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Post by Dave on Dec 16, 2020 12:31:39 GMT -5
Sounds like satan worship to me anything that misses = chata The Mormon sayJehovah was once an ordinary man – that ascended to godhood Then Jehovah had twin sons – Jesus and satan And the angel Mormo gave Joseph Smith the “New Testament of Jesus Christ” The Jehovah Witness sayJesus was just a man – that the HS entered at the Baptism They also say – there is no such thing as spirits – or heaven God made earth for man – we are in paradise – this is heaven I met Pentecostals that told me if I never spoke in tongues in church – I’m not getting it I grew up in Amish country They have no zippers – wear no makeup – they all wear hats and bonnets They refuse electricity and practice shunning And they still use horses for farming and transport My wife grew up Catholic – she prayed only to the Pope until she was 25 All of this Roman Catholic – Roman Christendom – Protestantism Is all – variations on the very same theologyJesus said – you need to be born of spirit and made it completely different than flesh Jesus said – If you have seen me – you have seen the Father = Jesus is God incarnate Jesus came to witness the Torah – and be the suffering MessiahThe death of Jesus means nothing by itself – all prophets dieJesus was not a human sacrifice – what a sick theology Jesus Christ ROSE FROM THE GRAVE – in the resurrection is salvation Theology as you present itGod made everything perfect for only 6 days – at the end of Day 6 it was tov And you say – it could have only been tov only – because your God can only do Good Then soon after – your SINNING ANGEL – took 1/3rd of heaven and was given all of creationThen God made Adam and Eve – perfect in all their ways But your SINNING ANGEL talked to Eve – and that was a sin Eve listened to the serpent – but that is not a sin Then Eve ate the fruit and She sinned only Then she deceived Adam into sinning Then after Adam sinned – all creation changed – the lions ate – the sharks ate – and weeds grew And also false fossil evidence was created and false geological features – all crafted by satan to deceive man – because satan opposes God And Today – the only thing we can see in our telescopes and microscopic is the evidence sinning angels and your satan Then you say – man has no spirit – man is just an animal with memories – and only goes to the grave to await resurrection A nd your reasoning for sin – is NOT YOUR OWN CHOICES – then the faults lies with Adam and Adam’s fault lies with satan the oppose of GodJudaism says – God created everything – all of it – nothing was created that wasn’t created by God – God is the only creator – Praise God God created the tov and the ra – He does all these things for He is Jehovah There is no second creation - - everything is exactly as God plan’s Judaism says – God is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient Meaning – God knew exactly what choices Adan and Eve would make God test man – God tested Adam and Eve with the Serpent You say it was sin for the serpent to do God’s WillJust as God tested Job You say is was as sin for satan to do God’s WillGod chose Israel for His own people – and the calling of a Jew is to Personal Relationship Walk with God – talk with God – listen to God and praise God in all things God came as a man – God incarnate – Jesus the man /Christ the spirit = Jesus Christ The Jews were prophesied to reject the Messiah – they are fulfilling God’s Will – stop blaming them for being the hand of God God test man God sent satan to test Jesus Christ in the wilderness PROVING to all – that Jesus Christ was more than just the man Jesus – He was the Christ You say this is proof satan hates GodI say – praise God for the proof of ChristJesus the man died on the cross – YES! And his corps was buried like all animals Christ – the spirit – commended His Spirit to God Christ did not go the grave – story has it He preached in hell And Christ returned in His body – for all to see – this is the miracle of Christ A proof for all mankind to see – opening the door to the gentiles RESURRECTIONWhat does this do for us – PROOF that there is an afterlife A reality where we could see – Christ, Moses, and Elijah all standing together in conversation / communion Man is now supposed to evaluate these proofs Question - If Jesus Christ was God and there is a real afterlife – what should I do about it now Answer – 1- BELIEVE - repent and seek the Kingdom of God 2- realize that this physical body from this 3D reality is not who we are – we are heavenly beings (not of 3D physical bodies) but of something more – something intra-dimensional Feel Good Christianity tells us that this all going to be nice and good Rom 8:28 Gnostics says – we are all Adam and Eve – we are all “man” we are all tested by God – and all men are sinners we are all Job – the more pious we become – the more difficult the testing Gnosticism says – once converted we will come to hate our bodies – be ashamed of our bodies Paul says this perfectly – Rom 7 Most Christianity calls us to be the First Fruits – to die in Christ – to be with Christ in heaven today / now – serving our lord You are the first ‘Christian’ I have met that totally rejects this Gnosticism simplifies the discussion by speaking about 3 types of Christians Pretenders – Believers – and those who have been Born Again – Born Again touched by the spirit – granted power by the spirit in some way That gift could be – speaking in tongues – or healing the sick – if it serves the Lord That gift might be inspiration or revelation – Newton, Plank, Einstein, Musk, Trump That gift might be an interest – medicine – evangelism – service I have worked in medicine for 28 years – there are two different types of staff One group –will stand back from the sick – and treat the patient like a piece of meat The other – will hold the sick and comfort them – and it is a gift Do you have to be touched by God to be a Prophet to be saved – no Are you used by God – in His own way – to facilitate God’s Will – absolutely Gnosticism calls us to be more than just a Christian – we are to be as Christ What does this mean – change into some supernatural being – no What did Christ do for man – He came – He witnessed – He died for His fellow man - and He returned to God We came form God We are here to witness – God’s Glory – just as Jesus Christ did – this is our mission We will return to God – and be judged on how well we did our mission Love one another as He loved us – die for our fellow man – and seek the Kingdom Satan is a function not a personAnyone can serve as the satan as they test man for GodSatan is such a small player in God’s creation – a servant of the Lord You yield ½ of the theology to satan and the Controversy Elevating satan to god hood and even the second creator with the power to alter all creationYou say you refuse to discuss any other scripture - other than the satan related topic SDA doctrins do not look Christ centric or God centric - but totally dependent upon satan being an evil god like angel - to head up the other half of your Controversy
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2020 4:37:10 GMT -5
I am sorry you see the Great Controversy in this way Dave. I would agree that the term "satan" is a function, but it also applies to a sinning heavenly Being, that opposes GOD. Any creature who sins by definition, also opposes God.
