Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2020 14:29:06 GMT -5
Greetings Dave;
Help me out Dave,
How do you begin reading words in Scripture, surely there has to be a Bible assigned method, the Bible teaches.
You rush into things way too fast, like a scholar who understands the basic parameters.
So what meaning, (a single English meaning please) does the word satan-noun and satan-verb, has to have?
You looked over my study, and I see yours. But we have to agree somewhere before we start.
So level one, the baby level, how does one uderstanding a dead language, written 2000BC or so, how do you know what the word means?
You look up a dictionary.... that has to be wrong, because your using humans to read human ideas.
"Teaching the precepts of men" Scripture says NOT to do this.
How does one read words in the torah?'
qav upon qav.... we are told, read all the sentences that use the word and find a single English word that fits every sentence the qav is used in.
Do you agree with this idea?
If we had access to Japanese language, neither of us understand, I am certain I could read Japanese words using this same technique.
Words have single basic meanings. and two, words do not normally show polysemy. and three, Hebrew is strange than most languages, in some sentences, the word meaning can be its opposite meaning.
So what meaning, (a single English meaning please) does the word satan-noun and satan-verb, has to have?
Well "prosecutor" will not fit every sentence.
Well "adversary" will not fit every sentence.
But "oppose, opposer" does fit every sentence, doesn't it?
I need your answer here, and your comments on how do we read torah words.
--------------------example-----------------
Here is another example I asked of you: you wrote"
This is a simple answer – but you won’t like it
Luk 24:27 Then beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He explained (G1329) to them the things written about Himself in all the Scriptures.
G1329 – διερμηνεύω- From G1223 and G2059; to explain thoroughly;
G2059; to translate: - interpret
Luk 12:11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:
Luk 12:12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
The knowledge was press onto their hearts – spirit to spirit – from the HS/God directly to the soul of the prophet
It might be with words – It might not involve any words at all
R: "First you looked up a human dictionary.
Second you did not supply me with a SINGLE ENGLISH word meaning for G1329 – διερμηνεύω- , remember it has to fit every Greek sentence also in the NT.
And third I asked you what was Jesus doing to these two disciples along the road.
You answer is "The knowledge was press onto their hearts – spirit to spirit " is this not application of the context, again your racing ahead of me. Baby level 1, OK; not level 2 or 3
What single English word would you choose? And it has to fit all the sentences in the NT?
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Now let's look over your comments a little:
D: "Let’s look at your study – and we will see if you are forcing scripture to match your doctrine
R" you say I read out of context? Hmmm?
D: Satan is an accuser, and is making the case of Israel appear as desperate as possible. He presents before the Lord their faults and failures, hoping that they will appear so dark in the eyes of Christ
Seriously Robert – you don’t even understand the words of your own religious leader
R Are you saying Ellen White says Satan is functioning as a prosecutor, even though its written as an accuser of the brethren? If she wanted to use the word prosecutor, why doesn't she use it? She doesn't use this word ever.
However I agree there is a context along your point of view.
D: "1Ki 11:14
Try: The Lord stirred up an opposer unto Solomon
100% under God’s control – doing a job for the Lord – as assigned
R Possibly Dave. But your fitting to change and make applications of the word. Maybe level 2 and 3.
Do we have agreement the word means "oppose or opposer" , the level 1 understanding of the word?
D: "Try: The Opposer stood up against Israel....
YES the oppose stood up against Israel – man – NOT GOD
R Great, does this mean the word at level 1, means oppose/opposer for every context?
You mention the opposer only opposes man, not God, but again that's level 2 or 3 application. Not ready for that.
Does the word mean level 1 "oppose / opposer" for every sentence or not?
D: "2Sa 24:1 Now the anger of Adonai again flared up against Israel, so He incited David against them saying, “Go, number Israel and Judah.”
And that satan was GOD or someone (angelic being) doing the God’s will
R: Again your reading application, and changing the context. level 2 or level 3, not ready for that Dave
DO you agree at level 1 the word means "oppose / opposer" for every sentence the word is used in?
One would have to read WHY GOD allows the opposer to oppose Israel, again this is level 2 or 3,
but Dave let's agree with the basic meaning of the word first, what English word would this be?
D: "Try: and let the Opposer stand at his right hand...
YES – to be the prosecutor
OK I was surprised to see this Psalm, context. So level 1 Dave,
does the word meaning of satan change because the context has "judge" in it?
No it can't. The English meaning has to fit every sentence the word is used in. You do not do this.
Does the verse help you find this opposer also functioning as a prosecutor in judgement?
The Psalm is quoted in the NT, over Judas, one of the 12 who walked with Jesus, but betrayed Jesus in the end.
Why does Judas betray Jesus in the end?
Joh 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
Here is the reason here. The Opposer entered Judas.
What is this saying to you Dave?
Now what is the Psalm about?
Ps 109:4 For my love they are my "opposers" : but I give myself unto prayer.
5 And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love.
6 ¶ Set thou a wicked man over him: and let "the Opposer" stand at his right hand.
7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.
"What does set thou a wicked man over him" mean? The opposer stand at his right hand? Does this not mean the opposer is ruling the man, opposing his right to be saved, because he is choosing to sin? So the wicked man is judged.
Why was Judas condemned? Because the opposer entered him, and stood at his right hand, allowing Judas to sin, rather than choose salvation. The opposer opposes the man's right to salvation from GOD.
This is not really what a prosecutor does, hence why Ellen White never uses the term, but uses the term accuser instead.
D: "The reason the High Priest Joshua is in the court room is because 'he' is the accused
Joshua is on trial – that is why he is in the court room
R OK, you made no comments on Lev 16, Aaron the high priest.
Why is Joshua in a court room as an accused Dave? I thought high priests work in a sanctuary?
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A totally different subject
D: "Why do you think your satan controls your thoughts - is there something your hiding?
R : Have you ever done any public miracles in Jesus Name for your Family Dave? How do you deal with mockers who mock your walk with GOD? Dealing with yester ra is a daily struggle wouldn't you agree? Or maybe I don't gnosis the Lord?
What is the science of salvation that guarantees we gnosis the Lord, Dave?
Shalom