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Post by Dave on Mar 23, 2022 0:51:42 GMT -5
Coal, Oil, and the Grand Canyon were all formed by Noah's FloodI will post this video here It speaks of the YEC (young earth creation) and coal formation Walter Brown, you love him, and the hydro plate theory Wow so much details from him, the hydro plate theory is interesting. I have a copy of Walt Brown's book, but I find it difficult to read due to the way the material is organized. His thoughts feel like an intellectual game of snakes and ladders. I found the videos easier to recognize his collective thoughts. Saying that, I agree with where he is heading with his energy release causing crypto-volcanic outbursts. … God Bless Steve 03:57 – coal formation is dependent upon STP + Time - agree 4:30 – yes – radioactive spurs from U infusion is interesting What he fails to mention – mineral infusion depends on water movement – could have been quick or very slowly What he fails to mention is that radioactive sours – in wood – in lime stone – in tissue only grow so large before they stop – not matter how long they are present – they do not grow larger 09:25 – his view – coal did not form over thousands of years – but just in a few thousands of years 10:35 – TIME IS HIS ONLY ARGUMENT 11:22 – the error of radiometric dating indicates that the presently accepted ages may be too high by a factor of 10,000 DUH – I have been screaming this since forever 12:10 – First he discredits TIME as erroneous The he used radiometric time stamps to validate his view SO BOREING – either Time is error or it is valid TIME DOES NOT MEASURE THE CLOCK – IT MEASURES ORDER! ------------------------- It also includes my faviourite, Rathmine Bay Australia. Absolute evidence of FD-WEDT A Rapid and catastrophic even that threw several complete layers of sediment over a forsrest Coal relocates as a sedimentary layer - then mud – then coal – definition of geological Unconformity Happened in several events – but these events had to be close together or the trees would have fallen over – or rotted in between events Powder River Basin, is another example, 200 feet of coal, with one massive deposit? Obviously a great flood. 16:20- How did he seam get so massive 16:30 why aren’t the coal seam infiltrated with clays – or other flood debris 16:40 – How did things remain constant enough for 200 feet of coal to be deposited Answer – Day 3 and on into Day 5 of creation was a long time – for the bio matter to accumulate And all changed into coal before Gen 8- the flood – the great unconformity Question - if this coal seam is a result of flood waters carrying vegetation from long distance to accumulate here - how do you explain - why aren’t the coal seam infiltrated with clays – or other flood debrisLab experiment, can coal be made rapidly Who cares – WWII Germany made gasoline in a lab as well does this prove or disprove abiotic oil? Oil from bio matter is flawed – most oil comes from the Middle East – no fossils there A lot of oil comes from deep under the ocean floor – no fossils there Oil perks upwards – and empty oils wells of the 1930s are refilled and pumping again 29:00 – The Grand Canyon I was ready to comment – but nothing said here =- moved on to Walter Brown, you love him, and the hydro plate theory 31:00 – He does not relay on scriptural 4 Rivers watering the whole planet – he has a continuous rocky crust with seas / small oceans FD-WEDT – scripturally – the water cycle did not occur until after the flood – his world is lacks scriptural definition 31:10 - subterranean waters – about ½ of our oceans today FD-WEDT – recent Japanese studied estimate there is 5 times our oceans still locked within our mantel 10 miles below the earth’s surface was a 10 mile thick ocean waiting to come out FD-WEDT – at increased STP the mantel contained then – and now – a semi-solid sludge that contains all types of fluids – including water At increased STP the mantel contained then – even more than today – gasses in abundance 31:50 – His initial crack in the continuous crust – followed the path of least resistance FD-WEDT – the 4 Rivers that he completely fails to mention – that have always been pressures releasing artesian springs / rifts / cracks 32:15 – He is making the argument that the weight of the crust above – pressing down – forced the waters up FD-WEDT – DECOMPESSION due to an extreme change in STP 1- Took hours? – why so long – The was a Rapid and Catastrophic Event You live in Australia – I wonder what is your elevation? Buy a carbonated drink – shake the can as hard as you can for 3 minutes – then pop the top What happens? Buy that same can at sea-level and bring it to my house in Westcliff, Colorado – elevation 8278 feet (2523 meters) – then pop the top the exact same thing happens – It explodes from the can FYI – at STP water boils at 100C – at my house it was 102C And all in 0.2lbs change in pressure FD-WEDT – DECOMPESSION – was a Rapid and Catastrophic EventTaking some 40 days to calm down enough to say – the rains have stopped 32:24 – He begins with a continuous rocky crust – then the continents separated Question – where did they go – how did the interior of the earth grow larger to support any expansion idea?WEDD + FD-WEDT – the whole planetoid was decompressing – expanding33:22 – the continental plates slid downhill away from the Mid Oceanic Rifts WEDD + FD-WEDT – giggle 34:03 – The whole point of his theory = the earth cracked open somehow The weight of the crust cause the waters to burst out to make the Flood of NoahGen 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. The argument is that the whole world was covered by a flood – for 40+150 days NOT a wave or a series of waves washed over the hills34:03 – NOW HIS ARGUMENT CHANGES – Not a global flood at allAs the continents moved away from each other – they open up vast empty ocean floors A place for his flood waters to recede35:00 – His Grand Lake eroding the Grand Canyon – and laying down the layers seen in the Grand Canyon YES – there are several Grand Lake ideas – covering much of Wyoming Further North is the Missoula Flood basin YES – all eroding down the Colorado River Arrrrrg – I cannot stand itDr. Brown’s Earth cracked open allowing the waters to burst out – no mechanism provides or discussed Scripture speaks of a Global Flood for 40 + 150 daysDr. Brown talks of a series of tidal waves – and mud flows Dr. Brown has empty ocean floors ready to receive his flood waters Dr. Brown has empty ocean floors due to the separation of the continental plates Zero explanation of where they separated to – where did this empty ocean floor come from?WEDD – what is the mechanism – DecompressionThe Earth formed as a Jupiter Sized Gas Giant Protoplanet WEDD – the sun hiccupped – a tsunami wave swept the inner solar system 1- answering the question why is the inner solar system void of Gas Giants and the asteroidal debris that craters the inner planets and moon 2- without that Jupiter Sized Gas Giant Atmosphere (blown away by solar wind- hiccup – shock wave) Planetoid Pangea was allowed to DECOMPESS – expand – from with in – stored energy FD-WEDT – adds – a more detailed sequence of events 1- If the sun hick-upped in a way to blow away the atms of the inner solar system – it would have been a Rapid and catastrophic event 2- The earth would have cracked like an egg 3- the mantel would have outgassed first – pop the top on that carbonated drink and – boom bubbles appear through out the liquid all racing for the exit Step 1 – the gasses locked within the mantel – would have exploded – racking earth – ripping earth open Step 2 – followed by the fluids – liquids – rapid and catastrophic Protoplanet Earth became Planet Oceania – a complete water world - global flood – for 40+150 days Step 3 – followed by the more liquid of the mantel – lava traps – ocean floor – volcanic eruptions – all underwater Step 4 – followed by the slower – semi-solid mantel – pushing the continental plates back up through the waters Step 5- and the continental plates continued to push through the waters – waters did recede The waters di not recede into empty ocean floors – the planet just continued to decompress pushing the land back up to todays present configuration FD-WEDT – evidence for flash erosion of the American WestYES – as the land rose up though the American West – water receded and caused erosion There are several National Parks dedicated to the formations left behind Bryce canyon – Arches national Monument – Zion national Forest – Petrified Forest – etc All caused by water erosion ALSO – every Park Ranger will tell you that in fact – 1000s of feet of soil has been eroded away from the American West – 1000s of square miles – 2 and ½ States – leaving behind these towering harder rockAs the Colorado Plateau continued to rise – massive lakes dumped downstream as well All this missing soil then carves out the Grand Canyon – then all this missing soil moving downstream does what?Every other river system in the world forms deltas – massive deltas you can see from space Colorado = no appreciable delta at all – only box canyon baja FD-WEDT – this is evidence that these missing soils were all flushed out to sea in a rapid and catastrophe event Question – why would a River climb an elevation to carve a canyon1- either the river was there first and the ground slowely raises as is taught 2- or the Grand Canyon is a secondary decompression crack on the edge of the Colorado Plateau - and the river naturally fell into the crack 35:50 – Pancake layering of the Grand Canyon – without erosion 36:00 – he correctly says – all the layer were there first – then erosion WEDD - the layering we see in the geological record was created by the continued raining out of materals from the Jupiter Sized Gas Giant Atmosphere Just as Jupiter swallows asteroidal debris / fragments today - they are burnt up in the heaven atm The remaing resudue rains doen upon the rocky planetoid at the core During Protoplane Earth - the inner solar system was filled with rocky impacts Impacts with our Gas Giant ATM - just consumed them and rained them upon the cores in a layering fashion (google) This makes cosmic dust the most abundant source of extraterrestrial material on Earth. Every year 5,200 tons (4,700 metric tons) of interplanetary dust particles reach the Earth's surface, a new study reports. 41:18 – His point - finally – where did the missing soils go?I want to point out that he just made the case that the layering of the Grand Canyon was caused by repeated mud flows I tried to ask him where all the mud flows come from in the first place – No Response42:30- The conclusion = Brown’s Theory explains mud flows building up to form the layers – and the erosion processNO explanation of where the mud came from – or where the missing soils go 43:00 – fossil evidence of the flood – already discussed46:06 – Dino burials and the Grand Canyon = the same even- = agree 48:00 – Dino tracks in coal 1- Creationist say coal came after the flood – all the coal is buried – how do you get dino tracks? 2- Dinos were wiped out by the flood – coal comes after the flood – how do you get dino tracks in coal 50:55 – Dinosaur National Park – Vernal Utah – Hmmmm? 56:55 - Snelling, Science bee in amber, extracted for stomach, live bacteria, so not old at all. Scientist (evolutionist) could not believe that bacteria have not changed (evolved) in millions of years YES – for the MILLIONTH TIME – no geneticist accepts evolution!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2022 5:01:13 GMT -5
Question - if this coal seam is a result of flood waters carrying vegetation from long distance to accumulate here - how do you explain - why aren’t the coal seam infiltrated with clays – or other flood debris R" wood + clay + heated water + time = coal, no clay remains, the clay is consumed in the process.
