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Post by Dave on Sept 23, 2020 7:29:35 GMT -5
The Apocryphon of John Robert – to you personally I wish to say – be serious here or I will not play Studding these text – is not the same as your ordinary ahl + agl1 – What we call the scripture canon today – is a composite work of hundreds of ancient copies And these 100s of text have been compared against one another – looking for error – weeding out error – and adding marginal notes to all the best Bibles The Nag Hammadi Library exist in only one copy – it is riddled with damaged and missing pages 2- What we call the scripture canon today – has been translated and retranslated by centuries of translation experts – what we call scripture today reads smoothly and polished The Nag Hammadi suffers – it is obvious some of the translation is a bad translation – the introduction to my copy says – there are sections of Plato –where the translator didn’t grasp the deeper meaning 3- in English – the Nag Hammadi exist in only 4 or five English translations – each somewhat different Therefore – just for the sake of my own consistency – I always study the The Coptic Gnostic Library Project (CGLP) translation – because it is the hard copy I own 4 – Why is the Nag Hammadi of value – to me – it is this curve Biology, social studies, environmental, financial, and even political = all point to a pending social collapse So does scripture – and what does scripture say happens before the end of days Israel returns – 1948 – it preparation for Gog Maygog 1945 Nag Hammadi is found – a complete library from a group of First Century Christians Why was the Nag Hammdi hidden so well that it survived 3 of those book say they are to be hidden – for the generation of the end of days1947 The Dead Sea Scrolls are found – that also contain Gnostic literature – specifically the War Scroll – which is all about the final battel of man against the archon 5- Why is the Nag Hammadi of value – to me I was an unsuccessful Church Christian for years – it did not answer my questions As a diligent student – I tried to study the OT with a Rabbi – what a shock I was fortunate enough to learn classical Greek school (actually, I choose it so I would have to speak French, Spanish, or Russian in front of a class) But it soon led me to the NT – and if you translate the word – I mean really figure out was it says – it is an experience that changes you When I read the Nag Hammadi – it is so easy to see it as Jewish thought There is no doubt in my mind that it was written by Jews – who are Christian Messianic Jews of the First Century – it blends my world together 6- Why is the Nag Hammadi of value – authorship – the disciples and men who knew them 7- What is the information written down in the Nag hammadi The Apocryphon of John - (Wisse CGLP translation) because it is my hard copy that I ownThe teaching of the savior, and the revelation of the mysteries and the things hidden in silence, even these things which he taught John, his disciple.
And it happened one day, when John, the brother of James - who are the sons of Zebedee - had come up to the temple, that a Pharisee named Arimanius approached him and said to him, "Where is your master whom you followed?" And he said to him, "He has gone to the place from which he came." The Pharisee said to him, "With deception did this Nazarene deceive you (pl.), and he filled your ears with lies, and closed your hearts (and) turned you from the traditions of your fathers."
When I, John, heard these things I turned away from the temple to a desert place. And I grieved greatly in my heart, saying, "How then was the savior appointed, and why was he sent into the world by his Father, and who is his Father who sent him, and of what sort is that aeon to which we shall go? For what did he mean when he said to us, 'This aeon to which you will go is of the type of the imperishable aeon, but he did not teach us concerning the latter, of what sort it is."
Straightway, while I was contemplating these things, behold, the heavens opened and the whole creation which is below heaven shone, and the world was shaken. I was afraid, and behold I saw ... Christ appearing after the resurrection – and before Pentecost – sharing privately with John The Revelation of the Mysteries Hidden in Silence What does this mean? Is this mean to rewrite anything? My answer = youtu.be/QcUey-DVYjk - Astrophysicist Explains Gravity in 5 Levels of Difficulty | WIRED This is a youtube series called 5 Levels – I find it interesting to know what I don’t know Astrophysicist Janna Levin, PhD, is asked to explain the concept of gravity to 5 different people; a child, a teen, a college student, a grad student, and an expert. You don’t have to watch it – just get the point Each level of explanation gets more complicated an involved The child version sounds nothing like the PhD level The Book of Acts was written to mankind The Gospels tell of the Ministry of Christ The Nag Hammadi contain some of which = Christ appearing after the resurrection – and before Pentecost – sharing privately - The Revelation of the Mysteries Hidden in SilenceHere is the situation – you and I are simply students of the Lord A group of scholars somewhere have nominated you Robert with a great honor The discovery of an entire library of First Century Christian text Leave you attitudes and preconceived notions at the door And since we have already acknowledge the roughness of the text – name calling and wordisms are not allowed
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Post by Dave on Sept 23, 2020 7:46:15 GMT -5
