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Post by Dave on Mar 3, 2020 11:57:09 GMT -5
I have just been re-reading ... my ... comments. ... I need that kick in the ass. LOL This is the value of print discussions – to re-read oneself is so educational – self-enlightening We all need a kick We are all babes – you do hold church mythology closer than scripture – you are reluctant to entertain a differing view point – and you sure love to fight – I agree with her Am I full of righteous pride – can’t help it – he without sin cast the first stone – we all fall short More friendly – I would say – less confrontational The mission of our soul is to remember first – then to help other souljourners to remember as well Think of this word choice – you are a vocabulary guy – remember verses learn or teach Evangelical Christians - the first question to the non-believer is – do you know Jesus as your Savior? NO? – then the evangelical feels it his duty to teach them something they do not already know First the Evangelical makes the assumption you do not know – a Gnostic teach we all really know deep down inside – we just need to remember Secondly – the Evangelical tries to teach a foreign subject (Christendom’s Mythology / doxology) in a foreign language filled with religious vocabulary that no-one understands Quoting King James’s scripture to a 21st century non-believer is – UNPRODUCTIVE A 21st century non-believer hates churches hypocritical and mythological bull shit Blah blah blah – the only thing most people can relate to is the contempt they have for the church and church history. What do people relate to? – Most people today will say they are spiritual – just not religious (churchy) Everyone believes – they are born knowing the truth of the one true God No one needs to be told what is right and wrong – deep down No one needs to be told the truth of Psa 19:1 or Rom 1:20 Almost everyone accepts some version of – other dimension – parallel dimensions – and other dimension beings and visitation However – because of the contempt we all have for church – it is almost impossible to preach the truth of 2Ki 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, Jehovah, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And Jehovah opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha. People already believe – they were born as believers – embrace their beliefs, validate their beliefs through scripture – help them to remember what has been forgotten Growth on all sides Have I responded with humility? Hope so – but we all become defensive defending those thing we believe / accept – this is why I separate my faith into two levels Level 1 -Those things I take on faith and define who I am – which are few Things like Psa 19:1 and Rom 1:20 and the truth of Gen 1:1; Jn 1:1-4; Level 2 - Those things I relegate to cosmology – which can be altered and flexible and subject to growth over time as my knowledge grows I began my walk as a Sun day Christian – I was taught satan in Ezk 28 / Isa 14 As I grew – the fallacy of the church was soon followed by the fallacy of Catholic doctrine The more Hebrew thought I studied – the more I became liberated from any doctrine Once satan of Ezk 28 and Isa 14 moved from Level 1 theology to Level 2 Cosmology my faith became real When you are on the right track – things simply fit into place Being a Christian is not a thing to do – a religion to follow – it is the gnosis of reality and listening to guidance from within – where only the true teacher / Comforter reminds us of – what we already know gnosis God is absolute – He is the undefinable E of the mc 2. He is the Thought behind the Word Gen 1:1 The Creator is the invisible creation (Spirit / heavens) and the visible Christ (corporeal reality - earth) Gen 1:27 God = male and female God = the trinity of creation and the duality of nature – tov and raw in the invisible realm and yester tov and yester ra in the physical realm We were once in full awareness in the presence of heaven and the Lord – we gnosis/ know the truth We are born into a physical body with a Mind of its own We are spirit / souls trapped within an animal have a physical souljourn within this physical realm Our mission is to remember – what we forgot – and to help other souljourners to remember also along our way In this physical realm – God introduced Himself to Abraham Why Abraham? Because he knew gnosis and kept the Torah before Moses Gen 26:5 Why Abraham? Because Israel would become God’s witness upon the earth The exodus – was to prove to the world that the One True God stands with Israel The Books of Judges and Joshua - were to prove to the whole world that the One True God stands with Israel The saga of the ahl prove that Israel is only human and fall into sin over and over The Exile and Divorce of Israel from Judah – is a metaphor of life – the Book of Job Some remain orthodox some are lost to the temptation of corporeal reality Proving the need of Salvation – If Israel cannot - who can? Salvation by whom? – The One true God of Israel – Christ – the male image of the Father – God incarnate, Jesus. How do we obtain salvation – by realizing that we already have it – all we need to do is embrace it God loved us before the world was created – God calls us all (with exception) We knew (gnosis) God in heaven and in the womb – Once we remember – we realize that if we are souls having a physical souljourn – our personal Contest is born Yester tov within us (known to the soul) yearn to remember and leave this world behind in the desire to return to God Yester ra within us (a product of animal and instinct) desires corporeal things – covets corporeal things – lust for corporeal things especially through the sexual desire to reproduce Yester tov longs for death and the return to spirit (our true form) Yester ra is fueled by our animal instinct for self-preservation and reproduction (survival of the species) The duality of manChurch and most Christians resort to denial or lying to justify their own carnal sin in front of other man – have to maintain the pious image – have to at least act Christian – and in private prayers become apologies for our sinful natures Gnostics see it differently – I know I am an animal – God knows I am an animal Yet – I gnosis – I live in His Grace of forgiveness through Christ – what a joy And for my joy – I praise Thank you for this pain – what a reminder that were are mortal and soon with God Thank you for the disease that harms my family - what a reminder that were are mortal and soon with God Thank you that Islam hates Israel so much that it is willing to bring about an end-times scenario to Test the God of Israel – so that all the world will know that the One True God stands with Israel Why Abraham? Because Israel would become God’s witness upon the earth
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2020 13:34:45 GMT -5
Really nice comments here Dave. Thank you for the share. I appreciate having someone to talk to, that cares to write. Your words to me are always considered.
I have a problem, I would like you to help me with:-
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
What does this verse mean Dave to you?
I have a recent friend, and he wants me to pray in tongues, as the Spirit apparently gives followers this power of the Holy Spirit? He claims to be SDA, and I find it strange that he also does not see GOD as three members, but only two members. He sees GOD as Father, the Spirit is a projection of the Father. He says the Holy Spirit is not a co-eternal divine Being.
He has many miracles some public, and daily speaks in tongues, mostly privately in prayer. Rather than discuss theology with me, he wants me to "start speaking in tongues", is the "praying in the spirit". So when does theology NOT matter, but manifestations of the Spirit, the only guide that matters?
Should signs and powers override theology? ie knowledge and wisdom of Bible?
1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues
He claims to have all 9 manifestations of the Holy Spirit, including speaking in tongues.
The first powers, is knowledge and wisdom.
So how does one get powers, and knowledge and wisdom, yet disagree with matters of torah? I don't get this? Doesn't knowledge and wisdom come from torah?
I get the impression as long as you have powers, having different doctrines of torah does not matter? We have differences in our torah, yet both claim to love Jesus? So does having differences really matter, or not? That is the question?
It says the disciples of Jesus were of one accord. What does that mean?
Notice when Nicodemus came to Jesus at night, why did Jesus correct him?
Joh 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
Nicodemus would say my SDA friend is from GOD, because He has all 9 manifestations of the Spirit, he has wisdom, knowledge, he heals, does prophecy and speaks in tongues.
Is this all we need, miracles of power? manifestations of power?
What did Jesus say?
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Why did Jesus attack his theology? My wife calls this a "right fighter"?
Joh 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Obviously Nicodemus didn't know His Hebrew very well? Why is that?
Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
What does this answer suggest to you?
