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Post by Dave on Jun 13, 2022 15:32:57 GMT -5
(google) In Seventh-day Adventist theology, the Great Controversy theme refers to the cosmic battle between Jesus Christ and Satan, also played out on earth. Ellen G. White, a co-founder of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, delineates the theme in her book The Great Controversy, first published in 1858. The cosmic battle between Jesus Christ and SatanIf Robert denies that Christ is God, why does he say the controversy is satan opposing God?The idea of two gods, or two opposing forces within heaven is Persian Zoroasterianism (google) Angra Mainyu, also known as Aŋra Mainiiu and his Middle Persian name of "Ahriman", is one of two central deities in Zoroastrianism. He is the powerful god of evil, destruction, and darkness, and the brother of the benevolent Zoroastrian god Ahura Mazda, who created the universe. He is often seen as the Zoroastrian equivalent of Satan/The Devil and the Antichrist but unlike the two, he is not a creation of Ahura Mazda and is instead the Anti-God. He is also said to be the personification of the negative moral concept called the Druj ("The Lie" or "Lie", from an old feminine word in the old Avestan language meaning "falsehood"), a terrible energy that "designates" all beings to choose chaos over its ethical opposite called the asha ("Truth"). The idea of angelic rebellion is Islamic(google) According to the Quran, how did the Iblis (the Satan) rebellion ...https://questionsonislam.com › article › according-qura... Iblis rebelled, looked, and still is looking for followers to rebel against Allah Almighty. The idea of angelic rebellion is Catholic(google) Fallen angels, just like angels, play a significant role in the spiritual life of believers. As in Catholicism, fallen angels tempt and incite people into sin, The idea of two gods, or two opposing forces within heaven is NOT JEWISH THEOLOGYwww.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13219-satanYet it is also evident from the prologue that Satan has no power of independent action, but requires the permission of God, which he may not transgress. He can not be regarded, therefore, as an opponent of the Deity; and the doctrine of monotheism is disturbed by his existence no more than by the presence of other beings before the face of God. The idea of two gods, or two opposing forces within heaven is NOT JEWISH THEOLOGYIn Judaism – the contest takes place in the WORLD Gen 3:12-20 – man vrs WORLD + man vrs archon (the seed of the serpent) archon Baal Zebub, in his capacity as god of the hated Philistines, became the representative of the heathen power and consequently the arch-enemy, the foe par excellence, and therefore the name "Baal debaba" ("debaba" being the Aramaic form corresponding to Hebrew "Zebub") Belzeebub is not a god in heaven – he is just a false god pretending to be god He did not create this WORLD – God did He cannot save you – only God canBelzeebub is Jewish theology 101 – a created being – the offspring of an Arch-AngelWho is not an angel – but a biological life form – a race all of its own – a kind of its own Jewish theology 101 – Belzeebub is not the Creator – just a created thing placed in their path to overcome
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2022 17:13:20 GMT -5
D"Belzeebub is not a god in heaven – he is just a false god pretending to be god He did not create this WORLD – God did He cannot save you – only God can
R" First you cannot have a pretending power, what a silly notion....
SO the Inquisitor in Silence was a pretending power and cut off the head of Japanese Christian'?
Why do you make extreme comparisons between them?
"Belzeebub is not a god in heaven", so DUH "He did not create this WORLD – God did", obviously, DUH "He cannot save you – only God can", obviously, DUH
Buddha is not a god in heaven Buddha did not create the world Buddha cannot save you
You speak mockery of these elohiym powers Dave, in Silence, they would cut off your head. You lack respect. Have you no honour?
Does God laugh at the sinner who sins, like a elephant does to the ant beneath its feet?
Ps 2:1 ¶ Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, 3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. 4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. 5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. 6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 ¶ I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
In this passage the Lord laughs at the idea that the sinners can stop God from saving the world by sending His Son, born as a human.
But no where does God mock sinners who sin, nor does God treat them as pretenders.
Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
Sinning is treated seriously with God, there are no pretending sinners.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O bright Star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
How do we know this is poetry, ? because of the strange word pictures "the stars of God" Who are the stars of God? its a simile, a literal picture of something else literal,
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
How can a star of God ascend above the Father?
I see no pretending here, maybe the star pretends to be the Creator, pretends to be the Father, and pretends to save humans from sin. Deception is a better word than pretend.
Fist you need to acknowledge that this Beelzebub is actually an opposing elohiym power, opposing the Father.
And in order to oppose the Father, Beelzebub must sin freely.
You do not acknowledge these two conditions.
DO you agree with these two terms?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jun 13, 2022 23:34:50 GMT -5
D"Belzeebub is not a god in heaven – he is just a false god pretending to be god R" First you cannot have a pretending power, what a silly notion....
SO the Inquisitor in Silence was a pretending power and cut off the head of Japanese Christian'? Allah is a pretend god – and Islam will cut your head off
Why do you make extreme comparisons between them? DUH – Are you validating Allah as God? Are you validating Beelzebub as God Are you validating Caesar as God Just like you make satan a god in heaven equal to the Creator - god vrs god – Great Controversy
Buddha is not a god in heaven Buddha was a man named Siddhartha – he never claimed to be a god of any kind
You speak mockery of these elohiym powers Dave YES I DO – I MOCK THEM ALL AND ALL WHO WORSHIP THEM AS gODS
THEY ARE NOT GOD – they are created beings – they are trouble makers – and thorns in our biology They are NOT to be worshiped – validated as gods by anyone – especially a Jew or Christian
THEY ARE NOT GOD - they are demons - devils - satanas - the seprent race - that decieve the whole WORLD
THEY ARE NOT GOD - they are just obsticles of this WORLD
You have to many gods in your pagan pantheon
in Silence, they would cut off your head. You lack respect. Have you no honour?
Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.
Ceasar can feed me to the lions – it does make him anything more than a man pretending to be a god
In this passage the Lord laughs at the idea that the sinners can stop God from saving the world by sending His Son, born as a human. But you say this is your satan’s Job God mocks your theology – and so do I
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. How can a star of God ascend above the Father? ONLY IN HIS PRETEND VANITY DREAM!
I see no pretending here, maybe. Deception is a better word than pretend. Who cares about your word game
Fist you need to acknowledge that this Beelzebub is actually an opposing elohiym power, opposing the Father. I do not acknowledge anyone can oppose God – Beelzebub opposes man
Job 23:13 He is unchangeable, and who can change Him? Whatever His soul desires, He does.
There is no Great Controversy in heaven between two gods
The Contest takes place on earth - man vrs WORLD + man vrs the serpents' seed - archon Our real struggel is against Principalities - archon
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2022 4:06:18 GMT -5
RP" First you need to acknowledge that this Beelzebub is actually an opposing elohiym power, opposing the Father.
D" I do not acknowledge anyone can oppose God – Beelzebub opposes man
R" SO the Father never wrote absolute immutable laws? These laws were written only for mankind?
Let's test that Dave theory OK?
Ex 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
DO you agree these laws had to have existed before mankind existed? Why do I say this, because there is a command to remember Sabbath, and Sabbath is the work of a Creator creating, is to be remembered. So the ten commandments had to have existed before Sabbath was created.