The Gnostic Library Society The Nag Hammadi Library, a collection of thirteen ancient books (called "codices") containing over fifty texts, was discovered in upper Egypt in 1945. This immensely important discovery includes a large number of primary "Gnostic Gospels" – texts once thought to have been entirely destroyed during the early Christian struggle to define "orthodoxy" – scriptures such as the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Philip, and the Gospel of Truth. The discovery and translation of the Nag Hammadi library, initially completed in the 1970's, has provided impetus to a major re-evaluation of early Christian history and the nature of Gnosticism. View AttachmentFrom the INTRODUCTION of my copyThe Nag Hammadi Library is a collection of religious texts that vary widely from each other as to when, where, and by whom they were written. Even the points of view diverge to such an extent that the text are not to be thought of as coming from one group or movement. Yet these diversified materials must have had something in common that caused them to be chosen by those who collected them. … one of them, The Gospel of Thomas, begins with a word to the wise: “Whoever finds the interpretation of these sayings will not experience death.” Thus the texts can be read at two levels: what the original author may have intended to communicate and what the texts may subsequently have been taken to communicate. Those who collected this library were Christians, and many of the essays were originally composed by Christian authors. In a sense this should not be surprising, since primitive Christianity itself was a radical movement.the early Christian struggle to define "orthodoxy" – Rome’s struggle to be dominate Rome vrs Gnostics - The Roman Index – is not a secret conspiracy –it is a BookView Attachment(Wiki) The Index librorum prohibitorum ("List of Prohibited Books") was a list of publications deemed heretical or contrary to morality by the Sacred Congregation of the Index (a former Dicastery of the Roman Curia), and Catholics were forbidden to read them without permission It was first started in 180AD by Irenaeus of Lyon France (Wiki) Against Heresies, or On the Detection and Overthrow of the So-Called Gnosis, sometimes referred to by its Latin title Adversus Haereses, is a work of Christian theology written in Greek about the year 180 by Irenaeus, the bishop of Lugdunum (now Lyon in France). In it, Irenaeus identifies and describes several schools of Gnosticism, as well as other schools of Christian thought, and contrasts their beliefs with his conception of orthodox Christianity. Until the discovery of the Library of Nag Hammadi in 1945, Against Heresies was the best surviving contemporary description of Gnosticism.Again from the INTRODUCTION of my copyThe texts were translated one by one from Greek into Coptic, and not always by translators xapable of grasping the profundity or sublimity od what they sought to translate. The translator od a brief sections of Plato’s Republic clearily did not understand the text … Fortunately, most texts are better translated, but when there are duplications one can sense the difference a better translateion makes in comparison to the poor translation – which leads one to wonder about the bulk of the text that exist in only one single version. There is this same type of hazard in the transmission of the texts by a series od scribs who copied them, generation after generation, from increasing corrupt copies, first in Greek and then in Coptic. The number of unintentional errors is hard to estimate, since such a thing as a clean control copy dose not exist; nor dose one have, as in the case of the Bible, a quantity of manuscripts of the same text that tend to correct each other when compared. Hundreds of copies of the synoptic Gospels were compiled together to make the modern Roman Canon How many copies of the Gospel of Phillip exist in the entire world – ONE Thank you Roman Edit
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Post by Dave on Sept 23, 2020 8:58:10 GMT -5
The Apocryphon of John The Revelation of the Mysteries Hidden in Silence gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn-davies.html I am with you (plural) always. I am the Father The Mother The Son I am the incorruptible Purity. No wonder you see Yeshua as an expression of ONE GOD. There are verses that say Jesus functions as the Father, even texts that says Jesus functions as a Mother, But here the Book of John says Jesus is the Father, the Mother and the Son. YES! – YHWY = God = Christ = HS = Sophia = the Goddess of Wisdom = the Creator = The Comforter John also wrote Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God. Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In the beginning was the word – it was a thought – it was God’s thought God spoke the word – God expressed the word – the word was with God – spirit And the word was God – form / image = Christ Only one E but it equals = spirit and form (image) Only one E = invisible + visible James – the mortal brother of Jesus Christ answers you this way The (First) Apocalypse of James - Translated by William R. Schoedel It is the Lord who spoke with me: "See now the completion of my redemption. I have given you a sign of these things, James, my brother. For not without reason have I called you my brother, although you are not my brother materially. And I am not ignorant concerning you; so that when I give you a sign - know and hear."
"Nothing existed except Him-who-is. He is unnameable and ineffable. I myself am also unnameable, from Him-who-is, just as I have been given a number of names - two from Him-who-is. And I, I am before you. Since you have asked concerning femaleness, femaleness existed, but femaleness was not first. And it prepared for itself powers and gods. But it did not exist when I came forth, since I am an image of Him-who-is. But I have brought forth the image of him so that the sons of Him-who-is might know what things are theirs and what things are alien (to them). Behold, I shall reveal to you everything of this mystery. For they will seize me the day after tomorrow. But my redemption will be near."A conversation between Christ and James 2 days before the crucifixion Femaleness was the first to radiate – go forth – be expressed But the male is the image of God from whom the female spirit eminated The Gospel of the EgyptiansFrom that place, the three powers came forth, the three ogdoads that the Father brings forth in silence with his providence, from his bosom, i.e., the Father, the Mother, (and) the Son.
The <first> ogdoad, because of which the thrice-male child came forth, which is the thought, and the word, and the incorruption, and the eternal life, the will, the mind, and the foreknowledge, the androgynous Father.
The second ogdoad-power, the Mother, the virginal Barbelon, epititioch[...]ai, memeneaimen[...], who presides over the heaven, karb[...], the uninterpretable power, the ineffable Mother. She originated from herself [...]; she came forth; she agreed with the Father of the silent silence.
The third ogdoad-power, the Son of the silent silence, and the crown of the silent silence, and the glory of the Father, and the virtue of the Mother, he brings forth from the bosom the seven powers of the great light of the seven voices. And the word is their completion.
