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Post by Dave on Apr 8, 2021 2:19:03 GMT -5
youtu.be/CAl7tkiihiwLA Marzulli on the trail of the NephilimKoinonia House is the ministry of Chuck Missler who I think was the best Christian Educator of our time. I fully endorse Chuck Missler, His ministry, and his guess speaker LA MarzulliI have often thought of taking his online classes - if I took any instruction from an organised group - it would be Chuck Missler I enjoy listening to LA Marzulli - he always has lots of energy I have read him - but I have not purchased his video series - although I have seen most of it I enjoy Rabbi Friedman as well but also do not pay $45 just to listen with an option of asking a question They (Missler ot Marzulli) do not include the Nag Hammadi so their base premise is Catholic Fallen angels came to earth in Gen 6 an fathered the Nephilim The Nag Hammadi is in agreement with King Solomon – these creatures are NOT good-guy angels that turned against God - they are an entire separate race of created beings
I just watched this again - glued actually Question - Do I agree with everything he says? Answer - I do not disagree Question - Do I agree with his end times senerio Answer - plauable as any future prediction by man POINT #1 - 10:00 He clearily identifies the Gen 3:15 struggel as Between - this ugly race of beings and humanity NOT - between satan and God POINT #2 - 25:00 LA makes a passive reference to Whitley Strieber Robert - if you do not know who this is - ask your UFO neighbor (wiki) Louis Whitley Strieber is an American writer best known for his novel Communion, a purported non-fiction account of his alleged experiences with non-human entities. Communion - the movie 1989 www.imdb.com/title/tt0097100/Question for Robert - After hearing LA Marzulli, would you call him a Gnostic or a Christian - or do you just think it is all ficticious lies
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Post by Dave on Apr 8, 2021 9:21:10 GMT -5
D"Your turn - please watch this video and tell me how wrong he is R I don't have the luxury to watch the entire video. Download 56 minutes? Yah 3;00 bible is best interpretation of itself 3:03 fallen host of heaven having sex with the women on earth. creating this hybrid thing called the nephilim Jesus said his coming is like the days of Noah, not the days when sons of god had sex with women? Ge 6:4 ¶ There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. OK and afterward is there in the Hebrew. Jesus said in the days of Noah, will be like that when we come back? like these hybrid beings? 4:16 his hypothesis that Satan wants to create mean in his own image, hence has a breeding for these hybrid beings. 4:20 we saw Nephilim in there, genocide, wipe them out says God 6:0 shows large skull from South America, where did they come from? First I do not support the idea that fallen angels, or even an archon can have sex with humans, making hybrid creatures, as this video claims. To me the term "sons of elohiym" refers to humans or other nonhuman sinless creatures, who follow the LORD. Simply look up all the terms to "sons of elohiym" and read all the contexts. As he says, the Bible can interpret itself. Creatures cannot have sex unless they are on the same creation kind. Cherub and humans are of different biological kinds. The term nephilim refers to giant forms of humans. How big do you think Adam was in height? Now I agree that in Noah's time genetic engineering was going on in the human race doing ra, and archons were helping humans to achieve this kind of GMO. We are beginning to achieve this today. Jeff Benner does not comment on H5303, so the term is used only twice. To me as we speculate, the elongated skulls are either GMO humans, or mutated humans, either bred that way or manipulated that was by archon agencies helping mankind do more ra. As for giants, this height is build normally into mankind. Adam was very tall and very large. Much larger than us today. SHalom |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2021 13:52:39 GMT -5
Question "Can creatures have sex with other kinds" ? Answer . no Discussion. A dog cannot have sex with a cat, nor a human with a horse. A tiger can have sex with a lion because they are of the same family kind. A sheep can have sex with a goat, as these are of the same family kind, and a horse can have sex with a donkey as these are of the same family kind. Cherub cannot have sex with humans as they are not of the same family kind. hellochristian.com/7191-did-angels-have-sex-with-humansApr 12, 2017 by Brian Jones, a Pastor of some Christian church, writes a great answer, I accept also. Shalom |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2021 14:06:04 GMT -5
All the verses that use cherub, not a single reference to gender, sexual equipment, or stuff about sex.
Ge 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Ex 25:18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.
Ex 25:19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof. {of...: or, of the matter of the mercy seat}
Ex 25:20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.
Rob" The wings are in fact ruwach wings, wings of the HS, which all sinless beings have, the HS with them in bodily form.
Ex 25:22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.
Ex 26:1 ¶ Moreover thou shalt make the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet: with cherubims of cunning work shalt thou make them. {of cunning...: Heb. the work of a cunning workman, or, embroiderer}
Ex 26:31 ¶ And thou shalt make a vail of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen of cunning work: with cherubims shall it be made:
Ex 36:8 ¶ And every wise hearted man among them that wrought the work of the tabernacle made ten curtains of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet: with cherubims of cunning work made he them.
Ex 36:35 ¶ And he made a vail of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen: with cherubims made he it of cunning work.
Ex 37:7 And he made two cherubims of gold, beaten out of one piece made he them, on the two ends of the mercy seat; {on...: or, out of, etc}
Ex 37:8 One cherub on the end on this side, and another cherub on the other end on that side: out of the mercy seat made he the cherubims on the two ends thereof. {on the end: or, out of, etc} {on the other end: or, out of, etc}
Ex 37:9 And the cherubims spread out their wings on high, and covered with their wings over the mercy seat, with their faces one to another; even to the mercy seatward were the faces of the cherubims.
Nu 7:89 And when Moses was gone into the tabernacle of the congregation to speak with him, then he heard the voice of one speaking unto him from off the mercy seat that was upon the ark of testimony, from between the two cherubims: and he spake unto him. {with him: that is, with God}
1Sa 4:4 So the people sent to Shiloh, that they might bring from thence the ark of the covenant of the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth between the cherubims: and the two sons of Eli, Hophni and Phinehas, were there with the ark of the covenant of God.
Rob" GOD dwells between angels.
2Sa 6:2 And David arose, and went with all the people that were with him from Baale of Judah, to bring up from thence the ark of God, whose name is called by the name of the LORD of hosts that dwelleth between the cherubims. {Baale: or, Baalah, that is, Kirjathjearim} {whose name...: or, at which the name, even the name of the LORD of hosts, was called upon}
2Sa 22:11 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: and he was seen upon the wings of the wind.
Rob" GOD flies with/on the angels.
1Ki 6:23 And within the oracle he made two cherubims of olive tree, each ten cubits high. {olive: or, oily: Heb. trees of oil}
1Ki 6:24 And five cubits was the one wing of the cherub, and five cubits the other wing of the cherub: from the uttermost part of the one wing unto the uttermost part of the other were ten cubits.
1Ki 6:25 And the other cherub was ten cubits: both the cherubims were of one measure and one size.
1Ki 6:26 The height of the one cherub was ten cubits, and so was it of the other cherub.
1Ki 6:27 And he set the cherubims within the inner house: and they stretched forth the wings of the cherubims, so that the wing of the one touched the one wall, and the wing of the other cherub touched the other wall; and their wings touched one another in the midst of the house. {they...: or, the cherubims stretched forth their wings}
1Ki 6:28 And he overlaid the cherubims with gold.
