohiym power before Me. SO GOD is saying one cannot choose the free will choice. The rest of the other laws are about living with God. SO really to all free will creatures the first law says, never exercise your free will to oppose your God.Dave" S cripture says more than once – the serpent deceivedROb" In my two pennies of thought, deceiving somebody is a sin, is it not? That includes bad salesmen too? Rob PP" How can natural arum creatures have power to give to humans ? Where did this power come from?Dave" Robert – you are stupid – unable to read English – or brainwashed beyond belief – it is so hard to take you seriously.ROb" The power comes from the Opposer Himself, He is a "ab" or provider of SIN, thus Jesus said a "Father of liars, there is no truth in Him" That's funny the serpent did not speak the truth, He deceived, and Jesus says there is no truth in him. I trust Scripture. Dave" The BEAST is king of physical reality 3D world is the kingdom of the BEASTROb" COrrect. Da 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. 25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. THis prophecy speaks of the power of the arum creature given power unto a false religion, it's purpose is to deceive humans into a false salvation process. " speak against the Most High" : oppose the Father: Da 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, Here the SON is given earth as a kingdom, but the Son has to wrestle the throne from the opposing prince of earth.
Not from humans, but from the Opposer, where humans get their powers from. But it was humans who killed Jesus, so it seemed? Dave" The opposers / accusers of man
YES – I believe scriptureRob" read the prophecy and kingdom world Jesus comes to claim as His. " speak against the Most High" The arum creatures give power to humans to speak against the Most High. ------------------ Dave" The story of the Prodigal son – the son ventures off into the world – to remember heaven and God – then return to give God divine joyROb" the arum beast is a creature of God doing RA things, why can't the creature return to God and give GOD divine joy? Why are so many thrown into the Lake of Fire? Obviously there a limits to God's grace. Dave" Oops – are these big words that you fail to comprehendROb" yes, confound them with brilliance baffling buffoony Doctors do this all the time, invent jargon. Dave" YES – the word adam includes all humanity – all mankindRob" SO eohiym means "family" as a singularity term.Not solitary one as you want to claim Dave" You teach God died on the Cross You teach God cannot be Christ because Jesus Christ prays to God in heavenROb" Yes the love power of the divine family was separated, causing the "death process". Death is defined as the ultimate separation of family members. The provider has no responders. The collector cannot collect. The divine family is also relational when love flows as one stream. The cathode and anode make a circuit of love that flows as one power. The Collector prays to the Provider. This is the only way faith works. The laws are faithful and thus always love flows as a relational concept. Never on your own. Dave" You are trying to slip out from under your own teachingsROb Spoken by one who does not understand me. Dave" I was told – long ago (2001) if I want to study Judaism at depth – I should begin as a child and directed to a Jewish children library.ROb" Yes I also teach my students if you want to learn things fast, go reading Children books, written by experts designed for children. I love reading children books. I learnt more about camera operation in 3 mintues from reading children books, inlcuding the f stop, b function and lens affects. Brilliant book ! Dave" OK THEN – how do the Jews experience God?ROb" I like how you say this. I experience the Father via the Son who is brought to me via the HS. This is a different picture to you, both are mediums bringing the Father to me. Jesus bridges the Father, divinity with humanity and the HS brings Jesus to me personally. Dave" Judaism has always seen God a dualityROb" Marriage is duality. I have no problem with the term. The wife can make decisions as if the husband did them. Buy and sell land even. Dave" Christian trinity is not a hard step for a Messianic JewROb" OK why did Gordon palm me off with polytheism, and said goodbye? One email. Dave" But for some reason you must fight and fuss – declaring Judaism wrong – ROb" Than explain this verse I presented Ge 3:22 ¶ And YHWH Elohiym said, Behold, the Adam Elohiym is become as one of us, to know good and evil: Elohiym is a term describing community as singularity.A family picture, but not from parents that continue but from creation alone. However the elohiym in heaven was never created either, It existed that way from eternity. Why is this verse so hard to fathom to you? Dave" How does a golden calf made of molten jewelry and trinkets know good and evil?ROb" What did the calf represent? The calf is a symbol of the Hebrew letter "A". So this letter means the Father in heaven, or some other false elohiym power ? How would we know? From the context of the people's actions. Question" Does the word "elohiym" mean "family" in pagan terms, and secular terms? Yes 1) male deity, female deity and other deities 2) judges were a family bar of judgers 3) Moses was a family, brother Aaron and sister Miriam The calf was a father deity representing a family of pagan strong authorities. Dave" What sin did the golden calf make? What law did this lump of metal transgress?ROb" Are you OK? Since when is the gun itself evil ? No it is the person who shoots and uses the gun that is evil. What powers of authority were the people seeking, by making the golden bull calf? Re 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the "golden calf": Can't you put Scripture together, line upon line, here a little there a little? A beast is a symbol of something else. A lump of gold is a symbol of something else. Humans are just pawns in the powers of the dragon. Hence the Opposer is opposing God, not just opposing humans. It's a game of chess, we are the pawns. Ps 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, SO Christians are trees are we? Ps 23:2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. SO humans are sheep are we? The Bible is full of poetry and symbols that tells us what the symbols mean. It makes the poetry fun to dig up and discover, also hides truth from those who find it too hard to dig up for. Dave" Y ou make up your assumptions from where – ROb" Eze 20:49 Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! they say of me, Doth he not speak parables? Nu 23:7 And he took up his parable, and said, De 28:37 And thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, Job 27:1 ¶ Moreover Job continued his parable, and said, have you considered JOB as one huge poem full of symbols and similes? Ps 49:4 I will incline mine ear to a parable: Ps 78:2 I will open my mouth in a parable: Pr 1:1 ¶ The poetry of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel; Pr 26:7 The legs of the lame are not equal: so is a parable in the mouth of fools. Isa 14:4 ¶ That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, Eze 12:22 Son of man, what is that proverb Hab 2:6 Shall not all these take up a parable against him, Why nearly every book has poetry in it?RObPP" SO in my view, if there are other elohiym powers, than Eve was made to sin by watching the serpent sin Himself.Dave" YEP – all you have to do is rewrite scripture to fit you denominational traditionsROb" OK explain who is your elohiym power opposing man than and explain how it is opposing man? Can't be designed that way, God did not create the beast to be both TOV and RA did He? You need free will to choose to be TOV or RA? Yet your creatures are agents of RA? RobPP" Rob" OK than your serpent cannot be a false elohiym power than, because such a term requires the creature to be able to gnosis both good and evil, hence has to have free will in order to sin,Dave" Repeat - What sin did the golden calf make? What law did this lump of metal transgress?ROb" Poetry symbol Dave/ what does the gold lump represent? Dave" (post séance confession of SDA member Roger Mornou)Rob" Well said Dave The humans get their powers from the Opposer. And the opposing elohiym power opposes the Most High, by providing humans with power NOT from GOD. Da 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, The Opposer powers the humans who speak against the Father. Therefore the Opposer opposes the Father. If humans speak against the Father in heaven, and get their powers from the Opposer, than why do you say Dave :_ " Bingo, proof the Opposer opposes man" If China is supplying weapons to Russia to fuel the war in Ukraine, then that means CHina is an enemy of the USA who also supplies weapons to the Ukraine? During the second world war, the USA was supplying computers and oil to Hitler, and later came to bomb Hitler to surrender? Weird, this money making business? The dragon can make pawns on both sides, after all the dragon does not care who dies for His cause. Dave" These people who mistakenly thought they could oppose God all died Could they oppose God – NO – they tried but only committed suicide – spiritual sucideRob" And the opposers also die in the Lake of Fire too, proof that their powers are not wanted from God either.Dave" S o you deny scripture twice – Jesus Christ was not transfigured and biology does inherit the kingdom of heavenROb" Jesus shines with glory, while in a human body, is anything too hard for the Father to achieve? Dave" Dave" So intelligent – keep inventing whatever you needROb" SO explain how your beast powers know both good and evil without free will to choose good or evil? Really up to you to explain this? Not for me to question you? How come you cannot explain this idea? Or do not wish to? Dave" Man was perfectle able to pray and sacrifice to a golden clalf made of metal Man is perfectly able to worship a rock Man is perfectly able to worship a beast Man is perfectly able to worship another manROb" How does a lump of gold give man power? Or a rock? Or a cow? Perhaps a man might, like Rockfeller? Can't you fathom the power the humans seek? Ac 13:10 ...thou child of the devil, Re 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: gold has no power of it's own rock has no power of it's own nor can a cow make you famous Nor can a human make you a rock star, though some might do this But an opposer can empower you with fame and fortune, you said so yourself? Why are you avoiding the topic? Dave" Deu 8:2 You are to remember all the way that Adonai your God has led you these 40 years in the wilderness—in order to humble you, to test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His mitzvot or not.ROb" GOd is trying the sinning people who are declared sinless, and might back slide and become stiff necks. A perfect sinless created creature does not need such trying because they have no propensities to do wrong. They are sinless and perfect. In Deut 8:2, the people are not sinless and perfect, they are forgiven and weak. The mind is willing but the flesh is weak, God says. In a perfect world both the mind and body is sinless and strong. In Deut 8:2, the mind is willing but the body is weak. So not all things are restored to a sinless state. So my question to you remains the same, in a sinless perfect world, a creature with both a perfect mind and body of flesh (also perfect) needs no trying the free will to sin. Such a mind loves God fully all the time. DO you agree with this idea? Dave" So you have given up trying to defend your own teachingROb" NO, I have not given up, I am still kind to you, and do not mock you, I ask you questions you cannot answer. Your theory has holes in it. Dave" You have been asked to go through each like about satan and show us how your satan rebels, hates, and opposes God. Again you refuseROb" I have been doing this? Even this post contains more evidence. Daniel 7 and 9 for example. Dave posts again to mock " Dave" Correct – the orgin story of the Beast is not recorded in the OT – it is recorded in the NTRob" Than the NT torah is invalid.ROb replies again" Dave your beast origin is in the OT torah, it has to be, inorder to make the NT torah make sense. But you deny the verses I show you. 1) cherub sinned 2) saraph on the pole 3) new kingdom given to the Son (Daniel 7) 4) powers of the Opposer make humans speak against the Most HIgh Father. These are OT torah speaking of the arum creature that sins, to become defined as a creature knowing good and evil, but chooses the evil rather than the good. Dave" YES – I am very much a charismatic Christian and believe in the spirit – and yes I believe scripture I believe in the reality of the BEAST - Rev 12 I believe in the reality of the archon – Eph 6:12 I believe in the reality of the archon – Col 1:16 I believe in the shedim of the OT and all the other gods of scriptureROb" But you not believe these powers are sinning powers, morally judged by GOD for their sins, even sins they do upon humans especially. Dave" The only scripture I deny = your version of Ezk 28 If that offends you – Too BadROb" You also deny other verses too, Dave 1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. The devil is a morally sinning power. You deny this verse. Nu 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: You deny the saraph being, the serpent is. Such saraph beings are angels closest to the throne of GOD. Another verse you also deny. Isa 14:4 ¶ That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, You deny this poetry symbolism and what the passage is about Dave. Isa 14:8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, Weird stuff this poem Isa 14:11 ...the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. Two different worms here with two different similes. Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, Well some power fell from heaven? Isa 14:14 ...I will be like the most High. Isa 14:29 Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent. Who is this flying saraph that comes out of this poem? The rod of him that smote thee is broken? WHo is this? The saraph being. Another poem you deny Dave, apart from Ezekiel. ------------- Da 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; Da 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: The power from the Opposer, sets up a false salvation power based on changes in the royal laws of GOD Da 7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, God decides to take away this power's dominion Why ? Because the power is opposing God? Re 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: The world wonders after the false salvation power is set up again, a wound that heals, and the world wonders after the beast and the power the dragon gives to the beast. So the dragon must oppose GOD, if the human salvation system established by the dragon is opposing God. Re 13:4 ...Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? Man boast over the powers the dragon supplies, who can war with the dragon's powers? Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Well the good angels were at war with the bad angels. So the same war is also on earth this time over man, good humans at war over wicked humans. Re 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. This war on earth continues for 42 months. Not some bustle and immediate war like the war in heaven. Re 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: Many good humans are killed by the wicked humans, and where does this power come from? The dragon. Why does the dragon wish to kill humans that do not sin? 1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Because the humans who do not sin, are partnered to GOD, and the Opposer hates sinless creatures. 1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. 1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. Therefore the dragon has no seeds of GOD in him because the dragon sinneth from the beginning. Shalom Dave Have to go and water my plants with water, a simile of Jesus power via the HS, give them the food that is living. And the trees bear the fruits of GOD because they are drinking in the Spirit of Water. whoever drinks freely of the water if life, has living indeed Jesus says. I enjoy the poetry similes in Scripture and try to be a fruit tree growing by the Rivers of Jesus. Enjoy your Sabbath Day
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Post by Dave on Sept 9, 2023 3:31:53 GMT -5
The video did not say much, he assumed the Jews spoke Greek because Alexander the Great took over Israel with Greek is an assumption. The issue is the intended audience spoke and read Greek You teaching that the Gospel went out in a language than no one spoke or read is errorI read and watched your link, but you did not read my link to a deep scholar on the subject.Rob: If you study www.eaglefeather.org/series/Ancient%20Culture%20Series/Was%20the%20New%20Testament%20Really%20Written%20in%20Greek.pdf you will find the primary language of the apostles was hebrew, that Jesus spoke Hebrew and the NT torah was orginally written in Hebrew. 1) no I have not read all 424 pages
2) Your claim that this paper support Hebrew as the base language is a lie
3) Did you read it – did you read the abstract – did you even read the title‘A Concise Compendium of the Internal and External Evidence of Aramaic Peshitta Primacy’Your paper argues that the NT Gospel was written in Aramaic – the language of Jesus and the disciples Chapters 1-6 argue against your claim – argue against Hebrew as the origin Chapter 7 – is the argument against a Greek origin
Currently I am still in chapter 4 – I might read some of Chapter 7 – or I might be done with it------------------------- RobPP" If no creature ever sinned, I cannot see why God would have to develop and test free will in the first place? Rob ... I asked you a question but you dodge the question three times now? IF is a game of fantasy IF little green men live on the moon they must eat cheese IF elephants had bigger ears they could fly – disney is proof
Why can't GOD create the angels with free will like man? Why can’t elephants fly – they do for disney Why can’t can’t men have babies
If and Why – questioning scripture – is evidence of doubt----------------------------------- In your view, no you don't. Your understanding is matter cannot be created perfectly to begin with. My view = God created a finely tuned multiverse so that life could thrive – as uncovered by Roman 1:19-20---------------------------------- Dave" Evidently – you deny the Jewish Divine Pardon Rob" What? Scripture please?' Exactly - even tho we have discussed it muchDave" The cycle of Life – God teaching within nature birth – life – growth to maturity – death – and rebirth Rebirth – New Life only come from death Living comes as a power from God, it is not necessary to eat food if you are in communion with Him. Jesus is the bread from heaven, He said.You claim to be a vegan – isn’t that eating? Just how many of your SDA fellows do not eat? Just religious posturing on your partDave" Robert – if you cannot be honest – this conversation is pointless – having a discussion with a liar is worthless. Rob" I am sorry you see things this way. You claim that you do not deny scripture YET – I have a long list for you to justify – you refuse to answer----------------------- You have not answered my questions, This claim of your is absolute nonsense
Be a man – be a Christian – be Honest
I have address all your your nonsense – your claim otherwise is just your ass Over and over I have answered the same question over and over
Dave" Sin came into the WORLD through one member of mankind, humanity, man, - it came from /through the feminine EVE Rob" so sin - disobedience - came through one female, on a single day, sin entered the world, so easily by Eve? Are you attempting to deny this scripture as well?And you have no opposing elohiym power that also sinned to help Eve sin as well. Gen 3:6 Now the woman saw that the tree was good for food, - (yester ra) yummyand that it was a thing of lust for the eyes, - ( yester ra) lust for the eyesand that the tree was desirable for imparting wisdom. - (yester ra) desirable – greedSo she took of its fruit and she ate. - her choice alone All the serpent did was deceive All the serpent did was tell Eve the truth Eve did not understand – because she didn’t know Once she took a bite – she knew I just want to point out, you have no opposing elohiym power before the Father's face, only Eve ABSOLUTELY CORRECT – who can oppose God – No OneI thought I had made this clear by now The Beast opposes creation and man is part of that ------------------------ I watched your short videos, thanks Just as was promised to Jesus - the WORLD and WORDLY PLEASURES It is all that the BEAST has to offer ------------------------ Dave" The Archon are BEAST – there are only two commandments for the BEAST of the field within scripture 1) go forth and multiply 2) reproduce after they own kind Rob" So the chief opposer / beast died and was replaced with another natural arum creature?What is this – have no idea what your asking – do you know? You just invent things – so honest3) And these arum creatures have no command to tempt humans to sin?Islam would say – because the Jinn are jealous of man The Jinn / archon were here first – since Gen 1:2 – then God gave dominion to man Gnostic say – the archon are selfish and desire to be listened too – desire to be worshiped – the archon want to be important Jews say – It happened so that God could reveal Himself Chabad Jews say – It is a love story Eve deliberately sinned – to enter the lower world to complete her assignment – witness (Jer 1:5) – mission work She knew God would not send her – so she chose to serve God The Adam – had a choice stay with God in good standing – or follow his wife into hell ---------------------------------- Dave" Do the BEAST murder carnivores ? Rob" The royal law say something broader, than just no kill (hareg), it says no wounding (ratsach). Exo 20:13 Thou shalt not kill. Exo 20:13 'Thou dost not murder.
