Alternative Energies

[Dave]

This is neighbor Greg's house (3 miles) - it is Rammed Earth Construction

It was built in 1974 - other neighbors water panels were also from the 70s (must have been a good era here - the first wave of intelligent Hippies). I didn'y know it but there is a large hotel on the HWY called the Rio Churchera. It is 3 stories tall and mega long with a pool at the far end. It was also built with the same bricks from the same hole.

A team was here with a trailer mounted 25,000 lbs hyrrolic press - it was powered by a free standing diesle engine mounted to the same trailer. It had a three stage sliding mold - someone was always taking a brick out, someone was always making a brick, and someone was always loading the mud for the next brick. A team of six could make 3,500 bricks a day.

I asked if they did anything special to the dirt here?
They said - just wet it with a garden hose

I asked for pictures of the process - if anonymity was an issue - I would photo-shop all the guys with Egyptian head dresses and robes

[Deleted]

Wow, this is similar to a red clay deposit near top end of NSW, where famous sun dried clay bricks were made. The fellow who showed us his house made of them, said the clay has unusually high tin in it, and the heavy clay naturally resists corrosion.. you don't have to compress it much. it is naturally a tough, fireproof brick. Any building from around 1940 with red brick, comes from this deposit. I normal brick weighs 7lb, this high tin brick weighs around 10lb, much more. So some who find the right clay proportions can make good bricks without much added to it, except water.

Thanks for showing the pictures and comments

[Dave]

I am a lab guy - For $165USD you can send 1 kilo of you soil to the Colorado School of Mines and they will alayze it for you. You will get a very nice looking scientific printout with lots of impressive vocabulary.

This is the testing procedure (very technical and complicated)
1- mix one kilo of your soil with 10 liters of water
2- mix it into suspension
3- pour 1 liter of this mixture into a tall glass tube
4- wait 24 hours

5- measure - gravel will settel to the bottom - dirt will settel ontop of it - clay will settel out near the top and above it is murkey water
The measurement is made with a tape measure - a simple ruler - % clay vrs total volume

You can do it with a glass jar anywhere

[Deleted]

Yeah, my soil is a clay loam in the A1 horizon and a clay in the B2 horizon. Might have some silt, but I doubt it, no sand, no pebbles of stones. Its about 1200 deep before you hit rock. The rock continues for about 25 metres and you hit two gravel streams of water under our place.

We have at least three different kinds of soil, some more clay than others. One patch is more friable and softer, and plants grow in it better. Most of Australia is granite, which is a crystal magma from the great flood washing over the land that was originally all under the sea. The land than rose out of the ocean mostly flat. Lots of devil marbles exist in the centre, showing the rolling nature of a great flood bashing and tumbling stones on the bottom of the seas rushing over and back.

I was taught clay contrasts sand in geology class, but Ii have since learned clay is more like a sponge. It soaks up water, and the plants drink from it, on the top, where the wet parts of the soil are. If Australian rains falls too quickly, which they do, the clay soaks a bit of the water, but most of the rain rushes into creeks and dams. You can add as much water to our clay as you like, the plants never get wet feet and thus die. Since the soil is over metre deep, to get this wet feet affect you would have to add 5,000 litres of water per cubic metres of soil, and of course we never do this, nor does the rain, so at best the soil is just a dry sponge, soaking a little rain, nothing like I was taught in my geology class. The clay behaves like a sand does. Most times we are adding just 1mm water or at best 100mm water to the soil, per cubic metre.
If your lucky to have clay soils that crack and self mulch, you have a really good structure for plants to grow in.

I normally mix a ball of soil in your hands and rub the mixture into a sausage through your two fingers, the length of the sausage before it cracks off, indicates the %clay, the sound of crunching the %sand, and the smooth silky feel the % silt. This procedure is very technical too

[Dave]

Nov 6, 2020 15:40:45 GMT -5 @robertt said:

I am getting ready to purchase off grid batteries.
I think the Nickel Iron batteries re the best, last 100 years , replace electrolyte every 10 years.
The 1000Amp hr 20 cells at 24 Volts should give me 12,000 Watt storage, and allow the running of 240Volt pumps up to 1000Watts running per hour every 24 hrs of the day.
What system do you use Dave, and any experiences appreciated?