1Ki 6:29 And he carved all the walls of the house round about with carved figures of cherubims and palm trees and open flowers, within and without. {open flowers: Heb. openings of flowers}
1Ki 6:32 The two doors also were of olive tree; and he carved upon them carvings of cherubims and palm trees and open flowers, and overlaid them with gold, and spread gold upon the cherubims, and upon the palm trees. {two...: or, leaves of the doors} {open flowers: Heb. openings of flowers}
1Ki 6:35 And he carved thereon cherubims and palm trees and open flowers: and covered them with gold fitted upon the carved work.
1Ki 7:29 And on the borders that were between the ledges were lions, oxen, and cherubims: and upon the ledges there was a base above: and beneath the lions and oxen were certain additions made of thin work.
1Ki 7:36 For on the plates of the ledges thereof, and on the borders thereof, he graved cherubims, lions, and palm trees, according to the proportion of every one, and additions round about. {proportion: Heb. nakedness}
1Ki 8:6 And the priests brought in the ark of the covenant of the LORD unto his place, into the oracle of the house, to the most holy place, even under the wings of the cherubims.
1Ki 8:7 For the cherubims spread forth their two wings over the place of the ark, and the cherubims covered the ark and the staves thereof above.
2Ki 19:15 And Hezekiah prayed before the LORD, and said, O LORD God of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth.
1Ch 13:6 And David went up, and all Israel, to Baalah, that is, to Kirjathjearim, which belonged to Judah, to bring up thence the ark of God the LORD, that dwelleth between the cherubims, whose name is called on it.
1Ch 28:18 And for the altar of incense refined gold by weight; and gold for the pattern of the chariot of the cherubims, that spread out their wings, and covered the ark of the covenant of the LORD.
2Ch 3:7 He overlaid also the house, the beams, the posts, and the walls thereof, and the doors thereof, with gold; and graved cherubims on the walls.
2Ch 3:10 ¶ And in the most holy house he made two cherubims of image work, and overlaid them with gold. {image...: or, (as some think) of moveable work}
2Ch 3:11 And the wings of the cherubims were twenty cubits long: one wing of the one cherub was five cubits, reaching to the wall of the house: and the other wing was likewise five cubits, reaching to the wing of the other cherub.
2Ch 3:12 And one wing of the other cherub was five cubits, reaching to the wall of the house: and the other wing was five cubits also, joining to the wing of the other cherub.
2Ch 3:13 The wings of these cherubims spread themselves forth twenty cubits: and they stood on their feet, and their faces were inward. {inward: or, toward the house}
2Ch 3:14 And he made the vail of blue, and purple, and crimson, and fine linen, and wrought cherubims thereon. {wrought: Heb. caused to ascend}
2Ch 5:7 And the priests brought in the ark of the covenant of the LORD unto his place, to the oracle of the house, into the most holy place, even under the wings of the cherubims:
2Ch 5:8 For the cherubims spread forth their wings over the place of the ark, and the cherubims covered the ark and the staves thereof above.
Ps 18:10 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind.
Ps 80:1 ¶ <<To the chief Musician upon Shoshannimeduth, A Psalm of Asaph.>> Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, thou that leadest Joseph like a flock; thou that dwellest between the cherubims, shine forth. {of: or, for}
Ps 99:1 ¶ The LORD reigneth; let the people tremble: he sitteth between the cherubims; let the earth be moved. {be moved: Heb. stagger}
Isa 37:16 O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth.
Eze 9:3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;
Eze 10:1 ¶ Then I looked, and, behold, in the firmament that was above the head of the cherubims there appeared over them as it were a sapphire stone, as the appearance of the likeness of a throne.
Eze 10:2 And he spake unto the man clothed with linen, and said, Go in between the wheels, even under the cherub, and fill thine hand with coals of fire from between the cherubims, and scatter them over the city. And he went in in my sight. {thine hand: Heb. the hollow of thine hand}
Eze 10:3 Now the cherubims stood on the right side of the house, when the man went in; and the cloud filled the inner court.
Eze 10:4 Then the glory of the LORD went up from the cherub, and stood over the threshold of the house; and the house was filled with the cloud, and the court was full of the brightness of the LORD'S glory. {went up: Heb. was lifted up}
Eze 10:5 And the sound of the cherubims' wings was heard even to the outer court, as the voice of the Almighty God when he speaketh.
Eze 10:6 And it came to pass, that when he had commanded the man clothed with linen, saying, Take fire from between the wheels, from between the cherubims; then he went in, and stood beside the wheels.
Eze 10:7 And one cherub stretched forth his hand from between the cherubims unto the fire that was between the cherubims, and took thereof, and put it into the hands of him that was clothed with linen: who took it, and went out. {stretched forth: Heb. sent forth}
Eze 10:8 ¶ And there appeared in the cherubims the form of a man's hand under their wings.
Rob" Angels look and function much like humans do.
Eze 10:9 And when I looked, behold the four wheels by the cherubims, one wheel by one cherub, and another wheel by another cherub: and the appearance of the wheels was as the colour of a beryl stone.
Eze 10:14 And every one had four faces: the first face was the face of a cherub, and the second face was the face of a man, and the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle.
Eze 10:15 And the cherubims were lifted up. This is the living creature that I saw by the river of Chebar.
Eze 10:16 And when the cherubims went, the wheels went by them: and when the cherubims lifted up their wings to mount up from the earth, the same wheels also turned not from beside them.
Eze 10:18 Then the glory of the LORD departed from off the threshold of the house, and stood over the cherubims.
Eze 10:19 And the cherubims lifted up their wings, and mounted up from the earth in my sight: when they went out, the wheels also were beside them, and every one stood at the door of the east gate of the LORD'S house; and the glory of the God of Israel was over them above.
Eze 10:20 This is the living creature that I saw under the God of Israel by the river of Chebar; and I knew that they were the cherubims.
Eze 11:22 ¶ Then did the cherubims lift up their wings, and the wheels beside them; and the glory of the God of Israel was over them above.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Rob" Dave ignores this one verse on an angel who sinned.
Eze 41:18 And it was made with cherubims and palm trees, so that a palm tree was between a cherub and a cherub; and every cherub had two faces;
Eze 41:20 From the ground unto above the door were cherubims and palm trees made, and on the wall of the temple.
Eze 41:25 And there were made on them, on the doors of the temple, cherubims and palm trees, like as were made upon the walls; and there were thick planks upon the face of the porch without.
(KJV)
These are the only verses about angels (cherub) the NT sadly messes the words with messenger.
Not a single clue to angels with sex equipment.
Mt 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven
A NT reference to messengers in heaven. Humans have their sexual equipment switched off in heaven. We humans become like messengers of heaven, their sexual equipment is switched off.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Apr 9, 2021 5:06:15 GMT -5
Question "Can creatures have sex with other kinds" ?
Answer . no
What is a mule?
Cherub cannot have sex with humans as they are not of the same family kind.
Absolutely agree
Gen 6 is in no way shape or form about Catholic “Fallen Angels”
Impossible – could not agree more
All the verses that use cherub, not a single reference to gender, sexual equipment, or stuff about sex.
OK – cherubs have absolutely nothing to do with Gen 6 – agree
The entire Catholic concept of “Fallen Angels” just teaches doubt – as if anything or anyone could fall away from God rediculas
Rob" The wings are in fact ruwach wings, wings of the HS, which all sinless beings have, the HS with them in bodily form.
