|
Post by Dillon on May 2, 2022 14:29:32 GMT -5
R" Not what I asked, yes I know of the right and left hand.... But I asked you about the masculine and feminine, what is the purpose of this, if it is not a referral to personalities of person with differing loves.
The Right Hand is masculine – it is the hand of instruction and salivation The Left Hand is feminine - the hand of mystery and judgment
That is my whole point of love, love does not exist in the torah as one word, but two words, one is termed masculine love and the other feminine love, as concepts of loving. OK ---------------
The male is the Creator. The male provides the house, provides the security and wealth. The male is the provider. The male is father.
The female is mother. The female provides the womb. She makes the house a home. She tends the nest and cares for the children. The female is the shekinah that moves among God’s people, caring for God’s children.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 2, 2022 16:27:42 GMT -5
Greetings Dillon You write " The male is the Creator. The male provides the house, provides the security and wealth. The male is the provider. The male is father.
The female is mother. The female provides the womb. She makes the house a home. She tends the nest and cares for the children. The female is the shekinah that moves among God’s people, caring for God’s children.R" Well said, but Dave does not see two personalities of love within the Godhead. Dave only sees one strong authority within a Godhead of two or three faces. I present to Dave a presentation I showed before, but you ignored:- (you comments add nothing ..... we already disagree....) 1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; Currently we see all things through a MEDIUM, a glass darkly.... ---------------------- I cannot understand your cardinally one strong authority thing, you claim the Most High is all we have. Here is a glass (media) and water (media) and air (media) allowing light (a simile of the Father) to move into and out of the three media, causing to the observer (us humans), to see a piece of matter (straw) experience a medium affect (something that does not technically exist). If you do not understand any sentences in my discussion please address the sentence. Give me evidence you are thinking about my logical presentation here. In Romans 1:20 we are told to see the invisible using nature. There are two invisible things here (1) light (2) medium Now what we humans do see is a refracted straw, the straw appears bent. Why is this image like this? That is a difficult question to answer. Now we know all things real are empowered by the Father and exist because the Father exists. These are the light, the air, the water, the straw and the glass as well as the observer, us humans. Some things are not real, so are not made or created by the Father, this is the medium and the image of the straw looking refracted or bent. Question: How do these non-real things cause the thing we humans see? A bent straw? The Father does not do this affect alone, nor do any of the media do it alone, the only way to explain this affect to to introduce another function that also exists but is not real either. Relationship. If we combine the things that are real together in a relationship, than certain outcomes can we seen. When the light from the Father enters the media of air, it appears to travel straight, and than the light from the Father enters the water, it also travels straight, but is bent towards the water media, causing the image to appear bent. Why does the Father refract when entering into a relationship with the water? Once inside the water the light continues straight, it's only when entering the media for the first time this affect is seen. Notice the affect is not caused by the water alone, not caused by the Father alone, The affect is caused by the relationship of the Father and the water relative also to the observer. Question: Can this affect be produced by the Father only? No. Because some aspects of this affect are not real (1) The image we see is virtual, does not exist. (2) The relationship functionally causes an effect upon light entering the media, from one media to another media, and nobody understands why relationships do this affect. But relationship is something that does not exist, but exerts an influence somehow on the light entering the media boundary. (3) The medium process also doesn't exist either, we assume to observe an image, we say we see the virtual affect, but we cannot touch or pull the shape from the media to prove the shape actually exists in the way we say it exists. Now let's do some application with this natural thing called a medium. Question: How can the Father touch sinners with power to keep them living in probation without destroying them instantly with His holy awesome powers? Answer: Only a medium can do this. Because mediums function as virtual powers, the Father can empower sinners without actually touching them directly. So we walk around under His observance as if we are crooked (bent or refracted), but the relationship that causes this affect is not real, nor is the medium real, even though the components are real, the light, the air, and straw, and humans and of course GOD itself. Now some could say the Father is able to make these media and empower them, so we see the affect coming only from the Father only. Yes I see that possibility for a single entity such as a straw. But if the straw is actually a human, than the walking into and out of the boundaries of living and dying occurs thousands of times every day, so a mere passive presence of the Father cannot achieve this kind of changes for the medium affect to occur. You require a living medium, one that is passive to the flow required, without getting involved too much, so is a conduit for the flow you choose every second of the day. Now we have an machine that functions as a medium affect, but sees the missing you do on a cellular level, every time the cells cross the boundaries of living and dying, responding to your cognitive mind in relationship, we require a much more active administration of the media and changes to the media. So we have both the Father and the HS pictured here making the process of salvation or of dying, personal to each individual person, be is may crooked or straight. DO we have Bible verses where the power of the Father is administrated actively by the MEDIUM? YesPs 91:1 ¶ He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.
