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Post by Dave on Nov 28, 2022 7:30:44 GMT -5
R" I am fresh out of ideas, getting you to answer the one question you will not answer, or won't answer : who is the shedim that sin like humans sin from the beginning. Your last post you deny that the shedim even sin. Your last post you even deny that only humans sin, but John says the shedim sin from the beginning. 1- the premise of your question is flawed1Jn 3:8 he who is doing the sin, of the devil he is, … Man who sin is like the devil, satanas, serpent, BEAST – in error, ignorant, in darkness – choshek - Gen 1:2 2- who is the shedim that sin from the beginning.----------------------------------- Ex 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. So who are there false elohiym powers in this law? DUH – DUH and double DUH Egypt = Osiris, Isis, Horus, Seth, Ptah, RA, Hathor, Anubis, and many more Osiris – a space god from the star Sirus – and the Dogon tribe knew the rotational period of Sirus A and Sirus B – 200 yeas before science discovered it O’ Sirus – a space god – who fathers – offspring – in family units – that have offspring – and quarrel amongst themselves All of them – archon – left over Nephilim – ejected from earth, but allowed to visit here All of them – archon / shedim – of Jewish demonology All of them agents / messengers / of the BEAST / WORLD / MATERIALISM Same group that are the ‘other gods’ of the Levant Same group that are the ‘other gods’ of Greece / Rome / Norse / Pagan / anywhere / everywhere Same group man called – ancient astronauts / space gods / UFOs and Alien ------------------------------ Re 12:7, 8 and 9 speak of a war in heaven, and banishment to earth, long before humans existed. Dave agrees the shedim are false elohiym powers. And they existed long before humans existed.Correction – angels, man, and BEAST – were all created DAY ONEHowever – the appearance off the BEAST = Gen 1:2 choshek and chaos – Gen 1:2 / Rev 12:1-4 BUT – God ILLUMINATED creation with the LIGHT / the truth / Christ / Salvation from the darkness – Gen 1:3 / Rev 12:5 AND God separated the LIGHT from the DARKNESS Gen 1:3-4 / Rev 12:5-6 Re 12:7, 8 and 9 speak of a war in heaven, and banishment to earth Not just to earth (small g = all material creation / not just planet Earth) – but INTO earthJob 2:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. Not just ON EARTH – but IN EARTH = IN ALL MATERIAL CREATION = ENTROPYOK, who are these shedim and what is their origin?ANSWER – they are the BEAST (1) they sinned against the entirety ENTROPY (2) the ‘sinning angels’ of Jude 1:6 + 2 Peter 2:4 = the bane elohiym of Gen 1:6---------------Rob researches into Jewish traditions about the origins of the SHEDIM-------------------------- SO MUCH FOR TORAH ONLYAccording to one legend,- YES they clarify it is a legend – no one is offering as scripturethe shedim are descendants of serpents, or of demons in the form of serpents, alluding to the serpent in Eden as related in Genesis. Agree – archon – the serpent RACE – offspring of the BEASTAccording to one common view, they are the offspring of Lilith,[14] from her union with Adam or other men. YES they clarify it is a legend – no one is offering as scriptureAnother legend said that God created them on the sixth day, he had started making their bodies but did not complete their creation because he was resting during the Sabbath.[15] Even after the Sabbath, he left them how they were to show that when the Sabbath comes, all work must be viewed as complete.[16] Therefore, the shedim have souls like that of humans, but without a body.[17] Never heard this before – Incomplete? In-between – not fully angelic – but not fully human – a MIX – ‘some matter’The Talmud describes the shedim as possessing some traits of angels, and some traits of humans: I am not a Talmudic Jew – don’t care In-between – not fully angelic – but not fully human – a MIX – ‘some matter’In three ways they are like ministering angels: They have wings like ministering angels; and they fly from one end of the world to the other like ministering angels; and they know what will be in the future like ministering angels. And in three ways they are similar to humans: They eat and drink like humans; they multiply like humans; and they die like humans. — Babylonian Talmud Hagigah 16a[20] In-between – not fully angelic – but not fully human – a MIX – ‘some matter’ Offspring – they know their future (and do not repent, because it is not their nature) They can die like humans – in mortal form, but their spirits remain on earth as evil spirits------------------------------------------- www.rabbinorbert.com/2014/11/of-shedim-and-mazikimptuh-ptuh-ptuh.htmlR" Interesting dribble But Robert post it anywayYou look at the story of the patriarchs and with Abraham and Isaac; there is not one single magic trick mentioned, not one incantation. Jacob, it is true has his fight with what he thinks is a demon but the demon has been transformed into an angelic messenger. The Egyptians have their magicians and the Babylonians too, but what about ancient Israel? As the pagan necromancer, Balaam, himself admits,” There is no magic in Israel”! We outlaw and forbid it. The Bible is, in essence, on the warpath against magic and magical, fantastical thinking. Correct – worship of the Lord is not magic – it is miraculous Axe heads float – fire falls from heaven – the Red Sea parts – pillar of fire / column of smoke
Magic = worship of – calling upon – invoking – the BEAST – the serpent RACE – satanas, devils All they can do is manipulate nature – wind / rain / fertility – all material parlor tricksThe Judaism as expressed in the Mishna is in the same vein- it rejects all mystical speculation. “Whoever asks, ‘what is above, what is below, what before, what after--it were better he never were born! ( Mishnah Hagiga 2). That pretty much shuts down any discussion of afterworld daemonic realms. The Judaism of the philosophers like Maimonides or Saadia Gaon held no truck for anything irrational. YES – very Jewish YES – Judeo-Christianity fully / 100% acknowledge the REALITY OF THE ARCHON YES – they are our real struggle – Eph 6:12
Jdg 2:3 Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you. R" Nothing about origin,CORRECT – the oldest text = King Solomon - all we have on origin =Beelzebul is the offspring of an ARCH-angel Beelzebul has offspring Beelzebul required the Arch-angel Uriel permission to appear to King Solomon Belzebul says – he is all that is left of those that came down Belzebul = King of the Demons Solomon calls the King of the demons – the Prince of the Demons Belzebul calls himself the RULER of the demons Validated by Jesus Christ - Matthew 10:25, 12:24,27, Mark 3:22, and Luke 11:15, 18–19 The Demon Amosdeus admits that he is a Nephilim Onoskelis – a female demon - The Succubus R" Nothing about origin, CORRECT – the oldest text = King Solomon – it is all we have on origin – from the Jews=================================== www.myjewishlearning.com/article/demons-dybbuks-ghosts-golems/R" more weird stuff The mythic structure of the Kabbalah provided many colorful answers to that question: demons and dybbuks, golems, and ghosts are all the results of misspent life energy. But the Kabbalah does not develop its ideas out of nowhere; they are part of a long history of Jewish speculation about shedim (demons, also a word used to refer to foreign gods) and demonic personalities such as Lilith. YES – shedim = ‘other gods’ or personal demons = archon – our real struggle Eph 6:12In the proper functioning of the cosmos, energy flows like a cycle: down from heaven, then back up in the form of proper ritual action. But when the energy is misappropriated, as in masturbation or rebellion, its intense power falls into the realm of shadow. R" so self abuse - masturbation - makes demons?NOT WHAT IT SAYS – these actions – fall into the realm of DARKNESS / shadow – missing the LIGHT YES – anything that takes your attention away from God and into WORLD = the mission of the WORLD / ARCHON / BEASTCan you pray while masturbating? Can you be in the spirit while embracing the WORLD and the (yester ra) compulsions of biologyMat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Moreover, they threw mankind into great distraction and into a life of toil, so that their mankind might be occupied by worldly affairs, and might not have the opportunity of being devoted to the holy spirit.YES – anything that takes your attention away from God and into WORLD = the mission of the WORLD / ARCHON / BEAST--------------------------------- www.mesora.org/shadim.htmlRABBI MOSHE BEN-CHAIM R" shedim are illusions? really ? Talmudic Jews do not accept the spiritual realm – just the Law-------------------------------------------- Rob summary: The Jews do not have any real origin of the shedim. CORRECT – the oldest text = King Solomon – it is all we have on origin – from the JewsTheir writings is just myth, dribble and inventions of the minds of men. YES – you require Judaism to be wrong so your Ellen White satanology can replace it--------------------------------------- Dave posts "Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.. Man – was perfect before Eve The Beast appeared ready to devour – fully formed ready to do his job The Beast was never perfect R" I see you are misapplying the SIMILE. The Scripture says the cherub was once sinless until iniquity was found in thee. NO IT DOES NOT – IT SAY THE KING OF TYRE (MAN) WAS PERFECT"appeared ready to devour – fully formed ready to do his job" is a complete contradiction of the Simile of the above verse you quoted. ABSOLUTELY CORRECT – Ezk 28 CANNOT BE ABOUT THE BEASTTherefore GOD never created a RA creature who "appeared ready to devour – fully formed ready to do his job" - this is an added writing from your Gnostic source. You can call the Book of Revelation a Gnostic source if you want to – but you just MOCK scriptureRev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. You can MOCK both the Hebrew Book of Genesis and the Gnostic NT Book of Revelation – but you just MOCK scripture-------------------------------------------- My point is sinless creatures do not need continual testing as you claim. I do not claim all creatures need continual testing Scripture says God test man--------------------------------------------- D"Is your satan god – gone and forgotten? R" Yes affliction shall not arise a second time. WOW – if your satan is gone and forgotten why do you have an entire religion built around him --------------------------------------------- You threaten to delete my posts, because I speak truth? – DO YOU Mr CONTRADICTION?Mr – I do not have to answer question guy Mr – I just attack and try to tear down mainstream Judeo-Christianity ----------------------------------- D"Proof you have an unusual view of the ahl/OT – ahl/NT because everyone else believes that GOD TEST MAN R" Really? Why was the SHEDIM in the Garden in the first place? DUH - Deu 8:2 … to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no. --------------------------------- D"IF YOU DO NOT STOP MISSREPRESENTING ME – I will begin deleting your post R" But its true, Gnostic writings do not speak of affliction arising the first time. NO ROBERT – JUDEO-GNOSTIC CHRISTIAN TEXT DO NOT VALIDATE YOUR SATAN AS A GODSin entered the world – through Eve – Rom 5:12If – you say what happened in Gen 1:2 = SIN Then – there are no demons at all – they are all locked away And – God called it TOV What happened in Gen 1:2 = DARKNESS / IGNORANCE The Beast has always been here since Gen 1:2 ‘sinning angels’ of Jude 1:6 + 2 Peter 2:4 = Gen 6 – and they are locked away But the Rephiem remain D"Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.. Man – was perfect before Eve The Beast appeared ready to devour – fully formed ready to do his job The Beast was never perfect D" The Beast appeared ready to devour – fully formed ready to do his job" R" is a complete lie from Scritpure "Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."Why do you call agl/NT scripture a lie? – Christian?Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. ----------------------------------------------------------------end-------- D"ANSWER QUESTIONS R" I will answer your questions only after you answer mine first, who is the shedim in Exodus 20:1-2 Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying, Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. who is the shedim in Exodus 20:1-2I will play a Robert – what do you mean – I don’t understand – I can’t find the answer Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. But who are the ‘other gods’ of Exo 20:3?The BEAST – the serpent Race – the devils and sananas = ARCHONThey can be false gods – directly - Baal / Moloch / Zeus / Allah / satan / all pagan They can be false gods – indirectly – evolution – atheist - Caesar – football – wealth – fame / all WORLD They can be false gods – modern – ancient astronauts – UFOs and Alien / all archon Moreover, they threw mankind into great distraction and into a life of toil, so that their mankind might be occupied by worldly affairs, and might not have the opportunity of being devoted to the holy spirit.YES – anything that takes your attention away from God and into WORLD = the mission of the WORLD / ARCHON / BEASTRa = movement away from God = entropy – on any scale – on every scale
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2022 15:06:08 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
You suggest the oldest known source of origin of SHEDIM in Solomon.
So the chief SHEDIM is an offspring of an arch-angel?
How is this possible? And why would God allow angels to make RA creatures? And why isn't this recorded in OT Scripture, speaking of Solomon and his doings??
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My second theme is you read the John verse 1 John 3:8 the SHEDIM SINNETH as only a ignorant movement away from God, as if the entropy takes hold of the SHedim as they are designed to do what they do. Clearly in your view these shedim cannot sin because they have no free will to sin.
Do you understand this is not what 1 John 3:8 is saying. John is making a direct parallel, that as humans sin, we are of shedim who also sin.
In fact as we humans keeping on sinning we become children of the shedim. Thus we are members of shedim who also keep on sinning.
You do not see any of this in your view. Please explain why not.
John says not to love the world or the things in the world, these are also sinning attitudes for humans. As well as sinning traits for the shedim. Why do you focus on the distractions of the world, when John also calls this a sinning trait, but you seem to not see this as also sinning?
D" Ra = movement away from God = entropy – on any scale – on every scale R" This is also a sin, but you do not see it this way? Why is that?
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Third theme
If the chief Shedim is offspring by some angel, and the creature does arrogant and entropy RA things from birth, it is not accountable for its actions.
So your view has no origin of sin.
The only origin of sin you have is when Eve sinned, and Adam sinned, when distracted by the shedim placed on and in the earth to tempt/ test man's obedience to God's laws.
Yet RA creatures do not have to obey TOV laws, only man has to with man's free will.
How is this fair, when GOD has creatures not following TOV laws, but RA laws to go forth and multiply and do as much RA doing as you want to? SO now your GOD is both a TOV law maker and a RA law maker as well?
When Jesus was speaking of the chief SHEDIM, how come Jesus spoke of the SHEDIM as a father over the Jews, and a father of lies and a murderer from the beginning, if this creature is a mere distracting agent to test man? Something wrong in your view and Jesus view of the chief SHEDIM? They do not match.
Jesus speaks of the SHEDIM as sinning, as the JEWS sin, as the JEWS are children under the control of this SHEDIM, but Dave ignores this. Why?
Why you even say lying is not a sin? But murderer is a sin? But you say GOD allowed and commanded humans to murder other humans? SO you are trying to fit into your view, the idea that GOD has TOV laws and RA laws, and GOD can do anything He likes, including making RA creatures, which do bad things, is NOT considered sin.
But Jesus said the SHEDIM is a murderer, is this not a sin? as humans understand sin?
Scripture says GOD does not lie, therefore GOD does not murder either. Harag is different to Ratsach, so leaving a bad influence living under your breath of living, can make you accountable for sin, so God has to at certain times remove His breath of living in you to stop your RA wounding others. Is this not God's right to preserve living and thus removing those who spoil and wound others?
