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Post by rob on Dec 14, 2023 15:43:50 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
I note you edited my post, and confuse the forum with posting new material?
If James Tabor is so compelling to you, where is the mention of the words "satanas" and "Archons" - I have read and listened to his videos, and his website, I got nothing from him.... nothing at all...
The question is not about demons Dave, but WHO are the demons? WHERE did the demons come from? You ignore Rabbi Cahn's ideas which are the same ideas of mine. The demons come from sinning angels. Rabbi Cahn also uses Ezekiel 28 in his videos too.
My quest to you is show me your theories, from scholars using words like "satanas" and "archons", which you have not done as yet.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 14, 2023 23:53:16 GMT -5
James Tabor - I have read and listened to his videos, and his website, I got nothing from him.... nothing at all... Thank you for making my point for me You have read and listened to one of the worlds most recognized teachers of the NT + one of thye world most respected experts on the Dead Sea Scrolls – and you learned absolutely nothing The only wat that is possible is if you refused to hear
The question is not about demons Dave, but WHO are the demons? WHERE did the demons come from? Answer – They are all the BEAST – the serpent race – that we call devils and satanas (G4567) – DUH Answer – They are all the demons of the OT – other gods and shedim (Beelzebub) They are called archon by the first and second century Pentecostal Messianic Jews (Christians) God established a Contest between man and man’s seed –vs- the serpent and the serpent’s seed – Gen 3:15 They are our real struggle – Eph 6:12 They were created by God for God – Col 1:16 They were created for God – His Plan – His Will – Rev 4:11 If the BEAST exist – God made him – John 1:3
My quest to you is show me your theories, from scholars using words like "satanas" and "archons", which you have not done as yet.
Eph 6:12 For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Col 1:16 for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;
OUR REAL STRUGGLE as Christians is with the: the NON-FLESH AND BLOOD principalities ARCHON (G746), against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. - invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities ARCHON (G746) or powers
WHO were all created by God for God
If OUR REAL STRUGGLE as Christians is NOT with the: Rev 12:9 - the great dragon - the old serpent, - that is called the Devil and satanas (G4567), the deceiver of the whole world;
Then who are the Principalities of Eph 6:12 – in Ellen White imaginary denial land
Why do you work so hard to deny the spiritual realm and the evil spirit demons that hinder mans worship f the HS?
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Post by rob on Dec 15, 2023 4:46:32 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
You ask what does Ellen White say about principalities?
"Christ did not tell His disciples that their work would be easy. He showed them the vast confederacy of evil arrayed against them. They would have to fight “against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Ephesians 6:12. But they would not be left to fight alone. He assured them that He would be with them; and that if they would go forth in faith, they should move under the shield of Omnipotence. He bade them be brave and strong; for One mightier than angels would be in their ranks—the General of the armies of heaven. He made full provision for the prosecution of their work and took upon Himself the responsibility of its success."
"Terrible is the struggle that takes place between the forces of good and of evil in important centers where the messengers of truth are called upon to labor. “We wrestle not against flesh and blood,” declares Paul, “but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.” Ephesians 6:12. Till the close of time there will be a conflict between the church of God and those who are under the control of evil angels".
Rob: As you can see the demons are real but Christ is mightier, so by faith in Jesus, all our worries are gone and made to fall like straw. The principalities are understood to be evil angels.
Rabbi Cahn also speaks of the anointed cherub as Satan, thus the fallen angel has other fallen angels who make up the shedim or demons.
Your post Dave, should be about showing readers scholarly sentences with archons and satanas in them, so your theory can be supported.
While I investigated Tabors website, he does not speak of archons or satanas, as far as I can judge. It is up to you to provide the evidence, sorry, I tried to help you, but alas I could not find any scholar willing to use the term satanas as an archon being.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 15, 2023 9:20:47 GMT -5
"Christ did not tell His disciples that their work would be easy. He showed them the vast confederacy of evil arrayed against them. They would have to fight “against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Ephesians 6:12. Absolute Robert nonsense You deny that the archon / principalities exist
“We wrestle not against flesh and blood,” declares Paul, “but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.” Ephesians 6:12. Till the close of time there will be a conflict between the church of God and those who are under the control of evil angels messengers". Absolute Robert nonsense You deny that the archon / principalities exist
Rob: As you can see the demons are real but Christ is mightier, so by faith in Jesus, all our worries are gone and made to fall like straw. The principalities are understood to be evil angels messengers. Absolute Robert nonsense You deny that the archon / principalities exist
Your post Dave, should be about showing readers scholarly sentences with archons and satanas in them, so your theory can be supported. You deny that the archon / principalities exist Then post this as your own teaching Do you mean anything you say - or do you just talk - where is your credability?
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Post by rob on Dec 16, 2023 4:54:52 GMT -5
Greetings
I note you are tired by our BS, you cannot handle Pastors who are Jewish who agree with me, so no point talking further to you Dave.
I spent 4 hours writing to you and you spent minutes, less than 1 hour to answer all four posts.
Brevity Dave, is at it again.
I shall remember you weak scholars who support you, hardly call them scholars, but hey at least you found 2 people in the www willing to use the term archon. How about satanas?