These are the three powers, the three ogdoads that the Father, through his providence, brought forth from his bosom. The first = Christ-YHWY The second female spirit The third – Christ=YHWY YES – just answered – and it is 100% JewishThe shekinah is the female expression of God that mingles among the people = spirit The shekinah = the spirit of God = the HS
Christianity just makes the Jewish duality a realistic trinityI am a 3 Dimensional being – isn’t it satisfying that God = God = God in all 3 of those dimensions One dimension I cannot see or even comprehend – God the Father – the thinker of the word 2nd dimension – an omnipresent spirit realm – the word with God = distance 3rd dimensional image of God = Christ – and through Him (YHWY-CHRIST) all things are created This is the Gnostic trinity - 3 are 1 – the 1 has 2 forms – E = c2 and m – E = invisible and visible First used by Gnostic Valentinius – who was in the running for Bishop of Rome – then persecuted by Rome for heretic ideas like – Father Son and Holy Ghost The Apocryphon of John - Translated by Frederik Wisse "And his thought performed a deed and she came forth, namely she who had appeared before him in the shine of his light. This is the first power which was before all of them (and) which came forth from his mind, She is the forethought of the All - her light shines like his light - the perfect power which is the image of the invisible, virginal Spirit who is perfect. The first power, the glory of Barbelo, the perfect glory in the aeons, the glory of the revelation, she glorified the virginal Spirit and it was she who praised him, because thanks to him she had come forth. This is the first thought, his image; she became the womb of everything, for it is she who is prior to them all, the Mother-Father, the first man, the holy Spirit, the thrice-male, the thrice-powerful, the thrice-named androgynous one, and the eternal aeon among the invisible ones, and the first to come forth.it is she who is prior to them all – the HS = the womb of creation Just as the 2nd planar dimension – is the either / matrix / medium for the 3rd dimension to build upon thrice-male and thrice-named = just an expression of the Gnostic TrinityTrinity = Gnostic – borrowed by the Catholic Church after persecuting the idea until 364 AD with the Arius Controversy
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Post by Dave on Sept 23, 2020 9:20:10 GMT -5
She, Barbelo, asked the virgin Spirit for Incorruptibility The Spirit agreed. And this ? The Father looked into Barbelo [into the pure light surrounding the Invisible Spirit] Barbelo conceived and bore a spark of light Who is Barbelo? The Holy Spirit Brought his and Barbelo’s divine autogenes Son to completion In order that he could stand before the great Invisible Virgin Spirit As the divine autogenes Christ And honor Him with a mighty voice. Who is Barbelo? – First – remember – no name calling – Jesus – Christ – Savior – Son of God = all the sameThere are two possible answers and support for each My view 1- Barbelo is just an Egyptian term for HS – just as strange a shekinah – or Comfortorer The Gospel of the EgyptiansThe second ogdoad-power, the Mother, the virginal Barbelon, epititioch[...]ai, memeneaimen[...], who presides over the heaven, karb[...], the uninterpretable power, the ineffable Mother. She originated from herself [...]; she came forth; she agreed with the Father of the silent silence.
Other view 2- or Barbelo / Barbelon = the Demiurge OK who is the Demiurge – it is the “ARTISAN” / “CRAFTSMAN” that helps with creation The Apocryphon of John - Translated by Frederik Wisse "And the holy Spirit completed the divine Autogenes, his son, together with Barbelo, that he may attend the mighty and invisible,
Weak translators want to make barbelo here to be with the HS – as in two persons But – look at the text – who is the HS that completes creation Together with His son =the Father That He might attend – who is he = the HS the Father
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Post by Dave on Sept 23, 2020 10:45:56 GMT -5
Adamas spoke, glorifying and praising the Invisible Spirit: “Everything has come into being from you Everything will return to you. I will praise you and glorify you And the Autogenes And the triple realm: Father – Mother – Son, the perfect power.” Can you explain this to me Dave? I have not a clue? The Apocryphon of John - Translated by Frederik Wisse "And from the foreknowledge of the perfect mind, through the revelation of the will of the invisible Spirit and the will of the Autogenes, <the> perfect Man (appeared), the first revelation, and the truth. It is he whom the virginal Spirit called Pigera-Adamas, and he placed him over the first aeon with the mighty one, the Autogenes, the Christ, by the first light Armozel; and with him are his powers. And the invisible one gave him a spiritual, invincible power. And he spoke and glorified and praised the invisible Spirit, saying, 'It is for thy sake that everything has come into being and everything will return to thee. I shall praise and glorify thee and the Autogenes and the aeons, the three: the Father, the Mother, and the Son, the perfect power.'This is Adamus NOT AdamThis is the creation of man – in the beginning – in the First “age” – the first aion In heaven – invisible –before the foundations of the earth were laid This is the Perfect Race of man – made for companionship with God FYI – this is the Jewish Adamus that Lillith parented the shedimYes they are all the same God – Correct – there is only one God But there is a duality of expression –male and female Male Christ had a role to play – a function So does the HS The Apocryphon of John - Translated by Frederik Wisse "And the Sophia of the Epinoia, being an aeon, conceived a thought from herself and the conception of the invisible Spirit and foreknowledge. She wanted to bring forth a likeness out of herself without the consent of the Spirit, - he had not approved - and without her consort, and without his consideration. And though the person of her maleness had not approved, and she had not found her agreement, and she had thought without the consent of the Spirit and the knowledge of her agreement, (yet) she brought forth. And because of the invincible power which is in her, her thought did not remain idle, and something came out of her which was imperfect and different from her appearance, because she had created it without her consort. And it was dissimilar to the likeness of its mother, for it has another form.
"And when she saw (the consequences of) her desire, it changed into a form of a lion-faced serpent. And its eyes were like lightning fires which flash. She cast it away from her, outside that place, that no one of the immortal ones might see it, for she had created it in ignorance. And she surrounded it with a luminous cloud, and she placed a throne in the middle of the cloud that no one might see it except the holy Spirit who is called the mother of the living. And she called his name Yaltabaoth.
"This is the first archon who took a great power from his mother. And he removed himself from her and moved away from the places in which he was born. He became strong and created for himself other aeons with a flame of luminous fire which (still) exists now. And he joined with his arrogance which is in him and begot authorities for himself. It seems to be saying a divine being creates without her maculine counterpart, but arn't all these expressions the same Being? I am confused.The Hypostasis of the Archons - Translated by Bentley Layton "Within limitless realms dwells incorruptibility. Sophia, who is called Pistis, wanted to create something, alone without her consort; and her product was a celestial thing. A veil exists between the world above and the realms that are below; and shadow came into being beneath the veil; and that shadow became matter; and that shadow was projected apart. And what she had created became a product in the matter, like an aborted fetus. And it assumed a plastic form molded out of shadow, and became an arrogant beast resembling a lion. It was androgynous, as I have already said, because it was from matter that it derived.
Opening his eyes, he saw a vast quantity of matter without limit; and he became arrogant, saying, "It is I who am God, and there is none other apart from me". When he said this, he sinned against the entirety. And a voice came forth from above the realm of absolute power, saying, "You are mistaken, Samael" – which is, 'god of the blind'.
And he said, "If any other thing exists before me, let it become visible to me!" And immediately Sophia stretched forth her finger and introduced light into matter; and she pursued it down to the region of chaos. And she returned up to her light; once again darkness [...] matter. It seems to be saying a divine being creates without her maculine counterpart, but arn't all these expressions the same Being? I am confused. Authoritative Teaching - Translated by George W. MacRae And before anything came into being, it was the Father alone who existed, before the worlds that are in the heavens appeared, or the world that is on the earth, or principality, or authority, or the powers. [...] appear [...] and [...] And nothing came into being without his wish.
He, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear, and make all those who contend leave behind the things that had come into being, and despise them with a lofty, incomprehensible knowledge, and flee to the one who exists.
And (as for) those who contend with us, being adversaries who contend against us, we are to be victorious over their ignorance through our knowledge, since we have already known the Inscrutable One from whom we have come forth. We have nothing in this world, lest the authority of the world that has come into being should detain us The Hypostasis of the Archons - Translated by Bentley Layton Now all these things came to pass by the will of the father of the entirety. … But it was by the will of the father of the entirety that they all came into being – after the pattern of all the things above – so that the sum of chaos might be attained. James tells us in the agl – that God does not do ra directly Just as with Job – God’s idea – but satan did the dead The Jews say – the archon are from the left hand Therefore the ancient Jewish expression – “The right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is doing” Plausible deniability God’s Will – because everything = God’s Will But it was done indirectly This is so Jewish its nutsThis is the First Archon – the BEASTHe assumes to rule – thinks he rules – his own domain But his domain is nothing in the multiverse of God’s creationYou have so many gods you use the word too easily Is everyone you meet your friend?Sounds like the Chief Archon is a bully to me In a city of a million people – there is a Mayor, a deputy Mayor, and a Chief of Police On city block – of that city = a bully and his gang – and they think they control their neighborhood They are not the Mayor – or anyone other than a gang of bullies – pushing their neighbors aground The bitch of it is – God moved us right into their neighborhood Join the gang or stand for the Lord – you know what the Lord expect of you – your mission Remember and witness The Apocryphon of John - Translated by Frederik Wisse "And when the mother recognized that the garment of darkness was imperfect, then she knew that her consort had not agreed with her. She repented with much weeping. And the whole pleroma heard the prayer of her repentance, and they praised on her behalf the invisible, virginal Spirit.
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. Cyclic – Ecc – nothing has happened that hasn’t already happened beforeThe 2nd age is a reflection of the 1st – and the next – and the next – Cyclic – birth – growth – death and salvation God’s will on earth – as in heaven After the Perfect Race of man was created in heaven The archon wanted to copy – they tries to create – but couldn’tThere is a TV commercial about a carThere is a small boy dressed as Darth Vader The boy zaps the washing machine – nothing happens The boy zaps the dog – and nothing happens They boy go outside and zaps the cat – and nothing happens Dad inside watching the frustration of the boy And when the boy zaps the car – dad pushes the remote start and the car comes alive The boy is amazed – didn’t know what happened – in ignorance thought he did it The archon could not create – she gave their demons life She – the HS – the womb – gives life to everything She – the HS – the spirit of God – sustains all things
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Post by Dave on Sept 23, 2020 11:45:40 GMT -5
The chief ruler, Yaldabaoth, knew that Because the light-filled Epinoia within Adam Made his mental abilities greater than his own, Adam had been disobedient. In order to recover the Power that he had put into Adam Yaldabaoth made Adam completely forgetful. [I asked the Savior, “What is it to be ‘completely forgetful?’” OK lighten up – and relaxWho is the beast, the devil, and the false prophet - = satan + satan + satan 1- Archon is used to describe bad-guy angelic beings – devils – demons – jinn – all of them 2- Archon also means Authority (not my text – but OK) The chief ruler, Yaldabaoth, knew that Because the light-filled Epinoia within Adam Made his mental abilities greater than his own, The Chief Archon (Beast) knew that because adam (man) has a soul (the light-filled Epinoia within Adam) This made man greater than the angels – all of them Why – because we are the creatures that can choose
In order to recover the Power that he (GOD) had put into Adam Yaldabaoth made Adam completely forgetful. [I asked the Savior, “What is it to be ‘completely forgetful? YES! It is the archon job to make us forget – what we once knew – God in full awareness The Apocryphon of JohnAnd I said to the savior, "What is the forgetfulness?" And he said "It is not the way Moses wrote (and) you heard. For he said in his first book, 'He put him to sleep' (Gn 2:21), but (it was) in his perception. For also he said through the prophet, 'I will make their hearts heavy, that they may not pay attention and may not see' (Is 6:10).
