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Post by Dave on Nov 19, 2022 6:09:06 GMT -5
D"Make up your mind – God’s Plan all along – or NOT?
If you say God say – God’s tov creation is changed against God’s Will – so God has to change His original Plan – then you teach God is Not in control R" Why do you cling to extreme views? Of course GOD knows the end from the beginning and planned his reactions to actions, long before sinners sin. In fact we see from Scripture, GOD creates RA, so even the sinning cannot exist in God's world, unless GOD is always ultimately in control.
REFRESHING TO SEE YOUR THEOLOGY SHIFTING You taught – God tried to make a tov world – but your satan was responsible for causing it all to change – all DNA changed – death entered the world – nothing died before Gen 3 You taught that Rom 1:19 and the evidence of an Intelligent Design proves your satan is in control Intelligent design includes entropy – it includes balance – it operates on the divine Laws of Nature.
From the moment the first star ignited – it was designed to eventually burn out – Entropy From the moment something is born – it was designed to grow – and eventually burn out Adam and Eve – grew old and died – because God withheld the Tree of Life
All biology was given 2 commanded by God 1- (yester ra) – go forth be fruitful and multiply – instinctive self-preservation and the survival of the species 2- to reproduce after their own kind
Man is special and given 4 commandments by God 1- (yester ra) – go forth be fruitful and multiply – instinctive self-preservation and the survival of the species 2- to subdue, conquer, have dominion over all the animals and the land 3- to reproduce after their own kind 4- Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
But you negate the idea that GOD deals with SIN.
מות תמות - mûth (present infinity) + mûth (future perfect imperative) But – GOD IS FAIR 2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, so that each one may receive what is due for the things he did while in the body—whether good or bad.
The first creatures to sin were the cherubims. You deny this. YES – I ABSOLUTELY DENY ROMAN CATHOLIC FALLEN ANGEL DOCTRINE – and ELLEN WHITE SATANISM
Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned.
The first creature to sin was Eve – the feminine brought sin and death into this world for man
You cannot answer who were the shedim who sinned like humans sin, in 1 John 3:8. Answered so many times that I tire of you Enoch’s Watchers – Azazael – santanali – satanas – archon If – you do not understand what happened in Gen 6 Then – you will not understand much of the ahl/OT and the agl/NT too evidently Beast → offspring → archon → bane elohiym - → Nephilim → Rephiem → evil spirits (shedim) → the 13 Families that rule the world → “entities that are anything but human – that have been manipulating this world from the outside – for eons” ---------------------
D"Robert cannot tell the difference between Gen 1:1 earth and Gen 1:9 planet Earth Dirt and dry land are the same word – earth – so Robert is all confused R" Have not noticed this before. Thank you. BULL SHIT – we have had this conversation at least 27 times
Judeo-Christianity teaches – Gen 1:1 God created the ethereal and the corporeal Gen 1:1 God created the invisible and he visible Gen 1:1 God created the incorruptibility and corruptible Gen 1:1 God created THE SPIRITUAL and THE PHYSICAL
Robert denies the spiritual Gen 1:1 God created (THE COSMOS / OUTER SPACE) and PLANET EARTH All Robert can see and teach is a world of biology – Robert absolutely denies the spiritual
What does "yabbashah" mean, that is eventually called "earth"? "yabbashah" means "dry" and so far always has supplied the word "ground" or "land".
The Apocryphon of John "Now the archon who is weak has three names. The first name is Yaltabaoth, the second is Saklas, and the third is Samael. And he is impious in his arrogance which is in him. For he said, 'I am God and there is no other God beside me,' for he is ignorant of his strength, the place from which he had come.
Why does KJV translate "dry" adding "land or ground" and here they translate "land" only? Jon 2:10 ¶ And the LORD spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land. OH GOODY A ROBERT WORD GAME – to what point? --------------------------
When I am stuck in understanding the Hebrew, I do consult EGW writings, as my Hebrew English translator.... than I make sure reading Hebrew is correct... Except she cannot read Hebrew or translate Hebrew according to you
This website is the best so far in precise summaries NO ONE CARES WHAT SHE SAYS – you will not defend her – you will not defend criticisms of the SDA She says that satan picked the fruit and handed to Eve
Gen 3:6 Now the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a thing of lust for the eyes, and that the tree was desirable for imparting wisdom. So she took of its fruit and she ate. She also gave to her husband who was with her and he ate.
Ellen White contradicts scripture – and promotes satan as a god D"YOUR TWO GOD RELIGION IS NOT TORAH R" no point discussing error until you answer one error at a time. AVOID – EVADE – DODGE – pretend all the contradictions don’t exist
Ellen White teaches and Islamic Advent math for the coming of the Islamic Mahdi Ellen White is 100% from the Second Great Awakening – alongside Mormons - JW – and Islamic Bahai
Other Worlds Already Existed When Satan Rebelled - 100% Mormon teaching
"Satan was greatly loved by the heavenly beings, - Ezk 28 is about man
God’s government included not only the inhabitants of heaven, but of all the created worlds; and Satan thought that if he could carry the intelligences of heaven with him in rebellion, he could also carry with him the other worlds. — RH March 9, 1886". Again – Mormon teaching – sure not Torah
The Controversy Not to be Taken to Other Worlds The controversy was not to be taken into the other worlds of the universe; but it was to be carried on in the very world, on the very same field, that Satan claimed as his. — RH March 9, 1886. YEP – just physical reality
Rob" We see these other unfallen worlds and the unfallen "sons of God" in Job, which state these other unfallen worlds existed long before Creation upon Earth existed. Space men – aliens – Mormons – all just physical world -----------------------
Rob's conclusion" I get the earth was formless and void, and a place for the sinning angels to be banished to. But they were also free to visit other unfallen worlds and tempt them to sin, but these sinning angels could not tempt them to fall, like they had fallen.
Judeo-Christian heaven is a spiritual realm – ethereal YES – the Beast was cast into physical creation because he was made with some of it (some matter) YES – Physical creation is the domain of the Beast ------------------------
So looking at the Hebrew we can conclude:- Pr 8:22 ¶ The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. R" who is "me", if YHWH is the Most High, than "me" is the Son of the Most High, they were together as one from the beginning, from eternity, before the Father's works of old. DUH – God=Christ / Christ = God
R" Not only the SON from eternity as divinity uncaused, but also wisdom, the feminine love pictured as the HS was also present. DUH - God = Christ = HS = TRINITY
The medium was created for a reason during Creation SORRY ROBERT – THE HS WAS NOT CREATED – THE HS = THE SPIRIT OF GOD
Gen 1:27 God created humankind in His image, in the image of God He created him, male and female He created them. God = Male (Christ) + Female (HS) = TRINITY
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. --------------------------------
D"The Host of heaven were all created on Day 1 – angels – man – and archon Gen 2:4 These are births of the heavens and of the earth in their being prepared, in the day of Jehovah God's making earth and heavens; R" your lack of discussion astounds me? Care to detail? Ge 2:1 ¶ Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. Evidently you deny that angels, archon, and man are the HOST of heaven -----------------
D"YOU HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH SPEAKING IN TONGES YOU JUST HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SPEAKING IN TONGUES R" Really Dave, get real. Nothing wrong with speaking in tongues, just have a problem with speaking glossalia. MOCK AWAY – the things you deny and therefore do not understand – just MOCK ------------------------
D"So you teach – all the ancient world was Jewish – both history and scripture is wrong - there were no other tribes worshiping other gods R" You forget free will THEN ANSWER THE QUESTION – why did God leave the 99% in ignorance If God is in control - Why did God set up the 1% vrs the 99% scenario Or is your satan god in control
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2022 15:39:36 GMT -5
Greetings Dave D" REFRESHING TO SEE YOUR THEOLOGY SHIFTING You taught – God tried to make a tov world – but your satan was responsible for causing it all to change – all DNA changed – death entered the world – nothing died before Gen 3 You taught that Rom 1:19 and the evidence of an Intelligent Design proves your satan is in control Intelligent design includes entropy – it includes balance – it operates on the divine Laws of NatureR" Why don't you talk about your view, rather than pretend that my view is shifting? Entropy only came into Adam's world after Adam sinned. Ge 3:17 ¶ And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; Notice the changes as a result of sinning 1) ground is cursed, so soil loses it vitality for supplying food 2) this causes weeds to grow 3) Adam is to also eat grains rather than fruit trees because the fruit no longer have vitality of foods. Ge 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: Who is the "us" here Dave, that defines the term "elohiym", knowing good and evil. Can't be God and an angel, they are different, not "one of us", has to be of the same kind as humans are "one of two that become one of us". Dave cannot answer this question because you have only one divine person in three expressions. Entropy therefore came after Adam sinned, not before as in your view. Since Adam is "us" having two personalities of love in two persons of one being, this parallel is written of the heavenly elohiym, using the same term "us", who also have different personalities of love in persons of the godhead, but as one being. Rp" The first creatures to sin were the cherubims. You deny this.D" YES – I ABSOLUTELY DENY ROMAN CATHOLIC FALLEN ANGEL DOCTRINE – and ELLEN WHITE SATANISMR" You support Roman Catholic doctrine of trinity, don't you? You support the Roman Catholic idea of life after death don't you? You support the Roman Catholic idea of pergatory and hell don't you? I support the idea that elohiym means a "family power" for all secular, pagan contexts of elohiym, as well as for the divine contexts, so my view does not need "trinity" ideas, it's far more simple to understand also. But you follow something invented mostly by the Roman Catholics, but you deny this because you don't like adopting Roman Catholic views. I thought we were following sola scriptoria as it reads? D"Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned.
The first creature to sin was Eve – the feminine brought sin and death into this world for manR" Your a Greek scholar, the Greek comes also with grammar case, just as Hebrew does, so the term "one man" is this masculine or feminine? The term "anthropos" is masculine, I believe? biblehub.com/romans/5-12.htmReally Dave you go out on a limb, differing to mainstream views. Read the Bible hub link, including all the commentaries. Not a single comment using "Eve". All masculine case. " man, ἀνθρώπου (anthrōpou) Noun - Genitive Masculine Singular Strong's 444: A man, one of the human race. From aner and ops; man-faced, i.e. A human being." Not considering feminine Eve, not allowed to in Hebrew, when both sin, only the masculine is referenced. The King had to sin before changes to His kingdom, not just his queen, sinning alos. Duh. Contemporary English Version Adam sinned, and that sin brought death into the world. Now everyone has sinned, and so everyone must die. New Living Translation When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. R" So yes the first creature to sin was Eve, but Eve did not bring death into all the world through her. D"– the feminine brought sin and death into this world for manR" Wrong. Death came in after Adam sinned. God spoke to Adam first, because He was prince over the Creation, a ruler or reigner or king. Rp" You cannot answer who were the shedim who sinned like humans sin, in 1 John 3:8.D" Answered so many times that I tire of you Enoch’s Watchers – Azazael – santanali – satanas – archon If – you do not understand what happened in Gen 6 Then – you will not understand much of the ahl/OT and the agl/NT too evidently Beast → offspring → archon → bane elohiym - → Nephilim → Rephiem → evil spirits (shedim) → the 13 Families that rule the world → “entities that are anything but human – that have been manipulating this world from the outside – for eons”R" Real simple for children to follow Dave? So which of these creatures has free will to sin like humans sin? 1) How does your beast created by the HS make offspring without the feminine creature along with the masculine creature? Does Gnostic writings explain this? 2) Does GNostic writings use the term "archon" ? Explain how the beast becomes archon? Where does GNostic writings say this? 3) Prove to me the archons can become "bane elohiym" using Gnostic writings? I didn't know GNostic writings use the Hebrew words directly or indirectly "bane elohiym" ? 4) WHy do you mix GNostic teachings and Hebrew torah teachings? When they are different? Ether you support sola GNostic teachings, or sola Hebrew torah teachings? Instead you follow a mix of confusion. Some facts: No where is the term "archon" ever used as a "creature" that is created. The Greek term "archon" is the Hebrew word "shedim", and not once is the term used with "created", the term refers to "breast, milk" etc, and is a functional term for some creature that drinks false milk. In you desire to trust Gnostic writings, you cannot check on the translations of the Gnostic, since it is not available in electronic interlinear English. But we only validate the Hebrew into English, but not the Gnostic, so much faith you place on writings that mean nothing. D" Answered so many times that I tire of youR" Really, so many times? Quote where you have clearly labelled the creature that sins like humans that sin, indicating the creature has a free will to sin? Your "if" and "then" is a confusing mix of terms and make up stories.... No discussion from Dave. No sentences of logic thought. ---------------------- D" OH GOODY A ROBERT WORD GAME – to what point?R" You don't read my sentences do you? The point was to show you that the "yabbashah" came out of the "mayim" making the term "erets". Nowhere does the Genesis indicate the planet was also created, it already existed formless and void, is clearly taught, so the planet had these features: 1) it was dark - no light 2) it was void and formless - no features 3) living sinning angels were banished there - sinning caused this planet's featureless condition "earth" aka "dry land" was made during the Creation over this planet, after the sinning angels were banished there. That is my point, and not once did you pick up on my previous post. Proof you do not read my posts. D" SORRY ROBERT – THE HS WAS NOT CREATED R" Ps 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth. D" Evidently you deny that angels, archon, and man are the HOST of heavenR" SHow Bible texts that support this idea? ------------------------ www.theglobaldispatch.com/neuroscience-study-confirms-speaking-in-tongues-changes-brain-activity-blood-flow-96861/Not suprised at one study helping this view out. D" MOCK AWAY – the things you deny and therefore do not understand – just MOCK
R" God always answer me with this "Mt 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." So these people with these gifts, do they have amanuah in Jesus and walk as He walked and talk as He talked? D" THEN ANSWER THE QUESTION – why did God leave the 99% in ignorance If God is in control - Why did God set up the 1% vrs the 99% scenarioR" Dunno, you answer your own question. Let readers read clearly your answers for a change, instead of mocking my answers. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Nov 19, 2022 20:53:48 GMT -5
R" Why don't you talk about your view, rather than pretend that my view is shifting?
So confused – is God in control – and everything happens as God has laid out – according to God’s Plan Or – did you god lose control of His own creation over to your satan god?
R" Why don't you talk about your view, rather than pretend that my view is shifting? You cannot teach contradictory doctrines at the same time
MY VIEW
1 – Dispensation Ecc 3:1 For everything there is a season and a time for every activity under heaven:
We are not in the beginning of history We are not in the middle of history We are post – 1948 Israel
Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro,
Jer 29:14 Then I will be found by you,” says Adonai, “and I will return you from exile, and gather you from all the nations and from all the places where I have driven you,” says Adonai, “and I will bring you back to the place from which I removed you as captives into exile.”
Only today in history can these prophesies apply
Isa 11:11 It will also come about in that day that my Lord will again redeem—a second time with His hand—the remnant of His people who remain from Assyria, from Egypt, from Pathros, from Cush, Elam, Shinar, Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
Rom 11:25 For I do not want you, brothers and sisters, to be ignorant of this mystery—lest you be wise in your own eyes—that a partial hardening has come upon Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; Rom 11:26 and in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,
Only today in history are the Jewish Remnant (1948 Israel) poised to be redeemed
Jer 31:31 “Behold, days are coming”—it is a declaration of Adonai—“when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah
Only currently in history are Roman Christendom allied with Jewish Israel against a common cause – Allah and Islam Only currently in history are gentile / Caucasian / Roman Christendom allied with Caucasian Israel
2- Creation Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Knowledge will increase – not error – not lie – not more mystery
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the Good News, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who trusts—to the Jew first and also to the Greek. Rom 1:17 In it the righteousness of God is revealed, from trust to trust. As it is written, “But the righteous shall live by emunah.”
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men. In unrighteousness they suppress the truth, Rom 1:19 because what can be known about God is plain to them—for God has shown it to them. Rom 1:20 His invisible attributes—His eternal power and His divine nature—have been clearly seen ever since the creation of the world, being understood through the things that have been made. So people are without excuse— Rom 1:21 for even though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or give Him thanks.
Intelligent design includes entropy – it includes balance – it operates on the divine Laws of Nature Intelligent Design points to an Intelligent Designer / Creator
THE ORDER OF CREATION = The order of current scientific discovery The cosmology of astrophysics = THE ORDER OF CREATION Even the honest mapping of ‘evolution’ – agree with THE ORDER OF CREATION
even though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or give Him thanks. I say current scientific discovery validate scripture as INCREMENTAL CREATION
Scientific text books are now questioning evolution as plausible – and pointing to an Intelligent Design Many major scientist have taken the stand – Intelligent Design For 28 years I worked alongside geneticist – none accept evolution as plausible Only Robert and his Ellen White satanism deny this passage and claim it is proof satan is in control ------------------------
Entropy only came into Adam's world after Adam sinned.
Ge 3:17 / 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; Notice the changes as a result of sinning
1) ground is cursed, so soil loses it vitality for supplying food What did the ground do wrong = that it deserved to be cured – Robert’s meaning all DNA changed – death entered the world – vegetarian sharks changed – then died
ANSWER – scripture is all about man – not the dirt Gen 3:17 … Cursed is the ground because of you—with pain will you eat of it all the days of your life. Gen 3:18 Thorns and thistles will sprout for you. You will eat the plants of the field, Gen 3:19 By the sweat of your brow will you eat food, until you return to the ground,
Man went from paradise to the hardship of mortal life in this material world The only thing that changed was location – Paradise of Eden to the material world ------------------------------------
Ge 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: Who is the "us" here Dave, that defines the term "elohiym", knowing good and evil. The same us that created man – the Trinity Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness!
The Jews always had a duality – God the Father that never leaves His throne + the Shekinah – the feminine aspect of God that comes among the people - that tends the children Then God came down to earth in a body of flesh – to walk among man = Jesus Christ = Trinity – God the Creator – God in Spirit – God in the flesh ---------------------------
Rp" The first creatures to sin were the cherubims. You deny this. D" YES – I ABSOLUTELY DENY ROMAN CATHOLIC FALLEN ANGEL DOCTRINE – and ELLEN WHITE SATANISM R" You support Roman Catholic doctrine of trinity, don't you? YES – as just explained to you for the 169th time You support the Roman Catholic idea of life after death don't you? It is a Jewish teaching You support the Roman Catholic idea of pergatory and hell don't you? It is a Jewish teaching ------------------------
D"Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned.
