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Post by Dave on May 5, 2021 10:27:02 GMT -5
Isa 40:28; 55:8-9; Job 5:9; 11:7; 36:22-23: 36:26; Psa 139:1-6; Pro 25:2; Rom 11:33-34; 1 Cor 2:11 If I believed that God was a corporal thing made of matter Then I could comment your worldly example of matter
E=mc2
The only way can describe the E is as the 'Absolute Potential' or a singularity You want to only discuss the m and you deny the c2
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2021 14:33:20 GMT -5
Isa 40:28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts
SO now we cannot discuss love... too deep, not allowed, mystery how love works
ahab and ahabuh, not allowed to consider....
God is love
How can a father love on it's own?
Nobody has ever seen the Father shape, yet you say Jesus was the Father on earth in a human body?
Cannot discuss how the love of Jesus works....
Mr 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
Ro 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery,
Ro 16:25 ¶ Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
1Co 15:51 ¶ Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will,
Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery;
Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery:
Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations,
Col 2:2 the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
Eze 20:49 Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! they say of me, Doth he not speak parables?
Mt 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Funny you have a wife showing ahabuh and you the husband showing ahab, but you cannot understand the spirit of love between the marriage of one.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on May 5, 2021 23:13:34 GMT -5
God is love How can a father love on it's own?
I have not been taught to doubt God There are many fathers on earth that will tell you love is unrequited
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2021 14:14:18 GMT -5
There are many fathers on earth that will tell you love is unrequited
R I feel sad for you, you follow the traditions and precepts of men. And follow what scholars say and have said for thousands of years.
I follow the torah only, I do not follow the scholars of men.
Here is what your scholars say about love:
Unrequited love or one-sided love is love that is not openly reciprocated or understood as such by the beloved. The beloved may not be aware of the admirer's deep and strong romantic affection, or may consciously reject it. The Merriam Webster Online Dictionary defines unrequited as "not reciprocated or returned in kind".
So love can be not openly reciprocated or understood as such by the beloved.
So love can be not reciprocated or returned in kind".
What a stupid thought. Now you have introduced the idea that RA exists even in love.
If such a thing is possible, and it might be in a fallen world because of sin, I might weakly agree with you, But in the Utopian world of sinlessness where sin and RA is never allowed to exist perfect love is always providing and responding.
Why even your scholars admit that by saying "love that is not reciprocated or returned in kind", meaning love that is not responded to.
So where do I get this idea that love is both providing and responding? From torah studies of love, there are two Hebrew words for love, ahab and ahabuh.
Not 3 or 4 types of love as in the Greek. The Greek has a beastly sexual form of loving, while the Hebrew does not. Maybe in a fallen sinful world, the perfect flesh of humans can become like that, but not in a perfect Utopian universe, our flesh with its soul is perfect and without Ra of any kind.
Now the famous Bible verse John 3:16
Elohiym so ahab the world... This the love providing...
that He gave the world His Son.... This is love providing ....
that whosoever.... love is relational, and it is written here.... if the Son were an expression, than this word could not be written.... but the Son is just as a simile of humans as the Son is also a simile of the Father. This is obviously a Family simile, not some dreamed up modalism you follow.
supporteth the SON, shall have everlasting living. The is love responding.
IN fact faith means to respond to the Words of the Father In fact faith means to support the Father In fact faith is the means to grow, walk and live in the Father's love.
And if love that provides, is not responded to, than the love is not completed.
For example a battery is full of love ready to flow outwards and do some providing, while you the circuit of that flow, does some receiving. But while you receive that love, you also respond by providing love from your response. In other words when electricity flows the flow is not one sided. The battery source is aware of the disturbance to the love being provided, at the speed of light, while the individual atoms receiving that love do so very slowly. Both the battery pulses and the individual atoms vibrate as that love flows. So both entities provide love and receive love. An example of electrons providing love is when excited enough they jump into space and move back again radiating light waves as particles into space.
Notice some more stuff from your secular scholars on love:
What is the meaning of unrequited love? That is called unrequited love—love that is not returned or rewarded. It is a one-sided experience that can leave us feeling pain, grief, and shame .
So if the Provider providing love is not returned or rewarded, this one-sided experience that can leave the Father feeling pain, grief, and shame .
Not ideal for the Father is it? Sounds like RA to me, and something that happens only in a fallen world with SIN in it.
But Gnostic writings tell you the Father lives with RA all the time, so somehow must tolerate SIN and RA as natural elements of rebellion against Him? Why even the Father created RA creature called archons to help the Father develop a perfect respond to His love of providing.
SO let me get this right, raping a girl will help her respond to me love more fully? Verbally abusing my wife makes her love me more fully? Tempting my wife to kill other people for fun is a part of our love relationship becoming perfect. Getting drunk on beer helps both of us have a happy merry time. Something is wrong with your idea of GOD? Why would love require testing? What kind of testing are you suggesting anyway?
Here are the ten principles of love, and I will write what you think your Father in heaven asked his RA creatures to do as well.
I am your Saviour. The RA creature is your Saviour.
I am your covering. The RA creature is your covering, let's be naked, and empower ourselves using ourselves, Self rules.
I am your power. The RA creature is your power. Listen to me. Lets be arrogance and proud and follow self, do what we want to do, not follow others.
I am your sharing of time. The RA creature wants us to have a happy time, not a long time following rules of time. Time is disrespected. Rat race of time instead. No rest is set aside for anything, not even the land. It's greed, greed and exploiting time.
Now for love that responds:
I am family. So respect family. The RA creature says, I AM: respect me, be disobedient to parents, be modal.
I am living. SO respect life. The RA creature says, Who cares. Kill, murder and have fun. If we are all going to die, the RA creature as well, let's get busy and have fun dying.
I am relational. So respect relationships. The RA creature says, lets destroy relationships, fluid gender, sexually sex ourselves, forget body designs, let's design ourselves anyhow we like.
I am physical. SO respect my stewardship. The RA creature says, let's steal, and do greedy stuff, exploit the poor and be the rich, only the strong survive, Tread on the weak. If you have a need or want, take it, do as you want.
I am truth. SO respect my words or witness. The RA creature says who cares about words, it's fun to deceive and make double face talk. Corruption is a better system.
I am your desire. Desire me. The RA creature says Desire me and my ways, desire my world.
Something wrong with your theory of faith Dave, if you think the Father wanted every aspect of His love to be destroyed intentionally just to make free will creatures want to love the Father in a response.
However notice what happens when GOD loves us in a fallen world of sin and RA.
Ho 13:4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me. 5 ¶ I did know thee in the wilderness, in the land of great drought. 6 According to their pasture, so were they filled; they were filled, and their heart was exalted; therefore have they forgotten me.
The passage begins with the first of the ten commandments of love that provides. So the Lord provides pasture and the sheep eat joyfully. But later when they are filled, their heart is exalted and they forget their Saviour, and sin again.
So how does a supporter of GOD overcome this problem?
One must give away the fruit of love that provides.... so we in turn do not become selfish.
Notice the heart, is a double pressure pump... love comes from the lungs providing O2, power from God, and is immediately given away to other cells, and returns un-refreshed to repeat the cycle again.
