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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2021 14:25:09 GMT -5
Nice laughter Dave
But understand this.... If GOD did not allow David to build the temple because of blood shed and man fighting over living... how can I understand GOD allowing demons to supply GOD with material for His temple? Makes no sense.
Scripture says a fresh water spring cannot also flow with salt water.
Therefore the Solomon account here is not inspired, somebody else wrote it.
So using these two precepts from Scripture already, I have doubts demons can work functionally for God. My understanding of angels sinning, and anybody sinning, is it makes for dysfunctional work.
I have a friend at work who love whiskey, yet seems to work well and true. Is this true? or a deception? Can whiskey really help you work better and more functionally?
Pr 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
Give whiskey to those who are ready to perish, torah says. Weird? Why say this here?
Sometimes when people are blinded by sin, sin is all they fathom, so God uses sin to help those in sin. Eventually we are saved from sin, so we slowly stop sinning. And experience a new and different living.
So something pure and holy as God's temple is NOT going to be built using demonic angels who love sinning.
Ezekiel is full of abominations in God's temple, priests follow demonic angels to sin. Look what can of worms this could open. Therefore I cannot see this Gnostic writing as inspired.
But I keep an open mind, do you have a torah text where demonic angels helped build the temple materials? I have not studied this.
SHalom,
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Post by Dave on Jan 7, 2021 10:36:11 GMT -5
Therefore the Solomon account here is not inspired, somebody else wrote it. WOW what do you mean inspired? Is the Commentary by Arthur Clark inspired by God? – or is it just a work of an intelligent and truthful man - according to you – if Arthur Clark is not inspired than it must all be a lie Mathew Hennery’s Commentary does not agree with Arthur Clark very often Which one is inspired – which one is valuable? If Ellen White is inspired – then why isn’t she canon? Which commentary was inspired by God – how do you know
The only people I know in history that had the balls to say a work is inspired or not – were CATHOLIC PRIEST – and you claim not to be Catholic – yet you have the same authority as them
So using these two precepts from Scripture already, I have doubts demons can work functionally for God. My understanding of angels sinning, and anybody sinning, is it makes for dysfunctional work.
I Sam 16 – God send the evil spirit – God is in command of that evil spirit – that evil spirit is obeying God and doing God Will – and according to you it must be dysfunction and opposing God
God sent Satan upon David – God’s command – God’s Will – doing God’s work – and according to you it must be dysfunction and opposing God
Sometimes when people are blinded by sin, sin is all they fathom, so God uses sin to help those in sin. I know - some guy just told me that no matter where he looks - in a telescope, a microscope, a window, or the news - all he can see is the result of sin This same guy demands that there is a sin problem and that fact alone alters all scripture
I asked that guy to define sin - he did and in the very next post used the word in error of his own definition - Not consistant!
One time you will say My understanding of angels sinning, and anybody sinning, is it makes for dysfunctional work One paragraph later you say so God uses sin to help – and according to you God's help it must be dysfunction and opposing God
When God brought the Philistines against Israel – which side of the battel is sinning? When God turned Joshua loose upon the Ammonite – genocide to the last man – which side of the battel was sinning? – and according to you it must be dysfunction and opposing God
If God can send one man against another – for a functional part of God’s Will Why can’t God send and archon against you – for a functional part of His Will – Why is God sinning according to you
Ezekiel is full of abominations in God's temple, priests follow demonic angels to sin. Look what can of worms this could open. Therefore I cannot see this Gnostic writing as inspired. Once before you said this – but you refused to tell be what the abomination is You told me that the abomination desolation already took place in 70AD
Please tell me what the abomination is? And what exact form did it take in 70 AD?
Paul tells Christians – test it all and keep the good Roberts says – if Rome doesn’t like it – it must be error But you say you are not Catholic in attitude
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2021 14:28:04 GMT -5
D" Which commentary was inspired by God – how do you know R If the writings agree with the Moses torah and the prophets.
D"I Sam 16 – God send the evil spirit – God is in command of that evil spirit – that evil spirit is obeying God and doing God Will R Hmm? God is the author of all things, including when you do sin, it is God's power that causes you to sin. Does this mean GOD sins, when you choose to sin? NO
Not the gun's fault if you choose to do evil with it.
Not God's fault if God sends an evil spirit, after you reject a good spirit.
The verses are written as to you, your administration of all things.
D" One time you will say My understanding of angels sinning, and anybody sinning, is it makes for dysfunctional work One paragraph later you say so God uses sin to help R I am sorry, I cannot match the experiences you need to see the light. Perhaps Dave it is time I leave you alone. You need somebody who changed from Gnosticism to complete Torah following. My experiences do you match yours so I cannot understand your needs and your problems with thinking.
D" When God brought the Philistines against Israel – which side of the battel is sinning? When God turned Joshua loose upon the Ammonite – genocide to the last man – which side of the battel was sinning? – and according to you it must be dysfunction and opposing God R Yes it was, but GOD can use RA to make good come from RA, you told me this. It is true. If you are a stiff neck, God gives stiff neck things for stick necks to do. This does not mean GOD's ideal will is shown, but God takes you hand where you are and leads you out of the muck.
SNow is a perfect example of RA with beauty in it, designed by GOD despite sin.
D"If God can send one man against another – for a functional part of God’s Will Why can’t God send and archon against you – for a functional part of His Will – Why is God sinning according to you R Hmm? I see your point here. GOD can use RA to make good come from RA.
D" Please tell me what the abomination is?
Eze 8:16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.
Soon the One world Government will cause all humans to face east and worship SUnday as the global Sabbath rest, instead of Saturday the Sabbath of GOD. This is the major mark of abomination coming soon upon the earth.
D" And what exact form did it take in 70 AD?
The Romans sent up their standard flags of authority in the Jewish temple. They destroyed the temple. Such an event will happened again globally. Rome will set up global Sunday as Sabbath.
