|
Post by Richard on Jun 2, 2023 12:35:41 GMT -5
I would love you to tell me, your version of the truth I do not have a version of my own. All I have is scripture and I would gladly discuss it with you. Dave, as I, both have a strong Presbyterian background per se. Therefore we are grace based in theology not works based. Grant me the pleasure of your understanding of God's grace. He loves you. Even tho you do not deserve it or even desire it, he loves you. In my own words, I use the poetry of a 19th century author named Mary Lathrap who coined the phrase, “Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes.” God came to earth as a man and walked among men. He put on flesh not so we could relate to him, but that he could relate to us. As we take our pain to the lord in prayer, he understands. He has experienced our temptations and our pain, and he is understanding of our confusion. There is only one God and John 1:1 makes it perfectly clear. Jesus Christ was and is God incarnate. Your idea that Christ and God must be two different gods only insults the creators unimaginable power and glory. Your idea that god cannot be in two places at the same time only insults god's abilities. I agree with Dave in the idea it was not his death that saved us, but his resurrection that taught us this world of flesh is an illusion. Shakespeare, “All the world is a stage and we are just performers here”. Faith has nothing to do with culture. As an American, I will never fathom life as a Korean, or even what it means to be English. Life as a Christian has nothing to do with being Catholic or Baptist. To act like a Catholic, or to act like a Baptist is a cultural choice. Neither has anything to do with acting like a Christian. I agree with the Jewish teaching that our mission here is to live for him, not ourselves. Reality is so much larger than man can imagine. Dave and I found one another because of the UFO phenomena. There is a larger reality than we can see. There is a larger reality than just this world of flesh and bone. Regardless of what label you give it, alien, inter-dimensional, angelic, or spiritual. There is an unseen reality all around us. It has been recorded in various ways throughout history. The resurrection of Jesus Christ is the ultimate validation of this fact. Our congregation does not teach satan, we teach salvation through grace. Reality dictates that there are many satans everywhere. When Abram was called out of Ur, the world was already complete with many non-God gods. Thousands of them in Ur, in Egypt, In India, in Canaan. The Old Testament is filled with them. On a personal level, we are all satans loosed upon the earth as we exercise our greed, lust, and desires. This is why I can understand why Dave uses the phrase we are all called to be a Christ. It does not make us THE CHRIST, only that we lead another to Christ. Just as our selfishness doe not make us THE SATAN, only that we lead others away from Christ.
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jun 2, 2023 15:34:03 GMT -5
Just as our selfishness doe not make us THE SATAN, only that we lead others away from Christ.
Rich - Ponder the BEAST - and sin is the nature of the BEAST. Biology – this earthly world is the BEAST. Why the BEAST does not find its home in heaven and why this world is the domain of the BEAST.
Ecc 3:19 (KJV) For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
Robert – why won’t you answer direct questions. If you truly want to start over you need to participate.
|
|
|
Post by rob on Jun 2, 2023 18:40:21 GMT -5
Greetings Richard
Thank you for your reply to my question, which only deepens with more yearning. I agree "Faith has nothing to do with culture." Culture "has anything to do with acting like a Christian" is also correct, so as a Pastor of a congregation, how does faith function in a practical manner in the daily life? Indeed "we teach salvation through grace" is a wonderful truth I also agree with, but I yearn for your understanding of "faith in Jesus" and how this truth functions daily in the one seeking His salvation. Please elaborate.
You are busy, so I limit your reply to this one yearning of mine. It is also the most important to our salvation in Jesus, our God. Shalom
Greetings Dave
I have been coming often to your forum after you deleted me, you have only made two posts since. How are you? I am working as a gardener, so my time on the computer is limited. COVID threat is over for now, but the world stage struggles with the aftermath. I travel 4 hours to work and live on site until the work is over and return home. Our family is well, but is it winter here and very dry.
My understanding of you, is you consider "faith" as a "belief" concept, something of higher knowledge, as the Gnostics term this? Surely "faith" is defined in the torah and the testimonies as a concept we humans can understand? And since Hebrew is a broad based "functional" culture, with "concrete functions" my understand "faith" has to have things we humans can do and see and touch.