I guess the Ezekiel metaphor that says cherub chata, is something that makes us different. It is torah, inspired we assume, but you happily ignore this verse, and others that support it.
Shalom my friend, Happy Xmas
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2020 2:13:50 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
"You cannot see that the words were written about a man – a King"
The first 10 verses speak to the "prince of Tyre"
Verses 10 to 19 speak to the "king of Tyre"....
clearly there is a difference in the poetry settings of these prophecies..
Jeff Benner H5057 "noble" One who tells others what to do.
Jeff Benner H4427 reign and H4428 reigner.
A reigner is more broader, more powerful than a noble, or prince.
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I can see they are written about man, man is sinning making SELF a big deal, bigger than GOD.
SO GOD uses this picture to illustrate some other creature also making SELF a big deal, bigger than GOD. Such a creature is called "cherub", was in the Garden of Eden.
Adam not King Tyre was in the Garden of Eden, so why is this cherub mentioned? Was a cherub in the Garden of Eden.
This cherub was perfect in the creation of GOD. Adam was perfect too in the creation of GOD.
But this cherub began to sin "chata".
Did Adam began to sin? Let's have a look?
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Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Mankind was not created like this, nor given such a privileged position of power.
So this verse is not about man, at all, but about a cherub created with functional perfection.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
This verse suggests to me the cherub gradually began to sin, not sinned immediately as Adam and Eve did. So again this verse is different in sinning to how Adam and Eve sinned.
Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned:
Again gradual sinning, by multitude of merchandise, a simile to King Tyre doing business, but remember Prince Tyre and King Tyre refer to differences in their powers.
Da 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Why is Jesus predicted coming as a "prince" the same word for Prince Tyre?
Da 11:30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy
What does this prophecy have to do with Jesus, the prince? I don't know, thought I would ask you.
But you do not understand that reigners reign over us. You say archons only test humans. I beg to differ, the devil actually asked Jesus to worship him, sounds like more than a testing to me?
In Moses torah we have this account of the serpent:
Nu 21:6 And the LORD <Y@hovah> sent <shalach> fiery <saraph> serpents <nachash> among the people <`am>, and they bit <nashak> the people <`am>; and much <rab> people <`am> of Israel <Yisra'el> died <muwth>.
What was this nachash?
Nu 21:8 And the LORD <Y@hovah> said <'amar> unto Moses <Mosheh>, Make <`asah> thee a fiery serpent <saraph>,
9 And Moses <Mosheh> made <`asah> a serpent <nachash>
The Moses torah says the seraph was to be placed on the pole, but Moses made a nachash instead. The saraph must something more than narchash, which is a simile of saraph.
And what is saraph?
De 8:15 Who led thee through that great and terrible wilderness, wherein were fiery serpents, and scorpions, and drought, where there was no water; who brought thee forth water out of the rock of flint; 16 Who fed thee in the wilderness with manna, which thy fathers knew not, that he might humble thee, and that he might prove thee, to do thee good at thy latter end; 17 And thou say in thine heart, My power and the might of mine hand hath gotten me this wealth. 18 But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.
Here both seraph narchash are mentioned, but GOD wants Israel to know GOD looks after us and feeds us, no other GOD but Him.
At the end of the Moses torah, the Saraph Nachash is NOT identified, but clearly exists.
Does this saraph nachash oppose GOD?
In the latter torah, especially Isaiah are the remaining clues of saraph.
Isa 6:6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: 7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged. 8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me. 9 ¶ And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
The word saraph means burning, and these creatures fly, doing powers in the Name of YHWH.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? 18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. 19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. 20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned. 21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities. 22 For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD. 23 I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts. 24 ¶ The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand: 25 That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders. 26 This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations. 27 For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back? 28 In the year that king Ahaz died was this burden. 29 Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.
This passage suggests to me, that a saraph creature makes fruit, that is the origin of sinning.
Now in this passage, does YHWH oppose this saraph fruit creature?
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, Isa 14:22 For I will rise up against them, for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.
Clearly a universal reigner is behind the sinning traits of man, this being the saraph, the burning angel who sins.
Now of course the NT has more to speak on this saraph, but I stick to Moses torah and Isaiah.
Clearly even Jews admit the saraphims are reference to angels. I would not say that directly, but it's OK to see "burning" in this way, but Jesus is a "burning function" too.
Both Jesus and this burning serpent were placed upon the pole, and the look of faith healed. Clearly one opposes the other. The serpent burning kills, but the burning saviours heals.
Clearly this is my biggest case for both burning beings opposing each other.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 19, 2020 15:07:10 GMT -5
Where to begin? – and this will be a long answer I understand your logic – I was once a churchian However, we begin at different places – the foundation of our views – the base – the root – of our opinions have different origins
Before I can make a point of the middle – or the end We must address the beginning of our views
First Point – the Unique Independent Existence of Man
1- You do not embrace the multidimensionality of our realty Regardless if it is 100% Jewish Kabbalah – science suggest a 10 dimensional multiverse There is plenty of room for Thrones, Domains, Kingdoms, Hades, Prisons, Tartarus/Gahanna, and Paradise
There is also plenty of room for multiple beings – entities – of all sorts – some we may not even be aware of
2- Scripture tells me that God is everywhere – in everything – there is nothing without God So as I look at creation I see the Hand of God As I look at history - I only see the hand of God And as I witness current events - - I see and am amazed at the hand of God
Things only happened one way – science and theology point to the one on only creator Does it surprise me that the conclusion of 21st century science = intelligent design – NO Does it surprise me that 21st century physics bares witness to the Jewish Kabbalah and the 10 dimensions of reality - NO
All things – point to the one and only Creator
Enoch – was a full part of the Temple Library Scrolls Enoch - was found whole in the library of the Dead Sea – including the Book of Creation and The Book of Giants Enoch – is the second most quoted Book in the agl And Enoch is all about the ‘bane elohiym’ of Gen 6
3 – angels are not 3D physical beings – they are made of a different substance – not dust of the earth And because angels are not 3D physical mortal – they will never have a 3D physical mortal death They are immortal – they are (not)mortal – they are (negative) mortal
1Pe 1:10 - 12 …….. Even angels long to catch a glimpse of these things. We are in full view of the heavens Luke 16 – 3 dimensions of heaven – man – Lazareth and the rich man were all in different heavens / localities / dimensions – in full view of one another
There are 27 verses about angels coming down from some where Angels appear out of thin air – Luk 22:43 Now an angel from heaven appeared to Him and strengthened Him. Angels are inter-dimensional beings Joh 1:51 And He said, “Amen, amen I tell you, you will see heaven opened and the angels of God going up and coming down on the Son of Man!”
