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Post by Dave on May 23, 2021 17:39:27 GMT -5
If souls are created as required – and only God can create living energy / spirit Biology / matter certainly cannot create living energy Then your God is busy in an on-going creation process all the timeR" Isn't it easier to say, all gametes arose from Eve, the ongoing process of gamete production arises from the first woman and the first man. R The soul is not biology... that is an insult to GOD.... the soul is a term describing living energy. Is your soul biological or not – please make up your mindYou cannot maintain the same doctrine for one week in a row It feels – lack of seriousness – just game play for you I know who you areAnd what's wrong with God being busy? Doesn't he note the single fall of a sparrow from the sky?Exo 20:11 For in six days Adonai made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Thus Adonai blessed Yom Shabbat, and made it holy. Scripture says creation is over
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2021 14:32:43 GMT -5
Is your soul biological or not – please make up your mind
The term nephesh is not biological, nor divine, nor immortal.
If the soul was immortal, why did Jesus die? No need for Jesus to die if the soul is already immortal?
The term soul is just a way to describe relational partnership of the creature to the divine powers of GOD.
This term describes the way matter and divinity combine to make humans living energy...
You are asking is relationship biological? Relationship is not biological either, nor divine, nor immortal. This is a term when creatures partner to GOD who alone is immortal and divine.
Get the idea?
Shalom
PS you ask is creation over?
My answer is NO, salvation is all about recreation
Ps 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
Create in me a new character, is all about creation isn't it? A daily thing too. Every day I receive more development from the compassion-centre of the HS, and GOD "bara" me some more of this character of GOD.
Same word used in creation week. go figure
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Post by Dave on May 24, 2021 23:14:16 GMT -5
Is your soul biological or not – please make up your mind The term nephesh is not biological, nor divine, nor immortal. You need to buy a dictionary
If you are biology – you are mortal –and will die a mortal death If you are immortal the you are NOT-Mortal If you are not biology but spirit – then you are immortal because you will never suffer a biological death
Angels will never suffer a mortal death – they are immortal
The biology of man does die a mortal death – and to the dust we return The spirit of man does not die a mortal death- it is released and returns to God
If the soul was immortal, why did Jesus die? No need for Jesus to die if the soul is already immortal?
Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.
Mortal death – is the death of biology because it is mortal The soul is released from the body and returns to God to stand judgment nd face the Second death – the death of spirit
PS you ask is creation over? I didn’t ask it – scripture said it
My answer is NO, salvation is all about recreation Ps 51:10 Same word used in creation week. go figure
Which are the works of the spirit – not new creation
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2021 4:41:26 GMT -5
Angels eat food Ge 18:8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.
Angels have bodies like humans Heb 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
Angels are not immortal: Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
R The term nephesh is not biological, nor divine, nor immortal.
D You need to buy a dictionary
R Why? This is good?
Nephesh (נֶ֫פֶשׁ nép̄eš) is a Biblical Hebrew word which occurs in the Hebrew Bible. The word refers to the aspects of sentience, and human beings and other animals are both described as having nephesh.
The word is NOT a noun or a verb, but both meanings. It's a relationship word. Related to the word "energize" or "energy", a quality of GOD alone.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on May 25, 2021 12:47:28 GMT -5
R The term nephesh is not biological, nor divine, nor immortal.
The term nephesh is not biological (Mortal) – nor immortal So what is it – nothing?
When the nephesh return to God – is it dead No one stands judgement in heaven if we die as a mortal – because our nephesh goes nowhere Why does scripture say the Nephesh returns to God?
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2021 14:18:07 GMT -5
Why does scripture say the Nephesh returns to God?
Scripture does not say the nephesh returns to God, it says the ruwach returns to GOD.
No one stands judgement in heaven?? Are you kidding? The dry bones are made into living energy again when GOD empowers them with living, His presence. Than they are judged.
