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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2019 15:59:05 GMT -5
Thank you for your reply Dave, but it didn't really answer those two critical questions, you tried, I know, but it leaves me unsatisfied...
I know many Scriptures seem confusing... you read them as saying GOD hardened their heart, God gave them a stiff neck heart... I don't see it that way...
While GOD cannot own the "love-response" in a relationship, God is the overall parent in the relationship, and thus takes responsibility . When Adam sinned, He blamed the wife in the relationship, when Eve sinned she blamed the Serpent in the relationship, and when the Serpent sinned, He blamed the Father in the relationship. The Father can't blame anybody, because He is the end of relationships, in a chain of authority. SO this is why I see Scriptures saying GOD did this or that. But who ate the fruit? Adam did by choice? Who listened to the serpent? Eve did by her choice? Who walked away from the Father Most High? Satan by his own choice?
It has to be that way, because that is how Hebrew reads, sorry I tend to see those things you show me as a very clever Deciever, wanting to escape personal attack...you don't consider this... that the Devil wrote both truth and lies, to escape personal attack?
The Nag Hammadi Library - Authoritative Teaching- why not Hebrew Scriptures only?
"And before anything came into being, it was the Father alone who existed, before the worlds that are in the heavens appeared, or the world that is on the earth, or principality, or authority, or the powers. [...] appear [...] and [...] And nothing came into being without his wish. correct
He, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear, (no reason given??) and make all those who contend leave behind the things that had come into being, and despise them with a lofty, incomprehensible knowledge, and flee to the one who exists."
Sure the Father wanted to bring into this special world created with both tov and ra (limited until Adam sinned) for a reason: Does the passage above explain WHY the contestants appeared? No it doesn't explain why?
But I answered and said to him, "Lord, we can obey you if you wish, for we have forsaken our fathers and our mothers and our villages, and followed you. Grant us, therefore, not to be tempted by the devil, the evil one." The Lord answered and said, "What is your merit if you do the will of the Father and it is not given to you from him as a gift while you are tempted by Satan? But if you are oppressed by Satan, and persecuted, and you do his (i.e., the Father's) will, I say that he will love you, and make you equal with me, and reckon you to have become beloved through his providence by your own choice.
Again the answer doesn't say WHY the Father allows Satan comes to us, only that the Father does, we are to do the will of the Father, choosing the Father rather than Satan is our choice.
The Gnostic answer – in all of the ALL – we are the only beings that are only aware of 3/10th of it – we are only visually aware of 3/10th of it – we are impaired / stunted / animal man is no longer visually fully aware – the withholding of our awareness is our fall – our first de-evolution – we were made immortal and could see the heavens. After Eve, we are mortal of about 1000 yrs and cannot see the heavens – this is the fall of man – gnosis in exchange for awareness
So if there was a fall of man, there cannot be tov and ra naturally made in man, before the fall?
THEN Adam wept and said, "O God, when we dwelt in the garden, and our hearts were lifted up, we saw the angels that sang praises in heaven, but now we do not see as we were used to do; nay, when we entered the cave, all creation became hidden from us." 2 Then God the Lord said unto Adam, "When thou wast under subjection to Me, thou hadst a bright nature within thee, and for that reason couldst thou see things afar off. But after thy transgression thy bright nature was withdrawn from thee; and it was not left to thee to see things afar off, but only near at hand; after the ability of the flesh; for it is brutish."
Notice the bright nature is now hidden because of Adam's sin... Where is this saying in Scripture?
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
The bright nature is a simile of the morning stars, a simile of the sons of GOD.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Humans who follow GOD become sons of GOD
Php 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
And when we do this, we become as bright natures in the world.
So what happens if our bright natures go wrong?
Am 5:26 But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves.
Some of us follow other star elohiym powers...
Who also could be a star elohiym apart from humans gone wrong?
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O "bright star", son of the morning! 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
This scripture suggest a bright star not opposes GOD and the Father Most High.
3 When Adam and Eve had heard these words from God, they went their way; praising and worshipping Him with a sorrowful heart. 4 And God ceased to commune with them.
Is this true? What happen to the conscience in Adam and Eve? Certainly the oral audible voice left them, yes, we hear only a quiet still small voice these days.
I have read and re-read your reply,,, it speaks of the end of a ra world, and all the contestants end their role in this ra world...and so begins a new tov world, with humans in it... different to angels because we have free will and angels don't... Some of what your present make no logical sense...
SO some Beings have what is a fake relationship, angels and GOD, serve GOD as some robotic response of tov all the time, and humans in a true relationship, who can serve GOD with tov, but sometimes we do ra, and one day in heaven we choose to do only tov.
Why have fake relationships and true relationships in the next perfect world of only all tov?
It is so much easier to say in the beginning all relationships are based on love, all the angels choose to do tov, because that is their love response.
But for some reason, unknown to us all, one cherub decided to no longer respond with love, he wanted to respond differently.
How is this even possible? It's not, unless the Father allows the wrong love response to become observable... this is why the Scriptures write the Father does this of that...but whom did the wrong love response first? The creature did, not the Creator?
You don't see this, whereas I do... it's in Scripture too...
1Sa 16:14 ¶ But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
There are two "ruwach" words in this sentence, with the word LORD written twice. Let's write the adjectives in for "ruwach", and the relationships as well.
1Sa 16:14 part a: But the Holy Spirit of YHWH departed from Saul. 1Sa 16:14 part b: And an evil spirit of YHWH troubled Saul.
There are three relationships written here... 1) YHWH 2) (tov-ruwach or ra-ruwach) 3) Saul
Read where the ra-ruwach comes from:
1Sa 16:1 ¶ And the LORD said unto Samuel, How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel? 1Sa 15:11 It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. 1Sa 15:19 Wherefore then didst thou not obey the voice of the LORD, but didst fly upon the spoil, and didst evil in the sight of the LORD? 1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king. 1Sa 15:24 ¶ And Saul said unto Samuel, I have sinned: 1Sa 15:26 And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee: for thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, and the LORD hath rejected thee from being king over Israel.
The Scriptures do not identify who the Being of "witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry" is? Can we identify this Being?
Eze 21:21 For the king of Babylon stood at the parting of the way, at the head of the two ways, to use divination: he made his arrows bright, he consulted with images, he looked in the liver.
Here is a verse that links one word, line upon another line, the King Of Confusion, the King of Heaven, The King of Babylon, is identified...
Does Scripture identify whom this King of Confusion is?
Re 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
This is a Being with a false religious power, al the nations drink...
Re 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Re 17:7 ¶ And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition:
Rome was once a kingdom under Babylon, seven heads, seven hills,
But notice the beast ascends out of the bottomless pit..
Re 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
This beast power is full of devils... is there a prince of devils, a leader or general over the demons, the devils, who leads the city of confusion?
Summary
There are three relationships written here... 1) YHWH 2) (tov-ruwach or ra-ruwach) 3) Saul
But we have seen the evils powers of confusion cannot exist on their own, being opposed to GOD they have to be made observable...so how is this made observable? The word ruwach tells you.. it's a medium word, wind is invisible and functions as media, carrying the energy of GOD upon it, as an agency. This is why Confusion is written as Babylon the mystery...the mother of all harlots....GOD makes this confusion observable to us, but is not the father of demons, devils and this ra confusion.
Who is the father than?
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. (KJV)
Thus there are two fathers in heaven , one provides only all tov, the other provides only all ra. The administration of both providers is made observable by the Holy Spirit who functions as an agency, or medium, allowing both to be observable.
Thus we have two relationships over Saul:
1) YHWH 2) SATAN
It says Saul left following YHWH and followed Satan, sinning He admits.
So if you do sinning, YHWH leaves you and so YHWH allows a different relationship to flood over you because of your choice.
You say in time humans will live in a tov world without testing... wow...can't wait for that? What no more archons? No more Satan? Really... if you agree to this...? than why create a world of tov and ra for man in the first place and than create another world without ra in it? Your answer doesn't satisfy my question...
Whereas mine does. The only thing not answered by Scripture is why did an angel closest to Jesus in the God head, began slowly to choose not to make a tov love response? Scripture doesn't answer this. There is no answer. It's as mysterious as where did GOD come from originally. Scripture doesn't answer that question either.
