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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2022 4:08:15 GMT -5
I spent 3 hours typing a very good detailed account to answer your question, and you did not discuss not a single point within my discussion. Did you read my post at all? No evidence of this.
D"So who is this destroyer, the YHWH?
Roberts argument – anyone opposing man is opposing God – anyone who murders is a sinner and is opposing God – YHWY is a sinner and opposes Himself
R" I posed this as a question, not a statement I support. You didn't read the Ellen White details on the end of the post.
D"So who is this destroyer, the YHWH?
Roberts argument – anyone opposing man is opposing God – anyone who murders is a sinner and is opposing God – YHWY is a sinner and opposes Himself
R" Again I do not support this either.
You obviously do not read my posts carefully, in too much a hurry to mock arn't you?
Can't miss the end, it's a huge pile of sentences
When the angel of mercy folds her wings and departs Satan will do the evil deeds he has long wished to do. Storm and tempest, war and bloodshed—in these things he delights, and thus he gathers in his harvest
My two pennies in this complex question of yours is that my TOV only God as you call my God does not transgress His laws, and so any destroying comes from the opposer, once God allows him full uncontrolled sway over the human. Otherwise the two elohiym powers are locked in conflict, as the war in heaven now continues on earth. You ignore this verse as well.
And this is found in the torah too, does the medium of the HS destroy or does the HS medium allow another power to destroy?
1Ki 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.
The medium a function from God, allows Satan to enter the medium and destroy as a lying medium.
Why can't Satan destroy on his own? Because as Dave point out Satan is no creator and has no powers. And the sin problem is all controlled by God to begin with. Does this mean God is a destroyer, after all God is functionally allowing a medium to work for good or evil?
Just as man engineered the gun, for good or evil does not make the engineers guilty of evil when evil people kill with the gun.
A medium does not take active sides in the function, each elohiym power uses the medium for its purposes. That is why 1Kings is written as a lying medium, not identifying the agent who does this specifically. The cherub who sinned answers the blanks, a verse Dave ignores to add to the missing pieces of the story.
D"Which one of us denies the spirit? Be honest with yourself at least
R" What are you asking? You say speaking in tongues publicly is a certain sign you have the spirit, whatever that term means, so we are witnessing to others what the languages of heaven are like? How often do you speak in tongues?
I think people who speak glossolalia are archon possessed and have the spirit of Satan in them, deceived and controlled by the enemy of God.
glossolalia does not follow normal grammar rules of known languages, as all languages on earth follow.
John says to test the spirits to make sure we have the true HS and not the spirit of antichrist.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jun 10, 2022 5:30:57 GMT -5
Roberts argument – anyone opposing man is opposing God – anyone who murders is a sinner and is opposing God – YHWY is a sinner and opposes Himself R" I posed this as a question, not a statement I support.
1- YOU are not honest – this has always been your come back – any one opposing man is opposing God So who is this destroyer, the YHWH? 2- now you realize that all your Feel Good God can do no hurt is just error My two pennies in this complex question of yours is that my TOV only God as you call my God does not transgress His laws, God murders many
and so any destroying comes from the opposer, So who is this destroyer, the YHWH?
Correct – you teach God is satan and opposes himself
this complex question of yours What is complex - Why do you and Ellen White teach it is a sin to OBEY GOD OR - please prove to me that your satan disobeys God
I have been asking the same question for 3 years
D"Which one of us denies the spirit? Be honest with yourself at least
R" What are you asking? You say speaking in tongues publicly is a certain sign you have the spirit, whatever that term means, so we are witnessing to others what the languages of heaven are like? How often do you speak in tongues?
What a bunch of nonsense Man is spirit – fully formed before physical birth Spirit is created eternal Man is spirit – having a physical souljourn Upon mortal death – the spirit of man returns to God The first death is of the flesh - and has nothing to do with spirit The second death is death of spirit and has nothing to do with the flesh
You are on record here denying everything I believe and teach The foundation of Judaism – From God we came and to God we retun You are on record here denying this very basic Jewish teaching
You and Ellen White teach man is only biology - procreated by our biological parents Death is the end - you cease to exist But later - you are resurreted again in the flesh - to be punished or saved in the flesh
D"Which one of us denies the spirit? Be honest with yourself at least
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Post by Dave on Jun 10, 2022 7:33:33 GMT -5
the two elohiym powers are locked in conflict, as the war in heaven now continues on earth. You ignore this verse as well. FALSE TEACHING
THERE ARE NOT TWO GODS WARING AGAINST EACH OTHER
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THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUE GOD WHO IS ABSOLUTE – ANY TEACHING OTHERWISE IS REJECTEDthe war continues on earthGen 3:15 I will put animosity between you and the woman—between your seed and her seed. Gen 3:17 Then to the man He said, “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate of the tree which I commanded you, saying, ‘You must not eat of it’: Cursed is the ground because of you—with pain will you eat of it all the days of your life. Gen 3:18 Thorns and thistles will sprout for you. You will eat the plants of the field, Gen 3:19 By the sweat of your brow will you eat food, until you return to the ground, since from it were you taken. For you are dust, and to dust will you return.” The Contest is between man vrs WORLD – man vrs archon, our real struggelWritten into scripture by God - established by God - put in motion by God - to test man to see if he will keep the mitzvah or not - Judaism 101I totally reject your Ezk 28 satan doctrineNo created being ever changed its own form and function against God’s Will and then changed God’s creation against God’s WillCol 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created—in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen, whether thrones or angelic powers or rulers or authorities. All was created through Him and for Him. Christ is the Creator – Because He is the God of Gen 1:1 All was created through Him and for Him.Joh 1:3 All things were made through Him, and apart from Him nothing was made that has come into being. - Judaism 101
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2022 16:13:07 GMT -5
You not only reject Ezekiel 28
You also reject the commandments of the Father too, written before mankind even existed, because the Sabbath commandment is written there to, telling us the commandment was written before Creation week.
Notice the commandment you reject:
Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other elohiym powers before me.
SO this Moses torah plainly tells us GOD does not want humans bowing down to other elohiym powers. What other elohiym powers, and they must have existed before the Sabbath commandment existed.
Well the two trees created in the garden tell you who this other elohiym power is, leader was only allowed to visit his own tree, no where else, and that is all GOD allowed his presence to be, as God (the true elohiym power) created a paradise for HIS TREE of living, and thus His paradise spread all over the earth, and was a simile under God's tree, the tree of life. Thus Adam had a choice as to which elohiym power he could choose to serve. ( that is what free will means a choice of powers to serve)
But you ignore this Moses torah, and thus you invent your own teachings.
Please Dave how about explaining your logic
D"No created being ever changed its own form and function against God’s Will
Explain this?
Why can't a free will creature sin , and thus by sinning , God's glory over him goes away, and his form changes from bright to dull, and his function changes from serving God to serving self.
Please explain why my logic is not correct. Or is it correct?
D"and then changed God’s creation against God’s Will
R" A creature has no divine powers, of it's own, I know that and you also know that, so stop writing stuff that makes no sense.... why did our world fall with RA? Because Adam sinned and God cursed our world. God nothing to do with any creature agent of sin, but God choose to curse His creation because Adam sinned, because sinning has consequence's. Is this idea correct or not correct? Discuss this please.
D"The Contest is between man vrs WORLD – man vrs archon, our real struggel
R" Please explain this sentence with more details
Contest between man verses man's creation? Makes no sense. In mans creation was a tree, a simile of a elohiym power, called GOD, so a creation is a kingdom and man is a servant of the king who rules His kingdom. Why do you ignore all this? But in the creation were two trees thus showing there were two elohiym powers, who opposed each other, or were opponents (Jeff's words).
The other elohiym power had a creation too, called hell (a special place on earth) where darkness is and terrible cold, but it was covered over with God's creation and God's kingdom for man, with His tree. God placed another tree for this other elohiym power in his kingdom only for a while, to test the loyalty of Adam, but after 33 years of loyalty Eve sinned and managed to get her husband to sin also, thus allowing this other elohiym power to rule over Adam and Eve.
Does Dave allude to this idea? a little and it's confusing "man vrs archon",
Please discuss, why you do not embrace all of my idea, yet you have some...
Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Who is this elohiym power opposing God in Eden than, as it can't be Adam and Eve. The commandments also have Sabbath, so it's written before Creation Week.