"Then the Epinoia of the light hid herself in him (Adam). And the chief archon wanted to bring her out of his rib. But the Epinoia of the light cannot be grasped. Although darkness pursued her, it did not catch her. And he brought a part of his power out of him. And he made another creature, in the form of a woman, according to the likeness of the Epinoia which had appeared to him. And he brought the part which he had taken from the power of the man into the female creature, and not as Moses said, 'his rib-bone.'No – again in invoke the 5 levels youtube seriesThe rib story is a level 1 understanding – understanding as a child There was no rib – man is not missing one Eve was not an animal clone – she was a spiritual clone Spirt the light within us – the light that cannot be graspedBecause the Chief Archon is not a omniscient god – he just think he is because he is ignorant Yaldabaoth raped Eve. She bore two sons. Please explainRapped? – you have a dirty mind "And the chief archon seduced her and he begot in her two sons; the first and the second (are) Eloim and Yave. Eloim has a bear-face and Yave has a cat-face. The one is righteous but the other is unrighteous. (Yave is righteous but Eloim is unrighteous.) Yave he set over the fire and the wind, and Eloim he set over the water and the earth. And these he called with the names Cain and Abel with a view to deceive. "Now up to the present day, sexual intercourse continued due to the chief archon. And he planted sexual desire in her who belongs to Adam. And he produced through intercourse the copies of the bodies, and he inspired them with his counterfeit spirit. Question – where does the desire to reproduce come from? Answer – instinctive – self-preservation need to reproduce! = yester ra Not my text – but OK Then I said, “Lord, when souls come out of the flesh where do they go?” He replied, smiling, “If the soul is strong it has more of power than it has of the artificial spirit and so it flees from wickedness. With the assistance of the Incorruptible One that soul is saved and it attains eternal rest.” I then asked him, “Lord, what of the souls of the people who do not know whose people they are? Where do they go?” He responded, “In those people the artificial spirit has grown strong and they have gone astray. Their souls are burdened, drawn to wickedness, and cast into forgetfulness.” “When they come forth from the body, such a soul is given over to the powers created by the rulers, bound in chains, and cast into prison again. Around and around it goes until it manages to become free from forgetfulness through knowledge. And so, eventually, it becomes perfect and is saved.” No actually – it says “Around and around it goes until it manages to become free from forgetfulness through knowledge. And so, eventually -----“1- if you die in Christ = you are judged and Granted Pardon – plucked from the fire – First Fruits 2- Otherwise it is Proportional Punishment – until you are purified – the time = the crime 3- there is even a Jewish option for a do-over reincarnation Not as with everyone all the time – but there is the option 4- However – when the end comes and you have not yet been purified – Oops! Some names are not in that Book of life And some sins are unpardonable
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. A Unitarian would say – yes- all will be saved – God is Love A Baptist would say - NO - 99% of people are going to hell fire for an eternity – God is Love but is absolutely intolerant A Jew would say – judged on your deeds – then works for the Lord – proportional punishment
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Post by Dave on Sept 23, 2020 12:13:43 GMT -5
There are still some good stuff left untouched
but
There is nothing here anti-Chirstian or anti-Jewish
and
You have asked 15 question touching on 58 topics all at ownce don't react - consider
Is there translations issues here - sure Are there weak translation issues here - unknown NOTHING to compare it to - thanks to the Roman edit
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2020 14:26:44 GMT -5
OK I will not get too bogged down just yet. It's weird to digest. Very complex to say the least, nothing like the simple torah teachings. Quote: "And the chief archon seduced her and he begot in her two sons; the first and the second (are) Eloim and Yave.
Quote: "Yaldabaoth raped Eve. "She bore two sons." gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn-davies.html Why do these account have different Beings who seduce Eve? QUote: " The Mother-Father is merciful A Holy Spirit sympathizing with us. Through the Epinoia of the Providence of the light It raises up the children of the perfect race Raising up their thought, their light eternal.
When the Chief Archon learned that they were elevated above him"Why is the heavenly Father named as Yaldabaoth? Is this correct ? Why isn't the Chief Archon origin detailed in John's book, it just appears? Quote: " The Chief Ruler and his powers plotted a strategy, To send his demons to human daughters And make themselves children by them to enjoy. But they failed. Who is the Chief Ruler? Sounds like another name for Chief Archon? And you don't like the archons termed "rulers" sure sounds like it here? Quote: " [ It was not the way Moses said: “they hid in an ark.” Rather, they hid in a special place, Not just Noah but also many other people from the immovable race. They went into hiding within a cloud of light.]
Again we are told the truth is not as Noah records in Genesis? Quote: " Yaldabaoth’s demonic forces envied the man. Through their united efforts he had come into being They had given their Power to him. His understanding was far greater than that of those who had created him. And greater than that of the Chief Ruler himself. I get the impression archons helped GOD creating mankind? Is this true? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 24, 2020 12:54:18 GMT -5
OK I will not get too bogged down just yet. It's weird to digest. Very complex to say the least, nothing like the simple torah teachings.
Quote: "And the chief archon seduced her and he begot in her two sons; the first and the second (are) Eloim and Yave.
Quote: "Yaldabaoth raped Eve. "She bore two sons." gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn-davies.html
Why do these account have different Beings who seduce Eve? It gets harder – when – you look at other people’s translations – isn’t itThe agl was no different for 1200 years – this is a part of church history you have overlooked The KJV – is edited and POLISHED – The KJV you read is the end-result of 1650 years of debate The KJV is a composite of 100s of ancient copies of translations of the original
We have to start over from scratch – and we only have 4 English copies from the 1970s – each different Currently – the only organization on this planet dedicated to preserving the Nag Hammadi is The Coptic Gnostic Library Project (CGLP) AND it is The Coptic Gnostic Library Project (CGLP) that has published the Nag Hammadi Library – in several forms – www.amazon.com/completely-Translated-Introduction-Christianity-HarperSanFrancisco/dp/B002DZUBEA/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=nag+hammadi&qid=1600966125&sr=8-5The Davies translation © 2005 Stevan Davies … is presented in The Gnostic Society Library by exclusive permission of the author. All rights including right of electronic reproduction are reserved by the author. The Davies translation is an independent source – only hosted by the Gnostic Society Web-site
