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Post by Dave on Jul 19, 2022 1:37:31 GMT -5
False advertising is a lie and punishable by law, what about saying something was 700W motor and than discovering it not as advertized? "sorry for incovenience" is all you get?Why are you so naive as to how the world works? That motor tested perfectly the day it was manufactured – there is a record of it on file If you doubt it – find a lawyer and sue them What you will probably find out is that the testing policy is to test 1 of each batch – 1 per hour – and on an average they all test within 20% of 700W Or Chinese hacksaws that break in 3 strokes, while Japanese hacksaws last 10 years or more?Why do you confuse quality with truth – are the Chinese blade advertised to last 10 yrs? Chinese water pressure switch lasted 10 days, while a Italian pressure switch is lasting 15 yrs or more?Why do you confuse quality with truth – I bet there is a 100% return policy that will only cost you 3 times what the product cost -------------- D"The serpent said – NOT die (present) + die (future imperative) R" What? The serpent negated God's words? Correct – God did not give all the information, because it wasn’t indicated at the time The serpent – did not lie about what God said – he just included more information – that made no sense to EveD"Did the serpent lie in Genesis 3:5? R" I disagree, Of course you do – you need your satan to be responsible for Eve Eve made her own choicesD"YES – I absolutely deny there are two gods locked in a cosmic battel for the control of Gods Domain R" twist, I never said that....why are you stubborn?D"YES – I absolutely deny there are two gods locked in a cosmic battel for the control of Gods Kingdom R" twist, I never said that.... The Great Controversy is a spiritual battle, a conflict over God's character and His right to rule the universe. GOD’S RIGHT TO RULE THE UNIVERSE?R" Have you never read the opposes objective? Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. The opposer wishes to replace the Father as a ruler.Your Ellen White SDA Great Controversy teaching is not consistent with Judeo-Christian scripture or theology Answer – it is NOT – Jewish monotheism – there is only one God YHWY Answer – it is not Christian monotheism – There is only One True God that exist in a Trinity
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2022 4:31:26 GMT -5
D" Correct – God did not give all the information, because it wasn’t indicated at the time The serpent – did not lie about what God said – he just included more information – that made no sense to EveR" I watched Jeff Benner video again, He does not explain the Hebrew word, stem and suffix of the phrases used....He assumes.... Here are the phrases. One needs to unpack the stem and prefix and suffix carefully. Gen 2:17 is a repetition of "muwth muwth with added suffix". How do you describe intensity in the Hebrew language? In English (and other languages), there are different words to describe the intensity of something. For example, red, redder, reddest. Or sad, sadder, saddest. Or holy, holier, holiest. But in Hebrew, there aren't different words to describe the intensity, thus they would use a word multiple times to describe the intensity. The Hebrew meaning is an intensity of death. What I call the second death, is far more intense than the first death, a mere sleeping in the earth. Gen 3:3, the woman replies with a different word? related to muwth, but a different word, the letters are rearranged? The opposer speaks something different too. No muwth with Eve's word. I need some help? What Hebrew word does Eve say? Hebrew Hub lists the word as the same a "muwth". How can this be? The three letter stem for muwth is rearranged, so it cannot be the same word? Plus there is prefix and suffix? Can you make sense of why Hebrew does this? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 19, 2022 6:44:22 GMT -5
D"Correct – God did not give all the information, because it wasn’t indicated at the time The serpent – did not lie about what God said – he just included more information – that made no sense to Eve
R" I watched Jeff Benner video again, He does not explain the Hebrew word,
LEARN TO TRANSLATE – and stop playing your word games The only way the serpent lied – is if the promise of eternal life is a lie Why do you want to preach doubt? - Christian
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2022 13:48:28 GMT -5
The serpent was not privy to the promise of eternal life, when Adam sinned. Only God was.
The serpent only knew the affects from his own sinning....something you do not support.
So the serpent lied, but I asked you for help with the Hebrew lines, Jeff doesn't go into much?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 20, 2022 14:25:48 GMT -5
The serpent was not privy to the promise of eternal life, when Adam sinned. Only God was. The serpent only knew the affects from his own sinning....something you do not support.Correct – I do not support your imaginary backstory Where is your scripture? All the scriptures support that the serpent an intelligent / knowledgeable, crafty, deceptive CON MANCorrect – I do not support your imaginary backstory - necessary to validate your doctrineSo the serpent lied,but I asked you for help with the Hebrew lines, Jeff doesn't go into much? Learn to translate because you cannot even explain your own Robert method REMEMBER THE QUESTION?D" Why don’t you understand your own translation? The Robert method is flawed – error – garbage – misleading – you change scripture into anything you want it to say R" Not so, I follow Jeff Benner as nearly always on this, he says the term chataah is not just "error" but the idea of sacrifice to atone for those errors. . D"I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU MEAN BY REWRITING SCRIPTURER" When a sinner sins, he had to in the OT torah sacrifice a pet lamb thus confessing his sin unto the lamb, and the lamb when killed caused your sins to be lifted away. The sin was thus transferred into the earthly sanctuary.1 – a sin offering does not have to be a lamb – it is Korbats 2- YES – sin offerings were offered as sacrifices – for sin (G266) 3- YES – you made the point = we all believe that Jesus Christ was a “Sin-Offering” for OUR SIN (G266)What does your POINT B – have to do with my Question AYou are preaching contradictory gobbelty gook How does your comments prove that the Greek word #266 = a sin offering Sin (G266) was brought into the world by a “sin-offering” a sacrifice for sin The High priest my make an atonement – for the “sin-offerings” (G266) of the people AND our High-Priest (Jesus Christ) is without “Sin-offering” (G266) D "All you have proven - is that your Robert Method is error and adds to your confusion Then why can’t you explain your own Robert Method translation
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2022 15:07:45 GMT -5
God is not going to tell his creatures everything about His own ways, especially if a creature is opposing Him.
Jeff Benner says God spoke "death death" twice in Gen 2:17, this means intensity when a Hebrew word is mentioned twice, so refers to the intensity of death, a second death is more intense than the first death, which is just a sleep. The second death is a permanent end of your existence.
The translations "surely die" makes no sense. "dying die" not much help either. "die later in the future" Hmm? better?
Death also has to be understood in terms of divinity in relationship to the creature, because only divinity lives, matter cannot live without divinity. So the first death is a semi partly broken relationship with GOD and the second death is a complete breaking of relationship with God.
The first is a sleep, but you remain under God's domain, control and memory of your existence. The second is a state of nothingness, all memories and all being of you as a person is lost forever. Not even God can or will bring you back, it's the eternal end for you as an entity.
Eve spoke something different, using the word "Death" but as Jeff explains, she thought she would immediately die.
The serpent told her NO, you would not immediately die. So Jeff explains the serpent did not lie, but deceived here with the truth.
The video is subtle and makes assumptions I do not agree with.
First of all if relationships are required for living, than death is a sever of relationships on a subatomic and spiritual level. Hence Eve is correct, when we did eat of the tree of the opposing elohiym power, she did feel an immediate breakdown of the relationship that makes her living, the HS shrunk around her, and she became naked.
Many people are confused to what death really means. Remaining alive is a probation experience of God's grace, some remain alive longer despite the fact their natural body should have died already, but God can and does override natural forces He controls.
I get what Jeff is saying and you agree with him, the serpent did not lie, but I also would disagree with Jeff, and say "to deceive somebody with the truth" is a sin already. And the statements are much more deeper as He would like us believe.
