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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2021 14:28:22 GMT -5
D" Chay and chayah – are the same word – who uses polysemy now RobertR boy you really don't get things Try looking up KJV quicken (chayah), and compare it to life (chay), they are NOT the same words in Hebrew 1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Ga 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 1Pe 3:18 ¶ For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: D So now you have two Holy Spirits – which one is the Comforter of the agl?R No Dave. Just ONE www.sdanet.org/atissue/books/qod/q08.htm “In the light of the foregoing we believe that the divine Son of God, one of whose titles is "Michael the archangel," is the leader of the angelic hosts.”Then why do you post this SDA garbage if you don’t support itR I do support it Dave. Jesus is the Son of GOD is also a ruler over the angelic armies of heaven. Does not mean Jesus is an angel. Jesus is NOT an angel. Jesus is the commander over the angels. D" OH – I see – you have a biological soul that dies and returns to the dust – just mortal And this is why only the HS returns to heaven with our recorded memoriesR You do not read my posts very well. The nephesh does not die when the the biology dies, the term ceases to function that is all. When GOD leaves your biology, you as a character ceases to function, the nephesh just goes away. You see this terms as a thing... it's not a thing, its a term to describe relationship of GOD with MATTER. D" So again I ask At the sub-atomic level we are just the HS-medium And in the end only the memories of the animal return to heavenR Hmm? Not sure I can answer this Dave. The Nature of the HS is a mystery, the Hebrew translator tells us and silence is golden. I do not know how in details this relationship functions, only that the HS as a medium lives when we live, to enable the soul to function. D" Where is man in your equation – you say you believe in the soul but it dies like biology and returns to the dust because it is mortal -simple biology
R The soul is not biology... that is an insult to GOD.... the soul is a term describing living energy. It is a term used to describe how man is able to think and live and it done in partnership with GOD. The soul is not a thing as you pose... it's a term, relational term... man becomes a soul, not man is a soul. God moves over the biology and man becomes a living soul. D" Why doesn't it say God's Spirit testifies to our biology?R good question Dave. DOn't know. It says the HS as a medium testifies to the HS as a medium inside of us, we are children of GOD. A strange sentence indeed. Some say the word ruach also refers to wind of God and the wind of man, meaning character of GOD and the character of man.... Hmm? maybe? So the HS empowering the character of GOD witnesses to the character of man, we are children of GOD? Still a strange sentence. SOme things are mysteries Dave.... always pondering. D" So your God has to create a new soul for each and every new baby Sorry Robert – creation only took 6 DaysR you see soul as a thing that requires creating each time it is needed. I see the soul as GOD beginning a new relationship with eggs and sperm. Surely GOD can do that? Is that a creative effect or a relational effect? I see it as relational? The soul is a relational term, not the product of creation per se. D" Where is your Torah scripture – over and over you just state worldly examplesR NO I don't, such similes are in Scripture? Ho 1:2 ¶ The beginning of the word of the LORD by Yashuah. And the LORD Yashuah said to Yashuah, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: The whole book is about Jesus, marrying sinning humans... D" Again with your excuses – satan made me do it – the prosecutor made me do it Sorry Robert – you make your own choices – stop looking for an excuseR You are changing topics, too hot for you? Since when do prosecutors help you do the crimes you are prosecuted for? Is there an example of this kind of prosecutor Dave in Scripture? Yes Joh 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them notJesus wrote every sex act these prosecutors did to Mary (their sex host) until they all went away... and no one condemned her. A prosecutor Dave cannot by definition help do the crimes you are guilty of doing.... D" I said for those who did not have a chanceR OH, sorry. Why mention things ? GOD is bigger than us, why worry about such things? These ones (if GOD sees salvation in them going forward) are allowed to grow up in heaven as babies and children... so no need for them to choose Jesus, they will choose Jesus in heaven, and grow without sin. My two pennies worth. Shalom
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Post by Dave on May 18, 2021 15:40:58 GMT -5
