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Post by rob on Jan 12, 2024 16:32:47 GMT -5
Greetings Dave From email Messanic today:- " This whole account of God’s redemption of Israel from Egypt has a spiritual parallel in our salvation from the kingdom of darkness, ruled by haSatan (literally, the Adversary) and the Kingdom of Light, ruled by the LORD. We are delivered from haSatan through faith in Yeshua, the Passover Lamb, not simply to walk away and “do our own thing.” As it was for the Israelites, the purpose of our freedom is to serve the living God." Notice the Messanic email speak of the HaSatan as a personal Adversary. R previous post" NO Dave. The Opposer is a provider of evil, whatever that agency concept means? Dave replies" Word game – creator / provider R" That is a silly remark Dave, the word "bara" meaning Creator is nothing like the same as "ab" meaning "provider/ or Father" D" I agree – your Ellen White teaching is satanic error R" You don't have a problem with archon-princes ruling the earth, your only problem with me is the identification of the haSatan, as the chief archon prince who also sins and rules the world. You have not a single shred of evidence that your satan is a good angel doing the job of prosecuting human sin. And this Opposer is based on only three OT texts. The best texts is found in the book of Job. Why God has a judgement court meeting when attending Job on the appointed days of the feast is beyond me. There is a judgement of sorts mentioned in the Day of Atonement. However it is not so much a standard court room judgement. Le 16:8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat. sydneyjewishmuseum.com.au/jewish-culture/the-origins-of-the-scapegoat/ How sad the Jews did not do as the escapegoat was NOT to be pushed over a cliff to die, but to wander freely alone in a desert wilderness. " Tyndale however, who practiced Christianity, translated “Azazel” differently." "Today, the rituals of Yom Kippur have changed hugely since it was first described in the Torah, but the habit of blaming others for things that we ourselves have done has not changed so much since Tyndale first described it." Also not the function of the escapegoat, to blame the HaSatan for sins committed. " The Jewish pseudepigraphal book of Enoch (8:1; 10:4) refers to Azazel as the name of a fallen angel (demon). The Jewish community at Qumran also read it as a name (11Q26) with a similar interpretation. Although Judaism has been divided on the meaning, this idea generally is supported by the Jewish Targums (first century BC) and was the dominant view in mid-rashic literature, where Azazel is depicted as a desert demon." From israelmyglory.org/article/the-strange-story-of-the-scapegoat/ " The Lord used a prevailing practice but gave it new meaning fitting His unique nature and plan for atonement. That new meaning led to the cross, where our Savior experienced the full force of God’s wrath and Satan’s fury in bearing our sins and carrying them far away (Ps. 103:12). " Rob: One sentence at the end, that's it? How come a Jewish website is using the term "Satan" as Azazel? D" Either your satan is so powerful that he can – oppose the character of God, His law, and His sovereignty over the universe R" What do you think missing means Dave? By faith we live under the power of GOD and so our character becomes like God's character. But if we break faith, and miss His powers, than we are opposing His character, opposing the character of GOD. Correct. this statement is correct. What has powerful got to do with it? When your daughter rebels and opposes Dave's character, does this make her much more powerful than you? I don't think so, you read too much into the exercising of free will. D previous post"Your satan forced God to change His Plan for creation Your satan forced God to change His Plan for creation R previous post" Again you are wrong.Dave replies" Stop your bull shit – after Eve ate of the fruit your satan changed all of God’s creation into something flawed But you also teach your satan caused all creation to be flawed before creation – or in Gen 1:2 Over and over you blame choshek and ra on your evil provider - satan ROB" Some things in your words Dave. (1) Love never forces another. (2) The Hasatan forces and rules by force. So there is a difference in rulers here. When Adam and Eve sinned, reluctantly God has to allowed a change of ruler over them, from God of love and reason; to Hasatan of hate and force. When the couple sinned God withdrew his presence from them a little, cursing the land, cursing every aspect of living on earth. Did Hasatan force this change? No, scripture says God is not mocked, a person reaps what they sow. If you reap missing God's powers, than missing those powers you reap. Decisions have consequences. D" Over and over you blame choshek and ra on your evil provider - satan R" Darkness and ra are consequences of missing the powers of God in your hearts. This also happened to the sinning angels banished to the earth. " The Jewish pseudepigraphal book of Enoch (8:1; 10:4) refers to Azazel as the name of a fallen angel (demon)." Sometimes even Jews record things nicely. The Hasatan refers to Azazel, and is a fallen angel, also termed a demon or SHAD. D" Word game – your satan god provider of evil makes God change R" I don't get you, if creatures all have free will, and they exercise that free will, than God has to respond to the free will exercised. What is your problem? Are you saying you do nothing with your daughter rebels? Did not the Father watch and mediate all day long waiting for his prodigal son to return? Did not the Father run to the lost son? How is this a word game? The Father loves all his creatures including the sinners. But hates their sins. D" Isa 14:27 Isa 46:9 Isa 46:10 Job 23:13 And Dave's discussion of these verses? null D" A sinless humans is one less human in his kingdom, - true statement hence the Opposer opposes God's salvation. – absolute nonsense – God can reach into the depths of hell and save anyone – your satan cannot stop God – the suggestion is blasphemy
the Opposer opposes this salvation process – by keeping man sidetracked with worldR" Whose playing word games now? You are saying what I am saying Dave. Sure a sinner need only speak out and God will save him. No Opposer can stop this rescue. Agreed. You fail to understand what " sidetracked with the world" means. The Opposer has false churches, false atonement bread, false baptism sprinkles, false prayer books, false confessions, false preaches of the sacred word, false signs and false wonders. False ten commandments, false day of worship. False ideas of the dead. etc etc. How is a human supposed to know GOD or not if the deception is so real and confusing? Why are there so many churches out there then? Can you answer that so nicely with your " sidetracked" idea? D "I agree the Opposer cannot oppose GodR" I agree too , not in terms of power, might and other aspects a Creator has but a Creature does not have.