SHalom,
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Post by Dave on Jan 8, 2021 0:56:02 GMT -5
D"I Sam 16 – God send the evil spirit – God is in command of that evil spirit – that evil spirit is obeying God and doing God Will R Hmm? God is the author of all things, - correct including when you do sin, - God certainly allows the opportunity it is God's power that causes you to sin. – your words not mine You claim that there is no man – just an animal driven around by the HS And I asked you many time why does your HS sin so much
Now you ask me Does this mean GOD sins, when you choose to sin? NO You double speak all over the place = your theology is not consistant
D" One time you will say My understanding of angels sinning, and anybody sinning, is it makes for dysfunctional work One paragraph later you say so God uses sin to help R I am sorry, I cannot match the experiences you need to see the light
Well Mr inconsistent Robert which theology is yours God has nothing to do with ra – cannot – impossible God is only Feel Good
D" When God brought the Philistines against Israel – which side of the battel is sinning? When God turned Joshua loose upon the Ammonite – genocide to the last man – which side of the battel was sinning? – and according to you it must be dysfunction and opposing God
R Yes it was, but GOD can use RA to make good come from RA, One time you argue God cannot do anything dysfunctional and the archon only hate and oppose God Now you say – God can use the ra / archon / satan like a tool to facilitate his Will Well Mr inconsistent Robert which theology is yours
D"If God can send one man against another – for a functional part of God’s Will Why can’t God send and archon against you – for a functional part of His Will – Why is God sinning according to you R Hmm? I see your point here. GOD can use RA to make good come from RA. What about your Feel Good God thing and God can never cause harm - immpossible and according to you - if God sets one man against another this makes God a sinner Again - I just donlt think you understand your own words
D" Please tell me what the abomination is? Eze 8:16; and they worshipped the sun toward the east. Tell me more – what were they worshiping
D" And what exact form did it take in 70 AD? The Romans sent up their standard flags of authority in the Jewish temple. They destroyed the temple.
WAIT A MINUTE How is the abomination of Ezk 8 – worship of something else Equate to the destruction of the temple in 70AD AND was the abomination desolation of the end-of-days – why are we still here
No Polysemy - abomination in Ezk 8 must be the same abomination of the desolation Try again – please explaine
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2021 15:16:39 GMT -5
Greetings Dave Happy Shabbath You asked me to look up again 'abomination'2897) &SX (&SX TAhB) ac: Hate co: ? ab: Disgusting V) &SX (&SX T-AhB) — Hate: To hate something that is disgusting. [freq. 22] (vf: Niphal, Hiphil, Piel) |kjv: abhor, abominable| {str: 8581} gf1) )FSJX ()FSJX TW-Ah-BH) — Disgusting: [ms: hbet] [freq. 117] |kjv: abomination, abominable| {str: 8441} towebah H8441, disgusting. Jeff Benner. 112 verses use towebah H8441: Le 18:22 Thou shalt not lie <shakab> with mankind <zakar>, as with <mishkab> womankind <'ishshah>: it is abomination <tow`ebah>. De 14:3 Thou shalt not eat <'akal> any abominable thing <tow`ebah> Pr 12:22 ¶ Lying <sheqer> lips <saphah> are abomination <tow`ebah> to the LORD <Y@hovah>: but they that deal <`asah> truly <'emuwnah> are his delight <ratsown>. Poetry parallels here lying lips are opposite to amanuah. abominations are opposite to ratsown, things God likes. Eze 8:15 Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these Eze 8:16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east. A greater abomination is when Jews who two faced, pretend Saturday Sabbath also worship Sunday sabbaths. Now there is another word in Hebrew : Da 12:11 And from the time <`eth> that the daily <tamiyd> sacrifice shall be taken away <cuwr>, and the abomination <shiqquwts> that maketh desolate <shamem> set up <nathan>, there shall be a thousand <'eleph> two hundred <me'ah> and ninety <tish`iym> days <yowm>. H8251 shiqquwts V) =UW (=UW Sh-QTs) — Detest: T detest that which is filthy. [freq. 7] (vf: Piel) |kjv: abomination, abhor, detest| {str: 8262} Nm) =UW (=UW Sh-QTs) — Filthy: [freq. 11] |kjv: abomination, abominable| {str: 8263} edm) =JUMW (=JUMW ShY-QWTs) — Filthiness: [ms: Uwqs Uqs] [freq. 28] |kjv: abomination, detestable, abomination| {str: 8251} Jeff Benner He is not consistent with noun and verb forms. Mt 24:15 When <hotan> ye therefore <oun> shall see <eido> the abomination <bdelugma> of desolation <eremosis>, spoken of <rheo> by <dia> Daniel <Daniel> the prophet <prophetes>, stand <histemi> <histemi> in <en> the holy <hagios> place <topos>, (whoso readeth <anaginosko>, let him understand <noeo> H8251 shiqquwts = G946 bdelugma 6 verses only. I do not have a problem with this word, or it's intended meaning, so not sure what you are asking of me. ------------------------------ As for calling me Mr Inconsistent. Sorry but some things are hard to fathom.And mockers mock, I do not have all the finer details to explain some verses as you present. Marrying many wives is also a sin, but God overlooked this sin when working with Abram. You are making yourself into a mess expecting answers to every finer detail concerning God, I just concentrate on the texts I do understand and leave alone the harder ones. Some sins are covered by GOD as a sin-offering NOT unto death. While they are technically missing, they do not cause a missing on having a relationship to God. Another problem is the type of person God deals with, God takes you as you are and you grow up into understanding, you walk in His way. You are not changed immediately as a new creature, chadesh, it means to renew your standing daily before God, not unto baptism get a brand new body and mind. Isa 28:21 For the LORD <Y@hovah> shall rise up <quwm> as in mount <har> Perazim <p@ratsiym>, he shall be wroth <ragaz> as in the valley <`emeq> of Gibeon <Gib`own>, that he may do <`asah> his work <ma`aseh>, his strange <zuwr> work <ma`aseh>; and bring to pass <`abad> his act <`abodah>, his strange <nokriy> act <`abodah>. There are several Hebrew words, but the important thing, is NOT all things are easy to fathom about GOD. I still see GOD as a being that cannot lie, nor cannot sin, and while God opposes sin, does never opposes a sinner. God loves the sinner despite his or her sinning. The opposing angels on the other hand hate sinners,, even though such humans sin along with the sinning angels, these sinning angels are not concerned with mankind. They have no functional plans, they are only spoilers who spoil. Some may wish to know why sin even came about in perfect creatures of free will. Scripture does not answer this question, because it is a relationship question. Why do some relationships to God fail? Sin is also defined as transgression of law. So God is a God of rules, even though love is not really well defined by rules. In a community setting, where everything is done relating to others, I suppose one might ask, why all these rules ? And so there might arise a longingness to be alone, without rules telling me what to do all the time. Jews claim God has over 613 rules in the torah, I did a study of this and found roughly over 7000 rules in the OT and NT torah, and found one can build every NT torah to it's older OT torah. spiritualsprings.org/ss-1532.htm too many rules, a study on prayer spiritualsprings.org/ss-1081.htm Jewish list of 613 rules spiritualsprings.org/ss-1082.htm My idea of rules in the torah, based on love. Self is a disease arising from sin, but it is totally alien to God's perfect world of sinlessness. In fact while pride in many forms exist in the torah, self as a concept does not. Self or BAAL only exists in this Hebrew word, and is foreign to a sinless world. I will stop here, you say my blah blah is not worth reading. ---------------------- Pr 16:9 ¶ A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps. There is a conflict here in this verse. Man's heart is a part of himself as a character, the urge to do and think, but GOD on the other hand wants to direct that heart daily in His steps. SOmetimes often GOD deals with us in our ra and our sins of ra, this is not God ideal will for man, just a conditional will, for GOd is guiding us to a better walk with him. Sometimes the Jews did not understand this, so Jesus replied Ye were hard of heart, so Moses did this, or that. God is always an administrator of His power flowing over you. Even if opposing forces rule over you instead. Problem is Dave you see these opposing forces as good angels doing a bad job. I don't see this. Rev 12: 1 - 13 speaks of a divine woman ready in childbirth, but the dragon wants to kill her children, especially the divine son Jesus. The picture is about mischief. We have a text about mischief. Re 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (KJV) The sinning angels are at war with those who are saved by Jesus, not only do these opposing angels hate Jesus and wanted to kill him, they also hate sinners who are saved. "war" same word in heaven is now used on earth. This whole chapter really ends your archon argument as good angels testing man. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 9, 2021 3:26:19 GMT -5