Each Sabbath in time, our love must be given away to others, so by giving away our love, we are able to receive more of his love. That's how it works to overcome this problem of self and selfish attitude.
But instead we have a world of rich and poor, loved and unloved. Money prevents this RA world from becoming a world of equality. In the Acts, all the supporters gave up their money freely for others to freely share. This kind of love is rare, but is an example of the perfection God wants from us when we understand love fully.
Ro 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Here the Father provided a love that escapes sinning, and while we were sinning Jesus died for us, so we humans can escape sinning. What is sinning? Love that goes missing. A light beam that never returns. A beam of light that fails to bounce off something and return back to GOD, who gave it. Science has invented black holes, I doubt this idea, God's light always finds and always returns. I see a black hole as a door into another universe.
Anyhow, Dave, God's love is the only mover of sin once we understand the cost of saving us from sin, shall we ever be motivated to love and be loved, hence become loving as God is loving.
Love does not need testing. Love only requires us to respond. A beggar in the street begs for love. And we walk on by without regard to his lack of love in his life? As James said
Jas 2:14 ¶ What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
If you have love, you will become a provider of love. You will seek one who can respond to your love of providing.
You say the serpent never sinned when Eve sinned. So the serpent loved Eve and allowed Eve to obtain more love than before? So it was her mission to understand that having a Saviour die for missing-love, would make love more manifest than ever before? Isn't this a contradiction?
SO knowing all these thousands of years of RA makes us develop a deeper more fully respectful attitude of love and loving? Seeing snow, the beauty of snow in the RA world, I shall never see snow in the next world. Many things I miss. Is this sad, that my tears continue because RA has so many different things of RA God made in this RA world for me? like snow and rain, never see them again in the next world of perfection.
DO I miss snow and rain, friction and walking on the ground, do I miss murder and rape and money and greed and food with killing in it?
What does Scripture say?
Re 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Why we shall forget all the older love GOD made for us in the RA world of SIN. We shall not miss snow, or rain, or rape or murder or heat ...
These things pass away... only one RA remains, the scars on Jesus human body, and yet Jesus is fully divine. Was this a more fully developed love? Was SIN worth doing this to our sinless SON of divinity? Where are these RA creatures now? They do not exist? Why not? Because the Father never created them doing RA in the first place. Only SIN and SINNERS are destroyed.
And you think only humans have free will. So do the angels.
Maybe even other creatures, like dogs. I would love to ask my dog what he thinks of Jesus love? But my dog reminds me of love. Love that surrenders. I need to be more like my dog, and respond so easily.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on May 14, 2021 7:35:47 GMT -5
I follow the torah only, I do not follow the scholars of men. Incorrect – you follow the precepts of Ellen White – the wife of an elder of a failed prophesy
Here is what your scholars say about Unrequited love: Unrequited love or one-sided love is love that is not openly reciprocated or understood as such by the beloved. The beloved may not be aware of the admirer's deep and strong romantic affection, or may consciously reject it. The Merriam Webster Online Dictionary defines unrequited as "not reciprocated or returned in kind". What a stupid thought.
YES Robert – there are many people in this world that do not know God – or even know of God What of all the people in China during the ahl and agl Did they know about YWHY – did they respond to God’s love
What of the American Indian before White man came to America – did they respond to God’s love
What of all the ahl 99% - did they know YHWY
Elohiym so ahab the world... This the love providing... that He gave the world His Son.... This is love providing .... that whosoever.... love is relational, and it is written here
So – everyone in the world Loves God back? Cool there are no problems in the world – ever person on the planet knows and loves God – now that is special If everyone in the world knows and loves God – why did Jesus have to die on the cross
Notice some more stuff from your secular scholars on love:
What is the meaning of unrequited love? That is called unrequited love—love that is not returned or rewarded. It is a one-sided experience that can leave us feeling pain, grief, and shame .
So if the Provider providing love is not returned or rewarded, this one-sided experience that can leave the Father feeling pain, grief, and shame .
OK- it saddens God that man continually commit spiritual suicide This is the pain – of the rsk – of letting the Prodigal Son go into the WORLD
Not ideal for the Father is it? Sounds like RA to me, and something that happens only in a fallen world with SIN in it. The Father does want to loose anyone – but many are called but few are choosen
SO let me get this right, raping a girl will help her respond to me love more fully? Verbally abusing my wife makes her love me more fully? WOW – there is that serious Robert I have come to know and you wonder why you fail to understand - or why others do not take you seriously
Ro 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
YES! – the GRACE of God means He loves us even when we don’t love Him back, or don’t deserve His love YES! – love is unrequited
You say the serpent never sinned when Eve sinned. So the serpent loved Eve and allowed Eve to obtain more love than before? Seriousness
And you think only humans have free will. So do the angels. Sorry Robert – please demonstrate how one of your intelligent fallen angels repent Even the demons that spoke to Jesus knew they could not / would not
If you satan God is as intelligent as you make him – why doesn’t he repent Answer – because it is written that he won’t – therefore he can’t or scripture would fall apart Everyone has a role to play
Please tell me why it is a sin for angels to obey the Lord
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2021 16:51:24 GMT -5
If your satan God is as intelligent as you make him – why doesn’t he repent
Have you never read of humans that refuse to repent. There is a condition you agree with already with me, the condition of the unpardonable sin, in you also agree with me, that Sodom people were killed because they reached a point where God could no longer allow them to be living under His Grace. So God's grace has limits.
The Scripture does not talk much about angels repenting or not repenting, but since the angels are similar to humans, we can predict from how humans are treated with SIN, that the angels are treated in a similar way.
So yes many millions of sinning angels would have repented, but many refused to repent. One reason why SINNERS do not repent, is because Sin in fun, and Self is fun and love is seen as a weak power.
Shalom Shabbat
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Post by Dave on May 14, 2021 17:10:07 GMT -5
The Scripture does not talk much about angels repenting or not repenting, but since the angels are similar to humans.
Scripture says nothing about repenting angels because it is a myth
Cows, termites, frogs, and evn lice were all created for a purpose - an assigned role / function within God's creation - they just do what they do (self preservation)
Angels are created for a purpose - they do as their assigned an assigned role / function within God's creation - they just do what they do (praise and serve)
Archon are created differently for a different purpose - they do as they do an assigned role / function within God's creation - they just do what they do (Keep man focused upon WORLD)
Man was created for a purpose - an assignment - an assigned role / function within God's creation - to witness to the WORLD and all the heaves God's Glory
Man is supposed to do his commission BUT Man is the creature that was also gifted with Free Will
The Free Will to live up to his commission - or choose not to The Free Will to return to the Father as a Prodigal Son Or - the Free Will to choose WORLD (and choose not to return) - our choice
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2021 16:15:27 GMT -5
Cherub creatures Dave are intelligent beings closest to GOD, and somehow you assume these creatures have no free will to love and be loved. So how does God's love work than if there are no creatures who respond to the Creators love of Providing? And how does a creature closest to GOD show God love, so God can respond? A automaton robotic response is not LOVE, that is merely at most what a dumb creature programmed to do what do.
We have been through this before, but you refuse to admit.... Parrots have free will, they choose to love or to mock, just as humans can, but unlike humans cannot choose to be saved from their sinning.