Heb 11:1 ¶ Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Sure faith is a power from God, we hope for but is not clearly seen, until it functions in our life.
Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Sure faith comes from hearing the Word, and thus we can read and pray over the Word of God.
But there is also a very different context of this same faith, no-one understands.
Ex 17:12 But Moses' hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were "amanuh" until the going down of the sun.
This context is not about believing, or mental assent. It is more concrete and a Hebrew context about supporting one another.
Scripture speaks of this in another place:
Ho 14:2 Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips.
The child like explanation of "amanuh" or "faith" is to "take with you words".
The word comes in both verb and noun forms.
De 32:2 My "leqach" shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:
The context here is about "faith" as a simile of rain, as a power that makes us grow as grass.
We "take word promises" from the writings, in which to support God, and thus God supports you. That is my understanding of Faith.
Have you experienced this?
For example, before sleeping each night, I pray for the deep sleep of Adam, the shalom peace of God and for God to wake me at 6:00 am. These are three takings of the Word, or Prayer promises in which I support God. And God wakes me at the exact specified time each time, as a small testimony to my support in His words.
Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jun 2, 2023 22:50:53 GMT -5
It is graduation time here. Moving on to college applications and scholarship searches.
My understanding of you, is you consider "faith" as a "belief" concept
Tomatoe – tomato – it is just a word game Belief is all that is required for salvation.
Joh 3:16 (TLV) For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Your attempt to make it more complicated is rejected.
something of higher knowledge, as the Gnostics term this?
It is true – the very first Christians were Pentecostal – believing in and receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit
You can mock the teaching all you want – will never change the facts
Surely "faith" is defined in the torah and the testimonies as a concept we humans can understand? And since Hebrew is a broad based "functional" culture, with "concrete functions" my understand "faith" has to have things we humans can do and see and touch.
You just told Richard - Indeed "we teach salvation through grace" Now you teach salvation is conditional
"faith" has to have things we humans can do and see and touch.
Are you looking for a sign? Are you testing your God? You need to believe – that is all that is required
We "take word promises" from the writings, in which to support God, and thus God supports you. That is my understanding of Faith.
Have you experienced this?
For example, before sleeping each night, I pray for the deep sleep of Adam, the shalom peace of God and for God to wake me at 6:00 am. These are three takings of the Word, or Prayer promises in which I support God. And God wakes me at the exact specified time each time, as a small testimony to my support in His words.
Is is nice you have a consistent religious practice – but your religious practice has nothing to do with salvation.
|
|
|
Post by rob on Jun 3, 2023 4:40:11 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
I guess you are still retired from work since COVID, I have returned to working as I have said, and can reply to you on weekends only. I trust you are in good health, and my regards to your family.
You say my "consistent religious practice" has " nothing to do with salvation." OK? so what is consistent with salvation, if faith is only what you believe, how do you know you are saved by God and bringing glory to His Name?
You have said
You just told Richard - Indeed "we teach salvation through grace" Now you teach salvation is conditional.
Salvation is conditional.
Let me explain:-
1)
Mt 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
You have to have an attitude of gratitude because of what Jesus has done for you, as you have a similar attitude for your fellowman; God treats you.
Lu 7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. (KJV)
Your response to Jesus reflects the loving power Jesus provides for you. This has much to do with your attitude of gratitude.
2) You have said
"faith" has to have things we humans can do and see and touch.
Are you looking for a sign? Are you testing your God? You need to believe – that is all that is required
How do you know you love your wife, unless you respond to that love? How does your wife know you love her, if you do not do anything, or are saying anything? Things relational are always looking for "signs" of communion. Relational partners are always "testing" the communication. We speak lovingly to one another, "testing" the words spoken for emotional tone and content and looking for ways to respond in kind. A relational concept cannot be just about doing nothing and believing in each other as you claim. Such a relationship would tire if nothing happened between them.
That is why Adam went lonely for a help mate, and God provided one within him, and built a personality of loving that was different to the loving Adam already had. This is what being in the image of Elohiym is about, different relational forms of loving and being loved. And you cannot feel such love and loving if you're alone.