You asked me to look up again 'abomination'I do not have a problem with this word, or it's intended meaning, so not sure what you are asking of me. You and Ellen White are sure the abomination desolation occurred in 70ADPlease tell me what the abomination is? And what exact form did it take in 70 AD? You think I mock you – sorry if you feel that way You told me that you have been given the gift of understanding the Torah It is scriptural and it was gifted to you by God – your words You also told me that if I don’t understand your view than the spirt is not with me You also told me that you have the authority to change word meanings to eliminate polysemy I am simply testing if it works I am judging you overall understanding of the scripture you – the total package – the complete story You have asked me how many questions? How many times have you asked the same question over and over. Why is it mocking to ask you questions? 1 -The abomination + abomination desolation is not complicated What was the abomination of Ezk 8 – when did it repeat – and when will it repeat again?The answer is obvious to anyone with a good understanding of Judaism and prophesy and hard to hear if you are a Christian 2- what is the implications of the curse upon Cain And what is the ‘Mark’ of CainThe Jews have two answers One short and very Christian – but the longer version is interesting Please make another attempt to answer – just explain to me what you have been taught I will post the answers – Jewish and Gnostic - no more games ------------------------------ As for calling me Mr Inconsistent. Sorry but some things are hard to fathom. And mockers mock, I do not have all the finer details to explain some verses as you present.Here is the difference between us – I WANT TO KNOW – I want to understandYou – no offense – are absolutely afraid to look outside of your own pre-prescribed doctrine You – seem so resistant to – afraid – to broaden your education Instead of studying these issue with me – all you do is defend your church And a scientist – any researcher that omits data – ignores data – denies data – always has skewed and biased conclusions In any real investigation – all data must be considered If there was a scroll from the temple of Baal that spoke of Israel and YHWY kicking his ass all over the Levant – I would read that to Marrying many wives is also a sin, but God overlooked this sin when working with Abram.Human sexuality is complicated isn’t it I come from Amish country – when I got divorced ½ of them had to turn away from me As I remarried – the other ½ thinks I am committing adultery My grandparents got undressed in the dark – it would not surprise me if Grandpa never saw all of Grandma naked (or at least that is what I imagine) Yet Jacob fathered the 12 tribes by 5 different women – some married to him – some he owned as property You are making yourself into a mess expecting answers to every finer detail concerning God, I just concentrate on the texts I do understand and leave alone the harder ones.I so disagree – I see this so clearly – it is not complicated You – are stuck in the mess created by your doctrine – your pieces do not fit togetherAnother problem is the type of person God deals with, God takes you as you are and you grow up into understanding, you walk in His way.YES – you are correct – I agree – what you say is true But here is my pointChildren grow up in a church doctrine – they are already trapped by doctrine Adults that choose to seek the lord need a place to start – the corner church And at the corner church – they learn doctrine You – one way or another are fully educated / indoctrinated / brain washed as an SDA at heart My wife grew up Catholic – I grew up Presbyterian – and we all grew up in a Western Roman Christendom Culture Denominations and their doctrines are a trap – Christians get stuck there – never mature Some sit in the same pew for 30 years still hearing John 3:16 Some become Mormon and think Jehovah was once a man Some become Jehovah Witness and think this earth now is heaven – no after life Some become Muslim, Buddhist, Daoist, Scientologist - or whatever To be an SDA with gaps and holes in my theology is not enough for me I want to experience Christ as Paul did – as Peter, John, and James did – as Thomas did – as Isaiah did As Jesus speaks of in John 3 – what is spirit is spirit and animal is animal You are not changed immediately as a new creature, chadesh, it means to renew your standing daily before God, not unto baptism get a brand new body and mind.Agree – to a point If you are retarded before salvation – you are still retarded after salvation I have always been manic – now I am a Christian manic – oh miserable man that I am (Paul) get a brand new body and mind. Hmmm? – I rather think of it as a change in perspective There are several Hebrew words, but the important thing, is NOT all things are easy to fathom about GOD.The Jews say – the right Hand of God instructs and saves – the left hand is the hand of mysteryWhy is it a mystery – Jewish view man just doesn’t see the big picture as God sees it WWII the biggest ra ever = the biggest tov for the Jewish people in hundreds of years I still see GOD as a being that cannot lie, nor cannot sin, If the definition of sin – is the choice not to seek God – not to obey – not to please GodHow can you use the word in association with God?The opposing angels on the other hand hate sinners,, even though such humans sin along with the sinning angels, these sinning angels are not concerned with mankind. They have no functional plans, they are only spoilers who spoil.Object to the term sinning angels as you mean it But Yes – the archon are only spoilers who spoil./ hinder / get in the way / be an obsticleSome may wish to know why sin even came about in perfect creatures of free will. Scripture does not answer this question, because it is a relationship question. Sure it does – Adam and Eve were made perfect until unrighteous was found within themWhy do some relationships to God fail?Because spirits that come into mortality lose sight of heaven and learn about self-preservation instinct Sin is also defined as transgression of law. So God is a God of rules, even though love is not really well defined by rules.Here is the problem with Laws – if you vow (make a promise) to God that you will never drink coffee again – or chew gum again – then you do do it again – you have broken a vow to the Lord Mosanic Law served a valuable purpose – all of it helped Israel live healthy and organized through the hard times of life in Canaan If you answer the question about the abomination I will highlight one of the most misunderstood Laws Self is a disease arising from sin, NO – self is a by-product / inherent to being biological / animal All biology comes with an instinct for self-preservation ---------------------- Problem is Dave you see these opposing forces as good angels doing a bad job. I don't see this.No I don’t – after all this time you still repeat this – and you say I mock you There is no such thing as one species changing their form to be something else Angels – good-guys were created to praise and serve Archon / principalities were created differently and serve a different function Man – is the creature that can choose Re 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. YES – Agree – as per Gen 3:15 Archon vrs man "war" same word in heaven is now used on earth.H342 – אֵיבָה - From H340; hostility: - enmity, hatred. G2189 - ἔχθρα - Feminine of G2190; hostility; by implication a reason for opposition: - enmity, hatred. G4171 – πόλεμος - From πέλομαι pelomai (to bustle); warfare (literally or figuratively; a single encounter or a series): - battle, fight, war.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2021 15:56:41 GMT -5
Greetings Dave You write well and kindly.