H7523 – רָצַח – râtsach – a primitive root; properly to dash in pieces, that is, kill (a human being), especially to murder: - put to death, kill, (man-) slay (-er), murder (-er).
it says no wounding (ratsach). - yep no killing / no murder / no dashing into little pieces
(false speaking of truth) (questioning God) (making excuses) (making a false presentation of truth) (liars) (bullying) These are examples of wounding others,Are these are examples of - to dash in pieces, that is, kill (a human being), especially to murder: - put to death, kill, (man-) slay (-er), murder (-er).NO – your logic is errorAgain your word game is error ----------------------------------------------- Dave" Exodus 20:1 have no other elohiym before my face. What God does Baal bow to? SELF – which is just ignorance of the truth Rob" correct SELF and Selfishness is the biggest opposing thing to GOD. Self – is to deny God’s existence – there is no God – no consequence Self is ignorance of God – choshek Dave" SELF – which is just ignorance of the truth ROb" Ignorance is a sin.Sin = transgression of God commandments ----------------------------------------- Dave" So you must also doubt that angels have existed for 5782 years serving God Dave, how come the arum creatures are allowed to live but the other creatures do not live? Ethereal creatures are not of biology Corporeal creatures are of biology and they all die The archon are of both worlds – I have no idea of their life spans Except – when they are in mortal form – they can be killed – but their spirits remain on earth – so they are still alive ethereally------------------------------------- Dave" Scripture says more than once – the serpent deceived ROb" In my two pennies of thought, deceiving somebody is a sin, is it not? That includes bad salesmen too? Sin – transgression of God’s commandments Your flexible definitions and assumption are measningless to me ----------------------------- Da 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. THis prophecy speaks of the power of the arum creature given power unto a false religion, it's purpose is to deceive humans into a false salvation process. "speak against the Most High" ABSOLUTELY AGREE – who say there is no God but Allan and who can make war against him? ABSOLUTELY AGREE – who says God has no son14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, Islam – the Ottoman Empire – soon to include Europe Demographic WinterBirth rate – required to maintain a culture = 2.11 Birth rate – White Western Christendom = <1.8 Birth rate - Muslims in Europe = 6.8 By 2050 Germany will be a Muslim nation Dave" The opposers / accusers of man YES – I believe scripture Rob" read the prophecy and kingdom world Jesus comes to claim as His. "speak against the Most High" The arum creatures give power to humans to speak against the Most High. Yep – you refuse to know anything about Islam – pretend it has no role in the end times - ------------------ Dave" You teach God died on the Cross You teach God cannot be Christ because Jesus Christ prays to God in heaven ROb" Yes the love power of the divine family was separated, causing the "death process". Yep – separated – more than one – two gods – your teaching Christianity teaches 1 Pet 3:19 – you deny the scriptureDave" Judaism has always seen God a duality ROb" Marriage is duality. I have no problem with the term. The wife can make decisions as if the husband did them. Buy and sell land even. I do – your example includes two There is only one God – Christ is His 3D image Dave" Christian trinity is not a hard step for a Messianic Jew ROb" OK why did Gordon palm me off with polytheism, and said goodbye? One email.Because you preach polytheism – just as the previous sentences states Elohiym is a term describing community as singularity. Because you preach polytheismA family picture, - yes Adam and Eve – you and your wife act as one Adam and Eve are still two individuals – you and your wife are still two individuals Because you preach polytheismROb" Than explain this verse I presented Ge 3:22 ¶ And YHWH Elohiym said, Behold, the Adam Elohiym is become as one of us, to know good and evil: Already answered 1) Christianity teaches the Trinity - ‘us’ = the Trinity 2) Gnostic – it could include any number of different angels I do not an issue with God delegating We have no idea what angels know or don’t know All we know is that the archon know and understand their own fate --------------------------------------------- RobPP" Rob" OK than your serpent cannot be a false elohiym power than, because such a term requires the creature to be able to gnosis both good and evil, hence has to have free will in order to sin, Dave" How does a golden calf made of molten jewelry and trinkets know good and evil? The calf was a father deity representing a family of pagan strong authorities. So a lump of metal is a father of many gods – who – where did they come from Dave" What sin did the golden calf make? What law did this lump of metal transgress? ROb" Are you OK? Since when is the gun itself evil ? Since when can’t a lump of metal be a false elohiym Since why can’t a rock be a false elohiym Surely they know good and evil and have sinned – your rulesSince when can’t another man be a false elohiym What powers of authority were the people seeking, by making the golden bull calf? Re 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the "golden calf": ABSOLUTELY AGREE – the archon desire worship – they require child sacrifice - Humans are just pawns in the powers of the dragon. Agree – the Jinn are described exactly like the Greco-Roman gods – I bet my humans can beat your humans in a war.Hence the Opposer is opposing God, not just opposing humans. It's a game of chess, we are the pawns. Hence the archon / Beast opposes manDave" You make up your assumptions from where – ROb" Eze 20:49 Doth he not speak parables? Nu 23:7 And he took up his parable, Job 27:1 ¶ Moreover Job continued his parable, Ps 49:4 I will incline mine ear to a parable: Ps 78:2 I will open my mouth in a parable: Pr 1:1 ¶ The poetry of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel; Hab 2:6 Shall not all these take up a parable Pr 26:7 The legs of the lame are not equal: so is a parable in the mouth of fools. To bad you don’t understand this one Why nearly every book has poetry in it?So this give you and Ellen White the authority to make up what ever you want? Your poetry analysis of Job is just error Your poetry analysis of Zec 3 is more error Your poetry analysis of 1 Pet 3:19 is gross error Your hold on Ezk 28 is Catholic errorRObPP" SO in my view, if there are other elohiym powers, than Eve was made to sin by watching the serpent sin Himself. Dave" YEP – all you have to do is rewrite scripture to fit you denominational traditions ROb" OK explain who is your elohiym power opposing man than and explain how it is opposing man?Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: a great fiery red dragon that had seven heads and ten horns, and seven royal crowns on his heads. Rev 12:9 ...the great dragon … ancient serpent, called the devil and satan, who deceives the whole world. He was thrown down to the earth, and his angels (messengers / archon) were thrown down with him. The Beast appeared – as a by-product of physical creation The Beast appeared – inherent to physical creation Ready to devour creation Rev 12:4 explain how your elohiym power is opposing man?This is the simplest answer - The Hypostasis of the Archons Moreover, they threw mankind into great distraction and into a life of toil, so that their mankind might be occupied by worldly affairs, and might not have the opportunity of being devoted to the holy spirit. distraction and into a life of toil - be occupied by worldly affairs Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. distraction and into a life of toil - be occupied by worldly affairsEvolution is a false elohiym power – does it know right and wrong? – does it sin? Money is a false elohiym power - does it know right and wrong? – does it sin? Football – your career – your fame – all of it are a distractions No satan required – no possessing of man by satan required – just WORLD Eph 6:12 a Christians real struggle – how does this work? James – sin comes from desire (yester ra) The archon are masters of this world – able to manipulate nature some All young men suffering from (yester ra) desire women / sex – when does it become sin The archon oppose man by – promoting sex in advertising – sex in movies – sex on TV The archon fuel man’s desires The archon oppose man by preaching lies from the christian pulpit You can be a gay transgender lesbian pastor – its OK 1785-1910 the only Good Indian is a dead Indian – can make more pagan babies The archon oppose man by preaching from the Catholic pulpit Crusades – killing millions of Jews and Muslims Inquisition – killing millions of Protestants Priest must be celibate (unqualified to be an elder) The archon oppose man by preaching deception – Darwin All they have to do is effect one man – and a new religion is formed The archon oppose man by popping in with a UFO – abduct some people Fueling mans belief in something other than the truth The archon oppose man by spreading sickness – disease Why does sweet little Jimmy have to die of cancer at age 2? What made the Beubonic Plague of the 1300s so bad? Answer – the church blamed those damn cats – the devils familiar Without the cats – the rat population grew – and the bacteria is carried by a rat flea The archon oppose man by fueling racism - those other guys In ancient days – they were out front as other gods – they could because God left a ignorance vacuum for the 99% - many other gods Today – they are all still here just in different form with different namesCan't be designed that way, - says RobertGod did not create the beast to be both TOV and RA did He? Why can’t the Beast know tov and ra?Joseph Smith healed 40 people one morning before breakfast The Mormon church has 11 documented Miracals in their history and they teach that Jesus and satan were twin brothers – and Jehovah was once a man himself that became enlightened to make his own creation I am sure many Muslims feel like their prayers are heard Why can’t the Beast know tov and ra? The BEAST is arum yet ignorant is a stupid argument - contradictory You need free will to choose to be TOV or RA? Free Will is the choice between God and world – only man has this choiceYet your creatures are agents of RA? Agents of entropy - yep------------------------------------- Dave" (post séance confession of SDA member Roger Mornou) Rob" Well said Dave The humans get their powers from the Opposer. Yep and it causes them great distraction keeping them away from the Holy Spirit----------------------------------------- And the opposing elohiym power opposes the Most High, by providing humans with power NOT from GOD. Here is more of your poetry analysis error Here is more evidence you have no respect for scriptureYou have taken two separate verses from two different places and forced them together to make a doctrine You just invent scripture to fit your denominational tradition------------------------------------------- If humans speak against the Father in heaven, and get their powers from the Opposer, than why do you say Dave :_ "Bingo, proof the Opposer opposes man" Because Islam is a false religion – not leading to salvation in Christ - DUH--------------------------------------- If China is supplying weapons to Russia to fuel the war in Ukraine, then that means CHina is an enemy of the USA who also supplies weapons to the Ukraine? America buys crap from China – China uses the prophets to build a modern army to confront America – sell those weapon to Russia – to use against America
YEP and as my buddy Rich says – it takes a Christian, a Jew, and a Muslim to make the world go around During the second world war, the USA was supplying computers and oil to Hitler, and later came to bomb Hitler to surrender? Weird, this money making business? The dragon can make pawns on both sides, after all the dragon does not care who dies for His cause. YEP – Islam says the archon sits on one general ear – while another Jinn is sitting on the other general – telling then to warDave" So you deny scripture twice – Jesus Christ was not transfigured and biology does inherit the kingdom of heaven ROb" Jesus shines with glory, while in a human body, is anything too hard for the Father to achieve?Dave" So you deny scripture twice – Jesus Christ was not transfigured and biology does inherit the kingdom of heaven Dave" Dave" So intelligent – keep inventing whatever you needROb" How does a lump of gold give man power?Amastad Rothschild 1815 – “He that controls the money – controls the country’Can't you fathom the power the humans seek? Ac 13:10 ...thou child of the devil, Re 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: YES – Allah and Islam is bent on Israel’s destruction gold has no power of it's ownSure it does – it appeals to every man’s (yester ra) desire Jas 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is dragged away and enticed by his own desire. Nor can a human make you a rock star, though some might do this T ell Simon Cowell this – or any agent – or any producer
But an opposer can empower you with fame and fortune, you said so yourself? YES – Dr Faust – Snoop Dog --------------------------------- So my question to you remains the same, in a sinless perfect world, a creature with both a perfect mind and body of flesh (also perfect) needs no trying the free will to sin. Such a mind loves God fully all the time. DO you agree with this idea? Correct – you just described angels – living in heaven - except they have no corporeal body – unless they put one onWhat does this have to do with Gen 3:15? What does this have to do with Deu 8:2? --------------------------------------------- Dave" You have been asked to go through each like about satan and show us how your satan rebels, hates, and opposes God. Again you refuse ROb" I have been doing this?Even this post contains more evidence. ABSOLUTE DECEPTION – you have deliberately avoid any verse with the word satan in it – and have moved on to arguing the BEAST Dave posts again to mock " Dave" Correct – the orgin story of the Beast is not recorded in the OT – it is recorded in the NT Rob" Than the NT torah is invalid. ROb replies again" Dave your beast origin is in the OT torah, it has to be, inorder to make the NT torah make sense. But you deny the verses I show you. cherub sinned The Beast of revelation was never God’s friend – it appeared ready to devourpowers of the Opposer make humans speak against the Most HIgh Father. YEP – and you refuse to discuss Islam in any form----------------- Dave" The only scripture I deny = your version of Ezk 28 If that offends you – Too Bad ROb" You also deny other verses too, Dave 1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. I have answered this many times – if you refuse to listen – your choice------------- Da 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; Da 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: The power from the Opposer, sets up a false salvation power based on changes in the royal laws of GOD Been all over this – long ago – you refuse to hear me becaue I do not have Rome as the center of the world Daniel 8 Prophecy: Ram, Goat, Four Kingdoms, Antichrist Da 7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, God decides to take away this power's dominion Why ? Because the power is opposing God? Because of the Secod Coming of Christ – the Prophesy of Enoch – Christ will return as the LION OF JUDAH
Re 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. Yep – the fall of the Ottoman empire and the internal civil war4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: The world wonders after the false salvation power is set up again, a wound that heals, and the world wonders after the beast and the power the dragon gives to the beast. So the dragon must oppose GOD, if the human salvation system established by the dragon is opposing God. Re 13:4 ...Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? Man boast over the powers the dragon supplies, who can war with the dragon's powers? YEP – as Walid Shoebat said – 666 = Bismallah – there is no god but Allah and who can make war with him?