So do you also reject this commandment also?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jun 10, 2022 20:11:49 GMT -5
Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other elohiym powers before me. SO this Moses torah plainly tells us GOD does not want humans bowing down to other elohiym powers. What other elohiym powers, and they must have existed before the Sabbath commandment existed.
WOW – proof you do not know your ahl/OT There are 33 other gods mentioned by name within scripture itself – Baal, Molech, Dogon, etc All of these are created beings – created for their purpose All of these are Jewish shedim – created creatures – that pretend to be gods Caesar is a man – a created creature – pretending to be a god (Ezk 28) All things of this world
The agl/NT adds mammon to this list Money – wealth – power – or fame – all the things of this world
NO WHERE DOES SCRIPTURE TELL US – there are two supreme gods – one for tov and one for ra SCRIPTUR IS CLEAR – there is only One True God
Well the two trees created in the garden tell you who this other elohiym power is, leader was only allowed to visit his own tree, no where else, and that is all GOD allowed his presence to be, as God (the true elohiym power) created a paradise for HIS TREE of living, and thus His paradise spread all over the earth, and was a simile under God's tree, the tree of life.
IF EDEN was the entire earth – where did Eden go? Jews teach it still exist – as the place of rest for the faithful Christians teach that the 7th Day is ongoing and is still open to the faithful
Thus Adam had a choice as to which elohiym power he could choose to serve. ( that is what free will means a choice of powers to serve) God or his own desires (yester ra)
But you ignore this Moses torah, and thus you invent your own teachings. You invent an entirely new god
Please Dave how about explaining your logic D"No created being ever changed its own form and function against God’s Will Explain this?
Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
God made everything – BY HIM – FOR HIM even the archon / shedim / Jinn / demons
Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Please explain why my logic is not correct. Or is it correct? Why can't a free will creature sin , and thus by sinning Man does this every day – does this make man a false-god – or a supreme being od evil
D"and then changed God’s creation against God’s Will R" A creature has no divine powers, of it's own, I know that and you also know that, so stop writing stuff that makes no sense.... why did our world fall with RA? Because Adam sinned and God cursed our world. God nothing to do with any creature agent of sin,
Finally you admit it – Gen 3 has nothing to do with another god opposing God It is just Eve and her own desires and lust for WORLD
but God choose to curse His creation because Adam sinned, The feminine was first – sin originated from the feminine YES – your feel good God of tov only – cursed the world - God established Gen 3:15
because sinning has consequence's. YES IT DOES – God is a Conservative Republican – you have rights – Free Will If you want to live in the gutter – if you choose to be homeless – if you choose to be the beggar – the drug addict – the mean bully – ITS YOUR CHOICE
It is not my job to stop you – it is not my government’s job to stop you – and God will not stop you You have rights – because of the GRACE of God – you have the right to choose
Is this idea correct or not correct? Discuss this please. EASY – it is obvious to all - your choices have consequence's Jesus Christ came to prove LIFE LIVES – there is a real and viable afterlife in the presence of God
LIFE LIVES = One day – man will meet his maker - your choices yesterday, today, and tomorrow have consequence's
Judaism 101 From the beginning – Rosh Hannah YOM KIPPUR – anything you need to atone for? Take an extra hr to consider (25hr day) God has and dose TABERNACLE with man (available here to you – on your level) Salvation is ONLY by the Lord – Purim Passover, Passover, Passover And 50 days later – Pentecost – the Harvest – which is a celebration of the moment when the Torah came down from the mountain to man
LIFE LIVES = One day – man will meet his maker - your choices yesterday, today, and tomorrow have consequence's
The Psychology of Understanding (2006) Short, simple, straight to the point and perhaps the most profound revelation of mortality. We are all going to die sooner or later. So then, the next most important question becomes - Then what? - is there something more? The question for me is not whether there is a God and an afterlife! The question, for me as a man, is if there is a God and an afterlife, and I do eventually meet my maker; will I be able to look Him straight in the eye and shake His hand, or will I be ashamed and embarrassed for who I really am?
D"The Contest is between man vrs WORLD – man vrs archon, our real struggel R" Please explain this sentence with more details Does Dave allude to this idea? a little and it's confusing "man vrs archon",
Gen 3:15 I will put animosity between you and the woman—between (the serpent’s) seed and her seed. You argue angel cannot have offspring – I agree with you The archon is an entirely different race of beings In-between angel and man – not fully angelic – not fully animal This gives them strange powers / abilities that man lacks
They can appear or disappear – they can manipulate this world – weather /rain /wind / disease / fertility / and even strength in battel
To the 99% - they appeared as other gods - They can appear or disappear – they can manipulate this world – weather /rain /wind / disease / fertility / and even strength in battel
But against the 1% - they are exposed as NOT the one true God – just imposters
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world:
No matter where you look – the gods of the 99% - even the pagans of ancient Australian history Or the gods of the Polynesians – the Philippines – Africa – the Americas - MesoAmerica – or IndoEurope
All of their pagan god stories all have their foundation in the shedim of King Solomon – the Greek Archon – The Islamic Jinn- or Christians demons – THE SERPENT RACE There is only one theology – and it all Judaism 101
Your neighbor is a UFO believer and rejects the church – WHY? Because the church has presented such man-made bull shit – it has lost its credibility as a source of truth Church has harmed the faith – as much as Darwin ever did
Actually attitude about the church = if there is other life in space – theologians would have to rethink their religions – it would harm the faith – prove the faith in error and therefore not credible
Isa 13:4 … the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle. Isa 13:5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even …
Gnostic John – the archon are ejected from earth at the flood – to the 7 visible heavenly bodies Authors always make this to be Venus, Mars, Saturn, the Sun, and Moon – etc etc Dave – Nebiru – is supposedly visible every 3600 years - cannot rule it out
Astronauts report things and are dismissed - The Nasa cover-up of the Clementine Mission photos is obvious THERE ARE STRUCTURES ON THE MOON – you are not allowed to see them These structures – MOVE and leave tracks – Oops
Absolutely the most provoking imagery from our solar system is the face on Mars - Cydonia Only 1 mission in that direction and we lost communication with it when it tried de-orbit
American Indian legend long before white man – they are from Venus – but ruined their planet, because the failed to live in harmony with it This is the entire bases for their religion – life in harmony with nature PS They also have only One Great Father – and a whole bunch of kachina spirits that have power of matter – weather / wind/ rain/ fertility / strength in battel
Azuni Navaho say – during the last great earth change – the SNAKE PEPOLE took them underground until it was over – for the survival of the tribe PS They also have only One Great Father – and a whole bunch of kachina spirits that have power of matter – weather / wind/ rain/ fertility / strength in battel
More and more leading scientist are going on the record with support for Intelligent Design And reject the church and Biblical Creationism – why? Because the church has presented such man-made bull shit – it has lost its credibility as a source of truth Church has harmed the faith – as much as Darwin ever did Biblical Creationism has harmed the faith – as much as Darwin ever did
No matter where you look – the gods of the 99% - even the pagans of our modern WORLD The system – the shadow governments – the larger conspiracy – the Omega Conspiracy – the secret cabal behind all of them everywhere =
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
“Just outside our field of vision, there are entities that are anything but human, and they have been manipulation this world from the outside for eons.” – David Ike
Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against Does not say satan Does not say Jewish satan – or Hebrew satan – or your Catholic satan
It says archon – principalities – demons – Jinn – shades – shedim – devils – satanas – etc etc etc
N-APF – Noun, Case: Accusative (direct object; motion toward; time: "how long"), Number: Plural Gender: Feminine
You get to play word games - try this one
The Beast is ENTROPY Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against motion toward; time: "how long" Time is the greatest entropy of them all – over time it all passes away – terminal – temporary Entropy – the lesson of the cycle of life – birth – growth – death and rebirth
Yom Kippur - Day of Atonement - you said it was the most important A day of reflection - is there anything I need to atone for A day of relfection - my behaviour - my works - my deeds - my mitzvah and my chata THE REVELATION = I am a filthy sinner - I am disobedient The only hope = salvation by the Lord and the Divine pardon granted to Jushua
IF you understood Korbats You would understand - that just going through the motions = practice Without true repentence - the yearly blood sacrifice at Passover means nothing
Christianity = basic Jewish theology = judaism 101
The Psychology of Understanding (2006) Short, simple, straight to the point and perhaps the most profound revelation of mortality. We are all going to die sooner or later. So then, the next most important question becomes - Then what? - is there something more? The question for me is not whether there is a God and an afterlife! The question, for me as a man, is if there is a God and an afterlife, and I do eventually meet my maker; will I be able to look Him straight in the eye and shake His hand, or will I be ashamed and embarrassed for who I really am?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2022 17:07:50 GMT -5
