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Post by Dave on Feb 2, 2021 16:34:28 GMT -5
Heb 9:27 And just as it is appointed for men to die once, and after this judgment, BUT – in a less weighted text Asclepius 21-29 - The Nag Hammadi LibraryThere is a great demon. The great God has appointed him to be overseer or judge over the souls of men. And God has placed him in the middle of the air, between earth and heaven. Now when the soul comes forth from (the) body, it is necessary that it meet this daimon. Immediately, he (the daimon) will surround this one (masc.), and he will examine him in regard to the character that he has developed in his life. And if he finds that he piously performed all of his actions for which he came into the world, this (daimon) will allow him ... (1 line missing) ... turn him [...]. But if he sees [...] in this one [...] he brought his life into evil deeds, he grasps him, as he flees upward, and throws him down, so that he is suspended between heaven and earth, and is punished with a great punishment. Upon death our spirit meets the prosecutor – who opposes all our unworthiness to be there Hmm. I thought GOD judges us, why does He need a prosecutor?POINT #1 – This text from the Nag Hammadi is not weighted – most of it is just repeat and blah blah But I have this one passage highlighted in my copy – why? Precept upon precept – theme upon theme – principle upon principle POINT #2 - Because it the function of satan – the prosecutorZec 3:1 Then he showed me Joshua the kohen gadol standing before the angel of Adonai and the satan, standing at his right hand to accuse him. Heb 9:27 And just as it is appointed for men to die once, and after this judgment, You/me/Joshua/everyman – will cross into heaven Christians teach Saint peter will be at the Pearly Gates letting you in – mythologyYou/me/Joshua/everyman – will stand before (the angel of Adonai) and (the satan, standing at his right) (the satan, standing at his right) – why is he there - to accuse him/ You/me/Joshua/everyman Question – are (You/me/Joshua/everyman) worthy to be in heaven near God Answer – NO – all men are sinners – no one righteous – not one The prosecutor job it to accuse (You/me/Joshua/everyman) of all their sin – my list is long I am sure Why is the length of this naught list matter = Proportional Punishment Zec 3:2 Adonai said to the satan, ‘Adonai rebukes you, the satan. Indeed Adonai, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebukes you. Is not this man a brand plucked out of the fire?’ But a third voice interrupts – God says (Trinity = Christ says) – stand down / stop accusing This (You/me/Joshua/everyman) receives a Divine Pardon This man is plucked for the fire/hell/proportional punishment This (You/me/Joshua/everyman) receives a Divine Pardon How does a Jew see Proportional Punishment?Zec 3:3 Now Joshua was wearing filthy garments and standing before the angel Zec 3:4 who answered and spoke to those standing before him saying, ‘Remove the filthy garments from him.’ Then to Joshua he said, ‘See, I have removed your iniquity from you and will dress you with fine clothing.’ As we sin – our souls become stained – soiled - blemished Divine Pardon = an immediate exchange of clothing – soiled/stained for new An exchange of earthly garments for heavenly garments Without a Divine Pardon – these soiled/stained earthly clothing must be washed clean Some stains wash away easily Some stains require harsher treatment to wash away And some stains never come out Proportional – to everyman his due
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Post by Dave on Feb 3, 2021 10:31:38 GMT -5
So much information – lets put it all together"Just my version as I understand it in my words"Multidimensionality = 10 dimensions of space / heavens / realms of existence This is 100% Jewish and kabbalah = 10 Seferots This is 100% Science = 10 dimension of space This is 100% Enoch = he says he saw heavens 1-7 then 8,9,10 Hebrew has 7 heavens + our 3D = 10 Angelology = 10 orders of angels / 10 levels Completely consistent with 10 levels of things In my diagram – I say the angelic realm = 3-10Some are of higher order near the top = near the ThroneThese angelic beings are angels Hebrew says these angels are of the right hand Some are lower level angelic beings = near manHebrew has always referred to the angelic being of the left hand (the hand of mystery) Paul calls them Powers and Principalities Gnostics call them archon and adds they are made with ‘some’ matter In my diagram – I say the archon realm = 3 and 4The archon are here with us in the 3D and near us in the next invisible level above us 4D Paul’s Powers and Principalities are here with us – and in the invisible layer above us They were here bane elohiym and Nephilim And they are still here Rephiem (13 families) and evil spirits and alien UFOs with us – and in the invisible layer above us Ponder – we are 3D and we are matter Archon are 4D and made with only ‘some’ matter It is this common matter that allows the demi-god Nephilim And at the same time you are absolutely correct when you say – higher order angels cant father children Now