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Post by Dave on Dec 22, 2019 12:07:43 GMT -5
[quote author="@robertt" source="/post/3180/thread" timestamp="1576956606 Dave: The Torah is absolute - Torah cannot be diluted to fit the religion (I re-write your words) Rob: I agree with this, BUT "As you move further from tov towards ra, the torah rules change." [/quote] This is a Catholic myth – the rule change – be liberal it OK In America I can find you a transgender female lesbian pastor telling you how to be saved – perhaps if the rule change – she (I mean it) is correct after all
All these years Jews have been trying to follow God’s commands – thank goodness Christians change the rules to allow their mythological BS
So – you say it is as simple as one word – then you go on to make it religious Your mission as a soul on earth it to remember – then to help other souljourners to remember – this is the LOVE of God – knowing HIM
So – how long is your list – if you start choosing to list works of the flesh by individual deed – where does your list end My list is very short – any choice obeying / Seeking – the Torah / God / God’s Will = mitzvah Any other choice – is a chata choice of creation – choose creation over God (regardless what carnal desire you want to put on your list)
You sure love those Christian list of dos and don’ts The fruit of the spirit = mitzvah
Because it has nothing to do with ‘LIST’ od dos and don’ts
To ensure the survival of the 1%. If you are unaware of the health benefits of circumcision for ancient man – you should check it out God introduced Himself to only 1% of the world’s population and set His Will in motion through them. Circumcision on the eighth day – exactly when the Baby has an explosion of clotting factors And – spilling no seed upon the ground was a genetic necessity to ensure the healthy survival of God’s 1%
[/font] How can a human obey this torah law, and still live? What is the real circumcising GOD intended? Is there one? Nicodemus What's wrong with our first natural birth? DNA propensities [/quote] Sounds all religiously nice – but is all focused physicality Simple – flesh is not ever getting into heaven - Duh
YES – carnal animal man (Mind-Body) vrs soul But again – something spiritual has changed into physicality – coffee – Morphine – tea So – if you have ever been to a dentist – your lost So – if you have surgery – your lost Don’t tell me you christian rules for dos and don’ts has exceptions
Gnostics believe in Rephiem and Chimerias – what’s your point
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2019 13:34:29 GMT -5
Dave, you write so little .. I try to explain... you knock my attempts...
"You sure love those Christian list of dos and don’ts The fruit of the spirit = mitzvah"
In a world of ra and tov, there has to be many dos and don'ts..
Where does Scripture say "The fruit of the spirit = mitzvah" ?
Which mitzvah...?
Take the three mitzvah on eating food
(1) fruits from trees (2) and also grains - added after sin (3) and clean animals as food - added much later after ra developed
Which mitzvah...? regarding eating food? I am mostly vegetarian... does it matter what we eat? Again Which mitzvah...?
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Post by Dave on Dec 23, 2019 2:26:05 GMT -5
Why do you need a list of religious dos and don’ts? I mock religious dos and don’ts (didn't mean to mock you per se - appolgy extended) Mitvzah = a choice of obedience – any choice – any act of seeking / following / supporting / obeying / honoring Once baptized all choice guided by the HS = mitzvah – because it is in concert / compliance with God – therefore fruit of the spirit - through the spirit = good fruit The man on the cross next to Jesus – did nothing accept gnosis who Jesus really was! Anything that man did before that moment no longer counted! The modern example is – people believe / hope God is there – and have been taught by church that God is tolerant and you can be as liberal of a Christians as you choose Do they change? – NO Why not – because there is a difference between a born again Christian and a religious Christian A religious Christian is playing a belief game – they believe every Sun day Do they get scripture – NO Do they have insight into prophesy – NO Some are card carrying pastor with large congregations – YES! Once Pentecost – religion changes from a thing to do – to a 24/7 walk in conversation with God. Listening to that conversation is the hard part – so many people are trained to jabber on Obeying that conversation = mitzvah As soon as you make a list – you must start making exceptions I am manic depressive – I have been known to have an outburst of anger Does this mean I am not saved? – anger is on your list Jesus threw a fit in the temple – kicked over tables – oops! As soon as you adhere to a list – you are a law based religion
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 13:55:54 GMT -5
Scripture says there is a sin-offering NOT unto death.
Much of our missing at deeper levels is covered by Jesus, even though we become aware of our missing before him. The walk towards tov and ra, goes beyond the rules of torah, as love is not easily quantified, as you write.
As soon as you adhere to a list – you are a law based religion
Correct. nothing wrong with that though, babes need rules to begin with, as they mature the rules become inside our attitude and we do them without thinking. That's how love is once we get to experience it deeply.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 24, 2019 5:02:55 GMT -5
, babes need rules to begin with, as they mature the rules become inside our attitude and we do them without thinking. You make being a Christian like learning to play the piano - this is a religous Christian Just as we critisise relegious Law bound Jews Gnostics seek to be 'walking Christians' - 'walking in the spirit' - this is why we pray in the spirit - this is how we pray in the spirit
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2019 16:10:59 GMT -5
I learned to play the piano, just as your kids learn to play the piano... What wrong with that? Its called training...
Have a blessed day with your kids, and walking with them on Christmas Day.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 25, 2019 11:39:28 GMT -5
I learned to play the piano, just as your kids learn to play the piano... What wrong with that? Its called training... This is why I do not teach this to my children When you train under a human teacher – you receive their bias Often – this is called indoctrination / brain washing If your ‘Christian’ teacher is Catholic bent – your training is Catholic doctrine (indoctrination) If your ‘Christian’ teacher is a Baptist bent – your training is Baptist doctrine (indoctrination) If your ‘Christian’ teacher is Mormon bent – etc –etc – etc - etc Protestant “doctrine” is different – Pentecostal doctrine is different – Jehovah Witness doctrine is different yet There is no such thing as just a Christ following church – EXCEPT the Bride of Christ – Except the Church that existed from the very beginning – Except the Bride that is Raptured into heaven - this is the only Church I am interested in – and it is only Christian I Choose the name Gnostic – to separate myself from that religious stigma of being a Roman Christian Why do you hold Ezk 28 so closely – because it is your training – You have been taught that you have correct doctrine – You have been taught you have the correct Kabbalah Why don’t Jews see it your way – they have been taught differently We are all – products of our cultures I realize that about myself and deliberately choose to take my own ‘thought policed conditioning’ and check it at the door Why are you so afraid to look at another writing by the Apostille Peter or John – because you have been trained that it’s bad You told me that the Textus Recptus was the only inspired word – no it isn’t You told me the Kabbalah calls Jesus satan – no it doesn’t Most Christian’s think the Winter Solstices x-mas is about Jesus – no it isn’t Most Christians think the Spring Equinox is about the Resurrection – no it isn’t You think satan is one Cherub that is so powerful that he can create evil and challenge God No he isn’t – he is one of many players arrayed against us and all creation You are correct – we are to be concern with nothing but our own salvation! How do you do that following a list of duties and expectation Lists – of dos and don’tsChristians all spank Jews for following a Law Yet – when you exampne the Jewish perspective they are less concerned with being right or wrong – rather than exploring the depths of the scriptures. Every Jewish commentary say – Rabbi A says this, Rabbi B says something else, and Rabbi C from long ago said How very refreshing Talk Christianity – and all you get is I am righter than you syndrome Every has only One Way and they know it Christians use your list of dos and don’ts to judge one another Oh – he isn’t nice – he can’t be saved – he or she isn’t a true Christian because they do this or that STOP IT – judge not! By the same analogy – no one is Christian just because they live up to every definition you can list We are all called differently I wonder how many Christians are called one way or another by the Lord – but they are so busy being a good Catholic that didn’t have time to listen - Or they have a vocabulary problem Trained Christians will completely disregard a writing of Paul, John, James, or Peter just because they speak of the archon (don’t like the word – so throw it all away) – Yet when shown blatant errors in Mathew, Luke, or Acts – they let it slide – don’t have a problem with it. I’ll ask for training from above
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2019 15:28:11 GMT -5
I have to thank you Dave for spending so much time with me. We have shared dozens of comments over the months I have known you. We ponder confusion together. And after all our discussing, it is still confusing. You say your materials of Gnostic writings are for you. How do you know this? How do you know Simon Magnus didn't corrupt the early Church with his Greek and Babylonian ideas? How do we know the Jews who were captured in Babylon for years didn't get influenced by them. How do we know modern Jews together are not influenced by Greek ideas?