This is my two pennies, so I go out on a limb here.
1) Eve and Adam did experience immediate death, and the journey towards the second death, as God warned them. But God stepped in the save them from this mischief caused to them, by offering to die the second death, they were to experience. A Saviour experienced the second death for them. The command for mischief says this, life for life. It means eternal living for eternal death.
2) It was grace and compassion that God saved us from the second death experience, which was stayed by God's grace, because of the mischief that the Mother of Living experienced from the Mischief Maker. The serpent did not know about this salvation process, He also sinned but has not died the second death, so assumed the death process must be wrong or something else, hence He lied to cover over the experience, because nothing bad has happened to him?
Jeff explains God says now they have become like us, knowing good and evil. He explains this is the meaning of elohiym, to know good and evil. God knows good and evil, but has never sinned to know good and evil. Creatures can only know good and evil, after they sin. The reason for this is because GOD never creates using evil or RA, everything is only ever TOV or good.
However Dave totally disagrees with this idea, saying God naturally tolerates RA, this makes a mockery of the two trees on the Garden, demonstrating two elohiym powers, not one elohiym power, with a creature of RA designed to test the loyalty of humans under free will. No wonder you ignore Ezek 28 cherub sinned, because you wish to hold GOD Himself as the originator of SIN and RA. The man blamed the woman, the woman blamed the serpent, and Dave agrees, the serpent was programmed to do what it was programmed to do, so blames GOD for its programming nature. I do not buy into this origin of sin and RA, and thus freely accept the infallible torah which say the cherub sinned. Sin originated in the cherub who sinned first, causing mischief to Eve, who sinned next.
Thus for the serpent to also know good and evil, since he speaks of this idea, the serpent must have sinned some time in the past, and become an opposing elohiym power as the Ten Commandment says. "No opposing elohiym powers before my face"
You mentioned the beast power is a religious power, you suggest Islam as a beast power. But you do not acknowledge the serpent in heaven was once a religious power opposing God. War in heaven? The only religious power that opposes God, has to be RA and thus sinning itself. A system to allows for more sinning and thus more RA to exist. Religion is defined as the words you live by.
Contrast to this is TOV, where nothing RA exists, and one truly lives, hence tree of life.
The serpent's tree is well named, because he mixes both good and bad elements into his religion, that directly oppose God. The fact that the serpent knew elohiym knows both good and evil, proves the serpent is an opposing elohiym power himself, and thus sinned to achieve this knowing of good and evil.
But you ignore the cherub sinned verse don't you?
You need to really take stock at what Moses torah wrote in Genesis. And I am beginning to see exactly what the serpent was more clearly now.
Ge 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
SO let's assume Jeff is correct, the woman will not immediately die,
Ge 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
SO Eve can become an elohiym power.
This proves the serpent is also an elohiym power, since the serpent knows good and evil also.
Ge 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
How come man is not allowed to continue eating of the tree of life and life forever knowing ra? Because that would be serving two masters, and one can only serve one master. Man chose to serve under the opposing elohiym power, so GOD stops them serving under His elohiym power. And God kicks them out of His garden.
However before they go in the opposing elohiym' power's world, God forgives them and allows them grace and a Saviour offering salvation. Thus Adam and Eve choose to remain under God as their elohiym power, but this requires the sin-offering punishment of the second death, for the life for life command found in the ten commandment judgements, so when Adam Sinned, he brought the "life for life" consequence into the world and thus death from our Saviour because of our sins. God great is God's love to offer His Son to lay down His life for His friends. John 3 :16.
The serpent does not get this offer of salvation as no mischief was done to their natures after sin, they could repent freely if they wished too. But they have since seared their conscience with a hot iron, especially after killing the Son of Man in a cruel manner.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 21, 2022 7:05:56 GMT -5
]God is not going to tell his creatures everything about His own ways, especially if a creature is opposing Him. Why is it necessary to misrepresent scripture or others to make your doctrine correct? You simply invent theology as you go along to bend scripture to your doctrineJeff Benner says God spoke "death death" twice in Gen 2:17, this means intensity when a Hebrew word is mentioned twice, so refers to the intensity of death, a second death is more intense than the first death, which is just a sleep. The second death is a permanent end of your existence. Absolutely Correct - The second death is a permanent end of your existence. The serpent said NOT - The only way the serpent lied is if the promise of eternal life is a lieI get what Jeff is saying and you agree with him, the serpent did not lie, but I also would disagree with Jeff, and say "to deceive somebody with the truth" is a sin already. You have NO scripture supporting your doctrine You must play your word games – and disagree with Jeff, scripture, and the dictionaryJeff explains God says now they have become like us, knowing good and evil. He explains this is the meaning of elohiym, to know good and evil. God knows good and evil, but has never sinned to know good and evil. Knowledge – makes you intelligent – it does NOT make you a godCreatures can only know good and evil, after they sin. Creatures only UNDERSTAND the consequences of sin / Creatures only UNDERSTAND the the difference between tov and ra The second tree was not the tree of evil – it was not the tree of satan – it was the tree of knowledgeThe reason for this is because GOD never creates using evil or RA, everything is only ever TOV or good. However Dave totally disagrees with this idea, saying God naturally tolerates RA, Dave believes in the One True God who is the Creator of the ALLIsa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. No wonder you ignore Ezek 28 cherub sinned, because you wish to hold GOD Himself as the originator of SIN and RA. Dave believes in the One True God who is the Creator of the ALL Sin and death entered the world through EveRom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: You mentioned the beast power is a religious power, you suggest Islam as a beast power. But you do not acknowledge the serpent in heaven was once a religious power opposing God. War in heaven? If you bow and worship - Caesar – does this force Caesar to be in heaven waring with against God? If you bow and worship – the Pope does this force the Pope to be in heaven waring with against God?The only religious power that opposes God, has to be RA and thus sinning itself. A system to allows for more sinning and thus more RA to exist. Religion is defined as the words you live by. Correct – anything that takes your focus away from God = your worldly godBut you ignore the cherub sinned verse don't you? I have begged and begged you to give me one verse where your satan god disobey God or opposes God Where is your scripture – just to repeat Ellen White does not replace scripture Your belief in two gods and two kings is a pagan religion that elevates evil to godhood awhile diminishes the One True God into a position of weakness---------------------- You need to really take stock at what Moses torah wrote in Genesis. And I am beginning to see exactly what the serpent was more clearly now. Ge 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: SO let's assume Jeff is correct, the woman will not die, Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life
I assume scripture is correct – I assume God is correctREMEMBER THE QUESTION?Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man chataah entered into the world, ( Adam sinned and wrought sin-offering into the world, I become a sinner, but am not born sinning, though I am born into the world with sin-offering) Big difference between the two ideas.Heb 2:17 .... to make reconciliation for the sin-offerings of the people. Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without " sin-offering". We have to affirm is the word hamartia chata or chataah? Rom 5:12 because of one man’s SACRIFICE FOR SIN – sin and death entered the world Heb 2:17 The High Priest must make an atonement – for the peoples SACRIFICES FOR SIN Heb 4:15 Jesus Christ is (G5565 – χωρίς - at a space, that is, separately or apart from (often as preposition): - beside, by itself, without.) a Sin Offering Why won’t you explain your own Robert Method translation?Answer – because it is NONSENSE