D"or other flood debris R" We find fossils of clams, dinos etc in the coal, even tree trunks.
D"YES – there are several Grand Lake ideas – covering much of Wyoming Further North is the Missoula Flood basin YES – all eroding down the Colorado River
Arrrrrg – I cannot stand it R" I thought you love Walter Brown, now you don't like listening to him on video?
D"Dr. Brown talks of a series of tidal waves – and mud flows Dr. Brown has empty ocean floors ready to receive his flood waters Dr. Brown has empty ocean floors due to the separation of the continental plates R" Your a funny guy, I show you walter Brown theory and you don't like Walter Brown....??
D"WEDD – what is the mechanism – Decompression The Earth formed as a Jupiter Sized Gas Giant Protoplanet WEDD – the sun hiccupped – a tsunami wave swept the inner solar system 1- answering the question why is the inner solar system void of Gas Giants and the asteroidal debris that craters the inner planets and moon 2- without that Jupiter Sized Gas Giant Atmosphere (blown away by solar wind- hiccup – shock wave) Planetoid Pangea was allowed to DECOMPESS – expand – from with in – stored energy R" OK where does this theory come from, obviously not Walter Brown?
D"If the sun hick-upped in a way to blow away the atms of the inner solar system – it would have been a Rapid and catastrophic event R" Video on this idea? Or a website somewhere?
D"WEDD - the layering we see in the geological record was created by the continued raining out of materals from the Jupiter Sized Gas Giant Atmosphere R" What is WEDD and who invented this theory, do you have a video on this? So you do not like Walter Brown or his hydro plate theory...Hmm?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Mar 23, 2022 8:39:40 GMT -5
Arrrrrg – I cannot stand it R" I thought you love Walter Brown, now you don't like listening to him on video? Robert – you are now being deliberately disrespectful to me – this forum – this ministry Your personal attack and continued mocking is obvious – all you choose to do is oppose I know exactly who you are – and what your mission is
Either step up to a serious conversation - or go preach your satan elsewhere Your complete lack of dedication to the truth of who I am smacks of disrespect and I am about done with it Either step up to a serious conversation - or go preach your satan elsewhere
Your comments mean nothing - carry no weight - because sooner or later you will just change your mind and say - it not your view - the SDA version of having strong convictions
D"Dr. Brown’s hydroplate theory has so many holes in it – he will not engage in peer review Not supported by the evidence – the on;ly people who buy into his crap are creationist idiots R" Your a funny guy, I show you walter Brown theory and you don't like Walter Brown....?? You have always know – I stand against him and his theory We have discuss this fact many times – your dissrfespect is obvious - Christian
You - yourself once before failed to locate his theory - and his book is only $75USD But his theory is not even reprinted inside his own book
D"WEDD – what is the mechanism – Decompression R" OK where does this theory come from, obviously not Walter Brown? Answered many times - discussed many times – just more of your – I cannot find it The very essence and point of the ministry and this forum
D"If the sun hick-upped in a way to blow away the atms of the inner solar system – it would have been a Rapid and catastrophic event R" Video on this idea? Or a website somewhere? What is wrong with the posted theory – or the posted web-site of the author of the theory – or the videos posted on his web-site – or the videos linked from my web-site
How does Dr. Brown's theory answer the qestion of nothing ever died before Adam?
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Post by Dave on Mar 23, 2022 10:57:17 GMT -5
Walter Brown’s Hydroplate Theory – begins with a smaller planet with a continuous rocky crust His smaller planet additionally has large shallow seas - very much like ancient Mars Then a giant earthquake ripped the planet apart – and all of the continents separated from one another And the waters below acted like a lubricant allowing the continents to slide easily / rapidly Question #1 – How can this possibly happen unless the earth’s mantle also swells / enlarges / expands Walter Brown totally over looks this issue in his theoryThen as the continental plates sank – those waters were burst forth – squished out as the continents were now allowed to sink down where the water once was These squished out – burst forth waters – washed over the land – tsunamis - title waves – mud slides In fact – these tsunamis and mud slides happened not ONCE but 4-6 times Then the waters all settled into (receded into) the empty ocean basins to form our oceans 1- His theory only holds water if the mantel also expanded – but absolutely no comment by him 2- His ideas of tsunamis and mud flows do not validate a scriptural global flood for 40 + 150 daysWhat mechanism does Ellen White have for earthquakes – oil and gas burning deep within the earth When does Ellen White say coal and oil formed – after the largest earthquake imaginable? Does your Walter Brown validate Ellen White as a prophet of the Lord – NO Does Ellen White support Dr. Browns view – NO How can they both be Roberts view? P.S. Dr. Brown Hydroplate Theory does not or cannot address the anomally of the Pacific GapAnd none of this says anything about nothing died before Adam - Still waiting
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2022 15:35:16 GMT -5
Greetings
I am not attacking your Hendron whole earth decompression dynamic theory, only asking you validate it with details, looked at Hendrons videos 3 times but not much detail there.
Mrs White does not make details of such things, so no help there.
I only note Brown's hydroplate theory as a theory of the past.
Take theories of the past with a grain of salt.
Creation theory has also little evidence, and so we just take the evidence we are told as all we need to know.
You ask "And none of this says anything about nothing died before Adam - Still waiting"
I gave you evidence, but you deny this.
It's really up to you to prove muwth or maveth has two different meanings....
To me death has one meaning (both moral or natural) it means the cessation of our soul in communion with God, or in the case of insects without a soul, the end of the whole organism from living as a whole.
There is no such thing as natural death and moral death (arising from sin).
You have to prove this to me. All I see is one Hebrew word meaning death, and it started when Adam sinned, the process outlined by God for disobedience is a "muwth muwth" meaning a daily dying, until you die.
In other words, sin is by definition a gradual dying until you finally break relationship with God.
The second creation is a renewal of the first creation, so the process and words apply to either creation.
The first creation had night in it, the second creation has no night in it. Therefore night is a simile of sinning, so the first creation was developed around sinning angels already on earth, designed for a sinless human pair as a witness to this sinning.
Hence why two trees existed in the middle of the Garden.
We have been through all this before, but you refuse to listen and see my view.
Re 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
So death is removed from the creation.
That means to me nothing dies, not even a leaf eaten by herbivores on the tree. If a piece falls to the ground, it remains alive until the free living bacteria come along and eat it also, until nothing remains. And all the products of energy are fully assimilated, and recycled as products of the air with 100% efficiency. All the fibre is 100% soluble.
