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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2021 16:55:24 GMT -5
D" Months ago you argued that elohiym meant strong authorityR" el means strong authority. eloah means a strong authority functioning as a provider elohiym means the family power , or technically the strong authority of the provider FLOWS. The letters inside the ancient Hebrew tell you the mean of the words, but this does not always work so well we we do not understand the letter combinations the Hebrew people chose. So often understanding some words is hard. But ANcient Hebrew as a method is valid, because it works for many words, especially the two letter words, not so well on adopted words, impacted by cultural change. D" So you have a male father - a male son –and a male satan authority No Spirit – but you deny the spirit
R must you write negative to mock? Scripture does not say the Provider is gender male nor does the Responder is gender female, There is not text the angels are gender orientated either, it is merely assumed. I say assumed because Hebrew has language cases of masculine and feminine. The Hebrew word "ab" does not mean "father" or "fruit" for polysemous sentences, it means "provider" for all sentences. So "ab" is a provider And "em" is a responder And this follows the two Hebrew words for love, the ahab and the ahabuh D" I have been attending Christian churches for 40 years + I want to thank you – I have never been exposed to the SDA before There is a SDA church in Trinidad – we pass by it shopping – there is never more than two or three cars in its parking lot – they have no children program (why I have not been inside personally)
R I am sorry you misread my words and my church so badly. The only thing different from you is the Great Controversy theme. I have been only going to SDA churches since I was 16, that is 42+ years ago. Before that my Mum sent us to Sunday school a few times up the road at age 15, as there was no local children's program around. I am surprised SDA church in Trinidad does not have children's programme. All SDA churches have a children's programme? Even in PNG, even ones with less than 15 adults, still have a children's programme? Are you sure? Call in and ask them, drop the kids off and see? I assume you attend Churches on Saturday Sabbath, the true Sabbath of the torah? There are 55 Saturday worshipping churches in the USA that follow the true Sabbath, but the biggest ones are the Jewish and the SDA. There are many Jews who have become SDA over the years, one even in Mrs White's day. So our doctrines can't be ant-torah as you claim. In fact since we have been writing so long, you have not dismissed a single torah claim I have presented, but you do find gaps in some themes, and I feel for you, GOD always leaves room for some to doubt. You're biggest problem is you follow Gnostic writings , above the torah even. When I speak of "el, eloah. elohiym, echad and yaccid" Jews get violently upset if you try to get them to see a "Family power" at work. They do not like defending the torah using only the torah. The word family is never used for elohiym in the OT. In Ancient Hebrew the word means "The flowing pressed mouth outside. Behold the divine Person" Does this word really mean a collection of gender components? Not really? It refers to the pressing of words spoken outside Heavenly Home, by a Divine Being. Most Jews could safely view family in this way,.... Jeff uses the idea of " joining together" is a really good idea of this Hebrew word. D: " YES I DO - one GOD, who is the author of the good and the bad
SO how did this One GOD pray to itself in heaven as ONE GOD? I and my Father are ONE GOD? DOes this mean sense? Jesus and the Provider can be echad, But it does not say yaccid. Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. So what was this glory Yashuah had with the Provider in heaven? You say just an expression of the same ONE GOD? How does that work Dave? What Scripture do you supply to explain this idea? I have plenty, the entire Genesis account is a simile about Who GOD is like. D" You are the one teaching the ahl is error (some verse MUST be over looked or explained away) then preach the ahl is perfect I do not dismiss any scripture – and my cosmology is consistent
R" I do not dismiss any text Dave, including the one you love so much Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. IN fact I make simple experiments to show how this light/dark thing works. Dark is a simile of RA, because this is a parallel statement. Do you know under super bright light, you cannot make umbra dark shadows of ra? The Bible speaks of the shadows of death, the shadows of ra. So how do you make a umbra shadow of ra? You need God as light. BIngo You need a Medium to filter down that light. (mediums can be either good or bad. Remember that 1Ki 22:23, you love showing me) You need a person to block the light and allow the light to pass by. The shadows of ra are seen by simple maths and physics LAW, that LOVE obeys. But you ignore all this , you just say GOD doess it all. No He does not. There is a lot of different relationships here in making this shadow of ra. You ignore all this. D" Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Sin entered the world through EVER:"NO, again you do not agree " Ge 42:6 And Joseph was the governor <shalliyt> over the land" Shalliyt means ruler, but you ignore this idea . This Greek verse quotes the Hebrew verse. Ac 7:10 And...Pharaoh <Pharao> king <basileus> of Egypt <Aiguptos>; and <kai> he made <kathistemi> him <autos> governor <hegeomai> over <epi> Egypt Now you can quibble all you like over details kathistemi meaning to make one a ruler hegeomai one who rules And this Hebrew Ge 42:6 And Joseph was the governor <shalliyt> over the land" Boy it's hard getting child like meanings from words, even when cross referenced from Greek to Hebrew. So who is the ruler over Creation? the masculine or the feminine? Are you kidding? Hebrew dicates the masculine rules. Adam was prince over Creation. NOT EVE. D: " Sin entered the world through EVER" NOT so. Eve sinned first, yes, but Eve was not prince of earth. Ro 5:14 Nevertheless <alla> death <thanatos> reigned <basileuo> from <apo> Adam <Adam> NO mention of EVE. Why does Jesus quote " Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. What is this term prince doing here? Because when Adam sinned the prince ruler right changed from Adam to Satan. But you don't get this. D" I do not dismiss any scripture – R :" Really? Cherub chata is one verse you dismiss. Bright star like the Most High, is another you dismiss. Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. Why does Jesus come as a Prince to over rule the Prince of Earth? Is Jesus a Prince? Da 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 And there was given him dominion, The Ancient of Days gives EARTH to Jesus, the SON of MAN, as a prince with earth as His kingdom. But first Jesus must fight the Prince of Earth on the Cross and get back the Earth Kingdom as Jesus' kingdom. SHalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 14, 2021 8:51:29 GMT -5
I guess I am beginning to mock you – I have tried to tell you something in polite ways and you just don’t understand me 1- You are not a scholar or a serious student 2- I have tried to bring this to your attention in several ways I guess I am mocking now – for that I apologies – but you need to take a good look at yourself 3- You have proven beyond any doubt that you are not on this form as a student studying the depth of God’s word Why 1- either you only goal is to validate your doctrine 2- at first I just though you a combination of brainwashed and stubborn 3- and I wondered if you have a learning disability – and asked you so 4- now it seems that you only intent is to tear down Christianity – morph it into something it is not – something that is offensive to the rest of Christianity and every Jew alive or dead – morph it into something religious that you can’t sell Every time you throw around absolutes – as if you were an authority on the subject All you do is expose your ignorance of scripture Proving you have never studied scripture as a living whole – but you just study topics from your failed doctrine If something is outside your doctrine – you are completely unable to engage D" So you have a male father - a male son –and a male satan authority No Spirit – but you deny the spiritR must you write negative to mock? There is not text the angels are gender orientated either, it is merely assumed. I say assumed because Hebrew has language cases of masculine and feminine.Zec 5:9 Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven. Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: … Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. We have discussed both these verses before – but you have a short memory – failed to take notes – didn’t hear – or just refuse to seeSO how did this One GOD pray to itself in heaven as ONE GOD? I and my Father are ONE GOD? DOes this mean sense?Shekinah - The word itself is taken from such passages as speak of God dwelling either in the Tabernacle or among the people of Israel (see Ex. xxv. 8, xxix. 45-46; Num. v. 3, xxxv. 34; I Kings vi. 13; Ezek. xliii. 9; Zech. ii. 14 [A. V. 10]). Occasionally the name of God is spoken of as descending (Deut. xii. 11; xiv. 23; xvi. 6, 11; xxvi. 2; Neh. i. 9). It is especially said that God dwells in Jerusalem (Zech. viii. 3; Ps. cxxxv. 21; I Chron. xxiii. 25), on Mount Zion (Isa. viii. 18; Joel iv. [A. V. iii.] 17, 21; Ps. xv. 1, lxxiv. 2), and in the Temple itself (Ezek. xliii. 