When the nephesh return to God – is it dead ?? Where does the torah say the nephesh returns to GOD, when you die?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on May 26, 2021 6:32:18 GMT -5
Scripture does not say the nephesh returns to God, it says the ruwach returns to GOD.Still hung up on individual words and missing the preceptbiblehub.com/hebrew/5315.htmStrong's Hebrew: 5315. נָ֫פֶשׁ (nephesh) -- a soulH5315 – nephesh = G5590 ψυχή - psuchē Definition = a soul, living being, life, self, person 2Sa 1:9 'And he saith unto me, Stand, I pray thee, over me, and put me to death, for seized me hath the arrow, for all my soul is still in me. biblehub.com/hebrew/5315.htmEcc 3:21 Who knows that the spirit of the sons of man ascends upward and the animal’s spirit descends into the earth? H7307 - rûach = G4151 - πνεῦμα From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, Man is a spirit created in heaven on Day 1 At conception – spiritual man is mated with biological man at conception – Gen 2:7 Now tied to the biology by the ‘silver cord’ man’s spirit becomes the soul of biological man Inside a body the spirit is a soul Released from the body – the spirit is set free to return to God No one stands judgement in heaven?? Are you kidding? The dry bones are made into living energy again when GOD empowers them with living, His presence. Than they are judged.First you argue – no biology in heaven – no men in heaven Now you argue it is all about biology in heaven Very consistent 1Jn 3:2 Loved ones, now we are God’s children; and it has not yet been revealed what we will be. But we do know that when it’s revealed, we shall be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. I’ll stick with scripture
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2021 17:50:51 GMT -5
D" First you argue – no biology in heaven – no men in heaven Now you argue it is all about biology in heaven Very consistent
R I am so sorry you do not understand my words Dave.
D"no biology in heaven – no men in heaven
R There is plenty of biology in heaven. And plenty of humans in heaven already.
Jesus is in heaven with biology (a human body) like ours, with also His divinity and immortality (unlike us).
24 elders around the throne are also biology and thus humans, judging and watching the war on earth. Some were raised from dead, with new biology, such as Moses. Some went unto into heaven with the renew biology they already have, such as Enoch.
You claim souls are living even after death?
Well Enoch went to heaven with his soul with its original biology body (quicken while alive to a fully sinless condition, during the translation process). And Moses was raised with his soul and it's original biology body too (but renewed in a sinless condition, during the resurrection process)
In Matthew 17 Peter makes no mention of anything unusual about Moses. He looked normal as Moses looked on earth.
Ac 13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: 37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
This passage is saying David saw corruption of his biology, but he fell asleep and is still in the grave even to this day, no mention of his soul in heaven?
And Jesus biology saw no corruption, is living in heaven in the same body he took up on earth.
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Jesus soul was poured out unto death for sin-offering. How is this possible? Muslim ask if Jesus is God how can God die? But what if dying means the separation of members within the Godhead, than dying is now possible. And the body Jesus had saw no corruption because Jesus divinity saw that his body remained living, as the body saw no transgression of the law. Death is explained as separation from God. And Jesus soul was truly separated from the Father, hence died in it's truest sense.
So what Scripture is not well understood in this way?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on May 30, 2021 18:37:53 GMT -5
D" First you argue – no biology in heaven – no men in heaven Now you argue it is all about biology in heaven Very consistent
R I am so sorry you do not understand my words Dave. R There is plenty of biology in heaven. And plenty of humans in heaven already. Jesus is in heaven with biology (a human body) like ours, with also His divinity and immortality (unlike us).
(a human body) like ours 1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
1Jn 3:2 Loved ones, now we are God’s children; and it has not yet been revealed what we will be. But we do know that when it’s revealed, we shall be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.
Sorry Robert - NOT (a human body) like ours - as you anthropomorphize
24 elders around the throne are also biology and thus humans, judging and watching the war on earth. Some were raised from dead, with new biology, such as Moses. Some went unto into heaven with the renew biology they already have, such as Enoch. Sorry Robert - NOT (a human body) like ours - as you anthropomorphize
You claim souls are living even after death?
Well Enoch went to heaven with his soul with its original biology body (quicken while alive to a fully sinless condition, during the translation process). And Moses was raised with his soul and it's original biology body too (but renewed in a sinless condition, during the resurrection process) Sorry Robert - NOT (a human body) like ours - as you anthropomorphize
In Matthew 17 Peter makes no mention of anything unusual about Moses. He looked normal as Moses looked on earth. So What - Sorry Robert - NOT (a human body) like ours - as you anthropomorphize
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
So what Scripture is not well understood in this way? Really – how much twisting do you have to do to deny scripture 1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
We will have etheral bodies
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2021 18:57:10 GMT -5
D" We will have etheral bodies
R" What does this mean?
