Alternative Energies

[Dave]

Just reading some things on Ni-Fe and the task is a steep curve. The voltages do not line up with lead acid, so I have to adjust some things. Getting experience is hard when you have none.

What I know of batteries – I am stupid – I have also read some literature
After 15 years of living solar – and meeting solar neighbors –
I have even helped a few times – as in carrying panels and batteries – standing up on the ladder
All of it comes with conversation

My opinion
I drive a chevy – it is just a standard average car
My impression of $100,000 cars is why? I could care less if my new car goes 0 to 60 into 10 seconds. I could care less if the speedometer goes all the way up to 160mph.
We have a 2003vt Suburban
Five years of living in the mud and snow – dogs and feed for the animals – lumber – bricks –
Any $100,000 car would be just a dirty as ours

Batteries – I have the cheapest – most accessible batteries – I could locate
Trojan GL70s 105amp/hr (I think they are called) = $70 each from Sam’s Club

I live in the sun at 8000 feet elevation – my batteries ate 100% full charge each morning by 10am
I only have enough storage to make it through the night – the second night we began to watch our watts
All day long we run off the panels – (truth usually 6-8 hrs of 14hrs of daylight)
The batteries do not discharge until dark

You spoke once of keeping your batteries 95% full at all times
It felt wrong then and I don’t keep my batteries full – I discharge them 60-80% each night
They are DEEP CYCLE batteries and designed to run a golf cart until it slows to a stop then recharge

The new electric cars – their hand books suggest 80%-20% operational range

Deep Cycle batteries are rated in cycles – how many time with it deep cycle
A rating of 3000 cycles = 8.2 years of continuous use

Take the example of a laptop battery
If you have it plugged in at the house 100% of the time
When you unplug it – the battery does not last long at all
Eventually – the battery won’t even charge

One fellow found NaOH was better than straight KOH, as electrolyte? Hmm?
COOL – Salt Water Batteries are a big topic here
Very simple designs – salt water as the electrolyte

The downside = They are large and heavy – I mean big as a man
They are also designed to have replaceable plates at some point in the future

Which is another reason I have the closest available
Shipping batteries – is stupidly expensive
Driving to pick them up might be a nice road trip
But – in the future – replacements will also be far away

In Colorado – it is solar country – therefore 50 miles north in Pueblo – or 75 miles west in Alamosa are battery outlets

Personally – every system I know of uses Trojan T105

Sounds like I need two main fuses one for +ve and one for -ve.
Never heard of anyone with fuses on the negative side

I also have to bolt the wires diagonally across the battery bank rails.
Use a short a lead as possible and make them big, say 35mm2.

Wire – I went to a tractor supply store and bought a 25 foot #02 gauge Jumper cable ($49.95)

What's you advice to making 4 leads soldered into one lug, rather than 4 lugs bolted together, ie voltage drops.

4 leads soldered into one lug?
I cut my own wire and crimped the lugs – I crimped them with a big hammer
It all must be smashed together – any air pockets – will turn green over time and cause you grief
I then sprayed them with a Teflon covering – it paints an air tight seal – designed for battery terminals
Then I Heat shrinked them – with a blow dryer

Then each lug is tied together at a bus bar –
Soldiered connections are difficult to repair / replace / move around / remodel

Should you solder each of place them bare in Inverters, have you used ferrules?
Depends on the device my solar charge controllers are made to receive bare wire and screwed tight with a set screw
My inverters had posts to mount to

The RCD is not for my installation safety, I plan to place all 2.5mm2 twin and earth wires in conduit all the way, above ground in for safety reason from power room to house, and only 4 power points, with 4 wires only, one for each power point. And from 4 inverters too. But the RCD is to protect the user from faulty appliances, eg, washing machines that are wet, wet fingers switching on or off, etc.