I do have an opinion

Once before – I live solar for 10 years – with a package that had all the best technology
TRACE 12/2500 Grid tie inverter
Trace mppt 24/12 charger
And 16 Trojan L16 batteries

My impression after 10 years of use
It was complete overkill – wasted too much money – ended up using the generator anyway
After 10 years = $83 a month + all the gas I bought
(usually ran the generator 8 hours every Saturday while we did laundry – took care of the surge demand of the washer and ran the well pump)

Today – we are 5 years into a different system
Very different approach – the most expensive part in my system today = $175
Inverters – the Trace Inverter I had before did everything imaginable – endless menu
Today – I have two 2000 watt Glandville 12 volt inverters from Australia – each about $140
One is slaved to the house and one is slaved to the Kitchen bar (microwave / coffee pot / toaster over)
They are not – automatically on with demand – each is turned on and off manually as we use them

I have two 40 amp charge controllers – paired together – each about $175

Batteries – currently I have 6 105 amphr Golf Cart Batteries – dreaming of 6 more
Each cost $70 at WalMart / Sam’s Club

Why have I gone this way – REPLACEMENT COST

I just helped my neighbor carry 24 Trojan T105 batteries up from and replaced new down into his basement

That replacement cost = $$$$$$$$$$$$

I have 6 – 6volt 105amphr Golf Cart Batteries in one bank
I intend to have another 6 – in a separate bank one of these days
Replacement = only 6 batteries whenever necessary – one bank at a time

This is the latest trend in solar applications
no more than 6 6 volt batteries tied into a 12 volt bank
then these banks are parralled togeter into build the larger battery bank necessary for a home
staggering the purchanse of each bank = the need to replace only one bank at a time every few years vrs all of them at once

I know a lot of solar users here in Colorado
Battery life span is a text book myth – because we all abuse our systems
Any system that require additional electrolytes – all boil their water off and need venting –
16 venting batteries in a box = an explosion

My Golf cart batteries are AGM Gas Mat – no water added in 3 years –
They are not a stinky or as messy as my old L16s

I went for the cheapest – most replaceable – for the ease of maintenance later

If I was going for technology – I would order a Tesla Power Wall and wait for it
Virginia – This forum – put a Solar City package on her house in Phoenix Arizona
Her Power Wall is amazing –
She was paying between $200 and $300 a month for electricity
All electric house + air conditioning 24/7
Now she is locked into $126 a month for 12 years and two solar guys stop in for adjustments whenever the system calls them

You once called me a prepper – that is not exactly true
I think more of myself as an escaper – an escaper of the system
The only legally mandated financial obligations I have are Car Insurance and Property taxes

Maybe I was born in the wrong century
A true pioneer came west with nothing but what he could carry
Once to a piece of ground his own – he homesteaded
Started small – but kept building as he could
And when he was old – he could rest in the fruits of his life’s labor

Today – I have family that go from High School to College to $70K a year jobs
Within 60 days they have more than grandpa worked for all his life
Except they built nothing – they financed it and life is good till the money stops

One car accident – and it is all over
One divorce and it is ruined
One 3 month hospital stay – and you are debt slave with no home to return to

Be not of this world – for me – I try to escape the system

[Deleted]

Religious or not, many people are becoming preppers, and for good reason, the world is soon going to collapse, especially become locked down, with this virus pandemic, the money system will crash, a global reset is talked about, a Green Sabbath is spoken about, many people are fearful of spoiling the planet we live on.

So I am getting ready for the end of time. Like others are doing and already have done.

The biggest problem with living off grid is dealing with power storage at night. I have found the cheapest solution is to deal with hybrid solutions of 24Volt DC and 240 Volt AC.

I have the mind to design 12V DC water bore pump, on the solenoid principle, but not the time and engineering to make it, so for now I used a Marro 240Volt AC submersible pump at 29M Head, delivering 0.2 litres per second into our 8,000 litre tank. The pump is a low delivery because the bore stream is low, so takes 12 hours to fill the tank.
The pump uses 300Watts of power.

Next the water pressure pumps are set to keep water at 20MHead, and can deliver 2 to 3 hoses at a time, using around 500Watts of 240 AC power.

Next a fridge (we have both 24Volt DA fridge and a 240Volt AC fridge) use around 300Watts of power each hour through the night.