D"Chay and chayah – are the same word – who uses polysemy now Robert R boy you really don't get things Try looking up KJV quicken (chayah), and compare it to life (chay), they are NOT the same words in Hebrew H2421 – חָיָה - châyâh - A prim root (compare H2331, H2424); to live, H2416 – חַי – chay - From H2421; alive; Same root – zero polysemy – Robert method – word for wordNow the Robert Flip Flop they are NOT the same words in Hebrewand you wonder why you are not taken seriously www.sdanet.org/atissue/books/qod/q08.htm“In the light of the foregoing we believe that the divine Son of God, one of whose titles is "Michael the archangel," is the leader of the angelic hosts.” Then why do you post this SDA garbage if you don’t support it R I do support it DaveChrist is not the angel MichaelThe Angel Michael is just not another title for Christ SDA HOGWASHSo is makes the Angel Michael divine? Are all angels divine – just how may gods do you have?D" OH – I see – you have a biological soul that dies and returns to the dust – just mortal And this is why only the HS returns to heaven with our recorded memories R You do not read my posts very well.The nephesh does not die when the the biology dies, YOU ADMIT IT – the nepesh is our soul – our soul is not mortal it is immortal When we die our soul/spirit/nepesh returns to God Finally we are getting somewhereSo enough with this HS-Medium thingMan is the nepesh = it come from God and it returns to God and has nothing to do with biologyD" So again I ask At the sub-atomic level we are just the HS-medium And in the end only the memories of the animal return to heaven R Hmm? Not sure I can answer this Dave. BECAUSE YOU DENY THE SOUL / SPIRITR The soul is not biology... that is an insult to GOD.... the soul is a term describing living energy.BINGO – man is spirit – man is living energyYou have argued against this precept for 2 years Mr Flip Flop And when God mated that living energy / spirit with the animal – man became a living being D"Why doesn't it say God's Spirit testifies to our biology? R good question Dave. DOn't know. It says the HS as a medium testifies to the HS as a medium inside of us, we are children of GOD. A strange sentence indeedOnly for you and your SDA doctrine that has to make exception ans is unable to answer questionsD" So your God has to create a new soul for each and every new baby Sorry Robert – creation only took 6 Days R you see soul as a thing that requires creating each time it is needed.No I don’t – you make this claimI say we were all created in the host of heaven on Day 1 as scriptures says – and only the biology is procreatedYou deny that man is a spirit – only an animal with memories – therefore each man is created when procreatedI see the soul as GOD beginning a new relationship with eggs and sperm. Only biology World manD" Again with your excuses – satan made me do it – the prosecutor made me do it Sorry Robert – you make your own choices – stop looking for an excuse R You are changing topics, too hot for you? Since when do prosecutors help you do the crimes you are prosecuted for? You deny the archon and their role in the Contest OUR REAL STRUGGLE You assign all their works to your satan – therefore you are confused
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 4:36:07 GMT -5
Glad you think we are getting somewhere... with some aspects of discussion. You missed reading one important point:- " A gain with your excuses – satan made me do it – the prosecutor made me do it Sorry Robert – you make your own choices – stop looking for an excuseR You are changing topics, too hot for you? Since when do prosecutors help you do the crimes you are prosecuted for?Is there an example of this kind of prosecutor Dave in Scripture? Yes Joh 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them notJesus wrote every sex act these prosecutors did to Mary (their sex host) until they all went away... and no one condemned her. A prosecutor Dave cannot by definition help do the crimes you are guilty of doing.... Shalom
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Post by Dave on May 19, 2021 8:07:37 GMT -5
Glad you think we are getting somewhere... with some aspects of discussion. The nephesh does not die when the the biology dies,… R The soul is not biology... that is an insult to GOD.... the soul is a term describing living energy. Correct – the soul of man – your nepesh is immortalYour biological parents cannot create the living energy that is your soul – because it is not biological It comes from God and is mated to the animal man at conception From God we come and to God we return – 100% Jewish You missed reading one important point:- " Again with your excuses – satan made me do it – the prosecutor made me do it Sorry Robert – you make your own choices – stop looking for an excuse R You are changing topics, too hot for you? Since when do prosecutors help you do the crimes you are prosecuted for?You deny the archon and attribute all the ra to your satan god of evil – therefore you are confusedOUR REAL STRUGGLE = Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities (archon), against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. If you listen to our real enemy and focus upon the WORLD – choose world Satan the prosecutor will be right there to accuse
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2021 14:56:38 GMT -5
Correct – the soul of man – your nepesh is immortal
The term nephesh is not a thing, a entity, its a word to describe relationship. its a relational term.
When you connect with GOD you become a soul. When you lose that connection you are nothing but biology or dust.
