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Post by Dave on Dec 6, 2022 18:18:47 GMT -5
You do not entertain the idea that cherubs can even sin, and thus were the first creature to have sinned in the past. This is what Rev 12 is about.
D" You continue to claim that what happened in Gen 1:2 = SIN You deny Rom 5:13 IF – what happen in Gen 1:2 = SIN why did God call it tov R" I will bite. What are you talking about? ANd this time write a serious discussion.
I have been asking the question for a year now – you pretend you don’t understand
Rev 12:1-17 = the opening moments of creation Rev 12:7 = is one of your proofs – war Which results in the choshek of Gen 1:2 IF - you claim that what happened in Gen 1:2 = SIN You deny Rom 5:13 IF – what happen in Gen 1:2 = SIN why did God call it tov
It is a straight forward question – You insist it is a sin – God called it tov – why? If- the Beast of Gen 1:2 is a sinning angel Then – Jude and Peter say they are all locked away
In Hebrew we have two words for "sin" they are "chata" and "chataah", both have similar meaning. Jeff Benner "chata" "err" and "chataah" "error". Hmm? Nice attempt, but lacks application.
Doesn’t matter If you insist the Beast was thrown out of heaven because he sinned against God Why does God call it tov – is the ahl/OT error Why are not all Beast locked away – or is the agl/NT error
In REV 12 we are told some "sinning angels" were banished to this "solid fluid" hence why this "solid fluid" is "void", "formless" and in "the darkness of sin", where GOD leaves the "sinner". DARKNESS – choshek – Gen 1:2 IF - you claim that what happened in Gen 1:2 = SIN You deny Rom 5:13 IF – what happen in Gen 1:2 = SIN why did God call it tov
It is a straight forward question – ------------------------------
The dry land that emerged, or was going to emerge was void and formless, and darkness was over the solid fluid. Why was "Earth" like this? Because of a "SIN" problem, something you deny.
The earth did not magically appear fully formed Even scripture says – it was a series of separation events Each and every separation event = an entropy – a ra You are so sick with your evil god – you claim creation is evil invent a whole brand new gamete of word meanings and terms, "like yester TOV and yester RA" and "entropy/RA/natural sinning"
(yester ra) = Gen 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply (yester ra) for man = Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
1- Why do you call God’s blessing evil? You are so sick with your evil god – you claim creation is evil
2- God created our reality with laws = mathematics is God’s formula
1st Law = Energy cannot be created or destroyed. Only transmuted or translated. Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. E=mc2
2nd Law = the combined entropy of the system and the environment must increase. Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. BUT YOU TEACH IT IS FLAWED – filled with sin
Psa 19:2 The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky shows His handiwork. BUT YOU TEACH IT IS FLAWED – filled with sin Meteor impacts – exploding stars – fiery stars eating planets – black holes eating galaxies
Rom 1:19 because what can be known about God is plain to them—for God has shown it to them. Rom 1:20 His invisible attributes—His eternal power and His divine nature—have been clearly seen ever since the creation of the world, being understood through the things that have been made. So people are without excuse— ALL CREATION WITNESSES TO GOD’s CREATION BUT YOU TEACH IT IS FLAWED – filled with sin Meteor impacts – exploding stars – fiery stars eating planets – black holes eating galaxies The cycle of life – birth – growth – death – leading to new life YOU CLAIM THIS IS ALL SIN AND EVIL You are so sick with your evil god ----------------------
R" So if the beast do not have free will to sin , why do you write those "sinning beasts" are locked away? Stop confusing readers with terms that have English meanings, when your beast cannot "sin" in the first place.
You already know my answer – if you ask me 10,000 times – will my answer change - NO The ‘sinning messengers of the Beast’ = the bane elohiym of Gen 6 = Enoch and his Watchers = locked away and held in prision – Enoch, Jude, and Peter This was a group of approx. 200 + the Gigori that they fathered Their sin = the reproduced out of their own kind Compulsion your Rabbi Davis called it – the instinctive drive to reproduce They do what they were commanded to do – go forth and multiply Once they were in mortal from – they went forth and multiplied They do – what they were programmed to do – not a choice
Or at least write the "beast that did have sex with woman, doing a bad yester ra, got locked away for this bad behaviour" I just said that ---------------------------------
It's as if you, as a Jew, invent a whole brand new gamete of word meanings and terms, "like yester TOV and yester RA" and "entropy/RA/natural sinning" you add and change the TORAH word meanings with your invented traditions and precepts of men.
RP" Who first sinned, long before humans even existed. D" NO ONE – you preach a contradiction R" What? you deny the false elohiym that existed long before Mankind existed than? NOPE both created on Day 1
SO who is this false elohiym power than? that morally sins from the beginning of earth based time? According to you – no one – your satan was perfect from the beginning - God’s friend – only sinned later According to me – it was the Beast that sinned against the entirety
D"Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned. R" I asked you for the verse in Hebrew It is not written in Hebrew
Rom 5:12 So then, just as "sin-offering" NONSENSE – sin is disobedience to God or transgression oh his commandments SIN is not an offering to God – unless your god is satan and you sin to please your satan god You are so sick with your evil god
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of GNOSIS falsely so called: 21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. And so Dave, you err reading this deceptive stuff. Why do you insist that – the words of Jesus Christ + Luke + James, John, Paul, Peter, Philip, and Thomas are Gnostic error – and claim to be a christian ---------------------------
If angels decide to have sex with humans, is this not breaking the command? No adultery? NOT adultery – but reproduce after your own kind
And if the beast "murder" other creatures, as Jesus said the beast power does as a "father", and does as a "murderer", does this not mean the "beast power" morally sins? It does in my view. But not in Dave's view?? NO – it is not a sin for a lion to feed his pride – it is nature IT IS THE COMMANDMENT TO GO FORTH AND MULTIPLY – self-preservation / survival of the species -----------------------------------
D" Was the devil a sinner from the beginning 1 John 3:8 – the verse you continually post Or was he perfect in all his ways - Ezk 28 the verse you continually repeat like a parrot Which theology belong to you? R" Both. And you do not see this as a contradiction? You are so sick with your satan you cannot see your own folly
D"Correct – the BEAST appeared at the moment of creation And you know what means – The beast – the serpent race – that we call devils and satanas R" NO Dave, absolutely NOT, the Hebrew torah never teaches the SHAD were created
There is a lot of the agl/NT that is not within the Torah I you claim to be a Christian – why do you reject the agl/NT Obviously the ahl/OT is not the complete thelogy
And you even are more deceived, saying nowhere is "lying" seen as a "sin". Show me the verse – If you go fishing and catch a minnow and call it a whale – you are lying – NOT BEARING FALSE WITNESS AGAINST HIS NEIGHBOR
RP" Your Gnostic teachings teach GOD created all things, including natural sin, D" LIE – make things up - misrepresent – that how Ellen White SDA has trained you to answer R" OK I am sorry for misquoting you, where is your serious discussion YOUR CLAIM GOD CREATED SIN – WRONG – and INSULTING God gave man Free Will to choose and sin entered the world through Eve= Rom 5:12 It would be more correct to say – God allowed sin into the world
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2022 16:02:55 GMT -5
Greetings Dave D" IF – what happen in Gen 1:2 = SIN why did God call it tovR" Yesterday during a 9 hour drive I got a chance to mediate and speak to the Lord and He impressed me with this idea. Ge 1:1 ¶ In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. No where does this imply creating all the heavens for all the other places in other universes, it only applies to "earth" which came out of "yabbashah" the land that arises from out of the solid fluid. Ge 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; And this dry land that arise was formless and void, and empty. As you would expect, the land arose from out of the solid fluid with nothing on it. Ge 1:2 ...darkness was upon the face of the deep. This refers to the solid fluid ball, which was in darkness. Why was the solid fluid ball in darkness? And where does GOD declare this as TOV? A question to you Dave? Ge 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.First place where GOD declares anything TOV, the dry land and the seas that sit on the solid fluid ball, that existed from a previous creation. Such a brand new development for this solid fluid ball is termed TOV, but no where does GOD term darkness TOV, show me a verse that does ? D" DARKNESS – choshek – Gen 1:2 IF - you claim that what happened in Gen 1:2 = SIN You deny Rom 5:13R" Why can't sin arise for different creature kinds without affecting the other creature kinds unless they also choose to sin, which they didn't. Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Obviously other "reigners" were watching the "reigner" that sinned, who was cast to the ground, lost his title as commanding chief cherub. These other "reigners" remained sinless while the cherub that sinned continued to sin, making other cherub also sin with him. D" IF – what happen in Gen 1:2 = SIN why did God call it tov