D" WOW – proof you do not know your ahl/OT There are 33 other gods mentioned by name within scripture itself – Baal, Molech, Dogon, etc All of these are created beings – created for their purpose All of these are Jewish shedim – created creatures – that pretend to be gods Caesar is a man – a created creature – pretending to be a god (Ezk 28)R" You just goofed and it shows you do not read properly a person's sentence. What other elohiym powers, and they must have existed before the Sabbath commandment existed.They had to have existed in the beginning.... Sabbath was made a command in the beginning, on day 7 of yom time. Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. These messengers (cherubs) would fit, they left their "arche" beginning, and "cherubs" were created long before Creation Week, thus before the Sabbath command. D" All of these are Jewish shedim – created creatures – that pretend to be godsR" Who says they pretend to be elohiym powers? Many of them were shut up in a prison part of earth, but many also are free to establish themselves as elohyim powers on earth under the chief leader, the Opposer. Not once do you use Scripture to tell me where and how were the shedim created, or whom are the shedim? The only creature I know of created before Sabbath command, way before the Eden time, according to Ezek 28 is the cherub, the verse you choose to ignore. D" Caesar is a man – a created creature – pretending to be a godR" The Ceasar is no pretender, you are so wrong. I watched a movie last night called "Silence" where two Jesuit Catholic priests go into Japan to make missionary work there, the Inquisitor hunts out this movement, and tortures and kills them, place your foot on the face of the SUN they say and all is well, you go free. Eventually the priest does his. They call them fallen priests and he lives in Japan allowed to make writings that denounce Catholics, and they have no powers to do anything. The Japanese emperor is no pretender of power. Neither was Caesar. Neither was Stalin. Neither was Hitler. Neither was Pal Pot. They do not pretend anything, they rule as rulers. D" NO WHERE DOES SCRIPTURE TELL US – there are two supreme gods – one for tov and one for ra SCRIPTUR IS CLEAR – there is only One True GodR" OK how come the commandment says differently, thou shalt not bow do to other elohiym powers? DO you deny Scripture? D" IF EDEN was the entire earth – where did Eden go? Jews teach it still exist – as the place of rest for the faithfulR" change theme, can't answer my question? Eden and the soil it needs (150m deep) is in heaven in Zion, awaiting to come back to the same exact spot, over the Dead Sea. Well the two trees created in the garden tell you who this other elohiym power is....? DO you agree? D"God or his own desires (yester ra)R" NO you deny Scripture. DId this tree speak to Eve first? the weaker vassal? Was there not a chief elohiym power under the tree waiting to deceive the woman so she could be ruled by the ruler of his kingdom, termed hell. ? D" You invent an entirely new godR" I am discovering the answer to the command Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other elohiym powers before me (the true elohiym power). DO you deny this command also? You are ignoring the elohiym power implied in this command? The command existed before Sabbath, before Eden. D" Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
God made everything – BY HIM – FOR HIM even the archon / shedim / Jinn / demonsR" Is that it Dave, what happen to your line upon line idea? SUre God created shedim. Shedim is not a creature name anyway because no Scripture shedim are created. But cherub are created. First cherub were sinless, than they became a sinning creature. Sure God created cherub sinless. God do not create sinning creatures right off.Your Gnostic writings are misleading you. shedim are functional descriptions of fallen cherubs, banished to earth as a prison in a place called hell. From the word breast, masculine providers of false doctrines and elohiym powers that mislead humans D" Man does this every day – does this make man a false-god R" It did for Caesar, and Cleopatra, and Hitler, and Stalin, and the Japanese Inquisitor in Silence? Why do you term these man made elohiym powers as false? What is false about them, in the movie Silence, nothing false about being beheaded, or in a pit dripping blood head down as you slowly die, or crucified to a cross so the cold ocean tide slowly kills you over 4 days? I see nothing false about their powers. D" Finally you admit it – Gen 3 has nothing to do with another god opposing GodR" Is this our friendship is for, so I can slip up and you can mock over your pride of being superior? Don't you read in Scripture the elohiym power tried to get Eve to sin and eat the fruit, thus becoming a slave to her new elohiym power. D" It is just Eve and her own desires and lust for WORLDR" No dave, Show me a verse about the world as a ruler? 1Ki 18:21 ¶ And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word. In the OT are two elohiym powers, and the verse says to follow one power or the other power, no mention of the world as a ruler. Mt 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; Who markets the world as several powers of rulers? The devil does? The chief shedim, the Opposer. D" The feminine was first – sin originated from the feminineR" NO, the king of a kingdom is masculine. Ro 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. Adam's sin caused the kingdom of Adam to change rulers not the servant in His kingdom. D" Jesus Christ came to prove LIFE LIVES – there is a real and viable afterlife in the presence of GodR" Show the verse that says Jesus died to prove life lives. And if you have immortal spirit already in you; you already have this after life, did you goof in your sentence here? Don't you follow your own theories of faith? D" Gen 3:15 I will put animosity between you and the woman—between (the serpent’s) seed and her seed. You argue angel cannot have offspring – I agree with you The archon is an entirely different race of beings In-between angel and man – not fully angelic – not fully animal This gives them strange powers / abilities that man lacksR" OK where does Scripture speak of God creating this half matter half spirit creature? this so called in between angel and man? D" To the 99% - they appeared as other gods R" OH so we do have other elohiym powers after all? Are you a double flipper flopper? But you have no verse were these creatures were created and how and why? easy look for a time that is in the beginning, before Eden etc. Try looking in Ezek 28 D" But against the 1% - they are exposed as NOT the one true God – just impostersR" What is imposter about them? They are these elohiym powers the command says not to bow down to. D"Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world:R" correct and where and when were they created? A verse please? But you ignore Ez 28 D" All of their pagan god stories all have their foundation in the shedim of King Solomon – the Greek Archon – The Islamic Jinn- or Christians demons – THE SERPENT RACER" Oh so the received Hebrew cannot explain their origin, you must seek other writings ? D" Your neighbor is a UFO believer and rejects the church – WHY? Because the church has presented such man-made bull shit – it has lost its credibility as a source of truthR The movie Silence has priests praying real hard without faith in their prayers, I pity the missionaries who died using their own human strength....God was silent to them. The Japs called them fallen priests. D" Actually attitude about the church = if there is other life in space – theologians would have to rethink their religions – it would harm the faith – prove the faith in error and therefore not credibleR" Why would it harm them? I support other kings on other worlds unfallen to sin. Again Ez 28 " D " Church has harmed the faith – as much as Darwin ever did Biblical Creationism has harmed the faith – as much as Darwin ever didR" How so? D" Just outside our field of vision, there are entities that are anything but human, and they have been manipulation this world from the outside for eons.” – David Ike
R" Not once does Ike call them archons, yes these are these elohiym powers, sinning cherubims. You misquote and misuse Ike D" Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against Does not say satan Does not say Jewish satan – or Hebrew satan – or your Catholic satan
It says archon R" It does NOT, it says " arche" the mean here is the "first or beginning powers" that decided to sin against God. Not once is this word term archons. There are 36 verses that use archons to mean rulers. Mt 9:34 But the Pharisees said, He casteth out devils through the prince "rulers" of the devils. Mt 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the "ruler" of the devils. SO Beelzebub is the chief ruler of the shedim. 01176. bwbz leb Ba`al Z@buwb, bah'-al zeb-oob' Search for 01176 in KJV from 1168 and 2070; Baal of (the) Fly; Baal-Zebub, a special deity of the Ekronites:--Baal-zebub. See Hebrew 01168 (Ba`al) See Hebrew 02070 (z@buwb) 2Ki 1:1 ¶ Then Moab rebelled against Israel after the death of Ahab. 2 And Ahaziah fell down through a lattice in his upper chamber that was in Samaria, and was sick: and he sent messengers, and said unto them, Go, enquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron whether I shall recover of this disease. 3 But the angel of the LORD said to Elijah the Tishbite, Arise, go up to meet the messengers of the king of Samaria, and say unto them, Is it not because there is not a God in Israel, that ye go to enquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron? 4 Now therefore thus saith the LORD, Thou shalt not come down from that bed on which thou art gone up, but shalt surely die. And Elijah departed. D" Without true repentence - the yearly blood sacrifice at Passover means nothingR" correct If you read the simile of Ez 28 you would find the cherubims sinned in the beginning. Rabbi Apple allude to this simile, but you ignore Rabbi from Australia and you ignore the Rabbi Ezekiel, in favour of Jewish rabbi who make no comments on this. Your choice. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jun 12, 2022 2:37:29 GMT -5
There are 33 other gods mentioned by name within scripture itself – Baal, Molech, Dogon, etc All of these are created beings – created for their purpose All of these are Jewish shedim – created creatures – that pretend to be gods Caesar is a man – a created creature – pretending to be a god (Ezk 28) R" You just goofed and it shows you do not read properly a person's sentence.