The connection is not immortal, it is very conditional indeed, that you choose GOD continually in love. A single event of missing (sin) causes your connection to end. Why it doesn't end when you sin is because God loves the sinner but hates the sin. One day sin is not tolerated so easily a second time.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on May 20, 2021 17:31:14 GMT -5
The nephesh does not die when the the biology dies,… R The soul is not biology... that is an insult to GOD.... the soul is a term describing living energy. The term nephesh is not a thing, a entity, its a word to describe relationship. its a relational term. When you lose that connection you are nothing but biology or dust.Soul, Nephesh in Biblical Hebrew.“Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it,” (Ecclesiastes 12:7). This verse sums up what happens to both the material and immaterial aspects of the nephesh. ... We shall see the Biblical Hebrew meaning of this spirit that returns to God upon death. The nephesh does not die when the the biology dies,… R The soul is not biology... that is an insult to GOD.... the soul is a term describing living energy. Hey flip flop man – which doctrine do you support today? Mr Consistancy
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2021 14:51:23 GMT -5
Soul, Nephesh in Biblical Hebrew. “Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it,” (Ecclesiastes 12:7). This verse sums up what happens to both the material and immaterial aspects of the nephesh. ... We shall see the Biblical Hebrew meaning of this spirit that returns to God upon death.
May 19, 2021 at 5:28am robertt said:
The nephesh does not die when the the biology dies,… R The soul is not biology... that is an insult to GOD.... the soul is a term describing living energy.
Hey flip flop man – which doctrine do you support today? Mr Consistency
R Dave you do not read my sentences very well do you?
D This verse sums up what happens to both the material and immaterial aspects of the nephesh. ... We shall see the Biblical Hebrew meaning of this spirit that returns to God upon death.
First nephesh is not the sum of material and immaterial aspects, as you claim,
Nephesh does not mean flesh (basar) + breath (nashamah) of life (chay) from Father (Eloah) administrated via the Holy Spirit Medium (ruwach).
The text says when flesh (basar) + breath (nashamah) of life (chay) from Father (Eloah) administrated via the Holy Spirit Medium (ruwach)come together in a relationship, the entity becomes living energy (nephesh).
The word nephesh also comes as a verb, and both verb and noun, must mean similar meanings. Nephesh verb = energize Nephesh noun = living energy.
Now who pray tell is energy? God is, And who is living? Only God is living.
So how is it the nephesh is a relational term describing the immortal nature of God is a no brainer.
It says the power of the Father administrated by the HS as a medium returns back to Elohiym when the relationship dies, ie the person is no longer living (ie cognitive).
Now try to fathom what the torah is saying:-
Nephesh (energize/living energy) is not a thing on its own, its a term used to describe an aspect of God, when used in this context.
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Jesus nephesh was poured out unto death. The living energy between the Father and the HS causing the relationship to their Son became broken upon Jesus sacrifice upon the cross. The separation of living components is defined as the second death experience.
Stop making up coping statements, and start looking at better views of the torah that must embrace all the verses of context.
You ignore the cherub chata verse, you ignore the angels who left their first estate (arche), and you think the war in heaven is not continuing as a war on earth....so sad....
You do not even consider millions of other created creatures have free will, hence when sin first occurred with angels, these unfallen beings need time to reflect the war over love and sin. Hence why the battle is so long and so detailed.
Happy Shabbat (Ceasing Day)
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Post by Dave on May 21, 2021 16:38:01 GMT -5
www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13933-soul"The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord" (Prov. xx. 27); "There is a spirit in man" (Job xxxii. 8); "The spirit shall return unto God who gave it" (Eccl. xii. 7). The soul is called in Biblical literature "ruaḥ," "nefesh," and "neshamah." The first of these terms denotes the spirit in its primitive state; the second, in its association with the body; the third, in its activity while in the body.The tripartite nature of the soulThe Jewish soul is called = "ruaḥ," "nefesh," and "neshamah." And Neshamah - its activity while in the body.A Trinity of existence in a 3 dimensional world – imagine thatJust like every sub-atomic particle is compose of 3 quarks – two spin together and one spins opposite Just like the building blocks of matter – proton, neutron, and electron (the part of the atom that normally interact with anything) Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. Spirt – free from the body (Catholic Ghost) Soul – spirit trapped within a body by the silver cord Ecc 12:6 before the silver cord is snapped, … Ecc 12:7 Then the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. An explicit statement of the doctrine of the preexistence of the soul is found in the Apocrypha: "All souls are prepared before the foundation of the world" (Slavonic Book of Enoch, xxiii. 5); and according to II Esd. iv. 35 et seq. the number of the righteous who are to come into the world is foreordained from the beginning. All souls are, therefore, preexistent, although the number of those which are to become incorporated is not determined at the very first. As a matter of fact, there are souls of different quality. Solomon says (Wisdom viii. 19 et seq., R. V.): "Now I was a child of parts, and a good soul fell to my lot; nay, rather, being good, I came into a body undefiled." The body returns to earth when its possessor "is required to render back the soul which was lent him" (ib. xv. 8, R. V.).