But you twist and seek the most difficult cases to fit GOD into your view, a GOD who does both TOV and RA normally and naturally.
My view of GOD is one who does TOV all the time. Only when humans desire to sin, does GOD have to engineer the RA, so the human sins are observable to humans. Therefore sin is not something GOD normally deals with. In my view entropy came from sinning.
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If man is the only creature that can sin, with free will to sin....
Why do you twist Scripture that says otherwise?
Ezekiel 28 cherub chata "angels sin"
You even agree some angels asked God to go down, became trapped into shape shifting and so corrupted themselves in women, God locks them away for their "sins", but we cannot say such angels truly "sin" because while they have intelligence to make choices, the angels cannot "sin" like humans can. Really Dave. John says "shedim sin" but Dave ignores this.
Jude says the "messengers left their estate", but this is ignored by Dave, when it is paralleled to Sodom, a sinning trait humans do.
Explain why the SHEDIM as thrown into the Lake of Fire than, for doing nothing wrong, no moral sins, so why are they punished?
Please answer these questions....
Fifth theme
You were quick to explain SHedim in the royal law, referring to man and angels and beast all made from day one.
So the commandment was made from day one also, thou shall not bow down to false elohiym powers?
Explain how false elohiym powers come to be, if man is the only creature capable of sinning, thus knowing both good and evil?
Your premise to make the Shedim false elohiym powers from day one, is FALSE. First your shedim have no free will to choose both good and evil. Your shedim only do what they do, RA all the time, some might do tov when it suits them, ie help Solomon make stones.
Your 6 second bustle in Rev 12, also proves your Shedim do not sin, they do RA so GOD ejected them to earth. So this does not make them false elohiym powers, since they do not know TOV, but only know RA, and thus are not choosing one trait over another trait like humans can. Therefore there can be not other elohiym powers in the universe because such requires free will, and so only humans can be false elohiym powers. You goofed DAVE, MAKING false hoods that SHedim can be false elohiym powers, they cannot.
So I have another question you cannot answer ?
Who are these false gods humans are not allowed to worship in the royal law?
Don't be so quick to mention "SO Dave quotes"
Egypt = Osiris, Isis, Horus, Seth, Ptah, RA, Hathor, Anubis, and many more Osiris – a space god from the star Sirus – and the Dogon tribe knew the rotational period of Sirus A and Sirus B – 200 yeas before science discovered it
O’ Sirus – a space god – who fathers – offspring – in family units – that have offspring – and quarrel amongst themselves
Rob asks " so explain these space elohiym powers, how can they choose both good and evil, if they have no intelligence to choose, no free will to sin?
Jeff benner explains in order to become an elohiym power, mankind had to choose to sin.
Yet these elohiym powers existed from day one of your view, 5 days before Sabbath laws were required to be obeyed. So explain how such beings became false elohiym powers in just five days of choosing both good and evil, and thus sinning, when you have no creatures with free will to sin in the first place, except man?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Nov 29, 2022 4:06:39 GMT -5
STILL – NOT ONE ANSWER FROM ROBERTBeginning to think you have no honest answers – just avoid the questions – evade – just continue your attack – so academic – so one sided -------------------------- You suggest the oldest known source of origin of SHEDIM in Solomon.King Solomon is the oldest source of (any detailed information) about them - Correct So the chief SHEDIM is an offspring of an arch-angel? How is this possible? YES – the BEAST had offspring – all BEAST have offspring – please name one beast that never reproduces And why would God allow angels to make RA creatures?Angels do not make anything – there is only One True Creator YES – the BEAST had offspring – all BEAST have offspring – please name one beast that never reproduces Why do you consider all BEAST evil – evil cows – evil ants – evil birds – evil bacteria The BEAST was NOT created as the god of evil – but the force of entropy – a law of nature – a by-product / inherent to physical creation The Beast does NOT oppose God – he opposes creation From the first moment a star ignites – entropy says – it will burnt out eventually THIS IS NOT EVIL – IT IS BALANCETo slow down to avoid running over a child = entropy THIS IS NOT EVIL – IT IS BALANCERobert says – no decay (entropy) until Gen 3 – when all creation ‘fell’Dave says – then Adam and Eve would be standing deep in shit and dungDave says – this decay feeds the next generation of New Life – cyclic – balance THIS IS NOT EVIL – IT IS BALANCE WITHIN NATURE – PROOF OF GOD’s HANDIWORKA cyclic balance – the Dance of Symmetry – the balance of the sub-atomic – the atomic – the physical – and the cosmos – PROOF OF INTELLIGENT DESIGN – therefore an INTELLIGENT DESIGNER Psa 19:2 The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky shows His handiwork. Psa 19:3 Day to day they speak, night to night they reveal knowledge. Psa 19:4 There is no speech, no words, where their voice goes unheard. Rom 1:19 because what can be known about God is plain to them—for God has shown it to them. Rom 1:20 His invisible attributes—His eternal power and His divine nature—have been clearly seen ever since the creation of the world, being understood through the things that have been made. So people are without excuse— Nature is scripture – teaching all men the lesson of natureFrom birth → we grow and learn to question our own morality → should I atone? All creation testifies – God is real – God is here – and death is a certainty – them what All creation testifies – through death comes New Life THIS IS NOT EVIL – IT IS BALANCE WITHIN NATURE – PROOF OF GOD’s HANDIWORKRosh Hashanah → from the beginning Yom Kippur → do I need to atone – if so why Sukkot → God does tabernacle with man - twice Purim → Salvation is of the Lord Pesach → Passover death to New Life Shavout → The Harvest – Pentecost THE TRUTH OF JUDAISM IS WRITEN INTO EVERY MOLECULE – ROCK - PLANT – or ANIMAL----------------------------- And why isn't this recorded in OT Scripture, speaking of Solomon and his doings??I offered to study the life of King Solomon with you – you were not interested(google) Solomon was promised wisdom, riches, honor, and long life if he would continue in righteousness before the Lord. The promise was fulfilled. During his life, Solomon became famous for his wisdom. Great men and women from many nations came to hear him and test his understanding and knowledge. 1 Kings 1-11 , 1 Kings 3:5-15 1Ki 4:29 And God gave Solomon wisdom and understanding exceeding much, and largeness of heart, even as the sand that is on the sea shore. 1Ki 4:30 And Solomon's wisdom excelled the wisdom of all the children of the east country, and all the wisdom of Egypt. 1Ki 4:31 For he was wiser than all men; than Ethan the Ezrahite, and Heman, and Chalcol, and Darda, the sons of Mahol: and his fame was in all nations round about. 1Ki 4:32 And he spake three thousand proverbs: and his songs were a thousand and five. I offered to study the life of King Solomon with you – you were not interested YEP – Roman Christendom teaches that King Solomon was the wisest man that ever lived What about the rest of the story from scripture?What about about the pagan worship performed by Solomon, “The Ammonites worshiped the hideous god Molech and sacrificed their infants on altars (Lev. 18:21; 20:1-5; and see Jer. 7:29-34; Ezek. 16:20-22). Chemosh was the chief god of the Moabites, and Ashtereth (Astarte) was the goddess of the people of Tyre and Sidon. As the goddess of fertility, her worship included “legalized prostitution” involving both male and female temple prostitutes, and that worship was unspeakably filthy. (See Deut. 23:1-8; 1 Kings 14:24; 15:12; 22:46.) The Babylonians also worshiped this goddess and called her Ishtar.” The book of Ecclesiastes is thought to be Solomon’s book of repentance from pagan worship. 1 Kings 11:7 (NCV) On a hill east of Jerusalem, Solomon built two places for worship. One was a place to worship Chemosh, the hated god of the Moabites, and the other was a place to worship Molech, the hated god of the Ammonites. I offered to study the life of King Solomon with you – you were not interestedYEP – Roman Christendom teaches that King Solomon was the wisest man that ever lived AND HE FELL PREY TO NECROMANCYThe lesson of King Solomon – even he could not withstand the temptations of the ‘other gods’ Leave NECROMANCY alone – do NOT touch – do not engage The lesson of King Solomon – if you engage the archon – they become more real to you ROGER MORNOU – evil spirit worship in exchange for wealth, power, and fame Play with a WIGI BOARD and you open yourself to the archon / demos If you engage in witchcraft – witchcraft engages you If you pray to Baal – Baal will answer you If you give into the BEAST – the BEAST will consume you Judaism 101-------------------- My second theme is you read the John verse 1 John 3:8 the SHEDIM SINNETH as only a ignorant movement away from God, as if the entropy takes hold of the SHedim as they are designed to do what they do. Clearly in your view these shedim cannot sin because they have no free will to sin. You MOCK the term Free Will BEAST are not man – they are BEAST Cows have the ability to choose to eat your garden or stand in the middle of the road It has nothing to do with the Free Will choice between WORLD and GOD Birds have the ability to fly east or west – north or south It has nothing to do with the Free Will choice between WORLD and GOD Ants have the ability to choose to invade your picnic or go eat something else It has nothing to do with the Free Will choice between WORLD and GOD Baboons, mice, raccons, rats, etc - all have the ability to destroy all your hard work for fun It has nothing to do with the Free Will choice between WORLD and GOD ---------------------------- Do you understand this is not what 1 John 3:8 is saying. John is making a direct parallel, that as humans sin, we are of shedim who also sin. 1Jn 3:8 The one who practices sin is of the devil, IT SAYS – any man that chooses to sin – is like the devil – focused upon WORLD (yester ra) – NOT focused upon God WORLD or GODIn fact as we humans keeping on sinning we become children of the shedim. focused upon WORLD (yester ra) – NOT focused upon God WORLD or GODJohn says not to love the world or the things in the world, these are also sinning attitudes for humans. As well as sinning traits for the shedim. Why do you focus on the distractions of the world, when John also calls this a sinning trait, but you seem to not see this as also sinning?focused upon WORLD (yester ra) – NOT focused upon God WORLD or GOD---------------------- Third theme So your view has no origin of sin. The only origin of sin you have is when Eve sinned, and Adam sinned, when distracted by the shedim placed on and in the earth to tempt/ test man's obedience to God's laws. You say I have no origin - then say I do have a scriptural origin Just more of your contradictions--------------------------- How is this fair, when GOD has creatures not following TOV laws, but RA lawsWhat is this religious double speak – what is a RA Law? No one has any idea of what you are trying to invent now RA laws to go forth and multiply BINGO – why do you call God’s Commandment to go forth be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth – EVIL?Gen 1:20 Then God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures! Let flying creatures fly above the land across the expanse of the sky.” Gen 1:21 Then God created the large sea creatures and every living creature that crawls, with which the water swarms, according to their species, as well as every winged flying creature, according to their species. And God saw that it was good. Gen 1:22 Then God blessed them by saying, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the water in the seas. Let the flying creatures multiply on the land.” Why do you teach this commandment from God is EVIL And why do you declare that Psa 19:2 + Rom 1:19-20 is proof of your satan as god You are consumed by your satan god – it is all you focus on You give your praise to the wrong god ------------------------------- When Jesus was speaking of the chief SHEDIM, how come Jesus spoke of the SHEDIM as a father over the Jews, and a father of lies and a murderer from the beginning, if this creature is a mere distracting agent to test man? Something wrong in your view and Jesus view of the chief SHEDIM? They do not match. Perfect match – Spiritual relationship with God / Communion – or practice a worldly religion of do and don’t laws -------------------------------------- Why you even say lying is not a sin? But murderer is a sin? But you say GOD allowed and commanded humans to murder other humans?SO you are trying to fit into your view STOP YOU IGNORANCE RIGHT NOW AND READ SCRIPTURE105 scripture verse about - GOD allowed and commanded humans to murder other humanswww.openbible.info/topics/genocide1 Samuel 15:2-3 ESV Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I have noted what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” Hosea 13:16 ESV Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword; their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open. Joshua 6:21 ESV Then they devoted all in the city to destruction, both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and donkeys, with the edge of the sword. Deuteronomy 2:34 ESV And we captured all his cities at that time and devoted to destruction every city, men, women, and children. We left no survivors. Deuteronomy 20:16-17 ESV But in the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you for an inheritance, you shall save alive nothing that breathes, but you shall devote them to complete destruction, the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites, as the Lord your God has commanded, you shall devote them to complete destruction, … as the Lord your God has commanded devoted to destruction every city, men, women, and children. We left no survivors. their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open. Thus says the Lord of hosts, … Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infantBut you say GOD allowed and commanded humans to murder other humans? Harag is different to RatsachJust religious double speakMy view of GOD is one who does TOV all the time. Your view is NOT even scripturalIsa 45:5 I am Adonai—there is no other. Besides Me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not known Me, Isa 45:6 so they may know, from the rising to the setting of the sun, that there is no one besides Me. I am Adonai—there is no other. Isa 45:7 I form light and create darkness. I make shalom and create calamity. I, Adonai, do all these things. Isa 45:8 “Rain down, O heavens, from above, and let the clouds pour down justice. Let the earth open up, let salvation sprout, and righteousness spring up with it. I, Adonai, have created it.” -------------- Fourth theme Ezekiel 28 cherub chata "angels sin" The cherub you speak of is the King of Tyre The King of Tyre is like a cherub – and the King of Tyre sinned
You even agree some angels asked God to go down, became trapped into shape shifting and so corrupted themselves in women, God locks them away for their "sins", but we cannot say such angels truly "sin" because while they have intelligence to make choices, the angels cannot "sin" like humans can. Really Dave. YES - I even agree some angels (messengers – bane elohiym – archon – shedim) asked God to go down, became trapped into shape shifting and so corrupted themselves in women, (YEP – Gen 6) God locks them away for their "sins", (YEP – Jude 1:6 + 2 Peter 2:4) but we cannot say such angels truly "sin" because while they have intelligence to make choices, the angels cannot "sin" like humans can. Really Dave.Just religious double speak to make it confusing The bane elohiym (archon) od Gen 6 sinned by – REPRODUCNG OUT OF THEIR OWN KIND (yester ra) the compulsion to reproduce – commanded by God – go forth be fruitful and multiply-------------------------------- Fifth theme Explain how false elohiym powers come to be, if man is the only creature capable of sinning DUH – DUH and double DUH - All was created through Him and for Him.Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: a great fiery red dragon that had seven heads and ten horns, and seven royal crowns on his heads. Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created—in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen, whether thrones or angelic powers or rulers or authorities. All was created through Him and for Him. Joh 1:3 All things were made through Him, and apart from Him nothing was made that has come into being. Rev 4:11 “Worthy are You, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, For You created all things, and because of Your will they existed and were created!” -------------------------------- So I have another question you cannot answer ? Rob asks " so explain these space elohiym powers, how can they choose both good and evil, if they have no intelligence to choose, no free will to sin? REPEAT - You MOCK the term Free Will BEAST are not man – they are BEAST Cows have the ability to choose to eat your garden or stand in the middle of the road It has nothing to do with the Free Will choice between WORLD and GOD Birds have the ability to fly east or west – north or south It has nothing to do with the Free Will choice between WORLD and GOD Ants have the ability to choose to invade your picnic or go eat something else It has nothing to do with the Free Will choice between WORLD and GOD Baboons, mice, raccons, rats, etc - all have the ability to destroy all your hard work for fun It has nothing to do with the Free Will choice between WORLD and GOD DUH
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2022 15:40:47 GMT -5
Greetings Dave 1) You said the beast was offspring of an arch angel, now you say the beast was created by GOD? How can you answer both? You do not explain? 2) Explain how the beast never opposes GOD but always opposes creation? This is contradictory? So according to your view, something that is with entropy, RA and dysfunction is still perfectly functional, because GOD created the beast. Where does Scripture say GOD created this beast like this? All animals were originally herbivores and later became carnivores after Adam sinned. You laugh at my vegetarian sharks, and grass eating lions. Not a single verse about GOD creating RA creatures in a sinless perfect world. Only Gnostic verse says this, proof you do not support Scripture. D" Dave says – then Adam and Eve would be standing deep in shit and dungR" You assume to know all things ? Maybe all fibre was soluble. Dung is 99% bacteria and insolube fibre in modern times. So if all bacteria was freeliving, than the bacteria swim away into the ground. I do not assume to know all things, and so if the topic is not explained well in Scripture, why do you need to know? D" Dave says – this decay feeds the next generation of New Life – cyclic – balanceR" The adamuh from which Adam came was adam, ie red, not black in colour, thus organic matter was not required to make the soil rich, nor was humus required. This suggests to me a totally different soil arrangement of living systems, all without death. D" Nature is scripture – teaching all men the lesson of natureR" Yes , but you have assumed what you see now is how GOD originally designed things? God cursed the ground remember when Adam sinned? D" I offered to study the life of King Solomon with you – you were not interestedR" To seek the orgin of Shedim in Solomon's writings you go to writings not inspired, as thus assumed to be written by Solomon? The torah is inspired because GOD wanted this message preserved, not all the messages written by all the Jews, including Solomon who we know fell out of favour with GOD, but later repented of his sinnings. The torah we have today is inspired because GOD preserved it in this way, you assume GOD is almighty, than can't GOD preserve HIS message, as torah, that is common to all people? Yet you say the Roman Catholics are stronger than GOD is, and edited GOD's message? I do not see this. GOD is bigger than humans, and entropy beasts, so GOD preserved His message as His inspired torah for all humans to read, but you think GOD is not powerful to preserve and that GOD makes mistakes in His message, and that GOD even has some bastard verses, so you change them and even ignore verses you do not like. If God is almighty than the torah God presents to the entire world is inspired and almighty too. ------------------------- D" Play with a WIGI BOARD and you open yourself to the archon / demosIf you engage in witchcraft – witchcraft engages you If you pray to Baal – Baal will answer you If you give into the BEAST – the BEAST will consume youR" Absolutely correct But where did the SHEDIM come from? You seek writings GOD did not choose to preserve, outside of the torah of GOD. -------------------------- Theme 2 RP" Clearly in your view these shedim cannot sin because they have no free will to sin.D" You MOCK the term Free WillR" Dave free will has to be defined as the ability of a creature who once sinned, to repent and return back to GOD and become sinless once again.