What was Jesus saying here?
Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Why does Jesus quote Hebrew verses to the man?
Notice the importance of Hebrew verses. Jesus quotes Hebrew verses to the man.
When the man sees this verse acted out, He will understand. Now he doesn't.
What's your opinion off the questions I have raised. Thanks.
Shalom my friend.
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Post by Dave on Mar 3, 2020 15:28:17 GMT -5
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.What does this verse mean Dave to you? 1st thes 5:21 – Test it all and keep the good How do we know it is good – it speak according to the truth of the ahl and agl If the teaching does not agree with the truth I is simply not truthful My Gnostic literature does not rewrite the ahl or agl – but rather supplements You and Catholics deny the HS independent nature – Her ability to act independently It depends on the level of theology you wish to discuss Does Jesus Christ – act independently? When Niccodemas said Joh 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered that as long as Nicodemus was thinking like a 3D mortal he will never understand – instead you have to consider these issues spiritually Does Scripture say Jesus the man did the Miracles – or did God do the Miracles through Jesus Christ Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Does scripture say Paul performed miracles – or did God do them through Paul Act 19:11 (TLV) God was doing extraordinary miracles by Paul’s hands, A couple of topic here Speaking in tongues – Years ago I sought out a Pentecostal group I answered the call to come up front and receive the spirit As I stood in line waiting my turn – weird things happen in front of me When it came to my turn – I stepped out of line and left the building Something so theologically important had to feel right to be real Then I got the lecture – if I don’t speak in tongues I am never getting in – this is the only – one way An exclusive group of special Christians My Christianity is open to all – meek / hot / and cold – exclusive groups is exclusive to the whole It is a private club – man-made club / denomination 1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. ? 1Co 12:7 (TLV) But to each person is given the manifestation of the Ruach for the benefit of all. 1Cor 12:7 (OJB) But to each is given the disclosure of the Ruach Hakodesh for benefit: Whose benefit – I say God’s benefit / in service of God’s plan / facilitating God’s will At Pentecost – people had gathered at the Temple from as many as 135 different countries and languages – yet – every man heard the Gospel in their own tongue To spread the Gospel – to do God’s Will – to facilitate God’s plan on earth When Billy begins to babble in the 2nd row and betty begins to translate in the 8th row od church – all I see is a show boat / entertainment / tangible demonic experience – how does it serve God? Today – I strongly believe in gifts of the Holy Spirit Are we all called to speak in tounges? Or do our gifts today serve God in a less demonstrative way Yes Nicodemus might – but he was corrected because he was wrong I would say – Jesus attacked / corrected his understanding Nicodemus was only thinking one dimensionally – in 3D corporeal terms Jesus was amazed – Nicodemus was student of the Torah and did not understand that it is a spiritual message – Not corporeal / physical 1st Thes 5:21 – if it doesn’t agree with the Torah – I discard it However, there are exceptions God hardened Pharaoh’s heart – and God called Judas for a different purpose than the rest So God’s instruction can seem to violate the Torah – but end up serving the Torah God allowed the Holocaust (RA) – but ½ of Israel became martyred for the Lord (TOV) and the other ½ rededicated themselves to the Torah and God (TOV) The ahr answer – Scripture is literal and figurative The Gnostic answer – scripture is literal (one dimensional) and spiritual (multidimensional in fact) Man makes Torah into a man-made religious word game that only the experts can understand and teach That would be Nicodemus’s world – Pharisees / Sadducees – corporeal religion (religious Jews) If this is your only impression of the Torah – your only level of understanding – you are limited in your understanding of the larger reality Catholics have the same Torah and they have a creator god named satan that dominates all their theology AND - you argue that the Catholic have it more correct that the ahl intended audience the Jews Nicodemus might have known the word of the Torah – but did not understand the Kabbalah of the Torah (the bigger meaning – the spiritual meaning – the larger reality) They all agreed in the same truth – The reality of the Creator and Christ and the challenge of the Contest before us as mortal man Are we all called the same – NO! There are many examples of men being used by God for a specific purpose – Jonah, Judas, Pharaoh, John the Baptist – Paul Are their examples of the archon using men in the same way – YES! Calvin, Rev Jimmy Jones, Joseph Smith, Caesar, Hitler, Allister Crowley Are we all called the same – NO! Richard would say that it takes a Jew, a Christian, and a Muslim to make the world go round As for your friend – personally – I am not called that way Can I say he is in error – I judge not – but as a man I remain skeptic For meMy God is not a public entertainer Mat 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your righteousness before men, to be seen of them: else ye have no reward with your Father who is in heaven. 2 When therefore thou doest alms, sound not a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have received their reward. 3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: :4 that thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father who seeth in secret shall recompense thee. Mat 6:5 And when ye pray, ye shall not be as the hypocrites: for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have received their reward. 6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thine inner chamber, and having shut thy door, pray to thy Father who is in secret, and thy Father who seeth in secret shall recompense thee. I am not a Christian braggart – or a pious better than you righteous ass – I am just a Christian, thankful for the Grace that allows me to know (gnosis) my Lord and Savior
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2020 13:59:54 GMT -5
We are one the same page Dave. I pray to GOD to help me speak in tongues, in English, in the presence of others, to control my Baal tongue, and speak the words GOD wants me to speak. I find this difficult to do, because I often do things using my own powers of self.
I need to support Jesus with prayer promises like "
Jas 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
"bridle my tongue Lord"
In the presence of others I stress out and forget the LORD Jesus, it's easy to do. So speaking in tongues, is important, especially my own language, which I don't know that well. I need to speak and write God's words.
During our word battles Dave, I didn't know anything about your theology, or the Jews way of thinking, this was all new to me, hence the many words.
I can see why you think Satan is a good angel doing a bad job, and I cannot understand why Scripture writes the way it does : "God sent Saul an evil spirit" or to Job, "do not take his life" You mention that GOD tests us using archons, which help us to follow Tov rather than RA.
I don't find it this way. Satan tests us because He hates us. God proves us because He loves us as a father disciplines the son, he loves.
Jas 1:13 ¶ Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
How would you discern this verses?
Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Here James mentions the shadow experiment, God does not personally do ra, nor have a department doing his dirty work.
Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
There are different words for "tired" and "tempted".
"tempted" comes from Satan.
Mt 4:1 ¶ Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
Mr 1:13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
Mark adds the word "satan" to "devil" in case you think they are different terms.
endureth "hupomeno" temptation "peirasmos": for when he is tried "dokimos" "ginomai", James 1:12
I find this interesting: Gr 3985 and Gr 3986 are similar, like Hebrew, verb and noun forms?
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted "peirazo",
Mt 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil:
If temptation and ra come from GOD, why this verse in Jesus prayer than?
Lu 4:13 And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season. 14 ¶ And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee:
Again even temptation come from Satan, not from GOD?
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
Verses like this suggest GOD controls Satan, and limits His powers of tempting us with His temptation. I see Job as an example of this. You might say GOD does ra and tempts us, I don't see this. I see this is Satan's world, because he is the origin of sin, hence all temptations to ra come from Satan.
You often say Satan is a creator god? Why is that? Name something Satan has created?