The first creature to sin was Eve – the feminine brought sin and death into this world for man R" Your a Greek scholar, the Greek comes also with grammar case, just as Hebrew does, so the term "one man" is this masculine or feminine?
The term "anthropos" is masculine, I believe?
OH GOODY ANOTHER WORD GAME ARE YOU TEACHING THAT ONLY MEN CAN SIN - FEMALES ARE EXEMPT - ONLY MEN DIE BECAUSE OF SIN
Genesis was written in Hebrew - H120 – אָדָם - 'âdâm From H119; ruddy, that is, a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.):
Greek = G444 - ἄνθρωπος – From G435 and ὤψ ōps (the countenance; from G3700); manfaced, that is, a human being: -
Last time I checked the human race contained both males and females
Gen 1:27 (TLV) God created humankind (H120) in His image, in the image of God He created him, male and female He created them. Gen 1:27 (KJV) So God created man (H120) in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
If God only created men – what is a female man?
Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one human being and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all human beings because all sinned.
Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one humankind and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all humankind because all sinned. -------------------
Rp" You cannot answer who were the shedim who sinned like humans sin, in 1 John 3:8. D" Answered so many times that I tire of you Enoch’s Watchers – Azazael – santanali – satanas – archon If – you do not understand what happened in Gen 6 Then – you will not understand much of the ahl/OT and the agl/NT too evidently Beast → offspring → archon → bane elohiym - → Nephilim → Rephiem → evil spirits (shedim) → the 13 Families that rule the world → “entities that are anything but human – that have been manipulating this world from the outside – for eons”
1) How does your beast created by the HS make offspring without the feminine creature along with the masculine creature? Does Gnostic writings explain this? There are many creatures that reproduce asexually – and none of it is discussed within the ahl/OT
2) Does GNostic writings use the term "archon" ? Explain how the beast becomes archon? Where does GNostic writings say this? Language drift – Duh At the time of King Solomon and the ahl/OT – they were called shedim – in Hebrew During the first century they were called archon in Greek Around the 1900s the term the boogey man came out of the American South slang
(wiki) names for satan Abaddon—(Hebrew) the destroyer Adramalech—Samarian devil Ahpuch—Mayan devil Ahriman—Mazdean devil Amon—Egyptian ram-headed god of life and reproduction Apollyon—Greek synonym for Satan, the arch fiend Asmodeus—Hebrew devil of sensuality and luxury, originally "creature of judgment" Astaroth—Phoenician goddess of lasciviousness, equivalent of Babylonian Ishtar Azazel—(Hebrew) taught man to make weapons of war, introduced cosmetics This is just the ‘A’s
(google) Satan in other languages (just a few) Albanian = Satanai Basque = Satanas Catalan = Satanàs Greek = σατανάς Portuguese = Satanás
So many names = Roberts must be so confused
During the first century they were called archon in Greek Where does GNostic writings say this? Rom 8:38, Eph 1:21, 3:10, 6:12, Col 1:16, 2:15,
3) Prove to me the archons can become "bane elohiym" using Gnostic writings? DUH – everything created – is a child of God – he created us all – and why we call Him Father
4) WHy do you mix GNostic teachings and Hebrew torah teachings? When they are different? Actually Nag Hammadi Gospels are very much Jewish in though and doctrine Jewish devil has always been – Beelzebul and the shedim The Nag Hammadi calls them archon
Only Roman Catholicism denies Jewish teaching and replace it with their satan god of evil
Some facts: No where is the term "archon" ever used as a "creature" that is created. The Greek term "archon" is the Hebrew word "shedim", and not once is the term used with "created",
WHAT A RELEIF – THEY DON'T EXIST Why did the Apostille Paul lie to us - Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities (archon)
Why did the Apostille Paul lie to us - Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Why did the Disciple John lie to us - Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
In you desire to trust Gnostic writings, you cannot check on the translations of the Gnostic, since it is not available in electronic interlinear English. No one had your lazy man tools until the last 30 years Learn to read – learn to translate ------------------
D"Answered so many times that I tire of you R" Really, so many times? Quote where you have clearly labelled the creature that sins like humans that sin, indicating the creature has a free will to sin?
Your "if" and "then" is a confusing mix of terms and make up stories.... No discussion from Dave. No sentences of logic thought.
You deny that Gen 6 ever happened – you deny the spiritual – you deny that the Nephilim ever existed – or the Rephiem – or the ‘other gods’ or the sinister forces behind our current world government And you are left unable to answer simple questions because you have an incomplete theology focused upon your satan god – NOT THE CREATOR
Why did God order a genocide of the 7 tribes of Amorite Robert’s best answer – don’t look at that part – it never happened – his god is Feel Good Robert’s god cannot be the God of the Hebrews souljourning through the ahl/OT One war after another = Egypt – Jericho – Canaan – and finally Rome
D"THEN ANSWER THE QUESTION – why did God leave the 99% in ignorance If God is in control - Why did God set up the 1% vrs the 99% scenario R" Dunno, you answer your own question.
Easy To demonstrate to the whole world – that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the One True God
Why did Israel end up in Egypt - To demonstrate to the whole world – (through Moses) that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the One True God
Why did God give Abraham someone else’s land – then force Israel to take by force To demonstrate to the whole world – (through Joshua) that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the One True God
Why did Israel face off against one 'other god' after another all throughout the ahl/OT To demonstrate to the whole world – (through Joshua) that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the One True God
Why didn't Jesus change scripture To demonstrate to the whole world – (through Jesus) that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the One True God
Why was Jesus Christ Resurrected To demonstrate to the whole world – (through Jesus) that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the One True God - and LIFE LIVES ----------------------
D"OH GOODY A ROBERT WORD GAME – to what point? R" You don't read my sentences do you?
The point was to show you that the "yabbashah" came out of the "mayim" making the term "erets". Nowhere does the Genesis indicate the planet was also created, Proof you do not read my posts. FIRST YOU CLAIM THAT THE SHEDIM / ARCHON WERE NEVER CREATED AND DO NOT EXIST NOW YOU CLAIM PLANET EARTH WAS NEVER CREATED BUT YOU CLAIM THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT WAS CREATED
D"SORRY ROBERT – THE HS WAS NOT CREATED R" Ps 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.
So – do you have a point? The subject = Psa 104:23 Man goeth forth to his work, And to his service—till evening.
Psa 104:29 Thou hidest Thy face—they are troubled, Thou gatherest their spirit—they expire, And unto their dust they turn back. They – the subject = Psa 104:23 Man
Psa 104:30 Thou sendest out Thy Spirit, they are created, And Thou renewest the face of the ground. They – the subject = Psa 104:23 Man
Repeat - Learn to read – learn to translate
Psalms 104:30 – Adam Clark Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created - יבראון yibbareun, “They are created again.” And thou renewest the face of the earth - Do not these words plainly imply a resurrection of the bodies which have died, been dissolved, or turned to dust? And is not the brute creation principally intended here? Is it not on this account it is said, Psa_104:31, “the glory of the Lord shall endure for ever, (לעולם leolam),” to be manifest in those times which are secret, when Jehovah himself shall rejoice in his works; when the brute creation shall be delivered from the bondage of its corruption?
(Psa_104:30): - Mathew Henery Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created. The same spirit (that is, the same divine will and power) by which they were all created at first still preserves the several sorts of creatures in their being, and place, and usefulness; so that, though one generation of them passes away, another comes, and from time to time they are created; new ones rise up instead of the old ones, and this is a continual creation. Thus the face of the earth is renewed from day to day by the light of the sun (which beautifies it anew every morning), from year to year by the products of it, which enrich it anew every spring and put quite another face upon it from what it had all winter. The world is as full of creatures as if none died, for the place of those that die is filled up. This (the Jews say) is to be applied to the resurrection, which every spring is an emblem of, when a new world rises out of the ashes of the old one.
R" Ps 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth. S0 – do you have a point? If your point is that the HS is a created thing – why doesn’t anyone agree with you? Repeat - Learn to read – learn to translate ---------------------------
D"Evidently you deny that angels, archon, and man are the HOST of heaven R" SHow Bible texts that support this idea? Your turn – Mr serious scripture student - show me the text that prove the Host of heaven are another Jewish error
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Post by Dave on Nov 20, 2022 12:43:53 GMT -5
YOU HAVE JUST QUOTED MY VIEWR” GOD knows the end from the beginning and planned his reactions to actions, long before sinners sin. In fact we see from Scripture, GOD creates RA, so even the sinning cannot exist in God's world, unless GOD is always ultimately in control.Rev 4:11 'Worthy art Thou, O Lord, to receive the glory, and the honour, and the power, because Thou—Thou didst create the all things, and because of Thy will are they, and they were created.' Authoritative TeachingAnd before anything came into being, it was the Father alone who existed, before the worlds that are in the heavens appeared, or the world that is on the earth, or principality, or authority, or the powers. [...] appear [...] and [...] And nothing came into being without his wish.
He, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear, and make all those who contend leave behind the things that had come into being, and despise them with a lofty, incomprehensible knowledge, and flee to the one who exists.
And (as for) those who contend with us, being adversaries who contend against us, we are to be victorious over their ignorance through our knowledge, since we have already known the Inscrutable One from whom we have come forth. We have nothing in this world, lest the authority of the world that has come into being should detain us in the worldCol 1:16 because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created, THE BIG PICTUREThere is NO escaping prophesy – the world began – exist – and will end all according to God’s PlanTHE DISTRACTIONMan thinks he can change scripture Every church in America (except The Friends) pray for world peace - it is never going to happen! Richard and the Friends make a big issue about prayers – they always pray for God’s Will to be done! If - you are a student of history Then – You have to stop and Ponder – are the world leaders deliberately following scriptureIran’s president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad stood on the stage at the University of South Carolina and proclaimed – Ellen White’s Seventh Day Adventist Advent Math - as the road map for the coming of the Islamic Mahdi – with Jesus as his number 1 general laying waste to the Jews and Christian infidels www1.cbn.com/onlinediscipleship/iranian-president-prepares-for-12th-imam%27s-reappearanceIran’s president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, to set in motion the return of the 12th Imam, whom Shiites believe will forever end the struggle between good and evil in the last days. “It is far from certain that Mr. Ahmadinejad plans any such cataclysmic. But it would be wise to bear the possibility in mind,” Lewis wrote. Kairos Journal, which seeks to equip church leaders as they engage the culture for Christ and has several leading Southern Baptists on its editorial team, has taken a look at Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s fascination with the return of Shiite Muslims’ messiah and what that means if Ahmadinejad is armed with nuclear weapons. roparna.se/en/the-bahai-faith-and-the-advent-movement/The Baha’i Faith and the Advent MovementThe Advent Movement was a part of the Second Great Religious Awakening in America and extended to most parts of the world. (Miller / Ellen White SDA – Charles Russell Jehovah’s Witness – Joseph Smith and the Mormons + Bahia Islam)Seventh-Day Adventists believe that the Advent Awakening was a Divinely inspired movement meant to bring the world’s attention to the imminent Second Coming of Christ. But what about the Muslim world? Did they have a witness in the 19th Century? And did the movement actually make a lasting impression on Muslims? The answer is yes. To most people, the Baha’i Faith seems to be a random, independent world religion springing up in the 1840’s. But in fact it is a relic of the Advent Movement in Islam, misguided after the Great Disappointment in 1844. The existence of the Baha’i movement is a testimony to the fact that Muslims on a large scale expected the Second Coming of Christ in the same year as the Christians. It shows a close eschatological connection between the two religions, and adds credibility to the Seventh-Day Adventist claim that God was preparing the whole world for the Second Coming in the early 19th Century. Mat 24:23 'Then if any one may say to you, Lo, here is the Christ! or here! ye may not believe; Mat 24:24 for there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and they shall give great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, also the chosen. Ellen White and the SDA claims to be Christian – but preach the coming of the Islamic Messiah / Mahdi – and will fall for this false Islamic MessiahNO WONDER ROBERT RESUSES TO TAKE A STAND ON ISLAM AND ALLAH NO WONDER ROBERT WANTS TO DISMISS ALL THE ‘OTHER GODS’ OF THE LEVANT NO WONDER ROBERT WANTS TO DENY THE ARCHON / JINN / SHEDIM NO WONDER ROBERT WILL NOT DEFEND ELLEN WHITE - OR DEFEND THE SDA - OR HIMSELF NO WONDER ROBERT WILL NOT ANSWER QUESTIONS - ONLY ATTACK MAINSTREAM JUDEO-CHRISTIANITY ROBERT PRAISES THE WRONG GOD
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2022 16:04:44 GMT -5
Greetings Dave You present your view, thank you. But you had to add this mock "D" Only Robert and his Ellen White satanism deny this passage and claim it is proof satan is in controlR" What passage do I deny? D" What did the ground do wrong = that it deserved to be curedR" Do you understand Adam was prince / steward over God's Creation ? It was duty to work and keep the Creation ordered and nice (Gen 3:15) D" Robert’s meaning all DNA changedR" not all DNA, but parts of the DNA. Why do you deny this? When you have a change of prince over a kingdom, is the prince ruling over you, allowed to make changes to you, after all you are sinning like your prince is sinning? DO you agree to this idea? Do you agree that mischief could have happened to Eve, with a spoiling of some parts of her DNA? Mt 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? 28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this... Mt 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; R" So the shedim that sins like a human sins, is also our enemy according to Scripture, makes weeds. How is this possible? By spoiling parts of the DNA inside certain plants. Now you will disagree with all this because you do not have shedim that sin like humans sin, and you do not have your shedim as an enemy of man and God. D" ANSWER – scripture is all about man – not the dirtR" Why do you change torah, and twist you view over torah, rather than listen to torah teach you. Adam means "dirt" from adamah, the meaning here is "dirt". Adam looked reddish brown, the same colour as the dirt. Soil was not black in the garden of Eden, because nothing every died. D" The same us that created man – the Trinity Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness!