4 - You believe that man is an animal with memories upon mortal death – the HS those memories are recorded in heaven by the HS Then upon the First Resurrection – those mortal animal bodies are raise from the grave and their memories restored Then we stand judgment of the conduct of the animal
BOOM – we so disagree Your view is so stuck in 3D reality – so physical – so limited to this world only
Question - what is the image of God Gen 1:27 God created humankind in His image, in the image of God He created him, male and female He created them.
Is this just male/female – as like all other animals – or angels (Zech 5:9) Just to be male or female – doesn’t make man special
100% Jewish – what is special about man – 2 things 1 – we are the only creature that can choose Chose what? – Answer – choose God
Each man is the Prodigal Son Each man leaves his home in heaven with their father Each man experiences the world The most cherished Prodigal Son is the one that returns to God
2 – and from God we came – and to God we will return God knew us before the womb – (Jer 1:5)
Psa 139:14 I praise You, for I am awesomely, wonderfully made! Wonderful are Your works—and my soul knows that very well. Psa 139:15 My frame was not hidden from You when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth. Psa 139:16 Your eyes saw me when I was unformed, and in Your book were written the days that were formed—when not one of them had come to be.
Judaism teaches – that we are the image of Christ
God – came to earth as a man – and returned to heaven We leave the father – come to earth as a man – and we will return to the father (one way or another) Our body is 100% animal / 100% mortal and will die a mortal death Our soul is not animal / not mortal and is immortal and will continue on just as Christ did upon his cross
Christianity teaches that we are in the image of Christ From God we came – souljourn here – and we will return to God (one way or another) And while we are here We are the only creature that can choose
Man was right there as saw it all
Second Point - 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so
Why is this about man and not angels
Answer – who is the most cherished being at God’s side – angels or man
Heb 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are My Son. Today I have become Your Father”? And again, “I will be to Him a Father, and He will be to Me a Son”? Heb 1:6 And again, when He brings the firstborn into the world, He says, “Let all the angels of God worship Him.”
1Co 6:2 Don’t you know that the kedoshim will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to judge trivial matters? 1Co 6:3 Don’t you know that we will judge angels?
Man is the most beloved in heaven over angels Why – because we are the prodigal Son – we can choose God – or not – and I have set they so YES – God made man with the ability to choose – we are the only creature that can choose Angels were made for specific functions and duties Just as cows were – and ants – and bacteria – or birds – or frogs – each his assigned duties within creation – man is the only creature that can choose
This is where most Christians will bring up Psa 8:5 (TLV) what is man, that You are mindful of him? And the son of man, that You care for him? Psa 8:6 Yet You made him a little lower than the angels, and crowned him with glory and majesty!
Psa 8:5 (KJV) For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
(OJB) For Thou hast made him a little lower than elohim [or Elohim, Gn 1:27], and hast crowned him with kavod and hadar.
H2637 H4592 + ,H4480 H430 God made him – a little more lacking; by implication to failing, than the 'ĕlôhı̂ym (OJB_ references Gen 1:27 = GOD – not angels
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so And why does man covereth – Adam and Eve will tell you Man (mankind) Adam – sinned – chose to disobey resulting in Gen 3:15
THIRD POINT – there are two separate groups of angelic beings
Heb 1:7 And regarding the angels He says, “He makes His angels winds, and His servants a flame of fire.”
Angels of wind and servants of fire
Because you are a Feel Good Christian – you think both groups are happy
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
OK – you agree – but one group is sinning angels
Jud 1:6 And the angels—who did not keep their own position of authority but deserted their proper place—He has kept in everlasting shackles under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great Day.
You say – see they left their first estate Agree – they were cast into creation in Gen 1:2
You say - see they will be judged – therefore they are sinning angels All angels will be judged and man will be that judge – the good and the bad
The KJV translates Strong's H7321 in the following manner: shout (23x), noise (7x), ..alarm (4x), cry (4x), triumph (3x), smart (1x), miscellaneous (4x).
Sorry Robert = two separate groups – different – one full of praise and one who cries alarm
SO GOD uses this picture to illustrate some other creature also making SELF a big deal, bigger than GOD. Such a creature is called "cherub", was in the Garden of Eden.
Adam not King Tyre was in the Garden of Eden, so why is this cherub mentioned? Was a cherub in the Garden of Eden.
Adam = mankind = all men – and all mankind was in full view Because – man is the most beloved of all heavenly beings
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
This verse suggests to me the cherub gradually began to sin, not sinned immediately as Adam and Eve did. So again this verse is different in sinning to how Adam and Eve sinned. Where do you get gradual – He was perfect till he was not – is there such a thing as a slide scale for perfection Eve was perfect – then she sinned Adam was perfect till he sinned All men are born perfect – until we sin
Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned:
Again gradual sinning, by multitude of merchandise, a simile to King Tyre doing business, but remember Prince Tyre and King Tyre refer to differences in their powers. YES – an accumulation – a snow balling effect First Eve – then Cain – then Gen 6 then Noah – then Babble – then Egypt – etc - etc
Da 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Why is Jesus predicted coming as a "prince" the same word for Prince Tyre?
Prince is a strong authority many can be called price – I have a dog named prince Why do you become tongue tied over words
But you do not understand that reigners reign over us. You say archons only test humans. I beg to differ, the devil actually asked Jesus to worship him, sounds like more than a testing to me?
