NT satanas -vrs- OT Hebrew satan

[rob]

Greetings Dave

This is 2024

If you wish to raise a idea, present it according to the rules of debate

You are allowed 3 posts to

(1) present your idea
(2) allow me to refute your idea or agree to points raised
(3) reply of discuss my discussion without raising new ideas
(4) allow me to reply or discuss your discussion
(5) you raise final remarks
(6) I rise final remarks

(7) we either agree to disagree or make a conviction. One idea must override the other.

Or the confusion raises another idea to discuss because the first is presented upon assumed assumptions.

My problem with you is you write brevity, never discuss and do not reply to my replies


Hypothesis" Is heavenly elohiym showing plurality?

Dave's Hypothesis" The heavenly elohiym never shows plurality.

You confuse the issue with your three expressions of the one Most High. What does this expressions idea mean? If you have one expression walking on earth and the other expression sitting in heaven, you have two beings, separated by space and time and both talk and think independently of the other? Can you present clearly your view? As a first speaker?

You write "three expressions" without making details of what this logic implies?

How can you have a expression outside of the Most High, talking to the Most High in prayer? etc, etc. Raised this before but go no answer from Dave?

Also make your ideas fit Romans 1:20, they must fit with God's creations, hence the model fits what creation shows?

Shalom

[Dave]

If you wish to raise a idea, present it according to the rules of debate
This forum is not a debate – it is a Bible Study - a study of Scripture – an exploration of the original Pentecostal Messianic Judaism given to mankind by Jesus and His Gospel

(1) present your idea
Prove to us your Ezk 28 Catholic self-made satan god of evil
Please go through each line of scripture and demonstrate how it validates your satan god rebelled, hates, and opposes Gods right to rule the universe

(2) allow me to refute your idea or agree to points raised
Instead on taking the challenge head on – you post other people views to attack me

(3) reply of discuss my discussion without raising new ideas
Just how many times must I beg you to validate your self-made satan god of evil

(4) allow me to reply or discuss your discussion
All you have as an rebuttal = your assumption = if anyone opposes man then he opposes God

(5) you raise final remarks
Same results
(6) I rise final remarks
Same results
(7) we either agree to disagree or make a conviction. One idea must override the other.
You cannot validate your position – yet defend it still

My problem with you is you write brevity, never discuss and do not reply to my replies
I have spent four years with you

Hypothesis" Is heavenly elohiym showing plurality?
Dave's Hypothesis" The heavenly elohiym never shows plurality.
Now who has changed the topic away from your satanic proof?
Why do you put words in my mouth – you know what you say is error – and you say it anyway
Dave –100% teaches the TRINITY

You confuse the issue with your three expressions of the one Most High. What does this expressions idea mean?
God the Father – that no man can see or comprehend
The Spirit of God – God invisible that man does experience
The visible Image of God that man san see and experience

If you have one expression walking on earth and the other expression sitting in heaven, you have two beings, separated by space and time and both talk and think independently of the other? Can you present clearly your view? As a first speaker?
Yep – God the Father – never leaves His throne 24/7
God in Spirit does Tabernacle with man
God incarnate = God in the image of a man = Son of Man biology + Son of God = (Jesus)+(Christ)

The only thing that changed from the OT – a Temple od skin + a Temple of stone (twice) + a Temple of Man

If you accept the OT as Fact – accepting Jesus Christ as God in the Temple of a man – the Son of Man - is easy

[Dave]

REPEAT
Dave –100% teaches the TRINITY

You confuse the issue with your three expressions of the one Most High. What does this expressions idea mean?
God the Father – that no man can see or comprehend
God the Father – never leaves His throne 24/7
God the Father – the Creator is larger than His creation – nothing within creation can see or comprehend

The Spirit of God – God invisible that man does experience
God in Spirit does Tabernacle with man
You deny the Spirit – you say the ether of it all is a created thing a medium

The visible Image of God that man can see and experience
God incarnate = God in the image of a man