Spirit wings – spiritual – 4 faces = multidimensional - agree
Rob" GOD dwells between angels.
God is omnipresent – where is there not God?
Rob" Angels look and function much like humans do.
They can – spirit beings are energy beings – they can assume any shape they wish
The can even be the man next to you on the street
Rob" Dave ignores this one verse on an angel who sinned.
3 chapters in a row + 83 verses in a row are all about the King of Tyre
2 words taken from the middle – out of context – does not a religion of evil make
and your two words are not in agreement with the bulk of scripture
not one of your 49+23 verses support your claim
Not a single clue to angels with sex equipment.
Absolutely agree – the bane elohiym could not possibly be angels or Catholic “Fallen Angels”
Job 1:6 One day the sons of God came to present themselves before Adonai, and the satan also came with them.
You also argue that there are no such thing as men in heaven before they come to earth
Therefore the bane elohiym of Gen 6 cannot also be “MAN”
"YOUR THEOLOGY not mine"
The only conclusion – The bane elohiym of Gen 6 are neither good-guy angels or men
They must be another type of creature
A creature made with some matter and close enough to man to procreate
Question – what heavenly beings do we know had offspring / children
Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: a great fiery red dragon that had seven heads and ten horns, and seven royal crowns on his heads.
The Beast of revelation – the First Archon who came with – who fathered for itself
7 Generals + 10 Dimensions – 72 domains, each with an archon of its own - the promised destination for a good Muslim warrior promised to him by the god that calls himself - the god of deception
Deny all you want – your denial does not change the fact
So – what of the rest of LA Marzulli’s presentation?
Do you also doubt that he had a born again experience as Paul did
Taken to the third heaven – in the body or out he does not know
Vision of the future
To you this must be fakery – Paul must have lied about his experience
What of the red haired giants of America and South America? also fake?
What of the elongated skulls
What of the UFOs and aliens
Why do you deny reality – in favor of your SDA satan doctrine
Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the worldly forces of this darkness, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Not only do you deny our true struggle
You actually defend the enemy – help hide them from exposure
Just pretend that they do not exist
Be completely unprepared for the end-of-days
Be completely unequipped to witness to your neighbor
And push Don Patton as some type of scientific genius
None of it supports the faith
None of it helps validate and spread the Gospel
Chuck Missler + LA Marzulli + Walid Shoebat = the Christianity I believe and accept
All the Nag Hammadi does is add clarity to Rev 12:3, the Beast, and Eph 6:12 the true struggle
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2021 16:25:55 GMT -5
Dave postulates:
The only conclusion – The bane elohiym of Gen 6 are neither good-guy angels or men
They must be another type of creature
A creature made with some matter and close enough to man to procreate
Question – what heavenly beings do we know had offspring / children
Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: a great fiery red dragon that had seven heads and ten horns, and seven royal crowns on his heads.
The Beast of revelation – the First Archon who came with – who fathered for itself
7 Generals + 10 Dimensions – 72 domains, each with an archon of its own - the promised destination for a good Muslim warrior promised to him by the god that calls himself - the god of deception
Rob replies: I am glad you agree humans cannot sex with angels.
So you postulate another creature of the same kind as humans? OK, where is your torah evidence?
your answer is archons? Hmm? I do not find they are of the same as humans in kind?
Have a look at all the verses that use "born" and see what clues we find?
Ps 7:9 Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.
10 ¶ My defence is of God, which saveth the upright in heart.
11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.
12 If he turn not, he will whet his sword; he hath bent his bow, and made it ready.
13 He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; he ordaineth his arrows against the persecutors.
14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood.
15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made.
16 His mischief shall return upon his own head, and his violent dealing shall come down upon his own pate.
Let the RA of the RASHA come to an end. is our first clue. Humans who do RA.
Job 15:34 For the congregation of hypocrites shall be desolate, and fire shall consume the tabernacles of bribery.
35 They conceive mischief, and bring forth vanity, and their belly prepareth deceit.
(KJV)
Same idea, from humans.
Pr 13:17 ¶ A wicked messenger falleth into mischief: but a faithful ambassador is health.
RASHA MALAK falls into RA. Could this include other messengers apart from humans?
Isa 59:4 None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.
5 They hatch cockatrice' eggs, and weave the spider's web: he that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out into a viper.
Other similes mentioned here apart from humans....
Let's investigate the Hebrew words for some of these
Isa 30:6 The burden of the beasts of the south: into the land of trouble and anguish, from whence come the young and old lion, the viper and fiery flying serpent, they will carry their ri
Notice the list of similes, creatures that do RA, mischief, and also born.
young lions and old lions
vipers and flying saraph
These are massive clues Dave, not a single mention of shedim or archons.
My understanding is a flying saraph is an cherub. These similes are not names of creatures, (though viper and lion are mentioned) they are functional descriptors of creatures.
The angel roars like a lion
The burning angel fly like a serpent.
Now to the sex problem. Have you ever studied the Hebrew word yada?
Literally means lots of things, yet without polysemy must mean one meaning. "Intimacy"
I suggest the cherub that sinned saw the sons of men following God, and decided to yada RA with them, to make born mischief, and so inherit aven, propensties of RA for future generations.
This is what yada means, the implantation of words of power, for good or evil, but some contexts have become man being intimate with a woman sexually. It's a interesting words yada.
Shalom Shabbat
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Post by Dave on Apr 10, 2021 1:43:07 GMT -5
Rob replies: I am glad you agree humans cannot sex with angels.
So you postulate another creature of the same kind as humans? OK, where is your torah evidence?
