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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2022 17:01:05 GMT -5
D"Dear Robert – I know you are making a jest – I just forgot to laugh and giggle "R Glad I make you laugh... In ancient Israel, the king did not rule alone. There was also a queen. However, the queen was not the king’s wife, but his mother. She was known as the “Queen Mother”—in Hebrew, the gebirah.
To get an idea of just how important the Queen Mother was, consider what the Bible says about Bathsheba, the wife of King David and mother of King Solomon.
When Bathsheba comes into David’s presence, she bows to him as her king (1 Kings 1:15-16). But after David dies and Solomon her son becomes king, the tables are turned. Now, when Bathsheba comes into Solomon’s presence, he bows to her (1 Kings 2:19)! The king himself honors his mother because she is queen.
But it doesn’t stop there. King Solomon also has a “throne” brought in, so that his mother can sit at his “right” hand (1 Kings 2:19). Everyone knew what this meant. The Queen Mother was the most powerful person in the kingdom—second only to the king himself.
That’s why when the Queen Mother asks a favor of Solomon, he answers: “Make your request, my mother, for I will not refuse you” (1 Kings 2:20). R" Are these facts in Solomon's life? D" The only way your statement holds any weight – is if 1- IF we disregard – without form and void + chaosR" My dear Dave, in my view the earth became void and chaos and with darkness because God left billions of sinning angels on it, since they wanted a kingdom without God, God gave them one, and the temperatures fell to 2 degrees Kelvin, hence God did not exist much on earth with these sinning angels. Now don't mock my view, as I am entitled to it as much as you are to your view, but I invite you to poke holes in my theory and falsify my theory if you can. You say earth was created, I say earth existed from some other previous creation. You imply this was God's only creation of ALL things, including angels, while I do not, angels existed in some other creation, long before our Creation around this sinning rock called earth.... (I use the term loosely) as earth was void and dark because of sinning angels were living on it. Ac 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, Notice parallels here, darkness comes from a lack of GOD. Satan is a sinning angel, lacks GOD much in his living state. Hence the darkness and the condition of earth back than. D" A lot of natural RA went into the formation of mother earth and all physical creation You can call it stellar cosmology – you can call it the Big Bang – a lot of it requires violent and catastrophic events – all of it natural – a by-product / inherent to physical creation It is NOT evil – it is NOT wicked – It is balance within natureR" Hmm? I beg to differ. God made our universe perfect, it's looks imperfect because of SIN from Adam's time. RP" R" OK why did Eve require a yester ra creature to get her to do yester ra when her own mind should have gotten her to eat of the tree all by herself?
Explain the need for the creature... D" All the serpent did was talk – talk – talk - pest - pest - botherR" Not answered my question Dave. This bothering you are talking about is "deception, speaking falsehood, making a false report of God's words, technically sinning so to get Eve to sin"... D" Physical entropy = a natural process of matter Spiritual entropy = arrogance = self-centered – thinking you are alone praise of self NOT God the Creator The BEAST was the first sentient – the first biological thinker – and it thought only of self The BEAST was just the first thinker to choose world / creation – over the Creator Why – because he was created with some matter (yester ra) Cows – ants – monkeys - cave man – all (yester ra) The only choice of (yester ra) = world
Human beings= Gen 2:7 (animal with yester ra) + (spirit yester tov) Man is the creature that can choose World (yester ra) or God (yester tov)R" NO Dave I am not listening to your stuff anymore, unless you answer my questions, which you don't. Free will with two separate components to it, does not exist. No such thing as yester ra in one mind and yester tov in another mind, making two minds come in union to harass each other. Stop making stuff up ... I gave you opportunity to answer my questions and you refused to answer them. The mind just reasons, and can reason both yester tov or yester ra within the same reasoning ability. Birds can reason, so can other animals too, but lack science validation. No such thing as nashamah gifted to man on day 1 for trillions of humans who have not existed until thousands of years later. Nashamah comes along when two gametes come into union, the powers of GOD in partnership to the living fetus. God is the gift to us being alive, not another ethereal gift you cannot define. Gnostic is mystic and you sure love the idea of it .... RP" Explain the need for the aram creature... I see no need... D" It is just world – and the desires of this worldR' no answer Dave, if your view is correct, Eve should have sinned all by herself... but she needed sinning to make her sin.... The angel who sinned first took hundreds of years to reach the stage of fully blown sinning, such was the war in heaven, now the angel can make humans reason to disobey and thus do sinning much faster. The agent helped Eve sin much quicker. Just as peer group pressure speeds up reasoning to sin. RP" Explain the need for deceiving the woman?D" Deu 8:2 … in order to humble you, to test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His mitzvot or not.R" Deceive is not humble, deceive is not test, deceive is not a mizvot. Deceive is a sin Dave, the sinning angel was sinning to get Eve to sin, as Jeff explains deceiving Eve with truth, its still a sin, to falsify good words in a bad light. D" Fact – God test His peopleR" Only after the humans sins Dave, not before. D" So you are teaching that all pagan gods are YHWY and all pagans have the correct TorahR" no silly, I am saying the HS corrected their false religions, but did they listen? D" why was the 99% left in ignorance and susceptible to the other godsR" God did not abandon the Chinese did He? So your premise is wrong. Ask your American Indians if they have something similar to Salvation from God? D" This is my question to you – why was the 99% left in ignorance and susceptible to the ‘other gods’ of the archon Please answerR" The world once spoke Edenic Hebrew, God stopped that by introducing dozens of languages. Now God speaks salvation in those languages via the HS, Chinese had Noah for instance, speaking Chinese (not sure Noah spoke Chinese)... I see prophets in all language nations, not just hebrew only. However Hebrew is the end goal for all nations, though each culture had its own witnessing. D" Ezk 28 is all about man – all about EveR" cherub bara chata, these words are not about man. ------------------------ D" Please prove to me that satan is God’s opponet R" OK are you ready for this? (1) Why does GOD judge His creatures of RA when GOD approves of the yester ra temptations they do to humans? This proves the creatures are opposing God. (2) Why does Jesus say to these creatures, the prince, finds nothing in Me? Why are the creatures wanting Jesus to sin? This proves the tempting of the creatures was not designed by God. (3) Why does Jesus speak to the prince, get behind me, I can only worship God, not you as well? This proves the words of the creature was not designed by God. Answer these questions Dave. I have shown you verses that prove the creatures are sinning angels, that directly oppose the Father's ten commandments, and thus oppose GOD. RP" All your "hoo har" over 49 verses verses 23, doesn't matter, R" I tire of you twisting and squirming your way out of direct verses.... try to answer the above questions... D" At least we have discovered the value of line by lineR" I have a stubborn writer steeped in Gnostic views.... D" Does this mean when you know you are contradictory – you don’t question or correct yourselfR" No it means keep things simple and do not try to grapple things too high for me, Ps 131 :1 - 3 Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 9, 2022 0:13:23 GMT -5
D"Dear Robert – I know you are making a jest – I just forgot to laugh and giggle "R Glad I make you laugh... R" Are these facts in Solomon's life? Does this elevate Catholic Mary to your intercessor?I invite you to poke holes in my theory and falsify my theory if you can. You say earth was created, I say earth existed from some other previous creation. Scripture says it – YES – I accept scrfiptureD" A lot of natural RA went into the formation of mother earth and all physical creation You can call it stellar cosmology – you can call it the Big Bang – a lot of it requires violent and catastrophic events – all of it natural – a by-product / inherent to physical creation It is NOT evil – it is NOT wicked – It is balance within nature R" Hmm? I beg to differ. God made our universe perfect, it's looks imperfect because of SIN from Adam's time. Why do you deny the empirical evidence of Rom 1:19 + Psa 19:2D"So you are teaching that all pagan gods are YHWY and all pagans have the correct Torah R" no silly Then answer the question D"why was the 99% left in ignorance and susceptible to the other godsAsk your American Indians if they have something similar to Salvation from God? The American Indians do not have the Hebrew Torah – and they are not JewishD"This is my question to you – why was the 99% left in ignorance and susceptible to the ‘other gods’ of the archon Please answer R" The world once spoke Edenic Hebrew, God stopped that by introducing dozens of languages. Now God speaks salvation in those languages via the HS, Chinese had Noah for instance, speaking Chinese The Chinese do not have the Hebrew Torah nor are they Jewish D"This is my question to you – why was the 99% left in ignorance and susceptible to the ‘other gods’ of -the archon----------------- D"Ezk 28 is all about man – all about Eve R" cherub bara chata, these words are not about man. The King of Tyre was the guardian of all his kingdom – DUH YES – you have an entire doctrine built around two words
Precept upon percept, line upon line – your doctrine is not supported by scripture
------------------------ D"Please prove to me that satan is God’s opponet RP" All your "hoo har" over 49 verses verses 23, doesn't matter, R" I tire of you twisting and squirming your way out of direct verses.... try to answer the above questions... Please show me which of these verse validate your view – we can go over each and ever verseD"Does this mean when you know you are contradictory – you don’t question or correct yourself R" No it means keep things simple and do not try to grapple things too high for me, Ps 131 :1 - 3 So you teach – when your doctrine contradicts itself – or has no answers Do not question your doctrine – question the word of God
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2022 5:13:11 GMT -5
D"Scripture says it – YES – I accept scrfipture
R" OK where does Scripture say "earth was created" or "earth was formed"
Ge 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; (meaning earth existed already to be without form and void)
How do I know what "form and void" means? Easy look up line upon line....
Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. 24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. 25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. 26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Here Jeriamiah see earth brought back to a formless and void condition. Why? Because of SIN....sin seems to make things become formless and void. But notice the earth still exists, it just exists formless and void.
Now do you agree the earth already existed in Gen 1:2 ?
D"Why do you deny the empirical evidence of Rom 1:19 + Psa 19:2 R" This evidence came after Adam sinned in time, so where is the evidence in time before Adam sinned? Same problem with your theory coal naturally formed before the Great Flood, I deny this theory of yours. You base your theory on reading evidence from the Great Flood.
The evidence is swamped with historical changes.
D"The American Indians do not have the Hebrew Torah – and they are not Jewish R" who says they have to be? Can't God save the native American Indian in their culture and their tongue using their wise men?