How else can you love Jesus unless He allows and wills for you to respond to His infinite gift of His love?
You quote a very famous verse
Joh 3:16 (TLV) For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
This verse has in the Greek the word "pisteuo", which is related to the Hebrew word "amanuah", which is commonly meant to be "faith" also in the Greek "pistis".
You say "Tomatoe – tomato – it is just a word game
Are you saying pisteuo is not the same basic meaning as pistis ?
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
Here we see the word "pisteuo" and the condition to accept Jesus as Lord
Ro 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Here we see both pistis and pisteuo both used in the same context, accepting Jesus as our Lord.
I find in a child like simple manner, the two Greek words are similar to each other and are about faith.
You say "Your attempt to make it more complicated is rejected.
I do not make "faith" complicated. It is simply a word that means to "support" someone.
Aaron and Hur were "supporting" the arms of Moses, and this verse uses the "faith" word, so it cannot mean to believe, it has a very functional meaning.
When Jesus feeds Israel with "man" this too is a biological support of food.
A nail holding something is also "supporting" that object, another picture of the same word.
Like I said, how does your wife know you love her? Does she rely on your belief only? Because you have said I do?
Or does she love the ways you provide and respond to her ways of providing and responding to you? Surely this is how relational love works.
Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Jun 3, 2023 6:26:23 GMT -5
Pastor of a congregation?
It is wrong to think of me as a pastor. If I am a pastor then everyone of our congregation is a pastor, because we all rotate functions within a service, or class. We are all teachers and we are all students.
how does faith function in a practical manner in the daily life?
But your question is a very common question. You are asking how to be a Christian? How to live as a Christian? Let me ask you, Do you know the difference between right and wrong?
If the question is, how do I know I am a Christian? The question answers itself because it exposes doubt.
From reading this forum, your question seems to be what do I have to do to get it right? I am in total agreement with Dave. All you need to do is believe. Believe in your salvation. Believe in the love of the lord. Allow yourself to be loved by the lord. Then share the love with others.
Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; even as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. Joh 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
“If we are the body, let his hands be reaching, let his words be teaching.” Through history we have been known as the Good Men and today we are just the FRIENDS. Our focus is upon praise in everything, even our pain
I yearn for your understanding of "faith in Jesus" and how this truth functions daily in the one seeking His salvation.
Seeking salvation is a selfish pursuit. There is nothing selfish about loving the lord and being grateful for his blessings. If you truly are a seeker of the lord rewards may follow, maybe? What if they don’t? What if you end up persecuted, jailed for your faith, sacrificed for your faith? Would this mean God is not real, or that you are not saved?
Dave - I do not disagree with you. Monsters from the ID
Jeremiah 10:14 (1599 Geneva Bible) 14 Every man is a (a)beast by his own knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his melting is but falsehood, and there is no breath therein.
Footnotes a. Jeremiah 10:14 The more that man thinketh to do anything well by his own wisdom, and not as God instructeth him, the more doth he prove himself to be a vile beast.
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jun 3, 2023 10:23:01 GMT -5
You say my "consistent religious practice" has " nothing to do with salvation."
Correct – a religious practice is just a ritual you do You can go through the motions of being a Catholic, Baptist, Jehovah’s Witness, Muslum, or any pagan religion you choose – it is still just things to do – and it has nothing to do with belief.
OK? so what is consistent with salvation,
Rom 10:9 (TLV) For if you confess with your mouth that Yeshua is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Rom 10:10 For with the heart it is believed for righteousness, and with the mouth it is confessed for salvation.
If you believe it as fact, you cannot stop yourself from sharing it with others – it is the meaning of life, your purpose, your mission here.
Jer 1:5 (TLV) “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you, and before you were born, I set you apart—I appointed you prophet to the nations.”
if faith is only what you believe, how do you know you are saved by God?
If you believe it to be true, why do you doubt it’s true? Doubt indicates a lack of belief.
You just told Richard - Indeed "we teach salvation through grace" Now you teach salvation is conditional. Salvation is conditional. Only on belief.