What other elohiym powers, and they must have existed before the Sabbath commandment existed. They had to have existed in the beginning.... Sabbath was made a command in the beginning, on day 7 of yom time. During the birth pains of creation itself – the dragon appearedRev 12:2 She is pregnant—crying out in birth pains, in agony to give birth. Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: a great fiery red dragon Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Gen 1:2 Now the earth was chaos and waste, darkness was on the surface of the deep, What other elohiym powers, and they must have existed before the Sabbath commandment existed. They had to have existed in the beginning....Agreed – now explain how this fits your Ezk 28 passage Eze 28:13 You were in Eden, the garden of God.
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Agreed – Gen 6 bane elohiym – held in heaven 4 – awaiting to be released again in Rev 9 The Book of Enoch – always included in Jewish theology – found in the Dead Sea – quoted 64 times in the agl/NTD"All of these are Jewish shedim – created creatures – that pretend to be gods R" Who says they pretend to be elohiym powers? (wiki) Beelzebub or Beelzebul is a name derived from a Philistine god, formerly worshipped in Ekron, and later adopted by some Abrahamic religions as a major demon. The name Beelzebub is associated with the Canaanite god Baal. In theological sources, predominantly Christian, Beelzebub is another name for Satan as. D"Caesar is a man – a created creature – pretending to be a god R" The Ceasar is no pretender, you are so wrong.WOW – Caesar is equal to the God of Gen 1:1 ABSOLUTE PAGAN RUBISH--------------- R" No dave, Show me a verse about the world as a ruler?1Ki 18:21 ¶ And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word. Beelzebub or Beelzebul is a name derived from a Philistine god, formerly worshipped in Ekron, and later adopted by some Abrahamic religions as a major demon. The name Beelzebub is associated with the Canaanite god Baal. In theological sources, predominantly Christian, Beelzebub is another name for Satan as. R" Who says they pretend to be elohiym powers?Just a moment ago – in this same post – you denied Baal even existed D"All of these are Jewish shedim – created creatures – that pretend to be godsIn the OT are two elohiym powers, and the verse says to follow one power or the other power, no mention of the world as a ruler. Word Game There are approximately 40 other gods mentioned within the ahl – 33 of them by name by nameJdg 2:1 Now the angel of Adonai came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and He said, “I brought you up out of Egypt and took you into the land which I swore to your fathers. I also said, ‘I will never break My covenant with you. Jdg 2:2 Now as for you, you must make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land. You must break down their altars.’ But you have not listened to My voice. What is this you have done? Jdg 2:3 Therefore I also said, ‘ I will not drive them out from before you, but they will be thorns in your sides, and their gods will be a snare to you.’” Mt 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; Who markets the world as several powers of rulers? The devil does? The chief shedim, the Opposer. WHAT – you just saidIn the OT are two elohiym powers, and the verse says to follow one power or the other power, no mention of the world as a ruler. D"Jesus Christ came to prove LIFE LIVES – there is a real and viable afterlife in the presence of God R" Show the verse that says Jesus died to prove life lives.
Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. – eternal life = Life Lives – DUH – even the jews teach this And if you have immortal spirit already in you; you already have this after life, (1) YES YOU DO = If you receive the Divine Pardon – First Fruits and join the heavly host around the throne of God along with Moses and Elijah Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (2) YES YOU DO = 2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Divine pardon - OR - you will spend your time in proportional Punishment ashamed for who you are (until you forget what you forget) – your earthly clothing stain with sin is exchanged for heavenly clothing – until you are purified before the First Resurrection Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. (3) YES YOU DO = Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Death of your immortal spirit – spiritual death – the Second DeathD" To the 99% - they appeared as other gods R" OH so we do have other elohiym powers after all?YES – DUH – all of them created beast – by God for God And God left them to be a thorn to Israel - deliberate – on purpose – God did itBut you have no verse were these creatures were created and how and why? easy look for a time that is in the beginning, before Eden etc. Try looking in Ezek 28Why would I look to an event that took place long after Eden The Beast appeared alongside creation right from the beginning Rev 12:1-5 + Gen 1:1-2D"But against the 1% - they are exposed as NOT the one true God – just imposters R" What is imposter about them? They are these elohiym powers the command says not to bow down to. DUH – because none of them are the One True GodD"Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: R" correct and where and when were they created? A verse please?Rev 12:1-5 + Gen 1:1-2D"All of their pagan god stories all have their foundation in the shedim of King Solomon – the Greek Archon – The Islamic Jinn- or Christians demons – THE SERPENT RACE R" Oh so the received Hebrew cannot explain their origin, you must seek other writings ? King Solomon is about as Hebrew as they come RobertD" Actually attitude about the church = if there is other life in space – theologians would have to rethink their religions – it would harm the faith – prove the faith in error and therefore not credible R" Why would it harm them? Have you lived your life under a rock – or are you just not well informed?" D " Church has harmed the faith – as much as Darwin ever did Biblical Creationism has harmed the faith – as much as Darwin ever did R" How so? Every line of empirical evidence all indicates the reality of Psa 19:2 + Rom 1:19 – Intelligent Design Supported by the fossil record Supported by the genetic record Supported by the geological record NOT CONSISTANT WITH DON PATTON – or the ICR – or Walter BrownSo many people are on-board with Intelligent DesignBut Robert will force them to believe nothing ever reproduced, ate, died, or rotted until Gen 3 Biblical Creationism has harmed the faith – as much as Darwin ever didD" Just outside our field of vision, there are entities that are anything but human, and they have been manipulation this world from the outside for eons.” – David Ike R" Not once does Ike call them archons WORD GAMEEph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against It says archon R" It does NOT, it says "arche" the mean here is the "first or beginning powers" that decided to sin against God. Not once is this word term archons. YES ROBERT - we played that word game before There are 36 verses that use archons to mean rulers. Mt 9:34 But the Pharisees said, He casteth out devils through the prince "rulers" of the devils. Mt 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the "ruler" of the devils. SO Beelzebub is the chief ruler of the shedim. Finally you agree – YES – I have been saying this since day 1This has always been my view – 100% King Solomon – quoted by Jesus But you claim all of King Solomon is error Search for 01176 in KJV from 1168 and 2070; Baal of (the) Fly; Baal-Zebub, a special deity of the Ekronites:--Baal-zebub. See Hebrew 01168 (Ba`al) DUH - Finally you agree – YES – I have been saying this since day 1 This has always been my viewBeelzebub = the child of an ARCH-ANGEL – who has offspring Beelzebub = in under the control of the Arch-angel Uriel Gnostic NHL – says the volunteer stood up to be the overseer to reign in the chaos Beelzebub = a semi-biological creature - that can appear or disappear – Beelzebub = has the ability to manipulate nature – weather / wind / rain / fertility / disease / strength in battel DUH - Finally you agree – YES – I have been saying this since day 1 This has always been my view100% Jewish demonology (shedim) 100% Islamic demonology (Jinn) Because it is 100% the demonology of Canaan / the Levant (Baal, Molech, etc) 100% the demonology of the First Century Christian / Messianic Jews (archon) Beelzebub – is NOT an angel – never was an angel The Beast just appeared along with creation Rev 12:1-5 The Beast appeared – and choshek was on the face of the deep Gen 1:2
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Post by Dave on Jun 12, 2022 2:47:40 GMT -5
D"But against the 1% - they are exposed as NOT the one true God – just imposters R" What is imposter about them? They are these elohiym powers the command says not to bow down to. DUH – because none of them are the One True God --------------
Personal responsibility – Free Will – we all make our own choices
If you are in the army and ordered to kill women and children – you are supposed to arrest your commanding officer – why – because deep inside you know it is wrong
If you are in a religious cult and the leader wants all your money and your daughter – you should know deep inside this is wrong
If you are a pagan and your god asked yo to sacrifice your child – your first born – you should know deep inside this is wrong
Rahab was a prostitute – in paganville - alongside the Nephilim (Rephiem) – but she knew deep inside she knew the One True God – she became saved and Jewish all in the same day
How Christian is that?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2022 4:43:03 GMT -5
D" Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: a great fiery red dragon
R" Brevity Dave again, always afraid to discuss his views in case I might mock him or worse you might discover your view makes no sense??