Is this idea correct? And why do you say I mock the term "free will"? Birds can do RA, yes, but they cannot repent, hence do not have free will to seek God when they sin. You put the beast into the same class of animals as cows, bacteria and baboons. These animals also can do RA, but they cannot repent of their RA. Only one problem with your theory, the Bible says the SHEDIM SIN like humans sin, 1 John 3:8 SO stop making excuses for the shedim, these creatures DO have free will to sin and thus repent from sin, but they choose not to, their conscious is seared with a hot iron. D"1Jn 3:8 The one who practices sin is of the devil, IT SAYS – any man that chooses to sin – is like the devil –R" Typical Dave, you do not include the rest of the verse, only the bit you like, ignore the bit you do not like.... What about "the shedim sinneth".... comments on this verse bit? Its a parallel. The humans sinneth as the shedim sinneth. Do you agree with this verse? Hence shedim have free will to sin? ---------------------- third theme D" You say I have no origin - then say I do have a scriptural origin Just more of your contradictionsR" Dave you have no origin of the shedim, except you seek outside writings GOD did not include as inspired, because Jews do not consider them inspired from God. You say humans are the first to have sinned. OK what is this law for ? thou shalt not make false elohiym powers before my face? So is this law only for the human who has sinned and thus is a false elohiym power? So GOD wrote this law before Adam and Eve had even sinned yet, just in case they do sin, the laws forbidding humans becoming false elohiym powers was written during and before Sabbath came to be also. Is that fair, to speak of consequences for sinning, to a sinless couple? Is it fair to have creatures to exercise free will, to test humans to make bad decisions so they are no longer sinless? Is it fair to make something sinless choose to sin, thus exercise it's reason powers of choice? For example, I have never smoked, never take drugs like weed, and I have rarely ever drank alcohol. So as being sinless in these areas of my life, do I need a beast power to tempt me to fully experience these things in order to fully develop my experiences of RA, so I can fully repent of ever kind of RA there is on offer? Otherwise my free will is not fully developed?I would answer its wrong to assume all creatures have to have a fully developed free will and have experienced all kinds of RA, so as to experience all deepness of the love of repenting back to GOD. I am happy living with the Lord without these RA areas fully developed and thus fully repented of. Testing is not required. I do not get the reason why GOD would created a RA creature for a perfectly sinless world? And you agree with me that such creatures do not exist in the next perfect world, so why did GOD create them in this first perfect world? Like I said you do not have an origin for the Shedim. The torah does have an origin, a verse bit you ignore. cherub sinneth shedim sinneth Are parallels to humans that sinneth. ---------------- D" What is this religious double speak – what is a RA Law?R" Go forth and multiple birds eat mozzies bacteria cause disease termites eat house of wood entropy has to exist in natural law, hence a ra law. D" why do you call God’s Commandment to go forth be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth – EVIL?R" Because if you look up all the verses that use "RA" in sola Scriptoria, the word meaning is always a fruit of sinning. Never anything natural, from creation. So your premise is wrong. Natural RA laws do not exist. Such things have come into our world from the fruit of human sinnings. ------------------------ RP" Something wrong in your view and Jesus view of the chief SHEDIM? They do not match.D" Perfect matchR" How come you cannot write a discussion? Jesus said the SHEDIM is a murderer. 1) Is murder a sin Dave? 2) Do the shedim murder humans? 3) Jesus said the shedim murder humans? 4) This implies the shedim have free will to sin, or not to sin, thus can obey GOD or disobey GOD. So your views do not match Scripture. You views cannot entertain shedim disobeying God....hence you ignore the idea of shedim that sinneth.... ----------------------------- D" you shall devote them to complete destruction, … as the Lord your God has commanded devoted to destruction every city, men, women, and children. We left no survivors. their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open. Thus says the Lord of hosts, … Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infantR" Yes I read the verses you present, so what is your discussion from this Dave? You have read my discussion from these verses, what's yours? My principles of Scritpure is this Ps 131:1 ...neither do I exercise myself in great matters, or in things too high for me. Some things are hard to fathom, so I have to trust GOD is a GOD of love that supports His own laws and obeys them as He expects me to as well/ RP" Harag is different to RatsachD" Just religious double speakRP" My view of GOD is one who does TOV all the time.D" Your view is NOT even scriptural ---------------------------- fourth theme Dave reads the messengers sinned, but crosses through the angels sinned.... Ignore the cherub sinned, but agree King Tyre is like a cherub than sinned. Really Dave, you ignore the Scriptures. D" Just religious double speak to make it confusingR" I see. Is scripture too hard to read plainly is it? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Nov 30, 2022 4:48:20 GMT -5
REPEAT - STILL – NOT ONE ANSWER FROM ROBERTBeginning to think you have no honest answers – just avoid the questions – evade – just continue your attack – so academic – so one sided Why are you unable to defend your Ellen White? The answer is so obvious!----------------------------------------- 1) You said the beast was offspring of an arch angel, now you say the beast was created by GOD? How can you answer both? You do not explain? Why is lying and misrepresenting others your only refuge- Christian?To make a false witness – is a sin satan boy CORRECT – the oldest text = King Solomon - all we have on origin =Beelzebul is the offspring of an ARCH-angel Beelzebul has offspring Beelzebul required the Arch-angel Uriel permission to appear to King Solomon Beelzebul says – he is all that is left of those that came down Beelzebul = King of the Demons Solomon calls the King of the demons – the Prince of the Demons Beelzebul calls himself the RULER of the demons Validated by Jesus Christ - Matthew 10:25, 12:24,27, Mark 3:22, and Luke 11:15, 18–19 2) Explain how the beast never opposes GOD but always opposes creation? This is contradictory? So the opponent is only an opponent to Job, in Job's story? Fair enough So where would you go looking to see if "opponent" actually "opposes" GOD? Line upon line, here and there, remember, how to read Scripture? And your answer isSo according to your view, something that is with entropy, RA and dysfunction is still perfectly functional, because GOD created the beast. Where does Scripture say GOD created this beast like this? Rev 12:1-4 = Gen 1:1-2 – Col 1:16 - John 1:3 - Rev 4:11 - Isa 45:5-8 Why does Ellen White teach you to ignore and doubt the agl/NT--------------------------- All animals were originally herbivores and later became carnivores after Adam sinned. You laugh at my vegetarian sharks, and grass eating lions. YES I DO – THE WHOLE WORLD LAUGHS AT YOU AND KEN HAMM / DON PATTONI have asked you for empirical evidence – where is it? Biblical Creationism is not a science – and it has harmed the faith as much as Darwin ever has ------------------------- Not a single verse about GOD creating RA creatures in a sinless perfect world. Only Gnostic verse says this, proof you do not support Scripture. Rev 12:1-4 = Gen 1:1-2 – Col 1:16 - John 1:3 - Rev 4:11 - Isa 45:5-8 Why does Ellen White teach you to ignore and doubt the agl/NT------------------------- D"Dave says – then Adam and Eve would be standing deep in shit and dung R" You assume to know all things ? 3rd grade science = common senseD"Dave says – this decay feeds the next generation of New Life – cyclic – balance D"Nature is scripture – teaching all men the lesson of nature R" Yes , but you have assumed what you see now is how GOD originally designed things? God cursed the ground remember when Adam sinned? So why won’t you defend your Ellen White teaching that Rom 1:19-20 + Psa 19:2 is satan’s handiwork – NOT GODS - Why does Ellen White teach you to ignore and doubt the agl/NT----------------------------------------- D"I offered to study the life of King Solomon with you – you were not interested R" To seek the orgin of Shedim in Solomon's writings you go to writings not inspired, as thus assumed to be written by Solomon? What does this have to do with the life of King Solomon? Why did the wisest man that ever live become entangled with ‘other gods’ Why do you pretend scripture never happened ?------------------------- RP" Clearly in your view these shedim cannot sin because they have no free will to sin. D" You MOCK the term Free Will R" Dave free will has to be defined as the ability of a creature who once sinned, to repent and return back to GOD and become sinless once again. Is this idea correct? FREE WILL was given to man in Gen 2:17 – Choose God or choose WORLDAnd why do you say I mock the term "free will"? Rob asks " so explain these space elohiym powers, how can they choose both good and evil, if they have no intelligence to choose, no free will to sin? Intelligence has nothing to do with FREE WILLBirds can do RA, yes, but they cannot repent, hence do not have free will to seek God when they sin. DUH – birds are beast – they are animal – NOT ANGELS from GOD – or men – just BEASTYou put the beast into the same class of animals as cows, bacteria and baboons. These animals also can do RA, but they cannot repent of their RA. DUH – animals are BEAST – NOT ANGELS from GOD – or men – just BEASTGen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. H2416 – חַי - chay From H2421; alive; hence raw (flesh); fresh (plant, water, year), strong; also (as noun, especially in the feminine singular and masculine plural) life (or living thing), whether literally or figuratively: - + age, alive, appetite, (wild) beast, company, congregation, life (-time), live (-ly), living (creature, thing), maintenance, + merry, multitude, + (be) old, quick, raw, running, springing, troop. DUH – animals are BEAST – NOT ANGELS from GOD – or men – just BEAST------------------------------- Only one problem with your theory, the Bible says the SHEDIM SIN like humans sin, 1 John 3:8 1Jn 3:8 The one who practices sin is of the devil, IT SAYS – any man that chooses to sin – is like the devil – focused upon WORLD (yester ra) – NOT focused upon God WORLD or GODIn fact as we humans keeping on sinning we become children of the shedim. focused upon WORLD (yester ra) – NOT focused upon God WORLD or GODJohn says not to love the world or the things in the world, these are also sinning attitudes for humans. As well as sinning traits for the shedim. Why do you focus on the distractions of the world, when John also calls this a sinning trait, but you seem to not see this as also sinning?focused upon WORLD (yester ra) – NOT focused upon God WORLD or GOD---------------------- third theme So your view has no origin of sin. The only origin of sin you have is when Eve sinned, and Adam sinned, when distracted by the shedim placed on and in the earth to tempt/ test man's obedience to God's laws. D"You say I have no origin - then say I do have a scriptural origin Just more of your contradictions R" Dave you have no origin of the shedim, except you seek outside writings GOD did not include as inspired, because Jews do not consider them inspired from God. Why did you change your question so you could answer it differently than asked? Rev 12:1-4 = Gen 1:1-2 – Col 1:16 - John 1:3 - Rev 4:11 - Isa 45:5-8 Why does Ellen White teach you to ignore and doubt the agl/NTYou say humans are the first to have sinned. OK what is this law for ? thou shalt not make false elohiym powers before my face? REPEAT - FREE WILL was given to man in Gen 2:17 – Choose God or choose WORLDMat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. ------------------------------------- D"why do you call God’s Commandment to go forth be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth – EVIL? R" Because if you look up all the verses that use "RA" in sola Scriptoria, the word meaning is always a fruit of sinning. Never anything natural, from creation. So your premise is wrong. Natural RA laws do not exist. Such things have come into our world from the fruit of human sinnings. Why do you teach this commandment from God is EVIL And why do you declare that Psa 19:2 + Rom 1:19-20 is proof of your satan as god You are consumed by your satan god – it is all you focus on You give your praise to the wrong god Why does Ellen White teach God commanded man and animal to go forth and be evil The more of her you teach us – the more satanic she sounds------------------------ When Jesus was speaking of the chief SHEDIM, how come Jesus spoke of the SHEDIM as a father over the Jews, and a father of lies and a murderer from the beginning, if this creature is a mere distracting agent to test man? Something wrong in your view and Jesus view of the chief SHEDIM? They do not match. Perfect match Spiritual relationship with God / Communion – or practice a worldly religion of do and don’t lawsD" Perfect match R" How come you cannot write a discussion? Evidently you cannot tell the difference between worshiping God in spirit – in communion – vrs- just practicing do and don’t laws----------------------------- D"you shall devote them to complete destruction, … as the Lord your God has commanded devoted to destruction every city, men, women, and children. We left no survivors. their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open. Thus says the Lord of hosts, … Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant R" Yes I read the verses you present, so what is your discussion from this Dave? You have read my discussion from these verses, what's yours? My principles of Scritpure is this Ps 131:1 ...neither do I exercise myself in great matters, or in things too high for me. WHAT A COP OUT - PRETEND SCRIPTURE IS NOT CORRECTYou need scripture to be error to keep your Ellen White right – who gives you the authority to rewrite scripture – satan boy
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2022 15:51:15 GMT -5
Dave, you do not answer my post, only the bits you can answer, and ignore the rest.