It is a straight forward question –R" Where does GOD call darkness a TOV? Ge 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Here GOD is terming this darkness arising from the cherubs that sinned, into a term called "night", and thus creates "day one", the first day of time relative to the new land arsing from "yabbashah" so TIME is established for "earth", not the solid fluid ball, which already existed from a previous creation. Where is your serious discussion Dave? You do not write any and you do not explain. D" The earth did not magically appear fully formed Even scripture says – it was a series of separation events Each and every separation event = an entropy – a raR" Is this your serious discussion of Dave's view? Three pithy statements? Robert Gantry looking at plutonium halos discovered the granite rock from which the "earth" came out of the "solid fluid" was made in less that 6 seconds, and the radioactive decay of plutonium is extremely rapid. SO your statement " The earth did not magically appear fully formed" is bogus. The dry land came out of the "solid fluid ball" rapidly within seconds of becoming stable granite rocks, etc. D" Each and every separation event = an entropy – a raR" proof please. Otherwise a bogus claim, totally not back up by anything except your mind, and inventions of the Gnostic religion. D" You are so sick with your evil god – you claim creation is evilR" How about explaining your view, rather than 3 pithy sentences followed by your mocking? D" 1- Why do you call God’s blessing evil?R" I don't, but I do not invent terms like calling it a "yester ra" like you and some Jews do. Where is your discussion? D" 2- God created our reality with lawsR" You assume to know God and His laws? D" 2nd Law = the combined entropy of the system and the environment must increase.R" Is that a serious discussion of your view? SO Gnostic teaches RA is a natural part of Creation, that the tov and RA exist together in matter and GOD comes and calls them apart into more order? Bogus idea Dave. Not based on Scripture. It's easy to test your theory? in the next creation Dave, does your natural RA still exist in the matter? DO the RA archon creatures still exist to tempt humans to sin, in the next creation Dave? Is there night and day in the next creation for earth after all the SIN is gone forever? Try answering these questions with Bible. Also notice the next re-creation for earth, is "renewed" not "brand new" so the two creations for earth are related to each other. D"Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. BUT YOU TEACH IT IS FLAWED – filled with sin
R" Show me where GOD declared darkness as TOV? The creation of earth as brand new land arising from the solid fluid ball already in darkness, was all functional and perfect, existing in and around the only state the existing solid fluid and the sinning angels already there had with that state, darkness. And darkness is NOT a natural state in the first place, Darkness does not exist according to Einstein, Darkness is the absence of GOD presence, so this solid fluid ball had the natural absence of God's presence, for a reason, because sinning angels were living on it, and GOD made a finely tuned universe around it, to allow SIN to be observed for a time, while making a perfect sinless creation over it. If GOD forms light and creates darkness as Isaiah 45 says, than darkness is a process involving GOD presence as a result of some SIN already taken place, hence darkness on it's own is NOT natural. In the next creation when GOD is allowed full presence with a 7 fold increase in the SUN, a simile of GOD's power, there are no umbra shadows, and no night, only bright and less bright times. D" BUT YOU TEACH IT IS FLAWED – filled with sinR" Darkness is NOT SIN, nor does it exist naturally. Darkness is the absence of GOD, hence why did GOD leave the solid fluid ball in darkness? Because of the sinning angels living there? DUH, darkness is associated with previous sinning. You still did not discuss your view, only mock mine. D "BUT YOU TEACH IT IS FLAWED – filled with sinR" You teach as Gnostics do that GOD allows both RA and entropy as RA, to exist naturally in matter, and even allow RA animals to exist. Such ideas are bogus. Any remotely RA is a fruit from previous sinning. And GOD does not tolerate SIN in any form in His design. Entropy does not exist in GOD's perfect world. Our creation was perfectly tuned to accommodate the sinning angels presence along with man's presence in a sinless state, along with all the animals and plants and even the ground, in a sinless state too. Notice I discuss my view and explain it. Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. GOD designed to lay the sinning angel to the ground and allow other sinless REIGNERS to watch the SIN problem unfold, with a creation over this solid fluid ball, to allow observations of the sinless with the sinning. As a witness to what happens when the sinning angels meet sinless creatures having never seen sin happen before. The REIGNERS of other sinless worlds, watch. They behold how GOD deals with His SIN problem. By ignoring Ezekiel 28 you miss much on the details of the SIN problem, the war that was in heaven, as Rev 12 explains. ----------------- D" You already know my answer – if you ask me 10,000 times – will my answer change - NOR" you rave on as Dave can, not answering my question. My question was " So if the beast do not have free will to sin , why do you write those "sinning beasts" are locked away? Stop confusing readers with terms that have English meanings, when your beast cannot "sin" in the first place." And Dave's answer is D" I just said that
When Rob corrected Dave by saying " at least write the "beast that did have sex with woman, doing a bad yester ra, got locked away for this bad behaviour" Notice I do not term the behaviour as a sin, because in your view, such creatures cannot morally sin. But you never explain why such creatures are made to do bad behaviour but not or cannot do moral sin? ------------------ RP" Who first sinned, long before humans even existed. DP" NO ONE – you preach a contradiction RP" What? you deny the false elohiym that existed long before Mankind existed than?D" NOPE both created on Day 1R" Such a detailed discussion here folks? Brevity Dave So now you say the false elohiym power existed on day one, but did not sin? Please explain how the false elohiym power is a false elohiym power without morally sinning, as Exodus 20:1 to 2 explains that the power is a morally sinning power. RP" SO who is this false elohiym power than? that morally sins from the beginning of earth based time?D" According to you – no one – your satan was perfect from the beginning - God’s friend – only sinned later According to me – it was the Beast that sinned against the entiretyR" I know which theory of faith I would follow, sola scriptoria, Ezekiel 28. When a cherub who was once God's friend decides to sin and continue sinning, the friend becomes and enemy Dave, the relationship finally breaks and remains broken forever. DUH My theory comes from in Scripture. Your theory comes from Gnostic writings. Outside of the Hebrew torah, hence an invention of deception. RP" D" Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned. RP" I asked you for the verse in HebrewD" It is not written in HebrewR" But it was originally, and later translated into Greek. Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. This verse tells you this, and if you read the GREEK translation, your understanding is with a stammering lip. Just as people who read Bible in English is also another tongue, with stammering lip. If you read torah in Hebrew there is no stammering lip. DUH D"Rom 5:12 So then, just as "sin-offering" NONSENSE – sin is disobedience to God or transgression oh his commandments SIN is not an offering to God R" Another subject you do not understand hey? You do not even understand what SIN is and what a SINNER does once he has SINNED? Ex 32:30 ¶ And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.Here is a good verse explaining all your concerns.' chata, chataah and atonement all here in once verse. But this is a new topic, so I am not going here. Explain the verse Dave. ---------- RP" And if the beast "murder" other creatures, as Jesus said the beast power does as a "father", and does as a "murderer", does this not mean the "beast power" morally sins? It does in my view. But not in Dave's view??D" NO – it is not a sin for a lion to feed his pride – it is nature IT IS THE COMMANDMENT TO GO FORTH AND MULTIPLY – self-preservation / survival of the speciesR" you treat your archons as mere brute animals with yester ra. I pity your lack of intelligence. I have not heard of any animals wishing to command me to worship it, or bow down to it? Obviously this animal creature has really higher powers of intellect so that moral sinning and moral accountability is required of GOD to the creature, hence is NOT a mute beast, but a creature of moral accountability. Not considered by Dave. You avoid and twist. ----------------------- DP" Was the devil a sinner from the beginning 1 John 3:8 – the verse you continually post Or was he perfect in all his ways - Ezk 28 the verse you continually repeat like a parrot Which theology belong to you? RP" Both.D" And you do not see this as a contradiction?R" Unless you explain why it is a contradiction? A sinless creature chooses to become a sinning creature, how is this a contradiction? Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. Here is a sinless human fully declared as sinless but leaves his sinless state and begins sinning again, does GOD see this as a contradiction? NO, the backslidding creature is faced with his own nonexistence for his SIN. Ho 3:2 So I bought her to me. Again a sinning creature is BOUGHT at a sinning price and declared sinless by the REDEEMER, is this a contradiction by GOD ? No, it is salvation with a price. Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, So when the creature sins, does not GOD reason with the creature so the creature stops sinning and repents and returns back to GOD? How is this a contradiction? But you do not have creatures with this ability to reason, only humans, I pity your limited theology. You are correct " you cannot see your own folly" ------------ RP" NO Dave, absolutely NOT, the Hebrew torah never teaches the SHAD were createdD" There is a lot of the agl/NT that is not within the TorahR" No Dave, all answers are already in the TORAH, you just didn't ask to find them, so you seek answers else where. Well said Dave " you claim to be a Christian – why do you reject the agl/NT" Why do you reject sola scriptoria? D" YOUR CLAIM GOD CREATED SIN – WRONG – and INSULTINGR" I have never said GOD created SIN, why do you even misquote me, if only to MOCK? R" OK I am sorry for misquoting you, where is your serious discussionR" None offered? DO you have any serious discussion? Have you ever had any serious thinking written down on your website? How detailed is your answer on your website, why Jesus died? Where are you serious discussions? My website has over 1400 webpages and if translated to A4 pages of writings that would be? However I praise you for trying to answer the question, why Jesus died? You didn't really answer the question, now I have tried to answer that myself. spiritualsprings.org/ss-1326.htmShalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 10, 2022 6:03:04 GMT -5
R" Yesterday during a 9 hour drive I got a chance to mediate and speak to the Lord and He impressed me with this idea.
Ge 1:1 ¶ In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
No where does this imply creating all the heavens for all the other places in other universes, it only applies to "earth" which came out of "yabbashah" the land that arises from out of the solid fluid.
ABSOLUYELY CHILDISH NONSENSE – You play too many word games – you cannot tell the difference between “earth” and “EARTH” There is no second creation – no second creator
Proof that you are not a student of scripture - you think it fun to mock scripture ---------------------------
Ge 1:2 ...darkness was upon the face of the deep. And where does GOD declare this as TOV? A question to you Dave?
Gen 1:31 So God saw everything that He made, and behold it was very good. H2896 - -טוֹב - ṭôb From H2895; good (as an adjective) in the widest sense; --------------------
D"DARKNESS – choshek – Gen 1:2 IF - you claim that what happened in Gen 1:2 = SIN You deny Rom 5:13
R" Why can't sin arise for different creature kinds without affecting the other creature kinds unless they also choose to sin, which they didn't.
