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Post by Dave on Jul 15, 2023 23:59:45 GMT -5
Dave" – no Jew throughout history even understood their own faith, religion, or language Rob" That is not true Dave.
This is always your fall back argument – Rome understands the OT better than the Jews who lived it
Make up your mind – which doctrine are you pushing today
In contrast the entire 700,000 words of Ellen White is freely available and electronically referenced,
That must be proof of their validity
not so with Jewish writings, you get blocked to have to pay for their books and their words.
That is a lie – it is an excuse – why do you refuse to acknowledge the free access
Dave" I have given you the links to free access Rob" Oh, I am so sorry, I didn't understand the help you were offering me, can you post them again please?
You pretend a lot of things
Google Showing results for Hebrew midrash online About 454,000 results (0.35 seconds) Dave" 2- all the serpent did was deceive Rob" I am confused? You claim the serpent is a chief Archon, that is a false elohiym power, and now you post this power can deceive humans into sinning.
Rev 12:9 ... the great dragon … the ancient serpent, called the devil and satanas, who deceives the whole world.
Correct – the serpent in the garden was of the Beast Correct the Beast – devils, satanas, and the serpent DECEIVE -------------------------
Dave" Gen 9:3 Rob" so you are a meat eater these days? That is your choice, I am a vegetarian and I get my health from plants.
Nobody cares if you are a vegan or vegetarian But if you pass your diet off as a religious mandate you are wrong ----------------------------
Dave" You choose to believe the metaphor – because Rome does Rob" My friend you also follow Rome, you choose to adopt trinity, a concept not found in Hebrew.
Jews always had a duality – male Father on the throne 24/7 and the Female aspect of God – the Spirit of God – the Holy Spirit - the Shekhinah
God + Shekhinah
Then God came to earth in the image of a man
God + Holy Spirit + Christ --------------------------------
Dave" Rev 12:9 … the great dragon … the ancient serpent, called the devil and satanas, who deceives the whole world. Rob" OK, does this great dragon morally sin Dave?
1) show pride, ie archons filled with pride 2) allow humans to make idol of these archons 3) allow humans to speak to the archons, so the archons do as they speak. 4) the archons want humans to worship them on Sunday as the holy day for archon rule 5) the archons claim to have created humans, thus are our true parents 6) the archon murder any human they wish, and also kill and drink human food as food 7) the archon spoil sex and relationship with beast like depravity of all kinds 8) The archon destroy property of humans, killing, sacking and destroying homes and land, because they can 9) The archon are a father of lies, and with cunning deceit speak with fork tongues and with no feelings of remorse 10) The archon desire themselves as the most high god, above the heavenly father as well, whom they also hate.
Yes – all true – great description of (yester ra) at its worst
Every commandment is broken by these false elohiym powers
No – all these sins were committed by men
such are the sinning cherub - There is no such thing
Dave" 10- Why does this passage bother you so much? 1Pe 3:18 The spirits of the long dead still awake to receive the Gospel. Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus as they were transfigured (Mark 9:2–13; Matthew 17:1–13; Luke 9:28–36) According to you – aren’t they supposed to be dead – sleeping
You argued at length that the NT could not be correct – no spirits of men in heaven – spirits of men do not exist Rob" I have answered this before. Moses and Elijah along with 22 other humans live as human elders around God's throne as the 24 elders. Yes they are alive in their restored biological bodies.
Only 24 – what a merciful God of love you follow
1Pe 3:19 Through the Ruach He also went and preached to the spirits in prison. 1Pe 3:20 Long ago they disobeyed while God kept waiting patiently, in the days of Noah as the ark was being built. In that ark a few (that is, eight souls) were brought safely through water.
What of the spirits of the dead awaiting to hear the Gospel from the time of Noah
Are you suggesting NT Scripture is wrong? You do consider Peter to be a Gnostic
Dave" And I ask you again – Why does your god call sinning cherubs tov ROb" Who says God does?
Gen 1:31 So God saw everything that He made, and behold it was very good. So there was evening and there was morning—the sixth day.
H2896 – טוֹב – ṭôb - From H2895; good (as an adjective) in the widest sense;
Rev 12:1-5 speak specifically to the moment of creation Gen 1:1-3 speaks specifically to the moment of creation ------------------------------------
Dave" Instead God chose the 1% to face off with the 99% and all their other gods – why Answer the question asked of you Rob" I don't understand what you are asking? Write other question using different word meaning?
You are just playing games with me so you do not have to answer
God chose the 1% (Israel) to face off with the 99% (everyone who is not Israeli) and all their other gods – why It is the story of the entire OT – it is the history of Israel
You claim to be a student of the Torah but have no clue what story it tells – pretend ignorance so you do not have to answer -----------------------------------
Dave" How convenient – you have another creator with another creation Where is your scripture Rob" Ps 131" neither do I exercise myself in great matters, or in things too high for me."
Not all things are revealed to us .
What an arrogant ass you are – you are expert enough to tell everyone else they are wrong / incorrect – yet play stupid when questions are asked of you --------------------------
Dave" Wow – this question is too hard for you to answer Way to take a stand Rob" I am sure God is with Israel of old still, but I choose to make my salvation simple. Still did NOT answer my question – is 1948 Israel prophetic
Dave" Do you have a learning disability – or ar you just playing games ROb" Allah and muslems are mentioned in Rev 11, so yes I am aware of their ruling over the world for a time
The question was – how does this play into end times prophesies for Israel?
Dave" You deny the spirit of man – man has no spirit – no such thing Rob" Who keeps bringing up points over and over again? You do. I have answered this many times.
Man does have a spirit, in Hebrew it's called our namash Please would you make up your mind
Dave" Rom 5:13 For up until the Torah, sin was in the world; but sin does not count as sin when there is no law.
Sin = transgression of the Law No law – no sin Rob" Brevity Dave again, I take this to mean your saying the ten commandments have not existed from eternity?
As I said before – the Principles – the Plan – creation is exactly as God established from the beginning
The torah for salvation was written down gradually for man after he sinned. The moral torah for sins has existed before man sinned. Proof?
Ge 2:16 ¶ And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Here is a commandment told by God before man sinned.
Correct – and once given to man it became a binding contract
Rom 5:13 For up until the Torah, sin was in the world; but sin does not count as sin when there is no law. Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Dave" Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned. Rob" Yes for humans. sin . For other creatures that sin, they have their own consequences of sin.
Show me the laws for other creatures
Where are the answers to your questions Walk away without answering – again
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Post by Dave on Jul 16, 2023 13:19:31 GMT -5
Who says the sinning cherubs were created in this creation, only you do, it fits your theory. There is not enough time for creating angels on day 1, having a war on day 1 over some sinning angels and making them banished to earth as a rock on day 1, and God continuing to make more Creation over the earth, also on day 1, with morning and evening day one. There is not enough time – TIME is a fools argument – time is non-linear creating angels on day 1 It is the Age before earth
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven … This was a spiritual age – and a lot happened during this ageGen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. Darkness – ignorance of the Creator – the First Archon made with some matterRev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. Rev 12:4 ... and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. Entropy – decay – a by-product of physical creation – inherent to matterGen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. Christ – God in His own creation – the Light of TruthGen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, There is not enough time for creating angels on day 1, having a war Another TIME argument – a long war just makes a weak God and a strong Beast -
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satanas, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels (messengers) were cast out with him. banished to earth as a rock on day 1, Planet earth was not created until Gen 1:9-10 Earth of Gen 1 = matter in any form – even sub-atomic particles decayGen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. God continuing to make more Creation over the earthYep – 5 more days Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. 1- You are not a student of scripture – you do not know scripture as a whole 2- You are a disciple of Ellen White and you bend scripture to fit her doctrine 3- you do not understand the spiritual nature of Judaism – because you deny the spiritual 4- you do not present consistent arguments The reason your theology leaves you blind and ignorant is because it is an incomplete theology – once you support a lie – you must start denying real scripture to keep your doctrine safe So your Gnostic beast cannot morally sin, so cannot be the false elohiym power. And if you did pose this beast as a power, than you say the beast power is NOT opposing GOD.Where is your supporting scripture to support your claimRev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satanas, which deceiveth the whole world: The Beast Deceives the worldGen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. The beast – satanas seed opposes man NOT God and the Contest was established by God Rev 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven saying, “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Anointed One, for the accuser of our brothers and sisters—the one who accuses them before our God day and night—has been thrown out. Rev 12:11 They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives even in the face of death. the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Anointed One - Christthe accuser of our brothers and sisters—the one who accuses them before our God day and night - The Beast opposes / accuses MAN - NOT GodClearly you contradict the ten commandments. There are TWO elohiym powers in the Ten Commandments, one is a true power the other a false power. Written before man existed.There is one true God and many other non-God godsFunny you hated the idea of two gods fighting over ruling claims? Not two gods – there are many false gods – and none of them oppose the Creator they all oppose manThe idea of two opposing gods of equal stature is 100% Persian Zoroasterism – the page religion of Babylon and Persia – still exist
I have dealt with my 49 verses I have answered your 23 verses Why do you refuse to go through each line and explain to me how each line represents a satan that is anti-God or opposes God – or even disobeys God You don’t because you Can’t – because satan is not God’s opponent in a war Satan is God’s obedient servant helping God facilitate God’s plan Please prove to me that satan is God’s opponent – here are the verses And your answer isWarEze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Is this your long drawn out war that God can hardly win? When did men see thisEze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. Is this your long drawn out war that God can hardly win? When did men see thisEze 28:19 All who know you among the people will be appalled at you. You have become a horror and will be nothing forever.’” When did your satan god become nothing forever He is all you can talk about - you belong to a denomination that shares godhood with satan God created the BeastRev 4:11 “Worthy are You, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, For You created all things, and because of Your will they existed and were created!” God created all thingsJoh 1:3 All things were made through Him, and apart from Him nothing was made that has come into being. The Beast exist therefore Christ created it Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers (Principalities – archon) against the powers, against the worldly forces of this darkness, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. The Beast – the serpent – devils and satanas are our real struggleCol 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created—in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen, whether thrones or angelic powers or rulers or authorities (Principalities). All was created through Him and for Him. The Beast – the serpent – devils and satanas are our real struggle Were all created by God for GodThere is no room within the theology for a good-guy angel to change his form and function within creation – against God’s Will and then alter God’s Plan also against God’s Will
You cannot give me one supporting verse from scripture You cannot give me one pre-Roman source of validationYou preach it – sinning angels before man yet refuse to answer – after man - Gen 1:31 So God saw everything that He made, and behold it was very good. Why does your god include sinning angels as tov or is this just another Robert contradiction you must avoid answering
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Post by rob on Jul 20, 2023 23:32:29 GMT -5
Greetings Dave: Dave" the First Archon made with some matter Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. Rev 12:4 ... and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. Rob " Since when can you twist these verses to mean the beast is intentionally created on Genesis 1:1?
The woman was in labour to a male human child, not a reference to an archon beast being made?
You have no verses where the archon is created in the torah. Not a single one.
Dave" Planet earth was not created until Gen 1:9-10 Rob" Maybe if you define "earth" as "dry land" but the sphere of water existed before this, the planet was formless and a frozen mass of water was all over it.
Such a planet existed before Gen 1:1.... How can I say this?
Ge 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Because this is describing a planet already in existence.
Rob posted "So your Gnostic beast cannot morally sin, so cannot be the false elohiym power. And if you did pose this beast as a power, than you say the beast power is NOT opposing GOD.
Dave replies" Where is your supporting scripture to support your claim? Rob" Easy Dave.