3 Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.
4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.Here the Shadday makes a shadow using the Father Most High light (power), so the humans can trust in Him, the Father. In verse 4 it says we dwell under His wings, but they are actually the HS wings, but not the HS alone either. Because this is a medium process, and the power is the Father's light, and His shadow, so the overall process is dwelling under His wings is correct. We do dwell under His wings, the process is a medium affect, a relational one involving members within the Godhead. Without the HS blocking and modifying the Father;s light, no human could exist. And yet this process cannot happen unless we explain it as above. The light is modified by relationship and thus seen when the HS and the human and the Father come together as a community process. The word "shadow" implies two objects are required to produce shadows, the light source, the light blocker and the overall effect, the filtered light. Hence we have not one divine shape here but two. Well some could argue the two shapes are caused by one Father making expressions of Himself into two shapes of divinity. Well using the electron microscope, these shapes have to commune with each other, so we have two shapes of one Father who talk equally and commune equally. Now how is this any different to two strong authorities? How many beings did God create for adam? One, the woman was built, not created. Scripture sees Adam and Eve as cardinally one being, the human variety. One expresses ahab and the other expresses ahabuh, personalities of loving. But one being, the human kind. Since sinning we have assumed self and thus independence from the love we were designed for, thus we see the woman today as a different being to the man, hence two gods, but this is a false notion arising from sin. In the beginning before sin spoiled things, Eve was a genetic clone of Adam, but not a personality clone. Now in your discussion, discuss my discussion, critique the sentences you don't like. Credit the one you do like. Introduce your own view of elohiym power if you can using natural things we humans understand. Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on May 2, 2022 22:35:06 GMT -5
If D says it - you say – well said If I say it - you say - Dave does not see two personalities of love within the GodheadI present to Dave a presentation I showed before, but you ignored:- (you comments add nothing ..... we already disagree....) You have NEVER presented this idea here – you have a god for masculine and a god for feminine – and another god for Christ – at least 3 different lesser god all working together so love can existYou deny that all men – have a feminine nature – so there must be 2 Roberts in your house You deny that all women have a maculation nature – and your spouse is also 2 people Do all 4 of you sleep together? ---------------------- I cannot understand your cardinally one strong authority thing, you claim the Most High is all we have.Correct there is only One True GodIf you do not understand any sentences in my discussion please address the sentence. Give me evidence you are thinking about my logical presentation here. Here is a glass (media) and water (media) and air (media) allowing light (a simile of the Father) to move into and out of the three media, You have a created thing + a created thing + a created thing All you have is world God is not a created thing – He is the CreatorIn Romans 1:20 we are told to see the invisible using nature.BULL SHIT – read scripture properly – or don’t quote it here There are two invisible things here (1) light (2) mediumHow can you say that – you have been denying it for 3 yearsGod = the Light (Christ) + the Medium (spirit) E = mc2 E= The Light * the medium Now what we humans do see is a refracted straw, the straw appears bent. Why is this image like this? That is a difficult question to answer. Who cares – you are talking about the world and created things I am talking about the One True CreatorGod the Creator is ourside creation - bigger than creation But He can reaching into creation with the male Right hand = Christ Or He can reach into cvreation with the female Left Hand - the Spirit He can express Himself as the Right Hand or the Left hand - both hands belong to HIM There is only One True God -------------------- Now let's do some application with this natural thing called a medium. Question: How can the Father touch sinners with power to keep them living in probation without destroying them instantly with His holy awesome powers? Underneath all physical reality = an unseen force that holds it all together 500 BC the Greek called this unseen force ‘The Word’ String theory calls it the 2D planar matrix of our realityAnswer: Only a medium can do this. OK------------------- How many beings did God create for adam? One, the woman was built, not created.Why do you deny scripture?Gen 1:27 God created humankind in His image, in the image of God He created him, male and female He created them. Scripture sees Adam and Eve as cardinally one being, the human variety. One expresses ahab and the other expresses ahabuh, personalities of loving. But one being, the human kind.But you say God cannot be this = God cannot be both male and female – impossible you say – it required 2 different gods I cannot understand your cardinally one strong authority thing, you claim the Most High is all we have.Correct there is only One True GodAnd you say there is only one Adam – and he is both male and femaleIT IS SO HARD TO TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY
|
|
|
Post by Dillon on May 3, 2022 12:13:25 GMT -5
R" Well said, but Dave does not see two personalities of love within the Godhead. Dave only sees one strong authority within a Godhead of two or three faces. I never said I believe in more than one god. Please do not suggest that I did. ------------ I really liked your drawing. God the Creator is ourside creation - bigger than creation But He can reaching into creation with the male Right hand = Christ Or He can reach into cvreation with the female Left Hand - the Spirit He can express Himself as the Right Hand or the Left hand - both hands belong to HIM There is only One True God
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 3, 2022 16:50:46 GMT -5