let’s add satan the story of the prosecutorFrom God we came – from the angelic realm And we are here in 3D archon land with angels and archon and physicality As we return to God – our first encounter is the realm / level / layer of archon above us And who is there – satan the prosecutorHeb 9:27 And just as it is appointed for men to die once, and after this judgment, Asclepius 21-29 - The Nag Hammadi LibraryThere is a great demon. The great God has appointed him to be overseer or judge over the souls of men. And God has placed him in the middle of the air, between earth and heaven. Now when the soul comes forth from (the) body, it is necessary that it meet this daimon. Immediately, he (the daimon) will surround this one (masc.), and he will examine him in regard to the character that he has developed in his life. And if he finds that he piously performed all of his actions for which he came into the world, this (daimon) will allow him ... (1 line missing) ... turn him [...]. But if he sees [...] in this one [...] he brought his life into evil deeds, he grasps him, as he flees upward, and throws him down, so that he is suspended between heaven and earth, and is punished with a great punishment. Upon death our spirit meets the prosecutor – who opposes all our unworthiness to be there Hmm. I thought GOD judges us, why does He need a prosecutor?Precept upon precept – theme upon theme – principle upon principle POINT #2 - Because it the function of satan – the prosecutorZec 3:1 Then he showed me Joshua the kohen gadol standing before the angel of Adonai and the satan, standing at his right hand to accuse him. Heb 9:27 And just as it is appointed for men to die once, and after this judgment, (You/me/Joshua/everyman) – will cross into heaven (You/me/Joshua/everyman) – will stand before (the angel of Adonai) and (the satan, standing at his right) (the satan, standing at his right) – why is he there - to accuse him/( You/me/Joshua/everyman) Question – are (You/me/Joshua/everyman) worthy to be in heaven near God Answer – NO – all men are sinners – no one righteous – not one The prosecutor job it to accuse (You/me/Joshua/everyman) of all their sin – my list is long I am sure Why is the length of this naught list matter = Proportional Punishment Zec 3:2 Adonai said to the satan, ‘Adonai rebukes you, the satan. Indeed Adonai, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebukes you. Is not this man a brand plucked out of the fire?’ But a third voice interrupts – God says (Trinity = Christ says) – stand down / stop accusing This (You/me/Joshua/everyman) receives a Divine Pardon This man is plucked for the fire/hell/ of proportional punishment If you receive a divine pardon – you continue on to the Bosom of Abraham If you don’t – you remain with the archon who dish out the Proportional PunishmentSlavic Enoch – 2nd Book of Enoch – Secrets of Enoch7:1 AND those men took me and led me up on to the second heaven, and showed me darkness, greater than earthly darkness, and there I saw prisoners hanging, watched, awaiting the great and boundless judgement, and these angels were dark-looking, more than earthly darkness, and incessantly making weeping through all hours. 8:1 AND those men took me thence, and led me up on to the third heaven, and placed me there; 10:1 AND those two men led me upon to the Northern side, and showed me there a very terrible place, and there were all manner of tortures in that place: cruel darkness and unillumined gloom, and there is no light there, but murky fire constantly flameth aloft, and there is a fiery river coming forth, and that whole place is everywhere fire, and everywhere there is frost and ice, thirst and shivering, while the bonds are very cruel, and the angels fearful and merciless, bearing angry weapons, merciless torture, and I said: 2 'Woe, woe, how very terrible is this place.' 3 And those men said to me: This place, O Enoch, is prepared for those who dishonour God, who on earth practise sin against nature, which is child-corruption after the sodomitic fashion, magic-making, enchantments and devilish witchcrafts, and who boast of their wicked deeds, stealing, lies, calumnies, envy, rancour, fornication, murder, and who, accursed, steal the souls of men, who, seeing the poor take away their goods and themselves wax rich, injuring them for other men's goods; who being able to satisfy the empty, made the hungering to die; being able to clothe, stripped the naked; and who knew not their creator, and bowed down to soulless (sc. lifeless) Gods, who cannot see nor hear, vain gods, who also built hewn images and bow down to unclean handiwork, for all these is prepared this place amongst these, for eternal inheritance. To continue the same passage by Asclepius 21-29 - The Nag Hammadi LibraryBut if he sees [...] in this one [...] he brought his life into evil deeds, he grasps him, as he flees upward, and throws him down, so that he is suspended between heaven and earth, and is punished with a great punishment. And he will be deprived of his hope, and will be in great pain. "And that soul has been put neither on the earth nor in heaven, but it has come into the open sea of the air of the world, the place where there is a great fire, and crystal water, and furrows of fire, and a great upheaval. The bodies are tormented (in) various (ways). Sometimes they are cast down into the fire, in order that it may destroy them. Now, I will not say that this is the death of the soul, for it has been delivered from evil, but it is a death sentence. And then just to prove that Asclepius was a Baptist he says"... it is necessary to believe these things and to fear them, in order that we might not encounter them...." Christian Hell - Jewish ProportionalPuniashmentare tormented (in) various (ways) - each man his due Sometimes they are cast into the (Lake of) fire at the final judgment
