|
Post by Dave on Jan 1, 2020 23:13:52 GMT -5
We can't even agree over words. What difference between form and create? God is light, but GOD is not dark? what does this mean? bara cannot be fill or fatten, how does light fatten dark? It doesn't. Somebody told me – you like to play word games I wonder where they get that idea It is a nice presentation
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2020 12:20:17 GMT -5
Thanks, do the shadow experiment. Where does the dark come from? It doesn't. Sure the dark edges are founded by light, but dark itself does not come from GOD.
Somebody told me – you like to play word games
Really?
Ps 110:1 ¶ <<A Psalm <mizmowr> of David <David>.>> The LORD <Y@hovah> said <n@'um> unto my Lord <'adown>, Sit <yashab> thou at my right hand <yamiyn>, until I make <shiyth> thine enemies <'oyeb> thy footstool <hadom> <regel>. (KJV) 1 ¶ Ein Psalm Davids. Der HERR sprach zu meinem HERRN: "Setze dich zu meiner Rechten, bis ich deine Feinde zum Schemel deiner Füße lege." (LGB)
Eph 6:9 And <kai>, ye masters <kurios>, do <poieo> the same things <autos> unto <pros> them <autos>, forbearing <aniemi> threatening <apeile>: knowing <eido> that <hoti> your <humon> <autos> Master <kurios> also <kai> is <esti> in <en> heaven <ouranos>; neither <kai> <ou> is there <esti> respect of persons <prosopolepsia> with <para> him <autos>. (KJV) 9 Und ihr Herren, tut auch dasselbe gegen sie und lasset das Drohen; wisset, daß auch euer HERR im Himmel ist und ist bei ihm kein Ansehen der Person. (LGB)
Col 4:1 ¶ Masters <kurios>, give <parecho> unto your servants <doulos> that which is just <dikaios> and <kai> equal <isotes>; knowing <eido> that <hoti> ye <humeis> also <kai> have <echo> a Master <kurios> in <en> heaven <ouranos>. (KJV) 1 ¶ Ihr Herren, was recht und billig ist, das beweiset den Knechten, und wisset, daß ihr auch einen HERRN im Himmel habt. (LGB)
Notice how consistent Luther is with translating Adown as Herr, in the NT also, which has this silly notion of kurios, in the Greek.
Luther does not play word games, neither do I.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2020 16:40:21 GMT -5
Free Will – the choice is always man’s The only thing man creates is his own destiny by the choice he makes daily
Sure I agree the only thing man has is free will of choice.
But if GOD engineers the bad as well as the good, if GOD does the bad as well as the good, its not a choice is it?
Its like voting for a President of the USA, but all candidates are on the same side of politics. How's that a choice?
Again you don't comment upon our shadow experiment...
How is darkness defined? by the light. Is darkness got anything to do with light? no Darkness is the absence of light.
Can a human do darkness on their own? No
You cannot do darkness on your own, it has to reference GOD.
Your darkness in order to exist, has to be defined by GOD (light) otherwise you yourself can't see that darkness. Hence why you see such texts in the Bible...
But does GOD do darkness? no Does GOD murder and kill?
Now murder and kill, is the cessation of life. Where does life come from? GOD SO if GOD separates from you, you die.
This is similar to the shadow experiment. You walk closer to GOD, you live. You walk further from GOD you die. Can you live without reference to GOD? no Can you die without reference to GOD? no SO even in death, GOD is required to reference you state of Being.
This is why Scripture parallels darkness with the "shadow of death".
This is also similar to Satan, the opponent who opposes GOD, it's a relationship... thing... sinning is a relationship that opposes GOD. That's why sin, or missing is a big deal to GOD.
SO you're saying, if GOD does darkness, and GOD does murder and killings, than also GOD does sinning too. Creating anything less than perfect, less than TOV, is technically missing. So that kind of Creation is a Sin. Hence your whole Gnostic theology is built upon GOD who makes mistakes, who does bad and who sins.
My kind of GOD is not like that. Mines is all TOV. Mine created a universe with all tov, in it, but also has the ability to become Ra, should mankind sin. Why create a universe with an ability to change? Because sin is about change. Sin is about choice. Before man sinned, some third of all God's angels sinned. SO GOD had a huge problem on His hand. Lots of creatures were doing "missing" before GOD. They didn't want GOD as a source of love in their lives anymore.
But than you say angels has no choice... therefore they cannot miss...sin... but I am saying angels can sin, therefore they have choice... which of us are right?
Let Scripture tell you:
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven:
What is a war? relationship ? opponent? opposes you? fight ?
Is war about sin? Of course.
Whose in the war? Leaders and angels.
When did this war begin?