THIS IS NOT YOUR TEACHING You say sin from you satan angel changed everything (affecting everything) for the man– all DNA changed for all plants and animals -------------------------
D"The earth did not magically appear fully formed Even scripture says – it was a series of separation events Each and every separation event = an entropy – a ra R" Is this your serious discussion of Dave's view? YEP – totally serious
Three pithy statements? Three statements of fact ---------------------------
D"Each and every separation event = an entropy – a ra R" proof please. Otherwise a bogus claim, totally not back up by anything except your mind, and inventions of the Gnostic religion.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Separation event Your proof that that this separation event = ra
Gen 1:6 and let it divide the waters from the waters. Separation event
Gen 1:7 , and divided the waters Separation event
Gen 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. Separation event --------------------------------
D"You are so sick with your evil god – you claim creation is evil R" How about explaining your view, rather than 3 pithy sentences followed by your mocking? Psa 19:2 + Rom 1:19-20 – witness to God’s Hndiwork You claim God’s creation is flawed You teach God wanted to make a tov world – but your satan stopped God – thwarted God’s Plan against God’s Will You tech God is weak and must change and respond to you powerful satan god -----------------------------------------
D"1- Why do you call God’s blessing evil? R" I don't, but I do not invent terms like calling it a "yester ra" like you and some Jews do. Where is your discussion? I have posted for you the Hebrew study on this – obviously it was too hard for you to read --------------------------------------
D"2- God created our reality with laws R" You assume to know God and His laws? I don’t personally – but Pas 19:2 + Rom 1:19-20 man has uncovered God’s Laws for nature
D" 2nd Law = the combined entropy of the system and the environment must increase. R" Is that a serious discussion of your view? YEP – totally serious
SO Gnostic teaches RA is a natural part of Creation Bogus idea Dave. Not based on Scripture.
Only if you deny scripture sa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. -------------------------
It's easy to test your theory? in the next creation Dave, does your natural RA still exist in the matter? No one here is discussioning the NEXT world
DO the RA archon creatures still exist to tempt humans to sin, in the next creation Dave? Only if you deny scripture Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. ------------------------
D"BUT YOU TEACH IT IS FLAWED – filled with sin R" Darkness is NOT SIN, nor does it exist naturally. Darkness is the absence of GOD, THANK YOU – what happened in Gen 1:2 was NOT a sin – it was IGNORANCE IGNORANCE is obviously ALLOWED by God
Opening his eyes, he saw a vast quantity of matter without limit; and he became arrogant, saying, "It is I who am God, and there is none other apart from me". When he said this, he sinned against the entirety. And a voice came forth from above the realm of absolute power, saying, "You are mistaken, Samael" – which is, 'god of the blind'.
1- R” Because of the sinning angels living there? DUH, darkness is associated with previous sinning. 2- R" Darkness is NOT SIN, nor does it exist naturally. You still did not discuss your view, only mock mine. Make up your mind - which theology is yours - you preach a contradiction ------------------------
By ignoring Ezekiel 28 you miss much on the details of the SIN problem, the war that was in heaven, as Rev 12 explains. So confusing – you just said R" Darkness is NOT SIN Now you say is was all sin – please make up your mind -----------------
RP" Who first sinned, long before humans even existed. DP" NO ONE – you preach a contradiction RP" What? you deny the false elohiym that existed long before Mankind existed than? D" NOPE both created on Day 1
R" Such a detailed discussion here folks? Brevity Dave So now you say the false elohiym power existed on day one, but did not sin? Correct – the Host of heaven were created on Day 1 – this includes the Beast And – what happened in Gen 1:2 was not SIN – but DARKNESS ------------------------------
RP" SO who is this false elohiym power than? that morally sins from the beginning of earth based time? D" According to you – no one – your satan was perfect from the beginning - God’s friend – only sinned later According to me – it was the Beast that sinned against the entirety R" I know which theory of faith I would follow, sola scriptoria, Ezekiel 28. When a cherub who was once God's friend decides to sin and continue sinning,
Then answer you own question – who is the devil that sins from the beginning - your 1 John 3:8 -----------------------------------
RP" D"Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned. RP" I asked you for the verse in Hebrew D" It is not written in Hebrew R" But it was originally, and later translated into Greek. NO PROOF IT WAS WRITTEN IN HEBREW and then translated (google) The New Testament was written in a form of Koine Greek, which was the common language of the Eastern Mediterranean from the conquests of Alexander the Great (335–323 BC) -----------------------------
D"Rom 5:12 So then, just as "sin-offering" NONSENSE – sin is disobedience to God or transgression oh his commandments SIN is not an offering to God R" Another subject you do not understand hey? SIN is NOT an offering to GOD – sanyone who says so is a disciple of satan
Dave's view?? D" NO – it is not a sin for a lion to feed his pride – it is nature IT IS THE COMMANDMENT TO GO FORTH AND MULTIPLY – self-preservation / survival of the species R" you treat your archons as mere brute animals with yester ra. I pity your lack of intelligence.
Rev 12 introduces us to the BEAST – why do you have different definition for this word that everyone else in the world Please give me the Biblical definition for BEAST
Obviously this animal creature has really higher powers of intellect YEP – AGREE Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. -----------------------
DP" Was the devil a sinner from the beginning 1 John 3:8 – the verse you continually post Or was he perfect in all his ways - Ezk 28 the verse you continually repeat like a parrot Which theology belong to you? RP" Both. D" And you do not see this as a contradiction? R" Unless you explain why it is a contradiction? And I am not supposed to mock your answer – Mr Serious ------------
D"YOUR CLAIM GOD CREATED SIN – WRONG – and INSULTING R" I have never said GOD created SIN, why do you even misquote me, if only to MOCK?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2022 16:06:45 GMT -5
Greetings Dave Just pithy replies without a serious attempt to defend your views, or answer my questions
D" You play too many word games – you cannot tell the difference between “earth” and “EARTH” R" OH so there is a difference in these words is there?
Ro 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
"What is the difference between Pneumia and pneumia" ?
My answer is none, same word.
Same applies to your silly idea of earth and EARTH. But Dave does not discuss his ideas.
D"There is no second creation – no second creator R" So the Creator is only allowed to create ONCE? SO you limit your Amlighty Creator , who only created things once? In contrast, I like to engineer things all the time, would hate to count all the times I have done this in God's probation time for me.
D"Proof that you are not a student of scripture - you think it fun to mock scripture R" Unlike you, I study Scripture, you do not like to do this.
RP" Ge 1:2 ...darkness was upon the face of the deep. And where does GOD declare this as TOV? A question to you Dave?
D" Gen 1:31 So God saw everything that He made, and behold it was very good. R" Since when is this darkness created as a part of Adam's Creation? It plainly says the darkness was already there over the surface of the solid fluid ball. As with the solid fluid ball, both of these things were created by some earlier creation.
And the darkness that GOD created over this ball, arises because of the angels living there want to do lots of sinning, hence the darkness is a consequence of sinning, not actual sin.
However in your Gnostic view, you have the idea that God can create things with entropy naturally embedded in the matter (which is false , because entropy like RA is a consequence of previous sinning, and SIN is something GOD does not have in his perfect world).
D"THIS IS NOT YOUR TEACHING You say sin from you satan angel changed everything (affecting everything) for the man– all DNA changed for all plants and animals R" You assume to misquote my view. Satan did not need to change all the DNA of animals and plants, maybe a few only? We don't know for sure. As for man, yes the mischief maker did mischief to the DNA of the woman, thus affecting the inherited perfection of our genes. As for the gradual decay of Adam's creation, this arose for GOD cursing the ground, thus the entropy began to emerge in the matter only AFTER Adam sinned, when God spoke the curse.
I would not agree the opposing angel changed everything, but certain gene traits were change so the human were corrupted and enslaved by the false elohiym power, which sins in doing this spoiling.
RP"Three pithy statements? D" Three statements of fact R" spoken like a wonderful teacher who cares to teach
D"Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Separation event Your proof that that this separation event = ra
R" Notice the things your view teaches
(1) The WAR began as soon as CREATION began. (2) natural entropy began as soon as Creation began (3) God created the light and the darkness, according to you (4) For some reason messengers fought during the start of the creation, but we are not told why the fighting? (5) Creation requires lots of separations for RA?
--------------Question------------
What is RA? The word "chata" comes in verb and noun forms.
The word chata means to "miss occasionally" or "miss all the time", referring to incomplete or complete actions of this verb.
Ge 13:13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.
This verse defines RA, as something that arises from chata , that humans do, ie sin badly before the Lord.
Nowhere does torah teach RA is a natural object, in contrast the Bible teaches RA is a consequence of SIN.
This is an idea you refuse to believe Dave?
You do not agree the WAR in heaven is about SINNING?
In fact you try to make DARKNESS into a natural object, GOD creates as a part of His creation.
Yet your Gnostic view of Creation begins with war over entropy, fighting over animals of ignorance and lots of separations required because of entropy expanding.
My view of God creation is nothing like that.
(1) I do not have a war during Creation, Such sinning happened years before GOD created anything else over the solid fluid ball.
(2) I do not have entropy naturally present in matter. This proves to me your God is weak and cannot deal with such dysfunction? My God creates without entropy in the matter at all, everything is perfect. (3) No where is this darkness created, it must have been over the solid fluid ball in the beginning, as a consequence of sinning by angels living there. God says let there be light, and the light floods over the darkness that was already there. There is no hint of darkness being created, no hint of the solid fluid ball being created either. These two things were already there, and the dry land arises from the ball, as "earth".
D"Gen 1:6 and let it divide the waters from the waters. Separation event R" WOW big discussion from Dave, OK so how is the separation event got anything to do with RA? Duh?
Am I to assume and play your religion without proof?
D"Psa 19:2 + Rom 1:19-20 – witness to God’s Hndiwork You claim God’s creation is flawed You teach God wanted to make a tov world – but your satan stopped God – thwarted God’s Plan against God’s Will You tech God is weak and must change and respond to you powerful satan god R" you speak ARUM, twisting your own view to confuse me and mock me.
My Creation was never flawed, God created Adam's creation with perfection, but it was also arranged to exist inside the world of SIN, and with SINNING angels. God did make a perfect world, Satan did not stop GOD.