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2022 14:28:17 GMT -5
D" The serpent said NOT - The only way the serpent lied is if the promise of eternal life is a lieR" The serpent didn't know about salvation offered to humans who have undergone mischief from a mischief maker? A judgement is that which is applied by a judge after the sins are committed. The serpent knew the ten commandments, but not the judgements, ie how the ten commandments are applied in various circumstances. For one, no creatures had sinned before, so the judgements need not be written or be known. If you say the serpent knew of God's salvation offered to humans, why didn't the serpent counterfeit the salvation system first? He always follows after, never before, meaning He only learns about God's plans afterwards. D" You have NO scripture supporting your doctrine You must play your word games – and disagree with Jeff, scripture, and the dictionaryR" The fact I can write logical thinking for you proves my logic is sound and reasonable. Where is your logic and discussion presented? You don't present any? A mischief maker judgement is based on "no wounding" the commandment to preserve living. The serpent had not done mischief to humans before, so did not know the consequences of wounding them. And since nothing had ever died, nor did the serpent know about anything dying before. However you assume death is a natural state of living. Please discuss this silly logic of yours, because it says plainly in the Scriptures God is a God of the living, not the dead. That means God never intended any creature to end its state of living. D" Knowledge – makes you intelligent – it does NOT make you a godR" Now who goes against Benner? you do? Jeff says any creature that knows both good and evil, is an elohiym power. You speak of "god" whatever that means to you. The word "god" does not exist in the torah, nor even defined that way. So I suppose you think only the one Father in heaven is truly "G_D" whatever that means. OK G_D does not define Himself, so please stop making up invented words, He simply says I am who I am. And has no named either. The word YHWH is not a name, it's a meaning "He who exists". It is a matter of disrespect to term the great I AM as "god", not a hebrew word. Made up by humans and humans wisdom. The Hebrew word "AL" means "strong authority" The Hebrew word "ALOHM" means "one who knows good and evil" These definitions come from Jeff Benner, my Hebrew expert I trust. Any creature can become an elohiym power, knowing good and evil, simply by sinning. Duh, that does not make them a creator Duh, that does not make them powerful Duh, that does not make them almighty. But according to Jeff Benner, and the Moses torah, it does make them like elohiym power, knowing good and evil. D"T he second tree was not the tree of evil – it was not the tree of satan – it was the tree of knowledgeR" So we disagree again. Why are you so stubborn. You agree the serpent is an opposing elohiym power, knows good and evil. How does the serpent know good and evil? It has to have sinned. Now please detail against this discussion with your logic. If you wish to present another "inspired sacred writing" saying the serpent was created to know good and evil, and the Father created the serpent that way, all well and good. Than the serpent is just doing it's job to tempt man to sin, but the serpent cannot sin because it was created that way to tempt man, even make a religious system to oppose God's religious system, again to tempt man. What you are presenting is an entirely different gospel to the Moses torah. And Scripture plainly says Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. So again your logical discussion must agree with the Moses torah, and the Moses torah only comes first, not the Book of Enoch. There was never any book of Enoch, how can I say this? because the Moses scroll comes first.There were oral teachings older than Moses, Enoch is well known orally, as was Job orally, but Moses was the first to WRITE down the torah in a written form, and this written form was PALEO-HEBREW. What Jeff Benner presents. We learn the serpent knew about good and evil, because it spoke about this, and thus is an elohiym power. That makes the serpent according to the ten commandments, an opposing elohiym power. How can I be certain? because only ONE elohiym power is allowed before the Father's face. How does a creation become an elohiym power? You assume God created the creature that way. OK Another assumption is the creature sinned. OK We have two possibilities. We also know the serpent did not know about sinning consequences because such sinning never happened before to different creatures under sin. So the discussions become how much did the serpent know about God's law, the ten comandments and much how law was written in heaven? Ge 3:1 ¶ Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. We get a clue of the serpent being "aram" above any creature. H6191 GhRM (Jews have lost this letter Gh) "The twisting head flows" H 6175 GhRFM "The twisting head secured flows" Ps 83:3 They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones. 4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance. Here is Psalm 83 the meaning of "ARaM" is the idea of be secretly twisting plots to overthrow something else. Many other verses speak of the opposite meaning, to be "prudent" or "wise". I do not get the idea that the serpent was created to be an elohiym power to tempt man to sin. I get the impression the serpent BECAME an opposing elohiym power from Sinning against God. Now you have to argue you discussion using the Moses torah only, not introduce some other writings. Otherwise there is no light of dawn in your presentation. D" The second tree was not the tree of evil – it was not the tree of satan – it was the tree of knowledgeR" That is your opinion. It serves you well. So you assume the serpent, an elohiym power, knowing good and evil, had this knowledge given to him from his creation? How does this gel with the command, no other elohiym powers before my face? D"Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. R" By this you are saying God creates "natural death" , natural decomposition" "snow" "rain" and "volcanoes". Where does torah say these things existed naturally on earth before Adam sinned? My view your verses came into action after Adam sinned, ie God creates RA after sin occurs, not before. I quote" The Garden of Eden would have been a climatic paradise that apparently needed no rain because it was watered by a mist coming up from the ground (Genesis 2:6). There would be no storms or harmful natural occurrences. Everything about God’s creation would have been perfect; after all, He had pronounced it “very good” at the end of day six (Genesis 1:31). What God says is ‘very good’ cannot have any flaws whatsoever. Therefore, the world in which Adam and Eve lived would have been the perfect temperature, the perfect humidity, without pests or diseases, and without anything that would detract from their enjoyment of knowing God in a perfect, undiluted way. Surely, this is what is meant by the word ‘paradise’. Read more: www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/what-was-life-like-in-the-garden-of-eden-before-sin/#ixzz7ZhhsOyK3We know rain never came until Noah's flood came. From this principle we can conclude RA came long after Adam sinned, thus RA is a fruit of sinning, not something inherent in matter or creation. Sadly, Genesis does not detail us much, but it does mention watering of the earth. D" If you bow and worship - Caesar – does this force Caesar to be in heaven waring with against God? If you bow and worship – the Pope does this force the Pope to be in heaven waring with against God?R" You are silly, the serpent was in heaven waring against God, remember? Re 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: The dragon gives power to Caesar, so worshipping Caesar is the same as worshipping the serpent, who originally warred against God in heaven as an opposing elohiym power. D" I have begged and begged you to give me one verse where your satan god disobey God or opposes GodR" I gave you eight already, have you not read them? Lu 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. (KJV) Who is saying this? Jesus saw the opposer fall from heaven. When did this happen? Re 12:9 he was cast out into the earth, And who did this? Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; Michael did. Who is Michael? One who is like elohiym. Are angels like elohiym, no. Michael is Jesus, the one speaking when He saw the opposer fall from heaven to earth like lightning. I gave you eight, here is one again (third time). D" Your belief in two gods and two kings is a pagan religionR" Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. If another elohiym power opposes the Father's face, how many elohiym powers do we now have ? Duh Are you saying this commandment did not exist when Sabbath commandment also existed? Or are you saying man was an elohiym power when Sabbath existed? Genesis 3 clearly says the serpent was an elohiym power, who knew good and evil, thus sinned to achieve this, and became the opposing elohiym power. Prove me wrong and start discussing the torah of Moses. D" Why won’t you explain your own Robert Method translation? Answer – because it is NONSENSER" rather than mock and make no serious discussion, how about you discuss my discussions and prove me wrong. I am learning that Moses torah is quite sufficient to detail who the serpent is and what he was there for.Now discuss your view, using the Moses torah only. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 21, 2022 16:48:10 GMT -5