I find the missionaries were arrogant to think only white man religion could be saved?
D"The Chinese do not have the Hebrew Torah nor are they Jewish R" no but some were saved in CHinese under Chinese torah, inspired by Chinese prophets, who were taught by the HS.
D" why was the 99% left in ignorance and susceptible to the ‘other gods’ of -the archon R" who says they were? I see GOD saving people all over the globe, sending prophets within the cultures the people had.
D"The King of Tyre was the guardian of all his kingdom – DUH R" yes a poetry simile can do that, but the poetry simile also has parallels, and a cherub created as a cherub, is a poetry parallel to other creatures, apart from humans.
Even RABBI Apple thought so.
D"YES – you have an entire doctrine built around two words R" Really?
Salvation based on amanuah in the OT, one verse. Hab 2:4 The HS is feminine, based on one verse in the OT Hos 4:19
D"Precept upon percept, line upon line – your doctrine is not supported by scripture R" This line upon line does not mean there are lots of verses on a theme, but that there are lots of verses related to the one under study.
SO for one verse on amanuah, we have related words, manna, and amen, for example SO for the one verse on HS, we have other words, like Shadday, wisdom, shekinah glory, etc.
D"Please show me which of these verse validate your view – we can go over each and ever verse R" Proof you do not read my post did you?
OK are you ready for this?
(1) Why does GOD judge His creatures of RA when GOD approves of the yester ra temptations they do to humans? This proves the creatures are opposing God.
(2) Why does Jesus say to these creatures, the prince, finds nothing in Me? Why are the creatures wanting Jesus to sin? This proves the tempting of the creatures was not designed by God.
(3) Why does Jesus speak to the prince, get behind me, I can only worship God, not you as well? This proves the words of the creature was not designed by God.
Answer these three, they prove the creatures are directly opposing GOD.
D"So you teach – when your doctrine contradicts itself – or has no answers R" NO Dave, when I come across a verse I do not understand, or does not match current ideas, I leave it alone
I give you two examples
(1) Le 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, ( with ) De 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth:
I have no idea what De 14:26 "strong drink" means here? SO I leave it alone.
(2) De 22:9 Thou shalt not sow thy vineyard with divers seeds: (with) Ellen white talking about amalgamation man with animals.
I have since learned this may mean GMO, in the past I had n oclue to the meaning "divers" seeds, I thought hybrids? But this is wrong? So GMO seems correct?
So I don't expect to know all things in Scripture, mysteries are fun and they keep you humble. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 9, 2022 8:39:03 GMT -5
R" OK where does Scripture say "earth was created" or "earth was formed" D” Scripture says it – YES – I accept scripture
Ge 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; (meaning earth existed already to be without form and void) Yes – earth was first a molten ball of goo – that cooled and underwent violent and catastrophic ra to yield the planet we live on today All of the evidence from earth and the heavens validate this Rom 1:19 + Psa 19:2
How do I know what "form and void" means? Easy look up line upon line....
Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. Correct – before Gen 1:3
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. 25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. No mortal man – just spirit – the First Age
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. YES – Revelation 1:3 the creation of the Beast
But notice the earth still exists, it just exists formless and void. YES – corporeal earth did not take shape until Gen 1:6
Now do you agree the earth already existed in Gen 1:2 ? Of course I do – Gen 1:1 - DUH
D"Why do you deny the empirical evidence of Rom 1:19 + Psa 19:2 R" This evidence came after Adam sinned in time, so where is the evidence in time before Adam sinned? First you argue that that billions of sinning angels are on earth in Gen 1:2 But you say sin was not invented until Gen 3:6 You teach a contradictory doctrine – both argument cannot be correct – or co-exist
Same problem with your theory coal naturally formed before the Great Flood, YEP started on Day 3 – before ligand digesting bacterial were created
I deny this theory of yours. You base your theory on reading evidence from the Great Flood. Not my theory – it is common within mainstream science Why do you deny the reality of Rom 1:19 + Psa 19:2 Why do you even have to deny any evidence to keep your Ellen White doctrine true -------------------
D"The American Indians do not have the Hebrew Torah – and they are not Jewish R" who says they have to be? IS THE TORAH THE WORD OF YHWY – or NOT
D" why was the 99% left in ignorance and susceptible to the ‘other gods’ of -the archon R" who says they were? I see GOD saving people all over the globe, sending prophets within the cultures the people had. You refuse to answer Simple Jewish answer for the Torah – God is absolute – if it exists then it is God’s Plan and God’s Will
Gnostic answer And before anything came into being, it was the Father alone who existed, before the worlds that are in the heavens appeared, or the world that is on the earth, or principality, or authority, or the powers. [...] appear [...] and [...] And nothing came into being without his wish.
He, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear, and make all those who contend leave behind the things that had come into being, and despise them with a lofty, incomprehensible knowledge, and flee to the one who exists.
Just another way to say - God is absolute – if it exists then it is God’s Plan and God’s Will ------------------------------------
D"The King of Tyre was the guardian of all his kingdom – DUH R" yes a poetry simile can do that, - supported by preceptor upon precept, line upon line
but the poetry simile also has parallels, and a cherub created as a cherub, is a poetry parallel to other creatures, apart from humans. NOT supported by precept upon precept, line upon line – have waited 3 years for scripture to support Ellen White doctrine
Even RABBI Apple thought so. NOT a pre Roman source – have been waiting for 3 years for you to offer a pre-Roman evidence of you Roman Fallen Angel doctrine
D"YES – you have an entire doctrine built around two words R" Really? - Salvation based on amanuah in the OT, one verse. Hab 2:4 I SO DISSAGREE WITH YOU – YOU DO NOT KNOW YOUR SCRIPTURE D"Precept upon percept, line upon line – your doctrine is not supported by scripture R" This line upon line does not mean there are lots of verses on a theme, Does not mean lots – agree But does means every verse on the theme must be in agreement
D"Please show me which of these verse validate your view – we can go over each and ever verse R" Proof you do not read my post did you? OK are you ready for this?
(1) Why does GOD judge His creatures of RA when GOD approves of the yester ra temptations they do to humans? Where is your verse that proves satan opposes God - you have an Ellen White assumption
(2) Why does Jesus say to these creatures, the prince, finds nothing in Me? Why are the creatures wanting Jesus to sin? Wanting Jesus – Son of Man -
This proves the tempting of the creatures was not designed by God. Where is your verse that proves satan opposes God Why do you deny agl/NT scripture
Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created—in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen, whether thrones or angelic powers or rulers or authorities. All was created through Him and for Him.
the tempting of the creatures IS designed by God. – By Him for Him
(3) Why does Jesus speak to the prince, get behind me, I can only worship God, not you as well? This proves the words of the creature was not designed by God. Satan in the wilderness could not temp Christ – only Jesus as he is supposed to temp man – Son of Man Christ – told satan – tempting God not allowed – Proof Jesus Christ is (yester ra) + (yester tov)
Answer these three, they prove the creatures are directly opposing GOD. Where do you get that idea from these verses
D"So you teach – when your doctrine contradicts itself – or has no answers R" NO Dave, when I come across a verse I do not understand, or does not match current ideas, I leave it alone So you can continue to teach / preach contradictory theology to others – why aren’t you a false witness?
I have no idea what De 14:26 "strong drink" means here? SO I leave it alone. YES – you know – you just want to deny scripture to keep Ellen White superior to Christ
(2) De 22:9 Thou shalt not sow thy vineyard with divers seeds: (with) Ellen white talking about amalgamation man with animals. The Law of Moses – do not disturb your neighbors planting
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2022 16:25:43 GMT -5
D"Yes – earth was first a molten ball of goo – that cooled and underwent violent and catastrophic ra to yield the planet we live on today R" NO, and more NO, and evolution idea, NO again I gave you a line upon line verse
Do you deny scripture?
Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. 24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. 25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. 26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Here Jeramiah see earth brought back to a formless and void condition. Why? Because of SIN....sin seems to make things become formless and void. But notice the earth still exists, it just exists formless and void.
I do not see a rock of magma in Jeramiah's view. So you are wrong Dave. Heat, SUN is evidence of GOD with us providing.
COLD, is evidence that GOD has LEFT us, no longer providing.
When GOD leaves a planet, it goes into chaos, and gets cold, 2 degree Kelvin, super cold, formless, atoms break down, molecules freeze.
But Dave has the opposite meaning, HOT magma, the very presence of GOD !!!!!
Look at Jerimiah "25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. "
No man, no birds, no animals, cold rock, WHY? SIN destroys the planet, and GOD leaves.
D"No mortal man – just spirit – the First Age R" How convenient, Gnostic has an answer, the First Age...
GNostic makes up stuff, not found in Moses torah. Look at Jerimiah, no man, no birds... why? Jer 4:20 Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment.
No mention of Dave's Gnostic age? None at all. You are denying Scripture.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Fruit place (matter) and all cities broken down (matter) no First Age, you are denying Scripture and ADDING invented ideas into Scripture, I guess Gnostic thinking does that?
RP" Now do you agree the earth already existed in Gen 1:2 ? D" Of course I do – Gen 1:1 - DUH R" Dave you are weird, I am saying the earth as a rock already existed, and was not formed as a hot rock cooling down from nothing, ie the earth was created before this creation.
When Jesus takes the redeemed to heaven for 1000 years, what happens to earth? Jerimiah tells you, it becomes formless and void, like before.... Not a magma hot rock cooling down, but a COLD rock, no birds, no air, no living humans, just sinning angels walking over it.
D"First you argue that that billions of sinning angels are on earth in Gen 1:2 But you say sin was not invented until Gen 3:6 You teach a contradictory doctrine – both argument cannot be correct – or co-exist (R") Angels sinned long before man existed. Angels sinned first.
(hence the term ) Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate,
Angels sinned first.
The verse you ignore, the Rev 12 war you also ignore, the ten commandments you also ignore telling us about the opposing elohiym power opposing the Father, long before man even existed. The ARAM creature existed BEFORE man, Dave.
Moses torah tells you this creature had a twisting head, a sinning head, long before MAN existed.
