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Post by Dave on Feb 6, 2020 0:14:27 GMT -5
Can you lose your salvation
(Wiki) - Gnosticism (from Ancient Greek: γνωστικός gnōstikós, Koine Greek: [ɡˠno̞s.tiˈkos], "having knowledge") is a collection of ancient religious ideas and systems which originated in the first century AD among early Christian and Jewish sects.[1] These various groups, labeled "gnostics" by their opponents, emphasised personal spiritual knowledge (gnosis) over orthodox teachings, traditions, and ecclesiastical authority. They considered the principal element of salvation to be direct knowledge of the supreme divinity, experienced as intuitive or esoteric insight.
Today – we would call them Pentecostal – personal walk – communion – guidance from above / within Gnostics say – follow Christ NOT church
(Wiki) - Valentinus (also spelled Valentinius; c. AD 100 – c. 160) was the best known and, for a time, most successful early Christian gnostic theologian. He founded his school in Rome. According to Tertullian, Valentinus was a candidate for bishop of Rome but started his own group when another was chosen
Valentinus produced a variety of writings, but only fragments survive, largely those embedded in refuted quotations in the works of his opponents, not enough to reconstruct his system except in broad outline.[2] His doctrine is known to us only in the developed and modified form given to it by his disciples.[2] He taught that there were three kinds of people, the spiritual, psychical, and material; and that only those of a spiritual nature received the gnosis (knowledge) that allowed them to return to the divine Pleroma, while those of a psychic nature (ordinary Christians) would attain a lesser or uncertain form of salvation, and that those of a material nature were doomed to perish.[2][3][4]
Three types of Gnostic Christians Spiritual – Baptized by the HS – in communion – guided – called – (therefore gnosis) Psychical – academic believers – take on faith believers – intellectual believers – churchians Material – worship creation (material / physical) over the Creator
Can you lose your salvation - or once saved always saved The answer is NO you cannot lose your salvation – unless you deny Him before another man
The Spiritual Christian – gnosis – once you have felt the HS wash over you – you know – you will never forget. Richard’s mother-in-law saw something – a UFO – she gnosis what she saw Dillon posted a video of 300 school children and teachers that saw a UFO in Australia – even 50 years later – those students gnosis what they saw
If you gnosis – you cannot forget
Psychical Christians – believe – hope it to be true – think it to be true As long as they remain in the faith – continue believing – they will never lose their salvation
Material Christian – don’t believe - don’t care
Can you lose your salvation If you are a Spiritual Christian that gnosis – you cannot forget If you are a Psychical Christian that is just a believer – then persevere in that belief no matter what comes
If you do not persevere – they just how strong was your belief – weak belief = no belief You never believed it as an unchanging fact – but as something you hope to be true You never gnosis it as fact – but believers have a reservation of doubt
What does all this mean – Proportional Punishment? We all pay proportionally to our sin – if you are purified you are saved If you are a non-believer – you are judge proportionally to your works (which include the revelation of a Creator) If you are a believer – Jewish Torah law – or Christian – you know better – therefore are held to a higher standard – we are forgive for sins as we ask – be we sin every day – therefore we need to ask daily - continually in prayer – keeping steadfast in the faith – persevering – this is communion – this is walking in the spirit
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2022 17:02:35 GMT -5
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.(KJV) Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (KJV) Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. Ro 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. ( God did not lose any) Ro 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. ---------------------------------------- 1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures. Must stay in the faith to be saved. Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; (KJV) If you depart from the faith you are damned. Perserve in the faith, not perserve in beig holy. If you once believed and believe something else, you won't saved. 2Ti 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
Heb 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. (KJV) If you are justified, you live step at a time by faith. A process for those justified. Not one door you open and get into to, but a way of life,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. You get one shot coming to Jesus, all sins removed, past and future. You out sin covering, cannot get back again.... Only get saved once. Depart you are damned forever. Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. Hold on to Jesus Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
Nice video,
Well said.
We must continue practicing the good fight of faith, he says. Otherwise we lose our salvation.
Once we gnosis we know and never forget? Hmm? I have met many who have had miracles, seen miracles and had visions from God in their dreams. Yet they forget to live up to these revelations of GOD.