D" The serpent said NOT - The only way the serpent lied is if the promise of eternal life is a lie R" The serpent didn't know about salvation offered to humans who have undergone mischief from a mischief maker? Then the serpent is the luckiest criminal on the planet – he guess correctlyD"You have NO scripture supporting your doctrine You must play your word games – and disagree with Jeff, scripture, and the dictionary R" The fact I can write logical thinking for you proves my logic is sound and reasonable. You play word chain games – A = B – and B= C – so A can mean something else so it fits your doctrine Where is your logic and discussion presented? You don't present any? I present scripture – why do you find it unsatisfactoryD" Knowledge – makes you intelligent – it does NOT make you a god R" Now who goes against Benner? you do? You are as arrogant as a bull – does it make you a cow? You play word chain games – A = B – and B= C – so A can mean something else so it fits your doctrineD"The second tree was not the tree of evil – it was not the tree of satan – it was the tree of knowledge R" So we disagree again. Why are you so stubborn. I present scripture – why do you find it unsatisfactoryGen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. You agree the serpent is an opposing elohiym power, knows good and evil. You play word chain games – A = B – and B= C – so A can mean something else so it fits your doctrineHow does the serpent know good and evil? How do you know he does? Another Robert assumptionYou want your satan to be LIKE A GOD – but you have no scripture to back up your man-made assumptions Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. So again your logical discussion must agree with the Moses torah, and the Moses torah only comes first, not the Book of Enoch. WHAT – I say the BEAST = (yester ra) There was never any book of Enoch, how can I say this? because the Moses scroll comes first. YET – Enoch is used 64 times to build the agl/NT by the very men that walked and talked with Jesus Christ both before and after id resurrectionGe 3:1 ¶ Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. We get a clue of the serpent being "aram" above any creature. Ps 83:3 They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones. 4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance. YET – you argue the serpent is ignorant and stipidD"The second tree was not the tree of evil – it was not the tree of satan – it was the tree of knowledge R" That is your opinion. It serves you well. I present scripture – why do you find it unsatisfactoryGen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. D"Why won’t you explain your own Robert Method translation? Answer – because it is NONSENSE R" rather than mock and make no serious discussion, how about you discuss my discussions and prove me wrong.AVOID – EVADE – DENY – and change the subjectD"Why won’t you explain your own Robert Method translation? Answer – because it is NONSENSEHeb 2:17 .... to make reconciliation for the sin-offerings of the people.Jesus Christ did not give His life as an atonement for the SACRIFICES OF THE PEOPLE FOR SIN Jesus Christ came to atone for thie SINSBig difference between the two ideas.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2022 17:01:55 GMT -5
D" Then the serpent is the luckiest criminal on the planet – he guess correctly R" Question: Did Adam and Eve die immediately when they sinned? Yes or no
Please answer... death is not an event per se, death is a process based on relationship...
Jeff Benner assumes the serpent said to Eve, you will not immediately die... Jeff assumes the woman made a mistake, cannot even touch the fruit.
Why is the woman talking to a talking snake?
Rob's view" Yes both Adam and Eve died immediately. Living is a process founded on relationship to God, on a subatomic level you agree with me, so yes the relationship to living was broken immediately the moment they sinned. HS shrank abut them making them naked, they became fearful, etc, etc they also experienced entropy the missing of God, and thus lead them to the intense death, the second death of non-existence, you also agree on this.
Sure death has events that can be labelled, but it is essentially founded on relationship to God".
D"I present scripture – why do you find it unsatisfactory R" You do not present scripture, AND discuss your view using that Scripture.
D" Knowledge – makes you intelligent – it does NOT make you a god D"You play word chain games – A = B – and B= C – so A can mean something else so it fits your doctrine R" You did not answer my question.
Jeff says elohiym is a power that knows good and evil.
Question: Does the serpent know good and evil?
Rob's view" Yes the serpent has to know good and evil, because he speaks about, you cannot speak of things you do not know. When the PNG first saw planes land on the big pella walking track, they spoke of birds flying with still wings and rolling on their legs. They touched the black things and had no words, PNG do not know wheels. They could not speak of planes because they did not know about them.
They spoke in their own words and experience.
"Na 2:4 The chariots shall rage in the streets, they shall justle one against another in the broad ways: they shall seem like torches, they shall run like the lightnings.
Here Naham speaks of cars, but cannot know cars, because he does not describe them in our terms, so uses the terms he knows.
The serpent says ye shall be like elohym knowing good and evil if you eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. One part is left out, the bit to disobey God and eat of the fruit.
Question: Does the serpent intentionally leave out the disobey God bit, but invites them to eat the fruit? Yes, why? Because the serpent itself had sinned, and has the advantage of sin, to be cunning, crafty and deceiving, something a sinless being cannot do. A sinless being cannot deceive or speak half truths or deceive with truth.
D"You play word chain games – A = B – and B= C – so A can mean something else so it fits your doctrine R Again to are not discussing, avoiding the issue
Question: Why could only the serpent speak to Eve from the tree he could only speak from. The tree has to a symbol of HIM. Do you agree with this idea?
Trees in Scripture are symbols of power.
You focus on the word knowledge. That is a description abut HIM, the symbol of the tree.
DO you agree with this idea.
The serpent has knowledge.
DO you agree with this idea.
The serpent knows good and evil
DO you agree with this idea.
Therefore the serpent is an elohiym power
DO you agree with this idea.
THus an opposing elohym power
DO you agree with this idea.
This is NOT a world game, its a series of logical steps in cognitive thinking.
Answer the questions, with your discussions. Robert's method you mock.
Rob's view" Yes, trees are symbols of beings with power.
Jg 9:14 Then said all the trees unto the bramble, Come thou, and reign over us.
There are others, one verse should suffice for now.
"Knowledge of good and bad" tells us how the tree reigns over us if we should eat of the tree's powers.
D"How do you know he does? Another Robert assumption R" So if the serpent has no knowledge The serpent does not know good and evil The serpent has never sinned Which path are you taking Dave?
Isa 8:20 To the Moses Torah and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Oral torah existed yes, teachings of Enoch
But no book ever existed, Moses torah is the first to be written down.
Hence the statement/
Isa 8:20 To the Moses Torah and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
DO you agree with this idea?
D" YET – Enoch is used 64 times to build the agl/NT by the very men that walked and talked with Jesus Christ both before and after id resurrection R" oral teachings
I said Moses torah is the first scroll written down.
DO you agree with this idea?
D" YET – you argue the serpent is ignorant and stipid R" I didn't say this....stop assuming
The context says the aram is a person with cunning, deception and shrewd dealings. DO you agree with this idea?
Rob's view" Where does this aram nature come from? You argue the Father created aram. I say the aram nature came from dealings with sin.
Look at what happens when people sin ? They can become deceiving, shrewd, and crafty.
A sinless person can only edify, no deceive. A sinless person cannot deceive with the truth.
D"I present scripture – why do you find it unsatisfactory Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. R" The opposer has no name Dave. Duh The true elohiym power has no name either Dave. Duh
Just what do you call them? Scripture calls one the tree of living. Scripture calls the other the tree of knowledge of tov and ra.
The trees are symbols of elohiym powers.
DO you agree with this idea?