Joh 3:16 (TLV) For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
This verse has in the Greek the word "pisteuo", which is related to the Hebrew word "amanuah", which is commonly meant to be "faith" also in the Greek "pistis".
Are you saying pisteuo is not the same basic meaning as pistis ?
G4100 - πιστεύω - From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.
If you believe its true then you will trust that it is true
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
Here we see the word "pisteuo" and the condition to accept Jesus as Lord
Yep – Believe that Jesus Christ is God, died a mortal death on the cross, and then rose from the death to continue to preach and comfort – the only condition
You say "Your attempt to make it more complicated is rejected. I do not make "faith" complicated. It is simply a word that means to "support" someone. Aaron and Hur were "supporting" the arms of Moses, and this verse uses the "faith" word, so it cannot mean to believe, it has a very functional meaning.
Exo 17:12 (HOT+) But Moses'H4872 handsH3027 were heavy;H3515 and they tookH3947 a stone,H68 and putH7760 it underH8478 him, and he satH3427 thereon;H5921 and AaronH175 and HurH2354 stayed upH8551 his hands,H3027 the oneH259 on the one side,H4480 H2088 and the otherH259 on the other side;H4480 H2088 and his handsH3027 wereH1961 steadyH530 untilH5704 the going downH935 of the sun.H8121
Sorry Robert the Hebrew word H530 is not in your selected verse – please try to present accurate information – your corruption of scripture does not help you understand the message being conveyed
H530 - 'ĕmûnâh 'ĕmûnâh - Feminine of H529; literally firmness; figuratively security; moral fidelity: - faith (-ful, -ly, -ness, [man]), set office, stability, steady, truly, truth, verily.
Of course faith = moral fedelity – because you believe it to be true
|
|
|
Post by rob on Jun 3, 2023 16:21:30 GMT -5
Greetings Richard Thank you very much for your kind words and encouragement. I shall do as you have suggested and live accordingly to the Word. Greetings Dave I do not understand your post ? You said Sorry Robert the Hebrew word H530 is not in your selected verse – please try to present accurate information – your corruption of scripture does not help you understand the message being conveyedThe Hebrew word amanuh is indeed in Exodus 17:12, (H530), and this source authority shows clearly below:- Brenton Septuagint Translation But the hands of Moses were heavy, and they took a stone and put it under him, and he sat upon it; and Aaron and Or supported his hands one on this side and the other on that, and the hands of Moses were supported till the going down of the sun. (Exodus 17:12) Also the LXX shows the only correct translation into English of the word Amanuh in this verse, but sadly the LXX is not consistent for all other verses using amanuh. Exodus 17:12 Text Analysis Hebrew Strong's Hebrew English Morphology 3027 [e] וִידֵ֤י wî-ḏê But hands Conj-w | N-fdc 4872 [e] מֹשֶׁה֙ mō-šeh Moses' N-proper-ms 3515 [e] כְּבֵדִ֔ים kə-ḇê-ḏîm, [became] heavy Adj-mp 3947 [e] וַיִּקְחוּ־ way-yiq-ḥū- so they took Conj-w | V-Qal-ConsecImperf-3mp 68 [e] אֶ֛בֶן ’e-ḇen a stone N-fs 7760 [e] וַיָּשִׂ֥ימוּ way-yā-śî-mū and put [it] Conj-w | V-Qal-ConsecImperf-3mp 8478 [e] תַחְתָּ֖יו ṯaḥ-tāw under him Prep | 3ms 3427 [e] וַיֵּ֣שֶׁב way-yê-šeḇ and he sat Conj-w | V-Qal-ConsecImperf-3ms 5921 [e] עָלֶ֑יהָ ‘ā-le-hā; on it Prep | 3fs 175 [e] וְאַהֲרֹ֨ן wə-’a-hă-rōn and Aaron Conj-w | N-proper-ms 2354 [e] וְח֜וּר wə-ḥūr and Hur Conj-w | N-proper-ms 8551 [e] תָּֽמְכ֣וּ tā-mə-ḵū supported V-Qal-Perf-3cp 3027 [e] בְיָדָ֗יו ḇə-yā-ḏāw, his hands Prep-b | N-fdc | 3ms 2088 [e] מִזֶּ֤ה miz-zeh on this Prep-m | Pro-ms 259 [e] אֶחָד֙ ’e-ḥāḏ one Number-ms 2088 [e] וּמִזֶּ֣ה ū-miz-zeh and on this Conj-w, Prep-m | Pro-ms 259 [e] אֶחָ֔ד ’e-ḥāḏ, one Number-ms 1961 [e] וַיְהִ֥י way-hî and were Conj-w | V-Qal-ConsecImperf-3ms 3027 [e] יָדָ֛יו yā-ḏāw his hands N-fdc | 3ms 530 [e] אֱמוּנָ֖ה ’ĕ-mū-nāh steady N-fs5704 [e] עַד־ ‘aḏ- until Prep 935 [e] בֹּ֥א bō the going down V-Qal-Inf 8121 [e] הַשָּֽׁמֶשׁ׃ haš-šā-meš. of the sun Art | N-cs biblehub.com/text/exodus/17-12.htmI suggest you review the facts, and explain. Read my earlier post for I truly seek the correct understanding of amanuh, and it's translation into Greek, pistis and it's related words, commonly termed Faith. And according to the first time this word is used, has nothing to do with belief. The word means to "support" something, for every context and verse throughout Scripture. Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jun 3, 2023 23:16:41 GMT -5
I suggest you review the facts, and explain. Read my earlier post for I truly seek the correct understanding of amanuh, and it's translation into Greek, pistis and it's related words, commonly termed Faith.
Brenton Septuagint Translation But the hands of Moses were heavy, and they took a stone and put it under him, and he sat upon it; and Aaron and Or supported his hands one on this side and the other on that, and the hands of Moses were supported till the going down of the sun. (Exodus 17:12)
Also the LXX shows the only correct translation into English of the word Amanuh in this verse, but sadly the LXX is not consistent for all other verses using amanuh.Excuse me? Amanuh is a Hebrew word it does NOT exist within the Greek text Pistis is a Greek word, but it does NOT exist within Exo 17:12Exo 17:12 (LXX) αἱ δὲ χεῖρες Μωυσῆ βαρεῖαι· καὶ λαβόντες λίθον ὑπέθηκαν ὑπ᾿ αὐτόν, καὶ ἐκάθητο ἐπ᾿ αὐτοῦ, καὶ Ααρων καὶ Ωρ ἐστήριζον τὰς χεῖρας αὐτοῦ, ἐντεῦθεν εἷς καὶ ἐντεῦθεν εἷς· καὶ ἐγένοντο αἱ χεῖρες Μωυσῆ ἐστηριγμέναι ἕως δυσμῶν ἡλίου. The Greek word translated loosely as ‘supported’ = G4741 – στηρίζω – stērizō - From a presumed derivative of G2476 (like G4731); to set fast, that is, (literally) to turn resolutely in a certain direction, or (figuratively) to confirm: - fix, (e-) stablish, stedfastly set, strengthen. None of your comments are correct -------------------------------- The Hebrew word amanuh is indeed in Exodus 17:12, (H530), and this source authority shows clearly below:-
Exodus 17:12 Strong's Hebrew English Morphology 530 [e] אֱמוּנָ֖ה ’ĕ-mū-nāh steady N-fsTranslated as steady – Not faith or supportH530 - 'ĕmûnâh 'ĕmûnâh - Feminine of H529; literally firmness; figuratively security; moral fidelity: - faith (-ful, -ly, -ness, [man]), set office, stability, steady, truly, truth, verily. H529 – 'êmûn - From H539; established, that is, (figuratively) trusty; also (abstractly) trustworthiness: - faith (-ful), truth. ----------------------------- Interestingly – the Westminster Leningrad Codex (WHM) doesn’t even have the second half of the verse within its text – No H530 thereוִידֵיH3027 מֹשֶׁהH4872 כְּבֵדִיםH3515 וַיִּקְחוּH3947 אֶבֶןH68 וַיָּשִׂימוּH7760 תַחְתָּיוH8478 וַיֵּשֶׁבH3427 עָלֶיהָH5921 וְאַהֲרֹןH175 וְחוּרH2354 תָּֽמְכוּH8551 ------------------------- (Hebrew to English Interlinear) www.obohu.cz/bible/index.php?kom=MHC&k=Ex&kap=17&v=4&kv=4&styl=WLC#v4But Moses'hands [were] heavy; and they took a stone, and put [it] under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun. Steady - נָה אֱמ – amune - constant-------------------- Let’s see how other translations of the Hebrew readNew American Standard Bible (NASB ©1995) … his hands were steady … King James Version (KJV 1769) his hands were steady English Revised Version (ERV 1885) his hands were steady American Standard Version (ASV 1901) his hands were steady Webster's Revision of the KJB (WEB 1833) his hands were steady Darby's Translation (DBY 1890) his hands were steady Rotherham's Emphasized Bible (EBR 1902) his hands became steady, Young's Literal Translation (YLT 1898) his hands