Consider the steps for mankind to become a false elohiym power.
1) The creature was created sinless. 2) The creature sins. 3) God declares the human as a false elohiym power.
Ge 3:11 Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
Rob" In other words the human was once sinless.
Ge 3:17 ¶ And unto Adam he said, ....Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground ....all the days of thy life;
Rob" The human after sinning has his creation around him cursed all the day of his living. Ge 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:
Rob" The process of becoming a false elohiym power is to become a sinner, and keep sinning all the day of your living...
Notice the process is to "yada" good and evil, to be able to choose fundamentally with the mind, and become intimately with the choices of the mind, ie free will. Now these are the steps to a false elohiym power. In the royal commandment is this law:
Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Removing pronouns the verse is saying
Ex 20:3 No human shalt have no other false elohiym power before my face, the true elohiym power.
This law forbids any false elohiym power before the true elohiym power. This law forbids any power opposing God.
And what causes this false elohiym power to oppose God?
It has to be because of it's sins, and all factors of sinning, such as self, pride, lawlessness and entropy (things are cause God to weaken it's power to sustain matter).
Dave" The beast – satanas seed opposes man NOT God Rob" Such a statement cannot fit into the verse
Ex 20:3 No human shalt have no other false elohiym power before my face, the true elohiym power.
What your saying is this
Ex 20:3 No human shalt have no other false elohiym power such as the archon powers before my face, the true elohiym power.
So all the ten commandments are only about mankind only. How convenient.
So how does a normal christian reader by logic consider if another creature is a sinning creature apart from the human?
Well for one Jesus declared the Shedim was a murderer ?
Such a statement is breaking one of the ten commandments, hence makes the shedim a sinner, and a creature with free will to sin.
Yet Dave, ignores this declaration of Jesus regarding the shedim?
The shedim also asked Jesus to worship it as god, and Jesus refused to do so, proof the shedim was again attempting to make itself a false elohiym power, evening opposing the Most High.
Yet Dave, ignores this declaration of Jesus regarding the shedim?
Jesus declares the wicked humans have the same fate as the wicked shedim, both are thrown into the lake of fire, for sinning acts.
Yet Dave, ignores this declaration of Jesus regarding the shedim?
These are three Bible passages among many that declare the shedim sin and are sinning creatures as humans are.
Dave" and none of them oppose the Creator Rob" what about the verses that say "I will be like the Most High" even if the applies to man, man is wanting to oppose even the Most High. Dave" The idea of two opposing gods of equal stature is 100% Persian Zoroasterism Rob" Who says a Creator is equal to a Creature? Not me?
Dave" Please prove to me that satan is God’s opponent ROb" Because the shedim, sins.... the three verses above
1) murder 2) worship me as the Most High 3) thrown into Lake of Fire for sinfulness
This proves the shedim / satan opposes God.
Dave" When did your satan god become nothing forever Rob" Still future pending. One day the Satan shedim is to be no more.
Dave" The Beast exist therefore Christ created it Rob" COrrect, so who is the beast as a creature kind than, before our Creation?
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,
Here speaking to cherubims, not humans. And these creatures are similar to humans because they too have free will and can choose to sin, hence the cherub is a simile of a human.
Dave" There is no room within the theology for a good-guy angel to change his form and function within creation
Rob" What about man than
There is no room within the theology for a good-guy human to change his form and function within creation Did Adam change form and function after sinning?
Yes, he became naked, became tired, lost his home, etc, etc.
Did the mozzie change form and function after sin came upon the planet? Yes, mozzies have to drink blood rather than nectar since the plant source is weakened by entropy, the result of man's sin
Dave" Why does your god include sinning angels as tov Rob" The verse does not imply the sinning angels are included directly in the creation, only the humans are the intended stewards, not the shedim. The creation was very good for man to be the steward, while the other sinning angels are set out of sight whilst also living on the frozen planet. The plan for the grand witness might include this very good declaration, as the human was to witness for God and against the false elohiym power. Dave" You cannot give me one supporting verse from scripture ROb" Why does GOD ask Moses to make a "saraph" upon the pole that who looks to it, is saved from the bite of the firey serpent snakes?
Why include such a term, that cannot apply to man?
Such a term only applies to cherubs, who are also saraph, proving the false elohiym powers are greater than man, and applies to sinning saraph creatures.
Now I use another verse outside of Ezekiel 28, ...
1Jo 3:8 ....for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
I love this verse. Thank GOD for John. Notice Dave, the Shedim sin, like humans sin.
The shedim satan have sinned from the beginning, long before humans existed.
Dave" You cannot give me one pre-Roman source of validation ROb" Well when John wrote this, he existed before Roman came alone and edited things. Here is my proof.
1Jo 3:8 ....for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
Written before 90 AD. HUndreds of years before Rome edited stuff. The shedim devil Satan, is a sinning creature. Bingo
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 21, 2023 2:32:06 GMT -5
Rev 12:1-4 Rob " Since when can you twist these verses to mean the beast is intentionally created on Genesis 1:1?
This is speaking to creation – the Holy Spirit as the Womb of creation
The woman was in labour to a male human child, not a reference to an archon beast being made?
Male child that will rule all the nations with an iron fist = Rev 12:5
You have no verses where the archon is created in the torah. Not a single one. This is correct – there are a lot of New Testament not within the Torah ----------------------
Ge 3:11 Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
Rob" In other words the human was once sinless.
Correct - Eze 28:15 You were perfect in your ways from the day that you were created, until unrighteousness was found in you. Is all about man ---------------------
Dave" The beast – satanas seed opposes man NOT God Rob" Such a statement cannot fit into the verse
What about the verse I provided Gen 3:15 I will put animosity between you and the woman—between your seed and her seed. He will crush your head, and you will crush his heel.”
God is in full command of both sides – He established the Contest between the serpent and the woman – serpent’s seed and the seed of eve
Deny scripture all you want – does not make you correct ----------------------
Well for one Jesus declared the Shedim was a murderer ? Definition of entropy ---------------
Dave" and none of them oppose the Creator Rob" what about the verses that say "I will be like the Most High" even if the applies to man, man is wanting to oppose even the Most High.
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
Isaiah 14 is about a man -----------------
Dave" The idea of two opposing gods of equal stature is 100% Persian Zoroasterism Rob" Who says a Creator is equal to a Creature? Not me?
Just how long has your Cosmic battle between your two gods been going on – according to Ellen White God has yet to be victorious --------------------
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,
Here speaking to cherubims, not humans.
Proof of your Catolic upbringing – believe the metaphor – ignore the rules of grammar -----------------------------
Dave" You cannot give me one pre-Roman source of validation ROb" Well when John wrote this, he existed before Roman came alone and edited things. Here is my proof.
1Jo 3:8 ....for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
If your satan was sinning from the beginning – why did God look back on all His creation and call it tov Another question you are avoiding answering
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Post by rob on Jul 21, 2023 4:35:10 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
Dave" Gen 3:15 I will put animosity between you and the woman—between your seed and her seed. He will crush your head, and you will crush his heel.”
God is in full command of both sides – He established the Contest between the serpent and the woman – serpent’s seed and the seed of eve
ROb" You are correct the promise is between Satan and Man, but you are assuming GOD is not involved, He sent His SON born under the human as a full human.
Why did GOD do this, if NOT to be directly tempted by Satan?
Jesus first crushes the serpent's head, and later mankind crushes the serpent heel, with witnessing.
Satan is a defeated foe, and lost his right to live forever as ruler of the false elohiym power he has established, as a sinning kingdom. God is in full control, yes, but sends his SON into the sinning kingdom on purpose to redeem man from sins.
John says this best
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
So the contest is not about Satan and man as you claim, but about Satan and God, man is just the pawn in this game of chess.
------------------
Dave" Isaiah 14 is about a man
Rob" No Dave, it's a complex poem
Isa 14:4 ¶ That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon,
Isa 14:5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
This complex poem is about wicked rulers who empower Babylon
Isa 14:8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us. Now we are introduced to similes of trees, also symbols of rulers of Babylon
Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming:
How do trees enter hell? Clearly about poetry similes
Isa 14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
Jesus also became a towla worm, and entered hell, this place is a complex poem indeed.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Now we are introduced in the one who opposes Jesus. The bright star that sinned. Jesus is also a bright star, that has never sinned.
Both Satan and Jesus are saraph too, burning ones from heaven.
Jesus entered hell as a towla worm, and crushes the head of the serpent in doing so.
Now it will be Satan's turn to enter into hell, from which he lacks power to return.
It's a complex poem, about cosmic rulers, not about man much at all.
I note Jeff Benner lists iysh H376 as meaning "man".
I would not say the entire poem is about man only, but I get your point. It's a complex poem overall.
Dave" If your satan was sinning from the beginning – why did God look back on all His creation and call it tov Another question you are avoiding answering
ROb" A good question.
First do you admit the satan shedim was sinning from the beginning as John says , and Jesus says?
Another question you are avoiding answering?
Than you asked why did God call his arrangement and creation very good, tov?
One has to ask, what was GOD doing? His purpose to create creation over the planet with sinning cherubims on it?
In fact since GOD left them to their world, the temperature would be near absolute zero and the watery world would be formless and void of all things. I would term this place like Hell.
God had a plan.
God had to deal with a sin problem.
God created a universe over this hellish place, that allowed for the world to exist despite turning into God's light and turning into Satan's dark, a contrast of day and night, light and no light.
God called this very good. What was the purpose?
Here is a prayer poem David prayed
Ps 27:1 A prayer David spoke" The LORD is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the LORD is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?
ROb" Is GOD afraid of anything? No
2 When the wicked, even mine enemies and my foes, came upon me to eat up my flesh, they stumbled and fell.
ROb" Is GOD afraid of anything? No, not even when sinning creatures rise against GOD, they will stumbled and fall.
3 Though an host should encamp against me, my heart shall not fear: though war should rise against me, in this will I be confident.
ROb" Is GOD afraid of anything? No, not even when sinning creatures rise against GOD, they will stumbled and fall. Even if a war should rise against GOD, GOD is still confident.
4 One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to enquire in his temple. Rob" God has His beauty and temple, from which light shines.
5 For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock.
Rob" The Father is as secure as the foundation rock upon which earth is made from, and has His secrets, no sinner can know.
6 And now shall mine head be lifted up above mine enemies round about me: therefore will I offer in his tabernacle sacrifices of joy; I will sing, yea, I will sing praises unto the LORD. 7 ¶ Hear, O LORD, when I cry with my voice: have mercy also upon me, and answer me. 8 When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek. Rob" GOD seeks the human, as the human seeks GOD, this creation from humans is embedden in this poem prayer.
9 Hide not thy face far from me; put not thy servant away in anger: thou hast been my help; leave me not, neither forsake me, O God of my salvation.
Rob" Jesus is also termed a servant, and becomes human to be the GOD of our salvation.
10 When my father and my mother forsake me, then the LORD will take me up.
Rob" When all forsake Jesus, both Father and Mother forsake Jesus, their Son, yet God is in control. Notice Ps 22:1 says this
11 Teach me thy way, O LORD, and lead me in a plain path, because of mine enemies. 12 Deliver me not over unto the will of mine enemies: for false witnesses are risen up against me, and such as breathe out cruelty.
Rob: The purpose of earth and this war and it's wicked, is to bear witness to the Father, that sin spoils His ways.
13 I had fainted, unless I had believed to see the goodness of the LORD in the land of the living. Rob" Man was to be a witness against the wicked.
14 Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD.