Dave begins with "REPEAT - STILL – NOT ONE ANSWER FROM ROBERT Beginning to think you have no honest answers – just avoid the questions – evade – just continue your attack – so academic – so one sided
Why are you unable to defend your Ellen White? The answer is so obvious!"
Rob replies, I will answer your questions after you answer mine, I will show you the bits you ignore again, most of my post you ignore:
1) Rob posted earlier but Dave ignored the post: So according to your view, something that is with entropy, RA and dysfunction is still perfectly functional, because GOD created the beast.
Where does Scripture say GOD created this beast like this?
Dave replies that GOD created SHEDIM
Rev 12:1-4 = Gen 1:1-2 – Col 1:16 - John 1:3 - Rev 4:11 - Isa 45:5-8 Why does Ellen White teach you to ignore and doubt the agl/NT
R" got nothing to do with Ellen White, your verses do not speak of GOD creating shedim, because shedim is a title, not a creature kind. Sure GOD created all creature kinds, such as cherubs. But GOD never created shedim, or SHAD, these means "breast" and a breast belongs to a creature, DUH.
Some of the angels that sinned drink from their own breasts, hence become shedim, or the term refers to humans drinking from sinning angels, in order to appease their own human sinnings, because the sinning angels help the humans to sin as well. ----------------------
2) Rob posted earlier but Dave ignored the post: Only one problem with your theory, the Bible says the SHEDIM SIN like humans sin, 1 John 3:8
SO stop making excuses for the shedim, these creatures DO have free will to sin and thus repent from sin, but they choose not to, their conscious is seared with a hot iron.
R" not a single comment from Dave, because he cannot fathom a shedim that sins like humans sin.
D"1Jn 3:8 The one who practices sin is of the devil, IT SAYS – any man that chooses to sin – is like the devil –
R" Typical Dave, you do not include the rest of the verse, only the bit you like, ignore the bit you do not like....
What about
"the shedim sinneth".... comments on this verse bit?
Its a parallel.
The humans sinneth as the shedim sinneth.
Do you agree with this verse?
Hence shedim have free will to sin?
R" totally ignored by Dave. Can't answer the verse.
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3) Rob posted earlier but Dave ignored the post:
Is it fair to make something sinless choose to sin, thus exercise it's reason powers of choice?
For example, I have never smoked, never take drugs like weed, and I have rarely ever drank alcohol. So as being sinless in these areas of my life, do I need a beast power to tempt me to fully experience these things in order to fully develop my experiences of RA, so I can fully repent of ever kind of RA there is on offer? Otherwise my free will is not fully developed?
I would answer its wrong to assume all creatures have to have a fully developed free will and have experienced all kinds of RA, so as to experience all deepness of the love of repenting back to GOD.
I am happy living with the Lord without these RA areas fully developed and thus fully repented of. Testing is not required.
I do not get the reason why GOD would created a RA creature for a perfectly sinless world?
And you agree with me that such creatures do not exist in the next perfect world, so why did GOD create them in this first perfect world?
Like I said you do not have an origin for the Shedim.
The torah does have an origin, a verse bit you ignore.
cherub sinneth shedim sinneth Are parallels to humans that sinneth.
R" Not a single comment by Dave, can't answer my questions about free will, and why testing of free will is even necessary for a sinless creature. -----------------------------------
4) Rob posted earlier but Dave ignored the post:
Jesus said the SHEDIM is a murderer.
1) Is murder a sin Dave? 2) Do the shedim murder humans? 3) Jesus said the shedim murder humans? 4) This implies the shedim have free will to sin, or not to sin, thus can obey GOD or disobey GOD.
So your views do not match Scripture. You views cannot entertain shedim disobeying God....hence you ignore the idea of shedim that sinneth....
R" Dave makes lots of comments of Beelzebub and Solomon, but does not comment on Rob's questions of Beelzebub being a murderer of mankind....
That makes Beelzebub a sinning shedim....
You state King Solomon wrote of this term? Where?
2Ki 1:3 But the angel of the LORD said to Elijah the Tishbite, Arise, go up to meet the messengers of the king of Samaria, and say unto them, Is it not because there is not a God in Israel, that ye go to enquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron?
The only place where such a term exists in the Hebrew torah?
Beelzebub also plays a significant role in some pseudepigraphical stories, such as the Testament of Solomon. Whilst it is not considered to be biblically cannon, it does feature a very interesting tale of Solomon and how he bends the will of the demon to do his bidding. He questions him, asking why he lives the life he leads. To which Beelzebub replies saying,
“Because I alone and left of the angels of heaven that came down. For I was the first angel in the first heaven being entitled Beelzeboul. But now I control all those who are bound in Tartarus. But I too have a child and he haunts the Red Sea. And on any suitable occasion he comes up to meet me again, being subject to me and reveals to me what he has done, and I support him.”—Testament of Solomon, verse 26!
R" This dribble, uninspired actually admits the chief demon was once an angel, the first angel, so sins and falls to hell in the earth.
Notice the mission of this beast:
“I destroy kings. I allow myself with foreign tyrants. And my demons I set on to men, so that the latter may believe in them and be lost. And the chosen servants of God, priests, and faithful men, I excite unto desires for wicked sins, evil heresies, and lawless deeds; and they obey me, and I bear them on to destruction, and I inspire men with envy and [desire for] murder, and for wars and sodomy, and other evil things. And I will destroy the world.” R" Nothing exists in the Hebrew torah, only these pseudepigraphical stories, such as the Testament of Solomon. -----------------------------
6) I gave Dave answers, but my answers are ignored
D"I have asked you for empirical evidence – where is it? R" Most creatures on earth are herbivores
Most bacteria are free living Most worms are free living
The ground from which Adam came from was reddish brown, not black with humus or organic matter.
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7) Dave again avoids answering my questions and posts different theme
D" Why did the wisest man that ever live become entangled with ‘other gods’ Why do you pretend scripture never happened ? R" Solomon fell into sin, by marrying foreign women, who worshipped shedim. My question to you is, where did the shedim come from originally? ---------------------
8) Again my definition of free will is ignored by Dave, not a single comment, only this...
D" Intelligence has nothing to do with FREE WILL R" Since you mock my comments about free will, what is free will according to your view than Dave. And try to add the words "sinning and repenting" in your reply. -------------------------------------
9) Rob posted earlier but Dave ignored the post:
The torah is inspired because GOD wanted this message preserved, not all the messages written by all the Jews, including Solomon who we know fell out of favour with GOD, but later repented of his sinnings.
The torah we have today is inspired because GOD preserved it in this way, you assume GOD is almighty, than can't GOD preserve HIS message, as torah, that is common to all people? Yet you say the Roman Catholics are stronger than GOD is, and edited GOD's message? I do not see this. GOD is bigger than humans, and entropy beasts, so GOD preserved His message as His inspired torah for all humans to read, but you think GOD is not powerful to preserve and that GOD makes mistakes in His message, and that GOD even has some bastard verses, so you change them and even ignore verses you do not like.
If God is almighty than the torah God presents to the entire world is inspired and almighty too.
The fact you seek other writings tells readers you consider God cannot preserve His message in His torah, so you seek answers elsewhere? ----------------------
10) Dave avoids my terms of free will and adds his own
D:"REPEAT - FREE WILL was given to man in Gen 2:17 – Choose God or choose WORLD Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. R" So man just chooses the world or GOD, the world has no master or ruler in the world? Only creatures of RA, who test the free will to choose the world?
Your a Greek scholar, what Hebrew word is Mammon?
I do not see free will as a choice, since when is sinning a choice? If Adam chooses to eat of the fruit, He becomes non-existent, some choice that is....
Choosing different fruits to eat, is choice, mango, apple plum, apricot all different fruits of TOV.
What you term free will, is not choice, but SIN. And sinning is not a choice, Scripture calls sinnings a transgression, to disobey, to be missing God's power. -------------------
Once you become a sinning human, free will is a choice, because we can repent from our sins, and thus seek GOD rather than sin.
But a sinless human, does not exercise free will to choose to sin. Sins never arise a second time. So a sinless human in the next creation, never chooses with free will, to sin. God will make that person suddenly cease to exist, so free will in not a choice now ever again, no pardon for sinning a second time, hence to disobey a second time is not allowed.
You need to admit the shedim sinneth as John says. You do not have to follow Scripture on this, but at least admit that is what John and Ezekiel is saying. You ignore bits of verses on purpose. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 1, 2022 0:57:33 GMT -5
Only one problem with your theory, the Bible says the SHEDIM SIN like humans sin, 1 John 3:8 R” Rob posted earlier but Dave ignored the post: R" not a single comment from Dave, because he cannot fathom a shedim that sins like humans sin. R" totally ignored by Dave. Can't answer the verse.
D"1Jn 3:8 The one who practices sin is of the devil, D" IT SAYS – any man that chooses to sin – is like the devil –First you say I didn’t answer – not a single comment Then you post my response Everyone can see just how full of hate and you are – attack – lie – misrepresent – it is your only refugegrammarist.com/usage/simile/A simile is a figure of speech that is not meant to be understood by its literal meaning. We will examine the definition of simile, where the word came from and some examples of its use in sentences.
A simile is a phrase used in a sentence that is a comparison of one thing with something else using the word like or the word as. A simile may compare two things with qualities that do not seem related, though there must be some similarity that is either literal or figurative. Writers use similes in prose and in poetry as literary devices used to paint vivid imagery. Similes are used to communicate to the listener or reader an idea or emphasize an attribute, sometimes through exaggeration, in a few amount of words.
sim·i·le a figure of speech involving the comparison of one thing with another thing of a different kind, used to make a description more emphatic or vivid (e.g., as brave as a lion, crazy like a fox ). She is as kind as an angel. Love is like a battlefield. My dog eats like a pig. My dog is as brave as a lion Robert claims this mandates that all lions are dogs satan is crazy like a fox Robert claims that foxes are satanShe is as kind as an angel. Robert claims that all angels must be female Love is like a battlefield. Robert claims that the horrors of war is loveMy dog eats like a pig. Robert claims all pigs are actually dogsREPEAT - D"1Jn 3:8 The one who practices sin is of the devil, IT SAYS – any man that chooses to sin – is like the devil – Robert claims that all devils must act like men
Ezk 28 says that the King of Tyre is like a cherub (covering his kingdom with protection) and it says that this [cherub (covering his kingdom with protection)] - who is the King of Tyre sinned Robert claims that the cherub comes alive with it very own theologyWhat about "the shedim sinneth".... comments on this verse bit?1Jn 3:8 he who is doing the sin, of the devil he is, because from the beginning the devil doth sin; Answered 10 Million times 2- who is the shedim that sin from the beginning. Ezk 28 says that the King of Tyre is like a cherub (covering his kingdom with protection)
and it says that this [cherub (covering his kingdom with protection)] - who is the King of Tyre WAS PERFECT IN ALL HIS WAYS - and GOD FRIENDYou try to argue that your satan god was perfect in all his ways before he recreated himself Now you try to argue that your satan god sinned from the beginning You preach a contradiction with arrogance------------------------------- 3) Rob posted earlier but Dave ignored the post: Is it fair to make something sinless choose to sin, thus exercise it's reason powers of choice? Was it fair that God gave man the ability to sin? Was it fair for God to give Adam his first commandment – Gen 2:17 Was it fair that God gave man Free Will?