are stedfast Douay-Rheims Challoner Revision (DR 1750) his hands were not weary Geneva Bible (GNV 1560) his hands were steady Original King James Bible (AV 1611) his handes were steady Lamsa Bible (1957) his hands were steady Full Hebrew Names / Holy Name KJV (2008) his hands were steady If you stick to the Hebrew – no one agrees with you--------------------------------------- I do not make "faith" complicated. It is simply a word that means to "support" someone.Here re the 49 uses of the H530 – where do you get your support idea?Exo_17:12 steady H530 Deu_32:4 truth H530 1Sa_26:23 faithfulness: H530 2Ki_12:15 faithfully. H530 2Ki_22:7 faithfully. H530 1Ch_9:22 set office. H530 1Ch_9:26 set office, H530 1Ch_9:31 set office H530 2Ch_19:9 faithfully, H530 2Ch_31:12 faithfully: H530 2Ch_31:15 set office, H530 2Ch_31:18 set office H530 2Ch_34:12 faithfully: H530 Psa_33:4 truth. H530 Psa_36:5 faithfulness H530 Psa_37:3 verily H530 Psa_40:10 faithfulness H530 Psa_88:11 faithfulness H530 Psa_89:1 faithfulness H530 Psa_89:2 faithfulness H530 Psa_89:5 faithfulness H530 Psa_89:8 faithfulness H530 Psa_89:24 faithfulness H530 Psa_89:33 faithfulness H530 Psa_89:49 truth? H530 Psa_92:2 faithfulness H530 Psa_96:13 truth. H530 Psa_98:3 truth H530 Psa_100:5 truth H530 Psa_119:30 truth: H530 Psa_119:75 faithfulness H530 Psa_119:86 faithful: H530 Psa_119:90 faithfulness H530 Psa_119:138 faithful. H530 Psa_143:1 faithfulness H530 Pro_12:17 truth H530 Pro_12:22 truly H530 Pro_28:20 faithful H530 Isa_11:5 faithfulness H530 Isa_25:1 faithfulness H530 Isa_33:6 stability H530 Isa_59:4 truth: H530 Jer_5:1 truth; H530 Jer_5:3 truth? H530 Jer_7:28 truth H530 Jer_9:3 truth H530 Lam_3:23 faithfulness. H530 Hos_2:20 faithfulness: H530 Hab_2:4 faith. H530 The only drift in langage here is by Ezra, who wrote the Book of Ezra, Ezra–Nehemiah, and Chronicles and unlike any other author used H530 to mean ‘a set office’
You need to stop playing word games and learn to translate
------------------------------ Thank you very much for your kind words and encouragement. I shall do as you have suggested and live accordingly to the Word.Is that the word given to us by God through the authors of the Bible Or your version of what it says? Your corruption of the text does not help you grasp its meaning / messageI truly seek the correct understanding of amanuh, and it's translation into Greek, pistis and it's related words, commonly termed Faith.H530 - 'ĕmûnâh 'ĕmûnâh - Feminine of H529; literally firmness; figuratively security; moral fidelity: - faith (-ful, -ly, -ness, [man]), set office, stability, steady, truly, truth, verily. H529 – 'êmûn - From H539; established, that is, (figuratively) trusty; also (abstractly) trustworthiness: - faith (-ful), truth. The truth - firmly held with moral fidelity - steadfast - firmness = faithG4100 - πιστεύω - pisteuō - From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with. G4102 - πίστις - pistis - From G3982; persuasion, that is, credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly constancy in such profession; by extension the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself: - assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity. Believe + trust = assurance = faithif faith is only what you believe, how do you know you are saved by God?If you believe it to be true, why do you doubt it’s true? Doubt indicates a lack of belief.Believe (The truth - firmly held with moral fidelity - steadfast - firmness) + trust = assurance = faithBelieve the truth - there is only one God who created the all - the tov and the ra - who came to earth as a man to witness the truth - He promised the Comforter and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit - and to return as a Roaring Lion cleansing the earth of the stubborn - the final battle will center around Israel and the Middle East.