But the Opposer does oppose the character of God's love, by promoting sinning and thus self and selfishness. Only with exercising free will to rebel, is the Opposer on the same playing field as God is, with himself and with other humans. D" This passage is about a man - and men have /free willR" explain to me how a cherub / an anointed cherub is also about a man? Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; The Hebrew does not say "adam" it says "cherub" D" You have been given every opportunity to prove your Ezk 28 rebellion - you cannot - so stop preaching it hereR" you can't read Hebrew words even. D" Why did it appear on the planet to Miller and the ‘bah’ at the exact same time in history?R" I would imagine the Hasatan planned it that way so people like you can say Ellen White is a false prophet and thus be deceived? D" Explain 1chr21:1 + 2Sam 24:1 Explain – 1 Kings 22 We have been all over this - so boring - can we please move onR" It is not boring if you answered my questions:- (1) God is all there is, infinity, everything else is finite and thus created. Do you agree God is absolute in all things? (2) God created higher creatures with free will in order to respond to His love and loving. Do you agree all higher creatures have this ability to love God freely because the free will chooses to love God freely? Rob" So ends our discussion already doesn't it Dave. Question" How would we know angels have free will? Question" Does GOD force his creative powers upon His creation, or are the creatures of his creative powers able to respond to his loving? Question" Do so called dumb animals do loving things against their instinct? a) leapard eats mum chimp but saves a baby chimp b) gorilla take human baby as their own baby c) wolves take on human baby as their own d) birds sing songs every morning like love e) even Alex the bird spoke of her masters love just before Alex died. Ge 18:8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.If the three visitors all ate the food given to them by Abram, than this proves the angels have free will to choose to it, they are not "robotic pre-planned to function with instinct commands". Ge 19:11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: Can angels go to places of wickedness and smote humans with blindness, as "robotic pre-planned to function with instinct commands"? NO, it is more logical to say the angels used faith to make the men blind. calling on powers from GOD. These angels are ministering for GOD, and have an interest in love and hate, a conflict controversy happening on earth. Rob" I do not see GOD forcing his creatures to do designed plans, as if God is a dictator. I see the love and loving principles even in the animals. Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. If angels become mediums after Adam sins, and ministers after Adam sins, how do you explain this change in the design of angels? Da 10:17 For how can the servant of this my lord talk with this my lord? for as for me, straightway there remained no strength in me, neither is there breath left in me. Notice Daniel in vision, has no strength and does not breathe either. like Ellen White visions. Da 11:2 And now will I shew thee the truth. The angel talks to Daniel the torah truth. How can a robot know truth with such inference as this angel does, proof the angel is no robotic AI machine like BING the AI machine, which cannot make inference of words. No a free will reason, with GOD living inside the creature can and does make inference, because such a finite creature is partnered to the infinity. A robotic AI creature is only ever finite. (3) If higher creatures have free will to love God freely, than surely free will creatures can do this unknown weird thing to exercise free will and choose to disobey the powers of God which normally they seek flowing in their life. Question" Why would a creature not want to love, but hate? If everything is functional and perfect, how does free will make a choice dysfunctional and imperfect? Weird. Missing is weird, a mystery why it would happen. D" Either your satan is so powerful that he can – oppose the character of God, His law, and His sovereignty over the universe. R" How much power does it take to say no? No, don't rape me? But the human does anyway. Free will makes all parties become a level playing field.
Except some choose to become power hungry and use force over the other's free will. This explains why GOD limits the power of the Opposer. Otherwise no human could exercise free will freely. You confuse this theme, as the Opposer is a servant of the Lord. In a way all creatures are under God and under his infinite power. D" Maybe – in the future – only if you man up and finish a conversation before starting another R" than answer my questions using Bible verses. Don't beat around the bush as you usually do. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 12, 2024 19:52:30 GMT -5
Either your satan is so powerful that he can – oppose the character of God, His law, and His sovereignty over the universe. OR R" Absolutely not, so stop raising this issue, how on earth can a creature oppose a Creator? You really need to make up your mindBoth statements are contradictory – you cannot support both statements and remain honest. You really need to make up your mindYou cannot argue both positions at the same time with any honesty at allMan up – grow up – be consistent As long as you continue to argue for and against yourself – no one can possible take you seriously----------------------------------------------- From email Messanic today:- kingdom of darkness, - the Kingdom of Light We are delivered from haSatan through faith in Yeshua, Notice the Messanic email speak of the HaSatan as a personal Adversary. You deny it with every post Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities,(archon) You cannot dent the archon enough – you have done everything you can deny their true identity as the demonology of the OT JewsAll you can focus on is your hasatan god -------------------------------------------- R previous post" NO Dave. The Opposer is a provider of evil, whatever that agency concept means? Dave replies" Word game – creator / provider R" That is a silly remark Dave, the word "bara" meaning Creator You argue at length that bara means to engineer – if your satan god is not the provider /engineer of evil – who is?Man up – grow up – be consistent As long as you continue to argue for and against yourself – no one can possible take you seriously------------------------------------------ D"I agree – your Ellen White teaching is satanic error R" You don't have a problem with archon-princes ruling the earth, This is a true statement - the archon are the rulers of this world – the BEAST of REVELATIONyour only problem with me is the identification of the haSatan, as the chief archon prince who also sins and rules the world. Nope – “The satan” is ‘the satan’ ruler of this world – I agreeMy problem is your Catholic satan who is a self-made god of evil My problem is with your good angel rebelling against God’s Will My problem is the idea that God is not allowed to create a tov world My problem is your teaching that your satan change all of God’s Plan against God’s Will
My problem is your teaching that your satan god oppose the character of God, His law, and His sovereignty over the universe. OR R" Absolutely not, so stop raising this issue, how on earth can a creature oppose a Creator? You really need to make up your mindThere is nothing consistent about your teaching – it is all worthless double speak Unless you pick one god and one theology and stick with itYou have not a single shred of evidence that your satan is a good angel working for God You cannot deny 1Chr21:1+2Sam54:2 or 1Kings 22-------------------------------------------------------- Why God has a judgement court meeting when attending Job on the appointed days of the feast is beyond me. Yep – only you are confused – and you admit it – why doesn’t your teaching fit?-------------------------------------------------------- D"Either your satan is so powerful that he can – oppose the character of God, His law, and His sovereignty over the universe OR R" Absolutely not, so stop raising this issue, how on earth can a creature oppose a Creator? You really need to make up your mind R" What do you think missing means Dave? I guess you made up your mind –you support that a created being can opposes God’s right to rule His own creationSatan boy------------------------------------------ "The Jewish pseudepigraphal book of Enoch (8:1; 10:4) refers to Azazel as the name of a fallen angel (demon)." Sometimes even Jews record things nicely. The Hasatan refers to Azazel, and is a fallen angel, also termed a demon or SHAD. Yep – all created beings – never angles – all archon – all of the BEASThence the Opposer opposes God's salvation. – absolute nonsense – God can reach into the depths of hell and save anyone – your satan cannot stop God – the suggestion is blasphemy the Opposer opposes this salvation process – by keeping man sidetracked with worldR" Whose playing word games now? You are saying what I am saying Dave. Sure a sinner need only speak out and God will save him. No Opposer can stop this rescue. Agreed. Then stop teaching the ideaD"I agree the Opposer cannot oppose GodR" I agree too , not in terms not in any terms Then you agree that your satan CANNOT OPPOSE GODD"This passage is about a man - and men have /free will R" explain to me how a cherub / an anointed cherub is also about a man? Right after you explain how similes work You are as brave as a lion You are crazy like a fox Explain to me why these sentences are about a lion and a fox and have nothing to do with you?---------------------------------------- D"Why did it appear on the planet to Miller and the ‘bah’ at the exact same time in history? R" I would imagine the Hasatan planned it that So agree – same reason Joseph Smith and Charles Russell also introduced false Christianitys to the world ------------------------------------------------------------ D"Explain 1chr21:1 + 2Sam 24:1 Explain – 1 Kings 22 We have been all over this - so boring - can we please move on R" It is not boring if you answered my questions:- (1) God is all there is, infinity, everything else is finite and thus created. Do you agree God is absolute in all things? Absolute – way above your satan god(2) God created higher creatures with free will Nope – your only evidence = Ezk 28Rob" So ends our discussion already doesn't it Dave. Sure does – there is no such that as a good-guy angels that rebelled against God out of his own free willQuestion" How would we know angels have free will? your only evidence = Ezk 28Question" Does GOD force his creative powers upon His creation, or are the creatures of his creative powers able to respond to his loving? Angels are programed with (yester tov) Beast are programed with (yester ra) Man is programed with (yester ra) and has a spirit that knows (yester tov) Man is the only creature that can choose
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Post by rob on Jan 13, 2024 1:23:01 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
What is so contradictory?