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Well the good angels were at war with the bad angels. Yep – God and angels – vrs – Allan and his Jinn / archon / devils / satanas / demons / shedimRe 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. This war on earth continues for 42 months. Not some bustle and immediate war like the war in heaven. Not the same war – and you know betterRe 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: Many good humans are killed by the wicked humans, and where does this power come from? The dragon. Why does the dragon wish to kill humans that do not sin? Because they refuse to bow to Allah1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Doesn’t mean you will keep your headRev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and people sat upon them—those to whom authority to judge was given. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Yeshua and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image, nor had they received his mark on their forehead or on their hand. And they came to life and reigned with the Messiah for a thousand years.
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Post by rob on Sept 9, 2023 6:18:20 GMT -5
Greetings Dave Thank you for your scholarly input, having read the link. Sure it doesn't read prove the NT was written in Hebrew, but does evaluate it wasn't written in Greek. Jeff Benner also sees the NT originally written in Hebrew, but this is all recent research, not popular at the moment.
Dave" If and Why – questioning scripture – is evidence of doubt Rob" David Icke said "what if" is a good way to test your theory. Why can't you answer the question I pose to you?
Sure Microsoft hires 200 young hackers to spoil their software, and than fix the obvious hacks. In a perfect world, the software should run forever. However we don't live in a perfect world, hence God desires to try his humans that He saves. I understand this, for an imperfect world, the mind is willing but the flesh is weak.
Dave" My view = God created a finely tuned multiverse so that life could thrive – as uncovered by Roman 1:19-20 Rob" yes same as my view, all designed to work well even if sinning should come in later and spoil things a little. That is clever designing on the part of God. He sees into the future and plans accordingly for it.
Dave" Just religious posturing on your part ROb" sorry Dave. Dave" Over and over I have answered the same question over and over
Rob" Oh, OK, let's talk about something else than. The end of time is coming rapidly upon us, you're a prepper like me, so let's discuss the end of time and the Second Coming of Jesus. How are you preparing yourself and your family?
I would love to consider more about your views of end time prophecy, and especially the involvement of Israel.
I do not know much about this.
Dave" ABSOLUTELY CORRECT – who can oppose God – No One I thought I had made this clear by now Rob" You have made this clear, no need to discuss it any further, your views are clear to me, though I disagree with them, it's your choice.
Dave" Just as was promised to Jesus - the WORLD and WORDLY PLEASURES It is all that the BEAST has to offer ROb" I see.
Dave" What is this – have no idea what your asking – do you know? Dave posts later "Ethereal creatures are not of biology The archon are of both worlds – I have no idea of their life spans Rob" I see, so the archons cannot die, even if they are old?
Dave" – your logic is error Again your word game is error Rob" Maybe? I won't push Jeff Benner principles unto you. --------------- Dave" I do – your example includes two There is only one God – Christ is His 3D image ROb" I see. Why does Jesus pray to the Father, if they are the same entity? When you say the two are two, is a denial of Scripture isn't it? Ge 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Two becomes One. I see singularity here. You see two, which is not Hebrew thinking.
Dave" Because you preach polytheism – just as the previous sentences states ROb" I see, and you preach three expressions of the same Father? Dave" Adam and Eve are still two individuals – you and your wife are still two individuals Because you preach polytheism Rob " in an imperfect world, yes I agree with you, but in a sinless world, God considers the two as one. No one works independently without considering the other. Something unheard of in our sinning world.
Dave" I do not an issue with God delegating Rob" Not talking about this idea.
God defines elohiym as somebody that knows good and evil.
Adam became elohiym, knowing good and evil, like God who is also able to know good and evil.
Elohiym says Adam has become like "us", knowing good and evil. So the "us" has to know good and evil, can't be angels. Because angels do not know evil. Does this make sense to you? God is not delegating.
Dave" We have no idea what angels know or don’t know Rob" Well they cannot know sin, because the Scriptures would say so, and your angels have no free will anyway.
Dave" Surely they know good and evil and have sinned – your rules Rob" Hmm?
Dave" ABSOLUTELY AGREE – the archon desire worship – they require child sacrifice - ROb" And this desire of the archons does not bother you?
DO you think making the child lose it's life, fair to the child? Would God approve of the child losing it's life?
Because of some archons desire from humans who are willing to kill their child?
Dave" Your poetry analysis of Job is just error Your poetry analysis of Zec 3 is more error Rob" Hmm? Than we cannot discuss Bible poetic verses can we, because we can never agree to the poetry similes and symbolism? Doesn't the Bible answer these questions? Don't you believe in sola scriptora?
Dave" This is the simplest answer - The Hypostasis of the Archons Moreover, they threw mankind into great distraction and into a life of toil, so that their mankind might be occupied by worldly affairs, and might not have the opportunity of being devoted to the holy spirit.
distraction and into a life of toil - be occupied by worldly affairs Rob" I see. What does the Bible say?
Da 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High,
Re 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast:
Re 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them:
Mt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Scripture says to read Daniel and Revelation together, one unlocks the poetry symbols of the other.
The dragon hunts down saints of the Most High Father and kills them. This is much worst than your Gnostic writings has to say.
Dave" Evolution is a false elohiym power – does it know right and wrong? – does it sin? Money is a false elohiym power - does it know right and wrong? – does it sin? Football – your career – your fame – all of it are a distractions
No satan required – no possessing of man by satan required – just WORLD Rob" I see.
Dave" The archon oppose man by – promoting sex in advertising – sex in movies – sex on TV The archon fuel man’s desires
The archon oppose man by preaching lies from the christian pulpit You can be a gay transgender lesbian pastor – its OK ROb" I see.
Dave" Today – they are all still here just in different form with different names ROb" I see.
Dave" The BEAST is arum yet ignorant is a stupid argument - contradictory Why can’t the Beast know tov and ra? Rob" I see, so your false elohiym power, knows good and evil, but does not morally sin, like humans do?
isn't this different to how God defines elohiym power, knowing good and evil, by sinning?
Dave" You have taken two separate verses from two different places and forced them together to make a doctrine
You just invent scripture to fit your denominational tradition Rob" I see.
Dave" Because Islam is a false religion – not leading to salvation in Christ - DUH Rob" ANd this robbing man of true salvation does not bother you or bother God?
Proof these arum creatures oppose God because they are taking away humans that could be saved?
Dave" YEP – Islam says the archon sits on one general ear – while another Jinn is sitting on the other general – telling then to war Rob" I see.
Dave" ABSOLUTE DECEPTION – you have deliberately avoid any verse with the word satan in it – and have moved on to arguing the BEAST Rob" I see.
You speak of the Islam in prophecy.
I will get back to some verses using the Hebrew word STN than, and your Satanas in the NT, looking for evidence the verse speaks of the power opposing God.
Thanks for your comments.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 9, 2023 13:05:20 GMT -5
Thank you for your scholarly input, having read the link. Sure it doesn't read prove the NT was written in Hebrew Rob: If you study - www.eaglefeather.org - you will find the primary language of the apostles was hebrew, that Jesus spoke Hebrew and the NT torah was orginally written in Hebrew. Why do you lie and misrepresent others? Is this a mandate to be an Ellen White follower? Do you think you gain respect by being less than honest?This is the problem with Christendom The church has spoken so many lies over the years – no one believes anything they say now. Is this why Don Patton is your favorite guy - it is his sales approach. ------------------------------------------- Dave" My view = God created a finely tuned multiverse so that life could thrive – as uncovered by Roman 1:19-20 Rob" yes same as my view, all designed to work well even if sinning should come in later and spoil things a little. Make up your mind – this is a fallen world corrupted by sin Or it is as exactly as God intended That is clever designing on the part of God. He sees into the future and plans accordingly for it.OH – except for Eve – you teach Oh – and except for your Ezk 28 Catholic satan god------------------------------------------ Dave" Over and over I have answered the same question over and over Rob" Oh, OK, let's talk about something else than.YES – there are question on the table for you – go for it Let’s address Ellen White’s Covenant theology – you teach it – so defend it
Dave" ABSOLUTELY CORRECT – who can oppose God – No One I thought I had made this clear by now Rob" You have made this clear, no need to discuss it any further, your views are clear to me, though I disagree with them, it's your choice. Your teaching that a man can oppose God is insulting Your teaching that an angel can oppose God disrespectful You teach a weak God – angels can force God to change – react – defend himself Worse – you teach that your satan can prevent God from reaching down
Dave posts later "Ethereal creatures are not of biology The archon are of both worlds – I have no idea of their life spans Rob" I see, so the archons cannot die, even if they are old? Do angels die of old age – if the angel Michael appear to you – would he be a really old piece of biology Your teaching is insulting – you mock God and his angels
Dave" – your logic is error Again your word game is error Rob" Maybe? I won't push Jeff Benner principles unto you. You do not understand Jeff Brenner His efforts to illuminate the root – does not give you the right to rewrite scripture in your own favorYou are not an honest academic You do not let scripture speak You choose what you want it to say – then use words to force scripture into your moldI mean this with academic certainty Instead of going through each verse about satan – to prove he rebels, hates, and opposes God You go to the hate and then try to blame it on your satan--------------- Dave" I do – your example includes two There is only one God – Christ is His 3D image ROb" I see. Why does Jesus pray to the Father, if they are the same entity? When you say the two are two, is a denial of Scripture isn't it? Jesus is recorded praying 29 times 27 of those times – it is an example of communion in spirit To be be silent and be one with God – praying in the spirit
You deny the spirit and cannot relate to this – you think prayers are filled with the correct words – that is how amunah id done
And then the two prayers that prove Jesus Christ was full human with (yester ra) – self survival spoke up
Matthew 26:39 And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will.”
Not my bodies will (yester ra) but (yester tov) God’s Will
Matthew 26:42 He went away again a second time and prayed, saying, “My Father, if this cannot pass away unless I drink it, Your will be done.”