In the shadow experiment, ra comes from relationship to GOD, so making a ra shadow is actually made observable by light coming from GOD. All Satan does is influence you to walk away from GOD, this does not make Satan a creator god. When Satan changes our DNA genes and spoils the code, God must limit this process, this is also like evolution, a spoiling process, but this is not creation or a creative process either? So where is one example Satan creates anything? He is a creature, an angel. Can't create anything.
Dave: I would say – Jesus attacked / corrected his understanding
Well said. Jesus is a torah fighter, Scripture words are important, we understand term correctly.
Dave: "1st Thes 5:21 – if it doesn’t agree with the Torah – I discard it However, there are exceptions...
Well said. I do the same. Everything must line up with torah, the words in Hebrew are important.
Dave: "I would say – Jesus attacked / corrected his understanding
Well said. This Hebrew reader didn't follow the Hebrew correctly, and need a different approach.
Dave: "1st thes 5:21 – Test it all and keep the good How do we know it is good – it speak according to the truth of the ahl and agl If the teaching does not agree with the truth I is simply not truthful My Gnostic literature does not rewrite the ahl or agl – but rather supplements
Well said. BUT: you gave me a different view, and I gave you a different view, mostly OT about Satan and sin and angel, these words suggest to me, ra comes from relationships that sin.
The NT books of James, say the same thing. The latter torah helps us with the former torah.
If I asked you a different question along the same topic:
Where did sinning come from?
Your answer might be, from the byproduct of the Holy Spirit allowing a dysfunctional entity come into Being, the chief archon who fathers other archons and causes more ra in the universe, maybe a war in heaven even?
But this Gnostic answer does not agree with the Hebrew NT or OT. This make GOD and author of sin and sinning. I don't like this idea. Yet is seems to be Jewish?
For me, clearly the Hebrew says cherub chata in Ezekiel, later war in heaven Rev 12, so sinning came from relationship that went wrong.
This tells me there are two kinds of relationships, tov relationships to GOD and ra relationships to GOD, not the idea we are born with both from birth. Not the idea that GOD creates both relationships or does both relationships.
Divine loving can only do tov relationships.
But than you say why does GOD allow bad things to happen to good people? like Job, and other examples. These are hard questions. Maybe when this angel now opposing GOD and his tov relationships, places GOD in a bind, how does love deal with sinning and sinners in a kind loving way? Maybe this is why judgement is important, than all your answers will be satisfied.
But you say "satan" as a verb or noun, only opposes man, not God, that for GOD, this term means a "good term instead of a bad term" isn't this change of meaning a violation of word meanings? Like some who say "family" only applies to man, not God. Made in the image of GOD, gender male and gender female only applies to man, not GOD. Cherub chata is a poetry metaphor, doesn't apply to a fallen angel, only to King Tyre. Aren't we changing the words to suit ourselves?
For example Jews don't see "elohiym" as a term for "family kind". They see the word differently, making special cases for secular use and special case for divine use. Should we do this to words? Change their meanings?
You say I play word games. Well how does a language full or words work? Aren't the words supposed to have stable basic meanings regardless of context?
Scripture says GOD is light. How far do we take this? Light is a family of spectra, from UV to gamma, billions of powers in the electro- magnetic spectrum, a family. Yet we cannot allow Elohim to mean family.
I get the idea of poetry similes, but change meanings, that is a different word play.
"satan" means to "oppose" how can it also mean a "friend" ? When God was "Satan" to Baalim, Baalim did as he was told, did that mean Baalim became a saved prophet? no. He was evil doing as he was told.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Mar 4, 2020 18:18:41 GMT -5
I pray to GOD to help me speak in tongues, in English, in the presence of others, to control my Baal tongue, and speak the words GOD wants me to speak. I find this difficult to do, because I often do things using my own powers of self. I don't have time to answer all of your post right now - but want to begin by saying I just think it is wrong to ask - Yes - know we are told to ask - ask and ye shall receive but I think it depends greatly on what we ask for I have been in churches when they gather a collective corprate prayer Pray for Betty hip surgery - pray for safe travel - pray that Jim and Mary find a job to keep their $400,000 dollar house and - PS they need gas money for the BMW Richard prays - only God's will be done Use me if you want - don't use me - cause me to suufer - cause me to expand - what ever God's Will is - that is what I want - Do I know God's Will for me? - NO! - so if I ask for other things I am never getting it Lord please make me the King of the world - is not getting answered Lord use me to witness to another - that might get answered - dependent upon motive Depends on who gets the glory Do I want to prove it to myself - or stand more pious than my neighbor = selfish / self-centered Do it for another without ME ever being discovered or even norticed - selfless Do it for another so it brings them to the Lord without ME ever being discovered - godly Have you ever know anyone praying for a specific that they never recieved? No matter how much you pray - grandma still dies! Richard would say - unanswered prayers were just wrong prayers Especially - let me test you Lord - or Prove yourself Lord - just show me a sign Ponder this - lets say God calls someone to be a singer This person wants to follow the Lord but does not want to sing They can try to be this or that or another thing - all in the name of the Lord But did they ever answer the call?
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Post by Dave on Mar 5, 2020 2:27:35 GMT -5
What do you think this verse means? To me it means to curb your tongue / control your tongue – it has nothing to do with speaking in tongues From Gnostic literature – I said – the original sin was the arrogance of the Chief Archon assuming that God-is-not-absolute Rakovsky says – the original sin = lust – as in sexual desire Lust or arrogance – are both yester ra impulses The desire to be the ALPHA MALE in the room = lust The desire to be the richest man in the world = lust God is beyond temptation – God tempts no one directly But once man gives in to temptation – his lust for that sin / choice bringeth forth the act and the act bringeth forth death God tempts no one directly – he has a staff for that – you do not like that statement God saves no one directly either – he has a staff for that – Christ One is the left hand – one is the right hand God is absolute – if God doesn’t do ra and has no provision for it to be done then ra cannot exist Satan is a verb and can be any being visible or invisible performing that function The devil is an individual being – synonymous with the Beast – who is the Chief Archon If you demand that satan is an individual being – then satan’s name = Peter Question – who are we asking not to lead us? Does this verse imply that satan is leading us – or is God leading us? God gave Job every reason to hate God Did God do it directly – no He sent His staff - satan YES! – God is in absolute control – there is no plan but God’s 1Co 10:13 does not mean that once saved – we are beyond sinning It means that once saved – we cannot sin our way into unsaved – we have an escape – the grace of God First you tell me that satan is the creator of sin and ra Then you ask me to name something satan created I really do not understand your logic God took you from the 'well of souls' (Jewish) and placed you into an animal's body God added you to the contest field God made you a contestant in the Great Contest If you want to say this is satan domain - OK God placed you in satan's domain - the contest field - physicial reality There is only one author - There is only one Creator There is only one authror – Only one Creator Only Catholics say – satan created evil – you say satan created evil I say satan created NOTHING OT or NT satan is not a creator god that rises up against God – impossible The Catholic view is NOT consistent with scripture OK – Ezk 28 – explain to me why this cannot be about the Chief Archon? When is the war in heaven – long ago as we agreed once before – or in the future? Both events took place in the GAP between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2 The Jews had an answer for this before Moses The Gnostics had an answer for this when Christ was crucified Only Feel Good Catholics still don’t know how to answer it – because it does not fit with a God that is only TOV LOVE and mercy The Jews say – satan = the accuser When we are judged – satan is the prosecutor – accuses us of our sin – exposes our sin The prosecutor is an employee of the State / Kingdom – to send the accused to punishment Satan opposes man – satan temps man – satan hinders man Who is changing its meaning? Is it a bad term or good – meaningless question I really do not understand your logic What part of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit does not represent a male / female / male family? What part of Father, Mother, Son + angels + archon + man does not = a family Tell me of a being in the universe that is not a child of God Or are we building an entire doctrine over two words – Peter = satan – the agl says so - Jesus Christ says so – a better source than Ezk or Isa Usually NO!The best evidence is any dictionary – few words have only one meaning – most words are context dependent Context-Dependent Interpretation Of Words: Evidence For Interactive Neural Processeswww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2577612/#:~:text=The%20meaning%20of%20a%20word,context%20in%20which%20it%20occurs.&text=The%20pattern%20of%20results%20suggests,between%20frontal%20and%20posterior%20areas. "The meaning of a word usually depends on the context in which it occurs."Isn’t this the exchange between Nicodemus and Jesus Born again - Nicodemus knew all the words – but did not grasp the Kabbalah Light = the electromagnetic spectrum – which is ubicqudous – it is the matrix / ether / sustainer / medium = God’s Spirit = the HS – God is the ALL Elohiym = all invisible heavenly beings - Father, Son, HS + angels + archon Visible children of God’s family = man and we are a little lower than the Elohiym
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2020 13:19:43 GMT -5
Greetings Dave, thanks for writing to me.