Rob " Wait upon GOD to bring all things to it's end.
Dave" If your satan was sinning from the beginning – why did God look back on all His creation and call it tov Another question you are avoiding answering ROb" I have not avoided your question, but you really ask some hard questions.
Now embrace my question?
Was the Satan sinning from the beginning as John and Jesus says? DO you agree?
DO you also agree Isaiah 14 is about the two saraph beings who are to enter hell. Jesus the towla worm entered hell and came back, because He was sinless. Satan is soon to enter hell, but because of his sinning, cannot ever come back, and thus will soon cease to be. Notice I do not need Ezekiel 28 to help me who is the saraph being who opposes the Most High. Not about man, for man is not termed as a saraph. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 21, 2023 9:37:20 GMT -5
Dave" Gen 3:15 I will put animosity between you and the woman—between your seed and her seed. He will crush your head, and you will crush his heel.” God is in full command of both sides – He established the Contest between the serpent and the woman – serpent’s seed and the seed of eveROb" You are correct the promise is between Satan and Man, but you are assuming GOD is not involved, What – God established the Contest – God placed the Contestants together – God knew exactly what would happen – all God’s Plan – all God’s WillSatan is a defeated foe, Correct – all physical creation is temporary – it will all pass away – God’s Plan from the beginning John says this best 1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. So the contest is not about Satan and man as you claim, Please learn to read scripture without your assumptions Dave" Gen 3:15 I will put animosity between you and the woman—between your seed and her seed. He will crush your head, and you will crush his heel.”
The Messiah came to save man from the Beast------------------ Dave" Isaiah 14 is about a manRob" No Dave, it's a complex poem 3:25 - Dispensationalist are more literal to the Word of God
While - COVENANT THEOLOGY is based upon / dependent on – Allegoryallegory 1. a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one. 4:20 - Basic principle – if the Bible says something – it means something else This is mandatory for Robert and his SDA dogma 6:30 – An allagory needs a key or/a code built upon a series of assumptions – A = B = C therefore D means whatever you need it to be I have used this same criticism of Robert – he plays word chain games built upon assumptions
Robert maintains that satan hates God – opposes God Yet he cannot supply one verse of scripture to defend his view Nor can he supply one pre-Roman reference6:45 – Because the allegory method of this means this – then this mean that – then that means this – no one can read the Bible for themselves – someone has to tell them what it says This is 100% Robert’s argument – Ellen White has taught him how to read scripture – she is another prophet equal with the Apostle Paul Scripture says what it means - Rob" No Dave, it's a complex poem--------------------------------- Dave" If your satan was sinning from the beginning – why did God look back on all His creation and call it tov Another question you are avoiding answering ROb" A good question. First do you admit the satan shedim was sinning from the beginning as John says , and Jesus says? The Hypostasis of the ArchonsOpening his eyes, he saw a vast quantity of matter without limit; and he became arrogant, saying, "It is I who am God, and there is none other apart from me". When he said this, he sinned against the entirety. And a voice came forth from above the realm of absolute power, saying, "You are mistaken, Samael" – which is, 'god of the blind'. Than you asked why did God call his arrangement and creation very good, tov? One has to ask, what was GOD doing? His purpose Authoritative TeachingAnd before anything came into being, it was the Father alone who existed, before the worlds that are in the heavens appeared, or the world that is on the earth, or principality (archon), or authority, or the powers. [...] appear [...] and [...] And nothing came into being without his wish. He, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear, and make all those who contend leave behind the things that had come into being, and despise them with a lofty, incomprehensible knowledge, and flee to the one who exists. Why - to reveal his wealth and his glory What - nothing came into being without his wish. All God’s Plan – all God’s Will------------------------- God had a plan. Yep – all God’s Plan – all God’s Will – just as God designed / createdGod had to deal with a sin problem. YEP – man knows better – man has been instructed better – man had been commanded better – yet – man sins -------------------------------- God called this very good. What was the purpose? Answer = same answer why God set the plagues upon Egypt and delivered Israel across the Red Sea “the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory,“
Know that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the one true God Rob" GOD seeks the human, as the human seeks GOD, this creation from humans is embedden in this poem prayer. yet God is in control. Notice Ps 22:1 says this Rob: The purpose of earth and this war and it's wicked, is to bear witness to the Father, that sin spoils His ways. (google) Someone once said this quote, “If you love someone, let them go. If they return, they were always yours. If they don't, they never were.” Today, there are several variations of this line and no one really knows for sure who came up with the line first. The concept is straight from the Prodigal Son and LukeGod places us in this 3D physical world – he lets us go While in this world of corruption – if we return to God as the Prodigal Son God knows we are His – Joy / Divine JoyWhile in this world of corruption – if we do not return to God – it is our choice alone – because we choose world not God Authoritative Teaching… and make all those who contend leave behind the things that had come into being, and despise them with a lofty, incomprehensible knowledge, and flee to the one who exists. Recognize this world for what it is – fleeting – corrupting – not our true home – we will become discussed with this world and disappointed by our fellow manand flee to the one who exists. - God Why does bad things happen to good people - why is there grief and hardship in the world?The Exegesis on the Soul For the beginning of salvation is repentance. Therefore (cf. Acts 13:24), "Before Christ`s appearance came John, preaching the baptism of repentance." And repentance takes place in distress and grief. But the father is good and loves humanity, and he hears the soul that calls upon him and sends it the light of salvation. Therefore he said through the spirit to the prophet (cf. 1 Cl 8:3), "Say to the children of my people, 'If your sins extend from earth to heaven, and if they become red like scarlet and blacker than sackcloth, and if you return to me with all your soul and say to me 'my Father!', I will heed you as a holy people.'" ----------------------------- Dave" If your satan was sinning from the beginning – why did God look back on all His creation and call it tov Another question you are avoiding answering ROb" I have not avoided your question, but you really ask some hard questions. The reasons my questions are hard for you – is that you have an incomplete theology
Scripture validates itself Once you buy into a lie – you must avoid or deny scripture to keep your dogma real------------------------- Now embrace my question?Why should I – I have answered you the same answers going on 4 years Yet – you have a whole string of unanswered questions Is this a two way discussion?
You claim to be a Christian – and this forum is here to explore all of scripture and the hand of God upon the planet Yet – going on 4 years now all you can speak about is your love for satan
Why must a Jew accept your belief in satan to accept Christ as the Messiah?13 I had fainted, unless I had believed to see the goodness of the LORD in the land of the living. Rob" Man was to be a witness against the wicked. YES – that is man’s assignment upon earth
Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Flashback - your UFO Alien believing neighbor is just an example of todays elementary science educated non-religious masses - why does your dogma leave you totally unprepaird to witness to your neighbor. I believe in Eph 6:12 - there are many Principalities / demons / serpents / archon / Jinn / shedim all around us in mnay forms - as I look at the world - I see scripture in everything --------------------------------- Was the Satan sinning from the beginning as John and Jesus says? DO you agree? The Hypostasis of the ArchonsOpening his eyes, he saw a vast quantity of matter without limit; and he became arrogant, saying, "It is I who am God, and there is none other apart from me". When he said this, he sinned against the entirety. And a voice came forth from above the realm of absolute power, saying, "You are mistaken, Samael" – which is, 'god of the blind'. No Law broken – only arrogant ignorance spoken Murderer from the beginning – sure this world was designed to be temporary – god’s Plan has always been Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; Liar from the beginning – sure Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: … Rev 12:10 … for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. The Beast opposes man
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Post by Dave on Jul 21, 2023 16:07:00 GMT -5
Gen 1:1 – Creation Gen 1:2 – Darkness Gen 1:3 – Light Gen 1:4 - ... and God divided the light from the darkness. Rev 12:1-2 – Creation Rev 12:3 – the Beast appeared Rev 12:5 – the annotated son – Christ Rev 12:7 … war in heaven Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels (messengers) were cast out with him. Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. Why did God call His creation tov1 – Jewish belief #1 – God is absolute – God’s creation is exactly as he designed it – the tov and the ra – all God’s Plan – all God’s Will 2- Why the Beast – it is a by-product of / inherent to physical creation You can pretend about other creation made more perfectly in your eyes – but it is a word game in fantasy Reality is the world we live in – it was created to pass away – temporary – on all levels – even sub-atomic particles decay Jewish belief #1 – God is absolute – God’s creation is exactly as he designed it – the tov and the ra – all God’s Plan – all God’s Will God is omniscient – God placed man (adam) in the garden along with the serpent and one commandment – He knew exactly what would happen. God allowed it to happen – why?