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Post by Dave on May 31, 2021 5:53:24 GMT -5
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? How can Paul be rescued from his body of dead – by being released from it2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and at home with the Lord. The second time Paul speaks of being out of the body2Co 12:2 I know a man in Messiah (whether in the body I don’t know, or whether out of the body I don’t know—God knows)—fourteen years ago, he was caught up to the third heaven. 2Co 12:3 I know such a man (whether in the body or outside of the body I don’t know—God knows)— The third time Paul says it – twiceIf man has no spirit – how can man be out of his body? Spirit is ethereal – not made of matter – but of another substanceAngels are not biology – God is not biology – Christ is not biology – the Holy Spirit is not biology But you deny the spirit – so of course you don’t get it You have been trained not to get it – by your ruler Or you should buy a dictionary
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2021 14:44:08 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
2 Cor 5:8. You do not read the whole context:-
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
Our current biological body has missing letters, corrupted DNA, containing the living words of life. WE groan for a new DNA code which only comes from heaven.
2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
Same idea, groan for a new body without missing code.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
If your idea was true, the verse would say man becomes brand new in Jesus, and with Jesus we get a brand new body and brand new flesh once we are baptism , but this does not happen.
The Hebrew word here is chadesh, meaning "renewed" not "brand new"/ Jeff Benner notes this and says the new moon is "rewewed" each month, not brand new each month.
Therefore we have the same biology body we have, but it is renewed daily by Jesus. Do you deny salvation in Jesus, that does not include changes to our flesh? Or only to your spirit, whatever you mean by that term?
You say angels are not biology... OK how come angels eat food? Even Jesus on earth ate food? before and after resurrection?
SHalom
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Post by Dave on May 31, 2021 15:32:18 GMT -5
2 Cor 5:8. You do not read the whole context:- 2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
OK – our body is a house – or even a Temple for what is inside I say inside – you find our spirit / Soul You say – there is nothing inside – we are only biology
2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
We are in this tabernacle – called body
Zec 3:3 Now Joshua was wearing filthy garments and standing before the angel Zec 3:4 who answered and spoke to those standing before him saying, ‘Remove the filthy garments from him.’ Then to Joshua he said, ‘See, I have removed your iniquity from you and will dress you with fine clothing.’
Earthly garments of biology exchanged for heavenly garments – the body that we do not understand yet – but a body like Christ’s
1Jn 3:2 Loved ones, now we are God’s children; and it has not yet been revealed what we will be. But we do know that when it’s revealed, we shall be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.
Sorry Robert - NOT (a human body) like ours - as you anthropomorphize
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
If your idea was true, the verse would say man becomes brand new in Jesus, and with Jesus we get a brand new body and brand new flesh once we are baptism , but this does not happen.
You are correct – what you say does not happen – It is all about the spirit Your verse Psa 51:12 Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me.
Do you you deny salvation in Jesus, that does not include changes to our flesh? Or only to your spirit, whatever you mean by that term?
At least you are honest that you deny the spirit
If you are retarded, crippled, stupid, or born with a birth defect – and then become saved in Christ Our biology does not change – tomorrow we are still retarded, crippled, and have a birth defect. What changes in out flesh is the awareness of how corrupt it is – Paul – Roman 7
You say angels are not biology... OK how come angels eat food? Even Jesus on earth ate food? before and after resurrection?
They are higher dimensional beings – they are not 3D corporeal – they are ethereal They can appear and disappear – they can appear in any form they choose And they can appear as men – or even a stranger you meet along your way I am not the one placing limits on what the heavens can and cannot do
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2021 4:58:51 GMT -5
D" I am not the one placing limits on what the heavens can and cannot do
R" Neither am I. Angels eat human food. Jesus ate human food before and after resurrection.
Biological bodies can hypo-space, as the HS did to Philip after baptizing the eunuch. Biological bodies can pass through walls, as Jesus did many times after resurrection.
Where we differ is our understanding of the Scriptures.
D" You are correct – what you say does not happen – It is all about the spirit Your verse Psa 51:12 Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me.
R" Dave I do not deny the power of the HS. The fact is it is only the biology that requires changing before we can enter heaven, not the mind (which is the body as well) for our thoughts come from the body.