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Jun 5, 2023 11:51:31 GMT -5
Believe (The truth - firmly held with moral fidelity - steadfast - firmness) + trust = assurance = FAITH
I agree with Dave. Belief is all that is required. However, This is not an intellectual exercise. Man has believed many things that have proven to be error. Bleeding a patient does not drain the body of evil vapors that cause disease. Many people believed that Joe Biden would be a good president. Only to discover they were wrong in their belief.
Rom 10:9 because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved: Rom 10:10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Scripture makes it perfectly clear, belief in the truth is not an intellectual exercise. It is an action of the heart.
Robert, I have read all that you have written here. You have chosen not to believe. You are on record not believing in one true God. Your head cannot understand how God could be in two places at once. You are on the record rejecting the teaching that Jesus Christ was God incarnate. Again, your head doesn’t understand how it could be possible. You are also on the record denying the spirit. Your head does not believe it, because you have been taught to reject the truth.
This is the problem with intellectual Christianity. Churches that teach error only reinforce your doubt. There is only one way to overcome your doubt. That would be alone, in the dark, and on your knees. Asking what you have to do, or what religious practice you need to perform to be a Christian has nothing to do with accepting the truth in your heart.
Psalm 139:23 Search me, O God, and know my heart; Try me and know my anxious thoughts;
Jeremiah 17:10 “I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give to each man according to his ways, According to the results of his deeds.
Romans 8:27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
1 Chronicles 28:9 “As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind; for the Lord searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.
What you believe with your heart influences what your head is able to understand. No one here or anywhere will ever say the right word or words that will instill belief within your heart, because we can only speak to your head. Only God can speak to your heart.
Please, stop and consider that you have been taught so many head reasons to reject the truth. God cannot speak to you, if your do not let him. How can the Holy Spirit comfort your spirit, if you doubt it is even possible?
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jun 5, 2023 15:00:52 GMT -5
What you believe with your heart influences what your head is able to understand.
Koran, Book of the Cow 2:117 The ignorant ask: “Why does God not speak to us or give us a sign? The same demand was made by those before them: Their hearts are all alike. But to those whose faith is firm, We have already revealed Our signs.“
I like to say it as – Some people say they would believe if they could just see a sign – but those of us who believe see signs all around us every day.