I wish to explore just one topic with you right now, a foundation topic that underpins all other investigations.
Dave: "The meaning of a word usually depends on the context in which it occurs."
If this were true, GOD is a creator of language in Eden with polysemy from the beginning. Hence GOD cannot make anything functional, ie without faults in it. You agree with this idea? After all GOD made both ra and tov together at the same time? I thought you speak of GOD as absolute, this implies to me God is totally perfect in all things, without any faults.
Yet allowing the Holy Spirit to make the Chief Archon as a mistake on her part, is a fault, even a sin. Doing both tov and ra, implies there are no good relationships with GOD, He does bad relationships too. Isn't this , a pagan Greek idea of their gods? If both good and bad relationships exist with GOD, where does sin come from? Sin is defined as a bad relationship? And if you do a bad relationship, you haven't created anything new.... all you have done is do something using less of God's power. So why do you say doing sin is a creative act? It's not?
Again you don't understand the shadow experiment? Have you done this simple task? Move a pen towards and away from a light on the ceiling. Watch the ra shadow get bigger or smaller? Are you creating anything by your moving towards or away from the light? No. The light does the affect, you do the position change of relationship. What's so hard to figure out here? So where does the ra shadow come from? From you, using God's powers of light. Switch off the light, can you create a ra shadow by yourself? No. Again the experiment shows ra shadows come only from light, but the light never enters the ra shadow, so GOD doesn't personally do ra, He only exposes ra to you.
You have to have relationships with GOD. A Creator creates creatures. Bingo. relationship. That implies two relationships. One is tov, the other ra. Practice the shadow experiment and ask yourself, am I creating ra shadows by myself? No, that silly to even say that. Light exposes your relationship change, but does so by not entering the shadow. You make the affect, but you never create anything. Switch off the light, can you create shadows? No.
Now about the topic that words change meanings in their sentences.
Jeff Benner and myself and Martin Luther would disagree with you.
You would have Jeff Benner's Genesis pdf mechanical translation? Every word in Hebrew has exactly the same meaning in English, and the English word never changes regardless of the sentence the word is it. This is how GOD would have given the words and thus the language to Adam in Eden.
He uses "elohiym-powers" for elohiym. I prefer using the words "Family Power of GOD" for heavenly divine cases and "family power of god" for pagan cases. Notice the meaning doesn't change, only the reference to which it points.
Jeff likes "fatten" for "bara". I prefer "engineer" for all sentences.
Jeff does get stuck on some Hebrew words: like :"ab" He makes this polysemous.
However I think this world should read "provider" for every sentence of "ab". (not father or fruit)
Hebrew can in many cases mean the opposite meaning in a sentence, so a sentence context is useful to know.
"Bara GOD and die". For example this means, curse God and die, not Bless God and die. The sentence tells you to use its opposite meaning.
Another Jeff has shown me, is what to do with verb and nouns spelt the same letters. These should have the same meaning.
Rachem for example should mean compassion. It comes in two forms, verb and noun. The meaning must still be about compassion.
Hence I use verb as compassion and noun as compassion-centre. I do not see womb here as others like to imply. It would create polysemous word. Why did GOD invent a word like this? Maybe the Holy Spirit has something similar to human, but not the same as human. Therefore there is no direct Hebrew word for womb, there is one for belly, but not womb. The womb is the ultimate compassion-centre, where life is granted and life develops. Hebrew is not about labels, it's more about functions and verbs. I got this from Jeff too.
So Jeff Benner has taught me a lot about Hebrew, words and language.
Martin Luther also translated the entire Bible into German, I have all of His words, and he doesn't make the German words change, He is like Jeff Benner.
For more see spiritualsprings.org/ss-1365.htm
Here we show Bible translations in different languages.
Now of course some polysemous words do exist, but they also are basic stable meaning in the sentence, they don't change meanings either, unless the sentence changes.
Polysemy exists because in a ra world, things decay, including languages and thus words.
From spiritualsprings.org/ss-130.htm
"Languages are made up of words. When languages change often words have slight changes to their original meaning, and sometimes even major changes to their meaning. As a result of Satanic agencies, such languages decay into multiple meanings called polysemy. Here is an English example :-
Once upon a time a boxer boxed a box. The box hurt. So the box died and was placed in a box. Now Box the boxer was a good dog as far as a boxer went. He could box the socks off a cat, old Box could. One day Box boxed the box tree until the cat ran down the box avoiding the boxing from the boxer because Box could box ! And that's why the box died ! Now if you find this story about Box, a little confusing maybe its time to box old Box !
Words often show their meaning by the context of their sentences. But you will notice the "box tree", or the "cardboard box", all have consistent meanings, even though these words are spelled the same. The word "box" does not have multiple meanings. The word has different origins caused by slang or technology. The word just happens to be spelled with the same letters.
As soon as you imply words change meaning depending upon the sentence they are in, you have created a confusing bunch of words, with many meanings.
A good example is "el". Strong lists 8 meanings. Jeff uses "mighty one" for "el" in Genesis 17:1, but I don't like this meaning.
From spiritualsprings.org/ss-1391.htm
I prefer "strong authority" and use the meaning directly from the Hebrew letters.
"mighty one" and "strong authority" express essentially the same idea anyway.
But the main thing here is we agree that polysemy is uncommon in Hebrew, especially the older Hebrew, Moses wrote in His day. In Eden, polysemy would not have existed at all. It was a totally TOV world back there. Sin did not exist than with mankind. Only tov relationships existed with man and GOD.
Shalom
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2020 14:32:43 GMT -5
Dave: "The prosecutor is an employee of the State
So if Satan is a prosecutor as an employee of the State of heaven, approved by GOD to test humans, why does this prosecutor die eternally in the lake of fire?
Dave:" you say satan created evil.
I don't.
God is the power of living. Satan murders and ends living. How is this creative? God is the power of building order, making homes etc. Satan is a destroyer and smashes houses etc. How is this creative? God has divine functional code in the DNA. Satan comes along with mutations and other changes and makes the code decay... How is that creative? It's not.