Not my bodies will (yester ra) but (yester tov) God’s Will------------------------------------- Ge 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. Two becomes One. I see singularity here. You see two, which is not Hebrew thinking. Robert’s word game – the two are united in unity – correct Still one independent male + one independent female Dave" Adam and Eve are still two individuals – you and your wife are still two individuals Because you preach polytheism Rob " in an imperfect world, yes I agree with you, but in a sinless world, God considers the two as one. No one works independently without considering the other. Something unheard of in our sinning world. Sure Robert – all we have to do is jump into fantasy land and you would be correct
Why is it impossible to discuss reality with you?Dave" Because you preach polytheism – just as the previous sentences states ROb" I see, and you preach three expressions of the same Father? YEP – the 3 are 1 = Trinity You tried to disparage scripture by calling it modality OT who is the creator = God the father NT who is the creator = Christ the son So who is the real Creator – God or Christ? Answer – YHWY-YESUAH OT who is the only savior = God NT who is the only savior = Christ Dave" I do not an issue with God delegating Rob" Not talking about this idea. Sure we are – the question is who is the ‘us’ in Gen 1:26So the "us" has to know good and evil, can't be angels. Because angels do not know evil. Does this make sense to you? The idea that an angel would not recognize evil if they saw it is just childish – your teaching that angels are stupid beings is childish. You really know what the angels aknow and don’t know? Just sounds like an arrogant man talking out his ass Dave" We have no idea what angels know or don’t know Rob" Well they cannot know sin, because the Scriptures would say so, and your angels have no free will anyway. NO – they don’t do sin – because they are programmed / created to serve and praiseDave" ABSOLUTELY AGREE – the archon desire worship – they require child sacrifice - ROb" And this desire of the archons does not bother you? It is our real struggle – they are a distractionDO you think making the child lose it's life, fair to the child? Because of some archons desire from humans who are willing to kill their child? Would God approve of the child losing it's life? Exactly why the Jews see a God of love as fairIs it fair that Job’s children died during the testing of Job? Is it fair that little Jimmy must die of caner at age 2 What of infants? This is why Jews teach the concept of reincarnation – because God is fair. We all have an equal opportunity to wake up from our fog of flesh and choose the Lord. ----------------------------------------------- Dave" Your poetry analysis of Job is just error Your poetry analysis of Zec 3 is more error Rob" Hmm? Than we cannot discuss Bible poetic verses can we, because we can never agree to the poetry similes and symbolism? Doesn't the Bible answer these questions? Don't you believe in sola scriptora? Dave" This is the simplest answer - The Hypostasis of the Archons Moreover, they threw mankind into great distraction and into a life of toil, so that their mankind might be occupied by worldly affairs, and might not have the opportunity of being devoted to the holy spirit. distraction and into a life of toil - be occupied by worldly affairsRob" I see. What does the Bible say?Da 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, Bingo – exegetical error – inventing your own scriptureI am speaking about Gen 3:15 – the beginning You drag in verses about the end times Is it relevant? Re 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: I am speaking about Gen 3:15 – the beginning You drag in verses about the end times Is it relevant? Re 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: I am speaking about Gen 3:15 – the beginning You drag in verses about the end times Is it relevant? Mt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Scripture says to read Daniel and Revelation together, one unlocks the poetry symbols of the other. Correct - I am speaking about Gen 3:15 – the beginning You drag in verses about the end times Is it relevant?The dragon hunts down saints of the Most High Father and kills them. This is much worst than your Gnostic writings has to say. YES – much worse that what the Nag Hammadi says But exactly as Enoch prophesied Jud 1:14 It was also about these people that Enoch, the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord came with myriads of His kedoshim, Jud 1:15 to execute judgment against all. He will convict all the ungodly for all their ungodly deeds that they have done in an ungodly way, and for all of the harsh things ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.” Jud 1:16 These are bellyaching grumblers, following after their own desires. Their mouth speaks grandiose things, showing favoritism for the sake of gain. But say it is all garbage and refuse to read it with me------------- Dave" The BEAST is arum yet ignorant is a stupid argument - contradictory Why can’t the Beast know tov and ra? Rob" I see, so your false elohiym power, knows good and evil, but does not morally sin, like humans do?
isn't this different to how God defines elohiym power, knowing good and evil, by sinning?Does God have to know sinning to know tov and ra?Why do angels have to sin to know tov and ra?Where do you get these rules from? You just invent stuff to support your doctrine ------------------------------- Dave" You have taken two separate verses from two different places and forced them together to make a doctrine You just invent scripture to fit your denominational tradition Rob" I see. studydrivenfaith.org/2016/12/an-overview-of-exegetical-fallacies/An Overview of Exegetical FallaciesAbstract —Biblical interpretation is susceptible to false premises in the process of exegesis by violating laws of language and logic, and maintaining faulty presuppositions. Wrong understanding of the principles of language, errors in understanding word definitions and usage, the proper governance of context, or grammar lead to incorrect conclusions about meaning. Concerning the laws of logic, principles of argumentation, premises, and reasoning are sometimes neglected or distorted, resulting in false conclusions. Regarding presuppositions, one’s preunderstanding or prior biases can skew the way that a person approaches the text and the specific preconceived notions they bring with them when seek to determine meaning. maintaining faulty presuppositions violating context and grammar lead to incorrect conclusions
Concerning the laws of logic, principles of argumentation, premises, and reasoning are sometimes neglected or distorted, resulting in false conclusions.
Regarding presuppositions, one’s preunderstanding or prior biases can skew the way that a person approaches the text and the specific preconceived notions they bring with them when seek to determine meaning. So the opponent is only an opponent to Job, in Job's story? Fair enough So where would you go looking to see if "opponent" actually "opposes" GOD? Line upon line, here and there, remember, how to read Scripture? You have a conclusion – satan opposes God – then you set out to prove itYou attempted to do the same with the word ‘archie’ It only means ‘the beginning’ and you set out to prove itYou can “prove” almost any false teaching this way – selecting individual verses to support a theme This is why scripture must validate itself – precept upon precept, line upon line ------------------------------------------------- Dave" Because Islam is a false religion – not leading to salvation in Christ - DUH Rob" ANd this robbing man of true salvation does not bother you or bother God? Proof these arum creatures oppose God because they are taking away humans that could be saved? The only way this is true – is if God has lost control You deny
God is in control – this end times battle was God’s Will from the very beginning – always God’s Plan Who raise up the Chaldeans in the last days – Christ does
Are you suggesting that the last battle is between Christ and God? (that is Bahai adventism)Or is God in control – playing two sides together to form a crucible for the truthGod did it in Egypt – sent Moses onto Pharaoh and then God hardened Pharaoh's heart God does it all the way through the OT – the 1% vrs the 99% The end times are no different – the 1% vrs the 99% - Jews (Israel) vrs Islam As Walid Shobet said – read the scripture – every nation Christ fights against is a Muslim country--------------------------------------------- You say ii is helpful to play what if games Esoteric what if As you said – the spirit of man has been alive for 5782 years – but each biological souljourn = only 60/70 years + Reincarnation of the innocent – to be fair to everyone Esoteric what if every man has had a change to find God as: A rich man, a poor man, a victum, a villian, a soldier taking a life, a soldier giving his life, to die of sickness early or live long enough to see everyone you love die away = everyone has an equal chance to find God Esoteric what ifToday’s population bomb – approaching the carrying capacity of the planet What is this represents everyone who has ever lived – all alive again now at once Christ comes to separate the chosen from the lost What is all the chosen are born Judeo-Christian and the lost are born Muslim Setting up the final battle between “the sons of light vrs the sons of darkness” – Dead Sea Scrolls – War Scroll Corinthians 15:24-26, “Then the end will come when he hands over the Kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he has put everything under his feet.” Philippians 2:9-11 the scripture tells us that Jesus will be exalted above every other name, and every knee will bow at the mention of his name: “Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” The final battle – separating the wheat from the chaffWhat is the delay? 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise, as some consider slowness. Rather, He is being patient toward you—not wanting anyone to perish, but for all to come to repentance. Conversion between the two sides is not yet complete---------------------------------------- Is Allah the Beast of Revelation – NOThe Beast exist in a plurality – he has an army of many archon – of many shapes and sizes – both visible to man and invisible But Allah is one of the Beast’s generals in command of a specific area Allah is NOT THE SATAN – but is a satanasThe ‘sar’ of Persian – Dan 10:13 – an archon prince in charge of a specific area The Beast exist in a plurality – he has an army of many archon Allah may still not be the “prince” of the WORLD Maybe he is just the “prince” of the Middle East / ‘prince’ of Islam a satanas – a devil – a serpent – in charge of a specific area ------------------------------------ Dave" ABSOLUTE DECEPTION – you have deliberately avoid any verse with the word satan in it – and have moved on to arguing the BEAST Rob" I see. I will get back to some verses using the Hebrew word STN than, and your Satanas in the NT, looking for evidence the verse speaks of the power opposing God.Yes be honest and objective and begin again with the OT and you stated goal is to prove your satan rebels, hates, and opposes God2Sa 24:1 Now the anger of Adonai again flared up against Israel, 1Ch 21:1 Then satan stood up against Israel God is satan Himself – or satan works for the Lord Does your satan rebel against God – hate or oppose God – NoThe Book of Job – Yes satan does a dirt job for the Lord God allowed it – God instigated it – God set it in motion Does your satan rebel against God – hate or oppose God – NoHe does asked he is asked / told / obedient Zec 3 – satan the prosecutor opposing Joshua God said – stand down satan – Divine Pardon granted Did you satan rebel, hate, or oppose God?No He does asked he is asked / told / obedient Hebrew satan G4566 in the NT 2Co 12:7 even in the extraordinary quality of the revelations. So that I would not exalt myself, a thorn in the flesh was given to me— a messenger of satan to torment me, so I would not exalt myself. A reminder to be humble – a warring from the prosecutor – accusing / causing guilt How does this prove your satan rebels, hates, or opposes God? Thanks for your comments. Just trying my best to be patient with you and witness the best I can You sure make that difficult with your level of disrespect and lack of honesty------------------------------------------------- Dave" The story of the Prodigal son – the son ventures off into the world – to remember heaven and God – then return to give God divine joy ROb" the arum beast is a creature of God doing RA things, why can't the creature return to God and give GOD divine joy? Why are so many thrown into the Lake of Fire? Obviously there a limits to God's grace. Yep – you teach defeatism – you are a doubter Your witness – come be a christian – but you probably wont be saved anyway It is an Ellen White satatanic message
Rev 20:8 and he shall come out to deceive the nations at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for the battle. Their number is like the sand of the sea. Rev 20:9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the kedoshim and the beloved city—but fire fell from heaven and consumed them. Rev 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are too, and they shall be tortured day and night forever and ever. I see the three ring leaders I see the ‘ab’ father of entropy I see the ‘sar’ / archon / serpent in charge of deceiving those opposing Israel I see a false profit
The rest are judged by works
As you pointed outRob - Satan also and evil angels are judged by Christ and His people. Says Paul, “Know ye not that we shall judge angels?” 1 Corinthians 6:3.8How would true Christ like Christians judge? Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. Evidently Ellen White has taught you it is more Christ like to damn everyone to hell – take revenge – get pay backThis sounds like a satanic message to me------------------------------------------------------------ During the second world war, the USA was supplying computers and oil to Hitler, and later came to bomb Hitler to surrender? Weird, this money making business?
The dragon can make pawns on both sides, after all the dragon does not care who dies for His cause. I wanted to share the story of Prescott Bush – t he father of Herbert Walker Bush – the grandfather of George BushWho was found guilty of treason for working with a German company named I. G. Farbin – during the war I. G. Farbin had some famous employees – like Joseph Mengela ponderingconfusion.com/papers.php?id=orthodoxmedAll together, the Nuremberg Tribunal convicted 24 IG Farben board members and executives on the basis of mass murder, slavery and other crimes. The Nuremberg Tribunal dissolved IG Farben into BASF, Bayer and Hoechst (Sanofi-Aventis), each company 20 times as large as IG Farben in 1944. For almost three decades after WWII, the chairmen of the board for each of these companies were former members of the Nazi regime. (Source Watch, Pharmaceutical industry (2009), http://www.sourcewatch.org) With Rockerfellerian investment, other I.G. Farben corporations survived within the alliance. Well known companies such as General Mills, Kellogg, Nestle, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Procter and Gamble, and Roche . (Hauns Ruesch, The Truth About the Rockefeller Drug Empire: The Drug Story (Fall-Winter 1993), CIVIS Foundation Report number 15, Massagno/Lugano, Switzerland, www.healingcancernaturally.com/rockefeller-drug-empire-story.html)This is from a paper I wrote long ago 08/23/2010 Who Ordained Orthodox Medicine and where did it come from? ponderingconfusion.com/papers.php?id=orthodoxmedIt is long – but you can skip down to “John D. Rockefeller.” - Post-Civil War America” to follow the money
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Post by rob on Sept 9, 2023 17:23:53 GMT -5
Greetings Dave I studied Lancaster's work many years ago, showing the faults (hundreds of them) in the Greek translation. Jeff Benner considers Aramaic similar to Hebrew, and I agree with him. My problem is you are very fixated in your proof, hence my comments. I was not lying to you, or presenting false ideas. As I said this kind of research is new, as Jeff Benner explains. My biggest proof the Greek is a translation is from the OT torah itself. Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. The Hebrew is spoken to the people in another tongue. This verse is used by Paul 1Co 14:21 ¶ In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Paul is talking about speaking in other tongues like Greek. Paul is not talking about writing in other tongues like Kione Greek, because the holy writings were not written in Greek. 1Co 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; When a Gentile Jew went to the Jewish Assembly, they heard the sermons in Hebrew, and the scrolls were also in Hebrew. Jeff Benner points this out using a piece found in a 200AD battle when a piece of jargon was written in Hebrew "he isn't here" proving the Hebrew was alive and well. Also we have the word "translate" in the NT, a word not found in the OT. Lu 24:27 And <kai> beginning <archomai> at <apo> Moses <Moseus> and <kai> <apo> all <pas> the prophets <prophetes>, he expounded <diermeneuo> unto them <autos> in <en> all <pas> the scriptures <graphe> the things concerning <peri> himself <heautou>. The word in Greek is "diermeneuo" and all the verses are here:- Ac 9:36 ¶ Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas: Ac 9:36 ¶ Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by "translation" is called Dorcas: 1Co 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 1Co 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all "translate"? A translator is another word for one who interprets. I am trying to be consistent, the translators are not. 1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret "translate", that the church may receive edifying. When somebody speaks Greek in the Jewish assembly, there is required a translator to speak to the others in Hebrew, so they learn. 1Co 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret "translate". 1Co 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret "translate" Joh 5:2 Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches. Somebody is re-writing John from Hebrew into Greek, as this verse suggests. Joh 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha. Somebody is re-writing John from Hebrew into Greek, as this verse suggests. Joh 19:17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha: Somebody is re-writing John from Hebrew into Greek, as this verse suggests. Joh 19:20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin. Only three languages existed in Joh's time, not Aramaic, hence Lancaster is really proving Hebrew was the primary language of the NT. Dave" The church has spoken so many lies over the years – no one believes anything they say now.