Happy Sabbath Dave: God's blessings to you.
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Post by Dave on Nov 29, 2019 19:53:05 GMT -5
Exo 9:12 And Jehovah hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them, as Jehovah had spoken unto Moses. Exo 9:35 And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the children of Israel go, as Jehovah had spoken by Moses.
I know you don’t like it – but there it is
We are made with yester ra because we are animal We are made with yester tov because our Soul is the breath of life All was well until the first “choice” of chata
You completely miss read the verse. We have our bright natures withheld – unless you say you have the ability to see into the heavens and see the music that the angel sing
You should read it some more – After ra is consumed in the lake of fire – what comes next? – Rev 21 and 22 – you doubt this is God’s plan – you expect your satan god to change this? Are angels there? Don’t know – didn’t say – if they are in the Book of Life Remember – the angels are judged by man – I hope I get to vote
Evil Spirit of YHWH – curious – how can you continue to uphold the tov only God idea Unless evil spirits are tov working for the Lord – is this what you are saying – evil spirit and God on the same side?
The being = Allah Mystery Babylon = Mecca The wine = oil Upon her forehead is written – ‘There is no God but Allah’
Which five of those seven hill have fallen? And the whole world is not drunk on Rome’s wine – or false religion Only the western culture is – not the whole world 2/3rd of this world spits on the western culture and it’s Christian religion But the entire world is drunk with oil
When mystery Babylon is burning – how can the ships in the Red Sea see Rome burn? When all the cities of Mystery Babylon are mentioned – they are all in Arabia not Italy Revelation was written to Turkey – not Europe
Two fathers in heaven – two creators A Father of tov and indirectly a Mother of ra (when the HS created the Chief Archon But Father of tov and Mother of ra are not really two creators Unless you want to argure that God and Christ are two creators Trinity -
The Rabbinic question = if heaven is the goal, why not just place us there from the beginning The answer to him and you = you are not purified – you would burn to death in the presence of the Lord – you do not deserve it
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2019 3:41:41 GMT -5
Exo 9:12 And Jehovah hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them, as Jehovah had spoken unto Moses. Exo 9:35 And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the children of Israel go, as Jehovah had spoken by Moses.
I know you don’t like it – but there it is"
You change the comments from Saul to Pharaoh .... what about the texts I showed you about Saul?
Saul sinned, and continually sinned, and thus GOD responded with allowing an evil spirit to enter in. You're saying this evil spirit is on the same side as God's holy spirit? Both a natural design in God's creation? This is wrong.... a ra spirit, is fathered by Satan, Jesus says, a murderer from the beginning. Our heavenly Father is always ever tov.
1Sa 16:1 ¶ And the LORD said unto Samuel, How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel? 1Sa 15:11 It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. 1Sa 15:19 Wherefore then didst thou not obey the voice of the LORD, but didst fly upon the spoil, and didst evil in the sight of the LORD? 1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king. 1Sa 15:24 ¶ And Saul said unto Samuel, I have sinned: 1Sa 15:26 And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee: for thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, and the LORD hath rejected thee from being king over Israel.
This story would also work for Pharaoh. They both sin, so the Father responds. Your saying the Father first responds and than the creatures sin. NO. The creatures sin, than the Father responds to that sinning. The author of the sinning is you.
GOD responds to relationships, If you miss GOD's love, you become more in the dark. How come you don't see that? That's what "choshek" means "a dark relationship".
Ge 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and "a dark-relationship" was upon the face of the deep.
You need to ask the Hebrew, where this "dark-relationship" came from?
Ps 18:11 He made "a dark-relationship" his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.
Wow...
Ps 18:28 For thou wilt light my candle: the LORD my God will enlighten my dark-relationship.
Notice the contrast, candle light for us, GOD shines on our dark-relationship
Ps 105:28 He sent dark-relationship, and made it dark "chashak"; and they rebelled not against his word.
Notice the two Hebrew words translated correctly, both can't mean "dark"...one means "dark" the other "dark-relationships". They are similar in meaning, but different.
Dave says: "
We are made with yester ra because we are animal We are made with yester tov because our Soul is the breath of life All was well until the first “choice” of chata
Rob replies: "
That is ridiculous. So in our natural creation, our natural DNA, we are already animal with carnal natures, like animals have?
Your also splitting the formation of man into two parts. What are you saying?
Where does Scripture say nephesh is the breath of life? Scripture says GOD breathed into "the material-dust" adamah , with the breath (Holy Spirit) of life, and this formation (relationship) BECAME a living soul, adam.
Dave: "You completely miss read the verse. We have our bright natures withheld
Yes, perhaps.
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
isn't the angels bright natures here, shouting for joy over God's creation?
Ro 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Can't humans also get back our bright natures, as the unfallen angels do?
Php 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
We are sons of GOD, shinning our bright natures, because GOD is in us.
What about if those bright natures come from somewhere else?
Am 5:26 But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves.
Here is a Hebrew term "star-elohiym"... It aligns with the Father's command:
Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods "elohiyms" before me.
Are there any heavenly authorities also claiming to be "star-elohiyms" apart from our heavenly Father?
But you say this is impossible as all heavenly bodies and beings are on the same side as the Father, ie Satan is a good angel doing a bad job? So this commandment is false, there are no other heavenly elohiyms, so called even?
There has to be otherwise, Exodus commandments would not start off with do not worship other heavenly authorities, other "star-elohiym" apart from the Father.
DO you see this verse and it's intent?
Dave: "You should read it some more – After ra is consumed in the lake of fire – what comes next? – Rev 21 and 22 – you doubt this is God’s plan – you expect your satan god to change this?
You say ra was created by GOD. You say the Holy Spirit created the chief Archon. This suggests GOD does both tov and ra. Jews agree with this idea, but somehow GOD loves the tov and disdains the ra. All this for testing. And when the testing is all over, ra is dumped into the lake of nonexistence, and the next creation is all tov, no more ra.
And no "satan-god" can change this. This fallen "satan-god" is a fallen cherub, a created creature, a different heavenly elohiym opposing the YHWH-elohiym... no creature is a Creator, hence the Father-elohiym is above and more powerful than the star-elohiym, claiming the Father's authority.
But you don't consider this, the tov and ra were created for no particular reason, just to test mankind, as heaven is a burning man could not endure, if all tov were created in the first place, and mankind was placed there? Really?
Well of course a creature with both ra and tov placed in a heaven of all tov, will burn up, because we are not able to endure. But what if mankind was made all tov in the Adam creation, than could not Adam and his family of generations endure heaven forever without ra, if ra was never a part of God's design?
But you don't answer the question, why create ra in the first place? You keep beating around the bush... When Adam and Eve were created, they didn't sin first up. SO they happily existed for years without ra troubling them. Obviously they weren't animals with some ra desire?
Dave: "The Rabbinic question = if heaven is the goal, why not just place us there from the beginning The answer to him and you = you are not purified – you would burn to death in the presence of the Lord – you do not deserve it
This doesn't answer the question: What if GOD created a universe of all tov, and placed mankind there with all tov, would he not love forever with all tov? What is there to burn, if there is no missing in your creation or your relationship with GOD?
What's deserve got to do with it? Did any of the angels deserve creating? Yet they happily praise and sing and do their duties, even if they have free will, or don't have free will?
IMO: I would imagine even dumb dogs on earth have free will like humans do... why do you consider animals as dumb robotic servants of GOD? Have you never read of lions doing kindness against so called natural instinct, assuming this man-made term exists? If you pat a dog, he loves you back, if you whack a dog's head, he growls. Is this not free will responding to a love response of tov and or a disdain response of ra?
Scripture as Solomon writes, the animals ruwach goes downward and for mankind goes upward, when we die, suggesting that only for mankind is salvation made possible.
But you have suggested GOD has robotic relationships and free will relationships. IMO all relationships created by GOD are based on free will. Including plants. Plants can talk to humans, and have memory, and make a love response. But trees are not saved by God because like animals they did not bring missing into their world. Humans did. IMO the pineal gland was originally created to allow humans to communicate to plants and animals and GOD, but this function is shut down since Adam sinned.