Where is the Holy Scriptures from GOD? It we can't agree on this topic, we don't even have a foundation to start from.
I have spent many hours reading your Gnostic material, and frankly it's not a reliable foundation for the Holy Scriptures at all. You say the Hebrew Scriptures was edited by Rome? I can't answer that question clearly. Certainly we would expect GOD to make sure His Holy Scriptures were preserved. Surely GOD can do this? So where would these Scriptures be? Wouldn't that be the "common received text", afterward didn't GOD want to save people all over the world? Not just those in Syria, with Coptic words? But all over the world? And when you find such texts, preserved by GOD, wouldn't those texts be preserved letter by letter mostly unchanged over the hundreds of years? Isn't that what the Hebrew and Greek is? Though I agree with you, not a single language is preserved... it's Hebrew OT and Greek NT... strange that GOD makes His own material confusing to readers... is this so others can also doubt? Most Gnostic material is Coptic as a language, am I correct? So this itself is a third language to consider?
This only adds to the confusion, not decreases the confusion. Personally I like to keep things simple. I find GOD is ordered, so I expect His Holy Scriptures to be ordered in a single language, not across three languages.
And this Bible text confirms my suspicion:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
The Hebrew tongue goes out in another tongue to the Gentiles. Thus the Hebrew tongue is the original tongue of Scripture.
You would disagree with this, because you quote Coptic words over the Hebrew words, and also add Greek words over the Hebrew words. But the Hebrew words were first.
The Jews do not read their own Hebrew OT words anymore, and add Greek ideas to their Hebrew words. and add Talmud words too. But I read and trust only the Hebrew words.
In Ezekiel 28 is a verse that says "cherub" "chata", thus an angel sinned in heaven. You agree these words are there, but you dismiss the words, you say its a metaphor, meaning the words do not mean what they say. A metaphor is a poetry comparison of one power with another. Thus King Tyre sinned before GOD, like King Cherub sinned before GOD. Who is this King Cherub? Scripture doesn't name the cherub, only giving it functional descriptors like serpent, devil, opponent, archon, etc. Does this fallen angel have an army of other fallen angels? Yes, Rev 12:9 says so.
I also showed you while GOD creates RA, He doesn't personally do RA. The RA is made manifest in a medium. That means the RA doesn't technically exist. In Science we label some images as real, because these images are made by real light rays, but other images are virtual because they are made by extending the real light rays into an imaginary world. This is Science defining how virtual rays make "ra" appear real to us. I have shown you the shadow experiment, you can easily do yourself, which explains that while GOD creates RA, God does not personally do RA. BUT you do not understand such experiments like these and the Science labels we put on explaining these shadows. So like you, I also like Science and use Science to explain things about GOD.
Dave: "We are all called differently.
Yes, I am bothered by this. Is it really possible for any Christian to agree with another Christian? I write to Jews who read Hebrew, but they don't follow the Hebrew, they say I am playing word games with their mother tongue, and so mock me. Is it possible for a person to read Hebrew without cultural bias? You speak everybody has Kabbalah, which is an oral cultural bias they bring to the Hebrew. Does it have to be that way? Can't we agree on Hebrew meanings of words, and the sentences these words exist in? Why we don't even agree on Greek meanings of words, like "kathestemi" remember? I wanted a single English word from you, you never gave me one. You just give me instead dozens of scholarship meanings, which I didn't ask for. I wanted a single English word for "kathestemi".
You agree with Jeff Benner that "bara" in Hebrew means to "fatten". I have seen you use this meaning a few times in our discussions. It's OK. Jeff makes this his meaning. But I don't agree this is the meaning. It doesn't fit all the sentences the word is found in.
Jos 17:15 And Joshua answered them, If thou be a great people, then get thee up to the wood country, and cut down "Bara" for thyself there in the land of the Perizzites and of the giants, if mount Ephraim be too narrow for thee. 16 And the children of Joseph said, The hill is not enough for us: and all the Canaanites that dwell in the land of the valley have chariots of iron, both they who are of Bethshean and her towns, and they who are of the valley of Jezreel. 17 And Joshua spake unto the house of Joseph, even to Ephraim and to Manasseh, saying, Thou art a great people, and hast great power: thou shalt not have one lot only: 18 But the mountain shall be thine; for it is a wood, and thou shalt cut it down "Bara": and the outgoings of it shall be thine: for thou shalt drive out the Canaanites, though they have iron chariots, and though they be strong. (KJV)
This context is strange?
1Sa 2:29 Wherefore kick ye at my sacrifice and at mine offering, which I have commanded in my habitation; and honourest thy sons above me, to make yourselves fat "Bara" with the chiefest of all the offerings of Israel my people?
This context agrees with your meaning "fat"
Ps 51:10 Create "Bara" in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
This context is strange?
I like the term "engineer" , you can go into the forest and "engineer" things from wood, you can "engineer" offerings to look different, cut them to look fat, you can pray to GOD to engineer a character change in your heart.
Some would say GOD creates out of nothing?
Hab 3:4 And his brightness was as the light; he had horns coming out of his hand: and there was the hiding of his power.
This Hebrew word used only once, says something came out of Jesus hand during the creation of the universe. So not out of nothing. Engineer means to use matter to make things.
SO yes I find it very strange that not a single person have I ever found who agrees with me on the Hebrew. Jeff Benner is perhaps my closest friend on this idea. But He doesn't follow every conviction he presents in his research. He has to sway Jewish scholars, so swings a bit to accommodate their interests and feelings too. That's OK I guess. Paul often did similar things to win over different cultures. As you say, we all think differently. And I don't see this as a problem, within reason and limits of Hebrew doctrines. It's OK to see things differently, as long its not a major shift.
Dave: "I’ll ask for training from above
I too pray for this.
However perhaps you can help me. I have an SDA friend who says "Mother" is a place like heaven, or a city like Jerusalem. He does not see Mother as a Being in the Godhead. He only reads KJV translation as it reads. Doesn't like any other source of material. How do I get him to see the Holy Spirit with mother like functions?