When a creature wishes to sin, does GOD respond to the sinner? Please answer the question Dave?
D" I have posted for you the Hebrew study on this – obviously it was too hard for you to read R" you are kidding, a Jewish detailed account on the invented word twisting game of yester, RA and leb with machashabah, does not exist. Ge 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Here are all the words in one verse, now what arrogance can Jewish authors assume to make yester ra as a theory out of 2 verses that use "yester, RA and leb with machashabah" in a sentence, but the term "yester ra" never exists like this? Who plays word games? And really there exists a detailed Jewish study on this idea?
D"Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. R" WHY does GOD create darkness and create evil? Answer this question Dave?
Same question I asked before
When a creature wishes to sin, does GOD respond to the sinner? Please answer the question Dave?
And if GOD responds to the quest of the sinner, how does GOD respond? GOD creates darkness and creates evil? Why? To allow the sinner to see the sinning he wishes to make observable, because normally such things do not exist in God's world. So God has to do things to make the consequences of sinning exist.
DO you agree with my reasons here Dave? I would say no, because your Gnostic teaches both darkness and ra are naturally a part of God's creation of matter, and have nothing to do with sin or sinning of creatures. You deny Scripture.
D"No one here is discussing the NEXT world
R" I know that, so you are avoiding the question of the FIRST creation. I asked you when God creates things in the NEXT creation, does entropy exist in the matter or not? Does darkness exist over earth, so we have night and daylight times? Please answer my questions?
RP" DO the RA archon creatures still exist to tempt humans to sin, in the next creation Dave? D" Only if you deny scripture R" Dear readers, in Dave's confusion, he actually answers NO, the archons do not exist in the NEXT creation?
OK so why did GOD create such animals in the FIRST creation?
The lion is in the FIRST creation and the SECOND creation. The lamb is in the FIRST creation and the SECOND creation.
But the archon in the FIRST creation BUT NOT in the SECOND creation.
Why is that? This implies the SECOND creation is "brand new" with different creations for humans....
But Scripture does not teach a "brand new creation" but a "renewed creation" , so the "Archon" if such an animal really exists should exist in the second creation, but it doesn't. Why doesn't it? Because as the verses Dave quotes, the animal does moral sins which are punishable by the Lake of FIre and so sinning creatures are no allowed to exist. However some humans repend of sinning and so some humans exist in the second creation, but most humans do not. This means ALL archons are sinning and none repent. But if we make the archons into angels, some angels did repent, like humans do , and thus live in the second creation like humans do, with their experiences of sinning in heaven, and humans have with sinning on earth.
Where is Dave's discussion? He does not write one?
D"THANK YOU – what happened in Gen 1:2 was NOT a sin – it was IGNORANCE IGNORANCE is obviously ALLOWED by God R" You confuse SIN and SIN as a consequence.
All sins come from creatures that choose to sin. Hence darkness is a consequence of sin, not a sin itself.
In fact darkness implies a relationship changed. To make darkness you move further from the light (God).
D" Make up your mind - which theology is yours - you preach a contradiction R" All sins come from creatures that choose to sin. Hence darkness is a consequence of sin, not a sin itself. No contradiction.
D"So confusing – you just said R" Darkness is NOT SIN Now you say is was all sin – please make up your mind R"You confuse SIN and SIN as a consequence.
All sins come from creatures that choose to sin. Hence darkness is a consequence of sin, not a sin itself.
In fact darkness implies a relationship changed. To make darkness you move further from the light (God).
D"And – what happened in Gen 1:2 was not SIN – but DARKNESS R" SO darkness is not a consequence of SIN? Only something naturally made by GOD? Really Dave, ignore Scripture. Ac 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God,
Darkness is something the Opposer has Light is something GOD has.
Both are very different beings with very different consequences
D"NO PROOF IT WAS WRITTEN IN HEBREW and then translated R" SO you deny Jeff Benner
Read this online book
"Was the New Testament Really Written in Greek? A Concise Compendium of the Many Internal and External Evidences of Aramaic Peshitta Primacy" Compiled by Christopher Lancaster , , July 2005 A Greek scholar like yourself, please read his material.
You deny Scripture (again)
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
This verse says the Hebrew is written into another tongue. DUH, but you deny this.
D"SIN is NOT an offering to GOD – anyone who says so is a disciple of satan R" BUT I didn't say that did I?
D"Please give me the Biblical definition for BEAST R" Da 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
A beast used as a SIMILE is a power or kingdom that has a ruler ruling with power over humans who are subjected to this ruling power.
Rp" Obviously this animal creature has really higher powers of intellect D" YEP – AGREE R" Than the serpent also is capable of moral sins, like humans can? But you deny this idea? Why?
If archons have arum higher powers of intellect, why can't they morally sin Dave? Jesus said they lie and murder, and these are moral sins arn''t they?
Please explain, why you don't have morally sinning creatures apart from humans? You deny the false elohiym powers in the moral law, that obviously morally sin.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 10, 2022 18:01:58 GMT -5
D" You play too many word games – you cannot tell the difference between “earth” and “EARTH” R" OH so there is a difference in these words is there?
earth 1. the planet on which we live; the world. "the diversity of life on earth" 2. the substance of the land surface; soil. "a layer of earth" Similar: soil, topsoil, loam, clay, silt, dirt, sod, clod, turf, ground, terrain
Gen 1:1 = earth – all physical creation Gen 1:9 = Our Planet Earth ---------------------------
"What is the difference between Pneumia and pneumia" ? My answer is none, same word.
spir·it 1. the nonphysical part of a person which is the seat of emotions and character; the soul. "we seek a harmony between body and spirit" Similar: soul, psyche, inner self, inner being, essential being, pneuma, anima, ego, id, ka atman Opposite: body, flesh
the nonphysical part of a person - the soul. (as I teach) Opposite to biology (which is what you teach)
2. those qualities regarded as forming the definitive or typical elements in the character of a person, nation, or group or in the thought and attitudes of a particular period. Similar: ethos, prevailing tendency, motivating force, animating principle, dominating characteristic, essence, quintessence, atmosphere, mood, feeling, temper, tenor, climate, attitudes, beliefs, principles, standards, ethics
School spirit was high – the spirit of the law
Pneumia – with a capital P use as a proper noun = the Holy Spirit -----------------------------
D"There is no second creation – no second creator R" So the Creator is only allowed to create ONCE? INCREMENTAL CREATION UNTIL DAY 7 ----------------------------
D" Gen 1:31 So God saw everything that He made, and behold it was very good. R" Since when is this darkness created? It plainly says the darkness was already there There was nothing before Gen 1:1 – only God
R" Since when is this darkness created R” And the darkness that GOD created CAN YOU MAKE UP YOU MIND? You live by contradiction – you say one thing to support your satan as a a god – then say the opposite to defend your satan as a god ---------------------
D"THIS IS NOT YOUR TEACHING You say sin from you satan angel changed everything (affecting everything) for the man– all DNA changed for all plants and animals R" You assume to misquote my view. Satan did not need to change all the DNA of animals and plants, maybe a few only? NOT A FEW – NOT ANY – NO ONE EVER CHANGED GOD’s CREATION AGAINST GOD’s WILL ---------------------------
D"Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Separation event Your proof that that this separation event = ra
R" Notice the things your view teaches (1) The WAR began as soon as CREATION began.- Yes Rev 12:1-2 = birth of creation and the beast appeared Rev 12:3 (2) natural entropy began as soon as Creation began YES – entropy is a by-product / inherent to physicality (3) God created the light and the darkness, according to you Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (4) For some reason messengers fought during the start of the creation, but we are not told why the fighting? Because the Beast was created with some matter and belongs within physical creation (5) Creation requires lots of separations for RA? As soon as the first star ignited – it was destined to burn out = entropy Molten fluid planets – cooling into rock = entropy ---------------------------
What is RA? The word "chata" comes in verb and noun forms. OK WORD MAN – which word are you defining – ra or chata (sin) ----------------------
Ge 13:13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly. This verse defines RA, as something that arises from chata , that humans do, ie sin badly before the Lord. Gen 13:13 and the men of Sodom are evil, and sinners before Jehovah exceedingly. YES – evil and sinners
Nowhere does torah teach RA is a natural object, in contrast the Bible teaches RA is a consequence of SIN Quote your verse
You do not agree the WAR in heaven is about SINNING? Please make up your mind You preach contradiction ------------------------------
D"Psa 19:2 + Rom 1:19-20 – witness to God’s Hndiwork You claim God’s creation is flawed You teach God wanted to make a tov world – but your satan stopped God – thwarted God’s Plan against God’s Will You tech God is weak and must change and respond to you powerful satan god R" you speak ARUM, twisting your own view to confuse me and mock me.
I quote your teaching back to you - and it confuses you IT SHOULD - YOU CONFUSES EVERYONE – you are NOT consistant ---------------------------
D" I have posted for you the Hebrew study on this – obviously it was too hard for you to read R" you are kidding, a Jewish detailed account on the invented word twisting game of yester, RA and leb with machashabah, does not exist.
Correct – you require Judaism and Jewish Theology to be error to protect your Ellen White doctrine
Ge 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually
Tell me how your verse relates to: (yester ra) Gen 1:28 And God blesseth them, and God saith to them, 'Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it, and rule over fish of the sea, and over fowl of the heavens, and over every living thing that is creeping upon the earth.' -------------------
D"Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. R" WHY does GOD create darkness and create evil? Answer this question Dave? God allows ignorance – or Eve would have never transgressed Evil comes from the heart of man – selfishness – want – lust - desire – greed ----------------------------
When a creature wishes to sin, does GOD respond to the sinner? Please answer the question Dave? Gen 2:17 and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it—dying thou dost die.'
mûth mûth – have you forgotten already ------------------------------
RP" DO the RA archon creatures still exist to tempt humans to sin, in the next creation Dave? D" Only if you deny scripture R" Dear readers, in Dave's confusion, he actually answers NO, the archons do not exist in the NEXT creation?
