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Post by Dave on Jan 23, 2020 16:30:36 GMT -5
This is from no-greater –joy.org nogreaterjoy.org/about-us/what-we-believe/Some women wrote into Michael Pearl of ‘No Greater Joy Ministries’ to ask: Is the Seven Day Advantest Church a cult?SDA = Baptist that began with Miller and continued with Ellen White SDA doctrine 1- To be Baptized you must profess 3 basic beliefs a – Acceptance of Jesus as your Lord and Saviour b – Acceptance of the Bible as presented by Ellen White c – Sabbath Keeping and that Ellen White is a inspired prophet filled with Divine Inspiration and so is all of her writings 2- Miller was not wrong about the 1844 date – just wrong about the correct event – Ellen White said it is The Great White Throne Judgement that started in 1844 3- Satan will rule upon the earth for 1000 years not Christ 4- The Bottomless Pit of Rev = planet earth 5- The Crucifixion did not cover all sins 6- Satan bore our sins not Jesus 7- The Mark of the Beast = Sun day worship 8- Ellen Whites is inspired and it is not allowed to question her 9- Ellen White = the Spirit of Prophesy How to know if a prophet is of the Lord – their prophesies come true6 failed Ellen White Prophesies 1- Israel would never return and Jerusalem would never be rebuilt 2- England would attack American during our Civil War 3- Jesus Christ would return a few months after the Civil War Interesting Charles Taze Russell (Jehovah Witness) said 18794- Her followers alive in 1856 would not die until Jesus returned I nteresting general Rutherford (Jehovah Witness) said the same things about their followers in 1925 with their Million March - million alive today (1925) will never die5- Jesus Christ would return to end the slavery in America 6- In a vision she saw Enoch on the planet Saturn or Jupiter in a paradise The suggested conclusion by No Greater Joy Ministries = leave the SDA church IMO – I think we should all leave church behind – any church – all religion
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2020 15:24:23 GMT -5
I see,
messages are harder to analyse first, open to seeing things according to bias
studying words are more objective, easier to evaluate.
Hence I began with words...
Try our study here:
spiritualsprings.org/ss-1061.htm
35 webpages long.
Shalom
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Post by Dillon on Jan 25, 2020 0:32:14 GMT -5
Predictions of Ellen G. White Mrs. White claimed that future events were revealed to her. "As the Spirit of God has opened to my mind the great truths of His word, and the scenes of the past and the future, I have been bidden to make known to others that which has thus been revealed ..." The Great Controversy, p. xi.
Mrs. White made the following predictions during her ministry in the Seventh-day Adventist church. They must be tested and honestly faced in the light of God's Word.
JERUSALEM'S FUTURE An interesting prophecy of Mrs. White's was that "Old Jerusalem never would be built up". In Early Writings p 75, she said, "Then I was pointed to some who are in the great error of believing that it is their duty to go to Old Jerusalem, and think they have a work to do there before the Lord comes....I saw that Satan had greatly deceived some in this thing,.... I ALSO SAW THAT OLD JERUSALEM NEVER WOULD BE BUILT UP; and that Satan was doing his utmost to lead the minds of the children of the Lord into these things now, in the gathering time" (emphasis added).
This prophecy did not come true. Since the nation of Israel's rebirth in 1948, "old Jerusalem" has been greatly built up.
MRS. WHITE ALIVE WHEN JESUS RETURNS Mrs. White predicted that she would be among "the living saints" when Jesus returned.
"Soon our eyes were drawn to the east, for a small black cloud had appeared, about half as large as a man's hand, which we all knew was the sign of Son of man.... Then there was a mighty earthquake. The graves opened, and the dead came up clothed with immortality. The 144,000 shouted, "Alleluia!" as they recognized their friends who had been torn from them by death, and in the same moment WE WERE CHANGED AND CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM to meet the Lord in the air".
Early Writings, pp 15-16 (emphasis added).
ENGLAND WILL ATTACK THE UNITED STATES In 1862 she predicted that "when England does declare war [against the North, during the civil war]. all nations will have an interest of their own to serve, and there will be general war, general confusion." The result will be that "this nation [the United States] will...be humbled into the dust".
Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, p. 259.
American history clearly shows that England did not "declare war" against the United States during the Civil War, and the United States was not "humbled into the dust".
THE CIVIL WAR IS A SIGN THAT JESUS IS ABOUT TO RETURN "I saw greater distress in the land than we have yet witnessed. I heard groans and cries of distress, and saw large companies in active battle. I heard the booming of the cannon, the clash of arms, the hand-to-hand fight, and the groans and prayers of the dying....God's people must take warning and discern the signs of the times. The signs of Christ's coming are too plain to be doubted, and in view of these things everyone who professes the truth should be a living preacher....All heaven is astir. THE SCENES OF EARTH'S HISTORY ARE FAST CLOSING. We are amid the perils of the last days".
Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, p. 260 (emphasis added)
IN THE 1850'S MRS. WHITE SAID JESUS WAS TO RETURN "IN A FEW MONTHS" "Some are looking too far off for the coming of the Lord. Time has continued a few years longer than they expected; therefore they think it may continue a few years more, and in this way their minds are being led from present truth, out after the world.... I saw that the time for Jesus to be in the most holy place was nearly finished and that TIME CAN LAST BUT A VERY LITTLE LONGER".
Early Writings, p. 58 (emphasis added).
"In a view given June 27, 1850, my accompanying angel said, "TIME IS ALMOST FINISHED....Said the angel, "Get ready, get ready, get ready...." I saw that there was a great work to do for them and but LITTLE TIME in which to do it....Then I saw that THE SEVEN LAST PLAGUES WERE SOON TO BE POURED OUT upon those who have no shelter...."
Early Writings, p 64 (emphasis added).
Mrs. White continues to relate her vision and makes a startling prediction that only a few months are left before the Lord will return. "But NOW TIME IS ALMOST FINISHED and what we have been years learning, they will have to learn in a FEW MONTHS. They will also have much to unlearn and much to learn again." Early Writings, p 67 (emphasis added).
ADVENTISTS LIVING IN 1856 WILL BE ALIVE TO SEE JESUS RETURN Over 135 years ago, Mrs. White made another fascinating prophecy during a meeting in Battle Creek, Michigan in May of 1856. She declared that some of those who were at the meeting would die, and become "food for worms," and that some of them would live on and become "subjects of the seven last plagues," while still others would "remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus".
Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, pp. 131-132.
CHRIST WOULD RETURN BEFORE SLAVERY WAS ABOLISHED "I saw the pious slave rise in triumph and victory and shake off the chains that bound him, while his wicked master was in confusion and knew not what to do; for the wicked could not understand the words of the voice of God. Soon appeared the great white cloud ... On it sat the Son of man."
Early Writings, pp 35
"I saw that the slave master will have to answer for the soul of his slave whom he has kept in ignorance; and the sins of the slave will be visited on the master. God cannot take to heaven the slave who has been kept in ignorance and degradation, knowing nothing of God and the Bible, fearing nothing but his master's lash, and holding a lower position than the brutes. But he does the best thing for him that a compassionate God can do. He permits him to be as if he had not been, while the master must endure the seven last plagues and then come up in the second resurrection and suffer the second, most awful death. Then the justice of God will be satisfied."
Early Writings, pp 276
Slavery was not abolished for another 6 years after these statements, and the Lord hadn't yet returned.
MRS. WHITE SAW ENOCH ON JUPITER OR SATURN "The Lord has given me a view of other worlds. Wings were given me, and an angel attended me from the city to a place that was bright and glorious. THE GRASS OF THE PLACE WAS LIVING GREEN, AND THE BIRDS THERE WARBLED A SWEET SONG. THE INHABITANTS OF THE PLACE WERE OF ALL SIZES; THEY WERE NOBLE, MAJESTIC, AND LOVELY ... I asked on of them why they were so much more lovely than those on earth ... Then I WAS TAKEN TO A WORLD WHICH HAD SEVEN MOONS. There I saw good old Enoch, who had been translated".
Early Writings, pp. 39-40 (emphasis added)
Ellen's husband, James White verified her vision. He wrote, "At our conference in Topsham, Maine, last Nov., Ellen has a vision of the handy works of God. SHE WAS GUIDED TO THE PLANETS JUPITER, SATURN, AND I THINK ONE MORE. After she came out of vision, she could give a clear description of their Moons, etc. ... It is well known that she knew nothing of astronomy, and could not answer one question in relation to the planets, before she had this vision." A Word to the "Little Flock", p. 22 (emphasis added).
Excellent satellite pictures of Jupiter and Saturn have not revealed any life forms.
MRS. WHITE SAID THAT WE HAVE ANIMAL ORGANS IN OUR BRAINS AND THE WEARING OF WIGS WOULD CAUSE INSANITY Mrs. White said:
"Fashion loads the heads of women with artificial braids and pads, which do not add to their beauty, but give an unnatural shape to the head. The hair is strained and forced into unnatural positions, and it is not possible for the heads of these fashionable ladies to be comfortable. The artificial hair and pads covering the base of the brain, heat and excite the spinal nerves centering in the brain. The head should ever be kept cool. The heat caused by these artificials induces the blood to the brain. The action of the blood upon the lower or animal organs of the brain, causes unnatural activity, tends to recklessness in morals, and the mind and heart is in danger of being corrupted. As the animal organs are excited and strengthened, the moral are enfeebled. The moral and intellectual powers of the mind become servants to the animal. In consequence of the brain being congested its nerves lose their healthy action, and take on morbid conditions, making it almost impossible to arouse the moral sensibilities. Such lose their power to discern sacred things. The unnatural heat caused by these artificial deformities about the head, induces the blood to the brain, producing congestion, and causing the natural hair to fall off, producing baldness. Thus the natural is sacrificed to the artificial.
"Many have lost their reason, and become hopelessly insane, by following this deforming fashion. Yet the slaves to fashion will continue to thus dress their heads, and suffer horrible disease and premature death, rather than be out of fashion."