I see relationships of love as important... all based on only tov.
You cannot rationalize where the ra response comes from, only that is was created by GOD, and the Holy Spirit created the Chief Archon, now termed Satan. How convenient for Satan, the fallen cherub, to be able to deceive people, and avoid personal attack? To blame his sinning on the Father GOD, thus avoiding personal responsibility for his actions.
You have made a concept of GOD into a god of love and hate, of good and evil, of a god who does both destroying and creating... because He can...what a strange god you serve?
We both have a god of relationships, the Jews have a battle of yester ra and thus try with God's help do only yester tov. Thus they earn their salvation by doing yester tov in their own human strength. This concept of salvation is wrong. Means nothing to God.
IMO the GOD of relationships is only about tov relationships. We have a GOD who rules over us, because we allow this ruling. However back in time an unfallen angel decided to sin, becoming by itself a Chief Archon, called Satan, because of His own sinning. This darkness is made manifest by GOD having to create a medium via the Holy Spirit to allow this sinning to exist in the presence of the Father, but this does not mean the Father is the father of sin, no: the fallen angel is the father of sin: now sinning continues with more sinning, and makes other angels also sin, and together they become an army of sinning, such causes a war in heaven.
This does not make the creature cherubs who do sinning more powerful than the Father, but it does place the Father's love in a pickle. What does the Father do? He could in a flash destroy ra immediately when it began, poof the bright star is gone? The other unfallen angels would ask, O Father why has this bright star no more around you? What could Father say? I don't like Him, He sinned? What is sin, the angels say? Why don't you like Him? What does this mean?
How do you explain to free will relationships about broken relationships, about hate, about death if they have never seen ra before? You can't. Would the Father know ra? Yes, but not by doing ra, but by doing tov, is ra made known. If you are fully a GOD of tov, you automatically predict what ra fully is, without doing ra personally, because ra is the opposite of tov. So a Father in heaven knows fully ra, but have never done a single ra ever... Now you can challenge this, but saying doesn't GOD kill things?
Since all things are supported by GOD, can GOD also unsupport things? SO if in a relationship, matter supported by GOD decides to do dysfunction against function, how long does the Function allow the Dysfunction to continue? That is a question of love. How long should love allow hate, and killing of others? It took 400 years of love by GOD to end the probation of living in some people groups, like Amalekites.
This is why every act, thought and deed is written down in books... GOD's loving responses are on trial...in a heavenly court....by whom?
The term attorney or opponent, is by definition against the court ... if the court in heaven is a true court on earth, than there are two opposing side, and a judge who is not biased.
Who is in this heavenly court?
Jury:-- a jury has to be witnesses, and innocent, law abiding, without bias, without having seen the crimes committed before hand.
Prosecutor - is the one opposing the court.
So who's on trial? Father is. What is the crime? That the Father's love is not just, because Beings who sin are unfairly kicked out of heaven.
Who speaks for the Father? Jesus, the Father's Son does. Who speaks for the sinning cherubs kicked out? Satan does.
Both of these Beings are "saraph, the burning Beings" from heaven, both placed as symbols upon the pole of sinning, and the right kind of look, saved those bitten by fiery serpents from dying. Look to Me and be saved, Jesus-YHWH says. Satan also says "look to me and be saved". Which burning Being is correct? Who truly saves?
This court session meets time and time again for consideration over every witness called for jury duty. These Beings have never seen sinning before in heaven, and thus are not biased. However since their creation, the Devil sought to trick them into sinning on earth, so Satan became King of earth.
The heavenly court ruled Jesus would challenge Satan as prince of this world, and thus died in human form, to wrought back this world as rightful prince of earth. Jesus is now king of humans, not Satan. Now Satan has lost a battle in this war, the court is nearing closing remarks of the great contest.
Once the heavenly verdict spoke, have you considered by servant Job, who avoids all known ra?
The opponent spoke, You protect Him and Hedge Him, I cannot do as I like to Him. Let me do as I like and see if Job will disown you to your face. So the request was given... the Father of Tov, withdraws His tov, and the father of ra, attacks Job... who is the father of ra?
Jesus says, Satan is the father of ra, a murderer from the beginning.
Why does it seem the opponent in the court seems to be obeying as his told? Because when you do yester tov in a world of yester ra, the Father protects and hedges you. Your choices of power ruling over you protect you. The Father is in control here over Job. The Father is ruler over Job, even though Satan claims to be ruler of earth. So Satan has to ask for Father Tov to withdraw His tov, so father Ra can move in once more. The Father agrees to the test, to help those in the future see where ra comes from and who the real father of ra is.
Dave: "Evil Spirit of YHWH – curious – how can you continue to uphold the tov only God idea Unless evil spirits are tov working for the Lord – is this what you are saying – evil spirit and God on the same side?
Your saying GOD has both tov and ra in our world intentionally by design, that both tov spirit and ra spirit, are on the same side.
I disagree with this. GOD created a world with tov and ra in it because angels once long ago sinned, and demanded this tov and ra universe. The tov Spirit comes from a tov Father, the ra spirit comes from a ra fallen angel, Satan. They are enemies. Opposites.
You have trouble understanding "Darkness" "night" and where these things come from?
Ps 105:28 He sent <shalach> darkness <choshek>, and made it dark <chashak>; and they rebelled <marah> not against his word <dabar>.
Here are two Hebrew words of similar spelling, but slightly different meanings. They both can't mean dark.
chashak means dark. Its something you get when light colours are made intense, concentrated... dense...its a natural colour made by the Father.
choshek cannot mean the same as chashak, notice the letter meanings:
chashak means dark "outside pressed palms".
choshek means dark-relationship, "outside secured, pressed palms". What makes the "choshek" secured, like a tent peg? Relationships do. The pressed palms of GOD are secured, fixed by relationships gone wrong.
Can you make a shadow without light? no
So ra is not made. Ra cannot be formed. In order to observe ra, you have to create it. The same applies to salvation. Salvation is not made or formed either. It's a created concept.
Here is a natural experiment you can do to explain where darkness comes from...
Dave: "Two fathers in heaven – two creators A Father of tov and indirectly a Mother of ra (when the HS created the Chief Archon But Father of tov and Mother of ra are not really two creators Unless you want to argue that God and Christ are two creators Trinity -
Make this another thread if you want. What is trinity? a Roman edit term. Not Hebrew. The Shadday or Mother / Holy Spirit never created anything on its own. Jesus spoke, the Holy Spirit responded. With whose direct power? The Father's. How many Creators here? One. Yet all three divine members are involved. But one Creator created.
Shalom my friend.
