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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 13:34:28 GMT -5
Nice verses Dave. Don't these verse simply show that GOD is smart and fully knows the future? But mankind starting as an egg from the womb doesn't know this?
Dave:"From God we came and to God we will return
IMO, I would never say this. It implies GOD places our entire life, thoughts and decisions, character and doings, into the egg, before it is conceived, ie "from God we came". No wonder GOD knows all things than, it removes free will doesn't it? Personally while I agree GOD is super smart, I would not go where you have written.
You didn't make any comments on the Jewish video, they mix terms "ruwach" and "nephesh".
You're saying when the Holy Spirit comes upon dust, the Holy Spirit part is our soul of character, memory and doings, the essence of us in our thoughts, simply now connected to a dusty body? I don't see that at all.
I see the Holy Spirit empowers the living vital force of living into the dust, and we become living energy (literal meaning of nephesh) Before that the dust is only chemical energy, the stuff of matter, it can't make decisions, make character etc. Thus I see relationship here.
So you don't see relationship here? Explain. You can have it both ways. Once the living energy begins, sure GOD know it's future, but we don't.
The relationship of dust with GOD continues only if we will this.
Is there are difference here between us, the Jewish idea the soul never dies? I think so.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 18, 2019 0:09:56 GMT -5
Dave:"From God we came and to God we will return IMO, I would never say this. If your soul didn’t come from God – it evolved (evolution) BS If your soul doesn’t return to God – then I feel sad for you Quote me – again your making stuff up You confuse Mind with Soul – whatever your Mind chooses to do is up to your Mind and your conscious Your God is not-absolute / your God is not omnipotent / omniscient Shame on you Catholic – your God is less than my God Holy Spirit is the medium through which our Soul are able to commune with God – because HS = God Character / memory / and doings is a choice of the Mind Again – you do not know / understand the difference Your Soul is not your thoughts Fish and snails make Mind decision all day long
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2019 2:40:39 GMT -5
Dave: "Holy Spirit is the medium through which our Soul are able to commune with God – because HS = God Character / memory / and doings is a choice of the Mind Again – you do not know / understand the difference
Your right, I don't understand.
Mind is different to soul. OK Ruwach is the medium through which Soul communes with GOD. OK
So why do Jews see soul as immortal? If the Holy Spirit leaves us, the medium stops empowering us, we sleep in death, the soul disappears.
Like this analogy
Me, superCreator, take nails and 6 panels of plywood and make it together into a box.
But if I remove the nails, and the panels of plywood fall into a heap, where does the box I made, go? It disappears.
If you check out nephesh, it has two forms, verb and noun. The verb form means "energize" and the noun forms means "living-energy".
If the divinity removes itself from you, the living energy goes to chemical energy, the living part of you is no more. Like a dead battery, has chemical energy in it, all the parts, but not charged by GOD, hence dies.
So explain how Jews see nephesh as immortal, or never dies?
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Post by Dave on Dec 18, 2019 8:23:12 GMT -5
Dave: "Holy Spirit is the medium through which our Soul are able to commune with God – because HS = God Character / memory / and doings is a choice of the Mind Again – you do not know / understand the differenceYour right, I don't understand. Fish, snails, slugs, cows, and pigs all have a minds – duh They are (Mind-Body) Their minds learn as they age – their minds compute – duh None of them have a Soul – only Man – this is why we have a duality of choice We are (Soul + Mind-Body) Choose guidance of the Mind that is carnal – or choose guidance of the soul which is eternal Only man has this choice – man is the creature that can choose IMMORTALITY OF THE SOUL (late Hebrew, "hasharat ha-nefesh"; "ḥayye 'olam") www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/8092-immortality-of-the-soulMaybe we should discuss how the Jews taught the resurrection of the soul 100% Jewish - before Christ
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Post by Dave on Dec 18, 2019 10:53:56 GMT -5
Christians run around telling me that I do not have to wear a yamaka. Explain, is this a Jewish cap in their head? YES - I wear one in public - especially in churches I am a hat wearer - have been since 1977 An Amish guy - whom I respect greatly - told me once I can do things in front of my wife that I cannot do in front of you I can do things in front of you, that I cannot do in front of the boss Imagine the things I cannot do if Jesus Christ was standing right here The brim on his hat is a reminder that he was OVERSHADOWED by a higher power A personal reminder - I LIKE IT and have worn a hat since Christian church life with a hat on - is problematic I satarted wearing a Kippah hat about 5 years ago for church I walk in with my hat on - very disrespectful But once someone asks me to remove it - I EXPOSE my Kippah - suddenly I am orthodox My girls are in two community choirs - they practice and perform at churches I am always there with Kippah - just to be different If I have an anti-christmas attitude - no one challanges the Kippah I do not wear it because I think it required Do you know the sctripture that support hat wearing? We cover our shame for being less than perfect in the presence of the Lord (Which is everywhere) Yet - Christian all take their hats off inside God's House - 100% backwards and 100% Catholic It is my BILLBOARD for the LORD - I dress the part - I come from Amish country - I get it Advertisement for the Lord - "oh look, one of those relegious zealots" - thats me