The fact is upon baptism the body is renewed daily, and changes happen slowly. What changes? Spirit changes.
The verse you quote, my verse, has some things in it:
(1) H3559 (firm) ruwach
V) 2JO (2JO KWN) — Firm: To set something firmly in place, either physically or with words. [freq. 219] (vf: Niphal, Hiphil, Hophal) |kjv: prepare, establish, ready, provide, right, fix, set, direct, order, fashion, certain, confirm, firm| {str: 3559} Nm) 2JO (2JO KWN) — Cake: As firmly pressed. [freq. 2] |kjv: cake| {str: 3561}
The word have verb and noun forms, the noun form is cake? according to Jeff Benner.
So the verb form means "firm" and the noun form means "firmed".
(2) chadesh
The idea to renew powers of spirit daily in us.
In the context of the breath of life is "ruwach chay" AND "nashamah chay" both phrases are used, and for a reason.
The ruwach is the HS, who allows the Father's power to flow into the medium of the HS.
But the "nashamah chay" is pure biology, coming from the human naturally breathing, but also means more than just breathing.
2Sa 22:16 shows GOD using both Himself, the ruwach and the nashamah to create.
Job 4:9 shows GOD using both Himself, the ruwach and the nashamah to create.
Job 26:4 To whom hast thou uttered words? and whose spirit came from thee?
Here nashamah takes on a different context, the wind of character in man.
Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.
Here nashamah takes on a different context, the wind of character in man. And this character comes from the Shadday, the personal form of the HS.
Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
This verse says the same thing:
The HS administrates the breath of life AND the HS administrates the character development of man. The character development of man is termed the nashamah of the Shadday, or the "spirit".
Pr 20:27 ¶ The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD,
The nashamah is the character of man, like a candle of God.
Isa 57:16 For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made.
No translation knows what to do with nashamah here? How sad
Isa 57:16 For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the characters which I have made.
The character in man is his nashamah, the breathing of the spirit, that the Shadday or HS empowers in you. It is essentially in Dave's words, your spirit.
You used to mock me saying this is just memories from the HS, but it is more than that, it is you, the you that makes you, the character of love uniquely developed in you.
What does the LXX do with this word? Is there a Greek use of this word in the NT?
Do does the nashamah change in your daily walk, as your experience salvation daily? Yes the biology must change, so the propensities are removed. and the habits of sinning must die.
This verse :
1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Where does sinning come from? The mind only or the biology impacts the mind, which impacts the body?
Some sinning comes from tempters like Satanic agencies whispering in your ear. But most sinning comes from genetic propensities that impact the mind thoughts directly. These propensities are like weeds, that choke the mind from being able to be free.
Isa 59:4 None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity. 5 They hatch cockatrice' eggs, and weave the spider's web: he that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out into a viper.
This verse speaks of biology that impacts the aven seeds that change our potential. Its a biological war.
And the solution?
Ro 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you
Paul is talking about dealing with our flesh by getting connected to Jesus power by faith, and this flow into you via the HS is termed the dwelling of the Spirit of GOD in you.
What exactly does this power do?
(1) It changes your nashamah (2) It changes your aven.
Ex 23:30 By little and little I will drive them out from before thee, until thou be increased, and inherit the land.