Free Will is a gift The son that stays home is loved – But it is the Prodigal Son that is rewarded – because he returned of his own Free Will Without choice – man cannot choose---------------------------------------- 4) Rob posted earlier but Dave ignored the post: Jesus said the SHEDIM is a murderer. 1) Is murder a sin Dave? For man – yes For animals – No it is lunch For God it is Righteous Judgment
2) Do the shedim murder humans? Not directly - they promote death through the WORLD Do you have an example of a demon that kills a man? – I don’t I only have the commandment of God saying – do your worst – BUT DO NOT KILL HIM3) Jesus said the shedim murder humans? Please quote the verse – to prove you are not making up words for Jesus Christ – that would be blasphemy4) This implies the shedim have free will to sin, or not to sin, thus can obey GOD or disobey GOD. So your views do not match Scripture. You views cannot entertain shedim disobeying God....hence you ignore the idea of shedim that sinneth.... YOU ARE JUST MAKING UP STUFF – WHY IS LYING AND MISSREPRESENTING OTHERS an SDA Christian habit?--------------------------------------- R" Dave makes lots of comments of Beelzebub and Solomon, but does not comment on Rob's questions of Beelzebub being a murderer of mankind.... DUH – DUH – and double DUH – the WORLD will consume you into dust
That makes Beelzebub a sinning shedim.... What makes beelzebul a sinning angels is that he was the leader of the bane elohiym of Gen 6CORRECT – the oldest text = King Solomon - all we have on origin =Beelzebul is the offspring of an ARCH-angel Beelzebul has offspring Beelzebul required the Arch-angel Uriel permission to appear to King Solomon Beelzebul says – he is all that is left of those that came down Beelzebul = King of the Demons Solomon calls the King of the demons – the Prince of the Demons Beelzebul calls himself the RULER of the demons Validated by Jesus Christ - Matthew 10:25, 12:24,27, Mark 3:22, and Luke 11:15, 18–19 You state King Solomon wrote of this term? Where? 2Ki 1:3 - The only place where such a term exists in the Hebrew torah? YEP – Beelzebub is an ‘other god’ of the Levant – the Philistines of the Gaza Strip Just like Baal – Molech – Chermosh – Dogon – (33 called by name within the ahl/OT)
Beelzebub replies saying, “Because I alone and left of the angels of heaven that came down. –Gen 6For I was the first angel in the first heaven being entitled Beelzeboul. But now I control all those who are bound in Tartarus. YES – he was an archon-angel – now leader of those trapped within Tartarus2Pe 2:4 For if God messengers who sinned did not spare, but with chains of thick gloom, having cast them down to Tartarus, did deliver them to judgment, having been reserved, YES – leader of the bane elohiym of Gen 6 But I too have a child and he haunts the Red Sea. And on any suitable occasion he comes up to meet me again, being subject to me and reveals to me what he has done, and I support him.”—Testament of Solomon, verse 26! YES – the archon have offspring – just like all beast Notice the mission of this beast: “I destroy kings. I allow myself with foreign tyrants. YES – they are the ‘other gods’ of the Levant - anti-Isreal And my demons I set on to men, so that the latter may believe in them and be lost. YES – the BEAST oppose man – the WORLD opposes man – Gen 3:15And the chosen servants of God, priests, and faithful men, I excite unto desires for wicked sins, evil heresies, and lawless deeds; and they obey me, and I bear them on to destruction, and I inspire men with envy and [desire for] murder, and for wars and sodomy, and other evil things. And I will destroy the world.” YES – the closer to God you become – the more the archon are in your faceJob 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, The lesson of Job – test him and see if he breaksThe Gospel of Thomas(82) Jesus said, "He who is near me is near the fire, and he who is far from me is far from the kingdom."------------------------------- Biblical Creationism Dave says it is an insult to any intelligent person educated beyond a 3rd grade level Today – science has rediscovered the Intelligent Design – and therefore an Intelligent Designer Today – the evidence validates Incremental Creation Today – museums are filled with the empirical evidence D"I have asked you for empirical evidence – where is it? R" Most creatures on earth are herbivores Most bacteria are free living Most worms are free living The ground from which Adam came from was reddish brown, What is this Mr scientist – Mr detail person – is this an answer?Where is your evidence that There was no entropy before Gen 3 There was no decay before Gen 3 There was no death before Gen 3 NO STAR EVER IGNITED UNTIL GEN 3 --------------------------- 8) Again my definition of free will is ignored by Dave, not a single comment, only this... D" Intelligence has nothing to do with FREE WILL R" Since you mock my comments about free will, what is free will according to your view than Dave. And try to add the words "sinning and repenting" in your reply. FREE WILL was given to man in Gen 2:17 – Choose God or choose WORLDAnd why do you say I mock the term "free will"? Rob asks " so explain these space elohiym powers, how can they choose both good and evil, if they have no intelligence to choose, no free will to sin? Intelligence has nothing to do with FREE WILLBirds can do RA, yes, but they cannot repent, hence do not have free will to seek God when they sin. DUH – birds are beast – they are animal – NOT ANGELS from GOD – or men – just BEASTYou put the beast into the same class of animals as cows, bacteria and baboons. These animals also can do RA, but they cannot repent of their RA. DUH – animals are BEAST – NOT ANGELS from GOD – or men – just BEASTGen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. H2416 – חַי - chay From H2421; alive; hence raw (flesh); fresh (plant, water, year), strong; also (as noun, especially in the feminine singular and masculine plural) life (or living thing), whether literally or figuratively: - + age, alive, appetite, (wild) beast, company, congregation, life (-time), live (-ly), living (creature, thing), maintenance, + merry, multitude, + (be) old, quick, raw, running, springing, troop. DUH – animals are BEAST – NOT ANGELS from GOD – or men – just BEAST free will is ignored by Dave, not a single comment,10) Dave avoids my terms of free will and adds his ownD:"REPEAT - FREE WILL was given to man in Gen 2:17 – Choose God or choose WORLD Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. R" So man just chooses the world or GOD, the world has no master or ruler in the world? Only creatures of RA, who test the free will to choose the world?DUH – WHY DO YOU HAVE TO MAKE UP STUFF – are you that incapable of having an honest discussionYour a Greek scholar, what Hebrew word is Mammon? G3126 - μαμμωνᾶς - mammōnas Of Chaldee origin (confidence, that is, figuratively wealth, personified); wealth personified – (yester ra) materialism – worldly things – selfishness - mineI do not see free will as a choice, - then you are a robotfree will is ignored by Dave, not a single comment,LIE AND MISSREPRESENT - it seems to be the only method of Christin witness you have? Or must you become a Don Patton buffoon to belong to the SDA Your honesty is NOT endearingAnd try to add the words "sinning and repenting" in your reply.When Eve chose the fruit (WORLD) instead of choosing to obey God - she sinned The definition of a Prodigal Son - is the son that REPENTS and chooses to return to the Lord by his own choice----------------------- 9) Rob posted earlier but Dave ignored the post: The torah is inspired because GOD wanted this message preserved, not all the messages written by all the Jews, including Solomon who we know fell out of favour with GOD, but later repented of his sinnings. 2Ti 3:15 and because from a babe the Holy Writings thou hast known, which are able to make thee wise—to salvation, through faith that is in Christ Jesus; 2Ti 3:16 every Writing is God-breathed, and profitable for teaching, for conviction, for setting aright, for instruction that is in righteousness, 2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be fitted—for every good work having been completed. DOES NOT SAY ahl’OT ONLY – it says all writings IF – you do not see God in every math book – every physic book – every biology book – you are not paying attention – Rom 1:19-20 – Psa 19:2 – ALL CREATION TESTIFIES TO THE ONE TRUE CREATORScripture says - 1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 1Th 5:21 all things prove; that which is good hold fast; 1Th 5:21 but test all things, hold fast to what is good, Scripture mentions 35-50 other 'books' that are valuable for information - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-canonical_books_referenced_in_the_BibleRobert says -Don't look at it - don't read it - it is all error - even if it was written by Luke - James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, or Thomas Don't look at it - the revelation of an Intelligent Designer from science is false Don't look at it - the fossil record validates - both Incremental Creation and the ORDER of Gen 1 Don't look at it - astrophysics validates the order of Gen 1 and WEDD + FD-WEDT Robert says all those 35-50 other 'books' that are valuable for information - are all error and cannot be trustedJudeo-Cristianity teaches that all creation testifies to the One true Creator Robert teaches that all of God creation didn't even last one Day - all fell - all corrupted in Gen 3 -------------------- "REPEAT - STILL – NOT ONE ANSWER FROM ROBERTBeginning to think you have no honest answers – just avoid the questions – evade – just continue your attack – so academic – so one sided Why are you unable to defend your Ellen White? The answer is so obvious!"
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Post by Dave on Dec 1, 2022 2:53:28 GMT -5
Your inability to respond is obvious Ellen White SDA theology is built upon your idea that satan is a god in heaven at war with the creator over God’s right to rule His own Creation Ellen White SDA theology is built upon the idea a COSMIC BATTEL BETWEEN SATAN AND GOD If God is actually absolutely sovereign and above all alone on His throne And satan – is just a BEAST of this WORLD – a thing of physical creation And the “emenity” of Gen 3:15 is between man and World + man and ARCHON (satan’s seed) H342 – אֵיבָה - From H340; hostility: - enmity, hatred. And the CONTEST of Gen 3:15 … between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. WAS / IS ESTABLISHED BY GOD – set in motion by God – God’s Plan / God’s Will THEN ALL OF ELLEN WHITES ROMAN SATANOLOGY FAILS and you must answer why your SDA advent math comes from Islam presdicting the comming of the Islamic Messiah------------------------- YES – the accuser / opposer of man is very real – OUR REAL STRUGGLE – Eph 6:12 Rev 12:3 – during creation – the BEAST APPEARED Gen 1:2 - DARKNESS – choshek – appeared within God’s earth of Gen 1:1 (material creation) Gen 1:4 = a separation event – includes entropy Gen 1:5 = a separation event – includes entropy Gen 1:6 = a separation event – includes entropy Gen 1:7 = a separation event – includes entropy Gen 1:8 = a separation event – includes entropy Gen 1:9 = a separation event – includes entropy Gen 1:10 = a separation event – includes entropy + Planet Earth Gen 1:16 = a separation event – includes entropy – did our Sun ignite = includes entropy Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. Why – is there no scripture that says – God said let there be the Beast Answer – because the BEAST is not a direct creation – it is a by-product / inherent to physical creation No verse that says let there be a Super Nova – yet they exist No verse saying let there be earthquakes – yet they exist No verse saying let there be viruses – or any microorganism – yet they exist All of it – is a necessary component of balance / Intelligent Design God created His creation exactly as he wanted – and established LAWS 1st Law of thermodynamics = Energy cannot be creation or destroyed – only translated or tranmutted 1st D singularity (E)) can be translated (2D invisible spirit c2) or transmuted into (3D visible m – the image) Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the(2D spiritual) heaven and the (3D material) earth. 2nd Law of Thermodynamics – in a closed system entropy increases Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. The woman = the Holy Spirit = the Womb of all creation The Beast = entropy awaiting to devour whatever she gives birth to The BEAST sinned against the entirety = stars – rocks – dirt – atoms – molecules – matter = entropy God has messengers in heaven (ethereal) – that serve and praise = angels Yes they have intelligence to act within their nature – there are many ways to serve and praise God made man of matter (corporeal) - and spirit (ethereal) - and gave man the Free Will to choose between World (corporeal) -or- God (ethereal) This is the nature of man – (yester ra – WORLD) –or- (yester tov – God) Man is the only creature with a (yester tov) CONSCIOUS – a part that knows better YES – man has the intelligence to act within our nature - I know what I should do, but I continually do what I do not want to do – Paul Romans Chapter 7 – oh miserable man am I A beautiful nymphomaniac woman tried to seduce the local priest or pastor – as she put her moves on him – if he has an erection – is he a sinner or just an animal If he is a sinner – is it possible to be a Christian male at age 18 – 30 (maybe 66) (yester ra) animal – worldly – self-preservation – survival of the species – lust / greed / want / desire (yester tov) spiritual – the part that knows better – the part that makes man different than any other living creature Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (living creature – animal – yester ra) + (a LIVING SOUL) = man becomes a LIVING “BEING” Ecc 3:16 And moreover I saw under the sun the place of judgment, that wickedness was there; and the place of righteousness, that iniquity was there. Ecc 3:17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work. Ecc 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. (yester ra)Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. Ecc 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man (SOUL the home of yester tov) that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? Ecc 3:22 Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him? for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him? As you see you own life in play back – how will you judge yourself?2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. The BEAST – the serpent race – that we call devils and satanas are not fully ethereal – they are made with some matter – and they are not fully corporeal They exist – in-between – they are all around us invisibly – and can appear in a form to spook / manipulate us Your Jewish posting said – they are incomplete – not fully made correct One Gnostic text calls them an abortion They have intelligenceGen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. YES – they have the ability to act within their nature – to tear down – devour – consume – entropy YES – they are our real struggle on so many levels – on any level you can imagine YES – you must be sharp – smart – quick thinking to be a con man – deceiver YES – they know their own fate YET – do not repent – cannot repent or scripture falls apart 1Jn 3:8 The one who practices sin is of the devil, IT SAYS – any man that chooses to sin – is like the devil – focused upon WORLD (yester ra) – NOT focused upon God WORLD or GODIn fact as we humans keeping on sinning we become children of the shedim. focused upon WORLD (yester ra) – NOT focused upon God WORLD or GODJohn says not to love the world or the things in the world, these are also sinning attitudes for humans. As well as sinning traits for the shedim. Why do you focus on the distractions of the world, when John also calls this a sinning trait, but you seem to not see this as also sinning?focused upon WORLD (yester ra) – NOT focused upon God WORLD or GOD Do you believe what John wrote – or is he a Gnostic heretic that writes error GOD IS ABSOLUTE – GOD KNEW WHAT WOULD HAPPEN AS SOON AS HE GAME MAN A CHOICE – ENTROPY GOD ALLOWED THAT CHOICE TO ESTABLISH THE CONTEST OF GEN 3 - GOD IS ABSOLUTE – GOD KNEW WHAT WOULD HAPPEN Gen 11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. CONTEST RESET Gen 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. GOD IS ABSOLUTE – GOD KNEW WHAT WOULD HAPPEN Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: What is the lesson of ENTROPYAnswer – one day I will expire – we will expire – this physical planet will expire – even the sun will expire THEN WHAT? – stop pause and consider – do I need to atone (yester tov) conscious speaking Cycle Of Life – birth – growth – death – rebirth to new life Birth – growth = stop pause and consider – do I need to atone (yester tov) conscious speaking Your response affects the rest of the equation – death – rebirth to new life GOD IS ABSOLUTE – GOD KNEW WHAT WOULD HAPPEN Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. All God’s Plan – all God’s Will
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2022 16:32:58 GMT -5
Greetings Dave I must congratulate you for attempting to explain yourself with a discussion. That is nice Dave quotes a secular human comment upon poetry, that was originally created by GOD " A simile may compare two things with qualities that do not seem related, though there must be some similarity that is either literal or figurative." If you look at God's use of poetry, His similes are never figurative or imaginary in their usage. God uses similes as a way to explain things humans do not understand in our literal physical world. Ex 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my TORAH, or no. Here is my faviourite poetry simile for God's messages. "rain bread" What a strange picture. The idea of "rain" and "bread" is they both flow downwards from heaven to earth, the same idea that the "teachings" are also "throw downwards to the learner" (I get this idea from reading Jeff Benner) The TORAH, is a simile of RAIN and of BREAD. All of these things here are literal and can be understood literally. Thus drinking and eating the TORAH does in fact literally support you with power. I quote Dave's source " Writers use similes in prose and in poetry as literary devices used to paint vivid imagery. Similes are used to communicate to the listener or reader an idea or emphasize an attribute, sometimes through exaggeration, in a few amount of words." I doubt God's poetry is exaggaration or imaginary or vivid with the idea to impress the reader. God's poetry is used to parallel the literal world with God's world that humans do not understand. D"s atan is crazy like a fox Robert claims that foxes are satanR" I have never said this Dave, so why do you mock? The TORAH is a simile of BREAD. This does not make ordinary bread I bake into a supernatural powerful teaching from God. I never said what you are implying. In Ezekiel 28 is speaks of King Tyre Eze 28:2 Son of man, say unto the "melek " prince of Tyrus, Using the term "nagiyd" or "prince". Than there is another passage about a different personEze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, Using the term "melek" or "reigner". Why are there two different titles spoken to Tyre, first the prince of Tyre and than the Reigner of Tyre? Technically this message is NOT a simile, but a parallel, explaining the power over a prince or king.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created God is talking about a special and holy angel appointed to guard the stones of fire (whatever that means?) This cherub angel was perfect and sinless. Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. Notice the cherub angel decides to sin later, as the free will mind can reason to do this, ie SIN. Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. God explains a little of the nature of this cherub angel as a REIGNER, and GOD casts the sinning angel to the ground, before other REIGNERS, that they behold his sins. (So there are reigners of other unfallen worlds who look upon this sinning cherub who is a reigner also of his kingdom, earth, where he gets humans to sin like he also sins) Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more. GOD describes the sinning this REIGNER does and so also fortells the punishment is to make the REIGNER into ASHES on the earth, so he REIGNS no more. ------------- Now I tried to explain to you how this term is also used in Rev, where humans in power are also controlled by the REIGNER who gives them power. Re 13:4 And they (humans) worshipped the dragon (this sinning REIGNER in Ezekiel 28) which gave power unto the beast (a human one world order power): ------------------------- D"REPEAT - D" 1Jn 3:8 The one who practices sin is of the devil, IT SAYS – any man that chooses to sin – is like the devil – Robert claims that all devils must act like menR" First this verse of JOHN is NOT a simile nor a poem, it's a parallel, a common poetry term used to describe God's messages. Parallels. Yes Dave, all devils sin, just as many humans also sin. The sin is done by reasoning in the mind to negate GOD's power and do things in your own human power, often the actions are breaking the faith promises of love in the ten commandments. D" Robert claims that the cherub comes alive with it very own theologyR" A REIGNER is a different creature to a PRINCE, both over TYRE. Explain the reason for using TWO titles for TYRE? One is a PRINCE and other is a REIGNER? The passages for each are very different. And the passages do not MIX terms. D" Answered 10 Million timesR" Readers take note of Dave's answer to the "shedim sins" DAVE QUOTES Gnostic writings " When he said this, he sinned against the entirety."