The most elegant explanation I have foundAuthoritative TeachingAnd before anything came into being, it was the Father alone who existed, before the worlds that are in the heavens appeared, or the world that is on the earth, or principality, or authority, or the powers. [...] appear [...] and [...] And nothing came into being without his wish. Nothing can into being without God
He, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear, and make all those who contend leave behind the things that had come into being, and despise them with a lofty, incomprehensible knowledge, and flee to the one who exists. Why did God create our reality as it is – Rom 1:19? Answer = same answer why God set the plagues upon Egypt and delivered Israel across the Red Sea Same answer as – why the walls of Jericho fell Same answer as – why every nation fell before Israel when they walked with God Same answer as – why is Israel the only ancient Nation, culture, and language still alive and prosperous Same answer as – why Israel will be victorious in the final battle “the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory,“
Know that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the one true God [/quote] What is the entire point of the the Gospel and the resurrection Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. “the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory,“ Know that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the one true God – and Christ is the Messiah[/quote] It is the theology of the First Century Christians – the original Faith – of the original followers of Jesus Christ – First century Pentecostal Messianic Jews The Nag Hammadi Library – is from a group of 1st and 2nd century Christians of Egypt – NO ONE DOUBTS THIS – it is a perfect look into the mindset / understanding of these first Christians – before the era of Rome Act 1:1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, Act 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. After the Ressurection – jesus appeard and spoke to His disciple - speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: Why has Rome edited away all record of these encounters and there teachingsThe Apocryphon of John… And it happened one day, when John, the brother of James - who are the sons of Zebedee - had come up to the temple, that a Pharisee named Arimanius approached him and said to him, "Where is your master whom you followed?" And he said to him, "He has gone to the place from which he came." The Pharisee said to him, "With deception did this Nazarene deceive you (pl.), and he filled your ears with lies, and closed your hearts (and) turned you from the traditions of your fathers." When I, John, heard these things I turned away from the temple to a desert place. And I grieved greatly in my heart, saying, "How then was the savior appointed, and why was he sent into the world by his Father, and who is his Father who sent him, and of what sort is that aeon to which we shall go? For what did he mean when he said to us, 'This aeon to which you will go is of the type of the imperishable aeon, but he did not teach us concerning the latter, of what sort it is." Straightway, while I was contemplating these things, behold, the heavens opened and the whole creation which is below heaven shone, and the world was shaken. I was afraid, and behold I saw in the light a youth who stood by me. While I looked at him, he became like an old man. And he changed his likeness (again), becoming like a servant. There was not a plurality before me, but there was a likeness with multiple forms in the light, and the likenesses appeared through each other, and the likeness had three forms. Trinity - the thrice-male child – as The Gospel of the Egyptians calls HimHe said to me, "John, John, why do you doubt, or why are you afraid? You are not unfamiliar with this image, are you? - that is, do not be timid! - I am the one who is with you (pl.) always. I am the Father, I am the Mother, I am the Son. I am the undefiled and incorruptible one. Now I have come to teach you what is and what was and what will come to pass, that you may know the things which are not revealed and those which are revealed, and to teach you concerning the unwavering race of the perfect Man. Now, therefore, lift up your face, that you may receive the things that I shall teach you today, and may tell them to your fellow spirits who are from the unwavering race of the perfect Man." What was said – and - Why has Rome edited away all record of these encounters and there teachingsEasy Answer All of the First Christians were Pentecostal – no organized church – just the Body of Christ – Brothers in Christ – lead by the Spirit – no need for a Catholic Priest or the Catholic Church The Roman Edit – had to change this so that the masses would be dependent on the Church – not the Holy Spirit Rome did everything it could to deJewify the New Christian religion into one of Rome's making The call of all these Nag Hammadi texts stress our spiritual nature – our spiritual walk – praying in the spirit – Receiving Pentecost – be filled All of the First Christians were Pentecostal – no organized church – just the Body of Christ – Brothers in Christ – lead by the Spirit – no need for a Catholic Priest or the Catholic Church and the leadership of a Pope The Gospel of Thomas(39) Jesus said, "The pharisees and the scribes have taken the keys of knowledge (gnosis) and hidden them. They themselves have not entered, nor have they allowed to enter those who wish to. You, however, be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves." Just as the Sadducee corrupted the Jewish faith so that Jesus calls the ‘money changers’ and ‘viprers’The Apocalypse of Peter"For many will accept our teaching in the beginning. And they will turn from them again by the will of the Father of their error, because they have done what he wanted. And he will reveal them in his judgment, i.e., the servants of the Word. But those who became mingled with these shall become their prisoners, since they are without perception. And the guileless, good, pure one they push to the worker of death, and to the kingdom of those who praise Christ in a restoration. And they praise the men of the propagation of falsehood, those who will come after you. And they will cleave to the name of a dead man, thinking that they will become pure. But they will become greatly defiled and they will fall into a name of error, and into the hand of an evil, cunning man and a manifold dogma, and they will be ruled without law." "For some of them will blaspheme the truth and proclaim evil teaching. And they will say evil things against each other. Some will be named: (those) who stand in (the) strength of the archons, of a man and a naked woman who is manifold and subject to much suffering. And those who say these things will ask about dreams. And if they say that a dream came from a demon worthy of their error, then they shall be given perdition instead of incorruption." ... "And there shall be others of those who are outside our number who name themselves bishop and also deacons, as if they have received their authority from God. They bend themselves under the judgment of the leaders. Those people are dry canals." Gee – and the Roman catholic Church didn’t canonize this – instead they placed it on the Roman Index of things you are NOT to read or know Just as the Sadducee corrupted the Jewish faith so that Jesus calls the ‘money changers’ and ‘viprers’ Rome has usurped the faith and added its own new doctrine to separate itself from those ‘Christ Killing Jews’Who usurped the Roman Catholic church away from original Christianity – the spoiler – the corrupter – the Beast – we call the devil or satanas Who elevates satan to a position of godhood – Rome does Who invented the ‘Fallen Angel’ doctrine – Rome did What is the harm of the Fallen Angel doctrine1- it is always presented as a fall from Grace God’s unrequited love = Grace – absolutely impossible to fall from God’s Grace 2- It teaches a weak God God cannot control His own creation – cannot even manage His own angels Instead – an angel changed his own form and function within creation against God’s Will – then altered God’s Plan also against God’s Will However – scripture says – who can stand against God – No One! 3- It teaches a weak God – God tried to make a tov world – but couldn't – was not able – your satan god prevent Him Just as the Sadducee corrupted the Jewish faith so that Jesus calls the ‘money changers’ and ‘viprers’ Post Roman Christendom’s many different churches – with their man-made doctrines are suffering a falling away The Legacy of Roman Christendom = apathyThe cycle of scripture – The Age of the Gentile Christ is resurrected from the grave – and promises the Baptism of the Holy Spirit The church usurps the faith through the power of the Roman governmental authority There needs to be a revival of reality before the end But the Second Coming of Christ as the Lion of Judah is near
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Post by rob on Jul 21, 2023 17:04:28 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
Dave posts Gnostic writings" Straightway, while I was contemplating these things, behold, the heavens opened and the whole creation which is below heaven shone, and the world was shaken. I was afraid, and behold I saw in the light a youth who stood by me. While I looked at him, he became like an old man. And he changed his likeness (again), becoming like a servant. There was not a plurality before me, but there was a likeness with multiple forms in the light, and the likenesses appeared through each other, and the likeness had three forms.
Dave: "Trinity - the thrice-male child – as The Gospel of the Egyptians calls Him
He said to me, "John, John, why do you doubt, or why are you afraid? You are not unfamiliar with this image, are you? - that is, do not be timid! - I am the one who is with you (pl.) always. I am the Father, I am the Mother, I am the Son. I am the undefiled and incorruptible one." Rob" Why have you waited 4 years to post this expression proof to me? I do not support this idea at all. It is totally wrong.
Dave" absolutely impossible to fall from God’s Grace
Rob" Really? You asked for proof Satan is opposing GOD and falling from God's Grace?
1) Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: 2) Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 3) And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rob" six seconds or 6 minutes, no matter, a war is a war.
Fighting over angels is a fight.
No longer allowed to return to heaven. Explain this away if you can.
Dave" It teaches a weak God God cannot control His own creation – cannot even manage His own angels Rob" Ivan Malet was a serial killer, rapist and killer by slow means of shooting to abuse and hurt the human until it longed to die. Explain why GOD allowed this to happen to more than a dozen victims without caring for their death and abuse?
Why even Job lost all his sons and daughters and animals because of a Satan who challenged God and God's reply was "ALL is in thy power" What does this mean, I wonder?
Why does GOD allow the murderer to murder humans ?
Dave" 3- It teaches a weak God – God tried to make a tov world – but couldn't – was not able – your satan god prevent Him ROb" First Satan never stopped God creating a tov world, even able to exist should the steward Adam choose to sin and fall from God's grace. If nobody can fall from God's grace, explain the wicked ones, including Satan who end up in the Lake of fire? Explain the fate of the Sodomites for example? And the flood victims? -----------------------------
Rob"s question is NOT answered by Dave" Now embrace my question?
Was the Satan sinning from the beginning as John and Jesus says? DO you agree?
DO you also agree Isaiah 14 is about the two saraph beings who are to enter hell. Jesus the towla worm entered hell and came back, because He was sinless. Satan is soon to enter hell, but because of his sinning, cannot ever come back, and thus will soon cease to be.
Notice I do not need Ezekiel 28 to help me who is the saraph being who opposes the Most High. Not about man, for man is not termed as a saraph.
Dave" Now embrace my question? Why should I? Dave" Why does bad things happen to good people - why is there grief and hardship in the world? 'If your sins extend from earth to heaven, and if they become red like scarlet and blacker than sackcloth, and if you return to me with all your soul and say to me 'my Father!', I will heed you as a holy people.'" ROb" Job was repenting and loving GOD every day, yet experienced great sorrow? You post silly answers Dave, that make no sense? Why does bad things happen to good people? Rob "Can't you answer my questions Dave? Are they too hard for you? I have answered your questions if they are within my experience? Your claim of a string of unanswered questions is bogus. Now answer my question:
Was the Satan sinning from the beginning as John and Jesus says? DO you agree?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 21, 2023 17:57:36 GMT -5
Dave" It teaches a weak God God cannot control His own creation – cannot even manage His own angels
Why does GOD allow the murderer to murder humans ?
Human kill humans – why is man the only animal that will hunt his own kind?
(yester ra) Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is dragged away and enticed by his own desire. Jas 1:15 Then when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is full grown, it brings forth death. --------------------------
Dave" 3- It teaches a weak God – God tried to make a tov world – but couldn't – was not able – your satan god prevent Him ROb" First Satan never stopped God creating a tov world, even able to exist should the steward Adam choose to sin and fall from God's grace. So you teach that because Adam sinned – God stopped loving him? What nonsense! God loves Adam so much that God came to earth as a man and suffered death upon the cross.
Grace – God’s loves you even tho you are a sinner -----------------------------
Now embrace my question? Was the Satan sinning from the beginning as John and Jesus says? DO you agree?
I have answered this question over and over
The Hypostasis of the Archons Opening his eyes, he saw a vast quantity of matter without limit; and he became arrogant, saying, "It is I who am God, and there is none other apart from me". When he said this, he sinned against the entirety. And a voice came forth from above the realm of absolute power, saying, "You are mistaken, Samael" – which is, 'god of the blind'.
No law broken – only arrogant ignorance spoken
If you demand it a sin to be the Beast – then why did God call sinning angels tov – Gen 1:31
No law broken – only ignorance of the truth spoken – Darkness ------------------
DO you also agree Isaiah 14 is about the two saraph beings who are to enter hell.
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
Isa 14 is about a man
H376 - אִישׁ - 'ı̂ysh - Contracted for H582 (or perhaps rather from an unused root meaning to be extant); a man as an individual or a male person; often used as an adjunct to a more definite term (and in such cases frequently not expressed in translation.) : - also, another, any (man), a certain, + champion, consent, each, every (one), fellow, [foot-, husband-] man, (good-, great, mighty) man, he, high (degree), him (that is), husband, man
Ezk 28 is about the King of Tyre Scripture uses the metaphor of Christ being the Lamb of God Question – are there now two? One Christ and one Lamb of God
Scripture uses the metaphor of the King being a covering cherub – you demand this to become two different beings
Where do you draw the line -
El Shaddai (Lord God Almighty) El Elyon (The Most High God) Adonai (Lord, Master) Yahweh (Lord, Jehovah) Jehovah Nissi (The Lord My Banner) Jehovah-Raah (The Lord My Shepherd) Jehovah Rapha (The Lord That Heals) Jehovah Shammah (The Lord Is There) Jehovah Tsidkenu (The Lord Our Righteousness) Jehovah Mekoddishkem (The Lord Who Sanctifies You) El Olam (The Everlasting God) Elohim (God) Qanna (Jealous) Jehovah Jireh (The Lord Will Provide) Jehovah Shalom (The Lord Is Peace) Jehovah Sabaoth (The Lord of Hosts)
16 different metaphors of God – does this force there to be 16 different Gods – each metaphor becoming a new and different being?