An opposer is by definition, one who opposes the flow of God into their lives, hence opposing God.
And of course, a creature can never oppose God, for GOD is the absolute source of everything, including the right to exist and live. In fact all creatures live because God is living. So there is no such thing as being truly independent of God.
You need to write what is so contradictory, as I fail to understand you.
D" All you can focus on is your hasatan god R" Personally I focus on having faith in Jesus, you are the one who has no origin of sinning, all bad things are according to you designed by God, including tov and ra.
If the word "opposer" exists and "missing" exists in Scripture, than it is possible using free will, to oppose God and thus be missing His power flowing in your heart.
D"if your satan god is not the provider /engineer of evil – who is? R" I think you have trouble with reading Dave? This theme was over the words provider, and creator. You said a provider can be also a creator. I say this is a false idea. Now you raise the question of the Opposer being a provider. Of course the Opposer is a provider. The Bible says He wanted to be like the Most High, and the Most High is "ab" a provider.
D"Nope – “The satan” is ‘the satan’ ruler of this world – I agree R" have you back flipped? I thought your hasatan was a good angel being a prosecutor of human sins? So what is this idea of your hasatan being a ruler of this world, since when is a prosecutor a ruler over the earth?
D" why doesn’t your teaching fit? R" I was referring to your view, your view of a prosecuting satan does not fit the facts of the torah. Your view is confused.
1Chr21:1+2Sam54:2 or 1Kings 22 is about GOD allowing a provider of sin to come and rule over those who wish to sin.
You assume it means the Opposer is a servant of GOD. This a oxymoron of word meanings.
D"Right after you explain how similes work You are as brave as a lion You are crazy like a fox Explain to me why these sentences are about a lion and a fox and have nothing to do with you?
The sentences have everything to do with you. A simile makes a comparison, but is not the exact same thing as the thing is compares.
A lion is brave? Hmm? and the human is brave, as a lion is also brave.
A fox is crazy? Hmm? and the human is crazy, as the fox is also crazy.
Never do the similes mean they are equal. So the human is never a lion, but has some characteristics like the lion has. So the human is never a fox, but has some features of attitude the fox also has.
What is your problem Dave?
What happens if the poetry makes no simile, and just writes things about the other comparison?
For example" You are as brave as a lion. The lion fights against any creature without considering its own limitations".
Now do both sentences refer to the human as a simile? NO It may it may not? The second sentence is making a statement about the lion's brave attitude which may or may not be a comment about the bravery of the human.
Ho 9:13 Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, is planted in a pleasant place: but Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer.
This is saying Ephraim was planted in a pleasant place, as was Tyrus was also.
The second statement may or may not add to the first statement as a simile. Ephraim brought his children to the hareg murderer.
Question" Does Tyrus have a hareg murderer? One is obviously invited by Hosea to go and look for this simile.
But you refuse to go and look. You deny the Hosea text written by Yashua for readers to understand his salvation. The rescue has to be a rescue from someone? Who would that be?
According to Dave, nobody?
RPP"God created higher creatures with free will D" Nope – your only evidence = Ezk 28
You did not make a hypothesis that can be falsified, therefore your statement cannot be verified by science.
I will make a statement that can be falsified by investigating.
Free will according to the torah means to "reason over sin"
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet,
So if a creature can sin, it has free will.
D"your only evidence = Ezk 28 R" maybe? how much evidence do you need?
I gave you other evidence you ignored? Why did you ignore this evidence?
(1) birds choose to sing every morning (2) a leopard ate mum but did not eat baby (3) a wolf raised a baby rather than eat the human (4) angels eat food, chose to, also chose to make men blind, chose to warn Lot of Sodom (5) Angels show truth in torah, thus make inference, something a AI robot cannot do. (6) an angel is anointed, given special function within other angels. (7) angels are ministering spirits after Adam sinned, did GOD change their design after sin appeared, or are the angels using free will to love humans who fall?
You do not discuss Dave.
D" there is no such that as a good-guy angels that rebelled against God out of his own free will R" so the fallen angel in Eden never sinned first, while tempting Eve to sin. Jewish commentary say the serpent sinned to make lies with truth. So the serpent sinned first in Eden. You deny this idea.
You negate this idea saying some sins are not sins, designed that way, so the creature has no free will to sin. You remove the very definitions of free will and thus create a totally different torah.
D"Angels are programed with (yester tov) R" explain how a robot with programmed tov is able to make inference with RA in humans seeking to yada them?
Lot and Angels in Genesis ?
Robotic AI machines cannot make inference. Hence your angelic AI machines cannot make inference with RA as they have no ability to know both good and RA. Your arguments fail you.
D"Beast are programed with (yester ra) R" This assumes that GOD creates some creatures with RA. What does Lam 3:38 say? God does not do RA?
You are denying the torah and seeking a false Gnostic torah.
I can prove your idea is false.
Ge 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat:
All animals were herbivores, thus no trace of RA eating other animals in them.
D"Man is the only creature that can choose R" false
Alex the bird brain parrot made lots of choices and even threw tantrums. Even showed love to her owner. All this is studied extensively by science.
I tend to support the idea all animals have free will to praise their Creator, but this communion is removed from Adam since his sinning.
Especially animals of higher order.
I look forward to one day having an intelligent discussion with my dog, and the fruit trees I water.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 13, 2024 2:00:14 GMT -5
Either your satan is so powerful that he can – oppose the character of God, His law, and His sovereignty over the universe. OR R" Absolutely not, so stop raising this issue, how on earth can a creature oppose a Creator? You really need to make up your mind
Both statements are contradictory – you cannot support both statements and remain honest. You really need to make up your mind You cannot argue both positions at the same time with any honesty at all
What is so contradictory? Proof you are not bright enough or serious enough to have an honest discussion ----------------------------------------
D"Beast are programed with (yester ra) R" This assumes that GOD creates some creatures with RA. What does Lam 3:38 say? God does not do RA? You know exactly why your statement is error and you know it You deliberately missrepresent Jewish culture, Jewish teaching, and the Jewish faith
If you refuse to be serious here – I will not respond
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Post by rob on Jan 13, 2024 15:22:31 GMT -5
Greetings Dave D" Either your satan is so powerful that he can – oppose the character of God, His law, and His sovereignty over the universe.R" too many questions here Can a sinner oppose the character flow of God's love into his heart? Yes, that is why GOD created all higher order of creatures with free will. Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. Eze 18:21 ¶ But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. Notice GOD refers to the rasha, not just to humans (adam) as you claim. Ps 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand. Here the rasha are empowered actively by the Opposer,
Therefore the RASHA does not refer only to "Adam" creatures, but "cherub" creatures as well. This verse proves both the RASHA and the SATAN have free will to choose to SIN.