Re 12:1 ¶ And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
"heaven" both woman and dragon
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
from heaven to earth - both Satan and the woman
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness (Earth), .
On earth now.
The passage suggests the war begin in heaven. than came to earth. and remains on earth to this day.
This is also saying, sin first began in heaven, then sin came to earth, and sin also began in man, and both angels and man now sin together on earth.
Is there any clues to cherub sinning in heaven? Apart from the one text you reject?
I can't find any others... what about a different word "malak"
This word can mean "human messengers", "angel messengers" and "divine messengers".
So by context we can reference "angels" without using the "cherub" word. let's try this idea?
Ps 78:49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.
"ra malak"
Mt 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
For opponent to be saying this opponent must be an angel himself.
Mt 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
angel wanting worship from divine Being...there is sin there...
Mt 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
So there has to be fallen sinful angels, and unfallen non sinning angels.
Mt 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Again good and bad angels...
Ro 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (KJV)
Why is angels listed first as our enemy? Because some angels who sinned before humans ever sinned, are our enemy.
but than you claim all this is Roman edit.
Mt 9:34 But the Pharisees said, He casteth out devils through the prince of the devils.
Why is archon here translated correctly as prince. Because archon is prince. Archon is also devil, by word association here. Devil by word association is Satan. And another word associated with archon is angel.
Mt 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. 25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: 26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? 27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. 29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house. 30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. 31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
In this passage who is Beelzebub?
Why bring Holy Spirit into this story?
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
Why does Satan have a kingdom? that makes Satan a king or prince.
Jesus is not picturing this archon as a His friend, but as an opponent of GOD, His enemy. Jesus came to divide this archon ,Satan and destroy his kingdom.
Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die. 34 The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man? 35 Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.
again this passage is making His death something bigger than just for man, and man's sin.
Who is the author of darkness? in this passage? someone else apart from GOD.
Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
Why did Satan the archon want Jesus the Son of GOD to sin? Did the Archon only want Jesus the Son of Man to sin? Which sin would have been more costly to GOD?
Why are angels interested in making humans sin anyway? just testing? hardly has to be more to it than that?
Ac 7:35 This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush. 36 He brought them out, after that he had shewed wonders and signs in the land of Egypt, and in the Red sea, and in the wilderness forty years. 37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. 38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers:
Love this verse
kathestemi archon, both words side by side, and you struggle to know what they mean? How uncanny
Ac 7:35 This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who "ruled" thee a Prince-Ruler and a judge?
So you can't have a war, if both sides are on the sae side. For example world war I and II, are not mentioned in Bible. They weren't wars. They were Mason deals to bring more money into the world through fighting. True wars have enemies.
When is says there was war in heaven, its a real war...not a good angel doing a bad job.... that a fake war...
shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jan 2, 2020 22:22:46 GMT -5
Did God make Cain kill able? Did God make Eve eat of the fruit? God allow man’s Free Will – God set the stage – He created a The Beautiful Forest and He created the Matches – Eve choose to burn it down. Does God come down and put the fire out? – NO! God allows the archon to fan the flames God allows the Contest to unfold God – just gave his children a life preserver – Christ To excape harm? NO! To be empowered to endure Harm! Even if this world kills you – ouch! Remember the time I asked you to tell me what "kathemstemi" means in a single English word? you never did tell me? See I don't play word games, words are important. You need to answer my questions... καθίστημι -to appoint (v.) - lexicon.katabiblon.com/index.php?letter=k Yep – ‘bad messenger’ - ‘ra malak’ = archon = chief archon Yep – bad guy angel = archon Yep – good guy angels and bad guy angels = archon God didn’t send an angel of death onto the Egyptians? Why do you think God is not choosing God in this story. You saying in this story God does not support God. How can God sin by exercising His Will upon the planet? Confusing! satan , the devil, the dragon, the serpent, the evil possessing evil spirits of the agl – all know their fate Why don’t they repent and bow to God ? They cannot or the book of revelation would have to be rewritten for a different ending The Free Will of your satan and company can change God’s plan and therefore God’s word Why don’t Michael or Gabriel join the satanic team? They cannot – for the exact same reason Yep – it began in the GAP in the spirit realm – correct. And now it is replaying in our reality As in heaven so also on Earth - Correct Remember Eph 6 and Col 1:16 - it is more than just a satan there are ‘Powers’ and ‘Principalities’ Beelzebub is satan’s commander – satan is not the top archon The archon have a hierarchy of command Chief Archon – 7 generals – 12 lutenists under them Satan can be any one of these three guys – All darkness is their domain – they have subdivided it into 72 kingdoms The difference - church casting out demons by the power of the 'church' - Pharises, Roman Catholics, Exorcist --vrs-- a Christian casting out evil spirits through the name of Jesus Christ and the HS Physical earth is the Kingdom of the ‘sar’ of Earth – this is why ancient Gnostics saw the world as the corruption They say this – because God’s Kingdom is spiritual – it is all around us – non-physical Jews and Christians alike have 9 to 10 orders of angels – already discussed – you rejected it Who appointed (kathestemi) Moses to be a ruler (archon) – God did – (I struggle?) Rev 12:7 There was a πόλεμος in heaven Πόλεμος - G4171 - From πέλομαι pelomai (to bustle); warfare (literally or figuratively; a single encounter or a series): - battle, fight, war. In gen 1:2 there was a bustle in heaven – perhaps one single encounter It happen during the GAP – when the Chief Archon voiced the first arrogant expression that ‘God-is-not-absolute’ Not fake at all – it created the choshek of Gen 1:2 OK explain to me how the choshek of Gen was created / formed / caused / defined by the light of Gen 1:3 Rather – the light came to address the darkness which was first Again – Jesus Christ had to experience life as a human – no special treatment How many people sell their souls to the devile for less than the whole world – some sell it for just fame or fortune – (Foust) The better question should be – why does Christendom suggest that satan lured Judas to betray Jesus Is the Crucifixition and Resurrection the goal of satan – did satan force this outcome? Or did God use Judas as He used Pharaoh? This is the most inspirational quotation by my favorite scientist J. Marvin Herndon – Oct 6th, 2005 – “When you are on the right track, the pieces simple fit together.” Gnosticism is wholelistic – Roman Christendom pidgenholes all theology into the Roman only version. All things point to the Creator and His creation. You are Catholic - because you have been conditioned to believe that all thing are a distraction from God - actully they are a distraction from a larger reality I am a Gnostic and believe in Rom 1:20 and 2 Pet 3:8 and Ps 90:4 and the total Torah / Gospel All things point to the Creator if you look - if you Seek - courious why do do not believe this Psa 19:1 ... The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament showeth his handiwork.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2020 16:16:02 GMT -5
Wow Dave you almost agree with me?
Rob: "For opponent to be saying this opponent must be an angel himself.
Dave: "Yep – bad guy angel = archon
I though you said haSatan is a good angel guy doing a bad job... he is opponent...
You your saying archon-satan-opponent-angel is "bad" - you're agreeing with me?
The meaning of kathestemi as appointed:
Mt 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord "appointed" over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Mt 24:47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall "appoint" him "appointed" over all his goods.
Mt 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will "appoint: thee "appointed" over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mt 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will "appoint" thee "appointed" over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Lu 12:14 And he said unto him, Man, who "appointed " me a judge or a divider over you?
Lu 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall "appoint" over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
Lu 12:44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he "appoint" over all that he hath.
Ac 6:3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may "appoint" over this business.
Ac 7:10 And delivered him out of all his afflictions, and gave him favour and wisdom in the sight of Pharaoh king of Egypt; and he "appointed" him governor over Egypt and all his house.
Ac 7:27 But he that did his neighbour wrong thrust him away, saying, Who "appointed " thee a ruler and a judge over us?
Ac 7:35 This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who "appointed" thee a ruler and a judge?
Ac 17:15 And they "appointed" Paul brought him unto Athens: and receiving a commandment unto Silas and Timotheus for to come to him with all speed, they departed.
Ro 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were "appointed" sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be "appointed" righteous.
Tit 1:5 ¶ For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and "appoint" elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst "appoint" him over the works of thy hands:
Heb 5:1 ¶ For every high priest taken from among men is "appointed" for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
Heb 7:28 For the law "appointeth" men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.
Heb 8:3 For every high priest is "appointed" to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
Jas 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so "appointed is " the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is "appointed as an "enmity with God?
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they "appoint" you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Ge 42:6 And Joseph "apointed" over the land, and he it was that sold to all the people of the land: and Joseph's brethren came, and bowed down themselves before him with their faces to the earth.
Ec 7:19 Wisdom strengtheneth the wise more than ten "apointers" which are in the city.
Ec 8:8 There is no man that "apointeth" over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.
Ec 10:5 There is an evil which I have seen under the sun, as an error which proceedeth from the "appointee":
Some sentences glare at you:
Pharoah appointed Joseph as appointee over the wheat business. OK, that means Joseph as a ruler over the wheat handling?
Ge 42:6 And Joseph "apointed" over the land
better to say
Ge 42:6 And Joseph "ruled" over the land
Ro 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were "appointed" sinners,
SO Adam's sin appoints all humans born as sinners? right? no
Otherwise Jesus cannot be born of humans, without also being a sinner?
the obedience of one shall many be "appointed" righteous.