Answer – no completely silly – Father and Dad are not two seperate individuals
Only in Ezk 28 does the metaphor comes alive for Catholic satan
Your turn - many question await your honest response
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Post by rob on Jul 22, 2023 5:21:26 GMT -5
Greetings Dave Rob" Why does GOD allow the murderer to murder humans ? Dave" Human kill humans – why is man the only animal that will hunt his own kind?Rob" I did not ask this question Dave. Notice the verse:- Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. THis verse says several things 1) The serpent only tells lies. Jeff Benner is wrong, deceiving Eve with truth, is still falsehood and a lie against God. 2) Jesus calls the shedim Satan Devil a murderer that murders humans. You ignore this claim, saying only humans murder humans. How do we know the Devil is an agency inside humans urging them to murder other humans? Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. Notice God grants the Devil power to do anything to Job except kill him, so obviously Satan can murder humans, just as the humans took away Job's children, Satan was powering the humans to kill other Job's children. Dave" Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.Rob" Yes this is true, but not the question I placed before you. Humans can sin and thus murder other humans without an agency empowering them. Perhaps you do not see the Devil is an agency for sinning, helping humans to also sin? The verse also above says this "and the father of it." A father is a provider, and hence the Devil provides the source of power behind much of the sinning that takes place on earth, though I also get James 1"14, humans are also quite capable of sinning all by themselves. --------------------- Dave" So you teach that because Adam sinned – God stopped loving him? What nonsense!Rob" Again you are adding and twisting things I did not say. The topic at hand you presented was, 3- It teaches a weak God – God tried to make a tov world – but couldn't – was not able – your satan god prevent HimAnd I replied to this weird idea, that a sinning cherub cannot and did not prevent GOD from doing what God wanted to do, ie, deal with a sinning problem. You state " God loves Adam so much that God came to earth as a man and suffered death upon the cross." Well God loves Satan so much that God came to the frozen planet and created a perfect world over the planet, so the opposing elohiym power could describe to other unfallen worlds what sinning is really all about. God also placed sinless free will humans there also to witness against the sinning cherubims, and thus show the unfallen worlds how to deal with sinning. Sadly after many years of sinless living Eve sinned and Adam also sinned, so God put His rescue plan into action. -------------------- Dave" I have answered this question over and over No law broken – only arrogant ignorance spokenRob " why do you NOT write your answer clearly. But I think you are saying the archon beast cannot sin, because it has no free will to sin, hence cannot sin. So the problem is only one of arrogance and blindness, so no law was broken, thus the archon cannot morally sin. Is this what you are trying to say Dave? Why are you afraid to answer the question clearly as a NO. Was the Satan sinning from the beginning as John and Jesus says? DO you agree? Dave would answer NO, the archon Satan beast cannot sin as humans sin, because the archon beast serpent has no free will to choose to intentionally break the laws of GOD regarding actions of love. Than if this is your answer Dave, you violate the language of Bible words. Jesus called the shedim Satan Devil a murderer, and this is clearly breaking the moral laws of GOD You have a coping statement for your ignoring plain scripture You say the sinning angels were declared by GOD in the creation as tov.This is out of context. God declares the creation over the frozen planet with sinning angels on it, as very good. Not declared the sinning angels as very good. They are sinners and banished to earth for a reason in the past. Obviously God loved the sinning angels too, but not their sinning, so created a perfect blameless creation for the planet as their own playground, to let other created worlds see the results of sin. ------------------------- Dave" Scripture uses the metaphor of Christ being the Lamb of God Question – are there now two? One Christ and one Lamb of God
Scripture uses the metaphor of the King being a covering cherub – you demand this to become two different beingsRob" I asked you before if you written poetry and understand the use of similes in poetry? You do not seem to understand. Poetry is the art of writing two stories that are literal but parallel each other as similes of each other. For example Joshua is a poetry story for Jesus, there is no sin recorded against Joshua for this reason. Another example is the three young captives facing the burning torture and not bowing to the Babylonian ruler is another story of the end of time, that is played out, we humans will face soon int he end of time, when the great reset is established. Dave" Where do you draw the line -?Rob" Hmm? First you need to admit GOD invented poetry in His messages for a reason, to show us things about GOD, using stories we humans can relate to. You do not seem to understand this idea at all. You favour Gnostic writings that present God as three forms, one being and one person, who has three faces, a father face, a mother face, and a son face. There is some evidence of this idea in Scripture Eze 1:10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle. However while cherubs are described as this, God is not.
In Genesis we see how GOD is like, by the creation story and its parallels to God. "Let us made man in our image, says GOD" So GOD is a family power One being but three personalities of love in action. Why does love have to have at a minimum three personalities of love? "ab" is a provider of love "am" is a responder to that love, and "ben" is a collector of both provider and responder. Each personality of love is shown in the Genesis account. There is no natural account of a creature as one being and one personality, having three forms. Dave" Where do you draw the line -
El Shaddai (Lord God Almighty) El Elyon (The Most High God) Adonai (Lord, Master) Yahweh (Lord, Jehovah) Jehovah Nissi (The Lord My Banner) Jehovah-Raah (The Lord My Shepherd) Jehovah Rapha (The Lord That Heals) Jehovah Shammah (The Lord Is There) Jehovah Tsidkenu (The Lord Our Righteousness) Jehovah Mekoddishkem (The Lord Who Sanctifies You) El Olam (The Everlasting God) Elohim (God) Qanna (Jealous) Jehovah Jireh (The Lord Will Provide) Jehovah Shalom (The Lord Is Peace) Jehovah Sabaoth (The Lord of Hosts)ROb" Look at the Hebrew titles and how they are used often in the oldest Hebrew scroll we have, JOB. The most common titles in JOB is ELOAH and SHADDAY. at the end there is also YHWH. In the beginning of JOb there is mention of ELOHIYM. All your other titles are functional descriptors of this divine family power. I showed you the only verse that proves the family power as two heavenly parents, Luke 1:35, but you ignore the finding. The poetry figures of a Father and a SON is common in the Bible. Dave" 16 different metaphors of God – does this force there to be 16 different Gods – each metaphor becoming a new and different being?ROb, not 16 different gods, but 16 similes of how this family power functions as divinity. Isa 14:4 ¶ That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon,THis is a complex poem about the city of confusion, fitting as we on a forum also ponder confusion. Isa 14:5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.The poem considers the wicked rulers and all the players of RA. Isa 14:6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.God controls all the rules of confusion, all the stakeholders are controlled by God. Isa 14:7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.Despite the sinning, God brings the earth into peace. Isa 14:8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.The trees are symbols of good humans, and no axeman comes against us, for GOD controls the wicked rulers of earth. Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.Beneath earth is hell, that comes to meet thee one day. We are introduced here to hell along with rulers of Babylon. Isa 14:10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?SOme claim to be proud and some become weak? "us" here is GOD challenging those who live in Babylon, the city of earth, the rulers over sin, can you rule like God rules? Isa 14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.THose that claim to be as like GOD shall become a worm, and the towla worm is our first simile of Jesus, who died as the towla worm for sins, by going down into the grave and hell. Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.Now we are introduced into another player in the Babylonian ruler of wicked humans, a sinning angel called the bright star. Can humans claim to rule above the stars of GOD? hardly. Where is the Bible proof that this bright star opposes GOD, something Dave says does not exist in Scripture? Da 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.Michael is a prince who fights using His angels, and comes to an angel who is held up fighting against some adversary for 21 days. So some adversary is fighting over the good angels GOD sends on missions to earth. Who could this be? Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon;Here is Michael again fighting using his angels to fight the dragon with his angels. Now this war cannot be 6 seconds, as the one in Daniel 10:13 lasted 21 days, so your meaning of "war" is not correct, meaning "blemish". Mt 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.Jesus is not calling Peter to be an opposer of Christ, but because Peter is listening to the voice of the opposer of Christ, called Satan. Where do temptations come from, if not from a voice of the adversary within our conscience? This same thing is mentioned in Acts Ac 13:8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith. 9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him, 10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?The serpent was arum, yet here the human Elymas is declared to be arum like the serpent is. And notice the human possessed by Satan, perverts the right ways of the Lord, in other words opposes GOD. The wicked human opposes GOD, and the Satan behind the human also opposes GOD. Here is a verse that matches the work of Satan with the work of wicked humans, as BOTH opposing GOD 1Ki 21:10 And set two men, sons of Belial, before him, to bear witness against him, saying, Thou didst blaspheme God and the king. And then carry him out, and stone him, that he may die.So he who touches the apple of His eye, also touches GOD directly. Ps 17:8 ¶ Keep me as the apple of the eye, hide me under the shadow of thy wings, 9 From the wicked that oppress me,So whoever hurts a human, hurts also GOD, and thus opposes GOD directly. Joh 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.Who is the prince of this world? Satan is. Why is He judged? Because GOD does not like the way Satan rules the earth and it's creatures. Sometimes GOD saves humans from this prince of the world, because the human seek salvation. Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?God wanted to boast about this human, who does not choose to live under Satan as his prince. Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? 10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. 11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.The prince of the world spoke excuses for not making Job sin, because God hedges the prince of the world from Job. That is the purpose of salvation, to resuce us from the prince, the prince of the world attacks, and to cleanse us from sinning, past and present. 2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.Paul speaks of the prince of the world beguiling Eve through his arum nature, is paralleled to humans who are corrupted from the simple salvation of Jesus. Isa 14:16 T hey that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
So the man that makes the earth tremble is the King of Babylon, yet GOD forces this king to accept GOD as his ruler. Isa 14:22 For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name...Babylon first came to be under Nimrod, a city he built was called Babylon, before the time of the Great Flood, and now after the Flood the same Babylon is established under a new king. Or is the same agent living as king of Babylon, despite the rise and death of human kings? Isa 14:25 That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot:Other kingdoms also die and fall/ Isa 14:26 This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth:God wishing to establish his glory because he wishes it. Isa 14:29 Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.THis verse is a special clue to the complex poem about Babylon, the one before the FLood and the one after the Flood and the spiritual Babylon living all over the world for us today. This city is under a prince of the world, and is a saraph being, written here in this verse. Dave asks were do we draw the line? ROb replies, line upon line, here a little, there a little, all over the torah. Where is the word "Saraph" mentioned? It's not used to reference mankind. It is a word to reference angels that burn with glory near the throne of GOD. youtu.be/BO13BSSjsYUYou might like this video, talks about the points on your last post Comparing Ezek 28 and Isa 14, and the saraph being. A short video, 14 minutes, made by scholars. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 22, 2023 6:50:36 GMT -5
Rob" Why does GOD allow the murderer to murder humans ? Dave" Human kill humans – why is man the only animal that will hunt his own kind? Rob" I did not ask this question Dave. Notice the verse:- Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. THis verse says several things 1) The serpent only tells lies. Jeff Benner is wrong, deceiving Eve with truth, is still falsehood and a lie against God. This is your assumption – please show me you scripture calling deception a sin. If the serpent lied – then you do not believe in the promise of salvation------------------------ He was a murderer from the beginning, Definition of entropy--------------------------- When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. Correct – all the Beast could see was SELF – thought he was alone – the only oneThe Hypostasis of the ArchonsOpening his eyes, he saw a vast quantity of matter without limit; and he became arrogant, saying, "It is I who am God, and there is none other apart from me". When he said this, he sinned against the entirety. And a voice came forth from above the realm of absolute power, saying, "You are mistaken, Samael" – which is, 'god of the blind'. 2) Jesus calls the shedim Satan Devil a murderer that murders humans.Yes – this is your assumption – where is your scripture of demons / archon killing manHow do we know the Devil is an agency inside humans urging them to murder other humans?YEP – humans kill humnansJob 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. Notice Satan was powering the humans to kill other Job's children.YEP – humans kill humansDave" Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Rob" Yes this is true, but not the question I placed before you. Humans can sin and thus murder other humans without an agency empowering them.Sure – most evil is just one man against another James 1"14, humans are also quite capable of sinning all by themselves.- DUH--------------------- Dave" So you teach that because Adam sinned – God stopped loving him? What nonsense! Rob" Again you are adding and twisting things I did not say. You say Adam fell from God’s Grace Grace = God’s unrequited love So you claim that Adam fell from God’s love ABSOLUTE NONESENSE-------------------------- The topic at hand you presented was, 3- It teaches a weak God – God tried to make a tov world – but couldn't – was not able – your satan god prevent Him And I replied to this weird idea, that a sinning cherub cannot and did not prevent GOD from doing what God wanted to do, You argue that God made a tov world – then it all corrupted You argue that this worlds is fallen – no longer God tov creation – but all corrupted by your satan god
You argue no death – and no lunch before man sinned Then all God’s creation corrupted – your satan touched the DNA of everythingPlease make up your mind - it is so hard you know your beliefs – they change from post to post-------------------- Dave" I have answered this question over and over No law broken – only arrogant ignorance spoken Was the Satan sinning from the beginning as John and Jesus says? DO you agree? Dave would answer NO, Robert – your game play is so boreing – please read my answer The Hypostasis of the ArchonsOpening his eyes, he saw a vast quantity of matter without limit; and he became arrogant, saying, "It is I who am God, and there is none other apart from me". When he said this, he sinned against the entirety. And a voice came forth from above the realm of absolute power, saying, "You are mistaken, Samael" – which is, 'god of the blind'. Show me the law that is broken – no laws given in Gen 1:2Jesus called the shedim Satan Devil a murderer, and this is clearly breaking the moral laws of GODSorry Robert – entropy = God's Second Law of Thermodynamics----------------------------- You say the sinning angels were declared by GOD in the creation as tov. This is out of context. God declares the creation over the frozen planet with sinning angels on it, as very good. Not declared the sinning angels as very good. They are sinners and banished to earth for a reason in the past. Gen 1:31 And God seeth all that He hath done, and lo, very good; and there is an evening, and there is a morning—day the sixth.