your answer is archons? Hmm? I do not find they are of the same as humans in kind?Correct archon are not the same as humans – but they are made with some matter – closer to humans made of matter- unlike angels that are only etherealA donkey is a very stubbord animal - full of personality A horse is a very spirited animal - full of personality A donkey and a horse are two completely different species Yet they can produce a mule - which is a completely DUMB animal A horse or donkey will stop working when tired but you can work a mule to death For humanity - archon+women = demi-gods (Nephilim, Hercules) Gen 6:4 (TLV) The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, ... Those were the mighty men of old, men of renown. Gen 6:4 (KJV) There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, ... the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. Mules cannot reproduce other mulesBut scripture tells us that the Nephilim can - the Rephiem of the LavantNum 13:33 (KJV) And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight. Num 13:33 (TLV) We also saw there the Nephilim. (The sons of Anak are from the Nephilim.) (ARCHON) We seemed like grasshoppers in our eyes as well as theirs!” Gen 6:4 (LXX) οἱ δὲ γίγαντες … Who are Greek Giants – children of heaven and earth(wiki) The Titans were the deities in Greek mythology that preceded the Olympians. They were the children of the primordial deities Uranus (heaven) and Gaea (earth). Smith's Bible Dictionary – Gen 6:4 giantsThe Rephalim, a name which frequently occurs. The earliest mention of them is the record of their defeat by Chedorlaomer and some allied kings at Ashteroth Karnaim. The "valley of Rephaim," (2 Samuel 5:18; 1 Chronicles 11:15; Isaiah 17:5) a rich valley southwest of Jerusalem, derived its name from them. So you postulate another creature of the same kind as humans? OK, where is your torah evidence?Testament of SolomonTestament of Solomon, son of David, who was king in Jerusalem, and mastered and controlled all spirits of the air, on the earth, and under the earth. By means of them also he wrought all the transcendent works of the Temple. Telling also of the authorities they wield against men, and by what angels these demons are brought to naught. 12. And accordingly I Solomon glorified the God of heaven and Maker of the earth. And he bade Ornias come with his destiny, and gave him the seal, saying: "Away with thee, and bring me hither the prince of all the demons." 10. [D: sea monsters. ... The sea monsters are named Behemoth (the male) and Leviathan (the female) in 4Ezra 6:48-52, 1En 60:7.] 11. [D: he withered up their species and cast his fate to the ground] 12. [D adds: and to bring to completion the construction of the Temple] 13. So Ornias took the finger-ring, and went off to Beelzeboul, who has kingship over the demons. He said to him: "Hither! Solomon calls thee." But Beelzeboul, having heard, said to him: "Tell me, who is this Solomon of whom thou speakest to me?" Then Ornias threw the ring at the chest of Beelzeboul, saying: "Solomon the king calls thee." But Beelzeboul cried aloud with a mighty voice, and shot out a great burning flame of fire; and he arose, and followed Ornias, and came to Solomon. 14. And when I saw the prince of demons, I glorified the Lord God, Maker of heaven and earth, and I said: "Blessed art thou, Lord God Almighty, who hast given to Solomon thy servant wisdom, the assessor of the wise, and hast subjected unto me all the power of he devil." 15. And I questioned him, and said: "Who art thou?" The demon replied: "I am Beelzebub, the exarch of the demons. And all [19] the demons have their chief seats close to me. And I it is who make manifest the apparition of each demon."13 And he promised to bring to me in bonds all the unclean spirits. And I again glorified the God of heaven and earth, as I do always give thanks to him. (D: incertions= Comparison with the translation of D. C. Duling in The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha, Volume 1: Apocalyptic Literature and Testaments, Doubleday, 1983, - origional text translation is by F. C. Conybeare, Jewish Quarterly Review, October, 1898)Beelzeboul,- the father and chief of all the demonsMar 3:22 The Torah scholars who came down from Jerusalem said, “He’s possessed by beelzebul,” and, “By the ruler of demons He drives out demons.” Luk 11:15 But some among them said, “By beelzebul, the ruler of demons, He drives out demons.” Luk 11:18 Now if satan is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? For you say by beelzebul I drive out the demons. Luk 11:19 But if by beelzebul I drive out demons, by whom do your sons drive them out? For this reason, they will be your judges. 2Ki 1:2 Now Ahaziah fell down from the balcony of his upper chamber in Samaria and was injured. So he sent messengers and instructed them, “Go inquire of Baal-Zebub the god of Ekron, whether I will recover from this injury.” Mat 10:25 It is enough for the disciple to become like his teacher, and the slave like his master. If they have called the head of the house beelzebul, how much more the members of his household! Mat 12:24 But hearing this, the Pharisees said, “This fellow drives out demons only by beelzebul, the ruler of demons.” Psa 106:37 They even sacrificed their sons and their daughters to ‘shedim’ Deu 32:17 They sacrificed to ‘shedim’, a non-god, gods they had not known—to new ones who came in lately, ones your fathers had not dreaded. ‘shedim’,= non-god, gods (archon – Baal, Molech, Quetzalcoatl) Who are the 33 non-god gods of the ahl = shedim – offspring of BeelzebubSo you postulate another creature of the same kind as humans? OK, where is your torah evidence?Recognize what is in your sightPaul calls them archon in first century Greek
The disciples of Jesus Christ, John, James, Peter, Thomas, and Phillip all called them archon in first century GreekEph 6:12 (TLV) For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, (archon) Eph 6:12 (KJV) For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, (archon) Luke 12:11, 20:20 Acts 10:11, 11:15 Rom 8:38 1 Cor 15:24 Eph 1:21, 3:10 Col 1:16, 2:10, 2:15 In the reality of the archon – there is not one mention of your evil god satan
Only mention that they are children of Beelzebub the chief demon (archon)Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: a great fiery red dragon that had seven heads and ten horns, and seven royal crowns on his heads. The only reference to offspring of any type of heavenly being = bane elohiymOH YES! Do not forget the 2nd most quoted Hebrew text in the agl1- Psalms (68 times) 2- ENOCH (64 times)3- Isaiah (55) 4- Deuteronomy (44) 5- Genesis (35) Enoch – that is entirely about the bane elohiym and Gen 6So you postulate another creature of the same kind as humans? OK, where is your torah evidence?Gen 6:2 then the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were good and they took for themselves wives, any they chose. Not only do you deny our true struggleYou actually defend the enemy – help hide them from exposure
Just pretend that they do not existBe completely unprepared for the end-of-days Be completely unequipped to witness to your neighbor And push Don Patton as some type of scientific genius None of it supports the faith
None of it helps validate and spread the Gospel (google) What is aiding and abetting the enemy? Geneva Convention, August 12, 1949: Practice Relating to Rule 50, 51, and 107 Aiding and abetting the enemy is considered treason It is amazing at the absolute quantity of information you are willing to deny to protect your cherub chata two word theology So – what of the rest of LA Marzulli’s presentation?Do you also doubt that he had a born again experience as Paul did Taken to the third heaven – in the body or out he does not know Vision of the future To you this must be fakery – Paul must have lied about his experience
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2021 16:15:49 GMT -5
You presented some impressive torah teachings here Dave, so I had to read 2 Kings 1:2 , the entire chapter. Introduction: Read the entire chapter of 2 kings 2 :1 to 18. Hypothesis: Is Baalzebub the god of Ekron, on the same side as YHWH the God of Israel? Yes or No? Discussion: 2Ki 1:15 And the angel of the LORD said unto Elijah, Go down with him: be not afraid of him. And he arose, and went down with him unto the king. Elijah the prophet of YHWH goes to the king. Ra messengers seek the Baalzebub the god of Ekron, only to be met by a true messenger of the YHWH the God of Israel, who send these Ra messengers back with an answer, tell the king he will die. Conclusion: From this passage the Baalzebub the god of Ekron, is NOT on the same side as YHWH the God of Israel? These two "gods" oppose each other. ------------------ I do not consider the comments or writings of Solomon here you posted as inspired. Not consistent with other torah, and it they are NOT consistent, it is because thy have no light of dawn. Isa 8:20 Gnostic writings overall are not in harmony with the torah teachings. ---------------- D"Mar 3:22 The Torah scholars who came down from Jerusalem said, “He’s possessed by beelzebul,” and, “By the ruler of demons He drives out demons.” Luk 11:15 But some among them said, “By beelzebul, the ruler of demons, He drives out demons.”
Luk 11:18 Now if satan is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? For you say by beelzebul I drive out the demons.