The Nag Hammadi Library exist in only one copy – it is riddled with damaged and missing pages The Nag Hammadi suffers – it is obvious some of the translation is a bad translation – the introduction to my copy says – there are sections of Plato –where the translator didn’t grasp the deeper meaning 3- in English – the Nag Hammadi exist in only 4 or five English translations – each somewhat different Therefore – just for the sake of my own consistency – I always study the The Coptic Gnostic Library Project (CGLP) translation – because it is the hard copy I own Marvin MeyerThe first ruler defiled Eve and produced in her two sons, a first and a second: Elohim and Yahweh. Elohim has the face of a bear, Yahweh has the face of a cat. One is just, the other is unjust. He placed Yahweh over fire and wind, he placed Elohim over water and earth. He called them by the names Cain and Abel, with a view to deceive. To this day sexual intercourse has persisted because of the first ruler. He planted sexual desire in the woman who belongs to Adam. Michael Waldstein and Frederik WisseAnd the Chief Ruler defiled her. And he begat two sons from her. The first is Eloim and the second is Yawe. Eloim has a bear face while Yawe has a lion face. The one is righteous while the other is unrighteous. (IV Yawe is righteous, but Eloim is unrighteous.) He set Yawe over the fire and the wind, while he set Eloim over water and earth. He named these Cain and Abel with trickery in mind. Now up to the present day, intercourse has continued from the Chief Ruler. And he planted a seed of desire in her who belongs to Adam. Stevan DaviesYaldabaoth raped Eve. She bore two sons. [Elohim was the name of the first. Yahweh was the name of the second. Elohim has a bear’s face. Yahweh has a cat’s face. One is righteous; One is not. Yahweh is righteous; Elohim is not. Yahweh would command fire and wind Elohim would command water and earth.] Yaldabaoth deceptively named the two: Cain and Abel. [From then until now sexual intercourse has persisted Thanks to the Chief Ruler Who put desire for reproduction into the woman who accompanies Adam. Frederik Wisse (CGLP)"And the chief archon seduced her and he begot in her two sons; the first and the second (are) Eloim and Yave. Eloim has a bear-face and Yave has a cat-face. The one is righteous but the other is unrighteous. (Yave is righteous but Eloim is unrighteous.) Yave he set over the fire and the wind, and Eloim he set over the water and the earth. And these he called with the names Cain and Abel with a view to deceive. "Now up to the present day, sexual intercourse continued due to the chief archon. And he planted sexual desire in her who belongs to Adam. We have four different men translating the originalFor the ahl or agl – I would want to see the original – or at least as close to the original as possible For Coptic – I am limited The original Ancient Coptic text is available online I know some Greek and at one time thought I would study the Coptic Online assistance is not English based – it is Egyptian Arabic So – let’s play linguist – how can all four men come up with different translations?For me this is easy to see – I can relate personally – because I translate In class – all the student bring in their homework – everyone does not get the same grade It is COMICAL somethings to read what a student comes up with And it is equally obvious to the teacher who cheats with an interlinear Because all the class will stumble over a complicated verb form – except the cheater To keep our discussion manageable – I want to look at two words only Chief Authority – First Rule – Chief Ruler - Chief Archon = who is this It can mean God – the Chief Archon – or Eve’s husband3 of the 4 translations use it this way 1 of those translations (Davies) substitutes a proper name What does this tell me – 3 of the four are sticking to the text – Davies is projecting ‘his’ interpretation Defiled – defiled – seduced – and rappedDefiled means to deflower – no longer a virgin Rapped – implies and evil act What does this tell me – 3 of the four are sticking to the text – Davies is projecting ‘his’ interpretation Was there a particular reason you chose this version?I am more comfortable with the (CGLP) – because I have played with it in print for years To the point of the passageGen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: This is God command to man Now we are diving into the depths of true GnosticismHow does man reproduce – sex Is sex bad – for procreation – no all the animals do it once a year (cycle) But man seldom uses sex for procreation – BUT RECREATION –procreation is a side effect What is the difference One is obedience to God One is desire of the flesh – 100% yester ra – because we are more than animal WHY is man the only animal that has recreational sex – sufferer from sexual addiction – nymphomania – sex trafficking – commit rape? ANSWER - "Now up to the present day, sexual intercourse continued due to the chief archon. And he planted sexual desire in her who belongs to Adam.
God commanded Others carried out his commands – it is an active and real spirit realm Why is the heavenly Father named as Yaldabaoth? Is this correct ?Cannot answer this question without a larger context Chief Archon – Chief Authority – First Rule – Chief Ruler = who is this It can mean God – the Chief Archon – or Eve’s husband Why isn't the Chief Archon origin detailed in John's book, it just appears?Hmmmm? Are we paying attention?The Apocryphon of John - Translated by Frederik Wisse "And the Sophia of the Epinoia, being an aeon, conceived a thought from herself and the conception of the invisible Spirit and foreknowledge. She wanted to bring forth a likeness out of herself without the consent of the Spirit, - he had not approved - and without her consort, and without his consideration. And though the person of her maleness had not approved, and she had not found her agreement, and she had thought without the consent of the Spirit and the knowledge of her agreement, (yet) she brought forth. And because of the invincible power which is in her, her thought did not remain idle, and something came out of her which was imperfect and different from her appearance, because she had created it without her consort. And it was dissimilar to the likeness of its mother, for it has another form.
"And when she saw (the consequences of) her desire, it changed into a form of a lion-faced serpent. And its eyes were like lightning fires which flash. She cast it away from her, outside that place, that no one of the immortal ones might see it, for she had created it in ignorance. And she surrounded it with a luminous cloud, and she placed a throne in the middle of the cloud that no one might see it except the holy Spirit who is called the mother of the living. And she called his name Yaltabaoth.
"This is the first archon who took a great power from his mother. And he removed himself from her and moved away from the places in which he was born. He became strong and created for himself other aeons with a flame of luminous fire which (still) exists now. And he joined with his arrogance which is in him and begot authorities for himself.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2020 13:47:18 GMT -5
You're very kind to present a long logical presentation Dave. Thank you for taking all the trouble. I appreciate this.
So The Holy Spirit created on her own, without the usual consort (of other divine members) and this form came forth, "This is the first archon who took a great power from his mother." and is called "Yaltabaoth".
So this "Yaltabaoth", is also termed the "chief archon". The chief archon also produced other archons, and these archons also took part in creating mankind?
Is this a fair account of your belief so far?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 24, 2020 14:35:38 GMT -5
Again – in translation – this could be God – God sent the bane elohiym to earth This could be the Chief Archon – as in the commander of them all This could be – the chief archon (General / Captain/ Lieutenant) – with that area of responsibility In translation – without having a previous authority tell us what to think – all we can say is this might be God Himself – or your satan + satan + satan This is all we know – from the WORD – the rest must come from the context Is there enough contexts within this singular text to answer all our questions – NO Therefore – it must be held to a larger context - other writings
The 1611 KJV has had 1650 years of this very debate – to become the edited and polished version you are used to
Gen 6:17 'And I, lo, I am bringing in the deluge of waters on the earth to destroy all flesh, in which is a living spirit, from under the heavens; all that is in the earth doth expire.