DO you agree with this logic?
Next question:
Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Who is this opposing elohiym power, that the Father hates ?
It also had to have existed before Sabbath existed, after all its an immutable eternal law written by God's finger.
Wander through this entire Psalm and ask yourself, what is not immutable about God's ten commandment laws?
Ps 119:44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.
How can this be eternal, if it's just for man?
Ps 119:64 ¶ The earth, O LORD, is full of thy mercy: teach me thy statutes.
How can the earth be our enemy if the earth is full of mercy?
Ps 119:105 ¶ NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Sound's like the law is as universal as the love is as light is.
Ps 119:115 ¶ Depart from me, ye evildoers: for I will keep the commandments of my God.
It says the ra doers destroy the law, but I guard the commandments.... so making creatures of ra, is not following the ten commandments according to this Psalm. God would not allow ra creatures to appear under his left hand.
The temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple the ark of His testament.” Revelation 11:19.
How come the ten commandments are in the ark in heaven?
How come God sits on a throne over a mercy seat, and under the mercy seat is the ten commandments?
If God has no law, than God cannot judge. It is also important the judge guards the same laws, otherwise we do not have a fair judge.
So who are these opposing elohiym powers, as written in the Ten commandments, that existed before Creation Week, describing the time to remember Sabbath?
Answer: HAS TO THE CREATURES THAT WARRED IN HEAVEN AND WAS BANISHED TO EARTH, ALONG WITH THE SERPENT, THE CHIEF LEADER OF THE OPPOSING ELOHIYM POWER.
pretend or not pretend, fake / deceivers, creatures, whatever, they have to be opposing elohiym powers, otherwise this law is violated. Now do you agree with me?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jun 14, 2022 10:40:08 GMT -5
RP" First you need to acknowledge that this Beelzebub is actually an opposing elohiym power, opposing the Father. D" I do not acknowledge anyone can oppose God – Beelzebub opposes man
R" SO the Father never wrote absolute immutable laws? These laws were written only for mankind? YES – the Torah was not given to the animals – the Torah was not given to the angels – The Torah was not given to the Beast
The Torah was directly given to man 3 times Before Birth – at Sini – at Pentecost
The angel of the Lord murdered all the first born of Egypt God instructed Israel to perform genocide upon the Amorite from Jericho to Saul You refuse to answer why it is a sin to obey God
Let's test that Dave theory OK? Ex 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. DO you agree these laws had to have existed before mankind existed? Why do I say this, because there is a command to remember Sabbath, and Sabbath is the work of a Creator creating, is to be remembered. So the ten commandments had to have existed before Sabbath was created. DO you agree with this logic? You speak a bunch of religious talk – the Sabbath came about as God rested on Day 7
Next question: Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Who is this opposing elohiym power, that the Father hates ?
Jesus is quoted as saying Mat 6:19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal. Mat 6:20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in or steal. Mat 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. Mat 6:22 “The eye is the lamp of the body. Therefore if your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. Mat 6:23 But if your eye is bad, your body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness! Mat 6:24 “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stick by one and look down on the other. You cannot serve God and money.”
Mammon – money – wealth – fame or fortune - = WORLD
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Be NOT of this WORLD – long for the next
The BEAST is the serpent that deceives the whole WORLD – The WORLD is his kingdom Man is just passing through the WORLD – having a physical experience here – a souljourn
Psa 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, Here – WORLD – physicality – our 3D mortal reality
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. I will not be bothered by false gods – I will not bow to them – I will not honor them – I will not validated them as a god – they are demons – nothing more – they are shedim / archon / Jinn / demons / shades
If God has no law, than God cannot judge. It is also important the judge guards the same laws, otherwise we do not have a fair judge. Correct - Rom 5:13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
So who are these opposing elohiym powers, as written in the Ten commandments, that existed before Creation Week), Agreed since Gen 1:2 / Rev 12:1-5
Answer: HAS TO THE CREATURES THAT WARRED IN HEAVEN AND WAS BANISHED TO EARTH, ALONG WITH THE SERPENT, THE CHIEF LEADER OF THE OPPOSING ELOHIYM POWER. Agreed - Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satanas, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
pretend or not pretend, fake / deceivers, creatures, whatever, they have to be opposing elohiym powers, otherwise this law is violated. Now do you agree with me? YES Robert the serpent race = the ‘other gods’ of the Levant
They are not angels – as you define the word They are not – from God messengers – good guy messengers = angels of the Lord They are from the Beast messengers – bad guy messengers = angels of the beast – archon / principalities / demons / devils / satanas
They are not eternal or immortal They are some form of biological creature as described in Gen 3 Don’t skip over scripture
Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: - biological Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. – serpent’s seed = offspring
pretend or not pretend, fake / deceivers, creatures, whatever, they have to be opposing elohiym powers, otherwise this law is violated. Now do you agree with me? YES Robert the serpent race = the ‘other gods’ of the Levant YES Robert they are the shedim of King Solomon – they are the archon Gnostic NHL – they are the Principalities of the agl/NT – they are the Jinn of Islam – they are the demons of Christianity – they are VERY REAL – the REALITY OF THE ARCHON
They are not GODS – they are ‘other gods’ – they are demons in disguise pretending to be a god They are created beings – thriving on vanity (yester ra) They are no more a god than Caesar – he is just a man Sure Caesar can kill me – but he can only kill the mortal flesh – not the immortal spirit
My Filipino wife prayed to the Pope until she was 25 – he is just a man and heard nothing and answered nothing The Christian Pope and Christian Rome has killed how many?