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 0:32:32 GMT -5
Greetings Dave, two posts (1) --------------------- www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/8092-immortality-of-the-soul By: Kaufmann Kohler
The belief that the soul continues its existence after the dissolution of the body is a matter of philosophical or theological speculation rather than of simple faith, and is accordingly nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture.Reading your link, first sentence is a corker. He has the immortality of the soul is "accordingly nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture". Dave" "None of them have a Soul – only Man Really? Scripture for this? All living things have breath of life, to make them "living energy". Though Creation Science has different opinion? They exclude insects, plants, etc. (2) ------------------------- Nice writing Dave. Love you playful style with your kids. Where does it say in Scripture to wear this cap thing? I am aware of wearing the fringes of blue on our clothing, but not sure about cap on our heads? Like the reason why you wear a hat... God bless your ministry
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Post by Dave on Dec 19, 2019 3:23:04 GMT -5
(1) --------------------- www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/8092-immortality-of-the-soul
The belief that the soul continues its existence after the dissolution of the body is a matter of philosophical or theological speculation rather than of simple faith, and is accordingly nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture.Reading your link, first sentence is a corker. He has the immortality of the soul is "accordingly nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture". Gee – should have read more than one sentence “In IV Maccabees, also (ix. 8, 22; x. 15; xiv. 5; xv. 2; xvi. 13; xvii. 5, 18), immortality of the soul is represented as life with God in heaven, and declared to be the reward for righteousness and martyrdom. The souls of the righteous are transplanted into heaven and transformed into holy souls (ib. xiii. 17, xviii. 23)” www.britannica.com/topic/The-Books-of-the-MaccabeesThe Books of the Maccabees, Maccabees also spelled Machabees, four books, none of which is in the Hebrew Bible but all of which appear in some manuscripts of the Septuagint. The first two books only are part of canonical scripture in the Septuagint and the Vulgate (hence are canonical to Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy) and are included in the Protestant Apocrypha.
Maccabees – Written in Hebrew teach immortality of the soul and Jewish resurrection It comes after the close of the Tanak – but give the Jews Chanukah Maccabees – helps identify the abomination desolation And the rededication of the Temple after Pentecost Only man has a Soul - we are (Soul + Mind-Body) Other animals are just (Mind-Body) This is what makes man different If animals have souls – why don’t you preach salvation of Jesus Christ to the mice / insects / cows? Why? – because they lack the ability to choose
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Post by Dave on Dec 19, 2019 12:45:17 GMT -5
Dave" "None of them have a Soul – only Man Really? Scripture for this? All living things have breath of life, to make them "living energy". Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be food for you; Your God tells Noah it is OK to KILL and EAT other souls – ridicules Why doesent this include canabalism man is a moving living thing?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 13:43:50 GMT -5
Dave when you move far away from GOD, the darkness increases, and GOD deals with your standing in the darkness your standing in, new rules of living... does this violate GOD older rules of living? or is this a problem with you, not GOD?
Or does GOD always tell us all things truth, even to a human who does need such truth right now cause he is in deep darkness? Surely GOD leads you where you are, in the darkness, out of darkness.
I try to live a vegan, non GMO, non poisonous world, free from all ra. This is what I believe Eden originally was like, and I try to live in this, because GOD created me to live that way, not to eat meat, though there are texts its OK to eat meat, etc. We need to consider were those people were in their walk of darkness.
Remember the darkness experiment....God makes RA observable without personally doing Ra Himself. The rules of living change...doesn't Paul speak of living in tov is beyond the letter of the torah? wow... where rules do not need to be written...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 13:59:21 GMT -5
Dave: " Only man has a Soul - we are (Soul + Mind-Body) Other animals are just (Mind-Body) This is what makes man different If animals have souls – why don’t you preach salvation of Jesus Christ to the mice / insects / cows? Why? – because they lack the ability to choose
If animals have souls – why don’t you preach salvation of Jesus Christ to the mice / insects / cows?