Dogs also choose to be loved and can choose to do naughty things too, what we humans term sin, but they are not allowed to choose a Saviour to save them from their sinning.
Only humans on earth have this privilege.
SO back to cherubs, closest creatures to God.
Jesus called one cherub a father of lies, a murderer. That implies free will.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
This passage has cherub written twice, and the words perfect, without sin, and the word chata, with sin, thus this cherub had free will to not sin and free will to sin.
But you ignore these verses about cherub.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on May 16, 2021 3:15:38 GMT -5
Dear Robert I have not said much here because it is obvious that that my words mean little. I have no opinion on the gnosic material presented here. However, you have said something that must be addressed. Dave writes: " See – you have two Kings and two godsYes I have two Kings and two gods opposing each other. What's wrong with that? Everything is wrong with that. This is the adopted theology of the Zoroastrians, brought into Christianity by the Catholic Church. What form of Christianity preaches that satan is a god in equal standing with the Creator? I know who you areBut you ignore these verses about cherub.Precept upon precept, line upon line your theology must be validated buy the bulk of scripture Scripture must validate itselfSo the opponent is only an opponent to Job, in Job's story? Fair enough So where would you go looking to see if "opponent" actually "opposes" GOD? Line upon line, here and there, remember, how to read Scripture? And your answer isAt least we have discovered the value of line by line – it doesn’t matter if it goes against Catholic doctrine AND - we come full circle yet againYou admit that you specifically follow the precept of a woman You admit that you are not serious about studying language, grammar, or syntax You deny there is One True God You deny the divinity of Jesus Christ You deny the spirit And you believe that satan is a god of evil I know who you are
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2021 16:37:42 GMT -5
Dave there are dozens of verses that speak of the Opposer opposing. The Hebrew word adversary means just that, a Being who opposes the work God wants to do within humanity, its called salvation. Listen to my email I received today from the Jews: In just a few hours, the Feast of Weeks (Shavuot) begins here in Israel.
"Even though rockets are raining down on Israel, and Jews are being killed in the explosions, the Biblical Holiday will be celebrated.
Around the world, work grinds to a halt as the Jewish community celebrates God's blessings through the abundance of new crops.
"On the day of firstfruits, when you present to the LORD an offering of new grain during the Festival of Weeks [Shavuot], hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work." (Numbers 28:26)
The celebration of the giving of the Torah and the Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit) on the same day, as well as the offering of thanksgiving to God for the first fruits, reveals something wonderful about God's priorities.
God wants us to know His Ways and be empowered by His Ruach to live holy lives, bearing much fruit in Him.
"And I will put My Ruach within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes and be careful to obey My rules." (Ezekiel 36:27)Why does this Jewish email write "My Ruach" rather the KJV is "My Spirit", because the spirit is the ruach, not the soul as you claim. Indeed the ruach already is allowing each wicked person to breathe and be living, so they continue their evil and sin. Indeed the rockets that rain down on Israel today over 1000 missiles hit by the Iron dome, over Jerusalem, is proof somebody or something hates Israel faith, even though Israel are not all following and supporting God. When you finally support God in faith, an extra breathing of salvation is imparted within you, as this verse says here, God will put His Ruach within you. This is not to mean another HS because the ruach is a medium, and the HS is already living in humans, wicked or faithful, its means as it reads, more of the personal powers of the Father flow into us, via the agency of the HS. "Today, very few Jewish People know Yeshua or His Ruach, but you can make a difference. Please help us reach them with the Good News of Yeshua this Shavuot!"SO sad for this email to conclude with these words, yet all Israel tomorrow celebrate Penecost, while the rockets fall over the city skyline. And you say these are only archons who oppose man, not oppose God? Where does all this intense hatred of God and God's salvation come from? Certainly God did not intentionally design archons to fuel this hatred, as you claim, doing God's designed will. Does the word "satan in both verb and noun forms" mean oppose? Yes Ps 38:20 They also that render evil for good are mine adversaries; because I follow the thing that good is. 21 Forsake me not, O LORD: O my God, be not far from me. 22 Make haste to help me, O Lord my salvation. (KJV)I begin here with a verb form of satan, and salvation, and adonay, and man. Man must disdain the ra and support the tov , you agree with this. But you render RA as TOV, and this makes you an adversary, one who opposes this principle of salvation. God cannot create archons intentionally who make RA seem tov, as if GOD can make RA for good, doing His will. This verse disagrees with your creation of archons by GOD. God would not create RA for Good, that would make God an adversary. Ps 71:13 Let them be confounded and consumed that are adversaries to my soul; let them be covered with reproach and dishonour that seek my hurt. In this next context of the verb form of satan, there are adversaries that attack our soul. This prayer also speaks of salvation, so these adversaries also attack our salvation of our soul. Ps 109:4 Than the entire Prayer of 109 speaks of the Saviour condemned on the earth by men (only men ?) or by other adversaries (which are also named?). Ps 109:3 They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause. 4 For my love they are my adversaries (satan-verb): but I give myself unto prayer. 5 And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love.Jesus was condemned by human judges without a cause, they invented evils against him. 6 ¶ Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan (satan-noun) stand at his right hand.Here the satan-noun is used to refer to some Being who functions as a collective source of an adversary against Jesus, even though human agencies attacked Jesus, as well as humans who seek salvation, the power of Jesus that saves our soul. And here we see both satan-verb and satan-noun, both used to set the stage to identify this adversary. Zec 3:1 ¶ And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan (satan-noun) standing at his right hand to resist (satan-verb) him. 2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? Where is this happening? And why is it happening? And why to the high priest? Is this a judgement like normal court rooms with Satan as a prosecutor? no , obviously since a high priest is mentioned it is happening inside the temple where salvation occurs. The only temple services that seem to address this issue of being saved or not being saved is the Day of Atonement. We have looked at this before, so I will try to find other verses.... ABOUT THE AUTHOR Dr. Israel Drazin served for 31 years in the US military and attained the rank of brigadier general. He is an attorney and a rabbi, with master’s degrees in both psychology and Hebrew literature and a PhD in Judaic studies. As a lawyer, he developed the legal strategy that saved the military chaplaincy when its constitutionality was attacked in court, and he received the Legion of Merit for his service. Dr. Drazin is the author of more than 50 books on the Bible, philosophy, and other subjects.What this Jew writes" Jews are no different than people of other religions. There is no subject that every Jew accepts. Even rabbis differ in what they think is right. Many Jews reject the notion of the existence of demons and even angels. They feel, like Maimonides, that there is no mention of demons in the Hebrew Bible and the term angel in the Bible is a metaphor for the laws of nature. Satan in the book of Job is not a demon, but simply an advocate for a differing opinion. Also, the story of Satan in Job is only a fable. Many others, like Rashi, are convinced that demons exist. The first group insists that God is all-powerful and needs no helpers. Those who accept the existence of angels and demons think that they serve a divine purpose. The following is a sample of both ideas. Rationalists repudiate the notion of Satan, angels and demons
Rational Jewish thinkers like Saadiah Gaon, Abraham ibn Ezra and Maimonides insist that biblical, midrashic, and talmudic declarations that contradict reason, science, and philosophy must be interpreted in a rational manner.