Greetings Dillon, sorry to have misrepresented your view. I also confirm Dave presents a nice picture of elohiym as a left and right hand. However you ignore other pictures the Bible teaches. Eph 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, If Jesus is biologically the head of the human family, than we humans are grafted into Him as members of that family. If Jesus created humans as a family and Jesus is the head of that redeemed family, we do indeed have a family model of Jesus as our Saviour in heaven and on earth, as this verse suggests. Question: Does this imply that elohiym in heaven is also a family simile, but not made of matter, time or space? Why do you hate this simile as a suggestion? Multiple gods? What on earth does this mean? Are not all the pagan deites family gods as Hislop in the Two Babylons wrote? Consider the family of humans gathering around Mt Sinai? Did they speak independently as multiple thousands of people with multiple opinions? Ex 24:3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. The individual people willing forfeit their free will choice, and become a single entity of function and living, under one leader. Like the heart cells, they give up the freedom to be multiple, and work together as one organ. A multiple individual is a cancer, a sinner, and thus killed, destroyed, removed from the community. There is nothing independent about love, love is providing and responding, nothing about loving is selfish or independence. No such thing as multiple gods in an elohiym power of love. The biggest obstacle to your theory Dave, is you greatly reduce the loving functional qualities of elohiym, you do not consider the vast family power of love. SHalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on May 3, 2022 21:44:09 GMT -5
Greetings Dillon, sorry to have misrepresented your view.YES – why do you do that?I also confirm Dave presents a nice picture of elohiym as a left and right hand. I have never seen it portrayed quite that way – but1- God the Father – no man can see – no man can comprehend – beyond our creation 2- What we see – what we experience in this creation = the left hand (Spirit of God) which is wholly – or we experience God – The right hand - Christ However you ignore other pictures the Bible teaches. Eph 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, The Creator is the “FATHER” of everything – we are all God’s childrenIf Jesus is biologically - If Jesus created humans Jesus is biology – Jesus created nothingJesus Christ = God incarnate and God created everythingQuestion: Does this imply that elohiym in heaven is also a family simile, Sure – Father, Mother, Son – Father Womb, Son – Father, Holy Spirit, Son – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit Nice metaphor - simile Why do you hate this simile as a suggestion? Multiple gods? Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not 3 different gods – they are just the One True GodHow many people are there in this picture? I say only one – you pretend that you cannot understand me Are not all the pagan deites family gods as Hislop in the Two Babylons wrote?Absolutely Correct – the Beast and his offspring – the archon and their offspring – Beelzebub and his offspring – gods pf Canaan – gods’ of Rome – gods of Greece – Norse gods - - South American gods – North American gods Correct = all different identifiers for the offspring of the BeastConsider the family of humans gathering around Mt Sinai? Did they speak independently as multiple thousands of people with multiple opinions? Of course they did – are you saying they were all robots?Ex 24:3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, Sure – they were in agreement – how does this prove they were all robots and could not think for theselves?The biggest obstacle to your theory Dave, is you greatly reduce the loving functional qualities of elohiym, you do not consider the vast family power of love. Whatever that means God’s love is unrequited – he can to earth and live as a man – was tortured and punished – then crucified – just so you have an opportunity at eternal life
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 4, 2022 4:04:56 GMT -5
D"Jesus created nothing
Jesus Christ = God incarnate and God created everything
R" I see, you don't really have a Jesus do you? You have a Father expressed as Jesus.
Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
SO let me guess this says the Father created all things by the Father expressing himself as Jesus?
Col 1:12 ¶ Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And this says the same thing, the Father delivered us humans unto the Father expressed as Jesus, and we have redemption through the Father's blood , and all things were created by the Father, expressed as Jesus.
Boy you really know how to con-volute Scripture.
So the Father and Son thing is just a role play, a pretending actor act, why would the Father deceive us with such role play and acting?
JOhn 16, SO the Father so loved the world is gave Himself..... how is that love, when the Father has nothing to give apart from Himself? So logic is so weird....
SHalo
|
|
|
Post by Dave on May 4, 2022 6:03:27 GMT -5
D"Jesus created nothing Jesus Christ = God incarnate and God created everything
R" I see, you don't really have a Jesus do you? You have a Father expressed as Jesus. Jesus was/is the Son of Man – 100% biology – just like you and me Christ is/was the Son of God – God in a form – God’s Right hand
Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
SO let me guess this says the Father created all things by the Father? YES – in the ahl/OT God is the Creator YES – in the agl/NT Christ is the Creator YES – there is only One True Creator
YES – Jesus Christ = (Jesus) + (Christ) YES – Jesus Christ – (Son of Man) + (Son of God) YES – Jesus Christ = (carnal man) + (God incarnate)
Col 1:12 ¶ Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: How many kingdoms do you have? I have two – God’s Kingdom (everything everywhere) – and the kingdom of the Beast - World 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And this says the same thing, the Father delivered us humans unto the Father expressed as Jesus, and we have redemption through the Father's blood , and all things were created by the Father, expressed as Jesus.