OK so why did GOD create such animals in the FIRST creation?
Authoritative Teaching And before anything came into being, it was the Father alone who existed, before the worlds that are in the heavens appeared, or the world that is on the earth, or principality, or authority, or the powers. [...] appear [...] and [...] And nothing came into being without his wish.
He, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear, and make all those who contend leave behind the things that had come into being, and despise them with a lofty, incomprehensible knowledge, and flee to the one who exists.
And (as for) those who contend with us, being adversaries who contend against us, we are to be victorious over their ignorance through our knowledge, since we have already known the Inscrutable One from whom we have come forth. We have nothing in this world, lest the authority of the world that has come into being should detain us in the world -----------------------------
D"So confusing – you just said R" Darkness is NOT SIN Now you say is was all sin – please make up your mind R"You confuse SIN and SIN as a consequence. What type of religious babble is this? ---------------------------
D"NO PROOF IT WAS WRITTEN IN HEBREW and then translated R" SO you deny Jeff Benner ABSOLUTELY DENY
The agl/NT was written to the Gentile – who knew Greek Why would God write the Gospel in a language that not even all the Jews could read? The Gospel is NOT a secret ---------------------
D"SIN is NOT an offering to GOD – anyone who says so is a disciple of satan R" BUT I didn't say that did I?
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Post by Dave on Dec 11, 2022 12:35:50 GMT -5
So – volcanos are a result of sin Doesn’t this lead to sacrifices to the volcano god – to keep the volcano happy
So – earthquakes are a result of sin What about storms – tornados – hurricanes - rain – Pagan man spent centuries sacrificing to these ‘other gods’ that can manipulate nature
For the earth to cool into the planet we know today was a sin Why do you suggest God created using sin
Did the stars ignite because of sin
Is it a sin for a star to eventually burn out Every person on planet earth could be a spirit filled Christian – and the sun will still burn out
If you lite a candle - it will eventually transmute into smoke and eventually burn out You teach that withour your satan corrupting everything the world would not function
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2022 16:27:20 GMT -5
Greetings Dave So you support polysemy. Erets has different meanings? In Gen 1:1 erets refers to ALL of CREATION, all the other planets and stars, physical creation And in Gen 1:9 erets refes to only the dry land GOD called earth Ge 1:16 ....he made the stars <kowkab> also. This verse tells me the other stars and planets were not made until day 4, so again you do not follow Scripture at all. You have all planets and stars created along with earth on day one, this idea is false. ---------------------Dave uses secular means to define "pneumia" the nonphysical part of a person - the soul. (as I teach) Opposite to biology (which is what you teach) School spirit was high – the spirit of the law
Pneumia – with a capital P use as a proper noun = the Holy Spirit
R" You actually agree that it is OK to use lower s and capital S ? Really Dave, swayed by the world and the secular defintions of words. You do not support sola scriptoria. The word pneumia has one meaning only " medium" and this fits all verses, both OT and NT, as the word "ruwach". IF GOD administrates "medium" we can have 3 contexts of "medium" Naturally an administrated medium can be "wind" A medium administrated by the SHADDAY can be the "Holy Spirit" A medium administrated by the HS can be the "character development within man" ------------------------------ D"There is no second creation – no second creator R" So the Creator is only allowed to create ONCE? D" INCREMENTAL CREATION UNTIL DAY 7
R" Not what I asked for Dave? Can't you answer the questions put before you? I asked you why GOD has only ever created ONCE? ---------------------- D" NOT A FEW – NOT ANY – NO ONE EVER CHANGED GOD’s CREATION AGAINST GOD’s WILLR" Another verse you deny Mt 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. Mt 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; Really hard to understand isn't it Dave, plain reading of Scripture. SO how can weeds become weeds which the Devil sows if all plants were created very functional by GOD? The verses also term the SHAD as an enemy of GOD. Duh. --------------------- You went through all my 5 points and agreed to them all. I pity your Gnostic view of creation. D"Yes Rev 12:1-2 So GOD cannot create with a WAR as well? D"YES – entropy is a by-product SO GOD cannot create without entropy as well? D"As soon as the first star ignited – it was destined to burn out = entropy Wow, so much chaos and order with disorder Dave? ----------------------- RP" What is RA? The word "chata" comes in verb and noun forms. D" OK WORD MAN – which word are you defining – ra or chata (sin)---------------------- RP" Ge 13:13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly. RP" This verse defines RA, as something that arises from chata , that humans do, ie sin badly before the Lord. D" Gen 13:13 and the men of Sodom are evil, and sinners before Jehovah exceedingly. YES – evil and sinnersRP" Nowhere does torah teach RA is a natural object, in contrast the Bible teaches RA is a consequence of SIN D" Quote your verse
R" you don't read my sentences do you Dave? The verse I quoted is above, I was defining RA, it says so, and I also explain chata, the word paralleled to RA. Therefore RA always comes from previous sin. RA is a consequence of SIN. ----------------------------- RP" WHY does GOD create darkness and create evil? Answer this question Dave? D" G od allows ignorance – or Eve would have never transgressed Evil comes from the heart of man – selfishness – want – lust - desire – greedR' Again you deny Scripture. Bogus idea Dave. Eve said she was deceived by the serpent, not ignorant of her own yester ra within her. Ge 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. Beguiled .... Ob 1:3 The pride <zadown> of thine heart <leb> hath deceived <nasha'> thee, Notice pride emerges when you sin from your heart, not this so called yester ra concept. ---------------------- D "ABSOLUTELY DENY
The agl/NT was written to the Gentile – who knew Greek Why would God write the Gospel in a language that not even all the Jews could read?R" A Jew is not allowed to speak or write Greek, only speak and write Hebrew, according to Joesphesus. The Gentiles went to Jewish churches to hear sermons in Hebrew. Paul was a Jew and he wrote in Hebrew, later it was translated to Greek. Don't bother reading the study I gave you to read, stick to your world view, it really serves you well. ----------------------- D"SIN is NOT an offering to GOD – anyone who says so is a disciple of satan R" BUT I didn't say that did I? D” Rom 5:12 So then, just as "sin-offering" came into the world through one man and death through "sin-offering", in the same way death spread to all men because all "sinned"..R" WHere is your discussion Dave? ------------------------ D" So – volcanos are a result of sin Doesn’t this lead to sacrifices to the volcano god – to keep the volcano happyR" RA is a consequence of sin. volcanoes is a consequence of Adam's sin. And GOD curses the ground, hence entropy arises causing volcanoes. D" So – earthquakes are a result of sin What about storms – tornados – hurricanes R" Many of these are man made thesedays, we can causes havoc with frequency generators. D" Is it a sin for a star to eventually burn outR" SIN is a moral decision of a mind with reason. Stars cannot do this, so the RA you see is "happening because GOD cursed His Creation was Adam sinned" In the next Creation stars will give light forever without consuming anything, no mass is used up. RP"Nowhere does torah teach RA is a natural object, in contrast the Bible teaches RA is a consequence of SIN D" Quote your verseRP" Ge 13:13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly. RP" This verse defines RA, as something that arises from chata , that humans do, ie sin badly before the Lord. R" I did already. Dave can't read very well. SHalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 12, 2022 6:00:29 GMT -5
In Gen 1:1 erets refers to ALL of CREATION, all the other planets and stars, physical creation And in Gen 1:9 erets refes to only the dry land GOD called earth Ge 1:16 ....he made the stars <kowkab> also. This verse tells me the other stars and planets were not made until day 4, so again you do not follow Scripture at all. You have all planets and stars created along with earth on day one, this idea is false. WHY DO YOU THINK IT RESPECTFULL TO MISSREPRESENT OTHERS? – or is this just an outright lie? SO SICK OF YOUR GAME PLAY … It must be your hobby to attack Judeo-Christianity it is you mission to corrupt scripture as much as possible – and you do not even try to have an intelligent discussion
Gen 1:1 God made all the spirit realms (10 heavens) and substance of 3D physical reality And God placed LAWS of Nature over the substance of 3D physical reality Correct – stars and planets were not created on Day 1 – the LAWS of NATURE formed these things in their own time IN FACT – stars and planets are formed this very day – it is NOT new creation it is just a rearrangement (transmutation) of what God created on Day 1 --------------------------------------- Spirit = the nonphysical part of a person - the soul. (as I teach) Opposite to biology (which is what you teach) School spirit was high – the spirit of the law Pneumia – with a capital P use as a proper noun = the Holy Spirit R" You actually agree that it is OK to use lower s and capital S ? Why do we spell Robert with a capital R Why do you write Dave with a capital D ANSWER = Proper Nouns - GRAMMARDave uses secular means to define "pneumia" The only way you are even close to being correct – is everyone else in the world has to be wrong------------------------------------ Naturally an administrated medium can be "wind" A medium administrated by the SHADDAY can be the "Holy Spirit" A medium administrated by the HS can be the "character development within man" So you support polysemy - different meanings?Wind – Holy Spirit and the spirit of man ורוח אלהים = Spirit of God - 415 matches in 89 verses רוח אישׁ = Spirit of man – 16 matches in 40 verses So you support polysemy. elohiym mean – only the creator – or Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty. www.citizencafetlv.com/archive/15-hebrew-words-that-have-weird-double-meanings/15 Hebrew Words That Have Weird Double MeaningsHebrew is an ancient language, and it has resulted in many words having multiple meanings. ------------------------------ D"NOT A FEW – NOT ANY – NO ONE EVER CHANGED GOD’s CREATION AGAINST GOD’s WILL R" Another verse you deny Mt 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. Mt 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; Really hard to understand isn't it Dave, plain reading of Scripture. EASY – the Beast is the master of this world