Allah is not a God – he is the devil in disguise – pretending to be God Allah is only Baal with a more modern Arabic name Satan is only Baal with a Catholic name Beelzebub is only Baal with a Jewish name
Baal = the god of self (yester ra) if it feels good do it – if you want it take it To prove you worship Baal – human sacrifice – especially the first born baby
Rev 12:4 … the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
And why you cannot argue the human sacrifice of Jesus to a Jew A Jew will say – big deal all men die – proof Jesus was just a man
You must argue the Resurrection – because resurrection / reincarnation are Jewish Theology All Jews believe Life Lives
The Resurrection of Jesus Christ proves Life Lives Is Jesus Christ dead – NO – he came back and walk and talk with the disciples for up to 50 days Jesus Christ is NOT dead – He is alive and well working miracles in the WORLD every day Jesus Christ is NOT dead = Life Lives and the Resurrection is the Proof
Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. Deliberate – God’s Plan – God’s Will – necessary to prove jesus was tempted just like any man
Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Mat 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Proof Jesus Christ is God incarnate
Mat 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; Mat 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
The WORLD – the devils Kingdom – it is all your satan has to offer – just WORLD
Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Proof Jesus Christ was God incarnate
Mat 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him. YEP – reject – deny – do not elevate in any way – do not validate – look upon the snake on the pole and it becomes just a snake in the grass – a nuisance – an obstacle
Your SDA Great Controversy has two opposing gods opposing each other NOT JEWISH THEOLOGY – NOT SCRIPTURAL – your god of evil is a Catholic Invention
Elevating a demon to godhood – while diminishing the sovereignty of God NONSENCE SATAN WORSHIP No created creature ever changed his form and function/purpose against God’s Will – impossible No created creature then altered God original Plan against God’s Will – impossible
It is all God’s Plan – it is All God’s Will If God made a thing – it remains If God made you for a predestine purpose – you cannot escape God’s Plan for your life – Jonah
God is Absolute – there is Only One True God He made it all by Him for Him = nothing exist that was not made by Him for Him – His pleasure
All these ‘other gods’ – are created biological creatures – they are nothing more than demons and devils YES – they can do parlor tricks – wind / rain / fertility / strength in battel – it is JUST WORLD Who cares – Only God is the Creator – Only God can save your immortal soul – Only God came to earth incarnate to Prove Life Lives
There is no escape to the restful sleep of the grave We will all meet our maker – SOONER not LATER We will all answer for our DEEDS – WORKS – and FRUIT → First Resurrection Or we will receive the Divine Pardon through Christ → First Fruits Or - our DEEDS – WORKS → throw us into the Lake of Fire – the Second Death
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2022 15:15:55 GMT -5
RP" These laws were written only for mankind? D" YES – the Torah was not given to the animals – the Torah was not given to the angels – The Torah was not given to the Beast
D"...the Torah was not given to the animals
Gerald " Animals have choice because, according to the Bible, animals have a nefesh, and the nefesh provides the freedom to process and evaluate information. Biblically an animal is defined as nefesh hiyah — a living nefesh (Gen. 1:20). Nature strives toward complexity because complexity carries with it survivability through intelligent adaptability. R" I beg to differ with you, and so does Gerald. Animals have intellect and reasoning powers to live within the boundaries of love. That love is defined in the directions given by the royal torah, so my friend you are wrong, unless you supply my with verses to the contrary.
D"the Torah was not given to the angels – The Torah was not given to the Beast These creatures are the same. There is no Hebrew verse describing the creation or making of shedim as you claim.
The writings of Gerald are strange at times"
When I was first struggling with the questions of our origins, I steeled my courage to ask the renowned biblical scholar, Rabbi Aharon Lichtenstein, if it was possible that Adam had an ancestor. Not knowing what to expect, I skirted the issue for a few awkward minutes. When I finally presented the question, his matter-of-fact reply almost bowled me over: “The text of Genesis and the ancient commentaries of Nahmanides on that text certainly [certainly, mind you!] leave the door open for that interpretation.” Too often he is swayed by popular Jewish writings outside of the received Hebrew torah. He is happy to add Jewish talmud about Adam spending a hundred years mating with other women apart from Eve, Gerald does not detail what these offspring are, something humanoid?
If all creation follows natural law, if all animals are programmed to live following natural law, it makes sense to me that all living also corresponds to natural and moral law, in fact moral law is simply an extension of natural law. You have to prove to me that the royal torah is NOT a universal law, and you cannot do that.
Ez 28 tells us cherub sinned, and that defines for me that cherubims obey moral laws too like humans have to. But you are trained to ignore Hebrew inspired writings you do not like?
D"The angel of the Lord murdered all the first born of Egypt God instructed Israel to perform genocide upon the Amorite from Jericho to Saul
R" I told you before, first you have to convince me it was from GOD, which I doubt this. When God allows a lying medium to make sinning humans sin more extensively, the opposing elohiym power agrees to do this function. ( see 1 Kings 23) Is this not true?
D"You refuse to answer why it is a sin to obey God R" This question is an oxymoron and thus cannot be answered. God would never transgress His own royal torah nor ask any creature to do so.
Isa 28:21 For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.
Regarding the strange act of God, unless you have the humility and meekness to address this function of God, it is best left alone.
D"You speak a bunch of religious talk – the Sabbath came about as God rested on Day 7 R" Can't you dare to discuss with me, not what I am saying.
So if Sabbath came about because God rested, than Sabbath existed as a law before God rested.
DO you agree with this idea?
I ask you a question and you ignore answering it? WHy is that?
Next question: Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Who is this opposing elohiym power, that the Father hates ?
And Dave avoids the question, talking about Mammon.
D"Jesus is quoted as saying D"Mammon – money – wealth – fame or fortune - = WORLD R" Dave you did not answer my question....
Next question: Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Who is this opposing elohiym power, that the Father hates ?
D"The BEAST is the serpent that deceives the whole WORLD – The WORLD is his kingdom Man is just passing through the WORLD – having a physical experience here – a souljourn R"so Dave, are you saying this opposing elohiym power is the beast power, the serpent, who deceives the whole world, and according to the royal torah, opposes God, because GOD does not want any creature worshipping this elohiym power.
This law was written BEFORE MAN existed, or during man existed, but before His first day of living, so the command is not about world, or man, or anything on earth, because the opposing elohiym power existed, when Sabbath law existed. DO you agree?
D" I will not be bothered by false gods – I will not bow to them – I will not honor them – I will not validated them as a god – they are demons – nothing more – they are shedim / archon / Jinn / demons / shades R" correct, but answer the question, are these shedim the opposing elohiym powers mentioned in the royal law?
RP" If God has no law, than God cannot judge. It is also important the judge guards the same laws, otherwise we do not have a fair judge. D" Correct -
R" So this opposing elohiym power has to be the shedim. DO you agree with this idea?
RP"So who are these opposing elohiym powers, as written in the Ten commandments, that existed before Creation Week), D" Agreed since Gen 1:2 / Rev 12:1-5
RP": HAS TO THE CREATURES THAT WARRED IN HEAVEN AND WAS BANISHED TO EARTH, ALONG WITH THE SERPENT, THE CHIEF LEADER OF THE OPPOSING ELOHIYM POWER. D" Agreed
RP" pretend or not pretend, fake / deceivers, creatures, whatever, they have to be opposing elohiym powers, otherwise this law is violated. Now do you agree with me? D" YES Robert the serpent race = the ‘other gods’ of the Levant
Finally you agree, but you are quick to disagree also
They are not GODS – they are ‘other gods’ – they are demons in disguise pretending to be a god they are the shedim of King Solomon They are not angels – as you define the word They are not – from God messengers they are VERY REAL – the REALITY OF THE ARCHON They are created beings – thriving on vanity (yester ra)
R' I will comment these later
D" Your SDA Great Controversy has two opposing gods opposing each other NOT JEWISH THEOLOGY – NOT SCRIPTURAL
R" Why isn't it scriptural Dave? You just agreed there is an opposing elohiym power before the Father's face. This immutable law was written for creatures that sin, and something had to become an opposing elohiym power.
In fact sinning is the only opposing force the Father puts up with. Natural ra, friction, heat loss, etc, is simply the Father allowing a sinning world to continue sinning. Gerald" So how are we to understand creationism? Biblically, creation is a divine act of tsimtsum, contraction — a spiritual contraction by which the Creator removes part of Its infinite unity ... Rob" I can relate to this idea, God moved so the sinning can continue to develop as some sinning creature wanted.