Gen 7:21 and expire doth all flesh that is moving on the earth, among fowl, and among cattle, and among beasts, and among all the teeming things which are teeming on the earth, and all mankind;
Question #1 - Does this passage from Genesis include Nephilim? – they are not named here
Gen 7:19 And the waters have been very very mighty on the earth, and covered are all the high mountains which are under the whole heavens; Gen 7:20 fifteen cubits upwards have the waters become mighty, and the mountains are covered;
The waters covered the tallest mountain to a depth of no more than 22.5 feet Question #2 – How tall are the giants of Gen 6? Enoch says some are 3000 ells tall (there is an argument that this means 3.5 Miles)
Possible answer – some Nephilim just stood above the waters
Question #3 – do you know the Jewish version of Hamm? Hamm was predisposed to mental instability Christians know – Hamm committed some ‘transgression’ with Noah (Gen 9) some argue it was some type of sexual sin Jew – also include that on the Ark – God told them to abstain from sex – but Hamm could not / did not – and Hamm was naughty on the Ark Jewish – MidRash also include several accounts of Hamm hiding the archon Og to survive the flood One story says – Og hid in a shadow inside the Ark and Hamm fed him One story says – Og hung on the outside of the Ark and Hamm fed him through a knothole
Either way – anyway it happened – the DNA gene pool of the Nephilim survived the flood And reproduce again as the Rephiem – the 7 tribes of the Amorite
The Book of Jubilees 10:8-13 And the chief of the spirits, Mastêmâ, came and said: 'Lord, Creator, let some of them remain before me, and let them harken to my voice, and do all that I shall say unto them; for if some of them are not left to me, I shall not be able to execute the power of my will on the sons of men; for these are for corruption and leading astray before my judgment, for great is the wickedness of the sons of men.' And He said: Let the tenth part of them remain before him, and let nine parts descend into the place of condemnation.' And one of us He commanded that we should teach Noah all their medicines; for He knew that they would not walk in uprightness, nor strive in righteousness. And we did according to all His words: all the malignant evil ones we bound in the place of condemnation and a tenth part of them we left that they might be subject before Satan on the earth. And we explained to Noah all the medicines of their diseases, together with their seductions, how he might heal them with herbs of the earth. And Noah wrote down all things in a book as we instructed him concerning every kind of medicine. Thus the evil spirits were precluded from (hurting) the sons of Noah.
10% remain What are their job – to teach man (this is an aspect of the archon Christianity does not teach) There are given limits – exactly as the Job story Who is their boss on earth – satan (a chief archon – The Chief himself – or any of his commanders assigned to that area of responsibility)
Why couldn’t Abraham have the promised land – but they had to wait 400 years for the sins of the Amorite to be complete
Gen 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
Gen 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
AND – when Joshua crosses the River Jordan – Canaan is populated by the off-spring of the Nephilim = Post Flood Rephiem
Num 13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
Post Flood Rephiem – and that entire gene pool was to be completely eliminated - a complete genocide But Israel did not do this
Jdg 2:2 And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this? Jdg 2:3 Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you.
Why didn’t Israel obey God Look at the story of Saul
1Sa 15:18 And the LORD sent thee on a journey, and said, Go and utterly destroy the sinners the Amalekites, and fight against them until they be consumed. 1Sa 15:19 Wherefore then didst thou not obey the voice of the LORD, but didst fly upon the spoil, and didst evil in the sight of the LORD? 1Sa 15:20 And Saul said unto Samuel, Yea, I have obeyed the voice of the LORD, and have gone the way which the LORD sent me, and have brought Agag the king of Amalek, and have utterly destroyed the Amalekites. 1Sa 15:21 But the people took of the spoil, sheep and oxen, the chief of the things which should have been utterly destroyed, to sacrifice unto the LORD thy God in Gilgal. 1Sa 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. 1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
Saul said he saves some back as sacrifices to the Lord – religion - worship Saul was not only disobeying the Lord – he was practicing witchcraft and idolatry – worship 100% SELF - do it my way - arrogance - think God won't mind just a little diobedience Nothing outweighs the commandment of the Lord – not even compassion and mercy
Again – I invoke the youtube series 5 Levels Moses wrote to the child Christ spoke to a different level
Slow down a little Archon = authority – chief archon = chief authority Is it always clear – who is who with these texts? – not always
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image,
Again – leave all your doctrine at the door and just look at the text Let us – implies a collaboration – someone is helping someone – someone is working with some one else
Gnostics speaks of the Demiurge This is the ‘Craftsman’ or the ‘Artisan’
Christianity – just equates this with the trinity – and moves on I am equally good with that view
Or – I am also ‘NOT THREATENED’ by a more gnostic view In my Book I use the example the Queen of England She says let us build a building
Everyone understands that she personally will never get her hands dirty She has a staff for that – it is a very large staff – architects – excavators – engineers – steel mills – miners – carpenters – wood mills – plumbers – and electricians and the power company – all the millions of laborers in many industries all working together – from all over her kingdom
Gnosticism has a similar view of creation Some angels are assigned t plantes and orbits Some angels are assigned to stoke the furnaces of the stars Some angels are prison guards for the Gamori (pre-flood Nephilim) Some angels are messengers Some are – some are – some are Many – a very active and real invisible realm of much activity
This is not are difference of opinion My archon are rulers of their own domain – it is their domain The archon serve a vital function for the Lord – in many ways – as it involves their domain – earth / 3D physicality I say we are spirit being having a physicial souljourn through their domain They are all part of God’s Plan – God’s Will
You say none of it is God’s Will – but satan will – who recreated himself and hates God You deny that we are spirit - we are animales born on earth and rulled by satan You say there are two equal gods locked in an eternal controversy
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Post by Dave on Sept 24, 2020 15:39:38 GMT -5
So Is this a fair account of your belief so far? The Holy Spirit created on her own, without the usual consort (of other divine members) and this form came forth, "This is the first archon who took a great power from his mother." and is called "Yaltabaoth".