7). Question – how can God dwell in Jerusalem – or in a Temple – or among His people – or come into your heart – AND STILL BE IN HEAVEN? – and still be on the Throne of Heaven You ask – how can God be in two places at the same timeI say SPIRIT – and God is more than a manYou deny the spirit and treat God is if he is limited like other men of biology R I am sorry you misread my words and my church so badly. The only thing different from you is the Great Controversy theme.D" 4-As a result – there is a two god system – a god of tov and a god of ra – locked in an eternal controversy. R:" This is far better than your one god system who is both ra and tov, locked in an eternal design of allowing both tov and ra, just to express his ultimate will. My GOD is only tov, as you say. Your god is both tov and ra, designs and lives with both tov and ra, allows the natural ra to cause bad things on earth. There is only ONE TRUE CREATOR that is absolute The entire concept of two gods = paganI have been only going to SDA churches since I was 16, that is 42+ years ago. Before that my Mum sent us to Sunday school a few times up the road at age 15, as there was no local children's program around.So – you admit it – you entire Christian experience has been to swallow the same doctrine I am surprised SDA church in Trinidad does not have children's programme. Hard to have a children’s program when the congregation = 3 cars in the parking lotThere are many Jews who have become SDA over the yearsBIG DEAL – you talk like a salesmanMany Catholics become Muslim - Muslim become Catholic – SDA become Muslim – Sammy Davis Jr became Jewish – you have no point – just a sales pitch When I speak of "el, eloah. elohiym, echad and yaccid" Jews get violently upset if you try to get them to see a "Family power" at work. They do not like defending the torah using only the torah.Of course they do – If someone walks up to you and blasphemes your God to your face – you wouldn’t be upset? All Jews see God as a duality – Male Father in heaven on His Throne + Female Spirit Shekinah `that extends from the father and moves among the people – or dwells in Jerusalem – or in a Temple – or in your heart – (male + female) – a singularity that can never be seen – but experienced as SPIRIT Oh – and let’s not forget the Jewish male image of GodGen 18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; ----------------------------------- D" You are the one teaching the ahl is error (some verse MUST be over looked or explained away) then preach the ahl is perfect R" I do not dismiss any text Dave, including the one you love so much Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. And yet you say My GOD is only tov, as you say and cannot be responsible for ra in any foprm R" I do not dismiss any text Dave,This thread was started to explore who does satan oppose / accuseI have dealt with my 49 verses I have answered your 23 verses Why do you refuse to go through each line and explain to me how each line represents a satan that is anti-God or opposes God – or even disobeys God You don’t because you Can’t – because satan is not God’s opponent in a war Satan is God’s obedient servant helping God facilitate God’s plan Please prove to me that satan is God’s opponet – here are the verses And your answer is R" I do not dismiss any text Dave, D" Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. D: "Sin entered the world through EVE R" NOT so. Eve sinned first, yes, but Eve was not prince of earth. Ro 5:14 Nevertheless <alla> death <thanatos> reigned <basileuo> from <apo> Adam <Adam> NO mention of EVE. H120 – אָדָם - 'āḏām – man, human being, , mankind (much more frequently intended sense in OT) – and a proper name Adam, first man – and a proper name – a city in Jordan valley The KJV translates Strong's H120 in the following manner: man (408x), men (121x), Adam (13x), person(s) (8x), common sort (with H7230) (1x), hypocrite (1x). 539 times אָדָם - 'āḏām just means mankind – all men/ any man Adam was prince over Creation. NOT EVE. Man was given dominion – mankind – all men – every man / any man------------------------------- R:"NO, again you do not agree "Ge 42:6 And Joseph was the governor <shalliyt> over the land" Shalliyt means ruler, but you ignore this ideaThis Greek verse quotes the Hebrew verse. Ac 7:10 And...Pharaoh <Pharao> king <basileus> of Egypt <Aiguptos>; and <kai> he made <kathistemi> him <autos> governor <hegeomai> over <epi> Egypt Now you can quibble all you like over details kathistemi meaning to make one a ruler hegeomai one who rules And this Hebrew Ge 42:6 And Joseph was the governor <shalliyt> over the land" Boy it's hard getting child like meanings from words, even when cross referenced from Greek to Hebrew.Seriously – if you make up stuff – it is easy to be confused I guess I mock you example as not well researched – Gen 42:6 And Joseph was the governor <shalliyt> over Gen 42:6 Ιωσηφ δὲ ἦν ἄρχων Wait for it - Ιωσηφ (Joseph) δὲ (the) ἦν (be –past tense was) ἄρχων (archon) Archon – meaning governor – ruler of a territory – to have dominion over a domaine I could not agree more kathistemi - meaning to make one a Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many (were made – G2525) sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. G2525 – καθίστημι - kathistēmi - From G2596 and G2476; to place down (permanently), that is, (figuratively) to designate, constitute, convoy: - appoint, be, conduct, make, ordain, set. Were made – designated – appointed – ordained G2596 - - κατά - A primary particle; down (in place or time), and frequently denotes , distribution or intensity. G2476 - ἵστημι - A prolonged form of a primary word στάω staō (of the same meaning, and used for it in certain tenses); to stand (transitively or intransitively),: - abide, appoint, bring, continue, covenant, establish, hold up, lay, present, set (up), stanch, stand (by, forth, still, up). G2525 – καθίστημι - Were made – designated – appointed – ordained Intensely established I say - Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many (were made –intensely established / ordained/ designated) sinners, You say - Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many are ruled by satan Then you use this verse to preach all men are possessed by satan who thinks for you – or makes your decisions for you – because you are ruled ------------------------ So who is the ruler over Creation? the masculine or the feminine?The Trinity = androgynous that is experienced as male or female-------------------------------- Why does Jesus quote " Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. What is this term prince doing here? For the Millionth time – the archon were cast into earth – this is their domain – their kingdom The Best/Dragon/First Archon + the Devil + all the archon false prophets are cast into the lake of fire God’s kingdom is purged of ra in Rev 20 R" I do not dismiss any text Dave, Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. Why does Jesus come as a Prince to over rule the Prince of Earth? Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. You are a Christian and you still question this?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2021 18:02:53 GMT -5
D" I guess I am beginning to mock you – I have tried to tell you something in polite ways and you just don’t understand me 1- You are not a scholar or a serious student R" How many Christians do you know , read Hebrew, even the Ancient Hebrew Jeff Benner presents, and studies all the sentences in a Hebrew word, before evaluating its meaning in a single English word, who bothers to post his findings as a website, for others?
Who studies the entire collection of Ellen White messages against Ancient Hebrew words Jeff Benners suggests to ascertain if Ellen White was indeed a prophet?
Who studies Hebrew word meanings, precept upon precept?
And if I have an electronic prefix and suffix bible, which I don't have, woudl study the Hebrew letters even, letter by letter, but I can't do this.
Sure I disagree with James Barr, and their polysemy idea. Jeff Benner and me are alone in this idea, as is Martin Luther and his German translation.
I study only the Hebrew torah. Sola scriptoria. Many other Christians did the same. Sola scriptoria as they saw it.
But you add to your Hebrew torah, You say we can add kabbalah, and Gnostic writings, and oral talmud and hence your tanak is bigger than mine. That is your choice to do this, but it adds to confusion. I read only the Hebrew torah first of Moses, in it's ancient Hebrew. Than the other prophets must agree with this.
D" Zec 5:8 And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof. 9 Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven. 10 Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Whither do these bear the ephah? 11 And he said unto me, To build it an house in the land of Shinar: and it shall be established, and set there upon her own base. (KJV)
R" Using the fuller text, is this wickedness referring to gender female cherub? I don't know. One cannot expect to fathom all the torah, but you seek the more difficult torah to wrestle meanings for the hard readings. I prefer to read the easier and more important themes first.
D" You ask – how can God be in two places at the same time I say SPIRIT – and God is more than a man
R: " Sure a medium can radiate, reflect, magnify and disperse light everywhere. Natural mediums do this very well. A single torch light radiates the quantum all over the globe through the air as a medium.
You negate the idea that light is also a Particle, hence a Personal Being. But again Science dwells in mysteries, so I side with both Particle and Wave properties for energy. But again you negate this idea. SO we disagree over fundamental properties of light.
D" There is only ONE TRUE CREATOR that is absolute The entire concept of two gods = pagan R" I see, so your GOD allows for evil and thus has to be evil to allow evil to remain doing it's ra, all under the will of GOD.
I see children raped, murdered and abused by game hunters who extract hormones and blood from these children all in the name of worship, and all this moral evil is designed, supported and allowed under the will of ONE strong authority?
How can you imagine this conclusion?
FOr me, all the despicable moral evil, comes from another source. A father of sin, A father of lies, who was a murderer from the beginning. Not from GOD, but another strong authority.
This allows me peace, because GOD is NOT the author of SIN, and moral evil, some other wicked Being is.
D" Hard to have a children’s program when the congregation = 3 cars in the parking lot
R" At Rosewood we had on average 6 cars, ran a children's program in a caravan out the back, and meetings with 4 adults, sometimes the church had just 15 assembled, including women and children, as small as the one you describe.
Once in the country my wife and I attended a CHurch of England on Sunday, and only 4 cars rocked up, the Priest told us to leave, after a while because no body read the Bible in the Daily Bread studies. I was way too vocal and excited to read Scripture.
D" Of course they do – If someone walks up to you and blasphemes your God to your face – you wouldn’t be upset? R" How is asking a Jew what does Exodus 7:1 suggest blasphemy? How can Moses be elohiym to Pharoah? Surely the Hebrew must make sense?
Gordon quotes" At the same time we must observe that Ashtoret, Kemosh, and Milkom are each referred to as Elohim even though there is nothing multiple about any one of them."
Is Gordon for real? These deities are members of a family deity power arn't they?
(1) Ge 20:13 And it came to pass, when ELOHIM (with plural verb) caused me to wander from my father's house, that I said unto her, This is thy kindness which thou shalt shew unto me; at every place whither we shall come, say of me, He is my brother.
"So contrary to the expected rule of Elohim getting a singular verb, here Elohim gets a plural verb. Because of this plural verb, we could literally translate this phrase "gods caused me to wander". From this verse alone it indeed appears that Abraham worshipped multiple gods whom he believed had caused him to wander from his father's house. However, this hardly fits the overall picture.
Why does Gordon get swayed by the majority of elohiym contexts?
Is that how Hebrew meanings work?
But the basic question still remains. Why are there these three instances in the Tanach where Elohim receives a plural verb?"
Gordon asks the question, why do three sentences have strange applications?
"Let us remember that the rule of Elohim receiving a singular verb does actually work in some 2000 instances and the three verses just mentioned are the only exceptions in the entire Tanach. ...Could it be that these three anomalous verses hint at some great mystery about the paradoxical and contradictory nature of God? Or is there a much simpler, linguistic explanation?"