- The Health Reformer, October 1, 1871
- Second Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, October 17, 1871
A SCRIPTURAL WARNING
"But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? WHEN A PROPHET SPEAKETH IN THE NAME OF THE LORD, IF THE THING FOLLOW NOT, NOR COME TO PASS, THAT IS THE THING WHICH THE LORD HATH NOT SPOKEN, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him." Deuteronomy 18:20-22 (emphasis added)
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Post by Dillon on Jan 25, 2020 0:46:57 GMT -5
Statements Made by Mrs. White Which Contradict the Bible (Part I)
"The whole Bible should be given to the people just as it reads. It would be better for them not to have Bible instructions at all than to have the teaching of the Scriptures thus grossly misrepresented".
The Great Controversy, p. 521
In 1905 Mrs. White said, "THERE IS ONE STRAIGHT CHAIN OF TRUTH WITHOUT ONE HERETICAL SENTENCE IN THAT WHICH I HAVE WRITTEN".
Selected Messages, bk. 3, p. 52
"God never contradicts Himself ..."
Letter 329, 1905. Letter to Elder Burden.
THE TOWER OF BABEL WAS BUILT BEFORE THE FLOOD
"The Lord first established the system of sacrificial offerings with Adam after his fall, which he taught to his descendants. This system was corrupted before the flood by those who separated themselves from the faithful followers of God, and engaged in the building of the Tower of Babel."
Spiritual Gifts, vol. 3, p. 301, 1864 edition
This mistake was later expunged for the 1870 edition of "Spirit of Prophecy", vol. 1, p. 266.
WE SHOULD NEVER SAY WE ARE SAVED
In Christ's Object Lessons, p. 155, Mrs. White says:
"Never can we safely put confidence in self or feel, this side of heaven, that we are secure against temptation. THOSE WHO ACCEPT THE SAVIOUR, HOWEVER SINCERE THEIR CONVERSION, SHOULD NEVER BE TAUGHT TO SAY OR TO FEEL THAT THEY ARE SAVED. This is misleading. Everyone should be taught to cherish hope and faith; but even when we give ourselves to Christ and know that He accepts us, we are not beyond the reach of temptation ...Those who accept Christ, and in their first confidence say, "I am saved," are in danger of trusting to themselves ... We are admonished, "Let him that thinketh he standeth, take heed lest he fall.'"
1 Corinthians 10:12 (emphasis added).
"No sanctified tongue will be found uttering these words ["I am saved"] till Christ shall come, and we enter in through the gates into the city of God ... As long as man is full of weakness--for of himself he cannot save his soul -- he should never dare to say, 'I am saved'."
Selected Messages, vol. 1, p. 314
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Post by Dave on Jan 25, 2020 10:07:28 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing this D I did not know all this. Personally, I have never read Ellen White. In fact it was Robert that introduced her to me and this forum. All I knew od the SDA was that they were a splinter group from the Millerites.
Robert has told us that he has left his SDA church in search of a more meaningful understanding of his walk with God. Personal attacks not allowed
The 1830s was the source of several interesting religious movements. Miller was a missionary in India before returning to America. The Bahi Faith followed his work in India and their Jesus returned to earth in 1843. Miller comes to American and pronounces the return of Jesus in 1843
Joseph Smith has his visions in 1832 Charles Taze Russell receives his revelation 1855
All of these leaders, Miller, Smith, and Russell were Masons Replace Miller with Ms White and all three religions demand there denomination to follow Jesus and the human prophet. Smith, Russell, and White were all infallible
The Mormons believe that every word spoken by Joseph Smith to be inspired
“In 1905 Mrs. White said, "THERE IS ONE STRAIGHT CHAIN OF TRUTH WITHOUT ONE HERETICAL SENTENCE IN THAT WHICH I HAVE WRITTEN". (Selected Messages, bk. 3, p. 52 -http://members.tripod.com/~Help_for_SDAs/egwindex2.htm)”
Three Ellen White statements that I wish Robert would justify for us
1- Any human that tells me that I must accept them as a prophet is too arrogant to be Christian No thank you Russell and the Jehovah Witness No thank you Smith and the Mormons and no thank you Ellen White
2- WE SHOULD NEVER SAY WE ARE SAVED In Christ's Object Lessons, p. 155, Mrs. White says:
"Never can we safely put confidence in self or feel, this side of heaven, that we are secure against temptation. THOSE WHO ACCEPT THE SAVIOUR, HOWEVER SINCERE THEIR CONVERSION, SHOULD NEVER BE TAUGHT TO SAY OR TO FEEL THAT THEY ARE SAVED. This is misleading. Everyone should be taught to cherish hope and faith; but even when we give ourselves to Christ and know that He accepts us, we are not beyond the reach of temptation....Those who accept Christ, and in their first confidence say, "I am saved," are in danger of trusting to themselves....We are admonished, "Let him that thinketh he standeth, take heed lest he fall.'