Saadiah asserts that Satan in Scripture’s Job is a human, a contemporary of Job, who despises Job. The “sons of God,” also mentioned in Job, are members of a religious group. God, the book is telling us, does not interfere and allows Job’s human enemies to torment him.Ibn Ezra offers four possible explanations of Genesis 6, which speaks about b’nei haElohim marrying women: (1) The b’nei haElohim are children of nobles, (2) people of lofty character, (3) exalted descendants of Seth who yielded to lust and cohabitated with the ethically inferior descendants of Cain, or (4) people with astrological knowledge (ibn Ezra, like most people of his age, believed in the efficacy of astrology) who chose proper wives based on their superior knowledge. He rejects the definition “sons of God,” implying the existence of angels.
Maimonides contends that since God is good, God created only good things. Thus, it is inconceivable that a Satan or evil heavenly beings exist. In his Guide of the Perplexed 2:6 he states that the term “angel” does not refer to heavenly beings but denotes anything that implements the laws of nature, even rain and snow. In his Mishneh Torah, Hilkhot Avodah Zarah 11:16, he flatly denies the truth of the existence of angels and demons: “All of these things are lies and untruths with which the ancient idol worshippers deceived the people, to entice them to follow them. It is not fitting for Israel, who are a really wise nation, to be attracted by such vanities, or to suppose that they have any value…. Whoever believes in these things and their like and thinks that they are genuine and a kind of wisdom, but that the Torah forbids them (even though they work) belongs to the fools and the deficient in knowledge.” Others, like Rashi, relying on Midrashim, were convinced that demons exist
The eleventh century French Bible commentator Rashi (1040–1105), who explained Scripture with Midrashim that he felt fit into the plain meaning of the text, explains the story of Jacob and Joseph in Genesis 37:2 by paraphrasing the Midrash Genesis Rabba (edited in the beginning of the fifth century C.E.). “Jacob wanted to dwell in peace, but the troubles of Joseph sprang upon him. The righteous want to dwell in peace, but the Holy One Blessed Be He said, ‘Isn’t what is prepared for them in the world-to-come enough for the righteous, but they want to dwell in peace (also) in this world!’”The Midrash itself uses stronger and more figurative language, “When the righteous wish to dwell in tranquility in this world, Satan comes and accuses them: ‘They are not content with what is in store for them in the hereafter, but they wish to dwell at ease even in this world!’ The proof (that the righteous are acting improperly) lies in the fact that the patriarch Jacob wanted to live at ease in this world, whereupon he was attacked by Joseph’s Satan.”" Maimonides contends that since God is good, God created only good things." I side with Maimonides on this idea, but not his idea that there are no angels. Clearly the word cherub refers to creatures called angels. '(3) exalted descendants of Seth who yielded to lust and cohabitated with the ethically inferior descendants of Cain,' Yes, some Jews do have good ideas of the Sons of God. So the opinion of Jews is the Bible is silent about the functional role of Satan, and where SIN came from. I could also argue Jews do not understand amanuah and the role of amanuah with salvation by Jesus?How Does a Jew Attain Salvation?
Christianity maintains that all men are doomed to sin, and everyone will go to everlasting hell unless they accept Jesus as their savior.
Judaism has always held that we do not need that sort of salvation, for we are not doomed or damned at birth. We are not doomed or fated to sin. Quite the contrary. The Torah says: “If you do good, won’t there be special privilege? And if you do not do good, sin waits at the door. It lusts after you, but you can dominate it.” (Genesis 4:7) In other words, you can do good, and if you do, things will be better for you. If you do not do good, sin wants to be partners with you. But you can control sin, you can control your evil desires, and you can be good.So we have free will, and that is what Judaism has always believed, because that is what the Torah teaches. The Torah does not teach — or even mention — that we are “born in sin,” or that we are fated to sin. Just the opposite. We have the ability to choose.Rob agrees "We are no born in sin" We become sinners from birth choosing to follow our propensities of sin" Which means that we can be good, or we can be evil. It’s up to us. And if can be good, that means we can be righteous. I cannot understand how or why Christians like to say that no one can be righteous in the eyes of G-d. The Torah says otherwise. Rob notes" Herein lies the dilemma. This article does not even discuss amanuah. I often say to missionaries that if they choose to believe that all Gentiles are sinful, I would have to disagree, but I won’t bother to argue the point. It’s their own people, let them say what they want. Rob notes" Herein lies the dilemma. "to believe" is not seen as amanuah. But if they choose to say that all people, including Jews, are sinful and cannot be righteous, I have to strongly disagree, because the Torah says quite the opposite: “All your nation is righteous, they will inherit the earth eternally; the shoot that I have planted, the work of My hands, something to be proud of” (Isaiah 60:21). So we are righteous, and Hashem is proud of us.And it says, “Open the gates, so that the righteous nation that keeps the faith may enter” (Isaiah 26:2).
Rob notes" Herein lies the dilemma. Yes but only if you do amanuah correctly. We Children of Israel are righteous. For the Torah says so. Of course, we must uphold the Torah, or otherwise we might cease to be righteous. But as long as we keep the Torah, we are righteous.
Rob notes" Herein lies the dilemma. shama (guard the torah) verses amanuah the torah (support the torah) there is a difference here... Paul writes in Romans 10: 1 to 3.
The Prophets of the Torah warned us about this many times. They often called us wicked. When? When we did not obey the Commandments of the Torah. Yet never once in all of the Jewish Bible did the Prophets chastise us for not believing in Jesus! Not once!
I also have to wonder: if no one can be righteous in the eyes of G-d, how can the Torah call Noah righteous (Genesis 6:9, 7:1), as just one example? “Noah walked with G-d,” the Torah says. Obviously you can be righteous and you can walk with G-d without the help of Jesus. Rob reads" Hmm? Maybe the article does not know Jesus is YHWH. Hashem called Moses was a trusted servant, and closer to Him than any other prophet. Moses spoke directly to Hashem, and Hashem spoke directly to Moses (Numbers 12:6-8). No mention was made of Jesus.
Rob reads" Hmm? Maybe the way we read Hebrew is wrong? Some say the common name have no prefix... Really? Gen 7 YHWH spoke to-NOAH the prefix "lamed is attached to Noah" word meaning comfort.
The problem is that Christians do not understand the meaning of the concept “righteousness.” They think it means that one has never sinned. Never sinning is almost impossible. The Torah says that “There is no person on earth so righteous that he does only good and never sins” (Eccl. 7:20)
Rather, the definition of a righteous person is as taught in Proverbs 24:16: “The righteous fall even seven times and still get up, but the wicked stumble in evil.”
Being righteous does not mean that one never sins. It means that after you sin you get back up again, repent, and try again. You keep on trying. That is being righteous. Rob reads" Hmm? I thought righteous means "straight". Not only that, but even if you keep on trying, and you don’t succeed very well, and you have many sins, you can still be forgiven and go to Heaven. In the Book of Job (33:23) it says that if someone has even only one merit and 1000 sins, he is rescued from hell. So we are not doomed to hell.