You cannot agree because the SHAD (beast, satanas, serpent, devil, archon) is created by the Father as a SHAD to tempt man to follow a different religion than the Father's one.
This is all OK to you. Why on earth would the Father create an opposing religion just to keep humans away from the true religion of the Father?
It does not fit Scripture.
First the ten commandments says, Have no other opposing elohiym powers before my face.
Therefore there has to exist other false elohiym powers before God.
DO you agree with this idea?
Try to answer my questions Dave, with discussion.
If the command, no false elohiym powers before me, exists, than the Father would not create such a power.
It has to have risen by itself, to oppose the Father.
DO you agree with this idea?
How does such a false power arise? By sin
by rebellion. By using free will to disobey God. DO you agree with this idea?
There is no other way.
D"AVOID – EVADE – DENY – and change the subject D"Why won’t you explain your own Robert Method translation? Answer – because it is NONSENSE R" I am not changing subject, or avoiding this.
D"Heb 2:17 .
R" You are changing subject.
This thread is called "can you lose your salvation"
To answer this question one has to ask, is there another opposing elohiym power in existence?
You are suggesting the Father created a system of SHAD, to tempt man to set up elohiym powers against him.
That does not fit the ten commandment law.
Have no other elohiym powers before me, was written on the day Sabbath existed, long before man sinned. So who is this other elohiym power existing on the day Sabbath existed?
The other commands stem from this religion of the opposing elohym power.
In Hebrew one can desire, in command 10 one cannot do the opposite, covet
In Hebrew one speaks well, in command 9 one cannot speak falsely
In Hebrew all things are shared as stewards, in command 8 one can be selfish, the opposing idea.
In Hebrew relationships are respected, in command 7 one can break relationships freely, the opposing idea.
In Hebrew parents are respected (the parents of the true elohiym as well as other creatures who parent) but the false elohiym power poses the religion to disrespect the parents of power.
So you see the opposing elohiym power is all the ten commandments are about, so must have existed long before man existed.
DO you agree with this idea?
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 23, 2022 6:05:40 GMT -5
D" Then the serpent is the luckiest criminal on the planet – he guess correctly R" Question: Did Adam and Eve die immediately when they sinned? Yes or no NO - Gen 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
Question: Does the serpent know good and evil? NO – only (yester ra)
"Na 2:4 The chariots shall rage in the streets, they shall justle one against another in the broad ways: Question: Why could only the serpent speak to Eve from the tree he could only speak from. The tree has to a symbol of HIM. Do you agree with this idea? NONESENSE – man-made doctrine give me your scripture that the serpent spoke from the tree of knowledge between good and evil
You focus on the word knowledge. That is a description abut HIM, the symbol of the tree. DO you agree with this idea. NO – the Tree of Knowledge between good and evil – is not a satan The Tree of knowledge between good and evil was just a tree
The serpent has knowledge. DO you agree with this idea. More intelligent than all the beast - correct
The serpent knows good and evil DO you agree with this idea. Have no idea what the serpent knows – except he promoted WORLD
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat,
the tree was good for food – survival – lust – for world it was pleasant to the eyes, - survival – lust/desire – for world to be desired to make one wise – survival – lust/desire – for world
Therefore the serpent is an elohiym power DO you agree with this idea. YES – the serpent was acting like a satan – a promoter of world YES – Caesar was acting like a satan/devil demanding worship YES – Emperor Ito was acting like a satan/ devil demanding worship YES – Ball was acting like a satan/ devil demanding worship All of them FALSE GODS of this WORLD
THus an opposing elohym power DO you agree with this idea. YES – the Beast opposes man
You cannot agree because the SHAD (beast, satanas, serpent, devil, archon) is created by the Father as a SHAD to tempt man to follow a different religion than the Father's one. This is all OK to you. Why on earth would the Father create an opposing religion just to keep humans away from the true religion of the Father? It does not fit Scripture. FACT – GOD TEST HIS PEOPLE FACT – GOD DOES NOT DO THE TESTING DIRECTLY – he has a staff for that
First the ten commandments says, Have no other opposing elohiym powers before my face. YEP – choose to oby God and His commandment or embrace WORLD
Therefore there has to exist other false elohiym powers before God. DO you agree with this idea? Correct – physical creation is filled with false elohiym powers – they are the BEAST of revelation They are things of physical creation None of them stand against GOD face to face in heaven
Your teaching of two gods and two kings - has nothing to do with monotheism
How does such a false power arise? Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Christ = the image of God – and the archon were Made by God for God There is no other way.
D"AVOID – EVADE – DENY – and change the subject D"Why won’t you explain your own Robert Method translation? D"Heb 2:17 . R" You are changing subject. Do not post your Robert Method translations if you cannot defend your own doctrine
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2022 16:01:01 GMT -5
Greetings Dave Rp" Question: Did Adam and Eve die immediately when they sinned? Yes or no D" NO R" you do NOT discuss my discussion, can't you read or write a discussion, obviously you can't?
1) Please answer... death is not an event per se, death is a process based on relationship... You agree with me living comes from GOD at a subatomic level, therefore comes to us because of relationship.
Do you agree? Please write discussions.
2) The relationship to living was broken immediately the moment they sinned. HS shrank abut them making them naked, they became fearful, etc, Do you agree? Please write discussions.
3) This makes death a process, not a single event, but more likely a series of single events. The first death is termed sleep, but God is still desires a relationship with you, so records and retains all memories about you.
The second death is a more intense death, where the relationship with God ends permanently and you cease to exist forever. What evidence is there that death is a series of events, and thus a process? a) When you die a mortal death of sleep, the skin, fingernails continue to be alive for many weeks. b) When a creature sins, they should experience the second death immediately, for the law states the penalties of missing God's powers like this. The reason why we do not break completely away from God is because God is kind, and gracious , and thus allows the relationship (though severed) to continue because God wants you to repent, or choose salvation. For example the serpent is a sinning angel, and has not died yet, because God keeps him alive for a purpose, even though the function of repentance is over for this opposing creature.
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Rp" Question: Does the serpent know good and evil? D" NO – only (yester ra) R" Your answer makes no sense, and your discussion is missing. How is a person supposed to understand your view and logical reasoning if you do not write a discussion?
All science papers have discussion's, but Dave can't be serious enough to write a discussion about why his view is that way? Spend time with your own thinking and ask yourself why do I think the way I do?
Instead you seem to have not done any thinking, you just have a view you cannot defend.
If the opposer is alive, can talk, walk fly, we assume eat, these things are functional, therefore the serpent who is an opposer of GOD knows good things from God. Duh
You make the claim the opposer only opposes man.
When the ten commandments were around during the first Sabbath, where was the opposer and who was the opposer opposing? Not man, man barely existed. There fore the opposer is opposing God.
Do you agree? Please write discussions.
A creature who knows good and evil is defined to be an elohiym power. Do you agree? Please write discussions.
D"NO – the Tree of Knowledge between good and evil – is not a satan The Tree of knowledge between good and evil was just a tree R" Again you have trouble reading English words.
I said the tree is about HIM. I said the tree is a symbol of HIM.
You have to disagree don't you, than ask prove to me where the opposer could only talk from his tree.
Hmm? I agree, this details of this is missing? Jg 9:14 Then said all the trees unto the bramble, Come thou, and reign over us.
Here is a verse which suggests to me a tree can speak, and represents a ruling power. Thus trees are symbols of ruling powers. Why can't you add logic from one line upon line to another line upon line.