And she says agian in Selected Messages, vol. 1, p. 314 "No sanctified tongue will be found uttering these words ["I am saved"] till Christ shall come, and we enter in through the gates into the city of God....As long as man is full of weakness--for of himself he cannot save his soul--he should never dare to say, "I am saved"."
It is interesting that Robert claims to be a long time Christian, he even did missionary work – yet doesn’t know how to, or if he does, pray in the spirit
How can you KNOW (gnosis) before whom you stand If you are trained to doubt your own salvation
3- SATAN BEARS OUR SINS "It was seen, also, that while the sin offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scapegoat typified SATAN, the author of sin, UPON WHOM THE SINS OF THE TRULY PENITENT WILL FINALLY BE PLACED". The Great Controversy, p. 422
"As the priest, in removing the sins from the sanctuary, confessed them upon the head of the scapegoat, so CHRIST WILL PLACE ALL THESE SINS UPON SATAN, the originator and instigator of sin". The Great Controversy, p. 485
Their sins are transferred to the originator of sin". Testimonies for the Church, vol. 5, p. 475
WOW – this explains why Robert thinks his satan is so important satan must be a god to bear all the sin of the entire world
I wonder what Robert has not picked up on the fact that Ellen White say his satan is the originator of sin not RA
Respond Robert – explain to us why the words of Ellen White are better than the disciples John, James, Peter, Phillip, or even Mary?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2020 15:40:16 GMT -5
The torah teachings of Ellen White help us understand the torah teachings of the Bible. It would be like me an non Jew, going to Jewish church for first time and expecting to understand all the things Jews do and believe in. I would be overwhelmed by the huge differences. Scripture says trained a child, let them grow up into the teachings, over time.
I am happy to discuss a few things about Ellen White, as you guys wish, but not whole heaps of things all at once. And if you wish to discuss them, you must stick to one topic at a time, and not wander from doubt to doubt.
For me in the balance of probabilities, I find Ellen White just fine, but she was a sinner like all of us, made mistakes and lived by the light she knew.
Now none of you read my studies on her words. When I stumbled across website attacking EGW, they attack messages, and prophecies and big stuff like that. How on earth can one do an objective science study of messages and history? Science can't.
Science can only test current events objectively. Not history or evidence different people see differently.
Hence why I begin studying words. If she wrote pure correct words, in the balance of probabilities that makes her messages true...
Read through my link and study any of the 35 webpages on her words, and the meanings as Jeff Benner points them out. This is more scientific and objective, and testable, even today right now.
Problem is Dave and I can't even agree over the meaning of words such as "Satan" which means in Hebrew, "oppose or opponent". It cannot mean a "friendly foe". It has to be some being who functions as an enemy to another being, such as God as an enemy to Baalim, forcing him to speak nice things to Israel while Baalim remained, a false prophet.
The purpose of Ellen White for us in the last days is to help us translate our Hebrew Bibles into English. That purpose is NOT even known by the SDA church. Thus the words you need to query first is the Hebrew in your Bible, and you use EGW to help you understand them.
Let me give you one example where EGW almost fails:
Ex 32:6 And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.
The word "play" in English is weird. The Hebrew is "tsachaq".
What does Jeff Benner say this word means? "laugh" "travelling outside into the unknown"
Note sure I agree with Benner, to "laugh", the travelling into the unknown, is all the things of GOD as unknown, so more means to "mock" which is a different kind of "laugh".
Does EGW know this meaning? not really...she almost fails...
Like Israel of old, the pleasure lovers eat and drink and rise up to play. There is mirth and carousing, hilarity and glee. In all this the youth follow the example of the authors of the books placed in the ir hands for study. The greatest evil of it all is the permanent effect that these things have upon the character. {AH 524.1}
So after a while I found this, and so she passes the test for this word too.
Now to some important words, like faith:
Nobody on the Internet has a correct understanding of faith, the LXX does it once by coincidence not for other verses of faith.
Since the KJV made a Bible of English confusion, Ellen White has to follow it otherwise children might doubt Scripture. However does she get the correct English word for faith:
Ex 17:12 But Moses' hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun.
Jeff Benner uses the word "firm". It's OK I suppose, but not really a relationship term. I prefer "support".
Notice what Ellen White says:
Happy the minister who has a faithful Aaron and Hur to strengthen his hands when they become weary, and to hold them up by faith and prayer. Such a support is a powerful aid to the servant of Christ in his work, and will often make the cause of truth to triumph gloriously. GW92 32.2
Uncanny? Now you know why I like EGW so much. How many people understand the word "faith" is better understood as "support"?
Faith is not just believe in something, or trust some divine power, you have to do things as well. You have to support GOD and He supports you back.
Therefore I trust EGW as a Hebrew English translator.