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Post by Dave on Feb 6, 2021 13:55:04 GMT -5
Where when GOD judges humans, does GOD require a prosecutor? Show me a single text? Zec 3:1 ¶ And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. 2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? THis is NOT about a court room, its a temple in heaven as a simile of the temple on earth, nothing to do with judgement or a court room. Yes, this opponent is opposing the Saviours right to save humans from sin, the father of sin. It's got nothing to do with a court room, its a conflict over the saviour's right to save. I suppose I get your view a little, the opponent resists the other opponent, and says, You have no right to save these people, they are sinners, and belong to me, not you. Ro 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. The word condemnation is a court room word. Notice sin does this. Notice here the courtroom condemnation came upon all mankind, through one SIN of Adam. This courtroom condemnation depends whether you walk in the flesh (inherited SIN) or walk in the Spirit (renewed flesh through Jesus death on the Cross). So this leads to the next question, where does SIN come from? YOUR WORDs The word condemnation is a court room word. Notice here the courtroom condemnation came upon all mankind, through one SIN of Adam. Yes, this opponent is opposing the Saviours right to save humans from (their)sin
But your conclusion = THis is NOT about a court room, its a temple in heaven Jews mis quote this opponent saying it functions as a prosecutor? THis is NOT about a court room, its a temple in heaven as a simile of the temple on earth, nothing to do with judgement or a court room. Sure Robert – every other theologian for the last 5000 years was totally wrong about this verse except you - twist turn mangle and repeat the same ole garbage does not make you factual Then you ask - where does SIN come from? But you have already declared - Notice here the courtroom condemnation came upon all mankind, through one SIN of Adam. And – satan is not a prosecutor? Show me a single text?You list all the facts – and are confuse to what they say Why can’t you see it – because it doesn’t fit nicely in your doctrine and all scripture must be bent or twisted in some way to fit doctrine – all churchians do it – it is taught by the church Church provide you with doctrine As you read scripture you see y6ou own doctrine in the words If you get to a confusing part – you struggle to fit it inside you doctrine If you get to something that doesn’t fit at all – you just say something are not to be understood You deny satan the prosecutor – because you need him to be the satan god of evilIf offends your doctrine for me to say – satan obeys God every time - because you need him to be the satan god of evil If offends you doctrine that in 1 Kings 22 the satan was a volunteer serving the Lord - because you need him to be the satan god of evil And even after you say - Notice here the courtroom condemnation came upon all mankind, through one SIN of Adam. and turn around and ask - - where does SIN come from?You ask this as a segway / lead into / at set up for – to blame that sin on another Adam sinned – but your argument is that it was satan’s fault As if Adam looked up at God and said – It’s not Adam’s fault, it was satan that made him do it THERE IS NO ONE ELSE TO BLAME BUT ADAM/Eve/man/mankind/everymen/any man
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2021 14:22:45 GMT -5
Why don't you speak of Lev 16, and add this to Zechariah 3 account?
No where does the scape goat prosecute sinners for sinning? In fact the High Priest confesses the sin-offering of Israel upon the head of this goat, to die in the desert.
I would say the angel is NOT wanting HIS KINGDOM to end, so is trying to say this person who sins is mine, not yours GOD. This is not the function of a prosecutor.
God is removing some captives from this angel and his kingdom, and the angel protests. This is why GOD rebukes him.
Why does the Ancient of Days set up Jesus as a King with a kingdom on earth, long AFTER creation, (Daniel 4) if Jesus created earth with both humans and archons on it? Obviously to separate and divide the kingdom on earth? Why? because this kingdom on earth run by sinning angels, is NOT a part of GOD's design, and opposes GOD because SIN opposes GOD. The war in heaven, continues as a war on earth.