Belief? I accept this story – I am comfortable with this story as it relates to the bulk of scripture This story is not ant-Christian or anti-Jewish The reality of the archon answers so many unanswered questions – the church wont address
Whatever happened – happened by God’s Will – this I do believe So when you say the HS did it without her male consort’s knowledge – I say God allowed it to happen Eve took the first bite – without her male consort’s knowledge - as in heaven – so on earth I also believe in the cyclic nature of all scripture
If YHWY = CHRIST = HS - the wht seperate the creation into parts God made it all in the ahl Christ made it all in the agl and the HS - did something on her own that was allowed but done indirectly
A Jew would say - creation is by the right had - ra is by the left hand and the Jewish expression - the right hand did not know what the left hands was doing one the right had we have the Torah story - on the left hand = the mystery
So Is this a fair account of your belief so far? So this "Yaltabaoth", is also termed the "chief archon". The chief archon also produced other archons, and these archons also took part in creating mankind?
3 Points 1- The Chief Archon has many names – I do not get into name calling
2- Yes- the demons and evils spirit were created beings – created and designed for their function God does not make mistakes – birds don’t change into rabbits – birds are birds – rabbits are rabbits Angels are angels – designed for a function The archon were designed for a function No angel ever fell from grace – impossible and ridicules
Satan worship does not answer scriptural issues – he just becomes the god of ‘I don’t know’ As you have proven on this forum over and over Whenever you cannot answer a question – you just invoke Ezk 28 and move on – like it is the ultimate band-aid that answers everything
It is not and it does not
3- the archon helping with creation? I have never focused on this – but – remember this is their domain They cannot rule physics or chemistry – but rule biology The home of disease – the thing that needs medicine –
When this text says the “authorities” does something – who are they speaking of – could be many beings
Gnostic literature speaks of the demurrage – the helper with creation – the craftsman – the artisan Is this just the HS – Barbelo - - Shaddy – or someone else – as in a helper angel – or even archon
This is my answer - the same as my Queen of England answer
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Post by Dave on Sept 24, 2020 18:31:01 GMT -5
There is a huge point I wish to make hereSaul said he saves some back as sacrifices to the Lord – religion - worship Saul was not only disobeying the Lord – he was practicing witchcraft and idolatry – worship 100% SELF - do it my way - arrogance - think God won't mind just a little diobedience Nothing outweighs the commandment of the Lord – not even compassion and mercyWhy did Saul hold some back – to use as an instrument of worship – to the Lord Saul thought it right – Saul thought he was worshiping YHWY – through a religious practice But Saul’s WORSHIP – had nothing to do with following the Lord – listening to God – and obeying WORSHIP – has nothing to do with being – Born AgainWorship is a thing a believer does Born Again missionaries for the Lord – only Praise
Worship serves – yester ra – we do it in hopes of reward Focuses on Praising – the rewards take care of themselves Question - If we are spirit beings – having a physical souljourn – and life here sucks What’s wrong with suicide to return to paradise Answer – we have a mission – we are assigned a task – we were ordained as prophets unto all the nations Angels have their job Archon have their job This is man’s job while on earth – to remember and witness We cannot do our job – if we are not hereEve understood (the Rabbi said) that she could not complete her mission from the paradise of Eden Even your Ellen White says – earth is the battleground – and all creation can watch the Glory of God revealed though man (paraphrase)
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Post by Richard on Sept 24, 2020 18:43:40 GMT -5
This is not are difference of opinionMy archon are rulers of their own domain – it is their domain The archon serve a vital function for the Lord – in many ways – as it involves their domain – earth / 3D physicality I say we are spirit being having a physical souljourn through their domain They are all part of God’s Plan – God’s Will You say none of it is God’s Will – but satan will – who recreated himself and hates God You deny that we are spirit - we are animals born on earth and ruled by satan You say there are two equal gods locked in an eternal controversy You say there are two equal gods locked in an eternal controversy Be fair, Robert admits that his two gods are not equal, but there are two gods that hate one another I have no comment on Dave’s Gnostic writing, except to say; as Dave presents them, are not antichristian. I have seen his ministry help my own family and others around our congregation. Dave is correct, sometimes scripture just doesn’t answer all the questions for all the people all the time. Our congregation focuses on salvation and service. When we gather, we praise and then study on the side. However, we live in interesting times and there are many false teachings pulling people away from the Church first, then the faith. Things happen to people. Sometimes the Church is unprepared to help or even understand. There was a situation in my family. It affected all of my family, our congregation, and the community. We were troubled for a time until my wife forced me to coffee with Dave one day after they got off work. We have been friends since that day. His ministry has helped several to come to terms with real life, while drawing them closer to the Lord. Whatever happened in my family, that caused some to doubt, and troubled others, we all see it as validation of our faith today.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2020 14:30:05 GMT -5
Greetings Richard
It's good that Dave's ministry helps you, and that you enjoy his friendship and love.
You say "I have no comment on Dave’s Gnostic writing, except to say; as Dave presents them, are not antichristian. I have seen his ministry help my own family and others around our congregation. Dave is correct, sometimes scripture just doesn’t answer all the questions for all the people all the time."
Actually Richard, Scripture does answer all major questions, if you go digging it out.
I have no doubt Dave is a great and kind person, but Dave’s Gnostic writing is totally different to Torah Teachings, on the whole they are completely opposing each other, but like any work of deception, they are some wonderful truths in Gnostic writings as Dave points out, enough to deceive the very elect (Mt 24:24).
To be fair, Robert admits that his two "strong authorities'" are not equal, but there are two authorities that hate one another, in a finite in time, great controversy.
The difference between us broadly Richard is "sin" a Hebrew term meaning "missing". If a creature is found missing GOD, they have no love, but hate, no respect, but a murderous attitude for killing others.
In the Gnostic writings, it basically says GOD allowed the creation of "bad things" we humans normally associate with sinning, so now the sinning definition is blurred and confused, so that humans are created to deal with bad things embedded in their body as a result of created beings intentionally designed to be bad by GOD. So in a sense all these bad guy angels test mankind, influencing our minds to remain yester ra with self, rather than seek yester tov with God.
The overall affect is to remove the origin of ra from a creature who sinned first in the heavens, to GOD who creates all things including ra. So in the Gnostic model there is no sin problem, sin was a designed feature created by GOD.
I will leave my comments here, you enjoy your walk with GOD.
Shalom
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