Test her words first, trust the words, and the messages will follow... Jesus said He is the words of life, words are important. Start there. Science can test words, everyday, anywhere, without history or evidence.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 25, 2020 16:15:04 GMT -5
I am happy to discuss a few things about Ellen White, as you guys wish, but not whole heaps of things all at once. And if you wish to discuss them, you must stick to one topic at a time, and not wander from doubt to doubt. For me in the balance of probabilities, I find Ellen White just fine, but she was a sinner like all of us, made mistakes and lived by the light she knew. 1- Why doesn’t Ellen White’s failed prophesies disqualify her as a prophet of the Lord? 2- Why does Ellen White teach it is wrong to feel saved? 3- Why does Ellen White teach that satan is the scapegoat for all our sins?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2020 14:52:30 GMT -5
1- Why doesn’t Ellen White’s failed prophesies disqualify her as a prophet of the Lord?
They would, if you show them to be failures. You need to remember though some prophecies God makes is conditional. This doesn't make GOD a failure.
Jon 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not. (KJV)
Unfulfilled Prophecies
Critics charge that numerous predictions made by Ellen G. White have failed of being fulfilled. Is this so? The prediction most commonly brought up is one made in 1856, currently published in Testimonies for the Church 1:131, 132: “I was shown the company present at the Conference. Said the angel: ‘Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus.’” All present at the conference are dead, says the critic, therefore Ellen White is a false prophet. We freely admit that during the century that has passed since that conference those who were in attendance have died. But we do not admit that the critic’s conclusion based on this fact is a necessary conclusion. On the contrary, a consideration of all the facts involved shows the conclusion to be wholly unwarranted. {APAY 422.2}
As a basis for considering this problem, it would be profitable to review the matter of conditional prophecy as presented in chapter 6. We noted there that all of God’s promises of blessing or threatenings of punishment are made upon condition, whether or not the condition is specifically stated. God’s ultimate purposes, of course, cannot be altered by any decision of man, but the coming of blessing or punishment in fulfillment of prediction is dependent upon whether man’s relationship with God remains the same or changes. That was true with Jonah; it was true with the children of Israel throughout their history. {APAY 422.3}
Read more here: m.egwwritings.org/en/book/660.2699
2- Why does Ellen White teach it is wrong to feel saved?
Paul says he is chief of sinners. I feel this too. If you look at the shadow experiment, when you move towards the light, the preumbra shadow gets bigger and bigger. But you're not technically sinning more at all, you are sinning less but you're feeling a bigger sinner, you become more aware of other missing's in your life.
When I ask this question of GOD, the answer I always receive is "if you continue to be faithful".
It is presumption upon any person to say that they are saved. Salvation is a relationship with Jesus. Presumption by definition is a person not supporting Jesus anymore.
You can get started in Jesus and be saved. But to continue in Jesus being saved requires you to be continually abiding in His love.
3- Why does Ellen White teach that satan is the scapegoat for all our sins?
Something you do not yet understand. Who was the first creature to sin?
There was war in heaven, long before mankind ever existed.
So which creature sinned first? The Hebrew word "satan" refers to a creature who opposes GOD, not opposes man per se'. This word implies a creature opposed GOD first and thus sinned before GOD first. Hence this creature who first opposed GOD, is a "creator" if you like of "sin" and thus a "scapegoat" for the "sins" you did.
You do not like the idea that Satan, a creature creates things. I don't like this idea too. Darkness is not something technically created on your own, it's something you do with GOD and His light, as Einstein says the thing we describe when less of God's power is in your life. So Satan does not create sin, sin is a big unknown, how it came to be. But it did. Creatures can choose to follow GOD or no. One creature said no, and so became the first creature to say no. Scapegoat is simply reflecting this idea where the first sinner came from, thus the first sinner takes the blame for bringing in sinning in the first place. Hope this makes sense?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 26, 2020 20:09:36 GMT -5
1- Why doesn’t Ellen White’s failed prophesies disqualify her as a prophet of the Lord?
They would, if you show them to be failures. You need to remember though some prophecies God makes is conditional. This doesn't make GOD a failure.
Jon 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil (H4751 ra), that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not. (KJV) I love your example verse – God doing RA – God said he does RAWhat a bunch of religious double talk – this is why church people fall away = mumbo jumbo I am able to defend Ellen White with Gnostic literature so much betterADVENTISTS LIVING IN 1856 WILL BE ALIVE TO SEE JESUS RETURN MRS. WHITE ALIVE WHEN JESUS RETURNSMrs. White predicted that she would be among "the living saints" when Jesus returned. Gnostic – we are eternal souls having a physical soujourn – of course we will be alive ENGLAND WILL ATTACK THE UNITED STATESIn 1862 she predicted that "when England does declare war [against the North, during the civil war]. Gnostic – which Civil War – the one happening right now?THE CIVIL WAR IS A SIGN THAT JESUS IS ABOUT TO RETURN"I saw greater distress in the land than we have yet witnessed. I heard groans and cries of distress, and saw large companies in active battle Gnostic – which Civil War – the one happening right now?IN THE 1850'S MRS. WHITE SAID JESUS WAS TO RETURN "IN A FEW MONTHS" Gnostic – TIME IS NOT LINEAR – time is relative CHRIST WOULD RETURN BEFORE SLAVERY WAS ABOLISHEDGnostic – slavery to carnal desireMRS. WHITE SAW ENOCH ON JUPITER OR SATURN"The Lord has given me a view of other worlds. Wings were given me, and an angel attended me from the city to a place that was bright and glorious. h ... Then I WAS TAKEN TO A WORLD WHICH HAD SEVEN MOONS. There I saw good old Enoch, who had been translated". Gnostic – ‘other world’ = other heavens – other dimensions – heaven 3 is paradise according to Enoch and Paul – a place with 7 moons is not within our solar system – who was there ENOCH
And I wonder why Robert the SDSA supporter doesn’t like EnochUp to here I am good – then Ellen White goes to farIn 1905 Mrs. White said, "THERE IS ONE STRAIGHT CHAIN OF TRUTH WITHOUT ONE HERETICAL SENTENCE IN THAT WHICH I HAVE WRITTEN".Is this true – SDA hold Ellen Whites words to be inspired and infallible? www.truthorfables.com/EGW_Writings_Infallible.htm#SDAQuestion? What have the leaders of the Seventh-day Adventist Church through the years claimed for the writings of Ellen G. White?