The Jews always had a duality – God the Father that never leaves His throne + the Shekinah – the feminine aspect of God that comes among the people - that tends the childrenR" The JEWS have no such thing Dave. Show me texts from Jewish Rabbi that speak of the HS walking around as a mother tending to her children (Israel). They do not have trinity either. They would term all this polytheism. Your idea of three persons of one person is weird. So your Father is cloned three times, one clone is masculine and another clone is feminine. Show me a website that agrees with your view, because I cannot find any that speak of three expressions of the Father. Jews would have seen the Shekinah as a force of the Father projecting himself among the people, like how a starfish has arms that move away from the centre. Jews would not agree to the Shekinah as a co-eternal, uncaused, eternal Personality of love in feminine form. That would be multiple gods in their view. My second question to you, is why do you adopt Roman Catholic doctrine on what elohiym is like ? aka trinity? Scripture does not teach this idea of elohiym. Scripture teaches elohiym is like a family. (eph 3:15) D" Then God came down to earth in a body of flesh – to walk among man = Jesus ChristR" Again you are wrong. Then Elohiym came down to earth in a body of flesh – to walk among man = Jesus Christ (another term for Most High expressed in masculine form) Show me a Bible text where elohiym came down dressed in masculine form as Jesus Christ. That is not how Jesus was produced. Jesus was produce using the same borning process as humans are, with real parents. Lu 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Elohiym is not mentioned here, but the members of elohiym are. The HS mother comes over Mary. The Most High Father comes over Mary. That which is born in Mary is their Son, Yashuah. A process of overshadowed, placed there intentionally by GOD to show Dave, that the expression idea is foolishness. To make a shadow, you require TWO objects, NOT one object, so your expression idea is bogus. This verse by the way is the most convincing proof that the Most HIgh and the HS are divine heavenly parents. What did they born in their eternal uncaused SON, humanity. Yashuah pre-existed as their SON from eternity as Jesus Christ, English terms for Yashuah YHWH. Previous posts" R" You support Roman Catholic doctrine of trinity, don't you? YES – as just explained to you for the 169th time You support the Roman Catholic idea of life after death don't you? It is a Jewish teaching You support the Roman Catholic idea of pergatory and hell don't you? It is a Jewish teachingR" Yes but trinity is NOT a Jewish doctrine, hence you support Roman Catholics, while Rob does not. Elohiym is not trinity, where is your scripture? But elohiym is family, and I showed you one verse already. D" ARE YOU TEACHING THAT ONLY MEN CAN SIN - FEMALES ARE EXEMPT - ONLY MEN DIE BECAUSE OF SINR" You are not a supporter of Jeff Benner are you? Obviously not. Read his material more and start learning Hebrew things from him. I also spoke of Adam as a prince. And Eve as a Queen. Again you do not read my posts, and you do not understand. D" Last time I checked the human race contained both males and femalesR"You are not a supporter of Jeff Benner are you? Obviously not. Read his material more and start learning Hebrew things from him. The Hebrew word "adon" means "Lord", the husband "baal" was also Lord over His family. And all things are written through him. Ge 18:5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: The masculine does the food preparation... Ge 18:6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth. The masculine asks the feminine to make the food Ge 18:7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it. The masculine seeks meat and delegates the food preparation to other family members Ge 18:8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; The masculine sets the table with food Ge 18:9 ¶ And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said, Behold, in the tent. The feminine is way behind the entertaining of the guests, behind her curtain door in the tent allocated from feminine members. "And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him." SO while all food is prepared by both genders, only the masculine is referenced (takes credit), because the male is Lord and Master over his house family. D" If God only created men – what is a female man?R" If you look closely the female was not created, but built from the male. She was already inside the man. Thus Scripture is correct the two become one, because the female was already inside the man, and came out of the man. This gives us clues to how love is and where love comes, and why you can have two personalities of loving, but only one FLESH, or ONE BEING. So I disagree with Jews who say a family is multiple gods, such a term is nonsense. A male and female is considered in Hebrew as the same cardinally one flesh, one body. See Lev 18. Le 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness. D" Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one human being and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all human beings because all sinned.R" This is also wrong Dave, you make disrespect to Hebrew grammar and Hebrew way of thinking. I suggest you read Jeff Benner for many hours and learn Hebrew thinking. The term you bold is masculine in Greek and masculine in Hebrew too. Death came through Adam. Not Eve. Why? Because Adam was king over Creation and Eve was queen over Creation, and while the feminine part of Adam sinned first, the masculine part has to sin as well in order for the kingdom Adam had reign over would change. Adam knew all this and decided to die with his wife, rather than ask GOD to build another sinless wife for him. You deny Adam was prince over Creation. You deny the shedim wanted this top ruling title of prince. Jesus came to overturn the assume title of the prince of this world, in order to overturn the penalty for mischief. D" There are many creatures that reproduce asexually – and none of it is discussed within the ahl/OTR" OK, I will accept your view's answer for now. Thanks. D" Language drift – Duh At the time of King Solomon and the ahl/OT – they were called shedim – in Hebrew During the first century they were called archon in GreekR" OK, I will accept your view's answer "Language drift " for now. Thanks. R" SO you are saying the chief archon made offspring of himself and ....where is the sinning described in the OT where the shedim sin like humans sin, and thus have free will to sin like humans sin? There is no OT saying how the shedim were created? SO you beginning notion is bogus? Where is the shedim being created by GOD as shedim? Not mentioned anywhere in Scripture. Only in another book, Gnostic writings. D" Only Roman Catholicism denies Jewish teaching and replace it with their satan god of evilR" I think the Catholics seek a true origin of the shedim, using Ezekiel, a inspired prophet. Where is your shedim created as shedim in Scripture OT? no where, so your ideas are bogus. D" WHAT A RELEIF – THEY DON'T EXIST Why did the Apostille Paul lie to us - Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities (archon)R" SHedim exist alright, but as sinning cherub that are described as shedim because they drink false milk. Hence the term SHAD, means "breast or milk or teat". You deny the term "SHAD" is a term dscribing a functional change to some creature, but you have NOT identified who this creature is. Ezekiel 28 tells you who they are. But denying Ezekiel 28, the whole origin of SHAD is make unknown and thus to speculation, hence why JEWS are confused. DO you really think the SHAD want their identity known? D" No one had your lazy man tools until the last 30 years Learn to read – learn to translateR" Not all of us have brains like that, Eric Livingstone had perfect memory of the entire NT in Greek for instance. But I don't. I use tools where it says knowledge shall increase, you posted this verse didn't you? D" You deny that Gen 6 ever happened – you deny the spiritual – you deny that the Nephilim ever existed – or the Rephiem – or the ‘other gods’ or the sinister forces behind our current world governmentR" John says the shedim sin like humans sin from the beginning, Gen 6 is NOT in the beginning, though the term is relative. The serpent shedim was in Eden, so was sinning to get Eve to do her sinning, but making a twisting false report to her, using only the truth as Jeff Benner explains, the serpent still nevertheless sinned to get Eve to sin. If I befuddle you with truth, I am sinning against you, messing up your mind and making you captive to twisting words. Scripture says I must edify you. The Shedim did not edify Eve at all. You deny the shedim existed before Gen 6, and the garden of Eden tells us the shedim already existed. DO you accept the serpent in the garden of Eden was a shedim? Therefore the shedim already existed before man existed. And so 1 John tells us the shedim sin like humans sin. How is this possible, unless they are to support the moral laws that define sin, like humans have to? Royal law tells us not to worship shedim as false elohiym powers, but you deny this command in the royal torah, proves the law existed long long ago, describing shedim and GOD. D" Why did God order a genocide of the 7 tribes of AmoriteR" Off topic. 1 John 3:8 says the shedim sin like humans sin in the beginning. Amorite tribes are not in the beginning. D"T o demonstrate to the whole world – (through Jesus) that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the One True God - and LIFE LIVESR" It says in Scripture Jesus body did not decay, his biological arms and legs did not decay when dead in the tomb, so something wrong with your "life lives". If you have divinity fully in you, as in the case of Jesus, not even the biology decays, when you experience death. Hence Moses lived on the mountain 40 days and 40 nights without food or water, because divinity kept his biology going. Ellen White spoke hours on end, without breathing a drop of moisture from her speaking, nor did she blink, for hours on end, divinity over took her biology. So Dave, only DIVINITY LIVES. And divinity in you stops the biology wearing out and decaying. D" FIRST YOU CLAIM THAT THE SHEDIM / ARCHON WERE NEVER CREATED AND DO NOT EXIST NOW YOU CLAIM PLANET EARTH WAS NEVER CREATED BUT YOU CLAIM THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT WAS CREATEDR" Dave at times I am done with your mocking. You misquote me all the time and never read my posts. Can't you fathom logic and sombody elses view. I understand your view very well but you do not understand my view. Planet earth was created by some other creation . I assume there were other creations, God is not limited to one universe and one creation. There would have been dozens of creations and dozens of universes since eternity. SHAD is not a creature, it's a term meaning creatures that sin, drinking false milk, hence SHAD. The creature that sins and thus drinks false milk is the cherub, the only other creature apart from man mentioned in Scripture as having sinned. I pity you do not read sola Scriptoria as I do. The MEDIUM is created yes, to allow sinning to be oberves, the SHADDAY is not created, and existed co-eternal uncaused as the feminine mother of elohiym. A medium requires matter in order to exist, the Shadday is not of matter. Try to fathom my terms Dave. In Job 33:3, the term MEDIUM and SHadday are both together as one simile of the other for living. Hence the Shadday administrates the MEDIUM as the HS, a term we humans apply to this Hebrew word. D"They – the subject = Psa 104:23 Man
Repeat - Learn to read – learn to translateR" OK, and where does man get the MEDIUM from within the MAN? It's created. Not some eternal spark given to man from Gen 1:1 as you claim. You should learn to read. Man is partnered to the MEDIUM in order to exist. DUH that is how living in man working. We are partnered to the MOST HIGH, and thus we live. When MAN sins this ability to live remains, because the medium is created. And RA is also created. AND GOD is always in control, despite your sinning. D" If your point is that the HS is a created thing – why doesn’t anyone agree with you?R" Because Ellen White, the nature of the HS is a mystery and silence is golden. I agree with her. How many people understand what a medium is? Dave even refuses to understand shadows .... Repeat - Learn to read – learn to understand science objects lessons to apply to Scripture D" Your turn – Mr serious scripture student - show me the text that prove the Host of heaven are another Jewish errorR" I did, I showed you last post, related to time, Sabbath, physical things of time. Generations and day, are time words. ------------------------next post---------------- D" YOU HAVE JUST QUOTED MY VIEW R” GOD knows the end from the beginning and planned his reactions to actions, long before sinners sin. In fact we see from Scripture, GOD creates RA, so even the sinning cannot exist in God's world, unless GOD is always ultimately in control.R" How about that D" The existence of the Baha’i movement is a testimony to the fact that Muslims on a large scale expected the Second Coming of Christ in the same year as the Christians. It shows a close eschatological connection between the two religions, and adds credibility to the Seventh-Day Adventist claim that God was preparing the whole world for the Second Coming in the early 19th Century.R" Interesting D" Ellen White and the SDA claims to be Christian – but preach the coming of the Islamic Messiah / Mahdi – and will fall for this false Islamic MessiahR" What ? / D" NO WONDER ROBERT WILL NOT DEFEND ELLEN WHITE - OR DEFEND THE SDA - OR HIMSELF NO WONDER ROBERT WILL NOT ANSWER QUESTIONS - ONLY ATTACK MAINSTREAM JUDEO-CHRISTIANITY
ROBERT PRAISES THE WRONG GODR" Before you mock as you do all the time, try to at least understand my view, as I graceiously do for your view. I do not mock your view, only question it. So your archon in the beginning made offspring and .... Where does Scripture says the archon was created as archon / shedim? It doesn't. The term "SHAD" comes from other words like breast, test, milk and Shadday. Since we don't know if the Shedim was created as shedim, we can read from 1 john the shedim sin like humans sin. We where do we read of some other creature like a human, SIMILE, that SIN like humans sin, also a SIMILE? Ezekiel 28, the cherub sinned. Hence the cherub became the SHAD when it drinks its own words of milk, rather than drinking God's words through faith. Hence the shedim are SELF drinkers of their own words. This is where the term comes from, and this creature did this in the beginning, long before man existed, to be written in the royal law, as a command, do not bow down to false elohiym powers (shedim). Shalom
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Post by Dave on Nov 21, 2022 10:15:28 GMT -5
You present your view, thank you. But you had to add this mock "D" Only Robert and his Ellen White satanism deny this passage and claim it is proof satan is in control If I repeat your own teaching back to you – you say I am mocking you – why is that?R" What passage do I deny?Your pretend ignorance is not endearing2- CreationDan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. Knowledge will increase – not error – not lie – not more mysteryRom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the Good News, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who trusts—to the Jew first and also to the Greek. Rom 1:17 In it the righteousness of God is revealed, from trust to trust. As it is written, “But the righteous shall live by emunah.” Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men. In unrighteousness they suppress the truth, Rom 1:19 because what can be known about God is plain to them—for God has shown it to them. Rom 1:20 His invisible attributes—His eternal power and His divine nature—have been clearly seen ever since the creation of the world, being understood through the things that have been made. So people are without excuse— Rom 1:21 for even though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or give Him thanks. Intelligent design includes entropy – it includes balance – it operates on the divine Laws of Nature Intelligent Design points to an Intelligent Designer / CreatorTHE ORDER OF CREATION = The order of current scientific discovery The cosmology of astrophysics = THE ORDER OF CREATION Even the honest mapping of ‘evolution’ – agree with THE ORDER OF CREATION even though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or give Him thanks.I say current scientific discovery validate scripture as INCREMENTAL CREATIONScientific text books are now questioning evolution as plausible – and pointing to an Intelligent Design Many major scientist have taken the stand – Intelligent Design For 28 years I worked alongside geneticist – none accept evolution as plausible Only Robert and his Ellen White satanism deny this passage and claim it is proof satan is in control We have been over this passage 68 times – your pretend ignorance is not endearing You argue – God tried to make a tov world – but your satan was responsible for causing it all to change – all DNA changed – death entered the world – nothing died before Gen 3 You taught that Rom 1:19 and the evidence of an Intelligent Design proves your satan is in controlPsa 19:2 + Rom 1:19 = WEDD + INCREMENTAL CREATION + FD-WEDT From the first moment of creation the Laws of Nature were written1st Law of Thermodynamics - Energy cannot be created or destroyed. It can only be translated or transmutted. 2nd Law of Thermodynamics - For a spontaneous process, the entropy of the universe increases Rev 12:4 the Beast appeared – ready to devour whatever was created Gen 1:2 – choshesk – darkness = ignorance (NOT SIN) Gen 1:14 – Day 4 – from the first moment the sun ignited – it was destined to burn out Gen 1:22 – God commandant all biology to – go forth be fruitful and multiply (yester ra) Gen 1:28 - same commandment repeated to man + to subdue and have dominion (yester ra) Gen 1:31 – God said it was tov Psa 19:2 + Rom 1:19 = WEDD + INCREMENTAL CREATION + FD-WEDT From the first moment of creation the Laws of Nature were writtenTHE CYCLE OF LIFEEarth of Gen 1:2 did not magically become the Planet Earth with Eden Even scripture tells us it required a series of separation events THE CYCLE OF LIFEFrom birth → growth → maturity → death → rebirth and new life Stars do it – galaxies do it – plants do it – birds and bees do it Little fish are eaten by bigger fish - who are just bait for even bigger fish Psa 19:2 + Rom 1:19 = WEDD + INCREMENTAL CREATION + FD-WEDT From the first moment of creation the Laws of Nature were written Museums are filled with the evidence – peer reviewed and open to public examination You argue – God tried to make a tov world – but your satan was responsible for causing it all to change – all DNA changed – death entered the world – nothing died before Gen 3Psa 19:2 = proof of your satan’s handiwork Rom 1:19 Because that which is known of God is manifest among them, for God did manifest it to them, You taught that Rom 1:19 and the evidence of an Intelligent Design is proof of your satan’s handiworkD"Robert’s meaning all DNA changed R" not all DNA, but parts of the DNA. Why do you deny this? When you have a change of prince over a kingdom, is the prince ruling over you, allowed to make changes to you, after all you are sinning like your prince is sinning? DO you agree to this idea? Entropy only came into Adam's world after Adam sinned. - Notice the changes as a result of sinning See - there you are - Robert and his Ellen White satanism deny this passage and claim it is proof satan is in control---------------------- Mt 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? 28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this... Mt 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; YEP – those darn weeds are commanded by God to fill the earth AND commanded by God to bother man – Gen 3:18Either the enemy of man is the World – and the realities of living in a mortal world – The Beast’s domain Or you are teaching that God is the devil------------------------- R" So the shedim that sins like a human sins, is also our enemy according to Scripture, makes weeds. How is this possible? By spoiling parts of the DNA inside certain plants. THERE IS NO SECOND CREATOR – AND NO SECOND CREATION AFTER DAY 6Now you will disagree with all this because you do not have shedim that sin like humans sin, DENY AWAY – MISSREPRESENT AND LIE – it is your only defense The ‘sinning angels’ of Jude and 2 Peter are the Gigori (archon – bane elohitm – Nephilim – shedim) of Gen 6 you do not have your shedim as an enemy of man. The archon are our real struggle – Eph 6and you do not have your shedim as an enemy of God. WHO CAN OPPOSE GOD – NO ONE WHO CAN CHANGE GOD – NO ONE------------------------- Ge 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: Who is the "us" here Dave, that defines the term "elohiym", knowing good and evil. D"The same us that created man – the Trinity Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness! The Jews always had a duality – God the Father that never leaves His throne + the Shekinah – the feminine aspect of God that comes among the people - that tends the children R" The JEWS have no such thing Dave. Show me texts from Jewish Rabbi that speak of the HS walking around as a mother tending to her children (Israel). 3 years ago I forgave you ignorance because I thought it was from a lack of education But you know better now You argue from a position of ignorance and you do it by choiceExo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. Exo 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock: Exo 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: Exo 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen. jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/6713-glory-of-godSHEKINAH (; lit. "the dwelling"): (Redirected from GLORY OF GOD.)The majestic presence or manifestation of God which has descended to "dwell" among men. Like Memra (= "word"; "logos") and "Yeḳara" (i.e., "Kabod" = "glory"), the term was used by the Rabbis in place of "God" where the anthropomorphic expressions of the Bible were no longer regarded as proper (see Anthropomorphism). The word itself is taken from such passages as speak of God dwelling either in the Tabernacle or among the people of Israel (see Ex. xxv. 8, xxix. 45-46; Num. v. 3, xxxv. 34; I Kings vi. 13; Ezek. xliii. 9; Zech. ii. 14 [A. V. 10]). Occasionally the name of God is spoken of as descending (Deut. xii. 11; xiv. 23; xvi. 6, 11; xxvi. 2; Neh. i. 9). It is especially said that God dwells in Jerusalem (Zech. viii. 3; Ps. cxxxv. 21; I Chron. xxiii. 25), on Mount Zion (Isa. viii. 18; Joel iv. [A. V. iii.] 17, 21; Ps. xv. 1, lxxiv. 2), and in the Temple itself (Ezek. xliii. 7). Allusion is made also to "him that dwelt in the bush" (Deut. xxxiii. 