Do you have RCB on your circuits?
NO – and because of you keep asking – I am curious are you using aluminum wire
DON’T

Aluminum and copper expand and contract at different rates – and need protection
Stay copper on copper in a 3 wire scheme – this doesn’t happen

We do not have RCD we have GFI – but only in wet areas
all other faults will ground on the third wire
only water will leach the leak out of the recept to you

I have none – because I have no electricity in the wet areas
Bathroom as it own solar lights – made to be place in your yard – one small panel with four lights on a string. – Our bathroom light is on or off all on its own

My kitchen appliance is not on the same counter as the wet area

I notice Victron Inverters can be programmed for different voltages...hmm?

My girls are watching a move that I could miss – so I’ll tell you this
I am a Tesla Fan – I am a Solar City fan – I am a SpaceX fan
So I guess I am a Elon Musk Fan

Why am I interested – it seems to be the future all us Star Trex fans thought we would have by now
I am interested – because reaching for the Moon and Mars seems to be the future all us Star Trex fans thought we would have by now

I am a student of History and psychology

Tesla cars + the new Tesla batteries + Tesla Power Walls + Tesla Battery Farms = a complete power company – that will replace the traditional grid

Just read an article – (I am making up the numbers for simplicity)
US power demand = 2000MG/kw/hrs per day
2000MG/kw/hrs = 5 million Tesla cars

Right now you can plug a Tesla car into your house and power a modern American home for 3 days
Drive the car to town and charge at a Tesla Super Center for 30 minutes
Drive home and have power again for three days

Right now – every Tesla car = 4 to 5 Tesla Power walls on wheels

The end goal / the end game

We all charge our cars at Tesla – at Solar City solar panel charging centers
We all charge our home Power Walls at home – with Solar City solar panels
We all – always have our cars plugged into our homes – to stabilize /balance the whole system

This makes Tesla the Power King while ending all coal / nuclear power plants

The only way it works – is if every car is plugged in

How can Tesla make everybody plug in their cars

First – undercut the market – kill Ford, Chevy, and Chrysler
$25,000 new tesla car coming

Second – perfect self-driving cars
Third – offer Tesla Robo Taxis
Think of it – don’t need a garage – no matianance – no gas station stops – no insurance
If you need a personal car – a sports car might show up
If you need to take a party of 12 to dinner – a van shows up
If you want to go to the lumber yard – a truck shows up
If the car breaks down – it is not yours – a new one comes to finish your trip

Then – make their cars so expensive that no one can afford one
Forcing the transition to Robo Taxis

Tesla would be the master of all transportation and power utilities

All – less than 10 years away

[Dillon]

Do you remember a guy named Dale Gardner. He was with us when we all went to Cresta Butte. He has a garage full of old car batteries. He gets them for nothing and says he reconditions them. Have you heard of this on a large scale?
I think he adds his batteries together to make a large voltage. Then reduces it to get the same wattage. His garage is a battery mess and smells like one too, but it seems to work.

www.totalcardiagnostics.com/learn/recondition-car-battery/
Reasons why you should learn Reconditioning batteries
With an increased demand and supply for batteries in professional and personal front, reconditioning battery is one skill that would never go waste. Why not learn it when it serves our purpose to earn extra bucks and make our planet habitable. In case you are worried about your safety, be at ease. If the technique is properly learnt, it is quite safe.
You practically get your old/dead batteries for free! You see, safe disposal is top priority, and many seemingly dead batteries are getting prepared for a new life, and you can help them ease the passage.

old-battery-reconditioning
Batteries cost a fortune, and you are saving a hefty sum if you simply recondition it instead of buying another one.
If you want to go green and save environment while working on renewable energy resources, this is a good opportunity. Not only you learn a skill that will be highly coveted in future, but you can also earn some extra cash for other pursuits.

When Eric and Jill built their house, the installer used Decka Solar Batteries. All of them were replaced only four years in. Not sure why.
We both have Trojan L16 now

Jill has a Model S and she charges her house with it now. She always comes home with a full charge and dumps 50% of it into her house. She has over 300,000miles on her car without issue. Except for tires. It is hard to find a heavier tire that still fit on 17” rims and also fits inside the wheel well. She loves her car and uses the auto-pilot option all the time. There is a camera that watches you. Her hands must be on the wheel and her eyes forward, or the auto-pilot with shut off. She sends her love

Have you ever heard of infrared solar panels that make electricity from heat?