On February 7, 1887, the General Conference passed the following resolution, “That we re-affirm our binding confidence in the Testimonies of Sister White to the Church, as the teaching of the Spirit of God.” SDA Year Book for 1914, p. 253.
Question? If the Testimonies are as claimed by Adventism, “the teachings of the Spirit of God,” would they not be infallible?
“Our position on the Testimonies is like the key-stone to the arch. Take that out and there is no logical stopping-place till all the special truths of the Message are gone...Nothing is surer than this, that the Message and visions (of Mrs. White) belong together, and stand or fall together.” Review and Herald Supplement, August 14, 1883. I love this statement stand or fall togetherTHE TOWER OF BABEL WAS BUILT BEFORE THE FLOOD Spiritual Gifts, vol. 3, p. 301, 1864 edition This mistake was later expunged for the 1870 edition of "Spirit of Prophecy", vol. 1, p. 266. Incorrect and then corrected by a church protecting its own adgendaJERUSALEM'S FUTURE This statement seems very wrong indeed – and is not bore out by history or current eventsMRS. WHITE SAID THAT WE HAVE ANIMAL ORGANS IN OUR BRAINS AND THE WEARING OF WIGS WOULD CAUSE INSANITY Sure do not know what to make of this statement – seems off – crazy evenWE SHOULD NEVER SAY WE ARE SAVEDIn Christ's Object Lessons, p. 155, Of all her statements this is the killer – do not feel saved – have doubt – as long as you sin you must doubt – because if you were truly saved then you can stop sinningMrs. White says:"Never can we safely put confidence in self or feel, this side of heaven, that we are secure against temptation. THOSE WHO ACCEPT THE SAVIOUR, HOWEVER SINCERE THEIR CONVERSION, SHOULD NEVER BE TAUGHT TO SAY OR TO FEEL THAT THEY ARE SAVED. This is misleading. Everyone should be taught to cherish hope and faith; but even when we give ourselves to Christ and know that He accepts us, we are not beyond the reach of temptation ...Those who accept Christ, and in their first confidence say, "I am saved," are in danger of trusting to themselves ... We are admonished, "Let him that thinketh he standeth, take heed lest he fall.'" (In Christ's Object Lessons, p. 155) "No sanctified tongue will be found uttering these words ["I am saved"] till Christ shall come, and we enter in through the gates into the city of God ... As long as man is full of weakness--for of himself he cannot save his soul -- he should never dare to say, 'I am saved'." (Selected Messages, vol. 1, p. 314) Interesting - Robert came here looking to study salvation – how to get it – how do you know if you have it – how do we get more of itJoh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God! The Apocryphon of James – Nag Hammadi Library(Jesus) said, "Verily I say unto you, no one will ever enter the kingdom of heaven at my bidding, but (only) because you yourselves are full. … Hence, become full of the Spirit, but be in want of reason, for reason <belongs to> the soul; in turn, it is (of the nature of) soul."