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Post by Dave on Nov 30, 2019 14:52:52 GMT -5
GOD responded with allowing an evil spirit to – God is in control .... a ra spirit, is fathered by Satan – now your satan creates spirits – you really empower himEntropy It is a by-product – a natural consequence – inherent to negentropy As soon as you make a thing – it begins to decay As soon as you wind a thing up – it begins to wind down As soon as you heat something up – it begins to cool This is the Second Law of Thermodynamics – God’s law for our reality – for our 3D universe (which is only one verse of the multi verse – which is only 3/10th of the ALL) You keep asking why? Why won’t earth last forever – why don’t we live forever – even the earth will pass away – the sun will burn out – why why why – it is called the Second Law of Thermodynamics In the beginning was God and only God – God = was absolute E – the E of E=mc2 This is by definition - the First Dimensional singularity - the base of all other dimensions - a point that contains all points, but cannot be located Before Gen 1:1 E = omnipotent - and if you add conscouness = omniscient Then Gen 1:1 God created the heavens and earth – God bara Himself That initial absolute E – exploded into the emptiness This explosion / expansion = God expressing Himself as Spirit = HS = omnipresent Second Dimensional matrix – expansion forming the matrix / ether / medium What is the function / purpose of expansion – the Second Dimension - it yields distance - omnipresence What was a singularity (E) = creation (mc2) – and the singularity bara into a ubiquitous multiverse Distance = separation from that initial singularity – When the Chief Archon was formed – it awoke alone and distant from God – being alone it thought it was first (arrogant) – then a voice came through the distance to say – you are mistaken Like exploding a fire cracker in a camp fire – coals jump all around – some that flew far from the flam – cool off and ‘forget’ – The first – thought / idea / expression – that God is not absolute = choshek of Gen 1:2 God made everything because He said – Let US God bara and His Spirit = HS = the second dimensional matrix /ether /medium God bara and His 3D form Christ – created all Christ = God – but HS is God at a distance – God via medium – entropy enters at distance it starts very small with the Chief Archon expressing arrogance Ps 18:11 He made "a dark-relationship" his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies. 1-Like you buy a new car – and way on the back corner and underneath where no one can see – there is a speck of rust 2-An angels steps up to act as the rustoleum – does he prevent the rust from existing NO – He can only slow its spread 3- Over time – your shiny new car will be consumed by rust – unless there is some type of intervention What is the intervention by God? – Gen 1:3 Light Yes Rob – you are a carnal animal, with carnal desires – you are physical Flesh and Blood – (Mind-Body) formed from the dust – this is our composition as man – one reason we are different than the angels – who are not carnal animals Within you is Soul – which came from above to be a passenger in your (Mind-Body) as ((Min-Body)+Soul) We are animal + spirit – a duality – this is only one side of our Contest Definition of ‘Bright nature’ - The First Book of Adam and Eve - CHAP. VIII. - This text has always been a part of the Jewish Mid Rash – ancient Hebrew literature – non-Tanak These verses show up in Jewish Kabbalah a lot – these verses are used by Ron Wyatte and the Christian Creation Institute + ancient Jewish kabbalah + Jewish Commentary by the Rabbinic sages that find themselves in the Zohar 8:1 THEN Adam wept and said, "O God, when we dwelt in the garden, and our hearts were lifted up, we saw the angels that sang praises in heaven, but now we do not see as we were used to do; nay, when we entered the cave, all creation became hidden from us."The Christian Creation Institute has much literature saying – Adam and Eve could see into the Heavens, they could watch the angels go about their jobs – Adam and Eve could also see the ‘music’ that the angels sang (like being able to see that vibratory spectrum) Dogs can see things we cannot! Mat 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him unto an exceeding high mountain, and showeth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; How could the devil show Jesus everything on the other side of the globe and its future potential glory This is an ability to see that human’s lack – because of Adam- making Jesus more than human 2 Then God the Lord said unto Adam, "When thou wast under subjection to Me, thou hadst a bright nature within thee, and for that reason couldst thou see things afar off. But after thy transgression thy bright nature was withdrawn from thee; and it was not left to thee to see things afar off, but only near at hand; after the ability of the flesh; for it is brutish."Now man can only see 3D reality – only the ‘visible light spectrum’ a very small fraction of the whole of reality. and the scale continues throught out 10 dimensions - this image is only our 3D view of the whole - it is not the whole - or as a Gnostic says - it is not the ALL (everything everwhere) We all have the ability within us – we have just forgotten – we need to be awakened – IMO - This is gifted back to us in small increments beginning with our gnosis (our acceptance of Jesus Christ – the indwelling of the HS) – it seems like revelation to us – Insight – logical deduction = MIND which is a biological product of Body and reasoning Revelation – is divine – because it is divine gnosis – and sometimes defies all reason or logic Do angels have ‘bright natures’? – unknown this passage is only about Adam and Eve –man Eve gnosis – because her bright nature allows her to see heaven – she is in full awareness She knew she was in full view of all of heaven – yet she was deceived – why Answer – even though she gnosis – she was also ignorant of the consequence After she ate – what more did she gnosis – she learned what ra is and its consequence She learned all about the Contest – what gnosis did she gain – the gnosis of tov and ra Without this ‘bright nature’ you and I have to look really hard and pray really hard just for a hopeful glimpse - I don’t disagree with you – However – I want to frown on the phrase because GOD is in usThe American Indian will agree with you – because God is in everything – split open an rock and there God is. I don’t disagree with them because everything is a bara of that initial E – We corporeally experience this E two ways – 1- Big E became the electromagnetic spectrum which is the base matrix for atomic structure Big E expressed the Word – and it reverberated throughout the matrix = electromagnet spectrum God expressed via the medium = HS God expressed as light (what is light – a wave moving through a distance / medium / matrix / ether) God expressed as light (what is light – 3D measurable a particle when it interacts) God expressed as 3D (for 3D mankind) = Jesus Christ However – Dionetics / Scientology takes this phrase too far They do not have to accept Christ – because they are already Christ – God is inside us all Do they - unknown WHAT? – this the entire point of the Gnostic CosmologyThe Chief Archon is not satan – not even closeThe Chief Archon was that First Arrogant Being that said ‘I am the absolute’ – but then a voice came down into the darkness and said – ‘your wrong – you are not the Creator – you are mistaken’ The first arrogant acknowledgement of the ignorance that ‘God-is-absolute’ This Chief Archon spread into archons – first there are 7 who have 12 under them – and these 12 have 72 heavens filled with lesser archons – remember this 72 any of these beings are bane elohiym – because there is never a mention that angelic elohiym reproduce God does not give birth to Christ – God is Christ –just as—HS is God = Trinity Satan – was a volunteer angel in the service of God ‘to rule over the chaos in hades’- which came later Now in this 3D realm – History plays out Serpent – Gen 3:15 – Contest – bane elohiym Gen 6 Nephilium – all archon Post Flood – God satan asked God not to banish all of his archon – please leave 10% for satan to govern to complete satan’s task of testing man. (Jubilees 10) God sends the 90% to chains in heaven – the Gagori The remaining 10% are allowed to drown and because their spirits were born on earth – they remain on earth as disembodied spirits / Jinn / archon / evil spirits (Enoch) BUT – not all of the Nephilim drown – many sources – all questionable – 1 Thes 5:21 1- Og – hung on the outside of the ark and Ham fed him through a knot hole 2- an Archon (nameless) was hidden by Ham in the dark corner of the ark and fed him in secret 3-HEIGHT advantage – the flood covered the tallest mountain by only 20’ many Enochian pre-flood archons were up to 3 miles tall? (3000 ells – whatever measurement that corresponds to) After the flood – Nephilim are ½ breed demigods born of bane elohiym and man – (or KJV bane elohiym and Mother Earth Gia) – either way this is human DNA and either way some survived the Flood and show up again as Rephiem (a DNA – gene pool) After Abraham – The Rephiem are given 400 years so the inequities of the Amorite can come to completion. By the time Joshua gets there – there are 7 Tribes that must be completely eliminated – man, woman, child, pets, and livestock! Gen 6:12 And God saw the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth. (All flesh = Chimeras) Israel failed / disobeyed - Jdg 2:2 and ye shall make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall break down their altars. But ye have not hearkened unto my voice: why have ye done this? 3 Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you. There are Rephiem DNA in some humans today – (maybe Densosovians?) David Ike – a genetic component allows these archon to manipulates this realm through ancient Kings as interfaces (the bane elohiym are not here anymore – only their DNA remenant) Ancient Kings were the interface between these ‘other gods’ and mankind. Today David Ike says they are the 13 families that rule the planet – I do not disagree – (I have a Nephew that could have a little of this DNA if you ask me) ‘other gods’ – 31 in the Tanak – Baal, Molech, etc Gen 10:32 – mankind is spread to all four corners of the globe God only introduces Himself to 1% - <1% of the total global population What about the rest of the world? – the rest of the globe? This is an error of one dimensional Catholic doctrine (only Rome – self centered) I call the rest of the planet the 99% - that were not formally introduced – what of them Enoch said there were about 200 bane elohiym – but only about twenty of them are major players Enoch doesn’t say that has sacrifices – other than teaching man war Koran says – the Jinn (archon) agitate conflicts – that cause war and to war cause to esculate The Nag Hammadi Library - The Gospel of PhilipArchon - These are powers which [...] man, not wishing him to be saved, in order that they may [...]