The ground is red, not blackened by decay and death. Death is no more.
Do you even understand when you say God creates natural death of things? If God is living, God is not the source of non-living. Your logic implies God has losses of entropy within Himself. You disparage GOD with your ideas, and mock His abilities.
Imagine no electrical resistance, no friction losses, no heat losses, a utopia we do not understand. I suggest rather than invent theories based on no evidence, you stick to what Scripture already tells us.
Re 21:4 ... and there shall be no more death,
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Mar 23, 2022 16:07:01 GMT -5
I am not attacking your Hendron whole earth decompression dynamic theory, only asking you validate it with details, looked at Hendrons videos 3 times but not much detail there. What about it don’t you understand – it is written at a 9th grade high school level
What are your questions – what don’t you understand Are the words too large for you = what is it? Mrs White does not make details of such things, so no help there. Coal and oil burning under the crust to create the earthquake that cause the formation of oil and coal Just exactly what type double speaking flip flopping nonsense are you trying to promote
OH – I know they are not really your views I keep asking you for your views – still waiting Do you have any convictions Robert – or do you just go with whoever has the prettiest video?
I only note Brown's hydroplate theory as a theory of the past. So – it is not your view – then why do you post it of you do not support it?
Creation theory has also little evidence, and so we just take the evidence we are told as all we need to know. The amount of empirical evidence is staggering from so many different disciplines You deny it – you deny it – you deny it – then say there is no evidence
You ask "And none of this says anything about nothing died before Adam - Still waiting" I gave you evidence, but you deny this. NO – still waiting for your scriptural proof All you offer is a promise of the future
It's really up to you to prove muwth or maveth has two different meanings.... You slobber all over Jeff Brenner as you go to expert Yet – you even deny him to maintain you SDA doctrine Don’t you ever get tired of denying everything around you
Hence why two trees existed in the middle of the Garden. We have been through all this before, but you refuse to listen and see my view.
Two trees represent a choice – choose LIFE or choose disobedience Eve chose disobedience – therefore the Tree of Life was withheld Man was created mortal – mortality id by design – as you have made clear – Adam and Eve need the antidote for death to life immortally – without access to that tree – they died just as all the animals die
Re 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. So death is removed from the creation. YES – a promise of the future
The ground is red, not blackened by decay and death. Death is no more. YES – a promise of the future
Re 21:4 ... and there shall be no more death, YES – a promise of the future
You ask "And none of this says anything about nothing died before Adam - Still waiting" I gave you evidence, but you deny this. NO – still waiting for your scriptural proof All you offer is a promise of the future
You have been attacking me and my views for 2 ½ years Defend you views – if you can ever discover what they are
You have been an active SDA for years - you have been a missionary - you have a web-site to preach SDA doctrine to the world - it seem courious that after all this time in SDA doctrine - you do not know what your own view is -
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2022 15:51:41 GMT -5
D"you have a web-site to preach SDA doctrine to the world R" Our website is not about SDA doctrine at all, I disagree immensely over the fact the SDA church baptize people nowadays vowing the HS is a "he" whatever that means.
I also do not like the SDA using the invented word "trinity".
The SDA do not have an idea of whom or what is the breath of life in us humans.
Very few SDA read their Bibles in Hebrew or Greek, only English, limiting understanding.
I attend the SDA because it is closest to my own views of the Bible.
D"YES – a promise of the future
R" You posted agreement with me three times.
How remarkable.
You agree the next creation is perfect with no death or ra in it?
The the first creation must have also been perfect, with no death or ra in it also.
How do I know this? Told you already but you don't listen.
Greek words kainos and neos.
kainos means renewed. Not brand new.
That means the second creation is a renewal of the first creation.
That means the second creation is a restoration of what the first creation had.
So you cannot reject the Scriptures detailing the second creation because it happened in the first creation. The only thing added to the second creation is a city for the generations of supporters after Adam's family.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
So the first creation had all herbivores. As this second creation tells us, is a renewal of the first creation, a restoration of what was once before.
The lion was originally a herbivore.
Re 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death,
The second creation has no death, so the first creation had no death as well.
Re 21:1 ¶ And I saw a new heaven and a new (kainos) earth:
Here is the verse that tells you this.... kainos.... note it is NOT neos
Go figure.
You are wrong my friend, this simple word, and in Greek.
Hebrew chadesh does not mean brand new, it means renewed. Taught to me by Jeff Benner.
De 18:4 The firstfruit also of thy corn, of thy wine,
Not sure if I remember, the Hebrew has a word for brand new here ?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Mar 24, 2022 20:07:48 GMT -5
D"you have a web-site to preach SDA doctrine to the world R" Our website is not about SDA doctrine at all, I disagree immensely I also do not like the I attend the SDA because it is closest to my own views of the Bible. So after all this time of preaching SDA doctrine and Ellen White We find out – it isn’t really your viewYou have been attacking me and my views for 2 ½ years Defend you views – if you can ever discover what they are You have been an active SDA for years - you have been a missionary - you have a web-site to preach SDA doctrine to the world - it seem courious that after all this time in SDA doctrine - you do not know what your own view is – D"YES – a promise of the future R" You posted agreement with me three times. How remarkable. You agree the next creation is perfect with no death or ra in it? Yes Robert – accept the Gnostic John – the Epistles of Gnostic John – and the Apocalypse of Gnostic John As well as all the other Gnostic authors of the agl/NT – as well as all the other authors of the agl/NT The the first creation must have also been perfect, with no death or ra in it also.Correction – you REFUSE to define your terms – so you can play word games Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. Entropy is inherent to – a by-product of creation – it is not the evil you want it to be If you light a candle to make light to read the scriptures – the candle is consumed – Robert calls this evilIf I decelerate to avoid running over a child – Robert calls this evilFrom the explosive (E) energy release of creation – creation cools – and eventually will reach the nothingness of absolute zero (the absence of any motion) – Robert calls this evilRobert’s ‘Best Video ever about Noah’s Flood’ said Then this video says that microbes eating (ra according to Robert) is a tov for the ecosystem on the Ark As if – there is an INTELIGENT DESIGN Robert absolutely denies a ra can be tov Ra is the result of sin according to Robert So if ra produces the tov – then the tov is produced by the sin Sin = ra = tov Robert’s model is just wrong because he refuses to admit that ra is not always evil – it is just entropy According to Robert – there was nothing carnivorous before Adam sinned – because eating is a ra Yet Robert’s own creationist video depends on God creating of one type of bacteria eating another to maintain health aboard the ark – for the ultimate tov According to Robert’s view this is ra and is a result of sin – and would have never happened before Adam Medical Question for Robert – did Adam and Eve defecate? Did they digest any food? You say they needed the antidote from the Tree of Life to stave off mortality? Digestion is absolutely depended upon one bacterial life form eating another When I was in High Scholl I could have never imagined myself saying this but – ‘I am a shit expert’ I have seen more animal + human stool under a microscope than you can imagine 99.9% of stool is a bacterial colony – only a small part of undigested food every makes it onto a microscope slide. Human Life is a symbiosis of millions of organisms within us – and crawling all over us – all microscopic – all busy eating one another – or competing for food to starve out the competitor Even on the microscopic scale – it is a dog eat dog world – held in a delicate balance All evident to the Intelligent design – the balance Why does truth scare you so much – that you instruct other to stay away from the facts? Science is finally validating scripture on a grand scale – Most Christians are excited about the validation - and you are working to deny it!I told you already but you don't listen. Greek words kainos and neos. kainos means renewed. Not brand new. That means the second creation is a renewal of the first creation. That means the second creation is a restoration of what the first creation had. So you