I can't think of anything creative Satan does. Sure wicked humans build building make creative things functional, but where does this power come from? from God.
Wicked people often do good things. Where does this goodness come from? From powers of God. Where does wickedness come from? From creatures wandering away from God, from abusing His powers to do bad things. Everything comes from God. But God is not the author of bad things, and bad doing. You are.
Take a gun, with power of exploding powder. Where does the evil come from? the gun or the person using the gun badly? If God ceased to sustain the atoms that make the gun functional, would the gun exist? no, but the evil would still exist with the bad person wanting to murder with the gun. The evil person would use a stick and shape it into a point and murder others with that.
Where does the intent of murder come from? Not from GOD, God creates the matter, the atoms, and empowers the relationship of power, powder, gun shape, etc. But the humans who use the matter differently to do evil, does not come from GOD.
SO where does yester ra come from? Such a thing is not totally DNA code or epigenetic code. What is the free will to decide to use powers inappropriately? Is this GOD's fault too? no.
Sin cannot be explained. Don't try explaining it.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Mar 5, 2020 21:47:37 GMT -5
You are surely testing me Just because you do not understand every nuance of the Hebrew language – God must have done something in error
Review any of these scholarly articles Grammatical Polysemy in the Hebrew Bible - Semantic Scholar Rabbinic polysemy and pluralism revisited - Yale Campus Press To See or Not To See. The Polysemy of the Word עין in the ... Give me a one word definition for H3588, or H5869 or H1004
Jeff has to be wrong ab definitely means ‘tent post’
Word games – I agree with Jeff – el = the Mighty One – the Top guy – the Creator singular You, on the other hand, give this authority to others
God created everything period – God is absolute – God is perfect in all things
Is the Contest a Mistake? Deu 13:3 thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or unto that dreamer of dreams: for Jehovah your God proveth you, to know whether ye love Jehovah your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Is this a mistake by God? Who are you to judge God and decide whether He did things appropriately?
So- Duet 13:3 means there is no good relationship with God – Or does it mean you just don’t understand all the ways of God?
For me – Light = the electromagnetic spectrum You make a simple experiment about visible light The two do not behave the same – if there was a blockage of the electromagnetic spectrum – nothing could exist without the ether / matrix / sustainer / medium
YES! – I have been saying this for months Your argument is that God exposes you to something God did not create – could not create because your God is only TOV I say that is impossible because God created everything and is everything
If bara means to engineer in Gen 1:1 then God creates something out of nothing Violate all known Laws of God - 2nd law of thermodynamics
Satan is not one single guy – satan is not an individual being – it is a function The Chief Archon = a satan Any archon = a satan Any angel used as the accuser = a satan God was satan to Balaam
When the Chief Archon is thrown into the lake of fire – or the devil – or any archon It is a satan
Are you suggesting with your own logic that God is thrown into the lake of fire? God was Balaam’s satan – your words satan is thrown into the lake of fire – your words
Yester ra within us is a product of biology - the instinctive desire to reproduce, conquor, and self preservation Yester ra is a product of your animal construct Yester ra is a product of being 3d corporeal
This is the duality of our natuires - spiritual tov vrs animal ra
Of course you cannot accept this - you must make it more complicated or convoluted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2020 16:03:51 GMT -5
Nm) ( KY) — I. Burning: II. Because: A reference to the previous or following context. [freq. 47] |kjv: burning| {str: 3587, 3588} Jeff Benner, Lexicon. Hard word to translate. Like our English word "go" has dozens of meanings.
Nf) ( AhYN) — Eye: [Hebrew and Aramaic] [freq. 892] |kjv: eye, sight, seem, colour, fountain, well, face, presence, before, conceit, think| {str: 5869, 5870} am) ( I note some sentences refer to the "eye on the ground" is a well.
Nm) ( BYT) — I. House: The structure or the family, as a household that resides within the house. II. Within: [Hebrew and Aramaic; The short form "" is used as a prefix meaning "in" or "with”] [freq. 2099] |kjv: house, household, home, within, family, temple, prison, place, dungeon| {str: 1004, 1005}
Jeff makes this polysemous also. Sure some Hebrew words are hard to define.
Dave: "Jeff has to be wrong ab definitely means ‘tent post’
What? The man went down to the tent posts of the valley to look for food?
Song 6:11 ¶ I went down into the garden of nuts to see the fruits of the valley, and to see whether the vine flourished, and the pomegranates budded.
Ge 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
What? The tent post shall leave his mother, and the two become married as one flesh?
Your funny Dave LOL
Dave: "Word games – I agree with Jeff – el = the Mighty One – the Top guy – the Creator singular...
Ps 80:10 The hills were covered .. (with).. the goodly "'el" cedars ('erez).. (KJV)
The hills were covered (with) the strong authority of cedars
Dave: The hills were covered (with) the "mighty ones" of cedars
Ps 36:6 Thy righteousness is like the great "'el" mountains (harar).. (KJV)
Thy righteousness is like the strong authority of mountains
Dave: "Thy righteousness is like the "mighty ones" of mountains
Isa 57:5 Enflaming yourselves with idols "'el".. (KJV)
Enflaming yourselves with (other) strong authorities (idols)
Dave: "Enflaming yourselves with (other) "mighty ones" (idols)
Eze 32:21 The strong "'el" among the mighty (gibbowr).. (KJV)
The strong authority among the mighty humans..
Dave: "The "mighty ones" among the mighty humans..
So your idea of "mighty ones" fits these unusual cases of "el" in sentences, the last sentence with gibbowr is repeating a similar idea ?
"mighty one" - "Strong authority" - not really different in meaning are they? What is the difference between the two? not much...
De 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
Where are the RA commandments we can do in the ten commandments Dave? They are not there, only TOV commandments? You cannot have Ra coming from GOD, as if GOD personally does RA, as you believe...
Dave: "YES! – I have been saying this for months Your argument is that God exposes you to something God did not create – could not create because your God is only TOV I say that is impossible because God created everything and is everything
I would say GOD exposes the RA you make yourself, to you, this does not imply GOD himself does RA personally. RA shadows are made by light, but the light does NOT personally enter the space, You make the space, not GOD and not light. You are personally doing RA, not GOD. You don't seem to get this?
Your saying GOD is the author of both good and bad relationships. You also have Gnostic writings saying GOD created Archons, and hence created evil.
A contest to prove whether you have tov relationships, not ra relationships. But if both relationships originally come from GOD, than its not a contest? If people in Russia vote democratically for parties of Government, all parties are descendants of communism, if you vote A. B or C. your getting different versions of communism. So why would you bother voting?
If you play cricket, as a contest, but the outcome is rigged for betting purposes, why would you play your heart out? You wouldn't. If GOD does both TOV and RA, but asks you to do TOV and disdain RA, why would you take God seriously? Either GOD is love or hate, God cannot be both. But you're saying GOD created both.
Dave:" Are you suggesting with your own logic that God is thrown into the lake of fire? God was Balaam’s satan – your words satan is thrown into the lake of fire – your words
You are avoiding the questions I gave you. If the Archons are created by GOD, they have a good purpose according to you, than why are they thrown into the lake of fire and come to an eternal end?
dave: "Yester ra within us is a product of biology - the instinctive desire to reproduce, conquor, and self preservation Yester ra is a product of your animal construct Yester ra is a product of being 3d corporeal
Absolutely not. Yester ra within us is a product of biology ONLY AFTER ADAM SINNED.