. For if man is saved, there will not be any sacrifices [...] and animals will not be offered to the powers. Indeed, the animals were the ones to whom they sacrificed. They were indeed offering them up alive, but when they offered them up, they died. As for man, they offered him up to God dead, and he lived.Sumar – 200 space gods called Annanaki, 20 major players – genetic engineering Egypt – 200 space gods called RA, Horis, Set – 20 major players – many Chimerias Assyerian Storm Gods 200/20 many Chmerias Greek / Roman / Nores / South American / South East Asian – all 200/20 All squabbling family units – ra doesn’t even get along with ra – that is the nature of ra all desire sacrifice – one way or another Were these ‘other gods’ real – YES! In every sense of the word Gnostic clarification – IMO – all these guys are the same guys in different form in different cultures – all archon pseudo gods desiring worship and sacrifice Canaan and the 1% - is surrounded by these ‘other gods’ and Rephiem remnants (Nub 11 – Goliath – Og – etc) – First Baal then Moloch (31 all together) Both requiring babies as sacrifices. These 31 ‘other gods’ surround Israel and the entire saga of the OT is the CONTEST between – walk with God and be victorious – or walk away from God and ‘other gods’ and their agents will kick your ass In 32AD (approx.) and 70 AD who won that Contest? – sure looks like raYet, with the Temple coming down and the Jews disbanded as a people – forces spiritual Messianic Judaism – First Christians Gospel = (Torah+Pentecost) = Baptism / Born again – Touched – Gifted – Called - direct gnosis NOT MAN’s CHURCH – HIS CHURCH - resluting in TOVAfter Christ – First Christian gathered ‘documents’ – Rome made their own version edited to their doctrine – At the 4th Council the Coptic Church walked away from councils and man-made arguments This left the perfect vacuum for Rome and the power of the Roman Empire – then the Holy Roman Empire – then Roman Catholic thought police Question – what is Heresy - Answer – anything Rome says it is – even if it is written by the same authors of the agl For it is clear because I see the Laws of our reality – God’s laws – put there for us to rediscover HIM – Rom 1:20 - The Second Law of Thermodynamics Sure – cool – time is relative – maybe years The Eve chose chata (sin) Even though she gnosis (knew) she did not understand – After – she gnosis (understands) the difference between tov and ra I disagree – my definition of ‘Free Will’ is much narrower – as - wait for it – the ability to Seek God or not – it has nothing to do with being social – or intelligent – or belief system The choice between Coke and Pepsi does not matter Only the choice that matters is between mitzvah or chata – move toward GOD – or not - Your satan is an elevated angel being – are you forgetting that satan is also a function Ia 45:7? You can disagree with God and His word in Hebrew in the Tanak if you want to Isa 45:7 I form the light (אוֹר), and create darkness (חֹשֶׁךְ - chôshek); I make peace (שָׁלֹם - shâlôm) , and create evil (רַע – ra)‛. I am Jehovah, (יְהֹוָה -yehôvâh – not any elhiym – not any angel) that doeth all these things. W ho makes ra? Answer = Jehovah/ יְהֹוָה does – is this your satan? Except חֹשֶׁךְ / chôshek (Gen 1:2) came before light /אוֹר Gen 1:3
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Post by Dave on Nov 30, 2019 16:13:04 GMT -5
Explaining the TRINITYTrapped by scripture alone - so much has to be taken on faith to explain away the trinity However - if you leave all scripture out of the conversation - my example goes like this Mathematically speaking, the most current science theory (String Theory Physics) says we are living in a multi-verse of 10 dimensions of space and one of time. We are a 3 dimensional creature living in a 3 dimensional reality By the strictest math or science definition those 3 dimensions are: The First Dimension - a singularity, a single point that cannot be located or identified, a single point that contains all data, all energy The E of the E=mc 2Making that singularity both OMNIPOTENT and OMNISCIENCE God to Moses - no man can see the face of God The Second Dimension - is a plane - it is OMNIPRESENT - the Holy Spirit every version of the Big Bang theory - includes EXPANSION and the 2nd step in creation The Third Dimension = US and where we are - Christ ************** Interesting correlations In the Book of Enoch - Enoch saw 10 heavens and to be face to face with God he saw heavens 8, 9, and 10 simultaniously In the Letter of Paul (almost the 3rd letter to Corinthians) - Paul saw 10 heavens There are 10 Hebrew words for heaven There are 10 Hebrew words for the Creator Islam has 7 heavens - add these 3 dimensions to them and you get 10 ************* Only the Trinity of Christianity satisfies the science There is only one primal theology - not the science way or the scripture way - but both must testify to the Creator - Psalms 19:1 You will see several attempts to draw the image in a visual form by me on this forum E = the E of mc 2 3D E = Christ (m) Holt Spirit = Spirit c 2 (distance – matrix / ether / medium) E = a duality of expression m and c 2Gen 1:1 God bara into hevens and earth – God = a duality Gen 1:27 And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. God = a duality of expression male and female The Father is at the top – the only way we can experience God is through Christ or the HS Exo – Moses saw the ‘Glory of God’ - Spirit Acts – Stephan sees the ‘glory of God’ – Spirit If Melchizedek = God then it was Christ because Christ is the 3D of God Cymatics- the study of wave cancellations and amplitude modulation. - is the study of visible sound co vibration (Wikipedia) Basically - it is as simple as this The Nag Hammadi Library - The Gospel of the EgyptiansThe holy book of the Egyptians about the great invisible Spirit, the Father whose name cannot be uttered, he who came forth from the heights of the perfection, the light of the light of the aeons of light, the light of the silence of the providence <and> the Father of the silence, the light of the word and the truth, the light of the incorruptions, the infinite light, the radiance from the aeons of light of the unrevealable, unmarked, ageless, unproclaimable Father, the aeon of the aeons, Autogenes, self-begotten, self-producing, alien, the really true aeon.
Three powers came forth from him; they are the Father, the Mother, (and) the Son, from the living silence, what came forth from the incorruptible Father. These came forth from the silence of the unknown Father.
And from that place, Domedon Doxomedon came forth, the aeon of the aeons and the light of each one of their powers. And thus the Son came forth fourth; the Mother fifth; the Father sixth. He was [...] but unheralded; it is he who is unmarked among all the powers, the glories, and the incorruptions.
From that place, the three powers came forth, the three ogdoads that the Father brings forth in silence with his providence, from his bosom, i.e., the Father, the Mother, (and) the Son.
The <first> ogdoad, because of which the thrice-male child came forth, which is the thought, and the word, and the incorruption, and the eternal life, the will, the mind, and the foreknowledge, the androgynous Father.
The second ogdoad-power, the Mother, the virginal Barbelon, epititioch[...]ai, memeneaimen[...], who presides over the heaven, karb[...], the uninterpretable power, the ineffable Mother. She originated from herself [...]; she came forth; she agreed with the Father of the silent silence.
The third ogdoad-power, the Son of the silent silence, and the crown of the silent silence, and the glory of the Father, and the virtue of the Mother, he brings forth from the bosom the seven powers of the great light of the seven voices. And the word is their completion.
These are the three powers, the three ogdoads that the Father, through his providence, brought forth from his bosom. He brought them forth at that place.Nag Hammadi Library - The Apocryphon of JohnThe teaching of the savior, and the revelation of the mysteries and the things hidden in silence, even these things which he taught John, his disciple.
And it happened one day, when John, the brother of James - who are the sons of Zebedee - had come up to the temple, that a Pharisee named Arimanius approached him and said to him, "Where is your master whom you followed?" And he said to him, "He has gone to the place from which he came." The Pharisee said to him, "With deception did this Nazarene deceive you (pl.), and he filled your ears with lies, and closed your hearts (and) turned you from the traditions of your fathers."
When I, John, heard these things I turned away from the temple to a desert place. And I grieved greatly in my heart, saying, "How then was the savior appointed, and why was he sent into the world by his Father, and who is his Father who sent him, and of what sort is that aeon to which we shall go? For what did he mean when he said to us, 'This aeon to which you will go is of the type of the imperishable aeon, but he did not teach us concerning the latter, of what sort it is."
Straightway, while I was contemplating these things, behold, the heavens opened and the whole creation which is below heaven shone, and the world was shaken. I was afraid, and behold I saw in the light a youth who stood by me. While I looked at him, he became like an old man. And he changed his likeness (again), becoming like a servant. There was not a plurality before me, but there was a likeness with multiple forms in the light, and the likenesses appeared through each other, and the likeness had three forms.