Luk 11:19 But if by beelzebul I drive out demons, by whom do your sons drive them out? For this reason, they will be your judges.R" The Jews accused Jesus as a Shedim, following beelzebul as a ruler of the shedim. Jesus quotes this system as shedim as coming from Satan, wno has a kingdom, that like the Baalzebub the god of Ekron, is NOT on the same side as YHWH the God of Israel? These two "gods" oppose each other. D" So – what of the rest of LA Marzulli’s presentation?R" Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. If one part falls, all of it must fall. The torah must be 100% trust worthy and true, and be also consistent. www.refuteit.com/the-sons-of-god-are-not-angels.htmlVery good read, uses the Greek LXX to prove it's point, something Dave would appreciate. Shalom |
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Post by Dave on Apr 10, 2021 23:06:07 GMT -5
You presented some impressive torah teachings here Dave, so I had to read 2 Kings 1:2 , the entire chapter. Introduction: Read the entire chapter of 2 kings 2 :1 to 18. Hypothesis: Is Baalzebub the god of Ekron, on the same side as YHWH the God of Israel? Yes or No? DUH Robert – there are 33 ‘other gods” – what the Hebrew scriptures call non-god gods
All of them are archon------------------ I do not consider the comments or writings of Solomon here you posted as inspired. Not consistent with other torah, and it they are NOT consistent, it is because thy have no light of dawn. Isa 8:20 Gnostic writings overall are not in harmony with the torah teachings. Certainly not in in line with SDA Doctrine – I absolutely agree with that
and SDA Doctrine is not in line with the bulk of scripture – or consistent with Christian teaching---------------- Luk 11:18 Now if satan is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? For you say by beelzebul I drive out the demons. R" The Jews accused Jesus as a Shedim, following beelzebul as a ruler of the shedim. Jesus quotes this system as shedim as coming from Satan, YES ROBERT – each and every archon/demon/evil spirit can be called a satan These two "gods" oppose each other.Your SDA doctrine is not consistant with the Hebrew
The Hebrew calls the shedim – non-god godsYour satan is a god in your theology - at least you admit itD"So – what of the rest of LA Marzulli’s presentation? If one part falls, all of it must fall. The torah must be 100% trust worthy and true, and be also consistent.And yet you present Walter Veith and Don Patton as credible experts So – what of the rest of LA Marzulli’s presentation?Do you also doubt that he had a born again experience as Paul did Taken to the third heaven – in the body or out he does not know Vision of the future To you this must be fakery – Paul must have lied about his experience 2Co 12:1 I must go on boasting—though it does no good, I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2Co 12:2 I know a man in Messiah (whether in the body I don’t know, or whether out of the body I don’t know—God knows)—fourteen years ago, he was caught up to the third heaven. 2Co 12:3 I know such a man (whether in the body or outside of the body I don’t know—God knows)— 2Co 12:4 he was caught up into Paradise and heard words too sacred to tell, which a human is not permitted to utter. Is Paul lying to us?Your SDA Doctrine says scripture is impossible In fact - you feel justified in making fun of people who belive in the spirit You mock the spirit - and those who accept it - whether they are Jewish or Christian If one part falls, all of it must fall. The torah must be 100% trust worthy and true, and be also consistent.You say the same thing about Enoch the 2nd most quoted text in the aglAre you willing to erase those 64 verses from your KJVIf none of Enoch is valid – aren’t you saying at least 64 verses of the agl are also invalidThe torah must be 100% trust worthy and true, and be also consistent.Why isn’t your cherub chata consistent with the 49+23 verses of the ahl?Which Gospel must be eliminated fromthe agl - Mathew or Luke? They do not agree with the birth of Christ You profess belief in absolute rules – and disregard them at willYou obviously do not belive what you speak |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2021 16:49:27 GMT -5
Dave there are many things here you list, just to attack my view. You did not attack my study about your study, only added more confusion to your confusion. This is typical of JW's when you discuss a thread, if the thread gets too hot, they introduce another thread, and another, until you are overwhelmed and nothing is validated or discussed.
For example I discussed with them "parousia", does it refer to a literal coming or a "spiritual coming" whatever that means? The thread was the second "parousia" of the Lord Jesus to earth.
I went to the trouble to find a Anglican scholar in my local town with JW books, and a 1785 Epiglott in that book "parousia" is listed in meaning as "literal coming".
When the JW's returned I showed them the book and text. Oh, faces flat. Some of our older books made a mistake, and are superseded with better newer books. Really I said, so the Word of the Lord makes mistakes?
You, Dave are doing the same thing. The Word does not contain errors. The word was originally written in Ancient Hebrew, not modern Hebrew by God via Moses. The first five scrolls are called the first torah, from which other torah is to be compared. All all the torah must be in harmony with each other torah teachings, otherwise there is no light of dawn in it. I have studied torah right down to Ancient Hebrew meanings and find no errors in word meanings, but I have found a few typos and a few spelling errors and some strange contexts I do not understand. But overall the torah is extremely trustworthy unto salvation.
I presented my discussion on the hypothesis Is Baalzebub a ruler of devils (shedim)?
My discussions show that Baalzebub is an opposing kingdom to God's kingdom, I used the verses you showed me where you attempted to prove that Baalzebub is on the same side as GOD. It's not.
And your discussion about my discussion was "
Dave" DUH Robert – there are 33 ‘other gods” – what the Hebrew scriptures call non-god gods
All of them are archon
You did not answer my question" Hypothesis: Is Baalzebub the god of Ekron, on the same side as YHWH the God of Israel? Yes or No?
Rob would answer NO, both "gods" oppose each other
Dave did not answer, but would answer Yes, on the same side, the Baalzebub is a "scriptural "non-god god" .
Care to define a term that I do not understand, nor has anybody on the Internet heard of before, and surely is NOT written in the Hebrew in your meaning.
D"there are 33 ‘other gods” –
R" a discussion section is in my presentation for you to add your material, ? What other 33 "other gods"?
We are talking about Baalzebub, one so called non god god, as you write, is this force on the same side as GOD or NOT on the same side as GOD? Answer my question Dave? Not interested in other threads. Answer my question please?
D"what the Hebrew scriptures call non-god gods
Hebrew ? OK, what term are you referring to? Again you are creating another thread.
Answer the thread I gave you, that you suggested in your post. It was you suggesting that the Baalzebub is on the SAME SIDE of God's kingdom? I am saying that Baalzebub is NOT on the same side of God's kingdom, in fact these are devils who oppose God.
D"YES ROBERT – each and every archon/demon/evil spirit can be called a satan
R" so you are OK with shedim being also labelled satan.
OK and what does satan the Hebrew noun and verb form mean? "Oppose"
Not prosecutor, not adversary.... but "oppose" for all the verses that the torah presents.
Zec 3:1 ¶ And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and "noun-form-satan" standing at his right hand to "verb-form-satan" him.
Nu 22:22 ¶ And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the messenger of the LORD stood in the way for an "verb-form-satan" against him.
These two verses are enough to create the correct meaning for "satan" . The KJV uses the word "adversary" for all these contexts, but what in simple terms is an "adversary" ?
adversary
NOUN
one's opponent in a contest, conflict, or dispute.
"Davis beat his old adversary in the quarter-finals"
synonyms:
opponent · rival · enemy · foe · nemesis · antagonist · combatant · challenger · contender · competitor · opposer · fellow contestant · opposition · competition · corrival
My problem is I have to find a verb and noun form in English with same meaning, same spellings. Adversary has no verb spelling, but oppose and opposer does, and fits the same idea as adversary.
"Davis beat his old opponent in the quarter-finals"
Same meaning, opponent, opposer, oppose, same spellings for same meanings of noun and verb, with different actions of the noun and verb forms. This is how Hebrew words work.