SO any creature that does RASHA is by definition OPPOSING God's character of love.
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Ps 34:21 Evil shall slay the wicked: RA kills the rasha, GOD does not have to do anything, just stop His own probation of living and RA will destroy the body all by itself.
What a fantastic verse find this is !!!!!!!!!!
If GOD made a creature with RA in it, it would die of itself.
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Ps 10:4 The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.
So the rasha oppose the character of GOD.
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Can a sinner oppose GOD's law? Yes, by not using faith. In Romans 14 Paul says anything that is not of faith is missing. Psalm 119 says the LAW is eternal and based on faith. So the rasha can use the free will to not speak faith, and thus they use their own powers of self to be missing God's powers in their own lives.
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Can a sinner oppose God's sovereignty over the universe?
How can a creature overpower a Creator? Not possible. The Opposer is kept alive by GOD, and even the powers to rebel are powers misapplied by the sinning creature. God limits the sinning creature so his sinning does not spoil others too much, lest nothing is allowed to live. God is always in control and the only infinite one.
D" Proof you are not bright enough or serious enough to have an honest discussionR" If you were honest you would not paste contradictory phrases into one question, misleading and deceiving others? You do not read my sentences do you, otherwise you would learn and make your questions l ess contradictory . Now these answers above prove GOD cannot create using RA, because RA is a power that kills all by itself. Yet another verse to prove your RA creatures could not live. Ps 34 D" You know exactly why your statement is error and you know it You deliberately missrepresent Jewish culture, Jewish teaching, and the Jewish faith
If you refuse to be serious here – I will not respondR" Why is it you have never looked up all the verses with RA in it? and discovered how foolish your idea is? Try Ps 34 Ps 34:21 Evil shall slay the wicked:RA muwth rasha. That is some statement. The RA kills the rasha. So how can GOD create a creature with RA in it? It would die all by itself. Evolution speaks of mutations as examples of RA, and these tens of thousands of RA letter mistakes eventually cause the cell to die. How many more verses would speak against your theory if you looked up all the verses speaking of RA? SHalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 14, 2024 1:11:36 GMT -5
D"Either your satan is so powerful that he can – oppose the character of God, His law, and His sovereignty over the universe. R" too many questions here
It is your teaching here for four years –now you pretend ignorance
Can a sinner oppose the character flow of God's love into his heart? Yes, Absolutely NOT – not even close – not a chance – impossible – no matter how you twist it Paul set out in the morning to kill Christians God had a little face to face with him - (something you deny) Then Paul became the biggest Apostle in Christian history ---------------
If GOD made a creature with RA in it, it would die of itself. Perfect discretion of man --------------------
Can a sinner oppose God's sovereignty over the universe? How can a creature overpower a Creator? Not possible.
So you reject Ellen White and all her two god controversy? Yes – or - nor You cannot teach both versions of theology at the same time ---------------------
D"You know exactly why your statement is error and you know it You deliberately missrepresent Jewish culture, Jewish teaching, and the Jewish faith If you refuse to be serious here – I will not respond R" Why is it you have never looked up all the verses with RA in it? and discovered how foolish your idea is?
Exactly my point – You know exactly why your statement is error and you know it Exactly my point – you deliberately misrepresent Judaism Exactly my point – you deliberately try to twist Jewish theology into error Exactly my point – you deliberately deny Jewish theology and demonology
Jesus was a Jew, His disciples were Jewish, His followers were Jewish, everyone present at the Temple for the day of Pentecost were Jewish – Christianity is a Pentecostal Messianic Jewish Movement.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Jewish theology is truth Christianity = the truth + Jesus as the Messiah
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Post by rob on Jan 18, 2024 16:10:57 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
-------Sin----
RobPP"Can a sinner oppose the character flow of God's love into his heart? Yes,
Dave" Absolutely NOT – not even close – not a chance – impossible – no matter how you twist it
Paul set out in the morning to kill Christians
God had a little face to face with him - (something you deny)
Then Paul became the biggest Apostle in Christian history
Rob" Your statement is weird, opposing the character of GOD flowing into your heart is defined as missing, ie sin.
Paul did this before his conversion, as you say, and hence opposed this character flow, and later met Jesus as you say, and changed his views.
Changing his views, did not mean Paul became totally sinless after that, not was Paul not capable or breaking faith, or missing that character flow of God into his heart.
Ro 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
One reasons with free will based on who we are, ie flesh, hence our reason powers are influenced by the carnal mind.
Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
But when the presence of GOD dwells in you, you can speak words of God and thus by faith, have the character flow of God flowing in your daily, but this only happens as long as you daily resist the carnal mind and ask in prayer for the daily presence of God via faith.
Ro 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. It is true no personal Being, can make us sin, for all power flows from GOD to overcome missing, but we still have to ask, and God never forces the will, nor overpowers the will, so you have to walk in the Spirit, willingly, not breaking faith. Ro 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. Paul is talking here about the daily fight of faith, with our reason powers subject to the carnal nature, we have a daily fight of faith to do. And hence we can often break faith and sin. Ac 15:39 And the contention was so sharp between them, Here is a good example of Paul breaking faith, and not asking for God to control his words. Hence missing occurred here. -----RA------- ROBPP" If GOD made a creature with RA in it, it would die of itself.
Dave"Perfect discretion of man
Rob corrects spelling "perfect description of man"
"ROB" You fail to understand Dave, any creature with RA in it would not live nor be able to live for any length of time. If you agree with me that RA causes the death of a creature, than GOD intentionally making a creature with RA in it, makes GOD a Creative Murderer.
You really need to change your whole religion's views, because your logic makes no sense. God does not do RA, nor does GOD have RA in his creatures, all creatures were herbivores in Creation, another verse you failed to notice.
If you look up all the verses with RA in it, you will find, RA is a fruit of SIN. and hence got nothing to do with Creation. You have never considered that God does RA abnormally because of SIN. Not because of Creation.
D"You cannot teach both versions of theology at the same time R" You seem to think a creature cannot opposer a character flow of God into his/her life? That process is called missing, or chata, or humans term sin. Balaam had an encounter with GOD, like Paul met Jesus-YHWH face to face, via the messenger angel, and yes did did a positive influence on his reasoning powers of free will, to bless Israel. But several chapters later left to Balaam's free will, he told humans how to seduce Israel to sin, and thus became a wicked man once more, despite the personal encounter with God. So your "face to face" thing with GOD, does not guarantee you live from that day forward with a changed perception. D"Exactly my point – you deliberately misrepresent Judaism Exactly my point – you deliberately try to twist Jewish theology into error
R" Scripture describes Jewish interpretations of the torah as follows
Isa 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
Jesus said the same thing
Mt 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
You lay claim to follow and support the Jewish theology. I doubt you support Jewish theology . That would require you keeping all 613 commandments, and the hundreds of Jewish rules of all sorts of living.
One of the reasons Jesus was killed as a Rabbi was because he did not follow all the Jewish rules of living. Especially Sabbath rules.
Jesus was a torah supporter, and there is a difference between a Jewish supporter and a torah supporter. They should be the same but they are not.