So the shedim sinned... (But this is NOT a real sin, like humans sin, only arrogance and ignorance, like entropy. ) D" When he said this, he sinned against the entirety. Sinned against – matter – dirt – rocks – air – planets – stars – galaxies = ENTROPYR" I see, we have a new definition of sin, one can also sin against creation, but GOD does not see this as sinning against GOD? So a shark eating a fish is not sin, not missing the perfect functional powers of a perfect functional DESIGNER? A animal treating on an ant, so it dies is NOT considered a SIN either, just entropy against creation. ------------------------- D" You try to argue that your satan god was perfect in all his ways before he recreated himself Now you try to argue that your satan god sinned from the beginning You preach a contradiction with arroganceR" Are you being difficult? A cherub was once sinless and decides over time to sin, does not require recreating yourself. Your foot does not change to new feet, your wings do not change either. When you sin, the glow of GOD over you will leave you and you become a creature of literal darkness because God leaves you, is about the only major changes in the creature that sins. When it says the cherub sinned from the beginning, this is correct. How far back does the term beginning go? Not very far. Pr 8:22 ¶ The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. Here is Jesus-YHWH with Father-YHWH from eternity before earth time began. So scripture can speak of times before the beginning of earth time. SO the cherub was perfect and sinless during this time in heaven (I assume other creations, not ONE like Dave does) Eventually the cherub sins and thus is banished to a planet of solid fluid. After a while GOD decides to make a new creation over this solid fluid to make witnesses for sin, sinless creatures who have never seen sinning before. So TIME begins on this solid fluid rock, dry land termed earth appears, and humans are created not knowing the sinning angels, nor experiencing sinning angels before, and all the other REIGNERS watch. So yes the sinning angels sinneth from the beginning, is pefectly correct, referencing earth time. It's not a contradiction either, as the beginning does not refer to the absolute times of owlam, time before earth time began. D" Without choice – man cannot chooseR" My point is it is not necessary to choose. I choose not to smoke. I choose not to take drugs like weed I choose not to murder others I choose not to drink alcohol I choose not to be vacinnated anymore. I choose not to drink town water with floride and aluminium in it. You do not have to experience evil, to know evil, is my point. Sometimes choosing not to choose is a better option. The other son that choose not to sin, is greater in his love than the son that chose to sin but later repented of that sin. For one thing the son that did not sin lives with his estate, the sinning son has nothing to live on anymore. RP" 1) Is murder a sin Dave?D" For man – yes For animals – No it is lunch For God it is Righteous Judgment
R" Hmm? I would disagree For man - yes For animals - yes, but their sins are not recorded morally against them. For GOD - yes if GOD sinned, but GOD does not sin, nor is seen breaking HIS own laws of love. However God does remove his gift of living in humans who if allowed to live more will unfairly wound others. So His judgements are fair but complex to fathom. RP" 2) Do the shedim murder humans?D" Not directly - they promote death through the WORLD Do you have an example of a demon that kills a man? – I don’t I only have the commandment of God saying – do your worst – BUT DO NOT KILL HIMR" Hmm? Jesus said the chief shedim is a murderer? So I have to support Scripture, so the shedim do "wound" humans, in removing their salvation ability from them, so they cannot choose to be saved. This is what the OPPOSER wanted to do to JOB, remove his salvation by getting JOB to sin. And the SHEDIM entered humans to slay JOB's children, is also murder, directly or by association. It's still murder. An accurser and a prosecutor of humans, are different terms. Your prosecutor term is bogus. The SHEDIM is a murderer, is what Jesus said. RP" 3) Jesus said the shedim murder humans?D" Please quote the verse – to prove you are not making up words for Jesus Christ – that would be blasphemyR" Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, Jesus is making parallels to humans that seek to kill Jesus. Jesus says the SHEDIM does lusts like the Jews that seek Jesus to kill Jesus, also do the same lusts. Greed, power, covet, murder lusts. Jesus also says the SHEDIM was a murderer from the beginning, from when earth time began. ----------------- D" What is this Mr scientist – Mr detail person – is this an answer?R" A big topic, one topic at a time Dave. ------------------- Dave defines FREE WILL " When Eve chose the fruit (WORLD) instead of choosing to obey God - she sinned The definition of a Prodigal Son - is the son that REPENTS and chooses to return to the Lord by his own choice" R" How is this any different to my ideas of FREE WILL? I do not mock your terms, they are the same as mine? SO Alex the African parrot could by his reasoning child like brain throw a tantrum and refuse to answer the questions of it's owner, and hence sin. But it's not a recorded sin, but a sin all the same. The owner speaks nicely again and this time the parrot decides to answer colours correctly "that one is blue" "that one in pink" But the repenting parrot cannot gain salvation from heaven because such kindness is not granted to these animals, that sin and can also reason like humans can. You have the only creature capable of free will to choose salvation is humans. Hmm? Not so, because the cherub that was perfect and later sinned, is written in a way that the cherub is accountable for its sin ijn Ezekiel 28, the REIGNER of Tyre, not the PRINCE of Tyre, two different passages about TWO DIFFERENT creatures over TYRE. ----------------------- D" DOES NOT SAY ahl’OT ONLY – it says all writings IF – you do not see God in every math book – every physic book – every biology book – you are not paying attention – Rom 1:19-20 – Psa 19:2 – ALL CREATION TESTIFIES TO THE ONE TRUE CREATORR" ALL writings, including secular ones written by man? I don't think so Dave. Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. THis verse limits truth to TORAH and witnesses to TORAH only. D" Scripture mentions 35-50 other 'books' that are valuable for informationR" SO this verse is another verse you ignore is that it? SO sola Scriptoria is NOT a Dave view? D" Robert teaches that all of God creation didn't even last one Day - all fell - all corrupted in Gen 3R" You mock and misquote me again. I remember speaking to you once about SNOW, and SNOW is created by GOD during our SININING world, yet lovely things are made by GOD despite our humans sinnings. So is RAIN, and decomposers, and making spiders use their webs to limits flies. There is much order in the fallen world, due to mans sin and God cursing the world, but GOD did not leave our world to chaos. So what you say is bogus, I do not say this at all. ------------------- D"and you must answer why your SDA advent math comes from Islam presdicting the comming of the Islamic MessiahR" Another topic, one topic at a time. Answer this one first. Who are these false elohiym powers man was to not worship. They cannot be human powers, because the commands existed when first Sabbath existed and man (Adam annd Eve) had done no sinning. SO something had to have done sinning in order to become a false elohiym power? SO who are these sinning false elohiym powers? And to be sinning creatures in the royal ten commandments, such creatures have to be accountable for moral sinnings, not your entropy creation thing, the command is in the royal law, not the laws of creation. DUH SO who are these shedim that sin, before man even did the first Sabbath rest law. Dave cannot answer this question. Jews cannot answer this question. Torah answers the question though. The REIGNER over TYRE, not the PRINCE over Tyre, is spoken much as a Cherub that sinned. This is not really a simile, but a parallel, a comment about a completely different creature. D" Gen 1:2 - DARKNESS – choshek – appeared within God’s earth of Gen 1:1 (material creation) Gen 1:4 = a separation event – includes entropyR" Cannot agree with you, because the command not to worship false elohiym powers is inside the FIRST of the moral laws of SIN, not some natural laws of creation. DUH Dave, you goofed. Stop twisting Scripture. Who are these creatures who morally sin and break the ten comandments of love? D" Why – is there no scripture that says – God said let there be the Beast Answer – because the BEAST is not a direct creation – it is a by-product / inherent to physical creationR" SO Dave's excuse why the BEAST was not created directly... not in TORAH, but only in GNOSTIC? Really Dave, you do not follow TORAH at all. ] D "Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
The woman = the Holy Spirit = the Womb of all creation The Beast = entropy awaiting to devour whatever she gives birth toR" NO Dave you are twisting Scripture, the BEAST was not standing around OPPOSING creation.... you say your creature is God's friend, now you say it is awaiting to devour creation? Really Dave, so entropy is some natural sin, that is not a moral sin. How come the false elohiym powers exist in the moral law, where sin, real sinning is accountable for? Who are these creatures who sin as false elohiym powers, not humans? Happened before first Sabbath law was observed by Adam? D" A beautiful nymphomaniac woman tried to seduce the local priest or pastor – as she put her moves on him – if he has an erection – is he a sinner or just an animalR" He sins because he does not speak in this temple the words of power, no adultery' Lord grant me no powers I cannot claim. Keep my eye single. Does the man quote these words of power? No, instead he allows his own powers of self to see and look and feel, he does not function in faith in God's words, and thus sins intentionally against God. D" As you see you own life in play back – how will you judge yourself?R" God will ask of us, why didn't you speak my words, instead you lived in your own words? Missing is just that, a person who is missing God's words in his life. Yet Jews speak God's words daily and yet are stilll missing the power of those words, how is this possible? Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. Jas 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, D"T hey exist – in-between – they are all around us invisibly – and can appear in a form to spook / manipulate us Your Jewish posting said – they are incomplete – not fully made correct One Gnostic text calls them an abortionR" I would call all this complete rubbish. Not as the torah describes the creatures that sins, the angels are as real and as complete as humans are. D" YET – do not repent – cannot repent or scripture falls apartR" Why can't angels that sin, repent of their sinnings? D" THEN WHAT? – stop pause and consider – do I need to atone (yester tov) conscious speakingR" Yes THEN WHAT? DO you have in your next creation, creatures that tempt humans to sin again Dave? DO you have in your next creation, entropy? DO you have in your next creation, incomplete creatures? If you answer is no, why did God create them in the first creation? If you answer yes, why can't GOD create a perfect world? My view is the world became corrupted by SIN, and SIN never arises a second time. The REIGNER that sins becomes ashes on the ground and the other REIGNERS look astonished at the sight. Ezekiel 28 is speaking about the end of the SIN problem. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 2, 2022 16:33:27 GMT -5
D"satan is crazy like a fox Robert claims that foxes are satan R" I have never said this Dave, so why do you mock? D"REPEAT - D"1Jn 3:8 The one who practices sin is of the devil, IT SAYS – any man that chooses to sin – is like the devil – Robert claims that all devils must act like men
D" Answered 10 Million times R" Readers take note of Dave's answer to the "shedim sins" DAVE QUOTES Gnostic writings "When he said this, he sinned against the entirety."
D"When he said this, he sinned against the entirety. Sinned against – matter – dirt – rocks – air – planets – stars – galaxies = ENTROPY R" I see, we have a new definition of sin, one can also sin against creation, but GOD does not see this as sinning against GOD?
The Beast of Revelation appeared during creation Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Gen 1:2 Now the earth was chaos and waste, darkness was on the surface of the deep,
If you say what happened in Gen 1:2 = sin Then Jude and Peter say all your demons are locked awy from man
If you say what happened in gen 1:2 = SIN Why did God call it TOV – Gen 1:31
So a shark eating a fish is not sin, NOPE – just nature
A animal treating on an ant, so it dies is NOT considered a SIN either, just entropy against creation YEP – nature is a harsh place – the cycle of life – there to witness to man -----------------
D"You try to argue that your satan god was perfect in all his ways before he recreated himself Now you try to argue that your satan god sinned from the beginning You preach a contradiction with arrogance R" Are you being difficult? A cherub was once sinless and decides over time to sin
Then what is all your crap about 1Jn 3:8 … for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. You preach a contradiction ------------------
D"Without choice – man cannot choose R" My point is it is not necessary to choose. WOW - ENOUGH SAID ---------------------------
RP" 3) Jesus said the shedim murder humans? D" Please quote the verse – to prove you are not making up words for Jesus Christ – that would be blasphemy
R" Joh 8:40, Joh 8:41, Joh 8:43, Joh 8:44 - Jesus is making parallels to humans
Repeat - Jesus said the shedim murder humans? --------------------------
I asked you for any empirical evidence of your Biblical Creation theory D"What is this Mr scientist – Mr detail person – is this an answer? R" A big topic, one topic at a time Dave.