Again Gordon asks, but fails to understand.
To me the simple answer is consider elohiym as "family power". Fits all 2000 sentences nicely. Prove me wrong. You can't.
D" All Jews see God as a duality – Male Father in heaven on His Throne + Female Spirit Shekinah `that extends from the father and moves among the people – R" I see. How is this not polythesism than if your a Jew?
D" You don’t because you Can’t – because satan is not God’s opponent in a war R" Really?
Consider this verse, and apply the reverse logic to it.
Nu 22:22 ¶ And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him. 23 And the ass saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the ass, to turn her into the way.
A messenger from elohiym was functioning as an opposer to Baalim and his two servants on his ass, riding upon the road.
Why would GOD oppose Baalim? Baalim was a false prophet, that's why.
Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
Cain, Balaam and Koran, are all examples of pure morally evil people.
2Pe 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. 17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
Notice the kind way God describes these false prophets. Empty storms, all bang but no rain. So if GOD opposes them, these wicked empty storm prophets must by definition also oppose GOD.
Does this make sense to you?
You negate the term 'oppose' OK try the meaning 'adversary'. What is an adversary? Somebody who opposes you.
What is an opponent? A being who opposes you. You both oppose each other.
SO to see if wickedness opposes GOD directly, simply look at Scripture to see how GOD looks at wickedness?
DO all the wicked Beings end up in the lake of fire, the second death? including archons?
D" All your "hoo har" over 49 verses verses 23, doesn't matter, I need only one verse, apart from Ezek and Isa, I have Rev 12. There was war in heaven?
R Dave, Scripture says love covering a multitude of errors and wrongs. But you mock me, bring back misquotes to suit your view. I never go back and misquote you out of context. I treat your words in the here and now, present day context. It's fair this way. Sometimes we speak things over our head, in a place where we did not know much. We assume idioms of culture, we do not say. Language is always imperfect to one another. Hence the imrah is more clear and perfect than whole sentences of context. How do we understand the word as it was moved by the HS under the hand of man? Why do you negate Ezekial and Rev 12 so easily?
Why does GOD oppose Baalim? That means Baalim must also oppose GOD.
Why would a creature oppose GOD? How can a creature oppose GOD? My answer is by sinning.
But you have creatures intentionally designed by GOD with self. Hence to me this means they are already sinning from birth. NOT allowed, removes the sin, free will choose to sin, idea, hence no moral basis to explain the orgin of sin and ra.
D" Wait for it - Ιωσηφ (Joseph) δὲ (the) ἦν (be –past tense was) ἄρχων (archon) Archon – meaning governor – ruler of a territory – to have dominion over a domaine I could not agree more kathistemi - meaning to make one a R" Well is kathistemi means to make one an archon, a ruler who rules, and you could not agree with me more, why are you opposing my meanings? Joseph was archon, Nicodemus was archon, The word simply means to rule, to allow a being to rule over you.
D" For the Millionth time – the archon were cast into earth – this is their domain – their kingdom R" OK so why was man created to live in another's kingdom than?
D" The Best/Dragon/First Archon + the Devil + all the archon false prophets are cast into the lake of fire God’s kingdom is purged of ra in Rev 20
R" Why create an archon kingdom, and than end that archon kingdom?
Why not create mankind on a planet without no other beings except man and gentle creatures?
But GOD chooses to create man on a planet with archons there already? Why?
Why does Jesus come as a Prince to over rule the Prince of Earth? JOhn 3:16 Dave does not answer my question.
God could have placed man on his own world without darkness in it, no archons in it. But God didn't do this.
WHy? Because GOD was dealing with SIN, and chose MAN, an innocent creature to the SIN problem to deal or witness sin for the first time, as a brand new creation. The archons were sinning on earth, Adam was sinless on the earth. God told Adam about this Great Controversy of SIN and the Creatures doing the sin, stay away from them. God created one little test to keep the archons away from man, the tree in the garden. Yet after 33 years of bliss, man failed the test and sinned. God decides to offer man a second chance, since man was sinless saw sin come, so can experience sinlessness again. This second chance opposes the sinning archons because they are longer allowed to repend. Hence the archons oppose salvation to man. Since this spells the end of their kingdom.
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Post by Dave on Feb 15, 2021 1:30:24 GMT -5
D" I guess I am beginning to mock you – I have tried to tell you something in polite ways and you just don’t understand me 1- You are not a scholar or a serious student R" How many Christians do you know , read Hebrew, even the Ancient Hebrew Jeff Benner presents, and studies all the sentences in a Hebrew word, before evaluating its meaning in a single English word, who bothers to post his findings as a website, for others? Who studies Hebrew word meanings, precept upon precept?Every theologian I have ever met except youYou don’t even realize what a precept is – you play word games - evaluating its meaning in a single English word, - that just leave you at a disadvantage Who studies the entire collection of Ellen White Only the SDA cultCult – a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object. b relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister. c. a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing. d. "a network of Satan-worshiping cults" I study only the Hebrew torah. Sola scriptoria. Many other Christians did the same. Sola scriptoria as they saw it.
But you add to your Hebrew torah, You say we can add kabbalah, and Gnostic writings, You live by the commentary of Ellen White – you have quoted Arthur Clark – you quote Jeff brenner You have your own kabbalah - and oral talmud Again you demonstrate you lack of understanding of Judaism – but you continue to speak as an expert There are two types of Rabbi – Pharisee and Sadducee Pharisees were concerned with caring and sharing – dedication to be a Nazarite Sadducees maintained the Temple rituals There are two basic types of Judaism – Hasidic and Sephardic Hasidic Jews – are spiritual – believe in an afterlife – resurrection and salvation The collective commentary of Hasidic Judaism = kabbalah – spiritual - mysticism Sephardic Jews – are the ultra-orthodox who cannot talk on the telephone on the Sabbath Sephardic Jews – do not accept an after life – or spirit – or resurrection – and there is no need for salvation The collective commentary of Sephardic Judaism = Talmud – law - practice www.myjewishlearning.com/article/talmud-101/The Talmud, the book of Jewish law www.chabad.orgThe Talmud Is the Link Between Scripture and Jewish Practice If your only wish is to obey the 613 laws + Temple Law + Rabbinic Law then you read the Talmud and hence your tanak is bigger than mine. FACT – The Jewish Tanak is larger than your Protestant Bible FACT – the Catholic Bishops Bible is larger than your Protestant Bible FACT – the Catholic Bible is larger than your Protestant Bible Let’s discuss the Books of 1st & 2nd Esdras – Tobit – Judith – The Prayer of Manasseh – Wisdom – Sirach – Baruch Not to mention 1st, 2nd, 3rd, & 4th Maccabees and Gnostic writingsOnly by the authors of the agl from the 1945 Nag Hammadi Only you consider the authors of John, James, Peter, Phillip, Thomas, and Paul to be heresy Only you insist these authors must be doubted That is your choice to do this, but it adds to confusion. I read only the Hebrew torah first of Moses, in it's ancient Hebrew. Honestly – you do not read Hebrew – or even translate Hebrew – you transliterate and play word games To validate your doctrineOne cannot expect to fathom all the torah, but you seek the more difficult torah to wrestle meanings for the hard readings. I prefer to read the easier and more important themes first.AHHH – the difference between a Rabbi and a believer You say studying scripture at depth is hard So you prefer just to stick to your doctrineD" You ask – how can God be in two places at the same time I say SPIRIT – and God is more than a man R: " Sure a medium can radiate, YOU DENY THE SPIRIT - you need to change the name so you can argue against the concept of spirit You SCREAM - There is no spirit – only physical biology You negate the idea that light is also a Particle, hence a Personal Being. But again Science dwells in mysteries, so I side with both Particle and Wave properties for energy. But again you negate this idea. SO we disagree over fundamental properties of light. Light travels as a wave – always Light is measurable as a particle whenever it interact with matter There is no complicated mysteryD" There is only ONE TRUE CREATOR that is absolute The entire concept of two gods = pagan R" I see, so your GOD allows for evil and thus has to be evil to allow evil to remain doing it's ra, all under the will of GOD.There you go – Isa 45:7 mandates that your God is a sinner Gen 6:7 So Adonai said, “I will wipe out humankind, - your God is a sinner Rev 20:14 were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire. Why do you refuse to define sin?You throw the word around – there is a sin problem here – and you cannot define it FOr me, all the despicable moral evil, comes from another source. A father of sin, Rom 5:19 For just as through the disobedience of one man, many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of one man, many will be set right forever. Sin entered the world when man chose to disobey GodYou run around saying you do not deny any scriptureThis allows me peace, because GOD is NOT the author of SIN, and moral evil, some other wicked Being is.YES! His name = MANOnce in the country my wife and I attended a CHurch of England on Sunday, and only 4 cars rocked up, the Priest told us to leave, after a while because no body read the Bible in the Daily Bread studies. I was way too vocal and excited to read Scripture. B.S – The Church of England is Episcopal and preach an Anglican doctrine You were way too excited to argue scripture and be disruptive to another congregation The Daily Bread is a nice little devotional – it sure does not preach SDA ideas Their host parent is Presbyterian But the basic question still remains. Why are there these three instances in the Tanach where Elohim receives a plural verb?"Not Complicated – Not a mystery - TRINITYTo me the simple answer is consider elohiym as "family power". Fits all 2000 sentences nicely. Prove me wrong. You can't. YES ROBERT – The Father, The Mother, and the child is a family picture This is not proof that all three are different and independent gods D" All Jews see God as a duality – Male Father in heaven on His Throne + Female Spirit Shekinah `that extends from the father and moves among the people – R" I see. How is this not polythesism than if your a Jew?Because Jews believe Hebrew scriptureExo 33:18-33 – the Jews have a Father Creator that you cannot see But you can experience Him as spirit (glory) or see him in 3D form (Back) – a duality Please explain how this is three different individual gods passing past Moses The agl completes the image – unseen Father Creator – female Spirit Comforter – male image of God = Christ = a Trinity – not a duality D" You don’t because you Can’t – because satan is not God’s opponent in a war R" Really? Consider this verse, and apply the reverse logic to it. Nu 22:22 A messenger from elohiym was functioning as an opposer to Baalim YES – the oppose satan is a servant of the Lord performing a function I absolutely agreeJude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. Cain, Balaam and Koran, are all examples of pure morally evil people. 