The entry of the soul into the embryo (see Golem) is similarly described in a conversation between Judah the patriarch and the emperor Antoninus (c. 200; Sanh. 91b; comp. ib. 16b and Niddah 31a). The spirits which are to descend to earth are kept in 'Arabot, the last of the seven heavens (Ḥag. 12b, below), while the souls of the righteous dead are beneath the throne of God (Shab. 152b). Associated with this belief is the Talmudic saying that the Messiah will not come till all the souls in the"guf" (the superterrestrial abode of the souls) shall have passed through an earthly existence ('Ab. Zarah 5a; comp. Gen. R. viii. and Ruth R., Introduction). Stop making up coping statements, and start looking at better views of the torah that must embrace all the verses of context.I only quote to you Jewish Theology – and therefore Messianic Jewish Theology – which is the same as Gnostic Christian Theology - the same Theology of the First Christians You ignore the cherub chata verse, 1- cherub chata does not exist in scripture – it is not a Biblical expression Cherub comes for one verse and chata come two verses later 2- the verse is 100% about the King of Tyre and man, and any man / every man / mankind you ignore the angels who left their first estate (arche), Nope – I see them all over Gen 6 – don’t you?and you think the war in heaven is not continuing as a war on earth....so sad.... 1- Only the SDA and you preach a weak God 2- Only the SDA and you elevate your satan strong authority equal with God 3—That would be you and the Catholics – but you can’t seem to stop promoting the doctrine at every chance 4- My God is omnipotent – that means the war in Rev 12:7 was over before it started – no contest - God crushed them like a bug - the Archon were cast into physical creation and you think the war in heaven is not continuing as a war on earth....Excuse me – What is Gen 3:15 but the Great Contest set before manYou just go out of your way to deny the soul / deny the spirit You support the statement – “It is a sin to think you have a soul.’....so sad....
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2021 18:59:43 GMT -5
Pr 20:27 ¶ The spirit "nashamah" of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.
Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath "nashamah" of life; and man became a living soul.
Ge 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath "nashamah" "ruwach" of life,Hebrew Bible Hub always lists ruwach as Common Noun singular? Why is that? Can't even software follow Hebrew? I thought all nouns in Hebrew are either masculine or feminine? So why is the ruwach always listed as Common Noun singular? Beats me. Notice both Hebrew words are listed here under the term breath of life. Hence breath of comes with two themes, one theme is ruwach of life, the other is nashamah of life, these themes are NOT the same, as the Jews suppose. Job 4:9 By the blast <n@shamah> of God <'elowahh> they perish <'abad>, and by the breath <ruwach> of his nostrils <'aph> are they consumed <kalah>. I know you don't like Interlinear KJV with Hebrew root words, makes it easier for me to read Hebrew with some measure of authority. There are two members of elohiym family here, both heavenly parents. nashamah of heavenly Father eloah and HS ruwach breath of His breath (Father's breathing) administrated by medium of HS Job 27:3 All the while <`owd> my breath <n@shamah> is in me, and the spirit <ruwach> of God <'elowahh> is in my nostrils <'aph>; Here I validate the complexity of HS ruwach breath of His breath (Father's breathing) administrated by medium of HS, the terms listed here is ruwach of eloah. Job 33:4 The Spirit <ruwach> of God <'el> hath made <`asah> me, and the breath <n@shamah> of the Almighty <Shadday> hath given me life <chayah> The HS medium ruwach is termed el, a strong authority, not an expression of the Father. The nashamah of the Shadday quickens me with ongoing living. Pr 20:27 ¶ The spirit <n@shamah> of man <'adam> is the candle <niyr> of the LORD <Y@hovah> A simile, what is nashamah? It means the wind of character personalized as breathing. And ruwach, it means the wind of GOD administrated by the HS as a medium. Isa 57:16 For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls <n@shamah> which I have made. What a silly translation, and even Youngs Literal makes the word "soul". Why? Revised Standard version, uses "breath", which this word is.. --------------------- www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13933-soul "The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord" (Prov. xx. 27); "There is a spirit in man" (Job xxxii. 8); "The spirit shall return unto God who gave it" (Eccl. xii. 7). The soul is called in Biblical literature "ruaḥ," "nefesh," and "neshamah." The first of these terms denotes the spirit in its primitive state; the second, in its association with the body; the third, in its activity while in the body.