An adversary is an opponent, a opposer who opposes you.
You might add, oppose as an adversary all the time, or only in some situations? Hmm? Now we are making context decide rather than the word meaning itself? So I suppose Baalim sometimes opposes God as a false prophet and sometimes praised blessing under compelling force to be a true prophet.
Question: what made the false prophet into a true prophet for just this one occasion? The fact that GOD opposed Baalim on the road? Question: Does GOD also only sometimes oppose evil or does God sometimes use evil for his own purposes? I would suggest GOD always opposes evil and thus while loving the sinner, hates their RA or SIN they do. Notice I take the idea that the word has it's meaning all the time, regardless of context. You as a Greek translator have learned that the context is the overall dictator of meaning the word in placed in the sentence. So we battle over the proposed polysemy in words. I agree polysemy exists, just as evolution also exists, but only as a spoiler of word meanings, or a spoiler of God's creation, never as some creator that dictates new word meanings depending upon context (never as a creator of new inherited DNA information making the creature better than before).
D"YES ROBERT – each and every archon/demon/evil spirit can be called a satan
R" so you are OK with shedim being also labelled satan. Than you admit that the devils oppose GOD? And that this beelzebul is opposing God ?
D" These two "gods" oppose each other.
Your SDA doctrine is not consistent with the Hebrew
The Hebrew calls the shedim – non-god gods
Your satan is a god in your theology - at least you admit it
R" SO now you want the shedim as a meaning that does not oppose GOD, or be an opponent to GOD, or be an adversary to GOD?
Specifically what would the shedim (devils) oppose with GOD? since they do RA and SIN?
Would you agree the shedim SIN Dave?
Were the shedim banished from heaven because they SINNED? I wonder?
If GOD created mankind as sinless, the fact the shedim tricked man into SINNING? Why would the shedim do that? Get man to SIN, along with the Shedim who also SIN?
You say that was the shedim's function, designed by GOD; was to do SIN as some good designed purpose?
Really? can a creature doing SIN really be termed good?
But again we are off the thread of the hypothesis: Which was Is beelzebul the chief of the shedim on the same side as GOD? or a kingdom opposing GOD?
In the passage of 2 Kings, the king who is sick asks the prophets who are false to seek beelzebul the chief of the shedim, for an answer to his healing of this sickness? As the false prophets seek the shedim, a true prophet asks them why do you seek shedim when there is a GOD in heaven who knows all things?
SO from this passage, is beelzebul the chief of the shedim, opposing GOD or NOT? Clearly the beelzebul the chief of the shedim is opposing GOD.
beelzebul the chief of the shedim is opposing GOD by getting the humans to SIN, more and more.
Now I could discuss your other threads you present, but really one should discuss one hypothesis at a time.
Question: Does SIN oppose GOD? and thus a SINNER oppose GOD? Not that the sinner can do anything to oppose GOD, for GOD is greater than the relationship. But I refer to the fact the when you miss in relationship, the relationship is strained, so God cannot flow his love into you as before, so your missing opposes God, in this sense.
D"The Hebrew calls the shedim – non-god gods
R really? Where ?
Ps 106:37 Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils,
(KJV)
De 32:17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.
THis verse gives some clues.
De 32:17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to Father in Heaven (eloah); to gods (elohiym - family power) whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.
Why does the Shedim get referenced to Eloah directly, and not to elohiym ?
The Hebrew word eloah, means "Father deity" in all contexts, often to the Father in heaven, and sometimes to the pagan father gods on earth.
Shedim must therefore be devils under the leader of a pagan father god on earth.
Is there any evidence for this idea?
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Notice the same terms
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your eloah - father the devil - shedim,
Same link to De 32:17.
Jesus calls this devil a murderer from the beginning, hence SINS as defined by the royal torah, and thus the devil has free will to choose to be a murderer.
Jesus also calls the father devil a liar, also a transgression of the royal law, hence SINS.
And therefore any creature that SIN's by definition is opposing GOD, because God's love cannot flow into Him as before. And according to the royal law, anybody who sins gets the experience eternal non-existence. Since the sinning is the first time sinning has happened before, God's grace overrules the royal law for a time of probation.
Now I am happy to discuss other threads Dave, one at a time.
SO add you discussion here, attack the discussion, not add new threads.
Answer the hypothesis : Is beelzebul the chief of the shedim, an adversary to GOD, thus opposing GOD's love from flowing into humans because they are sinning?
The main method of opposing GOD is to get humans to sin more and more, the beelzebul the chief of the shedim do this by sinning themselves with more depravity than humans do, so monkey see monkey do, and these two creatures (shedim and adam) sin together. The father is understood in Hebrew to mean a "provider for evil", hence the devils think up more and more wicked ways to sin, thus get humans to sin, and this is what the evil king did in 2 Kings, He sought with the beelzebul the chief of the shedim, for answers to his questions, not the GOD of heaven.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Apr 11, 2021 19:49:16 GMT -5
Dave there are many things here you list, just to attack my view.. This is typical of JW's when you discuss a thread, if the thread gets too hot, they introduce another thread, and another, until you are overwhelmed and nothing is validated or discussed. You accuse me of changing the subject?Nice try – guy who only asks question but doesn’t have to answer mine
If I missed your point – try ask your point instead of talking all around itFor example I discussed with them "parousia", does it refer to a literal coming or a "spiritual coming" It is both1Jn 3:2 Loved ones, now we are God’s children; and it has not yet been revealed what we will be. But we do know that when it’s revealed, we shall be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. You, Dave are doing the same thing. The Word does not contain errors.Depends on what you call the WORD – you think it the KJV
And yes – it is not consistantWas Jesus born 2 years before King Herod died as Mathew says Or 6 to 9 years and two kings later as Luke says YOU REFUSE TO EVEN DISUSS ITAre the patriarchs buried as Moses said in the ahl or s Steven said in the agl – every Rabbi asks YOU REFUSE TO EVEN DISUSS ITWhy does the Catholic Mark of Cain lead to racism of the Blacks YOU REFUSE TO EVEN DISUSS ITWhy doesn’t your cherub chata agree with all the other verses about satan within the ahlYOU REFUSE TO EVEN DISUSS IT – you just fall back on 2 standalone verses as defense But overall the torah is extremely trustworthy unto salvation.Who said it isn’t - certainly not meI presented my discussion on the hypothesis Is Baalzebub a ruler of devils (shedim)?YES agree – Belzeeboul or Beelzebub - is the Chief Archon – or his general over this area of responsibilityMy discussions show that Baalzebub is an opposing kingdom to God's kingdom,God’s Kingdom is the entire multiverse
The domain of the archon is physical 3D creation and has been since Gen 1:2I used the verses you showed me where you attempted to prove that Baalzebub is on the same side as GOD. It's not.Who said that the Chief Archon or his General Devil is on the same side as God
The domain of the archon is physical 3D creation and has been since Gen 1:2And your discussion about my discussion was "Dave" DUH Robert – there are 33 ‘other gods” – what the Hebrew scriptures call non-god gods All of them are archon YES Robert – each and everyone of the “non-god gods” / ‘other gods’ are archon /shedimYou did not answer my question" Hypothesis: Is Baalzebub the god of Ekron, on the same side as YHWH the God of Israel? Yes or No?For the 25 Millionth time – the archon are self-driven / self-centered / yester ra only creatures / just like cockroaches / termintes / bacterian / or cows – they are creatures made with some matterWas WWII Emperor Ito on God’s side – or just trying to own the WORLD Was Caesar Augustus on God’s side – or just trying to rule the WORLD The Archon are the Masters / the rulers / of WORLD – it is their domaine Dave did not answer, but would answer Yes, on the same side, the Baalzebub is a "scriptural "non-god god" .