Why ? Because most of us do not understand what faith is and how you grow in the faith of Jesus.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 1, 2022 22:37:17 GMT -5
We must continue practicing the good fight of faith, he says. Otherwise we lose our salvation.Correction Can you lose your salvation - or once saved always saved The answer is NO you cannot lose your salvation – unless you deny Him before another man The Spiritual Christian – gnosis – once you have felt the HS wash over you – you know – you will never forget. Richard’s mother-in-law saw something – a UFO – she gnosis what she saw Dillon posted a video of 300 school children and teachers that saw a UFO in Australia – even 50 years later – those students gnosis what they saw If you gnosis – you cannot forget Psychical Christians – believe – hope it to be true – think it to be true As long as they remain in the faith – continue believing – they will never lose their salvation Material Christian – don’t believe - don’t care Can you lose your salvation If you are a Spiritual Christian that gnosis – you cannot forget If you are a Psychical Christian that is just a believer – then persevere in that belief no matter what comes If you do not persevere – they just how strong was your belief – weak belief = no belief You never believed it as an unchanging fact – but as something you hope to be true You never gnosis it as fact – but believers have a reservation of doubt
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Post by Dave on Jul 2, 2022 10:44:45 GMT -5
Once we gnosis we know and never forget? Hmm? I have met many who have had miracles, seen miracles and had visions from God in their dreams. Yet they forget to live up to these revelations of GOD.Proof it was all pretense – proof it was just man made religion Proof you are only speaking about a belief in an ideologyTell me of the people you know that forgot that FIRE BURNS Tell me of the people you know that forgot to breath Gnosis = Fact Gnosis = RealityJohn 10:27-30 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and my Father are one. John 3:16 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. The Promise is absolute – belief is all that is requiredHowever2 Peter 2:20-22 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. Proportional Punishment until purified2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and at home with the Lord. Robert preaches we cannot be absent from the body – there is only body – man has no spirit apart from the body Robert does not preach the New Testament Gospel – he preaches Ellen White-ism2Co 5:9 So whether at home or absent, we make it our aim to be pleasing to Him. 2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, so that each one may receive what is due for the things he did while in the body—whether good or bad. Robert denies that all believers we must all answer for our deeds, works, and fruit Robert does not preach the New Testament Gospel – he preaches Ellen White-ism2 Timothy 4:3-4 3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. Which one of us maintains a Jewish Theology + a Jewish demonology + the Messiah? Which one of us recognize the truth of Rom 1:19 + Psa 19:2 Which one of us allows all reaity - to validate scripture
Definition - Gnostic Christianity | | | Which one of us deny Jewish Theology + deny Jewish demonology – deny that Jesus Christ was God incarnate – and push Catholic satan doctrine as a replacement – regurgitated by the wife of an elder of a failed prophesy cult. Which one of us denies the truth of Rom 1:19 + Psa 19:2
Which one of us must deny all reaity - to maintain their doctrine Which one of us must deny all scientific evidence - to validate their doctine Definition of SDA Ellen White-ism |
Once Saved Always Saved - By Dr. Chuck Missler
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2022 4:45:30 GMT -5
Nice video by Chuck''
Chuck Missler Once saved always saved. D" justification "I have been saved" Jesus paid whole price gift received by faith alone, Also being saved, sanctification, conditioned to improve. Glorification, some with more glory than others, We do works of the HS in me. We all judged by the fruit we born, his work in me, by that I gain rewards. Separation from penalty of sin -> Justification Separation from power of sin -> Sanctification Separation from Presence of sin -? Glorification
The paradigm of salvation....
He is not saying once saved always saved.... If you remain faithful to Jesus, you have the promise of being saved... yes.
Like the way He presented it.
I have a different view
Receiving the Seed, justified Allowing the seedling to grow , sanctified Sharing the fruits of the Divine, glorified
Different view of salvation the Seed.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 3, 2022 6:27:19 GMT -5
He is not saying once saved always saved....
PLEASE - go to a quite place - put on head phones - turn the volume up as loud as it will go and listen to 0:40- 1:10 - it will only take you 30 econds
He says maybe you are not - if your salvation depends on the things you do but we are - because of the completed works of Christ
Why do you teach doubt? IS DOUBT and insecurity the lesson of Ellen White?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2022 17:27:54 GMT -5
Do you have poor listening skills, some say I do?
Presenter" can you lost your eternal security 1: 00 Chuck replied, "I think you can I know I can't, because I am dependent upon the complete work of Christ
So our eternal security depends upon our attitudes to what Jesus has done for me, our humility and meekness to the work of Jesus completely saving us, and our response to that work.
Chuck says that above.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 3, 2022 23:02:38 GMT -5
REPEAT He says maybe you are not - if your salvation depends on the things you dobut we are - because of the completed works of Christ
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2022 4:14:38 GMT -5
What things do we do to accept the salvation of Christ , Dave?
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Post by Dave on Jul 4, 2022 6:31:43 GMT -5
Easy - NOT hard or complicated
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
any attempt to make salvation more complicated than this is just satanic doubt
Who Am I - Casting Crowns Who am I, that the Lord of all the earth Would care to know my name Would care to feel my hurt? Who am I, that the bright and morning star Would choose to light the way For my ever wandering heart?
Not because of who I am But because of what You've done Not because of what I've done But because of who You are
I am a flower quickly fading Here today and gone tomorrow A wave tossed in the ocean A vapor in the wind Still You hear me when I'm calling Lord, You catch me when I'm falling You've told me who I am I am Yours
Belief comes in various degrees of afformation Pepole that hold thier belief privately and quietly - are saved with proportional punishment People that are on fire for their faith - are saved with reward / proportional punishment People that generate Fruit - have the best reward / least proportional punishment People that become First Fruits = Divine Pardon - skip proportionial punishment - plucked from the fire of proportional punishment
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2022 16:21:05 GMT -5
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever "amanuah" in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
That process you describe as easy, has the word "faith" in it.