16, ); and it is said that "the glory of the Lord abode upon Mount Sinai" (Ex. xxiv. 16). The term "Shekinah," which is Hebrew, whereas "Memra" and "Yeḳara" are Aramaic, took the place of the latter two in Talmudand Midrash, and thus absorbed the meaning which they have in the Targum, where they almost exclusively occur. Nevertheless the word "Shekinah" occurs most frequently in the Aramaic versions, since they were intended for the people and were actually read to them, and since precautions had therefore to be taken against possible misunderstandings in regard to the conception of God. The word "dwell" in the Hebrew text is accordingly rendered in the Targumim by the phrase "let the Shekinah rest" (e.g., Ex. xxv. 8; xxix. 45, 46; Num. v. 3, xxxv. 34; Deut. xxxii. 10 [R. V. "he compassed him about"]; Ps. lxxiv. 2). Onḳelos translates "Elohim" in Gen. ix. 27 by "Shekinah"; and wherever the person, the dwelling, or the remoteness of God is mentioned, he paraphrases by the same word (Num. xiv. 14, 42; xvi. 3; xxxv. 34; Deut. i. 42, iii. 24, iv. 39, vi. 15, vii. 21, xxiii. 16, xxxi. 17); so too, wherever the Name occurs, he substitutes for it the term "Shekinah" (Deut. xii. 5, 11, 21), and "presence" or "face" is translated the same way (Ex. xxxiii. 14-15; Num. vi. 25; Deut. xxxi. 17-18; see Maybaum, "Anthropomorphien," etc., pp. 52-54). Targ. pseudo-Jonathan and Yerushalmi adopt a like system, as in Ps. xvi. 8, lxxxix. 47, Lam. ii. 19, and Cant. vi. 1 (ib. pp. 64 et seq.). Where the text states that God dwells in the Temple above the cherubim (as in Hab. ii. 20; I Sam. iv. 4; II Sam. vi. 2; I Kings viii. 12, 13; xiv. 21; Ps. lxxiv. 2), or that God has been seen (Isa. vi. 6 et seq.; Ex. iii. 6; Ezek. i. 1; Lev. ix. 4), the Yerushalmi has "Shekinah"; and even where it describes God as abiding in heaven, the same word is used (Isa. xxxiii. 5; Deut. iii. 24, iv. 39). This statement holds true also of allusions to His remoteness or to the hiding of His face (Hos. v. 6; Isa. viii. 17, xlv. 15; Hastings, "Dict. Bible," iv. 488b). The Temple is called the "house of the Shekinah" (Targ. Onḳ. to Deut. xii. 5; Ps. xlix. 15, cviii. 8); and the term likewise occurs in connection with "glory" ("yeḳara"; Ruth ii. 12; Cant. iii. 6, iv. 6, v. 6; Ps. xliv. 25, lxviii. 19, cxv. 16; Jer. xix. 18) and with "holiness" (Cant. i. 10, ii. 2, iii. 2, vi. 1; Ps. lxxiv. 12, lxxxvi. 3). Your idea of three persons of one person is weird. So your Father is cloned three times, YOU ARE INSULTING - - why do you think it fun to mock the Lord – satan boy---------------------------------- D"Then God came down to earth in a body of flesh – to walk among man = Jesus Christ R" Again you are wrong. D"Of course you do - you teach that Christ is just a man of biology R" I teach Jesus Christ is YHWH You absolutely deny the concept of God incarnate You argue - How Can YHWY and Jesus talk together if they are the same person[/quote] SORRY ROBERT – IT IS THE FOUNDATION OF CHRISTIANITYD"Why did God order a genocide of the 7 tribes of Amorite R" Off topic. 1 John 3:8 says the shedim sin like humans sin in the beginning. Amorite tribes are not in the beginning. WORD GAMES REFUSAL TO ANSWER – BECAUSE YOU DENY SCRIPTURE IS TRUTHFUL - YOUR GOD CANNOT KILL or has ever asked man to kill1 -FIRST YOU CLAIM THAT THE SHEDIM / ARCHON WERE NEVER CREATED 2- NOW YOU CLAIM PLANET EARTH WAS NEVER CREATED 3- BUT YOU CLAIM THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT WAS CREATED R" Dave at times I am done with your mocking. You misquote me all the time and never read my posts. WHICH IS A MISQUOTE? Are the shedim / archon /Principalities created by God for God as Paul says Col 1:16 – or NOTYou just claimed that the earth existed before creationQuoting Ellen White you said And you claim that your medium is a created thing – quoting Psa 104 R" Dave at times I am done with your mocking. You misquote me all the time and never read my posts. IF you call exposing your bull shit – mocking – then I do mock , but have I misquoted you? Can't you fathom logic and sombody elses view. I understand your view very well but you do not understand my view.1- I absolutely disagree with your foundational anti-Christian teachingsFact - There is only one God Fact - The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God Fact – Christ is the image of God Fact – Jesus Christ is God Incarnate Fact – Jesus died upon the cross and Christ spiritually returned to heaven to preach to the lost spirits of the time of Noah Fact – The Resurrection is proof that LIFE LIVES – there is a real and active afterlife Fact – you will meet your maker and you will be judged Fact – God is fair and judgment is proportional Fact – Psa 19:2 + Rom 1:19 all validate that GODS IS THE ONE TRUE CREATOR You take the opposite view – each and every point Yet you pretend to be a ChristianAND – to the most of our conversation you present conflicting views So no one here really knows what you stand for – or what you really believe – because it changes as we speakSHAD is not a creature, it's a term meaning creatures that sin, drinking false milk, hence SHAD. The creature that sins and thus drinks false milk is the cherub, the only other creature apart from man mentioned in Scripture as having sinned. I pity you do not read sola Scriptoria as I do.Correct – I do not read scripture as you do – I believe scriptureCol 1:16 For by Him all things were created—in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen, whether thrones or angelic powers or rulers (ARCHON) or authorities. All was created through Him and for Him. SHAD (or whatever name you choose to play with- Archon, Jinn, serpent race, Beast, devils, demons, boogie men, or satanas) IS A CREATURE – created by God for GodThe MEDIUM is created yes, to allow sinning to be oberves, the SHADDAY is not created, and existed co-eternal uncaused as the feminine mother of elohiym.WHAT IS THIS - CREATED OR NOT CREATED?no one here really knows what you stand for – or what you really believe – because it changes as we speak D"They – the subject = Psa 104:23 Man Repeat - Learn to read – learn to translate R" OK, and where does man get the MEDIUM from within the MAN? Here we go in circles – over and over The Word of God = the 2nd dimensional planar base EM that sustains all creation A medium requires matter in order to exist – absolute error – just nonsense Dissect corporeal matter to its infinity and it is only a balance of ethereal forces And why science question if our reality isn’t just a hologram – an illusion The Word of God = the 2nd dimensional planar base EM that sustains all creation God spoke the word – and the word went out – expanded – God at a distance It's not some eternal spark given to man from Gen 1:1 as you claim. You should learn to read.I do not claim is was given to man in Gen 1 – man is not the Holy Spirit Man is a created being – independent individuals and unique Just as angels are not the HS – they are created beings – independent individuals and unique Just as archon / shedim are not the HS – they are created beings – independent individuals and unique --------------------------- D"If your point is that the HS is a created thing – why doesn’t anyone agree with you? R" Because Ellen White, the nature of the HS is a mystery and silence is golden. I agree with her. How many people understand what a medium is? So you admit it – all the world – all the evidence – all the experts throughout all the generations all have to be wrong for Ellen White to be correct------------------------ D"Your turn – Mr serious scripture student - show me the text that prove the Host of heaven are another Jewish error R" I did, I showed you last post, related to time, Sabbath, physical things of time. Generations and day, are time words. WHAT GOBBELITY GOOK IS THIS?D"The existence of the Baha’i movement is a testimony to the fact that Muslims on a large scale expected the Second Coming of Christ in the same year as the Christians. It shows a close eschatological connection between the two religions, and adds credibility to the Seventh-Day Adventist claim that God was preparing the whole world for the Second Coming in the early 19th Century. R" Interesting D"Ellen White and the SDA claims to be Christian – but preach the coming of the Islamic Messiah / Mahdi – and will fall for this false Islamic Messiah R" What ? / Correct – SDA Advent Math – predict the coming of the Islamic Mahdi – the Islamic Messiah that will lay waste to the Jews and all the Christian Infidels
D"NO WONDER ROBERT WILL NOT DEFEND ELLEN WHITE - OR DEFEND THE SDA - OR HIMSELF NO WONDER ROBERT WILL NOT ANSWER QUESTIONS - ONLY ATTACK MAINSTREAM JUDEO-CHRISTIANITY ROBERT PRAISES THE WRONG GOD R" Before you mock as you do all the time, try to at least understand my view, as I graceiously do for your view. I do not mock your view, only question it. IT IS EASY TO MOCK – WHEN YOU REFUSE TO DEFEND YOUR OWN THEOLOGYAll this time you have refuse to answer - who is Allah and the Jinn What do Allah and the Jinn have to do with the Beelzebul and the shedim What do Allah and the ‘other gods’ of the Levant have to do with ancient Hebrew history What do Allah and the Jinn have to do with 1948 Israel – or current events D"ANSWER THE QUESTION – why did God leave the 99% in ignorance If God is in control - Why did God set up the 1% vrs the 99% scenario R" Dunno,Robert’s theology leaves him in uneducated ignorance and denial WHY CAN’T YOU ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS? Because you absolutely deny the reality of Gen 6 and the impact it had on history and the impact it has on history today You take the opposite view – each and foundational teaching of Christianity You absolute deny the reality of the archon You preach two gods and two kings Yet you pretend to be a Christian
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2022 15:50:31 GMT -5
Greetings Dave RP" Entropy only came into Adam's world after Adam sinned. - Notice the changes as a result of sinningD" See - there you are - Robert and his Ellen White satanism deny this passage and claim it is proof satan is in control
R" OK show me from Scripture only that GOD includes the "cycle of life" ie, From birth → growth → maturity → death → rebirth and new life. GOD is living, and I do not see any need for GOD to include death in his methods. If Moses was on the mountain 40 days and nights without eating and drinking, than GOD can keep biology alive without your so called "cycle of life". Jesus had biology living in the grave for 3 days and nights while "dead", assuming we understand this term anyhow. You can pick a flower in heaven at it will never decay or lose its colur or fade. God is living and living plants and animals do not need processes for maintaining their living, as you claim. You have an entirely different GOD than I do, one that seems to naturally enjoy flawed worlds and flawed creation. And than you come over to my view in the next creation, GOD makes all things brand new, without this flawed concept, so why didn't GOD do it this way the first creation for earth? In fact looking at the Greek word kainos in Rev 21, the Creation is the same as the next one anyway, despite you arguing it is not, it is exactly the same as the previous one, renewed, not brand new. D" YEP – those darn weeds are commanded by God to fill the earthR" You even twist Scripture.... 28 Jesus said unto them, An enemy hath done this... Mt 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; God is not an enemy, Jesus said An enemy did this. Something wrong with your reading of Scripture. D" Either the enemy of man is the World – and the realities of living in a mortal world – The Beast’s domain Or you are teaching that God is the devilR" You can't even read Scripture. BOY what is wrong with you? Matthew 13: 28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this... Mt 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; SInce when is the word "devil", "world". Come on Dave, read the words properly. The SHEDIM is a BEING who is spoken by Jesus as an enemy, who made the weeds. How are weeds made. But doing mischief, spoiling the DNA inside the plant. D" THERE IS NO SECOND CREATOR – AND NO SECOND CREATION AFTER DAY 6R" I agree, the SHEDIM is not a CREATOR, but the SHEDIM is a SPOILER. D" DENY AWAY – MISSREPRESENT AND LIE – it is your only defense The ‘sinning angels’ of Jude and 2 Peter are the Gigori (archon – bane elohitm – Nephilim – shedim) of Gen 6R" SO glad you put inverted commas now, its a theory of yours, Your angels cannot sin, do not have free will to sin, yet have intelligence to ask God to go down to earth and prevent this "thing" happening on earth. Really Dave. Gen 6 is NOT in the beginning, not even close. You are a few billion years out. The SHEDIM was in the Garden of Eden, existed before humans even existed. RP" you do not have your shedim as an enemy of God.D" WHO CAN OPPOSE GOD – NO ONER" Well, well. Than the Bible declaration of Jesus is wrong than. Matthew 13: 28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this... Mt 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; Just because the SHEDIM is an enemy does not mean the SHEDIM can overturn God as supreme ruler, even though the SHEDIM opposes GOD as an enemy. Why else is the SHEDIM written in the royal law, as a false elohiym power Dave? Written there in the law long before humans even existed? Explain that, if you can. RP" Show me texts from Jewish Rabbi that speak of the HS walking around as a mother tending to her children (Israel).Dave replies with " 3 years ago I forgave you ignorance because I thought it was from a lack of education But you know better now You argue from a position of ignorance and you do it by choiceR" I do not see a passage posted, only links to read. Not a single passage posting what I asked for Dave. RP " Your idea of three persons of one person is weird. So your Father is cloned three times,D" YOU ARE INSULTING - R" SO you agree you cannot supply me one website that agrees with you that your Father is a trinity of three expressions of Himself. There I write the words with more diplomacy. Now where is your website about this view? D" You argue - How Can YHWY and Jesus talk together if they are the same person SORRY ROBERT – IT IS THE FOUNDATION OF CHRISTIANITYR" OK show me a website that agrees with you? Supports this idea of ONE cardinal strong authority in three expressions of the same BEING. D" Christ was truly GodR" What you are saying here is Christ was truly ELohiym. And this is correct. Sarah was truely married to Abraham, her LORD. Sarah could buy land in a market, and the men who sold it to her were selling it to Abraham. She was Abraham in this sense with the same authority. That is how Hebrew family is and described in Scripture. But Sarah is a different personality of loving to Abraham. But they are the same flesh, both the same being with the same sense of power. You do not understand the Hebrew word "echad". D" John 1:1-3In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning.R" You play word games, saying Christ was Elohiym, or CHrist was Eloah, the Father. The word imrah, eloah and elohiym are all different Hebrew words with different word meanings. Pr 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. A tricky poem serve here, who is "he" and "him" The words have "imrah" and "eloah" Dave is saying the imrah is a speech of the eloah and Eloah is a shield and we place our trust in Eloah. Eloah is the name of the Most High. But the passage also speaks of the ruwach and this SON, what is His Name? If thou can tell? The challenge is to look for the Son's name?
Imrah is the SON personifying the Father. Just as the ruwach also personifies the Father's words as a medium for all who drink milk from the Father through faith. Rather than post links for reading stuff Dave, post the passage where Jesus is actually the Father on earth, and you will get my attention. This belief of yours is called modalism as I understand it. But I am not a lover of words that man invents to confuse us. I prefer to stick to sola scriptoria. D" REFUSAL TO ANSWER – BECAUSE YOU DENY SCRIPTURE IS TRUTHFUL - YOUR GOD CANNOT KILL or has ever asked man to killR" Been there done that for you. God did not kill them, He took back the living process of relationship that is Gods conditional gift to us as humans. God can do with His gift as He wants. He is the overall king is He not? No Ratsach is exactly what the commandment says. God gave them 400 years to choose but they did not, so the gift from God is removed. This is not killing, as you claim. D" Are the shedim / archon /Principalities created by God for God as Paul says Col 1:16 – or NOTR" Fair question. Thanks for a good reply. Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. The passage that follows explains what Paul is talking about. He is saying GOD is above all things, even the things that happened in the beginning. arche, is this a created being, or a created time related process? arche 56 verses Mt 19:4 made them male and female, not created Mt 19:8 made marriage, not created marriage Mt 24:8 sorrow is the beginning Mt 24:21 tribulation after the beginning Mr 1:1 In the beginning, the gospel of Jesus Mr 10:6 in the beginning male and female was created Mr 13:19 NOT from the beginning (R" proof all things was perfect for Adam before He sinned) Lu 1:2 from beginning we are eyewitnesses Lu 12:11 bring you to synagogues and "arche" translated as magistrates? R: Hmm? Since from the beginning the priests were judges and thus able to make verdicts over humans in trouble. This meaning has taken an idiom. Lu 12:11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and ( functioning from the beginning as priests ruling and judging humans with ) ( idom for arche in this context) powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: Lu 20:20 Same idea as Luke 12:11 Ac 10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners "arche" , and let down to the earth: R" Another strange context, dunno. Romans 8: 38 Ro 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord R" This verse may add a little to Dave's view, arche is included here as a creature? But Paul terms the creature as "angels"? Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. The arche, possibly also a creature is considered here as a "ruler of darkness" ? 1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: Also using arche, John writes many humans become children of the SHEDIM, these are rulers of darkness. The SHEDIM also sin as humans sin. Jude 1:6 And <te> the angels <aggelos> which kept <tereo> not <me> their <heautou> first estate <arche>, Jude is the only writer telling us the creatures from the beginning were "messengers" that sin, like humans sin. R" Summary. So yes the creatures were all created by GOD. Dave further wants to add that the SHEDIM were created by GOD, as the term "arche" suggests. "Hebrew re'shiyth" means "Greek arche" "Hebrew shedim" means "Greek diabolos" Are these equivalents correct? R" I do not see the Shedim or Diabolos as being Created, they become sinning, not were created that way. ----------------------------- Rob replies" Fact - There is only one Elohiym true PowerFact - The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of ElohiymFact – Christ is the image of ElohiymFact – Jesus Christ is Elohiym IncarnateFact – Jesus died upon the cross Fact – The Resurrection is proof that DIVINITY LIVES – there is a real and active afterlife with ElohiymFact – you will meet your maker and you will be judgedFact – God is fair and judgment is proportionalFact – Psa 19:2 + Rom 1:19 all validate that Elohiym IS THE ONE TRUE CREATORR" As you can see you are confused as what the term Elohiym means, it does not mean Eloah.D" SHAD (or whatever name you choose to play with- Archon, Jinn, serpent race, Beast, devils, demons, boogie men, or satanas) IS A CREATURE –R" Sure correct Now show me that SHEDIM is created, the same word for "arche" which is the Hebrew word "beginning"? Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created—in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen, whether thrones or angelic powers or rulers (ARCHON) Better translated as Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created—in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen, whether thrones or angelic powers or "any functional process established from the beginning" (ARCHE) Not as you claim "archon". Hebrew word is "re'shiyth" D" no one here really knows what you stand for – or what you really believe – because it changes as we speakR" No it does not. My belief has not changed, the words do not change meanings either. RP" R" OK, and where does man get the MEDIUM from within the MAN?D" Here we go in circles – over and over
RP" A medium requires matter in order to exist D" – absolute error – just nonsense
R" You agree with me at a substomic level all life is sustained by GOD, so why do you mock me when I say the HS partners with living things in order to make them living? Such animals can still be independent and free thinking with free will to make decisions, even Alex the parrot. Medium is a science term for things involving media, and media is matter. The medium is a process using media, or matter. Light (both a wave and particle) enters the air (media) and is refracted (a medium affect). Sound (an energy form) travels though air (media) and is changed when relected off moving objects (media) and this change is a medium affect ( frequency of sound relative to motion). Overshadow / under the wings of the Shadday when being in the presence of the Most HIgh as Psalms 91 speaks Ps 91:1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Here the Shadday's wings filters the Most HIGH powers of love / light, causing us to dwells comfortable under the power the Most High, without the power killing us. You say the medium affect is done with out matter? Hmm? The verse uses shadow, wings, light and speaks of two Divine Personalities of Love. Ps 91:4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler. "wings, shield and buckler" are objects of matter, so I do not understand where you say "mediums do not require media, and media always uses matter" ? D" So you admit it – all the world – all the evidence – all the experts throughout all the generations all have to be wrong for Ellen White to be correctR" NO Dave, some mysteries are best left unsaid. Not everybody has the same level of education. D" Robert’s theology leaves him in uneducated ignorance and denialR" Actually this Messanic message came emailed today I quote" Had God's people obeyed the Ten Commandments (chapter 20) and the 613 instructions (law) found in the rest of the Torah, as they promised to do, they would have fulfilled their role of priesthood. In obeying God, they would have been teaching the nations by example how to be holy just as they themselves were holy, and bringing the world into the knowledge of the One True God. They would have been a light to the nations. That is what they as the Chosen People were chosen to do. By the way, living holy lives in the presence of God and bringing the world into the knowledge of God is what we are expected to do as Believers in the One God of Israel and His Messiah Yeshua (Jesus). That is the overall mission of a priest in His royal kingdom.