The tree is a symbol of the speaking power (not just the tree alone) Do you agree? Please write discussions.
D"More intelligent than all the beast - correct R" Aram does not mean more intelligent. It means the "twisting head,..." what makes the head twisting? Sinning does. I quote a post you did not discuss"
Where does this aram nature come from? You argue the Father created aram. I say the aram nature came from dealings with sin. Look at what happens when people sin ? They can become deceiving, shrewd, and crafty. A sinless person can only edify, no deceive. A sinless person cannot deceive with the truth Do you agree "aram" is a character development that comes from sinning?
Gen 3:1 does not say God made the creature "aram" from its creation. It became "Aram".
The only creature on earth doing "aram", ie sinning. Do you agree? Please write discussions.
D"Have no idea what the serpent knows – except he promoted WORLD R" My question did not ask how much the serpent knows, but whether he knows both good and evil.
Again no discussion and you did not answer my question.
Please try again.
The serpent has a neck, can walk, talk and speak. These things are functional. The serpent can deceive, and Jesus spoke of the devil as a murderer and a liar, so does evil dysfunctional things too.
Hence this makes the serpent an elohiym power.
Do you agree? Please write discussions.
The serpent does not promote the world ONLY. You agree already the serpent promotes an opposing religious system and you agree with me on this idea.
The ten commandments reflects both religions, beginning with the opposer's claim,
I am an opposing elohiym power before the Father's face.
1) I am an elohiym power (you do not need God) 2) I can be a covering (your idea of the world, yes this rule is here) 3) I am my own words (we empower ourselves) 4) I am my own rest, and I am selfish 5) I do not need parents ( hence your idea of mono...) 6) I like to abuse relationships for fun 7) I like to kill for fun 8) I like to steal for fun 9) I like to deceive for fun 10) I covet whatever I like for fun
The opposing religion is based on emotions, not cognitive decisions of love.
The ten commandment speaks entirely of the opposing religion and its rules, as well if written positively about God's religion which is the opposite in nature, based on love.
Religion is defined as the rules you live by. (you agree with this idea)
The serpent has made his own living and promotes his own religion to humans.
D"YES – the serpent was acting like a satan – a promoter of world R" Why do you disagree and than agree? Can't you be consistent?
An opposing elohiym power has to be opposing the Father's religion.
But you disagree.
You mention D" the tree was good for food – survival – lust – for world R" What is the Hebrew word for this ?
chamad "meaning to desire" is the same word in Ten commandments and translated in its opposite meaning to covet, thou shalt not covet.
Where does this opposite meaning come from? From the opposer.
Not from God. Not even from the Hebrew.
But from reading the Hebrew in context, implying the opposite meaning.
The opposer is opposing GOD and everything about GOD, including promoting an entirely opposing ten commandment rules of living, an opposing religion.
Do you agree? Please write discussions.
RP " The serpent is an opposing elohym power DO you agree with this idea? D" YES – the Beast opposes man R" Your answer is not even English gammar, you should have written
"No, the beast does not oppose God, the beast just opposes man, because God created the beast that way."
Instead you mix both yes and no in the one reply. This is not how you write English, especially double negatives. It's not a hot day is it? How many of us cannot fathom this question?
Firstly where was the man around when the opposer existed? Man wasn't around than.
Secondly where was the world the opposer was presenting as a religion? No world existed than either, the serpent was kicked on a rock cold and dark, called earth, long before man even existed. So why was the opposer kicked out of heaven?
RP" Therefore there has to exist other false elohiym powers before God. DO you agree with this idea? D" Correct – physical creation is filled with false elohiym powers – they are the BEAST of revelation They are things of physical creation None of them stand against GOD face to face in heaven R" so now Dave has lots of opposing entities naturally opposing the Father as false elohiym powers, they are the physical creation. So when the Father creates something of matter, natural opposing elohiym powers come from? Do you have a Moses torah text for this idea Dave?
This implies matter, the physical stuff the Father makes creation from comes inherently with opposing elohiym powers? DO you even understand what you saying?
So this idea of yours in not from Moses is it, but from Gnostic?
The idea that matter rises from matter and immediately becomes arrogant and from the aborted fetus rising the elohiym powers..... is this an elohym power? No
1) It cannot choose 2) It does not choose good or evil, its only what it was created to be 3) an elohiym power has to have free will to choose good or choose bad.
Therefore Dave has completely shut down Moses teachings entirely.
No wonder you speak of the serpent as you do. You cannot have a serpent with free will, that would be against Gnostic teachings. Explain to me how "physical creation is filled with false elohiym powers " ?
Not possible, unless God creates the creatures with also free will.
A power has to choose good and evil to know good and evil to become an elohiym power that opposes the true elohiym power in heaven.
Not possible for physical matter to rise from itself as an elohiym power, unless it rises as a creature with free will.
But Dave makes man only with free will. Explain than why the ten commandments speak of an opposing elohiym power than, some power that chooses to disobey the Father? Existed when Sabbath existed, long before man existed. Therefore free will existed long before man existed.
Please discuss your view.
RP" How does such a false power arise? D" Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, R" That is not how elohiym powers are made.
Wrong.
You are saying the Father made physical matter into elohiym powers.
No not possible. Wrong.
Explain than why the ten commandments speak of an opposing elohiym power than, some power that chooses to disobey the Father? Existed when Sabbath existed, long before man existed. Therefore free will existed long before man existed. Please discuss your view.
The power has to have free will otherwise cannot be an elohiym power knowing good and evil. The only answer in Scripture, the verse you ignore
"the cherub sinned" so God kicked him out of heaven onto the earth. The cherub chose to know good and evil.
D"and the archon were Made by God for God There is no other way. R" NO
God cannot make an elohiym power.
What a stupid Gnostic religion you follow.
Jeff Benner explains elohiym as a creature that knows both good and evil, hence has free will to choose and develop that choice into an elohiym power.
But Dave suggests physical matter can arise as a elohiym power by itself.
No not without free will, it cannot.
Question" How does such a false power arise?
Dave's answer: Col 1:15 Col 1:16 It was created that way to be an elohiym power.
Rob's reply. No wrong. garbage. You cannot create evil or yester ra in a creature from it's creation.
That does a few subtle things about Dave's idea.
1) Rob write Dave's view for him "A creature can become elohiym power with yester ra already included in it from the time of its fetus development. Thus the serpent was already born as an elohiym power, did not BECOME and elohiym power.
Rob replies" This idea is wrong.
It's the same idea as saying humans are born sinning.
No , humans are born becoming sinners. The free will to choose sinning has to be always there. The Jewish idea of yester ra, is developed within us from the sinning we do.
Yes the propensity of yester ra as a gene is inside of us, but cannot be awakened unless our minds choose to awaken the yester ra propesity for doing evil.
You cannot create a creature with yester ra without also creating free will.
This is the absurd notion of Gnostic views.
Dave follows Gnostic religion, which states God created physical matter which can arise by itself into elohiym powers, without the function of free will. Thus we can have archons doing bad things but they cannot sin because they have no free will, they simply test man who alone has free will. In a similar fashion the angels also have embedded function to praise, they also cannot do bad things because they also have no free will. Dave says only man has free will. So out of all the creatures of all the heavens and all the worlds, only one creature can truly love and be loved, all the 99.999% of other creatures are robotic, and do not love nor can be loved? What a false notion this is.