Care to define a term that I do not understand, nor has anybody on the Internet heard of before, and surely is NOT written in the Hebrew in your meaning.Deu 32:17 (TLV) They sacrificed to demons, a non-god, gods they had not known—to new ones who came in lately, ones your fathers had not dreaded. Deut 32:17 (OJB) They sacrificed unto shedim (demons), not to G-d; to elohim whom they knew not, to chadashim (new g-ds), new arrivals, whom Avoteichem feared not. Deu 32:17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not. D"there are 33 ‘other gods” – non-god godsR" a discussion section is in my presentation for you to add your material, ? What other 33 "other gods"?Alphabetically A - Adrammelech, Amun, Anat, Anammelech, Asherah, Ashima, Astaroth, Astarte B - Baal, Baal Berith, Baal Peor, Baal-zephon, Beelzebub, Bel (mythology), Belial, Belphegor, C - Chemosh, (ask King Solomon about this one) D - Dagon, Dumuzid, G - Gad, H - Heresy of Peor I - Inanna J - Jah M - Marduk, Melqart, Micah's Idol, Milcom, Moloch, Mot N - Nabu, Nehushtan, Nergal, Nibhaz, Ninurta, Nisroch Q - Queen of Heaven R - Remphan, Resheph, Rimmon, S - Shahar, Shapash, Succoth-benoth T - Tammuz, Teraphim we are talking about Baalzebub, one so called non god god, as you write, is this force on the same side as GOD or NOT on the same side as GOD? Answer my question Dave? Not interested in other threads. Answer my question please?Archon – are self-centered creatures on this WORLD
This has been their WORLD since Gen 1:2
They are no more on God’s side as a cow or a rat They are no more against God than a cow or a rat D"YES ROBERT – each and every archon/demon/evil spirit can be called a satan R" so you are OK with shedim being also labelled satan.
OK and what does satan the Hebrew noun and verb form mean? "Oppose"Correct – the verb satan means to accuse, or opposeNot prosecutor, not adversary.... but "oppose" for all the verses that the torah presents.Incorrect – the job of a prosecutor is to accuse or opposeZec 3:1 ¶ And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and "noun-form-satan" standing at his right hand to "verb-form-satan" him. YEP to accuse or oppose Joshua as a prosecutor – it is his jobNu 22:22 ¶ And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the messenger of the LORD stood in the way for an "verb-form-satan" against him. Yes – and angel working for the Lord in the role of the accuser or oppose These two verses are enough to create the correct meaning for "satan" . The KJV uses the word "adversary" for all these contexts, but what in simple terms is an "adversary" ?Agree – and in each verse the satan was workin for the Lord to facilitate God WillAn adversary is an opponent, a opposer who opposes you.Absolutely agreeD"YES ROBERT – each and every archon/demon/evil spirit can be called a satan R" so you are OK with shedim being also labelled satan. Than you admit that the devils oppose GOD? And that this beelzebul is opposing God ?You just said - An adversary is an opponent, a opposer who opposes youAnd I agree – any angel, archon, man or God can be your satan when they are performing that functionBill is a used car salesman – but when he came to my house to fix the plumbing he was my plumber Fred is an insurance salesman – but when he fixies my electrical wiring he is my electrician R" SO now you want the shedim as a meaning that does not oppose GOD, or be an opponent to GOD, or be an adversary to GOD? Specifically what would the shedim (devils) oppose with GOD? since they do RA and SIN? Yester ra Would you agree the shedim SIN Dave? I have no idea what commandments God has laid out for the archonThe bulk of scripture tells us they are selfish self-centered yester ra driven creatures Do bacteria sin when they cause disease Do virus sin when they obey God to multiply by killing their host Do cows sin when they destroy your fence then your flower garden Or are they just dumb creature doing what they do Were the shedim banished from heaven because they SINNED? I wonder?The First Archon was cast from heaven – hidden away from heaven – because they are made of matter and the First Archon’s only thought was of self They do not belong in heaven Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. An ancient Gnostic thought that creation is the corruption A Gnostic Christian believes the First Archon was just the frirst creation of matter with creation If GOD created mankind as sinless, the fact the shedim tricked man into SINNING? Why would the shedim do that? Get man to SIN, along with the Shedim who also SIN?Deu 8:2 —in order to humble you, to test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His mitzvot or not. 1Ki 22:21 until a certain spirit came forward and stood before Adonai and said, ‘I will entice him.’ So Adonai asked him, ‘How?’ 1Ki 22:22 And he said: ‘I will go and be a deceiving spirit … You say that was the shedim's function, designed by GOD; was to do SIN as some good designed purpose?If you cannot have an honest conversation – what is the valueIf you cannot make your point with scripture – stop twisting my position just so you can argure against your on misconceptionsPlease quote me when I said God made the Archon to sin Do cows sin – do bacteria sin And if God uses an archon like a tool to rest man – why is it a sin to obey God You accuse me of changing the subject?Nice try – guy who only asks question but doesn’t have to answer mine2Co 12:1 I must go on boasting—though it does no good, I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2Co 12:2 I know a man in Messiah (whether in the body I don’t know, or whether out of the body I don’t know—God knows)—fourteen years ago, he was caught up to the third heaven. 2Co 12:3 I know such a man (whether in the body or outside of the body I don’t know—God knows)— 2Co 12:4 he was caught up into Paradise and heard words too sacred to tell, which a human is not permitted to utter. Is Paul lying to us?Your SDA Doctrine says scripture is impossible In fact - you feel justified in making fun of people who belive in the spirit You mock the spirit - and those who accept it - whether they are Jewish or Christian If one part falls, all of it must fall. The torah must be 100% trust worthy and true, and be also consistent.You say the same thing about Enoch the 2nd most quoted text in the aglAre you willing to erase those 64 verses from your KJVIf none of Enoch is valid – aren’t you saying at least 64 verses of the agl are also invalidThe torah must be 100% trust worthy and true, and be also consistent.Why isn’t your cherub chata consistent with the 49+23 verses of the ahl?Which Gospel must be eliminated from the agl - Mathew or Luke? They do not agree with the birth of Christ You profess belief in absolute rules – and disregard them at willYou obviously do not belive what you speak |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2021 14:03:47 GMT -5
