Ellen White - Prophet or Error? Feb 19, 2022 11:12:18 GMT -5
Post by Dave on Feb 19, 2022 11:12:18 GMT -5
Robert said - You stick to your Jewish writings and your Gnostic writings,
Daves response -Correct Judaism is the foundation of Judeo-Christian theology – not Rome - or Ellen White
Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Torah or the Prophets! I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.
Mat 5:18 Amen, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or serif shall ever pass away from the Torah until all things come to pass.
The authors of my Gnostic writing are James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas – men who actually walked and talked with Jesus Christ both before and after the resurrection
The very same authors of the agl/NT
I will stick with the torah that Rome preserved – ‘The Received Text’ -
Men like Luther, Huss, Spurgeon, Wycliffe, Tyndale, and later of course Ellen White, these early pioneers had the inspired messages of God, and demonstrate a truth worth dying for.
All post Roman Fallen Angel theology
Robert will stand with our Seventh Day keeping pioneers of the reformation.
The bases of our differences
1- (From Wikipedia) Sola scriptura
Sola scriptura, meaning by scripture alone, is a Christian theological doctrine
YES – this is Robert’s demand – if it is not in the Torah it is not true or real
This is exactly what the Inquisition said to Galileo – if he saw moons around Jupiter they must have been in his telescope (1609)
I didn’t realize there was a technical term for a larger view of reality - Prima scriptura
Sola scriptura may be contrasted with prima scriptura, which holds that, besides canonical scripture, there are other guides for what a believer should believe, and how he or she should live. Examples of this include the general revelation in creation, traditions, charismatic gifts, mystical insight, angelic visitations, conscience, common sense, the views of experts, the spirit of the times or something else. Prima scriptura suggests that ways of knowing or understanding God and his will, that do not originate from canonized scripture, are in a second place, perhaps helpful in interpreting that scripture, but testable by the canon and correctable by it, if they seem to contradict the scriptures.
Psa 19:2 The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky shows His handiwork.
Rom 1:19 because what can be known about God is plain to them—for God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 His invisible attributes—His eternal power and His divine nature—have been clearly seen ever since the creation of the world, being understood through the things that have been made. So people are without excuse—
Prima scriptura – is Gnosticism – Things only happened one way – and all thing point to that Creator
Does not matter the scale – galactic or sub-atomic – the Intelligent Design validates the Intelligent Designer
2- Dominate Mainstream Christendom = Calvinism – as my traditional Presbyterian background
Dispensation – to everything there is a time – an Age for this- followed by an Age for that
Ecc 3:1 For everything there is a season and a time for every activity under heaven:
Ecc 3:2 a time to give birth and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot what is planted;
Ecc 3:3 a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build up;
Ecc 3:4 a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance;
Ecc 3:5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather stones, a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing;
Ecc 3:6 a time to seek and a time to lose, a time to keep and a time to discard;
Ecc 3:7 a time to tear apart and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak;
Ecc 3:8 a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.
Dispensationalist at extreme say – this verse belongs to this age and that verses belongs to a different age
Predestination – we are all / many of us are / some of us are predestined for either tov or ra
Basically – God can reach down and USE any one He wants for anything he wants to facilitate God’s Will on earth – (Abraham – Joseph – Moses – Joshua – David – Solomon ----Judas – who raises up the Chaldeans at the end?)
The SDA are originally Lutheran theology based – it is all Free Will
Not sure what they teach of dispensation if at all – Robert plucks verses out from anywhere and applies they wherever he needs them – context or not
D""Amalgamation of Man and Beast": How can this be a reference to man on man – as you claim - he says man on beast
R" I think it's a reference to Genetically modified humans. We have reached this stage now, 20 years ago I didn't have a clue to what she was referring to.
I read the passage – where is your reference?
Why do you have to invent a man-made justification to twist scripture to fit your doctrine?
OK – your comments have ranged from – the son sons of Seth – to aliens from other planets created before creation – and now to GMOs
Question – who did the genetic manipulation?