Is this why Don Patton is your favorite guy - it is his sales approach.Rob" How rude of you to speak of Don Patton like this, have you watched his evidence on the man tracks in dinosaur tracks? Try and place him as a whole, watch all his videos first with an open mind. I do not call your David Icke like that, or Rabbi Singer. Have some respect, even for your enemies. --------------------------------- DISPENSATIONALISM vs. COVENANT THEOLOGY ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/596/dispensationalism-covenant-theology?page=1&scrollTo=9144----------------read this next week----------------- Dave" Do angels die of old age – if the angel Michael appear to you – would he be a really old piece of biologyRob" Sinless creatures never die Dave, nor age. Michael would look like a youthful angel, despite the passing of time. Dave" You do not understand Jeff Brenner His efforts to illuminate the root – does not give you the right to rewrite scripture in your own favorROb" What cheek, I understand a lot of Jeff Benner, have over 20 of his books as downloads and studied them all. Dave" You choose what you want it to say – then use words to force scripture into your mold
I mean this with academic certaintyROb" Hmm? maybe, I notice the word STN comes with prefix, and these affect the WHAT? meaning of the word as translators suggest? Hmm? I will have to meet some Hebrew and Greek scholars personally and ask them for much time to explain some things. Sadly no electronic Bible allows one to study prefix with words easily. Its hard. I have made mistakes with the electronic Bible I have, but I am willing to study words. I still think prefixs do not change the word meanings, they only change the nuances in the sentence. I was studying Psalm 109 for instance, there are many verses with "STN verb/noun" in them, all commentaries use "accuser", the LXX uses "devil" so it's hard to make scholarship with you. The whole Psalm is about STN opposing God. Jesus should be at our right hand. Ex 15:6 Thy right hand, O LORD, is become glorious in power: De 33:2 And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, ...from his right hand went a fiery law for them. God rules humans as straight with His right hand, as a firey law. The Opposer rules wicked humans also at their right hand, is the whole context of Psalm 109. Proof, the Opposer is opposing God, by providing wicked humans with a different power that God Himself would provide. Ps 109:5 And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love. God's right hand is fellowship love The Opposers right hand is hatred for fellowship love. Ps 109:26 Help me, O LORD my God: O save me according to thy mercy: David prays for YASHA, the Saviour to save him from the Opposer. Ps 109:29 Let mine opposers be clothed with shame, David prays for YASHA to deal with his opposers. Ps 109:31 For he shall stand at the right hand of the poor, to save (Yasha) How such a poem tells us much about the nature of the Opposer. ----------this one Psalm proves the Opposer opposes God------- Dave" 27 of those times – it is an example of communion in spiritROb" Communion is a relationship word, how can the Father pray to the Father and thus have communion with yourself? Not possible Dave. Dave" Matthew 26:39 And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will.”
Not my bodies will (yester ra) but (yester tov) God’s WillRob" wow, you make up stuff. You even use yester ra and yester tov, phrases which do not exist in the Hebrew like this. So the body of Jesus was talking to the spirit of Jesus? Or the Father prayed so the Mind of the Father would what the Father's human body did not want to do? Right Dave. You make up stuff. You do not respect peotry parrallels either. Abram and his one and only Son, is a parallel about The Father and his one and only Son. You violate the word "born" as in Luke 1 :35 SO the Father came over the Father, the right hand and the left hand both came, and made born the Father in human cladding, called the Father as a Son. I see this word "born" literally, as heavenly parents. You really play havoc with Scripture word meanings. SO a SON (bar) does not mean a son, it means the expression of the parent? Poetry can do similes, parallels and also make literal meanings. It's clever use of words, passages and even whole sentences. They are also personifications. Dave" Robert’s word game – the two are united in unity – correct Still one independent male + one independent femaleRob" NO Dave. Le 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness. What does this verse mean? Explain it to me. Dave" Sure Robert – all we have to do is jump into fantasy land and you would be correct
Why is it impossible to discuss reality with you?ROb" Because Hebrew is the language of heaven, where SINLESSNESS is. Ideal world, far different to our sinning world. Try to read the Hebrew from a heavenly view. Originally the woman was inside the man, and the LORD built the woman from the man. They are not two beings, or really even two persons. If God took a man out of Adam and placed him beside Adam, would Adam have been lonely? Identical clones, identical loving personalities. One person in two copies. Adam would have been lonely still. Nor could Adam show love, how can you love yourself? SO you two or three expressions idea is bogus. That is why God built the second copy with a different personality of loving. Now the couples have relational love, provider love and responder love. ---------------- Dave" The idea that an angel would not recognize evil if they saw it is just childish – your teaching that angels are stupid beings is childish.ROb" Did Eve recognize evil Dave? No DId the other sinless angels recognize the one angel who became arum? NO That is why so many fell into sinning along with the chief angel who sinned. A sinner has certain advantages over a sinless person. They can deceive, make truth and error mixed, twist. etc. A child does not see the stove is hot until he touches it. And the operative word is this verse is "YADA" the word that also have sexual meanings to it, so the real meaning of all contexts is to be intimate with. Sure angels might be wary of evil, they can never be Intimate with evil, unless they sin themselves. I can never experience drugs unless I take drugs, so my experience is limited, yet I am wary of taking them, as it is wrong. So I have never yada drugs. You cannot really yada RA, unless you are doing RA morally with free will intent. Your archons who you say are designed to do both good and evil, cannot YADA RA unless they are morally choosing RA as a sinning action implies. So your premise about them is wrong. 1 JOhn 3:8 is a verse you deny. The devil sins like humans sin. Dave" You really know what the angels aknow and don’t know? Just sounds like an arrogant man talking out his assROb" Yes Dave. You speak of "yada" as to "know" it means more than to "know", you also have to be intimate with the experience. Dave" NO – they don’t do sin – because they are programmed / created to serve and praiseROb" I pity your logic. SO these robotic creatures around God are your "us" in Genesis account, now the Adam elohiym has become like us, the YHWH elohiym. meaning angels, as robots? I don't think so. Dave" This is why Jews teach the concept of reincarnation – because God is fair.ROb" WHy not teach raising them from the dead and giving them back to their parents? In the next after life place on earth, renewed this time without sin. Dave" Bingo – exegetical error – inventing your own scriptureRob" brief remark Dave. Dave" You drag in verses about the end times Is it relevant?ROb" you are so difficult arn't you, Scripture says here a little there a little, how else do you read Scripture Dave. Only by the verses you have at that time? Why did Jesus afterwards tell the meanings to the disicples of the parables in the poems? So these after verses are not allowed to be used? Scripture tells us use Daniel to explain Revelation. Dave" Correct - I am speaking about Gen 3:15 – the beginning You drag in verses about the end times Is it relevant?ROb" What? strike the head first, trample the foot last. What are you saying Dave? Dave" Does God have to know sinning to know tov and ra?Rob" NO but creatures have to. How else can they know (be imtimate) with RA as an experience? God is not a creature, so I see a difference here. Dave" Why do angels have to sin to know tov and ra?ROb" because they are creatures. Dave" Where do you get these rules from?ROb" From Scripture, the Cherub sinned, tells me where the knowing RA came from. Dave" You just invent stuff to support your doctrineROb" No I use scripture as it reads. You deny this verse and others. ---------------------------- Dave posts " Wrong understanding of the principles of language, errors in understanding word definitions and usage, the proper governance of context, or grammar lead to incorrect conclusions about meaning.I will study you link and get back to you ----------------------------- Dave" You attempted to do the same with the word ‘archie’ It only means ‘the beginning’ and you set out to prove it
You can “prove” almost any false teaching this way – selecting individual verses to support a theme
This is why scripture must validate itself – precept upon precept, line upon lineRob" I see, does this link also define words, with single basic meaning regardless of its context? small nuances aside? How many translators understand this one principle? Dave" Who raise up the Chaldeans in the last days – Christ does
Are you suggesting that the last battle is between Christ and God? (that is Bahai adventism)Rob" NO, when Jesus raises up antichrist, he does so to make humans wake up out of sleep, otherwise the Opposer will live forever and Jesus will fail. So Jesus raises up antichrist on purpose, to make humans wake up. All Jesus has to do is remove the hedge of protection from all over the earth. Got nothing to do with empowering the Opposer, try reading Job differently and the purpose of the hedge. Dave" What is the delay? 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise, as some consider slowness. Rather, He is being patient toward you—not wanting anyone to perish, but for all to come to repentance.
Conversion between the two sides is not yet completeRob" Nice Dave" Allah is NOT THE SATAN – but is a satanas
The ‘sar’ of Persian – Dan 10:13 – an archon prince in charge of a specific area
The Beast exist in a plurality – he has an army of many archon
Allah may still not be the “prince” of the WORLD Maybe he is just the “prince” of the Middle East / ‘prince’ of Islam a satanas – a devil – a serpent – in charge of a specific areaRob" I see thank you for this Dave" Yes be honest and objective and begin again with the OT and you stated goal is to prove your satan rebels, hates, and opposes GodROb" OK Dave" Just trying my best to be patient with you and witness the best I can You sure make that difficult with your level of disrespect and lack of honestyRob" I see, and what exactly would I have to find to prove your Satanas beast is opposing GOD? ----------------------- I will read your links next week after I go to work they seem interesting indeed Shalom for now, take your time over my post, and I have much reading to do.
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Post by Dave on Sept 9, 2023 21:47:21 GMT -5
Joh 19:20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
Only three languages existed in Joh's time, not Aramaic, hence Lancaster is really proving Hebrew was the primary language of the NT.
Absolute nonsense – at Pentecost as many as 70 to 250 languages were spoken -------------------------------------------
Dave" The church has spoken so many lies over the years – no one believes anything they say now. Is this why Don Patton is your favorite guy - it is his sales approach.
Rob" How rude of you to speak of Don Patton like this, have you watched his evidence on the man tracks in dinosaur tracks? Try and place him as a whole, watch all his videos first with an open mind.
I have watched and read everything you have suggested Don Patton is a pseudo-science charlatan - a bafoon
Science says - a spider died and did not decay for 100,0000 years as thesediment slowly covered it to make a fossil
Science say – lay a fish in the back yard – and you can watch it turn into a fossil
Science says - Mt St Hellens carved a canyon 650 million years old in one afternoon
Don Patton proudly presented his fossilized cowboy boot That the health department forced him to retract – because it was NOT a fossil – it was a lime covered rotting bone
I do not call your David Icke like that, or Rabbi Singer. Have some respect, even for your enemies.
If David Ike spoke lies – I would not suggest him If Rabbi Singer spoke lies – I would not suggest him and he would not be a Rabbi
I do proudly stand for the truth and God I will stand toe to toe against any false prophet and I am offended by people who pollute the truth ---------------------------------
Dave" You do not understand Jeff Brenner His efforts to illuminate the root – does not give you the right to rewrite scripture in your own favor ROb" What cheek, I understand a lot of Jeff Benner, have over 20 of his books as downloads and studied them all.
I have also read some of Jeff Brenner – he is 100% an academic – he is limited by boundaries – context You say grammar or context mean nothing You criticize him for allowing theology to have precedence over words ----------------------------------------------------------
Dave" You choose what you want it to say – then use words to force scripture into your mold
I mean this with academic certainty ROb" Hmm? maybe, I notice the word STN comes with prefix, and these affect the WHAT? meaning of the word as translators suggest? Hmm? I will have to meet some Hebrew and Greek scholars personally and ask them for much time to explain some things.
Sadly no electronic Bible allows one to study prefix with words easily. Its hard. I have made mistakes with the electronic Bible I have, but I am willing to study words.
LEARN TO TRANSLATE and the materials you seek will be your personal homework
Yes the software does exist – you thought $25USD was too much You must use reference book as well – lexicons – and a GRAMMAR!
I still think prefixs do not change the word meanings, they only change the nuances in the sentence.
I was studying Psalm 109 for instance, there are many verses with "STN verb/noun" in them, all commentaries use "accuser", the LXX uses "devil" so it's hard to make scholarship with you.
The whole Psalm is about STN opposing God.
I know you want it to be satan opposing God But - The whole Psalm is about satan – the world – opposing David in the wilderness
Jason Silver
How such a poem tells us much about the nature of the Opposer. The whole Psalm is about the opposer satan – the world – opposing David in the wilderness -------------------------------
Dave" 27 of those times – it is an example of communion in spirit ROb" Communion is a relationship word, how can the Father pray to the Father and thus have communion with yourself? Not possible Dave.
Neh 5:7 Then I consulted with myself, Neh 5:7 I pondered them in my heart Neh 5:7 and my heart reigneth over me, Neh 5:7 Then I consulted with myself,
Impossible you say To be quite and one with the Lord in spirit – impossible you say To be quite and allow the Lord to speak to your heart – impossible you say ----------------------------------------
Dave" Matthew 26:39 And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will.”