You don't see this, sadly.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 8, 2021 16:33:42 GMT -5
Why don't you speak of Lev 16, and add this to Zechariah 3 account? No where does the scape goat prosecute sinners for sinning?Please be serious – Jesus Christ is not the prosecutor – satan isjerseygrace.org/sermon/jesus-is-our-scapegoat/Jesus Is Our Scapegoat APRIL 02, 2010 | RANDY SMITH - Leviticus 16:7-10 Clarke's Commentary – any every ommentary And he shall take the two goats - It is allowed on all hands that this ceremony, taken in all its parts, pointed out the Lord Jesus dying for our sins and rising again for our justification;
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2021 3:40:27 GMT -5
Greetings Dave You need to do some reading...I offer you Gnostic and Jewish thoughts on Azazal: To offer the scapegoat without the blood sacrifice goat would have been blasphemous. The only reason the people could rejoice that their sins were removed in the second goat was because they were removed by the blood sacrifice in the first goat. To use theological terms, the first goat propitiated sins (atoned for them) and the second goat expiated sins (removed them). The result was man's sins were removed from his presence but moreover God's presence. jerseygrace.org/sermon/jesus-is-our-scapegoat/I disagree, note my reasons come from both Jewish and Gnostic sources: Read this Jewish perspective www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/azazel Also this www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/eng/tje/a/azazel.html expressly stated by Naḥmanides to Leviticus 16:8, that Azazel belongs to the class of "se'irim," goat-like demons, jinn haunting the desert. The very fact that the two goats were presented before Yhwh before the one was sacrificed and the other sent into the wilderness, was proof that Azazel was not ranked with Yhwh, but regarded simply as t he personification of wickedness in contrast with the righteous government of Yhwh. This is confirmed by the Book of Enoch, which brings Azazel into connection with the Biblical story of the fall of the angels, located, obviously in accordance with ancient folk-lore, on Mount Hermon as a sort of an old Semitic Blocksberg, a gathering-place of demons from of old (Enoch; compare Brandt, "Mandäische Theologie," 1889, p. 38). And this gnosticwarrior.com/azazael.htmlFrom the Gnostics, Jews, Christians to the apocryphal Book of Enoch and later passed over to the Arabians, Azazel is assigned as chief of the wind or air spirits by whom the earth was corrupted. Our oldest sources come from both ancient Jewish and Slavic legends which confirm that he is an evil spirit and one of two scapegoats bearing the sins of their people depicted in the ancient rite of Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) in which one goat was designated by “lots for the Lord,” the “other for Azazel” (Leviticus 16:8). In my opinion, The Apocalypse of Abraham is very Gnostic to its core showing the ancient teachings showing Azazel is called the Eternal Ruler, the Mighty One ie: Devil, who has been given the dwelling on earth. Wow nice read but I am really lost, what is the connection between Yadaboath and Azazel? Moe (the author above) is an avid Gnostic expert. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 10, 2021 0:14:02 GMT -5
Why don't you speak of Lev 16, and add this to Zechariah 3 account? No where does the scape goat prosecute sinners for sinning?Please be serious – Jesus Christ is not the prosecutor – satan is It saddens me that your understanding of basic Christian Principles is so skewed toward your satan god that you would argue that your satan is the scapegoat that takes away man’s sinsIn my opinion, The Apocalypse of Abraham is very Gnostic to its core showing the ancient teachings showing Azazel is called the Eternal Ruler, the Mighty One ie: Devil, who has been given the dwelling on earth. Wow nice read but I am really lost, what is the connection between Yadaboath and Azazel? Moe (the author above) is an avid Gnostic expert.1- Moe – Gnostic Expert – what kind a Gnostic Christian 2- The Apocalypse of Abraham - has been preserved in Old Slavonic literature. Its title does not fully explain its contents, for about one-third of it might more appropriately be called "The Legend of Abraham," 3- This is Not Nag Hammadi – This is not weighted – I have never read and – it is not by an agl author4- Azazel is called the Eternal Ruler, the Mighty One ie: Devil, who has been given the dwelling on earth.Absolutely agreeI am really lost, what is the connection between Yadaboath and Azazel?Really – after all this time Yadaboath – is a name used in some text as an identifier for the Beast / Dragon – the First Archon Azazel is an offspring of the First Archon = bane elohiym archon and was the leader of the 200 in Gen 6 This is confirmed by the Book of Enoch, which brings Azazel into connection with the Biblical story of the fall of the angels,(Catholic Bias) located, obviously in accordance with ancient folk-lore,(Catholic bias) on Mount Hermon as a sort of an old Semitic Blocksberg, a gathering-place of demons from of old (Enoch; compare Brandt, "Mandäische Theologie," 1889, p. 38).