Scripture says whatever is good and uplifting think on these things. So my investigations are limited because Scripture tells me. If there is nothing good in them, I don't study them much.
D" If the definition of sin – is the choice not to seek God – not to obey – not to please God How can you use the word in association with God? R" Because one member of God could do something alone without it's consort. You have this in Gnostic writings remember? I read this immediately as wrong, as it showed to me GOD is sinning, and God cannot sin.
You view God as three expressions, they always work as one community, not a left hand not knowing the right hand. That is wrong.
D"NO – self is a by-product / inherent to being biological / animal All biology comes with an instinct for self-preservation R" NO, "instinct for self-preservation" came from sin entering the world.
Ps 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. 26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed
Creation is a simile of a garment, wearing out, needs to be changed. Why? Sin problem.
Isa 51:6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment
Same idea. Earth is wearing out because of sin.
Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Death came into our earth from ONE sin by ONE man, Adam.
You speak of natural decay and death, a flawed world. NO. No such origin for death.
D" G4171 – πόλεμος - From πέλομαι pelomai (to bustle); warfare (literally or figuratively; a single encounter or a series): - battle, fight, war. R" Where is this Greek idea of yours? From πέλομαι pelomai (to bustle); Give me the Greek number, and show me a verse using bustle. Stop throwing stuff at me without the details. I have an open mind, so explain this From πέλομαι pelomai (to bustle); to me....
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 9, 2021 17:41:48 GMT -5
SO all the spiritual man beings were created along with angels, but they forgot everything they saw once they went into earthly bodies of flesh? Nowhere does the torah speak of anything like this.Yes Robert creation is over – there is no new creation after day 6 Everything new in creation after day 6 is biological procreationSo – every time a new human baby is born – God creates another soul to be saved? You deny the spirit – your man is only an animal with memories So sad You have asked me how many questions? How many times have you asked the same question over and over. Why is it mocking to ask you questions? 1 -The abomination + abomination desolation is not complicated What was the abomination of Ezk 8 – when did it repeat – and when will it repeat again? The answer is obvious to anyone with a good understanding of Judaism and prophesy and hard to hear if you are a Christian 2- what is the implications of the curse upon Cain And what is the ‘Mark’ of Cain The Jews have two answers One short and very Christian – but the longer version is interesting Please make another attempt to answer – just explain to me what you have been taught I will post the answers – Jewish and Gnostic Proof – you do not intend to study scriptureYour only motive here is to detract and tear down Anything to protect the strong authority position of your satan And nothing to do with Glorifying God – Praising God You give all the credit to your satan who opposes God and altered all of God’s creation Shame on you I told you before – I know who you are Here is the difference between us – I WANT TO KNOW – I want to understandYou – no offense – are absolutely afraid to look outside of your own pre-prescribed doctrine You – seem so resistant to – afraid – to broaden your education Instead of studying these issue with me – all you do is defend your church And a scientist – any researcher that omits data – ignores data – denies data – always has skewed and biased conclusions In any real investigation – all data must be considered
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Post by Dave on Jan 9, 2021 23:12:20 GMT -5
D" G4171 – πόλεμος - From πέλομαι pelomai (to bustle); warfare (literally or figuratively; a single encounter or a series): - battle, fight, war.R" Where is this Greek idea of yours? From πέλομαι pelomai (to bustle); Give me the Greek number, and show me a verse using bustle. Stop throwing stuff at me without the details. I have an open mind, so explain this From πέλομαι pelomai (to bustle); to me.... R: Re 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. D: YES – Agree – as per Gen 3:15 Archon vrs manR: "war" same word in heaven is now used on earth.D: H342 – אֵיבָה - From H340; hostility: - enmity, hatred. G2189 - ἔχθρα - Feminine of G2190; hostility; by implication a reason for opposition: - enmity, hatred. G4171 – πόλεμος - From πέλομαι pelomai (to bustle); warfare (literally or figuratively; a single encounter or a series): - battle, fight, war. 1- The archon went to make war on the seed (man) "war" same word in heaven is now used on earth. - your point Gen 3:15 I will put animosity between you and the woman—between your seed and her seed. He will crush your head, and you will crush his heel.” 2- Rev 12:7 war = G4171 – πόλεμος - From πέλομαι pelomai (to bustle); warfare (literally or figuratively; a single encounter or a series): - battle, fight, war Gen 3:15 war = H342 – אֵיבָה - From H340; hostility: - enmity, hatred. G2189 - ἔχθρα - Feminine of G2190; hostility; by implication a reason for opposition: - enmity, hatred. Again – war is the least weighted meaning - my point
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2021 4:09:49 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
You write: "Proof – you do not intend to study scripture Your only motive here is to detract and tear down Anything to protect the strong authority position of your satan And nothing to do with Glorifying God – Praising God
My reply is you are way off assessing me as a supporter of God. Spend some time reading through our website, and make your own conclusions. My website hardly mention "Satan" at all.
Typing in my search box "satan" yields only 11 links
Results for satan
(1) Has Satan encouraged corruption in our Bible?
(2) Adversary or Satan are symbols of bad
(3) God allows Satan to afflict Job
(4) Doing bad things is fun? so Satan suggests
(5) The Lord rebukes Satan
(6) Diseased people causes by Satanic angels
(7) Satan is wicked-immoral
(8) Satan does bad things to Job
(9) Two Father's or Provider's: Satan and GOD
(10) how Satan influences Man's nature
(11) secret nets of Satan
Tying in Jesus yields:
Results for Jesus
(1) How to be saved by Jesus
(2) Jesus Christ
(3) saved by Jesus
(4) relationship with Jesus
(5) former rains of Jesus
(6) How fast are we renewed by Jesus?
(7) How to be saved by Jesus?
(8) paradise is a person: Jesus
(9) steps to Jesus in chronological order
(10) Steps to Jesus
(11) Christians are married to Jesus
(12) The first step to Jesus
(13) Jesus
(14) Jesus as Hosea
(15) Jesus never gives up on sinners
(16) Jesus buys us from slavery
(17) Specific relationship sins with Jesus
(18) Jesus love curse
(19) Reasoning with Jesus
(20) Why is sinning a big deal to Jesus?