[Dave]

Dale Gardner – X-Ray tech – right?

I think he adds his batteries together to make a large voltage. Then reduces it to get the same wattage. His garage is a battery mess and smells like one too, but it seems to work.

Again – it is how participation you demand of yourself
I get it – a bad 12v battery is bad because it had a dead cell
Or – it is tired and wore out

If it is a dead cell – you are done – but if it is old and tired it does work to a point

In a liquid battery – the worst type – no matter the liquid

Think of the electron striking the anode = a mini ark weld – there is damage to the surface of the anode. Little mountains grow – called dendrites

In the beginning – you have 100% of the surface of the anode for electrons to bombard
Over time as dendrites grow – they ruin the surface of the anode
Over tine only 80% - then 75% - then 60% of the surface area is available for use
This is how all batteries TIRE

If the dendrites touch the cathode = DEAD CELL

Reconditioning – as the image relates = high energy charge pulses
Charging runs the electron backward through your battery – anode to cathode
By zapping the battery – you shake things up – loosen things up
Then drive them back to where they came from
Healing the surface of the anode – returning unavailable surface are to use

It is a mess – it requires a larger energy source – you boil and gas the batteries like crazy

His garage is a battery mess and smells like one too, but it seems to work.

A bad / tired 12v battery can still deliver voltage – just cannot maintain 12.2v
At 10.2v the amperage required to maintain wattage draw is harmful to your electronics

But even at 10.2v - ten of them in a series = 102v
102v at 1 amp = 102 watts = 8.5 amp at 12v

We both have Trojan L16 now
I also had Trojan L16 in Westcliffe

Jill sends her love
Has she remarried?

Have you ever heard of infrared solar panels that make electricity from heat?
Yes! – back in 1999 – I took Judy to Backwoods Solar in Sandpoint Idaho
He had an infra-red panel on his gas stove – but I have never seen one for sale

[Deleted]

Thanks gentlemen for so nice posts and interesting remarks.

Some new updates from others regarding my Ni-Fe system, 500 amp hr, 24volt, 12,000 watt storage bank.

They say I need 5,000 watts of solar panels and a charging up to 50amps is OK.

Wow, I only have 1600 watts so far. Need to buy more.

A Ground Fault Detector is the same as a Residual Circuit Detector. Just different name.

My reason for buying a AUS9,000 bank of batteries, is I never need replace them ever again.

Say after 20 years of batteries, AGM yearly cost is 800 per yr. For 20 yrs of Ni-Fe is 465 per yr. This assume AGM last 10 yrs and need replacing twice in 20 yrs. The Ni-Fe need only an electrolyte replacement of 300 dollars. So Ni-Fe is cheaper and more reliable.

Like the idea of using old batteries.

If you have 40 truck batteries at 200amp when new, now only 10amp hr when old, wired in series,
you have 40x12 = 480VDC system with 10amp hr, the energy stored is 4800 watts.

Hook up 100 batteries and you have 1200Volts DC and 12,000 watts store, the same as my 9000 dollar system but it cost you only 500 dollars, and should last 20 yrs.

If your good at tinkering, you built a custom controller, or manually charge and discharge.
While dangerous, would work very well.

SHalom

[Dave]

I have been hard on you lately – but I do it as a friend

They say I need 5,000 watts of solar panels and a charging up to 50amps is OK.
Wow, I only have 1600 watts so far. Need to buy more.

Opinion #1 if you invest $$$$$$ now – you mandate $$$$$$$ repair / maintenance cost later

Opinion #2 There is no such thing as a system that last forever
Things break – God breaks things all the time

A 30mph wind will smash a solar panel with a flying 5 gallon bucket – I know this to be true
BUGs kill electronics all the time – google it
I guarantee you will find a story of cockroaches shorting out electronics

Not sure about Australia – but here – we have tornados – hails storms-dusts storms
Not sure about Australia – but here in the land of freedom – some folk take this as the right to an ass hole

Kids near here were just arrested for driving around smashing mail boxes
30 yrs ago – an in-law of an in-law went to jail because he and some ‘guys’ drove around until dogs ran out to the road – then they would shot the dog

I live in America – the police were called each and every time – these three kids made all the news
I live in America – how did they get caught? – Somebody shot back and put a bullet hole in their car.