I tried to find somebody, gave up. Nobody is willing to use archons as some satanas beast creature termed shedim.
Be honest Dave, nobody is supporting this entire view of yours?
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 16, 2023 12:49:24 GMT -5
I note you are tired by our BS, you cannot handle Pastors who are Jewish who agree with me, so no point talking further to you Dave.
The challenge to you is to provide a pre-Roman source for your satan god Just because Rabbi Cahn preaches in 21st Century America – does not make him a pre-Roman source Either you cannot understand the English language Or you are just posting Bull Shit
I can quote many Mormon preachers saying Jehovah was once just a man – does it make them correct? I can quote 10,000 Islamic Imans saying God has no son – does it make them correct? Just because you can find a 21st Century anything does not prove the teaching of the First Century It is not a study by you – it is just a presentation of your religious propaganda It is not a study of scripture - you just preach religious attitude
I spent 4 hours writing to you and you spent minutes, less than 1 hour to answer all four posts. Brevity Dave, is at it again. Brevity my ass – I have written the same answers to you over and over for four years If you call that brevity – then you prove you have not paid attention If I say something to you – you call me wrong and argue against me Then later you will post it by someone else as your own view
ABSOLUTE NONSENSE – complete lack of serious discussion
I shall remember you weak scholars who support you, hardly call them scholars, but hey at least you found 2 people in the www willing to use the term archon. How about satanas?
I have presented you with many sources – you look at them and say I do not understand what they say – but they do not quote the same word as Dave ABSOLUTE NONSENSE – complete lack of serious discussion
I tried to find somebody, gave up. Nobody is willing to use archons as some satanas beast creature termed shedim. Be honest Dave, nobody is supporting this entire view of yours? You say this in arrogance because you refuse to answer: If the ARCHON of Eph 6:12 and Col 1:16 are not demons / devils / evil spirits /and satanas Then who are they?
You admit they are you ‘fallen angeles of Ezk 28’ So you do admit the ARCHON of Eph 6:12 and Col 1:16 are demons / devils / evil spirits /and satanas
Your only argument = the word ARCHON You do this to hide your real error – your Ellen White Ezk 28 Catholic self-made satan the god of evil
Paul says the ARCHON of Eph 612 and Col 1:16 are demons / devils / evil spirits /and satanas WERE MADE BY GOD FOR GOD
YOU MUST REJECT THIS NT SCRIPTURE because it contradicts everything you stand for and teach to others as a false teaching
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Post by rob on Dec 16, 2023 14:51:19 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
I am sorry if you are having trouble finding scholarly articles to help your theories about "satanas" "archons" and "shedim".
I have tried to find articles on these words. OK you have found a few people out there willing to use the word "archon" once or twice or so.
Not really a passage discussing an entirely new religious belief is it?
Perhaps one should read the nonpublic sources where the so called real truth is hidden? Hmm? Masonic literature?
Not sure how I could read Eddie Baker secret books or Dogma books by the Masons, perhaps Walter Veith can help me??
I will get back to you and do some research.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 16, 2023 15:37:15 GMT -5
I will get back to you and do some research.
YES PLEASE DO SOME RESEARCH Go through each line of scripture and demonstrate to us how your satan god rebels, hates, and opposes God OR Find pre-Roman evidence for your Ezk 28 self-made satan god
Explain to us why you deny the relevance of 1948 Israel and Islam Explain why you disregard dispensation
Explain why you agree that the archon of Eph 6:12 are demons / devils / satanas /the beast / the dragon / the serpent race – but deny scripture when it says they were made by God for God
Explain why you deny scripture to preach a pagan pantheon of multiple gods
H3068 יְהוָה Yhvah (yeh-vaw') n/p. יְהוָֹה Yhovah (yeh-ho-vaw') יְהוֹ Yhow (yeh-ho') [as a prefix] 1. (meaning) the self-Existent or Eternal, the I AM. 2. (person) Yahweh (Yehvah), Jewish national name of God. 3. (anglicized) Jehovah. 4. (as a name prefix) Yeho-. 5. (As expressed in Hebraic Koine Greek) ἐγώ εἰμί, I AM (literally: I myself, I am).
Isa 45:5 I am Jehovah, and there is none else, Except Me there is no God,
Isa 37:20 And now, Jehovah our God, save us from his hand, and all kingdoms of the earth do know that Thou art Jehovah, Thyself alone.'
MONO – not poly
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Post by rob on Dec 16, 2023 16:43:12 GMT -5
Dave" YES PLEASE DO SOME RESEARCH
ROb" love to help you out.