You need to do some reading...I offer you Gnostic and Jewish thoughts on Azazal: Read this Jewish perspective www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/azazel The Rabbis, interpreting "Azazel" as "Azaz" (rugged), and "el" (strong), refer it to the rugged and rough mountain cliff from which the goat was cast down (Yoma 67b; Sifra, Aḥare, ii. 2; Targ. Yer. Lev. xiv. 10, and most medieval commentators).Most modern scholars, after having for some time indorsed the old view, have accepted the opinion mysteriously hinted at by Ibn Ezra and expressly stated by Naḥmanides to Lev. xvi. 8, that Azazel belongs to the class of "se'irim," goat-like demons, jinn haunting the desert, to which the Israelites were wont to offer sacrifice (Lev. xvii. 7 [A. V. "devils"]; Also this www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/eng/tje/a/azazel.html expressly stated by Naḥmanides to Leviticus 16:8, that Azazel belongs to the class of "se'irim," goat-like demons, jinn haunting the desert. Let's see - there is a word for all those creatures - OH YA - ARCHON------------ OK Robert – LET’s GET SERIOUSI challenged you to pick up your game – and you offer Azazel (the bane elohiyn archon who led the 200 of Gen 6– the General of the archon on earth (DID SOME ONE SAY DEVIL?)) as the scapegoat -------------- Lev 16:8 Aaron will then cast lots for the two goats—one lot for Adonai, and the other lot for the scapegoat. Lev 16:9 Aaron is to present the goat on which the lot for Adonai fell and make it a sin offering. Lev 16:10 But the goat upon which the lot for the scapegoat fell is to be presented alive before Adonai, to make atonement upon it, by sending it away as the scapegoat into the wilderness. biblehub.comScape-Goat, The: Part of the Sin Offering on the Day of Atonement - Lev 16:5,7 Scape-Goat, The: The high priest transferred the sins of Israel to, by - Lev 16:21 Scape-Goat, The: Sent into the wilderness by the hands of a fit person - Lev 16:21,22 Scape-Goat, The: Typical of Christ - Isa 53:6,11,12 Isa 53:11 As a result of the anguish of His soul He will see it and be satisfied by His knowledge. The Righteous One, My Servant will make many righteous and He will bear their iniquities. Isa 53:12 Therefore I will give Him a portion with the great, and He will divide the spoil with the mighty—because He poured out His soul to death, and was counted with transgressors. For He bore the sin of many, and interceded for the transgressors. Joh 1:29 The next day, John sees Yeshua coming to him and says, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! You need to do some reading...I offer you Gnostic and Jewish thoughtsPOINT – you offer commentary by ahl Jews – before the prophesy of Isaiah 53 became clear POINT – You offer commentary of a Gnostic that includes a Catholic bias You need to do some reading... What would a Messianic Jew sayA Jewish thinker that understands the prophesy of Isaiah 53, Zec 3, Lev 16, and your Ezk 28 jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/issues-v21-n01/the-ultimate-scapegoat/Of the myriad of theories about Azazel, two are the most common. (1) The first says that Azazel is a combination of the Hebrew word for goat (az) and the Hebrew word for to carry or to take away (azel). This is the basis for the translation of the word Azazel as scapegoat—literally, the goat who would carry away the sin of Israel, the “tote-goat.” When the text says that the goat would be “for Azazel,” the meaning is better rendered “as Azazel” or “as the scapegoat.” H5799 – עֲזָאזֵל - ‛ăzâ'zêl - From H5795 and H235; goat of departure; the scapegoat: - scapegoat. H5795 – עֵז - ‛êz – aze - a she goat H235 – אָזַל - 'âzal - A primitive root; to go away,(2) The second theory is that Azazel is a proper name of an individual, perhaps a demonic being who lives in the wilderness. I will ask you now – which theology are you endorsingThe ANSWER is clear – both answers are correctThe scapegoat is just a scape goat – and in this case – we are talking about ChristScape-Goat, The: Sent into the wilderness by the hands of a fit person - Lev 16:21,22 From God he came – and souljourned here as Jesus ChristScape-Goat, The: The high priest transferred the sins of Israel to, by - Lev 16:21 John 3:16 – the Cross and Resurrection and the promise of salvation (Divine Pardon)Scape-Goat, The: Typical of Christ - Isa 53:6,11,12 AND - Azazel is a proper name of an individualI do not stumble over words – I live in a Hispanic Community – there are many Jesus all around me I am not confused which is the one that came as a man – witnessed – died as the scapegoat offering Why don't you speak of Lev 16, and add this to Zechariah 3 account? No where does the scape goat prosecute sinners for sinning? Answer - Zec 3 and the prosecutor (satan) has nothing to do with Lev 16 Lev 16 - is a bout “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! Or - if you want to get all confused - Lev 16 is about the leader of the Gen 6 bane elohiym archon
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2021 13:18:12 GMT -5
You can hang unto your view if you want to.