That’s what Judaism teaches, as we see from the Torah. The Christian bible, on the other hand, teaches that there is no repentance after sinning. Here is what it says in the christian bible:
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
— 2 Peter 2:20-21
In other words, if anyone accepted Jesus as savior, and then sins, they are in worse trouble than they were before they accepted Jesus.
So what then is the advantage of accepting Jesus? It seems better to stay with Hashem! Hashem accepts repentance, and loves all those who turn away from sin, no matter how many times they have sinned and repented. “For the righteous stumble even seven times, but they get up again!”
And they are still called righteous!
And the wicked who repent are no longer called wicked.
Even when I have told the wicked that he will die, but then he repents, and he does justice and righteousness; he returns the collateral when he is supposed to, he repays what he stole, he begins to live by the Laws of Life, and does not do evil, he will live, and he will not die. All the sins that he committed will not be held against him, for he has begun to do judgment and righteousness; he shall surely live.
— Ezekiel 33:14-16Rob reads" Hmm? correct We see, therefore another fallacy of the Christians, who argue that “sin has separated us from a perfectly holy G-d.” We are not separated from Hashem at all. All we need to do is repent.
Rob reads" Hmm? But no, say the Christians. Repentance won’t work, for some reason that we cannot understand. They claim that “no one can be close to G-d without Jesus.”
This is completely wrong. The righteous live by their own faith. (Habbakuk 2:4) We do not gain life or atonement by the faith or righteousness of Jesus. We are masters of our own fate, because the choice to do good or bad is our own.Rob reads" Hmm? A complete disregard to the meaning of amanuah here. Was King David separated from G-d? Yet the Torah says about him that he did one thing wrong (1 Kings 15:5) and yet he was considered righteous and Hashem was with him. (See, for example, 1 Kings 11:34; 1 Kings 18:14).) Whenever a royal descendant of King David did the right thing, the Torah says about him that he followed in the ways of his ancestor David. (See, for example, 1 Kings 14:8; 2 Kings 18:3; 2 Kings 22:2; et al.)
Did Moses sin? Was he close to G-d or not? Did Abraham sin? Was he close to G-d or not?
And if you examine the Christian belief in this matter, you will find that many denominations believe that G-d only chooses those that G-d has previously decided to choose. In other words, G-d will accept into Heaven only on those whom He has decided to accept into Heaven, and we have no free will or choice! That means that we cannot even be good people if we try! It’s all up to G-d! “Many are called, but few are chosen.”
How is this merciful?
What about all those people who are not chosen? How do they attain “salvation?” Why can they not attain salvation, when it isn’t even their fault? That is possibly the cruelest doctrine I have ever heard! No matter what a person does, he will get Heaven only if G-d had previously chosen him to get Heaven! Everyone else goes to eternal hell! Rob reads" Hmm? where does this idea come from? In Judaism, it is entirely up to you. If you do good, you will get good.
Rob reads" Hmm? Rom 10: 1 to 3 doesn't agree. So Dave, I could equally pick on salvation as a theme, is this theme easily spelled out in the OT? Is Jesus in the OT so easily a Jew can find the Name? There are 67 verses that use Yashauh and 26 verses that use Satan, neither words are considered by Jews in the OT. Seems to me the torah is a riddle, a parable and hidden by those who cannot see. Maybe I am the one who is blind? You claim I follow EGW as a Hebrew English translator. That is correct. Yet I used Jeff Benner who knows nothing of EGW to verify her inspired translations against Jeff Benner's ancient Hebrew meanings, and they match 100%. That is a science study anybody can do, verify word meanings. It measures present messages. I went to Jeff Benner forum looking for Jew to verify Jeff's claim on Ancient Hebrew, but found none. I looked over the www for any religion verifying the English meaning of amanuah. There are only two. The LXX translation translates exodus 17:12 as "suppport" only here, once. As so does EGW, but she comments on the concept more than anybody else. That prayer which comes forth from an earnest, believing heart is the effectual, fervent prayer that availeth much. God does not always answer our prayers as we expect, for we may not ask what would be for our highest good; but in his infinite love and wisdom he will give us those things which we most need. Happy the minister who has a faithful Aaron and Hur to strengthen his hands when they become weary, and to hold them up by faith and prayer. Such a support is a powerful aid to the servant of Christ in his work, and will often make the cause of truth to triumph gloriously. GW92 32.2Yet EGW only uses this English meaning once, just as the Bible does once, salvation is hidden for a reason. I was surprised Roger Morneau also commented on prayer promises along similar lines, and got miracles of prayer power flows in his life. Shalom
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Post by Dave on May 16, 2021 19:31:41 GMT -5
Dave there are dozens of verses that speak of the Opposer opposing. Correct – 23+49 and we have discussed each and every one And in each verse – satan obeys God and opposes manContradicting SDA Theology and the Catholic Fallen Angel mythFeast of Weeks - Shavuot The celebration of the giving of the Torah and the Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit) on the same day, as well as the offering of thanksgiving to God for the first fruits, reveals something wonderful about God's priorities. OK – Lets use Ellen Whites logic – Quote ‘why would Christians receive eternal life, if they already have it?’ You claim man has no soul – we are not independent beings – we are just animals that the HS-Medium empowers and drives around So – why would God give man the HS – if we are already just the HS-medium Contradictory SDA Theology"And I will put My Ruach within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes and be careful to obey My rules." (Ezekiel 36:27)So – why would God give man the HS – if we are already just the HS-mediumJoh 14:16 I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper so He may be with you forever— Joh 14:26 But the Helper, the Ruach ha-Kodesh whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you everything and remind you of everything that I said to you. Joh 15:26 “When the Helper comes—whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—He will testify about Me. YES ROBERT – it is called being Born Again – being baptized by the Holy SpiritRom 8:10 But if Messiah is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the Spirit is alive because of righteousness. Rom 8:11 And if the Ruach of the One who raised Yeshua from the dead dwells in you, the One who raised Messiah Yeshua from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Ruach who dwells in you. Joh 3:6 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. So – why would God give man the HS – if we are already just the HS-mediumAnswer – Rom 8:16 The Ruach Himself bears witness with our ruach that we are children of God. Rom 8:16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God. Rom 8:16 The Holy Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God. Rom 8:16 God- Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God. YES ROBERT – it is called being Born Again – being baptized by the Holy Spirit"Today, very few Jewish People know Yeshua or His Ruach, but you can make a difference. Please help us reach them with the Good News of Yeshua this Shavuot!"
SO sad for this email to conclude with these words, yet all Israel tomorrow celebrate Penecost, while the rockets fall over the city skyline.
And you say these are only archons who oppose man, not oppose God?Let’s see – Iran and Hammas – with the blessing of Turkey, Russia, and China – is attacking God’s 1% on their own Promised Land
It appears as the fulfillment of scripture – not the opposite God wrote it – it must happen – it is all God’s Will / God’s Plan – only He is in control where does all this intense hatred of God and God's salvation come from? Certainly God did not intentionally design archons to fuel this hatred, as you claim, doing God's designed will.