(Thank you for helping me read Moses account of the ARAM creature... who sinned before man even existed) -------------------------
D" IS THE TORAH THE WORD OF YHWY – or NOT R" Can't the HS in your conscience speak the torah?
RP"R" who says they were? I see GOD saving people all over the globe, sending prophets within the cultures the people had. D" You refuse to answer R" I just did?
God sent Chinese prophets with humble ability to hear the torah spoken to them via the HS in their conscience, and they wrote torah things for Chinese people to be saved. One example might be Confucius, a man raised by God? My two pennies...
D" Simple Jewish answer for the Torah – God is absolute – if it exists then it is God’s Plan and God’s Will R" If Gnostic is the answer Dave, how come Gnostic teachings did not go the the 99% ?
Where are your billions of copies of Gnostic teachings all over the world?
D"NOT supported by precept upon precept, line upon line R" Are you telling me Poetry has no rules of interpretation or are you saying you are blind and dull?
"Love is a river, a dam fed you some, clear was its water traditionally done."
Written by me aged 17, tell me what similes do you see in this ?
D"NOT a pre Roman source – have been waiting for 3 years for you to offer a pre-Roman evidence of you Roman Fallen Angel doctrine R" show me a pre Gnostic source than ....?
Show me that Luther taught Gnosticism Show me that Spurgeon taught Gnosticism SHow me that Waldesnians taught Gnosticism' Show me that Paul in the NT taught Gnosticism?
I did show you, I gave you Waldensians and ancient Chinese.
RP " R" Really? - Salvation based on amanuah in the OT, one verse. Hab 2:4 D" I SO DISSAGREE WITH YOU – YOU DO NOT KNOW YOUR SCRIPTURE R" Dave quotes NT sources....
Dave you do even read my posts...
Salvation based on amanuah in the OT, one verse. Hab 2:4
SHOW ME ONE other OT verse with salvation based on amanuah than? You can't. You do not know your OT Hebrew scripture.
Paul used this ONE verse many times in the NT yes. That is the latter torah. But Israel did not understand did they under the OT?
D"The Lord is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn of my ... "R" stick to the topic Dave, I said salvation based on amanuah, not salvation alone.
D"Does not mean lots – agree But does means every verse on the theme must be in agreement R" Yes , like how to read Poetry for instance. You can't even read Poetry. -------------------------------------
(1) Why does GOD judge His creatures of RA when GOD approves of the yester ra temptations they do to humans?
Where is your verse that proves satan opposes God - you have an Ellen White assumption R" Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Why does GOD judge the devil and His angels, throwing them into everlasting fire, when God intentionally created them with yester ra to tempt humans, thus approves of their function? Proof your Gnostic view is false.
Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
Why is the prince archon wanting to find SINNING in Jesus?
Mt 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Why does the Father design yester ra creatures that demand worship of them? Your Gnostic view is false, Jesus opposes this design feature the archon demanded of Jesus.
Here are three verses where the OPPOSER is OPPOSING GOD.
D"Satan in the wilderness could not temp Christ – only Jesus as he is supposed to temp man – Son of Man R" OH so this is your Gnostic view, you have two forms of Jesus?
In my view Satan could tempt Jesus to sin. Your Gnostic view is false.
D"YES – you know – you just want to deny scripture R" NO Dave, I don't know, I do not drink alcohol, and this verse is very puzzling.
D"The Law of Moses – do not disturb your neighbors planting R" Is that it? So little you know? I do not wear plastic under my skin for example, static electricity harms the skin.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 9, 2022 18:00:45 GMT -5
D"Yes – earth was first a molten ball of goo – that cooled and underwent violent and catastrophic ra to yield the planet we live on today R" NO, and more NO, and evolution idea, NO again
Do you deny scripture? Jer 4: D"No mortal man – just spirit – the First Age R" How convenient, Gnostic has an answer, the First Age... No mention of Dave's Gnostic age? None at all.
It is a Jewish teaching – Name calling is the frustration of a child Adam and Lilith creating the shedim
I do not see a rock of magma in Jeramiah's view. So you are wrong Dave. Correct – because the FIRST AGE was the age of spirit only ----------------
RP" Now do you agree the earth already existed in Gen 1:2 ? D" Of course I do – Gen 1:1 - DUH R" Dave you are weird,
I am saying the earth as a rock already existed, and was not formed as a hot rock cooling down from nothing, You have no respect for dispensation and you just want to play word games
Gen 1:1 earth = physical creation – all of it – all the visible universe – all the billions of planets – all the billions of galaxies – all the billions of stars
Your rock you call planet earth did not take form from the primordial goo until Gen 1:9-10
Gen 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
Consistent with modern stellar cosmology Evolution is the incorrect use of the term – Mr Word Man ----------------
D"First you argue that that billions of sinning angels are on earth in Gen 1:2 But you say sin was not invented until Gen 3:6 You teach a contradictory doctrine – both argument cannot be correct – or co-exist (R") Angels sinned long before man existed. Angels sinned first.
So you deny agl/NT Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; …
Angels sinned first. The verse you ignore, the Rev 12 war you also ignore, the ten commandments you also ignore telling us about the opposing elohiym power opposing the Father, long before man even existed.
So you deny agl/NT Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; …
Moses torah tells you this creature had a twisting head, a sinning head, long before MAN existed.
YES - the Beast existed from Gen 1:2 - but we are discussing the origin of sin So you deny agl/NT
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; …
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, Gen 6 takes place after Gen 3 and long after Gen 1:2 - DUH
The ARAM creature existed BEFORE man, Dave. YES – ever since Gen 1:2 – I have always said this YES – sin entered the world through Eve – Gen 3 – I have always said this -------------------------
D" IS THE TORAH THE WORD OF YHWY – or NOT R" Can't the HS in your conscience speak the torah? You are just avoiding the question Why did your feel Good God of love only leave the 99% to ignorance and other gods?
God sent Chinese prophets The Chinese were NOT God’s chosen people who received the TORAH and became Jews
D" Simple Jewish answer for the Torah – God is absolute – if it exists then it is God’s Plan and God’s Will The Gnostic answer = the Great Contest
R" If Gnostic is the answer Dave, how come Gnostic teachings did not go the the 99% ? As you already said some did – but the Nag Hammadi authors are 100% Christ believing Messianic Jews – from the Torah – from Judaisms
Where are your billions of copies of Gnostic teachings all over the world? Actively sought out and destroyed by your Roman Church authority – who also has the authority to change the Sabbath
D"NOT a pre Roman source – have been waiting for 3 years for you to offer a pre-Roman evidence of you Roman Fallen Angel doctrine R" show me a pre Gnostic source than ....? Of the archon – I offer King Solomon in spades -------------------------------------
Why does GOD judge the devil and His angels, DUH – because they are false witnesses Proof your Gnostic view is false.
Joseph Smith teaches satan and Jesus are twin brothers Charles Russel teaches there is no spiritual heaven – earth is all there is Mohammed taught there is no God but Allah and Allah has no son Siddhartha taught inner peace – you can reach nirvana on your own Caesar taught the he was a god Tiberius claimed to be the son of God
All false witness – all biological – just like the serpent race we call devils and satanas – The BeasT None of these are angels
Why is the prince archon wanting to find SINNING in Jesus? DUH – because Jesus is the biological Son of Man Jesus must be tempted in every / any way all men are And all your satan god had to offer = WORLD + WORLD + WORLD
Mat 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; Mat 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
Mt 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. YES Mat 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. YES – Jesus Christ = (Jesus the man) + (Christ – God incarnate)
Repeat – in case you missed it Mat 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Christ = God - the image of God – God incarnate
Here are three verses where the OPPOSER is OPPOSING GOD. D"Satan in the wilderness could not temp Christ – only Jesus as he is supposed to temp man – Son of Man R" OH so this is your Gnostic view, you have two forms of Jesus? Son of Man + Son of God – one of biology – and one SPIRIT
D"YES – you know – you just want to deny scripture R" NO Dave, I don't know, I do not drink alcohol, and this verse is very puzzling. Who cares about your personal choices Your doctrine forces you to doubt simple scripture
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2022 5:52:36 GMT -5
D" Adam and Lilith creating the shedimR"Really? And where did Lilith come from? Did the Father create her? So these shedim are really human hybrids? How come we cannot see the Shad then? No need to ask where you got this from as Gnostic views do not follow the Moses torah do they? Though some Jews support the idea of Lilith...weird. Question Did older Jews, say 1500BC support Lilith, or is this from recent Jews, say after the seige by babylon? I suspect the mystic view came from pagans? Who impacted Jewish thinking. D" Correct – because the FIRST AGE was the age of spirit onlyR" I see, the Moses torah does not speak of spirit age. But than you do not follow the Moses torah, you follow the Gnostic torah which is mystic. ---------------------- D "Your rock you call planet earth did not take form from the primordial goo until Gen 1:9-10R" I see Ge 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. It says here the earth was void and without form, and was a frozen water ball of ice, 2 degree Kelvin. Ge 1:3 ¶ And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. So the water ball became liquid all over. Light comes with heat. Ge 1:6 ¶ And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. God moved some waters into space and some remained on the earth, and some remained inside the earth. Ge 1:9 ¶ And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. These rocks came up within milliseconds, just appearing, as Robert Gantry ? reports on Polonium haloes in granite rocks. My theory is totally different to yours, no magma required and no slow processes over time. The second creation of earth, requires magma lake of fire, to dissolve the materials of man, and make things restored all over. D" Consistent with modern stellar cosmologyR" Really, how nice. Question. How is modern stellar cosmology different to modern stellar evolution? D" Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin;R" Are you dull? this sin impacted MAN the prince of HIS Creation, causing HIS creation and world to be curses by GOD. Previous to another creation, and angel sinned, and this impacted the angels world and so they got ejected from heaven, their world, and were banished to earth. D" YES - the Beast existed from Gen 1:2 - but we are discussing the origin of sinR"Moses torah tells you this creature had a twisting head, a sinning head, long before MAN existed. Why do you deny the ARAM creature