I tried to show you texts and people who see Azazal as the goat who carries sins, and is Both a Name, you agree, of a Being responsible for causing those sins, not atoning those sins.
The scape goat cannot be Jesus.
You're confused, you say
D" I am not confused which is the one that came as a man – witnessed – died as the scapegoat offering
Jesus never died as a scapegoat offering.
Jesus is the bullock and lamb offering for sins confessed unto HIM as their sin-offering.
Le 16:9 And Aaron <'Aharown> shall bring <qarab> the goat <sa`iyr> upon which the LORD'S <Y@hovah> lot <gowral> fell <`alah>, and offer <`asah> him for a sin offering <chatta'ah>.
Strange, the KJV translates this verse correctly. Jesus the YHWH is a sin-offering (chattaah).
The scape goat is not a chataah.
Le 16:20 ¶ And when he hath made an end <kalah> of reconciling <kaphar>
At the end of kaphar, only than is the scape goat mentioned again.
Le 16:21 And Aaron <'Aharown> shall lay <camak> both <sh@nayim> his hands <yad> upon the head <ro'sh> of the live <chay> goat <sa`iyr>, and confess <yadah> over him all the iniquities <`avon> of the children <ben> of Israel <Yisra'el>, and all their transgressions <pesha`> in all their sins <chatta'ah>,
So what's placed on the scapegoat? Avon is, meaning guilt. Sadly the KJV never translates avon as guilt, but this unknown English term iniquities.
Isa 53:11 for he shall bear <cabal> their iniquities <`avon>.
Here Jesus when died upon the Cross, does indeed bare the guilt included by the sin-offering, the guilt confessed by sins such people confessing did.
The question now is does Jesus bare the guilt of the sin-offerings for eternity? or is the guilt transferred unto another Being called the scapegoat?
The earthly model of the temple system had this process done yearly.
But the heavenly system of salvation, with a high priest, the process of atonement is only done once. Jesus died once. After Azazal Israel could live another year in bliss.
So at the the end of all times, the salvation process gets a cleansing in the heavenly temple.
When does this occur?
Re 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
About here, when the high priest judges the whore on the earth, to end all things.
Re 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come,
Lev 16 was a simile of marriage, renewal of vows, but in heaven, this marriage vow is done only once. At the end of the age, all things are completed.
Re 19:11 ¶ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
This word "War", shows the "War in heaven" (same word) started long ago, still continues as the "War on earth", in fact the high priest does both a judging and a waring, in his temple.
Re 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Yashua means Saviour, salvation is the completed task of saving us, these are not names of Jesus, but descriptions of His saving us. Nobody knows the Name of YHWH, He who exists.
Re 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
These armies must be angels, the same beings who fought over the dragon angel and his fallen angels, a war in heaven, same theme repeated here.
Re 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Notice the war begins again on earth, but the AZAZAL BEING is cast alive, with the beast, the false prophet and all who died under the mark of the beast.
The scapegoat is also cast alive, bearing the guilt of sin-offering.
How long is the scarpegoat cast alive, to ponder the guilt He caused unto the righteous?
Re 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
A 1000 years, while the marriage supper continues in heaven, completing the function of the temple.
Re 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Thrones plural, they (plural) sat on them, and you think elohiym is one Being? Why plural than here? Notice the judging of the people who didn't make it are investigated by the righteous.
After the temple is ended, the city comes down to earth, and notice
Re 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Azazal is loosed again, with his kingdom of sinning humans, ready to battle, war the city on earth.
I use the term loosely, you say Azazal is a general of Yaboath, no matter, archons, doesn't matter, the point is these bad guys who made the righteous sin, are bearing that guilt. This does not make the saints have someone to blame for their sinning, no. (another topic).
Re 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Again another judgement, now to let the wicked see their fate. And finally the scapegoat carrying the guilt of sins, especially the FIRST SIN every done in the entire universe, it is allowed to become non-existent.
The SIN problem, and the angel who wrought SIN in, causing GOD to make SIN observable, is finally ended.
I suppose you think GOD makes a flawed earth for the saints? No natural decay, no entropy, no friction, no electrical resistance, no snow, no rain, no rainbows ever again, all these things are gone forever. No umbra shadows. No tears, no memories of RA, all wiped away. Only one memorial remains, the scars on the hands of Yashua.