You state the dragon was already there. Yes correct. But man was not there, so your "There are 33 other gods mentioned by name within scripture itself – Baal, Molech, Dogon, etc" did not exist than....you goofed....no sorry I made a mistake, just ignore my discussion with you??
RP"What other elohiym powers, and they must have existed before the Sabbath commandment existed. They had to have existed in the beginning.... D" Agreed – R" What Dave agrees there were other elohiym powers in the beginning before Eden existed.....wow....
D"now explain how this fits your Ezk 28 passage R" It explains who these creatures are from "arche" the beginning, and who these rulers "Archons" of darkness are. They were sinless angels who used their free will to begin sinning and their chief leader Belzeebub, also known as the opposer, was the first to have sinned. There are no other creatures created before Creation Week, who specially sinned, thus defining themselves as other elohiym powers. Dave quotes wiki "(wiki) Beelzebub or Beelzebul is a name derived from a Philistine god, formerly worshipped in Ekron, and later adopted by some Abrahamic religions as a major demon. The name Beelzebub is associated with the Canaanite god Baal. In theological sources, predominantly Christian, Beelzebub is another name for Satanas. (but you change "Satan" to satanas) You have yet to provide a scholar that agrees Satan is different to Satanas, you are playing word games.
D"WOW – Caesar is equal to the God of Gen 1:1 R" typical of you, must everything be extreme. The term elohiym means powers from some creature, or powers from the Creator, obviously the amount of powers are infinitely different. DUH.
Just as a creature is no match to a Creator. DUH. But you say they pretend to be elohiym powers. I would say they do not pretend, they are as powerful as God allows them to be, and to humans they seem formidable.
D" There are approximately 40 other gods mentioned within the ahl – 33 of them by name by name R" None of these names existed in the Creation Week in Eden, the elohiym power was a serpent and he had one title and one name than....who cares if he markets himself with many names later on?
D"Jdg 2:3 Therefore I also said, ‘I will not drive them out from before you, but they will be thorns in your sides, and their gods will be a snare to you.’” R" Wrong time Dave, the other elohiym power opposing God during Creation Week was a single power, not 40 and not 33 other gods, but just one god, who could only talk from the tree God gave him as his talking place.
Do you agree with this?
D"WHAT – you just said In the OT are two elohiym powers, and the verse says to follow one power or the other power, no mention of the world as a ruler. R" COrrect, the devil markets himself to other people differently , he is crafty and sneeky. How many religions are there? thousands. How many religions does God have ? One. Maybe calls others from different folds, but one religion, called cross over, Hebrew. Why does Satan invent thousands of other religions? To clash words with words, make word games, word doctrines and market social clubs to confuse people.
D"(1) YES YOU DO R" Than if you do, why did you say Jesus came to prove life lives, if our life already lives within us? You goofed?
D" Divine pardon - OR - you will spend your time in proportional Punishment ashamed for who you are R" Scriptures for this ...... showing....proportional Punishment offering you a second chance to be saved?
D" Death of your immortal spirit – spiritual death – the Second Death R" How can an immortal spirit die? / oxymoron, word game, not immortal to begin with?
D" Why would I look to an event that took place long after Eden R" Who says Ezek 28 happened after Eden? The simile story parts happened long before Eden? Can't you see that?
D"The Beast appeared alongside creation right from the beginning Rev 12:1-5 + Gen 1:1-2 R" Your assumption, I place the war in heaven to another time and place trillions of years before Creation Week.
But you assume this Creation is all we have, all the angels were created during the same time as man was created.
Why do you assume this idea?
Can't your God create more than one Creation? Must be bored or something?
D"DUH – because none of them are the One True God R" Who cares, do you agree with me there are other elohiym powers? apart from the one true God?
D"King Solomon is about as Hebrew as they come Robert R" I see. You assume Solomon wrote about his shedim, yes I read the passages. DO you really think God would come to dwell in a temple made from wicked sinning creatures called shedim? What do you think God is?
I find these writings are rubbish. Sorry.
Dave posts a pile of links to " How would religion react if we discovered extra-terrestrial life?" OK and your discussion is?
No discussion?
I already told you we SDA support other unfallen kings of many unfallen worlds, earth the the only place that fell into sin, among the sinning angels banished here with humans. I is meant to be a witness judgment to a sin problem.
D"But Robert will force them to believe nothing ever reproduced, ate, died, or rotted until Gen 3 R" Brevity Dave again, so I get it, you think the animals died and decomposed after they were created during Creation? How silly you are. The animals lived forever during their Creation, like Adam was supposed to. All the animals were herbivores , including sharks, and spiders and snakes, etc. Nothing died, so all bacteria were free living. Only after Adam sinned, about 33 yrs later, (imagine spiders living for over 50 years, and bacteria living that long as well) did death come into the Creation, and many things gradually died.
RP" Not once does DAVID Ike call them archons D" WORD GAME R" Stop using Ick to support your theory than. Find somebody who does speak of Archons? Are there any out there?
D"Finally you agree – YES – I have been saying this since day 1 R" Beelzebub is the chief ruler of the shedim, a function given to the way the fallen cherubims behave these days.
Now we are different, because you ignore to add Ez 28 to whom the shedim are.
D"Beelzebub = the child of an ARCH-ANGEL – who has offspring R" sorry but Beelzebub, also known as Satan, cannot produce offspring.
D"Beelzebub = in under the control of the Arch-angel Uriel R" so says King Solomon forgery writings, I suspect.
D"DUH - Finally you agree – YES R" Just because I see the Hebrew word linking to NT does not mean all the rest is true. D"Beelzebub – is NOT an angel – never was an angel R" SO says Dave after you ignore Ezekiel 28.
Beelzebub is just a fancy name for Satan.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jun 12, 2022 10:36:45 GMT -5
D" Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: a great fiery red dragon R" Brevity Dave again, always afraid to discuss his views in case I might mock him or worse you might discover your view makes no sense??I quote scripture – it speaks for itself – you Can mock scripture if you want – your free Will ChoicePrecept upon preept, line upon lineBut man was not there, so your "There are 33 other gods mentioned by name within scripture itself – Baal, Molech, Dogon, etc" did not exist than....you goofed....no sorry I made a mistake, just ignore my discussion with you?? The Beast appears alongside of creation – a by-product of creation – inherent to creation Gen 1:2 I quote scripture – it speaks for itself – you Can mock scripture if you want – your free Will ChoiceRP"What other elohiym powers, and they must have existed before the Sabbath commandment existed. They had to have existed in the beginning.... D" Agreed –D"Jdg 2:3 Therefore I also said, ‘I will not drive them out from before you, but they will be thorns in your sides, and their gods will be a snare to you.’” R" Wrong time Dave, you Can mock scripture if you want – your free Will ChoiceD" Divine pardon - OR - you will spend your time in proportional Punishment ashamed for who you are R" Scriptures for this ...... showing....proportional Punishment Already provided 2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. D" Death of your immortal spirit – spiritual death – the Second Death R" How can an immortal spirit die? / oxymoron, word game, not immortal to begin with?The moron here is the fella that refuses to define the word immortal correctly Spirit is NEVER mortal – DUH = immortal D"King Solomon is about as Hebrew as they come Robert R" I see. You assume Solomon wrote about his shedim, yes I read the passages. DO you really think God would come to dwell in a temple made from wicked sinning creatures called shedim? What do you think God is? If the temple was built by man alone – it would still be built by wicked sinning creatures - DUHD" Actually attitude about the church = if there is other life in space – theologians would have to rethink their religions – it would harm the faith – prove the faith in error and therefore not credible R" Why would it harm them?Have you lived your life under a rock – or are you just not well informed? Dave posts a pile of links to " How would religion react if we discovered extra-terrestrial life?" OK and your discussion is? No discussion?Either you are familiar with common knowledge – and the topic of Christianity - or you are not Do I have to read the information for you?