As soon as you say
If you have one expression walking on earth and the other expression sitting in heaven, you have two beings, separated by space and time and both talk and think independently of the other?
You are guilty of anthropomorphizing God

No one is saying biological Jesus in on the throne of God in heaven and on the ground at the same time.
Trinity says God has no problem being in two places at the same time - Spirit

The only thing that changed from the OT – a Temple of skin + a Temple of stone (twice) + a Temple of Man

If you accept the OT as Fact – accepting Jesus Christ as God in the Temple of a man – the Son of Man - is easy

[rob]

Greetings Dave

Dave" As soon as you say
If you have one expression walking on earth and the other expression sitting in heaven, you have two beings, separated by space and time and both talk and think independently of the other?
You are guilty of anthropomorphizing God

No one is saying biological Jesus in on the throne of God in heaven and on the ground at the same time.
Trinity says God has no problem being in two places at the same time - Spirit

The only thing that changed from the OT – a Temple of skin + a Temple of stone (twice) + a Temple of Man

If you accept the OT as Fact – accepting Jesus Christ as God in the Temple of a man – the Son of Man - is easy

ROB" Here is why readers interested in your response, would also be confused and exhausted by you. You don't say anything useful, and you did not consider my question at hand.

I am not asking you to say "IF"

Neither is "talk of a skin" useful

And this statement "No one is saying biological Jesus in on the throne of God in heaven and on the ground at the same time." says what exactly? DO you restate it again so readers catch what you are saying? No

Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

So this is saying the Father expression on earth lifted his eye to heaven and said to the Father expression in heaven, glorify the Son expression, so that the Son expression my glorify the Father expression?

Does this make sense to a reader? No

Dave" You are guilty of anthropomorphizing God

ROB" Big words often confuse people who are little readers? What is wrong with the elohiym power being seen as a function like Creation, as Romans 1:20 states?

Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Maybe you don't understand Dave, but this verse says the invisible things of the Godhead power is clearly seen by the Creation things GOD has made.

Do Daddy bears and baby bears exist on earth? Funny that?

Is the heavenly elohiym power written with terms of a family? why yes

Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God "elohiym"

Eph 3:14 ¶ For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

How on earth could you write this as I bow unto the Father and the Father expression?

Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

How can one have a Father expression dwell in your hearts by faith, if the Father is already there, and the Father is already in heaven? Where does faith come in? It doesn't?

You see a Father and Son is relational. And faith is also relational. So you cannot have a Father dwelling in you across space using faith, because there is nothing being moved across space, no power is transferred across space, because the Father is already fully in you as an expression of the Father, hence Dave's model removes faith from this verse.

Faith is defined as a relational concept of one allowing the power to move from a higher power to a lower power by free will choice. Technically speaking all creatures of free will are equal, hence the free will makes us all equal in terms of power to choose.

The faith is the ability to allow free will to choose a higher power, even though you have you own power as a human, you choose to accept the Father's power instead, and this is supplied to you.

The same can be said for an Infinite Son of Infinity. The Infinite SON chooses to allow a flow of Infinite power from His Father, rather than choose His own infinite power of Infinity. Why? Why does the Son choose to do this? Several reasons, love? meekness? humility? and to demonstrate how eternal living with Elohiym Infinite power works even for creatures with free will.

Now if you have a Father expression already in you, there is no free will to choose and thus no power flow from a Infinite source to another Infinite Source.

Now Dave, readers can try to fathom my discussion, because I try to discuss, but readers do not fathom your discussion because you do not try to expand your Father expression in a way readers can understand. You need to write discussions.

Eph 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven....

Notice the elohiym in heaven is written by Paul as a "family concept".

Not as some concept "expression" that does not exist in the Creation of Nature.

