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Post by Dave on Feb 1, 2020 17:01:29 GMT -5
What I see is another example of a prophesy written in 1851 Then in 1901 - Clarified / altered / interpreted for us - to not be erroneous
Inspired? - If you lose this claim - she would become more interesting
There is no doubt that the ahl and agl predict the rebuilding of a physical 3rd temple Her claim is not consistent with scripture - Unless it is understood metaphorically
Remember this word - polysemy So – in one theological concept - Cherub chata cannot be a metaphor but – Jerusalem can if necessary to support a different concept
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2020 13:03:17 GMT -5
There is no doubt that the ahl and agl predict the rebuilding of a physical 3rd temple
OK where is this prophecy. If such a prophecy exists in the Hebrew, it would prove all of her teachings false. Her teachings make it clear the only temple we have now is in heaven, the only special city we have now is in heaven.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 3, 2020 0:11:53 GMT -5
OK where is this prophecy. If such a prophecy exists in the Hebrew, it would prove all of her teachings false. Her teachings make it clear the only temple we have now is in heaven, the only special city we have now is in heaven. There are two ways to look at it – both views depend if 1948 Israel is prophetic1- If you are an ahl only person – Jewish – you long for the third physical temple It is the entire focused of ‘The Temple Institute’ 4 Unique Characteristics of the Third Temple www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/3716004/jewish/4-Unique-Characteristics-of-the-Third-Temple.htmUpdate on the Building of the Third Temple www.jewishvoice.org/read/article/update-building-third-temple2- Christendom says – no physical temple it is a spiritual metaphore Christendom says – The Jews are over – Ellen White sure thinks the Jews to be something of the past Christians are the Temple of Christ Years ago – I was of the Christendom view - Mar 11:13 Seeing from a distance a fig tree in leaf, He went to see if He would find any fruit on it. When He came up to it, He found nothing except leaves, because it wasn’t the season for figs. 14 And He said to it, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again!” And His disciples were listening. If the fig tree = Israel then Israel or Jews are something of the past and now we only have the Messianic era 3- Today, I see it differently – Jesus is the fruit of the fig tree (Judah) and He is the only one – and - It wasn’t the season for figs – Scripture has layers of meaning – the exodus was a real physical event – it is a spiritual event Festival of Weeks / Pentecost - Sinai was a real physical event – and it is a spiritual event The 3rd Temple can be a real physical event – and a spiritual event 4- History – Current events – WWI (Balfour Declaration 1917) – WWII (Holocaust – 1945) – Israel 1948 Question – is this prophetic – if yes – then I should care what happens there – and a third Temple is coming on the ground If 1948 Israel – is not prophetic - then the nation of Israel is a modern political movement – and perhaps stop support and let the evangelicals convert everyone there to Christianity Why I think Israel is prophetic – and why there needs to be a 3rd physical Temple (even if it isn’t the one drafted by Ezekiel) Jesus says Mat 24:15 “So when you see ‘the abomination of desolation,’ which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the Holy Place (let the reader understand), Mar 13:14 “But when you see ‘the abomination of desolation’ standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then those in Judea must flee to the mountains. Christendom does not understand the abomination of desolation’ It is the worship of Tammuz in the Temple – complete with pig sacrifice (ham dinners) This is clearly explained in Ezk 8 and 9 One day – some Roman Pope – or Famous Christian Leader will hold a Christmas Service or Easter Service in the 3rd Temple – then Christ will return When you see this – look out
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2020 12:03:19 GMT -5
Well my friend, we are way different in our views. So I will not comment, and this shows Ellen White words are still valid.
Sure it is a long term goal for the Catholics to built a temple in Jerusalem on the dome of the rock. Catholics and Muslims are two sides of the same religion anyway. Have you ever noticed temples of both are close to each other?
As for your abomination that causes desolation, this happened when Rome pushed their standards into the temple in AD66, when the temple went up in flames. The Roman Catholics will again plant their standards all over the world, when the One World Government is set up, and all people will follow a universal Sunday Sabbath. Will the current Jews agree to change from Saturday Sabbath to Sunday Sabbath, I don't know?
It is interesting in Ezekiel's day, the Jews were worshipping on Sunday while pretending to worship on Saturday. How is this possible you say?
Eze 8:16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.
So the Jews in those days were worshipping a Sunday Sabbath on Saturday !! By the way many SDA Churches also align with the altar of prayer facing the East, instead of the West, so many congregations are worshipping Sunday on Saturday too.
Does all these details matter? yes. In the end of time when the One World Government demands your allegiance, it will be easy for you to say yes, because your already making compromise.
The last time a universal Sunday Law happened in the USA was in 1888, the so called blue laws. This kind of thing will happen again.
Shalom
PS
one comment:
It is exciting to see these developments unfold in the Land of Israel regarding the building of a Third Temple as we eagerly watch for the second coming of our Messiah!