SO how can weeds become weeds which the Devil sows if all plants were created very functional by GOD? Adam planted corn and thorny roses grew instead – some weedsThe verses also term the SHAD as an enemy of GOD. Duh. Where? Your assumption isn’t even scripturalGen 3:17 Then to the man He said, “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate of the tree which I commanded you, saying, ‘You must not eat of it’: Cursed is the ground because of you—with pain will you eat of it all the days of your life. Gen 3:18 Thorns and thistles will sprout for you. You will eat the plants of the field, Gen 3:19 By the sweat of your brow will you eat food, until you return to the ground, since from it were you taken. For you are dust, and to dust will you return.” The SHAD opposes man – ordained – established – put in motion – BY GOD---------------------------------- "Yes Rev 12:1-2 So GOD cannot create with a WAR as well? Skirmish – quarrel – disagreement - bustel
"YES – entropy is a by-product SO GOD cannot create without entropy as well? It is called balance in nature------------------------ RP" Nowhere does torah teach RA is a natural object, in contrast the Bible teaches RA is a consequence of SIND" Quote your verse H7451 – רָעָה רַע ra‛ râ‛âh From H7489; bad or (as noun) evil ( naturally or morally). My search for ra’ www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/=ra%E2%80%9B&stp=1ra‛ - redirects to:YEẒER HA-RA': (Redirected from LUST.) Evil inclination or impulse, popularly identified with the lusts of the flesh. The idea is derived from Gen. viii. 21: "the imagination of the heart of man is evil from his youth." My search for ra’ ah www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/ =ra%CC%82%E2%80%9Ba%CC%82h&stp=1 râ‛âh – redirects to:YEẒER HA-RA': Evil inclination or impulse, popularly identified with the lusts of the flesh. The idea is derived from Gen. viii. 21: "the imagination of the heart of man is evil from his youth." Gen 13:13 and the men of Sodom are evil, and sinners before Jehovah exceedingly. YES – evil and sinners The verse I quoted is above, I was defining RA, it says so, and I also explain chata, the word paralleled to RA. Therefore RA always comes from previous sin. RA is a consequence of SIN. This verse proves that (yester a) leads to aven / sin------------------------- D"SIN is NOT an offering to GOD – anyone who says so is a disciple of satan R" BUT I didn't say that did I? D” Rom 5:12 So then, just as "sin-offering" came into the world through one man and death through "sin-offering", in the same way death spread to all men because all "sinned".. R" WHere is your discussion Dave? "SIN is NOT an offering to GOD – anyone who says so is a disciple of satan---------------------------------- The agl/NT was written to the Gentile – who knew Greek Why would God write the Gospel in a language that not even all the Jews could read? R" A Jew is not allowed to speak or write Greek, only speak and write Hebrew, according to Joesphesus. Where is you documentation? I doubt your truthfulness - Christian(google)Spoken in ancient times in Palestine, Hebrew was supplanted by the western dialect of Aramaic beginning about the 3rd century bce; the language continued to be used as a liturgical and literary language, however. It was revived as a spoken language in the 19th and 20th centuries and is the official language of Israel. Alexander and the Jews - Aish.comhttps://aish.com › ... › hanukkah › Themes › History May 9, 2009 — He banned the teaching and practice of Judaism, as well as, banning spoken Hebrew in public. The book of the Maccabees (probably written by a Jewish chronicler in the early first ---------------------------- D"So – volcanos are a result of sin Doesn’t this lead to sacrifices to the volcano god – to keep the volcano happy D"So – earthquakes are a result of sin What about storms – tornados – hurricanes R" RA is a consequence of sin. volcanoes is a consequence of Adam's sin. And GOD curses the ground, hence entropy arises causing volcanoes. OK – what sin existed before Adam that allowed Earth to form There was no sin before Eve Rom 5:13 For up until the Torah, sin was in the world; but sin does not count as sin when there is no law. ---------------------------- D"Is it a sin for a star to eventually burn out R" SIN is a moral decision of a mind with reason. Stars cannot do this, so the RA you see is "happening because GOD cursed His Creation was Adam sinned" So – are stars burning out a NATURAL ra?RP"Nowhere does torah teach RA is a natural object, What of the 10 plagues – all done by God – you teach that your god is a sinner
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2022 16:26:03 GMT -5
Greetings Dave D" MISSREPRESENT OTHERS? R" I do not do this, you said yourself you goofed, but are too proud to admit this D" Correct – stars and planets were not created on Day 1
R" Than you have to add the evolution theory into God' creation theory with this idea D" IN FACT – stars and planets are formed this very day – it is NOT new creation it is just a rearrangement (transmutation) of what God created on Day 1R" I used to think evolution was much the same as God's creation, now I have abandoned this idea, both theories of faith are very different from each other. God begins with the solid fluid ball making light come over pre-existing darkness (a point you do not acknowledge), making the solid fluid ball, into more fluid again, separating the fluid from fluid. Again this is only for this small planet in space. Than God speaks the dry land to arise from the fluid, and within seconds the granite rocks are set into place. Only by day 4 do we see GOD creating stars and other planets, (not from stuff already created in the first three days as you claim) what you are doing is mixing stella evolution into God's creation over this solid fluid ball. I used to think much like you, nowadays I don't. D" SO SICK OF YOUR GAME PLAY … It must be your hobby to attack Judeo-ChristianityR" People have different views and opinions, Dave, I do not mock your view, even though it is different to mine. But at least try to follow Scripture when Scripture says something clearly. D" ANSWER = Proper Nouns - GRAMMARR" Dave you are a Greek scholar, the GREEK was originally written all in capital letter without spaces or fullstops. Come on and make a serious discussion? Am I speaking truth here, that Greek and Hebrew does not have capital letters? D" The only way you are even close to being correct – is everyone else in the world has to be wrongR" You are the Greek scholar, you tell me. How does one know the difference between a proper noun and a common noun in Hebrew? Some say the common noun do not have prefix or suffix, this idea is wrong too. Notice Noah (common noun for comfort) has suffix, so how does one know it's a proper noun? To a layman you don't know. Hebrew named people after verbs, like Jesus is named yasha, the one who saves. Or Noah, the one who comforts. D" So you support polysemy - different meanings? Wind – Holy Spirit and the spirit of manR" O boy, don't you agree words also get nuances of meaning from context? The word means "medium" but from context there are three "medium" nuances we can derive, the "wind medium" "the HS as a medium" and "man receiving or developing as a medium his character" Polysemy is where you have a word with different meanings. I try to not have any in Hebrew. Jeff Benner makes "ab" mean either "father" or "fruit". I see "ab" meaning "provider" for all verses. Ge 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, Here is perhaps a polysemy word "lechem" Ex 1:10 Come on, let us deal wisely with them; lest they multiply, and it come to pass, that, when there falleth out any war, they join also unto our enemies, and fight against us, "lacham" Jeff Benner 305) 1LP (1LP LHhM) ac: Fight co: Bread ab: ?: Flour an water are mixed together and kneaded. Also war in the sense of fighting with the bread when kneading. [from: QL - food] V) 1LP (1LP L-HhM) — I. Eat: II. Fight: [freq. 177] (vf: Paal, Niphal) |kjv: fight, war, eat, overcome, devour, prevail| {str: 3898} Nm) 1LP (1LP L-HhM) — I. R" so when you make dough, you punch and fight with it, hence the other meaning, in the noun sense, to fight. It's a difficult one, so yes polysemy does exist in a few words in Hebrew. Perhaps we fail to understand the Hebrew? R" Your link to 15 weird Hebrew words is secular link, not Hebrew torah link, Please stick to sola scriptoria--------------------------------- RP" Mt 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. Mt 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; Really hard to understand isn't it Dave, plain reading of Scripture.D" EASY – the Beast is the master of this worldRP" SO how can weeds become weeds which the Devil sows if all plants were created very functional by GOD?D" Adam planted corn and thorny roses grew instead – some weedsRP" The verses also term the SHAD as an enemy of GOD. Duh.D" Where? Your assumption isn’t even scripturalR" I am amazed how you cannot see torah plainly to your face, are you blind? Mt 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. Mt 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; It says an enemy sowed the weeds. It says an enemy who sowed them is the SHAD. Now I suppose you could say the SHAD just took natural weeds and sowed them in the ground, and did not change the DNA or certain plants and thus engineer weeds by spoiling there DNA inside. Hmm? You might have a point, but where is Dave's discussion? You never write any? Ps 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. Here is an idea of borning "aven" and "mischief" done by wicked humans. Isa 59:4 None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity. 5 They hatch cockatrice' eggs, and weave the spider's web: he that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out into a viper. 6 Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover themselves with their works: their works are works of iniquity, and the act of violence is in their hands. 