You have Adam born of yester ra from creation. You remove the concept of sin. There is not concept of sin in your theology. If angels don't have free will, than angels do not sin, therefore you cannot explain where sin came from. You don't have an origin of sin. Your Gnostic writings say GOD created sin, by allowing archons to come to test us.
Albert Einstein says "evil" doesn't exist. Yet you say GOD created everything including Ra. Why do you go against a mentor of mine?
Einstein says "evil" is simply a term humans use to describe relationships we have with GOD, where less and les of HIS powers are used in our lives.
IT AGREES will the simple shadow experiment. You walk away from GOD and the ra shadows appear, because you are blocking God's powers and use self rather than love.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Mar 7, 2020 22:26:20 GMT -5
What’s the difference?1- You have been mandating that ZERO polysemy exist in ancient Hebrew – it is the foundation of all your arguments - one word definitions for everything 2- Now you agree that polysemy exist – why couldn’t you just be academically honest in the beginning instead of pushing your one word only agenda 3- Serious study require – being credible 4- Words require SOME degree of polysemy – because of context 5- Entire sentences require context 6- Entire passages require context Without using any other verse from Luke explain this verse – Jesus says, Luk 19:27 But these mine enemies, that would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. Or Mathew – Jesus says Mat 10:34 Think not that I came to send peace on the earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to set a man at variance against his father, Ezk 26,27,and 28 83 verses about the King of Tyre – Catholics pick 4 verses in the middle of those to build your satan theology around OUT OF CONTEXT – WOW, you even have to correct my jokes In my defense – ab – tent post - www.studylight.org/lexicons/hebrew/2968.htmlAncient Hebrew Lexicon Definitions 1002) ba (אב AB) AC: Stand CO: Pole AB: ?: The pictograph a represents strength, the b represents the tent. Combined these mean "the strength of the house". This can be the tent poles which hold up the tent, the house, as well as the father who holds up the family, the household. (eng: pa - an exchange from a b and p and a reversal of the letters) A) ba (אב AB) AC: ? CO: Pole AB: ?: The support of the tent/house. If there is ZERO polysemy in ancient Hebrew then ab must always mean ‘rent post’ no exceptions - your rules – your absolutes Do not put words in my mouth The hills were covered with the – or in the – mighty cedars They righteousness is like the mighty mountains Enflaming yourselves with mighty idols You should learn to translate before you criticize translations Let me ask this politely – What the hell are you talking about! You can make up anything you want – you are DELIBERATELY misrepresenting me I am tired of quoting James 1:13 to you You OBVIOUSLY do not know what I believe You are DELIBERATELY misrepresenting me – as any serious academic student of the word would? [ GOD doesn't personally do ra, He only exposes ra to you. Again you have a second creator God created everything – sorry if you do not believe this – maybe this is your stumbling block There is only one author – there is only one Creator – YES! I will use the Catholic excuse – God didn’t make the ra – He allowed it God didn’t create evil – He allowed it Gnostic literature agrees with Jewish theology One is from the Right Hand and one is from the Left Hand When the First product of the HS opened his eyes – he mistaking thought he was alone and therefore the first – when he said as much – he was corrected This was the first arrogant self-centered thought – the first God-is-not-absolute thought Gnostic literature even tells us why God allowed it 1- So the Glory of God can be reviled 2- So the sum of all chaos can come about Why would God allow the sum of all chaos to come about? So the Glory of God can be reviled When the First product of the HS opened his eyes – he mistaking thought he was alone and therefore the first – when he said as much – he was corrected This was the first arrogant self-centered thought – the first God-is-not-absolute thought This is the BEAST – who is the devil – who is always a satan This was decided in the GAP – and the reason for Gen 1:3 Let me use your reasoning – your logic Eve could not have chata until after Adam sinned But Adam didn’t sin until after EVE chata I don’t think your logic works at all
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2020 14:03:09 GMT -5
Sorry Dave if my comments are hurtful and that I am upsetting you, Maybe I don't understand what you believe, but we have communed for months.
You state that I insistent on words having a single basic meaning. Yes that is true .
However is a real world, a world where sin and decay abound, such an ideal place does not exist.
Notice my words on my website, written way back in 2012. Long before I met you:-
spiritualsprings.org/ss-137.htm
Q1: What is polysemy ?
One of the sad things about mankind is spoiling our confidence in Jesus.
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering....
So if you can't baffle them brilliance, than baffle them with bull....
How true. Yeah sure languages experience decay and corruption, what I call evolutionary change. Multiple meanings come about because people forget the meanings of words, and so adopt new meanings, either through slang, through technology or through media change. So while there are some words with multiple meanings in any language, its NOT common. So why does such a concept exist so commonly in our Bibles ? Why ... ? Satan wants to shake our confidence in our faith towards Jesus, so He inspires translators to bicker and nit pick over this grammatical syntax and that lexical meaning. To what end ? Confusion.
Please keep to your child like faith in Jesus Name. Shalom "
end of webpage"
I note you quote Jeff Benner with this comments on "ab" meaning a "tent pole". Sure I read his comments, he also talks about "father" and "fruit". So rather that nit pick with each other, why can't we agree? Jeff Benner speaks of all three of these things.
However when you study the verses from which he suggests "Ab" to be "father or fruit", I find "provider" fits all the sentences of context.
Now since Jeff likes words to have a concrete meaning, the "strong home" could refer to "strong poles iin the tent"... makes sense I suppose for those nomadic times.
But I do not find Jeff saying "ab" meaning "strong tent pole" for all the sentences "Ab" is used in, only he suggests "father or fruit". Would polysemy have existed in the Garden of Eden times? no.
Because God is absolute as you say and does not make faults with anything, inlcuding His language He gave to Adam. Where did polysemy come from then? Sin.
When mankind began to make words, they also made slang, and different spellings, so words decayed over time. This also happened with Hebrew words. We have two root words, and adopted root words from invasions of other languages.
So I hope my comments help you, to understand where I am comming from.
Dave, your comments:
What’s the difference? 1- You have been mandating that ZERO polysemy exist in ancient Hebrew – it is the foundation of all your arguments - one word definitions for everything
(Rob: ideally yes)
2- Now you agree that polysemy exist – why couldn’t you just be academically honest in the beginning instead of pushing your one word only agenda
(Rob: I have always agreed some polysemy may exist iin languages due to there decay over time - we have sin spoiling things - but its not common)
3- Serious study require – being credible
(Rob: I am credible, but you also have to deal with adopted roots, etc, which are more complex than two letter words and three letter words, hence in a simple three letter words in a simple village, words would have a single basic meaning)
4- Words require SOME degree of polysemy – because of context
(Yes, for example "ishshah" or "woman" can mean "wife" in some sentences, but it's best to stick to "woman" so the reader get the idea each Hebrew is translated the same English word, as Jeff Benner, and Martin Luther does)
5- Entire sentences require context
( Rob: Yes, to establish meaning of the sentence of words, not to change the meaning of a word because of the sentence the word is in)
6- Entire passages require context
( Rob: Yes, perhaps, but the words should have the same basic meaning)
Without using any other verse from Luke explain this verse – Jesus says, Luk 19:27 But these mine enemies, that would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
"Reign" is a vital clue. "basileuo" meaning,
Ro 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned "basileuo" from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
This passage explains what "basileuo" means, a king rules or "basileuo". Adam was a "basileuo" , Adam ruled planet earth. Sure you can have subjects choose to sin in His kingdom, but the king did not fall, nor his kingdom fall until the king doing "basileuo" sinned also. "condemnation" is also a court ruling, over the fact when Adam sinned his kingdom ruling came to an end. Verse 19 should read For as by one man's disobedience many were "ruled" sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be "ruled" righteous. Why do I choose "ruled" or to "establish one to rule" , because it fits with the passage about "basileuo" , to reign as a king reigns, to rule over us.