2Pe 2:15 Notice the kind way God describes these false prophets. Empty storms, all bang but no rain. So if GOD opposes them, these wicked empty storm prophets must by definition also oppose GOD. Does this make sense to you?NO it does not So if someone becomes brainwashed by a religious doctrine (Mormon, JW, Bahi – which the SDA is linked with through Miller) Then they spend the next 50 years of their life winning people to the Lord (their doctrine) But when they get to heaven – they discover it had all be a false doctrine Therefore you insist their motive was to oppose God and hated God all their life – ridicules So if GOD opposes them, - HOW – does he stop them or let them continue to preach?Answer – they continue to preach and their Judgement in heaven is MORE SEVER Because they should have known better Mat 5:19 Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever keeps and teaches them, this one shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. You negate the term 'oppose' OK try the meaning 'adversary'. What is an adversary? Somebody who opposes you.You can call it peanut butter – the opposition is between archon and man – not two gods one of tov and one of ra in heavenWhat is an opponent? A being who opposes you. You both oppose each other.So if I stand up and say I hate you – you are also guilty of hating? So all you have to do is accuse – and the one you accuse is always guilty rediculas D" All your "hoo har" over 49 verses verses 23, doesn't matter, I need only one verse, apart from Ezek and Isa, I have Rev 12. There was war in heaven? R Dave, Scripture says love covering a multitude of errors and wrongs. But you mock me, bring back misquotes to suit your view. I never go back and misquote you out of context. This is a misquote – you never said this?Correction – the very bases of your Great Controversy = god satan opposing God I have been begging you so give me ONE VERSE anywhere – inside or out of the Torah that your satan oppose God
You respond with frustration and claim you have a two verse doctrine that overrides the truth of scriptureStill to this day – all you cling to is a doctrine built upon two versesWhy do you negate Ezekial and Rev 12 so easily?I don’t – they belong exactly where they are – in their own context Ezk 28 is about man – you deny the spirit and insist man is only biology Therefore two word in the middle of 83 verses in a row of 3 chapters in a row can be plucked out of context top build your entire doctrine of satan the god I fully embrace Rev 12:7 and the archon were cast from heaven But you have creatures intentionally designed by GOD with self. Hence to me this means they are already sinning from birth.So cows, cockroaches and bacteria are sinners because they function by instinct The problem here is your failure to define sin – you have a sin problem but you refuse to define it Archon – meaning governor – ruler of a territory – to have dominion over a domain I could not agree more kathistemi - meaning to make one aR" Well is kathistemi means to make one an archon, a ruler who rules, and you could not agree with me more, why are you opposing my meanings?STOP IT – you know what you say is error and you say it any way Well kathistemi means to make one an anything – a plumber – a banker – a prophet G2525 – καθίστημι - Were made – designated – appointed – ordained Intensely established
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2021 14:24:12 GMT -5
(1) Mt 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
(2) Mt 24:47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
(3) Mt 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
(4)Mt 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
First 4 are considered by KJV?
(5) Lu 12:14 And he said unto him, Man, who made me a judge or a divider over you?
A judge is a ruler over you, when you are put under his power.
(6) Lu 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
(7) Lu 12:44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
(8) Ac 6:3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
If you establish as you claim an elder in the church, that elder rules your church affairs, does he not? And thus rules over you, when you attend His church affairs.
(9) Ac 7:10 And delivered him out of all his afflictions, and gave him favour and wisdom in the sight of Pharaoh king of Egypt; and he made him governor over Egypt and all his house.
This makes shayitt into the meaning to rule. A governor is a ruler. DUH.
(10)Ac 7:27 But he that did his neighbour wrong thrust him away, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge over us?
(11) Ac 7:35 This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush.
(12) Ac 17:15 And they that conducted Paul brought him unto Athens: and receiving a commandment unto Silas and Timotheus for to come to him with all speed, they departed.
(13) Ro 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
(14) Tit 1:5 � For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
(15) Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Is man a ruler over Creation? is what this is saying?
(16) Heb 5:1 � For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
(17) Heb 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.
The law ruleth high priests, telling high priests what to do...
(18)Heb 8:3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
(19)Jas 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
(20) Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
(21) 2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.(KJV)
Here are all the NT uses of kathestemi
Consider your "intensely established" idea.
(12) Ac 17:15 And they "intensely established" Paul, brought him unto Athens:
Does this make sense?
(12) Ac 17:15 And they "ruled" Paul, brought him unto Athens
Here the idea of ruling over Paul, forced him, influenced him to go to Athens.
If most of these verses are translated with ruler type words by the scholars of the KJV, why Dave do you argue with me, that the word does NOT mean "one who rules"?
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 15, 2021 16:41:55 GMT -5
Here are all the NT uses of kathestemi I thought we were talking about Rom 5:19 κατεσταθησαν Aorist, Passive Voice, Indicative Mood, 3rd Person: Plural of G2525 – καθίστημι - Were made – designated – appointed – ordained - Intensely established
Consider your "intensely established" idea.
Mat 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? (1) Mt 24:45 made ruler = κατέστησεν ὁ κύριος Aorist, Active Voice, Indicative, Mood, 3rd Person: Singular The Lord - designated – appointed – ordained - Intensely established – them as (κύριος) G2962 – κύριος- (supremacy); supreme in authority, controller; Lord, master, Sir.
(2) Mt 24:47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. αὐτοῦ καταστήσει αὐτόν. Future Tense, Voice: Active, Mood: Indicative, Person: third [he/she/it], Number: Singular Good of yours (will be designated –will be appointed – will be ordained – will be Intensely established) yours
(3) Mt 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. πολλων σε καταστήσω· Tense: Future, Voice: Active, Mood: Indicative, Person: first , Number: Singular Many things (will be designated –will be appointed – will be ordained – will be Intensely established) yours
(4)Mt 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. πολλων σε καταστησω Many things (will be designated –will be appointed – will be ordained – will be Intensely established) yours
(5) Lu 12:14 And he said unto him, Man, who made me a judge or a divider over you? κατέστησε δικαστήν Tense: Aorist, Voice: Active, Mood: Indicative, Person: third [he/she/it], Number: Singular (designated – appointed – ordained - Intensely established) judge
(6) Lu 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? καταστήσει ὁ κύριος Tense: Future, Voice: Active, Mood: Indicative, Person: third [he/she/it], Number: Singular (will be designated –will be appointed – will be ordained – will be Intensely established) supreme in authority, controller; Lord, master, Sir.
(7) Lu 12:44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. αὐτοῦ καταστήσει αὐτόν. Tense: Future, Voice: Active, Mood: Indicative, Person: third [he/she/it], Number: Singular Good of yours (will be designated –will be appointed – will be ordained – will be Intensely established) yours
(8) Ac 6:3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business. οὓς καταστήσομεν ἐπὶ τῆς χρείας Tense: Future, Voice: Active, Mood: Indicative, Person: first [we], Number: Plural You - (will be designated –will be appointed – will be ordained – will be Intensely established) – into the affairs surrounding you
If you establish as you claim an elder in the church, that elder rules your church affairs, does he not? And thus rules over you, when you attend His church affairs. No he is appointed into the affairs around him – says nothing about ruling anything
(9) Ac 7:10 And delivered him out of all his afflictions, and gave him favour and wisdom in the sight of Pharaoh king of Egypt; and he made him governor over Egypt and all his house. καὶ κατέστησεν αὐτὸν ηγουμενον Tense: Aorist, Voice: Active, Mood: Indicative, Person: third [he/she/it], Number: Singular (designated – appointed – ordained - Intensely established) +G2233 - ἡγέομαι - hēgeomai - to lead, that is, command (with official authority)
This makes shayitt into the meaning to rule. A governor is a ruler. DUH. Shayitt in this sentence would be hēgeomai – NOT kathestemi DUH
(12) Ac 17:15 And they "intensely established" Paul, brought him unto Athens: Does this make sense? But they that conducted Paul brought him οἱ δὲ καθιστῶντες τὸν Παῦλον ἤγαγον αὐτὸν Tense: Present, Voice: Active, Mood: Participle, Case: Nominative (subject; predicate nominative), Number: Plural, Gender: Masculine It is not the verb in this sentence – it is a Participle (a verb posing as a noun)
They (men) but - (designated – appointed – ordained - Intensely established) Paul ηγαγον
Ηγαγον = G71 - ἄγω - A primary verb; properly to lead; by implication to bring, drive, (reflexively) go, The VERB - (specifically) pass (time), or (figuratively) induce: - be, bring (forth), carry, (let) go, keep, lead away, Tense: second Aoris, Voice: Active, Mood: Indicative, Person: third [they], Number: Plural
But they (men) (designated – appointed – ordained - Intensely established) Paul to be brought – to be led
(12) Ac 17:15 And they "ruled" Paul, brought him unto Athens Here the idea of ruling over Paul, forced him, influenced him to go to Athens. INCORRECT – those men were designated to bring Paul – those men were appointed -/ established t5o bring Paul
Those men = subject + καθιστῶντες a Participle (a verb posing as a noun)a predicate nominative + the verb + the verb ηγαγον – to lead (indicative indicates - do it NOW)
If most of these verses are translated with ruler type words by the scholars of the KJV, why Dave do you argue with me, that the word does NOT mean "one who rules"?