All that He had made – including the beast / archon - and all of it together = very good (tov)------------------------- Obviously God loved the sinning angels too, Yet you teach they fell from God’s love – God’s unrequited Grace------------------------- Dave" Scripture uses the metaphor of Christ being the Lamb of God Question – are there now two? One Christ and one Lamb of God Scripture uses the metaphor of the King being a covering cherub – you demand this to become two different beings Rob" I asked you before if you written poetry and understand the use of similes in poetry? You do not seem to understand. Poetry is the art of writing two stories that are literal but parallel each other as similes of each other. So answer the question – is Christ and the Lamb of God now two different beings?----------------------------- Dave" Where do you draw the line -? Rob" Hmm? First you need to admit GOD invented poetry in His messages for a reason, to show us things about GOD, using stories we humans can relate to. You do not seem to understand this idea at all. Correct – you are a Covenant doctrine – NOT dispensation If scripture says something – it always means something else Scripture is an allegory and people need the key code of assumptions to understand
These people need someone else to tell them what scripture says – Robert has Ellen White as an interpreter Wasn't this the position of the Roman Catholic Church for 1500 years - you can't read it - we will interpret it for you
While I am a dispensationalist – scripture says what it means Any man is able to read and know scripture for himself and further teaching comes only with the help of the Holy Spirit - the Comforter---------------------------- Mt 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Jesus is not calling Peter to be an opposer of Christ, but because Peter is listening to the voice of the opposer of Christ, called Satan. Where do temptations come from, if not from a voice of the adversary within our conscience? Peter was not possessed by your satan – but - Peter was hindering the chosen path of Jesus This same thing is mentioned in Acts Ac 13:8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.I thought you doubt the existence of the archon / Jinn / demons 9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,You deny that Paul can be filled by the Holy Spirit – Baptism of the Holy Spirit is of the devil you say Where are your answers to my questions?This is a two way discussion – or is is over You ask the same questions over and over hoping I’ll change my answers – same answers for 4 years – boring You leave 100s of unanswered question here – because your have no answers – because you have an incomplete theology – you are addicted to satan – satan is your only focus – Exk 28 is the only scripture you know You worship the wrong God --------------------------------- 1- If you insist that he Darkness of Gen 1:2 is of sins against God Why does God say – that all of His creation was tov? 2- You say your God does no harm – why the 10 plagues against Egypt? Why did God harden Pharaoh's heart. Why did your God personally kill all the first born – even the innocent newborns Just to rescue Israel from Egypt – why did all this happen? It is the same answer as 3- Why did God choose the 1% to face off against the 99% and their other gods all through the OT Same answer as 4- Of all the most ancient nations, cultures, or language – why is it that Israel, Judaism, and Hebrew are still alive and well 5- Is 1948 Israel prophetic Ellen White teaches that the Church has replaced Israel – so the saga of the Jews is over – they are lost – 8:32 – Dispensationalist see Israel and the Church as two separate things Israel must be in the Promised Land as a nation facing its enemies Ezk 40-48Zec 12:8 In that day Adonai will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem so that the weakest among them that day will be like David and the house of David will be like God—like the angel of Adonai before them. Zec 12:9 It will happen in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. Zec 12:10 “Then I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication, when they will look toward Me whom they pierced. they will look toward Me whom they pierced. The remnant of the Jews – in Jerusalem – at the end of days 11:40 – I – I – I – The LORD – I – they will look on me Jesus Christ is God in human flesh – God incarnate Once you accept a lie – you are forced to deny non-supporting scripture
If Israel is not prophetic – please explain Zec 12 + Ezk 40-48
------------------------------ 6- Who is Allah It is not a hard questions 7- What role does Islam play in Biblical end time prophesies 8- are UFOs real – with real life forms inside – who are they? 9- What does this verse mean alongside Rev 9 Mat 24:37 “For just as the days of Noah were, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 10 – why do you deny the eternal spirit – how do you have eternal life without it?
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Post by Dillon on Jul 22, 2023 10:22:39 GMT -5
This is too easy. Even I can play
1- If you insist that he Darkness of Gen 1:2 is of sins against God Why does God say – that all of His creation was tov?
Because it was exactly as God meant it to be. Right down to the smallest detail. tov and the ra
2- You say your God does no harm – why the 10 plagues against Egypt?
Why did God harden Pharaoh's heart. Why did your God personally kill all the first born – even the innocent newborns Just to rescue Israel from Egypt – why did all this happen?
To prove / demonstrate to the whole world – God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the one true God
It is the same answer as 3- Why did God choose the 1% to face off against the 99% and their other gods all through the OT
To prove / demonstrate to the whole world – God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the one true God
Same answer as 4- Of all the most ancient nations, cultures, or language – why is it that Israel, Judaism, and Hebrew are still alive and well
To prove / demonstrate to the whole world – God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the one true God
You also asked, why does Israel win the final battle of the end times.
To prove / demonstrate to the whole world – God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the one true God
5- Is 1948 Israel prophetic
Israel must be in the Promised Land as a nation facing its enemies Ezk 40-48
To prove / demonstrate to the whole world – God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the one true God
11:40 – I – I – I – The LORD – I – they will look on me Jesus Christ is God in human flesh – God incarnate This was a good point, Thank You
Once you accept a lie – you are forced to deny non-supporting scripture
I like your other quote: When your on the right track the pieces simply fit together
6- Who is Allah He is the leader of the false gods of Canaan and Chaldea He is Beelzebub – Baal – Molech – a devil – a satan
7- What role does Islam play in Biblical end time prophesies
Israel must be in the Promised Land as a nation facing its enemies Ezk 40-48
To prove / demonstrate to the whole world – God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the one true God
8- are UFOs real – with real life forms inside – who are they?
They are the ejected Nephilim from this world. They are not gods. They are demi-gods and therefore require vehicles. They are the principalities of heavenly places. They are alien archon here to offer man an alternative to Biblical creation
9- What does this verse mean alongside Rev 9 Mat 24:37 “For just as the days of Noah were, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward
10 – why do you deny the eternal spirit – how do you have eternal life without it?
Robert will say he doesn’t deny the spirit, but he is using a bait and switch. You are talking about A. He is talking about B which is something completely different.
Robert thinks by calling it by the same name solves his delima, but it doesn’t
I did not grow up in a synagogue, but I also believe (have always been taught) man existed from the beginning. Man watched as God laid out the Mountains and the rivers Man watched Adam and Eve in the Garden Deep inside we are all born with a memory of the truth, because we saw it all, we experienced it all
I also believe (have always been taught) from God we came – and to God we will return
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Post by rob on Jul 22, 2023 17:04:49 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
Dave" This is your assumption – please show me you scripture calling deception a sin. If the serpent lied – then you do not believe in the promise of salvation Rob"Joh 8:44 ...there is no truth in him.
RobPP" He was a murderer from the beginning, Dave" Definition of entropy Rob" The torah is correct, the Devil removed the and wounded many angels that sinned with him, taking away their chances to repent, though many did repent, many could not because they left the repentance too late, and became seared with consciences full of pride. Hence GOD calls the Devil a murderer "ratsach", and this is a correct description. The devil did not hareg anybody, so specifcally no angel was killed. Only they lost their salvation.
Dave" where is your scripture of demons / archon killing man Rob" Must you have all evidence in order to drop your GNostic writings?
The devil was trying to kill Jesus by getting Jesus to do something in his powers of self, without using faith powers from His Father.
DO you need a verse?
Mt 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be.....
Joh 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.fall down and worship me.
Again after many failures of tempting Jesus, the Devil thought about killing Jesus, and hoping Jesus would not go through this lamb offering of HIs, but instead the Devil arranged a cruel death, hoping Jesus would call off His death, but again the Devil failed.
Satan uses humans to do his dirty work most times "something you are proud to write"
Most miracles Jesus did was to cast out demon possession of humans. The devils were stopping the humans from seeking salvation and using their free will to choose.
Dave" YEP – humans kill humans Rob" So you refuse to see Satan as an agency for sin. I suppose you also refuse to see Satan as the prince of this world, who rules over his kingdom of sinning humans.
Dave" Show me the law that is broken – no laws given in Gen 1:2 Rob" I see, the ten commandments are not eternal?
Ps 119:152 ¶ Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever.
Ps 119:44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.
Ps 119:86 All thy commandments are faithful:
Ps 119:89 ..O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.
Ps 119:90 Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth.
Ps 119:96 ..thy commandment is exceeding broad.
Ps 119:142 ¶ Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
Ps 119:160 ¶ Thy word is true from the beginning:
Dave" Yet you teach they fell from God’s love – God’s unrequited Grace Rob" Every time a creature sins, they fall from Grace. 1 John 4 also speaks of a sin NOT unto death, so some sins are covered by God's grace. Such a process depends upon your relationship and faith in your Saviour.
Dave" So answer the question – is Christ and the Lamb of God now two different beings? ROb" Jesus is one divine person and a member of the Divine Family of heavenly power. The simile of being a Lamb, is the willingness of Jesus to lay down his life for sin offering.
The two stories are distinct and separate. Yet parallels run between both. This is how poetry works.
Dave" Scripture is an allegory and people need the key code of assumptions to understand Rob" Scripture is poetry and you need the HS as the key to help you understsand.
Dave" Robert has Ellen White as an interpreter Rob" Dave has his Gnostic writings as your interpreter.
Dave" we will interpret it for you Rob" Ellen White is a Hebrew English translator, not really an interpreter...
Dave" only with the help of the Holy Spirit Rob" Without me ye can do nothing. Dave" Peter was not possessed by your satan – but - Peter was hindering the chosen path of Jesus Rob" You do not have Satan as a prince ruling the mind of men do you, so you possession idea cannot ever raise it's ugly head, but I disagree with you, Peter listened to the voice of Satan and ran with his self ideas as well. An agency functions as a catalyst and influence.
Dave" I thought you doubt the existence of the archon / Jinn / demons ROb" The sinning angels exist as "archons", yes, I do not doubt their powers, but GOD controls this planet for a reason, otherwise all humans , especially straight ones would be killed by the devils.
Dave" You deny that Paul can be filled by the Holy Spirit – Baptism of the Holy Spirit is of the devil you say Rob" explain. Baptism is the process of the HS empowering you with the breath of salvation from Jesus.
Does GNostic teachers you have the HS alone within you, ie filled only by the Holy Spirit? How does this function for one divine person with three forms? How can the Father dwell in a less perfect human and not kill the human with the Father's glory?