Poor Virginia - This Froum - I bought sereral months of MREs (Military "Meal Ready to Eat" - 25yr life span) - she thought of buying so also - but she is elderly and live in a big city. If she has food the mob will just come take it.

As a Christian brother – I want to share

Not storing our treasure here – vrs being prepaid – being a prepper for the end times
I walk this thin line as well so I don’t necessarily prep for the end-times – they may be a long time off - no one knows but the father - I feel it close - but so have many others through history

Instead I prepare this place for my children
I am not going to take it with me – I will surely leave it behind for them

Next April 2021 when they are both 16 and above – this land is transferred to them – their name
They will always have a roof that is paid for – and functional
This place is built of 4 8’x20’ metal shipping containers – it better last – be durable
And this place is designed to operate on the cheap

Kids are taught in economoc class to dedicate 1/3 of you cash flow to housing
Then the American life style = find a house 3 times more than you can afford and get a mortage
Some say home ownership has maintance issies - they prefer Town Houses - Apartments - Condos

Mortgage / Lease / Rent - Get it- 1/3rd of your cash flow dedicated - out of your pocket

We only have 3 acers - but it is next to tousands of square miles of BLM (Bureau of Land Management) - Land that is technically owned by the US Governemnt
WE spend 1/3rd of our money here -
right now everytime I go to Pueblo I bring home 20 large pave stones
The patio gets bigger with each trip

Then the American life style says - now I can adord to FINANCE a really nice car
An internet subscription - and electric subsription
and by law it must all come with an Insurabce subscription

and all is well - they still have 10% of what they earn to play with

Opinion #1 if you invest $$$$$$ now – you mandate $$$$$$$ repair / maintenance cost later

Opinion #2 There is no such thing as a system that last forever
Things break – God breaks things all the time

All it takes is one car accident - one heart attack - one kidney cancer, prostate cancer, throat cancer, or melanoma

AND EVERYTHING CHANGES
This is my prep - this is why I am a prepper
These days there are a rash of beggers at the intersections
Everyone of them would think our place a palace

My Granadparents grew up think caol and steem was the power - or sailing ships at sea
My parents thought oil was power - went to the moon - and developed a nuclear bomb

(W.C Fields) - an American vaudville commedian of the 1930s and 40s
"The only thing that remain the same is change"

Property tax for 3 acres = $35 a year
Energy cost here- $500 a year – which could be replaced with wood heat (outdoor boiler)
And we buy drinking water – $5-6 a week - because we do roof capture instead of a well
This also could be replace with a filtration system

Personal Confession - I hate home laundry
My first home was a mobile home – where is the laundry – bathroom or hall way
24/7 those areas are always a mess – piles – some wet – some dirty
Where are my favorite blue genes I would as my first wife – she would say check the dryer
And there they are – 2 days wet

Once I built my house in Westcliffe – I had a nice 15 gal MayTag Upright and (LP) Gas Dryer
To use it often was a battery drain to the point that my system would not carry the surge demand of the washer when it was full of water
Also – we pumped water into a cistern and it always seem to be empty

Solution at the time – We ran the generator all day – one day a week
The generator was slaved to a 240v deep well pump and passed through our inverter
We did the laundry – and when we were done the batteries were equalized and full – the cistern was full – and all the laundry put away

Truthfully – once we started doing this – our solar battery system seem new all over and life was manageable on our schedule

I sold the house in 2010 – my family and I were traveling from lab to lab with dot.gov
Sometimes our lodging had laundry and most of the times not (hotels)

Currently – we go to our favorite laundry mat – once a month – or every three weeks
And spend 3hrs and $50 –
Dad is an expert at basket carrying and filling washers – adding quarters – then run around town – shopping – hardware – lumber – feed store – but I always return with KFC (Kentucky Fried Chicken)

[Deleted]

D"I live in America – how did they get caught? – Somebody shot back and put a bullet hole in their car.