(21) What does Jesus do for me?
(22) Why can't Jesus empower me
(23) What does Jesus tell the rich young man to do ?
(24) coming home to Jesus
(25) Repentance is a gift for returning home to Jesus
(26) How do we TAKE Jesus words?
(27) What is our sin-offering to Jesus?
(28) Prayer is about Jesus power through you.
(29) Fourth step to Jesus
(30) Jesus afflicted as a Lamb
(31) Jesus afflicts us to save us
(32) Jesus is afflicted or lowly riding upon a donkey
(33) Jesus is gentle with backsliders
(34) Bad sicknesses can be removed by Jesus
(35) Jesus promises to protect us
(36) People do two bad sins: forget Jesus and make their own cisterns
(37) Bad people refuse to follow Jesus
(38) Sabbath in force after Jesus dies
(39) Clinging to Jesus : The opposite is sinning
(40) Trusting money or clinging to Jesus?
(41) Jesus desires to give us His power
(42) The curse when Jesus fills us
(43) Jesus died paying for our guilt
(44) open hard hearts to Jesus
(45) Jesus helps broken heart
(46) Cling to Jesus with all your heart
(47) Jesus is a lover with heart
(48) Jesus mission to broken heart
(49) When Jesus loves us; our hearts can become proud
(50) Jesus heals the broken hearted
(51) Jesus heavenly parents forsake Him
(52) Jesus was meek
(53) Jesus rebuked the storm
(54) The cost of salvation by Jesus
(55) power in Jesus blood for sin-offering
(56) Jesus good news of sin-offering salvation
(57) Jesus offers our sin-offering
(58) Jesus is our strong tower
(59) Self indulgent people have no need of Jesus
(60) Jesus dies once for sin-offering
(61) Righteous do no more sinning in Jesus
(62) whoring feasts to Jesus
(63) FAQ : How am I saved by Jesus?
(64) How to be saved by Jesus
(65) Steps to Christ Jesus
(66) The Home Principle of repenting to Jesus
(67) Did Jesus come forth?
(68) Jesus maleness loved the young man
(69) The Father's maleness love for His Son Jesus
(70) maleness-love one another Jesus says
(71) washing our sin-offerings in Jesus' blood
(72) The medium of the Holy Spirit carries Jesus love in us
(73) maleness love of Jesus
(74) Jesus offends Peter with "femaleness-love me"?
(75) The sacrifice of Jesus brings peace
(76) Jesus uses the Holy Spirit to create
(77) The Third Coming of Jesus
(78) Jesus Christ flesh or nature at birth
(79) Passover meaning for Jesus and Father
(80) The Father empowers His Son Jesus
(81) Father's love and Jesus' love
(82) Did Jesus pre-exist? Yeshua is Yahweh
(83) Did Abraham see Jesus as a Being?
(84) Jesus is eternally divine
(85) salvation sermons about Jesus
(86) Hosea is Jesus in different spelling
(87) A study of Jesus as the Son of Elohim or Elohiym in the Old Testament
(88) why Jesus is God
(89) Finding Jesus in the Old Testament
(90) A small study of "help mate" or "ezer". Jesus is our "help-mate"
(91) Jesus birth or incarnation from heavenly parents
(92) Jesus in the Psalms
(93) Jesus says He is God
(94) Did Jesus allow people to worship Him on earth?
(95) Study of Jesus Rock of Ages about salvation
(96) Jesus rock that feeds bread and water
(97) Jesus is the Yahweh Cela Rock
(98) Sin pride of Shebna' on the Jesus cela Rock
(99) Bible study causes Jesus rock to humble us
(100) Jesus rock upon which we fall
(101) commentaries such as Adam Clarke says Jesus is wisdom personified
(102) Jesus is Lord and King of Israel
(103) Jesus a father of His sheep as Lord
(104) reference Father and Lord Jesus in OT?
(105) Study Jesus is the Adonay Lord in the OT
(106) Jesus is Adonay of God
(107) Jesus is Adonay of salvation
(108) Jesus as Adonay channels His Father's flow
(109) Jesus is Adonay born of a virgin
(110) Jesus is Adonay
(111) Jesus Christ is LORD or YHWH in the Old and New Testaments
(112) Critics who say Jesus Christ is a Master not Lord
(113) Jesus Christ is salvation
(114) Summary Jesus Christ is LORD of LORDS
(115) Jesus is the personal Memra in Old Testament times
(116) Jesus is YHWH of my life: a comparison of religions
(117) Desire of Ages: Jesus our Creator and the Great I AM
(118) forgetting Jesus daily
(119) Proof Jesus pre-existed
(120) Jesus is our example or pattern
(121) Jesus fallen nature
(122) Jesus functioned as an angel in the OT
(123) Jesus is Michael the angelic Being in the OT
(124) Jesus the new ruler and prince of earth
(125) Father's moral law and Jesus moral law
(126) Jesus in the OT
(127) Jesus a master of speech
(128) Jesus works in us quietly
(129) why did Jesus die for sin
(130) Jesus pre-existed
(131) Memrah of Jesus
(132) love feasts of Jesus
(133) humble in Jesus
(134) meekness and hungry for Jesus
(135) Jesus came to save sinners
(136) Jesus is Yeshua in the Old Testament
(137) Family of Jesus
(138) witnessing with miracles and wonders of Jesus power
(139) Jesus pre-existed
(140) Jesus as a 'Mother' as femaleness love
(141) temporal benefits of Jesus
(142) Cultural barriers Jesus deals with
(143) Jesus functions as an angel
(144) Jesus is a burning power
(145) Transfiguration of Jesus
(146) The ultimate salvation example by Jesus
(147) water and wine figures of Jesus death
(148) Jesus is light
(149) Jesus functions as a 'mother'
(150) Jesus symbol of sun
(151) how surrender to Jesus works
(152) how Jesus subdues the sinner
(153) Jesus pre-exists
(154) Jesus was worshipped as LORD
(155) Jesus the good Shepherd
(156) hearing Jesus is seeing Jesus
(157) Jesus is our everlasting Father
(158) defining death and Muslims ask if Jesus is GOD how can GOD die?
(159) testing we have Jesus and overcoming doubt
(160) Science of Salvation in Jesus
(161) The SOP are Jesus words to us in English
(162) Jesus leads us by his hand and her hand
(163) Jesus control of death
(164) defining Jesus religion
(165) How to be saved by Jesus or Salvation by Jesus
(166) How to be saved by Jesus using verses from the New Testament
(167) believers must support Jesus
(168) when Jesus loves us do we love Jesus?