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Post by Dave on Jun 12, 2022 12:31:06 GMT -5
D"now explain how this fits your Ezk 28 passage R" It explains who these creatures are from "arche" the beginning, and who these rulers "Archons" of darkness are. They were sinless angels who used their free will to begin sinning and their chief leader Belzeebub, also known as the opposer, was the first to have sinned. There are no other creatures created before Creation - DUHGen 1:1 In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens and the earth— Gen 1:2 the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness is on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters, Gen 1:3 and God saith, 'Let light be;' and light is. Gen 1:4 And God seeth the light that it is good, and God separateth between the light and the darkness, Gen 1:5 and God calleth to the light 'Day,' and to the darkness He hath called 'Night;' and there is an evening, and there is a morning—day one. DAY ONERev 12:1 And a great sign was seen in the heaven, a woman arrayed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars, Rev 12:2 and being with child she doth cry out, travailing and pained to bring forth. Rev 12:3 And there was seen another sign in the heaven, and, lo, a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his head seven diadems, During Gen 1:2 → Gen 1:2 choshekEze 28:11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Son of ManEze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; Before Edenevery precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. None of this existed as of Gen 1:2 – without form and voidEze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; Prove to me that the King of Tyre was not the appointed guardian / protector of his kingdomand I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. None of this existed as of Gen 1:2 – without form and voidEze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. NOT CONSISTANT WITH SCRIPTURE – appeared fully formed with a purposeBut is consistant with man - born innocent Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: Sin = disobedience to God – or transgressing God’s commandmentsYOU HAVE FAILED to give me a verse that your satan disobeys God YOU HAVE FAILED to explain to me why you teach it a sin to obey God God sent the angel to kill /murder all the first born of EgyptYou demand this angel is sinning – but you refuse to answer why it is a sin to obey GodGod forced David to census God's Will Satan forced David to census – you say it is ra and evil and opposing GodGod told satan – do not kill JobProve to me that your satan opposed God and disobeyedtherefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Sure hope this is not America – but is totally consistent with the SUNBURST / STARBURST PROPHESY Obviously – Russia – or China – or even Nicaragua / Venezuela can NOT take on America in an even fight The only option = Pearl Harbor - take them out in a preemptive strike George Bush called it – SHOCK AND AWE – in Iraq America struck with multiple nuclear explosions occurring simultaneously The best friend of Israel – that pulled out of the Middle East – just as Iran approaches a Nuclear Weapon Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; What sanctuaries – what multitude – Gen 1:2 – without form and void – alongside the pains of creation Rev 12:1-3therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee – (yester ra) VANITYEcc 1:2 Vanity of vanities, said the Preacher, Vanity of vanities: the whole is vanity. D"now explain how this fits your Ezk 28 passage R" It explains who these creatures are from "arche" the beginning, and who these rulers "Archons" of darkness are. They were sinless angels who used their free will to begin sinning and their chief leader Belzeebub, also known as the opposer, was the first to have sinned. There are no other creatures created before Creation – DUHtheir chief leader beelzebubClarification – beelzebub cannot be the Beast himselfWhy (1) King Solomon tells us – belzeebub himself stated – he is the offspring of an ARCH-ANGEL (2) Rev 12:3 … and, lo, a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his head seven diadems, The Beast – The Chief Archon – is the top of a military style hierarchy The Beast – The Chief Archon = 10 + 7 Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. his heads – his generals – each assigned an area of responsibility Belzeebub is that general assigned to earth – or our galaxy – or our universe Just as the ‘sar’ of Persia is assigned to Persian As opposed to the ‘sar’ of this WORLD What is the First Commandment to the BEAST = go forth be fruitful and multiplyGnostic – NHL – says this is exactly what the Beast did -= satan’s seed = offspring Expanding to 72 little kingdoms with an archon of its own and a grand total of 365 The promise of Allah – 72 mansions with a virgin each Did a group of these archon sin – YES – admitted – Jude 1:6100% Jude / Enoch – Gen 6 – bane elohiym → Nephilim → Enoch's Watchers What is their sin – their disobedience – their transgression of God’s Commandments to them‘go forth be fruitful and multiply’ – AFTER YOUR OWN KINDThis group is held in chains in a prison on the back side of heaven 3 – awaiting Rev 9 release upon the land and man 100% Judaism 100% Enoch - Watchers 100% Gnostic – NHL 100% scripture HOWEVER – we also know 10% of them were allowed to remainThey fathered the Rephiem – the inequity of the Amorite (400 years worth) God told Israel to perform GENOCYDE upon this group – this gene pool From Jericho → to Saul saving back the cattle for a feast Jdg 2:1 Now the angel of Adonai came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and He said, “I brought you up out of Egypt and took you into the land which I swore to your fathers. I also said, ‘I will never break My covenant with you. Jdg 2:2 Now as for you, you must make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land. You must break down their altars.’ But you have not listened to My voice. What is this you have done? Jdg 2:3 Therefore I also said, ‘I will not drive them out from before you, but they will be thorns in your sides, and their gods will be a snare to you.’” Jdg 2:4 Now when the angel of Adonai spoke these words to all Bnei-Yisrael, the people lifted up their voice and wept. Jdg 2:5 So they called the name of that place Bochim, and they sacrificed there to Adonai. The Rephiem are still here – genetic link – a genetic corruptionGen 6 – ~3000 BC alien human hybrids 2020 AD UFOlogy = alien human hybrids Last word about Ezk 281- it is all about the man – the king of Tyre 2- the metaphor is about man – all humanity – mankind – human beings – Eve 3- the metaphor / simile = the error of vanity (yester ra) SELF 4- the Beast appeared at the birth of creation 5- Everything in Ezk 28 is a reference to a later time – after things were created NO ONE DENIES THE BEAST NO ONE DENIES THE PRINCIPALITIES/ARCHON OF PAULThey were made by Him for Him – Col 1:16 also Judaism 101 ALL GOD’s WILL – ALL GOD’s PLANHeb 3:4 For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God. Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen. Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Pro 16:4 Adonai works everything out for his own purpose—even the wicked for a day of disaster. No created being ever changed its form or function/purpose aganst God's Will and then altered God's plan angainst God's Will
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2022 17:47:27 GMT -5
D" Prove to me that the King of Tyre was not the appointed guardian / protector of his kingdom
R" King Tyre was a guardian / protector of his kingdom, yes that is a story from this poem, but poems also allow for other stories which I term similes. You choose to ignore investigating the other stories in this poem. Why do you do this?
D"Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
NOT CONSISTANT WITH SCRIPTURE – appeared fully formed with a purpose R" brevity Dave again.
Readers, Dave is not supporting Scripture because he does not like the Satanas beast becoming a sinner through sinning because of free will choosing to sin, So Dave declares this is not consistent with Scripture, the beast has to be already formed and programmed with a program from God, much as God would create a cow with a program to be a cow.
Rob asks Dave, how it this not consistent?
The cherub was created sinless until sinning was found in the cherub, obviously had free will to sin.
D"But is consistant with man - born innocent
R" So you reject the poem, saying the similes are wrong.
Prove to me the similes are wrong?
Angels are not similar to humans you say?
Both creatures eat food. Both have a hand Both used to have wings, we lost ours due to sinning. Both can walk Both can talk Both have faces. Both can serve God (I assume with free will) Sure I get angels have added powers we humans have lost due to our sins. Both are created. Both can sing praises. Both termed the sons of God.
Dave says angels have spirit bodies, whatever that means, no Scripture though for this, just a made up story, so this poem cannot be a poem and the similes are false? You sir violate the inspired writer of poetry.
------------------------------------- D" YOU HAVE FAILED to give me a verse that your satan disobeys God R" I did already, a creature that sins is by definition opposing God. Is this not true?