2nd Question – how did these GMO bane elohiym get into heaven to present themselves to God
D"Cause of Some Volcanic Eruptions/Earthquakes: One of the causes of volcanic eruptions and earthquakes is said to be the presence of oil and coal burning below the surface of the earth. [3SG 79, 80]
Ooops! – I guess she should have stopped before she just starts making up crap
R" Can't find that reference, but here is some other writings that help:-
(1885) Subterranean Fires Burning—These mountains to me are significant. Subterranean fires, although concealed in them, are burning. When the wicked shall have filled their cup of iniquity then the Lord will rise out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth.
Why do you pretend you cannot find the source – especially when the sources is footnoted
Why do you refuse to address issues head on and honestly?
Instead of discussing Ellen White’s words – you post something different to discuss
Instead of discussing Gnostic James or John – you spent a year talking about Simon Magnus
(google search for ) [3SG 79, 80]
Spiritual Gifts. Volume 3, Ellen G. White, 1864
Before the flood there were immense forests. The trees were many times larger than any trees which we now see. They were of great durability. They would know nothing of decay for hundreds of years. At the time of the flood these forests were torn up or broken down and buried in the earth. In some places large quantities of these immense trees were thrown together and covered with stones and earth by the commotions of the flood. They have since petrified and become coal, which accounts for the large coal beds which are now found. This coal has produced oil. God causes large quantities of coal and oil to ignite and burn. Rocks are intensely heated, limestone is burned, and iron ore melted. Water and fire under the surface of the earth meet. The action of water upon the limestone adds fury to the intense heat, and causes earthquakes, volcanoes and fiery issues. The action of fire and water upon the ledges of rocks and ore, causes loud explosions which sound like muffled thunder. These wonderful exhibitions will be more numerous and terrible just before the coming of Christ and the end of the world, as signs of its speedy destruction. Coal and oil are generally to be found where there are no burning mountains or fiery issues. When fire and water under the surface of the earth meet, the fiery issues cannot give sufficient vent to the heated elements beneath. The earth is convulsed—the ground trembles, heaves, and rises into swells or waves, and there are heavy sounds like thunder underground. The air is heated and suffocating.
The earth quickly opens, and I saw villages, cities and burning mountains carried down together into the earth. God controls all these elements; they are his instruments to do his will; he calls them into action to serve his purpose.
A prophet is limited to their words and experience,
For example what is this ?
Na 2:4 Seem like motor cars to me?
How is this a defense for Ellen Whites scientific observations?
1- They have since petrified and become coal, which accounts for the large coal beds which are now
NOT TRUE – NOT EVEN CLOSE - petrified wood never becomes coal
Coal beds pre-date petrified wood
2- This coal has produced oil.
NOT TRUE – NOT EVEN CLOSE – true you can make a hydrocarbon fuel from coal – coal gas – Hitler fueled his country with it - But oil and coal are made by two different processes
3- . God causes large quantities of coal and oil to ignite and burn. Rocks are intensely heated, limestone is burned, and iron ore melted. Water and fire under the surface of the earth meet. The action of water upon the limestone adds fury to the intense heat, and causes earthquakes, volcanoes
NOT TRUE – NOT EVEN CLOSE
Both earthquakes and volcanoes are the consequence of Whole Earth Decompression
Both earthquakes and volcanoes are the consequence of harmonic balance and plate tectonics
4- God controls all these elements; they are his instruments to do his will;
WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR GOD OF TOV ONLY - does no ra?
5- Leprosy From Eating Pork: Pork was forbidden to the Israelites by God because it caused "scrofula" (TB of lymph glands, espec. the neck), "especially in that warm climate" of the Sinai desert. Also, "swine's flesh above all other flesh-meats, produces a bad state of the blood," affects the mind, "and the finer sensibilities are blunted" by its use. (4SGa 146, 1863, in 2SM 417)
Ooops! – I guess she should have stopped before she just starts making up crap
This is a true statement – very rarely
So I admit there is a hint of trurth here
The reason Jews were to stay away from Pork – the 99.99% of the other parasites that pigs carry
Lev 11:7 The pig, though it has a split, divided hoof, does not chew cud, so it is unclean to you.
Generally, any animal that eats other animals, whether they kill their food or eat carrion, - Lev 13-31
Or carrion animals that eat carrion - Exo 22:30-31
Pigs fail both requirements
Pigs are also the sacrificial offering to Tammuz – because he was killed bu a wild bore at age 40
Weep for Tammuz 40 days – Ezk 8 = Abomination