Well start reading Jewish literature written between 200BC and 4 AD. Any writings before the roman edit.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 16, 2023 18:17:20 GMT -5
THE POINT – I seek the Judaism of Jesus Christ – His disciples – Hid original Followers – who were all Pentecostal Messianic Jews – with Jewish theology and Jewish demonology THE POINT – I seek the teaching of Jesus Christ Any other teaching that came after the First century that differs from that original teaching is ABSOLUTEY UNIMPORTANT AND COMPLETELY UNRELEVANT What did the Jews of 6BC or 6AD or today teach about satan and demonology?www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/5085-demonologyDEMONOLOGY. Systematic knowledge concerning demons or evil spirits. Demons (Greek, δαίμονες or δαιμόνια; Hebrew, [Deut. xxxii. 17; Ps. cvi. 37] and [Lev. xvii. 7; II Chron. xi. 15; A. V. "devils"; Luther, "Feldgeister" and "Feldteufel"]; Aramaic, or rabbinical, and as spirits animating all elements of life and inhabiting all parts of the world, have their place in the primitive belief of all tribes and races. When certain deities rose to be the objects of regular worship and became the rulers of the powers of life, demons, or spirits, were subordinated to them. But inasmuch as they were still feared and occasionally worshiped by the populace, they became the objects of popular superstition. Jewish demonology can at no time be viewed as the outcome of an antecedent Hebrew belief. While the nomadic Hebrews had much in common with the Arabian Bedouins in their belief in spirits (see Wellhausen, "Reste Arabischen Heidenthums: Skizzen und Vorarbeiten," 1887, iii. 135 et seq.; Smith, "Rel. of Sem." 1889, pp. 112-125, 422 et seq.), Canaanite practise and belief were greatly influenced by ancient Chaldea, whose demonologyis in the main pre-Semitic (see Lenormant, "Chaldean Magic," 1877, pp. 23-38; German transl., 1878, pp. 22-41; Jastrow, "Religion of Babylonia and Assyria," pp. 260 et seq.; Zimmern, in Schrader's "K. A. T." 1902, ii. 458-464). In Babylonia the Jews came under the influence of both the Chaldean and the Persian belief in good and in evil spirits, and this dualistic system became a dominant factor of Jewish demonology and Angelology. In Europe, Teutonic, Celtic, and Slavonic demonology in the form of superstition permeated Jewish practise and belief. See Superstition. demons or evil spirits. as spirits animating all elements of life and inhabiting all parts of the world,
Rev 12:9 - the great dragon - that old serpent, called the Devil, and satanas, which deceiveth the whole world:
have their place in the primitive belief of all tribes and races. have their place ORIGIN in the primitive belief of all tribes and races.
Rev 12:9 - the great dragon - that old serpent, called the Devil, and satanas, which deceiveth the whole world:
Canaanite practise and belief = Chaldea, whose demonology is in the main pre-Semitic Religion of Babylonia and Assyria,
G4567 - Σατανᾶς – Satanas - Of Chaldee origin Demons in the Bible. The demons mentioned in the Bible are of two classes, the "se'irim" and the "shedim." The se'irim ("hairy beings"), to which the Israelites sacrificed in the open fields (Lev. xvii. 7; A. V. "devils"; R. V., incorrectly, "he-goats"), are satyr-like demons, described as dancing in the wilderness (Isa. xiii. 21, xxxiv. 14; compare Maimonides, "Moreh," iii. 46; Vergil's "Eclogues," v. 73, "saltantes satyri"), and are identical with the jinn of the Arabian woods and deserts (see Wellhausen, l.c., and Smith, l.c.). To the same class belongs Azazel, the goat-like demon of the wilderness (Lev. xvi. 10 et seq.), probably the chief of the se'irim, and Lilith (Isa. xxxiv. 14). Possibly "the roes and hinds of the field," by which Shulamit conjures the daughters of Jerusalem to bring her back to her lover (Cant. ii. 7, iii. 5), are faunlike spirits similar to the se'irim, though of a harmless nature. The (Job v. 23. A. V. "stones of the field"), with which the righteous are said to be in league—obviously identical with, if not a corruption of, the (Mishnah Kil. viii. 5), explained in Yer. Kil. 31c as "a fabulous mountain-man drawing nourishment from the ground" (see Jastrow, "Dict.," and Levy, "Neuhebr. Wörterb." s.v. )—seem to be field-demons of the same nature. The wilderness as the home of demons was regarded as the place whence such diseases as leprosy issued, and in cases of leprosy one of the birds set apart to be offered as an expiatory sacrifice was released that it might carry the disease back to the desert (Lev. xiv. 7, 52; compare a similar rite in Sayce, "Hibbert Lectures," 1887, p. 461, and "Zeit. für Assyr." 1902, p. 149). the "se'irim" and the "shedim." and are identical with the jinn of the Arabian woods and deserts
100% King Solomon – 100% Islamic Jinn – 100% of Chaldean origin - ARCHON