These are the only big items we use. Our house does not have air cons, or water heaters, bread toasters will be banned, and any appliance over 500Watts 240 AV also not used.

So all this adds to about 1000 watts during the night.

While on the grid our power bills range from 2 units per day to 3 units per day. And with air cons, we can use up to 12 units per day on average. A Unit of power is 1 KWH. And in Australia cost around 25 cents.

Going off grid completely is a massive lifestyle change, people have to get used to.

For instance you can't water as long and often as you like, I have limited the system to about 4,000 litres of water per day, but can do 8,000 on a stretch.

So this is an introduction.

Next let's talk about batteries.

I am leaning to the Nickel Iron batteries, while not as efficient, last for a hundred years whatever abuse you throw at it.

A 24 Volt system using L1000 (1000 Amp Hr) has 20 cells totalling 1.1 tonne when dry weight, has 12,000 watt storage and the ability to run 1000watts per hour every hour of the day.  I am planning using this bank with solar (8 panels giving 8 units of power per day, running 4 hours of solar per day) And consuming about 5 to 6 units of power per day. So I have some back up for cloudy days.

Will need to include a wind generator like Dave's, vertical is best, if you also built a head tank, use the tower to support a vertical wind generator.

The batteries alone cost about AUS 18,000. Including freight to our house from Victoria.

The other alternative is

These are Lithium Ion Polymer, guaranteed for 10 years in theory, but more likely after reading fine print for 5 yrs. It costs 2500 plus cabinet 800, about 3000 dollars AUS.

The maintenance cost of Nickel Iron is nil, but overall lasting 30 yrs is AUS 600 per year.

The maintenance cost of Lithium Polymer over 5 yrs, is AUS 500 per year.

However during end of time when shops are closed, you cannot buy replacement batteries. Today is the only chance you have for supplies.

[Dave]

Question - you speak of the need to run a 240 volt pump often - why

I think my neighbors would build around that
Neighbor Randy pumps a lot of water - 430 foot well that only gives up 1 gal a minute
My well before was 160 feet at 2.5 gals a min

I ran a 240 well pump once a week while using water for laundry
The generator carried the - SURGE DEMAND of the washer and the 240 volt pump filled our 1500 gal underground cystern

Most folk have a small trickel pump on their well slaved to a solar panel
They pump water from sun up till dark - at a trickel rate into a tank

Farmers here used to have a widmill that filled a tank for livestock
Today - all the windmills are replace with free standing single solar panels
From the tamk - they ration water out by other means - gravity - float valves - smaller less energy demanding pumps

There is no way my system could carry a 240 volt pump for long
I start to get cranky whenever my wife think every beverage requires time in the microwave
My kids make me a pot of coffee ONCE each morning - they fill my mug and my thermose

[Deleted]

I get crazy too Dave when wife waters too long. Or use electric toaster.

The water bore pump takes a long time to fill the tank, ready for gardens the next day, so has to fill at night, while we are asleep.

The fridge will need power at night.

The water pressure pump, has water controllers that turn on early morning watering our fruit trees, we have about 100 of them so far.

So these demand up to 1000 watts per hour right through the night.

Hope this helps
Shalom

[Dave]

The biggest problem with living off grid is dealing with power storage at night. I have found the cheapest solution is to deal with hybrid solutions of 24Volt DC and 240 Volt AC.

Correct storage at night – and for three days
We plan for three day total battery dependence
Storms – therefore cloud cover begins on day 1 – you are stuck at home on day 2 – on day 3 the sun reappears
The advantage we have at our location is that we are near a mountain pass
Not only does the road take the easiest route – so does the wind
6 mile East of me are 40 large grid tie windmills

Here it is either sunny – or windy

a Marro 240Volt AC submersible pump at 29M Head, delivering 0.2 litres per second into our 8,000 litre tank. The pump is a low delivery because the bore stream is low, so takes 12 hours to fill the tank.
The pump uses 300Watts of power.

My neighbors use - www.amazon.com/Pumplus-Submersible-Controller-Watering-Irrigation/dp/B08627XW9B/ref=asc_df_B08627XW9B/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=416806577476&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11351143277636092002&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1014485&hvtargid=pla-906419469355&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=99569067051&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=416806577476&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11351143277636092002&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1014485&hvtargid=pla-906419469355

Zero impact to the house hold power supply

Next the water pressure pumps are set to keep water at 20MHead, and can deliver 2 to 3 hoses at a time, using around 500Watts of 240 AC power.