Wow. Fancy Jews wanting a third temple to usher in the Second Coming of Jesus? They don't like the first coming of a Messiah?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2020 13:23:06 GMT -5
On another topic Dave, we have discussed much of your theories of faith for a long time, I would like you to discuss some of my theories of faith. I will defend my webpages or change them, as you critique them? Will you help me do this? I would like our website to experience critique, and I value your opinion, even though we might differ?
So if you agree? We could make a thread.
spiritualsprings.org/ss-1220.htm
I would like to discuss, something important to me, how to be saved by Jesus?
Luke 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. (KJV)
To me, IMO, this is perhaps the easiest fastest way for a person off the street unfamiliar with a Bible, to be saved. Speak these words, or something like them, and your saved by Jesus, right than and now.
Would you agree with this verse, and it's idea? Is this a Jewish idea as well?
Do you have a better verse showing salvation to a stranger in the street?
How would you reach a stranger?
At the end of this webpage is another point:
You are saved right now. Let's help you appreciate this salvation in you, because the more you feel Jesus' love in you, the more you will love Your Lord. So let's learn a little...
Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:
Next, we look at maintaining salvation.
Do you agree the torah is to help us appreciate this salvation, so easily given to us as a gift? Some say "once saved - always saved" is not something the Bible teaches. If you don't appreciate the gift, you despise the gift, and refuse to support the gift. So maintaining your love response to this gift is important, would you agree with this?
Love is a gift, but is relational, and requires you to respond daily, as the gift as a stream of love is also gifted to you daily. Some think "love" is a one off gift thing, like men who love their courting partners to marriage, and neglect them after marriage. Love does not work like that?
So should we change the next webpage to "maintaining salvation" "maintaining your love response"? or is this confusing to a stranger?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 4, 2020 0:19:25 GMT -5
So – without answering the question – your obvious answer is that 1948 Israel is not prophetic This might explain your anti-sematic attitudes at times
A perfect example of Christian error Jesus said – when you see this – then 7 yrs tribulation – then the 2nd coming Has Jesus returned? Therefore your understanding of the abomination desolation is in error
YES! – Ezk 8 and 9 tells us what the abomination desolation is – The Worship of Tammuz Tammuz who was born on Dec 25th (Winter Equinox) to Nimrod and his wife Semiramis Semiramis died, but returned to the River Euphrates in an egg on the Spring Equinox As a bare breasted goddess Isthar she changed a bird into an egg laying rabbit When Tammuz was 40 he was killed by a wild bore (pig) So every year – In Ezk 8 – Priest of Tammuz would impregnate virgins on the alter at the cave of the winds – at Spring Equinox – so that next Spring Equinox – the Women can weep for Tammuz 40 days (lent) before the Spring Equinox when those babies would be sacrificed and eggs stained with their blood became a symbol of the faith – (Easter Eggs)
Why is Christmas Dec 25th – Tammuz Why don’t Christians celebrate the Passover – instead they celebrate Easter Sunday (Spring Equinox)
Worship of Tammuz and Ishtar in the Temple = ‘abomination desolation’
To everything there is a time and a season (Jer) If you do not see the hand of God on Israel – then you are in denial There is no need to be anti-semetic – I am not jealous of them and I pray God fulfills every promise to them – God does keep His promises doesn’t He?
Would I use religious vocabulary to discuss my Creator with someone new – NO WAY How about the reality of an unseen realm all around us? How about the reality that science says we all might just be holographic projection unpon a matrix of energy? How about isn’t it cool that all things are just built upon non-things energy. Maybe if they were a history buff I would discuss Israel 6 day war – little things like how the Syrian Tank Commanders all say angels stood in their path – did you know that two private fighters flown by American volunteers – with no bombs or ammunition - caused the entire Egyptian army to stop their advance.
Do I agree? Hmmmm? I think a Rabbi would ask – what do you mean by gift? Christians take it as – God gave us the gift of salvation from something – or to something A Rabbi would say – the gift is the opportunity to share God’s glory with another A Rabbi says – seeking rewards in heaven is selfish – if that is your motive I agree A Rabbi says – bring about God’s glory – help God demonstrate His glory – the rest will follow
We differ in opinion – my God will never let you go – I have confidence in my God I require a higher standard than believing its true or hoping its true – The Jews say – KNOW (gnosis) before whom you stand This is the point of Gnosticism - it isn’t about communion with bread and wine – it is about communion with spirit
Hate your terminology – why do I need to maintain something I cannot lose? Rather – you should try walking in the spirit – walking with the spirit – listening to the spirit
You are welcome to post anything you want But I sure wish you would answer the question if 1948 Israel is prophetic Are we in the end of day era?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2020 15:11:58 GMT -5
There is no need to be anti-semetic
I am a spiritual Jew myself Dave, a torah follower. I like Jews and respect their ways.
As for 1948 prophecy. Do you see old Jerusalem going back to animal sacrifices again in the third temple?
Is it wrong to see in Scripture a temple and New Jerusalem city is in heaven, where Jesus it?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 4, 2020 22:50:40 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2020 15:56:19 GMT -5
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Do you think it is necessary to make animal sacrifice to Jesus?