Ro 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. Paul describes the Jewish theology as above, "not according to knowledge" "not surrendering to God" "establishing their own righteousness" "doing things in human strength" Christian is a torah supporting process based on faith. Sadly most churches do not understand what faith is. Faith is not mental assent. D"Jewish theology is truth R" Why arn't you supporting Rabbi Cahn than, like I do? You called most of His videos BS? He is a Messanic Jew. He supports trinity with plurality of three infinity sets of infinity He supports Satan as a fallen angel who sins. You reject these teachings of Rabbi Cahn. I get your understanding though, one can preach truth but also have some error in his preaching. How do we know if we have all the truth? It depends upon your reading of the torah. I showed you verses and you say I disagree with the Jewish theology, whatever that means. I mean no disrespect of people and their culture, but you cannot tell me you support Jewish people and Jewish culture? I study the torah and the torah alone, without culture and without people influence. Jesus never went to Jewish schools as a youth, he read the torah alone and studied the torah with GOD as His tutor. I do the same. You can have your Lilith, your Kabbalah and your hundreds of Jewish rules with respect to culture. If the people of Jewish culture are not allowed to have differences in their understanding of the torah, what do we have ? A cult? There are over a dozen splitter groups of SDA peoples, all with weird differences in thinking of certain verses. The mainstream is a "mish mash" of too many weird people with weird understanding of Bible verses. We all live in confusion, and your forum is true, we ponder confusion. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 19, 2024 1:55:53 GMT -5
RobPP"Can a sinner oppose the character flow of God's love into his heart? Yes, Dave" Absolutely NOT – not even close – not a chance – impossible – no matter how you twist it Rob" Your statement is weird, opposing the character of GOD flowing into your heart is defined as missing, ie sin.
Sin = a transgression of God’s Commandments Man can choose to sin – and walk away from God – God’s love is still there – still available – still unrequited
Paul did this before his conversion, as you say, and hence opposed this character flow, and later met Jesus as you say, and changed his views. Could Paul oppose God’s Will – God’s Plan for Paul – Absolutely Not Thank you for making my point!
RobPP"Can a sinner oppose the flow of God's love into his heart? - NO ---------------------------------------------
One reasons with free will based on who we are, ie flesh, hence our reason powers are influenced by the carnal mind. Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. This is Jewish (yester ra) + (yester tov) You cannot deny it enough – now you want to suggest it Please be consistent – otherwise your words mean nothing – just talk -----------------------------------------------
But when the presence of GOD dwells in you You deny the spirit and the spiritual – call it satanic – now you suggest it Please be consistent – otherwise your words mean nothing – just talk -------------------------------------------------
Ro 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. Paul is talking here about the daily fight of faith, Paul here is talking about the struggle between (yester ra) and (yester tov) You cannot deny it enough – now you want to suggest it Please be consistent – otherwise your words mean nothing – just talk
-----RA-------
ROBPP" If GOD made a creature with RA in it, it would die of itself. "ROB" You fail to understand Dave, any creature with RA in it would not live nor be able to live for any length of time.
Yet – you praise your god of ra every post = your god of evil is responsible for everything – your god of evil is the center piece of all your theology
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Post by rob on Jan 19, 2024 15:53:35 GMT -5
Greetings Dave Dave you do not discuss or even know how to discuss, you just post your stuff and ignore my stuff. You create confusion doing this and I am tired of you playing brevity games. D" Sin = a transgression of God’s Commandments Man can choose to sin – and walk away from God – God’s love is still there – still available – still unrequited R" explain How can a man sin and walk away from God, yet not oppose God in walking away from God? So God's love is still there? So? the problem is the human walks away from God? Is this not opposing God's love? You play word games Dave/ D" Could Paul oppose God’s Will – God’s Plan for Paul – Absolutely Not Thank you for making my point!R" Are you saying God chose Paul and Paul had no choice? Paul could have walked away from God, but didn't because Paul was supporting God so he thought... but was wrong, he was actually supporting Satan, the wrong strong authority.If there is no Satan as a ruler over Paul, how come Paul changed to a different ruler over him?
Such a conversion proves Paul had a different authority ruling over his heart?
RobPP" Can a sinner oppose the flow of God's love into his heart? - Dave" NOR" Really big discussion Dave. You said a man can sin and walk away from God, explain how walking away from God is not actually opposing the flow of God into the human? I suggest you watch the Einstein video again, because you have not listened to it. RA does not exist, it is simply a term invented by man to coin when humans walk away from the love of God flowing into their heart. ------------------ D" This is Jewish (yester ra) + (yester tov) You cannot deny it enough – now you want to suggest it Please be consistent – otherwise your words mean nothing – just talkR" I discuss. You don't. What is there to discuss here? when you present nothing? Are you saying yester ra is the flesh of the tongue speaking, and yester tov is the Spirit that man wishes to have dwell in the tongue? So the man praises God instead of cursing God Must I guess what you are saying? Why is our flesh weakening our reason abilities?
(1) epi-genetic propensities to sin, become habits to sin, so our flesh is wired to do habits.... (2) the Opposer rules in our minds tempting us to miss God's powers (3) Our flesh has corruption and mutations, so cannot function strongly or properly as God designed. (4) some of the corruptions are intentionally done by the Opposer so the sinning is easier to do. If the mind chooses to do yester Tov, this proves your GOD does not do both RA and Tov. S o you just admitted the GOD you serve only does TOV. You are not consistent and you play word games. D" But when the presence of GOD dwells in you You deny the spirit and the spiritual – call it satanic – now you suggest it R" Shows how little you know the torah Dave. Of course the presence of God dwells in you when you ask, that is faith, what has spiritual got to do with this? Ga 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. The term " medium" here tells the human that when you have a medium empowering you with the presence of God and you walk in that presence of GOD, with GOD, than you literally have the presence of GOD, though it is only a medium presentation.How do I explain this using the torah? Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.When you hear GOD speak to you, it is the same as you seeing God in personal form in your literal presence. When you talk to somebody over the phone, it is the same as the person standing before you and you seeing the person. Weird, but that is the torah. Only Doubting Thomas failed to grasp this verse, felt a little left out and jealous of other disciples who saw Jesus.