He said to me, "John, John, why do you doubt, or why are you afraid? You are not unfamiliar with this image, are you? - that is, do not be timid! - I am the one who is with you (pl.) always. I am the Father, I am the Mother, I am the Son. TrinityThe Nag Hammadi Library - The (First) Apocalypse of JamesIt is the Lord who spoke with me: "See now the completion of my redemption. I have given you a sign of these things, James, my brother. For not without reason have I called you my brother, although you are not my brother materially. And I am not ignorant concerning you; so that when I give you a sign - know and hear."
"Nothing existed except Him-who-is. He is unnameable and ineffable. I myself am also unnameable, from Him-who-is, just as I have been given a number of names - two from Him-who-is. And I, I am before you. Since you have asked concerning femaleness, femaleness existed, but femaleness was not first. And it prepared for itself powers and gods. But it did not exist when I came forth, since I am an image of Him-who-is. But I have brought forth the image of him so that the sons of Him-who-is might know what things are theirs and what things are alien (to them). Behold, I shall reveal to you everything of this mysteryTrinity
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 13:32:47 GMT -5
Wow, you present some weird things now... just two questions... we have come along way, you and I, I see a basic problem in your presentation:
The Chief Archon is not satan – not even close The Chief Archon was that First Arrogant Being that said ‘I am the absolute’ – but then a voice came down into the darkness and said – ‘your wrong – you are not the Creator – you are mistaken’ The first arrogant acknowledgement of the ignorance that ‘God-is-absolute’
OK, where id this "chief archon" come from? We have seen the NT references to this term. I have not seen any OT references to this term. You can present Gnostic references again if you want to, but I just want to see the "origin of chief archon" written down very clearly...
When I see this, I will want to read and see some words in the Hebrew:
The other question is this: wow, a biggie
"since when does Hebrew state the origin of the members of the Godhead"?
The Nag Hammadi Library - The Gospel of the Egyptians The holy book of the Egyptians about the great invisible Spirit, the Father whose name cannot be uttered, he who came forth from the heights of the perfection, the light of the light of the aeons of light, the light of the silence of the providence <and> the Father of the silence, the light of the word and the truth, the light of the incorruptions, the infinite light, the radiance from the aeons of light of the unrevealable, unmarked, ageless, unproclaimable Father, the aeon of the aeons, Autogenes, self-begotten, self-producing, alien, the really true aeon.
Three powers came forth from him; they are the Father, the Mother, (and) the Son, from the living silence, what came forth from the incorruptible Father. These came forth from the silence of the unknown Father.
And from that place, Domedon Doxomedon came forth, the aeon of the aeons and the light of each one of their powers. And thus the Son came forth fourth; the Mother fifth; the Father sixth. He was [...] but unheralded; it is he who is unmarked among all the powers, the glories, and the incorruptions.
From that place, the three powers came forth, the three ogdoads that the Father brings forth in silence with his providence, from his bosom, i.e., the Father, the Mother, (and) the Son.
The <first> ogdoad, because of which the thrice-male child came forth, which is the thought, and the word, and the incorruption, and the eternal life, the will, the mind, and the foreknowledge, the androgynous Father.
The second ogdoad-power, the Mother, the virginal Barbelon, epititioch[...]ai, memeneaimen[...], who presides over the heaven, karb[...], the uninterpretable power, the ineffable Mother. She originated from herself [...]; she came forth; she agreed with the Father of the silent silence.
The third ogdoad-power, the Son of the silent silence, and the crown of the silent silence, and the glory of the Father, and the virtue of the Mother, he brings forth from the bosom the seven powers of the great light of the seven voices. And the word is their completion.
These are the three powers, the three ogdoads that the Father, through his providence, brought forth from his bosom. He brought them forth at that place.
Why must you know the origin of the Godhead?
Does this not violate the Hebrew?
Ps 131:1 neither do I exercise myself in great matters, or in things too high for me.
Moses asked GOD to show His glory, all Moses saw was his back parts... nothing in Hebrew about origin of Godhead?
Shalom
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 13:54:01 GMT -5
ancientegyptonline.co.uk/ogdoad/
Ogdoad of Hermopolis (Khmunu)
Hermopolis means “the city of Hermes” in Greek. The Greeks gave it that name because it was a major cult centre of the god Thoth who they associated with their god Hermes, but the Egyptians knew it as Khmunu (“the City of the Eight”).
The Ogdoad was a system of eight deities, four gods and their consorts (the number four was considered to represent completeness). Each pair represented the male and female aspects of the four creative powers or sources. Nun and Naunet represented the primeval waters; Heh and Hauhet represented eternity; Kuk and Kuaket represented darkness; and Amun and Amunet represented air (or that which is hidden). However, the gods difffer from one source to another. Primeaval darkness was sometimes represented by Gereh and Gerehet and Heh and Hehet are sometimes included as forces of chaos, possibly representing the currents of the primeaval waters. When Amun rose in prominence as a creator god in his own right, he and Amunet were replaced by Nia and Niat, gods of the void.
The gods were all depicted with frog’s heads, while the goddesses had the heads of serpents. Only Amun went on to be considered as more than a primeval force. While Nun was still referred to often, it was only as the representation of the waters of Chaos.
These eight elements interacted causing an explosion (the Big Bang?) and the burst of energy which was released caused the primeval mound (located at Hermopolis, but originally known as the “Isle of Flame”) to rise from the water. It was thought The gods and goddesses of the Ogdoad then ruled the earth during the Golden Age. When they died they took up residence in the “Duat” (or “Tuat” – the Underworld). The ensured that the Nile continued to flow, that the inundation would come every year and caused the sun to rise each day There are four central creation myths. The first held that the world was born from a cosmic egg created by the gods of the Ogdoad. It was invisible as the sun had not yet been born. When it opened, it revealed the “bird of light”, an aspect of the sun god Re (occasionally the egg was said to contain air, associated with Amun and Amaunet). Alternatively, the egg was laid by a celestial goose called the Gengen Wer (the who took this form as a creator god). When Re hatched from the egg, he created the world and everything in it. The second version says that the egg was laid by an ibis, (a bird sacred to Thoth). However, the cult of Thoth developed after the original myth of the Ogdoad, so it is probable that this story was an attempt to incorporate Thoth into the pre-existing Ogdoad (who were sometimes known as “the souls of Thoth” or the “Eastern Souls”, eight baboons who helped the sun to rise every morning).
The Hermopolitans claimed that their theory of creation was older than any other in Egypt and that it was the Ogdoad who gave birth to both the sun and Atum . It is also interesting to note the similarity between the Ogdoad and the description of the creation of the world found in the Pentateuch (the first five books of the Old Testament).
I see when Ancient Hebrew entered Egypt, this truth was corrupted by the Egyptians. Satan made sure to cover up his own origin. Hence the Gnostic writing you present here is writing of deception. Have you considered this comparing it to the Hebrew account?
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Post by Dave on Dec 2, 2019 14:03:51 GMT -5
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse: Aren’t you excited and moved when science validate scripture? I am! Already answered and documented many times – the oldest copy is circa 250AD in Coptic Greek – available at ccdl.libraries.claremont.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/nha SDA is from Utah – therefore Joseph Smith and Brihgham Young are your prophets and your satan is the twin brother of Christ. It must be – they are both from Utah!Ogdoad – means god-head – nothing more – nothing less Question – is Ogdoad of Hermopolis in the Nag Hammadi? If not then - Can I ask you questions about the Book of Mormon – its Christian from Utah
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2019 4:04:03 GMT -5
OK what if I assume this finding:
Three powers came forth from him; they are the Father, the Mother, (and) the Son, from the living silence, what came forth from the incorruptible Father. These came forth from the silence of the unknown Father
What is this sentence saying about the Godhead? It is suggesting the Father, Son and Holy Spirit came from another Father Being??
"the androgynous Father."
Have you checked every occurrence of this word in Coptic is in fact " androgynous" in meaning? What does this fancy word mean anyway? I doubt the Coptic language would have such terms? Does the Hebrew? or the Greek?