Gen 3:15 I will put animosity between you and the woman—between your seed and her seed. He will crush your head, and you will crush his heel.” I will leave you to your personal SDA opinion – I will stick to scripture God did it – God’s Will / God’s Plan- only He is in controlDoes the word "satan in both verb and noun forms" mean oppose? YesCorrect – 23+49 verses and we have discussed each and every one And in each verse – satan obeys God and opposes manPs 71:13 Let them be confounded and consumed that are adversaries to my soul; let them be covered with reproach and dishonour that seek my hurt. In this next context of the verb form of satan, there are adversaries that attack our soul. This prayer also speaks of salvation, so these adversaries also attack our salvation of our soul. Ps 109:4YES RobertEph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities (ARCHON), against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. And you wrote extensively against this verse No such adversaries you claim – only your satan god of evil (cherub chata)Psa 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand. Psa 109:7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin. Here the satan-noun is used to refer to some Being who functions as a collective source of an adversary against Jesus, YES Robert – 100% the function of a PROSECUTOR Just as with Joshua in Zec 3 But you wrote extensively against this basic Christian precept as wellABOUT THE AUTHOR Dr. Israel Drazin What this Jew writes"
Jews are no different than people of other religions. There is no subject that every Jew accepts. Even rabbis differ in what they think is right. YES! – How refreshing – in each commentary within the Zohar five opinions are spoken. Rabbi A from 1200AD said this, but Rabbi B from 600 BC said something else, Rabbi from Russia said differently YES! – so refreshing – BOO to Catholic Righteous Arrogance – my way is right – and everyone else on the planet is wrong and FRACTURES into 2500 different Christian denominations of which SDA is a small part Jews fractured as well – two basic camps – Sadducees and PhariseesSadducees – do not accept the after-life and base salvation totally on the Law Pharisees – accept the after-life and the spirit Nicodemus was a Pharisee and Jesus discussed the spirit with him The money changers were Temple Sadducees = vipers Many Jews reject the notion of the existence of demons and even angels. They feel, like Maimonides, that there is no mention of demons in the Hebrew Bible and the term angel in the Bible is a metaphor for the laws of nature. YES Robert – the entire concept of Catholic Fallen Angels and it’s Halloween is a mythThe Jews have been face to face with the WORLD for centuries Even today – as the rockets fly – they know exactly who their enemy is The exact same enemy as the ahl – surrounding nations and their ‘other gods’ Satan in the book of Job is not a demon, but simply an advocate for a differing opinion. Correct – a servant in the service of the LordAlso, the story of Satan in Job is only a fable. YES! – Job was Moses, or a composite of any man / every man / an example of mankind Adam and Eve – could have also just been a composite of any man / every man / an example of mankind Or they could have been real individuals – either way the story remains the same – the precept remains Those who accept the existence of angels and demons think that they serve a divine purpose.YES – every creature was created for a divine purpose with creation – and each creature plays the role he was assigned Rational Jewish thinkers like Saadiah Gaon, Abraham ibn Ezra and Maimonides insist that biblical, midrashic, and talmudic declarations that contradict reason, science, and philosophy must be interpreted in a rational manner. BOOM – Sadducee – Talmudic Law Perhaps I should quote the Mormon - The Other Testiment of Jesus Christ - and call it SDA Both Christina so they must be identicle So the opinion of Jews is the Bible is silent about the functional role of Satan, and where SIN came from. Correction – satan is the heavenly procesutor And sin came into the WORLD because man choose to disobey God Resulting in gen 3:15Christianity maintains that all men are doomed to sin, and everyone will go to everlasting hell unless they accept Jesus as their savior. Judaism has always held that we do not need that sort of salvation, for we are not doomed or damned at birth. We are not doomed or fated to sin. Quite the contrary. The Torah says: “If you do good, won’t there be special privilege? And if you do not do good, sin waits at the door. It lusts after you, but you can dominate it.” (Genesis 4:7)
So we have free will, and that is what Judaism has always believed, because that is what the Torah teaches. The Torah does not teach — or even mention — that we are “born in sin,” or that we are fated to sin. Just the opposite. We have the ability to choose.
Rob agrees "We are not born in sin" We become sinners from birth choosing to follow our propensities of sin"Dave agrees – we are sinles up until our animal (yester ra) takes over control of our mindset / attitudeWhich means that we can be good, or we can be evil. It’s up to us. YEP! That choice is called FREE WILLOH – the the precept also taught in the ahl is that all men fall for (yester ra) once living in the flesh And the precept of Gen 6 = even the bane elohiym fell for (yester ra of the flesh) once they took human form Rob notes" Herein lies the dilemma. This article does not even discuss amanuah. I could also argue Jews do not understand amanuah and the role of amanuah with salvation by Jesus?DUH – You quote an article about apples – then argue it says nothing about oranges I absolutely do not follow your entire point Maybe you are confused – JEWS of the ahl are not ChristiansJews of the ahl are God’s chosen people – they are all saved because they live as Jews Celebrating God on Parade in front of the whole WORLD while rockets fly over head The ahl alive right in front of your eyes – today All Jews who practice are saved – after a proportional period of punishment – and that is why they sit Shiva of 7 days and say the Kadish for 11 months Did some of the JEWS develop personal relationships with God – YES Many – speaking to and hearing from – just like Paul and those Born Again and filled with the spirit But you write extensively against this But mock the gifts of the spirit and call it names I often say to missionaries that if they choose to believe that all Gentiles are sinful, I would have to disagree, but I won’t bother to argue the point. It’s their own people, let them say what they want.Rom 3:10 As it is written, “There is no one righteous—no, not one. Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. YES Robert – I have often notice your ability to deny scripture I am sure it impresses all the right peopleRob notes" Herein lies the dilemma. "to believe" is not seen as amanuah. YES Robert – I have said many times – belief is not the same as faith or as gnosisRob reads" Hmm? Maybe the article does not know Jesus is YHWH.STOP IT – YOU DENY CHRIST IS GOD – you call it modalityDouble speaker – Mr consistentThat’s what Judaism teaches, as we see from the Torah. The Christian bible, on the other hand, teaches that there is no repentance after sinning. 