Worship me, the shedim asked Jesus. Shedim is a father of lies Shedim is a father of murderers Shedim possess the souls of humans, we are called legion. Shedim devours the HS child as soon as its born God invited one to be a lying medium in 1 Kings.
Any creature that sins is by definition opposing God. No such thing as a programmed creature doing ra, for this violates the definition of creatures opposing God.
Often a lion kills to eat, but sometimes we see the lion saves the baby after killing its mother? How is this possible? Obviously creatures are not programmed as you claim, they also have intelligence to follow God's laws. And sometimes they do and often they don't.
D"God sent the angel to kill /murder all the first born of Egypt You demand this angel is sinning – but you refuse to answer why it is a sin to obey God R" It is difficult to ascertain WHOM did the murdering, as you wish me to claim. Some things are best left alone. I gave you a study on this, are you not satisfied? No discussion came from my study? You just repeat the same old phrases....
D" Prove to me that your satan opposed God and disobeyed R" OK answer me one question : a creature that sins is by definition opposing God. Is this not true?
So is not Satan a creature, does He not sin, than there is your answer?
D"What sanctuaries – what multitude R" Places where God comes to visit the princes of other unfallen worlds.
D"(1) King Solomon tells us – belzeebub himself stated – he is the offspring of an ARCH-ANGEL
R No angel can procreate or create a evil sinning creature known as belzeebub, the chief of shedim. Your writings is false.
D"Did a group of these archon sin – YES – admitted – Jude 1:6 R" Than these are by definition opposing God
D"Last word about Ezk 28 1- it is all about the man – the king of Tyre 2- the metaphor is about man – all humanity – mankind – human beings – Eve 3- the metaphor / simile = the error of vanity (yester ra) SELF
4- the Beast appeared at the birth of creation 5- Everything in Ezk 28 is a reference to a later time – after things were created
R" Well people read poems as they see fit, so I see here. SO that is how you choose to see poems. Fine
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jun 12, 2022 21:30:42 GMT -5
D"Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
NOT CONSISTANT WITH SCRIPTURE – appeared fully formed with a purpose R" brevity Dave again. Rob asks Dave, how it this not consistent? Already answered – the Beast appeared fully formed ready to devour and consume Please read Rev 12:1-5
D" YOU HAVE FAILED to give me a verse that your satan disobeys God R" I did already, a creature that sins is by definition opposing God. Is this not true? Correct - this is your assumption - this is your justification - it is not scriptural
God sent the angel of death to murder all the first born of Egypt Exo 20:13 Do not murder. - Murder is a sin a creature that sins is by definition opposing God. Is this not true? Correct – you teach it is a sin to obey God AND YOU WONT ANSWER THE QUESTION – I have been waiting 3 years for your answer
D"God sent the angel to kill /murder all the first born of Egypt You demand this angel is sinning – but you refuse to answer why it is a sin to obey God R" It is difficult to ascertain WHOM did the murdering, as you wish me to claim. Some things are best left alone. Correct – you refuse to answer the question – because it does not support your doctrine So you avoide the direct questuion - evade answering - then change the subject Just like now
D"(1) King Solomon tells us – belzeebub himself stated – he is the offspring of an ARCH-ANGEL R No angel can procreate or create a evil sinning creature known as belzeebub, the chief of shedim. Your writings is false. Correct – angels do not have offspring This is proof that satan’s seed – the offspring of the Beast are biological creature like that Ole serpent in the Garden - biological as described by King Solomon
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2022 4:42:46 GMT -5
D"God sent the angel of death to murder all the first born of Egypt
Exo 20:13 Do not murder. - Murder is a sin
a creature that sins is by definition opposing God. Is this not true?
Correct – you teach it is a sin to obey God
AND YOU WONT ANSWER THE QUESTION – I have been waiting 3 years for your answer
R" I answered this question 4 or 5 posts back
Question: When GOD takes away your living, which comes from God anyway, is this an act of transgressing the Law of God, no murder?
Ex 20:13 Thou shalt not kill <ratsach>.
Ratsach does not mean kill anyway, it means no wounding. Which is a broader term, implies killing, but more deeper than just killing.
Again let's look at all 40 verses of ratsach V) ,]V (,]V R-TsHh) — Murder: [freq. 47] (vf: Paal, Niphal, Pual, Piel, Participle) |kjv: slayer, murderer, kill, murder, slain, manslayer, killing, death| {str: 7523} Nm) ,]V (,]V R-TsHh) — Wound: A deadly wound. [freq. 2] |kjv: sword, slaughter| {str: 7524}
Jeff Benner sees this word coming in two forms, the verb and noun form. Both forms must have the same basic meaning.
Ie wound and wounded
Ps 42:9 I will say unto God my rock, Why hast thou forgotten me? why go I mourning because of the oppression of the enemy? 10 As with a sword in my bones, mine enemies reproach me; while they say daily unto me, Where is thy God? 11 Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted within me? hope thou in God: for I shall yet praise him, who is the health of my countenance, and my God. (KJV)
Depression wounds people, as does the scoffing of enemies. Bullying is another example of wounding.
Wound to the bones is another simile, we should investigate.
Eze 21:22 At his right hand was the divination for Jerusalem, to appoint captains, to open the mouth in the slaughter, to lift up the voice with shouting,
To open the mouth to wound Wow, so words can wound.
Jos 24:15 ¶ And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
16 And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods;
Joshua speaks of Amorites, what Dillon raised. And we have a choice to which elohiym powers we serve.
Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
The command tells us that other elohiym powers opposing God exists, otherwise this royal torah makes no sense.
Dave now agrees that other elohiym powers do exist, the archon, the satanas, he terms false gods or pretend gods.
Not sure a creature who sins becomes only a pretender of pride, and pretender of self and a pretender of a god? Sinning is serious to god, and a sinner is no pretender.
A long time ago some cherubims decided to sin against God, becoming opposers to God and His love.
The tree of RA tells you who is other elohiym power is.
There were two trees, thus two opposing elohiym powers established in the garden.
Back to the question on hand
Does God have the right to wound you before you have a chance of choosing to be saved by God? No, that would be killing off any chance of salvation for you.
How much living and chances does a person need before God can take back His living in you, because you refuse to choose His offer of salvation? Well that depends upon the unpardonable nature of the persons rebellion.
Some people reach epigentic stages where no further salvation free will decisions are made even if another 300 years were given to them. They are lost.
The is an interesting Hebrew word to study "aven", it is a DNA gene word translated into English as propensity.
Everything you do is recorded by the DNA, and your pet sins become habits of RA that are inherited by your children. There comes a time after 5 generations when your aven affects completely swamp the children's children, so there is no chance of them making a free will decision without the propensities pulling them into the way of the parents before them.
Example the Amorites were given 400 years for this.
Now I have tried to answer your question, and as you see its complex and hard to fathom, it is mixed with Gods hard love and soft love, and with mercy and judgement. Now you try to show me your views from Scripture/ -----------------------
Question: Where is the verse for this angel of death?
2Sa 24:16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil,
Not angel here, but messenger, and not a phrase messenger of death.... --------------------
The destroying wind, does look and function like an angel though, from my Hebrew English translator
"The angel of mercy was then folding her wings to step down from the golden throne to give place to justice and swift-coming judgment. But Christ's great heart of love still pleaded for Jerusalem, that had scorned His mercies, despised His warnings, and was about to imbrue her hands in His blood. If Jerusalem would but repent, it was not yet too late"
Notice "her wings"
When the angel of mercy folds her wings and departs , Satan will do the evil deeds he has long wished to do. Storm and tempest, war and bloodshed—in these things he delights, and thus he gathers in his harvest
And this is found in the torah too, does the medium of the HS destroy or does the HS medium allow another power to destroy?
1Ki 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.
The medium a function from God, allows Satan to enter the medium and destroy as a lying medium.
Why can't Satan destroy on his own? Because as Dave points out Satan is no creator and has no powers. And the sin problem is all controlled by God to begin with. Does this mean God is a destroyer, after all God is functionally allowing a medium to work for good or evil?
Just as man engineered the gun, for good or evil does not make the engineers guilty of evil when evil people kill with the gun.