As a result of accepting His sacrifice, Rabbi Shaul (the Apostle Paul) tells us that everything we think, everything we do is now to be in accord with God’s “good, pleasing, and perfect will.” (Romans 12:2) Paul says that in this way, we are “living sacrifices,” in which we continuously offer up to the Lord acts of love and mercy. That is what He has always preferred, anyway: “For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.” (Hosea 6:6)
And that is our privilege as royal priests to perform
Why should priests be judges? The priests were responsible to act on behalf of God; and through their diligent study of the Holy Scriptures, they were expected to acquire wisdom from the Lord. This made them good candidates to administer justice knowledgeably and wisely. Scripture provides guidelines for these judges: They were to love the law, hear cases large and small, show no partiality between rich and poor, take no bribes, and fear no man but fear God and judge on His behalf. (Deuteronomy 1:16–17, 16:19–20; 2 Chronicles 19:6–7; Psalm 119:163–165)
For example, when the Hellenistic (Greek-influenced) Jews and Hebraic Jews were disputing about food rations for the widows, the twelve apostles said to them, “Choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom” to administer this matter in a way that was fair and orderly. (Acts 6:3)
The world is watching how we settle our disputes as Believers. It is a great privilege to be a judge. "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth." (2 Timothy 2:15) In Israel, priests not only studied God's Word, they taught it by reading and interpreting Scripture for the people. This is how the people would know what it means to be a nation of priests to the world. Likewise, Believers are responsible to diligently study the Word through teachers who are filled with the Holy Spirit and have the gift of wisdom ― as opposed to teachers who twist God’s word into their own image. The evidence that the Holy Spirit is in Believers is that they possess the fruit of the spirit: “love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.” (Galatians 5:22–23) While the Law has been a means of administering blessing and curses as well as life and death, living in the Spirit transcends the Law (Torah). This is how Adam and Eve were supposed to live before they disobeyed God and got expelled from the Garden of Eden. God’s original plan before Adam and Eve sinned was a life experienced in perfect love, joy, and peace. We can receive all of this heavenly fruit that only God and His Spirit can produce in us today ― but it takes work on our part. We must study His Word, die to self, repent, and continually seek His Presence. As Believers in Yeshua (Jesus) who is King of the Universe, it is our privilege as His priests to be holy, to teach the Word of God, and judge sin. But most of all, when we spend time in the presence of God and receive His love, then we are able to pour out that love to others. “If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.” (1 Corinthians 13:2) God’s original plan before Adam and Eve sinned was a life experienced in perfect love, joy, and peace. We can receive all of this heavenly fruit that only God and His Spirit can produce in us today ― but it takes work on our part. We must study His Word, die to self, repent, and continually seek His Presence. As Believers in Yeshua (Jesus) who is King of the Universe, it is our privilege as His priests to be holy, to teach the Word of God, and judge sin. But most of all, when we spend time in the presence of God and receive His love, then we are able to pour out that love to others. “If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.” (1 Corinthians 13:2)
End quote" R" God wants us to function as witnesses to others, a light. So ALL people are included. Solomon when to all the world... as a witness. D" You absolute deny the reality of the archonR" Prove to me than the SHEDIM were Created as SHEDIM than Dave. You can't. The only creatures created sinless that became sinning later on are the humans, and the cherubs. Ezekiel 28 tells us. And JOhn writes the shedim sin like humans sin. 1 John 3:8 From the beginning, before humans existed. Gen 6 is not from the beginning. D" You preach two gods and two kingsR" I teach the elohiym power in heaven wrote in the royal torah, thou shalt not bow down to false elohiym powers. Proof false elohiym powers exist, and existed before humans existed. But Dave refuses to agree with the royal decree, written by the finger of God. These false elohiym powers, knowing good and evil, who also sin in order to know good and evil, is the serpent, the chief SHEDIM, who sinned from the beginning. And has free will to sin, to choose to sin, wanting to drink it's own words, rather than the Father's words of living. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Nov 22, 2022 9:11:05 GMT -5
RP" Entropy only came into Adam's world after Adam sinned. - Notice the changes as a result of sinning D"See - there you are - Robert and his Ellen White satanism deny this passage and claim it is proof satan is in control
R" OK show me from Scripture only that GOD includes the "cycle of life" ie, From birth → growth → maturity → death → rebirth and new life.
Rosh Hashanah – From the beginning / from birth Yom Kippur – as we grow and mature – and contemplate our own death – do we need to atone? Sukkot – God does tabernacles with man – twice – tent/temple – Judaism/Christian Purim - salvation is only from the Lord Pesach – Passover, Passover, Passover death Shavuot – the harvest – Pentecost – rebirth and new life
The lesson of Judaism is written into nature Over and over and over the message is repeated everywhere we look – any time we look – on any scale we look
From birth → growth → maturity → death → rebirth and new life. Stars do it Plants do it Animals do it Even the unseen biology all around us do it
It is the message of the ahl/OT and Judaism It is the message of Christianity
From birth → growth → maturity → death →(salvation is only by the Lord+Passover) → rebirth and new life (resurrection + life after death = a New Life)
From birth → growth → maturity → death → (Judaism / Christianity) → rebirth and new life. (Resurrection)
From birth (Gen 1:1-3) → growth → maturity → death → (Judaism / Christianity) → rebirth and new life.(Rev 21)
The lesson of Judaism is written into nature Over and over and over the message is repeated everywhere we look – any time we look – on any scale we look
Psa 19:2 The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky shows His handiwork. Psa 19:3 Day to day they speak, night to night they reveal knowledge. Psa 19:4 There is no speech, no words, where their voice goes unheard.
You can pick a flower in heaven at it will never decay or lose its colur or fade. This is NOT Heaven – are there flowers in heaven? Your heaven is a world of biology – Judeo-Christian heaven is a spiritual realm You have an entirely different GOD than I do, one that seems to naturally enjoy flawed worlds and flawed creation. Correct – we have different Gods
My Judeo-Christian God is the One True Creator - and ALL CREATION TESTIFIES TO THE MAGNIFICANCE OF THE LORD – No matter where, when, and in any scale we look All God’s Plan – all God’s Will – all evidence of the Creator
Neh 9:6 You alone are Adonai.You made the heavens, even the highest heaven with all its array, the earth and everything on it, the seas and everything in them. You give life to them all, and the multitudes of heaven worship You.
Psa 148:1 Halleluyah! Praise Adonai from the heavens! Praise Him in the highest! Psa 148:2 Praise Him all His angels! Praise Him all His armies. Psa 148:3 Praise Him, sun and moon! Praise Him, all stars of light. Psa 148:4 Praise Him, highest heavens, and waters above the heavens. Psa 148:5 Let them praise the Name of Adonai, for He commanded and they were created. Psa 148:6 He set them in place forever and ever. He made a decree that will never pass away. Psa 148:7 Praise Adonai from the earth, sea monsters and all depths, Psa 148:8 fire and hail, snow and vapor, storm wind doing His bidding,
Heb 11:3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen did not come from anything visible.
Rom 1:19 because what can be known about God is plain to them—for God has shown it to them. Rom 1:20 His invisible attributes—His eternal power and His divine nature—have been clearly seen ever since the creation of the world, being understood through the things that have been made. So people are without excuse—
Rev 4:11 “Worthy are You, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, For You created all things, and because of Your will they existed and were created!”
You have an entirely different GOD than I do, one that seems to naturally enjoy flawed worlds and flawed creation. Correct – we have different Gods
My Judeo-Christian God is the One True Creator - and ALL CREATION TESTIFIES TO THE MAGNIFICANCE OF THE LORD – No matter where, when, and in any scale we look All God’s Plan – all God’s Will – all evidence of the Creator
You have a god that tried to make a tov world but was not allowed by your satan god And all creation proves how your satan changed God’s creation
Rom 1:21 for even though they knew God, they did not glorify Him WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR WORLD ? I say God – Robert says satan Correct – we have different Gods
they did not glorify Him or give Him thanks. I asked Robert if he has ever thanked the Lord for his satan -
Instead, their thinking became futile, and their senseless hearts were made dark. Rom 1:22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools.
They become Ken Hamm / Don Patton Creationist that harm the faith Or they become Ellen White SDA that opposes Judeo-Christianity
Rom 1:23 They exchanged the glory of the immortal God for an image in the form of mortal man YES – Robert’s god is anthropomorphized – has the same limits as a man and must obey the 10 Commandments ----------------------------------------
D" YEP – those darn weeds are commanded by God to fill the earth R" You even twist Scripture.... Was a ROSE created by God? – It has thorns and thistles – is it a weed or a flower? YES – plants were created by god
28 Jesus said unto them, An enemy hath done this... Mt 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil;
God is not an enemy, Jesus said An enemy did this. Something wrong with your reading of Scripture. Correct – all you can see is satan and evil
Gen 3:17 Then to the man He said, “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate of the tree which I commanded you, saying, ‘You must not eat of it’: Cursed is the ground because of you—with pain will you eat of it all the days of your life. Gen 3:18 Thorns and thistles will sprout for you. You will eat the plants of the field, Gen 3:19 By the sweat of your brow will you eat food, until you return to the ground, since from it were you taken. For you are dust, and to dust will you return.”
God created all the plants – and is in control of the plants – all God’s Plan – God’s design God placed all this in motion – God did it
D"Either the enemy of man is the World – and the realities of living in a mortal world – The Beast’s domain Or you are teaching that God is the devil R" You can't even read Scripture. BOY what is wrong with you? SInce when is the word "devil", "world". Come on Dave, read the words properly.
Rev 12:9 … the great dragon … the ancient serpent, called the devil and satan, who deceives the whole world. The devil = The Beast = the master of this physical domain / world Cold / heat / hunger / desire / lust / greed – all products of this world
The SHEDIM is a BEING who is spoken by Jesus as an enemy, who made the weeds. YES – the shedim / archon / Jinn / demons / boogie men / satanas / devils – OUR REAL STRUGGLE NO – the shedim / archon did not make anything – they cannot create – no second creator
How are weeds made Joh 1:3 All things were made through Him, and apart from Him nothing was made that has come into being. -----------------------------------------
The ‘sinning angels’ of Jude and 2 Peter are the Gigori (archon – bane elohitm – Nephilim – shedim) of Gen 6 R" SO glad you put inverted commas now, its a theory of yours, Your angels cannot sin, Quote me accurately – or I will not respond – game player
Really Dave. Gen 6 is NOT in the beginning, not even close. It is the beginning of the ‘sinning angels’ of Jude 1:6 + 2 Peter 2:4
The SHEDIM was in the Garden of Eden YES – the beast eas there – the serpent – the devil – the satanas Has nothing to do with the ‘sinning angels’ of Gen 6 --------------------------------
RP" you do not have your shedim as an enemy of God. D" WHO CAN OPPOSE GOD – NO ONE Just because the SHEDIM is an enemy does not mean the SHEDIM can overturn God as supreme ruler, even though the SHEDIM opposes GOD as an enemy. DO EVER TIRE OF PREACHING CONTRADICTIONS
Just because the SHEDIM is an enemy does not mean the SHEDIM can overturn God as supreme ruler, DO EVER TIRE OF PREACHING CONTRADICTIONS Which theology do YOU BELIEVE – because – those of us that read you still cannot tell -----------------------------------------
RP" Show me texts from Jewish Rabbi that speak of the HS walking around as a mother tending to her children (Israel). Dave replies with "3 years ago I forgave you ignorance because I thought it was from a lack of education But you know better now You argue from a position of ignorance and you do it by choice R" I do not see a passage posted, only links to read.
R" I do not see a passage posted, only links to read. Not a single passage posting what I asked for Dave. FUNNY – I counted 74 A 2 way discussion require participation - is this a 2 way discussion You just ask me questions to undermine the Judeo-Christian Faith -----------------------------------
D"REFUSAL TO ANSWER – BECAUSE YOU DENY SCRIPTURE IS TRUTHFUL - YOUR GOD CANNOT KILL or has ever asked man to kill R" Been there done that for you. DENY AWAY to keep Ellen White correct -----------------------------
D"no one here really knows what you stand for – or what you really believe – because it changes as we speak R" No it does not. My belief has not changed, the words do not change meanings either.
R” Just because the SHEDIM is an enemy does not mean the SHEDIM can overturn God as supreme ruler, R" Have you never read the oppose's objective? Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. The opposer wishes to replace the Father as a ruler REPEAT - D"no one here really knows what you stand for – or what you really believe – because it changes as we speak ----------------------
RP" R" OK, and where does man get the MEDIUM from within the MAN? R" You agree with me at a substomic level all life is sustained by GOD, so why do you mock me when I say the HS partners with living things in order to make them living?
The base EM that sustains the ether is not a created thing – it is the Spirit of God Your spirit is created as an independent individual special and unique Bacteria and virus are NOT GOD – they are created as an independent individual special and unique The cows are NOT GOD – they are created as an independent individual special and unique The angels are NOT GOD – they are created as an independent individual special and unique The archon are NOT GOD – they are created as an independent individual special and unique Man is NOT GOD – we are created as an independent individual special and unique --------------------------
D"So you admit it – all the world – all the evidence – all the experts throughout all the generations all have to be wrong for Ellen White to be correct R" NO Dave, some mysteries are best left unsaid. Not everybody has the same level of education. BOY IS THAT OBVIOUSE ----------------------------------
D"Robert’s theology leaves him in uneducated ignorance and denial R" Actually this Messanic message came emailed today I quote" Had God's people obeyed the Ten Commandments (chapter 20) and the 613 instructions (law) found in the rest of the Torah, as they promised to do, they would have fulfilled their role of priesthood. In obeying God, they would have been teaching the nations by example how to be holy just as they themselves were holy, and bringing the world into the knowledge of the One True God. ABSOLUTLY MY TEACHING Easy To demonstrate to the whole world – that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the One True God Jer 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you, and before you were born, I set you apart—I appointed you prophet to the nations.”
They would have been a light to the nations. ABSOLUTLY MY TEACHING To demonstrate to the whole world – that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the One True God Jer 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you, and before you were born, I set you apart—I appointed you prophet to the nations.”
That is what they as the Chosen People were chosen to do. ABSOLUTLY MY TEACHING To demonstrate to the whole world – that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the One True God Jer 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you, and before you were born, I set you apart—I appointed you prophet to the nations.”
By the way, living holy lives in the presence of God and bringing the world into the knowledge of God is what we are expected to do as Believers in the One God of Israel and His Messiah Yeshua (Jesus). ABSOLUTLY MY TEACHING To demonstrate to the whole world – that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the One True God Jer 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you, and before you were born, I set you apart—I appointed you prophet to the nations.”
That is the overall mission of a priest in His royal kingdom. ABSOLUTLY MY TEACHING To demonstrate to the whole world – that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the One True God Jer 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you, and before you were born, I set you apart—I appointed you prophet to the nations.”
As a result of accepting His sacrifice, Rabbi Shaul (the Apostle Paul) tells us that everything we think, everything we do is now to be in accord with God’s “good, pleasing, and perfect will.” (Romans 12:2) Paul says that in this way, we are “living sacrifices,” in which we continuously offer up to the Lord acts of love and mercy. That is what He has always preferred, anyway: ABSOLUTLY MY TEACHING To demonstrate to the whole world – that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the One True God Jer 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you, and before you were born, I set you apart—I appointed you prophet to the nations.”
And that is our privilege as royal priests to perform ABSOLUTLY MY TEACHING To demonstrate to the whole world – that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the One True God Jer 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you, and before you were born, I set you apart—I appointed you prophet to the nations.”
The priests were responsible to act on behalf of God; and through their diligent study of the Holy Scriptures, they were expected to acquire wisdom from the Lord. This made them good candidates to administer justice knowledgeably and wisely. Robert disagrees – he calls Jewish teaching man-made error – called it dribble
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2022 14:12:17 GMT -5
Greetings Dave I note there are some things I don't like about Rabbi Davis and the Messanic teachings of the fallen angels and HaSatan, but overall they follow things pretty much the same as the SDA do. But I get your drift that Satanas is a chief archon. I also not your reluctance to answer a question you cannot answer Whom is the shedim that sins like humans sin in 1 John 3:8. This creature has free will to sin like humans sin, and has been sinning from the beginning. Genesis 6 is not in the beginning. These sinning creatures would be false elohiym powers, as Jeff Benner explains, knowing good and evil. I also note the ten commandments forbids the worship of false elohiym powers. Hence the Shedim that sin, existed when the ten commandments were established, long before Sabbath rests came to be, long before Creation required a Sabbath rest, hence the SHEDIM were sinning long before Sabbath existed, before humans existed. And in order to have Shedim sinning like humans sinning, they are required to obey the ten commandments like any other creature with free will. But you deny this presentation. And you avoid discussing matters that directly impact your view. And this is what I wish to do, to begin changing the views you follow. This Bible verse in 1 John 3:8 is a stumbling block to you, because you cannot answer it, without changing your view of Scripture. I don't mind you supporting your own beliefs, as long as you know that you are not supporting the torah as John writes, Jude writes and Ezekiel adds too as well. This one verse is a key to changing your world view, only if you wish to read the verse correctly in faith under the HS who changes our world view. Otherwise, I am fresh out of ideas talking with you, and I will do some study with Messanic views, etc, and get back to you some time later. PS, you didn't make any comments about my thermal chimmney I made following your advice a long time ago. It's a bit small, but I made it after following your ideas. So you are a good influence after all. Currently I am looking at making sun dried tomatoes. Do you make these, or it there not enough sunshine in your area? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Nov 22, 2022 17:24:25 GMT -5
I get your drift that Satanas is a chief archon. Not my drift – 100% straight up scripture
Rev 12:9 … the great dragon … the ancient serpent, called the devil and satanas (G4567), who deceives the whole world
G4567 - Σατανᾶς - Satanas Of Chaldee origin - the accuser, that is, the devil: - Satan. --------------------------------------
I also not your reluctance to answer a question you cannot answer Whom is the shedim that sins like humans sin in 1 John 3:8.