My point is some opposing elohiym power began long time ago, as the royal torah says.
You are denying Scripture, and flip flopping after you just agreed with me, now you disagree again? Please explain
D"No created creature ever changed his form and function/purpose against God’s Will – impossible R" Here you go again?
Questions"
1 Can sinning become a change of function ?
2 Can sinning change your form?
3 For sinning to exist at all, God would have to do something to allow sinning to exist.
Answer these questions....
D"No created creature then altered God original Plan against God’s Will – impossible R" I see, than how would a sinning creature sin than? impossible?
The only way a sinning creature could exist is for God to do "a divine act of tsimtsum, contraction — a spiritual contraction by which the Creator removes part of Its infinite unity ", by allowing the Umbra Shadows could form and other natural RA associated with sin.
Otherwise sinning would not exist.
God only lives in a TOV universe in LOVE.
D"All these ‘other gods’ – are created biological creatures – they are nothing more than demons and devils R" I don't care, they have to be opposing elohiym powers, and you agreed with me.
SO STOP changing the theme, the fact is the Father long before mankind ever existed, had opposing elohiym powers before His face. Royal commandments say so.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Jun 16, 2022 5:29:41 GMT -5
D" Your SDA Great Controversy has two opposing gods opposing each other NOT JEWISH THEOLOGY – NOT SCRIPTURAL
R" Why isn't it scriptural Dave? (1) there are NOT 2 opposing gods struggling against one another in heaven – a COSMIC STRUGGLE Ellen White says
This is a pagan religion born in Iran and India Zorasterism – The God of tov Ahura Masda –vrs- Angra Mainyu (also known as Ahriman)
This is the bases for the pagan religion of Taoism / Daoist – The continuous struggle between Yin and Yang
(2) There is only One God – There is only One God in heaven The Beast – the old serpent – who we call archon were ejected from heaven
Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
there are NOT 2 opposing gods struggling against one another in heaven – a COSMIC STRUGGLE Ellen White says
(3)Interesting that your SDA Controversy is between satan and Jesus You claim that Christ cannot be the One True God – Jesus in NOT God incarnate But you claim your Controversy is between your satan and God You claim words matter – you play all types of word games Yet - you preach religious contradiction
(4) there are NOT 2 opposing gods struggling against one another in heaven – a COSMIC STRUGGLE Ellen White says The Beast is the ‘sar’ of the physical WORLD The WORLD is the domain / kingdom of the Beast and all his archon / shedim / Jinn / demons / shades
The controversy – Contest – takes place NOT in heaven – but in the WORLD
There is only One God – There is only One God in heaven The Beast – the old serpent – who we call archon were ejected from heaven in Gen 1:2 And choshek / chaos – ignorance – physical selfishness (yester ra) APPEARED – within physical creation
You just agreed there is an opposing elohiym power before the Father's face. Caesar called himself a god – forced people to worship him as a god – in the end – he was just a man A demon can pretend to be god – he can even do magic tricks – in the end – he is just a demon
something had to become an opposing elohiym power. Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
(yester ra) – you refuse to even look at the real definition or meaning of the Hebrew concept
Gerald" So how are we to understand creationism? Biblically, creation is a divine act of tsimtsum, contraction — a spiritual contraction by which the Creator removes part of Its infinite unity ... (google) The tzimtzum or tsimtsum is a term used in the Lurianic Kabbalah to explain Isaac Luria's doctrine that God began the process of creation by "contracting" his Ohr Ein Sof in order to allow for a "conceptual space" in which finite and seemingly independent realms could exist. Rob" I can relate to this idea, God moved so the sinning can continue to develop as some sinning creature wanted. NOTHING FORCES GOD TO MOVE – the beast was removed from God’s heaven and thrown into physical creation YES – God separated the Light from the Darkness – absolutely agree
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
My point is some opposing elohiym power began long time ago, Your point is that God tried to make a tov reality – but could not because your satan spoiled id all against God’s Will My point – YES – the Beast that devours appeared and was cast OUT of heaven and into EARTH
there are NOT 2 opposing gods struggling against one another in heaven – a COSMIC STRUGGLE Ellen White says -----------------
D"No created creature ever changed his form and function/purpose against God’s Will – impossible Questions" 1 Can sinning become a change of function ? NO – if you can sin – you were created with the ability to sin – definition of man
2 Can sinning change your form? Ridicules – cows never become pigs – man never turns into a demon - angels never turn into demons – grandma never became an angel with wings
3 For sinning to exist at all, God would have to do something to allow sinning to exist. Correct – he gave man FREE WILL – the ability to choose And there is only one choice – obey God and His commandments or NOT The definition of SIN = obey His commandments or NOT
Answer these questions.... D"No created creature then altered God original Plan against God’s Will – impossible R" I see, than how would a sinning creature sin than? impossible? Answer – by disobeying God’s commandments - he definition of sin - DUH
God only lives in a TOV universe in LOVE. Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
The Teaching of the Torah / Gospel written in the first stanza of the Torah God is the Creator Ra exist in the world But God offers the Light out of the darkness of ignorance
And God called it H2896 – טוֹב - ṭôb - good (as an adjective) in the widest sense; SEVEN TIMES Gen 1:4-31 ----------------------------
D"All these ‘other gods’ – are created biological creatures – they are nothing more than demons and devils R" I don't care That is so obvious you have made it veryt clear - you recognise satan as a god
There is no opposing god in heaven opposing God There are only created being within this world that oppose man – keeping man sidetracked so he does not have the time to devote to the Holy Spirit They are not gods - they are just things of this world - and all they have to offer is this world
SO STOP changing the theme THIS IS THE THEME - THERE IS NOT TWO OPPOSING GODS FACING OFF IN HEAVEN D" Your SDA Great Controversy has two opposing gods opposing each other – Ellen Whites Cosmic Struggle NOT JEWISH THEOLOGY – NOT SCRIPTURAL
The idea elevates / promotes a demon to a position of power in heaven 100% satan worship
The idea diminishes God – because God’s Will and God’s Plan can be changed You teach – God tried to make a tov world – BUT COULDN’T – what an insult to the Creator BECAUE your powerful satan god changed it all – spoiled it – you give the credit and praise to the wrong god ------------------
D"...the Torah was not given to the animals R" I beg to differ with you, and so does Gerald. Animals have intellect and reasoning powers to live within the boundaries of love. That love is defined in the directions given by the royal torah, so my friend you are wrong, unless you supply my with verses to the contrary.
Intellect has nothing to do with the Free Will choice to obey God or not If you preach only the intelligent can be saved – you should worry
D"the Torah was not given to the angels – The Torah was not given to the Beast These creatures are the same. There is no Hebrew verse describing the creation or making of shedim as you claim. Give me your scripture where a cow can change into a pig You say beautiful angels of spirit can change into gross looking biological creatures Give me your scripture this can happen If it exist God made it – there is only one Creator ----------------
The writings of Gerald are strange at times" Was it was possible that Adam had an ancestor. “The text of Genesis and the ancient commentaries certainly [certainly, mind you!] leave the door open for that interpretation.” Too often he is swayed by popular Jewish writings outside of the received Hebrew torah. Sorry – Gen 1 = man (Humanoid) – before Gen 2 man (Human Being) = 100% Torah Total agreement with the fossil record Total agreement with Intelligent Design Total agreement with Torah
D"The angel of the Lord murdered all the first born of Egypt R" I told you before, first you have to convince me it was from GOD, which I doubt this. So – who else sent the 10 plagues upon the Egyptians?