Regarding your spark idea:-
Job 18:5 ¶ Yea, the light of the wicked shall be put out, and the spark of his fire shall not shine. There is this verse Isa 1:31 And the strong shall be as tow, and the maker of it as a spark, and they shall both burn together, and none shall quench them. And this? The word "spark" in Job is only used here. So I would not suggest you make this into some "spark" that is a part of our "fire", as Jews claim. D" Paul here is talking about the struggle between (yester ra) and (yester tov) You cannot deny it enough – now you want to suggest itR" Paul is not suggesting RA and TOV, but about faith reasoning. Ps 119:86 All thy commandments are faithful:This tells me you must speak the ten words and allow the words to empower your living. But humans do not speak, they do what their minds wish to do, walk away from God rather than speaking words that come with love flow. You are suggesting negating faith is a yester RA reason, is wrong. If you neglect to speak His words, you are not doing yester ra. However I do see some points you raise. 1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. 6 ¶ But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. RA is mentioned only a little here, RA surmisings. Paul says to Timothy, stay away from proud humans. 1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, Notice RA is mentioned as an attitude and so is faith, 1Ti 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. 12 Fight the good fight of faith, Paul lists TOV fruits and says to fight the good fight of faith. Pride is the power that opposes Faith and prevents the reason powers... we assume doing missings is fun.... Ho 13:2 And now they sin more and more, and have made them molten images of their silver, and idols according to their own understanding, all of it the work of the craftsmen: they say of them, Let the men that sacrifice kiss the calves. We are not to sin more and more... Ho 13:6 According to their pasture, so were they filled; they were filled, and their heart was exalted; therefore have they forgotten me. The reason mind fails to fight faith, because when we are happy, filled by God and all things are fantastic, we becomes exalted in pride and forget God and thus do missing, missing faith. What causes this filling and thus selfishness? Because we fail to give away our blessings? I have noticed if you fail to pick tomatoes of a tomato bush, it fails to make more fruit and than begins to die. This process has nothing to do with RA or some embedded RA within us, it is simply an attitude that fails to have gratitude. Lu 7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. Jesus speaks of this principle here. It explains why some of us fail to speak faith daily and often. D" Yet – you praise your god of ra every post = your god of evil is responsible for everything – your god of evil is the center piece of all your theology R" Before I met you, wee SDA do not speak of the Opposer much, nor have anything to do with him. I see the Saviour and learn of his principles, not learn of the enemy as you suggest. I do not care for Archons as my enemies, I only seek the seeker, the Son of Righteousness with healing in His wings. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 19, 2024 23:00:39 GMT -5
Dave you do not discuss or even know how to discuss, you just post your stuff and ignore my stuff. You create confusion doing this and I am tired of you playing brevity games. I have presented the exact same theology to you consistently for four years – if you do not know my view – you have not paid any attention at all Your inability to understand the English language – is not my fault
How can a man sin and walk away from God, yet not oppose God in walking away from God? No one can oppose God – the entire teaching is rejected Least of all – man able to oppose god – rediculas
If man walks always from God – man is committing spiritual suicide – a free will gift from God If this is your choice – God will not stop you – He gave you the Free Will choice ----------------------------------
D"Could Paul oppose God’s Will – God’s Plan for Paul – Absolutely Not Thank you for making my point! R" Are you saying God chose Paul and Paul had no choice?
Correct – if God chooses you – you cannot refuse – ask Moses – ask Noah – ask Job
Paul could have walked away from God, but didn't because Paul was supporting God so he thought... but was wrong, Yep – once Paul 'gnosis' the truth – it completely changed him ------------------
D"This is Jewish (yester ra) + (yester tov) You cannot deny it enough – now you want to suggest it Please be consistent – otherwise your words mean nothing – just talk
R" I discuss. You don't. What is there to discuss here? when you present nothing?
Are you saying yester ra is the flesh of the tongue speaking, and yester tov is the Spirit that man wishes to have dwell in the tongue? So the man praises God instead of cursing God
Must I guess what you are saying?
Wow – you know the teaching after all – so all your complaining was just noise (yester ra) is of the flesh – (yester tov/) is of the spirit ---------------------------------------
D"But when the presence of GOD dwells in you You deny the spirit and the spiritual – call it satanic – now you suggest it
R" Shows how little you know the torah Dave. Of course the presence of God dwells in you when you ask, that is faith, what has spiritual got to do with this?
Remember this Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: You absolutely deny the spirit – man has no spirit – man is just the HS
The term "medium" here tells the human that when you have a medium empowering you with the presence of God and you walk in that presence of GOD, with GOD, than you literally have the presence of GOD, though it is only a medium presentation.
Correction - You absolutely deny the spirit – man has no spirit – man is just the HS – which is just a medium – the presence of God (Spirit) – but you cannot call it Spirit ---------------------------
D"Paul here is talking about the struggle between (yester ra) and (yester tov) You cannot deny it enough – now you want to suggest it
R" Paul is not suggesting RA and TOV, but about faith reasoning. Yep – exactly what I said - D"Paul here is talking about the struggle between (yester ra) and (yester tov) You cannot deny it enough – now you want to suggest it[/b] -----------------------------------------------
D"Yet – you praise your god of ra every post = your god of evil is responsible for everything – your god of evil is the center piece of all your theology R" Before I met you, wee SDA do not speak of the Opposer much, nor have anything to do with him. I see the Saviour and learn of his principles, not learn of the enemy as you suggest. I do not care for Archons as my enemies, I only seek the seeker, the Son of Righteousness with healing in His wings. D"Yet – you praise your god of ra every post = your god of evil is responsible for everything – your god of evil is the center piece of all your theology
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Post by rob on Jan 20, 2024 2:24:33 GMT -5
greetings Dave You speak riddles about sin... The word means missing. Hence you are missing God's power flowing in your life. Perhaps as you say correctly, not missing the entire flow of love from GOD, otherwise you would cease to exist. But enough is missing to cause you to experience RA as a result of your missing, SOME of the flow of LOVE into your life. The Hebrew word to describe this relationship about this missing or partial missing of God's love flowing into your life, is the Hebrew word STN, meaning to oppose or to be an Opposer. These relational words exist in the Bible for a reason. Now do you agree to the way I worded my words?ROBPP" R" Are you saying God chose Paul and Paul had no choice?D" Correct – if God chooses you – you cannot refuse – ask Moses – ask Noah – ask JobRob" now your God is a dictator, a controller and offers the free will to choose no choice. Care to explain this answer of yours. D "Yep – once Paul 'gnosis' the truth – it completely changed himR" so you are saying once a person knows GOD fully and has an encounter with GOD fully, they become a totally observant support of GOD. This idea of yours is bogus. The free will has to overcome "aven" propensities of pride and habitual sins, that enslave the sinner to sin. Also the torah say many have their conscience seared like a hot iron, so have no ability to choose God even if they wanted to. It's sort of too late. What you are posing is upon the big day of judgement when GOD shows all humans his great sacrifice for sins, and the love for sinning humans, that all humans will freely choose God and thus all humans are saved, including hitler and stalin.
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D" Wow – you know the teaching after all – so all your complaining was just noiseR" I read from Jews that overcoming the yester ra is never achieved, that it is impossible to absolve the power of yester ra in a human. This idea is bogus and thus destroys the whole concept of yester ra to begin with. 1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:If you have Jesus fully completed in you you do not sin by definition. 1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning The SHAD sinneth from the beginning of Creation, long before a human sinned. Something you ignore in the torah. 1Jo 3:8 For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Jesus came to stop humans from sinning, something that the SHAD claims is impossible to achieve.Hence the reason why the Opposer challenged God about Job being "tam". The 144,000 in the end of time are similes of JOB, to prove to the Opposer that not only did Job not sin, but many thousands of others will also have no guile in their mouths. This is not about overcoming the evil inclination, as if God planted it in the human by inherited creation. NO The SIN recorded as habits by the genetic aven, it to be completely removed by GOD. little by little/ Ex 23:30 By little and little I will drive them out from before thee, until thou be increased, and inherit the land. I consider the "archon princes" as "weeds in your life", better suits the poetry of the "saint as a tree". Weeds slowly destroy the life of the tree in subtle ways.