R I guess we do our best, and GOD does the rest.

D: "We only have 3 acres
R we have 10 acres, just grows dead grass. very hot here

Have planted 150 fruit trees and intend to build a 7000 dollar wire screen over them to keep birds out, etc, even hail.

D: "Opinion #1 if you invest $$$$$$ now – you mandate $$$$$$$ repair / maintenance cost later

Opinion #2 There is no such thing as a system that last forever
Things break – God breaks things all the time
R true, but as we support GOD, God will support us, we do the best we can, liike Zediarhah did.

D" Truthfully – once we started doing this – our solar battery system seem new all over and life was manageable on our schedule
R nice

Blessings seem good when they are gone and come back

Nice taking with you Dave:
Shalom

[Dave]

Nov 18, 2020 14:15:31 GMT -5 @robertt said:

Opinion #2 There is no such thing as a system that last forever
Things break – God breaks things all the time
R true, but as we support GOD, God will support us, we do the best we can,

Really? - ask Job if this is true
He lost everything becaue he was righteous
Name me one disciple of Christ that was not put to death

[Deleted]

Have you not heard of the 144,000 that stand during the national Sunday law crisis and are kept alive as special tokens of witness to oppose the Opposer at the end of time?

The three friends of Daniel did not fall in affliction.

D Name me one disciple of Christ that was not put to death

R John died naturally. He could not be killed, God stopped this.

Shalom

[Dave]

Source 1
Mark's Gospel hints of John's martyrdom, but his death as a martyr is unknown.

Source 2
Question: How did the apostle John die? When was his death? Did he pass away in Asia Minor?
Answer: The Bible is silent regarding when or how John died. Information regarding his last days comes to us primarily from tradition. The 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia, in an article about his life, states that writers in the second and third centuries A.D. accepted a widely held tradition that the apostle spent his last days in Ephesus.

Well Robert - if Roman tradition says it - it must be true
All Catholics believe this

[Deleted]

I quote: "

The longstanding view of John bar Zebedee's life was that he authored at least five texts (the Fourth Gospel, the three Johannine letters, and the Revelation), mentored the likes of Papias, Ignatius, and Polycarp, opposed heresiarch Cerinthus, was miraculously protected from harm when dipped in oil by the Romans before being (temporarily?) exiled to Patmos, before finally dying peacefully of old age in the 90s or early 100s.
This led to my puzzlement when I read the following dialogue in Mark 10.35-40:
James and John, the sons of Zebedee, came forward to him and said to him, ‘Teacher, we want you to do for us whatever we ask of you.’
And he said to them, ‘What is it you want me to do for you?’
And they said to him, ‘Grant us to sit, one at your right hand and one at your left, in your glory.’
But Jesus said to them, ‘You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I drink, or be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?’
They replied, ‘We are able.’
Then Jesus said to them, ‘The cup that I drink you will drink; and with the baptism with which I am baptized, you will be baptized; but to sit at my right hand or at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared.’
Jesus tells James and John they will drink the same 'cup' that Jesus will drink.
The 'cup' Jesus drinks is mentioned again in Mark 14.36, when Jesus prays in Gethsemane:
He said, ‘Abba, Father, for you all things are possible; remove this cup from me; yet, not what I want, but what you want.’
By any appearance, the 'cup' Jesus drinks is his death as a martyr.
I've read Mark 10.35-40 many times, but one day the full implication suddenly clicked: If Mark 14 really does present the 'cup' as death by martyrdom, then it follows that Jesus was predicting James and John would also be killed as martyrs.
Acts 12 briefly describes the death of James by the year of AD 44 (Herod Agrippa, who ordered James' death, dies later in the chapter). John is not mentioned in Acts after his brother's death, though Paul in Galatians 2.1-10 seems to indicate John was present at the 'council of Jerusalem', circa AD 50, which is depicted in Acts 15.
Despite this, there seems to be a completely separate tradition that dominated Christian literature from the second century onward, that John bar Zebedee never was killed as a martyr.
Outside of Mark 10.35-40 (and Matthew's parallel), are there any ancient references to John suffering death by persecutors, not just a divinely nullified attempt at killing him, followed by exile? Did any ancient writers seek to harmonize the apparent contradiction?