Are you suggesting it was your satan that liberated the Jews from Egypt? Exo 9:1 Then the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh, and tell him, Thus saith the LORD God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me. Exo 9:2 For if thou refuse to let them go, and wilt hold them still, Exo 9:3 Behold, the hand of the LORD is upon
Exo 9:12 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, Are you suggesting it was your satan that liberated the Jews from Egypt?
You pray to the wrong god
D” God instructed Israel to perform genocide upon the Amorite from Jericho to Saul R" I told you before, first you have to convince me it was from GOD, which I doubt this.
Deu 20:16 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth: Deu 20:17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee: Are you suggesting it was your satan that gave the Promised land as heritance?
You pray to the wrong god
D"You refuse to answer why it is a sin to obey God R" This question is an oxymoron and thus cannot be answered. God would never transgress His own royal torah nor ask any creature to do so. So who sent the plagues onto Egypt – including the angel of death? So who commanded Israel to commit genocide? D"You refuse to answer why it is a sin to obey God
D"You speak a bunch of religious talk – the Sabbath came about as God rested on Day 7 R" Can't you dare to discuss with me, not what I am saying. So if Sabbath came about because God rested, than Sabbath existed as a law before God rested. If Day 7 happened on Day 7 then the Sabbath existed before Day 7 – is this your question?
DO you agree with this idea? - NO Days 1 through 6 = God was not resting – He was creating
Next question: Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Who is this opposing elohiym power, that the Father hates ?
And Dave avoids the question, talking about Mammon. Dave quoted Jesu Christ – God incarnate – this answer should be the best answer possible D"Jesus is quoted as saying D"Mammon – money – wealth – fame or fortune - = WORLD R" Dave you did not answer my question.... Do you deny the words of Jesus Christ ? Is money a god to worship Is power and fame a god to worship Is football – or sports – or your academic / political career a god to worship YES – if that is you treasure – your focus – what you think is valuable – what you think is important Anything that draws you away from God toward (yester ra)
None of this requires an angel named satan You are a man- there were times in your life that you LUSTED and DESIRED None of this requires an angel named satan
You are a man – there were times in your life when you – had less than the love of Christ for your boss and your government – you have been angry – you have been malicious None of this requires an angel named satan All it requires is the BEAST of this WORLD and the (yester ra) of your nature
Next question: Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Who is this opposing elohiym power, that the Father hates ?
D"The BEAST is the serpent that deceives the whole WORLD – The WORLD is his kingdom Man is just passing through the WORLD – having a physical experience here – a souljourn R"so Dave, are you saying this opposing elohiym power is the beast power, the serpent, who deceives the whole world, and according to the royal torah, opposes God, because GOD does not want any creature worshipping this elohiym power.
OK – I give in You are correct – God does not want anyone to choose WORLD over a spirituals relationship with Him I will agree to this You are correct – God does not want you to world anything of this world over Him I will agree to this You are correct – God does not want you to bow to the serpent – or devils – or satanas I agree with you - - because God is a jealous God – Royal Law
D" I will not be bothered by false gods – I will not bow to them – I will not honor them – I will not validated them as a god – they are demons – nothing more – they are shedim / archon / Jinn / demons / shades R" correct Then why do you call them god – and say things like I have two gods and two kings As if they were equal in any way Then why do you give them the power to change God’s Plan against God’s Will
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2022 17:07:47 GMT -5
D" There is only One God – There is only One God in heaven The Beast – the old serpent – who we call archon were ejected from heavenR" Correct the opposing elohiym power was ejected from heaven.... you agree with me on this don't you? D" there are NOT 2 opposing gods struggling against one another in heaven – a COSMIC STRUGGLE Ellen White saysR" Who says there have to be always in heaven? DO you just like to be nitpicking and arguing? Rev 12 says the opposing elohiym power was once in heaven, but God ejected the opposing elohiym power down to earth, DO you agree with this idea? D" The Beast is the ‘sar’ of the physical WORLDR" correct a prince of his kingdom D" The controversy – Contest – takes place NOT in heaven – but in the WORLDR" correct , not in the world, but in the prince's kingdom, the whole of earth is his kingdom, and the prince loves sinning and thus promotes sinning. DO you agree with this idea of the prince loving sinning? Hence defined as an opposing elohiym power? D"Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
(yester ra) – you refuse to even look at the real definition or meaning of the Hebrew conceptR" How is this any different to my view, that RA is the fruit of sinning? D" NOTHING FORCES GOD TO MOVE – the beast was removed from God’s heavenR" OK so Newtons third law doesn't apply, there was an opposing elohiym power in heaven, war broke out, and God eject it to earth, but nothing forces God to move, not even creatures who sin. I pity your sense of physics and the free will of creatures choosing to sin. If living creatures are partnered to God so they are living, and one creature decided to sin, how it is God does not move? You speak so irrationally at times, I could laugh...so your daughter slaps you in the face, and Dave the parent feels nothing and nothing moves in Dave the Parent. D" YES – God separated the Light from the Darkness – absolutely agreeR" You goofed, God moved, why did God tzimtzum, so separating Himself so light and dark exists. You just posted in big letters nothing forces God to move. What happens than when creatures sin than? Does GOD do nothing?' D"Y our point is that God tried to make a tov reality – but could not because your satan spoiled id all against God’s WillR" What? Can't you write more? God does not try to do anything. God can do anything and when God does it is positive for a reason, nothing opposes God in this sense. The opposing elohiym power did not spoil God's creation at all. But I get the impression Jesus created a Creation Week around the lonely rock of earth of this opposing elohiym power, for a reason, to settle the question of the SIN problem. The Creation was very good we are told. D" My point – YES – the Beast that devours appearedR" Now let's move to how this elohiym power came to be, it did not just appear.... what a silly notion... Since when is sinning something that just appears... Dave are you saying "a COSMIC STRUGGLE" can never be over sinning? RP" 1 Can sinning become a change of function ?D" NO – if you can sin – you were created with the ability to sin – definition of manR" wow. So we have no free will than? I thought to sin or not to sin is a reponse to our reasoning power, intellect, the yester tov or yester ra within our cognitive mind. RP" 2 Can sinning change your form?D" Ridicules – cows never become pigs – man never turns into a demon - angels never turn into demons – grandma never became an angel with wingsR" I didn't said change that....if GOD surrounds the creature and is partnered to us with coverings of love, our form beams with joy, light and a blue orgone energy that is dazzling. The HS with her wings carries you to unimagined planets and speaks all the time within us. God with man. When you sin, all that form disappears, your light fades, the orgone energy is decreased, you barely live, the HS shrinks deep inside you and you barely hear the still small voice of God. That is the form I am referring you. RP" 3 For sinning to exist at all, God would have to do something to allow sinning to exist.D" Correct – he gave man FREE WILL – the ability to chooseR" Yes, not just man, but all creatures have this ability to some extent. The highest intellectual creatures are the angels, cherub, with also free will. You do not consider this idea? Why is that? RP" R" I see, than how would a sinning creature sin than? impossible?D" Answer – by disobeying God’s commandmentsR" I thought you said these commandments are just for humans? N ow you suggest they are universal?The penalty for breaking any of those commandments is immediate eternal nonexistence. So explain to me how sinning at all can exist, even for a nanosecond? D" THERE IS NOT TWO OPPOSING GODS FACING OFF IN HEAVENR" Really? What is this war in heaven than? You agreed the opposing elohiym power is ejected from heaven to earth. Therefore once the opposing elohiym power opposed God directly in heaven? Do you agree? Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. I mean how plain can this be? You deny Scripture? The opposing elohiym power once opposed the Father directly in heaven, otherwise this would not be written in the Fathers commandments Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other opposing elohiym powers before me. DO you agree? Than the opposing elohiym power was ejected to a lonely rock called earth, dereft of all Godly powers, at 2 degrees Kelvin, the opposing elohiym power lived and crawled over earth with His sinning cheribums, with a kingdom that had nothing functional in it. The earth was unformed I suppose, but existed void and that is what happens when sinning reigns. DO you agree? Than God decided to create a paradise over this rock, to stage a sinless free will creature to witness against the sinning kingom this opposing elohiym power proposed. Great Controversy is now staged on earth. D" You teach – God tried to make a tov world – BUT COULDN’T – what an insult to the CreatorR" WHere do you get your fanciful ideas? Not from me., God was dealing with a SIN problem, no creature can force God to do anything against God's will, but God had a sinning problem to deal with? DO you agree God had a sinning problem to deal with, long before man even existed? D" Intellect has nothing to do with the Free Will choice to obey God or notR" I see, so what is free will Dave? To me free will is a creature morally conscious of their sinning and thus are judged their conscious because of this, ie the HS convicts us. SO do cherubs have free will? First do they sin. Yes the Ez 28 account says some cherubims decided to sin. DO they have a conscience, where the HS resides within them? Yes, Scripture records the angels fly with wings or coverings that are actually the wings of the HS, so the angels do not have wings of their own. Scripture also records the lying medium who promoted sinning humans to sin more, was using the powers of the MEDIUM to do the sinning influence of lying. Again shows us the HS as a medium is within cherubs as much as within humans. So yes cherubs have free will and can sin, or repent, or decided to be live the most High and become an opposing elohiym power, because they love sinning. D"Y ou say beautiful angels of spirit can change into gross looking biological creaturesR" Who says they can? Not me. You are using the precepts of men to imagine what cherubs look like. They look like man, function like men, eat manna like man once did, worship God like man can, etc, etc. D" Sorry – Gen 1 = man (Humanoid) – before Gen 2 man (Human Being) = 100% Torah Total agreement with the fossil recordR" There are other explanations for these humanoid people, that does not require such thinking. D" So – who else sent the 10 plagues upon the Egyptians?R" Hmm? Not sure, I have a similar problem with the 7 last plagues of God in Rev. The first plague seems like a COVID virus, sent by God or sent by the opposing elohiym power? I am also troubled by this Hab 1:5 ¶ Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvellously: for I will work a work in your days, which ye will not believe, though it be told you. 6 For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, .... SO Jesus allows the anti-Christ powers to do it's work You ask hard questions, and stumble into confusion too often, I don't have all the answers... D" Are you suggesting it was your satan that liberated the Jews from Egypt?
You pray to the wrong godR" OH so now you agree this opposing elohiym power is a god you can pray to? My understanding is GOD rescued the chosen people from this opposing elohiym power. Not only did Hebrews get rescued but so did many believing Egyptians. Your question is God allowed to remove the life from people living under probation? Of course God can. This does not mean God violates His own commands. You read into this what you like, Gods strange act. D "Are you suggesting it was your satan that gave the Promised land as heritance?
You pray to the wrong godR" OH so now you agree this opposing elohiym power is a god you can pray to? My understanding is GOD rescued the chosen people from this opposing elohiym power. D "So who sent the plagues onto Egypt – including the angel of death?R" I would imagine God rescued man from the opposing elohiym power. DO you agree with this idea? D"I f Day 7 happened on Day 7 then the Sabbath existed before Day 7 – is this your question?R" It seems silly to you, because you see Creation the only Creation God has ever done? Not so according to my view. War in heaven, elected to earth? Explain how during this one and only Creation can there be a bustle in heaven? How is this even possible with cherubs fighting each other? to cause an ejection to earth? Is this why you like a billion years in day one and day 2 to fit all this in? To me it suggests a war long before our Creation took place, some other Creation time. D" Anything that draws you away from God toward (yester ra)
None of this requires an angel named satanR" YOu just posted this opposing elohiym power is a prince (sar) on his own kingdom. A prince implies a ruler ruling over us, making sure we subjects are sinning like the prince sins. D" OK – I give in You are correct – God does not want anyone to choose WORLD over a spirituals relationship with Him I will agree to this You are correct – God does not want you to world anything of this world over Him I will agree to this You are correct – God does not want you to bow to the serpent – or devils – or satanas I agree with you - - because God is a jealous God – Royal LawR" Now I will address my attention to whom this elohiym power is, and where it came from? It did not suddenly appear from under the Father's left hand. SInning powers do not suddenly appear. Next question" DO you agree this elohiym power is a sinning power than promotes sinning? D" Then why do you call them god – and say things like I have two gods and two kingsR" Because sometimes I speak to laypeople, I use laypeople terms and child like reasoning they understand.
If I used an elohiym power that opposes the true elohiym power in heaven, would they understand? not likely D" As if they were equal in any wayR" who says they are equal? one eloihym power sins and other elohiym power does not sin. D" Then why do you give them the power to change God’s Plan against God’s WillR" It only seems that way, because for sinning to exist God has to make changes for sinning to exist, even for a probation time. SHalom
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Post by Dave on Jun 16, 2022 18:48:37 GMT -5
D"there are NOT 2 opposing gods struggling against one another in heaven – a COSMIC STRUGGLE Ellen White says R" Who says there have to be always in heaven? You, Ellen White, and the SDA
(yester ra) – you refuse to even look at the real definition or meaning of the Hebrew concept R" How is this any different to my view, that RA is the fruit of sinning? I posted the Jewish Encyclopedia article about it – you blew it off as made up Jews error
D"NOTHING FORCES GOD TO MOVE – the beast was removed from God’s heaven R" OK so Newtons third law doesn't apply THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOT – TWO OPPOSING FORCES CAUSING THE OTHER TO RESPOND As in Equal and Opposite reaction – THERE IS NOTHING EQUAL between God and your satan demon
D"Your point is that God tried to make a tov reality – but could not because your satan spoiled id all against God’s Will R" What? Can't you write more? God does not try to do anything. God can do anything and when God does it is positive for a reason, nothing opposes God in this sense. OK then you teach God did make a tov world – then your satan spoiled it all against God Will
D"My point – YES – the Beast that devours appeared R" Now let's move to how this elohiym power came to be, it did not just appear.... what a silly notion... You can argue against God’s word if you want to – I accept the scripture written by Gnostic John
RP" 1 Can sinning become a change of function ? D" NO – if you can sin – you were created with the ability to sin – definition of man R" wow. So we have no free will than? ROBERT – YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO BE ALIVE Grow up or I will just delete your post
RP" 2 Can sinning change your form? D" Ridicules – cows never become pigs – man never turns into a demon - angels never turn into demons – grandma never became an angel with wings R" I didn't said change that.... You teach that 1/3rd of all the angels changed their form and function You teach that angels changed into ugly biological creatures You teach that angels that were created to serve and praise – change they function into evil and hate
RP" R" I see, than how would a sinning creature sin than? impossible? D" Answer – by disobeying God’s commandments R" I thought you said these commandments are just for humans? Now you suggest they are universal? God gave the animals – the beast – only two commandments Go forth be fruitful and multiply And reproduce after their own kind
D"THERE IS NOT TWO OPPOSING GODS FACING OFF IN HEAVEN R" Really? What is this war in heaven than?