Rob says" What terrible statements are these. Ruach in its primitive state?? " The breathing of man is the candle of the Lord" (Prov. xx. 27); (AN idiom for man's character is a simile of a candle of Jesus) There is a spirit in man" (Job xxxii. 8); Ruwach ( medium administrating the breath of life) These themes are different, but presented as two common aspects of the "breath of life" Thus we have character and life. Two themes from different Hebrew words in the phrase breath of life. D" Soul – spirit trapped within a body by the silver cordEcc 12:6 before the silver cord is snapped, …Ecc 12:7 Then the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
R You place a lot of weight on understanding poetry similes here Dave? All souls are prepared before the foundation of the world" (Slavonic Book of Enoch, xxiii. 5) The entry of the soul into the embryo (see Golem) is similarly described in a conversation between Judah the patriarch and the emperor Antoninus (c. 200; Sanh. 91b; comp. ib. 16b and Niddah 31a) I only quote to you Jewish Theology – and therefore Messianic Jewish Theology – which is the same as Gnostic Christian Theology - the same Theology of the First Christians
R" I see Pity Jew do not follow torah, written by holy prophets of GOD, not false prophets. Dave posts"\ 1- cherub chata does not exist in scripture – it is not a Biblical expression Cherub comes for one verse and chata come two verses later 2- the verse is 100% about the King of Tyre and man, and any man / every man / mankindEze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Here is the verse Dave. Explain the "thy" "thee" and "thou" ? Is this NOT a "cherub"? Hebrew do not write sentences with Captials and full stop, so explain why these two words are not connected here D the verse is 100% about the King of Tyre and man, R correct. its part of a simile What is a simile Dave? Making something like something else, the the two pictures are not the same, a comparison. Is man a cherub? no was man in eden, before sin? No Was a cherub in eden, before man? Yes It's called a simile, based on poetry, a writing style God invented in His torah. Shalom
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Post by Dave on May 21, 2021 23:51:00 GMT -5
Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath "nashamah" of life; and man became a living soul. Ge 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath "nashamah" "ruwach" of life, Hebrew Bible Hub always lists ruwach as Common Noun singular? Why is that? Can't even software follow Hebrew? I thought all nouns in Hebrew are either masculine or feminine? So why is the ruwach always listed as Common Noun singular? Beats me.You really need to learn to translate – or learn how to use a dictionaryStrongs 7307 ruach: breath, wind, spirit Original Word: רוּחַ Part of Speech: Noun FeminineYes Robert ruach is a feminine noun – which has nothing to do with it being a common noun (google) What are common nouns?A common noun is the generic name for a person, place, or thing in a class or group. Unlike proper nouns, a common noun is not capitalized unless it either begins a sentence or appears in a title. ruach is not a Proper Noun - no capitalization required table - bird - pencile - flower - door - all common nouns I know you don't like Interlinear KJV with Hebrew root words, makes it easier for me to read Hebrew with some measure of authority.H5315 – שׁ – nephesh - From H5314; H5314 = נָפַשׁ = nâphash = A primitive root;
Same root = same word= same concept = same precept – ZERO POLYSEMY The Robert Method remember that Isa 57:16 For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls <n@shamah> which I have made. What a silly translation, and even Youngs Literal makes the word "soul". Why?ZERO POLYSEMY REMEMBERRevised Standard version, uses "breath", which this word is.. Word man – be confused over vocabulary - and miss the precept – your choiceYou came to this forum preaching ZERO POLSEMY and now you don't undestand it--------------------- www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13933-soul"The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord" (Prov. xx. 27); "There is a spirit in man" (Job xxxii. 