who existed before MAN, and thus SINNED before MAN. I do not deny Rom 5:12, Adam sinned and this affects man. Can't you have different battles and wars Dave? Or does the Gnostic say one war affects all wars? RP" The ARAM creature existed BEFORE man, Dave.D" YES – ever since Gen 1:2 – I have always said thisR" Great , do you agree the Aram Creature is a sinning creature? Sorry you can't the creatures have not free will to sin, ? And if you changed this, than the creatures would be sinning creatures, my view. D"T he Chinese were NOT God’s chosen people who received the TORAH and became JewsR" What? Way back in 2400 BC many Chinese are saved by the ShangDi and their faith in the ShangDi, as Noah taught them. These Chinese were torah keeping people, and God saved them, a thousand years before a Jew even existed. D" Actively sought out and destroyed by your Roman Church authority – who also has the authority to change the SabbathR" How common was Gnostic teaching ? How far back can you go? Book of Enoch is impressive, if it was really a message from God, which it's not, therefore the whole of Gnostic books are written by deceiving angels, not from true angels or the HS giving men inspired messages. Book of Enoch speaks of summers and winters, Bingo not inspired. Before the Great Flood, there were no summers and winters. AND no rain either, or snow. or mountains, or salt water lakes, or oceans. D" Of the archon – I offer King Solomon in spadesR" Yes SHAD building God's temple. How nice. David wasn't allowed to build the temple, but SHAD are allowed. Gnostic is so weird. RP" Why does GOD judge the devil and His angels,D" DUH – because they are false witnesses R" Not a good answer Dave. These yester ra creatures are perfectly programmed by GOD to do what they were designed to do, so how can they become false witnesses, especially when every step they do is controlled by God's angels, Uriel remember? Try again, and really explain yourself. D" Joseph Smith teaches satan and Jesus are twin brothers Charles Russel teaches there is no spiritual heaven – earth is all there is Mohammed taught there is no God but Allah and Allah has no son Siddhartha taught inner peace – you can reach nirvana on your own Caesar taught the he was a god Tiberius claimed to be the son of God
All false witnessR" I get that the SHAD establish many religions to oppose GOD, and thus spoil Man, trapped in false religions and false witnessing. But you forget GOD designed and controls the daily movement of the SHAD, so explain to me how GOD can't control His shad that He now has to dispose of them in the same manner as God deals with sinning humans ? SInce humans have free will and SHAD don't why do entirely different creatures share the same fate?RP" Why is the prince archon wanting to find SINNING in Jesus?D" DUH – because Jesus is the biological Son of ManR" I do not buy this either, why would the Father make SHAD, daily controlled by Uriel, His own angel, to test and tempt Himself as an expression, to sin? Its a silly act of role playing and for what? Where is the risk factor here, the love? the dying for a person ? It's sick, sorry to use my idom again, but really Gnostic view makes no sense. Why didn't Jesus say sin anyway? Doesn't matter, the Father kills humans anyway, doesn't the Gnostics say this? Please explain, if you can... D" Jesus must be tempted in every / any way all men areR" Sorry Dave, I do not see Jesus tempted fairly at all, its role playing. Actors, the Shad have no free will and are told what to do every move. The Father reacts as He wishes to within the designs of His design, nothing is based on free will, there is no risk. And if Jesus did Sin it's no big deal, as the parties are at no risk. When Humans sins, we choose to freely. When SHAD sin, they do not freely choose to, they are doing what the Father designs and controls them to do under Uriel. So the SON (really your Father) is like a puppet show, the left hand controls the Shad and the right hand is Jesus, both on stage for humans to watch. There is no risk here, no evil here and no Satanic hatred for God. In fact its not even sinning. Actors acting. I am sorry but Gnostic view has God and SHAD in role playing, like puppets in a show. Do you have any idea what SIN is, its breaking God's law, where a wicked creature's free will rebel's against His maker.No control by God, no puppet, no Uriel limiting the rebellion, pure hatred comes out of the wicked creature, something God cannot control. SIN cannot be defined or explained, not even by GOD. Yet Gnostic views has RA and thus SIN designed and controlled by GOD? Gnostics does not play around with free will hatred of GOD does it? RP" R" OH so this is your Gnostic view, you have two forms of Jesus?D" Son of Man + Son of God – one of biology – and one SPIRITR" Please explain. In my view Jesus came as a human clad with humanity. He is fully divine and fully human. Once Jesus who is fully divine, encapsulated Himself with humanity, it cannot be undone, and so Jesus who is fully divine is always for eternity fully human, and retains the same body with RA scars for eternity. This is part of the law required for mischief done to humans . I have one form and one shape of Jesus, and this form and shape is totally biological. Now please explain your view.
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Post by Dave on Aug 10, 2022 8:13:10 GMT -5
D" Adam and Lilith creating the shedim So these shedim are really human hybrids? How come we cannot see the Shad then? DUH – they say it happened in the spiritual realm – Adamus + Lilith - shedimNo need to ask where you got this from as Gnostic views do not follow the Moses torah do they? This is 100% Jewish myth – even they call it a myth Name calling is the last resort of a child Why is misrepresenting others your only argument? Question Did older Jews, say 1500BC support Lilith, or is this from recent Jews, Isaiah – 8th century BCYou should know the myth - before you speak to the myth Otherwise - you will appear as if you do not know what your talking about---------------------- D"Your rock you call planet earth did not take form from the primordial goo until Gen 1:9-10 R" I see D"Consistent with modern stellar cosmology R" Really, how nice. Why does it offend you that Rom 1:1- Psa 19:2 support modern science Why do you have to deny so much evidence to keep your Ellen White true
D"Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; R" Are you dull? this sin impacted MAN the prince of HIS Creation, causing HIS creation and world to be curses by GOD. Correct – this is the origin od SIN on earthPrevious to another creation, There is only one creation and one CreatorD" YES - the Beast existed from Gen 1:2 - but we are discussing the origin of sin R"Moses torah tells you this creature had Why do you deny the ARAM creature who existed before MAN, and thus SINNED before MAN. You have had 3 years to show me you verse where your satan opposes God Every verse = your satan in the service to the Lord helping to facilitate God will on earth But you refuse to answer why you call it a sin to obey GodD" YES – ever since Gen 1:2 – I have always said this R" Great , do you agree the Aram Creature is a sinning creature? Sorry you can't the creatures have not free will to sin, ? And if you changed this, than the creatures would be sinning creatures, my view. Please show me your verse where your satan opposes God – every verse ha your satan in the service of the Lord helping to facilitates God’s Will on earth But you refuse to answer why you call it a sin to obey GodD"The Chinese were NOT God’s chosen people who received the TORAH and became Jews R" What? Way back in 2400 BC many Chinese are saved by the ShangDi and their faith in the ShangDi, as Noah taught them. These Chinese were torah keeping people, and God saved them, a thousand years before a Jew even existed. Cool – so you teach that the Chines have the Torah by YHWY and are the true people chosen by God Why do you hate the Jews so badly – no respect - D"Actively sought out and destroyed by your Roman Church authority – who also has the authority to change the Sabbath R" How common was Gnostic teaching ? How far back can you go? Book of Enoch is impressive, if it was really a message from God, which it's not, therefore the whole of Gnostic books are written by deceiving angels, not from true angels or the HS giving men inspired messages. Enoch is 100% Jewish – why have you started to call Jewish teaching GnosticBook of Enoch speaks of summers and winters, Bingo not inspired. The Book of revelation speaks of the end-times – hasn’t happened yet – therefore you claim it is not inspired – do you do this so you can deny the beastD"Of the archon – I offer King Solomon in spades R" Yes SHAD building God's temple. How nice. David wasn't allowed to build the temple, but SHAD are allowed. Gnostic is so weird.Again – it is Jewish - Why do you hate the Jews so badly – no respectRP" Why does GOD judge the devil and His angels, D" DUH – because they are false witnesses R" Not a good answer Dave. All false witness R". But you forget GOD designed and controls the daily movement of the SHAD, WHAT – who said the archon are puppets – who says God controls their daily movement Why is misrepresenting others your only argumentRP" Why is the prince archon wanting to find SINNING in Jesus? D" DUH – because Jesus is the biological Son of Man R" I do not buy this either- So Jesus Christ was not fully human – why do you deny scripture to keep your Ellen White correct?D"Jesus must be tempted in every / any way all men are R" Sorry Dave, I do not see Jesus tempted fairly Why do you dent the Gospel of Jesus Christ – why do you deny the agl/NT but call yourself a ChristianRP" R" OH so this is your Gnostic view, you have two forms of Jesus? D" Son of Man + Son of God – one of biology – and one SPIRIT R" Please explain. Jesus Christ = (Jesus)+(Christ) = (Son of Man)+(Son of God) = (Biological Jesus)+(God incarnate)In my view Jesus came as a human You just denied this factD" DUH – because Jesus is the biological Son of Man R" I do not buy this either-
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2022 15:54:38 GMT -5