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: I mean how plain can this be? You deny Scripture? Please make up your mind and present a consistent theology
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: I mean how plain can this be? You deny Scripture? No I don’t – your cosmic struggle between two gods ended as soon as it began Gen 1:1 – creation Gen 1:2 – choshek Gen 1:3 – the Light – that is tov
Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other opposing elohiym powers before me. DO you agree? YES – this is the problem tween us – you have a cosmic struggle between two gods Jews – Gnostics – Christians do NOT – because there is only One True God
D"You teach – God tried to make a tov world – BUT COULDN’T – what an insult to the Creator R" WHere do you get your fanciful ideas? Not from me., THIS IS ABSOLTUELY YOUR TEACHING HERE – your proof – God does it for the New Heaven and Earth – proof God did it in the past – your teaching and your logic
D"Intellect has nothing to do with the Free Will choice to obey God or not R" I see, so what is free will Dave? The ability to choose God or WORLD - nothing more - nothing less The ability yo obey God or NOT
D"Sorry – Gen 1 = man (Humanoid) – before Gen 2 man (Human Being) = 100% Torah Total agreement with the fossil record R" There are other explanations for these humanoid people, that does not require such thinking. Please explain the empirical evidence to the world -
D"So – who else sent the 10 plagues upon the Egyptians? R" Hmm? Not sure, I have a similar problem with the 7 last plagues of God in Rev. The first plague seems like a COVID virus, sent by God or sent by the opposing elohiym power? I am also troubled by this BOOM - Stop denying scripture and realized God is omnipotent Your / The – Feel Good only message is an empty message
6 For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, .... SO Jesus allows the anti-Christ powers to do it's work
Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. STOP twisting scripture into your “Feel Good” version- that requires a god of ra
You ask hard questions, and stumble into confusion too often, I don't have all the answers... Not hard at all – with Jewish theology You only think it hard or confusion because you have a different religion than Jewish theology – you replace everything Jewish with Catholic Catharism
D"Are you suggesting it was your satan that liberated the Jews from Egypt? You pray to the wrong god R" OH so now you agree this opposing elohiym power is a god you can pray to? YES – my wife once prayed to the Pope – in days past people prayed to Caesar – not that long ago the Japanese prayed to Emperor Ito YES – many men get wrapped up in the worship of money - mammon YES – many men get wrapped up in the worship of power and fame YES – some men turn to other prophets for enlightenment outside of the Torah You can pray to a tree stump if you want to - if you think it will help
1830s the advent math of Islaim Bahai and the SDA appeared on the planet at the same moment 1830s – the angel Mormo gave Joseph Smith and entirely New Testament 1850s – both Ellen White and Charles Russell preach the Second Coming
Your question is God allowed to remove the life from people living under probation? Of course God can. This does not mean God violates His own commands. You read into this what you like, Gods strange act. Exo 20:13 Thou shalt not kill. – your royal law
Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. EXCEPT THE PROMIDED LAND – that God gave to Abraham
D"Are you suggesting it was your satan that gave the Promised land as heritance? You pray to the wrong god
D"So who sent the plagues onto Egypt – including the angel of death? R" I would imagine God rescued man from the opposing elohiym power. DO you agree with this idea? Not a direct answer to a direct question – avoid – evade – change the question into something different
D"Anything that draws you away from God toward (yester ra) None of this requires an angel named satan R" YOu just posted this opposing elohiym power is a prince (sar) on his own kingdom. A prince implies a ruler ruling over us, making sure we subjects are sinning like the prince sins.
Maybe you are possessed by satan – the rest of us are not The rest of us live in the world – and it is a hard life because of Gen 3:15 Yes the beast is the ‘sar’ of this world – and this world did not create you – it cannot save you – and it will not be your judge later
Now I will address my attention to whom this elohiym power is, and where it came from? It did not suddenly appear from under the Father's left hand. You can deny scripture if you want to – twist scripture into something that will support your doctrine I just accept scripture as it is written – inspired word of God and all
D"Then why do you call them god – and say things like I have two gods and two kings R" Because sometimes I speak to laypeople, I use laypeople terms and child like reasoning they understand.
There is NOTHING CHILDLIKE to teach two gods There is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD – both Jews and Christian teach this to their children The teaching of a pantheon of multiple gods - is 100% pagan
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Post by Dillon on Jun 17, 2022 10:23:03 GMT -5
D"Then why do you call them god – and say things like I have two gods and two kings R" Because sometimes I speak to laypeople, I use laypeople terms and child like reasoning they understand.
There is NOTHING CHILDLIKE to teach two gods There is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD – both Jews and Christian teach this to their children
Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.
Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
D"Then why do you call them god – and say things like I have two gods and two kings R" Because sometimes I speak to laypeople, I use laypeople terms and child like reasoning they understand. The teaching of a pantheon of multiple gods - is 100% pagan
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2022 16:32:22 GMT -5
First of all Dillon and Dave, you have to understand there are two common words in Hebrew about God, elohiym (which has Hebrew grammar plural case, and el( which is hebrew grammar singular case)
Dave assumes both of these words mean the same. They don't.
In the OT we have this in one passage
Job 40:1 ¶ Moreover the LORD "YHWH" answered Job, and said, 2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty "SHADDAY" instruct him? he that reproveth God "ELOAH", let him answer it.
There are three descriptors of GOD here
YHWH, Shadday and ELOAH.
We are also told this in the OT
Ps 2:1 ¶ Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, 3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
"their" not "singular - his"
There are powers that wish to break cords with God (elohiym - plural term)
In the ten commandments is listed this command
Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
This is describing some other opposing elohiym power coming before the Father's face.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
The Father laughs at the opposing elohiym power.
5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. 6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 ¶ I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
The Father declares I will allow my Son to be born as a human, and as my King over the humans on earth. It's poetry, David is termed a Son of the Most High, with similes to the divine Son of God, ....