This says once saved always saved. your appointed as righteous ? no
Jesus rules over you daily, and your saved.... not appointed...
When you choose word meanings, people have bias... the word appoint is OK in most places, but not al sentences...
Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jan 5, 2020 1:07:55 GMT -5
Wow Dave you almost agree with me? Rob: "For opponent to be saying this opponent must be an angel himself. Dave: "Yep – bad guy angel = archonI though you said haSatan is a good angel guy doing a bad job... he is opponent... You your saying archon-satan-opponent-angel is "bad" - you're agreeing with me? When did I even say that satan was not of the archon? All archon test creation - don't you get it You are play a word games - just so you do not have to see the truth Archon are man's accusor - man's opponet if you must use that term Archon hinder man from becoming awakened - remember anti-awakening forces All archon are under God's control satan does wht God allows him to do the archon do what God allows them to do God commands them - He sent satan unto Job - He sent evil spirit unto Saul All of this in service to the Creator - or God is not in control and God's plan for man is not happening the way God designed it No I do not agree with you - about your satan god - who can overthrow God's plan and change it
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jan 5, 2020 1:38:20 GMT -5
Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Dave: " Give me an example how Roman Christianity does this. Crusades, inquisition, 30 years war Why didn’t the official Roman Catholic Church take a public stance against Hitler? Rob's answer - Who says the system of Roman Catholicism is only all Christian, is it not Pagan too? Would not the black Pope see Hitler on their side? Word games – question asked - Where is your example? I asked you who the Beast of Revelation was – you answered with – Simon Magnus You are correct – Roman Christendom is not all of Christianity There are Coptic Christians – Eastern Oriental Christians and Russian Orthodox Christians, but you claimed not to know anything them - questioned if Coptic Christians were really Christian – question why the Copts would have scripture Rome didn’t approve of - None of these Churches use your Roman Canon. In fact you are upset that the Jews use scripture Rome doesn’t approve of Roman Christendom = Catholic and everything it spawns – SDA – Presbyterian – Baptist – Mennonite - etc – all satan worshipers – all place satan above all other angels – all consider their satan powerful enough to war against God himself – One on one satan vers God – all of it 100% Catholic Give me one example how Roman Christendom spreads the Love of Christ Isn’t this the same people that have a ‘Christian Militia’?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2020 13:25:27 GMT -5
Dave : "All archon are under God's control Satan does what God allows him to do the archon do what God allows them to do God commands them - He sent Satan unto Job - He sent evil spirit unto Saul
All of this in service to the Creator - or God is not in control and God's plan for man is not happening the way God designed it"
I see. So all this evil is a service to the Creator? otherwise GOD is not in control?
You don't get it. The shadow experiment. Who is in control? Light is. What causes the shadows of RA, the evil of darkness? You do, only in reference to GOD, the source of light. It's a relationship response on your behalf. GOD only engineers your response to HIM.
Never would I write the shadows "are a service to my Creator".
Ps 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
Here is a famous prayer, David speaking of walking under GOD, the shadows of death fall behind him, its a shadow experiment, showing how RA is made, by how you walk, close or far from GOD.
Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. (KJV)
James says a similar thing, the Father of Light has no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Again the shadow experiment. Sure Father-Light is in control, but He does not do Ra, or personally get involved in RA, you do. Fallen angels do. Ra has to be sin defined.
You would say entropy is a natural running down , I would say its a sin, caused from sin, by a sinner. In the universe GOD set up for man, there was no entropy. Dust would stay where it is, Friction would not exist. A world strange to us, yes. All TOV.
So where does RA, shadows, darkness come from? From sinners. Has to be. GOD is no sinner. Creatures sin, Like angels, or archons you admit. But somehow satan is not a sinning angel? He is a good angel doing a bad job?
The same word "satan" was GOD attacking Baalim. Was Baalim under GOD's control? yes, He was told to do as he was told. Was Baalim a good guy doing a bad job? Baalim is an example of how to read "satan" in human and divine stories. NT writes about Baalim as a evil person. SO he did as he was told, under duress. Same as fallen angel in Job.
Why have an entire story in the OT? using "satan" referencing GOD to Baalim, the evil guy? SO we might understand JOB, the evil guy referencing GOD, the roles are reversed.
Why are their control limits on Satan Dave?
If GOD didn't control Satan over Job, would Job's wife and Job have lived? I doubt it.
When the four winds are let go, during the final 70 days of earth's history and all are saved that could be saved, and finally Satan has full control of earth... what happens? peace? no. Satan is a destroyer destroying the earth...He knows he is doomed...so he is spiteful...
He lost when he killed God's Son.