D" DUH – they say it happened in the spiritual realm – Adamus + Lilith - shedim This is 100% Jewish myth – even they call it a mythR" OK if it's termed a myth, why promote it than? What's not to say lots of Jewish stuff is a myth? D" You should know the myth - before you speak to the myth Otherwise - you will appear as if you do not know what your talking aboutR" I hardly know anything about anything, according to you. I hate Science Fiction books, never read any in my life, so take your myths and shove them. I only am interested in truth I can see and test and validate in Nature. My friend Eric Livingstone the PHD SDA scholar of SDA college, had memorized the entire NT in Greek, and knew Hebrew as well, we emailed many times, and every time we disagreed, as East is from West. So do not be surprised that I disagree. Even SDA scholars are taught the ways of the world which Satan influences, and thus our best scholars have spurious theories in their hearts. I could not get him to change, he was indoctrinated in his worldly ways. We disagreed all the time. And He was our SDA profession in the College school of learning Greek and Hebrew...go figure ! D" Correct – this is the origin od SIN on earthR" No this is only the origin of sin for manAngels sinned first and were banished to earth. Explain the tension between GOD and the aram creature BEFORE man existed than? War in heaven. So many verses in Scripture you ignore? RP "Previous to another creation, D" There is only one creation R" Your theory, it serves you well. In fact you limit GOD to one lousy creation. You limit God to dealing with RA naturally In fact your God is so weak He cannot create matter without natural RA in it? The Gnostic god is not very almighty is He? And the Gnostic God doesn't create much or very often does He? And the Gnostic God only has robotic creatures to love, man is the only one with choices to love? How pathetic and limited the Gnostic God (GG) is. RP" Why do you deny the ARAM creature who existed before MAN, and thus SINNED before MAN?D" You have had 3 years to show me you verse where your satan opposes God Every verse = your satan in the service to the Lord helping to facilitate God will on earthR" I am showing you one now but you refuse to answer the question? D" Please show me your verse where your satan opposes God – every verse ha your satan in the service of the Lord helping to facilitates God’s Will on earthR" Really? Why does GOD Judge Him than? Your answer, he is a poor witness? Not much of a God at designing and controlling the SHAD every day by Uriel, is your god? Pathetic control and pathetic design I would say, than later God has to destroy the creature He designs. And the creature has no free will, so this really implies your god cannot create creatures with 100% functions at all, they soon become false witnesses? How pathetic your designer is. So much for Gnostic views. D" But you refuse to answer why you call it a sin to obey GodR" And you refuse to answer why God judges the SHAD He created? Your Gnostic views is bogus... Who is doing the "name calling" now? you do Dave, I have tried to answer every question you pose to me. My faith is able to be scrutinized and studied, yours is NOT. D" Cool – so you teach that the Chines have the Torah by YHWY and are the true people chosen by God Why do you hate the Jews so badly – no respect R" I never said that? Must you always mock and twist. I said the CHinese people are saved by Chinese prophets, that GOD sent to them. The Chinese have teachings similar to the torah the Jews have. Once someone asked Moses to stop them speaking in the spirit, Moses exclaimed I wish all spoke in the spirit. You have this idea that only blood lineage Jews can be saved, where GOD wishes to save all peoples, even the Assyrians were saved by Jonah and His one message. D" Enoch is 100% Jewish – why have you started to call Jewish teaching GnosticR" Oh, I didn't know that? OK why wasn't the Book of Enoch selected in the canon of the Tanak than by the Jews? D" The Book of revelation speaks of the end-times – hasn’t happened yet – therefore you claim it is not inspired – do you do this so you can deny the beastR" Is that your strongest debate to reduce a book that is inspired? Prophecy is inspired, Enoch made a prophecy of the coming of Jesus, and His prophecy is recorded in the torah, I see Enoch as a oral teachings, not written teachings. D "Again – it is Jewish - Why do you hate the Jews so badly – no respectR" OH, I didn't know that, Jews believe this? I see. Is their some website devoted to Jews and their doctrines and beliefs, so I can study them in infinite details please? I get the impression Jews are different to the Torah supporting Jews or are they the same? Modern Jews are not those from Judea, so already we have problems with who's who? D" WHAT – who said the archon are puppets – who says God controls their daily movement Why is misrepresenting others your only argumentR" Uriel controls their every day actions God designed the aram creatures with yester ra, but no free will. So explain to me how they are not puppets... you never like writing your discussion's do you? Keep me daggling on a line? Is this your way? SO now you are saying the creatures have free will? Or did GOD go overboard in the design of evil in these creatures? That makes the designer one at fault? Please write your discussions. D "Why is misrepresenting others your only argumentR" I only logically process what you give me....it's your theory not mine, Gnostic views.... D" So Jesus Christ was not fully human R" SO you agree with me Jesus was fully human? Great so do I Now than answer why Jesus who was fully human, and could sin, why would ARAM creatures want Jesus to SIN?Surely the Father did not design this against Himself? RP " In my view Jesus came as a humanD" You just denied this factR" Here is a perfectly logical chance for Dave to agree with me, but no, your argue and mock, why didn't you say D" In my view Jesus came as fully human, so we both agree together Instead you mock me, why can't we get along sometimes? Now try to answer my questions above. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 11, 2022 0:31:29 GMT -5
D"You should know the myth - before you speak to the myth Otherwise - you will appear as if you do not know what your talking about R" I hardly know anything about anything, according to you.TRUTH – you do not come across as well educated You have a reading comprehension issue with English and pretend you know Hebrew You do not have a firm overview of the Old Testament or the New If it was just a matter of exposure to the study material – you would have a valid excuse The only conclusion = you don’t want to know – which is the saddest revelation of it allI hate Science Fiction books, never read any in my life, As I said – you are not well read – by choiceI only am interested in truth I can see and test and validate in Nature.Yet – you deny the empirical evidence of Rom 1:19 + Psa 19:2 that validates an Intelligent Designer You claim to be a Christian – why does it threaten you that science indicates an Intelligent Design?Explain the tension between GOD and the aram creature BEFORE man existed than? Tension? - Not My God – who is Absolutely Sovereign War in heaven. So many verses in Scripture you ignore? YEP – no biology in heaven because it is corruptible – the first sentient made with some matter – could only see matter – and off into matter it went – BOOMMy God is Absolute – Rev 12:7 war was over in an instant – NO CONTESTGen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. BOOM – end of Day 1RP" Why do you deny the ARAM creature who existed before MAN, and thus SINNED before MAN? D"You have had 3 years to show me you verse where your satan opposes God Every verse = your satan in the service to the Lord helping to facilitate God will on earth R" I am showing you one now but you refuse to answer the question? I am reading here – but see no verse – just your assumptionD"Please show me your verse where your satan opposes God – every verse ha your satan in the service of the Lord helping to facilitates God’s Will on earth R" Really? Why does GOD Judge Him than? Your answer, he is a poor witness? YES – the archon become false witness – some not all – when they reproduced outside of their kind After Gen 6 – not before Gen 3 But you deny Gen 6 is a spiritual event – because you deny the spiritNot much of a God at designing and controlling the SHAD every day by Uriel, Where do you get this shit from – not from me Why is misrepresentation your only argument – MR SERIUOUS D" But you refuse to answer why you call it a sin to obey God R" And you refuse to answer why God judges the SHAD He created? Your Gnostic views is bogus... BULL SHIT Answered many times – they become false witness – some not all – when they reproduced outside of their kindD"Cool – so you teach that the Chines have the Torah by YHWY and are the true people chosen by God Why do you hate the Jews so badly – no respect R" I never said that? Must you always mock and twist. Then answer the question – why did God leave the 99% to other gods?-------------------- D"Enoch is 100% Jewish – why have you started to call Jewish teaching Gnostic R" Oh, I didn't know that? YES YOU DO – DISCUSSED IT MANY TIMESTRUTH - You have a reading comprehension issue with English and pretend you know Hebrew You do not have a firm overview of the Old Testament or the New If it was just a matter of exposure to the study material – you would have a valid excuse The only conclusion = you don’t want to know – which is the saddest revelation of it all OK why wasn't the Book of Enoch selected in the canon of the Tanak than by the Jews? Enoch was a full part of the Temple Scrolls – also found complete in Dead Sea Scrolls Quoted 64 times within the agl/NT – second only to Isaiah Teaches the 2nd Coming of Christ 250 years before Jesus was bornR" Oh, I didn't know that? YES YOU DO – DISCUSSED IT MANY TIMES – jus more MR SERIOUS STUDENT Academic IntegratoryRP " In my view Jesus came as a human D" You just denied this fact R" Here is a perfectly logical chance for Dave to agree with me, but no, your argue and mock, why didn't you say D" In my view Jesus came as fully human, so we both agree together D" DUH – because Jesus is the biological Son of Man R" I do not buy this either- IS Jesus 100% biology or NOT? IS Jesus the Son of Man or NOT? IS Jesus fully human or NOT? AND Christ is Fully God – Son of God – Image of God – God incarnate Jesus Chjrist = (biology / flesh / Son of Man) + (Christ – the Spirit of God – the image of God – God incarnate) R" SO you agree with me Jesus was fully human? Great so do I Now than answer why Jesus who was fully human, and could sin, why would ARAM creatures want Jesus to SIN? Surely the Father did not design this against Himself? DUH – Jesus Christ had to be tested as all men are tested – had to suffer as all men suffer – so no man can say – I had it worse – God doesn’t understand my pain IS THIS NOT PART OF YOUR CHRISTIAN TEACHING? – it is fundamental
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2022 16:32:13 GMT -5
D"Tension? - Not My God – who is Absolutely Sovereign
War in heaven. So many verses in Scripture you ignore? YEP – no biology in heaven because it is corruptible – the first sentient made with some matter – could only see matter – and off into matter it went – BOOM R" So the Gnostic GOD (GG) theory cannot stand biology in heaven, so any matter with biology in it goes directly out of heaven. You GG theory is really good at removing Bible themes isn't it?
D"What's a post resurrection body? - the answer has not yet been revealed R" Oh I see, you say the old body Thomas saw with RA damage on it is changed when Jesus went into heaven? How nice....
Scripture does not say that...
Ac 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Ro 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Jesus has to live in this sacrifice for sin, to atone and forgive sinners when they sin, the sin is dealt with inside the sanctuary in heaven. We require a sin bearer who deals with our sin, not by dying over and over, but dying once, the scars of sin remain on His body, the Father sees the RA scars and forgives us our our sins.
Noto sure how a spirit entity can deal with a biological sin, in a sanctuary in heaven? So your GG hatred for biology is unfounded?? Please explain
D"1Jn 3:2 Loved ones, now we are God’s children; and it has not yet been revealed what we will be. But we do know that when it’s revealed, we shall be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. We will be changed – quickened – into what He is post resurrection – why do you deny the New Testament? R" This verse speaks of how we become like Jesus, sinning not and able to do what He did without sin in his body.
It does not speak much about the body Jesus has.
D" Sorry Robert – no biology in heaven R" How come angels eat biological manna than?
Ps 78:25 Man did eat angels' food: he sent them meat to the full.
SO you deny Scripture?
What of the wedding feast in heaven? No food to be eaten hey Dave? I doubt this.
Why do you deny Scripture Dave?
Lu 14:15 ¶ And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.
Why do you deny Scripture Dave?
Mt 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.
Biological function here mentioned in heaven
Why do you deny Scripture Dave?