100% satanology BULL SHIT – repentance is open to all except the unpardonable sin of blasphomey against the Holy Spirit For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. - — 2 Peter 2:20-21 In other words, if anyone accepted Jesus as savior, and then sins, they are in worse trouble than they were before they accepted Jesus.Correct Robert – and this is why punishment is proportionalAll men are judged by their deeds, works, and fruit - whether you are a pagan, a Jew, or a Christian Deeds = you did a good thing for the right reason Works = your witness, what you do in your religeous walk - we all witness -God or WORLD Fruit = the affect of your witness - awakening other souljourners to the reality of God's Glory For the Jew Prorpotional Punishment last about a yearGnostic - TIME IS NOT LINEAR - a year could feel like forever or 2 minutes in God's realm You correctly point out - for those that are Born Again - it could be worseGnostic - some never graduate from punishment and end up in the Lake of Fire - the second death after tormented in Punishment For a Jew - one of the options availabe = reincarnation What of little Jimmy or the daughters of Job - innocent pawns in some one elses contest/testing What of aborted fetuses What of innocent victums of war Some are never given a chance to know the Lord in a souljourn Is this fair? Jews say not fair, but necessary in God's Plan - so they get a do-over Gnostic also say reincarnation is an option Neither say it happens to everyone all the time -only that the option existANDGod can grant Divine Pardon to all he choosesJesus was the Son of Man (biological) - that allowed the Son of God (Divine) to open that door to all of us through the ressurection To die in Christ is the Divine Pardon Just as Joshua - the Divine pardon plucks us from the fire - First Fruits In Judaism, it is entirely up to you. If you do good, you will get good. Really – is that the saga of the ahl – struggle after struggle – battel after battel One Human Rights Infraction after another In Judaism, it is entirely up to you. If you do good, you will get good. (after death – and why the Kadish is only prayed for 11 months) it is entirely up to you. If you do good, you will get good in this life is Hindu Karma
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2021 14:12:32 GMT -5
D" So – why would God give man the HS – if we are already just the HS-mediumR The breath of life (chay) is different to the breath of salvation (chayah) , both are carried by the medium onto supports of GOD. The breath of life is a flow from the Father The breath of salvation is a flow from the SON Initially the breath of salvation was a flow from the Father to His Son, who supported the Father as the memrah. Jesus only did this because only He was ever sinless. For sinners our only way of salvation is via the power of the Son, since the SON bridges sinners back to the Father. D So – why would God give man the HS – if we are already just the HS-mediumR not giving the medium as such, but a different flow of power from the Father. The flow of salvation from the Father, via the Son via the HS to humans who have sinned. D Joh 14:16 I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper R yes two helpers to the Father, Jesus and the HS both reach to help sinners. D" YES ROBERT – it is called being Born Again – being baptized by the Holy SpiritR yes, but the breath of salvation is different to the breath of life. One is the breath of chayah, the other is the breath of chay. D" It appears as the fulfillment of scripture – not the opposite God wrote it – it must happen – it is all God’s Will / God’s Plan – only He is in controlR Just because GOD knows all things, does not mean all things are approved by GOD, God can use RA for some good, yes, but not all things are approved by GOD. D" God did it – God’s Will / God’s Plan- only He is in controlR Gnostic writings do not have a problem or war with SIN does it? God is fighting a war over SIN, it began in heaven and continues on earth, by the same devil and his angels. D" Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities (ARCHON), against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.R you write this as one place in time for archons on earth only. Paul writes for two times, one in heaven arche, beginnings in heaven, and One on earth rulers of darkness of this world. You seem to forget the war in heaven also continues as a war on earth, this war is still going on, and has so for over 6,000 years. Its a war over SIN from the beginning (arche) over angels and later over humans. D" YES Robert – 100% the function of a PROSECUTOR Just as with Joshua in Zec 3 But you wrote extensively against this basic Christian precept as wellR You do not look up all the verses as you claim, a prosecutor you say? Where was the prosecutor in the Day of Atonement in the temple, as this scene is about? More like an accuser of the brethren. More like Scapegoat, who receives the confessed sins of the saved and allowed to roam until it dies. Not function of a prosecutor here on the Day of Atonement... show me scripture of any prosecutor in heaven or on earth helping God judge? God judges SIN alone... Look at Job, if this was a prosecutor in court, why does the prosecutor further attack Job, that is NOT the function of a prosecutor? More an accuser of the brethren. One who keeps humans sinning. Since when do prosecutors help the convicted with more crimes?
D" Also, the story of Satan in Job is only a fable. YES! R Job was a real person, as Satan is a real angel. D" Correction – satan is the heavenly prosecutorR Do you have any verses for this idea? a heavenly courtroom scene with a judge and prosecutor? There are no verses on all this... a temple is not a courtroom, different functions. Rob agrees "We are not born in sin" We become sinners from birth choosing to follow our propensities of sin"Dave agrees – we are sinles up until our animal (yester ra) takes over control of our mindset / attitudeR we have some truth in common D" Gnostic also say reincarnation is an optionR wow, the soul invades another biology and gets a second chance at salvation, heh? Shalom
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Post by Dave on May 18, 2021 1:20:28 GMT -5
D" So – why would God give man the HS – if we are already just the HS-medium The breath of life is a flow from the Father The breath of salvation is a flow from the SON Where is your Torah scripture of two breaths?
D So – why would God give man the HS – if we are already just the HS-medium R not giving the medium as such, but a different flow of power from the Father. So the HS isn’t really given – it is different than scripture says?
D Joh 14:16 I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper R yes two helpers to the Father, Jesus and the HS both reach to help sinners. So now you have two Holy Spirits – which one is the Comforter of the agl?
Two HS + one Father + the son who is just an angel named Michael - is this all your God head? Or are all the angels also apart of your god head pantheon of gods?
If man is already just a HS driven animal why does the HS have to help? You say man is just a biological animal empowered by the HS – no spirit – no soul Now you say the HS comes inside to help – to help who the other HS?
D" God did it – God’s Will / God’s Plan- only He is in control R Gnostic writings do not have a problem or war with SIN does it? DUH - Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned. Resulting in Gen 3:15
God is fighting a war over SIN, it began in heaven and continues on earth, by the same devil and his angels. WOW Robert – I hope your God is strong enough to win His war No one stands against My God – My God is omnipotent
D" Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities (ARCHON), against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. R you write this as one place in time for archons on earth only. Paul writes for two times, one in heaven arche, beginnings in heaven, and One on earth rulers of darkness of this world. You seem to forget the war in heaven also continues as a war on earth, this war is still going on, and has so for over 6,000 years. Its a war over SIN from the beginning (arche) over angels and later over humans. WOW Robert – is that your new grammar skills showing?
D" YES Robert – 100% the function of a PROSECUTOR Just as with Joshua in Zec 3 But you wrote extensively against this basic Christian precept as well R You do not look up all the verses as you claim, a prosecutor you say The passage is clear – I do not have to play a word game to cast doubt upon scripture
More like an accuser of the brethren. Accuse – that is what a prosecutor does as he opposes you in court
D" Gnostic also say reincarnation is an option R wow, the soul invades another biology and gets a second chance at salvation, heh?