(169) voluntary sacrifice of Jesus
(170) grace means beauty of Jesus
(171) Why Jesus died or the "Relationship Exchange" of Christ on the cross
(172) Jesus is "sent of GOD"
(173) Gethsemane and Jesus suffering
(174) How humans are deceived by Jesus' truth
(175) true and false witness of Jesus' teachings
(176) Jesus on the Cross
(177) third coming of Jesus
(178) master or Lord Jesus?
(179) Jesus in agony
(180) Proof Jesus pre-existed
(181) Infinite sacrifice of Jesus with life for life
(182) The grave clothes of Jesus
(183) the Father ratified the sacrifice of Jesus
(184) receiving the joy of Jesus
(185) how to be saved by Jesus
(186) Jesus is YHWH
(187) Jesus heals with miracles today
(188) lacking support for Jesus
(189) From Mount Olives Jesus leaves
(190) supporting Jesus
(191) how to be saved by Jesus or getting started in Jesus
(192) How to see Jesus
(193) speaking Jesus
(194) Jesus in the Old Testament
(195) deeper salvation from Jesus
(196) praying to Jesus
(197) how to surrender to Jesus
(198) witnessing for Jesus
(199) the feasts unto Jesus
(200) why Jesus died
(201) how to have faith in Jesus
(202) King Jesus
(203) Jesus love as a hen
(204) Hebrew names of Jesus Christ
(205) Memrah of Jesus
(206) heart feelings for Jesus
(207) how to be saved by Jesus
(208) ten commandments added words by Jesus
(209) GMO humans before Jesus comes
(210) walking with Jesus
(211) Jesus the word personified
(212) Jesus in Gethsemane
(213) cross over to Jesus
(214) Jesus as both rocks of salvation
(215) Jesus is our Father's Overseer
(216) Jesus simile of Jacob
(217) Jesus wrestles with Jacob
(218) Jesus our help-mate
(219) YHWH Jesus King
(220) Jesus Christ named in OT
(221) gifts to Jesus
(222) prayer Jesus quoted dying on the Cross
(223) red crimson worm of Jesus
(224) third coming of Jesus
(225) babes in Jesus
(226) Jesus the strong Christ in the Old Testament
(227) three Hebrew words name Jesus in OT
(228) Jesus functions as both rocks of salvation
(229) Jesus net of salvation
(230) how Jesus forgives
(231) Jesus supports Father
(232) Jesus alone leads
(233) Jesus mother's belly
(234) maturity in Jesus
(235) ponder Jesus
(236) Jesus named in OT
So I am very serious about seeking Jesus in my life, and learning how to get more and more of Jesus power flowing through me.
You have asked me to do studies that do not really matter to our salvation that much Dave.
If I asked you, where in Scripture does it speak of the steps to Jesus, that a person does daily in order to be saved by Jesus, so you grow in His power daily, where is this Bible passage, and where would you go looking?
Or if I asked you how do you get more and more of faith?
These questions are more important to me. In fact over 3/4 of my website is devoted to this pursuit.
As for G4171 – πόλεμος - From πέλομαι pelomai (to bustle);
You didn't help me find a verse that uses the context of bustle? Maybe there isn't one?
D' You – no offense – are absolutely afraid to look outside of your own pre-prescribed doctrine You – seem so resistant to – afraid – to broaden your education
R that's not true, I spent a whole year going over your Gnostic writings.
You have taught me much about Jewish thought and Jewish ways.
You have also been patient with me.
Your friends think you should abandon me.
I find it strange that when we read Hebrew, we don't read the Hebrew. We mix the verses with Greek thinking or Gnostic overtones. To me a purer understanding is to stick to the Moses torah and the prophets that agree with Moses writings. That is safer and Biblical.
SHalom my friend
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Post by Dave on Jan 10, 2021 16:31:30 GMT -5
So I am very serious about seeking Jesus in my life, and learning how to get more and more of Jesus power flowing through me. You have asked me to do studies that do not really matter to our salvation that much Dave.
But you do not care to study God’s Word You just said – its OK If you don’t know the big picture – you do not care to be a student of God’s Word But yet you are serious
Your friends think you should abandon me.
Let me make my position very clear –
1- I weight scripture If God said it = fact Trinity = If Christ said it = God said it If the disciples wrote it – really Good If Rome wrote it – last on my list
2- JESUS SAID – therefore these words are FACT – no metaphore
Mat 12:25 Knowing their thoughts, Yeshua said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is destroyed, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand.
Mar 3:24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
3- The very idea of your Great Controversy is a blasphemy One of God’s most loved angels – is now opposing God with an army of God’s own angels
4- No one ever saw your satan in Ezk 28 or Isa 14 – until Rome wrote it And then repeated it over and over for the last 2000 yrs
5- Your friends think you should abandon me. I would never abandon you – but you should give up trying to convince me – all Messianic Jews – and the entire Hebrew speaking community that you have two verses that override all of scripture
Israel has stood and died for their God for centuries You will never convince them their God is weak or that Christians have decided to divide God’s Kingdom against itself or that satan is anything more than a servant of the Lord
I find it strange that when we read Hebrew, we don't read the Hebrew. We mix the verses with Greek thinking or Gnostic overtones. To me a purer understanding is to stick to the Moses torah and the prophets that agree with Moses writings. That is safer and Biblical.
For most theologians – scripture tells us how to study the mission has been to learn precept upon precept A precept is a concept / a commandment / a teaching / an instruction / a principle
YOU CHANGE IT TO YOUR ROBRT METHOD Precept upon precept became word for word – with zero polysemy Then you start stumbling over words Then you employ such a flexible metaphor mechanism to morph the scripture to fit into your pre-set doctrine that has no flexibility to the point your missing the meaning / the depth
Think about it be honest with yourself How is it necessary to believe in your satan for salvation Answer – it is not necessary
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Post by Dave on Jan 11, 2021 13:25:33 GMT -5
Please don't take this as a personal attack - but Ponder this:
So I am very serious about seeking Jesus in my life, and learning how to get more and more of Jesus power flowing through me.
Selfish
Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
I am very serious about seeking Jesus in my life, and learning how to get more to be able to give more / share more / witness more to others / onto the nations – anyone / everyone so they can - to get more and more of Jesus power flowing through them
You have asked me to do studies that do not really matter to our salvation that much Dave.
Our job is to witness Knowledge is power = The more of the Torah you know - the more you understand - the better grasp of the bigger picture - the more questions you are able to answer - if you love the Lord and his word – isn’t anything you can learn about scripture or from scripture of interest
How can you be an effective witness – if you say this is not relevant?
Pretend for a moment that you are told by God to go and witness to the Australian Football League Would you answer God’s call – or feel unqualified – Noah
There you stand – a PROUD servant of the Lord – in front of all of them On National Television – worldwide exposure Isn’t this the dream of every evangelical missionary?