My theory is easy when you consider the HS functioning as a medium, mediums allow the Father and the SON to enter humans without killing them by their glory.
Dave" Where are your answers to my questions? ROb" what questions? QUestions have 1) numbers and ? on the end. I did not see any Dave?
Dave" You ask the same questions over and over hoping I’ll change my answers – same answers for 4 years – boring ROb" You refuse to acknowledge the torah. You only follow GNostic writings.
Dave" 1- If you insist that he Darkness of Gen 1:2 is of sins against God Why does God say – that all of His creation was tov? ROb" tov does not mean "good" it means "functional".
God was able to functionally allow sinning angels to exist on a planet with a perfect creation over it, allowing both tov and ra to exist together, finely tuned science says.
light and night / God and RA, existed from day one. Yes it was functional.
Why was this done? to allow a sinning planet to exist for the first time in all the other sinless worlds to watch.
Dave" 2- You say your God does no harm – why the 10 plagues against Egypt? ROb" There is no command that says "no hareg"
God can hareg you if you refuse to salvation.
Dave" Why did God harden Pharaoh's heart. ROb" God sees the beginning from the end, Pharoah hardened his own heart. God is not mocked a man reaps what he sows
Dave" 3- Why did God choose the 1% to face off against the 99% and their other gods all through the OT Rob " do not understand
Dave" 4- Of all the most ancient nations, cultures, or language – why is it that Israel, Judaism, and Hebrew are still alive and well ROb " because Hebrew is the language of heaven, the Edenics given to man.
Dave" 5- Is 1948 Israel prophetic Ellen White teaches that the Church has replaced Israel – so the saga of the Jews is over – they are lost – Rob" I do not believe so. Have you read this yourself? I have no experience in this question?
Dave" 6- Who is Allah Rob" No experience. ALAH is the Hebrew spelling for the Most HIgh, so something is right. Vieth says otherwise.
I have no experience in your question, and studied the koran a little.
Dave" 7- What role does Islam play in Biblical end time prophesies Rob" The Muslems are in Rev 11 and Rev 9. I think ? as a power like scorpions
Dve" 8- are UFOs real – with real life forms inside – who are they? ROb" They are sinning angels preparing mankind for the devil's entry as Jesus coming the second time in some flying machine and this false Jesus walks on the earth in front of TV cameras, etc. Deceiving many.
Dave" 9- What does this verse mean alongside Rev 9 Mat 24:37 “For just as the days of Noah were, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Rob" We have our own experiences? YOurs would be different?
Dave" 10 – why do you deny the eternal spirit – how do you have eternal life without it? ROb" Man exists in partnership with GOD as a living soul. THis arrangement is already eternal. Hence eternal life is simply allowing this partnership to continue forever.
Only sin breaks this partnership.
Greetings Dillon
Dillon" Because it was exactly as God meant it to be. Right down to the smallest detail. tov and the ra
ROb" correct.
Dillon" To prove / demonstrate to the whole world – God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the one true God Rob" correct" also a poetry figure for the ending of sinning people.
Dillon" He is the leader of the false gods of Canaan and Chaldea He is Beelzebub – Baal – Molech – a devil – a satan ROb" Interesting, using the correct spelling for the Most HIgh.
Dillon" They are the ejected Nephilim from this world Rob" I would disagree with you my friend on this.
Dillon" Robert will say he doesn’t deny the spirit, but he is using a bait and switch. You are talking about A. He is talking about B which is something completely different.
Robert thinks by calling it by the same name solves his delima, but it doesn’t Rob" Hmm? I would disagree with you my friend on this.
Enjoy your week both of you.
Dave I hear Yellowstone is on fire? Arn't you in the path of volcanic fall out?
Funny winter over here. USA is getting hot days? Next world event is climate change.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 23, 2023 1:23:05 GMT -5
Dave" This is your assumption – please show me you scripture calling deception a sin. If the serpent lied – then you do not believe in the promise of salvation Rob"Joh 8:44 ...there is no truth in him. God said – of you eat of it you will מות תמות׃ - die present tense infinity + die future imperative tense The Serpent said you will NOT מות תמות - die present tense infinity + die future imperative tenseYou claim the words of the serpent are a lie You agree with God – the only option for sin = mortal death and the Second death in the Lake of Fire You deny repentance - 50 Bible Verses about Repentance from Sin https://www.biblelyfe.com › blog › bible-verses-about-re... You deny forgiveness50 Bible Verses About Forgiveness https://parade.com › Life You deny salvationIsa 12:2 Behold, God is my salvation! 57 Bible Verses on Salvation https://www.biblelyfe.com › blog › 57-bible-verses-on... Once you buy into a lie – you must deny a lot of scripture to keep your doctrine safeI am a Jewish favoring Christian – I do not believe that the only option for sin is mortal death and eventual second death in the Lake of Fire I believe in the option of repentance I believe in the forgiveness for my sins I believe in salvation Why don’t you? – Why do you say it is a lie? --------------------------- Dave" where is your scripture of demons / archon killing man Rob" Must you have all evidence in order to drop your GNostic writings? YES – you say nonsense and I want the scripture that validate your wordsThe devil was trying to kill JesusSo your god of evil wanted to open salvation to all mankind and usher in the Age of the gentile
I thought your satan hates God and opposes God Now you say your satan was helping God facilitate His Will upon earthCan you possibly make up your mind ------------------------------- DO you need a verse? Mt 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be..... YES Robert – satan tempted / tested Jesus the Son of man But Christ said
Mat 4:7 Yeshua said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put Adonai your God to the test.’”
Christ = God – God incarnate ----------------------- Satan uses humans to do his dirty work most times Correct – however satanas cannot force anyone to do anything – all he does is plant the idea – man chooses if it is a good idea or not------------------------------------ Dave" Show me the law that is broken – no laws given in Gen 1:2 Rob" I see, the ten commandments are not eternal? Explain how your assumption fits with scripture Rom 5:13 For up until the Torah, sin was in the world; but sin does not count as sin when there is no law. You are trying your best to contradict scripture – not acceptable--------------------------------------------- Dave" Yet you teach they fell from God’s love – God’s unrequited Grace Rob" Every time a creature sins, they fall from Grace.Absolutely impossible – no such animal Grace = God’s unrequited Love God still loves the sinner – it is the nature of God ---------------------------- Dave" So answer the question – is Christ and the Lamb of God now two different beings? ROb" The simile of being a Lamb, is the willingness of Jesus to lay down his life for sin offering. So the metaphor does NOT become a new and different being – except in Ezk 28
Can you give another scriptural example where the metaphor is more real than the literal scripture?---------------------------------------- Dave" Scripture is an allegory and people need the key code of assumptions to understandQuote me accurately – Dave said – people that preach Covenant Theology (a basic principle of the Catholic Church) say scripture is an allegory – scripture always means something else
People who practice Covenant Theology depend on a series of assumptions to interpret scripture – depending on the assumptions they use the outcome interpretation can be wide ranging
While people like me are dispensationalist and see scripture more literalRob" Scripture is poetry and you need the HS as the key to help you understsand.Yes there is poetry within scripture - but all scripture is not an allagoryDave" Robert has Ellen White as an interpreter Rob" Dave has his Gnostic writings as your interpreter. Look at how very disingenuous you are You have told me more than once Ellen White tells you how to view scriptureRob" Ellen White is a Hebrew English translator, not really an interpreter… A translator reads the original then then gives you their own version of whats being said
No wonder you claim you do not need to learn to translate Hebrew to translate scripture-------------------- Dave" Peter was not possessed by your satan – but - Peter was hindering the chosen path of Jesus Rob" You do not have Satan as a prince ruling the mind of men do you, so you possession idea cannot ever raise it's ugly head, but I disagree with you, When God opposed Balaam – did your satan enter God and force God to do things------------------------------ Dave" You deny that Paul can be filled by the Holy Spirit – Baptism of the Holy Spirit is of the devil you say Rob" explain. Baptism is the process of the HS empowering you with the breath of salvation from Jesus. You have no idea of what you speakDoes GNostic teachers you have the HS alone within you, ie filled only by the Holy Spirit? How does this function for one divine person with three forms? How can the Father dwell in a less perfect human and not kill the human with the Father's glory?Correct – you have all these assumptions that help you deny the spirit – deny the Comforter – deny Christ within us – deny the Baptism of the Holy Spirit---------------- Dave" Where are your answers to my questions? ROb" what questions? The same ones I have been asking you Dave" You ask the same questions over and over hoping I’ll change my answers – same answers for 4 years – boring ROb" You refuse to acknowledge the Ellen White torah. YES – I absolutely deny Ezk 28 has anything to do with a fallen angel – it is a Catholic myth----------------------- Dave" 1- If you insist that he Darkness of Gen 1:2 is of sins against God Why does God say – that all of His creation was tov? ROb" tov does not mean "good" it means "functional".Easy – all you have to do is redefine the wordH2896 – טוֹב – ṭôb - From H2895; good (as an adjective) in the widest sense; used likewise as a noun, both in the masculine and the feminine, the singular and the plural (good, a good or good thing, a good man or woman; the good, goods or good things, good men or women), also as an adverb (well): - beautiful, best, better, bountiful, cheerful, at ease, X fair (word), (be in) favour, fine, glad, good (deed, -lier, liest, -ly, -ness, -s), graciously, joyful, kindly, kindness, liketh (best), loving, merry, X most, pleasant, + pleaseth, pleasure, precious, prosperity, ready, sweet, wealth, welfare, (be) well ([-favoured]). God was able to functionally allow sinning angels to exist on a planet with a perfect creation over it, allowing both tov and ra to exist together, finely tuned science says.
light and night / God and RA, existed from day one.