Ga 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Here Paul writes a metaphor (allegory?) what is He saying here?
Where are the clearest texts that speak of the Holy Spirit as a mother like Being?
Shalom my friend
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Post by Dave on Dec 27, 2019 7:12:14 GMT -5
The time I spend discussing the Lord is valuable to me – Thank you
Why am I drawn to the Nag Hammadi? 1- pretty disgusted with Rome – its edit – its care of the written word 2- Why did “organized “ (meaning man-centered / man-controlled church) have to stamp out and kill all the independent small groups – to maintain it dominance? 3- The Gospel say – Love one another and Seek the Kingdom – Rome has always said – Bow to me or I will kill you 4- you told me you came to the Lord a long time ago – yet do not understand praying in the spirit – why not? Why don’t Christian church churn out Christians? – because Rome’s edit leaves Christianity with only ½ the truth 5- The legacy of the Roman religion is doubt – “If there is a God – he is weak or does not care” 6- Why are churches becoming less full? Why are governments moving away from Judeo-Christian principles? Why does “8th Grade Science” trump Scripture? 7- If Rom 1:20 and Psa 19:1 are correct, then why cannot a modern Christian engage in an intelligent “Real world debate?”
Feel Good Christianity (God is only tov) is an empty message - it results in The legacy of the Roman religion which is doubt
I remember how excited my parents were with the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls 100% Validation of Isaiah (1961 – First grade) The church topic for months – then nothing Why was nothing more to be shared – because it supports a Christian View, the War scroll is 100% Gnostic, and the Zadakines were a UFO contact group – they communicated with angels that flew in murmuring chariots that dart about at right angels
My own experience – left me seeking answers – I sought Christianity, but the more you study the subject the more you realize that Roman religion is an empty message. 30 years ago I was told – give it to the Lord. Rom 8:28 / 20 years ago I was told – give it to the Lord Rom 8:28 / 10 years ago I was told – give it to the Lord. Rom 8:28 – so I did – and I had to walk away from churchianity
I feel called out of it – what does that mean? I take my kids to Sun day school for the experience. I have tried to sit and keep my mouth shut – but eventually cannot – and my church experience always goes the same way 1- I question something and it leads to a pre canned study that the pastor is well versed in 2- But, I do not asked pre canned questions and take the study into a zone – the pastor will not go 3- If you do not agree with the pastor – you just have to leave (Christian Love)
I was serving on a church board when one of our members said she saw something evil I was crushed inside – was I ready – he it is real spiritual warfare The Pastor recommended she see a conciliar – WHT – do we believe scripture or not?
End Times – my Dad was crazy about Y2K – How many others are crazy about 1948 and the Fig Tree I remember the 1988 movement, the Y2K movement, Harold Camp and 11/11/2011, and even 12/22/2012
I don’t know what to think of all that – but I do ‘believe’ Western White Roman Christendom Culture is soon entering a tremendous ‘Tribulation’ – a downsizing of global population
In nature – organisms grow logarithmically until they over grow their recourses which is always followed by – a death phase, a massive die off
Massive Elk and Deer herds suffer a 50% kill in long cold winters The Inca’s numbered in the millions – 15 years of drought later they were gone
Our current system is beyond the carrying capacity of our planet – when the system breaks – look out I believe that in America – 30 days of no food or water – would result in only 10% alive at the end of 90 days – they will either starve or kill one another over the last slice of bread
1948 Israel / 1947 Dead Sea Scrolls / 1945 Nag Hammadi and Hiroshima 4 of the 13 book of the Nag Hammadi all say – to be hidden until the generation of the end of days The Nag Hammdi has multiple things within it – but I am drawn to the authors of the agl John, James, Peter, Phillip, and even Thomas – all conversations post resurrection
You are correct your view of scripture is much different then mine You began by say true scripture is only the Texus Receptus by Roman Bishop Erasmus You also declared that only Hebrew matters – yet the Textus receptus is of Greek Septuagint origin You also declare the agl was originally Hebrew – therefore we must add another layer of translation error and bias as we translate it back into Hebrew –
For me – Rom 1:20 and Psa 19:1 is only the beginning of what I consider scripture Jews and Catholics think that the Creator of the entire multi-verse is only concerned with their 1% - how arrogant – how selfish and self-centered The Creator created the 100% and 100% of it must point back to Him!
Unless you are referring to thise section I deliberately posted here – I have no idea what you have been reading other than Pits Sophia and Simon Magus – neither of which has any relevance
Second or third – The Copts never translated anything – their canon is very old. But you over look that the agl is a composite of 100s of manuscripts in their 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, or more versions – not completely sorted out until 1859 The older the text the better – and the nag Hammadi has been untouched since the 2nd century from a group of First Christians who were Jewish Christians
But your theology is not wholistic – your inability to engage your UFO neighbor is a perfect example. How many time do you go around questioning data – Roman records are fake – Egyptian records are fake – science that validated God is fake –
When I asked you to watch the David Ike video – you said,” You could see no theology in it!”
Wonder why people think you play word games So you are saying that Hebrew was first – agreed The Hebrew tongue goes out in another tongue to the Gentiles – agreed – Greek Thus the Hebrew tongue is the original tongue of Scripture. – agreed of the ahl – which was first You would disagree with this, because you quote Coptic words – Usually I speak English – and I speak in themes to eliminate your types of word confusions – if you fail to grasp the meaning of a verse what is the use of arguing vocabulary?
Christ is a branch – why isn’t Jesus a wooden stick? Christ is the fruit – is he juicy inside and have seeds But Exk 28 says Cherub so to hell with the rest of the Tanak
Salvation is not about the correct vocabulary – it is about gnosis of the Creator through the HS
Have you read the Book of Acts? Peter and James disagreed with Paul! Churchians will never agree because they argue details Christians will agree in spirit
You do play vocabulary games – The Jewish Kabbalah and Christian understanding comes from EXPLORING the depth of meaning You want to quash the depth by forcing everything into one word definitions
NO – or any language. We close on information within the framework of our cultural, and educational experiences – this is how biological Mind-Body works
Correct – Kabbalah is to Hebrew as Commentary is the Christianity
Question - Christian Commentary – is not scripture, but is a discussion of scripture. Adam Clark or Calvin can write a volume of information about the smallest of verses – this is their opinions voiced in a Commentary – agree?
Each Commentary expresses their authors opinions – their own personal views – their own personal Kabbalah – I have one – you have one – your Kabbalah is different that your wife’s
In Christianity – we each have several of our favorite Christian Commentaries on the reference shelf of our libraries – You quote Adam Clark – I use and have used several myself Question - In Christianity – is there anything wrong with reading a Commentary?
In Judaism – they have the Kabbalah – it is a collection of many different rabbinic opinions. It is a collection of many different Rabbinic Commentaries – why is this WRONG? How can this be WRONG?
Why – from your ‘christian training’ do you / did you think the word Kabbalah means demonic witchcraft Rome – that’s why
Cool – tell you why this is important to me. Gen 1:1 God “fattened” into the heavens and Earth – meaning God is absolute – He is the E of E=mc2 If God engineered creation then comes the question – something from nothing I do not ‘believe’ in something from nothing – I believe everything from God – because everything is God because the HS = the medium /matrix / ether that everything is built upon 1st step in creation = expansion – a fattening
Jos 17:15 (YLT) And Joshua saith unto them, 'If thou art a numerous people, go up for thee to the forest, then thou hast prepared for thee there, in the land of the Perizzite, and of the Rephaim, when mount Ephraim hath been narrow for thee.'