Boy you really know how to con-volute Scripture. Boy you really love to misrepresent others – and you say it is a sin
And this says the same thing, the Father expressed as Jesus – God incarnate – the Son of God delivered us humans unto the Father, and we have redemption through the Father's blood , The mortal blood of Jesus – the biology – the Son of Man – who bled and died upon the cross and all things were created by the Father, expressed as Jesus. Jesus was not born until 4BC according to Matthew or 6 AD according to Luke Christ – who is the Right Hand of God created everything IN THE BEGINNING
So the Father and Son thing is just a role play, a pretending actor act, why would the Father deceive us with such role play and acting?
John 16, SO the Father so loved the world is gave Himself..... how is that love, when the Father has nothing to give apart from Himself? So logic is so weird....
Father so loved the world gave Himself.....
YES – if that does not move you to tears – then you just don’t get it THIS IS THE POINT OF CHRISTIANITY
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Joh 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
God – came to earth as a man (God incarnate) – and gave his mortal life for HIS ENEMIES gave his mortal life for - people that do even believe he is real gave his mortal life for – people who give all their praise to another Creator gave his mortal life for – people who give all the credit to another god gave his mortal life for – people who think all we are is a cosmic accident
God’s love is unrequited – omnipotent
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 4, 2022 18:37:38 GMT -5
Greetings\
Dave posts" Father so loved the world gave Himself.....
YES – if that does not move you to tears – then you just don’t get it THIS IS THE POINT OF CHRISTIANITY
The verse says "
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,
Rob replies" The verse does not say the Father so love the world the Father gave Himself....
When Rob wrote this for you "Father so loved the world gave Himself.
Dave agreed to this idea, and says it is the very point of Christianity...
D" God’s love is unrequited – omnipotent R" Can you please write this again without using big fancy words...do not use the word unrequited – omnipotent , instead write simple words for simple children, like me....
Stop making up stuff and listening to the inventions of men...
Write simple words, How can the Father demonstrate love and loving if the Father cannot give up anything apart from Himself? Creating an expression of oneself is NOT an act of love. I could cut off my arm and give my arm to save humans, but this is not an act of love, or loving. Love and loving requires the risk of providing and responding, the process of giving and receiving, not creating the same as you as a different expression.
Suppose I clone a second copy of myself and tell my copy to go down and save the sinners, and do not worry if you end up murdered by them. It's OK, I still have a back up copy here in me.
Where is the love and risk in all that? No risk at all, not a single thread of love, and loving.
But what is the great uncaused cause arrived from eternity as three components of love all together as elohiym powers from infinity, as a family from eternity. Such personalities together exist in love, with love and function as love, as a single plasma of family love. Not as we consider human similes, but beyond our abilities to imagine, like love is beyond us to fathom.
But you cannot understand this, nor are you willing to fathom Scripture. Instead you wish to accept Jesus in the NT something the ordinary Jew cannot do, because it implies multiple gods, whatever that means. So the opposer has got you by the head and is twisting you.
Love is not a creation of yourself, not made of matter space or time. Love is the processes of relationship. Relationship is not something real. If you clone yourself you have two real copies of yourself, and there you cannot demonstrate love with real objects, which have the same realness of mind.
A mother dog can demonstrate love to its puppy dog because they are similar creatures, but not of the same mind, the love shared is unique and the relationship is unique, but not real. You can hold a puppy but you cannot hold relationship. Neither can you hold love.
Procreation is the closest we humans can get to creating copies of ourselves in which we demonstrate love towards our children. Father and a Son. However God is NOT like this. God is not of matter, time or space.
And so love is way beyond anything we understand. The great uncaused cause came instantly with three functions of love as three personalities of loving, not as we humans understand family, but in a way we cannot fathom. And this loving is eternal and infinite and also a single flow.
But instead you mock God saying God is multiple....God is not multiple anything... love is comprised of essential functions which fit similar to a human simile of father mother and child, but also nothing like this, way beyond our understanding to know. If I said the atoms consists of three motions of spin, who are you do mock the atoms saying they are multiply subatomic particles and therefore this is a pagan idea? Can any of us know God? DO we dare try to fathom the Almighty? But instead you mock the pictures the Scripture show us, and instead invent your own pictures of E=MC2. And you make God create expressions of Himself.