Yes it was functional.WOW – what a change in doctrine from you God made only a tov world – and when Eve sinned nothing happened – but when Adam sinned – all the world fell – became fallen WOW – what a change in doctrine from youNothing ever had sex – or ate lunch until Adam sinned ---------------------- Dave" 2- You say your God does no harm – why the 10 plagues against Egypt? ROb" There is no command that says "no hareg"God murdered the first born of Egypt – this includes innocent newborn babiesGod can hareg you if you refuse to salvation.God can murder you immediately after you are bornDave" Why did God harden Pharaoh's heart. ROb" God sees the beginning from the end, Pharoah hardened his own heart. God is not mocked a man reaps what he sows Either you do not know your scripture – or you are deliberately misquoting it to misleadExo 10:1 Then Adonai said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh, because I have hardened his heart and the heart of his servants, so that I might show these My signs in their midst, Exo 10:20 But Adonai hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he did not let Bnei-Yisrael go. ---------------------- Dave" 3- Why did God choose the 1% to face off against the 99% and their other gods all through the OT Rob " do not understandOf course you do – you are just unwilling to answer So your version is that the nation of Israel got along well with all of their neighbors – were they especially friendly to the tribes they were performing genocide upon – and the other-gods of these neighboring people never bothered Israel in any way – everyone within the OT was nice and friendly with Israel
You live in a fantasyDave" 5- Is 1948 Israel prophetic Ellen White teaches that the Church has replaced Israel – so the saga of the Jews is over – they are lost – Rob" I do not believe so. Have you read this yourself?What I know about her comes straight from you I have no experience in this question?We have been all over this question before Is 1948 Israel Prophetic? You made 14 post on that thread Were you lying to us then – or lying to us nowDave" 6- Who is Allah Rob" No experience. ALAH is the Hebrew spelling for the Most HIgh, so something is right. You say Allah is YHWY – or another Most High?7- What role does Islam play in Biblical end time prophesies Rob" The Muslems are in Rev 11 and Rev 9. I think ? as a power like scorpions How very verse you are with scripture – 28 years and have never read it allDve" 8- are UFOs real – with real life forms inside – who are they? ROb" They are sinning angels No such animalDave" 9- What does this verse mean alongside Rev 9 Mat 24:37 “For just as the days of Noah were, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Rob" We have our own experiences? YOurs would be different?There is only one scriptural truth – not your truth or my truth Dave" 10 – why do you deny the eternal spirit – how do you have eternal life without it? ROb" Man exists in partnership with GOD as a living soul. THis arrangement is already eternal. Hence eternal life is simply allowing this partnership to continue forever. But you deny it continues forever – it starts at different times and then stops – then wakes up and starts again Greetings DillonYou should thank him for answering your questions that you said were too difficult for you - cheater
Dillon" Robert will say he doesn’t deny the spirit, but he is using a bait and switch. You are talking about A. He is talking about B which is something completely different. Robert thinks by calling it by the same name solves his delima, but it doesn’t Rob" Hmm? I would disagree with you my friend on this. You know that the ruwach of man (spirit of man) that Christians and Jews hold to be true – is nothing like your limited view You do not even believe man has a spirit – you say man is empowered by the Holy Spirit
Please comment on Dillon's post about Zec 12As I said I love it. Thank You
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Post by Dave on Jul 23, 2023 13:42:51 GMT -5
Dave" Yet you teach they fell from God’s love – God’s unrequited Grace Rob" Every time a creature sins, they fall from Grace.Absolutely impossible – no such animal Grace = God’s unrequited Love God still loves the sinner – it is the nature of God What the Bible Says About Grace - Compassion Internationalhttps://www.compassion.com › Christian Faith Grace is the basis for the Christian faith. We believe we are saved by faith through grace. God's grace is usually defined asGrace is the basis for the Christian faith. We believe we are saved by faith through grace. God's grace is usually defined as undeserved favor. Grace cannot be earned; it is something that is freely given. We count on God's grace and the bridge he built in our relationship with him. undeserved favorI defined it as God’s unrequited love – He loves us even when we deny Him – refuse Him – ignores Him How is it possible to fall from this? How is it possible God’s love for you will ever stop? What a harmful teaching you have – even your angels fallGrace | Definition, Description, Christianity, & Beliefshttps://www.britannica.com › ... › Spirituality Grace, in Christian theology, the spontaneous, unmerited gift of the divine favor in the salvation of sinners, and the divine influence operating in ... unmerited gift of the divine favor in the salvation of sinners,I defined it as God’s unrequited love – He loves us even when we deny Him – refuse Him – ignores Him How is it possible to fall from this? How is it possible God’s love for you will ever stop? What a harmful teaching you have – even your angels fallWhat is Grace? Bible Meaning and Definitionhttps://www.biblestudytools.com › dictionary › grace An accurate, common definition describes grace as the unmerited favor of God toward man. In the Old Testament, the term that most often is translated "grace ... the unmerited favor of God toward manI defined it as God’s unrequited love – He loves us even when we deny Him – refuse Him – ignores Him How is it possible to fall from this? How is it possible God’s love for you will ever stop? What a harmful teaching you have – even your angels fallWhat is Grace? Understanding Christian Meaninghttps://www.christianity.com › wiki › what-is-grace In Christian terms, grace can be defined as “God's favor toward the unworthy” or “God's benevolence on the undeserving.” In His grace, God is willing to forgive .. God's favor toward the unworthy” or “God's benevolence on the undeserving.” I defined it as God’s unrequited love – He loves us even when we deny Him – refuse Him – ignores Him How is it possible to fall from this? How is it possible God’s love for you will ever stop? What a harmful teaching you have – even your angels fallGrace | Definition, Description, Christianity, & Beliefshttps://www.britannica.com › ... › Spirituality Grace, in Christian theology, the spontaneous, unmerited gift of the divine favor in the salvation of sinners, spontaneous, unmerited gift of the divine favor in the salvation of sinners, I defined it as God’s unrequited love – He loves us even when we deny Him – refuse Him – ignores Him How is it possible to fall from this? How is it possible God’s love for you will ever stop? What a harmful teaching you have – even your angels fallRob" Every time a creature sins, they fall from Grace.ABSOLUTE SATANIC RUBBISH promoted by Rome and their Fallen Angels------------------------------------ Dave" Peter was not possessed by your satan – but - Peter was hindering the chosen path of Jesus Rob" You do not have Satan as a prince ruling the mind of men do you, so you possession idea cannot ever raise it's ugly head, but I disagree with you, When God opposed Balaam – did your satan enter God and force God to do things Do you teach your satan god can possess the Creator? YES – possession is very real indeedMany times it is seen as a mental health issue – end result – these possessed people become dysfunctional – not helpful to society Sometimes it is more subtle – the Alpha Male Syndrome(yester ra) SELF importance – put a group of men together and one will emerge as the Alpha Male – depending on the group – sometimes it becomes a struggle to decide the Alpha Male – fighting over the right to rule. George Carlin - Bigger Dick Foreign PolicyThis is crude and rude but perfectly on topic and funny - the Alpha Male Syndrome It is hard to tell when simple (yester ra) Alpha Male – is satanically pushed toward the denial of one’s ‘human rights’ - Communism in general – Mao – Xi - Putin - Hitler of yesterday? Neapolitan before that? Many war lords throughout history? Serial killers? Rarely – is it as demonic as Hollywood likes to make it Rob" You do not have Satan as a prince ruling the mind of men do you, so you possession idea cannot ever raise it's ugly head, but I disagree with you, What an asinine assumptionYou invent a statement just so you can disagree with it Of course possession is real – BUT – your satan does not possess all humanity – man is perfectly capable of being evil all by himself.
No your satan god of evil does not rule the minds of all mankind.Man lives in the archon’s domain – this is their world - and as per Gen 3:15 they sure help make life hard for us No your satan god of evil does not rule the minds of all mankind.Your mind operates via (yester ra) balanced with (yester tov) and why men struggle with making decisions – only men stop to consider – is it the right thing to do? Your mind operates via (yester ra) balanced with (yester tov) What I want and desire for myself – (yester ra) balanced what I should do – (yester tov) Jas 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”—for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He himself tempts no one. Correct – God has a staff for thatGod ordered the hit / test / contest upon Job – and sent satan to do the dirty job God placed Adam and Eve in the Garden and human nature took its course Jas 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is dragged away and enticed by his own desire. (yester ra) is not aven (an evil propensity) but it can lead to it
All the archon / Principalities / Jinn / demons / shedim do is feed our desire – our worldly desires Today – sex / porn / money / sports / gambling / work / education-(evolution) – technology – aliens – UFOs – worries of our own governments all keep us sidetracked – all keep us away from devotion to the Holy SpiritThe Hypostasis of the ArchonsMoreover, they threw mankind into great distraction and into a life of toil, so that their mankind might be occupied by worldly affairs, and might not have the opportunity of being devoted to the holy spirit. Anything to distract us so we miss the boat – miss the mark – failed to succeed Jas 1:15 Then when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is full grown, it brings forth death. --------------------------------------------- God was able to functionally allow sinning angels to exist on a planet with a perfect creation over it, allowing both tov and ra to exist together, finely tuned science says.
light and night / God and RA, existed from day one.
Yes it was functional.WOW – what a change in doctrine from you Yes it was functional.- finely tuned science says. Balanced with both tov and ra operating under God’s Laws of Nature 1st Law of Thermodynamics – Energy cannot be created or destroyed only translated or transmuted E = mc 2 - God (E) created the heavens (c 2) and the earth. (m) 2nd Law of Thermodynamics = entropy – necessary for the cycles of nature to function YES – as revealed to man by Roman’s 1:19-20 Your vegetarian sharks are absolute fantasyThe Creation Institute’s failure to engage in peer review only proves it cannot stand in the realm of real science Gen 1:2 Now the earth was chaos and waste, darkness was on the surface of the deep, and the Ruach Elohim was hovering upon the surface of the water. Nebular Theory (Emanual Kant 1754) + standard planet formation theory (Cameron 1962) + WEDD + FD-WEDT Gen 1:3 Then God said, “Let there be light!” and there was light. Even the delay in light formation is in agreement with current scienceGen 1:6 Then God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the water! Let it be for separating water from water.” Gen 1:7 So God made the expanse and it separated the water that was below the expanse from the water that was over the expanse. And it happened so. WEDD + FD-WEDT – Earth began as a Gas giant protoplanet with planetoid Pangea at its coreGen 1:11 Then God said, “Let the land sprout grass, green plants yielding seed, fruit trees making fruit, each according to its species with seed in it, upon the land.” And it happened so. Plants before the sun – cyanobacteria – need minimal light - produce O2 – the oldest fossils every discoveredGen 1:16 Then God made the two great lights—the greater light for dominion over the day, and the lesser light as well as the stars for dominion over the night. Gen 1:17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to shine on the land Gen 1:18 and to have dominion over the day and over the night and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 1) Either this is the creation event for the sun and moon 2)or just when they became visible through the large gas giant atm firmament above 3) Perhaps this is when our sun ignited and the sun and reflecting moon became visible through the gas giant atm firmament above
Gen 1:20 Then God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures! Let flying creatures fly above the land across the expanse of the sky.” Gen 1:21 Then God created the large sea creatures and every living creature that crawls, Gen 1:24 Then God said, “Let the land bring forth living creatures chaos - plants before the sun - Swims – flys - crawls - on land - same order as evolution
Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, chaos - plants before the sun - Swims – flys - crawls - on land – man same order as evolution – How could any scientist not see this ORDER of creationThe mistake Rom 1:19 because what can be known about God is plain to them—for God has shown it to them. Rom 1:20 His invisible attributes—His eternal power and His divine nature—have been clearly seen ever since the creation of the world, being understood through the things that have been made. So people are without excuse— Rom 1:21 for even though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or give Him thanks. Instead, their thinking became futile, and their senseless hearts were made dark. Rom 1:22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools. Rom 1:23 They exchanged the glory of the immortal God for an image in the form of mortal man and birds and four-footed beasts and creeping things. Evolutionist and current science does not give the credit to God
Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them over in the evil desires of their hearts to impurity, to dishonor their bodies with one another. AND – my western Caucasian culture is overwhelmed right now by the LGBT-XYZ Movement
Incremental Creation – God did it all – God did things at different increments – maybe just 6 increments (Days) – or maybe many increments each dayCreationist rush to Day 6 and man Incremental creation allows God the time to stop and smell the roses after their creation If the order of Biblical creation is the same scientific empirical evidence – then the science of many different scientific specialties are all validating Genesis as to orderPlus – the scientific movement toward Intelligent Design
Incremental Creation – allowing the educated to give the glory to God
Adam and Eve – were separated form the world at large – they were in a different location Eden never fell – Eden never corrupted – Adam and Eve were relocated from Eden to world The animals did not change – the plants did not change – Adam and Eve were simply relocated
Eden still exist – Enoch equated Heaven 3 with Eden awaiting the righteous Rabbi Friedman says Eve stepped DOWN into the lower world from Eden Jewish end times prophesies says man is restored to Eden and the state of Adam before he sinned
All of your Creationist vegetarian sharks are fantasy The Creation Institute and people like Don Patton just give Christianity a bad name The era of just believe the church because it says so is OVER Today we want to see the empirical evidencePlease Please comment on Dillon's post about Zec 12As I said I love it. Thank You How can Robert read this and deny the Trinity?
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