So according to your GG theory biology cannot be tolerated in heaven.... ?
D"My God is Absolute – Rev 12:7 war was over in an instant – NO CONTEST R" Another GG theory view, no war, just a 6 second bustle.
D"I am reading here – but see no verse – just your assumption R" Why do you deny the ARAM creature who existed before MAN, and thus SINNED before MAN?
SO the GG theory says the Aram creature got banished because it was biological, not because it was sinning. SO I see. Nice theory this GG is becoming. It seems like God cannot tolerate biology in heaven, the very thing God creates. RP" Not much of a God at designing and controlling the SHAD every day by Uriel, D" Where do you get this shit from – not from me Why is misrepresentation your only argument – MR SERIUOUS R" Pull up the posts you made Dave, show them to readers,
(1) do you not have Uriel controlling the SHAD, (2) did not GOD design the ARAM creature with yester ra ? (3) the creature has no free will, so cannot morally sin
are these facts about GG theory true or not?
Try to be serious, and discuss if the sentences are wrong.
RP" R" And you refuse to answer why God judges the SHAD He created? Your Gnostic views is bogus... D" BULL SHIT Answered many times – they become false witness – some not all – when they reproduced outside of their kind R" I am testing the logic of your Father designing the Creatures.
SO they become false witnesses because (1) They reproduce outside of their kind?
Are you saying the SHAD came down out of heaven saw the human women were fair, shape shifted and had sex with them, creating demigods, which GOD sees as SHAD creatures being false witnesses and thus worthy of the second death? Is this correct? Why can't you write this discussion?
So questions for this
(1) How can the SHAD do this outside of their programmed design? They have no free will. SO they cannot do moral sin. Neither can they mate outside of their kind? Something wrong with your GG theory?
For example there is no evidence of any natural creature mating with other animals outside of their kind?
And I see all creatures having free will to reason and think and with great brains of intelligence. You really need to define these creatures better Dave. Write a discussion please.
D"Then answer the question – why did God leave the 99% to other gods? R" I did already, God did not leave the 99% to become lost. He rose many prophets up within the culture they had. They also had the HS witnessing to them daily.
D"YES YOU DO – DISCUSSED IT MANY TIMES R" I thought Jewish is a Jew who follows Hebrew, not one who is confused and follows other books not seen as holy by Jews. RP" OK why wasn't the Book of Enoch selected in the canon of the Tanak than by the Jews? D" Enoch was a full part of the Temple Scrolls – also found complete in Dead Sea Scrolls R" How far back does the Book of Enoch go as being copied?
D"DUH – Jesus Christ had to be tested as all men are tested – had to suffer as all men suffer – so no man can say – I had it worse – God doesn’t understand my pain R" Explain why you think God designed creatures to intentionally make living in biology difficult and painful?
You do not see yester ra as evil, just as an example of biological pain and suffering.
I am seeing the GG in a different light, is this correct, or am I misrepresenting you again?
The biggest "so no man can say – I had it worse – God doesn’t understand my pain" object is living AFTER you sinned, and trying to overcome your SINNING using faith in Jesus words of power, the SINNING creates AVEN propensities which are difficult to overcome, but Jesus never sinned so knows nothing about the weakness of the biology steeped in epi-genetics bent on yester ra.
D"IS THIS NOT PART OF YOUR CHRISTIAN TEACHING? – it is fundamental R" What that pain and suffering is a part of the natural cycle of biology? Arr no.
I am beginning to see your GG theory hates biology.
Please explain.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 11, 2022 19:15:29 GMT -5
D"Tension? - Not My God – who is Absolutely Sovereign
War in heaven. So many verses in Scripture you ignore? YEP – no biology in heaven because it is corruptible – the first sentient made with some matter – could only see matter – and off into matter it went – BOOM R" So the Gnostic GOD (GG) theory cannot stand biology in heaven, It is the New Testament teaching – why do you deny the Gospel – Christian
1Co 15:50 Now I say this, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and what decays cannot inherit what does not decay. 1Co 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last shofar. For the shofar will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed. 1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruptibility ,
D"1Jn 3:2 Loved ones, now we are God’s children; and it has not yet been revealed what we will be. But we do know that when it’s revealed, we shall be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. We will be changed – quickened – into what He is post resurrection – why do you deny the New Testament? R" This verse speaks of how we become like Jesus, sinning not and able to do what He did without sin in his body. It does not speak much about the body Jesus has.
1Co 15:50 Now I say this, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and what decays cannot inherit what does not decay. 1Co 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last shofar. For the shofar will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed. 1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruptibility ,
D" Sorry Robert – no biology in heaven R" How come angels eat biological manna than? Ps 78:25 Man did eat angels' food: he sent them meat to the full. There are your caravour angels – their changed DNA by your satan god Don’t you have an angels praising and serving God?
Mt 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom. Biological function here mentioned in heaven NOPE – the gathering together of the Jews from all the nation to fight the final battle
So according to your GG theory biology cannot be tolerated in heaven.... ? Name calling is the frustration of a child – no biology in heaven 1Co 15:50 Now I say this, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and what decays cannot inherit what does not decay. 1Co 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last shofar. For the shofar will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed. 1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruptibility ,
D"My God is Absolute – Rev 12:7 war was over in an instant – NO CONTEST R" Another GG theory view, no war, just a 6 second bustle. Time is not linear – 1 sec or 2 hours – has no relevance The war broke out on Day 1 – when the first sentient open his eyes and only arrogant only though of self AND – the war over Day 1 – to begin Day 2
There is no war in heaven today between two gods – No such thing as a cosmic battle between your satan god and the Creator The Beast was cast into earth (Day 1 earth – all physical creation) – game over
D"I am reading here – but see no verse – just your assumption R" Why do you deny the ARAM creature who existed before MAN, and thus SINNED before MAN?
Opening his eyes, he saw a vast quantity of matter without limit; and he became arrogant, saying, "It is I who am God, and there is none other apart from me". When he said this, he sinned against the entirety. And a voice came forth from above the realm of absolute power, saying, "You are mistaken, Samael" – which is, 'god of the blind'.
And he said, "If any other thing exists before me, let it become visible to me!" And immediately Sophia stretched forth her finger and introduced light into matter; and she pursued it down to the region of chaos. And she returned up to her light; once again darkness [...] matter.
Opened his eyes – was arrogant – ejected from heaven His sin = 100% SELF (yester ra) Just like a cow, an ant, a cockroach, or a pig = 100% (yester ra) SELF ----------------------------
RP" Not much of a God at designing and controlling the SHAD every day by Uriel, D" Where do you get this shit from – not from me Why is misrepresentation your only argument – MR SERIUOUS R" Pull up the posts you made Dave, show them to readers,
(1) do you not have Uriel controlling the SHAD, Correct – The Gospel of the Egyptians – calls for a volunteer to oversee the chos After five thousand years, the great light Eleleth spoke: "Let someone reign over the chaos and Hades." And there appeared a cloud whose name is hylic Sophia [...] She looked out on the parts of the chaos, her face being like [...] in her form [...] blood. And the great angel Gamaliel spoke to the great Gabriel, the minister of the great light Oroiael; he said, "Let an angel come forth, in order that he may reign over the chaos and Hades." Then the cloud, being agreeable, came forth in the two monads, each one of which had light. [...] the throne, which she had placed in the cloud above.
King Solomon – Beelzebub needed Uriel’s permission to appear
Does this mean that God is directing each and every action of the archon - rediculas?
(2) did not GOD design the ARAM creature with yester ra ? YES – made by Him for Him because God created everything Cows have only (yester ra) God made them Ants only have (yester ra) God made them Cockroaches only have (yester ra) and God made them
Does this mean that God is directing each and every action of the archon - rediculas? Your robot talk is NONSENSE Why does your god have to tell every animal where to go - what to eat - when to sleep
(3) the creature has no free will, so cannot morally sin The archon – are 100% (yester ra) once they took on mortal form they (yester ra) in the mortal world They reproduced out of their own kind These archon are held in chains – awaiting to be released once again to sting man for 5 months (Rev 9)
RP" R" And you refuse to answer why God judges the SHAD He created? Your Gnostic views is bogus... D" BULL SHIT Answered many times – they become false witness – some not all – when they reproduced outside of their kind
(1) They reproduce outside of their kind? Are you saying the SHAD came down out of heaven saw the human women were fair, shape shifted and had sex with them, creating demigods, which GOD sees as SHAD creatures being false witnesses and thus worthy of the second death? Is this correct? Why can't you write this discussion?
Book of Enoch – Watchers The shedim / archon – who were already here on earth – changed their shape to created demi-gods Correct – Gen 6 – the very cause of the Flood
So questions for this (1) How can the SHAD do this outside of their programmed design? They have no free will. Their programming = (yester ra) and they express (yester ra) in a spiritual form – and Gen 6 in a mortal form
SO they cannot do moral sin. The violated the commandment – to reproduce after their own kind
Neither can they mate outside of their kind? Something wrong with your GG theory? Enoch and his WATCHER is 100% Jewish – 2nd Temple period Why do you now call Judaism Gnostic? Name calling is the frustration of a child
For example there is no evidence of any natural creature mating with other animals outside of their kind? Except scripture and almost every religion on this planet Except ancient aliens or modern UFOlogy
D"Then answer the question – why did God leave the 99% to other gods? R" I did already, God did not leave the 99% to become lost So all the worlds was given the Torah and became Jewish - wrong Why don’t you just answer the question?
D"YES YOU DO – DISCUSSED IT MANY TIMES R" I thought Jewish is a Jew who follows Hebrew, not one who is confused and follows other books not seen as holy by Jews. Correct – you have no clue what it means to be Jewish or the theology of Judaism You deny Jesus was Jewish - or His followers You use a different CONTEX - everyone of Jesus's day believed as Rome teaches
RP" OK why wasn't the Book of Enoch selected in the canon of the Tanak than by the Jews? D" Enoch was a full part of the Temple Scrolls – also found complete in Dead Sea Scrolls R" How far back does the Book of Enoch go as being copied? 2nd Temple period – it was common knowledge
D"DUH – Jesus Christ had to be tested as all men are tested – had to suffer as all men suffer – so no man can say – I had it worse – God doesn’t understand my pain R" Explain why you think God designed creatures to intentionally make living in biology difficult and painful?