Cop out – avoid – evade – refuse to answer – because you have no honest answers ---------------------------
D"DOES NOT SAY ahl’OT ONLY – it says all writings IF – you do not see God in every math book – every physic book – every biology book – you are not paying attention – Rom 1:19-20 – Psa 19:2 – ALL CREATION TESTIFIES TO THE ONE TRUE CREATOR R" ALL writings, including secular ones written by man? I don't think so Dave. Truth is truth – no matter where you find it ------------------------------
D"Scripture mentions 35-50 other 'books' that are valuable for information R" SO this verse is another verse you ignore is that it? What does this mean – you say nothing but your KJV is valuable – you disagree with scripture
SO sola Scriptoria is NOT a Dave view? The Textus Receptus was drafted by Erasmus If you check the Roma Index – you are not allowed to possess or read anything he wrote His version is only one of several and does not include everything written -----------------------
D"and you must answer why your SDA advent math comes from Islam presdicting the comming of the Islamic Messiah R" Another topic, one topic at a time.
Cop out – refusal to answer – afraid of the truth – avoid – deny It is the only refuge of the Ellen White’s SDA satanology
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2022 14:55:41 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
Eze 28:2 Son <ben> of man <'adam>, say <'amar> unto the prince <nagiyd> of Tyrus <Tsor>,
To the NAGIYD of TYRE, there are 10 verses, where this human claims to be EL, and of the heart of ELOHIYM POWER. Eze 28:12 Son <ben> of man <'adam>, take up <nasa'> a lamentation <qiynah> upon the king <melek> of Tyrus <Tsor>,
To the MELEK of TYRE, a totally different title written for a completely different BEING.
There next 8 verses refer to this BEING, who is a CHERUB, once created perfect and than became a sinning cherub. NOT a single time do these verses in Ezekiel mix terms or mix beings. They are NOT technically similes of each other, but poetry parallels, both claim to be EL and to sit in the heart of ELOHIYM POWER. -------------------repost my message Dave intentionally ignores------------
Answer this one first.
Who are these false elohiym powers man was to not worship. They cannot be human powers, because the commands existed when first Sabbath existed and man (Adam annd Eve) had done no sinning.
SO something had to have done sinning in order to become a false elohiym power?
SO who are these sinning false elohiym powers?
And to be sinning creatures in the royal ten commandments, such creatures have to be accountable for moral sinnings, not your entropy creation thing, the command is in the royal law, not the laws of creation. DUH
SO who are these shedim that sin, before man even did the first Sabbath rest law.
Dave cannot answer this question.
Jews cannot answer this question.
But Hebrew Torah answers the question though.
The REIGNER over TYRE, not the PRINCE over Tyre, is spoken much as a Cherub that sinned. This is not really a simile, but a parallel, a comment about a completely different creature.
D" Cop out – avoid – evade – refuse to answer – because you have no honest answers R" Yep exactly, you cop out, avoid, evade and refuse to answer because you have no honest answer to the passage in Ezekiel 28, about two completely different beings. ----------------------
D"If you check the Roma Index – you are not allowed to possess or read anything he wrote His version is only one of several and does not include everything written R" Last time I checked the Textus receptus is much the same as the books Jews wrote in Hebrew, Genesis is the same, Exodus the same, as well as other books of the Tanakm like Hosea, Joel and Ezekiel. Really Dave, you just like to find excuses to mock God's holy message and find reasons NOT to study God's Holy Message. ------------------------
Dave refuses to answers specific questions about the SHEDIM that sin....
Dave thinks their sinning is only natural entropy sinnings, not the moral sinning as we humans are held accountable to....
Rob re posts what Dave refused to comment on
" R" Cannot agree with you, because the command not to worship false elohiym powers is inside the FIRST of the moral laws of SIN, not some natural laws of creation. DUH Dave, you goofed. Stop twisting Scripture.
Who are these creatures who morally sin and break the ten comandments of love? Who are these false elohiym powers man was to not worship. They cannot be human powers, because the commands existed when first Sabbath existed and man (Adam annd Eve) had done no sinning.
SO something had to have done sinning in order to become a false elohiym power?
SO who are these sinning false elohiym powers?
And to be sinning creatures in the royal ten commandments, such creatures have to be accountable for moral sinnings, not your entropy creation thing, the command is in the royal law, not the laws of creation. DUH
SO who are these shedim that sin, before man even did the first Sabbath rest law.
Dave cannot answer this question.
Jews cannot answer this question.
However the Hebrew torah does answer the question of who these false SHAD powers of elohiym are:-
The REIGNER over TYRE, not the PRINCE over Tyre, is spoken much as a Cherub that sinned.
This is not really a simile, but a parallel, a comment about a completely different creature. And Dave's reply?
D"Cop out – refusal to answer – afraid of the truth – avoid – deny R" You cannot answer a basic question Dave, who are the false elohiym powers that humans are not to worship, that existed when Sabbath existed, and thus cannot be human elohiym powers.
The serpent in the Garden has to be the chief of these false elohiym powers, and since this is a law inside the moral law, the chief elojiym power has to have sinned in order to become a false elohiym power, thus the serpent SINS. (SOmething Dave does not agree to, and MORALLY sins too, something Dave does not agree to either) -----------------------------
D"Repeat - Jesus said the shedim murder humans? R" Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning,
Can't you read verses plainly? Jesus said the SHEDIM is a murderer from the beginning. The word beginning means since earth time for humans began, from earth creation of time, the chief SHEDIM has been a murderer of humans, since humans ever first existed. The first human to have been wounded was Adam, the SHEDIM got Adam to sin, and thus wounded his living forever. ------------------------------
D"Then what is all your crap about 1Jn 3:8 … for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. You preach a contradiction R" Again you do not read my posts, for the THIRD time I post material that you do not READ
A cherub was once sinless and decides over time to sin, does not require recreating yourself. Your foot does not change to new feet, your wings do not change either. When you sin, the glow of GOD over you will leave you and you become a creature of literal darkness because God leaves you, is about the only major changes in the creature that sins.
When it says the cherub sinned from the beginning, this is correct. How far back does the term beginning go? Not very far.
Pr 8:22 ¶ The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
Here is Jesus-YHWH with Father-YHWH from eternity before earth time began. So scripture can speak of times before the beginning of earth time.
SO the cherub was perfect and sinless during this time in heaven (I assume other creations, not ONE like Dave does) Eventually the cherub sins and thus is banished to a planet of solid fluid. After a while GOD decides to make a new creation over this solid fluid to make witnesses for sin, sinless creatures who have never seen sinning before.
So TIME begins on this solid fluid rock, dry land termed earth appears, and humans are created not knowing the sinning angels, nor experiencing sinning angels before, and all the other REIGNERS watch.
So yes the sinning angels sinneth from the beginning, is pefectly correct, referencing earth time. It's not a contradiction either, as the beginning does not refer to the absolute times of owlam, time before earth time began.
And Dave's answer to this "shedim that sinneth from the beginning" ?
D"Cop out – refusal to answer – afraid of the truth – avoid – deny R" no answer, nothing, afraid to answer, can't fathom OWLAM or the Hebrew word beginning.
There is no contradiction. However there are several contradictions in your theories....
1) Natural sinning such as entropy ra sins, only applies to the SHEDIM, the SHEDIM are parallel to human sinning, so only sinning mentioned is moral sinning. Jesus spoke of the SHEDIM as a liar and a murderer, both references to moral sinnings.
2) The SHEDIM is not a creature kind, hence they are not created, despite your false teachings saying they are offspring of angels and created as kinds by God. Bogus idea. SHEDIM means to drink false milk, to drink words of SELF, and not drink or eat the the TORAH from heaven. 3) The SHEDIM (sinning angels) sin like humans sin, and have been sinning from the beginning, when earth time and thus humans existed.
Try to answer my questions Dave, rather than cop out, avoid and deny these verses you ignore.
You can always say you follow a different theology than what is presented in the Bible, because you do not follow Sola Scripture Hebrew torah, as you state yourself, truth is anywhere you find it. Your theology comes from Gnostic sources and talmud Jews inventions and myths of men, who preach fables and traditions of men. But you do not support the Hebrew torah as GOD got inspired writers to write and preserve as HIS HOLY WORDS.
Shalom
PS
ON another but related note, have you been watching the video of the Fall of Cabal, episode 25 and 26 (27 has not been published as yet).
Before 2025, millions of people are going to die, all of those vaccinated ones, who agreed to suicide, as the humans were not under informed consent, so the world was tortured as a social experiment, and more worse things of this type are coming as Bill Gates announces.
Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
For many people dying of internal blood clots and other technologies injected into them, I suggest giving your heart to the Lord before you die, in the valley of decision for the end of your time is near and we all live in the last days. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 4, 2022 14:30:34 GMT -5
Answer this one first. Who are these false elohiym powers man was to not worship. They cannot be human powers, The BEAST – the ancient serpent race – that we call devils and satanas
SO something had to have done sinning in order to become a false elohiym power? Evolution is a false elohiym – it is every bit a religion to believe in What sin did the IDEA of evolution do – is an idea capable of a sin – does an idea have free will --------------------------
SO who are these shedim that sin, before man even did the first Sabbath rest law. Dave cannot answer this question. Because it is a false premise – Dave believes scripture
Rom 5:12 because of this, even as through one man the sin did enter into the world, and through the sin the death; and thus to all men the death did pass through, for that all did sin; Rom 5:13 for till law sin was in the world: and sin is not reckoned when there is not law;
Sin came into this world through Eve / man / a human being You must deny scripture to keep you doctrine alive
Jews cannot answer this question. Jews are unaware of Eve’s conduct or the Contest of Gen 3:15 – Wow – the Jew must be unable to read according to you – so anti-Semtic
But Hebrew Torah answers the question though. You just said that the Jews and their Torah had no answer You preach contradiction -----------------------------------
D" Cop out – avoid – evade – refuse to answer – because you have no honest answers R" Yep exactly, you cop out, avoid, evade and refuse to answer because you have no honest answer to the passage in Ezekiel 28, about two completely different beings. MY ANSWER FOR THE 10 MILLIONTH TIME = no satan being born or created in Ezk 28 You don’t want to hear the answer – so you pretend I don’t answer ------------------------------------
D"If you check the Roma Index – you are not allowed to possess or read anything he wrote His version is only one of several and does not include everything written R" Last time I checked the Textus receptus is much the same as the books Jews wrote in Hebrew, After all our discussion – you know better – Mr Honest ----------------------------------
D"Cop out – refusal to answer – afraid of the truth – avoid – deny R" You cannot answer a basic question Dave, who are the false elohiym powers that humans are not to worship, You know better – Mr Honest ---------------------------------
D"Repeat - Jesus said the shedim murder humans? R" Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning,
Can't you read verses plainly? Jesus said the SHEDIM is a murderer from the beginning. YEP – stars – galaxies – rocks – dirt – plants and animals – entropy
D"Then what is all your crap about 1Jn 3:8 … for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. You preach a contradiction R" Again you do not read my posts, for the THIRD time I post material that you do not READ A cherub was once sinless and decides over time to sin YOU JUST POSTED for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. You preach a contradiction
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2022 14:31:20 GMT -5
Greetings Dave Since when is an IDEA capable, of being a creature? D" What sin did the IDEA of evolution do – is an idea capable of a sin – does an idea have free willR" Evolution came from humans, a thought implanted into some humans by the shedim, so the shedim do not believe in GOD creating the world, but that the world came about naturally. Hence your SHEDIM sin, is clearly evidenced by the arrival of evolution as a religious power. D" Because it is a false premise – Dave believes scriptureR" stop being stubborn, sure human sin entered by the first human. But you refuse to admit cherub sinning entered by the first cherub who sinned. Can't you read Scripture, or you don't wish to. You deny Exodus 20:1 and now 1JOhn 3:8, so Dave who is the creature who morally sins and is thus a false elohiym power humans cannot worship, that existed when Sabbath existed, long before Adam even sinned? D" The BEAST – the ancient serpent race – that we call devils and satanasR" you write the BEAST, the Satanas, the SHEDIM. OK than the beast is capable of moral sinning and has a free will to do such sinning. Now if you allow the other pieces to suddenly fall into place, the beast is a sinning angel, who first sinned, long before humans even existed. Do you agree with Scripture now ? D" You just said that the Jews and their Torah had no answer You preach contradictionR" Not all Jews live and support the torah, most Jews live and support the talmud. There is a difference. 1Ki 19:14 And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away. 1Ki 19:18 Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him. Elijah thought only he followed torah, but GOD have over 7000 others too that followed torah, the rest of the millions of Jews in Elijah's day followed talmud. Get the picture Dave? Want more proof? Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. You can read torah with talmud and still not be seen by GOD as a true Hebrew. SO I do NOT preach contradiction D" MY ANSWER FOR THE 10 MILLIONTH TIME = no satan being born or created in Ezk 28R" correct a " satan" whatever that word means to you, was not born nor created. Correct However you refuse to acknowledge the chief angel, that sat closest to the Father as a creature of the kind cherub, slowly over time began to sin. And thus became under my view and the Hebrew meaning of "satan" an OPPOSER of GOD and His love and His law. But you refuse to acknowledge how the first sinning came into God's world of sinlessness. SINNING was not born or created, sin came through the free will to reason and do different actions arising from the mind. The cherub that sinned wanted to seek self and be first, even as high as the Father is the Most High. Thus the cherub became an opposer and an enemy of GOD because of his sinning's. You even deny the war in heaven in Rev 12 is about moral sinning too, just a natural entropy ignorance thing, a bustle that took GOD less than 6 seconds to deal with. Your Gnostic teachings teach GOD created all things, including natural sin, moral sin and the freedoms to live under both. In my view of the torah, GOD did not create SIN, it came about through the freedom of free will to choose to be with GOD or to disobey God. The first creature to have sinned, was not a human, but an cherub. There are many more Creations, apart from our human creation, an idea you also deny. You don't even have angels with free will, with the ability to morally sin, even though some asked to go down to earth and became trapped in the beast powers, are now locked away for this crime, we dare not call it a "sinning angel" because your messengers are slaves and cannot morally sin like humans can. You deny Scripture, so many verses you ignore. D" YEP – stars – galaxies – rocks – dirt – plants and animals – entropyR" if you wish to invent two types of "sin" your business, but no where in Scripture is there such a thing as "entropy as natural sin / RA" if you check all the verses of Scripture, RA is always a term used for humans that sin. Entropy is the process of natural missing powers from GOD as a result of God's curse on natural, because of Adam's sin. Your Gnostic teachings teach this process is a natural kind of sin, called entropy, and this idea is bogus. If GOD wished to flood our creation with a 7 fold increase in His power, all entropy would vanish, so there is no more living under entropy's influence, since GOD is always in control of His Creation. If you want to fly and live like the angels, all we have to do is have faith in God, and God deals with the rest. But Dave refuses to discuss his weird theories. Maybe you are tired your theories do not stand scrutiny and thus you mock me examining them. So it is best you live and pretend to have righteousness under your theories and I will leave you alone. It's obvious you do not wish to follow the torah only, nor do you have any serious discussion defending you own views which ignore Scripture. Nor do you read my posts. You do not write serious discussion to my questions. D" YOU JUST POSTED for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. You preach a contradictionR" ditto. I am not going to post my words a fourth time. Something wrong here Housten, Dave is no longer reading my posts. Have you been watching the video of the Fall of Cabal, episode 25 and 26 ? I take that as a no. Just another example of Dave not reading my posts. I shall look for you when all the world of humans is raised, when I am standing upon the pearly wall of Zion and ponder the words we shared together, but alas you did not listen to the true torah. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 5, 2022 23:21:34 GMT -5
D"Because it is a false premise – Dave believes scripture R" stop being stubborn, sure human sin entered by the first human. Correct - Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned. Rom 5:13 For up until the Torah, sin was in the world; but sin does not count as sin when there is no law.