I argue because you are wrong Never does the word kathestemi mean to be a ruler – it is a verb meaning (designated – appointed – ordained - Intensely established)
Your word games fail you – you really need to learn to translate
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2021 5:21:41 GMT -5
OK I will investigate your discussion carefully, please be patient to prove me wrong
Let's use your term "intensely established"
(1) Mt 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord "intensely established" over his household, to give them meat in due season?
What functional role did the Lord "intensely established" in this servant in his house? None given.
(2) Mt 24:47 Verily I say unto you, That he "intensely established""intensely established" over all his goods.
The Greek word is written twice. How does this make sense?
(3) Mt 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will "intensely established""intensely established" over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
The Greek word is written twice. How does this make sense?
(4)Mt 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will "intensely established""intensely established" over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
The Greek word is written twice. How does this make sense?
(8) Ac 6:3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we "intensely established" over this business.
What was intensely established? The words do not say?
(9) Ac 7:10 And delivered him out of all his afflictions, and gave him favour and wisdom in the sight of Pharaoh king of Egypt; and he "intensely established" him governor over Egypt and all his house.
This is interesting in Greek, but the Hebrew does not include the governor word in Greek
In Genesis 42:6 only the kathestemi word, shayllit is used. Why does the Greek add another word, when the Hebrew doesn't have to?
(13) Ro 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were "intensely established" sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be "intensely established" righteous.
How does a man's sin intensively establish others to be sinners? No reason is given.
How does Jesus obedience intensively establish straightness in a sinner. No reason given.
Ge 42:6 And Joseph was the governor (shalliyt) over the land, and he it was that sold to all the people of the land: and Joseph's brethren came, and bowed down themselves before him with their faces to the earth.
Ec 7:19 Wisdom strengtheneth the wise more than ten mighty (shalliyt) ( men) which are in the city.
Ec 8:8 There is no man that hath power (shalliyt) over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it. {discharge: or, casting off weapons}
Ec 10:5 There is an evil which I have seen under the sun, as an error which proceedeth from the ruler (shalliyt) : {from: Heb. from before} (KJV)
Joseph was intensely established over the land? No functional role given?
Wisdom strengthens the wise more than ten intensely established in the city? Who are these ten intensely established in the city?
No man is intensely established in the spirit to retain the spirit...?
There is ra I have seen under the sun, as an error coming from the intensely established. No functional role given?
The KJV in the OT even alludes to ruler in one context.
These few examples should suffice Dave.
You word meaning is lacking meaning, and context. The KJV does a better job, using ruler for some sentences.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 16, 2021 13:56:08 GMT -5
OK I will investigate your discussion carefully, please be patient to prove me wrong Please – I am not putting you down in any way – but your conclusion about the Greek is in error This has nothing to do with theology – it is just simple tranlstion
Let's use your term "intensely established" You deliberately miss use the definition so you can twist it into something that doesn’t fit STOP IT – be serious – be honest
I AM NOT A Greek expert and do not claim to be – but this is simply translation and I have been translating Greek since 1972 (First class)
Here is where you began Rom 5:19 ὥσπερ γὰρ διὰ τῆς παρακοῆς τοῦ ἑνὸς ἀνθρώπου ἁμαρτωλοὶ κατεστάθησαν οἱ πολλοί, οὕτω καὶ διὰ τῆς ὑπακοῆς τοῦ ἑνὸς δίκαιοι κατασταθήσονται οἱ πολλοί.
And you are struggling with the words κατεστάθησαν and κατασταθήσονται
Root word G2525 – καθίστημι - From G2596 and G2476; to place down (permanently), that is, (figuratively) to designate, constitute, convoy: - appoint, be, conduct, make, ordain, set.
This is a compound word G2596 +G2476
G2596 – κατά - A primary particle; (preposition) down (in place or time), in varied relations (according to the case [genitive, dative or accusative] with which it is joined): - about, according as (to), after, against, (when they were) X alone, among, and, X apart, (even, like) as (concerning, pertaining to, touching), X aside, at, before, beyond, by, to the charge of, [charita-] bly, concerning, + covered, [dai-] ly, down, every, (+ far more) exceeding, X more excellent, for, from . . . to, godly, in (-asmuch, divers, every, -to, respect of), . . . by, after the manner of, + by any means, beyond (out of) measure, X mightily, more, X natural, of (up-) on (X part), out (of every), over against, (+ your) X own, + particularly, so, through (-oughout, -oughout every), thus, (un-) to (-gether, -ward), X uttermost, where (-by), with. In composition it retains many of these applications, and frequently denotes opposition, distribution or intensity.
Κατά – mean a lot of different things – but - In composition it retains many of these applications, and frequently denotes opposition, distribution or intensity.
G2476 - ἵστημι - histēmi - A prolonged form of a primary word στάω staō (of the same meaning, and used for it in certain tenses); to stand (transitively or intransitively), used in various applications (literally or figuratively): - abide, appoint, bring, continue, covenant, establish, hold up, lay, present, set (up), stanch, stand (by, forth, still, up).
Κατά + ἵστημι = (opposition, distribution or intensity)+(to stand (transitively or intransitively), abide, appoint, bring, continue, covenant, establish, hold up, lay, present, set (up))
(Emphasis)+( (to stand (transitively or intransitively), + (appoint, establish, set (up))
More than – ya you are appointed big deal – but WOW you are APPOINTED!!!! Let's use your term "intensely established" – more like (ESTABLISHED!)
(1) Mt 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord "intensely established" over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord ESTABLISHED over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord APPOINTED over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord SET UP over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Mat 24:45 Τίς ἄρα ἐστὶν ὁ πιστὸς δοῦλος καὶ φρόνιμος, ὃν κατέστησεν ὁ κύριος αὐτοῦ ἐπὶ τῆς θεραπείας αὐτοῦ τοῦ διδόναι αὐτοῖς τὴν τροφὴν ἐν καιρῷ;
This is the phrase in question - ὃν κατέστησεν ὁ κύριος αὐτοῦ
ὃν - Relative pronoun, Case: Accusative (direct object; motion toward; time: "how long"), Singular, Masculine
κατέστησεν - Verb, Tense: Aorist, Voice: Active, Mood: Indicative, Person: third [he/she/it] He stablished it right now for sure Certainly he appointed it without question He definitely set it up now
ὁ κύριος - G2962 – κύριος - From κῦρος kuros (supremacy); supreme in authority, that is, (as noun) controller; by implication Mr. (as a respectful title): - God, Lord, master, Sir. Noun, Case: Nominative (subject; predicate nominative), Singular, Masculine
Sentence structure = ὃν -masculine singular pronoun direct object = subject; predicate nominative ὁ κύριος
GRAMMAR - predicate nominative a word in the nominative case that completes a copulative verb, such as son in the sentence Charlie is my son. Or my example a=b – except in this case it is b=a
Translation WHOM - He stablished it right now for sure, Certainly he appointed it without question, He definitely set it up now the supreme in authority, that is, (as noun) controller
Whom – he (God) stablished – controler/ruler of αὐτοῦ
αὐτοῦ = is in indefinite pronoun and can me anything or everything Personal pronoun, Case: Genative (possession, "of"), Singular, Masculine
Whom – he (God) stablished – controler/ruler of all his stuff Whom – he (God) stablished – controler/ruler of everything he has
(TLV) whom the master put in charge of his household (YLT) whom his lord did set over his household (ASV) whom his lord hath set over his household,
(Bishops) whom his Lorde hath made ruler ouer his householde, (KJV) whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, In these two translations G2525 – καθίστημι = ‘Lord hath made” In these two translations G2962 – κύριος = ruler
(2) Mt 24:47 Verily I say unto you, That he "intensely established""intensely established" over all his goods. The Greek word is written twice. How does this make sense?