Jos 17:18 (YLT) because the mountain is thine; because it is a forest—thou hast prepared it, and its outgoings have been thine; because thou dost dispossess the Canaanite, though it hath chariots of iron—though it is strong.'
The people fattened themselves there – established themselves there – they just did go there and visit or camp overnight – they fattened themselves there
‘Cut down’ - KJV
Vrs 15 – there is a grammatical comma between the location and the order to bara Why must bara be associated with the location and not with the “thee”
Look at (KJV) Jos 17:18 But the mountain shall be thine; for it is a wood, and thou shalt cut it down: it is a wood, (and thou shalt cut it down:H1254) It is a wooded mountain – agreed – then a grammatical comma – and the entire phrase cut it down is just one word bara The mountain is theirs – it is a wooded mountain - and anything they build for themselves there is theirs to keep
Most people see more depth in the meanings than just a single one word single one dimensional view
I have not been in the Book of Galatians for a long time – I dislike Paul – he adds to confusion – Peter and James both agree with me
BUT – as I read over this section Gal 4:21-31 – I cannot help see ISLAM - IMO Sarah vrs Hagar – Isaac vrs Ishmael – children born of flesh (Mind-Body) vrs children born of spirit (Soul) For 1870 years Jerusalem was in Islamic Palestine Gal 4:26 = Christianity – spiritual connection – born again Christians – the Bride of Christ
Muslims = children born of flesh because their religion grant carnal please to the men who follow Allah – multiple wives – infidelity – child rape – rape in general – if your wife pisses you off you can sell her as property or just kill her – and if you do it in the name of Allah you will receive 72 mansions with a virgin whore in each
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Post by Dave on Dec 27, 2019 13:00:09 GMT -5
The Womb of Creation – GnosticThe Apocryphon of John - The Nag Hammadi LibraryI was afraid, and behold I saw in the light a youth who stood by me. While I looked at him, he became like an old man. And he changed his likeness (again), becoming like a servant. There was not a plurality before me, but there was a likeness with multiple forms in the light, and the likenesses appeared through each other, and the likeness had three forms.
He said to me, "John, John, why do you doubt, or why are you afraid? You are not unfamiliar with this image, are you? - that is, do not be timid! - I am the one who is with you (pl.) always. I am the Father, I am the Mother, I am the Son. I am the undefiled and incorruptible one.
The Trinity " And his thought performed a deed and she came forth, namely she who had appeared before him in the shine of his light. This is the first power which was before all of them (and) which came forth from his mind, She is the forethought of the All - her light shines like his light - the perfect power which is the image of the invisible, virginal Spirit who is perfect. The first power, the glory of Barbelo, the perfect glory in the aeons, the glory of the revelation, she glorified the virginal Spirit and it was she who praised him, because thanks to him she had come forth. This is the first thought, his image; she became the womb of everything, for it is she who is prior to them all, the Mother-Father, the first man, the holy Spirit, the thrice-male, the thrice-powerful, the thrice-named androgynous one, and the eternal aeon among the invisible ones, and the first to come forth.The Gospel of the Egyptians - The Nag Hammadi LibraryFrom that place, the three powers came forth, the three ogdoads that the Father brings forth in silence with his providence, from his bosom, i.e., the Father, the Mother, (and) the Son. The <first> ogdoad, because of which the thrice-male child came forth, which is the thought, and the word, and the incorruption, and the eternal life, the will, the mind, and the foreknowledge, the androgynous Father. The second ogdoad-power, the Mother, the virginal Barbelon, epititioch[...]ai, memeneaimen[...], who presides over the heaven, karb[...], the uninterpretable power, the ineffable Mother. She originated from herself [...]; she came forth; she agreed with the Father of the silent silence. The third ogdoad-power, the Son The (First) Apocalypse of James - The Nag Hammadi LibrarySince you have asked concerning femaleness, femaleness existed, but femaleness was not first. And it prepared for itself powers and gods. But it did not exist when I came forth, since I am an image of Him-who-is. The Womb of Creation - Kabbalahwww.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/137085/jewish/Mem.htmMem - The thirteenth letter of the Hebrew alphabet There are two forms of the mem: the open mem and the closed mem. As the Talmud explains,1 the open mem represents the revealed Torah and the closed mem represents the Torah’s secrets. The AriZal states:2 “It is a mitzvah to reveal the secrets of Torah.” Being that we now find ourselves in the Messianic era, it is not just permitted, it is an obligation to experience a foretaste of the teachings of Mashiach, which are the secrets of the Torah. This level of Torah is represented by the closed mem. … Torah is also compared to water because water travels unaltered from the top of a mountain to its lower tiers and valleys. So did G‑d bring down the same deep, intellectual Torah He had in heaven to the physical world. The Zohar says that G‑d looked into the Torah to create the world. The Torah serves as a blueprint for Creation. The wealth and strength of its water carves, and continues to carve out the foundation of the entire world. … The mem also represents the womb. In essence, water is the womb of Creation. The Torah begins,19 “In the beginning G‑d created the heavens and the earth.” The next verse states that before G‑d created the heavens and the earth “...the spirit of G‑d hovered over the waters.”20 What waters? Since the earth’s waters had not yet been created, the waters mentioned here are the womb from which Creation emerged, the place of gestation before the world came into existence.
Mikveh embodies this concept as well. When one immerses in a mikveh, it is similar to entering the womb of Creation, a state of the world yet unborn. At the moment when the person emerges, he or she is reborn. On a more practical level, the individual submerged in a mikveh is in a medium where he or she can’t survive and will ultimately die. When the individual emerges from the water, he or she is renewed.21 The word mikveh also begins with the letter mem.22 It states in Isaiah:23 “L’marbei hamisra u’leshalom,” which means, “His rule (i.e., the kingship of Mashiach) will increase and be blessed with peace without end.” Throughout the entire Torah, the final form of the mem appears in the middle of a word only once—here, in the word לםרבה, l’marbei. What is the significance of this? That Mashiach will bring closure to the exile. We discussed earlier that the three lines of the letter beis—two horizontal and one vertical—represent three directions (or corners) of the earth. The north side, that which is open to evil, remains unresolved. With the arrival of Mashiach, the fourth side of the beis of Bereishis—Creation—is completed and the letter beis is transformed into a mem.24 And the emergence of this form of the mem in turn facilitates the consummation of its very own design, whereby the closed mem—the hidden or secret aspects of Torah—takes the place of the open mem, the revealed aspects of the Torah. For along with the everlasting peace of Mashiach will come the explanation of the reasons for the exile, and the pain and suffering of the Jewish people that accompanied it. The Womb of Creation Christian - John 1:1-4 Col 1:16 – everything created is by the Trinity Kabbalah recap - water is the womb of Creation Gnostic recap – Trinity – unknowable father – His male image Christ and the first product of creation the omnipresent expansion = HS (female) – the matrix / the ether the medium – therefore the base construct for everything Science – omnipresent expansion – as in electromagnetic spectrum – the vibrations that everything is built upon and is sustained through Hmmmm? The Womb is a location – it represents safety and closeness to God – why Psalm 139:13-16, Jeremiah 1:5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 15:53:06 GMT -5
Why am I drawn to the Nag Hammadi?