I and all my neighbors use
www.amazon.com/Amarine-made-Automatic-Pressure-Diaphragm-Agricultural/dp/B071J858BK/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=12+volt+rv+water+pump+on+demand&qid=1604780016&s=lawn-garden&sr=1-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzR0E4R0daS1FGVFlaJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNzk0MTUwSktJVlNHWkpDRVNaJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAzNDgwMzIxMzdDRkNNRTlFUjVHJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Next a fridge (we have both 24Volt DA fridge and a 240Volt AC fridge) use around 300Watts of power each hour through the night.
At the first house with the bigger solar package – I had two
www.backwoodssolar.com/products/appliances/refrigerators-freezers/novakool-dc-refrigerator-model-3800
I built them in a cabinet and made the doors oppose – one was set absolute cold and one just cool

Today – we do not use a mechanical fridge – we have a root cellar – always at 52*F
And we have a large ice box – and even in mid-summer we are always only 25 miles away from snow 5 feet deep

Our house does not have air cons,

Here in this area – air con is usually called the basement
I have 12” dia flexible pipe at 20’ lengths
Once buried – with a squirrel vage fan I will move 52*F into our place

For now – we use a fan and two open windows at opposite ends of the house

water heaters
again – most of us here use some form of ON DEMAND propane heater
mine cost me $150 on Amazon – third year in use

any appliance over 500Watts 240 AV also not used.
Wrong thinking – not the way to count watts
I had a 700 watt Microwave on a 2000 watt inverter
But we always kept adding one more minute – and then another minute
700 x 3 = 2100 watts + three different surge demands on the system

Not at 1100 watts is only takes the first minute = 1100 watts and one surge demand

Last comment about solar packages that are too big
It is nice when you never have to worry about anything – just use and abuse

But – if you count you watts and understand you own usage – you can get by with must less

Storage – the biggest issue
Will my 6 golf cart batteries carry me entirely for three days? – NO!
Once in a while we fire up the generator – table saw – skill saw – 30 minute toaster oven baking
In a year – we have gone through 15 gallons of gas
So much cheaper overall than to buy many more batteries

[Deleted]

On another experience we have a AGM lead Acid battery in our toilet compost system, which drive a solar light and 12 V DC computer exhaust fan, running all day 24 hours for over 5 years non stop, removing sulphide odours from the loo.

The AGM 220 AmpHr battery is 5 years old, still running OK, while 95% fully charged all day and night.

SO I suspect if you arrange batteries to never go below 95% fully charged, the chemistry is preserved for a very long time?

Have you tried something like this Dave?

For my system this equates to 50 200amp hr batteries at 350 AUS each, 25 wired in parallel to two banks of 12 Volt, giving a 24V DC system with total storage of 5000 amphrs at 24 Volts, or 120 KW storage. And only removing 5% daily, a usable power of 6000 watts.

SO if you only remove 6 units of power daily, and replace it daily, the battery bank should stay at 95% fully charged, and last for over 10 years?? I dunno??

The cost is AUS 17500 dollars, about the same as the Nickel Iron system.

You mention replacing older banks in parallel to newer banks as a cheaper maintenance?

In this system replacing some batteries with old and some with new, a parallel system causes the new batteries to down grade to the older batteries, because the internal resistance is different. So you can't do such parallel replacements.

[Deleted]

Yeah you got me thinking Dave, cheaper options

Generator , wind generator, less battery bank.

I looked at your solar water pumps, yes this are great too.

I will consider these option too.

Thanks for the ideas.

Shalom

[Dave]

You mention replacing older banks in parallel to newer banks as a cheaper maintenance?

In this system replacing some batteries with old and some with new, a parallel system causes the new batteries to down grade to the older batteries, because the internal resistance is different. So you can't do such parallel replacements.