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D" You absolutely deny the spirit – man has no spirit – man is just the HSR" I have never said that the human is just the HS. You misquote me. We are empowered by the breath of the Father, administrated by the Shadday and carried as a love flow into humans through the medium, as the breath of life. This is the full torah message, explaining this at a subatomic level is a mystery beyond me. D" Correction - You absolutely deny the spirit – man has no spirit – man is just the HS – which is just a medium – the presence of God (Spirit) – but you cannot call it SpiritR" Yes, and I do not call it "spirit", I term it the " character development of the Father" inside the supporter of God via the medium via Faith in the Saviour. Only God has immortality the torah says, so GOD is not able to impart a spark spirit as a gift to man, making man have immortality already. I read the Bible as the Bible reads. You have not supplied a single verse backing up your claims. D"D" Yet – you praise your god of ra every post = your god of evil is responsible for everything – your god of evil is the center piece of all your theologyR" not so. Have a wander through Spiritual Springs. org and see how many times I speak of Satan? spiritualsprings.org/ss-1008.htmMapped index to over 1200 webpages. The number is the webpage listed by number. 35 - Jesus buys us from slavery to Satan 133 - Has Satan encouraged corruption in our Bible? 196 - Adversary or Satan , symbols of bad 197 - God allows Satan to afflict Job 205 - Doing bad things is fun? so Satan suggests 517 - The Lord rebukes Satan 711 - Satan is wicked-immoral 790 - Satan, bad things, Job 954 - Two Father's : Satan and GOD End of 1200 webpages. Total mentions of Satan : 9 Really Dave, you need to place things in their proper context. You have this idea that your Hebrew word for contexts with GOD in heaven, refer to some good angel doing a bad job, like prosecuting humans for their sins. If you think about this function as you claim, it is impossible for angels to record sins for GOD. There are 9,000,000,000 humans on the planet right now and lets say they sin about 1000 times per day, breaking faith in God is a sin, let alone transgressing his ten words. That is 9,000,000,000,000 sins to record daily. Is this possible by a single angel? No, it is not possible. There is only 86,400 seconds in a single yom day of time. so the angel needs to record 104 million sins per second. And this assumes the only sins a humans does with his hands, mouth and feet. What about missing in the mind, which angels cannot see or read? So do you apply logic to your theology? Obviously not. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 20, 2024 3:44:49 GMT -5
ROBPP" R" Are you saying God chose Paul and Paul had no choice? D" Correct – if God chooses you – you cannot refuse – ask Moses – ask Noah – ask Job Rob" now your God is a dictator, a controller and offers the free will to choose no choice. Care to explain this answer of yours. Ask Jonah if you can refuse God D" Correct – if God chooses you – you cannot refuse-------------------------------------------------------- D"Yep – once Paul 'gnosis' the truth – it completely changed him R" so you are saying once a person knows GOD fully and has an encounter with GOD fully, they become a totally observant support of GOD. No – I said - once Paul 'gnosis' the truth – it completely changed him Once God touches you – once the Spirit touches you – you gnosis the truth - it changes youThis idea of yours is bogus. The free will has to overcome "aven" propensities of pride and habitual sins, that enslave the sinner to sin. Impossible – man cannot become sinless by his own efforts What you are posing is upon the big day of judgement when GOD shows all humans his great sacrifice for sins, and the love for sinning humans, that all humans will freely choose God and thus all humans are saved, including hitler and stalin. Yes – I believe in a God of Love – Will everyone be saved in the end – no – maybe – I doubt it Will many be rescued from the grave – from proportional punishment – yes 1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. -------------------------------------- R" I read from Jews that overcoming the yester ra is never achieved, that it is impossible to absolve the power of yester ra in a human. This idea is bogus and thus destroys the whole concept of yester ra to begin with. As long as you are in a body of biology / flesh – you are hampered by (yester ra) – correct -------------------------------------------- 1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: If you have Jesus fully completed in you you do not sin by definition. How can Ellen White commit a sin while laying passed out on the floor?---------------------------------------------- 1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning Yep – sinned against the entirety in Gen 1:2 A crime of ignorance – choshek Not a transgression of a law - sinThe SHAD sinneth from the beginning of Creation, long before a human sinned. Something you ignore in the torah. Sin entered the world through one human being – Rom 5:121Jo 3:8 For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Jesus came to stop humans from sinning, something that the SHAD claims is impossible to achieve. Yes – Jesus came to redeem us from the world - correct------------------------------------------------- I consider the "archon princes" as "weeds in your life", better suits the poetry of the "saint as a tree". Weeds slowly destroy the life of the tree in subtle ways. This is my view – a Jewish view Wow – you have changed your teaching – changed your entire theology – or you are just lying What about your Ezk 28 self- made god of evil – that wants to steal your soul for his ow kingdom?------------------------------------------------ D"You absolutely deny the spirit – man has no spirit – man is just the HS R" I have never said that the human is just the HS. You misquote me. We are empowered by the breath of the Father, administrated by the Shadday and carried as a love flow into humans through the medium, as the breath of life. Correct – you teach man has no spirit – we are just the flesh driven around by the HS----------------------------------------------- D"Correction - You absolutely deny the spirit – man has no spirit – man is just the HS – which is just a medium – the presence of God (Spirit) – but you cannot call it Spirit R" Yes, and I do not call it "spirit" And because you deny the spirit ½ of scripture becomes a mystery for you ----------------------------------------------- Only God has immortality the torah says, There is absolutely nothing mortal about god - so GOD is not able to impart a spark spirit as a gift to man, You deny that God can create angels – and man Man to you is just some Darwin biology ------------------------------------------------ Either your satan is so powerful that he can – oppose the character of God, His law, and His sovereignty over the universe. ORR" Absolutely not, so stop raising this issue, how on earth can a creature oppose a Creator?You really need to make up your mindBoth statements are contradictory – you cannot support both statements and remain honest. You really need to make up your mind You cannot argue both positions at the same time with any honesty at all
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Post by rob on Jan 20, 2024 15:28:37 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
You just posted Jews do have a Satan after all designed and created by GOD to oppose Man and give man free will to choose.
But I notice in your second post, you go back to your old ideas and old views of theology still claiming you support Jewish ideas? Clearly you don't.
You still have some eternal spark spirit given to man, thus making man immortal, but somehow this immortality can be removed upon the second death, but not upon the first death. A weird theory you have never explained.
You still consider the evil inclination of yester ra lives very much alive in you right up until Jesus comes in the clouds to rescue you, hence you are rescued by Jesus as still a sinning human with both yester tov and yester ra. I pity your fables and precepts of men and your bogus traditions.
You ignore yet more Scripture, because it raises the bar of perfection before Christ to something only Jesus yoked to you can achieve. You have no understanding of child like faith, and consider gnosis knowledge is all that is required to be saved. Faith is a relational and active process, not some mental assent where you do nothing with the love of God's love into your life. I wish you well with your theories, and hope they work out for you.