No Robert – President trump has no power over my choice for God or not Your PM cannot force you to deny God Your PM cannot force you to believe in God
Why do you think outside powers rule your ability to choose God?
The serpent did not force Eve – the serpent did not choose for her – she choose alone before God – just her and God
In Moses torah we have this account of the serpent: The Moses torah says the seraph was to be placed on the pole, but Moses made a nachash instead. The saraph must something more than narchash, which is a simile of saraph.
what is saraph? – it is not biology – this is why Moses had to make a ‘Caduceus’ as the symbol of healing what is saraph? – it is a ‘fiery serpents’ – a spirit being – an evil spirit
The word saraph means burning, and these creatures fly, doing powers in the Name of YHWH. Absolutely agree – creatures doing things in the name of the Lord – Agree 100% God is in control = God’s plan – God’s Will
Does this saraph nachash oppose GOD? How can - creatures that fly, doing powers in the Name of YHWH –oppose God?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2020 15:48:53 GMT -5
D "BOOM – we so disagree Your view is so stuck in 3D reality – so physical – so limited to this world only R yes I am stuck with this view of torah D: "100% Jewish – what is special about man – 2 things 1 – we are the only creature that can choose Chose what? – Answer – choose God R what if Alex the grey parrot chose to love her master with love words, is this not choosing God?
You twist this free will thing? Sure Alex cannot choose Jesus as a Saviour, but the parrot can choose to respond with love words that come from God.... not instinct or animal
D: "2 – and from God we came – and to God we will return God knew us before the womb – (Jer 1:5) R you verses only relate to development of man from the embryo seed... nothing about man being a spirit trillions of years befoe the embyo seed. You're adding human to torah.... not in torah... And GOD knows us before the embryo seed because each seed is carried by the woman, in her as she is born. Every egg is seed, not developed as seed, but fully seed. So in Eve every seed of mankind was already in her. But you say trillions of years before Eve, man's spirit lived and talked to GOD? Where's your torah? there is none.
D: 'We are the only creature that can choose R Bogus. Alex the grey parrot can choose. Lots of videos show animals choosing to love.
D: "Man was right there as saw it all R it doesn't say adam was there, it says cherub was there. a different creature.
D: "14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so
Why is this about man and not angels
Answer – who is the most cherished being at God’s side – angels or man
Heb 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are My Son. Today I have become Your Father”? And again, “I will be to Him a Father, and He will be to Me a Son”? Heb 1:6 And again, when He brings the firstborn into the world, He says, “Let all the angels of God worship Him.”
1Co 6:2 Don’t you know that the kedoshim will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to judge trivial matters? 1Co 6:3 Don’t you know that we will judge angels?
Man is the most beloved in heaven over angels
R twisting passages Dave.
D: "THIRD POINT – there are two separate groups of angelic beings
Heb 1:7 And regarding the angels He says, “He makes His angels winds, and His servants a flame of fire.”
Angels of wind and servants of fire
R you need lessons on Hebrew. You read Greek ideas into your Hebrew. Hebrew makes poetry parallels, but you Greek thinking makes them into two categories.
I suggest you read Jeff Benner on Hebrew more. Forget Greek thinking.
It says the angels are mediums, as a simile of servants of fire. (AND is Hebrew, means not same as English) Fire is a function of GOD, Saraph is a function of fire. The phrases add to make one simile idea, not two ideas.
Angels also have a function of fire, cause they are servants of God. A medium is the way to bring fire to humans. Hence angels help the HS as a servant does.
Technically the only fire in heaven is GOD. not angels. They have a function of fire 'cause they are near GOD.
D: "He was perfect till he was not – is there such a thing as a slide scale for perfection Eve was perfect – then she sinned Adam was perfect till he sinned All men are born perfect – until we sin
R What? Gnsotic writings teach you Adam had both tov and ra, but chose Ra over tov? Gnostic teach a flawed world with ra already in it active? Therefore nothing perfect?
Sure I get some angels had sinned before earth creation began, hence darkness there. But GOD created a perfect world around this darkness regardless, without ra in it for man, until man sinned, the ra darkness opened further over man. Like you interdimensioal thing I guess. D: "No Robert – President trump has no power over my choice for God or not Your PM cannot force you to deny God Your PM cannot force you to believe in God
Why do you think outside powers rule your ability to choose God? R Soon powers are going to ask you to get the COV19 vaccine, than what? I am not taking this vaccine...period.
D: "The serpent did not force Eve – the serpent did not choose for her – she choose alone before God – just her and God R correct. CHoice is all you have.
D: "Does this saraph nachash oppose GOD? How can - creatures that fly, doing powers in the Name of YHWH –oppose God? R Answer my logic... you didn't
Both Jesus and this burning serpent were placed upon the pole, and the look of faith healed. Clearly one opposes the other. The serpent burning kills, but the burning saviours heals.
Clearly this is my biggest case for both burning beings opposing each other.