8); "The spirit shall return unto God who gave it" (Eccl. xii. 7). The soul is called in Biblical literature "ruaḥ," "nefesh," and "neshamah." The first of these terms denotes the spirit in its primitive state; the second, in its association with the body; the third, in its activity while in the body. Rob says" What terrible statements are these. Ruach in its primitive state??Of course you must disagree with Judaism – Rome tells you to do so Of course you refuse to accept the spirit like Judaism, or Messanic Judaism, or Gnostic Christianity Ellen White tells you so Everyone in the world and all through recorded history is wrong and recorded history is wrong and parts of your infalible sripture also have to be wrong To keep Ellen White supremeWhy do you fight against formal Judaism and Christianity? I know who you are The spirit in its primitive state = a free spirit – a (Catholic) ghost – a disembodied spirit Once the spirit is trapped within your biological animal body by the silver cord – it is called a soul D "Soul – spirit trapped within a body by the silver cord Ecc 12:6 before the silver cord is snapped, … Ecc 12:7 Then the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. R You place a lot of weight on understanding poetry similes here Dave?Question #5 – If 1 Chr 21 if filled with disobedience – ra – and sin with your satan; doesn’t this make your God of 2 Sam 24 disobedient to Himself – doing ra – and sinning? Hmm? You have to read the cause the affect carefully, not read the verses as they are written, because Hebrew does not write in sequenced time, but as Jeff explains block logic. So you preachYou cannot read scripture as written? - You must twist scripture into saying something different than what is writtenSURE ROBERT – I accept this statement NOT I also think of anyone that suggest it is trying to deny the word of GodIf scripture does not mean what it says – then it means nothingAnd this is what you preach – doubt the word of God – it means something elseMore and more satanic all the timeI know who you areI only quote to you Jewish Theology – and therefore Messianic Jewish Theology – which is the same as Gnostic Christian Theology - the same Theology of the First Christians R" I see Pity Jew do not follow torah, written by holy prophets of GOD, not false prophets. Have been waiting for two years almost now for you to teach me otherwise I have asked you for a verse to back up your claim that satan opposes God The best you have = (your false assumption) well if you oppose man then you oppose God But when I ask about God opposing man – doesn’t that make your God a satan sinner You get all choked up and refuse to answer1- cherub chata does not exist in scripture – it is not a Biblical expression Cherub comes for one verse and chata come two verses later 2- the verse is 100% about the King of Tyre and man, and any man / every man / mankind Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Here is the verse Dave. Explain the "thy" "thee" and "thou" ? Is this NOT a "cherub"?It does belong to the subject of the paragraph – the King of Tyre, whom is referred to as a cherubD the verse is 100% about the King of Tyre and man, R correct. was man in eden, before sin? NoMan was created on Day 1 with all the host of heaven Creation only took 6 Days – remember your own hard fought preceptWas a cherub in eden, before man? YesMan and cherub were there – this WORLD is in full view of all the heavens
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2021 16:37:19 GMT -5
Greetings Dave You really need to learn to translate – or learn how to use a dictionary
Strongs 7307 ruach: breath, wind, spirit Original Word: רוּחַ Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Yes Robert ruach is a feminine noun – which has nothing to do with it being a common nounHave a look at this Notice the highlight CSC , common singular noun It should show common feminine noun? ------------ Man was created on Day 1 SHow me a verse where man was created from day 1 Man and cherub were there – this WORLD is in full view of all the heavensSHow me a verse where man and cherub were created together SHalom
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Post by Dave on May 22, 2021 20:41:55 GMT -5
You really need to learn to translate – or learn how to use a dictionaryStrongs 7307 ruach: breath, wind, spirit Original Word: רוּחַ Part of Speech: Noun Feminine Please do not confuse common noun with neuter noun English, Greek, and Latin all have masculine, feminine, and neuter (he, she, and it)(google) Hebrew does not carry a "neuter" gender, as Biblical Greek does.Hebrew only has (it and she) and all 'its' are called masculine Why? E=mc2 / God = it and she – and the it = Christ = GodHave a look at this - Notice the highlight CSC , common singular noun It should show common feminine noun?Lesson 14: Hebrew Nouns By Jeff A. Benner. A Noun is defined as a person, place or thing and is the most common type of word in the Biblical