cannot reject the Scriptures detailing the second creation because it happened in the first creation. The only thing added to the second creation is a city for the generations of supporters after Adam's family. AND THE ONLY THING MISSING =Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. … Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Judgment Before the Great White Throne Rev 20:11-15 (and those they corrupted) Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. YES – a promise of the futureThe second creation has no death, so the first creation had no death as well. YES – a promise of the futureHebrew chadesh does not mean brand new, it means renewed. Taught to me by Jeff Benner. Question – if you take your car to the body shop – and say renew it – or make it like new Does it come back to you with the choshek / damage / rust / dent Or does it come back renewed – without the chioshek?What does scripture say? - Gen 1:2 + Rev 12:10-15 + Rev 21 + 22 Everything you say about the future promise - I agee with - because I accept scriptureBut scripture also says - this creation of ours contains choshek from the very first DayIt is NOT EVIL it is Entropy - because it will all pass away - it is all corruptibility It is the lesson of nature - witnessing loud and clear - we are just passing through - temporary - fleeting Does man use entropy to maximize his own (yester ra) - absolutely Each and every new discovery leads to a new and bigger weapon - We call it human nature - the nature of the beast - carving out our own little kingdoms here in the WORLD Someone put the compromise this way - I do the things I have to do to live the life I choose to live Free Will - Praise the Lord or choose the WorldFree Will - Jer 1:5 - or NOT[/b] Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment. Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. YES - Jer 1:5 + Jer 1:5 to my neighborMat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. What it the most important thing some can do for me or you - Jer 1:5 It is the perfect summation of the agl /agl message - Life Lives - choose Life - choose GodWhat IS LIFELife was created eternal on Day 1 along with all the Host of the heavens Life was not created to extinguish / expire / die - Life was created eternal Animal life on this planet is just nature driven by God’s commandment – ‘be fruitful and multiply’ (yester ra) self-preservation and the survival of the species Man of Gen 1 = 100% animal / biology / animal complete with (yester ra) self-preservation and the survival of the species Gen 2:7 man became a HUMAN BEING (animal biology – yester ra) + (spirit man – perfect man – from the Host of heaven – yester tov) Man = animal + spirit/soul Man = Flesh + spirit/soul Man = (yester ra) + (yester tov) Ecc 3:17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work. Ecc 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. Ecc 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? Ecc 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Ecc 12:8 Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity. From God we came – we souljourne here in the flesh - and to God we returnFrom God we came – we souljourn here in the flesh until DEATH #1 – death of biology - Thank you Eve – Rom 5:12 + Rom 6:23 + John 3:16 AND Thanks to John 3:16 all of us have the opportunity to ESCAPE that SECOND DEATH – spiritual death WHY DO YOU MOCK THE SPIRIT? – Why do you deny the spirit?You posted crap about SDA people seeing ghosts and apparitions – but you refuse to call them spirits You talk about evil spirits – but you refuse to call the spirits You talk about angels – but refuse to call them spirit Everything is biologyI say that the Archon are created with some matter and have offspring – even with human biologyYou – deny it - you deny it - you dent it Either you truly have no concept of what you really believe OR – you are just here to tear down mainstream Christianity – to promote your satan teaching which is just 100% a Roman invention in disguise WAKE UP – not only is our own universe unfathomable – we also exist with a 10 dimensional reality filled with life throughout Our little 3D physical corner of it is only 1/10th of the ALL Even if you kept your Ezk 28 as part of your faith Why do you work so hard to discredit creation? The truth is everywhere you look – any time you look – and any scale you lookAt the very base of our reality is the fact – we just might be one giany hologram / an illusion – because all physical substance is just tiny clouds of E – that dance a cosmic dance of chaos called symmetry Positives and negatives – circle one another yielding the EM spectrum the reverberates all though reality – the matrix – the ether – the base E that sustains the ALL Is this pantheists on a sub atomic scale – YES – admittedly – E=mc2 – everything is an expression of the E Is this pantheisms – NO! – we are not all fraction of God – as if broken off from the whole – as in gather it all back together = God – NO We are each created as (NOT BIOLOGY) spirit – along with all the host of heaven on Day 1 Each and every ant – cow – spiritual man (Gen 2:1-4) + biological man (Gen 1:26) - angel – archon - are created as independent unique individuals Animals are animal (yester tov) Archon are arcon (yester ra) Angels are not biological animals (yester tov) Biological man (Gen 1:26) is an animal (yester ra) Spirit man (Gen 2:1-4) is not a biological animal (yester tov) Gen 2:7 Man becomes a Human being- (animal (yester ra) + spiritual (yester tov) This is why a Rabbi will say – man is the creature than can choose The truth is everywhere you look – any time you look – and any scale you lookAt the very base of our reality is the fact – we just might be one giant hologram / an illusion – because all physical substance is just tiny clouds of E – that dance a cosmic dance of chaos called symmetry The Periodic table as a witness to the 10 dimensional realityEach level on the Periodic Table is a step up in energy level – each level behaves differently Level 1 begins with the duality and ends with a Trinity Each of the next 6 higher levels of E – act different because they are shaped differently YET – all occupy the exact same space we call one atom The foundation of our 3D reality 7 levels of E + our 3D = the ALL 7D +3D = 10D = the ALL WAKE UP – not only is our own universe unfathomable – we also exist with a 10 dimensional reality filled with life throughout Our little 3D physical corner of it is only 1/10th of the ALL What is LIFE LIFE LIVES – since Day 1 – created eternal Human beings ate spirit led animals – animals with a guilty conscious We know better (yester tov) but we choose (yester ra) anyway Eve was the proof – all men are sinners sooner or later Why did Jesus have to dies? To prove LIFE LIVES – 3 days later (after he preached to the lost in hades) He rose from the dead – Life Lives – We are spirit beings – having a physical experience – and to God we will return Now show some respect – every video you have suggested I have commented on precept upon precept, line upon lineI have posted WEDD and FD-WEDT (part 1) so you can find them Review it – ask questions – make comments – it is called peer review UNLIKE DR. BROWN, Ken Hamm, and the ICR - I invite it – tear it to shreds – point out all its faults – tell me why it does not fit the science or the scripture
You say I need a fancy video Truth – 2012 I sought out the creation of a youtube video – with the cheapest professional group I could find near the State of Washington - $3,000 USD a minute For more $$$ I could pick from a list of professional voices – for the voice over For even more $$$$ I could hire an actor to play a Rabbi or Professor My voice sounds terrible on tape Then – let’s talk special effects I was honest with you – there was a $$$ crises in my ministry I turn away donations and have not complete my tax exempt status I have thought of doing my own on Windows Movie maker But – my daughters have taught me – amateur does not impress I cannot compete with Neal Adams – his videos are killer I cannot improve on WEDD – and FD-WEDT speaks for itself Are you a professional video youtube presenter? – I have tried to take a “Skill Share Class” – but my phone’s hot spot is my internet connection – not enough bandwidth YouTube – Hulu – no problem Amazon Prime – OK if we turn the video quality to low Skill Share – won’t play – the compromise of being in the boonies
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Post by Nicole on Mar 26, 2022 14:07:38 GMT -5
Just a thought:
D "YES – a promise of the future
R" You posted agreement with me three times.
How remarkable.
You agree the next creation is perfect with no death or ra in it?
R “The the first creation must have also been perfect, with no death or ra in it also.
D “Correction – you REFUSE to define your terms – so you can play word games
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
Entropy is inherent to – a by-product of creation – it is not the evil you want it to be
Entropy
The first creation is temporary, It will all pass away. It is corruptible. It will come to an end. It will waste away. It will stop. It will cease to exist.
Without Entropy
The new heaven and earth are eternal
(google) How do you explain entropy to a child?
The entropy of an object is a measure of the amount of energy which is unavailable to do work.
(google) Why entropy is important in our life?
Why Does Entropy Matter for Your Life? Here's the crucial thing about entropy: it always increases over time. It is the natural tendency of things to lose order. Left to its own devices, life will always become less structured.