Not my bodies will (yester ra) but (yester tov) God’s Will Rob" wow, You even use yester ra and yester tov, phrases which do not exist in the Hebrew like this.
YEP – proof that Jesus was 100% Son of man – for a brief moment he paused to consider self-preservation (yester ra) Yep – proof that Jesus Christ chose to accept what must be – God’s Will (yester tov) ------------------------------------------
You violate the word "born" as in Luke 1 :35
SO the Father came over the Father, the right hand and the left hand both came, and made born the Father in human cladding, called the Father as a Son. I see this word "born" literally, as heavenly parents.
Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee: wherefore also the holy thing which is begotten shall be called the Son of God.
The Holy Spirit - The Power of the Most High - came over Mary Fathering - the Son of God – 100% Divine Mary is the biological mother – Son of man – 100% man Jesus = animal (yester ra) Christ = God incarnate (yester tov) Jesus Christ = (yester ra)+(yester tov) just like all mankind -------------------------------
Why is it impossible to discuss reality with you? ROb" Because Hebrew is the language of heaven, where SINLESSNESS is. Ideal world, far different to our sinning world. Try to read the Hebrew from a heavenly view.
So you admit it – your views come from your fantasy land – your imaginary perfect world – that does not exist here in our reality ----------------
Dave" The idea that an angel would not recognize evil if they saw it is just childish – your teaching that angels are stupid beings is childish. ROb" Did Eve recognize evil Dave? No Was/is Eve and angel? -------------------------------------
Dave" This is why Jews teach the concept of reincarnation – because God is fair. ROb" WHy not teach raising them from the dead and giving them back to their parents? In the next after life place on earth, renewed this time without sin.
How fair is that – some have to endue this world for 60/70 years – dead newborns get a pass go straight to the New Heaven and Earth
(google) Idaho Mormon woman Lori Vallow claimed to be a goddess tasked with ushering in the second coming of Jesus Christ. A mother in the United States who used her apocalyptic religious beliefs to justify murdering two of her children.
Kill them before they sin – therefore they would go to heaven guaranteed – an act of love ---------------------------------------------
Dave" Bingo – exegetical error – inventing your own scripture Dave" You drag in verses about the end times Is it relevant? ROb" you are so difficult arn't you, Scripture says here a little there a little, how else do you read Scripture Dave. Only by the verses you have at that time?
Your proof of vegetarians sharks – in the next world lions and lambs lay down together It is a false analogy – violates context on a grand scale -----------------------------------
So these after verses are not allowed to be used? Scripture tells us use Daniel to explain Revelation.
DUH – does it say use Daniel to explain Genesis? DUH – does it say use Revelations to explain Genesis? ----------------------------------------------------------
Dave" Does God have to know sinning to know tov and ra? Rob" NO but creatures have to. How else can they know (be imtimate) with RA as an experience? Your lodgic - angels have to sin so they can (be intimate) with tov?
Dave" Where do you get these rules from? ROb" From Scripture, the Cherub sinned, tells me where the knowing RA came from.
Correct – you and Ellen White alow two words from two different verses to build your entire denomination upon ----------------------------
You can “prove” almost any false teaching this way – selecting individual verses to support a theme
This is why scripture must validate itself – precept upon precept, line upon line Rob" I see, does this link also define words, with single basic meaning regardless of its context? small nuances aside?
How many translators understand this one principle?
All translators study the roots of words – Learn to translated and stop speaking like an expert - you only speak from ignorance ---------------------------
Dave" Who raise up the Chaldeans in the last days – Christ does
Are you suggesting that the last battle is between Christ and God? (that is Bahai adventism) Rob" NO, when Jesus raises up antichrist, he does so to make humans wake up out of sleep, Yep – with Bahai Islam's advent math – foretelling the coming of the Islamic Mahdi – and Christ as his number one general
(google)mahdī, (Arabic: “guided one”) in Islamic eschatology, a messianic deliverer who will fill earth with justice and equity, restore true religion, and usher in a short golden age lasting seven, eight, or nine years before the end of the world. The Qurʾān does not mention him.
If you want to change the topic – address Ellen White copying of Islamic advent math to calculate her prophesies ---------------------------------
Dave" Allah is NOT THE SATAN – but is a satanas
The ‘sar’ of Persian – Dan 10:13 – an archon prince in charge of a specific area The Beast exist in a plurality – he has an army of many archon Allah may still not be the “prince” of the WORLD Maybe he is just the “prince” of the Middle East / ‘prince’ of Islam a satanas – a devil – a serpent – in charge of a specific area Rob" I see thank you for this
Why couldn’t you admit this before? Why doesn’t your denominational tradition prepare you for the last days? How can you recognize prophesy – if you deny it to begin with? Covenant theologian ----------------------------------
Dave" Yes be honest and objective and begin again with the OT and your stated goal is to prove your satan rebels, hates, and opposes God ROb" OK
Rob" I see, and what exactly would I have to find to prove your Satanas beast is opposing GOD? and your stated goal is to prove your satan rebels, hates, and opposes God
Also – your rules – you are limited to KJV+ strong numbers H7854, G4566, G4567 – sola scriptorum
2Sa 24:1 Now the anger of Adonai again flared up against Israel, 1Ch 21:1 Then satan stood up against Israel
God is satan Himself – or satan works for the Lord Does your satan rebel against God – hate or oppose God – No
If your satan rebels, hates, and opposes God – your satan should have told God No – do it yourself
The Book of Job – Yes satan does a dirty job for the Lord God allowed it – God instigated it – God set it in motion Does your satan rebel against God – hate or oppose God – No He does exactly as he is asked / told / obedient
If your satan rebels, hates, and opposes God – your satan should have told God No – do it yourself
Zec 3 – satan the prosecutor opposing Joshua God said – stand down satan – Divine Pardon granted Did you satan rebel, hate, or oppose God? - No He does exactly as he is asked / told / obedient
If your satan rebels, hates, and opposes God – your satan should have told God No – I won’t obey – I wont stand down
Hebrew satan G4566 in the NT 2Co 12:7 even in the extraordinary quality of the revelations. So that I would not exalt myself, a thorn in the flesh was given to me— a messenger of satan to torment me, so I would not exalt myself.
A reminder to be humble – a warring from the prosecutor – accusing / causing guilt
How does this prove your satan rebels, hates, or opposes God?
This is OT Hebrew satan H7854 / G4566– how do these stories prove your satan rebels, hates, or opposes God in any way? Answer – it does NOT
Hebrew satan is an angel of the lord – in service to the Lord – and asked to do dirty jobs at times Hebrew satan is an identifier – any angel serving in that role is the satan Does not have to be the same angel every time – at times God even asks for a volunteer (1 kings 22)
Hebrew satan is an innocent victim of a Catholic conspiracy If you cannot see this – then you cannot be honest If you cannot admit this – then your traditions outweigh scripture ----------------------------------------
Hebrew satan is a servant of the Lord – helping to facilitate God’s Will on earth BUT – at the same time – the OT is filled with other-gods, evil spirits, lilith, evil ‘sars’, and demons They are NOT “Hebrew satan” – they are of another group
Who are these other gods and demons? Answer – they are the Beast of Revelation – the serpent race – we call devils and satanas that deceive the whole world
In Hebrew – King Solomon described them as shedim In Aramaic – Islam calls them the Jinn In Hindi – they are call the serpent race – the Nagas
REPTILE WORSHIP? The Secret of Lizard Gods 13:30 min
Information from the other side – not Judaeo-Christian – not Islamic – non-Middle Eastern – HINDI
Robert – none of this is true because it is not in scripture Dave – Gnostic – it is 100% Judaeo-Christian in every way Dave – it is 100% scriptural Gen 3 – who is in the garden – the serpent Rev 12 – the serpent = the Beast of Revelation Dave Ike – some people call em demonic – some call them the serpent race – Islam calls them the Jinn Gnostic – calls them archon
In first century Greek they are called archon
Eph 6:12 ὅτι οὐκ ἔστιν ἡμῖν ἡ πάλη πρὸς αἷμα καὶ σάρκα, ἀλλὰ πρὸς τὰς ἀρχάς, …
In 1611 Kings English - thay are called the Principalities
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, ...
David Ike – says that just outside our field of vision – are entities that are anything but human – and they have been manipulating this world from the outside for eons
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Post by rob on Sept 13, 2023 6:31:01 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
I listened to the video on Covenant theology and Dispensational theology.
It's some academic thing, not really that interesting. Weird listening to different views.
I do not fit into either view according to the video.
------------------
I watched you 109 Psalm video, really a song, not even any comments upon the theology.
I also read your comments and you passing off any references to an Opposer opposing God.
What do these verses mean to you:-
Ps 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
Ex 15:6 Thy right hand, O LORD, is become glorious in power: thy right hand, O LORD, hath dashed in pieces the enemy.
I see two contrasting powers here ruling over humans, who can choose which power will empower them.
Do you see this idea?
------------------- Dave" you and Ellen White allow two words from two different verses to build your entire denomination upon''
ROb"
Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Dave you are misquoting my facts, I need only one verse, and it's a complete message in the ONE verse. Not two different verses.
-------------
Dave" If your satan rebels, hates, and opposes God – your satan should have told God No – I won’t obey – I wont stand down
ROb" If the Opposer tried to be rude or presumptuous towards GOD, God could have flicked the creatures into immediate non-existence. But God can't because God is love, and not easily angered, and wishes to have other unfallen world see the nature of SIN properly exposed.
This is why naughty school child are rude to teachers but never rude to the School Principal.
Try and answers my few question Dave, especially the Ps 109.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 13, 2023 7:38:29 GMT -5
I listened to the video on Covenant theology and Dispensational theology. It's some academic thing, not really that interesting. Weird listening to different views. I do not fit into either view according to the video.Ellen White teaches Covenant Theology3:20 - Prediction #1 – Jerusalem's future
Jerusalem will never be rebuiltAgree – she teaches the New Covenant – The ‘church’ has replaced Israel She teaches that the Jews are done – lost ERROR (google) Is Seventh-Day Adventist a Dispensationalist? NO, Adventists reject dispensationalist theology Do you support your own prophet or not? One error and it is all satanic garbage = your ruleYES – I am very much in the camp of Dispensation3:25 - Dispensationalist are more literal to the Word of God While - COVENANT THEOLOGY is based upon / dependent on – Allegory
allegory 1. a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one. 4:20 - Basic principle – if the Bible says something – it means something elseThis is mandatory for Robert and his SDA dogma This is exactly your teaching – you cannot trust literal scripture – doubt literal scripture – you must by into the poetry that is the true meaningAnd Ellen White is the only true poet master - she tells him how to read scriptureDefinition of a cult------------------ I watched you 109 Psalm video, really a song, not even any comments upon the theology.All Pslams are songs - Hymms - to be sung aloud to the Lord - with musical instruments JOY - CELIBRATION - PRAISE - ENJOY - APPERICIATE What do these verses mean to you:- Ps 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.DUH – Zac 3 – Hebrew satan is the prosecutor Matthew Henery - Psalms 109:6-20David here fastens upon some one particular person that was worse than the rest of his enemies, and the ringleader of them, and in a devout and pious manner, not from a principle of malice and revenge, but in a holy zeal for God and against sin and with an eye to the enemies of Christ, particularly Judas who betrayed him, whose sin was greater than Pilate's that condemned him Adam Clark - Psalms 109:6Let Satan stand at his right hand - As the word שטן satan means an adversary simply, though sometimes it is used to express the evil spirit Satan, I think it best to preserve here its grammatical meaning: “Let an adversary stand at his right hand:” i.e., Let him be opposed and thwarted in all his purposes. David would like to take revenge - but does not have to (he can be a Christian and turn the other cheek) Instead – let Hebrew satan prosecute him (because he is guilty guilty guilty) Vengeance is mine sayth the Lord!Are you sure you have attended a "chiristian' church? Because you sure do not undestand Christian teaching You have turned a basic Christian teaching into a satanic message teaching error. The more you speak - the more I am sure that Ellen White was a satanic plant! Looks christiny - sound christiny - pretends christiny - yet >25 years later you are still looking The work of the ARCHON - anything but the truth - anything that "misses" Ex 15:6 Thy right hand, O LORD, is become glorious in power: thy right hand, O LORD, hath dashed in pieces the enemy. DUH – Christ is the Right Hand I see two contrasting powers here ruling over humans, who can choose which power will empower them. Do you see this idea?Satan is the heavenly prosecutor working for the Lord and Christ is the Right Hand of God ------------------- Dave" If your satan rebels, hates, and opposes God – your satan should have told God No – I won’t obey – I wont stand down ROb" If the Opposer tried to be rude or presumptuous towards GOD, God could have flicked the creatures into immediate non-existence. Absolutely AGREE – Thank you! - Your doctrine of satan opposing God = IMPOSSIBLE!Your teaching of the Rev 12:7 “war” = God could have flicked the creatures into immediate non-existence. There is no controversy between God and your satan god – IMPOSSIBLEThere is no cosmic struggle between two opposing gods ------------------------------------------- Finally – we are making progressYou have directly opposed and denied the teaching of Ellen White twice – in a major way – in foundational ways You have admitted that her two god theology is error - IMPOSSIBLE The very foundation of all her teaching and the SDA denomination I thought she was a prophet equal with the Apostle Paul P.S. Jason SilverMy family listen to hymm a lot - He sings all the Pslams In Hebrew they all sing melodically - but in English some of the songs are hard to make euphonic But he sure gives it a good try My girls sing Psalm 149 for fun - (I approve) youtu.be/RxlFRI-56Nc?si=TXqd5zwIbpLrwKCm
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Post by Dave on Sept 13, 2023 10:57:13 GMT -5
There is no controversy between God and your satan god – IMPOSSIBLE our real struggle (Eph6) There is no cosmic struggle between two opposing gods
However - there is the Contest of Genesis 3 Gen 3:15 I will put animosity between you and the woman—between your seed and her seed. He will crush your head, and you will crush his heel.” Gen 3:16 To the woman He said, “I will greatly increase your pain from conception to labor. In pain will you give birth to children. Your desire will be toward your husband, yet he must rule over you.” Gen 3:17 Then to the man He said, “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate of the tree which I commanded you, saying, ‘You must not eat of it’: Cursed is the ground because of you—with pain will you eat of it all the days of your life. Gen 3:18 Thorns and thistles will sprout for you. You will eat the plants of the field, Gen 3:19 By the sweat of your brow will you eat food, until you return to the ground, since from it were you taken. For you are dust, and to dust will you return.”