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jun 6, 2023 17:26:41 GMT -5
Faith - emunah - By Jeff A. Benner Behold, he whose soul is not upright in him shall fail, but the righteous shall live by his faith. (Habakkuk 2:4 - ASV) What does it mean to have "faith" from an Hebraic perspective? In our western minds faith is a mental exercise in knowing that someone or something exists or will act. For instance, if we say "I have faith in God" we are saying "I know that God exists and that he will do what he says he will do". The Hebrew word for faith is אמונה (emunah - Strong's #530) and is an action oriented word meaning "support". This is important because the Western concept of faith places the action on the one you have faith in, such as "faith in God". But, the Hebrew word אמונה places the action on the one who "supports God". It is not a knowing that God will act, but rather I will do what I can to support God. This idea of support for the word emunah can be seen in Exodus 17:12. But Moses' hands grew weary; so they took a stone and put it under him, and he sat upon it, and Aaron and Hur held up his hands, one on one side, and the other on the other side; so his hands were steady (emunah)until the going down of the sun. It is the support/emunah of Aaron and Hur that held of Moses' arms, not the support/emunah of Moses. When we say "I have faith in God", we should be thinking "I will do what I can to support God". For Robert - Evidently this one article carries more theological truth that the bulk of scripture.firmisrael.org/learn/meaning-of-amen-and-hebrew-word-faith/From a Hebrew article on FAITH - Emunah is not faith alone, it is faith completed by works. According to the biblical definition of faith, what you do is more important than what you know. It is not what you say – it is who you are
Facing off against the 99% and all their gods This means marching off to a NAZI death camp proud to be a Jew. Building a home in Israel today. Facing the threats of Iran, Syria, Jordan, Turkey – the PLO, Hamas, or Hezbollah. We as Christians are fortunate that the New Testament clarifies :firmisrael.org/learn/meaning-of-amen-and-hebrew-word-faith/From a Hebrew article on Faith - I love what James, who was the brother of Jesus, wrote: “Isn’t it obvious that God-talk without God-acts is outrageous nonsense?” (James 2:17)… Maybe you’ve heard it in a different translation that says, “In the same way, faith without works is dead.” It all comes back to that Greatest Command as stated by Jesus Christ.Mat 22:36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Torah?” Mat 22:37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love Adonai your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ Mat 22:38 This is the first and greatest commandment. Mat 22:39 And the second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ Joh 13:34 “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, so also you must love one another. Joh 13:35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” How did Jesus Christ love us – He pre-existed as the Word and the Word was God – He came to earth to witness to all mankind – then returned to God
From God we came – we souljourn here with a mission / purpose – then we will return to GodJer 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you, and before you were born, I set you apart—I appointed you prophet to the nations.” Rom 10:9 For if you confess with your mouth that Yeshua is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Rom 10:10 For with the heart it is believed for righteousness, and with the mouth it is confessed for salvation. Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever trusts in Him will not be put to shame.” Belief in the truth + trust = assurance
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jun 7, 2023 7:58:22 GMT -5
Faith in Hebrew - Hebrew Word of the Day
Emunah = faithfulness, trust, steadfastness, practice An action word – not that we believe its true, but how we live our lives
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jun 7, 2023 8:22:35 GMT -5
The Hebrew Root of Faith - 119 Ministries
Emunah = faithfulness, steadfastness, trustworthiness, secure, firm
Faith is demonstrated by one who is so secure and firm in what he understands as truth that he practices it
Faith → establishes → the law within us
If you truly believe that Jesus Christ is standing next to you → it forces a change in your behaviour - a change in attitude
What are you to do, if you are not near a Temple - how do you practice your Jewish faith?
Quorban / Korban - you act like a Christian and care for those around you
There is nothing new here that Robert has not heard from this ministry before, but there is so much scripture Robert is on the record NOT BELIEVING that faith has become a religious practice - a thing to do - difficult to understand - something he just doesn't get
|
|
|
Post by Dillon on Jun 7, 2023 10:57:42 GMT -5
Robert said: Can't you fathom logic and sombody elses view. I understand your view very well but you do not understand my view.Dave said: 1- I absolutely disagree with your foundational anti-Christian teachingsFact - There is only one God Fact - The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God Fact – Christ is the image of God Fact – Jesus Christ is God Incarnate Fact – Jesus died upon the cross and Christ spiritually returned to heaven to preach to the lost spirits of the time of Noah Fact – The Resurrection is proof that LIFE LIVES – there is a real and active afterlife Fact – you will meet your maker and you will be judged Fact – God is fair and judgment is proportional Fact – Psa 19:2 + Rom 1:19 all validate that GOD IS THE ONE TRUE CREATOR You take the opposite view – each and every point Yet you pretend to be a ChristianRobert has made it clear that he rejects scriptural teaching in favor of Ellen White. No wonder he cannot understand what it means to have faith. His faith is in Ellen White not the word of God.
|
|