Are there TWO burning Beings upon the pole Dave?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 20, 2020 22:14:09 GMT -5
D "BOOM – we so disagree Your view is so stuck in 3D reality – so physical – so limited to this world only R yes I am stuck with this view of torahIf your only view was the Torah – you would be Jewish And you clearly do not understand their religion at all At least be honest withyourselfD: "100% Jewish – what is special about man – 2 things 1 – we are the only creature that can choose Chose what? – Answer – choose God R what if Alex the grey parrot chose to love her master with love words, is this not choosing God?D: 'We are the only creature that can choose R Bogus. Alex the grey parrot can choose. Lots of videos show animals choosing to love.Really Robert – the relationship between man and God is the same as man and his pet bird, dog, or cat, I am not even going to respond Except to say that the more you talk – the less Christian you sound I OWN pets also – they love me regardless If you think this is all Christianity is – then I am truly sad for youD: "2 – and from God we came – and to God we will return God knew us before the womb – (Jer 1:5) R you verses only relate to development of man from the embryo seed... nothing about man being a spirit trillions of years befoe the embyo seed. You're adding human to torah.... not in torah... And GOD knows us before the embryo seed because each seed is carried by the woman, in her as she is born. Every egg is seed, not developed as seed, but fully seed. So in Eve every seed of mankind was already in her. YEP! – all you have is animal – all you see is this world – all you embrace is this world No spirit – only memoriesWithout spirit – how do you ever expect to be spiritual? It is an oxymoron D: "14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so Why is this about man and not angels Answer – who is the most cherished being at God’s side – angels or man Man is the most beloved in heaven over angelsR twisting passages Dave.OH – you say - angels are more important than animals – and man is only an animalI say – spirit man is more precious to God than angels – because man can be the Prodigal SonWhy do you think outside powers rule your ability to choose God? R Soon powers are going to ask you to get the COV19 vaccine, than what? I am not taking this vaccine...period.Why do you think taking a vaccine means you do not believe in GodWhat does drinking coffee – taking a vaccine – or obeying the speed limit have to do with your choice to believe in Christ as your savior? These are just excuses why you could believe – all these world things got in your way I was going to be in awe of you God for my life and my salvation – but I had to pay my taxes, the kids need new shoes, and the job is a hassle You must have no convictions at all – no steadfast faith – if you think these things interfere with your choice to believeD: "The serpent did not force Eve – the serpent did not choose for her – she choose alone before God – just her and God R correct. CHoice is all you have.Correct Robert – man is the only being that can choose – choice is all we have – it makes us different than your bird – or my dog – or a cowD: "Does this saraph nachash oppose GOD? How can - creatures that fly, doing powers in the Name of YHWH –oppose God? R Answer my logic... you didn't In the latter torah, especially Isaiah are the remaining clues of saraph. Isa 6:6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: 7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged. 8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me. 9 ¶ And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. The word saraph means burning, and these creatures fly, doing powers in the Name of YHWH. How can - creatures that fly, doing powers in the Name of YHWH –oppose God?R Answer my logic... you didn'tI truly do not understand your point – you say one thing then turn around and criticize yourself Am I supposed to comment with your agreement – or your disagreement?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2020 14:42:09 GMT -5
D: "Really Robert – the relationship between man and God is the same as man and his pet bird, dog, or cat, I am not even going to respond Except to say that the more you talk – the less Christian you sound I OWN pets also – they love me regardless If you think this is all Christianity is – then I am truly sad for you
R don't mean to down grade relationships to GOD Dave, but really if pets love us, it's clearly because they choose to? Of course Christianity is better than animals. But you say animals have no free will? Maybe not to choose GOD to save them, but they do have free will intellect to function as humans do.
D: "Without spirit – how do you ever expect to be spiritual? It is an oxymoron R no it's not. Jesus said we are to be born again. The new spirit comes from spending time in the womb of the HS? You're saying we already have "spirit"?
D: "I say – spirit man is more precious to God than angels – because man can be the Prodigal Son
R : Returning to GOD in his spirit, is important yes. BUt you say we already have spirit? SO why do we need a second birth?
D: "Why do you think taking a vaccine means you do not believe in God
What does drinking coffee – taking a vaccine – or obeying the speed limit have to do with your choice to believe in Christ as your savior? R All forms of RA is a consequence of sin, Dave. Drinking coffee is a sin, so is speeding over the speed limit. Our bodies are the temple of the HS, so harming our bodies preventing the powers of GOD via the HS from reaching you.
So spoiling our bodies is a sin too.
D: "You must have no convictions at all – no steadfast faith – if you think these things interfere with your choice to believe R Jesus said do not fear, ye shall have tribulation, but remember I have overcome the world, they find in me nothing amiss.
D: " I truly do not understand your point – you say one thing then turn around and criticize yourself Am I supposed to comment with your agreement – or your disagreement?
R Oh sorry. Saraph means burning, and angels have this function, also the function to fly using the powers of the HS.
My point is a saraph was placed upon a pole to represent the serpent who killed Israel from bites.
Such a symbol opposes GOD because the burning is killing the people... not allowing them to live...
The saraph is a heavenly being, and could be elohiym or cherub, or in this case both.
WHy both? Because Jesus used it to represent himself.
He said if I be lifted up will draw people to me? What does this mean?
If people looked at the saraph they lived, if they refused to look they died.
How many Beings of saraph upon the pole? two.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 22, 2020 13:25:25 GMT -5
R don't mean to down grade relationships to GOD Dave, but really if pets love us, it's clearly because they choose to? Of course Christianity is better than animals. But you say animals have no free will? Maybe not to choose GOD to save them, but they do have free will intellect to function as humans do.
We disagree on so many of the basic precepts of Theology
I say man is spirit from heaven – that is just taking an animal body for a ride – till the spirit returns to God You say this is impossible – man is just an animal with memories – nothing more
You say it is a sin to be alive and breathing + Torah Laws that you must follow + Torah diet I say sin is the choice to willfully not do a mitzvah
If you make a vow to God not to chew gum - then you chew gum it is a sin because you make it a sin
My vow to God is to seek Him in everything – history – science – current events – ‘other gods’ – the Koran – even in the electricity that enables us to have this fellowship – I see the hand of God in the snow storm that burry me – I see God in the News
All things must point to the one and only Creator – regardless of source
I believe scripture when it says – The heavens declare His handiwork – God - not your satan Looking through a telescope or a microscope I seek God – evidence of God – not your satan
When you look around all you can see is evidence of sin
I vow to love my fellow an as Christ did – I will witness to anyone and everyone What does it mean to love another – care for them enough to want them to be saved and know the glory of God
Am I willing to die for my fellow man? – have not been tested this way directly But consider this – 1918 flu as with today – the absolute best chance for survival = good nursing care Every time I went to work – I took a risk – as a policemen – as a fireman – as a first responder
D: "Without spirit – how do you ever expect to be spiritual? It is an oxymoron R no it's not. Jesus said we are to be born again. The new spirit comes from spending time in the womb of the HS? You're saying we already have "spirit"? But you say we already have spirit? SO why do we need a second birth?