You continue to claim that what happened in Gen 1:2 = SIN You deny Rom 5:13 IF – what happen in Gen 1:2 = SIN why did God call it tov If what happened in Gen 1:2 = SIN – then Jude and Peter claim all your sinning angels are locked away
You even deny the war in heaven in Rev 12 is about moral sinning too, just a natural entropy ignorance thing, a bustle that took GOD less than 6 seconds to deal with. Rev 12 – is a replay of the moment of creation – Gen 1:1-4
You continue to claim that what happened in Gen 1:2 = SIN You deny Rom 5:13 IF – what happen in Gen 1:2 = SIN why did God call it tov If what happened in Gen 1:2 = SIN – then Jude and Peter claim all your sinning angels are locked away
D"The BEAST – the ancient serpent race – that we call devils and satanas R" you write the BEAST, the Satanas, the SHEDIM. OK than the beast is capable of moral sinning and has a free will to do such sinning. NOPE – they have (yester ra) and the compulsion to reproduce Reproducing out of their own king violated the Law for Beast – and those sinners are locked away
Who first sinned, long before humans even existed. NO ONE – you preach a contradiction Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned. Rom 5:13 For up until the Torah, sin was in the world; but sin does not count as sin when there is no law. Why do you deny the agl/NT
Do you agree with Scripture now ? I do – you don’t
D"You just said that the Jews and their Torah had no answer You preach contradiction R" Not all Jews live and support the torah, most Jews live and support the talmud. There is a difference. (google) The Talmud has two components: the Mishnah (משנה, c. 200 CE), a written compendium of the Oral Torah; and the Gemara (גמרא, c. 500 CE), I am talking about the CONTEXT of Jesus Christ 200-500 is the Context of Rome
I have never quoted the Talmud to you – referred to it in any way Why do you believe JW or Mormon writings – are they on point – shall I post them and claim you support them – Grow up and have an honest discussion
I do NOT preach contradiction Was the devil a sinner from the beginning 1 John 3:8 – the verse you continually post Or was he perfect in all his ways - Ezk 28 the verse you continually repeat like a parrot Which theology belong to you?
D"MY ANSWER FOR THE 10 MILLIONTH TIME = no satan being born or created in Ezk 28 R" correct a "satan" whatever that word means to you, was not born nor created. In Ezk 28 Correct – the BEAST appeared at the moment of creation And you know what means – The beast – the serpent race – that we call devils and satanas
Your Gnostic teachings teach GOD created all things, including natural sin, LIE – male things up - misrepresent – that how Ellen White SDA has trained you to answer Instead of answering a question – you just make up so outrageous statement to change the subject
You don't even have angels with free will, Correct – angels of the Lord – can act with the limits of their natires – to serve and praise Messengers of the Beast (archon) – can act with the limits of their nature – entropy – to destroy Man – is the only creature with the Free Will to become the prodigal Son
D"YOU JUST POSTED for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. You preach a contradiction R" ditto. I am not going to post my words a fourth time. Something wrong here Housten, Dave is no longer reading my posts.
You post the same thing over and over – Instead of answering a questions yes I read you You say your devil was sinning from the beginning and he was perfect in all his ways before he slowly turn to sin – you preach a contradiction
You post the same thing over and over – as a defense mechanis so you won't have to answering a question
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2022 12:16:55 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
D" You continue to claim that what happened in Gen 1:2 = SIN You deny Rom 5:13 IF – what happen in Gen 1:2 = SIN why did God call it tov
R" I will bite. What are you talking about? ANd this time write a serious discussion.
You are a Greek scholar?
SO what is the difference between
R" You hate me posting Interlinear, but I must in order to show readers how to eat meat, rather than drinking milk all the time (which is what SHAD or SHEDIM means, drinking false milk)
Ro 5:12 Wherefore <dia> <touto>, as <hosper> by <dia> one <heis> man <anthropos> sin <hamartia> entered <eiserchomai> into <eis> the world <kosmos>, and <kai> death <thanatos> by <dia> sin <hamartia>; and <kai> so <houto> death <thanatos> passed <dierchomai> upon <eis> all <pas> men <anthropos>, for <epi> that <hos> all <pas> have sinned <hamartano>:
13 (For <gar> until <achri> the law <nomos> sin <hamartia> was <en> in <en> the world <kosmos>: but <de> sin <hamartia> is <ellogeo> not <ou> imputed <ellogeo> when there is <on> no <me> law <nomos>.
Tell me what is the difference between the Greek words "hamartano" and "hamartia" ? Your answer must try to expound the GREEK back into HEBREW, the original and most holy words that is GOD's first message to us.
In Hebrew we have two words for "sin" they are "chata" and "chataah", both have similar meaning. Jeff Benner "chata" "err" and "chataah" "error". Hmm? Nice attempt, but lacks application.
I prefer "chata" "sin" and "chataah" "sin-offering" ? I see "chataah" as the actions a person did after they sinned, or sought to atone for their sins.
Now explain your view using a Hebrew outline. As I have shown above.
Ge 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The dry land that emerged, or was going to emerge was void and formless, and darkness was over the solid fluid. Why was "Earth" like this? Because of a "SIN" problem, something you deny.
In REV 12 we are told some "sinning angels" were banished to this "solid fluid" hence why this "solid fluid" is "void", "formless" and in "the darkness of sin", where GOD leaves the "sinner".
Now I have shown you my Bible verses before based on my view, all sola scriptoria, now you explain using sola scriptoria your view of what you mean by Gen 1:2.
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DP"The BEAST – the ancient serpent race – that we call devils and satanas RP" you write the BEAST, the Satanas, the SHEDIM. R"OK than the beast is capable of moral sinning and has a free will to do such sinning. D" NOPE – they have (yester ra) and the compulsion to reproduce Reproducing out of their own king violated the Law for Beast – and those sinners are locked away R" So if the beast do not have free will to sin , why do you write those "sinning beasts" are locked away? Stop confusing readers with terms that have English meanings, when your beast cannot "sin" in the first place.
It's as if you, as a Jew, invent a whole brand new gamete of word meanings and terms, "like yester TOV and yester RA" and "entropy/RA/natural sinning" you add and change the TORAH word meanings with your invented traditions and precepts of men.
RP" Who first sinned, long before humans even existed. D" NO ONE – you preach a contradiction R" What? you deny the false elohiym that existed long before Mankind existed than? Since in order to become a false elohiym power (according to Jeff Benner) such a power has to have morally sinned, in order to know both "yester TOV and yester RA" (I use your terms).
SO who is this false elohiym power than? that morally sins from the beginning of earth based time?
D"Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned. R" I asked you for the verse in Hebrew
Rom 5:12 So then, just as "sin-offering" came into the world through one man and death through "sin-offering", in the same way death spread to all men because all "sinned".
When Adam sinned "chata", GOD required Adam to slay "harag" a innocent sinless sheep, in order to "Atone" for His "missing" so this pointed to JESUS-YHWH atoning for His sinning by dying the death Adam caused over himself.
Where is this penalty of life for life written? As a judgement of the moral law, when a mischief maker does wounding to another sinless creature, causing mischief to the womb of humans, and the damage is permanent.
So the teaching for undoing mischief came through Jesus-YHWH gradually, and over time, as HE is SALVATION, a process granted to HIM by HIS FATHER.
Ex 23:20 ¶ Behold, I send an "MESSENGER" before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. 21 Beware of "MY MESENGER", and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
R" Who is this messenger of Father-YHWH? Jesus-YHWH is, the only name through which our sinning is atoned for.
RP" Do you agree with Scripture now ? D" I do – you don’t R" If you agree with Scripture, you would be sola scriptoria, but you are not, you seek truth wherever you like, whereas I don't, I seek truth only in the HEBREW torah, as explained only by the HEBREW torah (not by Jewish talmud or Jewish traditions or doctrine of Jews)
You do not entertain the idea that cherubs can even sin, and thus were the first creature to have sinned in the past. This is what Rev 12 is about.
But instead you invent a brand new teaching, following teachings not even from Hebrew torah, but Gnostism, which Paul told us to avoid.
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of GNOSIS falsely so called: 21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith.
And so Dave, you err reading this deceptive stuff. ---------------------------
D"Grow up and have an honest discussion
I do NOT preach contradiction R" I would love to have serious discussions with you, but you have to write your serious discussions. Stop being brief and start writing seriously.
OK so the beast power never sinned and cannot sin.
Now you agree with me on this idea? So stop writing the "sinners are locked away" when a beast power cannot sin in the first place.
Or at least write the "beast that did have sex with woman, doing a bad yester ra, got locked away for this bad behaviour" But you have two creatures that do bad things, angels which also cannot sin, and a beast creature and it's offspring which also cannot sin. But both of these creatures do have intellect and can do some bad things with their "yester ra". But this is not considered "moral sinning"? Really Dave? Must you twist word meaning?
If angels decide to have sex with humans, is this not breaking the command? No adultery? Hence a moral sin?
And if the beast "murder" other creatures, as Jesus said the beast power does as a "father", and does as a "murderer", does this not mean the "beast power" morally sins? It does in my view. But not in Dave's view??
Really Dave? Must you twist word meaning?
D" Was the devil a sinner from the beginning 1 John 3:8 – the verse you continually post Or was he perfect in all his ways - Ezk 28 the verse you continually repeat like a parrot Which theology belong to you? R" Both. You avoid all the verses, and leave out bits of a verse.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,
You quote this verse, leaving out a bit.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Here is the full verse.
The cherub was once sinless before earth time, and later became a sinning cherub before earth time, was banished to a solid fluid planet, in darkness because God left the sinning cherubs there.
Than GOD made a second creation over this solid fluid, to create a sinless creature that has never known sinning before (the other kings in Ezekiel saw the cherubs sinning before earth time), now during earth time, the first sinless humans never have seen sinning before, and thus are told about the false elohiym power and the tree they represent, the tree of good and evil. Stay away from this tree, and do not eat of its fruit.
So the false elohiym power (shedim, creatures that drink their own false milk) have some to earth, to tempt humans to sin, so they too become slaves to sinning.
Now try to make contradictions to my view, I do not see any contradictions to the Hebrew torah.
D"Correct – the BEAST appeared at the moment of creation And you know what means – The beast – the serpent race – that we call devils and satanas R" NO Dave, absolutely NOT, the Hebrew torah never teaches the SHAD were created, it's a description of a creature drinking false milk, not drinking torah, or holy words, which all creatures have to drink from. All creatures drink from the WORD, but not all creatures are morally accountable for missing the WORD, if some creatures "unwittingly sin", like Alex the grey parrot.
The only creature capable of being the SHAD before humans existed, is the CHERUB. Nothing else fits in the Hebrew torah.
And as for Jeff Benner claim that the SHAD deceived EVE with the "truth", that is a bogus claim, and a false hood, I would tell him to his face. If a creature speaks a "false report" about GOD holy words, that by definition is a "sin".
Hence Jeff is saying the SHAD did sin, but He deceives readers with the statement, the SHAD deceived EVE with the truth. The word "deceive" is a "sin term".
In other words Jeff is saying the SHAD deceived the woman into sinning, by speaking the truth in a deceptive manner (which is technically sinning, to do so).
And you even are more deceived, saying nowhere is "lying" seen as a "sin".
"Lying Dave is speaking "false words of witness", speaking "empty storm words", not "edifying God", "negating God's words".
RP" Your Gnostic teachings teach GOD created all things, including natural sin, D" LIE – make things up - misrepresent – that how Ellen White SDA has trained you to answer R" OK I am sorry for misquoting you, where is your serious discussion and your view clearly explained following my words of understanding? If you are a teacher, than teach me. You speak of "entropy as natural RA" I term this "natural sin", you seem to have two definitions of sinning. One is natural RA, and the other moral RA. Explain yourself.
Hebrew torah only speaks of moral sin. All missing powers from GOD is a sin. All the commandments of love (ten commandments) are based on faith, amanuah. Ps 119:86 All thy commandments <mitsvah> are faithful <'emuwnah>:
Any creature that refuses to drink the mitsvah are drinking their own words (milk) hence are termed "Shad" or "devils" hence why John write those who "miss" become "children of the shad"
1Jo 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:
Either you drink GOD's milk, his words, or your own words and become SHAD. So write you own serious discussion along my words, show me why I am wrong. Be a teacher.
D"Man – is the only creature with the Free Will to become the prodigal Son R" that is bogus Dave. You admit the "sons of GOD" can be "angels" and yet these "sons of GOD" have no free will to sin, like humans can? You just goofed again.
Why even Alex the grey parrot can sin and throw a tantrum, was detailed carefully under science experiments. Even Alex who technically has no free will to morally sin, can sin, but cannot choose to be saved from his sins. Only higher creatures closest to GOD seem to have this ability of free will to choose GOD again after we sin. Why do you insist cherubs cannot sin, when Hebrew torah says exactly the cherubs can sin?
D"yes I read you You say your devil was sinning from the beginning and he was perfect in all his ways before he slowly turn to sin – you preach a contradiction R" OK Mr Serious Discussion, why is my answer a contradiction, answer according to my words and the Hebrew torah I quote?
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. This happened BEFORE earth time. During some other time, during some other creation, long before earth time.
Scripture can speak of time before earth time, I showed you already. Proverbs 8 remember?
And so ends Daves posts.
Now you post your serious discussion, and speak using my terms so I will understand you, be a teacher and teach me, (using sola scroptoria ) rather than mock the learner. Shalom
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