text. Some common examples of nouns in the Biblical text are בן (ben - son), מלך (melek - king), ארץ (erets - land), יד (yad - hand), חי (hhai - life) and עץ (eyts - tree). Yes Robert ruach is a feminine noun – which has nothing to do with it being a common nounGen 1:2 (KJV) … the Spirit of God … Gen 1:2 (TLV) … the Ruach Elohim ... Gen 1:2 (OJB) … the Ruach Elohim … Gen 1:2 (LXX) … πνεῦμα θεοῦ Why is the word ruach not a Proper noun in Hebrew in this verse?Answer – God is the proper non – ruach is an adjective of Him – its God’s ruach θεοῦ in Greek is in the Genitive of possession case = God’s spirit Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit Whose Spirit? = God’s Jdg 3:10 And the Spirit of the LORD Ruach a common noun adjective describing or belong to the Proper Noun Yahweh Out of respect – some translators capitalize the word spirit as a Proper Noun – but in this verse it is only an adjective describing GOD – because all translators throughout history know/understand that the Ruach is God – the Spirit of God – therefore the Holy Spirit You also missed that the csc code also called it a “conjunction waw”The word ruah has an extra vav / waw in – indicating it connection to / belonging to www.hebrew4christians.com/Grammar/Unit_One/Aleph-Bet/Vav/vav.html(page won’t allow copy and paste) “The Mystery of vav – the First use of it is in Gen 1:1 The placement of the vav suggest two of its connective powers ... By joining heaven and earth it implies the connection between the spiritual and earthly matters" The spirit is connected to God – belongs to – is of God – inseparableHuh – grammar – imagine that------------ Man was created on Day 1 SHow me a verse where man was created from day 1Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, And creation was over in 6 Days – no new angels created – no new archon – no new men Everything after that was 3 dimensional biological pro-creationJer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/12339-preexistence(The Harsidic Jewish view)"Before God created the world He held a consultation with the souls of the righteous." Enoch speaks of an assembly of the holy and righteous ones in heaven under the wings of the Lord of the spirits, with the Elect (the Messiah) in their midst (xxxix. 4-7, xl. 5, lxi. 12); he mentions especially the "first fathers and the righteous who have dwelt in that place [paradise] from the beginning" (lxx. 4). In fact, it is a "congregation of the righteous" in heaven that will appear in the Messianic time (xxxviii. 3, liii. 6, lxii. 8), and "the Elect, who had been hidden, will be revealed with them" (xlviii. 6, lxii. 7). Likewise, it is said in IV Esd. vii. 28, xiii. 52, xiv. 9 that "the hidden Messiah will be revealed together with all those that are with him." Parsism casts light on the origin and significance of this belief also. In "Bundahis" (xxix. 5-6, xxx. 17) the immortals that come to the assistance of Soshians ("the Savior") are mentioned by name, and the number of the righteous men and damsels that live forever is specified as fifteen each (Windischman, "Zoroastrische Studien," 1863, pp. 244-249; comp. "the thirty righteous ones that stand before God all day preserving the world"; Gen. R. xxxvi.; Yer. 'Ab. Zarah ii. 40; Midr, Teh. Ps. v.; Suk. 45b has "the thirty-six righteous"). The Syriac Apoc. Baruch (xxx. 12) speaks of "a certain number of righteous souls that will come forth from their retreats at the advent of the Messiah" (comp. Yeb. 62a: "The son of David will not come until all the souls have left the cage" ["guf," "columbarium"]). Moses and the Patriarchs. Of the preexistence of Moses mention is made in Assumptio Mosis (i. 14): "He designed me and prepared me before the foundation of the world that I should be the mediator of the Covenant"; similarly in an apocryphon entitled "Joseph's Prayer," quoted by Origen in Johannem xxv., opp. iv. 84, where Jacob says, "I am an angel of God and a primeval spirit, the first-born of all creatures, and like me were Abraham and Isaac created before any other work of God. I am invested with the highest office in the face of God and invoke Him by His ineffable name." The Patriarchs are, indeed, declared to have been part of the Merkabah (Gen. R. lxxii. 7; comp. the bridal gown of Asenath, "prepared from the beginnings of the world").
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2021 4:56:21 GMT -5
Wow Dave you are an excellent teacher, showing me Hebrew grammar. Thanks.
And I didn't know this Jewish stuff and writings spoke as they do. How interesting. No wonder you believe as you do.