Life experience says otherwise – Tesla says otherwise

Why does a battery bank fail – 100% of the time is in one bad cell that retards all the batteries in parallel with it

If you remove that one cell in time the others are not damaged
By isolating each bank to a group of 6 – only the 6 in that bank are damaged

Tesla Powerwall = $1689.00 USD – from Alibaba China
www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Greensun-LiFePO4-power-wall-lithium-battery_62257342121.html?mark=google_shopping&src=sem_ggl&mark=shopping&cmpgn=1674923663&adgrp=67939112314&locintrst=&locphyscl=1014485&ntwrk=g&device=c&dvcmdl=&position=&pla_adtype=pla&pla_mrctid=254552069&pla_channel=online&pla_prdid=62257342121&pla_country=US&pla_lang=en&pla_group=293946777986&pla_localcode=&gclid=CjwKCAiAqJn9BRB0EiwAJ1SztZjrUzjUxOtVM0YmNkYcD_U3wCmg8xIraxV8wa0yUd_yfEYMK-TWHRoCiJYQAvD_BwE#shopping-ads

(Tesla web site) Powerwall can be mounted seamlessly on a wall or on the ground, indoors or outdoors. Each Tesla Powerwall consists of a lithium-ion battery pack (14 kWh), a liquid thermal control system, an integrated inverter, and carefully designed software that dispatches electricity when it’s needed most.

Tesla Powerwall – no money down – easy payment plan
www.gocamsolar.com/solar-battery-tesla-powerwall?source_network=&gclid=CjwKCAiAqJn9BRB0EiwAJ1SzteudK5-RJmnMjnxG59TBusRnbHg7cjcfWqIc10aTpu4Kh7m04Lv6cRoCwRYQAvD_BwE

The cost is AUS 17500 dollars, about the same as the Nickel Iron system.
total storage of 5000 amphrs at 24 Volts

One tesla Powerwall = 14 kilowatts = 14,0000 watt total storage for $12,500 Australian dollars installed by Tesla
www.tesla.com/en_au/powerwall?redirect=no

www.aliexpress.com/item/4001323355770.html?src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=494-037-6276&isdl=y&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&aff_platform=google&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&&albagn=888888&albcp=11491261337&albag=111738685669&trgt=708011819900&crea=en4001323355770&netw=u&device=c&albpg=708011819900&albpd=en4001323355770&gclid=CjwKCAiAqJn9BRB0EiwAJ1SztZ-KFiuGZdi_XJC1feDxLrhy5p1Iz2EqAX8kwOyGnL3GV86-lkwewBoCY7UQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

AU $5,434.45AU - $5,720.47-5%
Quantity: 1

Additional 5% off (5 pieces or more)
1000 pieces available
Shipping: AU $1,456.98
to Australia via China Post Air Parcel
Estimated Delivery: 23-49 days

There is no comparison

Tesla's new 46/80 battery is going to change the world

[Dave]

Why do batteries go bad – dendrite formation
Liquid batteries are the worse
AGM batteries better
DRY batteries – the best

But dry batteries are limited to size

Each AA battery is one long roll of a three layer film – cathode/separator/anode
Made in a wet process – each layer is sprayed
An AA battery film can be 7 meters long with a cathode tab at one end and an anode tab at the other
Each electron must travel the 7 meter distance – this is why dry batteries get hot
This is also why dry batteries are limited – heat impairs impedance

Tesla’s new 46/80 battery is a dry battery –
Each layer is sprinkled as a power by harmonic vibration
with 1300 independent film layers – each with a tab at the top and bottom
Each electron only has to travel 80 mm

Then with his car battery – he eliminated the cathode and anode ends of each cell
The entire top of the battery box = the cathode for all cells
The entire bottom of the battery box become the anode for all the cells –
The entire bottom of the battery box is also a liquid filled heat exchanger

The entire sandwich become one large battery –
All the automotive experts say – this move alone eliminated over 3000 individual parts

Battery Day 9/22/2020 = CHANGES EVERYTHING! – so why was it a flat presentation and the stock market disappointed

I believe it was by agreement with the US Government
Ford and Chevy and Oil employ ½ of the country
Ford and Chevy are so close to bankruptcy AGAIN

Tesla Battery Day – was a three year warning – to prepare for a change

Now apply this to Australia’s Tesla Battery – bank – a 100% success in every way possible
You live there am I wrong?