Mat 24:47 ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι ἐπὶ πᾶσι τοῖς ὑπάρχουσιν αὐτοῦ καταστήσει αὐτόν. – only once
(3) Mt 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will "intensely established""intensely established" over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:21 ἔφη αὐτῷ ὁ κύριος αὐτοῦ· εὖ, δοῦλε ἀγαθὲ καὶ πιστέ· ἐπὶ ὀλίγα ἦς πιστός, ἐπὶ πολλῶν σε καταστήσω· εἴσελθε εἰς τὴν χαρὰν τοῦ κυρίου σου. – only once
(4)Mt 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will "intensely established""intensely established" over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:23 ἔφη αὐτῷ ὁ κύριος αὐτοῦ· εὖ, δοῦλε ἀγαθὲ καὶ πιστέ· ἐπὶ ὀλίγα ἦς πιστός, ἐπὶ πολλῶν σε καταστήσω· εἴσελθε εἰς τὴν χαρὰν τοῦ κυρίου σου. – only once
The Greek word is written twice. How does this make sense? Not sure where you are getting your information - but it is ERROR I have a hard copy - that I never use My electronic copy = esword - totally free - includes anything you would ever need My gripes about it - ther are about 60 different translations - but OJB and NIV have to be bought Study tools - I have several Greek tools and RMAC is amazing for a beginner translator Most of it FREE
(8) Ac 6:3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we "intensely established" over this business.
What was intensely established? The words do not say? You deliberately stuble over word games – just so you can twist scripture into error
Act 6:3 So, brothers, select from among you seven reputable men, full of the Spirit and wisdom, whom we may put in charge of this duty. DUH – 7 men Born Again men were put in charge of this duty
(9) Ac 7:10 And delivered him out of all his afflictions, and gave him favour and wisdom in the sight of Pharaoh king of Egypt; and he "intensely established" him governor over Egypt and all his house.
This is interesting in Greek, but the Hebrew does not include the governor word in Greek Please quote the Hebrew NT to me – you do not have one The agl was written in Greek – that is why we call it ancient Greek language The attempt to translate the Greek back into Hebrew just adds another layer of human error
In Genesis 42:6 only the kathestemi word, shayllit is used. Why does the Greek add another word, when the Hebrew doesn't have to?
This is not true Robert – if you do not stick to the fact how can you ever move forward? Gen 42:6 Ιωσηφ δὲ ἦν ἄρχων
In Gen 42:6 ἄρχων (Governor, ruler, principality) = shayllit
(13) Ro 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were "intensely established" sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be "intensely established" righteous.
How does a man's sin intensively establish others to be sinners? No reason is given. DUH – sin entered the world through Adam κατεσταθησαν - Tense: Aorist,(simple past tense), Voice: Passive (the idea of doing something to oneself), Mood: Indicative (something real -for sure), Person: third [they], Plural In the past all men - were apponited/set up/established - for sure - because of something man does to himself
How does Jesus obedience intensively establish straightness in a sinner. No reason given. Now you question salvation through Christ – you are too desperate κατασταθησονται - Tense: Future, Voice: Passive, Mood: Indicative, Person: third [they], Plural In the future many men will be appointed/established/set up - for sure - because of something man does to himself
What will man do for himself in the future - believe
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2021 14:41:45 GMT -5
Please – I am not putting you down in any way – but your conclusion about the Greek is in error This has nothing to do with theology – it is just simple translationOK you are right, my electronic bible interlinear is letting me down. (thrown up double root words even, error, correct) So I should just read the Bible in the English, like everybody else does and assume the KJV is good. Which it is most times. You mention one point, I would like you to clarify DUH – sin entered the world through AdamCan you explain this? What does Adam's sinning have to do with my functional living and dying with the Lord? What was established when Adam did his one and only sin? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 16, 2021 15:26:47 GMT -5
OK you are right, my electronic bible interlinear is letting me down. (thrown up double root words even, error, correct)Not sure what you are using – but this is not the first time it has failed you with the Greek I recommend the free download - e-sword.en.softonic.com/downloadEveryone I know uses it – many churches here list it in a Church Bulletin as a go to reference I have (KJV) Joh 6:4 And the passover, a feast of the Jews, was nigh. I have (KJV+) Joh 6:4 And G1161 the G3588 passover, G3957 etc (GK) Joh 6:4 ἦν δὲ ἐγγὺς τὸ πάσχα, ἡ ἑορτὴ τῶν ᾿Ιουδαίων. (GK+) Joh 6:4 ην G1510 V-IAI-3S δε G1161 CONJ εγγυς G1451 ADV το G3588 T-NSN πασχα G3957 ARAM η G3588 T-NSF εορτη G1859 N-NSF των G3588 T-GPM ιουδαιων G2453 A-GPM I could have tanak (but it is usless to me) so I have (Tanak+) Gen 1:1 בראשׁית H7225 ברא H1254 אלהים H430 את H853 השׁמים H8064 ואת H853 הארץ׃ H776(LXX) Gen 1:1 Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἐποίησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν οὐρανὸν καὶ τὴν γῆν. (LXX+) Gen 1:1 εν G1722 PREP αρχη G746 N-DSF εποιησεν G4160 V-AAI-3S ο G3588 T-NSM etc
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Post by Dave on Feb 16, 2021 15:56:23 GMT -5
Can you explain this? What does Adam's sinning have to do with my functional living and dying with the Lord? What was established when Adam did his one and only sin?
You have been a Christian for how long? A Christian teacher? And you cannot explain this to another?
Adam = Man = man = Adam = mankind = humanity = all men – everyman - any man
Adam (proper noun) was the first (no he wasn’t Eve was – but it is a man’s world - right) Eve was a (wo)man = man – a member of mankind
Through one man sin entered the world could be EVE
Adam and Eve (man) was placed in the garden Man was perfect in all his ways until unrighteous was found within him Eve ate the fruit – man ate the fruit – Adam ate the fruit
Every man comes into this world perfect – but just like the First Man (Adam and Eve) we all chata – because our bodies are just animals = yester ra – and it is fully expressed long before we even know what we are doing
Just like Eve – Just like Adam – just like all man/men/humanity/mankind
What was established when Adam did his one and only sin? Remember Eve was first – so - What was established when you only did your first sin? God had to pull away from you – and left you on your own –
All men come from God – into the womb at conception – and we are in communion with the God even after our birth for about 90 days – until we start expressing our animal (yester ra) – then God can no longer be in our presence / oil and water never mix / - we break the communion – and we are left on our own
Soul-journing in this 3D physical Kingdom of the Archon – with only (Mind/Body) to leads us Yet inside of each of us is a yester tov that tries to be heard – but man is too busy listening to yester ra – trying to make a living off his land – to make money – dealing with chemicals and governments - to live the way he wishes
In the end =- we all return to God
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2021 14:20:47 GMT -5
"All men come from God – into the womb at conception – and we are in communion with the God even after our birth for about 90 days – until we start expressing our animal (yester ra) – then God can no longer be in our presence / oil and water never mix / - we break the communion – and we are left on our own
DO you believe this? I don't. Please explain.
"All men come from God – into the womb at conception – and we are in communion with the God even after our birth until our probation of living ends – God can tolerate two masters ruling our soul, but longs to be the sole master of your relationship to GOD / - we break the communion inside the compassion center of the womb of GOD – and we ourselves live in a state of missing the perfect awesome mighty flow of GOD's power. Instead we receive a trickle from our own doing.
Ex 21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
Who does the mischief to the compassion center of GOD, disrupting our development inside the powers of GOD? Self is our biggest enemy, but is self our only enemy? Where does this mischief come from?