A medium does not take active sides in the function, each elohiym power uses the medium for its purposes. That is why 1Kings is written as a lying medium, not identifying the agent who does this specifically. The cherub who sinned is promoting a kingdom of sinning, so any creature wanting to sin, is allowed to have this ruler over them, and God allows this.
D"Correct – angels do not have offspring This is proof that satan’s seed – the offspring of the Beast are biological creature like that Ole serpent in the Garden - biological as described by King Solomon
R" Good angels cannot procreate. I support the shedim as fallen angels.
You have a different idea, that the shedim were created when Gen 1:2 was spoken, arising by itself, like from the left hand, appearing without the Father's approval or notice.
No verse for this, no verse for shedim created, or serpent created, or devil created But verse for cherub created and for cherub that sinned.
I think you archons is all made up Dave, from Gnostic writings.
And since we cannot agree on this, you invent much from outside the Scriptures, we have nothing more to say.
Question: If the beast suddenly appears as a pretending opposing elohiym power, why would the Father allow an opposer to oppose Him?
My understanding of Scripture is only sinning opposes the Father and all the wickedness that sinning is.
Your logic makes no sense. A creature suddenly becomes a pretending opposing elohiym power, yet does no sinning? Programmed to do RA. If that is so, where is the other elohiym powers the commandments tell us do exist?
Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
The verse says the Father would not allow a creature to appear suddenly as an opposing elohiym power.
The verse also says there are opposing elohiym powers.
This verse is more damaging than the Ezek 28 one.
You either accept the archons are opposing powers, hence creature gods. Than you have a problem, how did they become like that, if they are not sinning? The only opposing thing God hates is sin.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jun 13, 2022 10:39:39 GMT -5
Correct – you teach it is a sin to obey God AND YOU WONT ANSWER THE QUESTION – I have been waiting 3 years for your answer
R" I answered this question 4 or 5 posts back Question: When GOD takes away your living, which comes from God anyway, is this an act of transgressing the Law of God, no murder? This is not an answer – it is a justification – a long winded run around to avoid the direct question
Ex 20:13 Thou shalt not kill <ratsach>. Ratsach does not mean kill anyway, it means no wounding. Which is a broader term, implies killing, but more deeper than just killing.
According to you – everyone is sent to the lake of fire except a very few SDA members Gods punishment for sin = more deeper than just killing.= the death of spirit
Was it your satan that kill and entire planet of people with the Flood - or was it God Was it your satan that destroyed Sodom and Gamorrah - or was it God Is it God that throws the wicked into the Lake of Fire - or does your satan do it
Ps 42:9 I will say unto God my rock, Why hast thou forgotten me? why go I mourning because of the oppression of the enemy? YES – keep you sidetracked – preoccupied – so you do not have the time to devote to the Holy Spirit
10 As with a sword in my bones, mine enemies reproach me; while they say daily unto me, Where is thy God? YES – keep you sidetracked – preoccupied – so you do not have the time to devote to the Holy Spirit
11 Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted within me? hope thou in God: for I shall yet praise him, who is the health of my countenance, and my God. Depression wounds people, as does the scoffing of enemies. Bullying is another example of wounding. YES – keep you sidetracked – preoccupied – so you do not have the time to devote to the Holy Spirit
Eze 21:22 At his right hand was the divination for Jerusalem, to appoint captains, to open the mouth in the slaughter, to lift up the voice with shouting, To open the mouth to wound - Wow, so words can wound. And you are here every day denying the spirit and diminishing the sovereignty of God while elevating your satan to godhood
Jos 24:15 ¶ And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. 16 And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods; Joshua speaks of Amorites, what Dillon raised. And we have a choice to which elohiym powers we serve. Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. The command tells us that other elohiym powers opposing God exists, otherwise this royal torah makes no sense. Dave now agrees that other elohiym powers do exist, the archon, the satanas, he terms false gods or pretend gods.
STOP THIS SHIT RIGHT NOW – have some dignity / integrity – or get the hell of this forum! STOP MISREPRESENTING ME and others to make your point!
Robert claims that these other gods are all equal with the creator – they all can create matter – they all can save you – and they all will judge you after you die
ABSOLUTE PAGAN NONESENSE THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUE GOD – everything else is a created thing
Dave now agrees that other elohiym powers do exist, the archon, the satanas, he terms false gods or pretend gods. THE REALITY OF THE ARCHON HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE MESSAGE OF THIS FORUM
They are not the creator – they cannot save you – they will never judge you after your death They are created things – just like Ceasar or Mammon – just things of this WORLD!
A long time ago some cherubims decided to sin against God, becoming opposers to God and His love. You have had 3 years to support you doctrine – You have failed to give one scriptural example of your satan disobeying God You have failed to present one pre-Roman source for your doctrine
The tree of RA tells you who is other elohiym power is. STOP MISREPRESENTING SCRIPTURE to support your man-made satan doctrine There were two trees, thus two opposing elohiym powers established in the garden. One is LIFE – and one is KNOWLEDGE -----------------------
Question: Where is the verse for this angel of death? 2Sa 24:16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, Not angel here, but messenger, and not a phrase messenger of death....
WHO CARES ABOUT YOUR WORD GAME Does it say your satan stretched out his hand – or is it an angel of the Lord? --------------------
1Ki 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee. YES – God did it – God put the lying spirit there Why do you teach your god is a sinner and opposes himself
D"Correct – angels do not have offspring This is proof that satan’s seed – the offspring of the Beast are biological creature like that Ole serpent in the Garden - biological as described by King Solomon
R" Good angels cannot procreate. I support the shedim as fallen angels. Make up your mind – they are angels – or they are not angels Or are now teaching that a created being can change is form and function – an pig can become a cow ABSOLUTE NONSENSE
You have a different idea, that the shedim were created when Gen 1:2 was spoken, arising by itself, like from the left hand, appearing without the Father's approval or notice.
If you are going to quote me do it correctly - without the Father's approval or notice Gnostic NHL literature says – on her own without her consorts consent God never said – let there be a beast It just appeared by the left hand Seems to be too spiritual in nature for you to grasp
I think you archons is all made up Dave, from Gnostic writings. Did Paul and Luke copy the Gnostics? There is already evidence that Luke story of the birth of Jesus is error – why are these books in your received text? – The Gospel of Luke, Colossians, and Ephesians One error – and we must discard all of the text – your Absolute Standard for everyone else I am a New Testement Christian - why do you deny the agl?
You must also deny the theology of the Jews before Christ You must also deny the theology of the entire Levant before Christ You must also deny the theology of all the 99% Then you replace it all with Catholic Catechism
And since we cannot agree on this, you invent much from outside the Scriptures, we have nothing more to say.
If you intent is to convert me into a satan believer – you can stop anytime Absolute Nonsense that a created creature – changed his form and function against God’s Will – and then opposes God against God’s Will – even powerful enough to alter God’s Plan against God’s Will This doctrine is anti-Jewish and anti-God - because it is from the anti-Christ Who usurpted Messanic Judasim and changed into the Fallen Angel Catholicism ----------------
Question: If the beast suddenly appears as a pretending opposing elohiym power, why would the Father allow an opposer to oppose Him? Robert – you need to grow up – be a man – your comeback belongs on an elementary school yard
1- the beast suddenly appears as a pretending opposing elohiym power The Beast appeared ready to devour and consume – all creation – entropy
2- pretending opposing elohiym power The Beast is NOT GOD – he is only the ‘sar’ of physical reality = WORLD His job as ‘sar’ of this WORLD – to devour and consume
3- why would the Father allow an opposer to oppose Him? PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY – ENTROPY – (devour and consume) is not God’s Plan? Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
You teach this was not God's Plan - You teach God tried to do this first but couldn't because your satan god stopped Him - changed it all against God's Will forcing God to start over with a New Plan Absolute Nonsense
Fact - God test man – to see if man keeps the mitzvah or not Fact – God does not do it directly – the temptation is always from the WORLD
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is dragged away and enticed by his own desire.
Jas 1:14 and each one is tempted, by his own desires being led away and enticed,
Gen 3:6 And the woman seeth that the tree is good for food, and that it is pleasant to the eyes, and the tree is desirable to make one wise, and she taketh of its fruit and eateth,
Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Why do you think these other gods are equal with the Creator? THEY ARE NOT – they are created beings filled with vanity (yester ra)
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