You Mock being Born Again Man is a spirit being – always has been – and in spirit we were in communion with God However – trapped with an animals body – yester ra of (Mind/Body) – self-preservation is dominate Man the spirit finds itself in the back seat while yester ra drives man the body And because of our own yester ra – our communion with God is broken / diminished / forgotten
To be Born again is an awakening – a refreshing – a renewing that communion with God Our spirit within a body is limited to the body We cannot reach up and touch God – only God can reach down and touch you
When He does – it is a moment you will never forget – because your spirit is awake inside – rejuvenated and on fire for the Lord – it is an experience you crave and desire more than anything – we pray for it – and we cherish it when it happens
When it happens – you change Does this mean you are now perfect and Christ like – Paul wasn’t Paul became more ashamed of his own mortality – of his own body Miserable man that I am – because now he knew (gnosis) the difference
What gnosis did Adam and Eve gain from the three of knowledge of good and evil The became ashamed of their bodies
D: "Why do you think taking a vaccine means you do not believe in God So spoiling our bodies is a sin too. So – soldiers damaged in war – or children burned in house fires – or people suffering brain damage from an accident or birth defect are at a loss for salvation?
What about Jesus says – give Caesar his due Should we fight the system?
What about – be not afraid of those that can kill the body – Should we be afraid of the system?
None of it has anything to do with your choice to believe in the Lord
My point is a saraph was placed upon a pole to represent the serpent who killed Israel from bites. I absolutely agree – run it up a pole for all to see exactly what it is – knowledge is power Scary noises at night always frighten children – until they understand what the noise is
Such a symbol opposes GOD because the burning is killing the people... not allowing them to live... Robert – this is just Sunday school talk The symbol does not oppose God – it exposes the evil spirits And the evil spirits are not even opposing God - they are opposing man
The saraph is a heavenly being, and could be elohiym or cherub, or in this case both. Absolutely agree (elohiym = heavenly being - angel or archon or God)
He said if I be lifted up will draw people to me? What does this mean? run it up a pole for all to see exactly what it is – knowledge is power
If people looked at the saraph they lived Because they knew the enemy and therefor had power over that enemy
He said if I be lifted up will draw people to me? What does this mean? Because we now all know exactly who Jesus really is – the Christ Messiah And knowledge is power
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2020 15:21:23 GMT -5
D: "To be Born again is an awakening – a refreshing – a renewing that communion with God Our spirit within a body is limited to the body We cannot reach up and touch God – only God can reach down and touch you
When He does – it is a moment you will never forget – because your spirit is awake inside – rejuvenated and on fire for the Lord – it is an experience you crave and desire more than anything – we pray for it – and we cherish it when it happens R Than it's not a powerful spirit is it if it can't push past the body? Much easier to say our bodies are carnal, the first birth, and need a second birth, the spirit birth, than begins in the womb of GOD, and you are connected to GOD more and more each day.
"D: "Because they knew the enemy and therefor had power over that enemy R why do you call it an enemy if the powers test man?
"And the evil spirits are not even opposing God - they are opposing man
You term them as ra spirits that do not oppose GOD
so false prophets do not oppose true prophets of God, 1 kings 22?
And ra spirits that tested Jesus to worship them, do not oppose God?
So why do you call them an enemy?
An enemy is a being or function that opposes GOD? But you say these ra spirits only oppose man?
If GOD created man, why create a testing program for man, that is an enemy to man?
Why does the free will to choose GOD need testing at all?
Why did the prodigal son leave his Dad in the first place? He was rude, asked bad things, and was wicked that's why He left. The prodigal son was a sinner. The other son who stayed was not.
The son who stayed never got testing. Only the sinning son got testing, and went back to this father.
If you were sinless, you would never need testing, would you? But you say GOD intentionally created sinless humans to be tested to sin? That's weird?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 22, 2020 22:55:28 GMT -5
"D: "Because they knew the enemy and therefor had power over that enemy R why do you call it an enemy if the powers test man? DUH – because they test and temp man – they are man’s enemy – their mission is to keep man focused on the world and flesh – much like your animal only theology
"And the evil spirits are not even opposing God - they are opposing man You term them as ra spirits that do not oppose GOD
1Sa 16:14 … an evil spirit from the LORD …
1Sa 18:10 … the evil spirit from God …
1Sa 19:9 the evil spirit from the LORD …
NOPE – do not oppose God – are servants of God
And ra spirits that tested Jesus to worship them, do not oppose God? No they did not – Christ was not tempted was He? Christ proved that He was more than a man – more than any man – with His ability to refuse
So why do you call them an enemy? An enemy is a being or function that opposes GOD? But you say these ra spirits only oppose man? Correct – the archon’s job is to hinder man – keep man sidetracked
If GOD created man, why create a testing program for man, that is an enemy to man?
Jer 12:3 But You have known me, Adonai. You see me, and examine my heart toward You. …
Jer 20:12 Yet, Adonai-Tzva’ot—testing the righteous, seeing the mind and the heart, …
Isa 48:10 … I tested you in the furnace of affliction.
Ecc 3:18 I also said in my heart, “As for the sons of man, God tests them so that they may see that they are but animals.” Ecc 3:19 For the destiny of humankind and the destiny of animals are one and the same. As one dies, so dies the other. Both have the same breath—a human has no advantage over an animal—both are fleeting. Ecc 3:20 Both go to one place. Both were taken from the dust, and both return to the dust. Ecc 3:21 Who knows that the spirit of the sons of man ascends upward and the animal’s spirit descends into the earth?
Man = (soul + (Mind/Body)) Soul returns to God Animal (Mind/Body) returns to dust
Why does the free will to choose GOD need testing at all? Deu 8:2 … in order to humble you, to test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His mitzvot or not.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2020 16:34:29 GMT -5
D 1Sa 16:14 … an evil spirit from the LORD …
1Sa 18:10 … the evil spirit from God …
1Sa 19:9 the evil spirit from the LORD …
NOPE – do not oppose God – are servants of God R good points raised, but hard torah to understand.
RA Medium from the YHWH.
What is a medium Dave?
Why have a medium?