Luk 19:27 But these mine enemies, that would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
So does Jesus have claim to rule planet earth as a new king over earth? Yes. He died to bring back the fallen kingdom from Satan, who caused Adam to lose his crown and title as king. SO Jesus is a human, born of Adam, without sin, died to get the crown back from Satan, as proper king over all humans. But only those humans who want Jesus as His king. What does a king do to subjects who do not like His kingdom? They die.
My understanding of parables is they have a single message, and not all aspects of the story may be always true. Here I am refering to Jesus asking humans to kill humans before Jesus, the Son of GOD. This would be a violation of the sixth command, no wounding, no killing, no murder. How does GOD kill those who do not want this new king, but rather have Satan as king? He takes away the Holy Spirit of living in us, and the breath of living falls away, and we return to dust. God has this right, because all creatures alive, are alive because GOD wills this probation time, even to wicked people.
Dave says" Ezk 26,27,and 28 83 verses about the King of Tyre – Catholics pick 4 verses in the middle of those to build your satan theology around
OUT OF CONTEXT
Rob says" I suppose one parable out of context is Lazurus in heaven while the rich man is in purgutory wanting cool water. So I get your point. Doubt is also written in Scripture for a reason:
Mt 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
How do you asrtertain truth than? Look up all lines upon lines, over the entire Bible of torah.
"war in heaven" is a passage you could not explain.
This implies "sin in heaven" does it not?
Dave writes:
Word games Dave: The hills were covered (with) the "mighty ones" of cedars Dave: "Thy righteousness is like the "mighty ones" of mountains Dave: "Enflaming yourselves with (other) "mighty ones" (idols)
Do not put words in my mouth
The hills were covered with the – or in the – mighty cedars They righteousness is like the mighty mountains Enflaming yourselves with mighty idols
You should learn to translate before you criticize translations
Rob: " Sorry if my child like translation skills are poor, not meaning to upset you, only taking what you say and apply it to strange verses. I do this with Jeff Benner too. The little prefix words don't matter as much as the big meanings of the main words in a sentence. So let's not nit pick over little matters.
"el" meaning "mighty ones" or "strong authority" , not much difference really. I prefer "strong authority".
Dave writes"
I am tired of quoting James 1:13 to you You OBVIOUSLY do not know what I believe You are DELIBERATELY misrepresenting me – as any serious academic student of the word would?
Rob replies" Sorry if you mis read my intentions.
Jas 1:13 ¶ Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
God is not tempted with ra. Well that means GOD doesn't personally do Ra.
When you say God has a department to do his ra, in a court room we say this is an assessory , God is still doing Ra, even if not directly. To me, RA comes from relationship changes to GOD, hence we do the Ra, but GOD allows us to see our sinning because He is light, so GOD creates our observation of our RA.
I define Ra as a relationship with sinning, you define ra as a natural byproduct of creation, a thing God allowed to make his glory more fuller? Doesn't thing remove sin and relationship, thus we are naturally born with tov and ra?
Rob: I would say GOD exposes the RA you make yourself,
Dave: Again you have a second creator
How is this a second creator? In the shadow experiement, I move away from GOD under his light, and I get ra shadows. Where does the ra come from? From God? no. From me? No. From the light directly? No. From relationship of all three? Yes
Why is this so difficult to fanthom? The Father makes the light. The light is blocked by me, The distance of me to God, causes the light to create a shadow of relationship, where ra darkness comes into being.
If I move towards GOD, the light doesn't change, God doesn't change, I don't change shape, the only thing that changes is the distance of relationship, and the ra shadows go away. You don't need a second creator.
Dave writes: There is only one author – there is only one Creator – YES!
I would agree with this.
Than Dave adds"
Gnostic literature agrees with Jewish theology One is from the Right Hand and one is from the Left Hand When the First product of the HS opened his eyes – he mistaking thought he was alone and therefore the first – when he said as much – he was corrected This was the first arrogant self-centered thought – the first God-is-not-absolute thought
Rob replies" The gnostic writings are not helping you much here.
I though you say God is abolute and now you say "the first God-is-not-absolute thought". I would say the Gnostic writings are false and written by someone covering for Satan. God doesn't make mistakes, He sees all, even the hidden mistakes.
Than Dave concludes:
Gnostic literature even tells us why God allowed it 1- So the Glory of God can be reviled 2- So the sum of all chaos can come about Why would God allow the sum of all chaos to come about? So the Glory of God can be reviled
Chaos is sin in another word isn't it? Ra is a meaning of sin isn't it? SO God designed design as a byproduct of his creation, so His glory can be revealed?
I thought sin came about from free will choice to choose a bad relationship?
Are there Hebrew verses on this idea? yes, but you don't like them... "war in heaven" implies "sin in heaven" does it not?
Rob asks" You are avoiding the questions I gave you. If the Archons are created by GOD, they have a good purpose according to you, than why are they thrown into the lake of fire and come to an eternal end?
Dave replies: "When the First product of the HS opened his eyes – he mistaking thought he was alone and therefore the first – when he said as much – he was corrected This was the first arrogant self-centered thought – the first God-is-not-absolute thought
This is the BEAST – who is the devil – who is always a satan This was decided in the GAP – and the reason for Gen 1:3
Rob replies again" You are avoiding the questions I gave you. If the Archons are created by GOD, they have a good purpose according to you, than why are they thrown into the lake of fire and come to an eternal end? Obviously they are not according to God's purpose? Archons are not good guys doing a bad job?
dave writes: "Yester ra within us is a product of biology - the instinctive desire to reproduce, conquor, and self-preservation
Rob replies" Absolutely not. Yester ra within us is a product of biology ONLY AFTER ADAM SINNED.
Dave replies again" Let me use your reasoning – your logic Eve could not have chata until after Adam sinned But Adam didn’t sin until after EVE chata
I don’t think your logic works at all"
Rob replies again"
I mention this with the term "reign", a king reigns over his kingdom. Adam was king of earth, on creation. He ruled earth as king. Is Eve sinned, this did not end His kingdom nor His title as king. When Adam chose to sin, then His kingdom ended. And Satan became king of earth instead. We find this in Job, when Satan had the right to visit GOD as natural king of earth. Jesus came to get back the king title of earth, as a son of Adam, died to get the crown of king back.
Hope this makes sense to you. Shalom my friend.