Gen 3:15 – established by God – God’s Will – God’s plan
You do not see yester ra as evil, just as an example of biological pain and suffering. (yester ra) = the commandment to go forth be fruitful and multiply – subdue, conquer, and have dominion
If biology is difficult and suffering, why did Jesus sin than? Who said Jesus sinned?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2022 15:16:42 GMT -5
Greetings
Happy Sabbath Dave
D"Co 15:50 Now I say this, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and what decays cannot inherit what does not decay. R" This is referring to RA-corrupted biology Dave, DUH. Biology stained by SIN, duh.
However in heaven a sinless biology is allowed, with all the restored functions, we lost do to Adam's sin.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruptibility ,
This verse tells you this, the one you quoted, twisting the passage to mean that ALL biology is banned in heaven.
On the contrary only sin-stained-biology is banned in heaven.
RP" Mt 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.
Biological function here mentioned in heaven
D" NOPE – the gathering together of the Jews from all the nation to fight the final battle R" What.? Again no discussion from Dave, so I have to ask you to explain yourself.
Re 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
The saints go to a wedding feast with Jesus, the bridegroom in heaven. Re 21:9 ...Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
Mt 22:3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
The wedding feast comes with food and drink, biology in heaven.
Mt 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? You also require the covering Jesus provides for His wedding.
Not much direct verses on eating and drinking in heaven, only these parables and poetry similes, so I supposed the Gnostic view is ALL biology is banned from heaven? Is this your belief?
D"Does this mean that God is directing each and every action of the archon - rediculas? Your robot talk is NONSENSE Why does your god have to tell every animal where to go - what to eat - when to sleep R" You haven't thought this through properly and thoroughly like I have Dave.
You state the creatures have no free will. Now you are saying this idea is bogus. If an animal has no free will, it cannot think or make cognitive decisions, or choices.
I suppose you argue it can, just only not choose God to be saved. This is a special narrow case of cognitive decisions, you have to include all thinking or no thinking.
So in my view no free will means a robotic creature, programmed to do what the program says.
And free will means an animal with cognitive ability to think, make choices and have intelligence.
Birds in my view have free will, but they cannot choose to be saved from their sinning, because the Bible saying the memories of their spirit go downward. While Man has memories retained by the spirit that go upward to God.
The problem has arisen from you not discussing what you mean by free will, you do not write discussions and so I am left to assume meanings you do not intend.
So if you are saying the creatures have cognitive intelligence, than they also have free will. Is this what your saying now?
You might be better off removing this word play game of yours, I personally do not think much of "free will" as a term. Its not Biblical, all creatures can "reason", and only man can "choose to be saved, from their reasoning".
RP" (1) How can the SHAD do this outside of their programmed design? They have no free will. D" Their programming R" SO I take this to mean, you agree the archons have no free will, but their programming caused them to become a false witness and hence worthy of the second death?
Why couldn't GOD design their programming correctly so they are never a false witness, and never experiencing the second death?
Please answer this question and post some discussions.
RP" SO they cannot do moral sin. D" The violated the commandment – to reproduce after their own kind R" NOW you completely contradict me, and yourself?
DO you know what you believe and support? Obviously not.
Now you say the archon violated the commandment, and this is a free will choice of the cognitive mind to do so.
Now Dave says the archons have free will, and also can morally sin? Talk about a turn around? Care to explain yourself Dave?
Please answer this question and post some discussions.
D"Name calling is the frustration of a child R" The only frustration I get Dave is trying to fathom your theory because you flip flop all the time. ---------------------------------
D"So all the worlds was given the Torah and became Jewish - wrong R" Are you for real? Why would GOD want a Chinese person to be saved as a Jew? The word Hebrew means to cross over, can't a pagan Chinese cross over to a YHWH-Chinese? I think so, in Chinese language, doing Chinese customs too.
Can't YHWH-people become "spiritual Jews" not literal people living in Judea.
Your talk about Israel saved by GOD, out the 3 million saved, only 2 walked into the promised land doing faith.
The rest died, I assume as unsaved, some might have been saved? I don't mean to belittle Hebrew examples of salvation, but they as a people are no better at demonstrating salvation than the Chinese people are.
And the word Judean refers to where certain "cross over people" live.
D"2nd Temple period – it was common knowledge R" Than the book of Enoch should be inspired than, and thus included in the common received Hebrew torah.... why wasn't it, if copied from that far back?
RP" If biology is difficult and suffering, D" Who said Jesus sinned? R" I goofed, not edited correctly....I have removed the sentence
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 13, 2022 5:31:59 GMT -5
D"Co 15:50 Now I say this, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and what decays cannot inherit what does not decay. However in heaven a sinless biology is allowed, YES – after the quickening – after the change from earthly clothing of flesh to heavenly clothing1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruptibility YES – after the quickening – after the change from earthly clothing of flesh to heavenly clothing No such thing as 3D physical incorruptibility – all matter come with entropyRP" Mt 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom. Biological function here mentioned in heaven D" NOPE – the gathering together of the Jews from all the nation to fight the final battle R" What.? Again no discussion from Dave, so I have to ask you to explain yourself. You deny the spirit – all you have is world and biologyMat 26:26 Now while they were eating, Yeshua took matzah; and after He offered the bracha, He broke and gave to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.” Mat 26:27 And He took a cup; and after giving thanks, He gave to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you; Mat 26:28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the removal of sins. Mat 26:29 But I say to you, I will never drink of this fruit of the vine from now on, until that day when I drink it anew with you in My Father’s kingdom.” The Gospel of PhilipSome are afraid lest they rise naked. Because of this they wish to rise in the flesh, and they do not know that it is those who wear the flesh who are naked. It is those who [...] to unclothe themselves who are not naked. "Flesh and blood shall not inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Co 15:50). What is this which will not inherit? This which is on us. But what is this, too, which will inherit? It is that which belongs to Jesus and his blood. Because of this he said "He who shall not eat my flesh and drink my blood has not life in him" (Jn 6:53). What is it? His flesh is the word, and his blood is the Holy Spirit. He who has received these has food and he has drink and clothing.Re 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Two years ago you demanded this was a spiritual eventI don't think the physical descent is as important as the adopted spiritual grafting of all people into Jesus, and His blood line. Now you deny the spirit because I preach spiritualityThe wedding feast comes with food and drink, biology in heaven. "He who shall not eat my flesh and drink my blood has not life in him" (Jn 6:53). What is it? His flesh is the word, and his blood is the Holy Spirit. He who has received these has food and he has drink and clothing.”
D"Does this mean that God is directing each and every action of the archon - rediculas? Your robot talk is NONSENSE Why does your god have to tell every animal where to go - what to eat - when to sleep R" You haven't thought this through properly and thoroughly like I have Dave. You state the creatures have no free will. Now you are saying this idea is bogus. If an animal has no free will, it cannot think or make cognitive decisions, or choices.Free Will is the choice between God and WorldIf you become a plumber or a teacher – has nothing to do with FREE WILL To eat meat or not – has nothing to do with FREE WILL To turn left or right at an intersection – has nothing to do with FREE WILL So in my view no free will means a robotic creature, programmed to do what the program says.Correct – and the programming of animals = go forth be fruitful and multiply – (yester ra) Correct - and the programming for man = go forth be fruitful and multiply and subdue, conquer, and dominate (yester ra) And free will means an animal with cognitive ability to think, make choices and have intelligence.There are a lot of intelligent people that do not choose God Thinking as (yester ra) has nothing to do with the FREE WILL to return to God as the Prodigal SonThe problem has arisen from you not discussing what you mean by free will, you do not write discussions and so I am left to assume meanings you do not intend. BULL SHIT – you cannot remember the conversation from yesterday or last week FREE WILL – id the ability to choose God or WORLD – I have always said this RP" (1) How can the SHAD do this outside of their programmed design? They have no free will. D" Their programming R" SO I take this to mean, you agree the archons have no free will, but their programming caused them to become a false witness and hence worthy of the second death? Correct – angels have NO FREE WILL – they do as they were designed – praise and serve – (yester tov)Correct – animals have NO FREE WILL- they do as they are designed – (yester ra)Correct – the BEAST is a thing of this world – they have NO FREE WILL – they do as they are designed – (yester ra)Man is the creature that can choose – because we are (yester tov)+(yester ra)---------------------- Please answer this question and post some discussions. RP" SO they cannot do moral sin. D" a group of about 200 - violated the commandment – to reproduce after their own kind R" NOW you completely contradict me, and yourself? You say this because you refuse to acknowledge the reality of (yester ra) You don’t want to know – so you can keep asking question from ignornce
Now Dave says the archons have free will, and also can morally sin? Talk about a turn around? Care to explain yourself Dave? STOP MISSREPRESENTING ME – JUDAISM – an MAINSTREAM CHRISTIANITY As spiritual creatures (unseen) they do (yester ra) When 200 of them or so – took on mortal form – they (yester ra) within mortality These 200 are held in chains – in prison – Jude + 2 Peter - Enoch These 200 will be again released upon man – to sting but NOT kill man for 5 months – Rev 9--------------------------------- D"So all the worlds was given the Torah and became Jewish - wrong R" Are you for real? Why would GOD want a Chinese person to be saved as a Jew? FINALLY – Now answer my question – WHY did God leave the 99% to other godsWhy did God choose the 1% (Israel) to Jer 1:5 to the 99%Can't YHWH-people become "spiritual Jews" not literal people living in Judea.YES – the entire POINT of Jesus Christ and ChristianityToo bad you deny the spiritD"2nd Temple period – it was common knowledge R" Than the book of Enoch should be inspired than, and thus included in the common received Hebrew torah.... why wasn't it, if copied from that far back? Your passage – Psa 78:29Psa 78:1 A contemplative song of Asaph. Listen, my people, to my teaching. Turn your ears to the words of my mouth. Psa 78:2 I will open my mouth with a parable. I will utter perplexing sayings from of old, Psa 78:3 which we have heard and known, and our fathers have told us. Psa 78:4 We will not hide them from their children, telling to the next generation the praises of Adonai and His strength and the wonders He has done. Psa 78:5 For He established a testimony in Jacob and ordained Torah in Israel, which He commanded our fathers to teach their children, Psa 78:6 so that the next generation might know, even the children yet to be born: they will arise and tell their children. Judaism 101 - The Temple Scrolls included – The Torah + the major Prophets + the Minor Prophets + the wisdom of their forefathers – weighted according to source
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2022 16:45:58 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
Why do you have to make your view so difficult, convoluted and confusing?