Either God is love or God is not love. He cannot be an expression pretending to love, nor can GOD simply wait until some creatures are created in order to feel love and be loved. What a silly idea that is. Love is not something you do for other creatures, like I do for my dog. That is the idea of caring, looking after, sure it comes from my function to love, but you cannot feel happy loving a dog (though some humans try). Adam got lonely doing this, and within hours wanted something else...something more....
The Father gave us His Son, more precious than Himself. That is love. The son created this world Dave, not the Father directly, though technically the Son spoke the HS carried out the words using the Father's powers.
Why did the Father send us His Son? To demonstrate love. Love is a relationship. The Father sent relationship. Not a piece expressed as Himself, but something more precious than that. Not role playing, a real Son, whatever that picture means, to redeem us in the Father's love.
SHalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on May 4, 2022 21:32:04 GMT -5
Dave posts" Father so loved the world gave Himself..... YES – if that does not move you to tears – then you just don’t get it THIS IS THE POINT OF CHRISTIANITY
The verse says " Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, YES – the eternally begotten Christ – who is the Right Hand of God
Rob replies" The verse does not say the Father so love the world the Father gave Himself.... Jesus Christ = God incarnate
D" God’s love is unrequited – omnipotent R" Can you please write this again without using big fancy words...do not use the word unrequited – omnipotent , instead write simple words for simple children, like me.... God love you even if you do not love Him back God is all powerful
But instead you mock God saying God is multiple....God is not multiple anything... This is your teaching to me – God cannot be Christ – impossible – so you have 2 gods
Either God is love or God is not love. He cannot be an expression pretending to love, Grow up – have an adult conversation – or go away I tire of you putting word in my mouth – ZERO RESPRCT OR HONESTY
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 5, 2022 15:43:02 GMT -5
Greetings
I will try another idea, the Lord informed me about, and its a word you do not like "amanuah".
Here is a the Hebrew analysis of Lamentations 3:26
Strong's Hebrew English Morphology 2896 [e] ט֤וֹב ṭō-wḇ [it is] good Adj-ms 2342 [e] וְיָחִיל֙ wə-yā-ḥîl that [one] should hope Conj-w | Adj-ms 1748 [e] וְדוּמָ֔ם wə-ḏū-mām, and quietly wait Conj-w | Adv 8668 [e] לִתְשׁוּעַ֖ת liṯ-šū-‘aṯ for the salvation Prep-l | N-fsc 3068 [e] יְהוָֽה׃ Yah-weh. of Yahweh N-proper-ms
I would like to ask Jewish translators why they consider the prefix in front of yashua to be a secular term "salvation" rather than the reference to "Yashuah-YHWH" ?
I ask this question because of the verse before, has to make sense...
La 3:25 The LORD is good unto them that wait for him, to the soul that seeketh him
Who is the "him" that we wait for, if the FATHER-YHWH is speaking here?
And if we consider again the verse before:
La 3:24 The LORD is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him.
If the Father is my portion, therefor will I hope in "him", who is "him" ?
There reason I ask this is because of the verse before:
La 3:23 They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.
This verse tells us that God also does amanuah....
Question: Does God only do amanuah to humans? What on earth for? DO we understand this idea as a question?
or
Question: Does God do amanuah within the Godhead, and thus pass this power unto humans?
I prefer this second idea, because that is how amanuah worked when Jesus was on earth, he supplied power to humans by having faith in His Father, its a relationship thing, and that is only how power flows. Not from a being being independent....like you claim something multiple....no indeed.
Jesus was totally dependent upon His Father for the power flow through the Father, Jesus passed unto humans. This is what faith means.
Amanuah is supporting another relational being.
D"I tire of you putting word in my mouth
R" What does this mean? Are you wanting our discussions to stop? You cannot stand analyzing the Hebrew scriptures anymore with me?
If you say Faith is just belief, what in the world would the Father believe in, ? Or do you say the Father has faith in the humans? That makes no sense either?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
These words are fuzzy translations, the word "pisteuo/pistis" here is "amanuah" and so Jesus is clearly telling his disciples that Jesus has amanuah in the Father, and the Father has amanuah in the Son.
You cannot get a power flow unless you have this arrangement, its like a simile of the battery. Inside the battery are three components of love, the provider, the responder and the aqueous medium. Or the cathode, the anode and the aqueous medium. The power of love only flows when the relationship conducts and conduits outwards to others.
Dave makes the strange claim I have two gods. No I don't. It is my understanding the Father cannot create without the Son and the Shadday and the Son cannot create without the Shadday and the Father. There is nothing multiple in any of this, they function as one because love is a circuit of providing and receiving, or giving and responding, of working to support each other in faith. Great is His faithfulness.