The Israelites also offered sacrifices to the shedim (Deut. xxxii. 17; Ps. cvi. 37). The name (believed by Hoffmann, "Hiob," 1891, to occur in Job v. 21), for a long time erroneously connected with "the Almighty" (), denotes a storm-demon (from , Isa. xiii. 6; A. V. "destruction"; compare Psxci. 6, , "that stormeth about"; A. V. "that wasteth"). In Chaldean mythology the seven evil deities were known as "shedim," storm-demons, represented in ox-like form; and because these oxcolossi representing evil demons were, by a peculiar law of contrast, used also as protective genii of royal palaces and the like, the name "shed" assumed also the meaning of a propitious genius in Babylonian magic literature (see Delitzsch, "Assyrisches Handwörterb." pp. 60, 253, 261, 646; Jensen, "Assyr.-Babyl. Mythen und Epen," 1900, p. 453; Sayce, l.c. pp. 441, 450, 463; Lenormant, l.c. pp. 48-51). It was from Chaldea that the name "shedim" = evil demons came to the Israelites, and so the sacred writers in tentionally applied the word in a dyslogistic sense to the Canaanite deities 'in the two passages quoted. But they also spoke of "the destroyer" () Ex. xii. 23) as a demon whose malignant effect upon the houses of the Israelites was to be warded off by the blood of the paschal sacrifice sprinkled upon the lintel and the door-post (a corresponding pagan talisman is mentioned in Isa. lvii. 8). In II Sam. xxiv; 16 and II Chron. xxi. 15 the pestilence-dealing demon is called = "the destroying angel" (compare "the angel of the Lord" in II Kings xix. 35; Isa. xxxvii. 36), because, although they are demons, these "evil messengers" (Ps. lxxviii. 49; A. V. "evil angels") do only the bidding of God, their Master; they are the agents of His divine wrath. sacrifices to the shedim - storm-demons - In Chaldean mythology the seven evil deities were known as "shedim," storm-demons, It was from Chaldea that the name "shedim" = evil demons came to the Israelites, although they are demons, these "evil messengers" (Ps. lxxviii. 49; A. V. "evil angels") do only the bidding of God, Gnostic – the archon live a life of their own But God can and does USE them to facilitate His WillThe Nether World in the Clutches of a Demon.(From an Assyrian bronze tablet in the collection of M. de Clerq.) But there are many indications that popular Hebrew mythology ascribed to the demons a certain independence, a malevolent character of their own, because they are believed to come forth, not from the heavenly abode of Yhwh, but from the nether world (compare Isa. xxxviii. 11 with Job xiv. 13; Ps. xvi. 10, xlix. 16, cxxxix. 8). "The first-born of Death who devours the members of his [man's] body" and causes him to be brought "to the king of terrors" (Job xviii. 13, 14, Hebr.), is undoubtedly one of the terrible hawk-like demons, portrayed in the Babylonian Hades-picture (see illustrationabove, and Roscher, "Lexikon der Griechischen und Römischen Mythologie," s.v. "Nergal"), and the "messengers of death" (Prov. xvi. 14) are identical with the "servants of Nergal," the King of Hades and god of pestilence and fever in Chaldean mythology (see Jeremias, "Die Babylonisch-Assyrischen Vorstellungen vom Leben nach dem Tode," 1887, pp. 71 et seq.; Zimmern, l.c. pp. 412 et seq.; Jensen, l.c. pp. 478, 557). although they are demons, these "evil messengers" (Ps. lxxviii. 49; A. V. "evil angels") do only the bidding of God, Gnostic – the archon live a life of their own But God can and does USE them to facilitate His Will Hebrew mythology ascribed to the demons a certain independence, a malevolent character of their own,they are believed to come forth, not from the heavenly abode of Yhwh, but from the nether worldGnostic – they were the first sentient created with matter – not totally ethereal Because they are of some matter – it/they only saw matter / themselves This event caused their ejection from heaven They did not transgress any Commandment – they just expressed IGNORANCEGen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. Choshek – ignorance / darkness"messengers of death" (angels of death) Archon keep man sidetracked so we do not focus upon God / the Spirit of God / or the image of God "The first-born of Death who devours the members of his [man's] body" Rev 12:3 behold a great red dragon, In a plurality - having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. Rev 12:4 ready to devour her child as soon as it was born. CREATION - ENTROPYOther Demons. 'Alukah (Prov. xxx. 15; A. V. "horseleech"), the bloodsucker or vampire, whose two daughters cry "Give! Give!" is none other than the flesh-devouring ghoul of the Arabs, called by them "'aluḳ" (Wellhausen, l.c. pp. 135-137). She has been rendered in Jewish mythology the demon of the nether world (= see 'Ab. Zarah 17a), and the names of her two daughters have in all probability, as familiar names of dreaded diseases, been dropped (compare Ewald, Delitzsch, and Wilderboer's commentaries, ad loc., and the description of the demon "Labartu" in "Zeit. für Assyr." 1902, pp. 148 et seq.). Deber ("pestilence"), originally the death-dealing sting of the midsummer sun-god Nergal (see Roscher, l.c. iii. 257), and Keṭeb ("smiter"), the deadly hot wind (Deut. xxxii. 24; Isa. xxviii. 2; A. V. "destruction," "destroying"), are demons, the one walking in darkness, the other storming along in midday (A. V. "that wasteth at noonday"), against which God's protection is invoked in the incantatory psalm "Shir shel Pega'im," ascribed to Moses by the Rabbis (Ps. xci. 5, 6; compare Midr. Teh. ad loc.; Tan., Naso, ed. Buber, 39; Num. R. xii.). Possibly the evil spirit that troubled Saul (I Sam. xvi. 14 et seq.) was originally a demon (compare Josephus, "Ant." vi. 8, § 2), turned into an evil spirit coming from Yhwh in the amended Masoretic text (see Smith, Commentary, ad loc.). None of these demons, however, has actually a place in the system of Biblical theology; it is the Lord who sends pestilence and death (Ex. ix. 3, xii. 29); Deber and Reshef ("the fiery bolt") are His heralds (Hab. iii. 5). The shedim are "not-gods" (Deut. xxxii. 