The Contsest between MAN and WORLD + MAN and the Serpent's Seed - (archon)
The Contsest between MAN and The Kingdom of the Beast + MAN and the The Offspring of the BEAST - that we call devils and satanas - (archon) - our real struggle - Eph 6
Established by - put in place by - ordained by - God! ----------------------------------------
Your teaching of the Rev 12:7 “war” = God could have flicked the creatures into immediate non-existence. I once said - the war over in the blimk of an eye - maybe 6 seconds - and you mocked me Now you say - immediately
Question - is that longer or shorter than 6 seconds?
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Post by rob on Sept 13, 2023 17:27:57 GMT -5
Messanic Email today write
And although the Brit Chadashah (New Testament) is written primarily in Greek with some Aramaic, it is very Hebraic in nature. Why? The writers are Jewish, the culture is Jewish, the religion is Jewish, the traditions are Jewish, and the concepts are Jewish! The apostle Paul who wrote at least thirteen of the twenty-seven books of the Brit Chadashah even identified himself as being "circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee. " (Philippians 3:5) Because of the strong Jewish identity of its writers, we find throughout the Brit Chadashah numerous references to the prophecies and practices of the Hebrew Scriptures. For that reason alone, learning Hebrew helps us to better understand the true plans and purposes of God. Roy Blizzard, Jr. in Understanding the Difficult Words of Jesus said, “If any additional advances are to be made, especially in better understanding the words of Jesus, the concentration must shift to the study of Hebrew history and culture, and above all, the Hebrew language.” Believers who learn Hebrew today are doing far more than simply learning another language; they are participating in a great end-time move of the Spirit of God, reconnecting the Church to its Jewish roots and revealing the true identity of HaMashiach (the Messiah)—Yeshua. ------------------------ Rob" I add this email today, seeing it is Hebrew written by Messanic Hebrew writers to show you that they consider the NT in Hebrew as a great way to understand Jesus torah better, and I agree with their thoughts.
I am not alone in this recent research idea, Jeff Benner thinks the same too.
Shalom ---------------------------------------------------- covenant theory verses Dispensationalism theory Boy what big meaningless words we have to divide ourselves over?
Dave" allegory 1. a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one. 4:20 - Basic principle – if the Bible says something – it means something else This is mandatory for Robert and his SDA dogma Rob" Jeff Benner says 50% of the Bible is poetry, and hence requires one to look for similes.
Also poetry can be written as parallel stories ( you scholar term of allegory, if you wish)
Also poetry can write personifications, using humans to make messages from them.
Why even Jews look for hidden messages in the letters, is going a bit too far, but I am at least willing to embrace their respect. And their is the literal reading of poems too.
Dave: "This is exactly your teaching – you cannot trust literal scripture Rob" I do trust literal Scripture Dave.
Joh 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. 52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. 59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. 60 ¶ Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
This passage is a critically important passage, understanding AMANUH and the process of SALVATION. Jesus was saying we have to literally eat His flesh and drink His blood in order to experience eternal ongoing living. But the literals have to be understood spiritually. I use this term alot and it will confuse you because you have other meaning for spiritual, including we are created as spiritual and later the spiritual inhabits in body of flesh. So I doubt you are going to understand me, or Scripture.
Not even my SDA colleagues understand this as literal. So I am almost all alone in some of my weird ideas. Dave" And Ellen White is the only true poet master - she tells him how to read scripture Definition of a cult Rob" Wrong Dave, the above example I received from God and the tutor of Scripture the HS who is a schoolmaster. I did not receive the message from Ellen White, and she is a translator not a dictator of religious thought. You are very cruel with your words sometimes.
You have me aroused, just a few comments of her
"The Review and Herald August 18, 1885, paragraph 8 … shall eat my flesh and drink my blood,” ye shall have eternal life. We must grow up into Christ, we must be partakers of his divine nature. Just as the branch is joined …"
Yes eating his flesh is partaking in His Divine Nature, but how is this achieved?
Letters and Manuscripts — Volume 13 (1898), Ms 57, 1898, par. 24 … ye eat my flesh and drink my blood, ye have no life in you.” [ Verse 53 .] How little those who claim to believe the truth comprehend these words.
Wow, this little gem has the word "faith" in it
Some might think that Christ’s words at this time were inappropriate, because many were offended at them, but He knew that this was the best time for the unbelieving and criticizing ones to show that they had no genuine faith. And I show you this passage from the same letter, showing they did not understand AMANUH in Jesus.
Now Dave, I have never read ELLEN WHITE comments on this passage before, yet I am amazed at how much harmony I have with regards to AMANUH and the meaning of the term "eat my flesh".
Now I do not expect you to understand because you do not even understand what faith means.
You assume "AMANUH" is a knowledge, mental assent word. It is not. It is much more than a cognitive notion. ----------------------
Dave" All Pslams are songs - Hymms - to be sung aloud to the Lord - with musical instruments ROb" Maybe, it helps us to memorize torah, but David's messages were prayers, not hymns. later they became hymns, but they are prayers showing us how to pray.
Dave" Ps 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
DUH – Zac 3 – Hebrew satan is the prosecutor
Matthew Henry - Psalms 109:6-20 "David here fastens upon some one particular person that was worse than the rest of his enemies, and the ringleader of them, Adam Clark - Psalms 109:6 "Let Satan stand at his right hand - As the word שטן satan means an adversary simply, though sometimes it is used to express the evil spirit Satan, I think it best to preserve here its grammatical meaning: “Let an adversary stand at his right hand:” i.e., Let him be opposed and thwarted in all his purposes.
David would like to take revenge - but does not have to (he can be a Christian and turn the other cheek) Instead – let Hebrew satan prosecute him (because he is guilty guilty guilty) Vengeance is mine sayth the Lord!
Are you sure you have attended a "chiristian' church?
Rob" Why are you mocking me, when your words and discussion agree with me, the Word is referring to a Hebrew Opposer at the right hand of the ringleader, the most wicked humans, David is praying about.
Dave" Ex 15:6 Thy right hand, O LORD, is become glorious in power: thy right hand, O LORD, hath dashed in pieces the enemy.
DUH – Christ is the Right Hand Rob" PP" I see two contrasting powers here ruling over humans, who can choose which power will empower them. Do you see this idea?
Dave" Satan is the heavenly prosecutor working for the Lord and Christ is the Right Hand of God Rob" Explain to me how the OPPOSER is a heavenly prosecutor - where is your texts Dave?
Ps 109:2 they have spoken against me with a lying tongue. Ps 109:3 They compassed me about also with words of hatred; Ps 109:3 and fought against me without a cause. Ps 109:5 And they have rewarded me evil for good, Ps 109:6 ¶ Set thou a wicked man over him: Ps 109:6..and let Satan stand at his right hand.
Ps 109:31 For GOD shall stand at the right hand of the poor, to SAVE (YASHUAH)
Now this poem or prayer or singing hymn, has many elements in it.
First David lists all the RA things done to him 1) liars 2) hatred 3) fight without cause 4) reward evil for good 5) set wicked rulers over David
And all these evil traits are given as powers from the "Opposer on the right hand"
A prosecutor does not empower humans to SIN, to HATE, to FIGHT etc.
A prosecutor is only supposed to convict humans of their sinning, not supposed to empower than to do sinning. This is what the "right hand" means. Somebody at your right hand is empowering you, helping you to make decisions.
Dave does not agree with this idea?
The last verse of this prayer says a special note
Let GOD be at my right hand to SAVE.
And what does GOD SAVE us from? The OPPOSING elohiym power who rules from the right hand of sinning humans.
Lets destroy Dave's term of prosecutor....
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand.
GOD says to the OPPOSER "all Job has in in your power, but do not take his life"
Explain to me how a prosecutor is allowed to 1) kill all Job's children 2) destroy Job's houses 3) kill all of Job's animals
While the humans did this wickedness, the Prayer of David in 109 says that the wicked humans have at their right hand the OPPOSER, who empowers them.
How do I know this? Because GOD says to the OPPOSER " ALL Job has in in thy POWER"
But God limits the Opposer's power, because GOD can. The Opposer is forced to comply, because the Opposer is weaker in power than God is.
Look at another example....
Zec 3:1 ¶ And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and The Opposer standing at his right hand to oppose him."
This is how the verse should read, for all contexts of noun/verb forms demand this English meaning.
But if we supply Dave's word meanings.
Zec 3:1 ¶ And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and The Prosecutor standing at his right hand to prosecute him.
Does the prosecutor prosecute Joshua with crimes and sins?
Zec 3:3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, Can you see red stains upon a white garment? Yes easily OK
Zec 3:4 ...Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
Can you see "avon" guilt, in the garments ? NO, now we are talking about human reactions to the sinning process, things no prosecutor can see.
Zec 3:9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
Notice the passage is not a poem with other pictures, the Joshua here is a reference to the BRANCH called Jesus who removes guilt in a single day.
Does GOD need a Prosecutor ? Not according to this prophecy.
The High priest also functioned on earth for many years in Israel, no Prosecutor functions is ever recorded in Leviticus about this. If GOD is at our right hand, GOD does not function as a Prosecutor either, but a Saviour, to empower humans with power, not conviction of their sins. So the wicked who have the Opposer at their right hand, haas to function in a simile fashion.
Do you acknowledge this idea Dave?
Rob PP" ROb" If the Opposer tried to be rude or presumptuous towards GOD, God could have flicked the creatures into immediate non-existence.
Dave" Absolutely AGREE Rob" Proof that the Opposer complies with God's requests not as a servant, but because God is stronger than the opposing one. (Same this as Balaam, blessed Israel)
Dave" Thank you! - Your doctrine of satan opposing God = IMPOSSIBLE! Rob" Not so fast Dave. If a creature wishes to rebel, they break off relationship with you, and you cannot do anything about this, because you love the creature, but hate their sinning.
Dave" There is no controversy between God and your satan god – IMPOSSIBLE Rob" I see. Dave" Finally – we are making progress You have directly opposed and denied the teaching of Ellen White twice – in a major way – in foundational ways You have admitted that her two god theology is error - IMPOSSIBLE Rob" First the word "elohiym" does not mean "god" , Jeff Benner says it means "power" and I am tending more to agree with him, because of you taking this word the wrong way.
Can the free will make an opposing power? Of course it can, it is a rebellion.
Prodigal son, is your faviourite idea. Did the son oppose his Dad? Of course he did. But later repented after coming to his senses, returned to his Father again.
---------Answer these questions regarding the meaning of "right hand"
Ge 48:18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.
What is the Hebrew significannce of the "right hand" here?
Ex 29:20 Then shalt thou kill the ram, and take of his blood, and put it upon the tip of the right ear of Aaron, and upon the tip of the right ear of his sons, and upon the thumb of their right hand, and upon the great toe of their right foot, and sprinkle the blood upon the altar round about.
What is the Hebrew significannce of the "right hand" here?
Le 14:14 And the priest shall take some of the blood of the trespass offering, and the priest shall put it upon the tip of the right ear of him that is to be cleansed, and upon the thumb of his right hand, and upon the great toe of his right foot:
What is the Hebrew significannce of the "right hand" here?
Nu 22:26 And the angel of the LORD went further, and stood in a narrow place, where was no way to turn either to the right hand or to the left.
What is the Hebrew significannce of the "right hand" here? Notice even when the angel functioned as an opposer, we still have this term "right hand".
De 5:32 Ye shall observe to do therefore as the LORD your God hath commanded you: ye shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left.
What is the Hebrew significannce of the "right hand" here?
Jos 1:7 Only be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law, which Moses my servant commanded thee: turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, that thou mayest prosper whithersoever thou goest.
What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here?
Job 23:8 ¶ Behold, I go forward, but he is not there; and backward, but I cannot perceive him: 9 On the left hand, where he doth work, but I cannot behold him: he hideth himself on the right hand, that I cannot see him: 10 But he knoweth the way that I take: when he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold. 11 My foot hath held his steps, his way have I kept, and not declined. 12 Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food. 13 ¶ But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. 14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him. 15 Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him. 16 For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me: 17 Because I was not cut off before the darkness, neither hath he covered the darkness from my face.
What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here?
Ps 16:8 ¶ I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.
What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here? -------------
Ps 26:10 In whose hands is mischief, and their right hand is full of bribes. What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here?
Ps 89:42 Thou hast set up the right hand of his adversaries; thou hast made all his enemies to rejoice.
What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here?
Ps 109:6 ¶ Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here?
Ps 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here?
Ps 138:7 Though I walk in the midst of trouble, thou wilt revive me: thou shalt stretch forth thine hand against the wrath of mine enemies, and thy right hand shall save me.
What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here? -----------------
Ec 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.
What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here?
Isa 45:1 ¶ Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here?
La 2:4 He hath bent his bow like an enemy: he stood with his right hand as an adversary, and slew all that were pleasant to the eye in the tabernacle of the daughter of Zion: he poured out his fury like fire.
What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here
Mt 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here
Mt 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here
Mt 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here
Mr 16:19 ¶ So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here
Ac 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here
Ro 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here
Re 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword:
What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here
Re 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here
Re 5:1 ¶ And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here? Proof Revelation is written in Hebrew.