SHalom

[Dave]

I am not asking you to say "IF"
Correction – the OT is fact – God has and does Tabernacle with man – once in a tent of skins – twice in a Temple of stone – once in the Son of Man – Jesus Christ

And this statement "No one is saying biological Jesus in on the throne of God in heaven and on the ground at the same time." says what exactly? DO you restate it again so readers catch what you are saying? No

Repeat - No one is saying biological Jesus in on the throne of God in heaven and on the ground at the same time.
Trinity says God has no problem being in two places at the same time – Spirit

Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

So this is saying the Father expression on earth lifted his eye to heaven and said to the Father expression in heaven, glorify the Son expression, so that the Son expression my glorify the Father expression?

This verse is saying that God incarnate Jesus Christ lifted His eyes to heaven a said to the Father Creator in heaven – glorify Jesus Christ so that Jesus Christ can be an effective witness on earth.

God in heaven – God on earth - Trinity says God has no problem being in two places at the same time – Spirit
God in heaven – God on earth – Tabernacling with man in a Temple of skins
God in heaven – God on earth – Tabernacling with man in a Temple of stone
God in heaven – God on earth – Tabernacling with man in a Temple of a man

Jesus is biology – Jesus cannot be in two places at the same time
And this statement "No one is saying biological Jesus in on the throne of God in heaven and on the ground at the same time." says what exactly? DO you restate it again so readers catch what you are saying? No

Eph 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven....
God is Father – everything is a child of God

Does not means there is more than one singularity called God
Monotheism – there is only one God - there is no other

[rob]

Greetings Dave

I agree the term family does not mean more than one infinity. Infinity is infinity.

But it does suggest infinity is packaged into persons of infinity, as the term family is by definition. A family is all the DNA there is, repacked differently as persons.

So I agree "there is only one Infinity - there is no other'

Correct you also do not consider the DNA package can be rearranged as persons of packages each with different expressions of loving. (excuse me for using Romans 1:20 OK?)

Father 23 DNA books + XY SON functions as a provider 23 DNA books + XY functions as a collector

Mother 23 books + XX functions as a responder.

All three packages are infinite and thus are infinity. Why can't the number infinity be rearranged as packages of infinity? Such a process is seen in the Creation, as ROmans 1:20 teaches us.

D" everything is a child of God

R" yes but this is a statement as a subset of infinity, showing a finite creature; what about infinity itself"

Why can't infinity be subject to arrangements of infinite packaging?
Discuss this idea with me Dave,

After all the torah teaches this? Father and Son? Why do you make this a being with two faces of expression? This is not the literal reading of the verse.

Shalom

[Dave]

I agree the term family does not mean more than one infinity. Infinity is infinity.
But it does suggest infinity is packaged into persons of infinity, as the term family is by definition. A family is all the DNA there is, repacked differently as persons.
So I agree "there is only one Infinity - there is no other'

Cool – now answer your own question
If you have one expression walking on earth and the other expression sitting in heaven, you have two beings, separated by space and time and both talk and think independently of the other?

Do you have one god or two? - OR MORE?

[rob]

Why are you asking me? In my view that is two personalities of infinity. But one infinity.
Which is my view.

[Dave]

DAVE - Then why don't you answer your own question?
If you have one expression walking on earth and the other expression sitting in heaven, you have two beings, separated by space and time and both talk and think independently of the other?

You teach two gods - two seperate beings seperated by time and space

[rob]

Three strong authorities with expressions of different infinity packages of infinity.
Correct.

This arrangement makes infinity still a cardinal one of infinity. So this idea of one elohiym power is still preserved.

Making infinity express itself differently does not make two gods as you claim.
The maths number cannot be divided into two or three numbers of infinity.

Using Romans 1:20

with human creation telling us about infinity

With all DNA inside Adam, how is a different expression of the woman, making her into a second human being kind. It's not.

The Scriptures consider the male and the female as cardinally one flesh, not a unit of flesh as some translate, but the cardinally one flesh.

There is no difference in the DNA between Adam and the Eve, She was built from Adam.
Hence as far as infinity is concerned the different expressions of infinity do not make different Gods as you claim.