When Adam sinned, this LAW Ex 21:23, came upon Adam and his DNA, so this is why death to our DNA happens, somebody, something caused mischief.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 18, 2021 12:32:08 GMT -5
I have been corrected – I did not describe Sephardic Judaism correctlyIf I offend – I stand corrected – but the point I wanted to make and make now = There are 2 basic types of Judaism – since the very beginning Spiritual Jews and biological Jew In Jewish culture – all are Jews – but they distinguish some as ‘practicing Jews’ All men are biology – but some attain a level of spiritual awakening(wiki) Sadducee - a member of a Jewish sect or party of the time of Jesus Christ that denied the resurrection of the dead, the existence of spirits, and the obligation of oral tradition, emphasizing acceptance of the written Law alone. TEMPLE CENTRIC – and their companion Commentary = The Talmud Today – this is a small percentage of ‘mainstream’ Judaism – ultra Orthodox – Black Hats with curls This is a smaller fraction of Judaism today and it - it is most dominate in Israel itself. The clog the roads on the Sabbath so people can’t drive or use their streets It is this fraction of Judaism that desires for a 3rd temple of stone (wiki) The Pharisees asserted that God could and should be worshipped even away from the Temple and outside Jerusalem. To the Pharisees, worship consisted not in bloody sacrifices—the practice of the Temple priests—but in prayer and in the study of God's law. THE PHARISEES HAVE CHRISTIAN LIKE BELIEFS – because they believe in the spiritual They were the guys in the temple studying the scrolls at depth They were the Rabbis that wrote the most opinion These are the Rabbis that embrace Korbats Their Commentary = The Kabbalah – Christians call it mysticism – Rabbis see it spiritual This is mainstream Judaism today – more inclusive – less ancient in its appearance and demands This is the Judaism that gave rise the Ashkenazi Jews – the brightest gene pool of the planet Jewish Kabbalah embraced a 10D reality (and many things) long before science The Kabbalah is not a Bible – it is a collection of Rabbinic opinion through the years (3500yrears) The Kabbalah include all the ahl – not just Tanak – all the ancient Hebrew language You read King Solomon – there are a race of gross beings (invisible to us) that plague mankind – all fathered by one guy Solomon never used the word satan in any of it This is a race/species of invisible trouble makers Why do they cause trouble – because they feed on the chaos – they do it for entertainment? Islam call them Jinn – and they feed on your fear Japanese /Asia – call them shades and they feed on your fear Catholicism has an entire Vatican filled with demonology - and much of it from the same source Today – New Age vocabulary they become redefined in modern terms Interdimensional visitors (aliens UFOs) + shadow people I have two very close experiences with what I would call shadow people My wife – swears she and two others sisters of here church on a mission were frightened to leave their assignments because of Ghost (her witness) Pharisee style Jews today (Two groups that inspire me)Chabad.org – is not Rabbi Friedman’s – but they host him He is a recognized Jewish leader from Minnesota – large following in America People pay to hear him speak And videos from – The Hebrew Institute of Jerusalem Also posted in this forum You speak of returning to the proto-HebrewThe Book of Creation says – 10 is the number – not 9 not 11 only 10 And then it says the 22 letters d the proto-Hebrew are the template upon which creation occurred Listen to the Rabbi speak of Adam naming the all the animals – how did Adam know all their names? Adam saw a D tumbling down the heavens – then an O – followed by a G = and there was a dog this is how Adam knew it was a dog – because it was a dog Michael Rood – is a loud Messianic Jews Ok but – has had two failed churched before – arrested for fraud Some of his guest are too bazar (commercial) a lot of ‘religious stuff’ for sale And begs for money If have not look at the inter-testament period – you are missing a whole lot of JudaismFor 180 years before Christ Judaism preached the Resurrection! For 167 years before Christ the Temple was cleansed of Tammuz and Pig sacrifices The Temple was REDEDICATED – Hanukah – The Miracle of Light Now the Jewish Parade was completeFrom the beginning – man needs to stop and consider atonement – God came to Tabernacle with man – salvation is of the Lord – followed by Passover – Pentecost – and a rededication of the temple The Jews of the ahl – did not follow the ahl – they lived and died all the way through itIn all of it – did a Rabbi ever fear a satan – NO Did anyone of the time of Jesus – think of satan as you do - NO You speak of returning to the Hebrew I say – what was the common knowledge / the religious knowledge / the thinking / the mind set of the common man / average man during the First Century AD This was the generation that was chosen to hear and see for themselves When Jesus spoke – what did they hear – how did they take it – what did it mean to themAll men are biology – but some attain a level of spiritual awakening All men are biology – but some men have seen – and experienced spirit lifeKey word here – experiencePaul hated Jesus in the morning and by afternoon KNEW THE TRUTH = BOOM! – no doubt anymore John, James, and Peter saw Jesus TRANSFIGURED – BOOM! they saw the spirit world 2Ki 6:17 Then Elisha prayed and said, “Adonai, please open his eyes that he may see.” Hs absolutely nothing to do with biology and everything to do with spirit All men are biology – but some men have seen – and experienced spirit life And wrote about it for the rest of usAll men are biology – but Jesus Christ ROSE FROM THE DEAD - some men have seen – and experienced spirit life There is a spiritual reality – Christ – God – Heaven -angels and Spirits and armies and host in heaves are real – yet invisible to man (biology) There is a lot of spiritual life – life in the spiritual realm(s) “HOST IN HEAVEN” Where is spiritual life – it is all invisible to man – not 3D physical There is witness after witness to this fact all the ages I have posted reference to many such witnessesYou blow it off – fail to respond - because you cannot understand itwww.newsfilecorp.com/release/18880/Thunder-Energies-Discovers-Invisible-EntitiesThunder Energies presents evidence for the existence of Invisible Terrestrial Entities (ITE) if the dark and bright type.Two types of invisible entities (spiritual) bright and dark Hmmm? "All men come from God – into the womb at conception – and we are in communion with the God even after our birth for about 90 days – until we start expressing our animal (yester ra) – then God can no longer be in our presence / oil and water never mix / - we break the communion – and we are left on our own During our souljourn – God makes it plainly obvious to any one that looks that there is only One True Creator – everywhere the biological man looks – there is God – look in a telescope or a microscope – there is God – for there is no other
If it is ra we see – it is just God disciplining those he loves the most If we are being tested in some way – it is God looking into our hearts Sometime God does it Himself by raising the Philistines up against them Is it Ok for God to do this – 2Sa 24:1 Now the anger of Adonai again flared up against Israel, so He incited David Remember God never leaves His Throne – it is always a messenger 1Ch 21:1 Then satan stood up against Israel and incited David
Judaism teaches that – everyman is Job And God sent satan unto Job to test him Deu 8:2 —in order to humble you, to test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His mitzvot or not
Judaism teaches that we are all Adam and Eve We all come into this world PERFECT – until unrighteous is found within us
And to those whom God calls Our mission in life is to remember God – recognize what is in our (biological) sights – and witness to the spiritual reality we know as true – the Glory of God (Jer 1:5) DO you believe this? Yes I do believe this and so did the audience of Jesus ChristWhen Jesus quoted Enoch – or used Proper names like Beelzebub - the audience of Jesus did not stop him and say who? – no – everyone knew exactly what was being discussed YES – the audience was primed to receive the GospelEven the other major Roman religeon taought that Mithra was born of a virgin, preached at age 12, had a ministry at age 30, died upon a tree, and was resurrectd Know your history YES – the audience was primed to receive the GospelJesus came to the Jews FIRST – speaking Judaism to them The First Christians were primarily Messianic Jews Jews gathered at the Temple for the Harvest Festival – The Feast of Weeks – Pentecost BOOM! – they felt the HS pass through them – give them a gift – they all left as Messianic Jews Spiritual – the gift of the Comforter – the HS dwelling within you Luk 9:1 Now when Yeshua called the twelve together, He gave them power and authority over all the demons and to heal diseases. Luk 9:2 He sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to heal. Speaking in tongues, healing by laying on of hands, discernment, prophesy, the power over demons (archon) = all gifet of the SPIRIT I don't believe this Please explain.I know – you deny the spirit and have a post Roman doctrine that transforms Messianic Judaism into a different religion with different gods"All men come from God – into the womb at conception – BOOM – already we disagree!Where does your man come from – only 2 options 1- man is nothing more than an animal just like cows and cockroaches 2- God creates a man every day – (wiki) The 2016 average of 18.6 births per 1,000 total population equates to approximately 4.3 births per second or about 256 births per minute for the world. So you God creates ever second of every day Disagree Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. For Judaism and all the Christianity I have been exposed to suggest CEATION IS OVER All the host of heaven were already made – done – there in heaven NO NEW CREATION – GOD IS RESTING FROM CREATION You repeated say – no spirt/ no soul only biology – this is your solution1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. You repeated say – no spirt/ no soul only biology – this is your solutionYou make man no more special than a smart monkey – just like Darwinand we are in communion with the God even after our birth until our probation of living ends – Depends on what you mean by communionI say it is a bi-directional communication YES - God is reaching out to every man until mortal death YES - the HS sustainer supply the e of the E on a subatomic level that makes life possible But a serial killer – a Muslim beheading a Christian in the name of Allah is not in a bidirectional communication with God the father God can tolerate two masters ruling our soul,I agree – yester ra or yester tov – it is an inner struggleI agree - it is the tanner struggle + the demands of the physical 3D realty and the archon I agree – it is the inner struggle + any testing God lies upon us I agree – it is the inner struggle + any testing God lies upon us – by use of others (archon – who is a satan by definition) God longs to be the sole master of your relationship to GODYES – God is the Father waiting the return of the Prodigal Son God Loves man so much He gave Man the ability to choose God’s love for creation – unrequited – one directional – God love all even the sinners But the Love between the Prodigal Son and the Father is bi-directional and genuine = REWARD - we break the communion inside the compassion center of the womb of GOD – and we ourselves live in a state of missing the perfect awesome mighty flow of GOD's power. Instead we receive a trickle from our own doing.Very religious and churchly soundingWe are all Adam and Eve We all are born perfect – and we each sin – there are none righteous no not one we are in communion with God - until we start expressing our animal (yester ra) – then God can no longer be in our presence / oil and water never mix / - we break the communion – and we are left on our own We are left alone in the world to find God – to find our way back to God Isa 59:2 Rather, your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God. Your sins have hidden His face from you, so that He does not hear. The Prodigal Son leaves the father – enters the world – remembers the Father and what it was like at home – and returns to the Father all on his own This is our mission in life – the meaning of life (Jer 1:5 – remember and witness) Ex 21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, When Adam sinned, this LAW Ex 21:23, came upon Adam and his DNA, so this is why death to our DNA happens, somebody, something caused mischief.Here ya go biology man and your DNA - you know this was written for a specific infraction YES – the wages of sin = death This was written to man about man We also know that the archon – Beast/Dragon – Devil – and false prophets are all cast into the lake of fire Are they just as sinner? – it does not say this – it say not written in the Book of Life First God uses satan – just like JobRev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations 1 King 22 – to be a deceiving spirit is not a sin – if it is ordered/willed/commanded/requested by GOD It is not a sin to be God’s messenger – facilitating God’s will tov or ra Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire BUT there are all cast into the Lake of Fire – WHYThe bane elohiym of Gen 6 Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; These are the shedim/archon/demons of Rev 9 and rev 20:7 All of it scriptural and none of it requires an evil god named satan with a red suit, horns, tail, and pitch fork with a kingdom called hell and filled with demons that all use to be angelsYou deny that God cannot make a self creture that is destined to die in the end But your God does make cows, chicken, and cockroaches You are confused because you want to be