Answers I quote: " 1

This question was researched by George Foxe, in Foxe's Book of Martyr's, who could find no historical authenticity to the many legends surrounding the Apostle John. Foxe states that John died at about the age of 120 (which is quite plausible, there are usually a handful of people of that age upon earth, at any one time) but with no indication of a violent death.
Wikipedia : Foxe's Book of Martyrs

James was executed by Herod and John was exiled in the reign of Domitian, who was Emperor from 81-96 AD, and probably during Nerva's reign also, 96-98 AD, so both brothers drank of the cup of persecution, indeed.
And all who will follow Jesus Christ shall be baptised in a baptism that crucifies them to the world, Galatians 6:14.

Answers I quote: " 2

A fine question! I have not bumped into any notion or tradition about John the Evangelist's martyr's death. He was, according to a hagiographical narrative I know about him, tortured, put to a boiling water etc. but not killed.
Yet, Jesus' words are so enigmatic; when saying "bread", he means sometimes bread(Matt. 12:4), sometimes "teaching" (Matt. 16:6), sometimes "Himself" (John 6:51); when saying "water", he means sometimes water (John 4:7), sometimes the "alleviation of pangs of conscience" (Luke 16:24), sometimes the Holy Spirit (John 7:38); when saying "stone", he means sometimes stone (John 8:7), sometimes the "pagan nations" (Matt. 3:9), sometimes the "faith in his divinity" (Matt. 16:18); when saying "oil", he means sometimes oil (Mark 14:8), sometimes the "mercy of God's Son towards humanity" (Luke 10:34), sometimes "divine mercy gathered in human heart as the 'ticket' to eternity" (Matt. 25:4); when He says "life", he means sometimes life (John 15:13), sometimes "eternal salvation" (Matt. 18:8); therefore, it is not at all necessary that in the "cup" He meant exactly the same in both cases; it is not even clear when He said "take away from me this cup", He meant the death on the Cross, or only that - I believe, He meant primarily that, but could not He also mean the pain for being rejected even by His beloved disciples? or the pain for Judas' not believing and not relying in His all-forgiveness and committing suicide in a foolish despair? or the pain of burdening His beloved Israelites with the horrible guilt of murdering the one who loved them more than His own life and showed them in deed innumerable benevolences?
In Luke 12:50, He says, that He is so exceedingly constrained (συνέχομαι) until He receives the Baptism that is prepared to Him; what does He mean? Since before this phrase He utters the similar phrase where He says how He wants (θέλω) the fire to be already (ἤδη) kindled (12:49), then it might be that He means that He is constrained for longing exceedingly for, but as yet not having, or not having already, the accomplishment of the deed of the salvation of mankind. Thus, if this interpretation is permitted, then He both longs for that Baptism/Cup, and is dreaded by it. A mysterious, utterly difficult dialectics between His divinity and humanity, as one and the same cup can both be longed for and dreaded.
Thus, cup can be interpreted also from this lighter side - as something desirable, as both bringing in (on the part of the Son of God) salvation and (on the part of His followers, the objects of this bringing in) participation in salvation; thus, "you will drink my cup" can mean, you will become as myself, desiring to love others so much, as to be ready to die for them, as I do (John 15:12) and salvation is nothing else but presence of love of suchlike intensity in your hearts. Thus, saying " you will drink my cup", He could imply them losing their lives in a metaphorical sense, as losing their self-love for others, as dying for this world in order to take their cross and follow Him (Matt. 16:25), as hating their lives and losing them metaphorically in this world, in order to preserve it for the eternal life (John 12:25), dying for their stupid and coarse, self-flattering desire of becoming chief ministers in Jesus', as they thought, earthly kingdom (Matt.20:21). To make the point, which is already made, just a tiny bit clearer: one medieval Sufi mystic poet has a line: "O, cupbearer, give us, Sufis, wine, but wine of Spirit, not of grapes": thus, also here, the drinking the cup, can mean partaking in Spiritual wisdom that the only Kingdom to be desirous of is the Heavenly Kingdom, which is nothing else than the presence of unconditional divine love in one's heart, of the new commandment of loving others not like oneself, as in the older commandment, but as Jesus (John 15:12), that is to say, more than oneself, for Jesus loved disciples more than Himself giving His life for them, and for all mankind.
Thus, it is not necessarily a contradiction given the enigmatic and deeply metaphoric character of Jesus' sayings, for as both "dying" and "getting born" are used not only in a direct sense, but also metaphorically in Gospels, so much so the "cup", which is a metaphor for something that can itself be a metaphor (i.e. death).
But it is interesting, for since the "cup" in both instances so likely invites for giving them the equal semantics of a literal death, were there some apocryphal traditions that made an effort to reconcile this contradiction and make Jesus' prediction, so to say, congruous to the history, since it could be seen as a necessary contradiction, and quite mistakingly so?