Little by little the aven propensities are removed before thee, like weeds they are removed from your biological system, and together with your renewed character, you become sinless (as well as declared sinless by Jesus when you started this journey of salvation)
Salvation is both an event and a journey with Jesus. Your biology is changed and your character is changed, which also changes your mind, so in a completed state, you are completely sinless. (not that you would never know this, but only GOD reads your heart)
You often speak of the soul as immortal. This is not so. Only God is immortal. But if humans take a part of GOD like His love and develop it in themselves, they can in fact develop a sense of something that is immortal. This is termed the nashamah, or the spirit in man. It's your character developed from love, and once developed is you forever unique.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jun 1, 2021 6:10:29 GMT -5
Biological bodies can hypo-space, Is that a biblical word like Trinity – show me your word in scripture – word man Is your belief system based in science fiction Biological bodies can pass through walls,Is your belief system based in science fiction Biological bodies can pass through walls, as Jesus did many times after resurrection.After the resurrection Jesus Christ was changed – ethereal 1 John 3:2 Where we differ is our understanding of the Scriptures.I embrace scripture – and you spend all your time trying to twist it into some biological perversion
The HS administrates the breath of life AND the HS administrates the character development of man. The character development of man is termed the nashamah of the Shadday, or the "spirit". You are not the Holy SpiritThe character in man is his nashamah, the breathing of the spirit, that the Shadday or HS empowers in you. You are not the Holy SpiritYou used to mock me saying this is just memories from the HS, but it is more than that, it is you, the you that makes you, the character of love uniquely developed in you. You say you are the Holy SpiritYou often speak of the soul as immortal. This is not so. Only God is immortal.You say - your soul dies and returns to the dust as all mortal things doGone forever – lost to time – extinguished You now also claim that all the angels in heaven must die a mortal death If your Christ and Holy Spirit are not God – do they die a mortal death and return to dust as well Therefore - you deny the gift of eternal life and everything is only WORLDLY BiologyWord man How can you have the authority to play word games with ancient Hebrew If you don't even know your own native languageQuestion #5 – If 1 Chr 21 if filled with disobedience – ra – and sin with your satan; doesn’t this make your God of 2 Sam 24 disobedient to Himself – doing ra – and sinning?Hmm? You have to read the cause the affect carefully, not read the verses as they are written, because Hebrew does not write in sequenced time, but as Jeff explains block logic. What type of Christian would tell another soul - not read the verses as they are written ? Your respect for the Word of God showing through loud and clearI know who you areYou deny there is One True God You deny Jesus Christ as God incarnate You deny the spirit The only after-life you have is your recorded memories – recorded by the Holy Spirit Your satan re-created himself s as powerful as God and altered all of God’s tov creation And your Holy Spirit, Christ, all the angels, as well as man all die and crumble to dust Ther SDA sure sounds like a santanic cult to me Looks like Christianity - smells like Christianity - just denies all the basic precepts Why does the SDA have to endorse book claiming they are not a cult?The SDA church is not a cult.... - Amazon.comhttps://www.amazon.com › review Listing the Adventist church as a cult is a BIG mistake and shows total ignorance of the doctrines of the church and Bible. What's funny is, just because the SDA ... Steve Wohlberg – has several SDA book – all speaking about the Israeli Deception. Very anti-Jewish – just like Robert Are Seventh-Day Adventists Christians? - Question & Answer ...https://www.opc.org › ... Clearly, the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons are not as they reject the Christ of Scripture, but what of Seventh Day Adventists? We currently rent a SDA building ... “I understand and embrace the communion of the saints, but it seems to me that the Adventists are more distant from Scripture than even the Catholics and Eastern Orthodox believers.”More distant - as in simply deny scripture or twist it into a satan supporting platformIs Seventh-Day Adventism a Cult? | GraceLife | Grace ...https://www.gracechurch.org › sermons Apr 26, 2015 — Is Seventh-Day Adventism a Cult? I'm just going to read a short passage from Colossians 2 without comment to start with. I want to revisit the ... Criticism of the Seventh-day Adventist Church - Wikipediahttps://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Criticism_of_the_Seve... Criticism of the Seventh-day Adventist Church includes observations made about its teachings, structure, and practices or theological disagreements from ... Church doctrine · Trinitarian views · Christology · Investigative judgment... Is the Adventist Church an apostate cult? | Adventist Recordhttps://record.adventistchurch.com › Faith Nov 30, 2016 — I once had a long discussion with members of the Seventh Day Adventist Reform Movement (SDARM). SDARM is a small ex-Adventist ... Why I Am Not a Seventh-day Adventist | Free Inquiryhttps://secularhumanism.org › 2014/01 › cont-why-i-a... It's often said that the fastest way to become an atheist is to read the Bible. While there's truth to that statement, it's an oversimplification. Becoming an atheist ... Seventh Day Adventists: Is It A Cult? - YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com › watch Jul 28, 2019 — In this video, I talk about Seventh Day Adventists and how they compare to the BITE model. Is it a cult? How extreme is the group? Should you ... Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Dangers of Seventh-day... AND - you have never answered my questionWhy is it a sin for an angel to obey the LordIn Fact - you have many unanswered questions on this forum
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