Gerald Schroeder (a Jewish professor) speaks of this verse
Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
to do with relativity of time, not meaning human souls were born before they were required, but I read the presentation with interest.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on May 23, 2021 6:45:31 GMT -5
Wow Dave you are an excellent teacher, showing me Hebrew grammar. Thanks. I don’t even know Hebrew grammar – but I do and can translate Greek and know more about translation in general
Now you Ponder this Gen 1:2 (KJV) … the Spirit of God … Gen 1:2 (TLV) … the Ruach Elohim ... Gen 1:2 (OJB) … the Ruach Elohim …
There is absolutely no reason for the word spirit to be capitalized in English We can talk about the hair of Robert – or the car of Robert – or the children of Robert Each phrase Robert is the Proper Noun – hair/car/and children are common nouns
So why do the translators capitalize Spirit of God? / Rauch Elohim? Absolutely no grammatical reason – no rule in language requires it – because all translators throughout history know/understand that the Ruach is God – the Spirit of God – therefore the Holy Spirit
Out of respect - When you speak of the Spirit of God – you are speaking of God – it is Holy
CULTURAL impact upon the language So many examples in English YES there are 100 types and brands of BEER – and you can call any one of them a BEER But so many people in America call everything a COKE – regardless if it is a Pepsi, a generic Cola, or whatever Roller Blade – is a company like Ford – that makes ’in-line skates ‘ Do we call every car we see a Ford – NO – but every in-line skate is a Roller Blade regardless of brand
Because we are of a Judeo-Christian culture – it just feels wrong not to capitalize God in all His Forms
And I didn't know this Jewish stuff and writings spoke as they do. How interesting. No wonder you believe as you do.
Again – let me say – the Jewish people never had an Old Testament Bible In fact – the Jewish people didn’t really have a Bible (all under one cover) – they had a library of scrolls – temple scrolls And – this is the important point I want to make with you = it was a much larger library than just the (LXX) commissioned by the Egyptian Pharaoh, Ptolomus, around 250BC Egypt
The (LXX) was not an instrument of the Hebrew religion It was commissioned by a secular source
And because it was in the common language of the First Christian it became the back story for Christianity – later sanctioned by Rome
BUT– this is the important point I want to make with you = it did not / does not represent the bulk of what Biblical era Jews considered valuable and worthy of instruction If a Jew had a copy of a writing by King Solomon – they treated it with respect
Let me say this also - as a friend You are also missing the relevance of the inter-testament period The period of Judaism in which the precept of the resurrection is introduced The period of Judaism in which the precept of Ezk 8 -9 and the worship of Tammuz are explained
The other pre-christian religion that plagued the Jews of their time
Tammuz – born on Dec 25th – the women of the Temple were weeping 40 days for Tammuz because he was killed by a bore at age 40 (Catholic lent) And the mother of Tammuz - Ishtar – fell to earth in an egg – at the spring equinox - changed a bird into an egg laying rabbit
And all Roman Christendom - after Christmas celebrate Easter Sunday with a ham dinner and an Easter Eggs - on the spring equinox instead of Passover
Rome – is simply the reemergence of that old abomination of Ezk 8-9
There is nothing new under the sun
Gerald Schroeder (a Jewish professor) speaks of this verse Gen 2:4 to do with relativity of time, not meaning human souls were born before they were required, but I read the presentation with interest.
If souls are created as required – and only God can create living energy / spirit Biology / matter certainly cannot create living energy Then your God is busy in an on-going creation process all the time
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
God made it all – and turned it loose – the Contest unfolds Once in a while – God reaches down – and uses someone (anyone he wants) to keep His Plan on track Sometimes he reaches down and uses a Moses – sometimes God uses His prosecutor satan – sometimes God uses evil spirits – sometimes God used archon – sometimes God uses nature
God made it all – the Contest unfolds Once in a while – God reaches down – and uses someone (anyone he wants) to keep His Plan on track
God made man – and turned him loose into the World of the Great Red Dragon- With the Free Will to be devoured by the Beast Why? – the Reward of the Prodigal Son From God we came – and to God we all return – The Prodigal Sons are rewarded Who are the Prodigal Sons – believers – believers with faith – and Born Again Christian the First Fruits
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2021 14:24:04 GMT -5
If souls are created as required – and only God can create living energy / spirit Biology / matter certainly cannot create living energy Then your God is busy in an on-going creation process all the time
R" Isn't it easier to say, all gametes arose from Eve, the ongoing process of gamete production arises from the first woman and the first man.
I relate to the divine DNA code implanted into humans in Eden, and the presence of the HS allowing the flow of the Father into the DNA code, causing the code to become living. The DNA code is not added further after Adam and Eve, the seeds of the woman continue from Eve.
And what's wrong with God being busy? Doesn't he note the single fall of a sparrow from the sky?
You like the Prodigal Son don't you? It's a nice story, to imagine the Father is daily waiting for me to fully return...what return is this?
Re 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (KJV)
the Prodigal Son returns doing this.
Shalom
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