17); there is no supernatural power beyond Yhwh (Deut. iv. 35; compare Sanh. 67b). It is possible, however, that, as at a later stage in the development of Judaism the idols were regarded as demons, so the Canaanite deities were, either in disparagement, or as powers seducing men to idolatry, called "shedim" by the sacred writers (Deut. xxxii. 17; Ps. cv. 37); all the more so as the latter ascribed a certain reality to the idols (Ex. xii. 12; Isa. xix. 1, xxiv. 21; see Baudissin, "Studien zur Semitischen Religionsgesch." 1876, i. 130). the bloodsucker or vampire, the flesh-devouring ghoul of the Arabs, called by them "'aluḳ" All pagan beliefs find their origib inb King Solomon - witchcraft - magic - black arts The shedim are "not-gods" (Deut. xxxii. 17); there is no supernatural power beyond YhwhDeu 32:17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; Deu 32:17 They sacrifice to demons—no god! Deu 32:17 They sacrificed unto demons, which were no God, Deu 32:17 They sacrificed to demons, a non-god,
The shedim / Jinn / Archon / demons /devils / satanas were the ‘other gods’ of the Levant and the world But they are not God – or anything close to God -
there is no supernatural power beyond Yhwh there is no supernatural power equal with Yhwh NOT ONE MENTION OF SATAN OR EZK 28jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13219-satanSATAN:Term used in the Bible with the general connotation of "adversary," being applied (1) to an enemy in war (I Kings v. 18 [A. V. 4]; xi. 14, 23, 25), from which use is developed the concept of a traitor in battle (I Sam. xxix. 4); (2) to an accuser before the judgment-seat (Ps. cix. 6); and (3) to any opponent (II Sam. xix. 23 [A. V. 22]). … the concept of Satan as a distinct being was not then known. ... Satan as that member of the divine council who watches over human activity, but with the evil purpose of searching out men's sins and appearing as their accuser. He is, therefore, the celestial prosecutor, who sees only iniquity ... Yet it is also evident from the prologue that Satan has no power of independent action, but requires the permission of God, which he may not transgress. ... He can not be regarded, therefore, as an opponent of the Deity; and the doctrine of monotheism is disturbed by his existence no more than by the presence of other beings before the face of God. Dave - He can not be regarded, therefore, as an opponent of the Deity; and the doctrine of monotheism is disturbed by his existence no more than by the presence of other beings before the face of God.
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Post by Dave on Dec 16, 2023 23:52:18 GMT -5
THE POINT – I seek the Judaism of Jesus Christ – His disciples – Hid original Followers – who were all Pentecostal Messianic Jews – with Jewish theology and Jewish demonology THE POINT – I seek the teaching of Jesus Christ Any other teaching that came after the First century that differs from that original teaching is ABSOLUTEY UNIMPORTANT AND COMPLETELY UNRELEVANT
What did the Jews of 6BC or 6AD or today teach about satan and demonology?
Orthodox Judaism says Hebrew satan is an angel of the Lord working for the Lord In no way can Hebrew satan (G4566) be considered an opponent to God there is no supernatural power beyond Yhwh there is no supernatural power equal with Yhwh the doctrine of monotheism is disturbed by the suggestion of Catholic Satan as a god
Orthodox Judaism says Jewish demonology = the Islamic Jinn – shedim / shades / demons / archon / other gods
Jewish Mysticism = describes 72 shedim of King Solomon Interesting – Islam – the promise of paradise = 72 mansions with a virgin each (72 + worldly pleasure)
What did the Jews of 6BC or 6AD or today teach about satan and demonology? Next we have the Books of Enoch – Or- the Book of Giants Both of them begin with Gen 6 – and the sinning angels messengers of Jude and 2Peter
You suggest the Book of Jubilees IT IS NOT A HEBREW / JEWISH BOOK – it is 100% Egyptian Coptic Christian
(google) Who are the demons in the book of jubilees? According to the Book of Jubilees, Mastema ("hostility") is the chief of the Nephilim, the demons engendered by the fallen angels called Watchers with human women.
What did the WORLD say about the other gods before Jesus Christ?
Alien space gods from the star system Sirius – in Egypt Alien space gods from the planet Nebiru in Sumar Alien space gods – with atomic bombs – in India Serpent gods in India – Nagas
Rev 12:9 - the great dragon - the ancient serpent - we call devils and satanas (G4567), Gen 3:14 Adonai Elohim said to the serpent, “Because you did this, Cursed are you above all the livestock and above every animal of the field. On your belly will you go, and dust will you eat all the days of your life. Gen 3:15 I will put animosity between you (serpent) and the woman—between your (serpent) seed and her seed. He will crush your head, and you will crush his heel.”
What did the Jews of 6BC or 6AD or today teach about satan and demonology? What did the WORLD say about the other gods before Jesus Christ?