"The second ogdoad-power, the Mother, the virginal Barbelon, epititioch[...]ai, memeneaimen"
Why such mystical language? Hebrew is not like that? What it is saying anyhow, with any certainty?
Already answered and documented many times – the oldest copy is circa 250AD in Coptic Greek
So you saying the oldest copy of any written word for "chief archon" is 250 AD. I thought this word existed in Solomon's Gnostic material? You haven't provided any source of this word "chief archon" existing in the KJV Bible in any form, though I would like it in Hebrew.
Archons are, in Gnosticism and religions closely related to it, demonic entities subordinate to the embodiment of evil in the corresponding belief-system. Among the Archontics, Ophites, Sethians and in the writings of Nag Hammadi library, the archons are rulers, each related to one of seven planets; they prevent souls from leaving the material realm. In Manichaeism, the archons are the rulers of a realm within the 'Kingdom of Darkness', who together make up the Prince of Darkness.
Wiki, I doubt you would agree to this assessment?
gnosticwarrior.com/yaldabaoth.html
For Yaldabaoth said, “I am God and there is no other God beside me.”
According to the ancient Gnostic texts, there is a creator God named Yadabaoth (Ilda-Baoth or Ialdabaoth ) who is described as the Child of Chaos, and was the son of Sophia (wisdom) in Gnostic Cosmogenesis. Yaldabaoth is called an angel in the apocryphal Gospel of Judas.
He is first mentioned in “The Cosmos, Chaos, and the Underworld” as one of the twelve angels to come “into being [to] rule over chaos and the [underworld]”. In the “Gospel of Nicodemus,” Yaldabaoth is called Satan, and Dante called the Devil simply a worm.
The Theosophists say that Yaldabaoth is identical with the Fetahil of the Codex Nazaraeus, the Demiurge of the Valentinian system (Lucifer, vi, 33), the Proarchos of the Barbelitae (Irenaeus, I, xxix, 4), the Great Archon of Basilides and the Elohim of Justinus. (1)
Yaldabaoth is the creator of the visible realm or what we can call the Matrix (society) and prince of the Creative Forces in humans which he is the Father of the modern man in the form of earthly Adam and Eve of the biblical Garden of Eden.
Trying to keep is simple, chief archon is another name for Satan, according to the Gospel of Nicodemus.
I can be confused, if your not clear?
A page of the Gospel of Judas from Codex Tchacos (ca. 300 C.E.). Giotto di Bondone, The Arrest of Christ (Kiss of Judas), 1304–1306. Scrovegni Chapel, Padua, Italy.
The Gospel of Judas by April D. DeConick
A fourth-century Coptic translation of the Gospel of Judas, which is a second-century gospel first mentioned by Irenaeus of Lyons, was recovered in 2006 and published initially under the auspices of the National Geographic Society as a gospel that exonerated Judas and saw him as a Gnostic hero and soul mate of Jesus. Subsequent studies, however, questioned this interpretation of the Gospel of Judas and resulted in the major revision of the original editors’ thesis and translation. The gospel’s author was affiliated with Sethian Gnostic teachings where the creator-god of the Old Testament (YHWH) was understood to be an archon, a demonic trickster god. He is the main adversary of a higher, transcendent God known only to Jesus and the Gnostic elect who traced themselves back to their hero, Seth, the third son of Adam and Eve.
In the Gospel of Judas, Judas turns out to be demonic in a way that exceeds the New Testament stories about him. First, Jesus calls Judas the “Thirteenth Demon” (in Greek, daimon; 44:21), which in Sethian Gnostic literature is a title given to the chief archon who created and rules the world: Ialdabaoth, a title for God in the Hebrew Bible. This archon is opposed to the transcendent God that the Gnostics worshiped. He tries to lead people astray and keep knowledge of the transcendent God from them. Gnostics believed this evil archon lived in the thirteenth realm, at the top of the universe above the five abysses of chaos and the seven planetary realms. Judas, then, is identified with the chief demon in the Sethian tradition as Ialdabaoth’s double on earth.
Where is "Ialdabaoth" in OT?
With sources like this, I am confused. Do you have any reliable writings clearly identifying the Chief Archon?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 3, 2019 9:31:05 GMT -5
YES – I am perfectly comfortable with this – 100%From the First Dimensional singularity (which is ALL / everything) is not male! Christ is male – HS is female The creator is both or neither = androgynous Gen 1:27 And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Or is your Creator only male? Like the Catholics? We call Him “Him” because it is a human / mortal man pronoun of RESPECT We just don’t feel comfortable referring to our Creator as “IT” And man dominated human culture is not comfortable calling the Creator – “Her” an·drog·y·nous - /anˈdräjənəs/ - adjective - English partly male and partly female in appearance; of indeterminate sex. Let’s see – not written in Hebrew –or- for a Hebrew audience – Hmmm? Solomon writes a lot about the archon – bad guys Look the text up yourself – if you really cannot locate any links for the Testament of Solomon – or the Key of Solomon – you could use the links I HAVE ALREADY provided – or I could post them again For Nag Hammadi - www.gnosis.org/welcome.html For Mid-Rash - www.sacred-texts.com/index.htmA fantastic source - library.yu.edu/AncientJewishHistory/PrimarySourcesJewish Judaism and Christianity YES! – they are the anti-awakening forces – As Men (Rephiem) and interdimensional visitors (spirits) = bad guy = archons YES! – However, I have read this a bunch – I do not use all of my Nag Hammadi – As I flip through my copy – some books are untouched / overlooked – other Books are full of notes and red ink – it is not all from one group or movement I never got the one dimensional impression the Nag Hammadi authors that the archon want our souls to remain in the material realm – but to keep us side tracked with the physical life so we have not the time to Seek – to prevent us from remembering who we really are – which is - souls from heaven having a physical souljourn on our way back to God Inhabiting the seven visible planets – YES!Questions #1– when the bane elohiyn (archon) were ejected from Earth by the Flood – where did they go? #2 – why are all our planets named after – wait for it – ‘other gods’ #3- The remaining 10% of the “Nephilim” (Jubilees 10 / Enoch) are demi-gods – PHYSICIAL #4 – where are these physicial Nephilim today? – they are close enough to visit us anything they want – physical beings are not inter-dimensional – they are trapped within the same 3D we are. Physical beings require vehicle transportation – UFOs I have a great video clip of Russian UFO researcher saying – these aliens are looking for God, For some reason they have been disconnected from their God and by studying man on a large scale – they hope to find their God (Yuri Yankova (sp) – 2015) FYI – FD-WEDT says – before the Flood – Earth was a large gas giant proto-planet much like Jupiter After the Flood FD-WEDT says Planet Earth is a very different place Perhaps this is why the bane elohiym / archon can’t be here 24/7 They can visit – pop in – make trouble – inter-dimensional visitation – but they cannot be here as they were 24/7 before the Flood Places like Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune become Gnostically interesting – is the moon hollow with “Watchers” living there? Venus, Mars, - what is Neberu? I have no idea what Manichawism is – and don’t care – but otherwise - YES Of these three – I am only aware of the Sethians (Wiki) The Sethians were one of the main currents of Gnosticism during the 2nd and 3rd century CE, along with Valentinianism. Sethian are alive and well today – Jesus was 100% man until baptized by John, then the HS came into him. The Bane elohiym of Gen 6 = the sons of Seth (just other men) – Church History lesson(Wiki) The Arian controversy was a series of Christian theological disputes that arose between Arius and Athanasius of Alexandria, two Christian theologians from Alexandria, Egypt. The most important of these controversies concerned the substantial relationship between God the Father and God the Son. The deep divisions created by the disputes were an ironic consequence of Emperor Constantine's efforts to unite Christianity and establish a single, imperially approved version of the faith during his reign.