We often here Occam’s razor stating that God must be one, whatever they mean by that? But clearly the Hebrew words for love is actually two "ahab and ahabuh" so one can postulate the minimum number of personalities for love demonstrated and working as love, is "three".
But Dave has the notion that one being can love all alone, awaiting other creatures to respond?
I point out to you this is not love, you entirely miss what loving is all about. Sure I can leave a battery unconnected and no power flows. Relationship causes the love to flow, not the being alone. Creating other beings like yourself is not the same thing as love either, in fact such a thing violates Occam’s razor, to say the Father made an expression of Himself because the Father needed to.
The only was to satisfy Occam’s razor is to have the Great uncaused cause appear from eternity as infinity as "three components of love" instantaneously . Than we can say that love functions as one flow, from one source.
Now I only ask you to consider my two pennies and discuss what is wrong or right with this view.
Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on May 5, 2022 17:20:47 GMT -5
I will try another idea, the Lord informed me about, and its a word you do not like "amanuah". Here is a the Hebrew analysis of Lamentations 3:26 I would like to ask Jewish translators why they consider the prefix in front of yashua to be a secular term "salvation" rather than the reference to "Yashuah-YHWH" ? Easy answer – 1- instead of learning to translate – you just play word games 2- תְּשׁוּעָה - IS NOT A PREFIX – it is a free standing noun In English it would be an adjective – a noun that adds definition to another noun (wiki) In Afro-Asiatic languages, the first noun in a genitive phrase of a possessed noun followed by a possessor noun often takes on a special morphological form, which is termed the construct state. (KJV) - the salvation of the LORD. (YLT) - the salvation of Jehovah. (TLV) - the salvation of Adonai. (ASV) - the salvation of Jehovah. (LXX) – the salvation of the Lord Lam 3:26 (LXX) καὶ ὑπομενεῖ καὶ ἡσυχάσει εἰς τὸ σωτήριον κυρίου. τὸ σωτήριον (the Salvation) + κυρίου.(gen – possession = of the Lord) Literal = salvation of the Lord Also acceptable English = the Lord's salvation טֹ֤וב וְיָחִיל֙ וְדוּמָ֔ם לִתְשׁוּעַ֖ת יְהוָֽה׃ IN Hebrew the word is in the Construct State@-nc-f-s-c - Hebrew origin, noun-common, feminine, singular, construct State Construct - unfoldingWord Hebrew Grammarhttps://uhg.readthedocs.io › latest › state_construct The construct state serves a unique function in Biblical Hebrew to grammatically link a word to the following word(s),making a single grammatical unit ... H8668 תְּשׁוּעָה tshuw`ah (tesh-oo-aw') n-f. תְּשֻׁעָה tshu`ah (tesh-oo-aw') 1. liberation (from some trouble). 2. (as a response) a liberating rescue. 3. (as a result) a liberating victory (over a trouble). 4. a liberating safety (as preventing further trouble). {literal or figurative, personal, national or spiritual} [from H7768 (in the sense of H3467)] KJV: deliverance, help, safety, salvation, victory. Root(s): H7768 Compare: H3468 See also: H3467 | H3068 יְהוָה Yhvah (yeh-vaw') n/p. יְהוָֹה Yhovah (yeh-ho-vaw') יְהוֹ Yhow (yeh-ho') [as a prefix] 1. (meaning) the self-Existent or Eternal, the I AM. 2. (person) Yahweh (Yehvah), Jewish national name of God. 3. (anglicized) Jehovah. 4. (as a name prefix) Yeho-. 5. (As expressed in Hebraic Koine Greek) ἐγώ εἰμί, I AM (literally: I myself, I am). [from H1961] KJV: Jehovah, the Lord. Root(s): H1961 Compare: H3050, H3069 See also: G1510 |
in Biblical Hebrew to grammatically link a word to the following word(s),making a single grammatical unit ... OK – so you want to make - tshuw`ah Yhvah = (spiritual rescue and liberation to safety) of YHWY To say - "Yashuah-YHWH"1- tshuw`ah – where did it go? – you have changed the word into Yashuah 2- you have changed the word form – salvation of the Lord – to Jesus-God Who is the salvation of the Lord = Jesus Christ Lam 3:26 It is good to wait quietly for the salvation of Adonai. Lam 3:26 It is good to wait quietly for (Jesus Christ) of Adonai. I ask this question because of the verse before, has to make sense... La 3:25 The LORD is good unto them that wait for him, to the soul that seeketh him Who is the "him" that we wait for, if the FATHER-YHWH is speaking here?Him = Christ = God = HS = TrinityAnd if we consider again the verse before: La 3:24 The LORD is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him. Him = Christ = God = HS = TrinityThere reason I ask this is because of the verse before: La 3:23 They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness. This verse tells us that God also does amanuah.... H530 - -ֱמֻנָה אֱמוּנָה - 'ĕmûnâh Feminine of H529; literally firmness; figuratively security; moral fidelity: - faith (-ful, -ly, -ness, [man]), set office, stability, steady, truly, truth, verily. Question: Does God only do amanuah to humans? What on earth for? DO we understand this idea as a question?YES – God = literally - firmness; security; moral fidelity: set office, stability, steady, truly, truth, Question: Does God do amanuah within the Godhead, and thus pass this power unto humans?You ask – what does God have to do to maintain his literally - firmness; security; moral fidelity: set office, stability, steady, truly, truth,Question back at you - what do you do every day to be you? Who else helps you to be you? - Who are you when you are alone?If you say Faith is just belief, what in the world would the Father believe in,? Or do you say the Father has faith in the humans? That makes no sense either?YES – If God did not have faith in humans – He would have never let us go YES – if God did not believe in humans – He would have never let us go God let us – sent us into this world – believing in us – trusting in us – having faith in us that we could and would return as the prodigal Son