D “From the explosive (E) energy release of creation – creation cools – and eventually will reach the nothingness of absolute zero (the absence of any motion) – Robert calls this evil”
In information theory, the entropy of a random variable is the average level of "information", "surprise", or "uncertainty" inherent to the variable's possible outcomes
A real life example of entropy of information is math. At one time in our lives we could all pass a test. Could we all pass that same test today? If you use it over and over you are good at it. If you do not think about it for 40 years that same test is impossible. Entropy of information. We forget.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2022 18:36:40 GMT -5
D" Correction – you REFUSE to define your terms – so you can play word games Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.R" I see, so this state God find earth is, shows us that God created Adam's creation with RA (entropy) in mind? My question to you is why was earth initially with void and without form? Second question: Just because earth is initially found this way, does not mean God's creation on earth including some aspects of void and without form creative parts to it. God declared Creation on earth "very good". So something wrong with your assumptions. So third question What happened to earth to have caused this less than perfect creation, as we assume earth was created long ago before the creation on earth for Adam, its clearly suggests to me, earth was not created during the Creation Week, but was already there from a previous creation, but is now void and formless? D" Robert absolutely denies a ra can be tovR" Have a look at all the verses that use RA, and see if any verses have a trace of TOV in them Dave, to back your claim, that God normally uses RA as some natural entropy? D" Robert’s model is just wrong because he refuses to admit that ra is not always evil – it is just entropyR" Well if that is true, it should be easy for you to show me a verse with natural RA as mere entropy? D" According to Robert – there was nothing carnivorous before Adam sinned – because eating is a raR" I love the way you misquote me....Who said eating is RA? D" Medical Question for Robert – did Adam and Eve defecate? Did they digest any food? You say they needed the antidote from the Tree of Life to stave off mortality?R" The mocking question again with your own twisting... D" did Adam and Eve defecate? R" Before they sinned? Hmm? Possible free living bacteria which is all poop is, may have fallen to the ground, as with other animals, and remained living on the ground in the soil, all fibre was 100% soluble, I am learning towards "no", but the Scriptures does not say, however a "very functional" creation implies a utopia we do not fathom. D" Did they digest any food? R" Yes, but all food is 100% efficient and perfectly taken up by the animals, including man. D" You say they needed the antidote from the Tree of Life to stave off mortality?R" Twist. Eating this special food, gave mankind a complete source of nutrition....whatever that means...that allowed them to leave forever....I do not like your antidote thing, because living is a relationship with GOD, and thus the eating of the food from a tree of living, may have been a symbol of relationship, rather than a strict requirement....you mock and insist to know all things....we have to remain humble and leave many questions unanswered.... D" Digestion is absolutely depended upon one bacterial life form eating anotherR" I would challenge this idea... Free living bacteria do not eat each other... D" 99.9% of stool is a bacterial colony Human Life is a symbiosis of millions of organisms within usR" Yes I get the impression that all food we eat has to be organic and complex in nature (not the simple substances my science days taught) Hence we should eat organic minerals too, not inorganic minerals as many of us do... ie salt... D" Even on the microscopic scale – it is a dog eat dog world – held in a delicate balanceR" Assumption.....not so.... free living bacteria eat foods they find, they do not eat each other....that would be termed killing, and hence a ra, and if this occurs would be due to the fact that the food is no longer good, so the bacteria have to kill to survive....hence a curse of sin or missing perfection from God D" Science is finally validating scripture on a grand scale –R" You must be kidding.... Creation Science maybe, but not evolutionary science, the science of the major players, who are paid to research what sponsors tell them to research. Whole museums are set up as sponsors want, nothing is pure research seeking "truth" anymore. D" AND THE ONLY THING MISSING = Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. …R" How nice of you to avoid kainos and neo and sneak in this verse, without asking the question, why did GOD not create a brand new earth for Adam, in fact earth was already here void and formless, and so God created perfection over the earth and for this void and formless planet? OK but why? Dave never seeks to find out why, only to assume natural entropy is something God plays around with.... D"Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. YES – a promise of the futureR" Renewed creation means the first creation has herbivore lions too. D"Question – if you take your car to the body shop – and say renew it – or make it like new Does it come back to you with the choshek / damage / rust / dent Or does it come back renewed – without the chioshek?R" A brand new repair job would be replacing the dints with brand new panels from manufacture. A renewal could mean repairing the old dints with bog so it looks brand new. You mock our Creator Dave. What is wrong with earth is the missing of God's powers. What causes that is relationship lost. What fixes that is relationship restored. Thus the earth is restored to perfection because God is perfection. If your DNA is corrupt causing rust in your cellular living, God replaces the DNA with the original codes that have no mistakes and no errors, thus the CODE makes cellular living perfect from that day on. Your old body is completely restored when the CODE rebuilds it every 3 months. Nothing like a car re-makeover. D" But scripture also says - this creation of ours contains choshek from the very first DayR" Yes I agree, but why was there "choshek from the very first Day" ? That is my question to you? Ex 20:21 And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was. Not "choshek" here. Jer 13:16 Give glory to the LORD your God, before he cause darkness, and before your feet stumble upon the dark mountains, and, while ye look for light, he turn it into the shadow of death, and make it gross darkness. Not "choshek" here. Ac 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. skotos is "choshek" here. Jeff Benner:- Grk#:4655 / skot-os (noun): Darkness Freq:&32 Heb#:2822 חושך / hho-shekh (noun): Darkness—The state of being dark. As the darkness of a moonless night 1Jo 1:5 ¶ This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. No "choshek" " skotos " found in GOD. OK so where does "skotos" / "choshek" come from? "from the power of Satan unto God" From the first cherub who sinned and caused this "skotos" / "choshek" . This is something you ignore. You have angels created during earth creation, not before. You have earth created (somehow) during Creation Week? You have the war in heaven happening after the Creation Week on earth? I have angels created before earth was ever created. I have earth not created during Creation Week for Adam, was already in darkness long ago. Why was earth in this darkness? Because a war in heaven occured long ago before Creation Week of Adam, and God banished sinning angels there unto the earth, left earth and the sinning angels there, causing darkness and formlessness upon the earth. We have totally different views of earth and the creation of things on earth. D" What IS LIFE Life was created eternal on Day 1 along with all the Host of the heavens Life was not created to extinguish / expire / die - Life was created eternalR" Life cannot be created....what a stupid thing to say.... Only God is living and eternal.... You say things so way off track.... D" Gen 2:7 man became a HUMAN BEINGR" Your brevity is confusing? SO does this mean GOD created eternal living and placed man in biology which implies entropy and thus natural death? If God created eternal living spirits, how come God can remove this during the second death? Than the eternal living is not eternal is it? Nor was it created? D" From God we came – we souljourn here in the flesh until DEATH #1 – death of biology - Thank you Eve – Rom 5:12 + Rom 6:23 + John 3:16 AND Thanks to John 3:16 all of us have the opportunity to ESCAPE that SECOND DEATH – spiritual deathR" OH so this created eternal living can experience a spiritual death, while the biology the eternal living is attached to experiences a biological death? So you develop two different meanings for the first muwth and the second muwth, when its the same Hebrew word for both? Please explain. A Hebrew word should have a single basic meaning, not two as you claim. First death is a relationship broken, second death is a relationship severed. One is a sleep the other permanent. Both are about relationship to God, the only thing that gives us living. D" WHY DO YOU MOCK THE SPIRIT? – Why do you deny the spirit?R" Because the wind (which is what spirit means) does not exist as an entity. Wind is a medium, caused by air (media) moving in air (media) from one place to another place (energy gradient). Since when does a medium have an eternal existence? When you look into a medium you perceive to see ghost like entities doing this and that, but such entities do not exist as shapes outside the medium. If GOD allows the sinning angels to show themselves to humans, (outside of the medium) , which He will do one day, you will find these angels look like humans in shape form as many Hebrew visions of angels describe them. We would see ordinary 2 arm and 2 leg creatures with sinning traits over their head like form. They do not have wings, they would look more or less as larger versions of humans. My two pennies . D" I say that the Archon are created with some matter and have offspring – even with human biology You – deny it - you deny it - R" Archons is a word you invent to describe sinning angels, many of them deceive humans in all kinds of ways. The Hebrew word 'shad' (shedim) refers to "providers of false milk" these sinning angels are 'providers of false truth' and thus along with their chief father of lies, they seek to keep humans from being saved. The word is chosen to be the opposite to "shad-day" the HS who provides true milk to humans who seek salvation from GOD. D" we also exist with a 10 dimensional reality filled with life throughoutR" You speak of mysteries...we cannot know for certain... D" Even if you kept your Ezk 28 as part of your faith Why do you work so hard to discredit creation?R" Creation has to be the same as Creation in Rev 