Answers I quote: " 3

According to the written tradition of the eastern Church (I don't know about the west), John was, in fact, the only Apostle not to suffer martyrdom. According to the Eastern Orthodox Synaxaria1, he was exiled for a time on the island of Patmos, where he is believed to have written the Book of Revelation, but eventually made his way to Ephesus where he lived for several years before dying a natural death at the age of 105. During his lifetime - again, according to the Synaxaria - he experienced a number of severe trials and privations.
Assuming the events chronicled in Church tradition are true, this would suggest that Jesus was not speaking exclusively about martyrdom in Mark 10:35-40 (and Matthew 20:20-23), but rather the general suffering of trials the Apostles would experience.

Answers I quote: " 4

George the Sinner and Philip of Side, citing Papias, claim a death for both John and James at the hands of their fellow Jews. Lots of folks have lots of reasons why George and Philip are mistaken, usually boiling down to George got that info from Philip and Philip was confused.
I think the tradition of a long life for John developed to permit the assignment of Revelation to the apostle's hand and is as errant as that assignment. In Mark, Jesus predicts his own death and in the next breath says the two brothers will drink from the same cup. And later he asks for the Father to "take this cup from me" when contemplating his passion.
How would a reader who is not aware of John's supposed peaceful death in old age likely take these passages? I submit just as they likely were intended -- as a prediction of martyrdom for the brothers.
I also suspect both brothers had suffered that fate by the time of Mark's writing in the 70's and the author used that story as evidence of Jesus' prescience.
Are there problems with my view? Yes. Did Papias also claim he knew John? Depends on how you interpret a passage Eusebius quotes from him about the apostles. It's a difficult passage to parse. And if he died before the 70's, did he die with James or later? If he died with James, attending the Council of Jerusalem would have been difficult.

Answers I quote: "5

Lots of people thought John would not die, because of the misreading of Jesus’ statement to Peter at the end of The Gospel of John “if I want him to remain alive until I come, what is that to you?” (John 21:22).
So much did that statement get twisted that John, who always bore witness to the Truth, corrects it in writing, and then reiterated what is written to correct the idle and idolatrous notions of mankind (which are naturally inclined to superstitions prior to regeneration and renewing of the mind according to the Truth).
I think this lends to the undoing of Jesus’ prophecy that quite literally means James and John would both be martyred. I give as much weight to traditional legends as feathers when compared to Scripture.
“Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were younger, you used to gird yourself and walk wherever you wished; but when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands and someone else will gird you, and bring you where you do not wish to go. ”
Now this He said, signifying by what kind of death he would glorify God. And when He had spoken this, He *said to him, “Follow Me!” Peter, turning around, *saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them; the one who also had leaned back on His bosom at the supper and said, “Lord, who is the one who betrays You?” So Peter seeing him *said to Jesus, “Lord, and what about this man?” Jesus *said to him, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!” Therefore this saying went out among the brethren that that disciple would not die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but only, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?” This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and wrote these things, and we know that his testimony is true.”John 21:18-24
www.bible.com/100/jhn.21.18-24.nasb
(Jesus did not say I would not die, he just told Peter to mind his own business) Frail but modern paraphrase of John 21:23 : )
I guess we’ll all find out the truth about this in less than 120 years (Gen 6:3).