Ra and Sin shall never rise up a second time. Na 1:9. It's gone forever. The only ra evidence is the scars on the Great Uncaused Cause.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 10, 2021 17:24:08 GMT -5
I tried to show you texts and people who see Azazal as the goat who carries sins, and is Both a Name, you agree, of a Being responsible for causing those sins, not atoning those sins.WORD GAME – man do you draw the wrong conclusion from your reference material This does not say the name of the scapegoat is Azazal – this is your invention – your assumption – and now you can argue Jesus means savior – is that Jesus Gonzales / Jesus Montoya / or Jesus Ortega Azazal means the goat that carries away – and you insist it means a demon by the same name Grow up – pay attention – be serious The scape goat cannot be Jesus. jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/issues-v21-n01/the-ultimate-scapegoat/The Ultimate Scapegoat He provided a once-and-for-all scapegoat who suffered and died a horrific death on a wooden cross. The prophet Isaiah spoke of him, declaring, “All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all” (Isaiah 53:6).
He has already taken the blame for all of our wrongdoing. But we must acknowledge him as God’s scapegoat, the atonement for our sins.The question now is does Jesus bare the guilt of the sin-offerings for eternity? or is the guilt transferred unto another Being called the scapegoat?Are you suggesting that Jesus did not die for our sins?
It must be hard to love God with all your heart, mind, and soul When you so busy criticizing Him and second guessing His WillNotice the war begins again on earth,YES! – Finally a breakthrough – Gen 3:15but the AZAZAL BEING is cast alive, with the beast, the false prophet and all who died under the mark of the beast.Rev 20:10 And the devil (Azazal – the leader of ther 200 bane elohiym archon of Gen 6) who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are too, and they shall be tortured day and night forever and ever. I can live with that The Devil is not the Beast/Dragon/First Archon himself The Devil is not the lowest form of archon / demon either The Devil is a General (my word) at the top of hierarchy
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 4:39:06 GMT -5
I am glad you can live with that "opinion of mine, is similar to yours"
As for the details, we can agree to disagree.
I hope that our views do not affect our salvation in Jesus. Thank you for the discussion.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 11, 2021 9:19:23 GMT -5
I am glad you can live with that "opinion of mine, is similar to yours" Is Azazal the devil? – could be because the devil is not the beast or the satan in Rev 20 or the false prophets. Azazal was the leader of the 200 bane elohiym of Gen 6
As for the details, we can agree to disagree. I hope that our views do not affect our salvation in Jesus.
Lets check those details- Your doctrine 1-there are 3 gods – there must be so love can exist – you say it is impossible for God to express love by himself 2-You claim – God made creation all tov 3-But then your satan recreated his own nature and divided God’s kingdom 4-As a result – there is a two god system – a god of tov and a god of ra – locked in an eternal controversy. Both sides of God’s divided kingdom opposes the other side – eternal war in heaven You claim that God only made the world tov – but your evil god altered all of into ra 5–in fact you said that if you look through a microscope or a telescope all you can see is the effect of sin upon the world – all you can see is your satan 6-and all those scriptures about Israel in the end-of-days is a lie Ellen White says the focus is Rome not Israel – yet you claim not to be Rome-centric 7-and Ellen White has given you the authority to deny any scripture that does support her doctrine. When in truth - God is responsible directly and indirectly for harm and death – but it is OK to deny those verses because it doesn’t fit SDA doctrine 8-all those scriptures about spirt and the soul ARE NOT REAL – they are just metaphor for your biological brain 9-and now your satan – the devil – is the scapegoat that carries away the sins of the world
Yet – you claim that you do not diminish God or elevate your satan
The doctrine of Christianity
1- The is only One True God that expresses Himself to man as a Trinity 2- God made everything everywhere – the tov and the ra in a balance we call nature 3-God’s creation is NOT divided – he made one part invisible and one part visible – Goad made one part spiritual and one part corporeal – and those two parts = creation Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 4- there is Only ONE TRUE CREATOR – things of matter are sequestered to the visible world (corporeal) – and things ethereal to the invisible spiritual realm God , angels, and other ethereal beings do not call the physical world home Archon, man, cows, and termites are made of matter and do not live in the spiritual heavens 5- everywhere I look all I can see is the hand of God Psa 19:1 Rom 1:19-20 6- The end-of-days is about the Promised Land – Rome is nobody and nothing 7- I refuse to deny any scripture – God does it all – I don’t have to invent metaphors or twist any scripture – God is above the laws given to man – and God dose cause a lot of harm and death facilitating His Will on earth – sure God is Love – and He is also the holder of Righteous Judgment 8- It is all about the spirit – flesh and bone is not getting into heaven 9 and it is Jesus Christ (God incarnate) that died upon the cross as the scapegoat for man Removing the stain of disobedience (sin) by a Divine Pardon
Agree - I hope that the details, do not affect your salvation in Jesus. It must be hard to love God with all your heart, mind, and soul When you are so busy criticizing Him and second guessing His Will
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2021 19:54:48 GMT -5
D" 4-As a result – there is a two god system – a god of tov and a god of ra – locked in an eternal controversy.