22. One needs to ask why was earth NOT created and why was earth with darkness already on it. Things you do not investigate. D" The truth is everywhere you look R" Ge 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 ¶ And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Question: Was earth created in Creation Week, or already there? Answer: Earth was already there during Creation Week, was not created. Next question: Why was earth void and formless than, and not already perfect? Answer: God left earth, the relationship of God to earth was broken, causing earth to be void and formless, so we need to ask why was earth devoid of relationship to God? What causes this relationship to be broken? D" Positives and negatives – circle one another yielding the EM spectrum the reverberates all though reality R" GOD is not a natural quantum of positive and negative circles of motion. Assumption. My understanding is GOD is absolute motion, and therefore positive in all things God does. D" Is this pantheisms – NO! – we are not all fraction of God – as if broken off from the whole – as in gather it all back together = God – NOR" correct D" We are each created as (NOT BIOLOGY) spirit – along with all the host of heaven on Day 1R" Where does Scripture say man was created eternally living on Day 1? So you say the spirit component was joined to the biological component on day 6? Where is your scripture? D" Animals are animal (yester tov) Archon are arcon (yester ra) Angels are not biological animals (yester tov) Biological man (Gen 1:26) is an animal (yester ra) Spirit man (Gen 2:1-4) is not a biological animal (yester tov) Gen 2:7 Man becomes a Human being- (animal (yester ra) + spiritual (yester tov) This is why a Rabbi will say – man is the creature than can choose
The truth is everywhere you look – any time you look – and any scale you lookR" I see Animals are programmed creatures with ' yester tov'. How come some animals do more ' yester ra', parasite worm in the human eye ? Some animals like archons are programmed creatures with ' yester ra'.Why would God intentionally created animals with 'yester ra' that destroy His yester tov' ? Angels are not biological animals programmed creatures with ' yester tov'.How come angels eat manna? Why did some angels sin in you Gen 6 theory? Spirit man is not biological and programmed to do 'yester tov'How can a spirit man be created? Bible proof? Man becomes a Human being- (animal (yester ra) + spiritual (yester tov)This is not what Gen 2:7 says. It says God breathed upon man the breath of living. Nothing here created. The breathing of man comes from the presence of relationship with God, not as you claim something eternally created as living spirit. D" not only is our own universe unfathomableR" SO why are you trying to explain it? I don't. D" LIFE LIVES – since Day 1 – created eternalR" God cannot create creatures with eternal living spirits. God can only impart living to the creature He creates. Otherwise you are claiming God can creates other gods like Himself. D" Are you a professional video youtube presenter? R" I am nothing...never done a video....I am a writer... Nicole said " Entropy of information. We forget." R " Nice thought Shalom
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Post by Dave on Mar 27, 2022 11:49:55 GMT -5
D"Correction – you REFUSE to define your terms – so you can play word games Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. R" I see, so this state God find earth is, shows us that God created Adam's creation with RA (entropy) in mind?YES – God created our reality as a 3D physical / corporeal world This world is terminal– it is corruptible – because it is temporary – It was all pass way = EntropyMy question to you is why was earth initially with void and without form?Creation did not go from nothingness to our planet today foully formed – there were many steps of ra in the processSecond question: Just because earth is initially found this way, does not mean God made it that wayIf God made it differently – who has the power to change God’s Plan against God’s Will If God made it differently – who is the other creator God declared Creation on earth "very good".YES He did – choshek and allSo third question What happened to earth to have caused this less than perfect creationWhat is the scriptural bases for your question – God declared Creation on earth "very good". Really - this is the best answer you will ever getEntropy The first creation is temporary, It will all pass away. It is corruptible. It will come to an end. It will waste away. It will stop. It will cease to exist. Entropy is inherent to – a by-product of creation – it is not the evil you want it to be Without Entropy The new heaven and earth are eternal D"Robert absolutely denies a ra can be tov R" Have a look at all the verses that use RA, and see if any verses have a trace of TOV in them Dave, to back your claim, that God normally uses RA as some natural entropy?Gen 45:5 Now therefore be not grieved, nor angry with yourselves, that ye sold me hither: for God did send me before you to preserve life. Gen 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive. Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. Psa 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Psa 23:5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. The Exegesis on the SoulFor the beginning of salvation is repentance. Therefore (cf. Acts 13:24), "Before Christ`s appearance came John, preaching the baptism of repentance."
And repentance takes place in distress and grief. But the father is good and loves humanity, and he hears the soul that calls upon him and sends it the light of salvation. Therefore he said through the spirit to the prophet (cf. 1 Cl 8:3), "Say to the children of my people, 'If your sins extend from earth to heaven, and if they become red like scarlet and blacker than sackcloth, and if you return to me with all your soul and say to me 'my Father!', I will heed you as a holy people.'"
Again another place (Is 30:15), "Thus says the lord, the holy one of Israel: "If you return and sigh, then you will be saved and will know where you were when you trusted in what is empty."
Again he said in another place (Is 30:19-20), "Jerusalem wept much, saying, 'Have pity on me.' He will have pity on the sound of your weeping. And when he saw, he heeded you. And the lord will give you bread of affliction and water of oppression. From now on, those who deceive will not approach you again. Your eyes will see those who are deceiving you."
Therefore it is fitting to pray to God night and day, spreading out our hands towards him as do people sailing in the middle of the sea: they pray to God with all their heart without hypocrisy. For those who pray hypocritically deceive only themselves. Indeed, it is in order that he might know who is worthy of salvation that God examines the inward parts and searches the bottom of the heart. For no one is worthy of salvation whoD"According to Robert – there was nothing carnivorous before Adam sinned – because eating is a ra R" I love the way you misquote me....Who said eating is RA?Carnivorous = adjective (of an animal) feeding on other animals.So confused – did animals eat meat before Adam or not – please make up your mind! Please pick one theology and stick to it – show some convictionD"Medical Question for Robert – did Adam and Eve defecate? D"Did they digest any food? R" Yes, but all food is 100% efficient and perfectly taken up by the animals, including man.Again – this is your myth - where is your scripture D"You say they needed the antidote from the Tree of Life to stave off mortality? R" Twist. Please pick one theology and stick to it – show some convictionWhy was the tree of Life withheld – does not Ellen White Adam and Eve at from the Tree of Life for 33 years – I have asked you for your scripture on this – but you have never answered that question eitherD"Digestion is absolutely depended upon one bacterial life form eating another R" I would challenge this idea... Free living bacteria do not eat each other...Please by a book – take a class – stop impressing other with your 8th grade science from the 19th century1- Single cell organisms consume other organisms by a process called phagocytosis – look it up 2- Bacteria compete rigorously for food – competing to starve the other bacteria out – without this competition taking place in your stomatch or on your skin – the ra bacteria would eat you to deathD"Even on the microscopic scale – it is a dog eat dog world – held in a delicate balance R" Assumption.....not so.... So – you deny the Intelligent Design is by God - you attribute the intelligent design to your creator satan D"Science is finally validating scripture on a grand scale – R" You must be kidding.... So – you deny the Intelligent Design is by God - you attribute the intelligent design to your creator satanD"Question – if you take your car to the body shop – and say renew it – or make it like new Does it come back to you with the choshek / damage / rust / dent Or does it come back renewed – without the chioshek? R" A brand new repair job would be replacing the dints with brand new panels from manufacture. ANSWER the question – will God’s new heaven and earth contain the choshek of Gen 1:2?I am not afraid to take a stand – NO there is no choshek in the New Heaven and Earth Because – it was all cast into the Lake of Fire – the Second death D"But scripture also says - this creation of ours contains choshek from the very first Day R" Yes I agree, but why was there "choshek from the very first Day" ? That is my question to you? DUH – answered so many times – it cannor be more clearEntropy The first creation is temporary, It will all pass away. It is corruptible. It will come to an end. It will waste away. It will stop. It will cease to exist. Entropy is inherent to – a by-product of creation – it is not the evil you want it to be Without Entropy The new heaven and earth are eternal D"What IS LIFE Life was created eternal on Day 1 along with all the Host of the heavens Life was not created to extinguish / expire / die - Life was created eternal R" Life cannot be created.... what a stupid thing to say.... You are making the claim that God cannot create life –Are you sure you are a ChristianD"Gen 2:7 man became a HUMAN BEING R" Your brevity is confusing? SO does this mean GOD created eternal living and placed man in biology which implies entropy and thus natural death?Where does scripture call bacteria or cows as living beings? Scripture simply call them living creatures If God created eternal living spirits, how come God can remove this during the second death?Most American Mothers have an expression for this I brought you into this would and I can take you out!Than the eternal living is not eternal is it? Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. Why do you , Ellen White, and the SDA deny scripture – deny the promise of eternal lifeNor was it created?Gen 1:27 God created humankind in His image, in the image of God He created him,Why do you , Ellen White, and the SDA deny scripture – deny the promise of eternal life R" OH so this created eternal living can experience a spiritual death, YES – I accept the agl/NT scripture as the inspired word of God Rev 20:14 …. This is the second death—the lake of fire. Rev 20:15 And if anyone was not found written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Why do you , Ellen White, and the SDA deny scripture while the biology the eternal living is attached to experiences a biological death? YES – biology is temporary – it is terminal – all physical creation will pass away – corruptible So you develop two different meanings for the first muwth and the second muwth, when its the same Hebrew word for both? Please explain.NO – only one meaning = deathA Hebrew word should have a single basic meaning, not two as you claim.Why do you , Ellen White, and the SDA deny scriptureFirst death is a relationship broken, second death is a relationship severed. One is a sleep the other permanent. Both are about relationship to God, the only thing that gives us living. So you develop two different meanings for the first muwth and the second muwth, when its the same Hebrew word for both? Please explain.DUH - don't you ever tire of your word gamesDrink means to consume a liquid You can drink water You can drink milk You can drink fruit punch You can drink wine How many diffinitions for the word drink do you have - I only have one