ANSWER = ‘Just outside our field of vision are entities that are anything but human – and they have been manipulating this world from the outside for eons – some people call them demonic – some call them the serpent race – Islam calls them the Jinn’ – David Ike The NT and the authors of the NT call them ARCHON – Paul, Luke + James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas – Me
Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Torah or the Prophets! I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. Mat 5:18 Amen, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or serif shall ever pass away from the Torah until all things come to pass. Mat 5:19 Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever keeps and teaches them, this one shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
THE POINT – I seek the Judaism of Jesus Christ – His disciples – Hid original Followers – who were all Pentecostal Messianic Jews – with Jewish theology and Jewish demonology THE POINT – I seek the teaching of Jesus Christ Any other teaching that came after the First century that differs from that original teaching is ABSOLUTEY UNIMPORTANT AND COMPLETELY UNRELEVANT
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Post by rob on Dec 21, 2023 4:25:13 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
These posts are short on purpose because I am doing some research.
Dave" The shedim are "not-gods" (Deut. xxxii. 17); there is no supernatural power beyond Yhwh there is no supernatural power beyond Yhwh there is no supernatural power equal with Yhwh
Rob" Your definition of god is going against Jeff Benner.
He defines a god as a personal being who knows both good and evil. The only way for a creature to know (meaning have intelligence to choose) is to sin, because all things normally in GOD's domain is GOOD.
We already disagree, because your archons good both good and evil, yet have no free will to sin, hence cannot know both good and evil?
ANyway off topic for now, we have discussed this some time past.
A question from my research
"DO you have any links mentioning the physical features of archons and what the shedim-archon would look like?
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 21, 2023 13:30:37 GMT -5
Dave" The shedim are "not-gods" (Deut. xxxii. 17); there is no supernatural power beyond Yhwh there is no supernatural power beyond Yhwh there is no supernatural power equal with Yhwh Rob" Your definition of god is going against Jeff Benner.
He defines a god as a personal being who knows both good and evil. The only way for a creature to know (meaning have intelligence to choose) is to sin, because all things normally in GOD's domain is GOOD.So the only way your god knows about tov and ra – is because your god sinned?We already disagree, because your archons good both good and evil, yet have no free will to sin, hence cannot know both good and evil?Knowledge / intelligence has nothing to do with the gift of free will Free Will Free Will = the gift to be able to choose God over world Free Will – choosing God or World Free Will – choosing God or World (creation) Free Will – choosing God or World (things within creation – created things) Free Will – choosing God or World (an idol of stone / or even gold – just creation) Free Will – choosing God or World (Caesar - a created creature – creation) Free Will – choosing God or World (Baal – a created creature – creation) Free Will – choosing God or World (devils – satanas – serpents – Beast – created creatures) Free Will – choosing God or World (other gods – shedim – archon – Jinn – created creatures) Free Will – choosing God or World – DARWIN – just creation Choosing to be a plumber or a doctor – is an independent choice – has nothing to do with Free Will Choosing to turn left or turn right – is an independent choice – has nothing to do with Free Will An angel can sing any praise he wants – is an independent choice – has nothing to do with Free Will An Archon can hinder man any way it wants – is an independent choice – has nothing to do with Free Will Biblical Free Will = choosing God or WorldJoh 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. --------------------------------------------------------- A question from my research "DO you have any links mentioning the physical features of archons and what the shedim-archon would look like? Testament of Solomon - Christian Mythology - Demonology ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/560/jewish-demonologyOR MAYBE Demons and Demonology in the Talmud & Early Rabbinic Literature - Jewish Conceptions of Demons ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/565/talmud-demons-jinnOR MAYBE Whatever ‘IT’ is, ‘IT’ is in Control - A Phenomena from a Multi-Dimensional Reality ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/553/reality-archon-todayOR MAYBE Please watch this video – I gain strength from it as a Gnostic Christian David Ike - You will never hear a better secular explanation of why the unseen world is real and alive. ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/529/david-ikeOR MAYBE (video) Archon or Islamic JinnThis video shows some support I am looking for, please comment on this. Shalom ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/531/archon-islamic-jinnOR MAYBE Rosemary Guiley – Shadow People ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/528/rosemary-guileyOR MAYBE LA Marzulli on the trail of the NephilimKoinonia House ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/493/la-marzulliOR MAYBE Jesus' Strange Prediction Part 1 - Chuck Missler Gen 6Chuck Missler - Koinonia House ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/540/gen-6-chuck-missler"DO you have any links mentioning the physical features of archons and what the shedim-archon would look like?ANSWER – they can appear as anythingIf the goal is fear – they will appear as – whatever you are most frightened by To some this is an evil gross looking monster If the goal is seduction – they can appear as beautiful and desirable – lust / wealth / power To some this is a Hot Babe as a slave To some this is a pile of gold To some this is being the ALPHA If the goal is deception – they can appear as a false god – even do some tricks Baal – Molech – The BEAST – serpent gods If the