Thank you for this share. It makes sense.
I am drawn to the Ancient Hebrew, within the Bible Hebrew, for the same reason, to avoid the Roman edit. Jeff Benner presents this Ancient Hebrew,preserved inside the Biblical Hebrew.
On Jewish forums, not a single Jew admits such Ancient Hebrew exists in Biblical Hebrew, or that Moses wrote paleo-Hebrew.
Yeah I remember attending Churches on Sunday, lasted three weeks, ask too many questions Priest didn't know, too passionate from Scripture... you writing is sooooo correct about this.
You are correct your view of scripture is much different then mine You began by say true scripture is only the Texus Receptus by Roman Bishop Erasmus You also declared that only Hebrew matters – yet the Textus receptus is of Greek Septuagint origin
True we see things differently. I battle with "Textus receptus is of Greek Septuagint origin" yes, but I bring it back to Hebrew words, than read the text.
I can't do that with Coptic writings, they would have to be electronically placed in Interlinear Applications, and right now they arn't, so I can't use them or test them. Testing the KJV Hebrew and Greek is much easier, hence why I use it. Reading Coptic translations is step backwards, I read Greek and Hebrew Bible in that language first, than English. Reading Gnostic writings via a translation is a terrible way to read, because your trusting the translator with the Coptic words. One thing Rome Edit has tauguht me, I do not trust translators much with the words.
Second or third – The Copts never translated anything – their canon is very old. But you over look that the agl is a composite of 100s of manuscripts in their 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, or more versions – not completely sorted out until 1859 The older the text the better – and the nag Hammadi has been untouched
Ancient Hebrew is also older than Coptic text, also untouched even to the day. Most of it lies untouched still inside the Bible Hebrew. That's why I read more OT than NT, its a bunch of words I trust came from writers with inspired messages. The NT is already a translation , a good translation perhaps?
But your theology is not wholistic – your inability to engage your UFO neighbor is a perfect example.
Arrh my neighbor sees Rome as examples of Christian practice. hence he hates Christianity. See the Rome Edit problem. Rome is no more Christian than Muslim is, but both may have "saved people" in them, I am referring to the system, not individual people. My neighbor sees Rome as religious Christianity. He sees hypocrisy in all major religions.
But your theology is not wholistic -
So your idea is the UFO is part of GOD designs, from archons GOD created, to test humans? I don't think this would help.... as that good and bad comes from GOD would not help people either...
So if a person dies in a car crash, and now is in heaven, it's part of GOD's plan, the test for him is over, so this is your wholistic approach? God planned the crash, though archons did the crashing, God tested the person and now he's in heaven? Sorry I don't like this concept of love combined with evil...
Remember the shadow experiment, you never made any comments about it? God doesn't personally do Ra, even though GOD creates RA, so people have ways to see themselves in their RA.
Wonder why people think you play word games
Words are important. Words have power. People assume words in a language have multiple meanings.... that's silly. They don't. Even polysemy words are used consistently in the contexts that make them. Even word in any language has a single basic meaning. Some words like polysemy words also have single basic meanings, but their meanings only are derived from context.
Most languages have few polysmeous words.
My elecronic Bible also has martin Luthers translation of the Hebrew. SO iif I read his German words, they match the hebrew words one for one every time, across all the sentences. Martin Luther is a brilliant example of words in translation. Translators do not translate like that anymore.
Jeff Benner is another translator just like Martin Luther.
Such translators are rare, because they are truthful, the others are false / ignorant prophets. The KJV wanted a SOUND bible rather than a READ bible, because most common people could not read. But it's still the best faithful translation of the Hebrew words, there is.
Have you read the Book of Acts? Peter and James disagreed with Paul! Churchians will never agree because they argue details Christians will agree in spirit
The early Chrsitians were Jews, struggling what to do with covenant doings in Scritpure, like circumcision, etc. Paul was not anti-torah, he was against legalism.
What does legalism mean to you?
You do play vocabulary games – The Jewish Kabbalah and Christian understanding comes from EXPLORING the depth of meaning You want to quash the depth by forcing everything into one word definitions
Yes but that is how WORDS are. They have single basic meanings, first, and depth of meaings in a sentence later. Jews make malak mean angel, when it means messenger. Cherub means angel, but they refuse to see this? Why is this? Words have to have consistent meanings... otherwise all sentences mean whatever...
Rob: "Is it possible for a person to read Hebrew without cultural bias? Dave: " NO – or any language.
Rob : "The answer has to be YES.
Reading the meaning of a WORD from a language, does not involve culture. A computer could read all the sentences, and render the WORD into a single basic meaning in English for example. Culture is not required, as this is just a process using all the facts you have.
This process does not work if the word does not much context associated with it, though.
Like a word I invented in a poem I wrote at age 16 "raiplets", what does it mean? You wouldn't know. But if I showed you the context you might guess the meaning.
"Along the branches of the tree the rain falls off each twig holding the tiny droplets like little raiplets. Like diamonds the fall, sparkling in the sun"
Correct – Kabbalah is to Hebrew as Commentary is the Christianity
OK I buy that. Looking up word meanings of words, though does not require kabbalah. Using a dictionary does not help either, because Bible hebrew is rendered only by the Bible sentences.
I do not ‘believe’ in something from nothing – I believe everything from God – because everything is God because the HS = the medium /matrix / ether that everything is built upon 1st step in creation = expansion – a fattening
I can accept your idea of bara to mean fatten...
Ps 51:10 Fatten in me a clean heart, second birth process Does this make sense? no
Most people see more depth in the meanings than just a single one word single one dimensional view
yes, but we must begin with the Word first, than the sentence its in later. People assume too much and go quickly in their thinking.
Muslims = children born of flesh because their religion grant carnal please to the men who follow Allah – multiple wives – infidelity – child rape – rape in general – if your wife pisses you off you can sell her as property or just kill her – and if you do it in the name of Allah you will receive 72 mansions with a virgin whore in each
Interesting
The Womb of Creation – Gnostic
I do not like this idea, where its heading...
she became the womb of everything, for it is she who is prior to them all, the Mother-Father
No, doesn't this lead to pantheism?
the waters mentioned here are the womb from which Creation emerged, the place of gestation before the world came into existence.
No, I don't like this idea.... your Gostic texts push too much of an extreme, I don't like.
Do any Gnostic texts speak of the Holy Spirit as a goddess as well? What is your idea of pantheism?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 27, 2019 23:23:43 GMT -5
So you start with a base text that is no longer accepted as adequate then you add another layer of amature translation on top of it to make things clear – Sound too complicated – I’ll just stick to the original text – the older the better
Why isn’t the Messianic OT, the Catholic OT, and the Tanak the same?
You make my point. Why can’t you discuss your Creator without relying on an endless list of Catholic talking points?