YOU PREACH A CONTRADICTION Enoch and his Watchers – the bane elohiym of Gen 6 They are BEAST – programmed to – go forth be fruitful and multiply Science calls it INSTINCTIVE – self-preservation and the survival of the species You Rabbi Davis called it a COMPULSION IN YOUTH – it is MACHO – veral – alpha – sexually dominate – the STUD
The BEAST exist in the invisible realm all around us Viruses do what they do – they go forth are fruitful and multiply Bacteria do what they do – they go forth are fruitful and multiply Birds do what they do – they go forth are fruitful and multiply Bees do what they do – they go forth are fruitful and multiply The archon do what they do – they go forth are fruitful and multiply
YES – the BEAST had offspring within its own domain – physical creation =- the earth of Gen 1:1 YES – the BEAST and all the archon have inhabited the earth of Gen 1:1 since Gen 1:2 – Rev 12:1:1-4 YES – the archon / shedim of King Solomon – the Jinn of Islam can appear in mortal form YES – The Book of Jubilees says when in mortal form they can be killed
YES – Gen 6 a group of 200 or so – agreed to – create demi-gods on earth – Nephilim THE CAUSE OF THE FLOOD – THE REASON FOR THE FLOOD
The fathers of the post flood Rephiem – the Sons of Anak – the 7 tribes of Amorite The reason God Commanded a genocide upon them
The post flood ‘other gods’ of the Levant - which are the ‘other gods’ of all pagan and alien religions
IF – you deny the reality of Gen 6 Then – you will not understand much of scripture
Jdg 2:1 … ‘I will never break My covenant with you. Jdg 2:2 Now as for you, you must make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land. You must break down their altars.’ But you have not listened to My voice. What is this you have done? Jdg 2:3 Therefore I also said, ‘I will not drive them out from before you, but they will be thorns in your sides, and their gods will be a snare to you.’” The post flood ‘other gods’ of the Levant - which are the ‘other gods’ of all pagan and alien religions The post flood reptilian gods of India and may backwoods tribes The blood sacrificing ‘other gods’ of the world – found in many cultures The space goods and aliens of the UFO phenomena – intra-dimensional visitors The genetic link between the “entities just outside our field of vision – that are anything but human – and have been manipulating this world from the outside for eons” – and the Priest Kings of old and the 13 Families that rule this world today
This creature has free will to sin like humans sin, and has been sinning from the beginning. Genesis 6 is not in the beginning. The archon of Gen 6 – REPRODUCED OUT OF THEIR OWN KIND IS THE BEGINNING of your 'sinning angels'
These sinning creatures would be false elohiym powers, YES – THE BEAST / archon – are the ‘other gods’ of the Levant and all pagan religions - DUH
I also note the ten commandments forbids the worship of false elohiym powers. YES – and NOT just the archon – a DIRECT worship of Baal is NOT required ANY WORSHIP OF ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE ONE TRUE CREATOR IS WORSHIP OF BAAL (self – world)
Worship of Caesar – who is just a man – is no different that dedication to ANTIFA / BLACK LIVES MATTER / THE ENVIRONMENT / EVOLUTION / SPACE ALIENS – or just admitted atheist
ANY WORSHIP OF ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE ONE TRUE CREATOR IS WORSHIP OF BAAL (self – world)
Mat 6:24 “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stick by one and look down on the other. You cannot serve God and money.”
G3126 - μαμμωνᾶς - mammōnas Of Chaldee origin (confidence, that is, figuratively wealth, personified) -----------------------------
YOU PREACH A CONTRADICTION IF – what happened in Gen 1:2 – Rev 12:1-4 = SIN Then – scripture says all the sinning angels are locked away – and you have no satan
IF – what happened in Gen 1:2 – Rev 12:1-4 = SIN Then – God is wrong – Gen 1:31 it is all tov in His eyes
IF – what happened in Gen 1:2 – Rev 12:1-4 = SIN – and your satan is alive and well Then – God is wrong calling it tov and Jude and Peter lied
If – what happened in Gen 1:2 = DARKNESS (choshek) – IGNORANCE Then – the Beast and the archon have always been here Then – only 200 of them (or so) are THE SINNING ANGELS of Gen 6 All scripture falls into place – ‘other gods’, Baal, satanas, and devils are exposed for who they are -------------------------
And in order to have Shedim sinning like humans sinning, they are required to obey the ten commandments like any other creature with free will. But you deny this presentation.
Your teaching that animals must all obey the 10 commandments is ridicules nonsense Only 2 commandment give to the Beast – 1- go forth be fruitful and multiply (yester ra) 2- reproduce after your own kind -----------------------------
And you avoid discussing matters that directly impact your view. BRING IT ON SATAN BOY
And this is what I wish to do, to begin changing the views you follow.
Otherwise, I am fresh out of ideas talking with you, Or you could answer questions - there is a long list of them here - left dangeling in the wind It is easier to cut and run - than it is to defend Ellen White or satan Your only objective here was to oppose mainstream Judeo-Christianity and promote your two god system that elevates an angel to godhood - while INSULTING THE ONE TRUE CREATOR
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2022 14:06:37 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
Not a single attempt to answer my question.
You agree the beast is a false elohiym power, called satanas and a devil /satan.
But you cannot answer John's question
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil;
for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
John says the shedim sin like humans sin.
So they have free will to sin, just as humans also have free will. So they have to obey the royal torah as humans have to. The royal torah forbids the worship of false elohiym powers.
Who are these shedim than Dave? You cannot answer, nor does Rabbi Davis explain either, they did not originate in Geb 6, choosing to sin over women.
John says they sinned from the beginning, before humans existed.
Suddenly all the scripture falls into place? Not in your case. You ignore John and you ignore Ezekiel.
You need to admit seriously you cannot answer this question.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Nov 23, 2022 15:24:06 GMT -5
You agree the beast is a false elohiym power, called satanas and a devil /satan. ABSOLUTELY CORRECT The Beast that just appeared during creation – ready to devour creation = Entropy
Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
But you cannot answer John's question 1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. Not a single attempt to answer my question.
I have answered you the same answer over and over – you just refuse to hear it
Opening his eyes, he saw a vast quantity of matter without limit; and he became arrogant, saying, "It is I who am God, and there is none other apart from me". When he said this, he sinned against the entirety. And a voice came forth from above the realm of absolute power, saying, "You are mistaken, Samael" – which is, 'god of the blind'.
Sinned against the entirety of creation – dirt – rocks – trees – stars = Entropy This is too simple of a concept for Robert to grasp = because it does not need his satan god of evil – in fact it is not evil at all – simply entropy – movement away from God – DARKNESS / IGNORANCE
Gen 1:2 Now the earth was chaos and waste, darkness was on the surface of the deep, and the Ruach Elohim was hovering upon the surface of the water.
Gen 1:3 Then God said, “Let there be light!” and there was light. Rev 12:5 And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with an iron rod. And her child was snatched away to God and to His throne.
Gen 1:4 God saw that the light was good. So God distinguished the light from the darkness. Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down—the ancient serpent, called the devil and satan, who deceives the whole world.
Gen 6 = the ‘sinning angels’ of Jude and 2 Peter – all locked away from man But – they left behind the Rephiem – the other gods of the Levant – the demons of our world
John says the shedim sin like humans sin. NO IT DOES NOT – you are a backward simile abuser
1Jn 3:8 The one who practices sin is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. 1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. 1Jn 3:8 he who is doing the sin, of the devil he is, because from the beginning the devil doth sin;
John says the shedim sin like humans sin. NO IT DOES NOT – you are a backward simile abuser
It says that a man that sins – is like the devil IGNORANT – of the consequences of their actions – arrogantly thinking they can evade punishment
Ezk 28 says the cherub is a sinning angel NO IT DOES NOT - it sayas that the King of Tyre was like a cherub (guarduian / protector of his people with outstretched wings)
You need to admit seriously you cannot answer this question. You need to admit – that only by playing your simile games backwards is your satan a god Twist – misrepresent – or lie – whatever it takes to keep Ellen White’s sananology valid
Otherwise, I am fresh out of ideas talking with you, Or you could answer questions - there is a long list of them here - left dangeling in the wind It is easier to cut and run - than it is to defend Ellen White or satan Your only objective here was to oppose mainstream Judeo-Christianity and promote your two god system that elevates an angel to godhood - while INSULTING THE ONE TRUE CREATOR
I will do some study with Messanic views, etc, and get back to you some time later. COOL – make sure you are up front with them and admit your two god theology from the beginning and be honest about your objective And this is what I wish to do, to begin changing the views you follow
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2022 15:17:28 GMT -5
Shalom Sabbath Dave D" This is too simple of a concept for Robert to grasp = because it does not need his satan god of evil – in fact it is not evil at all – simply entropy – movement away from God – DARKNESS / IGNORANCE R" So the shedim (archon) here are ignorant, they do no real evil, and they choose not to sin, they have no free will to choose to sin in the first place. What a "arum" way you twist Scripture to change the verses meanings.
Rob says" John says the shedim sin like humans sin.
Dave disagrees "NO IT DOES NOT – you are a backward simile abuser
D"It says that a man that sins – is like the devil IGNORANT – of the consequences of their actions – arrogantly thinking they can evade punishment Rob says " Ezk 28 says the cherub is a sinning angel
Dave disagrees and says "NO IT DOES NOT - it sayas that the King of Tyre was like a cherub (guarduian / protector of his people with outstretched wings) Rob asks" You need to admit seriously you cannot answer this question.
Dave replies" You need to admit – that only by playing your simile games backwards is your satan a god Twist – misrepresent – or lie – whatever it takes to keep Ellen White’s satanology valid
R" When we sin Dave, we sin intentionally because of various reasons, circumstances and problems make some things hard, but our decisions to sin or not sin, are based on the mind that reasons. Hence humans have free will to sin or not sin. I am shocked by your answers, "so the devil sinneth from the beginning" does not sin according to you, they do things out of ignorance? Nothing ignorant about the shedim in the garden talking to Eve, the "Arum" creature was careful to make her sin. Did the Arum Shedim speak nice words to uplift Eve in grace towards God? No, He spoke twisting words of truth, in order to make her sin. Doing this is a sin in itself, making a false report about God, lying and cheating.
I see nothing ignorant here in the way the shedim sinned in the garden in order to get Eve to sin.
Jesus described the shedim as a murder and a father of lies. Both of these are sinning traits, yet Dave does not even consider lying a sin. What murder acts did the shedim do to Eve? He wounded her causing her to sin.
You do not even consider the shedim sinned in tempting Eve to sin, do you? This creature was just ignorantly playing with truth to make Eve sin, was not the creatures problem or care according to you, but I see it was irresponsible and a sin to lead somebody else to sin. I also not see any need for GOD to have created creatures who tempt other creatures to sin, what an absurd idea of yours. God does things functionally, and there is nothing loving about tempting sinless creatures to sin. Again your Gnostic writings is twisting you to deny Scripture as it reads plainly, the "shedim sinneth from the beginning" but Dave says no, the shedim do not sin, they do thing ignorantly because they were designed that way.
The Shedim was not in Eden to make sinless creatures sin. To tempt sinless humans to sin. What an absurd idea of yours, this makes GOD guilty for creating RA in a sinless world. But the RA creatures are either already in the world before GOD creates Creation over it, or they were created that way for Creation. Your Gnostic teachings teach GOD created RA creatures on purpose to tempt sinless humans to sin, intentionally designed that way. I disagree with this, Scripture says the shedim sinneth from the beginning. So the Shedim sinned long before humans existed and the Creation for humans, So the SHEDIM must have sinned in another CREATION that were created as sinless creatures in.
But Dave denies this idea, you only have one Creation, whereas I have many. You use of the term "beginning" only goes back to Gen 6 or Gen 1, but I see the term going back before any Creation for earth for humans, long before that, before time was invented for planet earth.
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Gnostic teaches the angels here were created first in ONE creation and than later saw the creation the earth coming into being? Is there time or details for this view? Gen 1 :1 and Gen1:2 begins with creation over a formless rock, frozen fluid, that is made into dry land.
No mention of angels created before this event? Re 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
One thing from this passage, the SHADDAY is about to give birth to humans in their creation, but the DRAGON who is an enemy is already to devour this sinless creature. It also describes 1/3 of angels having fallen and sinned along with the other sinning angels. Were cast to earth. Dave denies the shedim with free will sin intentionally. So the devour the child as soon as it is born, is irgnorance, is it Dave?
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
And this war was just a 6 second bustle according to Dave, not a war over sinning angels at all. Angels cannot sin according to Dave. Ezekiel 28 "cherub chata", this does not mean the angels can sin, according to Dave, only that King Tyre was a protective human, who sin, and is not a simile of an angel who was once protective over God, but chooses to sin.
Really Dave, you twist and misrepresent Scripture. So this war was not a war either. God is fully in control of all things, including creating creatures, and angels do not have free will to sin anyway, even though they have intelligence, and some "sinned" in Gen 6 over women.
Re 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Wow thanks LORD.
OK Dave, why does the SHEDIM persecute the SHADDAY which brought forth the man child HUMAN? Nothing here about SHEDIM being friendly to GOD?
More like enemy to GOD?
Is this another twisting you have to post Dave, and deny?
Re 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
The "woman" is a simile of "church" and few religions see both symbols of the HS as a houser of church and the HS as the creative carer of humans in a womb of compassion, that the SHEDIM wished to devour from the beginning. Na 1:9 ¶ What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.
This verse says affliction happens ONCE, in the TIME we have now. Was affliction ONCE created by GOD intentionally to make free will humans, remain loyal for eternity? How is having RA creatures making affliction? Makes no sense. The sinless creatures that chooses to sin, is the only time affliction happens, because SINNING is allowed to happen only ONCE. This implies cherubs were free will and some decided to SIN. Just another verse you deny.
Your Gnostic teachings has no provision for affliction, or for wars in heaven or on earth, or even for SIN. I pity the huge number of verses you ignore.
So you agree the SHEDIM as false elohiym powers. How is this possible? How can they sin for know both good and evil, if they do not have free will to make choices to sin or not sin, to obey law or disobey law? Really Dave, think your logic through.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Nov 27, 2022 7:03:18 GMT -5
R Otherwise, I am fresh out of ideas talking with you,D Or you could answer questions - there is a long list of them here - left dangling in the wind It is easier to cut and run - than it is to defend Ellen White or satan REPEAT - Your only objective here was/is to oppose mainstream Judeo-Christianity and promote your two god system that elevates an angel to godhood - while INSULTING THE ONE TRUE CREATORI will do some study with Messanic views, etc, and get back to you some time later.COOL – make sure you are up front with them and admit your two god theology from the beginning and be honest about your objective And this is what I wish to do, to begin changing the views you followREPEAT - Your only objective here was/is to oppose mainstream Judeo-Christianity and promote your two god system that elevates an angel to godhood - while INSULTING THE ONE TRUE CREATORAND STILL – YOU MAKE A STAND FOR YOUR SATAN GOD----------------------------- Rob says" John says the shedim sin like humans sin. Dave disagrees "NO IT DOES NOT – you are a backward simile abuser 1Jn 3:8 he who is doing the sin, of the devil he is, … 1Jn 3:8 The one who practices sin is of the devil, … 1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; Correct - It says that a man that sins – is like the devil IT DOES NOT SAY the devil sins like man Rob says " Ezk 28 says the cherub is a sinning angel Dave disagrees and says "NO IT DOES NOT - it says that the King of Tyre was like a cherub (guarduian / protector of his people with outstretched wings) Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Jesus Christ – have pity on the King of TyreEze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Man – was in the garden – and friends with God Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. The King of Tyre is like a cherub – the protecting guardian of his people – with outstretched wings covering hid kingdomEze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.. Man – was perfect before Eve The Beast appeared ready to devour – fully formed ready to do his job The Beast was never perfect Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thou has sinned – ‘O covering cherub’ (KING OF TYRE) God – put an end to it – no more King of TyreEze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. When was your satan ever laid before man as a sinner - exposed for who he isEze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. When was your satan reduced to ashes on earth – in the sight of menEze 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more. Eze 28:19 …: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more. Eze 28:19 …. You have become a horror and will be nothing forever.’” Is your satan god – gone and forgotten?Dave replies" You need to admit – that only by playing your simile games backwards is your satan a god Twist – misrepresent – or lie – whatever it takes to keep Ellen White’s satanology valid ----------- R" When we sin Dave, we sin intentionally … Hence humans have free will to sin or not sin. CORRECT – man is the creature that can chooseI am shocked by your answers, "so the devil sinneth from the beginning" does not sin according to you, they do things out of ignorance? Opening his eyes, he saw a vast quantity of matter without limit; and he became arrogant, saying, "It is I who am God, and there is none other apart from me". When he said this, he sinned against the entirety. And a voice came forth from above the realm of absolute power, saying, "You are mistaken, Samael" – which is, 'god of the blind'. You either know (recognize) the truth – know God – you are illuminated by the truth – in the light Or – you don’t know the Lord – you don’t know the truth – you are ignorant of the truth – you are in darkness – you are blind
TOV – according to your Jeff Brenner – movement toward God RA – according to your Jeff Brenner – movement away from GodWhen he said this, he sinned against the entirety. Sinned against – matter – dirt – rocks – air – planets – stars – galaxies = ENTROPY D" This is too simple of a concept for Robert to grasp = because it does not need his satan god of evil – in fact it is not evil at all – simply entropy – movement away from God – DARKNESS / IGNORANCE R" So the shedim (archon) here are ignorant, they do no real evil, and they choose not to sin, they have no free will to choose to sin in the first place. YES – Ignorant and arrogant think they are the masters of this world – thinking they are in control THE ARCHON KNOW THEIR FATE – Mat 8:29How many men believe that evolution replaced God = Ignorant and arrogant How many men claimed to be god = Ignorant and arrogant How many men claim there is NO god = Ignorant and arrogant
Nothing ignorant about the shedim in the garden talking to Eve, the "Arum" creature was careful to make her sin. YES – you need someone else to blame – your satan FORCED Eve – RULED Eve – Eve was a victim TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS ROBERT – your choice are all on youDid the Arum Shedim speak nice words to uplift Eve in grace towards God? No, He spoke twisting words of truth, in order to make her sin. YES – you need someone else to blame – your satan FORCED Eve – RULED Eve – Eve was a victim TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS ROBERT – your choice are all on youDoing this is a sin in itself, making a false report about God, lying and cheating. The only way the serpent lied – is if the promise of eternal life is a lie Why do you deny the promise of eternal life – why do you deny LIFE LIVES------------------------- Jesus described the shedim as a murder and a father of lies. Both of these are sinning traits, yet Dave does not even consider lying a sin. What murder acts did the shedim do to Eve? He wounded her causing her to sin. 1- Catholic theology 2- STOP BLAMING another for you own choices (the devil made her do it) 3- murder and lie are products of ENTROPYWhen a bird eats a mosquito – the bird murders the insect – why do you consider all nature sinful?When a fish eats another fish – one fish murders another – why do you consider all nature sinful?When sharks clean the ocean od the weak – why do you consider all nature sinful?When bacteria infect a body - to go forth be fruitful and multiply – why do you consider all nature sinful?You do not even consider the shedim sinned in tempting Eve to sin, do you? This creature was just ignorantly playing with truth to make Eve sin, was not the creatures problem or care according to you, The serpent does what the serpent does – make the WORLD look good – promote world