Now apply this to the delivery industry – all those delivery vans – soon to be electric
All those police cars soon to be electric

www.thedrive.com/news/34494/how-a-tesla-model-3-patrol-car-is-saving-this-police-department-thousands-of-dollars
The department estimates that each of its Dodge Charger cruisers cost taxpayers an estimated $7,545 per year in fuel and oil changes. Meanwhile, the Model 3, which has a maximum range of 250 miles per charge, costs the department around $1,728 per year in electricity to operate—a savings of 77 percent annually.

Tesla’s new one piece battery

Imagine vehicles that are in service 24/7
Police – fire – rescue – delivery – taxies – busses – long haul trucking
Pull into a quickie mart – Jiffy Lube / Quick Lube – drive through
Just swap out the single battery unit from underneath
Trucks and vans charged or swapped while at the dock being loaded

All of these vehicles will be electric soon – asap – to save money

So many jobs – complete industries – will fade away

I am not sure of your age and skill set – but being an independent solar installer in Australia is going to be a billion dollar industry

The dream is – it will move society to Tesla roof panels and solar with wind
Not coal – or nuclear power

[Dave]

How to isolate battery banks
Most of these products are for marine use – RV use – or Tesla PowerWalls

When charging – all batteries banks are charged as one large battery bank
But when not in charge mode – each bank is disconnected from the other

This disconnect is programmable
Say use battery bank A today and bank B tomorrow on a cycle
And both whenever needed

shop.pkys.com/relays-solenoids-and-combiners
This site has a short video explaining their device

www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_pVWlJx5-o
is about the very same product

Neighbor has 24 Trojan T105 batteries
used to be 12 in a bank tied together - as you designed
now 4 banks of 6 - isolated from one another
each monitored - as to voltage per bank

He has them all in parallel - all charge and all supply
except - any 6 battery bank that under perfoms disconnects -
shows up on the monitor
and he can address any battery issue as it begins

shop.pkys.com/Battery-Protects

It is most economical to have several smaller isolated battery banks
The electronics are < $100

[Dave]

Refrigerators

I understand how people today are addicted to this appliance
I grew up in Amish country – none of them have an electric fridge

But the last time I owned a traditional modern type fridge was 1998
Now I live in an area where the GRID is not even available

The Amish and many of my neighbors use LP (propane) refrigerators and freezers
They look and feel just like any new appliance – but they run on gas
Modern – Bezo Spark replacing pilot lites

This is off grid – but still in system – always having to buy gas

We use LP (propane) for the kitchen stove and for two 16,000 btu RV 12 volt furnaces
We have one furnace at each end of the house
And we have a LP (propane) on-demand water heater
We also have several - 100lbs propane tanks – that we fill in the summer when gas prices are low
Because of America’s new found fracking – gas is the cheapest I have ever known
No matter how deep the snow – all I have to do is change tanks
It is cold here – the furnace runs October to April
And we use about 450lbs a year – about 115 gallons at $2.10 /gal this summer

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Just watched - youtu.be/gnWXU-d51vU
Consumer review of his 6cuft LP (propane) / 110 electric Freezer
10gals of gas over 26 days at -6*F = about $0.80 a day for gas

If I went that route – I would have a small LP Freezer – and use it to freeze ice from an icebox

This is what we do – sort of –
We buy water by the gallon- so we always have many 1 gal plastic jugs
We stick some in a snow bank – and they freeze
Once you get above 9000’ on the north side – we still have snow
The snow plow – plows the same mountain road over and over
By spring – there is always a huge pile of HARD PACK – that just refuses to melt

Where we live – there are miles and miles of winding empty mountain roads
and of course - much of the time between October and April - they just freeze anywhere
We keep 3-6 frozen gals of water – in our ice box
Total build of the chest = $250 in insulation

YES! We live a very weird life style – back in my home area of Northern Indiana - between Chicago and Cleveland – I stood out like a real Grizzly Adams – my neighbors in Westcliffe Colorado – called me Indiana Jones – Finally here in Walsenburg / Trinidad Colorado I FIT RIGHT IN

Baking – the hidden ghost power demand
Most people here think they are energy efficient by having a gas stove
Then they bake cookies

Most – low end gas stoves for home use – have a 1500 watt glow stick as a pilot lite in the oven
If you are counting your watts – buy a special order stove – with a bezo spark pilot lite

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