– Where do you get these wild ideas? Not from me! Is it part of God’s plan? Who knows Did God plan the crash? – only if it served God’s purpose = otherwise it might just be an accident The archon’s did the crashing – What? – where do you get these ideas? God tested that person – who knows? – The test may not be theirs – it might be yours If you misrepresent the cosmology – of course it doesn’t fly
The KJV has 16 verses that do not exist in any other text – these are additions that bastarsize the text – no modern translation is based upon the Textus Receptus
The language you think in determines much of your understanding – the culture you are from help you understand themes and trends – even the meaning of words – the education you have received impact every though process or decision made with your pychy
Everything you input is translated into white man Australian – you cannot help it You understanding of the Jewish faith is an example – you do not think like a Jew and you argue they should think like you
It makes sense if you let it We are born with a Soul that was in full awareness of God before our conception We were taught the Torah by God in the Womb We were born with a clean heart – it was always there – it just needs to be fattened / enlarged
What? – I really do not follow your reasoning When do you say the Holy Spirit was created – day 7 when God is still making Toxic plants? If the Creator has a Spirit – you say this is pantheism? I really do not understand you
YEP! – She is also called the Shekhinah, the Glory of God, the Mother of the All, the Womb of Creation, the Comforter, and the teacher What is your point?
Christ is called God, the Son of God, the Son of Man, the Saviour, the Messiah, the one - is this pantheism?
Multiple ‘other gods’ each with their own specialty. God of war, god of music, god of fertility – basically the entire hierarchy of the archon
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2019 15:04:47 GMT -5
I’ll just stick to the original text – the older the better
What original text? You say the OT Christians have is not the same as the Jewish OT. Really? How much is changed? Take for example Genesis OT Hebrew Christian version, how much different it this version from the Jewish OT Hebrew version? As for additional books, that is another matter. Do we need them? Perhaps. I find too much material already.
We need Jesus, not more tanak or more talmud or more books.
Your so called original text is not electroncially packaged with Interlinear English, so I read it in the original language.
Rob: Ancient Hebrew is also older than Coptic text, also untouched even to the day.
Dave: "Why isn’t the Messianic OT, the Catholic OT, and the Tanak the same?
Rob: you didn't acknowledge my statement? Ancient Hebrew is also older than Coptic text, also untouched even to the day
Dave: "Why isn’t the Messianic OT, the Catholic OT, and the Tanak the same?
Really? Take for example Hosea OT Hebrew Christian version, how much different it this version from the Jewish OT Hebrew version? This is my faviourite book in the Hebrew OT.
Rob: "So if a person dies in a car crash, and now is in heaven, it's part of GOD's plan, the test for him is over, so this is your wholistic approach? God planned the crash, though archons did the crashing, God tested the person and now he's in heaven? Sorry I don't like this concept of love combined with evil... Dave: "– Where do you get these wild ideas? Not from me! Is it part of God’s plan? Who knows Did God plan the crash? – only if it served God’s purpose = otherwise it might just be an accident The archon’s did the crashing – What? – where do you get these ideas? God tested that person – who knows? – The test may not be theirs – it might be yours If you misrepresent the cosmology – of course it doesn’t fly
Now you have confused me? I thought you said the archons do all the RA on humans? And that GOD designed the Archons to test humans? SO that makes GOD a designer of bad things happening to people?
Please explain.
My theory of faith says GOD does NOT do RA. Bad people do RA. Fallen angels do RA, one chief fallen angel functions as a chief opponent, because he sinned first before GOD. All the bad things done on humans can come from humans doiing bad, or from fallen angels making sure humans do bad. God only engineers the existence of the bad in His world of love, so humans can see what we are doing. God does not personally do bad, neither has anything much over the fallen angels. However from stories of Baalim and Job, GOD places limits on their bad, so GOD is fully in control, even though He must allow these fallen angels to exist in their own kingdom, doing as they please. Its not a great test, its a great contraversy. Though individually some of us are tested, as with Job.
The KJV has 16 verses that do not exist in any other text
Details please.
The language you think in determines much of your understanding – the culture you are from help you understand themes and trends – even the meaning of words
No, otherwise people could not decifer words from unknown languages. Its just a science process, based on sentences of context.
For example Ancient Egyptian words were decifered when the Rosetta Stone was found.
If I had elecronic verision of Coptic Bible with Interlinear english, next to every word, I could render each Coptic word, as long as many sentences of context existed for each Coptic word. No need to understand culture. Its just a decify process, like decoding a strange code.
Our maths teacher used to write lots of sentences of code on the blackboard, and we pupils would decify the message. Breaking code. As long as the code was following more or less, standard rules of writing words, ie "noun-verb-noun" etc, it was easy to break the code. The further removed the code is from standard rules the harder decoding became.
Rob: "Ps 51:10 Fatten in me a clean heart, second birth process Does this make sense? No
Dave: "It makes sense if you let it We are born with a Soul that was in full awareness of God before our conception We were taught the Torah by God in the Womb We were born with a clean heart – it was always there – it just needs to be fattened / enlarged
Nice try, but this leads to the idea the second birth is only about expanding the soul you have already, to gnosis the knowledge you are already TOV before GOD, just stop doing the RA, since you have this idea that humans are born with both Tov and Ra in us from a design of GOD. That makes sense for you. I get that.
But if humans are born with corrupt DNA, and propensities to do RA, but each baby is born fully TOV, the RA in us develops from rulers ruling over us, even before we are born. Thus for ordinary humans we are born sinning with RA, because we have fallen angels making us develop those propensities of Ra found inside our DNA, inheritied from our parents.
Some can claim under the Nazarene Vow, that the Holy Spirit rules over the fetus from birth, so we are born fully TOV, and thus these children are born without sinning. If they choose to sin, than the RA propensties grow and awaken from the DNA inside them, but they have to walk away wilfully from GOD. Samson, Samuel and Jesus, and even John the Baptist were humans like these, in the Bible.
SO the second birth is an engineering change, to remove each propensity of RA and restore the DNA to its uncorrupted state. This is done gradually, so as to not destroy the you, that makes you daily as you are.
Thus fatten and development is OK, but not quite the same as engineer and development. The second birth is not about just fattening the gnosis of Jesus we need to know... its about asking Jesus daily to engineer us and change us to be fully TOV, remove the propensities of RA.
1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
There are plenty of other passages which develop a correct theme of this battle, you seem to ignore.
Notice these texts here. "the devil sinneth from the beginning." Which devil ? which beginning? Before creation of earth.
JOhn is saying we are either of two camps, sinning with devil, or not sinning with GOD. If you have Jesus in your life, the sinning stops. wow. What a statment this is. "his seed remaineth in him" what does this mean? same as this "kiss the grain" in Psalm 2.
Rob; "The Womb of Creation – Gnostic I do not like this idea, where its heading... she became the womb of everything, for it is she who is prior to them all, the Mother-Father No, doesn't this lead to pantheism?
Dave: "What? – I really do not follow your reasoning When do you say the Holy Spirit was created – day 7 when God is still making Toxic plants? If the Creator has a Spirit – you say this is pantheism? I really do not understand you
And I don't undrstand you. There is no Hebrew word for "womb" anyway. The Holy Spirit doesn't have a womb.
The Hebrew word has two forms, the verb form means "compassion", the noun form must mean something similar, ie "compassion-centre". The KJV is nice, "matrix".