Act 16:30 and brought them out and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house. No steps – no long term process – no Bible teaching – no books – JUST SPIRITEphesians 2:8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” Is it by anything we do - NORevelation 3:20 "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me." Romans 10:9-10 "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved." The key here is to believe in your heart – gnosis Not believe with your academia – not hope its true – not religion – but personal Baptism
The Jews say – gnosis before whom you stand Gnostics say – gnosis the LordWhat does the Bible say about - Assurance Of Salvation www.openbible.info/topics/assurance_of_salvationJohn 5:24, John 3:36, Matthew 24:11-13, Ephesians 2:8-9, Hebrews 10:26-27, Matthew 7:21, John 10:28, John 8:31-32, 1 John 5:11-13, 1 John 5:13, Romans 10:9, Hebrews 6:4, Romans 10:13, Romans 8:1, John 3:16, 1 John 5:10-13, 2 Timothy 2:10-13, Romans 8:38-39, Romans 8:16, John 10:27-30, John 6:37, Romans 10:13-14, John 1:12, Ephesians 2:8, Acts 2:38-39, Titus 3:5, 1 John 1:9, 2 Corinthians 5:17, Acts 4:12, Acts 2:21, John 20:31,, Philippians 1:6,, 2 Timothy 4:7-8, 1 John 3:14, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 John 3:20, Acts 16:31, John 14:6, Romans 5:8, 2 Corinthians 13:5 , 1 John 5:18 , Acts 2:20-21, Mark 16:16, 1 John 2:3-4, Romans 5:1, 1 John 5:4, Romans 3:23, 2 Timothy 1:12, Romans 8:1-39, Romans 8:15-16, 1 John 5:1, Romans 8:32, 1 John 2:3, 1 John 3:9, Romans 6:23, John 6:39, John 3:3, 1 Peter 1:5, 1 John 3:10, 1 John 3:24, 1 Peter 3:18-22, Romans 10:9-10, Jeremiah 17:7-8, John 3:16-17, John 3:1-5, 1 John 1:8, Ephesians 2:5, Colossians 2:2, Hebrews 10:10, Hebrews 6:18, Romans 11:19-22, Romans 8:35, John 6:47, 1 John 2:15, Philippians 2:12-13, Ephesians 2:10, 1 John 5:16-17, 1 John 2:27, Romans 2:6-8, Ephesians 1:4, 1 John 5:5-8, Romans 1:16-17, 1 John 4:6, Hebrews 10:21-23, Jude 1:24, James 2:19, Hebrews 6:11, 2 Timothy 3:15, 2 Thessalonians 2:14-15, John 11:25, 1 John 3:19-21, 1 John 2:19, Isaiah 52:6, 1 Corinthians 11:27-30, James 2:14-26, Hebrews 7:25, John 20:19-23, Matthew 9:6-8, Matthew 7:21-23, Hebrews 10:22 Uncanny? Now you know why I like EGW so much. How many people understand the word "faith" is better understood as "support"? Faith is not just believe in something, or trust some divine power, you have to do things as well. You have to support GOD and He supports you back. Therefore I trust EGW as a Hebrew English translator. Test her words first, trust the words, and the messages will follow... Jesus said He is the words of life, words are important. Start there. Test her words first is the very definition of a cult – the human leader demands to be followed without question - Then this leader teaches you to doubt your salvation
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Post by Dillon on Jan 26, 2020 21:11:00 GMT -5
Cult a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object. "the cult of St. Olaf" a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing.
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Post by Dave on Jan 27, 2020 7:35:50 GMT -5
Nobody on the Internet has a correct understanding of faith, Faith is not just believe in something, or trust some divine power, you have to do things as well. You have to support GOD and He supports you back. You are so correct - you have to do something Question - what did the man on the cross next to Jesus do? Answer = He gnosis who Jesus is - (didn't hope it - didn't think it - didn't 'believ' it) What else did the man do? - NOTHING If we have to do things to be saved - please give me a list of laws and rituals you must follow. So far your list includes - Must do Saturday Sabbath - I keep a Friday night meal - like the Messianic Jews and the Jews before them Must accept Ellen White - this is an elevation of a human being - follow a woman first then Jesus Must believe in Catholic satan as a being equal to God Must believe that creation does not have to obey God - even His angels are not loyal to Him Must believe that created beings can over-ride God's Will and alter God's plan Must believe that Rome has the authority to Canon Scripture for the Jews who predate them and doubt your own salvation - don't trust your own salvation - do not trust Jesus Christ If nothing else Robert - you sure have taught me a lot about the SDA movement Dillon is correct in his use of cult - any man-made religion thet revolves around a person is a cult We have had this coversation many times Catholics and their saints Presbyterian Calvin is a perfect example - Calvinism first then Jesus Joseph Smith wrote 'Another Testiment of Jesus Christ' - His words come first then Jesus Mormons have 17 miricles - and one failed prophesy - Rusell published the Watchtower - His words come first then Jesus The Jehovah Witness have 2 failed prophesies and soon a 3rd Bahi Faith - also follows news words - spoken in India while Miller was there Bahi has one failed prophesy Miller Published - two failed prophesies White published - calls herself inspired - her words seem to be as important to SDA as Jesus and failed prophesies All of these awakenings happening within 30 years of one another No wonder you do not like to discuss history Religion wants to say you alter yourself to have relationship Follows rules, laws, words, rituals, measure yourselve for performace standards - know you fall short followed by doubt - if I fall short - and prayers become obligationss or apoloigies If I lived in ahl days - I hope I was a member of the CULT of MOSES (Isreal) gnosis whom before you stand Today - I want to be a member of the CULT of JESUS CHRIST (Christian) gnosis whom before you stand Once you gnosis this - you renew your relationship with your Creator - you are altered forever An Amishman explained this way to me long ago (1984 to be exact) - we worked together There are things he can do in front of me - that he would never do in front of the boss There are things he can do in front of his wife - that he would never do in front of me Then he says - if Jesus Christ was stand right beside you - how would that affect your conduct? I gnosis without a doubt that Jesus Christ is standing right beside me asnd I asm also in full view of the HS and God, as well as, all creation (which as a Gnostics is a whole lot of life - and life forms). And I am here to tell you - it affects my conduct Does it make me perfect in man's eyes - NO - I am still the same animal Body-Mind that Paul was - as we all are in this realm Can I conviently put this in a list? Easy - In full view of the Creator of the multiverse I can choose mitzvah or chata Don't be religious - practice faith Don't talk it - walk it