Question. How many kinds did God create for the human? Answer One
How many expression packages does this one kind include? Answer three provider, responder and collector
The children come later through a borning process which is a mixing of DNA, not a producing of brand new DNA.

So if the DNA is man's grand set of sacred words, the human is not two gods or three gods, but one god.

If fact elohiym describes this fact

Ge 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the "adam" is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

God describes the couple as ONE entity like ELohiym as ONE entity, knowing both good and evil.

Shalom

[Dave]

Jan 1, 2024 8:02:51 GMT -5 Dave said:

DAVE - Then why don't you answer your own question?
If you have one expression walking on earth and the other expression sitting in heaven, you have two beings, separated by space and time and both talk and think independently of the other?

You teach two gods - two seperate beings seperated by time and space

ANSWER THE QUESTION - OR STOP WASTING OUR TIME

[rob]

Dave you cannot make infinity into two infinities.

Maths does not allow this.

D"ANSWER THE QUESTION - OR STOP WASTING OUR TIME

R" I did answer the question, you failed to read my words

Shalom

[Dave]

You teach two gods - two seperate beings seperated by time and space

If you have one expression walking on earth and the other expression sitting in heaven, you have two beings, separated by space and time and both talk and think independently of the other?

Three strong authorities with expressions of different infinity packages of infinity.
Making infinity express itself differently does not make two gods as you claim.

When I used the term expression - you mocked me for 2 years
Now here you are pretending to be a Triniterian
I am glad you have seen your family of multiple gods working together as a 'unit' is just pagan polythiestic nonsense

The question is - will you continue to teach your pagan false teaching to other?

[rob]

Greetings Dave

On my two day drive, God and I have a communion about this question

It went like this

Take the number infinity.

In maths we place infinity into a Universal set.

Is Maths allowed to take the elements in a Universal set and make identical copies of all the elements, making in fact two Universal Sets. Is this allowed?

Well in my office I have a removal drive with all my family photos in them, 4 GB. So I have a back-up of the photos in case the removal drive dies with age.

So on my desk are 4 removable drive all with my family photos.

Question: If the family pictures is all the pictures I own, does this mean I have four lots of family pictures? No it means I have four copies of ONE Set of Family Pictures.

So I could place the Family Photos into a universal set with four copies of the Family Pictures.

What about the DNA? Well the DNA has four copies of all the Sacred letters and words, arranged in two strands with two copies arranged front to back and back to front.

Question have much Sacred letters and words do I have? One set, only 4 copies of the same set.

Suppose Infinity decided to make three copies of Infinity, how many Infinities do we have ? Only One. But we can make three universal sets each called Infinity. Maths does allow this idea?

Suppose one of the sets decides to express itself different from the other sets, so we have infinity arranged as a community of expression in order to make love and loving function as a relational function. This is exactly how the female Eve was expressed using the same sacred letters and word that Adam has, for the woman was built out of the man, not formed and not created, but built.

To confirm this idea is correct, the Bible does not consider the man and the woman as two flesh, but one flesh, not even a unit, but cardinally the same flesh. Lev 18 says the nakedness of a woman is the same nakedness of the man.

Now this makes no sense to you Dave, but it's Hebrew and using Romans 1:20, the Creation describes the nature of the Godhead.

Shalom

[Dave]

Is Maths allowed to take the elements in a Universal set and make identical copies of all the elements, making in fact two Universal Sets. Is this allowed?
To make copies = a polytheistic pantheon

Suppose one of the sets decides to express itself different from the other sets,
Absolutely impossible – there is only one god – monotheism

so we have infinity arranged as a community of expression in order to make love and loving function as a relational function.

Correct – you need multiple gods so relational love can exist
Your god is incapable of GRACE without help
Your god is unable to love his own creation without having help from another god
And Jesus prayed to the Father proving they were two different gods

It is absolute pagan nonsense rejected – again – and again
You are not Judeo-Christian in the slightest – you teach an alternative religion from Ellen White