Why every pet owned knows their pet loves them and responds to their owner's love. Even a African parrot showed science love
and thus Alex the bird asked it's owner,
"will I see you in the morning"?
This is the last thing it said before it died? Is this a love question or some robot?
If God is love than all creatures have the ability to love, and praise and talk and seek God. And God talks back to them in love as well. Angels have free will, cows have free will and talk to God about the love they experience. The only thing is the cow who experiences ra cannot choose to be saved from the ra that causes it do die, only humans can, because Jesus died to save humans. In my view all creation is filled with good, and any ra only comes created by God because of a SIN problem God is dealing with.
The serpent is a free will creature, chooses to oppose God's religion because it wishes to promote sinning as a different religion to God's religion or sinless living.
That is where the term aram comes from, the twisting head.
What makes the head twisting? Good and bad, mixed together to deceive. Is there a Scripture for this idea of Aram? yes
Pr 5:22 His own iniquities shall take the wicked himself, and he shall be holden with the cords of his sins.
Also
Pr 15:5 ¶ A fool despiseth his father's instruction: but he that regardeth reproof is prudent.
The proverb is written as positive contrast negative.
A fool hates the father's rules and does "aram" The wise loves the Father's rules and does not do "Aram" the opposite of "Aram" is to be "prudent" or "wise".
Therefore "Aram" the twisting head, comes from sinning, twisting good with bad.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 24, 2022 2:49:17 GMT -5
Greetings Dave Rp" Question: Did Adam and Eve die immediately when they sinned? Yes or no D" NO R" you do NOT discuss my discussion, can't you read or write a discussion, obviously you can't?
Gen 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
My discussion – Adam did not die immediately – he lived 930 years My discussion – man was created mortal – as we all physical creation - Once the Tree of Life was withheld – Entropy took its natural course My discussion – once the antidote for death was withheld – Entropy took its natural course My discussion - Adam did not die immediately – he lived 930 years without the Tree of Life before Entropy took its natural course and Adam died a mortal death
1) Please answer... death is not an event per se, death is a process based on relationship... You agree with me living comes from GOD at a subatomic level, therefore comes to us because of relationship. Do you agree? Please write discussions. My discussion – My discussion – the metaphor does not replace scripture My discussion – you want to turn scripture into some religious mystery
The second death is a more intense death, where the relationship with God ends permanently and you cease to exist forever. Correct – the first death – mortal death – is not permanent – BECAUSE LIFE LIVES – the spirit return to God from which it came - Correct – the second death is death of spirit ----------------------
Rp" Question: Does the serpent know good and evil? D" NO – only (yester ra) R" Your answer makes no sense, and your discussion is missing. How is a person supposed to understand your view and logical reasoning if you do not write a discussion? My discussion – The Beast = the very definition of (yester ra) - self – selfish – self-centered My discussion – the BEAST is a beast – made with some matter and matter / world is all it thinks about My discussion – The BEAST has no (yester tov) Therefore the Beast – never desires to return to God – never desires to witness for God – never the desire to praise God Therefore the BEAST = a beast like all the other dumb animals of creation – they just do what they do to satisfy – wants / desire / greed / lust – self-preservation and the survival of the species
A creature who knows good and evil is defined to be an elohiym power. Do you agree? Please write discussions. NO – My discussion = Man knows – does this make man a god in heaven opposing the creator?
D"NO – the Tree of Knowledge between good and evil – is not a satan The Tree of knowledge between good and evil was just a tree R" Again you have trouble reading English words.
I said the tree is about HIM. I said the tree is a symbol of HIM.
Sorry Robert – I have no HIM as a god of evil The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil = is a symbol of KNOWLEDGE / UNDERSTSANDING
D"Have no idea what the serpent knows – except he promoted WORLD R" My question did not ask how much the serpent knows, but whether he knows both good and evil. Again no discussion and you did not answer my question. Please try again. My discussion – The Beast is only (yester ra) that is all he understands
D" the tree was good for food – survival – lust – for world R" What is the Hebrew word for this ? MY discussion = It is the commandment by God upon all biological creatures – self-preservation and survival of the species – it is explained with Judaism as (yester ra) - “And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply” Robert teaches that God’s commandment to biology is be ‘aven’ – wicked and unrighteous
The opposer is opposing GOD and everything about GOD, including promoting an entirely opposing ten commandment rules of living, an opposing religion. Do you agree? Please write discussions. MY discussion – the teaching that anyone or anything can oppose God is an abomination My discussion – The Admission that you have two gods and two kings is pagan blasphemy My discussion – the opposing religion is anything except Messianic Judaism My discussion – the opposing religion is always just WORLD – this is all there is MY discussion – all opposing religions all promote WORLD or Created beings of this WORLD My discussion – Baal, Molech, Dogon are created beings of this world – they are NOT gods in heaven facing off against the Creator My discussion – Allah and Islam are created things of the world = just a created being of this world My discussion – Confusion – was just a man My discussion – Siddhartha – was just a man My discussion – Pharaoh, Caesar, the Emperor, the Pope – are just men
RP " The serpent is an opposing elohym power DO you agree with this idea? D" YES – the Beast opposes man R" Your answer is not even English gammar, you should have written
"No, the beast does not oppose God, the beast just opposes man, because God created the beast that way." Correct – the Beast is a created creature of this WORLD – the Beast’s Kingdom is this WORLD – the domaine of the BEAST is this WORLD
Correct – made by Him for Him
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
POINT #1 – Christ = the IMAGE OF GOD – Christ = the Creator POINT #2 – the principalities (archon) were made by Him for Him
Dave's answer: Col 1:15 Col 1:16 It was created that way to be an elohiym power. Rob's reply. No wrong. garbage. You cannot create evil or yester ra in a creature from it's creation.
Dave accepts scripture – Dave does not have to deny any scripture Why do you so boldly argue against the agl/NT
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. -----------------------------
RP" Therefore there has to exist other false elohiym powers before God. DO you agree with this idea? D" Correct – physical creation is filled with false elohiym powers – they are the BEAST of Revelation They are things of physical creation None of them stand against GOD face to face in heaven R" so now Dave has lots of opposing entities naturally opposing the Father as false elohiym powers, they are the physical creation. Why must you misrepresent me – still – after 11 million request to stop Dave has lots (lots and lots) of opposing entities naturally opposing the Father MAN as false elohiym powers, they are the physical creation.
This implies matter, the physical stuff the Father makes creation from comes inherently with opposing elohiym powers? DO you even understand what you saying? Why must you misrepresent me – still – after 11 million request to stop This implies matter, the physical stuff the Father makes creation from comes inherently with ENTROPY ------------------
D"and the archon were Made by God for God There is no other way. R" NO - God cannot make an elohiym power. Then who created Baal – Molech – Dogon – Chermush – Caesar THERE IS NO OTHER CREATOR!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2022 5:51:13 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
I am getting the impression the Father in your view can creature robotic creatures with inherent yester ra in them, and that is all they do, invent the extreme sorts of ra and utmost evil imaginable. Such a creature in your view does not know good or evil , thus cannot be a elohiym power or a false elohiym power. Perhaps all this creature could do is influence man to set up false elohiym powers based on man made religions.
You even see the tree as a symbol of knowledge only, and never meant to represent an opposing elohiym power, even though God speaks of the sinning events of man, that they have become like us, knowing good and evil. This does not in your view, apply to the creature who is only testing man's free will. This creature is not with free will, nor does it sin or even morally do any wrong.