goal is seductive deception – they can appear as DARWINISM To educated to believe in God If the goal is seductive deception – they can appear as LGBT To woke to believe in God If the goal is seductive deception – they can appear as HEDENISM (yester ra) To busy to believe in God YESTERDAY – they appears as many false gods – they appeared in many forms Sometimes they were man-like gods Sometimes they were animal-like gods Sometimes they were openly space gods – Annanuki – Hindi – Egypt – ancient aliens – ancient astronauts Today – they appear differently – but still in many forms Shadow People – aliens – UFOs Protest organizers pushing the WOKE agenda Educators eliminating God from the schools Religious Leaders offering an alternative salvation (Second Great Awakening – Joseph Smith / Charles Russell / Miller-Ellen White / Bahai Islam) Religious Leaders offering an alternative salvation (Allah – Iblis – and the Jinn – all 100% Islamic) Today possession occurs – but is subtle To be possessed by a demon requiring an exorcist = VALIDATION OF GOD and scripture Instead – Putin invades Ukraine (one man effecting millions) Instead – Hilter’s final solution (one man effecting millions) Instead – Xi – (one man effecting millions) Instead – DARWIN - ANSWER – they can appear as anythingREALITY OF THE ARCHON 101Dave" The shedim are "not-gods" (Deut. xxxii. 17); there is no supernatural power beyond Yhwh there is no supernatural power beyond Yhwh there is no supernatural power equal with YhwhThe teaching of two gods locked in a cosmic struggle over God’s right to rule the universe IS PAGAN ZOROASTERIAN NONESENSE – not Judeo-Christianity[/quote][/quote]
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Post by rob on Dec 21, 2023 14:38:07 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
D" So the only way your god knows about tov and ra – is because your god sinned? An Archon can hinder man any way it wants – is an independent choice – has nothing to do with Free Will R" Correct. Any elohiym power is an elohiym power because it sins. There is no other way to know evil or RA except via sinning because all creatures were created functional ( ie good). God only ever creates functional (ie good).
I feel sorry for you to change how God creates normally.
Why was earth void formless and in darkness? Because sinning angels spoiled the earth, killed off all living things, and destroyed all things, including the landscape too, until nothing was left except a frozen 4 degree Kelvin planet. Jermiah makes a prophecy earth will become again in this form because sinning humans and sinning angels are doing the same thing again.
Job 12:1 ¶ And Job answered and said,
Job 12:3 I am not inferior to you:
Job 12:6 ¶ The tabernacles of robbers "shadad" prosper, and they that provoke "ragaz" God are secure; into whose hand God bringeth
Who are these shadah that spoil? Who provoke God?
ragaz 7264 The head walking (as ploughing).
So these shadad are shaking in fear, Jeff Benner explains and Job writes in Bible verses.
Why are they fearful?
Because they are afraid of God?
Because they oppose God as spoilers that spoil. (Hence the term "shad" comes from "shadad" the shad are functional creatures that spoil things.)
Job 12:10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing,
All things exist because GOD upholds all creatures including the shadad.
Job 12:24 He taketh away the heart of the chief of the people of the earth, and causeth them to wander in a wilderness "tohuw" where there is no way.
"tohuw" means an empty place of space. It records here that GOD causes all these bad things, but does GOD do all these bad things or does the shadad cause God to withdraw his powers, causing God to remove his goodness, allowing bad things to come?
Which is it?
Isa 24:10 The city of confusion "The city has become an empty space "
Why?
Isa 24:12 In the city is left desolation,
WHy?
Isa 24:16 ....the treacherous dealers have dealt treacherously;
Here is a clue as to why...
Isa 24:18 ...he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; Interesting
Isa 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard,
WOW, what causes this condition?
Isa 24:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high,
The host of high ones that are on high
A major clue to the shadad
The ones who do this are termed "shadad" and "melek" the messengers on the earth.
The shadad are messengers from on high...
Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Why?
Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
All living things are gone, including humans...
Jer 4:27 ...The whole land shall be desolate;
Jer 4:30 And when thou art spoiled, what wilt thou do?
Here is the same Hebrew word again "shadad" with the idea of earth being an empty space again, no humans are left, and all are killed.
Jer 4:31 For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child,
A poetry simile and poetry parallel, where is this found in the NT?
Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers "hareg"
These shadad do not just wound humans from salvation, they actually hareg humans, killing humans to death.
Re 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Several things from this verses, bringing together whole passages in the OT
The shadad are creatures who spoil. They were also spoiling the heavens of GOD, removing a third of God messengers, and also destroying the human child being born by the compassion-centre of the HS, during creation, spoiling humans as soon as they were born. 33 years later Eve sins, the the shadad spoil her womb preventing humans from being saved even if they repent of their sins.
Let's read some verses about the shadad and what they do to humans
Ps 17:8 ¶ Keep me as the apple of the eye, hide me under the shadow of thy wings, 9 From the wicked "rasha" that oppress "shadad" me,
Notice humans are normally keep safe as the apple of God's eye, from the "rasha" that function as "shadad"
Ps 17:12 Like as a lion that is greedy of his prey,
So these shadad, also as shad, actually spoil things on earth, killing all humans until not a single one is left. This process is beginning again, as we speak. And is the reason why GOD had to flood the earth, so stop the spoilers spoiling, of the entire earth would become formless again, as an empty space.