I am an Islamic plant in the audience My question to you in front of all these football fanatics / fans / business owners / football players Sir – why should we listen to your witness when God forbids us from playing the game? You would replay – God doesn’t say anything about football in the Torah Sir – the Law of Moses prevents us from touching the skin of a dead pig You - There are many medical reasons why Pork tartar is deadly / unhealthy Sir – that is not the question – we are forbidden from even touching the skin of a dead pig
Can believers of the Torah play football or not? Explain this
Go Robert – your on – the whole world is listening What is your witness?
Do you suggest that stuff inside the Torah is not relevant – not important – should be overlooked today? If you do the debate changes as to what is – and what is not – important What is and what is not a metaphor – what is literal
To me – it is all relevant / literal / and is not contradictory
Tell us – what is your response ?
Sir – the question – we are forbidden from even touching the skin of a dead pig Can believers of the Torah play football or not? Explain this
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2021 14:11:27 GMT -5
Greetings Dave You quote Matthew 12: 25, but leave out a fuller context: Mt 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: 26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? 27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. 29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.You say " 1- I weight scripture If God said it = fact Trinity = If Christ said it = God said it
Well consider the verse passage you supplied: Why does Jesus speak of hey-satan in the next verse, who has a kingdom. Than in the next verse Jesus relabels this hey-satan into a NAME called Beelzebub, a name Jews understood as a Being having a kingdom on earth, which you said comes from Solomons time, these many SHEDIM are devils, or really sinning angels acting as devils. But notice there are TWO kingdoms mentioned here by Jesus, kingdom of hey-satan termed Beelzebub, and the kingdom of God, led by the Spirit of God. You would agree perhaps hey-satan-Beelzebub is a Prince of a kingdom on earth, but only opposes man, Not GOD. Hmm? Well if that is true, why does Jesus come to overthrow this Prince and His Kingdom?Mt 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; So if you being influenced by the hey-satan-Beelzebub is a Prince of a kingdom on earth, than you're against Jesus, because Jesus came to overthrow the hey-satan-Beelzebub is a Prince of a kingdom on earth, didn't he Dave? THan you write: " 3- The very idea of your Great Controversy is a blasphemy One of God’s most loved angels – is now opposing God with an army of God’s own angels
So this hey-satan-Beelzebub is a Prince of a kingdom on earth, is a most loved angel, now opposing God with an army of God's own angels??? Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. This is a law regarding how GOD sees the straight Beings or the crooked Beings. Since cherub are created, we can assume they must have free will because cherubs can also chata, ie: sin. Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; Since any creature who is created, and thus can sin, can also be divorced from God, thus these crooked ones are no longer straight, and thus sadly do not belong to God anymore. Such laws would equally apply to any created creature. Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Michael is an commander over angelic beings, who fought over the dragon and his angelic beings. Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. Michael is also known as YHWH, who rebukes the devil over the body of Moses. Da 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia Michael is also called a chief prince, sar, just as hey-satan-Beelzbub is also termed a prince of earth with a kingdom by Jesus. Da 12:1 ¶ And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people Notice Michael shall stand up... When did Michael sit down? Da 7:9 ¶ I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, Here the Father-YHWH sits down. Da 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: Notice a SON of MAN comes near the the Father and we assume sits down next to the Father, while the Father gives this Being a kingdom on earth. But we have already a kingdom on earth ruled by the prince hey-satan-Beelzbub is also termed a prince of earth. So now TWO kingdoms on earth and ONE kingdom is being set up by the Ancient of Days. This passage is the only passage of Being or Beings sitting down, and there are we assume TWO beings here, and we assume both sit down, ie One sits down, and later Michael stands up, why? To go and collect His Kingdom the Father has finally given Him. Now you suppose in all this "hey-satan-Beelzbub is also termed a prince of earth, with His kingdom" that this prince never opposes God, so why does the Father give His Son, the Son of Man, a kingdom in addition to this "hey-satan-Beelzbub is also termed a prince of earth"? Such kingdoms must by logic, oppose each other, and hence oppose GOD too. D" or that Christians have decided to divide God’s Kingdom against itselfYou're saying Jesus did not come to divide God's kingdom against itself? So why did Jesus say to the Jews ? Joh 8:48 Jews claim to follow Abram, Moses and God, anybody who does not do this are Samaritan, or following a Devil. Notice the Jews speak of two kingdoms. Kingdom of God or Kingdom of Devil. Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. SO there are TWO kingdoms on earth, with TWO Fathers in charge of those kingdoms. These are Father-Devil and Father-God. Jews claimed to be under Father-God, but Jesus told them ye are under Father-Devil. The only case of Christians dividing the Father-God kingdom, is when they follow both Masters. Jesus says ye must follow only one Master. Ye cannot serve two Masters. SO if both of these kingdoms exist on earth and both have 'fathers' than they must oppose each other, by logic. Jesus said He had come to overthrow the Prince of Earth, and thus His kingdom. "D" but you should give up trying to convince me – all Messianic Jews – and the entire Hebrew speaking community that you have two verses that override all of scriptureOK, than let's speak of something Jews also did not know about "amanuah". Only mentioned once in Habbakuk 2. And without "amanuah" no person is saved. This is yet another subject Jews did not understand either, and my study has nothing to do with Rome edit, Rome does not understand amanuah either. D" YOU CHANGE IT TO YOUR ROBRT METHOD Precept upon precept became word for word – with zero polysemy Then you start stumbling over wordsR" My method works OK Dave on Hebrew words. Prove it wrong to me, and I shall abandon everything and follow your ideas. Take "elohiym" for instance, reading Gordon Nehemia report, excellent job on this word, yet being a Jew, he ignores some 6 verses in favour of the thousands he likes. Yes I follow zero polysemy in a Hebrew word study, but Jews do not like this idea. I quote Gordons own words" " Let us remember that the rule of Elohim receiving a singular verb does actually work in some 2000 instances and the three verses just mentioned are the only exceptions in the entire Tanach. ...Could it be that these three anomalous verses hint at some great mystery about the paradoxical and contradictory nature of God? Or is there a much simpler, linguistic explanation?"To view my assessment of Gordon, click here spiritualsprings.org/ss-996.htmWe could also do a word study of "el" or "al" the word does not have polysemy either. For example, Strong's word 410, spelled "el" or "al" means according to Strong, the following meanings:- (1) God (god), (2) goodly, (3) great, (4) idol, (5) might(-y one), (6) power, (7) strong. See the problem? This Hebrew word "al" can have seven English word meanings...The translators should try to make one English word fit, because this would alert the reader to know each Hebrew word is translated consistently and faithfully. "el" means "strong authority" for all verses. See my study on this word: spiritualsprings.org/ss-1391.htmI remember us disagreeing over the meaning of Greek word: 2525. kayisthmi kathistemi, kath-is'-tay-mee
Search for G2525 in KJV from 2596 and 2476; to place down (permanently), i.e. (figuratively) to designate, constitute, convoy:--appoint, be, conduct, make, ordain, set
Remember Dave? spiritualsprings.org/ss-1095.htmTo me, this word simply means to "rule" or "establish a ruler" for all contexts. Zero polysemy. Than there is the Hebrew word "ab" which seems to suggest by Jeff Benner polysemy with two basic meanings "father" and "fruit". But looking over the verses, the word meaning "provider" fits all seentence, zero polysemy. A father is a provider. Fruit trees in the valley are providers too. This Robert Method you speak of, just doesn't work well for few sentences. However it is a solar scriptoria method to extablish word meanings of words in Hebrew. D" How is it necessary to believe in your satan for salvation Answer – it is not necessaryR It's not, so let's speak about amanuah instead... Dave asks" Sir – the question – we are forbidden from even touching the skin of a dead pig Can believers of the Torah play football or not? Explain this A simple answer is no, they can't play football. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 11, 2021 15:39:44 GMT -5
Why does Jesus speak of hey-satan in the next verse, who has a kingdom.