Death of biology Death of spirit How many diffinitions for the word death do you have - I only have oneD"WHY DO YOU MOCK THE SPIRIT? – Why do you deny the spirit? R" Because the wind (which is what spirit means) does not exist as an entity. So – you teach that the Holy Spirit is not real – how very sad for youD"Even if you kept your Ezk 28 as part of your faith Why do you work so hard to discredit creation? R" Creation has to be the same as Creation in Rev 22.So – you teach that choshek – satan – the beast and the false prophets are all a part of the New Heaven and Earth One needs to ask why you teach thisQuestion: Was earth created in Creation Week, or already there? Answer: Earth was already there during Creation Week, was not created.Why do you , Ellen White, and the SDA deny scriptureD"Is this panetheisms – NO! – we are not all fraction of God – as if broken off from the whole – as in gather it all back together = God – NO R" correct How can you agree – man is not a free willing independent individual – man is just an animal empower by the Holy Spirit Please pick one theology and stick with itD"We are each created as (NOT BIOLOGY) spirit – along with all the host of heaven on Day 1 R" Where does Scripture say man was created eternally living on Day 1?Gen 2:1-4 So you say the spirit component was joined to the biological component on day 6? Where is your scripture?COME ON ROBERT – Gen 2:7 happened on Day 7Animals are programmed creatures with ' yester tov'. How come some animals do more ' yester ra', parasite worm in the human eye ?A parasite in your eye is just eating – living – and reproducing young – ‘go forth be fruitful and multiply’ Why do you say it is evil for animal to obey God’s commandment?Some animals like archons are programmed creatures with ' yester ra'. Why would God intentionally created animals with 'yester ra' that destroy His yester tov' ?(yester ra) = programmed self-preservation – the desire to reproduce – for the survival of the species ‘go forth be fruitful and multiply’ Why do you say it is evil to obey God’s commandment?Man becomes a Human being- (animal (yester ra) + spiritual (yester tov) This is not what Gen 2:7 says. It says God breathed upon man the breath of living. Nothing here created.Correct – Gen 2:7 is Day 7 – no new creationAnimal man was created on Day 6 Spiritual man was created on Day 1 Gen 2:7 is just the [pairing of the two – not new creation D"LIFE LIVES – since Day 1 – created eternal R" God cannot create creatures with eternal living spirits.Sorry your God is so limited – My God and the God of the Jews is AbsoluteJoh 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. Why do you and Ellen White deny agl/NT scripture?Otherwise you are claiming God can creates other gods like Himself.Sorry your God is so limited – no better than an angel or man - My God and the God of the Jews is AbsoluteAgain - you have spent the entire post picking at my views When are you going to defend your Ellen White as a prophet of the Lord Have you just given up = is your only evidence that she is correct - is that she says so?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2022 18:02:29 GMT -5
yesterday at 5:07am Nicole said Entropy The first creation is temporary, It will all pass away. It is corruptible. It will come to an end. It will waste away. It will stop. It will cease to exist. Entropy is inherent to – a by-product of creation – it is not the evil you want it to be
Without Entropy The new heaven and earth are eternal
Rob replies " Seems like Nicole agrees with you Dave, and doesn't agree with me. You have another supporter of your view and your theories of Gnostic Christianity, assuming such a thing is "truth".
Have a read through the whole chapter 42 of Isaiah and see if you find natural ra (entropy) there?
Isa 42:5 ¶ Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein
Both nashamah and ruwach are mentioned here as GOD created mankind that way.
"for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house".
Three Hebrew words describe Gentiles as in prison, as prisoners in a prison house. We are also termed blind.
Isa 42:8 ...I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Here is a clue to the prison keeper of the prison house with his prisoners, who are blind because they have no light.
Ps 82:1 GOD ....judgeth among the gods. Ps 82:4 Deliver the poor and needy
Ps 82:5 ...; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. This poetry has parallels, people in prison in the prison house in darkness, is a parallel to earth as a prison house in darkness with it's foundation out of course.
Ps 82:6 ¶ I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes
While all the Gentiles humans are elohiym and thus children of the Father in heaven, we fall like princes unto the earth, as prisoners in prison on earth, who lives in darkness and with it's foundation out of course, void and formless. Same pictures of parallel poetry.
So who is this elohiym power GOD who is the true elohiym power, OPPOSES and JUDGES?
Isa 42:13 ¶ The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war
The LORD our SAVIOUR goes forth as a mighty man, like a man of war...
Where have we seen this poetry simile before?
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
This means than Michael is the name of the Father's servant in Isaiah 42:1, who is our Saviour and our mighty man who is like a man of war. What else do we know of Michael, which means who is like elohiym?
Da 10:13 ..., lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me;
Michael is a first and chief prince who comes to help "me" the angel who came to Daniel in prayer.
Da 12:1 ¶ And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people:
Michael is a prince over a people stands up, so when did this prince sit down?
Da 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Da 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people,
So the Ancient of Days (the Most High / Father) gives His Son, the Son of Man, Michael the prince, a kingdom called earth. Michael sits down with His Father during a time of judgement/inspection of earth, the dark prison house with it's foundations moved from their courses.
Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Here Michael is a poetry simile function name with YHWH, the one who can raise dead humans such as Moses to life. This proves Michael is not a cherub, but a commander over the cherubims of heaven, the host armies at his command. Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: ( not angels, only Michael functionally on earth, termed our Yasha, the Saviour)
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought
So this mighty man, who functions as our Saviour, is a man of war... Also found here in Rev 12.
Isa 42:14 I have long time holden my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself: now will I cry like a travailing woman;
This man of war also cries like a woman in childbirth. Where is this poetry parallel?
Re 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. Here. Who is this woman in child birth? Re 12:4 ...the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
And who is the dragon ready to cause mischief to the baby as soon as it was born?
Ex 21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
The penalty for mischief is your life for the lives you spoil through the child.
Ge 3:20 ¶ And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living There is another functional descriptor for this name "chayah"
Job 33:4 The Spirit "Ruwach" of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty "SHADDAY" hath given me life "chayah".
The HS who functions as a medium like the wind, is also termed the SHADDAY, who is a functional mother of all ongoing living, the term here is "chayah". This process happens creatively through the compassion-centre, as the powers of the Father and or the Son flow through the medium of the HS, who admininstrates this process.
Ps 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. 11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
These verses describe the second birth Jesus spoke about to Nicodemus, once has to experience in order to faithfully support Jesus powers of salvation.
Isa 42:16 And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight.
Salvation is described as blind people seeing the light and their crooked ways becoming straight. We are rescued from the prison house. Isa 42:22 But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore.
The verse continues the sakme theme, earth is a prison house and we are blind in darkness, waiting for a saviour to restore us and restore earth.
Isa 42:23 Who among you will give ear to this?
Does Dave and Nicole understand this?
OK up to this point we have no reason why the war, why the need to fight, and why is earth a prison house in darkness with its foundations out of course. Isa 42:24 Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did not the LORD, he against whom we have sinned? for they would not walk in his ways, neither were they obedient unto his law.
Two things mentioned here (1) Robbers who spoil and thus cause mischief (2) People who sin and miss the powers of YHWH
Isa 42:25 Therefore he hath poured upon him the fury of his anger, and the strength of battle: and it hath set him on fire round about,
The "him" here is the "robbers" who spoil, the mischief maker who causes mischief. the enemies of war.
Now are these opponents only of human origin? No
Rev 12 tells us the dragon and his angels opposed Michael and his angels in a war.... What happened to this war? Well the rest of Rev 12 tells us the serpent and his angels was cast unto earth.