So is this a good summary of your view, so far ?
If the Father is capable of making creatures with total yester ra (no yester tov), why would the Father do this, if the Father is a god of love?
Such a creature would murder, hate, kill, maim, abuse, sexually abuse, torture and destroy any tov creature, and totally run havoc to any free will creature, a destroying the dinosaur creatures like the movies show in Juassic Park. Man would be totally destroyed by such creatures.
This principle (in your view), makes the Father totally evil, wicked and capable of the things he can creates in such creatures? I find it hard to write even, that you support a Father like this, who is able to creature a serial murder and sexual rapist, torture machine robotic creature like this. Such creatures would be like the movie Matrix, the metal robotic machines that wipe out humans. So your picture of archons is like these metal machines in Matrix?
How is this supposed to be a character trait of the Father of love?
Why do you have robotic creatures in the first place?
This is not an creature of love either? It would be very boring being among such robotic praise (ie angels ) and such cruel evil machines (ie archons).
Dave your theories are truly weird, and I cannot understand how you fathom them.
You also say the physical matter comes with problems only for man, never a problem for God. OK
So in the ten commandments explain the origin of the other elohiym powers that come to oppose the Father's face? Who are there and where do they come from? What such creatures have free will?
Your answer cannot include man made elohiym powers, because the ten commandments writes about the elohiym powers when Sabbath was around, and man was barely around at that time, certainly not doing anything wrong to become a false elohiym power. So who are these false elohiym powers?
They cannot be embedded in physical matter either, because such creatures have to have free will, so they can sin, and disobey God, thus oppose him.
I am getting the impression you cannot answer these questions, hence your Gnostic religion has no opposing elohiym powers. You seem to think the ten commandments was written only for man. Did God forsee man becoming an opposing elohiym power and thus wrote commandments for a future application?
There are many verses that I have written already that negate deeply into your Gnostic view.
If the creatures are just robotic yester ra machines testing free will in humans, than why does Jesus oppose these machines and want to remove them, and their kingdom, and the prince, and eventually destroy them in the lake of fire?
Nothing like that happens to the lions and the snakes, both capable of killing humans.
How can a yester ra machine become termed a prince by Jesus? Does not this imply free will? Surely a machine would not declare this, unless the Father intentionally programmed the machine to naturally be a ruler over man too? Now we enter in a programmer designing sinning in the first place? I always thought sinning is a cognitive choice of free will to disobey God, hence a sinner is always by definition opposing God. On earth does not matter, sinning is opposing God.
I have never heard of God creating totally sinning machines, but this is not a moral sin, because they cannot help do what they are programmed to do. Than man could blame God for the machines beguiling them, is that fair to God, to be blamed for programming yester ra machines on earth? There is no hint God accepted the blame game in Gen 3.
I would appreciate it if you could try and answer these questions.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 24, 2022 10:25:50 GMT -5
I am getting the impression the Father in your view can creature robotic creatures with inherent yester ra in them, and that is all they do, ABSOLUTELY CORRECTYour robot creature with (yester ra) = all biology All biology was given the command by God to – “go forth be fruitful and multiply” This is the instinctive desire for self-preservation and the desire to reproduce
invent the extreme sorts of ra and utmost evil imaginable. Why does Ellen White teach that the commandment to biology – to go forth be fruitful and multiply I ‘aven’ – wickedness and unrighteousSuch a creature in your view does not know good or evil , thus cannot be a elohiym power or a false elohiym power. CORRECT – there is no way a created creature is equal in any shape from or fashion with the CreatorPerhaps all this creature could do is influence man to set up false elohiym powers based on man made religions. CORRECT – man-made religions based on false gods of this WORLDYou even see the tree as a symbol of knowledge only, and never meant to represent an opposing elohiym power, even though God speaks of the sinning events of man, that they have become like us, knowing good and evil. This does not in your view, apply to the creature who is only testing man's free will. This creature is not with free will, nor does it sin or even morally do any wrong. So is this a good summary of your view, so far ? A lion kills to feed his pride – why do you consider the lion to be a sinner I do not consider the lion to be a sinner – just driven by (yester ra) – instinctive self-preservation and the survival of the speciesIf the Father is capable of making creatures with total yester ra (no yester tov), why would the Father do this, if the Father is a god of love? Because the Creator gave them the commandment to go forth be fruitful and multiply God declared this was all GOOD – Gen 1:31Ellen White has taught you it is all ‘aven’Such a creature would murder, hate, kill, maim, abuse, sexually abuse, torture and destroy any tov creature, and totally run havoc to any free will creature, a destroying the dinosaur creatures like the movies show in Juassic Park. Man would be totally destroyed by such creatures. YES – AGREED – ABSOLUTELYGen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. Man would be totally destroyed by such creatures.Correct- During the First Age - the choshek was replace by the Light of the world requiring a Contest reset - with new and different parameters During the Second Age - the bane elohiym and Nephilm were seperated from man requiring a Contest reset - with new and different parameters During th Age of Abraham - the religion of YWHY was fulfilled requiring a Contest reset - with new and different parameters = Jesus Christ and the age of the gentile This principle (in your view), makes the Father totally evil, wicked and capable of the things he can creates in such creatures? I do not teach that the Creator is evil or aven – why do youGen 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply I do not teach that the commandment to all biology is ‘aven' - why do youGen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. I do not teach that the commandment to man is ‘aven’Why do you have robotic creatures in the first place? You call them robots – I call them animals with the commandment to go forth be fruitful and multiplySo in the ten commandments explain the origin of the other elohiym powers that come to oppose the Father's face? Who are there and where do they come from? What such creatures have free will? Anything that takes your attention away for your commission (Jer 1:5) Today – this other elohiym power is evolution and the idea that WORLD is all there is Today – the other elohiym power = atheism – there is no God only WORLD Today – there is a different elohiym powers (many of them) posing as the Creator ALL of them = created physical things of physical creation – all of them = WORLD Today – even your satan worship – your satan is a created being – a thing of the world – NOT the Creator
If the creatures are just robotic yester ra machines testing free will in humans, than why does Jesus oppose these machines and want to remove them, and their kingdom, and the prince, and eventually destroy them in the lake of fire? Because all of this WORLD will pass away - DUHHow can a yester ra machine become termed a prince by Jesus? Because this physical WORLD is the kingdom of the archon – the domain of the archon And they are the most ‘subtel’ biological creatures within itREMEMBER THE QUESTION?Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man chataah entered into the world, ( Adam sinned and wrought sin-offering into the world, I become a sinner, but am not born sinning, though I am born into the world with sin-offering) Big difference between the two ideas. Heb 2:17 .... to make reconciliation for the sin-offerings of the people. Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without "sin-offering". We have to affirm is the word hamartia chata or chataah? Rom 5:12 because of one man’s SACRIFICE FOR SIN – sin and death entered the world Heb 2:17 The High Priest must make an atonement – for the peoples SACRIFICES FOR SIN Heb 4:15 Jesus Christ is (G5565 – χωρίς - at a space, that is, separately or apart from (often as preposition): - beside, by itself, without.) a Sin Offering Why won’t you explain your own Robert Method translation?Answer – because it is NONSENSE Changing the subject - avoid answering the question - does not make you correct It only makes you unwilling to defend your own teaching
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