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2021 14:28:45 GMT -5
Greetings Dave You write nicely, but some details are missingD" And God sent satan unto Job to test him
De 8:2 ...and to prove <nacah> thee, H5254 'test' 'Over the nations, the prickles. Behold the Being' Job 23:10 ..when he hath tried <bachan> me, I shall come forth as gold H974 'examine' 'Home outside over the nations' The Hebrew word Nacah, is the idea to test mankind over the prickles of sin. Yes. But this is not mentioned in Job. Nacah has positive and negative meanings. Positive, to Test, how you see sin and avoid the prickles. Negative, to Tempt, getting you to make more prickles. Do you see this negative context in Job? Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. What is Satan suggesting to GOD, a testing or a tempting? a positive or a negative? Remember GOD already declared Job was upright and perfect, hence needed no further "bachan" let alone "nacah", either testing or tempting. Your statements are way off the mark. ----------- D" God creates a man every day... So your God creates ever second of every dayR" where you do get the idea, I never said GOD creates every day, just because mankind procreates, making the first birth happen naturally? What's wrong saying GOD does the first birth every time you conceive anyway? Is not GOD involved in all things? The second birth however, is about salvation, and happens to only these under the first birth who choose the second birth, inviting divine processes of development, happens everyday, if you choose this. D: " NO NEW CREATION – GOD IS RESTING FROM CREATIONR" are you suggesting the second birth is not a creation of salvation in man, or just the awaking of a spirit already inside us? R" God can tolerate two masters ruling our soul,D" I agree – yester ra or yester tov – it is an inner struggleR" Yes but only within limits and for a limited time. God actually wants 100% tov from us. D" I agree – it is the inner struggle + any testing God lies upon us – by use of others (archon – who is a satan by definition)R: "NO. Nacah does not mean test AND tempt, nacah means ONLY TEST. Nacah can mean the opposite meaning if a e Being is using the Word in an opposite sense. Job's wife said angrily to her husband "BARAK God and die". She did not mean BLESS, she meant the opposite meaning. Hebrew words do this. English words as far as I know, never does this. You have twisted these angels who once did missing, now cast to earth, are seen as good angels doing a bad job. NO These angels were found missing, have left the Father in heaven, hence are missing GOD. Therefore we have cherub chata, the idea of angels sinning, or fallen from grace. The nacah these angels use is the opposite meanings, to tempt humans to sin. Yes other sinning angels can be "a satan", but the chief angel who sinned first is "the satan". D" We all are born perfect – ....until we start expressing our animal (yester ra) –R: " born perfect....? NO The DNA inside me born from DNA before, from DNA before, until Adam's DNA first, now has mutations inherited from Adam's DNA, is no longer perfect, but missing. My DNA is missing information, hence no longer perfect. We begin doing propensities of ra as soon as the fetus develops the brain, from day 8 of conception, and so the baby is born sinning from birth under normal circumstances. The only exception to this natural process is the Nazarite vow, where the HS overrules the DNA and allows no mischief to happen, so the baby is born without sinning from birth. D: " The Prodigal Son leaves the father – enters the world – remembers the Father and what it was like at home – and returns to the Father all on his ownThe Prodigal Son leaves the father , the meaning here is missing the father. remembers the Father and what it was like at home , the meaning here is salvation – and returns to the Father all on his own, meaning repents from missing. DO you understand the Prodigal Son was missing his father when He left His father? This is a term called chata, may not always imply moral transgression, but does imply missing. D" Here ya go biology man and your DNA - R" DNA is not biology per se, DNA contains the DIVINE WORDS of living. Not about biology at all. You are so wrong. DNA is about WORDS from the DIVINE. When Adam did missing, some of those divine words went missing inside Adam. D" We also know that the archon – Beast/Dragon – Devil – and false prophets are all cast into the lake of fire Are they just as sinner? – it does not say this...
R: " Well it does say they were missing. they left their beginnings. they were cherub that did chata, and were missing. We can leave out the moral defintion of transgression of law, if you like, the point is these angels were missing. Hence why GOD dealt with their missing. D" All of it scriptural and none of it requires an evil god named satan with a red suit, horns, tail, and pitch fork with a kingdom called hell and filled with demons that all use to be angels.R" Who says angels have horns, red suit and tail? Angels have wings of the HS and a glory glow about them. In the sinning angels, they would look like man, without wings and no glow of GOD anywhere near them, they are missing the presence of GOD. D" You deny that God cannot make a self creatureR" Correct GOD cannot make creatures with things missing in the design. Self is missing GOD, by definition a master inside the creature controlling the creature as the creature see fits, alone without God's influence, but definition is missing GOD's influence. If the torah says God provides for the sparrows of the air, than the sparrows are by design not missing God daily in their lives as they fly seeking food provided by the Provider. Some animals are missing GOD get lazy and eat meat instead, like lions do, are by definition missing some divine information inside the DNA that drives their soul of the lion. But the lion is not held accountable for their missing divine influence, only mankind is held accountable because mankind was told to subdue creation and care for it. D: " You are confused because you want to beR Yes you are. I would recommend getting rid of Gnostic supplements and stick to the Hebrew torah as it reads, as a child reads it, plainly and simply. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 18, 2021 16:02:59 GMT -5
some details are missingD" And God sent satan unto Job to test him De 8:2 ...and to prove <nacah> thee, H5254 'test' 'Over the nations, the prickles. Behold the Being' The Hebrew word Nacah, is the idea to test mankind over the prickles of sin. Yes. But this is not mentioned in Job.Gen 22:1 (TLV) Now it was after these things that God tested Abraham. Gen 22:1 (KJV)And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, Num 14:22 (KJV) Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, Num 14:22 (TLV) none of the people who saw My glory and My miraculous signs I performed in Egypt and in the wilderness—yet tested Me these ten times Nacah has positive and negative meanings. Positive, to Test, how you see sin and avoid the prickles.Yep! agreeNegative, to Tempt, getting you to make more prickles.Just depend on which word game you playJob 1:8 - Job 1:11 What is Satan suggesting to GOD, a testing or a tempting? a positive or a negative?Just depend on which word game you play - Or the translation you use---------- D" God creates a man every day... So your God creates ever second of every day R" where you do get the idea, I never said GOD creates every day, just because mankind procreates, making the first birth happen naturally? What's wrong saying GOD does the first birth every time you conceive anyway? Is not GOD involved in all things? OK if God does not create man when man is biological born – it is just procreation – then all you have is an animal – no soul – no spirit because biology cannot create spiritJoh 3:6 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. D: "NO NEW CREATION – GOD IS RESTING FROM CREATION R" are you suggesting the second birth is not a creation of salvation in man, or just the awaking of a spirit already inside us?YES – we are awakened to the truth – when the Spirit of God Touches you – zero doubt remains We have always known this – it is nothing new – we have just forgotten who we are We are spirit having a physical souljhourn to witness God’s Glory and after mortal death our spirit returns to God – for Judgment or PardonR"God can tolerate two masters ruling our soul, D" I agree – yester ra or yester tov – it is an inner struggleR" Yes but only within limits and for a limited time. God actually wants 100% tov from us.SO – what is your point – the two master thing is about man vrs world – not two gods in heavenTherefore we have cherub chata, the idea of angels sinning, or fallen from grace.And a Christian would argue that there is no way any one can fall from graceRom 8:38 … neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, Rom 8:39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing will be able to separate us from the love of God … Joh 10:27 My sheep hear My voice. I know them, and they follow Me. Joh 10:28 I give them eternal life! They will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of My hand. No one or no-thing can fall from God’s grace – to preach otherwise teaches doubtYes other sinning angels can be "a satan", but the chief angel who sinned first is "the satan".Satan is a verb – it is a function – your satan is not a god – he is any angel / spirit in the service of the lord performing that functionD: "The Prodigal Son leaves the father – enters the world – remembers the Father and what it was like at home – and returns to the Father all on his own DO you understand the Prodigal Son was missing his father when He left His father?So Adam sinned as God placed him in the Garden – didn’t have to wait for Eve And when you went on a mission for you church – you were missing you church that is why you left?This is a term called chata, may not always imply moral transgression, but does imply missing.Please define your terms and stop using big generals statement you can make mean anything you need You just keep giving me all these polysemy answers D" We also know that the archon – Beast/Dragon – Devil – and false prophets are all cast into the lake of fire Are they just as sinner? – it does not say this.. The sinning-angels of jude and 2 peter are the bane elohiym of Gen 6 There Sin happened on earth in the form of man and was against man and nature. Small detail you avoid AND – God has them on reserve to be USED again in Rev 9 and rev 20 All part of God plan – spelled out in scripture – the word of God
D" All of it scriptural and none of it requires an evil god named satan with a red suit, horns, tail, and pitch fork with a kingdom called hell and filled with demons that all use to be angels. R" Who says angels have horns, red suit and tail? Angels have wings of the HS and a glory glow about them. In the sinning angels, they would look like man, without wings and no glow of GOD anywhere near them, they are missing the presence of GOD.Heb 13:2 Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers—for in doing so, some have entertained angels without knowing it. Gen 18:2 When he lifted up his eyes to see, suddenly, three men were standing right by him. When he saw them, he ran from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed down to the ground. Gen 19:1 Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening, while Lot was sitting at the gate These are sinning angels by you definition – are you sureD" You deny that God cannot make a self creatureR" Correct GOD cannot make creatures with things missing in the design.MAKE UP YOUR MINDD" You deny that God cannot make a self creature Then talk about God making a chata creatureWord game
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