You say Satan dies in hell, but also is a friend of GOD? how is this? Your playing word games. Why did Satan ask Jesus to worship Him, if He is a friend?
Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jan 5, 2020 18:21:17 GMT -5
See - here is your word game I say satan is a servant of the Lord
Therefore you jump to friendship
How do you make this connection? ands more importantly - why do you make this connection - deliberately jumping to an impossible conclusion just so you can say you dont understand.
Jesus had to be tested / tempted the same as every man This seems to be a very importabnt part of the Christ sacrifice - He was fully human Are you suggesting that it would be OK for Christ not to experinece mortal life as a man?
As a Christian - this is a benchmark doctrine Thanks satan for validating that Jesus Christ was perfect enough to resist How would we know that Jesus Christ was perfect - if He was not tempted by satan?
satan plays a very important role for the Lord Why does this make them friends?
You would never say that the archon are in service of the Lord
Our commadment = Deu 6:5 and thou shalt love Jehovah thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
God test us to see if this is true:
Deu 13:3 thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or unto that dreamer of dreams: for Jehovah your God proveth you, to know wheth
How does your God test us - without using a proxy to do his dirty work Does God do it directly - did God kill Job's family? Does God do it directly - did God kill the Egyptian first born by His own hand? So - you are saying your God does ra directly - murder on a grand scale
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2020 13:58:13 GMT -5
Nice reply Dave, I see your view, makes sense.
Sure I agree GOD is in control. But I see God places limits on RA (done by humans and Satan, archons etc, not by GOD personally) to stop RA from killing us all immediately.
I guess one could say limiting the RA, controls the RA. Well I guess it does, to some extent.
It's a bit why I drive with one hand major control over the car steering and a another hand to the right at 3 o'clock, to limit the reaction of the hand at 12 o'clock. Otherwise the major hand over reacts in stress times, the other hand slows the over reaction down.
I feel GOD does control RA lots, to slow down its growth, its explosive nature to kill all things... so I can relate to what you saying...
But you say GOD designed RA from Creation. He made the archons as a byproduct of Creation.
I do not accept this. This makes GOD a sinner, missing perfection from Himself.
You showed me Gnostic texts on this... GOD makes mistakes, things slip out from Creation, oops archons come to be? no
GOD is bigger than that. His Creation was "very good" is says, all TOV.
Some questions you ask?
How does your God test us - without using a proxy to do his dirty work Does God do it directly - did God kill Job's family? Does God do it directly - did God kill the Egyptian first born by His own hand? So - you are saying your God does ra directly - murder on a grand scale
When you connect your hand to GOD's hand, and walk together, Satan-Archons will not want this? Why? Because they sinned and face death. You sinned and face live. Not fair they muse. God is not just, they muse. They hate GOD. SO they hate you, and your relationship to GOD. When you cross over to GOD's side, have you really crossed over? Do we also daily not cross back and sin again and again, when if we are in Jesus we do not sin?
I don't see it as them doing God's dirty work. But them hating us and GOD. Sin by definition is an enemy of GOD. Sinners by definition also hate GOD. Some of us though want to love GOD, and cross over from sinners to saints, yet we still do sinning, and feel the worse of sinners. Some of this sinning comes from propensities in our flesh, the mind is willing but the body is weak. Some of this sinning comes from temptations from archons who hate us because we are loving GOD.
Why do wicked people hate GOD? Why do archons hate GOD? don't know this answer.
God placed limits on Satan with Job. to stop Satan from killing everything. Would Satan kill everything? yes. He hates anybody wanting to love GOD, he would destroy you if you tried this.
When I tried to love GOD in my life, my whole family was destroyed. All left the church except me, all don't talk to me. Wife hates me. Nobody love GOD anymore. Its so tragic my Pastor cried when I told him the story. Sure I know Satanic attacks. I feel like Job.
The Egyptians is a simile of the world. God wanted to save the world. Some Egyptians were saved, some lost. Who killed them? God did? Is this fair? Well how long should people walk in darkness? Some get 70 years, some 20 years. Why the difference? Known only to GOD.
If GOD is the Author of life, God is able to remove life from you, because you seek death. If a person wanted life, they would have responded to the call to be saved. But they didn't.
Did GOD do the killing? no the person did by walking in the RA. Are we to expect GOD allow us all to live for 930 years in RA life Adam did? no. We get less and less living. I reckon its mercy we live as long as we do.
NO God does not do RA directly. We do. God only allow RA to exist, hence creates its existence, so you see yourself in it.
SHalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jan 7, 2020 13:08:50 GMT -5
Nice reply Dave, I see your view, makes sense. For me – it is not about making sense – but closing the loop holes - / eliminating the exceptions Catholics – paint their theology into a ‘one-way’ corner and make it absolute Then –they avoid all the questions about the exceptions In science – in the real world – any ‘theory’ – any ‘explanation of the way things are’ – that has exceptions – is not the correct theory. It is only the best fit explanation at the time – with the information we have. But over time – as the information grows – so does the theory Until the theory can explain all and every exception it only remains a theory The Catholic View – is stunted / limited / and very anti-Jewish – and tries to usurp Judaism’s prominence as the base religion. Jesus was a Jew and claimed not to change even one little tittle of the Torah. Rabbi Friedman says – when you and I see RA – we are so small we just do not see the TOV in it He uses the example of how we see something as RA – but then as we learn the why of it – we can see it as TOV. Jesus Christ was jailed, convicted wrongfully, and nailed to a cross until He died – RA – right? OH – but it opened the door to baptism of the HS and Christianity – isn’t that TOV? What appears as RA to us – is necessary for the TOV to express itself Jews say – without the ra – where is virtue? Another interesting thing Rabbi Friedmans says – Perhaps God is less concerned with the individual then the collective. God saved the Israeli people – not the individual Jews of the Holocaust. Rabbi Friedman even finds TOV in the Holocaust – He said – what was the TOV of the Holocaust = 6 million Jews were martyrs – the surviving Jews returned to God – then returned to Israel. So ½ of the Jews of the world found martyrdom and the other half returned to God – TOV and TOV So what looked like the biggest RA against the Jews of the Century was actually the Biggest TOV for the Jews of the Century. – A Jews says this! What is the history of the ahl – the Jews walked with God and won outrageous battles – Israel was strong – then they stopped walking with God and holocaust follows – every time – each step of the way was GOD 1945, WWII, Hitler, Holocaust and all Catholics can see is satan / evil and ask – how can this be a part of God’s plan Hello Catholics – ever read the ahl – it is one Hitler and holocaust after another – all at the hand of God. Catholics just can’t see it because they are stuck in the “Feel Good” religion where God cannot exercise his righteous judgment – because it wouldn’t be tov Judgment never feels like TOV to man So – you are saying that God does his only dirty work? God does the RA directly? The Lord’s prayer taught by Jesus Himself says – God is the one that leads us to temptation For months you have been arguing that it is impossible for God to do RA himself Gnostics say – He has a staff for that Just as God has an angel of birth – Gabriel Just as God has an angel of war – Michael Just as God has an angel of knowledge - Urial OH YES! – the Catholic guilt tripI played this game for years At the age of 18 I was passing out religious tracks on the street corner in Boston – then smoked pot once I was back to my dorm. I didn’t stop smoking – I could not walk the talk – I was a failure as a Christian. I believe in you God – yet I keep acting like an animal – I am sorry Televangelist Joyce Meter – uses the term “Just Prayers” (I do not suggest her) But the phrase “Just Prayers” sums up Catholic life – all prayers sound like – ‘If you just forgive me for this – and if you would just forgive me for that – I am sorry I am a sinner’ Catholic Guilt Trip – 100% - more of Paul-ism – he was the worst of sinners and therefore we Christian are as well – stop being an animal! Sorry Catholics – God knows we are animal – God knows exactly how we are tempted (because He became as a man to experience it for Himself) – We did not choose to be an animal – this choice has nothing to do with it. It is the choices we make as animals that matter How can your prayers be filled with praise – if your busy apologizing for things God already knows and understands Learning this changed my prayer life and my walk with the LordIf you do not feel worthy of the Lord’s grace – how can you share with him? How can you learn to pray with your spirit (Soul - in praise) if your (Mind-Body) is so busy feeling guilty for being an animal? Some of this sinning comes from propensities in our flesh, the mind is willing but the body is weak. YES! – no assistance from the archon required Some of this sinning comes from temptations from archons YES! – My example of little Jimmy – Mom and Dad are good tithing Christians – never miss a Sunday -= they help their neighbors and help the community – Great Christian examples of Church. Then their little boy dies – why? Catholics – have no answer – because it does not fit in with Feel Goodism Gnostic say – the test may have been someone else’s Jews say – perhaps the parents are being tested – Job Do they remain Great Christian examples of Church? Some do – many (most) walk away from church because it was an empty message for them Correction - No first born were saved – all first born were killed - none were saved OH – this brings up yet another study. Can a person who has led a RA life – be saved on their death bed? (Catholic Rites of Absolution) Accept Christ just before you die and you are saved! If God stuff out your life early – aren’t you denied the ability to Choose? Isn't this why suicide is a sin? - because you are 'choosing' to eliminte the opportunity for God to reach down and touch you / use you? See this is confusing God did it – but God didn’t do it? - Are you saying the newly born infants and all the children committed suicide? Gnostics say – God made the decision – his staff carried out the sentence - Angel of Death Righteous Judgment is always TOV – and no it is not fair Also it is an example of God’s double standard God can kill – as judgment - Man cannot God is selfish - man cannot be
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2020 13:45:50 GMT -5
So Dave , how does this praying, and being saved by GOD work for you?