7 Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity; R" The wicked humans born "aven" seeds of epi-genetic propensities, that affect the "thoughts" and the "ra" within the "thoughts", very close to your Jewish yester ra idea, but coming from "aven" the genetic seeds of propensities we sow, or born within us. Now do these ideas also relate to the SHAD? 2Ki 17:17 And they caused their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire, and used divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger. The Hebrew word "nachash" also stems from "serpent" Jeff Benner does not have an entry from 5175, only 5172? Bother. D"Gen 3:18 Thorns and thistles will sprout for you. You will eat the plants of the field, R" Suggests the weeds came naturally from GOD cursing the ground. or from the SHAD spoiling the plants, how can we know which idea? Isa 14:29 Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent. The serpent was originally a "flying burning", something similar to cherubs that fly? Isa 27:1 ¶ In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea. 2 In that day sing ye unto her, A vineyard of red wine. 3 I the LORD do keep it; I will water it every moment: lest any hurt it, I will keep it night and day. 4 Fury is not in me: who would set the briers and thorns against me in battle? I would go through them, I would burn them together. Poetry again, confuses the reader, like Dave. Notice the SIMILES of weeds and the mention of the serpent. R" Hmm? difficult study. I will get back to you on this idea. D"" Yes Rev 12:1-2 So GOD cannot create with a WAR as well? Skirmish – quarrel – disagreement - bustelR" I thought GOD was a god of peace, not war? D" ra‛ - redirects to: YEẒER HA-RA': R" Jewish taking over torah? ------------------------------------- Rob quotes all the Hebrew in the verse Ge 13:13 But the men <'enowsh> of Sodom <C@dom> were wicked <ra`> and sinners <chatta'> before the LORD <Y@hovah> exceedingly <m@`od>. D" This verse proves that (yester a) leads to aven / sinR" Dave, the verse I speak about does not contain yester ra, nor contain aven. You goofed again. The verse has "humans" and "ra" and "chata" telling us that humans who SIN also do RA, the consequence of their SINNINGS. D" " SIN is NOT an offering to GOD – anyone who says so is a disciple of satanR" Dave you are misapplying my translation Rom 5:12 So then, just as "sin-offering" came into the world through one man and death through "sin-offering", in the same way death spread to all men because all "sinned".. This word "chataah" means to make a sacrifice for your sins and confess your sinning unto the sacrifice, so the sacrifice can atone for your sinning. It's a type of placing your confessions unto a sin bearer, called Jesus who takes away the sin-offerings of the world by his sacrifice for sin. Some say Jesus died the death penalty all humans have to die for sinning. So by eating of the fruit, the penalty for this is non-existence, the second death. Where does Scripture speak of somebody else dying for your sins, in your stead, and exchanging your dying for somebody else's living? I stand corrected, but I cannot find an OT or NT Bible verse for this idea? Ex 29:36 And thou shalt offer <`asah> every day <yowm> a bullock <par> for a sin offering <chatta'ah> for atonement <kippur>: and thou shalt cleanse <chata'> the altar <mizbeach>, when thou hast made an atonement <kaphar> for it, and thou shalt anoint <mashach> it, to sanctify <qadash> it. R"Strange verse, the bull is a chattaah (sin-offering) for your confessed sins of chata (missing) for atonement (kippur) when thou "cleanse" (the opposite meaning for missing) WOW, using a "sin" word in its opposite meaning. Le 16:10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement "kappar" (different word here, meaning COVER) with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness. 11 And Aaron shall bring the bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and shall make an atonement for himself, and for his house, and shall kill the bullock of the sin offering which is for himself: KJV translates chattaah correctly as "sin-offering" R" But why does this "chattaah" process exist as an "atonement" for sins? and why did Jesus have to die as an "chattaah" ? D"" SIN is NOT an offering to GOD – anyone who says so is a disciple of satanR" I would agree with that, but your brevity is scary, one does not know anything about your view. And my view is not much clearer either. so some things too hard are best left alone. D" Where is you documentation? I doubt your truthfulness - ChristianR" Try reading Jeff Benner www.ancient-hebrew.org/semitic-origins/index.htmHere www.ancient-hebrew.org/semitic-origins/archaeological-evidence-of-a-semitic-new-testament.htmHere www.ancient-hebrew.org/semitic-origins/semitic-origins-of-the-book-of-matthew.htmHere www.ancient-hebrew.org/semitic-origins/textual-evidence-of-a-hebrew-origin-for-the-new-testament.htmJust to link a few for you D" I doubt your truthfulness R" Read Jeff's material yourself D" OK – what sin existed before Adam that allowed Earth to form There was no sin before EveR" Who says GOD needed volcanoes to make the dry land appear out of the solid fluid? We can surmise? D" So – are stars burning out a NATURAL ra?R" The stars are wearing out, burning out, as we understand this idea, yes, as a result of Adam's sin, when GOD cursed the entire creation. In the next creation, stars never burn out, do not make light as we assume they make light. D" What of the 10 plagues – all done by God – you teach that your god is a sinnerR" THis came about after SIN, not before SIN, so GOD uses consequences of SIN to make a point about humans worshipping the consequences of SIN as "gods". You never answered my questions in the next creation Does night exist with light? Does death exist with natural living, ie natural dying? Does friction exist as entropy along with natural walking? Does the archon as a creature of arum exist visibly on earth like other animals? How come this so called animal is not visible on earth? Why the secrecy thing? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 13, 2022 12:26:36 GMT -5
D"MISSREPRESENT OTHERS? R" I do not do this, The depth of your disrespect is staggering – I have been more than patient with you I teach Nebular Theory (Immanuel Kant 1754) → Objects attract (Isaac Newton 1666) → Standard Planet Formation Theory (Camren 1962) → WEDD (Herndon 2005) → INCREMENTAL CREATION (2011) → FD-WEDT (2006)
Evidences by Psa 19:2 + Rom 1:19-20 – and all empirical data –scientific or scripture
I even made a video for you – that you called boring
You refuse to comment on these verses because they do not support your view These verses say – it is all God’s Handiwork You disagree – claiming it is evidence of the flawed world of your satan god Rom 1 – then say – for your disbelief homosexuality will spread throughout the land So you must say that homosexuality is from satan WRONG AGAIN – IT IS THE HAND OF GOD
Because you refuse to address this passage and offer an intelligent response I am done with this topic with you If you post any more disrespectful comments – I will just delete it ---------------------------------------
D"ANSWER = Proper Nouns - GRAMMAR R" Dave you are a Greek scholar, the GREEK was originally written all in capital letter without spaces or fullstops. Come on and make a serious discussion? LEARN TO TRANSLATE
D"The only way you are even close to being correct – is everyone else in the world has to be wrong R" You are the Greek scholar, you tell me. How does one know the difference between a proper noun and a common noun in Hebrew? LEARN TO TRANSLATE – LEARN GRAMMAR AND SYNTAX ---------------------------------
RP"Mt 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. Mt 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; Really hard to understand isn't it Dave, plain reading of Scripture. D" EASY – the Beast is the master of this world
RP" SO how can weeds become weeds which the Devil sows if all plants were created very functional by GOD? D" Adam planted corn and thorny roses grew instead – some weeds
What is a weed – anything that grows where you don’t want it
RP" The verses also term the SHAD as an enemy of GOD. Duh. D" Where? Your assumption isn’t even scriptural R" I am amazed how you cannot see torah plainly to your face, are you blind?
Mt 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. Mt 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil;
It says an enemy sowed the weeds. It says an enemy who sowed them is the SHAD.
Now I suppose you could say the SHAD just took natural weeds and sowed them in the ground, and did not change the DNA or certain plants and thus engineer weeds by spoiling there DNA inside.
1- Gen 1:11 Then God said, “Let the land sprout grass, green plants yielding seed, fruit trees making fruit, each according to its species with seed in it, upon the land.” And it happened so. Gen 1:12 The land brought forth grass, green plants yielding seed, each according to its species, and trees making fruit with the seed in it, each according to its species. And God saw that it was good.
2- Gen 3:17 Then to the man He said, “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate of the tree which I commanded you, saying, ‘You must not eat of it’: Cursed is the ground because of you—with pain will you eat of it all the days of your life. Gen 3:18 Thorns and thistles will sprout for you. You will eat the plants of the field, Gen 3:19 By the sweat of your brow will you eat food, until you return to the ground, since from it were you taken. For you are dust, and to dust will you return.”
God never made weeds – He made plants – some have thrones and thistles Man calls them weeds – when they grow where you don’t want them
Ordained by God – cursed by God – established by God – put in motion by God
It says an enemy sowed the weeds. – enemy of man It says an enemy who sowed them is the SHAD.- OK – IT IS WHAT THEY DO –make life hard for man so that man is focused upon the world and NOT the Holy Spirit -----------------------------
R" The wicked humans born "aven" seeds of epi-genetic propensities, that affect the "thoughts" and the "ra" within the "thoughts", very close to your Jewish yester ra idea, but coming from "aven" the genetic seeds of propensities we sow, or born within us.
You teach man is born evil (aven) wicked – WRONG Man is gifted with (yester ra) and given FREE WILL to choose to be aven – Your choice
D"ra‛ - redirects to: YEẒER HA-RA': R" Jewish taking over torah? Correct – you disagree with Jesus Christ
Mat 5:17 'Do not suppose that I came to throw down the law or the prophets—I did not come to throw down, but to fulfil; Mat 5:18 for, verily I say to you, till that the heaven and the earth may pass away, one iota or one tittle may not pass away from the law, till that all may come to pass.
Original Christianity = Messianic Judaism No one had to stop and relearn the ahl/OT – or any Jewish Teaching All they had to do is recognize Jesus Christ as the Messiah -------------------------------------
Rob quotes all the Hebrew in the verse Ge 13:13 But the men <'enowsh> of Sodom <C@dom> were wicked <ra`> and sinners <chatta'> before the LORD <Y@hovah> exceedingly <m@`od>.
D"This verse proves that (yester a) leads to aven / sin R" Dave, the verse I speak about does not contain yester ra, nor contain aven.
You goofed again. Proof you just want to play word games -------------------------------------
D" "SIN is NOT an offering to GOD – anyone who says so is a disciple of satan R" Dave you are misapplying my translation
Rom 5:12 So then, just as "sin-offering" came into the world through one man and death through "sin-offering", in the same way death spread to all men because all "sinned"..
This word "chataah" means to make a sacrifice for your sins You teach that sin and death came into this world because Adam made a sacrifice to the Lord - NONSENSE
Rom 5:12 Διὰ τοῦτο ὥσπερ δι᾿ ἑνὸς ἀνθρώπου ἡ ἁμαρτία εἰς τὸν κόσμον εἰσῆλθεν καὶ διὰ τῆς ἁμαρτίας ὁ θάνατος, καὶ οὕτως εἰς πάντας ἀνθρώπους ὁ θάνατος διῆλθεν, ἐφ᾿ ᾧ πάντες ἥμαρτον· -
G266 - ἁμαρτία hamartia From G264; sin (properly abstract): - offence, sin (-ful).