Because these creatures did not sin, man sinned.
I have no doubt these creatures have mind, and can think like humans can, to a degree. Our brains are bigger.
The Scriptures says animals ruwach goes downward and humans go upward when they both die... suggests the Holy Spirit only takes the records of humans and their doings to heaven, not animals....
It's the mind that chooses, the soul is just the stuff that makes the mind alive, to choose and think. Animals have nephesh (soul) too like humans do.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 20, 2019 12:41:06 GMT -5
Yet - animals break the 10 commandments all the time Animals have spirit - agree
and God said it is ok to kill and eat them
You can call it soul - breath - essence - or anything you want animals are not on the same level as man Only man can choose = only man's soul is eternal
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Post by Dave on Dec 20, 2019 12:43:15 GMT -5
Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be food for you; Your God tells Noah it is OK to KILL and EAT other souls – ridicules Why doesent this include canabalism man is a moving living thing? [/quote] Either man has never followed Torah - or your unserstanding is in error Why doesn't this include canabalism? - Or dose it?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2019 13:40:08 GMT -5
Ge 2:16 ¶ And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: (before sinning)
Ge 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; (after sinning)
Ge 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. (clean animals)
Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be food for you; (eating clean animals)
You will notice Dave, as you move further from tov towards ra, the torah rules change.
Have you considered this?
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Post by Dave on Dec 21, 2019 5:41:41 GMT -5
You will notice Dave, as you move further from tov towards ra, the torah rules change.Have you considered this? YEP! - thats what Paul and the Catholics say The Torah is not absolute - it can be diluted to fit the religion It is OK - God will forgive - Right? Jesus said - Mat 5:17-20 The Torah does not change and anyone who says it does is the last in heaven
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2019 14:30:06 GMT -5
Mt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil "complete". 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one "yud" or one "Hebrew meaning" shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled "complete". 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Dave: The Torah is absolute - Torah cannot be diluted to fit the religion (I re-write your words)
Rob: I agree with this, BUT "As you move further from tov towards ra, the torah rules change."
Ga 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour like {God loves you}.
So compact torah down to a single word, it's LOVE.
Love is all TOV all the time, not a single trace of ra in love. So how do people walking in ra, understand the moral standard of love, when a mix of tov and ra feels like love to them? They require further details of torah to help them. Otherwise they don't know.
Hence the ten commandments are details of love for people who walk in ra and tov. That's why the ten directions of love are written for RA walkers, not TOV walkers.
Consider the RA walkers:-
Ga 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like:
Some of these RA affects are NOT clearly defined in the ten rules of love, Adultery is, but not fornication, being unclean isn't, murder is, but not envy?? getting drunk on alcohol is not found in the ten commandments is it? but its a RA affect all the same.
Consider the TOV walkers
Ga 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Many of these are not written clearly in the Ten Commandments, can you in fact write them? Is love able to be written down as a bunch of rules?
For example, no steal is for the RA walkers, but sharing is for the TOV walkers...
Circumcising the flesh on the penis, was written why? For RA walkers....
What is the real circumcising GOD intended? Is there one?
De 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. for TOV walkers
How can a human obey this torah law, and still live? He can't. Its a torah law humans can't keep while walking in RA. Its a law God does for you when you walk in Tov.
Ps 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; for TOV walkers
David knew this torah law, and wanted it...
Joh 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? Nicodemus didn't understand the torah laws at all? that's because he was walking in Ra
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Jesus was referring to man entering the womb of the Holy Spirit, to be born again... What's wrong with our first natural birth?
DNA propensities are there, for one thing, need to be removed, thus requiring a whole DNA change in our epigenetic code...
Introduction: Many say that life just came to be and rambled along through random mutations and natural selection becoming increasingly more and more complex with specific intelligent information stored on the DNA, thus giving arise to new species of living organisms. Can this even be a Christian concept in any modifed form ? Absolutely not!!
{1BC 1086.2} Not one noxious plant was placed in the Lord's great garden, but after Adam and Eve sinned, poisonous herbs sprang up. In the parable of the sower the question was asked the Master, "Didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? how then hath it tares?" The Master answered, "An enemy hath done this." All tares are sown by the evil one. Every noxious herb is of his sowing, and by his ingenious methods of amalgamation he has corrupted the earth with tares (MS 65, 1899) [published in F. D. Nichol, Ellen G. White and Her Critics].