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 13:38:19 GMT -5
an emotional burst, without looking at the facts spiritualsprings.org/ss-17.htmLu 23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. Lu 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. .. Dost not thou fear God.. humble ..willing for change.. ..this man hath done nothing amiss.. Jesus (1) Saviour principle ..Lord, remember me.. repents (2) Home principle ..And he said.. prayer (3) Power principle ..when thou comest.. witness (4) Fruit principle Than Jesus pronounced unto others, this man was justified... "To day shalt thou be with me in paradise ". Jesus' principles of salvation had germinated in the man's heart... Did the man experience paradise that day, even after 7 seconds of prayer ? yes ! But paradise is not a place, it's a person, called Jesus. Jesus was now germinating in the man's heart, and the sinner had paradise like never before. Many people view nouns in Hebrew as static descriptions of objects...no...Nouns in Hebrew are verb-like actions completed. The paradise of Jesus was started in the man's heart that very day,(the word is verb like) and would continue as paradise until he see's the Lord of Paradise, and the the Garden Home of Paradise made for those who love Him. How exciting is the Science of Salvation, that even children understand ! Shalom In the example you quote, the man on the Cross next to Jesus, did 4 things, following the Science of Salvation. he saw his need he saw his Saviour he repented his sins he spoke prayers of power he was a witness to Jesus growing in him spiritualsprings.org/ss-776.htmI would read these steps to Jesus. spiritualsprings.org/ss-1513.htmPerhaps understand what faith means? Did the thief on the cross support Jesus? yes, in 4 ways I said Ellen White is a Hebrew English translator... not a person who writes teachings we follow blindly. Again you don't read my study of her words. You say I don't like history. I studied ancient history at school, grade 11 and 12. I love ancient history. Problem with history is people read the evidence differently. Hence science deals with current events, not historical events. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 27, 2020 17:29:31 GMT -5
You are telling us that the man on the cross next to Jesus Christ was not saved – did not earn his spot in the book of life to experience eternal life with God
You are so wrong it is crazy
You are correct – God brought the Israel out of Egypt so the whole world would know that the God of Israel of the one true God
What evidence does the whole world have – only history Israel returning to Judea and rebuilding Jerusalem – fulfillment of ahl prophesy or not?
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Post by Richard on Jan 27, 2020 21:29:18 GMT -5
Tit 3:3 For we also once were foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, hating one another. Tit 3:4 But when the kindness of God our Saviour, and his love toward man, appeared, Tit 3:5 not by works done in righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, Tit 3:6 which he poured out upon us richly, through Jesus Christ our Saviour; Tit 3:7 that, being justified by his grace, we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
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Post by Dave on Jan 28, 2020 6:08:28 GMT -5
Did the man experience paradise that day, even after 7 seconds of prayer ? yes ! But paradise is not a place, it's a person, called Jesus. Ellen White went Saturn or Jupiter to see Enoch in Jesus? When Enoch and Paul wrote of paradise in heaven is was Jesus they saw – Beautiful trees and gardens, babbling brooks and running streams = this is Jesus? Jesus said - To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. – Jesus means today you will be with paradise in paradise – or Jesus is in Jesus - ? he saw his need - sure he saw his Saviour – YES!he repented his sins – OF COURSE once you gnosis a lot of things changehe spoke prayers of power – asked to be remembered - sure he was a witness to Jesus - absolutely Did the thief on the cross support Jesus? yes, in 4 waysWhy just only 4 – I bet I could add volumes of THINGS by which to measure Did he regret his life? Was he ashamed? If he got down off the cross he would have been an amazing disciple. He would have dedicated his life to telling others of his savior – of course. Jesus made your list of measures very simple – He said – Follow me! Why do you insist making a religion of measures to accomplish following Jesus Noah argued with God, disobeyed God, eventually complied with God OUT OF DUREST – are you telling me Noah cannot be saved / have salvation because his list of measures is very different than yours Every Catholic out there will tell me that Judas was damned to hell – really? God used Judas to FACILITATE God’s Will / God’s plan – so Judas is damned OH – a Catholic will also say – satan made Judas sin So – satan wanted Christ to be resurrected – so the whole world could be redeemed A Gnostic is confused how this makes satan God’s sworn enemy? Why must you JUDGE anyone by a list of measures – RELIGION So – tell christian measuring judge – just how much Christ do we need within us to be saved? You represented her much more importantly And lastly each denomination should realize in the last days Jesus made a prophecy to send a prophet to make his church truth's straight again or known, since the dark ages, all of Jesus truth was lost and confused. This is the time of the reformation period, when many were raised up for this purpose. You will notice around this time two female prophets, one called Ellen White wrote many books making truth straight, and Alice Bailey
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