What flows from the Holy Spirit is the compassion of GOD, the mercy and kindness that is developed, not something physical we term as a womb. God is not of matter, time or space, so the "womb" is not the correct picture we are putting in this Bible picture about the Holy Spirit.
Nicodemus thought we must enter a mother a second time, in the womb... jesus didn't say yes or no, he spoke of the Holy Spirit as the means of the second birth.
Does the Holy Spirit function as a simile of the womb, perhaps ?, but more importantly the compassion centre, where the engineering process of redeveloping your character, functions simile as a baby is developed, but not the same, as earthly think as a womb.
We are born once from the womb.
With the Holy Spirit from the compassion centre, the second birth is a daily experience, not a one off event. So clearly a womb picture like humans think is wrong. It's not like that, but the functions are similes. That is what I am saying...
Rob; "Do any Gnostic texts speak of the Holy Spirit as a goddess as well? Dave: "YEP! – She is also called the Shekhinah, the Glory of God, the Mother of the All, the Womb of Creation, the Comforter, and the teacher What is your point?
Well that's wrong. The family of GOD, ie elohiym is not three gods. This concept is wrong. Elohiym is a single source of love, not three sources of love. There is not such thing as self-love.
Jer 7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. 19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?
The Bible clearly does not like a Holy Spirit reference to the Queen of Heaven. The Father is no King of heaven either. No text for this either, yet Jews say in talmud the Father is King? Jesus is the only King mentioned in Scripture. A king has to be the same as the creatures he rules over. Jesus is human as the humans he is king over.
What is your idea of pantheism? Multiple ‘other gods’ each with their own specialty.
Elohiym is not three gods with speciality, but aspects of love that become a single source of love. as Jeff writes "elohiym powers", meaning one flow of power.
Gordon the Jew sees elohiym as one god, and does not like multiply gods, but he does not understand the family picture of GOD in the NT Eph 3:15,16
He see family as three Gods, that is not Hebrew thinking, that is Greek thinking. He is confused.
Le 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.
How many Beings are written here, two or one? The answer is one. Strange hey? but that is Hebrew thinking. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 28, 2019 19:34:58 GMT -5
Seriously – I posted a link on this forum so you could buy your own Pocket Tanak From a Jewish web-site (imagine that) 2 minute google search came up with this: forums.catholic.com/t/tanakh/393270Question – Tanakh- Does anyone use this i believe it claims to be the original Hebrew text of the OT.(I love this Catholic answer!)The problem with the Tanakh (AKA the Masoretic Text, or Hebrew Canon) is that there is nothing authoritative whatsoever about it. There is no Hebrew (Jewish) Church with any authority to declare anything canonical. There never has been any such authority. The Jewish Faith has never had (and still does not have) any sort of authority which would be recognizable to any Catholic.The Tanakh represents (at best) a consensus of many Sixth-Century Jewish Rabbis about what the Canon of the Hebrews ought to be. It is not, in any way, shape, or form, what the actual Canon of the Hebrews actually IS, because there is no Hebrew authority which can make that claim. And there never has been. (Then he says)Jesus gave the Catholic Church actual AUTHORITY (Matt 16:18). The Catholic Church can actually DEFINE the Canon of Scripture.(Only Rome can define Jewish Canon – seems a little arrogant to me – but you seem to accept this as true Mr. Greek Textus Receptus guy) Is the Catholic Bible the same as the Jewish Bible? www.quora.com/Is-the-Catholic-Bible-the-same-as-the-Jewish-BibleMichael DeMartino, Researcher of Judaism. Both under Rabbis and independently. Answered Jul 23, 2017 · Author has 750 answers and 828k answer views The Jews reject the Old Testament of the Christian Bible versions as incomplete and mistranslated. There are a series of notable mistranslations which exist in the Christian versions of the Old Testament. They are actually pretty blaring when you hold them up to scrutiny. The Torah is a series of two partner documents which are presented as a single document. The Written Torah and The Oral Torah refer to two different bodies of works which are partnered together with the same document. What would be in a Christian Old Testament is a version of the Written Torah. The other half of that document is referred to as the Oral Torah. It’s the document which explains all of the details and exercises of Jewish ritual commanded in the Torah. The vowel system which allows us to read the Written Torah, that comes from the Oral Torah. You would have never been able to understand what the Written Torah was actually expressing without the Oral Torah.www.quora.com/Is-the-Catholic-Bible-the-same-as-the-Jewish-BibleRandy Kemp, Knowledgeable about Abrahamic religions. Answered Jul 23, 2017 · Author has 1.4k answers and 530.5k answer views No. The Jewish “Bible” is called the Torah, and doesn’t contain the New Testament, as Jews do not believe Jesus (alayhi salaam) was the Messiah/Son of God. Further, throughout Christianity, there have been many different translations of the Tanakh and NT. One must also keep in mind “The Bible” is simply a collection of prophetic works originally compiled by the Catholic Church (prior to Protestantism) via consensus of what was then Christendom.There have also been both intentional and unintentional corruptions of both the NT and Tanakh by scribes over the centuries. www.quora.com/Is-the-Catholic-Bible-the-same-as-the-Jewish-BibleJames Hough, Catholic who teaches Catechism, RCIA, and Prayer classes. Answered Jul 23, 2017 · Author has 14.3k answers and 3.7m answer views The Catholic Old Testament is the Septuagint, which was the Greek translation of the Jewish Bible used through the world for a couple centuries up through the time of Christ. The current Jewish Bible is called the Masoretic text which was formed by the Jews in the 7th through 10th centuries after Christ, which eliminated the Deuterocanon of the Septuagint. forums.catholic.com/t/tanakh/393270Question – Tanakh- Does anyone use this i believe it claims to be the original Hebrew text of the OT. Some Christians seem permanently confused about Judaism - as if all we’ve been doing for the past couple of millennia has been to make up excuses for not believing in Jesus. forums.catholic.com/t/tanakh/393270Question – Tanakh- Does anyone use this i believe it claims to be the original Hebrew text of the OT. While our scriptures have a context for Christians, it’s a mistake to think that Judaism is, somehow, Christianity minus Jesus, it isn’t. It’s a very different religion. To Christians, what you call the Old Testament is really prophesies and setting the stage for the arrival of your Saviour and your scriptures. In Judaism, however, everything centres on the first five books of the Tanakh - the Torah, the Law. Everything else - the rest of the Tanakh (Prophets and the Writings), then what we call ‘Oral Torah’ and writings/discussions even to this day could be described as being about Torah. Taking away the technical language, it could be described as endless discussions about how to live ethical monotheism. In other words the two religions have a different focus and ‘work’ quite differently - they could be said to be about rather different things - one religion could be described as more concerned with ‘orthodoxy’/correct belief while the other is more concerned with ‘orthopraxy’/correct action. Certainly, the preoccupations of one are not the preoccupations of the other. ………… http://www. jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/11683-old-testament BIBLE CANON: (Redirected from OLD TESTAMENT.) Meaning and Scope. The Greek word κανών, meaning primarily a straight rod, and derivatively a norm or law, was first applied by the church fathers (not earlier than 360) to the collection of Holy Scriptures, and primarily to those of the so-called Old Testament (Credner, "Zur Gesch. des Canons," pp. 58-68). But although the older