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Post by Dave on Mar 10, 2020 6:41:34 GMT -5
How does that fit with your God’s inability to control His own angels that He made deliberately to praise Him According to you a full 1/3 of your God’s creation turn against God But your God does not make anything with faults? He made you and I bet you have a few
So – the first thing you do is build a contextual reference
I have done so many times – Yes the Chief Archon sinned
Again – you continue to twist my words and make up your own versions of my post If you cannot grasp English how can you claim to be expert in ancient languages?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2020 14:00:13 GMT -5
Dave writes: "How does that fit with your God’s inability to control His own angels that He made deliberately to praise Him According to you a full 1/3 of your God’s creation turn against God But your God does not make anything with faults? He made you and I bet you have a few
Love is a weak force in a dyfunctional world Dave. Love is kind. Hate is cruel. Love edifies. Hate destroys. Love has free will. Hate has robotic control. Love is tov. Hate is ra. God cannot be both, for Scripture says GOD is love.
Now in a world of dysfunction, after the war in heaven, after the sinning in heaven, things are done differently.
As a parent, you might spank your kids out of love, to turn them from ra to tov. In a fallen world, Scripture says to do this.
When God saved Israel, how many were fully tov? Only Caleb and Joshua. How many required hard discipline? Is tov love normally like this? no But in a fallen world love can be hard at times.
Salvation is not just an event, it's also a process, and primarily a process. Love requires relationships, these things take time.
Is it a fault to create love with free will? no Where did hate and thus sin come from? Nobody knows, not even God. Its a choice gone wrong. The first angel to sin sat next to Jesus on the right hand of the Father, a keeper of the Ten Commandment laws of love. This chief prince or chief angel knew all things of law, for love is very particular. But he chose to not follow God, he desired to be God himself.
How many angels sinned with this first angel, was many. This angel could cheat, lie, deceive and make half truths, something GOD can't do, so evil has advantages in an unfallen world.
And in a fallen world, evil has even more advantages, it has force. So if there was war in heaven, thus sin in heaven. Long before mankind existed.
God created man on earth without war and without sin, but warned him of an opposer of GOD. This has to be, otherwise why war in heaven and why sin in heaven, before earth began creation? You say Satan only opposes man, not God... really? Such a term you make negates a war in heaven, an opposing of God?
Eph 2:1 ¶ And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
The chief archon is a prince of this world, sinning and making children of disobedience.
Joh 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Jesus came to judge the chief archon as a prince of this world.
Mr 3:22 ¶ And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. 23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
Who is the chief archon as a prince of this world? Satan = chief archon = prince of this earth = devil = first angel who sinned causing war in heaven.
Dave writes "
So – the first thing you do is build a contextual reference
No, I looked for the key word. Sentences has subject and object words, so I looked for the key word and studied this word, so what does a contextual reference mean to you?
Dave writes "
I have done so many times – Yes the Chief Archon sinned
You have Gnostic writings that differ from Hebrew Scriptures and Greek Scriptures over who archon is. I show you chief archon is Satan, the angel who sinned. Show me otherwise from NT and OT Bible only.
Dave writes "
Again – you continue to twist my words and make up your own versions of my post
Sorry not trying to twist your words.
Mr 3:22 ¶ And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. 23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
Who is the chief archon as a prince of this world? Satan = chief archon = prince of this earth = devil = first angel who sinned causing war in heaven.
Passages like this show chief archon is a prince who sinned in heaven, known as Satan. Gnostic writings are leading you astray with other thoughts.
If this is wrong, show me using the common received Bible only, start there. Adding supplements to show the Bible is in error, makes the whole Bible in error does it not?
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. This says to line up Moses books and the OT writings, maybe NT torah to the books of Moses first. The Gnostic must agree with Hebrew first, not the other way round.
Shalom my friend
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Post by Dave on Mar 11, 2020 7:16:37 GMT -5
You have Gnostic writings that differ from Hebrew Scriptures and Greek Scriptures over who archon is. I show you chief archon is Satan, the angel who sinned. Show me otherwise from NT and OT Bible only. Here is the difference. I fully understand your Catholic view 1-God is only TOV. God can do no harm. God is only love and mercy. And everything God created is perfect – He is incapable of making anything imperfect 2-Yet – your satan and 1/3 of all the angels were not perfect – in fact they have risen up against God and war against God 3- You God is weak in unable to defend / STOP satan and the evil satan created as a second creator god 4- Whenever God does cause harm in the ahl – you cannot explain it with a million justifications God sent the angel of death – but God is not the angel of death – so satan most be the angel of death, but satan is against God – so satan does as God commands – it is circle reasoning 5- and with the addition of Ellen Whites teaching you now believe that many of the ahl and agl prophesies no longer matter 6- you think RA is a mistake and not created by God or under God’s control The Gnostic view 1- God created everything and is everything – there is nothing without God God created TOV and RA – if TOV serves a purpose then so does RA 2- By the will of God – indirectly, by the left hand, the HS created the first archon (Chief Archon) The Chief Archon – arrogantly thought that he was alone (therefore no one else = no God This cause the choshek of Gen 1:2 – 3- Gen 1:3 God gave Light as the salvation of creation, The Archon were hidden within the choshek – this is their realm. The war took seconds – if that long – God wins – no contest The archon are sin – YES! – they are sentenced to Lake of Fire – no option The archon are now waring against man – because they are jealous of man Why are they jealous? – Because God made man after the angels are archon – and gave man a free will choice 4- God never does RA directly, or by the right hand – he has a left handed staff to do His will Just as the angel of death obeyed God – just as your satan obeys God – just as all creation obeys God – just as Canaanite tribes were used by God to test Israel over and over – the first thing God did for Eve was to test her 5- scripture is 100% true and valid – I do not have to skip over any scripture to hold my views – I am also not afraid to study any aspect of scripture – all prophesy will be fulfilled as written 6- RA was created on purpose for a function - For the purpose of making the Glory of God known to all creation – to introduce VIRTUE to creation according to the Kabbalah We were given a Free Will choice – without RA what is there to choose from a TOV only menu It is how you operate – it is how you function – it must also be how you think Whatever is said – you twist it into an obscure meaning so you can mount an attack upon it Yet – when confronted with questions – you evade then regurgitate Prove to me that every prophesy about the end of days has no barring to the Holy lands Tell me which birth story is correct – Luke or Mathew – or prove to me how the bulk of recorded History all must be forged and faked Prove to me that when God sent the angel of death upon the Egyptians it was TOV Prove to me that when God sent satan upon Job it was an act of TOV – Your God can only do TOV If you God can do no RA then why did He allow EVE to be tempted? If your God is only Love and wants us to be with him in heaven – why did he just leave us there? Why did God place man on earth to be tempted If it was not to demonstrate God’s Glory to all creation as the Gnostic texts say – then why? So many questions Catholics cannot answer – why does bad things happen to good God fearing people Catholic TOV only God is unable on ineffective to protect his followers or hold back the RA Catholic God cannot even handel angels that He created specifically to function as praise The Gnostic answer to it all – The archon serve a purpose – to test creation – to expose the Glory of God While your Catholic God is ineffective because He is sidetracked waring with satan Catholic God is perfect and can not make anything that is not perfect without flaws – yet creation is filled with RA – therefore your Catholic premise is flawed - God did not make everything TOV Scripture is plane - God made the TOV and the RA - He is God and it is He that does all things Your satan god was a part of no one theology until Catholics invented him around 350 AD You response – no Jew has ever understood his own language or the ahl because the Catholics say they don’t
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