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Post by Dave on Feb 5, 2020 22:49:15 GMT -5
Depends if you strictly follow Torah
Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Torah or the Prophets! I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. 18 Amen, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or serif shall ever pass away from the Torah until all things come to pass.
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Post by Dave on Feb 6, 2020 12:36:15 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2020 15:26:54 GMT -5
Depends if you strictly follow Torah
Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Torah or the Prophets! I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. 18 Amen, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or serif shall ever pass away from the Torah until all things come to pass
Correct. Today if we sin we confess our sins to our High Priest not of Levi. Therefore rules change. New wine in new wine skins. However in Levi system, one could sacrifice wheat instead, a plant. ie bread and wine are token of plants, not animals.
When you study torah on a subject, all lines upon lines must be studied, not pick and choose. But I agree with you, we must sacrifice still, only what we sacrifice is ourselves as living sacrifices of praise to Jesus. But some feasts remain in new spiritual meanings.
The Passover feast was changed to another Passover feast. It uses plant offerings rather than animal offerings.
This feast points forward to the wedding feast in heaven.
Shalom
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2020 15:38:32 GMT -5
At the same time there is a growing movement of those who believe that Jesus is the long-promised Jewish Messiah, fulfilling the word that when the Jews are finally restored from all the nations to which they were dispersed because of forsaking God’s ways, they would be given a ‘new heart’ and, as with the Dead Sea, cleansed and ‘sprinkled clean’ of their sins. (Ezek 36.24-26)
How remarkable we live close to the coming of Jesus, Ellen White says the Garden of Eden was lifted up out from the earth and taken to heaven, before the flood. This hole left in the ground is the dead sea. The beginning signs of fresh water, shows that when Jesus comes during the third coming, the Garden with its city comes back down to fill this very hole.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Now Mt Olives is far from Dead Sea, but now that far. The new city and its garden would stretch from Mt Olives to Dead Sea, a huge square city.
So I see these things point to the city in heaven, not a third temple and city on earth.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 6, 2020 22:06:25 GMT -5
The point of this thread was to discuss – Is SDA a cult?
What is a cult – a group that values an individual person’s doctrine MORE than scriptural doctrine Perfect example – Calvin
1830 Joseph Smith – writes an entirely New Testament of Jesus Christ (Mormon) 1830 Miller – 2 failed prophesies – Great Disappointment (Millerites) 1860 Charles Russell – and the Watch Tower Movement – 3 failed prophesies 1850 Ellen White – reaffirms Miller failed prophesies – changes 2nd Coming with Great Throne Judgment beginning in heaven – She claims, herself, that her word are without error (SDA)
SDA doctrine says – you cannot be baptized into the church unless you accept Ellen Whites infallibility and read scripture as she only teaches
In an academic inquiry into the validity of Ellen Whites claims Your response is – all prophesies of the End-of-Days are wrong Exk 38 – Gog Magog – cannot be true – because – there is no gathering of the Jews back to Israel Your response to Ezk 47 prophesies – was to pretend it not relevant
No effort to show us how these prophesies support you view You just do not answer – you evade – and MOCK the Jews for practicing their faith
What is a cult – a group that values an individual person’s doctrine MORE than scriptural doctrine Perfect example – Ellen White and the SDA
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2020 15:43:07 GMT -5
Your answer made me smile Dave.
What is a cult – a group that values an individual person’s doctrine MORE than scriptural doctrine
Which midrash Jew on the Satan thing being a good angel doing a bad job do you follow, while Hebrew scripture says something else?
If you want to discuss Ellen White prophecies, than raise your concerns. Do it in detail, with her quotes.
As for the link you provided, are you presenting something the Bible doesn't present? I don't use Ellen White to show where your wrong. I use Hebrew Scriptures.
Dave: "SDA doctrine says – you cannot be baptized into the church unless you accept Ellen Whites infallibility and read scripture as she only teaches
This is not so.
Many SDA never read Mrs White. Many read Scripture as they feel. Many call Mrs White a hit and miss prophet, and don't follow her.
Sadly this means many SDA people are losing their faith.
Also I do not mock Jews. I only uphold the Hebrew Bible as it reads.
Dave: "No effort to show us how these prophesies support you view
Really? DO you really want Scripture for these? Why I showed you Scripture at length over "satan" as an "opponent" so how is Scripture going to sway you?
I gave you a sign of our validity of our faith:
When you see the USA pushing for a global Sunday worship of Sabbath on Sundays, you will remember us, and these prophecies of Ellen White. It happened once in 1888 briefly, soon it will happen again around the world globally.
Dave:"1850 Ellen White – reaffirms Miller failed prophesies
Does Scripture confirm that it would fail?
Re 10:9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey. 10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter. 11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. (KJV)
The 1844 thing, the honey experience that is bitter is right here in Revelation. Notice it says "Thou must prophesy again"
Israel also experience honey during Exodus, but later became bitter. Why? People had unbelief. So only the children entered promise land and two adults, Joshua and Caleb. All others were not welcome, because of sin.
It would be a better use of our time to discuss how to get more faith, learn to walk in the Holy Spirit, than to get bogged down in cult like views.
Shalom
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