What's the difference between RA medium and a TOV medium?
You are assuming GOD is both tov and RA, but it's NOT saying that.
GOD only adminstrates the medium. The flow of TOV or RA through the medium comes from other sources. That's how mediums works.
WHo is the provider of RA? Jesus said, devil/shed is? A Father of lies.
Beellisbub, or Satan, the first fully completed sinning angel.
Mediums do not take sides in contraversy, the medium allows a flow to flow. They are agents for a Beings power.
So RA flowing though a medium, is termed RA medium, comes from the LORD?
1Sa 19:9 And the evil <ra`> spirit <ruwach> from the LORD <Y@hovah> was upon Saul
Why was an RA medium upon Saul? Because Saul left GOD.
I suppose I get your view and problem, "from the Lord" sounds like GOD controls both RA and Tov, and your are right, God does control tov and ra. But you do not look for other answers? God cannot sin you say GOD has a department for that? That to me makes GOD just as guilty as the agent doing the RA. But I get your view, these verses bother me too.
"from the Lord" does Hebrew say this? or is it a translation problem?
D: "Correct – the archon’s job is to hinder man – keep man sidetracked R I get your point, but why would GOD create such a hinderance for man? Why is testing man to sin, as creative aspect of GOD? You have never answered this question, and for me such a notion opposes a GOD of love.
D: "Isa 48:10 … I tested you in the furnace of affliction.
Isa 48:10 Behold, I have refined <tsaraph> thee, but not with silver <keceph>; I have chosen <bachar> thee in the furnace <kuwr> of affliction <`oniy>.
R It doesn't say that Dave. "tested" not there. Please be honest. Hebrew word meanings do not change in different contexts.
God is a furnace of burning, a saraph. SO when you get close to GOD, he removes the dross in you, the sinning more and more, nothing to do with testing....
Dave quotes these verses:
18 I said <'amar> in mine heart <leb> concerning the estate <dibrah> of the sons <ben> of men <'adam>, that God <'elohiym> might manifest <barar> them, and that they might see <ra'ah> that they <hem> themselves are beasts b@hemah.
(no testing here "nacah")
19 For that which befalleth <miqreh> the sons <ben> of men <'adam> befalleth <miqreh> beasts <b@hemah>; even one thing <'echad> befalleth <miqreh> them: as the one dieth <maveth>, so dieth <maveth> the other <zeh>; yea, they have all one <'echad> breath <ruwach>; so that a man <'adam> hath no preeminence <mowthar> above a beast <b@hemah>: for all is vanity <hebel>.
D: "Both have the same breath—a human has no advantage over an animal—both are fleeting. R yes
20 All go <halak> unto one <'echad> place <maqowm>; all are of the dust <`aphar>, and all turn <shuwb> to dust <`aphar> again <shuwb>. 21 Who knoweth <yada`> the spirit <ruwach> of man <ben> <'adam> that goeth <`alah> upward <ma`al>, and the spirit <ruwach> of the beast <b@hemah> that goeth <yarad> downward <mattah> to the earth <'erets>?
D: "Who knows that the spirit of the sons of man ascends upward and the animal’s spirit descends into the earth?
D: "Soul returns to God R The Hebrew does not say nepesh returns to GOD, it says the "medium of man" returns to GOD.
R Why does the free will to choose GOD need testing at all?
D Deu 8:2 … in order to humble you, to test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His mitzvot or not. R this applies for RA-humans seeking salvation. What about for TOV-humans who are sinless? Why did GOD create testing for sinless humans? Can you answer that question?
Shalom Festive Day seeking Jesus, our salvation.
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Post by Dave on Dec 24, 2020 12:45:42 GMT -5
D 1Sa 16:14 … an evil spirit from the LORD … 1Sa 18:10 … the evil spirit from God … 1Sa 19:9 the evil spirit from the LORD … NOPE – do not oppose God – are servants of God R good points raised, but hard torah to understand.Why is it so hard for a Christian to understand that there is only one God Why is it so hard for a Christian to understand that God is absolute Why do you diminish God into something weaker who plays defense to your satan’s offense Just who do you think is in control – to whom do you give the praiseWhat is a medium Dave?Dave - It is a substance that allows something else to move through itOxford dictionary - me·di·um 1. - an agency or means of doing something. "using the latest technology as a medium for job creation" 2. - the intervening substance through which impressions are conveyed to the senses or a force acts on objects at a distance. Why have a medium?1- The Word went out from God – and expanded across the emptiness to form the matrix / ether / substance / base electromagnetic spectrum that is at the very foundation of all creation. Matter = atoms Atoms are small clouds of E in a Trinity – Positively charges – negative charge - and a neutral in a Trinity But these corporeal things are just small clouds of E Everything – everywhere – is built upon – energized by – sustained by this base electromagnetic energy that forms the base matrix for the ALL 2- Your medium is also a SPIRIT – a non-corporeal being The Word = God The Word with God = the Spirit of God Spirit is a being – a person – an entity - God is spirit – a person – an entity And the Spirit of God is Holy because it is God Angels are not God – they are independent spirit beings – an independent entities Archon are not God – they are created differently than angels – but they are independent spirit beings – independent entities Man are not God – they are created as independent spirit beings – independent entities Cows are not God – they are independent animal beings Ants are not God – they are independent animal insect beings Hominids are not God – they are independent animal beings Human beings are Hominids with the spirit of man = (spirit of man + (animal))Adam – was either the first singular Human being – or representative of the first Homo sapiens What's the difference between RA medium and a TOV medium?An evil spirit = an archon spirit being acting as a satanYou are assuming GOD is both tov and RA, but it's NOT saying that. Isa 45:7 (KJV) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Col 1:16 … all things were created by him, and for him: Isa 40:12 Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance? Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: You are assuming GOD is both tov and RA,NO – scripture says God created both – by Him – for Him Not a second creator in opposition to God Only Feel Good Catholics deny the totality of GodSo Feel Good Christians NEED a satan to BLAME as an excuse GOD only adminstrates the medium. Correct – God is in control - agreedThe flow of TOV or RA through the medium comes from other sources.Correct – other independent being – other independent entities – unique and different from God Angels praise and serve Archon – practice self – and are used by a tool by God to facilitate His Will – His PlanMan is the creature that can choose1Sa 19:9 And the evil <ra`> spirit <ruwach> from the LORD <Y@hovah> was upon Saul Why was an RA medium upon Saul? Because Saul left GOD. And so God sent / commanded / ordered / willed it to happen – and it did just as God wanted D: "Isa 48:10 … I tested you in the furnace of affliction. Isa 48:10 Behold, I have refined <tsaraph> thee, but not with silver <keceph>; I have chosen <bachar> thee in the furnace <kuwr> of affliction <`oniy>. R It doesn't say that Dave. "tested" not there. Please be honest. Hebrew word meanings do not change in different contexts. Way to deny the precept – stumble over words – let them keep you from the truth 18 I said <'amar> in mine heart <leb> concerning the estate <dibrah> of the sons <ben> of men <'adam>, that God <'elohiym> might manifest <barar> them, and that they might see <ra'ah> that they <hem> themselves are beasts b@hemah. (no testing here "nacah") Sure Robert – God points out to you that you are just living like an animal Way to deny the precept – stumble over words – let them keep you from the truth 19 For that which befalleth <miqreh> the sons <ben> of men <'adam> befalleth <miqreh> beasts <b@hemah>; even one thing <'echad> befalleth <miqreh> them: as the one dieth <maveth>, so dieth <maveth> the other <zeh>; yea, they have all one <'echad> breath <ruwach>; so that a man <'adam> hath no preeminence <mowthar> above a beast <b@hemah>: for all is vanity <hebel>. D: "Both have the same breath—a human has no advantage over an animal—both are fleeting. R yes Correct animal man – with a brain and conscious and memories – all dissolve into the dust - 21 Who knoweth <yada`> the spirit <ruwach> of man <ben> <'adam> that goeth <`alah> upward <ma`al>, and the spirit <ruwach> of the beast <b@hemah> that goeth <yarad> downward <mattah> to the earth <'erets>? Correct – the spirit of man returns to God I have always said this – you have always denied this – you say only memories are recordedD: "Soul returns to GodR The Hebrew does not say nepesh returns to GOD, it says the "medium of man" returns to GOD.Way to deny the precept – stumble over words – let them keep you from the truthR Why does the free will to choose GOD need testing at all?Because you have the ability to choose not to love God with all your heart mind and SOULD Deu 8:2 … in order to humble you, to test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His mitzvot or not. R this applies for RA-humans seeking salvation. Gee Robert – that would be all men everywhere There have only been two exceptions Elijah and Enoch (but you deny Enoch and everything about him)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2020 17:24:35 GMT -5
Dave - It is a substance that allows something else to move through it
R Correct. So why can't GOD allow an evil flow from another Being to flow through His medium?
After all it is GOD's universe?
Where does this sinning angel get his powers from? From God.
But God is not the source of the evil, the sinning angels use of God's power is.
Hence the medium upheld by God, allows others to use the medium for their means.
Just like a GUN, is a medium for things, each USER uses the gun differently. But GOD made the Gun, the USER uses the medium as He sees fit.
D: "Not a second creator in opposition to God R why can't we have sin opposing GOD, Dave? Even a sinning angel opposing GOD.... no need for a second creator, just a spoiler spoiling
D: "Archon – practice self – and are used by a tool by God to facilitate His Will – His Plan R you have sin, as a part of God will? God intentionally created sin in creatures to tempt/test man to sin?
That is weird.
R The Hebrew does not say nepesh returns to GOD, it says the "medium of man" returns to GOD. D Way to deny the precept – stumble over words – let them keep you from the truth R I repeat, nephesh does not return to God, only medium does.
These are two different things.
Happy Xmas in Jesus
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Post by Dave on Dec 26, 2020 4:47:08 GMT -5
So why can't GOD allow an evil flow from another Being to flow through His medium? After all it is GOD's universe? I have no idea what your question is Evil spirits have the ability to move around throughout creation – because they are independent intities Man has the ability to move around – because they are independent entities Ants move all on their own – because they are independent entities
Where does this sinning angel get his powers from? From God. Sinning angel – I know you love him and honor him for being a sinner But – you have failed to answer why it is a sin to obey the Lord
But God is not the source of the evil, the sinning angels use of God's power is. You still have not defined sin for me – you say sin = something bad that you personally do not like
So if God told you to kill another human being – then you believe it a sin to obey the Lord God told Joshua top kill every last man woman and child at Jericho – and others God sent Israel to displace / remove / KILL / eliminate the people of Jericho
Was it a sin for the Israeli soldier to KILL Was is a sin for Joshua to abbey God Who told them to do it – God did So – by your logic – God sins by forcing man to sin So you God is a sinner – this is your logic
God sent satan to test Job You say it what satan did was a sin So your God is a sinner
Please define sin for me – Why is it a sin to obey the Lord And why would God force Israel to sin
Hence the medium upheld by God, allows others to use the medium for their means. The Gospel of Philip - The Nag Hammadi Library For it is because of this that the whole place stands, whether the good or the evil, the right and the left. The Holy Spirit shepherds everyone and rules all the powers, the "tame" ones and the "wild" ones, as well as those which are unique.
D: "Archon – practice self – and are used by a tool by God to facilitate His Will – His Plan R you have sin, as a part of God will? God intentionally created sin in creatures to tempt/test man to sin? That is weird. Why is it weird to obey God? You say you want to support God – yet claim it is a sin to obey God Now that is weird
R The Hebrew does not say nepesh returns to GOD, it says the "medium of man" returns to GOD. D Way to deny the precept – stumble over words – let them keep you from the truth R I repeat, nephesh does not return to God, only medium does. I repeat - D Way to deny the precept – stumble over words – let them keep you from the truth The soul of man – the spirit of man – man’s spirit return to God
Happy Xmas in Jesus Jesus has nothing to do with Christmas You can bow to the winter solstice celebration of Tammuz if you choose
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