[1][2] These disagreements divided the Church into two opposing theological factions for over 55 years, from the time before the First Council of Nicaea in 325 until after the First Council of Constantinople in 381. There was no formal resolution or formal schism, though the Trinitarian faction ultimately gained the upper hand in the imperial Church; Point – what is the leadership of the Christian Church – Egypt and Egypt – NOT ROMEYou know me – I am a Trinity guy – 100% Yaldabaoth – is just a name – it has a few others Child of Chaos – inherent to / by-product of / a consequence of creation - entropy the son of Sophia (wisdom) – I would say offspring (Goddess of Wisdom / Sophia = HS (female)) Son of implies gender – also direct delivery – birthing – womb? Parents? Sexuality Jesus is the Son of Man – He had a mortal mother Offspring – can be indirect – asexual (just a stupid example – don’t attack my vocabulary) You go camping and light a match (you created) to light a candle on your menorah – TOV One spark jumps away – smolders in the grass and weeds – until the entire forest is on fire The Fire is an offspring of the smolder. The smolder is an offspring of the spark. The spark is an offspring of your match. You are now the ‘Father of Forest Fire’ – it is all your offspring God made Christ – Christ = Son of God HS made the Chief Archon – the son of chaos – because She is the medium / matrix / ether upon which everything exist – it was an indirect creation – a by-product – a consequence – inherent – entropy The Laws of Thermodynamics are God’s Laws The only one of these that I am familiar with is ‘Dante’ – it is a secular novel where all of Catholic world gets a devil with horns, a red suit, a pointy tail, and a pitchfork living in a fiery pit Hello – this is a NOVEL written for entertainment – why is it considered Catholic / Christian doctrine? I looked all through my Nag Hammadi – I did not see any of these text listed Although – the Book of Mormon says your satan is Christ’s twin brother – is this why you empower your satan so much – you believe this – it is written in a Christian Gospel of Jesus Christ NOT FAIR – the only thing we know of Valentinus is what survives in criticism by Rome. Is the only real you your x-wife’s version? Demiurge – as used in the Nag Hammadi – helper angel during creation – craftsman / artisan satan is the twin brother of Christ – the Book of Mormon says so - simple 1- Gospel of Judas is not connected with the Nag Hammadi at all Its like your comparing your Ellen White against the authority of the Dead Sea Scrolls – what do that have in common – in fact – what do they have to with one another at all 2- Already discussed – IMO the Gospel of Judas is bunk – I told you I cannot read it without wanting to throw it across the room – yet you suggest I endorse it 3- Now you are a Mormon Catholic – am I correct? Why do you try so hard to discredit Jesus Christ as present by John, James, Peter, Philip, Thomas Instead you spend hours dissecting the Pits Sophia – Now you want to discuss the Gospel of Judas – What’s next for you – Gospel of satan? I saved this for last – this is the Sethian view This is the standard surviving Sethian view – In a way they take your position God is only TOV – and this world is flawed (RA our term not theirs) this world is sin – this world is not getting into heaven therefore it is not of TOV – it cannot be Nag Hammadi dose say the Chief Archon had 7 offspring that had 12 offspring – which in turn made 72 realms / kingdoms / domains – each with its one ruler (all within the darkness) Nag Hammadi never says this 3D world is one of them – IMO – spiritual localities - not material but spiritual The Cathars of France were Gnostic – and known to their community as ‘The Good Men’ When Rome attacked them – they didn’t resist – the Roman record says, “The Cathars gladly threw themselves into the flames to be burnt – instead of having to be tied to a stake. AND these silly Cathars sang Hymms as they did – almost if the gnosis this life is an illusion and to be put to death for believing in Christ is a blessing – stupid gnostics
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2019 13:20:46 GMT -5
Sorry Dave, just lost an hour of writing, here, stupid computers lose things... I will present one thing for now: Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God (elohiym),
Eph 3:14 ¶ For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Holy Spirit in the inner man;Elohiym = family = Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Earthly pictures of family are Provider, Responder and Son. or in personality Ahab (Ab who provides love) Bn Son who collects both father and mother love as a personality, but is also a provider of love mostly Ahabuh Female response to love. spiritualsprings.org/ss-845.htm Have a look at the two Hebrew words for love. We have completely different pictures of the God head, don't we? You like trinity, whatever that Catholic word means, I don't. The pictures of Father Mother and Son, does not have "an·drog·y·nous Fa.ther" does it? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 3, 2019 23:18:14 GMT -5
Elohiym = family = Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Is this family Father - Son and IT If Father - then who is mother in your family
What does Gen 1:27 mean? Is not the image of God male and female? Is Torah incorrect?
Gen 1:1 In the beginning GodH430 אֱלֹהִים - H430 - 'ĕlôhı̂ym - Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Trinity + angels + archon + whatever else lives in the unseen realms of the heavens One big family - Simple
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 2:12:02 GMT -5
No that is a secular term for "Family"
The biological term for family, is family is Father (eloah), Mother (Shadday)and Son. The Holy Spirit is a medium function of the Shadday.
Notice these heavenly parents do simile things humans do to born children... Note I say simile, not meaning GOD is gender male or gender female, Scripture does NOT say.
Lu 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Two heavenly Beings come over Mary, a simile function gender male and a simile function gender female, as earthlings doing born functions do. This is the only text that suggests the Godhead has simile functions of gender male and gender female.
This does NOT mean they were doing sex, there is no Hebrew word for womb anyway... its a noun form meaning compassion-centre, or as KJV says matrix...I suspect GOD functions as similes as we do, but NOT precisely as humans do. Ron Wyatt tested the blood of the Lord Jesus and found it to be X plus 23 chromosomes, making only 24 in total, not like humans with 46. The Father provided the X, and the egg from Mary provided the other 23. The Father and the Holy Spirit (Shadday) came together to add humanity unto their divine Son, in a way that is a mystery.
If you study the two Hebrew words for love, the Father is mostly Ahab, as we would expect from a maleness-love Father to be. Gender males can do femaleness-love (ahabuh) but this is not as common as their normal loving style of maleness-love.
Both humans genders can do both Ahab and Ahabuh, but males mostly do Ahab and females mostly do Ahabuh. Get the idea? Study these Hebrew words for yourself?
See my links early posted.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 4, 2019 7:11:52 GMT -5
bane elohiym = sons of your family - Christ = multiplt Christ That came to Earth and raped womed to produce the grand-sons of your family = Nephilim
Maybe your God = your satan - stronger than my Creator Therefore not my God
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 12:46:21 GMT -5
Nephilim is a Hebrew word Jeff Benner does not comment about.
He says the word means Nephilim: (masc.: נפילים / ne'phi'lim) MT: make~FALL(V)~ing(mp) RMT: Making fall. Strong's: #5303
What does Scripture say the word means?
Nu 13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight. (KJV)
Ge 6:4 ¶ There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown
Only two texts. Not much?
And the meaning of "ben elohiym"?
Job 1:6 ¶ Now there was a day when the "sons of God" came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Ge 6:2 That the "sons of God" saw the "daughters of men"....
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the "sons of God" shouted for joy?
Ro 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the "sons of God".
1Jo 3:1 ¶ Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the "sons of God":
Notice the contrast : "sons of God" saw the "daughters of men"....
The contrast is within humans, sons, daughters, god, men.
Why are human sons called "gods"?
Ps 82:6 ¶ I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes (sar).
His verse gives a major clue... humans were made a little lower than elohiym, and are princes... this term is significant to you...it means "archon".
In a sinless state, humans born on earth were princes of earth, and thus entitled to come to meeting to see GOD because they were princes.
In Job we are told other unfallen princes would have come to meeting from other unfallen worlds.
Notice the term "Archon" or "prince" is in the OT, but not the meanings you give it.
You claim these archons are bane elohiym... well this verse says humans are the archons... but since Adam sinned, he lost his prince status...
You make a big deal of Eve's sin...but women were not "sar" only men were "Sar", ie "sons of GOD, or princes of GOD" when Adam sinned, he lost His prince status and the one who caused him to sin, became ruler of earth instead.
So when it says there were giant humans in those days, there were. Adam was large, so was Eve. The little humans we have today result for DNA corruption since sin.
Dave: "Maybe your God = your satan - stronger than my Creator Therefore not my God
Please explain. God does not control relationships. Relationships be definition have to be always free will. Otherwise you have robotic natural instincts or slaves. These are examples of abusive relationships, where one does what it is programmed to do.
Why do you assume a creature is stronger than a Creator, just because it sins and no longer wish's a relationship with you?
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