You are NOT required to return that love – your Free Will choiceJoh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. These words are fuzzy translations, the word "pisteuo/pistis" here is "amanuah" and so Jesus is clearly telling his disciples that Jesus has amanuah in the Father, and the Father has amanuah in the Son.ABSOLUTE NONSENSE – learn to translate - or read English evenG4100 – πιστεύω - From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with. Do you have faith that – Jesus is the Father – no you do notDo you have faith that God is in Jesus – God incarnate – no you do notDave makes the strange claim I have two gods. No I don't. It is my understanding the Father cannot create without the Son and the Shadday BINGO - your god is not omnipotent – your god requires help
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 6, 2022 4:10:55 GMT -5
D" Lam 3:26 (LXX) καὶ ὑπομενεῖ καὶ ἡσυχάσει εἰς τὸ σωτήριον κυρίου.
τὸ σωτήριον (the Salvation) + κυρίου.(gen – possession = of the Lord)R" You know your Greek really well. Thanks D "Who is the salvation of the Lord = Jesus Christ
Lam 3:26 It is good to wait quietly for the salvation of Adonai.R" Nice D" Question back at you - what do you do every day to be you? Who else helps you to be you? - Who are you when you are alone?R" My two pennies, is to be saved by Jesus you have to have his powers flowing in you every second of the day. This requires you to constantly seek His words correctly for every opportunity you see. So who helps you to be you? Jesus does. Who are you when you are alone? A Christian is never alone, always talking to Jesus. It's when I am in the presence of humans, I forget the Lord and speak to them using my own powers, and start sinning again. what do you do every day to be you? Without me, ye can do nothing, Jesus replied. D" God let us – sent us into this world – believing in us – trusting in us – having faith in us that we could and would return as the prodigal SonR" You d o not understand what faith is, its requires the flow of power from another being. Not yourself , never from yourself. No such thing in God's world having a flow of power from self. So the verses tried to get you to see, the Father has faith in the Godhead, so the power from the divine members flows unto us. A Father on his own expressing Himself in different modes cannot produce faith. Faith cannot function on your own. D" You are NOT required to return that love – your Free Will choiceR" I beg to differ, there is no such will if your connected to Jesus, you must give Him all your being, and allow Him into your soul, developing a unique spirit of you and Jesus. Why is it unique, because of the several ways you respond to Jesus daily. Love must always respond. If you provide for your wife, she must respond to that love, otherwise it's not love, or she is self absorbed and not loving you. D "Do you have faith that – Jesus is the Father – no you do not Do you have faith that God is in Jesus – God incarnate – no you do notR" I can claim that Jesus spoke his Father's words and used His Father's powers all the time on the earth. But you want me, to support the idea that Jesus is the Father in a different expression. This I cannot do. D" BINGO - your god is not omnipotent – your god requires helpR" Unlimited power, infinite power, the elohiym in heaven has this function. Ps 131:1 ...neither do I exercise myself in great matters, or in things too high for me. Sometimes Dave, you should not mock God as much as you do. SOme details are best left unsaid. D" ABSOLUTE NONSENSE – learn to translate - or read English even
G4100 – πιστεύω - From G4102; to have faith (R" Funny you negate my saying and use a Strong's that agrees with my sayings? So why do you mock? Dave posted this" to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing) So how can the Father have Faith in humans? when human power means nothing to God? The answer must be the Father has faith in His Son, and that power flows into humans, means everything to God. You cannot have a flow of faith between the Father and Himself..... regardless of the mode you choose. Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on May 6, 2022 7:50:33 GMT -5
So who helps you to be you? Jesus does. Way not to answer – OK – what if you deny Christ – then who helps you be you? If you say God – the HS – or Christ than you are saying love is unrequited
Who are you when you are alone? A Christian is never alone, always talking to Jesus. Way not to answer – OK – what if you deny Christ – then who helps you be you? If you say God – the HS – or Christ than you are saying love is unrequited
D"God let us – sent us into this world – believing in us – trusting in us – having faith in us that we could and would return as the prodigal Son
R" You do not understand what faith is, Correct – I do not understand what you make loving the Lord a chore to do daily