Jewish literature has no such designation for the Biblical books, and it is doubtful whether the word was ever included in the rabbinical vocabulary, it is quite certain that the idea expressed by the designation "canonical writings" (γραΦαὶ κανονικαί), both as including and as excluding certain books, is of Jewish origin. The designation "Apocrypha" affords a parallel instance: the word is Greek; the conception is Jewish (compare the words "Genuzim," "Genizah"). Designations. The oldest and most frequent designation for the whole collection of Biblical writings is V03p140001.jpg, "Books." This word, which in Dan. ix. 2 means all the sacred writings, occurs frequently in the Mishnah, as well as in traditional literature, without closer definition. The expression V03p140002.jpg ("Holy Books") belongs to later authors. It is employed first by the medieval exegetes; for instance, Ibn Ezra, introduction to "Yesod Morah" and "M'ozne Lashon ha-Ḳodesh"; see also Neubauer, "Book of Tobit," 43b, Oxford, 1878; Grätz, "Gesch. der Juden," 3d ed., vii. 384; Margoliouth, "Cat. Hebr. and Samaritan MSS. Brit Mus.," Nos. 181, 193; and elsewhere infrequently, but never in Talmud or Midrash. This fact goes to show that the ancients regarded the whole mass of the national religious writings as equally holy. The Greek translation of the term is τὰ βιβλία, which (as maybe seen from the expressions καὶ τὰ λΟιπὰ τῶν βιβλίων and καὶ τῶν ἄλλων πατρίων βιβλίων) is used by the grandson of Sirach in the introduction to Ecclesiasticus (Sirach) to designate the whole of the Scriptures. Rome is not my authority
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Post by Dave on Dec 28, 2019 21:41:29 GMT -5
[/p] Dave: "– Where do you get these wild ideas? Not from me! Is it part of God’s plan? Who knows Did God plan the crash? – only if it served God’s purpose = otherwise it might just be an accident The archon’s did the crashing – What? – where do you get these ideas? God tested that person – who knows? – The test may not be theirs – it might be yours If you misrepresent the cosmology – of course it doesn’t fly
Now you have confused me? I thought you said the archons do all the RA on humans? And that GOD designed the Archons to test humans? SO that makes GOD a designer of bad things happening to people?
Please explain.
[/quote] You are testing me – and that is OK – Archon are a product of RA correct Archon’s mission is to test mankind (and all creation) Do archons do evil to people – yes Job 1:2 He had seven sons and three daughters. Job 1:18-19 While he was still speaking, yet another messenger came and said, "Your sons and daughters were feasting and drinking wine at the oldest brothers house, when suddenly a mighty wind swept in from the desert and struck the four corners of the house. It collapsed on them and they are dead, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!" There is no evidence within scripture to suggest the God instructed satan how to do his job – satan was left to his own creativity – again the sons and daughters were not the ones being tested – Job was The sons and daughters were just human pawns in a cosmic struggle Is every bad act a direct archon intervention? – Very simple thinking resulting from Catholic excuses – the devil made me do it More answer after this DNA has nothing to do with salvation – nothing 3D corporeal / physical is getting into heaven We are born as (Soul + Mind-Body) Soul is the seat of yester tov (Because it is spiritual) / Mind-Body is the seat of yester ra (because it is carnal) As a fetus within the womb and as a new born baby – (Mind-Body) is immature and we are Soul dominate – in communion with our Creator – fully aware But as (Mind-Body) matures and begins to express carnal desire – our communion with our Creator is broken (by us / by our carnal nature / by our carnal lust / animal – yester ra) So - are you saying - if you are dying from a medical complication – you cannot be saved / you are not saved? What if I am retarded – or have a physical handicap – if I accept Christ – will I be made physically correct? Physical / corporeal has nothing to do with being Baptized by the HS Back to your first question - SO that makes GOD a designer of bad things happening to people?I sure don’t understand where you get these ideas – it must be your Catholic teaching God created everything – correct Ra is created by God – correct God’s Laws are there for man to find Him Rom 1:20 and Psa 19:1 Entropy say – everything winds down – Corporeal creation will wind down into nothingness Gen 1:1 God fattened Himself into the visible and the invisible The visible = Christ / the invisible = HS God = all earth and all heaven (Gen 1:1) Then Gen 1:2 – something wound down – something forgot (that God is absolute) – the first independent self-centered thought – ME = Choshek SO that makes GOD a designer of bad things happening to people?Free Will – Man is the only creature in the entire universe that has the ability to choose If we were all predestined (Catholic concept) – then man has no free will Example – with your free will you choose tov – and you spend all your time devoted to the Lord(as best you know how) I choose ra – and in my anger / lust / greed I decide to murder you Did you do anything wrong Able? NO Did any archon / satan / devil MAKE me murder you – NO – they only suggest / they temp / they plant ideas – they appeal to your yester ra – they act like Greek Sirens calling you to sin THE CHOICE IS ALWAYS MANS!Gnostic exploration – Able was a good guy – why did he have to die? Gnostic answer – to teach Cain a lesson and therefore all mankind – it was Cain lesson to learn What about Able – was he not used by God to facilitate this lesson? In local churches – ask people if they would serve God if asked – they all say yes Cool – be Jonah, be John the Baptist, be Judas – be Baallim – be Steven – be Pharaoh All major players in God’s plan Able was a major player in God’s plan – that story teaches the rest of humanity Job was a major player in God’s plan – that story teaches the rest of humanity Christians ask – why did God let little Jimmy die – he was just an innocent boy Gnostics just thinks the Christian unaware of the “REALITY of the CONTEST” Life in the Contest is a wild west shoot out of man and beast – The Contest is not a nice place And the archon make it as hard and as complicated as they can Ancient Gnostic saw this world as the corruption / as the imperfection - I understand their point not their delivery The archon doesn’t not even have to know your name if you are worldly – because you are already lost You are yester ra dominate - Mind-Body dominate - love of money, sex, fame, etc Those who move closer to Christ feel the attack of the archon – to cause doubt of the MIND-Body to confuse the yearning of the Soul to remember The Gospel of Thomas - The Nag Hammadi Library(2) Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the All." (3) Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty." (5) Jesus said, "Recognize what is in your sight, and that which is hidden from you will become plain to you . For there is nothing hidden which will not become manifest." (82) Jesus said, "He who is near me is near the fire, and he who is far from me is far from the kingdom." And why is the Contest so hard?The Exegesis on the Soul - The Nag Hammadi LibraryAnd repentance takes place in distress and grief. But the father is good and loves humanity, and he hears the soul that calls upon him and sends it the light of salvation. Therefore he said through the spirit to the prophet (cf. 1 Cl 8:3), "Say to the children of my people, 'If your sins extend from earth to heaven, and if they become red like scarlet and blacker than sackcloth, and if you return to me with all your soul and say to me 'my Father!', I will heed you as a holy people.'" Feel Good Christianity is an empty message – bad things happen because bad things happen – that is the nature of the Contest – some caused by archon - some cause by men influenced by archon – some men need no encouragement at all because of the strength of the yester ra with them A perfect example of this is what happens to men at war – There are no atheist in fox-holes (yester tov) – yet when the enemy come, our inner yester ra (sense of survival) makes us crazy vicious killers
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