They are a distractionMoreover, they threw mankind into great distraction and into a life of toil, so that their mankind might be occupied by worldly affairs, and might not have the opportunity of being devoted to the holy spirit.Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, = (yester ra - yummy)and that it was a delight to the eyes, = (yester ra - yummy)and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, = (yester ra - yummy)she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat; = (yester ra - yummy) – EVE DID IT – not your satanand she gave also unto her husband with her, and he did eat. = (yester ra - yummy) – EVE DID IT – not your satanI know that Ellen White teaches that your satan picked the fruit and handed it to Eve But your Ellen White contradicts scripture – EVE DID IT – not your satan------------------------ I also not see any need for GOD to have created creatures who tempt other creatures to sin, what an absurd idea of yours. God does things functionally, and there is nothing loving about tempting sinless creatures to sin. Proof you have an unusual view of the ahl/OT – ahl/NT because everyone else believes that GOD TEST MANJer 17:9 “The heart is deceitful above all things, and incurable—who can know it? Jer 17:10 I Adonai search the heart, I try the mind, to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds. Deu 8:2 … in order to humble you, to test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His mitzvot or not. Ecc 3:17 I said in my heart: “The righteous and the wicked, God will judge. For there is a time for every activity and for every deed.” Ecc 3:18 I also said in my heart, “As for the sons of man, God tests them so that they may see that they are but animals.” Jas 1:2 Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, Jas 1:3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. Jas 1:4 And let endurance have its perfect work, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. I also not see any need for GOD to have created creatures who tempt other creatures to sin, what an absurd idea of yours. God does things functionally, and there is nothing loving about tempting sinless creatures to sin. WHO CARES WHAT YOU TEACH – SCRIPTURE SAYS GOD TEST MAN Why must you deny scripture – both Old and New – to defend your Ellen White satanology ----------------------------- The Shedim was not in Eden to make sinless creatures sin. To tempt sinless humans to sin. DUH - The serpent was there to make the WORLD look good – desirable – yummy – more desirable that obedience to God What an absurd idea of yours, this makes GOD guilty for creating RA in a sinless world. Isa 45:5 I am Adonai—there is no other. Besides Me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not known Me, Isa 45:6 so they may know, from the rising to the setting of the sun, that there is no one besides Me. I am Adonai—there is no other. Isa 45:7 I form light and create darkness. I make shalom and create calamity. I, Adonai, do all these things. Isa 45:8 “Rain down, O heavens, from above, and let the clouds pour down justice. Let the earth open up, let salvation sprout, and righteousness spring up with it. I, Adonai, have created it.” 1- God did create the RA – there is no other creator 2- without ra – nature is not in balance and would cease to function Rom 1:19 + Psa 19:2 is evidence of God’s finely tuned creation NOT satan’s handiwork as you and Ellen White teachBut the RA creatures are either already in the world before GOD creates Creation over it, or they were created that way for Creation. Religious babble – NOTHING EXISTED BEFOR GEN 1:1-------------------- But Dave denies this idea, you only have one Creation, whereas I have many. YES – JUDEO-CHRISTIANITY HAS ONLY ONE CREATION AND ONE CREATORYou use of the term "beginning" only goes back to Gen 6 or Gen 1, but I see the term going back before any Creation for earth for humans, long before that, before time was invented for planet earth. STUPID WORD GAME – PLAY AWAYThe beginning of Australia was 1788 The beginning of America was 1776 The beginning of the space race was 1958 -------------------------------------- Dave denies the shedim with free will sin intentionally. CORRECT – angels and archon are not the same as man – and man is the creature that can choose between God and World The ‘sinning angels’ of Jude and 2 Peter = the bane elohiym of Gen 6So the devour the child as soon as it is born, is irgnorance, is it Dave? YEP - ENTROPY – ra – movement away from God The child of the womb of creation = all creationAngels cannot sin according to Dave. CORRECT created to serve and praise Archon are created to consume and devour Man is the creature that can choose between God and WORLD
Ezekiel 28 "cherub chata", this does not mean the angels can sin, according to Dave, only that King Tyre was a protective human, who sin, Correct – the King of Tyre is like a cherub – covering his kingdom with protectionand is not a simile of an angel who was once protective over God, but chooses to sin. Correct – the King of Tyre is like a cherub – covering his kingdom with protection NEVER DOES THE SIMILE COME ALIVE AS A NEW AND DIFFERENT BEING WITH ITS OWN THEOLOGY------------------------- Re 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. Wow thanks LORD. YEP - all God’s Plan – all God Will Gen 3:15 I will put animosity between you and the woman—between your seed and her seed. He will crush your head, and you will crush his heel.” 100% God did it – all God’s Plan – all God’s WillYou can MOCK the Lord if you want to - Wow thanks LORD.But is does not change the facts - 100% God did it – all God’s Plan – all God’s Will----------------------- OK Dave, why does the SHEDIM persecute the SHADDAY which brought forth the man child HUMAN? Nothing here about SHEDIM being friendly to GOD? CORRECT – absolute NOT consistent with your Ezk 28 perfect is all his waysMore like enemy to GOD? Why is it a sin to obey GodGod sent satan after Job - Why is it a sin to obey God God sent satan to force David to take a census - Why is it a sin to obey God God established the enmity between man and archon - Why is it a sin to obey God God sent the destroying angel to kill all the first born of Egypt - Why is it a sin to obey God God sent the evil spirit upon Saul - Why is it a sin to obey God More like enemy to GOD? NO - An enemy of creation – entropy - used by God--------------------------- Is this another twisting you have to post Dave, and deny? Re 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. The "woman" is a simile of "church" The woman is also a simile of creation The woman is also the Holy Spirit--------------------------------- Your Gnostic teachings has no provision for affliction, or for wars in heaven or on earth, or even for SIN.IF YOU DO NOT STOP MISSREPRESENTING ME – I will begin deleting your postמות תמות - mûth (present infinity) + mûth (future perfect imperative) But – GOD IS FAIR 2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, so that each one may receive what is due for the things he did while in the body—whether good or bad. Gen 2:17 But of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil you must not eat. For when you eat from it, you most assuredly will die!” This is NOT a lie – but it does not include the promise of salvationGen 3:4 The serpent said to the woman, “You most assuredly won’t die! This is also NOT a lie – because God will / does introduce salvationGen 3:15 I will put animosity between you and the woman—between your seed and her seed. He will crush your head, and you will crush his heel.” Gen 3:15 is a curse and a blessing – God did it – God’s Plan – God’s WillF irst Book of Adam and Eve (100BC-100AD – CONTECT of Jesus Christ)24:4 Then came the Word of God to Adam, and said unto him, "O Adam, as thou hast shed thy blood, so will I shed My own blood when I become flesh of thy seed; and as thou didst die, O Adam, so also will I die. And as thou didst build an altar, so also will I make for thee an altar on the earth; and as thou didst offer thy blood upon it, so also will I offer My blood upon an altar on the earth. 5 "And as thou didst sue for forgiveness through that blood, so also will I make My blood forgiveness of sins, and blot out transgressions in it. 6 "And now, behold, I have accepted thy offering, O Adam, but the days of the covenant, wherein I have bound thee, are not fulfilled. When they are fulfilled, then will I bring thee back into the garden.Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. מות תמות - mûth (present infinity) + mûth (future perfect imperative) But – GOD IS FAIR 2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, so that each one may receive what is due for the things he did while in the body—whether good or bad.
1- Divine pardon 2- Proportional Punishment 3- chance at a do-over - reincarnation 4- or death of spirit in the Lake of Fire--------------------- YES ROBERT WE DISSAGREE – WE do not pray to the same GodI have only One True Creator who is absolute sovereign This is His creation and it is exactly as He knew it would be – because He created it God is in control – all God’s Plan – all God’s Will – and all creation testifies to God 100% Jewish in origin You have two gods at war in heaven over the god’s right / or ability to rule his own creation100% Roman Catholic doctrineYES – WE ALL UNDERSTAND YOU CONSIDER SATAN A GODJews, Christians, and Gnostic DO NOT – the Beast / devils are just created obstacles of this WORLD Gnostic Christians say – There is Only One True God - This is His creation and it is exactly as He knew it would be – because He created it - God is in control – all God’s Plan – all God’s Will – and all creation testifies to God 100% Jewish in origin ------------------------ And before anything came into being, it was the Father alone who existed, before the worlds that are in the heavens appeared, or the world that is on the earth, or principality, or authority, or the powers. [...] appear [...] and [...] And nothing came into being without his wish.
He, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear, and make all those who contend leave behind the things that had come into being, and despise them with a lofty, incomprehensible knowledge, and flee to the one who exists.
And (as for) those who contend with us, being adversaries who contend against us, we are to be victorious over their ignorance through our knowledge, since we have already known the Inscrutable One from whom we have come forth. We have nothing in this world, lest the authority of the world that has come into being should detain us in the world-------------------------------- ANSWER QUESTIONS SATAN BOYRom 1:19 because what can be known about God is plain to them—for God has shown it to them. Rom 1:20 His invisible attributes—His eternal power and His divine nature—have been clearly seen ever since the creation of the world, being understood through the things that have been made. So people are without excuse— Rom 1:21 for even though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or give Him thanks. Instead, their thinking became futile, and their senseless hearts were made dark. Rom 1:22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools. Rom 1:23 They exchanged the glory of the immortal God for an image in the form of mortal man and birds and four-footed beasts and creeping things. Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them over in the evil desires of their hearts to impurity, to dishonor their bodies with one another. Rom 1:25 They traded the truth of God for a lie and worshiped and served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. You teach God creation was tov – until Gen 3 – then all of God’s tov creation changed You teach all creation is now flawed and this passage is proof of how satan changed God tov creation You teach that creation is proof of your satan’s handiworkYou deny that Jesus Christ was God incarnate – not possible you say – Jesus was just biology This passage says – God hands them over to homosexuality Catholics teach that homosexuality is the work of the devil Please explain why Psa 19:2 + Rom 1:19 prove a flawed world witnessing to your satan as godANSWER QUESTIONS SATAN BOYYou deny that Jesus Christ was God incarnate – not possible you say – Jesus was just biologyWhy do you deny that God is Spirit Why do you deny that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God Why do you deny that man has a spirit / soul If the spirit of man is just the HS – why is your HS evil spiritsSo you teach – Rom 1:19 and Psa 1:2 are proof that your satan is god And that the HS are the evil spirits of this worldWhen Jesus Christ died upon the cross – he had no Spirit that left His body – no spirit to be poured out / released / let go – to preach to other spirits of dead men of long ago Why do you deny the spirit?ANSWER QUESTIONS SATAN BOYWhy does Ellen White use Islamic math to predict the coming of the Islamic Mahdi? When this advent occurs – who will it be Christ or the Islamic Messiah? If Ellen White and Islam are in such close agreement – why won’t you speak to Islam? IS THIS WHY YOU DENY THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUE GOD God of the Jews – vrs – Allah and Islam NO wonder you deny 1948 Israel and the rest of prophesy about the Middle East NO wonder you pretend Islam doesn’t exist and has no place in prophesy No wonder you want to deny all the ‘other gods’ of the Levant as myth ANSWER QUESTIONS SATAN BOYWhy won't you answer questions REPEAT - Your only objective here was/is to oppose mainstream Judeo-Christianity and promote your two god system that elevates an angel to godhood - while INSULTING THE ONE TRUE CREATORIT IS NOT ENDEARING
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2022 16:57:00 GMT -5
Dave posts " R Otherwise, I am fresh out of ideas talking with you, D Or you could answer questions - there is a long list of them here - left dangling in the wind It is easier to cut and run - than it is to defend Ellen White or satan REPEAT - Your only objective here was/is to oppose mainstream Judeo-Christianity and promote your two god system that elevates an angel to godhood - while INSULTING THE ONE TRUE CREATORR" I am fresh out of ideas, getting you to answer the one question you will not answer, or won't answer : who is the shedim that sin like humans sin from the beginning. Your last post you deny that the shedim even sin. Your last post you even deny that only humans sin, but John says the shedim sin from the beginning. Ex 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. When did this law exist? (1) Only when man existed? Re 12:7, 8 and 9 speak of a war in heaven, and banishment to earth, long before humans existed. (2) So who are there false elohiym powers in this law? Dave agrees the shedim are false elohiym powers. And they existed long before humans existed. OK, who are these shedim and what is their origin? ---------------Rob researches into Jewish traditions about the origins of the SHEDIM-------------------------- According to one legend, the shedim are descendants of serpents, or of demons in the form of serpents, alluding to the serpent in Eden as related in Genesis.[citation needed] According to one common view, they are the offspring of Lilith,[14] from her union with Adam or other men. Another legend said that God created them on the sixth day, he had started making their bodies but did not complete their creation because he was resting during the Sabbath.[15] Even after the Sabbath, he left them how they were to show that when the Sabbath comes, all work must be viewed as complete.[16] Therefore, the shedim have souls like that of humans, but without a body.[17] The Talmud describes the shedim as possessing some traits of angels, and some traits of humans:
In three ways they are like ministering angels: They have wings like ministering angels; and they fly from one end of the world to the other like ministering angels; and they know what will be in the future like ministering angels. And in three ways they are similar to humans: They eat and drink like humans; they multiply like humans; and they die like humans.
— Babylonian Talmud Hagigah 16a[20] ------------------------------------------- www.rabbinorbert.com/2014/11/of-shedim-and-mazikimptuh-ptuh-ptuh.html
R" Interesting dribble Of Shedim and Mazikim,ptuh, ptuh, ptuh. Of Shedim and Mazikim,ptuh, ptuh, ptuh.
At Halloween time, we Rabbis tend to preach against commemorating what is a remnant of an ancient pagan celebration. But please allow me to use this as an excuse for one of my favorite topics which is Jewish magic and superstition. Now we all know the Jews are highly rational, highly reasonable individuals, adherents of a religion of reason and rationalism. But there is always “on the other hand.” In every major phase of Jewish history, there has been what we could call an official Judaism. There is for example the Judaism as expressed in the Bible which very clearly rejects any kind of demons, any kind myth any kind of magic. You look at the story of the patriarchs and with Abraham and Isaac; there is not one single magic trick mentioned, not one incantation. Jacob, it is true has his fight with what he thinks is a demon but the demon has been transformed into an angelic messenger. The Egyptians have their magicians and the Babylonians too, but what about ancient Israel? As the pagan necromancer, Balaam, himself admits,” There is no magic in Israel”! We outlaw and forbid it. The Bible is, in essence, on the warpath against magic and magical, fantastical thinking.
The Judaism as expressed in the Mishna is in the same vein- it rejects all mystical speculation. “Whoever asks, ‘what is above, what is below, what before, what after--it were better he never were born! ( Mishnah Hagiga 2). That pretty much shuts down any discussion of afterworld daemonic realms. The Judaism of the philosophers like Maimonides or Saadia Gaon held no truck for anything irrational.In the same vein, when we approach the modern era, the great Jewish thinkers, from Reform to Orthodox, slammed the door shut on any discussion of anything other than the religion of “Pure Reason”. Nevertheless in each and every age, there was always an intriguing and interesting very colorful underground of Jewish magic and superstition, although it must be clear, at heart very benign and well intending. There is no playing the devil and no black magic in Jewish sources. Probably some of the most intriguing of stories go back to the time of the Mishna and Talmud some 1500 to 2000 years ago. First of all, the early rabbis want to distinguish between true magic and fraud. It is said that Rabbi Akiba and Rabbi Eliezer had a favorite trick called “the magic cucumbers. “ It is said that Rabbi Akiba asked Rabbi Eliezer “teach me how you plant the cucumbers” and so he said a word and the whole field was filled with cucumbers. Rabbi Akiba continued, “Now show me how you get rid of the cucumbers.” and he said another word and they disappeared. Their colleagues then asked the question,” Since magic is so completely forbidden, how was he able to do this ? To which, the answer is, in order to fight magic you have to know magic .You have to know your enemy in order to your enemy.”
The Rabbis, in general, tried to discount miracles and the miraculous. They tried to explain away miracles as events created by God at the beginning of the universe; otherwise would be to admit that God made a mistake in creation if he needed to undo his own laws of physics. And then… There is the story of the daughters of Rabbi Nachman who could put their hands in boiling water without being scalded. How could that be? Because of their righteousness. There is also the realm of the Mazikim. Now some of you familiar with modern Hebrew and Yiddish know that a Mazik is often use to refer to a mischievous child. That is not the real meaning though of Mazik, which means a destroyer, of the daemonic kind. A good Jew would never enter a ruined building because of the Mazikiim inside. It may also be good practical sense because it’s it if it’s a ruined building, it could collapse. Kin to the Mazik was the Shed, the demon. The king of all the Shedim was Ashmodai, or in English, Asmodaeus. Now it is said of Ashmodai that he was not intentionally malicious; he was just drunk, mischievous and licentious. He was a hobgoblin to wise King Solomon and legends abound of him playing pranks on King Solomon, usurping the throne of Solomon, kicking Solomon out, pretending to be Solomon on throne while King Solomon had to spend aggravating time trying to get back to his throne. It is said that Ashmodai has a host of followers who can be seen.
Said Rabbi Huna,” they all around us, 1000 to the left, 10,000 to the right. Said Rava.” When you are crowded sitting in the Academy but the room doesn’t look full is because of the Mazikim. If your clothes get worn out before their time is because of the Mazikim. If you wish to know where they are, sprinkle flour around your bed at night and in the morning you’ll see tracks like chicken feet. If you wish to see one, take the afterbirth of a black cat, daughter of a black cat, the firstborn daughter. Burn it to ashes and then rub it on your eyes; you will then see the Mazikim! ( Berakhot 6a) .
R" Nothing about origin, =================================== www.myjewishlearning.com/article/demons-dybbuks-ghosts-golems/R" more weird stuff The mythic structure of the Kabbalah provided many colorful answers to that question: demons and dybbuks, golems, and ghosts are all the results of misspent life energy. But the Kabbalah does not develop its ideas out of nowhere; they are part of a long history of Jewish speculation about shedim (demons, also a word used to refer to foreign gods) and demonic personalities such as Lilith.