How can your prayers be filled with praise – if your busy apologizing for things God already knows and understands
There is a sin-offering, not unto death. Some relationships of darkness while walking in Jesus light, covers you, so this missing is NOT unto death. Remember the shadow experiment?
There are two shadows from light, depends upon you how close or far you are from GOD.
One shadow is unto death. Light does not enter the darkness. The other shadow is NOT unto death, light enters into the darkness.
In our walk with Jesus, we have to stop all missing. Otherwise we do not know Him. How do we get to know Jesus. How does faith work?
Give me an example of your daily walk with Jesus, your prayer life, and say a temptation comes in your eyes to do missing. How do you stop the sinning?
Such questions are more important to me, than all the months we battle over whom is controlling ra and tov and so forth.
Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jan 7, 2020 15:40:44 GMT -5
In our walk with Jesus, we have to stop all missing. Otherwise we do not know Him. What a Catholic absolute statement – what a man-made judgment tool If we know Jesus – we stop all sinning Did Judas? Did Peter? He denied Christ 3 times Did Paul – he rights not – in fact Paul calls himself the worse of sinners So Paul was not a Christian – according to your Catholic absolutism? Sorry to burst your bubble – Both Peter and Paul were still animals and suffered as animals You and I are animals – born as animal vehicles to carry around our Soul Prove to me that once you accept Christ – you stop being an animal with carnal desire – hunger, lust, survival, etc – Paul remained an imperfect animal – so did Peter If you want to argue that Peter was not born again because Christ was still alive – OK Paul was Born again – he is the definition of Born Again So one is and one isn’t – yet both act as mortal men struggling with their own natures It would be really arrogant to use me as an example – I am no better off than Paul. I am just a man that Loves the Lord. How do I deal with temptation? Actually – age as a measure of maturity helps. When I was in my 30s every teenaged girl was attractive – now that I am in my 60s, I cannot stand to be in the same room with them. Beautiful women do not bother me at all – However, slutty women cause me to pray Can I think carnal thoughts – mid prayer? NO I cannot! Here is an example my x-wife tells about me. We ate at a truck stop in Arkansas. When I went to pay for our meal, no one was at the cashiers station - i stood there a long time - the manager saw me and asked what I was doing. When I told him I was trying to pay – he ran off and returned with a little Black girl (18-25yrs). She thanked me for waiting – anyone else would have just left without paying. My response to this little girl – “One day I am going to meet my maker – the last thing I want Him to say to me is – ‘remember that day in Arkansas” Did I witness for the Lord to her? – I tried my best in as few words as possible Another time I was at a factory to pick up a shipment – then foreman came running out screaming at me not to touch that freight – he screamed and yelled and called me many names – then he discovered that he was wrong and I was correct. He sought me out to apologies – I stopped him just a few words into his apology – by saying someone else already forgave him 2000 years ago Did I witness for the Lord to Him? – I tried my best in as few words as possible How do I deal with temptation? – Prayer The more temptation the more prayer Where is my sin – choosing not to pray through it Not praying for forgiveness later – but praying through the temptation You once said – you would have a hard time ministering in a brothel – wouldn’t all men made of Mind-Body animal – which is all of us! But, lead a group of wayward women in a prayer – are your thoughts the same mid-prayer? Of course I would get out of there asap – or become an obstacle by praying unceasingly – or stop praying and start sinning – both solution depend on prayer and my choices Praying unceasingly – that is the goal How does faith work – my answer – faith = gnosis As a child I was told – do not stick my hand into the fire – it will burn Even tho I believed this – I as an animal had to test it myself – to see if the commandment was valid At age 64 – I have tested this many times – over and over – it would seem like I would learn my lesson What is the lesson I need to learn here – I do no longer believe the fire will burn – I gnosis it will This gnosis of fire – changed my respect for it When people are new in Church – they are believers – they want it to be real – they believe it to be real. Then as Mind-Body they test it – I did this and God still loves me. Catholics believe they can do almost anything and pray later for forgiveness. Ali – used to say – Christians rape, pillage, and plunder all day long then say their prayers before bed so they can sleep with a clean conscious – only to wake and repeat the same rape, pillage, and plunder tomorrow - isn’t his the message of Roman Christendom? It OK – God will forgive you. What an INCORRECT message – what an incorrect Gospel!Islam says – strict obedience, if not we will kill you dead for being a heathen – this is tangible for man. This tangibility of Islam is more attractive than the non-tangible hope of salvation promised by the Catholic Church RA is tangible – you can see it, smell it, and