Re 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here
-----------------Now Dave, I have not done this study before about the meaning of the "right hand", so I leave you to answer first from these selected passages -------- In your discussions try to make all verses agree on a single repeated theme. Make the torah have harmony. And when you have finished you will see the "right hand" can refer to Strong Authorities" who rule over humans, empowering their free wills of choice.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 13, 2023 21:17:38 GMT -5
Rob" I add this email today, seeing it is Hebrew written by Messanic Hebrew writers to show you that they consider the NT in Hebrew as a great way to understand Jesus torah better, This is a true statement – and my pointJesus was a Jew – His disciples were Jewish – His followers were Jewish – all of them had a Jewish theology and mind-set. The authors of the Nag Hammadi were Messianic Jews and it reads very Jewish – filled with Jewish demonology. The writers are Jewish, the culture is Jewish, the religion is Jewish, the traditions are Jewish, and the concepts are Jewish!I agree with their thoughts.Then why do you argue against Jewish teaching?1- They admit the NT was Greek – NOT Hebrew 2- you demand that all of them jump forward in time – to learn a Catholic OT and a Catholic satan – then go back to the first century to write the NT I am not alone in this recent research idea, Jeff Benner thinks the same too. YES – the POINT = what was the real true teaching of Jesus Christ He did not teach Catholic satan – He spoke of Beelzebub---------------------------------------------------- covenant theory verses Dispensationalism theory Boy what big meaningless words we have to divide ourselves over? Robert – if you cannot discuss theology at depth – why do you present yourself as an expert?Dave" allegory 1. a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one. 4:20 - Basic principle – if the Bible says something – it means something else This is mandatory for Robert and his SDA dogma Rob" Jeff Benner says 50% of the Bible is poetry, and hence requires one to look for similes. Absolutely agree – and every one of those metaphors, similes, is another layer of the same meaning – Like layer of an onion – each layer deeper and richer in meaning – The Kabbalah always gives 5 answers to every question.
All of the different layers are consist and consistent with scriptureAll Catholic crusaders knewLuk 19:27 But those hostile to me, who didn’t want me to reign over them, bring them here and execute them before me.’” It is God will to kill the Jews and the Muslims The only good Indian or Aborigine is a dead one Prevent them from having more pagan babies Some churches in Appalachia teach Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. One group taught that Jesus would return in 1843One group said it was 1879 oops, 1914 oops, 1918 oops – well millions alive in 1925 will never see death – the rapture will happen firstOne group teaches that Jesus and satan are twin brothers and Jehovah was once a man that became enlightened
Yep – from poetry you can invent any analogy you want--------------------- Also poetry can write personifications, using humans to make messages from them.YES – many people pick out a verse out of its context and build a new religion around it – a new denomination---------------------------------------- Why even Jews look for hidden messages in the letters, is going a bit too far, but I am at least willing to embrace their respect. Gematria – is the same as ProphesyNever to be read forward – but to validate the present or the past Counting the days until a future Christian even will happen has been wrong close to 300 times Just more ammunition to prove to the rest of the world that Christianity is wrong / error / myth ------------------------------- Dave: "This is exactly your teaching – you cannot trust literal scripture Rob" I do trust literal Scripture Dave. I have such a long list of scripture that you must deny to maintain Ellen White as superior to scripture. Why must you deny scripture? And then lie about it - Christian------------------------------------------------ Joh 6:51-62 - This passage is a critically important passage, understanding AMANUH and the process of SALVATION. Jesus was saying we have to literally eat His flesh and drink His blood in order to experience eternal ongoing living. It is a good thing Jesus clarified it so the stupid would not be confusedThe Gospel of Philip(Jesus said) Some are afraid lest they rise naked. Because of this they wish to rise in the flesh, and they do not know that it is those who wear the flesh who are naked. It is those who [...] to unclothe themselves who are not naked. "Flesh and blood shall not inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Co 15:50). What is this which will not inherit? This which is on us. But what is this, too, which will inherit? It is that which belongs to Jesus and his blood. Because of this he said "He who shall not eat my flesh and drink my blood has not life in him" (Jn 6:53). What is it? His flesh is the word, and his blood is the Holy Spirit. He who has received these has food and he has drink and clothing. Joh 3:5 Yeshua answered, “Amen, amen I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. Joh 3:6 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. Joh 3:7 Do not be surprised that I said to you, ‘You all must be born from above.’ 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. But the literals have to be understood spiritually. You deny the spirit – you refuse to understand------------------------------------ I am almost all alone in some of my weird ideas.Correct – you are so far from the truth that you preach against the truth You preach an anti-christian message ---------------------------------------- I do not expect you to understand because you do not even understand what faith means. You assume "AMANUH" is a knowledge, mental assent word. It is not. It is much more than a cognitive notion. Correct – you mock what you do not know You and the Catholics call it special knowledge that saves a Gnostic – when the whole time we ARE SPEAKING TO THE BAPTISM OF THE Holy SpiritYou and Ellen White mock the idea – call it satanic More anti-christian teaching ---------------------- " All Pslams are songs - Hymms - to be sung aloud to the Lord - with musical instruments ROb" Maybe, it helps us to memorize torah, but David's messages were prayers, not hymns. later they became hymns, but they are prayers showing us how to pray.Robert – your knowledge of scripture is so lacking it crazy. It is obvious you have never studied scripture and you certainly do not understand the Jewish mind-set of the NT Gospel(google) Is the book of Psalms songs or prayers? Psalms, book of the Old Testament composed of sacred songs, or of sacred poems meant to be sung. (wiki) In later Jewish and Christian tradition, the psalms have come to be used as prayers, either individual or communal, as traditional expressions of religious feeling. Robert – why do you teach everything backwards You read the literal English – then make it mean something else Zero academic honesty! - just make it up-------------------------------- Dave" Ps 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand. DUH – Zac 3 – Hebrew satan is the prosecutor David would like to take revenge - but does not have to (he can be a Christian and turn the other cheek) Instead – let Hebrew satan prosecute him (because he is guilty guilty guilty) Vengeance is mine sayth the Lord!Rob" Why are you mocking me, when your words and discussion agree with me, the Word is referring to a Hebrew Opposer at the right hand of the ringleader, the most wicked humans, David is praying about. OH – so you agree – Hebrew satan is the prosecutor standing at the right hand of David’s enemy accusing that guy before the Lord - Just like Zec 3------------------------- Ps 109:2-6 First David lists all the RA things done to him 1) liars 2) hatred 3) fight without cause 4) reward evil for good 5) set wicked rulers over David And all these evil traits are given as powers from the "Opposer on the right hand" You are sick with your satan worship All of these opposition were by the people of Israel opposing DavidThe opposer on the right hand of David’s enemy was there to ensure God Vengeance / Judgment David would like to take revenge - but does not have to David can act like a Christian and turn the other cheek Jewish Korbots Instead – let Hebrew satan prosecute him (because he is a guilty sinner) Vengeance is mine sayth the Lord! Why do you deny this Christian teaching?------------------------------------- This is what the "right hand" means. Somebody at your right hand is empowering you, helping you to make decisions. NOT consistant with scripture or with Psalms 109 or Zec 3The last verse of this prayer says a special note Let GOD be at my right hand to SAVE. YES Robert – the Right Hand of God = Christ It does not mean - Somebody at your right hand is empowering you, helping you to make decisions.
Zec 3:1 ¶ And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and The Opposer standing at his right hand to oppose him." This is how the verse should read, for all contexts of noun/verb forms demand this English meaning. But if we supply Dave's word meanings. Zec 3:1 ¶ And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and The Prosecutor standing at his right hand to prosecute him. Correct – this is the Jewish and mainstream Christian teaching of this passageCommon knowledge (google) Who is the prosecutor of God?
A figure known as ha-satan ("the satan") first appears in the Hebrew Bible as a heavenly prosecutor, subordinate to Yahweh (God), who prosecutes the nation of Judah in the heavenly court and tests the loyalty of Yahweh's followers. If GOD is at our right hand, GOD does not function as a Prosecutor either, but a Saviour, Robert – get serious or get lost Your anti-christian teaching is not welcome here------------------------------------------ Rob PP" ROb" If the Opposer tried to be rude or presumptuous towards GOD, God could have flicked the creatures into immediate non-existence.Dave" Absolutely AGREE Rob" Proof that the Opposer complies with God's requests Dave" Thank you! - Your doctrine of satan opposing God = IMPOSSIBLE! Rob" Not so fast Dave. If a creature wishes to rebel, they break off relationship with you, and you cannot do anything about this, because you love the creature, but hate their sinning. You just said - Rob" Proof that the ... God is stronger than the opposing one.
Dave" There is no controversy between God and your satan god – IMPOSSIBLE Rob" I see. Dave" Finally – we are making progress You have directly opposed and denied the teaching of Ellen White twice – in a major way – in foundational ways You have admitted that her two god theology is error - IMPOSSIBLE---------Answer these questions regarding the meaning of "right hand" jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/12757-right-and-leftRIGHT AND LEFT.The right side of things is recognized in many ways as better than the left. The south and north sides of the earth are distinguished as "yamin" (right) and "sem'ol' (left; Job xxiii. 9), the right being the sunnier, brighter side, and the left the bleak and dark side, ill-omened and unlucky, where evil generates. Jacob showed the significance of using the right hand in blessing by placing it on the head of Ephraim, whose tribe was thereby destined to become the greater nation, though Manasseh was older in years (Gen. xlviii. 17-19). "Right" is a synonym for "goodness" and "brightness," and "left" for "badness," "awkwardness," and "clumsiness." "A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left" (Eccl. x. 2). The right hand is associated with the idea of majesty: "Thy right hand, O Lord, is become glorious in power" (Ex. xv. 6). Numerous other Biblical passages may be cited in illustration of this idea. The right hand was raised when an oath was administered or taken (Isa. lxii. 8), and sometimes both right and left hands (Dan. xii. 7). The signet was worn on the right hand (Jer. xxii. 24). In simple terms - The Right Hand - is the Hand of instruction and salvation The Left Hand - is the hand of correction and mysteryGe 48:18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head. What is the Hebrew significannce of the "right hand" here? The Right Hand - is the Hand of instruction and salvation – of good things - blessings
Ex 29:20 Then shalt thou kill the ram, and take of his blood, and put it upon the tip of the right ear of Aaron, and upon the tip of the right ear of his sons, and upon the thumb of their right hand, and upon the great toe of their right foot, and sprinkle the blood upon the altar round about. What is the Hebrew significannce of the "right hand" here? The Right Hand - is the Hand of instruction and salvation – of good things – blessings
Nu 22:26 And the angel of the LORD went further, and stood in a narrow place, where was no way to turn either to the right hand or to the left. What is the Hebrew significannce of the "right hand" here? Yep the path was blocked – can go to the right or left Why is literal scripture a mystery to you?
De 5:32 Ye shall observe to do therefore as the LORD your God hath commanded you: ye shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left. What is the Hebrew significannce of the "right hand" here? Yep – stay on the straight and narrow path – don’t go to the right or left Why is literal scripture a mystery to you?Jos 1:7 Only be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law, which Moses my servant commanded thee: turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, that thou mayest prosper whithersoever thou goest. What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here? Yep – stay on the straight and narrow path – don’t go to the right or left Why is literal scripture a mystery to you?Job 23:8 ¶ Behold, I go forward, but he is not there; and backward, but I cannot perceive him: 9 On the left hand, where he doth work, but I cannot behold him: he hideth himself on the right hand, that I cannot see him: The Left Hand - is the hand of correction and mysteryPs 16:8 ¶ I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved. What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here? The Right Hand - is the Hand of instruction and salvation------------- Ps 26:10 In whose hands is mischief, and their right hand is full of bribes. What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here? Adam Clark - Psalms 26:10Their right hand is full of bribes - He speaks of persons in office, who took bribes to pervert judgment and justice. -------------------- Ps 89:42 Thou hast set up the right hand of his adversaries; thou hast made all his enemies to rejoice. What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here? The Right Hand - is the Hand of instruction and salvationPs 109:6 ¶ Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand. What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here? YEP – the Heavenly Prosecutor
Ps 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here? The Right Hand - is the Hand of instruction and salvationPs 138:7 Though I walk in the midst of trouble, thou wilt revive me: thou shalt stretch forth thine hand against the wrath of mine enemies, and thy right hand shall save me. What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here? The Right Hand - is the Hand of instruction and salvation----------------- Ec 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left. What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here? In simple terms - The Right Hand - is the Hand of instruction and salvation The Left Hand - is the hand of correction and mysteryIsa 45:1 ¶ Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut; What is the Hebrew significance of the "right hand" here? The Right Hand - is the Hand of instruction and salvation – of good things - blessings In your discussions try to make all verses agree on a single repeated theme. Make the torah have harmony. In simple terms - The Right Hand - is the Hand of instruction and salvation The Left Hand - is the hand of correction and mystery 100% consistent with Jewish teachingAnd when you have finished you will see the "right hand" can refer to Strong Authorities" who rule over humans, empowering their free wills of choice. How does this prove your satan rebels, hates, or opposes God? This is OT Hebrew satan H7854 / G4566– how do these stories prove your satan rebels, hates, or opposes God in any way? Answer – it does NOTROb" If the Opposer tried to be rude or presumptuous towards GOD, God could have flicked the creatures into immediate non-existence. Hebrew satan is an angel of the lord – in service to the Lord – and asked to do dirty jobs at times Hebrew satan is an identifier – any angel serving in that role is the satan Does not have to be the same angel every time – at times God even asks for a volunteer (1 kings 22) Hebrew satan is an innocent victim of a Catholic conspiracy If you cannot see this – then you cannot be honest If you cannot admit this – then your traditions outweigh scripture
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