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
The son comes with a rod of iron.
Re 12:4 ... the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
But the opposing elohiym power wants to destroy the holy child.
10 ¶ Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. 11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him. (KJV)
The Father tells us to kiss His Son and put their trust in Him.
After Jesus is born as a human, we have a renaming of the elohiym powers.
Eph 3:14 ¶ For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
Instead of eloah now we have Father Instead of Shadday now we have HS Instead of YHWH now we have Jesus Christ
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven .. is re-named,
Jesus is able to continue the family love for eternity. In the OT elohiym is not described as a family, in the NT elohiym is described as a family.
Dave agreed with me there is an opposing elohiym power on earth, the shedim, also termed devils,, serpent .
D"There is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD – both Jews and Christian teach this to their children The teaching of a pantheon of multiple gods - is 100% pagan
Notice he says one true GOD, not a multiple gods.
If Dave has three expressions of one father, how many multiples do you have ? three
But they are of the same Being. So? How is this any different to my view? Three personalities of love within one love.
Adam and Eve were not two beings, they were two personalities of love from a single being. Eve was a clone of Adam but not an expression of Adam as her loving style was different to Adam's style of loving. Yet Dave sees no problem, with a masculine Father expressing a feminine HS and this is not multiple expressions or multiple gods? Boy its a word game play isn't it?
How can a gender male express gender female, like the gays like to think they can, does the hormones really dictate who and how you love? I don't think so.
SO you are not making two expressions of the Father if one is masculine and the other feminine. You are making multiples...
If you read Scripture it says the two become one flesh.
Ge 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
But a man and a woman are of the same flesh, so what is the writing for? Written for mockers who mock Scripture when it says the two become one in marriage. The two lovers become one in elohiym power.
Or in Hebrew one el + one el = One elohiym power.
Can you make power with a cathode only? No Can you make power with a anode only? No Can you make power with a collective solution only? No
Funny you require all three components to make love flow, and it always flows from one spring.
In Abrams day you could only visit the family only via the Adon, Abram The wife and child had to enter and exit via His door. The tent had one entrance, and the man sat there.
The Adon fed the visitors and they ate.
Ge 18:5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread,
Abram does this, as He is the Adon (LORD).
Ge 18:6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.
And Sarah would have asked others for help, and the whole of the community would be involved in the meal
But Abram only gets the credit to serve the meal.
The rest of the family remains behind the inner vale second curtain door.
And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him.
That is how Hebrew functions. One flow, One Spring. But a community or family effort.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jun 17, 2022 22:31:13 GMT -5
Job 40:1 ¶ Moreover the LORD "YHWH" answered Job, and said, 2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty "SHADDAY" instruct him? he that reproveth God "ELOAH", let him answer it. There are three descriptors of GOD here YHWH, Shadday and ELOAH.Father, Son, and Holy SpiritThe Father that no man can see The Right hand of God = the hand of instruction /and salvation – Male – Christ – the image of God The Left hand of God = the hand of mystery and judgment – female – The Holy Spirit – the Spirit of God TRINITYD"There is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD – both Jews and Christian teach this to their children The teaching of a pantheon of multiple gods - is 100% pagan Notice he says one true GOD, not a multiple gods.ABSOLUTELY CORRECT - ONE TRUE GOD – Not multiple godsIsa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2022 17:49:21 GMT -5
You make mention of trinity.... the Catholics use the term to mean three in one.... how can Dave use the term when you have one Father in three expressions, the three expressions are already one, so your use of trinity is absurd.
You also make the Father express masculine and feminine, that my friend becomes a multiple of something....so you are promoting something you hate, multiple gods...
My understanding which you failed to comment on is the three become one flesh, just as the two become one flesh in marriage. How is it you use the term trinity to mean something you invent.
When your heart cells decided to work as one cellular machine, they all agree to obey the laws of the heart, and lose their individual free will. Hence there is nothing multiply about the heart cells, they are truly one cellular machine.
Multiple heart cells is termed cancer and attacked .
Your thinking about my view is all wrong. And your view, makes no sense. Your father has no son, so its a act of role playing, a pretending...really no one and only son at all... And you have no man made in God's image, if there is no concept of family love within God already.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Jun 19, 2022 7:22:44 GMT -5
You make mention of trinity.... the Catholics use the term to mean three in one.... how can Dave use the term when you have one Father in three expressions, the three expressions are already one, so your use of trinity is absurd. You also make the Father express masculine and feminine, that my friend becomes a multiple of something....so you are promoting something you hate, multiple gods...
One Last Time before I hang up on you I so tire of your constant misrepresentation of me and others – it is a false witness – and you love it
There is only One True God He is beyond Robert’s understanding – He is beyond Robert’s comprehension Robert cannot see the FATHER – or Robert will die – no man can see the FATHER
But – Robert can experience the image of God – Christ This is not a new and different God – it is the Right hand of God Look down at your Right Hand – prove to me it is a different person than you
But Robert can experience the Spirt of God – The Holy Spirit This is not a new and different God – it is the Left hand of God Look down at your Left hand – prove to me it is a different person than you
My understanding which you failed to comment on is the three become one flesh, just as the two become one flesh in marriage. GOD IS NOT BIOLOGY – all you preach is world
How is it you use the term trinity to mean something you invent. It is just a word – word man – word game man Let’s call it Peanut Butter – or pickle – or thesfthegfs – does the name matter - NO
And your view, makes no sense. Your father has no son, so its a act of role playing, a pretending...really no one and only son at all...
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Why do you reject the NT – is it because it was written by Gnostic Paul
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God. Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Why do you reject the NT – it it because it was written by Gnostic John
Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. Exo 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock: Exo 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: The Glory of God – the Holy Spirit – this is not a new and different god – it is the Glory of God Exo 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen. – this is not a new and different god - it is only IMAGE OF GOD seen by Moses
Will you now reject the Torah because Moses is a Gnostic?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 17:54:27 GMT -5
OK I will not speak more on this theme. Your choice to believe what you like.
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of Gnosis falsely so called: 21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith.
Why would Gnostic Paul write so badly about Gnosis? Something is wrong with your idea of Paul?
How do you know Paul was a Gnostic? Just because some letters of Paul survive that seem to have Gnostic material in them? How do you know they were written by Paul?
I mean if the White estate published some letters written by Mrs White that seemed contrary to everything else she wrote about, "Houston we have a problem".
I would reject the latter writings, as a deception. I have a 1914 Bible readings for the Home Circle, a very old SDA published book at home, I treasure but it has Jesuit writings in it even in those days, on page 433 it has a foot note that "Jesus died in sinful flesh". I reject this message, yet SDA seem fine with it. Never once did Mrs White say Jesus died in sinful flesh. She quotes the Scripture" Jesus died in the likeness of sinful flesh, she quotes only the KJV, never correcting the translation.
We have a SDA sect that rejects all published books of Ellen White, except for the 1870 editions, Now that is an extreme sect. But I ran into them once in 1990.
The first thing one must do is compare latter writings against the Moses teachings. Otherwise we can be deceived.
SHalom
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