You understanding of free will is wrong. You assume once called and once saved, your will will never let go of God, thus the mind is fixed upon Christ forever and thus you never sin or are found missing of His powers? It seems once you gnosis your mind is fully made up and thus completely fixed on Jesus. What a pile of BS. Suppose Jesus one day offers me public miracle of His grace, that others see and marvel at my faith in His Name. Such a flow of His power will change me for sure, and others will take notice for sure, but what will happen the next day? There is the problem of meekness (keeping your focus upon Jesus) to deal with and humility (remaining teachable and looking out for others) to achieve, and the problem of presumption (the sin of assuming you can ask for power flows in a public sense all the time).
You posted many from different churches who do public miracles in the Name. My question is who's Name? If you truly Gnosis, it is that easy to continue fighting the good fight of faith?
Than there is what I call the believers curse, caused by his own selfishness.
Ho 13:6 According to their pasture, so were they filled; they were filled, and their heart was exalted; therefore have they forgotten me.
This process happens when you are connected to God. You forget His powers and take them for granted. Are there any Jewish commentaries on this verse?
Anyhow you enjoy your day, I have to go to work today for another week. Take your time in answering some things.
With my old wired mouse and Ubuntu Operating System, the system seems stable and working fine. I use Text Editor to write simple text to you. I look forward to saving money, no more viruses can attack my machine.
They dumped again some pestilence out the planes 2 days ago and I got COVID flu, really bad head ache and running nose, getting over it though, I used a Bible promise from God:
Ho 6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
I love this Bible promise, by saying the words, and supporting the expected power power, today is the third day, the flu will be broken. Great is His faithfulness.
I noticed a few days before this, that by sinning God with draws his hedge around you and you fall into sicknesses. If understanding free will and choosing to speak his word is so easy to achieve, why do I fail sometimes?
Mt 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
I use this Bible promise of faith, but at times it is an excuse.
Perhaps due to temptations by the Opposer, we come to see sinning we used to know as our old friends of fun. What is fun about sinning in the mind?
When you eat a chocolate laced icecream, the first second is exhilarating. The second second less exciting and the third second your taste buds are overloaded and so the rest of the 15 minutes is a sinful indulgence. There is nothing fun about missing, it's a distraction of power from God. And such pleasures of the world do not last nor do they satisfy.
Notice the temptations of the Opposer upon Jesus, to get him to sin. First was appetite, the sin that caused man to fall. The vagus nerve links the mind to the stomach, so this sin is easiest to achieve. Food can be constructed to me very stimulating and thus sinful. Sugar and fat for example.
The second temptation concerned the faithful speaking of Bible verses, say the words and God will protect you and you will not fall. Presumption. We are not to test God, by using His powers for personal pleasure.
The third temptation was about taking short cuts in life, worship the SHAD and all the powers of life come easily to you, no more worries. No wonder humans do sinning just to live in peace. Living in faith guarantees a life of tribulation because the Opposer hates humans choosing God.
I remember reading a Jewish account when yester ra comes to you, go and sin in private rather than public making your sinning worse in others. This is not from the torah, for GOD sees your sins all the time and you can't hide.
When you speak faith in Jesus and thus have his power flow through you, you are not sinning by definition. The trick is to be speaking faith continually.
Often in the presence of others I speak using my own human powers, rather than asking GOD what do you want me to say to them now?
SO many things from Jews make no sense in the Christian walk with GOD, and thus many themes are found wanting. You enjoy your day Dave, I hope things are better for you, than for me. My wife thinks I need to take the Monday off from work, the flue is still croaky. And coughing.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 20, 2024 18:06:36 GMT -5
You just posted Jews do have a Satan after all designed and created by GOD to oppose Man and give man free will to choose. Let me clarify – since you having trouble understanding English 1- The Beast of Revelation – the dragon – the serpent – that we call devils and satanas – Are created by God, for God - Col 1:16, John 1:3, Rev 4:11, Isa 45:5-7 2- Yes – they oppose man – and all creation 3- They do not give man Free Will – that gift is from God 4- but they do tempt your Free Will choice to “NOT BE FOCUSED UPON GOD” 5- they do this by keeping man focused upon the world – Gen 3:14-24 / Deut 30:15-18 6- All God’s Will – all god’s Plan
But I notice in your second post, you go back to your old ideas and old views of theology still claiming you support Jewish ideas? Clearly you don't. Yes – all this is basic ‘Hasidic Chabad Judaism’ – and I support it all --------------------------------------------------------
You still have some eternal spark spirit given to man, thus making man immortal, but somehow this immortality can be removed upon the second death, but not upon the first death. A weird theory you have never explained.
After four years – you still just misrepresent the facts – so you can mock them After four yours – you still deliberately choose to misrepresent Christianity After four years – you still cannot tell the difference between the words eternal and immortal
Your claim that God cannot created spiritual angels – is rejected Your claim that God cannot create spiritual beings – is rejected You claim that man has no spirit – is rejected ------------------------------------------------------------------------
You understanding of free will is wrong. Free Will is the choice between (yester ra) and (yester tov) Free Will is the choice between (world) and (God)
You assume once called and once saved, your will never let go of God Be honest – there are 3 types of Christians – the lost and the believer – do NOT have EXPERIENCIAL GNOSIS over times – beliefs can change – wane – become lost and forgotten – agree Faith for them = holding their conviction till the very end
The spiritual Christian – has had an EXPERIENCIAL GNOSIS Paul was transported into heaven – in the body or in the spirit even he isn’t sure Ellen White passed out on the floor – stopped breathing Some babble in tongues Some fall to the floor in tears Some burst out in laughter Some may have a more private experience – but all of it is a spiritual encounter You assume once called and once saved, your will never let go of God, thus the mind is fixed upon Christ forever and thus you never sin or are found missing of His powers? Once you have has your Baptism – you will never again deny the truth or the spiritual reality
mind is fixed upon Christ forever – Sorry – hunger and thirst keep getting in the way of perpetual meditation
thus you never sin or are found missing of His powers Rom 7 – Paul described his experience more of – regret he is still a body of flesh
It seems once you gnosis your mind is fully made up and thus completely fixed on Jesus. Once you have has your Baptism – you will never again deny the truth or the spiritual reality
thus completely fixed on Jesus. Each story of people’s conversion – a Muslim meeting Christ – a near death experience – Baptism of the Holy Spirit – usually ends in being completely humbled and living the rest of your life in a quite humbled spiritual way. -------------------------------------
Mt 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. Yep – (flesh)+(spirit) – you deny it but then suggest it Where is your credibility – you deny the spirit – no such thing as man’s spirit -------------------------------------
Notice the temptations of the Opposer upon Jesus, to get him to sin. First was appetite, - (yester ra) The second temptation Presumption. – (yester ra) We are not to test God, - proof Christ is God The third temptation worship the SHAD = hedonism = (yester ra)
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Post by rob on Jan 21, 2024 16:36:35 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
So God created sinning creatures to tempt humans to sin, and exercise free will to thus walk away from God?
God would never create "ra creatures" on purpose for such a "ra function" to make man sin, and stop focusing on God.
You are so wrong. God would not create "sin" or "ra". These things come out of the perfect creation, because the creature chooses to "sin" and do "ra".
Why can't you understand this?
D"Yes – all this is basic ‘Hasidic Chabad Judaism’
R" show me a link to this kind of Jewish thinking?
SHalom
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