D""SIN is NOT an offering to GOD – anyone who says so is a disciple of satan --------------------------------
D"Where is you documentation? I doubt your truthfulness - Christian R" Try reading Jeff Benner You quoted Josephus – where is you documentation I ask you A – you respond with B Be honest are admit you just make up stuff -------------------
D"What of the 10 plagues – all done by God – you teach that your god is a sinner R" THis came about after SIN, not before SIN, so GOD uses consequences of SIN to make a point about humans worshipping the consequences of SIN as "gods". Why don’t you even know the story – Christian – GOD HARDENED PHARAOH’s HEART
You never answered my questions - get use to it DITTO – over and over – so many unanswered questions by you
In America we have an expression – ‘what goes around comes around’
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2022 14:16:20 GMT -5
By Jeff A. Benner
The book of Maccabees, one of the books of the Apocrypha, tells the story of the Jewish Revolt about 150 years before the time of the New Testament. The Greeks, led by Antiochus Epiphanes, conquered the land of Israel and forced the Jews to leave their national heritage and the Torah and begin following the Greek culture. Because of the Jews hatred for all things Hellenistic, including the culture and language, Judah Maccabee led a revolt against Antiochus Epiphanes, both expelling the Greeks and slaughtering those Jews that had adopted the Greek language and culture. This revolt demonstrates the Jewish hatred of the Hellistic culture and the incorrect assumption that the Jews freely adopted the Greek language during the time of the New Testament.
Josephus
Josephus was a first-century Jewish historian who recorded Jewish life and sentiment during the time of the New Testament. In his work Antiquity of the Jews he writes "I have also taken a great deal of pains to obtain the learning of the Greeks, and understanding the elements of the Greek language although I have so long accustomed myself to speak our own language that I cannot pronounce Greek with sufficient exactness: for our nation does not encourage those that learn the languages of many nations". (Josephus, Ant.20.11.2)
R" The quotation by Josephus plus much more I gave to you from Jeff Benner, but you are not willing to read the links.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 13, 2022 23:21:49 GMT -5
R" The quotation by Josephus plus much more I gave to you from Jeff Benner, but you are not willing to read the links.What – you expected me to spend my time with multiple web-sites to find your quote?Now that you finally offered up one answer – Finally – At Last the incorrect assumption that the Jews freely adopted the Greek language during the time of the New Testament.What does your factoid have to do with my statement?(google) What languages were spoken in Jesus time? This is generally agreed upon by historians. Aramaic was the common language of Judea in the first century AD. The villages of Nazareth and Capernaum in Galilee, where Jesus spent most of his time, were Aramaic-speaking communities. (wiki) Hebrew ceased to be a regular spoken language sometime between 200 and 400 CE, declining in the aftermath of the unsuccessful Bar Kokhba revolt that was carried out against the Roman Empire by the Jews of Judaea.[14][15][note 2] Aramaic and, to a lesser extent, Greek were already in use as international languages, especially among societal elites and immigrants. Which Jews knew their Hebrew Answer - (google) Similar to Latin today, Hebrew was the chosen language for religious scholars and the holy scriptures, including the Bible (although some of the Old Testament was written in Aramaic). Jesus likely understood Hebrew, though his everyday life would have been conducted in Aramaic. ------------------------------ Addition IF – you were a real student of the agl/NT You would ask the obvious question – why wasn’t the Gospel written to the Arabs (Chaldeans) Instead – The target audience was Greek speaking Gentiles Answer – Gentiles are the lost 10 tribes if the Northern Kingdom The tribes of the Northern Kingdom were lost in two waves 1- The Phoenicians – that moved across the Mediterranean 2- After Babylon – only Benjamin and Judah returned to Judea The rest escaped north over the Caucus Mountains – to populate Caucasian Scandinavia – Caucasian Russia – Caucasian Europe and the British Isles → which then spread Christianity to Caucasian Western Roman Christendom 3- The reunification of the 12 Tribes at the end – the remarriage God's Divorce and Remarriage And The Restoration of Israel ... www.douglashamp.com › Bible Interpretation Aug 7, 2015 — Now free from the curse of her broken marriage covenant, Israel could actually remarry without being called an adulteress. However, how could ... GOD'S COVENANT WITH ISRAEL, JUDAH AND THE CHURCH tyndalebulletin.org › article › 30380-three-... by DI Brewer · Cited by 27 — The marriage to Israel ended in divorce and the marriage to ]udah suffered a period of separation.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2022 15:09:38 GMT -5
D" What does your factoid have to do with my statement?
R" Nothing Dave, that is why you posted the question. So, I reply with the answer you seek, in case you delete my message to you. You choose not to read Jeff Benner's evidence of the Jewish people speaking Hebrew right through the centuries possibly as far as 300 AD. You also choose not to read the Hebrew torah as well. I take note of you using secular resources to make your post. It's your choice to use secular resources, truth is where-ever you find it you say, and your brevity is your style, you say, and what goes around in confusion, comes around to you as confusion, is your USA cultural saying. Your choice.
As for me, and my house; as a learner from Jeff Benner, my teacher, I chose to read his material and be learned by it. I do not have to learn to translate, as Jeff Benner teaches me the Hebrew material very well. I found you at Jeff Benner's forum, I was hoping to find others who also liked and loved Jeff Benner's material, but I have now discovered you are not a student of Jeff Benner either. While I may not agree with everything Jeff says, at least I remain loyal to him and his material. I suggest you begin reading Jeff Benner's material and learn what the Hebrew torah is all about. Do not trust your secular material like you do.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 14, 2022 16:21:59 GMT -5
Cool – Join his forum I was an active full member there for 8 years
Oh ya – you did join us there and he shut it down – interesting
Too bad Jeff Brenner does not teach you how to answer questions So many unanswered questions by you – either you do not have the answers – or the questions I ask expose Ellen White as a satanic disciple – so you are afraid to commit
I do not trust your secular material like you do. Because all the evidence - all the facts - all the data is inconsistant with your satanology So of course - all the world must be wrong - to maintian Ellen White in the right
If your theology canont stand scrutiny - just how complete is it? and he cannot decide for himself which one is superiour
EXPOSED BIG TIME - SDA ELLEN WHITE SATANOLOGY IS A REPLACEMENT CHRISTIANITY OF THE SECOND GREAT AWAKENING ALONGSIDE JEHOVAH'S WITNESS AND THE MORMON
You deny there is Only One True God You deny the concept of God incarnate You deny the spirit and the spiritual and you teach FAITH as a bunch of religious practices - law keeping
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2022 15:40:00 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
We have already shown you that your theology is supported only by Gnostic writings and NOT the Hebrew OT/NT torah.
1 John 3:8 says humans sin like the SHAD sins, and both sin moral sins.
BUT your Gnostic teachings refuse to admit SHAD do moral sins, so your teachings make the term into "ignorance" and with "yester ra" something like a natural inclination to survive and multiply, thus such creatures as cherubs and archons in your theory cannot do moral sins, they have no free will to morally sin, and thus are not accountable for any wrong doing they might do.
The SHAD are written in the royal torah, the ten commandments that no creature is to worship them as false elohiym powers, thus the SHAD morally sin. Jesus also spoke about the SHAD as a liar and a murderer, both are defined terms for moral sins. However you seem to think lying is not a moral sin.
I don't need to write anything else, because Gnostic teachings fail to account for the false elohiym powers that morally sin, that the first of the ten commandments laws apply to. Your attempt to answer this was to refer the law to humans pretending to make this claim, but the moral law was written before the first Sabbath law requirement was required, so the moral law existed on the first Sabbath Adam and Eve rested on, and thus there were no other humans around way back than, in order to become false elohiym powers. So the serpent in the Garden that tempted Eve to sin, has to be a false elohiym power, and thus by definition a morally sinning power.
But again you deny that the serpent sinned, tempting Eve to sin. Even Jeff Benner agrees the serpent sinned tempting Eve to sin, by saying that the serpent deceived Eve by twisting the truth, is the same idea as presenting a false report, which the judgements in Exodus 21 term a moral sin of lying.
Ex 23:1 ¶ Thou shalt not raise a false report:
SO speaking falsely about GOD, even twisting truth as Jeff claims, is still sinning in the eyes of the torah.
But you deny this as well.
We have been through much together, but you do not wish to change your view, which is your right to do so, nor do you acknowledge you are wrong in reading the torah as you do. There are several verses you cannot answer, despite the majority of churches understand the plain reading of the text, you claim these churches are deceived by the Roman Edit. I find you are deceived by refusing to read the simple torah verses as they read.
D"I do not trust your secular material like you do. Because all the evidence - all the facts - all the data is inconsistant with your satanology
R" There is nothing the torah cannot answer, but you deny this. I do not rely on secular material, so why did you post this? I am sola scriptoria. You are not.
On a more personal note, you did not comment on whether you have watched the videos on the fall of Cabal, episodes 25 and 26? These are great summary of the vaccine global issues and the coming world reset. We are soon to be divided into two camps, the vaccinated and the unvaccinated. So your theology has been tested and tied already, without a single mention of god.
My own SDA brethren also have fallen into the vaccination divide and sadly one has to wonder at the theology that they follow and how valued it is in their mind. We have known for 150 years this day was coming and it deceived even the SDA brethren by storm, not all of us, but many of us. So the details we discussed boil down to your practical religion of doing. Please watch the videos and become enlightened by them. For many of us restoring our own natural bodies is too late, at least we can get on track spiritually with the Lord.
Shalom
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