Greetings Dave Sorry to have upset you, but let's stick with the thread at hand. Your Tree of Life Version, is very strange, and I suggest you do not use it anymore biblehub.com/text/deuteronomy/32-17.htmHave a look at the Hebrew words, now which word in the Hebrew has the meaning "a non-god" ? Deu 32:17 (TLV) They sacrificed to demons, a non-god, gods they had not known—to new ones who came in lately, ones your fathers had not dreaded. So the TLV is using H433 (eloah) as the term " a non-god" ? In my understanding the sentence reads" They sacrificed / to demons/ not/ to our heavenly Father / to elohiym-family-powers/ not / they did know/ to new ha-da-sim (H2319)/new/arrivals/not/that did fear/ your fathers. The only words I changed from Hebrew is H433, eloah, has the meaning of MostHighDeity, meaning pagan father-god or Heavenly Father-God. SO let's check how consistent is the TLV? De 32: 15 (TLV) But Jeshurun grew fat and kicked— you got fat, you grew thick, you gorged! He forsook God (H433) who made him. He mocked the Rock of his salvation. TLV is not consistent Hab 1: 11 (TLV) Then a wind sweeps through and passes on. He is guilty— This, his strength, is his god.” TLV is not consistent Gen 1: 2 (TLV) Now the earth was chaos and waste, darkness was on the surface of the deep, and the Ruach Elohim was hovering upon the surface of the water. TLV does not translate this Hebrew construct state? why not? though I do like this idea... Ps 51: 12 (TLV) Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me. 13Do not cast me from Your presence— take not Your Ruach ha-Kodesh from me Isa 63: 9 (TLV) In all their affliction He was afflicted. So the angel of His presence saved them. In His love and in His mercy He redeemed them, then He lifted them and carried them all the days of old. 10But they rebelled, and grieved His Ruach ha-Kodesh. So He turned to become their enemy. He Himself fought against them. 11Then His people remembered the days of old, the days of Moses: “Where is He who brought them through the sea with the shepherd of His flock? Where is He who put among them His Ruach ha-Kodesh? TLV uses different meanings for ruach and holy ruach? why is that? Luke 11: 13 (TLV) If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will y our heavenly Father give the Ruach ha-Kodesh to those who ask Him! Why does the TLV make ruach into spirit, but holy ruach into a proper name, Ruach ha-Kodesh? I do not see any difference between the terms. The TLV is NOT consistent with the use of H433, either. -------------------------This TLV, is another subject Dave --------------- D: Archon – are self-centered creatures on this WORLD
This has been their WORLD since Gen 1:2R" Still avoiding answering my question ? They are not called archon, they are called devils, or shedim. Are these creatures on the same side with GOD or not? Yes or no. My answer is no. What is your answer Dave? D"T hey are no more on God’s side as a cow or a rat
They are no more against God than a cow or a rat
R cow or rats or germs do not talk or get you to sin Dave. The shedim do talk, influence and thus free will sin like humans do and also sin. If the shedim can murder and lie, than they can transgress the royal law, from which these actions are defined as sin. R I see. The lion can do RA, eat humans. Does this mean the lion opposes GOD? Hmm? The gene switching program is corrupted in the lion, from man's sin upon the earth, Adam sinned and thus GOD cursed the world because of Adam's sin. This is a different subject you raise. Are the shedim just like lions, just dumb creatures? or are the shedim intelligent, shrewd and wise? with free will? R ...sure GOD created all the free will creatures, my question is are these shedim on God's side, or do the shedim oppose GOD? Yes or No. My answer is the shedim oppose GOD, by getting helping/ humans to sin, for the shedim also sin. So my answer is no, the shedim oppose GOD. And your answer is Dave? D" Correct – the verb satan means to accuse, or opposeR Finally we agree the verb-form-satan means to accuse or oppose (same meanings) D" YEP to accuse or oppose Joshua as a prosecutor – it is his jobR wow, finally you agree the noun form satan also means to oppose, the word prosecutor is another label of a legal person who opposes you, is a different thread, or hypothesis, but I will accept this for now. D" Yes – and angel working for the Lord in the role of the accuser or opposeR" Wow the messenger (not angel) was opposing the donkey and Baalim upon the road. Not accuse Dave, the messenger did not speak to the donkey, only opposed the donkey, blocking it's path. D" Agree – and in each verse the satan was workin for the Lord to facilitate God WillR you had to throw in your twisting of the meaning didn't you? AN opposer cannot oppose humans and still be on GOD's side, doing God's will? That is a ridiculous thing to say. So God does not want salvation to go to all humans? So GOD created opposing agents to try the humans so they sin, rather than seek salvation? If that your belief? How is that a principle of Love Dave? Allowing opposers to oppose God's love? ------------------------------------- I noticed I offended you towards the end, and you gave up reading my discussion. You introduced the Tree of Life Version on me for first time, so as a new version I checked it out and suggest you not using it. But this is a different subject to discuss. I am happy to discuss all the questions you raise, but one a time please. ------------------------------------ D" – and in each verse the satan (opposer) was workin for the Lord to facilitate God WillSo the king who does evil and sin, allowed the prophets to seek the shedim, for answers to his sickness, thus the shedim are doing the Lord's will in helping the king to seek them rather than the true eloah in heaven? Is this your idea of 2 Kings? the verse you showed me? So if the shedim is working for the Lord? why than does Elijah stop them seeking the shedim? My understanding is if the shedim are opposers, than the shedim are always preventing humans from seeking the Lord, is exactly what 2 Kings is all about. Hence why Elijah said to the prophets who do you seek the shedim, rather not seek the Lord? Shalom |
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Post by Dave on Apr 12, 2021 23:54:21 GMT -5
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Post by Dave on Apr 22, 2021 8:41:23 GMT -5
Angels who went for strange flesh - defiled women in Gen 6 OK? Any comments welcome about Jude here. – or are you afraid to acknowledge who our real struggle Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the worldly forces of this darkness, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Eph 6:13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you may be able to resist when the times are evil, and after you have done everything, to stand firm. Eph 6:14 Stand firm then! Buckle the belt of truth around your waist, Paul says absolutely nothing about a god of evil named satan Scripture validates scriptureRev 12:3 happened before Rev 12:5 Gen 1:2 happened before Gen 1:3 When the Great Red Dragon appeared in creation – the heavens were without form and void Ezk 28 happens much later in the creation story – after things took form Exk 28 has absolutely nothing to do with Rev 12:3 – The Beast – The First Archon Scripture validates scriptureahl says God is the Creator agl says Christ is the Creator Question – why is your doctrine contradictory – which of your gods is the creator? God the father – or Christ the Son Michael a commander of angel fights over the shedim about Moses. Not a mention of archon here, the passage is about angels, the messengers of heaven. Any comments welcome about Jude here. – so you don’t have to understand Who are you married to – your wife – your spouse – or your mate Or do you have a family of 3 wives? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2021 14:15:31 GMT -5
Ezk 28 happens much later in the creation story – after things took form
Exk 28 has absolutely nothing to do with Rev 12:3 – The Beast – The First Archon
R Really?
Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
The angel was in Eden.
thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Where is this place?
What are the stones of fire?
Doesn't sound like earth to me, some other place?
D" happens much later in the creation story – after things took form
R not all all, sound like things happened millions of years before Eden....
thou wast upon the holy mountain of God
Can't you see this text ? Where is the holy mountain of GOD? surely not on earth?
Ex 3:1 ¶ Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb
Sure there are places termed on earth as the mountain of God, after Eden.
But what about before or during Eden?
Eze 20:40 For in mine holy mountain, in the mountain of the height of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, there shall all the house of Israel, all of them in the land, serve me:
Seems to be a Hebrew idiom.
Da 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
Here is a massive clue, a stone cut from the mountain without human hands, breaks the metal image.
Obviously not some literal mountain on earth, but somewhere in heaven, where the Father lives.
Shalom
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