What does amalgamation mean in the Bible, and is there any evidence?
Amalgamation may also be the Scientist under the inspiration of Satan,making things of "divers kinds", in other words using technology to invent living things not designed by GOD. See our article on the danger of GMO foods.
Ps 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity "aven", and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth "yalad" falsehood.
The above Bible verse is profound and a key text. It describes the evil one making born "aven", which we will discover leads to Evolution, and the corruption of all life forms designed by GOD perfectly during Creation.
Evolution is a term Satan uses, and refers to deliberate DNA changes to cause inherited changes to the DNA of mankind, "ie aven - the potential for decay" upon the human DNA.
Translation issues do not understand "aven" is a genetic term in the Bible.
Jeff Benner translates these two forms as action words, vigor and vanity (its opposite).
The Bible has two meanings for the “strong fixed seed” Hebrew “Aven” :-
•(1) The power within the gene pool for functional work or • (2) The power within the gene pool for dysfunctional work.
In a positive sense through Jesus our gene pool can have vigor as it receives divine strength from GOD.
In a negative sense through Satan our gene pool can express propensities of vanity that make us do wickedness in the sight of GOD.
Isa 59:4 None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth "talad" (born) iniquity "aven" "genetic propensities".
• 5 They hatch cockatrice' eggs, and weave the spider's web: he that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out into a viper.
Ps 6:8 ¶ Depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity(propensities of vanity), for the LORD hath heard the voice of my weeping.
How sad that peer group pressure is the greatest threat to the development of our own "Strong secure Seeds" either for vigor (good) or propensities for vanity (bad)?
Satan is appealing to the lowest propensities of human nature. But these do not need cultivation, like thistles and briers, selfishness, self-love, envying, jealousy, evil surmising, self-esteem, will grow up luxuriantly if only left to themselves. {1888 419.1}
Ellen White writes correct Ancient Hebrew thought, the "Strong secure Seeds over the people" are the potentials for vigour or the potential for vanity , depending upon who we awaken those genes and whom is empowering them.
Now lets test for propensities or "Strong secure seeds" in the New Testament.
Indulgence of appetite strengthens the animal propensities, giving them the ascendancy over the mental and spiritual powers. "Abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul," is the language of the apostle Peter. Many regard this warning as applicable only to the licentious; but it has a broader meaning. It guards against every injurious gratification of appetite or passion. It is a most forcible warning against the use of such stimulants and narcotics as tea, coffee, tobacco, alcohol, and morphine. {CD 62.4}
In her use of Scripture Ellen White opens to us the Bible meaning of “propensities”.Notice the Hebrew Scripture has broad principles for word meanings. The Greek word “sarkikos” is the lusts that war against the soul. Finding the Hebrew word for this is difficult, which we will see later on. This word is often termed “carnal” or “worldly”, now let’s see what happens if we term the word as “propensities”.
1Pe 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from propensities [which] lust, [and] war against the soul;
Suddenly the KJV comes alive when brought into Ellen White’s use of English meaning for modern times. We are to stay away from propensities which make us lust. Peter tells us to watch for our propensities to desire things that make war against our soul that is alive in GOD. The broad principle include all kinds of propensities, such as drugs, sugar, coffee, porn and rock music.
So Dave, the point of my including all this detail is, "aven" is about all the RA we do, that is not specifically written in the torah, but is there all the same, like drugs, sugar, coffee, porn and rock music.
There are different directions written as mankind walks in more and more RA, hence the torah changes for people living in more RA, leading them back to less RA, and more TOV.
This does not remove the torah directions of TOV or abolish the torah.
For example you wear a cap on your head, to remind you of your walk of RA before GOD, it keeps us humble, not proud. I like that. When I walk into an assembly, I bow my head near the door, offer the olah sacrifice of my mind to GOD, ( a Leviticus torah law) thanking Him I am humble only because of Him, and His doing, than sit down to read His words in Church. I don't wear a cap on my head, but I do the olah sacrifice as I come in. Keeping ourselves humble is important. Learning to beam love is even better.
The Roman edit is wrong, yes your right... Love thy neighbour as thyself is wrong...
Jeff Benner comments on this word, means "like"
The text actually should say 'Love thy neighbour LIKE God loves you'.
You cannot love self...impossible...love is relational, cannot be done on your own. So your right, the Roman edit confuses us at times.
Shalom
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