Jews see this word meaning "trust".... Hmm? OK, but "more than trust"
Christians see the word meaning "believe" ... but more than "knowledge"
The word "amanuah" means "the Strong (alpeh) Flow (mem) over the nations (nun) from the Divine Being, Behold! (hey)"
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Post by Dave on Jul 4, 2022 19:07:29 GMT -5
The Word is
G4100 - πιστεύω - From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with. Total KJV occurrences: 248
Stop rewriting scripture to fit your doctrine
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2022 3:41:19 GMT -5
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Hebrew makes a prophecy that the torah goes out in a new tongue.
The original tongue is than Hebrew, the translation is Greek.
G4100 - πιστεύω - From G4102; to have faith''
Is the same as amanuah, the Hebrew word for faith.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 5, 2022 8:04:38 GMT -5
When I read Scripture, especially the NT, I read it in the original Hebrew, as the NT Greek is a translation of the NT Hebrew. It reduces confusion to do this, and allows the NT to line up with the OT. There is my authority there, so I convert the words back to Hebrew.Why don’t you understand your own translation? The Robert method is flawed – error – garbage – misleading – you change scripture into anything you want it to say D"Why would Christ have to be a sin offering for the atonement of the people's sacrifices to the lord for unintentional sin R" What does this mean?I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU MEAN BY REWRITING SCRIPTURE I asked you – but you never gave me an answerHeb 2:17 .... to make reconciliation for the sin-offerings of the people. Heb 2:17 .... to make reconciliation (G2433) for the sin-offerings (G266) of the people (TLV) … to make atonement for the sins of the people. (YLT) … to make propitiation for the sins of the people, (BBE) … making offerings for the sins of the people. (CEBA) … in order to wipe away the sins of the people. (CJB) … making a kapparah for the sins of the people. (GW) … make peace with God for their sins. (JUB) … to make atonement for the sins of the people. (LEB) … to make atonement for the sins of the people. (NCV) … Then Jesus could bring forgiveness for their sins (NIVR) … could pay for the sins of the people by dying for them. (NIV) … make atonement for the sins of the people. Heb 2:17 .... to make reconciliation (G2433) for the sin-offerings (G266) of the people R" What does this mean? I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU MEAN BY REWRITING SCRIPTURE I have asked you – 3 times now - but you refuse to give me an answerWhy don’t you understand your own translation?The Robert method is flawed – error – garbage – misleading – you change scripture into anything you want it to say It reduces (only adds a layer of) confusion to do this, and allows the NT to line up with the OT. Ellen White doctrineAll you have proven - is that your Robert Method is error and adds to your confusion
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2022 13:54:13 GMT -5
D" Why don’t you understand your own translation? The Robert method is flawed – error – garbage – misleading – you change scripture into anything you want it to say R" Not so, I follow Jeff Benner as nearly always on this, he says the term chataah is not just "error" but the idea of sacrifice to atone for those errors. . This is in English correctly
Ex 30:10 And Aaron shall make an atonement upon the horns of it once in a year with the blood of the sin offering of atonements: once in the year shall he make atonement upon it throughout your generations: it is most holy unto the LORD
THis verse has three contexts for the same words "chata" and "chataah"
Ex 32:30 ¶ And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin. ( The KJV reads OK)
But so does this
Ex 32:30 ¶ And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin-offering: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin-offering.
Is it simply as Jeff translates
Ex 32:30 ¶ And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have erred a great error: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your error.
To me Jeff's English idea, removes the atonement process, and the idea of a sin bearer.
D"I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU MEAN BY REWRITING SCRIPTURE R" When a sinner sins, he had to in the OT torah sacrifice a pet lamb thus confessing his sin unto the lamb, and the lamb when killed caused your sins to be lifted away.
The sin was thus transferred into the earthly sanctuary.
Than once a year the earthly sanctuary was cleansed from all the sins confessed there, thus we have another view of a judgement for the people, to vindicate them as righteous.
The confessed sins were paid for by the high priest sacrifice which later confessed the sins unto a live goat that bore the sins until it died later in the desert.
This process is highly complex and shows the sin-offering process.
It beings with a sinners confession. Than transfer of sins unto a sin-bearer Than the sin bear dies for those sins Than the confessed sins are transferred into the heavenly sanctuary After a precise time, the heavenly sanctuary is cleansed and all sin-offerings are process by the high priest and judged, to vindicate the sinner as righteous. Once this process is finished, Jesus comes to take the vindicated ones to heaven. In a sense we saints do not face a judgement personally, we have Jesus who does this for us. Only the wicked stand judgement without Jesus helping them, so they face all the sins they have every committed. This process of "sin-offering" was slanged by wicked people too, with child sacrifice, something God hated. Only divinity could make the mischief of the mischief maker go away, and only divinity could offer eternal life for eternal death, as the life demands.
D "All you have proven - is that your Robert Method is error and adds to your confusion
R" Not my intention, the SDA have some doctrines not found in other churches, the heavenly sanctuary message is one of them.
Our high priest in heaven's temple is very busy dealing with sin and the sinnings every day. SHalom
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