As compared with other ancient Near Eastern texts, in which demons play a central role, the Bible is nearly silent about the existence of supernatural beings. But not the Talmud. The Talmud has a rich, though vague, demonology. Houses of study are described as being filled with demons when sexual energy is not properly channeled. Great rabbis are able to perceive demons sitting on the right and left hands of every person. They are able to harness the divine creative energies to create animals which can then be consumed for food. And, in the talmudic world, spirits are everywhere: They haunt dark places, homes, even the crumbs left on the dinner table. For example, consider the omnipresence and omnimalevolence of demons described in theTalmud in Berakhot 6a:
“It has been taught: Abba Benjamin says, If the eye had the power to see them, no creature could endure the demons. Abaye says: They are more numerous than we are and they surround us like the ridge around a field. R. Huna says: Every one among us has a thousand on his left hand and ten thousand on his right hand. Raba says: The crushing of the crowd in the Kallah [yearly public] lectures comes from them. Fatigue in the knees comes from them. The wearing out of the clothes of the scholars is due to their rubbing against them. The bruising of the feet comes from them.”
Rarely does the talmudic literature go into detail about exactly how demons and magical creatures come into being, or whether they are really independent beings “out there,” or merely psychological realities. If the latter, of course, then we today can perhaps understand this foreign-sounding discourse–after all, who among us has not been plagued by “demons” in their work or sexual life? As in the source above,”demons” (mazikim, a word which might be better translated “harmful beings”) could be seen as anything that causes decay, pain, and the depletion of life-energy.
Unlike the Talmud, kabbalistic demonology is more detailed. Some demons are formed whenever a man improperly spills his seed–a sin considered so heinous by the Kabbalah because it subverts the creative process. Other demons are, as in the Christian myth, rebellious angels, or in the case of Lilith, primordial humans who disobeyed the divine plan. In all cases, they are instances of life-energy gone awry. In the proper functioning of the cosmos, energy flows like a cycle: down from heaven, then back up in the form of proper ritual action. But when the energy is misappropriated, as in masturbation or rebellion, its intense power falls into the realm of shadow.
R" so self abuse - masturbation - makes demons? --------------------------------- www.mesora.org/shadim.htmlR" nice to see it spelt correctly Shadim (demons)
Are they real? If so, what are they?
RABBI MOSHE BEN-CHAIM
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Compared to the thousands of ideas in the Babylonian Talmud, there are relatively few instances of the term “shadim,” usually translated as “demons.” Regardless of its infrequence, the concept deserves elucidation. When the Rabbis discuss unusual phenomena, one must be extra cautious to maintain rationality and refrain from a flight of fantasy.
If we are in a remote rural area, in a pit, on a mountain top, or if it is at night…the Rabbis tell us not to give greetings to “others,” lest he be a “shade.” Additionally, a Talmudic portion (Gittin 66a) states that if one hears a voice calling from a pit, (telling anyone who hears) to divorce his wife, we listen to him. The gemara asks, "Perhaps it is a shade?" [And we should ignore it] The gemara continues, "No. It is when you see a shadow." [Therefore it's a real person] The gemara asks, "But the shadim also can have shadows!" The gemara concludes, "No. You also saw a shadow of a shadow."
The gemara ends, saying that since you saw a “shadow of a shadow,” this cannot be a shade, and we can divorce this man’s wife. On the surface, this is a very strange gemara indeed. But there must be an idea here. (We can also ask why a shade might be assumed in such a case, where one thinks he hears a man wishing to divorce his wife.)
There are a number of questions:
1) What exactly is a demon? Can it be taken literally that there are demons roaming the earth? Have any of us ever seen one?
2) Why are we not admonished from greeting our friends in the city? Why is the warning only in the fields, pits, night time, and mountain tops? Are shadim unable to leave these four situations?! This is truly odd.
3) What is the warning about? Will they harm us? If so, what's the difference if we greet them or not? Can they not harm us equally, whether or not we greet them?
4) In Gittin 66a above, how does a “shadow of a shadow” prove that it is not a shade?
The answer to all these questions can be approached by first looking at one peculiar bit of information: the location where we are warned not to greet friends. All the cases — pits, fields, mountain tops, night time — are cases of isolation. Either geographical isolation (mountain tops, pits/caves, or fields/deserts) or psychological isolation: at night.
In summary, the Rabbis teach that shadim are illusions created to satisfy real concerns. They are fantasies created in our minds. As the Rabbis warned us not to cross the line with a greeting, thereby treating fantasy as reality.
R" shedim are illusions? really ? -------------------------------------------- beitarizal.org/tag/shedim/02/09/2014 HOW DOES THE SITRA ACHRA BENEFIT FROM THIS SPIRITUAL ENERGY? As it is brought in Kabbalah, “For during all those [130] years that Adam kept away from his wife [Chava, to ‘know her’], unclean spirits came and conceived from him, and bore offspring, which are called ‘plagues of the offspring of Adam’ (Zohar I:169b, Vayishlach). The ‘unclean spirits’, known as sexual shedim/demons, are called Lilim yemach shemo, and have origin in the feminine shed Lilit, yemach shemo. These are “impregnated” (see Avot d’Rebbi Natan 37:3) from the spiritual energy of semen (spilled in vain) which was ‘not’ used in kedusha (and in this manner, impurify man) and give birth to the ‘plagues’ – another class of shedim – which flit about in the world ‘filling the atmosphere’ together with the other hordes, such as the mekatrigim/accusers (see Zohar 190a, Vayeshev; 196b, Balak; R’ Chayim Palachi, Kaf HaChayim 240). Moreover, this progeny of shedim is very “special”, being that they are hybrid creatures of demoniac-souls (i.e., human neshamot that have no guf/body to be connected to, plus the Lilim, yemach shemo), which steal and so ‘starve these poor souls of their great vital energy’ (see Bamidbar Rabbah 16:25) since each neshama that is brought down from its source above receive spiritual sustenance.
R" more dribble, nothing on origin. ----------------------------------------- www.mesora.org/shadim.htmlShadim (demons) Are they real? If so, what are they?
RABBI MOSHE BEN-CHAIM
Compared to the thousands of ideas in the Babylonian Talmud, there are relatively few instances of the term “shadim,” usually translated as “demons.” Regardless of its infrequence, the concept deserves elucidation. When the Rabbis discuss unusual phenomena, one must be extra cautious to maintain rationality and refrain from a flight of fantasy. If we are in a remote rural area, in a pit, on a mountain top, or if it is at night…the Rabbis tell us not to give greetings to “others,” lest he be a “shade.” Additionally, a Talmudic portion (Gittin 66a) states that if one hears a voice calling from a pit, (telling anyone who hears) to divorce his wife, we listen to him. The gemara asks, "Perhaps it is a shade?" [And we should ignore it] The gemara continues, "No. It is when you see a shadow." [Therefore it's a real person] The gemara asks, "But the shadim also can have shadows!" The gemara concludes, "No. You also saw a shadow of a shadow." The gemara ends, saying that since you saw a “shadow of a shadow,” this cannot be a shade, and we can divorce this man’s wife. On the surface, this is a very strange gemara indeed. But there must be an idea here. (We can also ask why a shade might be assumed in such a case, where one thinks he hears a man wishing to divorce his wife.)
Rob summary: The Jews do not have any real origin of the shedim. Their writings is just myth, dribble and inventions of the minds of men. Dave also ignore the "shedim sinneth".... 1Jo 3:8 for the devil sinneth 1Jo 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: Here John speaks of two groups of children The children of elohiym and The children of the false elohiym. So if this not promoting a two elohiym system with two groups of humans, the sons of elohiym, and the sons of the devil. --------------------------------------- Dave posts "Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee..
Man – was perfect before Eve The Beast appeared ready to devour – fully formed ready to do his job The Beast was never perfectR" I see you are misapplying the SIMILE. The Scripture says the cherub was once sinless until iniquity was found in thee. You state your SIMILE was "appeared ready to devour – fully formed ready to do his job" is a complete contradiction of the Simile of the above verse you quoted. Therefore GOD never created a RA creature who "appeared ready to devour – fully formed ready to do his job" - this is an added writing from your Gnostic source. D" When was your satan ever laid before man as a sinner - exposed for who he isR" My reply is from the Garden of Eden, the sinning arum was only allowed to represent himself as the tree is was, the tree of knowing good and evil. The other tree in the middle of the Garden represented GOD, who also knows good and evil, but only promotes good all the time. Dave denies there are TWO trees in the middle of the Garden, and thus humans were told of this elohiym power and told NOT to bow down to it, or worship it. to this end GOD gave them a simple test of obedience, not to eat of His fruit. Ex 21:14 But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbour, to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from mine altar, that he may die. The Bible term for killing physically is " harag" and here one is deserving of "harag" if one kills another with guile. KJV has traslated many Hebrew words as "guile" so a Word study is confusing. Re 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God. If humans are without guile, or fault, why are they not still tempted by the creature God so called created, to further continue to tempt them to sin? Job was faultless and without guile, but an OPPOSER came to GOD, and GOD agreed to allow the OPPOSER to tempt further JOB to see if JOB would sin, but JOB did NOT sin. My point is sinless creatures do not need continual testing as you claim. D" Is your satan god – gone and forgotten?R" Yes affliction shall not arise a second time. You threaten to delete my posts, because I speak truth? Your Gnostic writings have no provision for affliction arsing the first time? Where is the passage? Gnostic writings do not have any passage. Dave fully admits "appeared ready to devour – fully formed ready to do his job" This is not speaking of affliction arising the first time, as the verse you misapply speaks Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.. The creature (cherub) was once sinless and became to be filled with iniquity... hence became a source of affliction. Dave posts" Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Thou has sinned – ‘O covering cherub’ (KING OF TYRE) God – put an end to it – no more King of TyreR" Yes correct, King Tyre is destroyed for his sinning. But you neglect the simile, but so will the cherub that sinned also be destroyed for his sinning too. Otherwise your beast power is no false elohiym power, you claim to agree with me? Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. This law does not refer to humans worshipping humans who claim to be false elohiym powers, but shedim who claim to be false elohiym powers, that humans worship. But this implies the shedim can sin. But Dave denies this, because shedim have no free will. But the Ezekiel passage says the cherub was sinless until iniquity was found, so obviously chooses to sin. And Ezekiel 28 says the cherub sins. John says the shedim sins. A cherub who sins must be termed in Scripture shedim. This definition is ignored by Jewish writings. D" When was your satan reduced to ashes on earth – in the sight of menR" during the final judgement, all humans are raised together in one place on earth, around the city and the OPPOSER is fully exposed as the first cherub that sinned. See Rev 20:7 to 10 Re 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire.... D" TOV – according to your Jeff Brenner – movement toward God RA – according to your Jeff Brenner – movement away from GodR" correct but technically 1Jo 3:4 ¶ Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. John defines sins as breaking the law. Which law? James says the royal law. And so the false elohiym powers humans are not to bow down to in Exodus 20:1-2 have to be sinning shedim. And John says if humans sin with this sinning shedim tyhe humans become children of the devil, not children of God. D" YES – you need someone else to blame – your satan FORCED Eve – RULED Eve – Eve was a victimR" Not to blame Dave. Failing to reason properly is your choice. So you cannot blame some other influence, God will not tolerate excuse makers. D" TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS ROBERT – your choice are all on youR" Absolutely correct If Adam and Eve had no guile in their mouth, why was shedim allowed to be in the Garden near it's tree, the tree of good and evil? (1) to test them futher? But in Rev are humans without guile, do they need to be further tested? No Why was Job, also without guile, further tested than? Because the opposer wanted to keep on tempting Job to sin. Why? Because it is his role/ his job? No not his role, because the shedim are ended in the lake of fire. So in the next creation are the sinless ever tested again? So why does Dave consider the first creation required testing by the shedim? Why does the shedim exist in the first creation but not in the second creation? Obviously affliction does not arise a second time. Hence sinning is only allowed once. Dave admits "" appeared ready to devour – fully formed ready to do his job" is a false idea. Your Gnostic writings do not have shedim that choose to sin, from free will to sin. Why else are the shedim through into the Lake of Fire along with sinning humans? D" The only way the serpent lied – is if the promise of eternal life is a lie Why do you deny the promise of eternal life – why do you deny LIFE LIVESR" Did the Shedim know of God process of salvation for sinning humans that have never sinned before, Dave? My answer to this is NO, the shedim did not know, They are not GOD, nor like GOD, nor do they know all things like GOD does. How much power do you grant to your shedim Dave? Therefore the Shedim sinned speaking arum to Eve. D" 2- STOP BLAMING another for you own choices R" Not blaming, I am speaking of origin. D" When a bird eats a mosquito – the bird murders the insect R" No command, that says" thou shalt not "harag". A bird can "harag" a mozzie. This is not a sin. The command " No Ratsach" is completely different. It says do not remove the ability for a free will creature to choose salvation by wounding him/her. But the shedim kill (harag) with guile, meaning words designed to kill humans. D" The serpent does what the serpent does – make the WORLD look good – promote world
They are a distractionR" Really? John says the "shedim sin" 1 John 3:8, you deny these two words in the torah written by John. D" Moreover, they threw mankind into great distraction and into a life of toil, so that their mankind might be occupied by worldly affairs, and might not have the opportunity of being devoted to the holy spirit.R" Do you need this verse? 1Jo 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. John writes your passage as well, but John also says 1Jo 3:8 ...the devil sinneth Words you choose to ignore. D" Proof you have an unusual view of the ahl/OT – ahl/NT because everyone else believes that GOD TEST MANR" Really? Why was the SHEDIM in the Garden in the first place? "Rev 12:8 war in heaven. banished to earth. than comes humans. Obviously to witness about the messengers who sin, that sinless humans can lives near shedim and choose not to sin, thus remain sinless. Why else is the command written in the royal law Ex 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. The shedim banish to earth must be sinning shedim, as John says, and Jude says, and Ezekiel says. Dave quotes out of context "For you, O God, have tested us; you have tried us as silver is tried" Silver is refined to remove dross. Once dross is remove, not further refining is required. All your verses refer sinning choosing to become less sinning. Once a human is sinless they do not require further testing. D" WHO CARES WHAT YOU TEACH – SCRIPTURE SAYS GOD TEST MANR" So in the next creation the sinless humans still require shedim in the next creation to further test them ? Is this your view Dave? D" without ra – nature is not in balance and would cease to functionR" Why in the next creation than Dave, is all traces of RA removed from the next creation? Something wrong in your thinking? D" Religious babble – NOTHING EXISTED BEFOR GEN 1:1R" SO you have almighty GOD creating ONCE only? D" The beginning of Australia was 1788 The beginning of America was 1776 The beginning of the space race was 1958R" Can't you go back further than 0000 ? What happened before earth's time existed? How far back in time can your view go? Pr 8:22 ¶ The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. This verse speaks before earth time, 0000, long ago before earth time existed, trillions of years before earth existed. "in the beginning of his way" before eternity began. RP" Dave denies the shedim with free will sin intentionally.D" CORRECT – angels and archon are not the same as man R" You deny Scripture 1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. Says here humans sin as the shedim sin. You deny this verse? D" So the devour the child as soon as it is born, is irgnorance, is it Dave? YEP - ENTROPY – ra – movement away from God The child of the womb of creation = all creationR" You ignore that SHEDIM can sin, its only entropy to you, a movement away from God, but created and designed that way, so its OK for shedim to live like this? Wow Dave, John says the shedim sin. D" Correct – the King of Tyre is like a cherub – covering his kingdom with protection NEVER DOES THE SIMILE COME ALIVE AS A NEW AND DIFFERENT BEING WITH ITS OWN THEOLOGYR" That's funny, King Tyre sinned so is destroyed. In the simile, a King Cherub sinned, and so will be destroyed too. Ignore the verse and you like your Jews have no origin of the shedim that sin. --------------------------------------- D "God sent satan after Job - Why is it a sin to obey God God sent satan to force David to take a census - Why is it a sin to obey God God established the enmity between man and archon - Why is it a sin to obey God God sent the destroying angel to kill all the first born of Egypt - Why is it a sin to obey God God sent the evil spirit upon Saul - Why is it a sin to obey GodR" You have a problem with "God sent". 1Ki 22:20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? The King Human wanted to sin, some more. So GOD asks who shall do what the King Human wants, and help make His sinning observable? 1Ki 22:21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. Why is the spirit agreeing to go ? 1Ki 22:22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. Because the spirit that wanted to go was already a lying sinning spirit, and GOD allowed the sinning spirit to go and make King Human sin some more. Sure God is always in control of sin and requests for sin, but where did this sinning spirit come from? Your GNostic writings says " God made is a sinning / entropy creature ready to devour" But my torah says the " cherub sinned" and became a sinning creature. But you deny torah on this. Dave posts " NO - An enemy of creation – entropy - used by GodSo your creatures are just designed to trip humans to sin, but do not sin by themselves since they have no free will to sin. So you deny scripture, John says the "shedim sin" Ezekiel says the "cherub sin" And Jesus says the Devil is a murderer that sins. and a Father of lies. D" IF YOU DO NOT STOP MISSREPRESENTING ME – I will begin deleting your postR" But its true, Gnostic writings do not speak of affliction arising the first time. D"Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee..
Man – was perfect before Eve The Beast appeared ready to devour – fully formed ready to do his job The Beast was never perfectR" This post is a complete denial of the verse you posted. The beast was once perfect and became imperfect. You deny the verse "till iniquity was found in thee" D" The Beast appeared ready to devour – fully formed ready to do his job"R" is a complete lie from Scritpure "Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee." Completely opposite to your post " The Beast appeared ready to devour – fully formed ready to do his job"The beast was perfect until iniquity was found in the beast. Is what the verse says. ----------------------------------------------------------------end-------- R" I will stop here, the post is too big already ANd Dave adds more and more distractions. Try answering the question? Who is the shedim that sins like humans sin, stop denying the Scriptures. Dave posts " Jun 6, 2020 at 9:55am robertt said: Yes I have two Kings and two gods opposing each other.R" Ex 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. What is this law about than? Shedim that must also sin? DUH But Dave has no beast/shedim that sin, because sinning involves free will to sin. D" YES – WE ALL UNDERSTAND YOU CONSIDER SATAN A GOD Jews, Christians, and Gnostic DO NOT – the Beast / devils are just created obstacles of this WORLDR" OK so who are these than 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me? JOhn calls the shedim that sin. Ezekiel calls them the cherub that sin. Dave pretends that no creatures sin except humans. D" ANSWER QUESTIONSR" I will answer your questions only after you answer mine first, who is the shedim in Exodus 20:1-2
that John says sin? Shalom
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