Than in the next verse Jesus relabels this hey-satan into a NAME called Beelzebub, a name Jews understood as a Being having a kingdom on earth, which you said comes from Solomons time, these many SHEDIM are devils, or really sinning angels acting as devils.
YES! – not angels at all – but a different creature all together – the archon
But notice there are TWO kingdoms mentioned here by Jesus, kingdom of hey-satan termed Beelzebub, and the kingdom of God, led by the Spirit of God.
YES! – if the kingdom of the archon is divided against itself it cannot stand YES! – all the archon are of the same function
You would agree perhaps hey-satan-Beelzebub is a Prince of a kingdom on earth, but only opposes man, Not GOD. Hmm?
Correct – they oppose man – Gen 3:15
Well if that is true, why does Jesus come to overthrow this Prince and His Kingdom? To liberate man from the archon – DUH – it is called salvation
So if you being influenced by the hey-satan-Beelzebub is a Prince of a kingdom on earth, than you're against Jesus, NO you are not – you are just lost into another doctrine There is not one Mormon out there who is anti-Jesus – they are very religious and worship like Christians – yet miss
If you spend all your time involved in football and have no time for God You are just lost
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, YEP – the archom made with some matter – who act selfishly – were not allowed to remain within the heaven near God’s throne – absolutely Correct
Michael is an commander over angelic beings, who fought over the dragon and his angelic beings. The First Archon and his archon shedim - Correct
Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Correct – a conflict over a man – or a man’s body = Gen 3:15
SO there are TWO kingdoms on earth, with TWO Fathers in charge of those kingdoms. Correct God’s Kingdom = everything – example the whole world – all the nations of the world Beelzebub’s kingdom – is a small corner – North Korea
Dave asks" Sir – the question – we are forbidden from even touching the skin of a dead pig Can believers of the Torah play football or not? Explain this A simple answer is no, they can't play football. WOW - no explination for all these people who love football So the next question from the audience = why not – why can’t a Torah believer touch the skin of a dead pig
The next question would be Why do you say Christians must still keep those 613 Laws Aren’t Christians under a New Covenant?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2021 13:16:32 GMT -5
Greetings Dave, You lost me completely, and on something you have never proved using Scripture. You keep saying the SHEDIM and the ARCHON are NOT of angelic origin, but an entirely different creature. Thus you have a created creature in heaven, that is now on earth, I don't know about? A quick google search reveals a mass of made up stuff: Quote " According to one legend, the shedim are descendants of serpents, or of demons in the form of serpents, alluding to the serpent in Eden as related in Genesis.
According to one common view, they are the offsprings of Lilith,[12] from her union with Adam or other men."
The Talmud describes the Shedim as possessing some traits of angels, and some traits of humans[16]:
In three ways they are like ministering angels: They have wings like ministering angels; and they fly from one end of the world to the other like ministering angels; and they know what will be in the future like ministering angels. And in three ways they are similar to humans: They eat and drink like humans; they multiply like humans; and they die like humans.Gnostic wiki " Evidently from works such as the Apocryphon of John, the Ophite Diagrams, On the Origin of the World and Pistis Sophia, archons play an important role in Gnostic cosmology. Probably originally referring to the Greek daimons of the planets, in Gnosticism they became the demonic rulers of the material world, each associated with a different celestial sphere.[3] As rulers over the material world, they are called ἄρχοντες (archontes, "principalities", or "rulers"). Perhaps this link thegodabovegod.com/five-dangerous-archons-gnostic-gospels/Quote "They are never depicted as reptilian in Classic Gnostic texts, except for perhaps having a lizard-face like the Archon Yao in the Secret Book of John. They are portrayed as hermaphrodite creatures owning different bestial faces, with an appetite for rape and brawling. They are a mixture of heavenly administrators and hellish union goons. Borrowing from William James and his take on God, they are omnipotent to the extent they can do what is possible, omniscient to the extent they can know what is known. Sorry Dave, like reading demonic stuff, too weird, can't find any info saying what archons are, or their origins. Jews say part angel part human. Weird. Way too confusing. From your Gnostic writings before you state the HS made a mistake and a chief archon emerged alive, became self and fathered other archons like him. So this make the archons a brand new different creature. And angels are totally different creature to archons. Only problem with this theory, there is NO proof for it in the Moses torah, or prophets. You have send before Paul lists creatures to watch out for "arche" But I do not find any origin of this word except it means "beginnings" There is no torah proof that arche, is a different created creature. Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. This verse lists arche with angelic messenger, hence I suspect the arche are of angelic origin, NOT different created creatures. Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. 10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. It is clear that the shedim referenced here are also functional term for arche, and therefore arche associated with angelic messengers. I do not find any assessment, they are of different created creatures. They are fallen angels who sinned. That is all the torah speaks about. I will keep this post to a single theme, and an important one. Please show me how the arche are not of angelic origin, but of a different created kind. D" YES! – not angels at all – but a different creature all together – the archonD" Michael is an commander over angelic beings, who fought over the dragon and his angelic beings. The First Archon and his archon shedim - CorrectYou are on one hand opposing me, than agreeing with me??? Michael did not fight with angels, according to you because the arche are not angels?? There was no war in heaven over angels, the war was over arche, a brand new created creature rarely detailed in the torah. This bright star, who wanted to be a Father God, now sent to the Hell, is also an arche according to you, but also termed bane elohiym, which wicked people follow? You ignore the cherub chata in Ezekiel, but happy to pursue arche where no origins of arche are explained? Please explain the origin of arche, but do not use angels?Shalom
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