D"You are NOT required to return that love – your Free Will choice R" I beg to differ, there is no such will if your connected to Jesus, Now you deny that man has the gift of Free Will
You say each and every man is filled with the HS - that is your deffinition of life So every man is connected to Jesus - a Born Again Christian - empowered by God ABSOLUTE RUBBISH
D"Do you have faith that – Jesus is the Father – no you do not Do you have faith that God is in Jesus – God incarnate – no you do not This I cannot do. Your choice NOT to believe – I thought you are a robot and lose your Free Will if you believe in God? --------------------
YOUR ANTI-CHRISTIAN TEACHING IS REJECTED
I have asked you questions - instead of offereing an intelligent discussion you just keep repeating that mainstream Judeo-Christianity is error - and offer your satan religion as a replacement
Rome did it - Rome has set your example - therefore if it is OK with Rome it must of God Long live your fallen angels gods and your rejection of Jesus Christ - who is not God - just a man
My answers to you will always be the same - there is Only One True God The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God Jesus Christ is God incarnate
Hebrew satan is not a god - not even close Hebrew satan never recreated God's world Hebrew satan never forced God to change His Plan against His Will Hebrew satan never forced God to react Hebrew satan never changed his own created form and function Hebrew satan never caused 1/3rd of all God's created angels to changed their created forms and function
Jewish satan = belzebul and the shedim Gnostic principalities = the Chief Archon and his offspring They are a SERPENT RACE - snakes - reptiles - seraphim Created in their created form for their created function
Col 1:15 (Christ) who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation, Col 1:16 because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities (archon); all things through him, and for him, have been created,
Col 1:15 (Christ)Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities (Archon), or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Christ = the image of God Archon - aurthorities - principalities - made by God for God
You must deny agl/NT scripture to believe in your self created satan god
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 6, 2022 16:12:50 GMT -5
D"If you say God – the HS – or Christ than you are saying love is unrequited R" Word salad, do not follow you? Explain
R" You do not understand what faith is, D" Correct – I do not understand what you make loving the Lord a chore to do daily R" Not a chore, but a delight
Ho 14:2 Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Ec 11:6 In the morning sow thy seed, and in the evening withhold not thine hand: Ps 27:6 ....I offer in his tabernacle sacrifices of joy; Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness. Isa 29:19 The meek also shall increase their joy in the LORD, Mt 25:23 ..., Well done, good and faithful servant; 1Th 1:6 ..having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost:
D"You say each and every man is filled with the HS - that is your deffinition of life So every man is connected to Jesus - a Born Again Christian - empowered by God ABSOLUTE RUBBISH R" Brevity word salad, care to unpack what you are saying?
D"My answers to you will always be the same - there is Only One True God The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God Jesus Christ is God incarnate R" I see, you have only one cardinal Being, that's it. OK can this being exist as two expressions at the same time, (this idea opposes the theory of modalism) one on earth with another in heaven? As in the Sodom verse, than you have two gods of your Father haven't you? And if you have one Father praying as Jesus to another Father in heaven, two minds praying, than you have two Father expressions, you have two gods of your Father haven't you? (in which you invent a new theory called Dave's view) Please explain these conflictions...
D"Hebrew satan never forced God to react R" Question" When a human sins, eg, Adam sinned, did God react to the sinner's sins? Question" Can a human create RA all by himself, when he sins?
D"Created in their created form for their created function R" I see and this is an approved functional way of the Father loving us humans, by intentionally creating such creatures to tempt humans to sin? Love your logic, isn't this a conflict of interest. Like you prosecuting attorney who makes Job sin using other humans and than prosecutes Job for his sinning, the attorney wanted him to do.
It do not see this an an act of love by a heavenly Father.
D"Col 1:15 (Christ) who is the image of the invisible God, R" How can Jesus be an image of the Father, I thought your view is Jesus is the Father as an expression, not an image.
D"authorities (archon); all things through him, and for him, have been created, R" I don't have a problem saying the Lord created cherubims, but the Lord did not create the sinning in those cheribums, they chose to sin by themselves, sin is not explained in Scripture, it just happened...
D"Christ = the image of God R" In bold large font. Jesus is not an image of the Father according to your view, Jesus is 100% the Father period. What is an image? Something that is similar to but not the same as the real thing it depicts. You goofed using this verse Dave, it does not support your view at all.
Shalom
|
|