Mock all you want – it matters not You would deny salvation to an entire school yard full of 1st graders if killed in an earthquake And you would deny salvation to the children of the holocaust
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2021 4:09:18 GMT -5
R The breath of life is a flow from the Father The breath of salvation is a flow from the SOND Where is your Torah scripture of two breaths?Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (chay); and man became a living soul. Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life ( chayah). R Hope these help D So – why would God give man the HS – if we are already just the HS-medium R not giving the medium as such, but a different flow of power from the Father.D So the HS isn’t really given – it is different than scripture says?R There are different flows in the medium, and different rates of flow depending upon the process of salvation (John's baptism for example verses Paul's and Peter's baptism)( I suspect this more empowered flow of salvation happened after Pentecost, when Jesus was glorified??) D Joh 14:16 I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper R yes two helpers to the Father, Jesus and the HS both reach to help sinners.D S o now you have two Holy Spirits – which one is the Comforter of the agl?R no Dave, Jesus is our help mate, a comforter and the HS is another comforter. D Two HS + one Father + the son who is just an angel named Michael - is this all your God head? Or are all the angels also apart of your god head pantheon of gods?R no need to mock Dave. A cherub is not divine, only the family of elohiym in heaven is. One functional mother, one function father, one function son. One divine family. The HS and the Son are comforters for sinners. Hope this helps D " If man is already just a HS driven animal why does the HS have to help? You say man is just a biological animal empowered by the HS – no spirit – no soul Now you say the HS comes inside to help – to help who the other HS?R you really get confused don't you? I never said we have no soul. (we just don't have an immortal soul) Dust is empowered by the Father with the breath of life, (not the HS), the HS is just a medium through the breath of life flows. You require a medium, otherwise if a sinner sinned the Father's power would destroy him immediately. But with a medium, the power of the Father is diminished and distorted so the sinner lives despite sinning. Hence the HS cannot function directly with the sinner either or the man would also die, so you need a medium. Mediums do not use their own power, they are agencies controlling the flow of some other source of power entering and leaving the media. Once matter becomes activated and living energy, the soul comes to be. Gen 2:7 Once this divine breath of life from the Father is prevented from flowing, administrated by the HS as an agency, the soul vanishes because the relationship of matter to GOD is broken. And the person dies. The HS medium returns back to GOD. If a sinner wants to be saved by Jesus, the power of Jesus flows via the medium of the HS into you, and you receive Jesus in all his glory keeping you living (chayah). Does this make sense to you? D" God is fighting a war over SIN, it began in heaven and continues on earth, by the same devil and his angels. WOW Robert – I hope your God is strong enough to win His war No one stands against My God – My God is omnipotentR so let me ask you a question: Dave the parent. You daughter decides to rebel and run away from home, do drugs, and live a life of sin. What can Dave do to stop this? No one stand against Dave the Parent. The Parent is more powerful than a child. Remember you are sinless and must remain sinless. You cannot smack the child, that is RA, a sin. You cannot speak loudly to the child in anger, that is a slender line of sin too. You can only love the child, love come with risk, so you have to let the child go in tears. Proud people see love as a weak force. What do you think? D" I hope your God is strong enough to win His warR Love is a weak force Dave, its not about force or being strong enough God looked forwards in time and forknew this problem of love, so made love into laws that a eternal and written down. Now these weak principles have teeth. If anybody breaks a small principle of love, the penalty is eternal non-existence. A law made by GOD. Now it is the law that depends your sinning cause you to cease living. God is able to offer you mercy and justice, forgiveness because a Divine Son offered to pay the penalty for sin (another story of grace). The law is eternal and unchangeable, and is strong enough to win any war against sin. God sees the end from the beginning, and knows all things. D" Accuse – that is what a prosecutor does as he opposes you in courtR No Dave, a prosecutor is not allowed to be an assessory to the crime. A prosecutor is not allowed to help you do the crimes and than also prosecute you. An accuser does this. Satan is accusing Joshua the high priest as a false high priest unable to save Israel during the Day of Atonement. What is the charge, seeing this is a simile of Jesus, our high priest? Satan found no sin in Jesus, but tried to get Jesus to sin, so the salvation process would fail, and Satan and his sinning angels woudl receive no death sentence. And you say these evil angels are doing God's will? Any creature helping God's son to sin is opposing GOD directly...three times Satan did this to Jesus, not the man only, but the SON of MAN, the divine in the man, Satan wanted the divine to do miracles, make the rocks bread. This is divine power as a miracle, but Jesus the divine would not test His Father to satisfy ego or pride. D" Mock all you want – it matters notR Sorry I didn't mean to mock, do sinners get a second change at achieving salvation? www.gotquestions.org/second-chance-salvation.htmlwww.biblestudy.org/basicart/does-god-offer-a-second-chance-at-salvation.htmlOne answer I like (top one) One answer you like (bottom one) What does the torah say? Na 1:9 ¶ What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: Shalom
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Post by Dave on May 18, 2021 10:15:13 GMT -5
R The breath of life is a flow from the Father The breath of salvation is a flow from the SON D Where is your Torah scripture of two breaths?Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (chay); and man became a living soul. H2421 חָיָה chayah (chaw-yaw') v. 1. (literally or figuratively) to live. 2. (causatively) to revive. 3. (specially) to bring back to life (from the dead). @-v-p-i-3-f-s-X-1-c-s Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life (chayah). R Hope these help R Hope these help Chay and chayah – are the same word – who uses polysemy now RobertOne is a noun used as the object of a preposition And the other is in the dative case indicating possession Syntax and grammar – doesn’t matter to you You do not want to translate – you just play word games without boundaries D Joh 14:16 I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper R yes two helpers to the Father, Jesus and the HS both reach to help sinners.D So now you have two Holy Spirits – which one is the Comforter of the agl?R no Dave, Jesus is our help mate, a comforter and the HS is another comforter.So now you have two Holy Spirits – which one is the Comforter of the agl?D Two HS + one Father + the son who is just an angel named Michael - is this all your God head? Or are all the angels also apart of your god head pantheon of gods? R no need to mock Dave. Then why do you post this SDA garbage if you don’t support itYou have told me this I am just to lazy to search for your quoteAll I know about the SDA comes from youYou post things as facts - then deny them - then repost them as facts again over time You have the consistant and trustworthy witness of a used car salesmanD " If man is already just a HS driven animal why does the HS have to help? You say man is just a biological animal empowered by the HS – no spirit – no soul Now you say the HS comes inside to help – to help who the other HS? R you really get confused don't you? I never said we have no soul. (we just don't have an immortal soul)OH – I see – you have a biological soul that dies and returns to the dust – just mortal And this is why only the HS returns to heaven with our recorded memoriesSo again I askAt the sub-atomic level we are just the HS-medium And in the end only the memories of the animal return to heaven So who does the comforter come to help – the HS-medium ? Who is man – just the memories of an animalAnd the person dies. The HS medium returns back to GOD.This is what you say – only the HS is saved - man is just dust that return to the ground and is gone - your soul of man dies because it is mortal - your soul of man is no more special than a cockroach or a cowWhere is man in your equation – you say you believe in the soul but it dies like biology and returns to the dust because it is mortal -simple biology Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: IS GREEK - spirit Why doesn't it say God's Spirit testifies to our biology? I ask - who is man in your equation - you say it is just our HS-medium Why doesn't it say God's Spirit testifies to our Holy Spirit ZERO POLYSEMY you claim - unless it serves your doctrineYou deny the spiritOnce matter becomes activated and living energy, the soul comes to be. Gen 2:7So your God has to create a new soul for each and every new baby Sorry Robert – creation only took 6 Days D" God is fighting a war over SIN, it began in heaven and continues on earth, by the same devil and his angels. WOW Robert – I hope your God is strong enough to win His war No one stands against My God – My God is omnipotentR so let me ask you a question: Dave the parent. You daughter decides to rebel and run away from homeWhere is your Torah scripture – over and over you just state worldly examplesD" Accuse – that is what a prosecutor does as he opposes you in court R No Dave, a prosecutor is not allowed to be an assessory to the crime. A prosecutor is not allowed to help you do the crimes and than also prosecute you. An accuser does this. Again with your excuses – satan made me do it – the prosecutor made me do itSorry Robert – you make your own choices – stop looking for an excuseD" Mock all you want – it matters not R Sorry I didn't mean to mock, do sinners get a second change at achieving salvation?The key is second chanceI said for those who did not have a chanceSo you say they have a second chanceTwist just so you can argue against yourself – it is what you do Seriousness and academic honesty
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