R:" This is far better than your one god system who is both ra and tov, locked in an eternal design of allowing both tov and ra, just to express his ultimate will.
My GOD is only tov, as you say.
Your god is both tov and ra, designs and lives with both tov and ra, allows the natural ra to cause bad things on earth.
Little Jimmy died of cancer, a slow agonizing death of pain, for a 2 yr old boy..Why asked the parents?
Dave would say, something good will come from this pain, as GOD is the author of the good and bad, He feels for your loss, but hopes for your gains. There is nobody to blame here, only give God the glory for the goodness and the painful sadness of living.
Robert would say, sadly when Adam sinned, the Devil rules our world, and GOD has to allow times for Satan to run things as Satan sees fit. But GOD is always in full control of the world despite the enemy, and Jesus fought back for our world to rule over it, and has won the war, but sometimes Satan wins daily battles in the war. We have to trust GOD during the battles on our living, and hope God brings the good out of the bad, for GOD cries when we cry, over this terrible agony of loss.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 12, 2021 22:33:06 GMT -5
D" 4-As a result – you have a two god system – a god of tov and a god of ra – locked in an eternal controversy.R:" This is far better than your one god system who is both ra and tov, locked in an eternal design of allowing both tov and ra, just to express his ultimate will.AND we are right back where we started fromDear Robert I have said much here because it is obvious that that my words mean little. I have no opinion on the gnosic material presented here. However, you have said something that must be addressed. Dave writes: " See – you have two Kings and two godsYes I have two Kings and two gods opposing each other. What's wrong with that? Everything is wrong with that. The Jews have only One God All the Christians I have ever worshiped with have One God Every messianic Jew I have ever communicated with has One God Gnostics have only One God
I have only One God - therefore we do not believe in the same GodI will stick with the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2021 3:25:45 GMT -5
I too have one GOD, the word elohiym means 'family power'. I also have a 'strong authority' who causes the sin problem. You don't have a cause for the sin problem. All you have is your one GOD, who is the author of the good and the bad.
How do I know elohiym means 'family power' ?
Ex 7:1 ¶ And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god (elohiym) to Pharaoh:
SO elohiym cannot mean god.
And, Ex 7:1 ¶ ...and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
Aaron was a brother of Moses, and the sister Miraim become a prophetess too. What's all this, a family power.
Judges are family powers too.
God is a family power.
I will stick with the God of Abraham, just as Abram has a yaccid son, the FATHER MOST HIGH has a yaccid son, Yashuah.
Eachad and Yaccid are two Hebrew words both mean "one" but have different meanings for "one"
Echad is "compound one" and Yaccid is "solitary one".
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 13, 2021 8:16:58 GMT -5
Ex 7:1 ¶ And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god (elohiym) to Pharaoh: SO elohiym cannot mean god.
Months ago you argued that elohiym meant strong authority And there had to be a family of 3 independent gods so lover can exist between them You God cannot love by Himself – there must be at least two gods so they can love each other – only then can your three gods love creation
I too have one GOD, the word elohiym means 'family power'. I also have a 'strong authority' who causes the sin problem.
So you have 4 strong authorities that are elohiym and created the world
I will stick with the God of Abraham, just as Abram has a yaccid son, the FATHER MOST HIGH has a yaccid son, Yashuah. So you have a male father - a male son –and a male satan authority No Spirit – but you deny the spirit
And you tell people you are a Christian?
I have been attending Christian churches for 40 years + I want to thank you – I have never been exposed to the SDA before There is a SDA church in Trinidad – we pass by it shopping – there is never more than two or three cars in its parking lot – they have no children program (why I have not been inside personally)
Now I understand why – and why I will never attend an SDA anything – what a bunch of satan serving anti-Christian crap
All you have is your one GOD, who is the author of the good and the bad.
YES I DO - one GOD, who is the author of the good and the bad. Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
You are the one teaching the ahl is error (some verse MUST be over looked or explained away) then preach the ahl is perfect I do not dismiss any scripture – and my cosmology is consistent
You don't have a cause for the sin problem. Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Sin entered the world through EVE
You are the one teaching the ahl is error (some verse MUST be over looked or explained away) then preach the ahl is perfect I do not dismiss any scripture – and my cosmology is consistent
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