You flip flop, you never discussion and I get the impression you have never thought through your view at all, it changes back and forth all the time?
You say "YES – after the quickening – after the change from earthly clothing of flesh to heavenly clothing" So you allow in heaven a sinless biology AFTER it is Quickened.... DUH, my view all along,
So tell me why you fight tooth and nail to say in heaven biology is banned, when biology is perfectly allowed AFTER it is quickened, OK, DUH?
Than in typical Dave style you flip flop again
"No such thing as 3D physical incorruptibility – all matter come with entropy"
And you write this is such brief brevity that nobody understands you and so I have to ask once again, please unpack you word salad, because you make no sense.
If the body is quickened Dave, the matter has all entropy removed in it? Is this so difficult for you? Or are you afraid to abandon your precious GG theory? Which is beginning to unravel?
DO you understand what a discussion is?
It's not quoting somebody else's opinion?
It's not quoting Gnostic writings?
No Dave has no idea how to rebuttal either?
So what am I supposed to do with your Gnostic quote?
I have to pretend to understand Dave's discussion, because it never is written?
D"Mat 26:28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the removal of sins. R" I thought your view has no sacrifice of Jesus to remove sins, yet you happily quote this verse?
Where is " the gathering together of the Jews from all the nation to fight the final battle" in this verse? "D" Because of this he said "He who shall not eat my flesh and drink my blood has not life in him" (Jn 6:53). What is it? His flesh is the word, and his blood is the Holy Spirit. He who has received these has food and he has drink and clothing.
Where is " the gathering together of the Jews from all the nation to fight the final battle" in this verse? So much for Dave's discussion and unpacking, you just showed me, you also make falsehoods.
Notice the subtle way the Gnostic view misquotes Scripture
"D" Because of this he said "He who shall not eat my flesh and drink my blood has not life in him" (Jn 6:53). What is it? His flesh is the word, and his blood is the Holy Spirit. He who has received these has food and he has drink and clothing.
This is a poetry simile
eating the flesh = eating the manna In Greek, eating the man in Hebrew
It's a Hebrew physical simile pointing to the meaning of Jesus power in the WORD supporting you by faith.
NOT learning more WORDs of GNOSIS as your GG theory claims
drinking the blood is a simile of life (verse tells you)
The power of living comes from the Divine via the HS, into humans as the "breath of life", but in this sense, as Salvation, this is a "breath of salvation".
So the similes are NOT speaking about flesh and blood at all, but about the POWER of JESUS and the LIVING Jesus grants you when the sinner lives in Jesus via Faith.
But Gnostic make no similes, Gnostic say the flesh is the word, and the blood is the Holy Spirit. And who ever has these (words and HS) have drink and clothing.
These ideas are false. It gives you a totally different view of Scripture and salvation.
You just require words and the HS. You do not need biology, you only need spirit.
Where is " the gathering together of the Jews from all the nation to fight the final battle" in this verse? Not a single mention of any final battle from Dave?
-----------------------------------
D" Free Will is the choice between God and World If you become a plumber or a teacher – has nothing to do with FREE WILL To eat meat or not – has nothing to do with FREE WILL To turn left or right at an intersection – has nothing to do with FREE WILL R" You need to define "Free Will"
I am getting sick of dealing with your brevity and your lack of discussions?
I cannot stand this word game you play "free will" It's not a Hebrew word, so does not exist.
"Free Will is the choice" Dave that is the same as "reason" which is a Hebrew word. SO start defining the term.... and do not use cognitive reasoning.
RP" So in my view no free will means a robotic creature, programmed to do what the program says. D" Correct – and the programming of animals = go forth be fruitful and multiply – (yester ra) Correct - and the programming for man = go forth be fruitful and multiply and subdue, conquer, and dominate (yester ra) " R" Dave I am about to give up on you, flip flop writer, brevity Dave.
You agree a programmed animal doing yester ra has no free will.
But that you write a human with yester ra can also do the same thing, but has free will.
DO you understand anything in your mind? These creatures are totally different Dave
Animals have no free will Humans have free will
Therefore they both cannot do yester ra the same way...
D"Thinking as (yester ra) has nothing to do with the FREE WILL to return to God as the Prodigal Son R" I am getting the impression that "free will" is simply a "choice a creature makes to repent to God's salvation" Boy you are hard to talk to...
Isa 1:18 ...let us reason "yakach" together, Isa 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, Isa 1:20 But if ye refuse and rebel,
Now I suggest you stop using the term "free will"
A better term to use is "repent" or "reason and repent"
Such thinking comes from a cognitive mind, and all higher intelligent creatures have such intelligence.
D"BULL SHIT – you cannot remember the conversation from yesterday or last week R" See what problems I have to contend with? Why the emotional outburst?
So the archons are not thrown into the Lake of Fire because of false witnessing as you claim, not because they commit shape shift to have sex with humans, as you claim, but because (and one has to stick to Scripture)
Isa 1:18 ...let us reason "yakach" together, Isa 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, Isa 1:20 But if ye refuse and rebel,
But because they love SINNING, and refuse to repent.
Got nothing to do with programmed mind.
But because they "refuse and rebel," And love their scarlet sins.
"Like the movie I watch "VENOM" , he was a loner, and possessed Eddie, also a loner. Funny how Venom stopped the rocket from collecting a million of his own kind, Venom watched earth to himself. The Masons do a great job mixing the sinning angel who sins, as a loner.
D"FREE WILL – id the ability to choose God or WORLD – I have always said this R" OK but this is nothing to do with programming.... creatures are not programmed Dave, nor robotic....
You have lead me astray with your theory, and you never pulled me up.
SO the angels in heaven do have cognitive abilities....
Isa 1:18 ...let us reason "yakach" together, Isa 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient,
They are reasoning to be willing and obedient and praise and do TOV things all the time because they choose to.
One prince angel decided to do
Isa 1:20 But if ye refuse and rebel,
And so was banished to earth, for His sins.
Now you have come over to my view, and I would like you to take up the verse you ignore....that a cherub sinned. ---------------------------------
But Dave sticks to this weird idea
RP" (1) How can the SHAD do this outside of their programmed design? They have no free will. D" Their programming R" SO I take this to mean, you agree the archons have no free will, but their programming caused them to become a false witness and hence worthy of the second death? D" Correct – angels have NO FREE WILL – they do as they were designed – praise and serve – (yester tov) Correct – animals have NO FREE WILL- they do as they are designed – (yester ra) Correct – the BEAST is a thing of this world – they have NO FREE WILL – they do as they are designed – (yester ra) Man is the creature that can choose – because we are (yester tov)+(yester ra)
R" I get the impression that "yester ra" is some ADDED component of the mind to think with animal instincts (for want of a better term)
And "yester tov" is more noble thinking. Angels have no free will, have "yester tov" Animals have no free will, have "yester ra" Humans have free will, have both "yester ra + tov"
So Angels cannot "Reason" their minds cannot make "sinning thoughts" And lower animals cannot "Reason" their minds cannot "make non-sinning thought" such animals always do "animal instincts (for want of a better term)
And humans can "Reason" doing both sinning and choosing not to do sinning.
Question" How come Alex the parrot made questions of higher thinking about love?
How come a panther ate the mother monkey, but seeing the baby, decides to nurture it, rather than eat it too, until the baby dies from lack of proper nutrition and care?
Suddenly your ideas of animals with "yester ra" thinking ALL the time is BOGUS?
And the verse you ignore, cherub sinned, tells me that angels can reason to choose sins or not to do sins.
Again your Gnostic ideas are BOGUS.
(1) If the Father wanted to create a creature capable of certain limitations of yester ra, in an intelligent creature, just to test human free will, don't you think the Father is capable of such programming Dave?
But instead the Father has to dispose of the creature in the Lake of Fire, not much of a programmer is your god?
D"You say this because you refuse to acknowledge the reality of (yester ra) You don’t want to know – so you can keep asking question from ignornce R" No Dave, I am perfectly aware of the "programmed abilities of yester ra" and that the Father could have wired into the mind limitations of thinking, so the creature would do so much and no more? How come cows do yester ra as a program totally differently to lions with yester ra ? No Dave, something wrong with your theory.
D"STOP MISSREPRESENTING ME – JUDAISM – an MAINSTREAM CHRISTIANITY R" Dave I watched VENOM last night, the demon decided to stop eating all humans, Eddie said you can eat only really bad humans, but not good humans? How can I discern which is which, VENOM said? You will learn Eddie said. So VENOM agrees.
Like I said Dave, your theory is BOGUS, like the movie VENOM is bogus, the sinning angel would never agree to be nice and kind while also evil and cruel.
With all bad movies, the bad loses trust and shoot the other bad, greed, lack of trust,...etc
Stop blaming the programming, that suggests the Father cannot write programs very well. Well cows and lions both have yester ra, and I have never seen a cow maul a animal for food, there programming is stable, (I use your view).
RP" Can't YHWH-people become "spiritual Jews" not literal people living in Judea. D" YES – the entire POINT of Jesus Christ and Christianity R" OK so why raise the weird questions than?
RP" R" Than the book of Enoch should be inspired than, and thus included in the common received Hebrew torah.... why wasn't it, if copied from that far back? D" No answer. You copies other stuff?
If the book of Enoch was inspired, it should be copied over and over for 2000 years, along with other Hebrew, but it wasn't. In the dead Seas Scrolls we have over 50 copies of Isaiah. How many copies of Genesis? 4 maybe 11 if I remember? And how many copies of the Book of Enoch? Major scroll quoted 60 times in the Tanak? That should tell you?
Shalom
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