Rob's view

Mr 10:38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?

Jer 49:11 Leave thy fatherless children, I will preserve them alive; and let thy widows trust in me. 12 For thus saith the LORD; Behold, they whose judgment was not to drink of the cup have assuredly drunken; and art thou he that shall altogether go unpunished? thou shalt not go unpunished, but thou shalt surely drink of it. 13 For I have sworn by myself, saith the LORD, that Bozrah shall become a desolation, a reproach, a waste, and a curse; and all the cities thereof shall be perpetual wastes.

Ps 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. 5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

 Ps 116:13 I will take the cup of salvation, and call upon the name of the LORD.

Isa 51:17 ¶ Awake, awake, stand up, O Jerusalem, which hast drunk at the hand of the LORD the cup of his fury; thou hast drunken the dregs of the cup of trembling, and wrung them out.

Jer 25:17 Then took I the cup at the LORD'S hand, and made all the nations to drink, unto whom the LORD had sent me:

The idiom meaning of the cup we drink, can mean many things, I am surprised people assume it means one's martyrdom ? Not necessarily?

Shalom

[Dave]

You quote:

The longstanding view
Opinion not fact

Answers I quote: " 1
This question was researched by George Foxe, in Foxe's Book of Martyr's, who could find no historical authenticity to the many legends surrounding the Apostle John.
Legends

Answers I quote: " 2
A fine question! I have not bumped into any notion or tradition about John the Evangelist's martyr's death. He was, according to a hagiographical narrative I know about him, tortured, put to a boiling water etc. but not killed.
This is the opposite of being a martyr – Hmmmmm?

Answers I quote: " 3
According to the written tradition of the eastern Church (
Tradition

Answers I quote: " 4
I think the tradition of a long
Tradition

You have much respect for the traditions and legends of the Catholic Church

Answers I quote: "5
I think this lends to the undoing of Jesus’ prophecy
And I do not even need to read this one any farher

[Deleted]

Oh Sorry, I just grabbed the first link on the subject.
Not really into this topic anyhow.

The three Daniel friends were not martyred .
The 144,000 at end of time are not martyred either.

One question on fuses, are these fuses any good?

You say you used a pull fuse, is this a blade type?

Can't find any info on the use of these fuses?

What does type B mean?

Did find some gold plated Chinese ones, but nothing on blade fuses.

SHalom

[Dave]

ZOOKOTO 300Amp Circuit Breaker Fuse holder, Trolling Motor Auto Car Marine Boat Bike Stereo Audio Inline Fuse Inverter with Manual Reset 12V-24V DC (300A)

This fuses on Amazon.com = $14.99

I use three of these – I do have a blade push pull shut off to the batteries
Just above it – I have this circuit breaker – to protect the system

I have 2 40 amp charge controllers and each has a 50 amp circuit breaker on its output
I like these – and they do work – because I live in solar country
My solar panels are 8000’ feet closer to the sun than yours
4 100 watt 12 panels wired at 24v blows the 12v 50amp breaker at times
At first – I tilted my panels from summer to winter – now they are just in the winter position all the time

Some guys have these same circuit breakers on the solar panel feed to protect from lightning strike – but I do not

[Deleted]

Thanks Dave, do you also have these as reset fuses between the inverter and your battery, or does it cause too much of a voltage drop, and I should use a metal bar fuse ?

Shalom

[Dave]

Nov 23, 2020 0:19:30 GMT -5 Dave said:

I use three of these – I do have a blade push pull shut off to the batteries
Just above it – I have this circuit breaker – to protect the system