The reason why earth was an empty space is because spoilers were on earth spoiling all the features originally created there. (Gen 1:2)
God said "let there be light" because GOD wanted to reinstate His powers back unto the earth, for a special reason, to witness against the messengers who are shadad, who spoil the earth.
=========================== Dave" ANSWER – they can appear as anything REALITY OF THE ARCHON 101 ROB" Well this makes identifying them near impossible?
Dave" IS PAGAN ZOROASTERIAN NONESENSE ROB" My understanding is "mani" was influenced by "zoroaster" and "mani" greatly influenced the Jews.
In fact "mani" was a common religion in the Jews time. We ponder confusion together, how do you untwist the work of "mani" upon Jews?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 21, 2023 15:49:27 GMT -5
D" So the only way your god knows about tov and ra – is because your god sinned? An Archon can hinder man any way it wants – is an independent choice – has nothing to do with Free Will R" Correct. Any elohiym power is an elohiym power because it sins. There is no other way to know evil or RA except via sinning because all creatures were created functional ( ie good). God only ever creates functional (ie good).
your God only creates tov - why do you deny scripture?
Isa 45:5 I am Adonai—there is no other. Besides Me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not known Me, Isa 45:6 so they may know, from the rising to the setting of the sun, that there is no one besides Me. I am Adonai—there is no other. Isa 45:7 I form light and create darkness. I make shalom and create calamity. I, Adonai, do all these things.
your God only creates tov -who is your other creator god?
Joh 1:3 All things were made through Him, and apart from Him nothing was made that has come into being.
Rev 4:11 “Worthy are You, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, For You created all things, and because of Your will they existed and were created!”
Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created—in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen, whether thrones or angelic powers or rulers or authorities. All was created through Him and for Him.
I feel sorry for you to change how God creates normally. You deny reality and scripture to elevate your Ellen White satan prophet and demand that your god sins
Why was earth void formless and in darkness? DUH – it is called the Nebular Hypothesis
Jermiah makes a prophecy earth will become again in this form because sinning humans and sinning angels are doing the same thing again. Yep designed from the beginning to waste away - Entropy
It records here that GOD causes all these bad things, but does GOD do all these bad things or does the shadad cause God to withdraw his powers, causing God to remove his goodness, allowing bad things to come? Just your word game – how does this prove your self-made satan god of evil – rebelling, hating God, and opposing God right to rule the universe
Isa 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. Entropy – The BEAST that devours creation – the devils and satanas that deceive the whole world
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, WOW, what causes this condition? Isa 24:1 Behold, Adonai makes the land empty and makes it waste, twists its face, and scatters its inhabitants.
Isa 24:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, Yep – Judgment of man – Judgment of the sinning angels of Gen 6 – Judgment The BEAST of Revelation – the force of entropy
Several things from this verses, bringing together whole passages in the OT The shadad are creatures who spoil. – yep - entropy
They were also spoiling the heavens of GOD, removing a third of God messengers, and also destroying the human child being born by the compassion-centre of the HS, during creation, spoiling humans as soon as they were born. 33 years later Eve sins, the the shadad spoil her womb preventing humans from being saved even if they repent of their sins. Religious garbage
Nothing happened against God’s Will – it was all God’s Plan
Let's read some verses about the shadad and what they do to humans DUH – the archon oppose man – Double DUH
God said "let there be light" because GOD wanted to reinstate His powers back unto the earth, for a special reason, to witness against the messengers who are shadad, who spoil the earth.
Yes – very Jewish – very Gnostic Gen 1:1 creation Gen 1:2 darkness – ignorance of God came first Gen 1:3 God entered His own creation to Illuminate theTruth ===========================
Dave" ANSWER – they can appear as anything REALITY OF THE ARCHON 101 ROB" Well this makes identifying them near impossible?
Perfect example why we need to understand who they are and how they work Theirs message is one of deception - Rev 12:9 … deceivers of the whole world
Eph 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in His mighty power. Eph 6:11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you are able to stand against the schemes of the devil. Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, (ARCHON) against the powers, against the worldly forces of this darkness, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Eph 6:13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you may be able to resist when the times are evil, and after you have done everything, to stand firm. Eph 6:14 Stand firm then! Buckle the belt of truth around your waist, (CREDABILITY) and put on the breastplate of righteousness. Eph 6:15 Strap up your feet in readiness with the Good News of shalom. (the correct Gospel) Eph 6:16 Above all, take up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. Eph 6:18 Pray in the Ruach on every occasion, with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, keep alert with perseverance and supplication for all the kedoshim. Eph 6:19 And pray for me when I open my mouth to make known with boldness the mystery of the Good News, (Jer 1:5 = witness - the meaning of life - to revel the Glory of God) Eph 6:20 for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may speak boldly, the way I should. (I am a defender of the faith - I can do no other)
Dave" IS PAGAN ZOROASTERIAN NONESENSE ROB" My understanding is "mani" was influenced by "zoroaster" and "mani" greatly influenced the Jews. Why isn’t it a Jewish teaching? Why isn’t it a Judeo-Christian teaching? Why is it Ellen White’s teaching?
In fact "mani" was a common religion in the Jews time. Yes – Jewish Demonology – The reality of the Archon – the Beast of revelation that deceives the whole world has always been here since Gen 1:2
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