taste it One Hitler affected 35 million people for three generations – tangible Christ reviled Himself only to one non-disciple the Samarian woman at the well – affecting only one This is why you failed to give me an example of God’s love on earth – because it happens one random act of kindness at a time – one on one – See – what a catholic educational thing to say How did you get to know me? You said hello and I answered. We have talked – we have argued – I have mocked you – you thought me lost – even asked if I don’t actually pray to evil spirits. In the end – you gnosis I am real – I am not a computer somewhere – I am not a group of people – you gnosis that I am I am sure the answer is different for everyone. But I think it as easy as saying hello – then talk with Him, argue with Him (I sure have) When – on Sun day – in the morning – before I go to bed – NO! Continually Believers become righteous ass holes who are righter than everyone else and have the ability to judge. Christians – become humble – understanding that they know nothing – do not judge others – and only take their direction from God / Christ / HS via prayer Question? How do you know that you do not pray in the spirit? My children laugh at me – I cry watching the news People hurt or killed with graphic imagery – I am moved to tears – why? My Mind-Body is so desensitized to killing and war – it was a childhood game I played when I was small – model military planes – toy army men – I blew them up over and over What are all video games – shooting, killing, carnage – these are the games we play The Rabbi asked – where do selfless acts come from? Why do we have compassion for people we don’t even know? It is the yester tov within us urging us to care. It is our Soul that cares for another – why – because of the Souls mission during its earthly souljourn – remember and help other souljourning souls to remember
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Jan 8, 2020 12:56:53 GMT -5
Praying continually Dave you are making it sound as if prayers are always defensive prayers. Asking for the strength to withsatnd your temptations. Do not forget to continually praise the Lord in prayer. If you stood in the middle of your brothel singing praises to the Lord, it would have the same effect.
I have followed your discussion here and held my opinion. Robert you said, "Sin by definition is an enemy of GOD." My opinion, you are overwhelmed by the enemy and hate concept.
sin = noun, an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law.
How is transgressing the law make you an enemy? Do you ever transgress the law? Are you God's enemy? I doubt it! As a Christian, you could also explain for me what is the divine law and how man transgresses it.
I do not agree with everything the Rabbis say and I don't agree with Dave a lot of the time, but you do seem overly preoccupied with an enemy of hate. Even if I agree with you about Isaiah 14, it still doesn't imply hate; but rather it implies self-serving arrogance.
How to know Jesus? - Our congregation teaches quite prayers. Alone, in the dark, in refection of self before the Lord. If I transgressed my law, my committment to the Lord, my promise to the Lord, my vow to the Lord; in quite refelction we can be honest with ourselves and to the Lord. If I mouth an appoligy (as Dave says) my mind, my self-preserving intelect will mouth an excuse. If we discuss it verbaly we say things like: the other guy irritated me, the other guy was asking for it, the other guy was pushing me, or even worse, the other guy deserved it. All of it an excuse. All of it a human justification. All of it not relevant! The only relevant fact is that we missed (as you say).
We also do not teach specific prayers. Some people pray that mom recovers from her illness. We simply pray for God's will to be done. How do we know God's will for mom? Perhaps He is calling her home, while we beg Him in prayer not to. Mom dies acording to God's will, but those begging Him not to only see unanswered prayers.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2020 13:11:18 GMT -5
Really beautiful and touching response Dave. Thank you. All of us live by the light of experience we have, all of us ponder the confusion as our world view guides us. I pray you also become a firebrand snatched from the fires by the hand of Jesus, and see HIM face to face in the kingdom. What a day that will be. I liked you answers very much. We pray and walk with GOD is similar ways, just use different words to express the same thing. As for differences in our torah understanding? Does this matter? I don't know, I hope not. Remember the shadow experiment? Why do I use this so much? Because 1 John does. When you move closer to Jesus, the choshek darkness goes away, the umbra darkness science labels this. The light covered darkness increases, the sin-offering NOT unto death, gets larger, the preumbra shadow. We feel as chief sinners, while our choshek darkness sinning stops. This is what 1 John is saying. spiritualsprings.org/ss-759.htm Have you read our study of shadows? The famous shadow experiment shows us two shadows... both come from relationship positions to Jesus. So this condition is not some Catholic legalism as you claim, its just a relationship process when we come closer to Jesus. You are as you say, more attune to your praying to GOD. Loved your examples of witness. God bless your ministries and you walk with GOD. Shalom
|
|