Re 20:1 ¶ And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him,
Here we see an angel coming down at a later stage on earth with a chain to bound Satan...on earth....
Re 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
And here we see Satan bound on earth, termed a prison.
Ac 5:18 And laid their hands on the apostles, and put them in the common prison
The term "common prison" implies the "term prison" has a broader term.
Isa 14:17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
Who made the earth as a prison house with prisoners?
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. The one opposing elohiym power claiming to be like the Most High .
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Dave lists verses with RA to try to claim GOD naturally uses RA, in a heaven without SIN? Gen 45:5 Gen 50:20 Rom 8:28 Rev 2:10 Jas 1:2 Jas 1:3 Psa 23:4 Psa 23:5
All of these examples Dave are GOD using RA to turn His RA-children back to HIM, and become sinless. Now can you supply me with a RA verse God uses on the sinless people, or a perfect earth?
You claim the darkness on earth was their naturally.... I beg to differ.... the darkness was there on earth because the earth was already in a state of missing and sins from sinning angels. The perfect creation for Adam over this earth, was perfect, but was done so Adam, a sinless human in a sinless creation could witness against these sinning angels on earth, long before Creation Week started.
D"So confused – did animals eat meat before Adam or not – please make up your mind! R" No Dave, all the animals were herbivores. Vegetarian sharks and vegetarian lions !!
D"Again – this is your myth - where is your scripture R" 1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
Also Isa 64:4
God can do anything He wants, including making a perfect world without heat loss, entropy and friction in it.
D"Why was the tree of Life withheld R" Because they sinned....
D" Bacteria compete rigorously for food – competing to starve the other bacteria out – without this competition taking place in your stomatch or on your skin – the ra bacteria would eat you to death R" Yes is a fallen world, yes. But I speak of an unfallen world, where free living bacteria have plenty to eat.
You assume because a gene is switched on the expression was there from eternity... That is an assumption.
The genes can be switched on or off as desired.
Good food everywhere, the 'compete rigorously for food ' idea is switched off, and all is happy free living.
In heaven the need to procreate is switched off, Jesus says to humans saved .
D"So – you deny the Intelligent Design is by God - you attribute the intelligent design to your creator satan R" I do not have a creator satan, why do you continue to mock....
Satan is merely a spoiler, a destroyer. , a mischief maker, has not God created ra into beauty such as rain, and snow and even volcanoes have a good purpose despite their destruction. D"ANSWER the question – will God’s new heaven and earth contain the choshek of Gen 1:2? R" Absolutely NOT. Not possible to make umbra shadows, all we will make is a preumbra shadow. The light is too bright and truly goes eveywhere, around solid objects.
D"I am not afraid to take a stand – NO there is no choshek in the New Heaven and Earth Because – it was all cast into the Lake of Fire – the Second death R"Wow Dave, so if the second creation has no choshek, the first creation had no choshek.
So why was there choshek on the earth, why wasn't the earth created along with Creation.
Instead it was visited and than a creation over it took place. Obviously choshek is a simile of darkness from creatures sinning already.
D"DUH – answered so many times – it cannor be more clear R" You are assuming because choshek was on the earth, the earth was temporary and with entropy? Not so.
Mankind was a witness against the choshek and the sinning angels there. If the humans had not sinned, after a time, God would have banished the sinning angels and the choshek into non-existence. If God creates RA and forms peace, than surely God can remove RA, as easily as allowing RA to exist. I agree remove RA and the earth would have been eternal. Same as saying remove sin and the earth is eternal. What I find interesting it GOD allowed RA and darkness and sinning angels to exist along side a sinless Creation with sinless creatures and sinless animals and sinless plants for a very long time, until the prince of this Creation, Adam sinned. Had Adam not sinned, the creation would have remain sinless and eternal despite this so called ra found there. God is not bound to RA or the idea of thing wearing out. Dave and Nicole as not seeing SIN as the reason behind the RA in the first place.
D"You are making the claim that God cannot create life R" You made the claim God can create eternal spirit as living, but end that living in the Lake of Fire if they fail to live up to God's standards, than the eternal spirits are not living are they, " independent and eternal" ? NO
Nothing exists without God, so nothing is living unless it is partnered to God so it remains living. Nothing is independent of God. Only God is immortal.
D"Where does scripture call bacteria or cows as living beings? R" Scripture does term the cow with a living soul, the same as humans have.
D"Most American Mothers have an expression for this I brought you into this would and I can take you out! R" So you are merely a creation than, not a creator. God cannot create Creators.... only creation, with living partnered to God, who alone is living. The simile of the American Mothers is correct, the child is a creation, not a creator. The child grows up to be a sort of creator, doing pro-creation, but this is not as a divine creator does.
D"Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Why do you , Ellen White, and the SDA deny scripture – deny the promise of eternal life R" You fail to read Scripture Dave
Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever "amanuah" in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
To achieve this eternal living we have to be amanuah Jesus for eternity. Meaning supporting Jesus, and his words using faith. D"Gen 1:27 God created humankind in His image, in the image of God He created him, Why do you , Ellen White, and the SDA deny scripture – deny the promise of eternal life R" This eternal life is not created like the first birth, it is founded in the womb of the HS using the powers of the the Father and the Son using a daily creative process that is founded upon faith (amanuah).
Ps 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. 11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. 12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
This process is similar to the first birth but also very different.
D"YES – biology is temporary – it is terminal – all physical creation will pass away – corruptible R" WHy do you assume biology is bad, when angels eat food in heaven. What is bad about biology? It is simply divine DNA code sitting upon God's matter.
So is your spirit thing made of matter? If you answer no, than what is it? Something like God? Unknown?
Can God create a part of Himself using stuff that is like Himself, not matter? Scripture please?
If you answer yes, the spirit is of matter, why is the divine CODE DNA bad? It's not. Just God's holy words.
So you cannot say biology is bad.... God can restore the CODE and all the matter will run perfectly.
D"NO – only one meaning = death R" Than natural dying of leaves decomposing to end up as coal, is death "muwth" is it not?
Bingo you have leaves dying before Adam sinned?
D"How many diffinitions for the word death do you have - I only have one R" so do I? Than how can you introduce death before Adam sinned in the Creation Week?
D"So – you teach that the Holy Spirit is not real – how very sad for you R" Wind has no shape Dave, it is a medium. Media (air) has a shape. What don't you understand?
Sure the Shadday has a shape, similar to the Father we are told.
But the HS which is a wind like function, is a medium, without personal shape. When you watch a propellor rotate, does the wind have a shape? Hmm? like a swirls of circles? Yes but not personal shape. Only when the function stops do you see a shape (propellor). So it is with the Shadday functioning as the HS.
D"So – you teach that choshek – satan – the beast and the false prophets are all a part of the New Heaven and Earth One needs to ask why you teach this R" You teach darkness was here to make man choose, with archons testing man to choose. Than the darkness and the archons are removed after man has made his choice, the second creation. It's got nothing to do with choice. Choosing to disobey God is a sin. Earth was found with sinners already on earth, so God fashioned a sinless creation with sinless humans to witness against the sin on earth. The sin is removed in the second creation. The sin was found on the earth because angels sinned long before man existed.
D"How can you agree – man is not a free willing independent individual – man is just an animal empower by the Holy Spirit Please pick one theology and stick with it R" duh can't you read my words?
Man has nashamah partnered to ruwach so man can be living.
The nashamah is independent and free and chooses things of God, so is the you in you.
Ro 8:16 The Spirit (ruwach) itself beareth witness with our spirit (nashamah), that we are the children of God:
Both hebrew words exist in the breath of life during our creation.
Child sits on Daddies knee driving the steering wheel of the car. Does not the child have freedom to steer? Yes, but only within boundaries of safety. Daddies big hand takes over when things get off track lots...LOL
D"Gen 2:1-4 R" brevity Dave.
Ge 2:1 ¶ Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
"host" meaning the host of creation was finished, not necessarily all created creatures from all the other worlds, only our world, earth.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Earth host was finished in 6 days and than God rested Shabbath on the 7th day.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
4 ¶ These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Strange notion of time, generations of families in the day they are created?
Did Eve and Adam carry all future children in their bodies ? Yes Does the HS empower the living of those future seed in their bodies? Yes SO a thousand years of time is a simile of a day of time, in God's reckoning.
Sorry unless you make discussion, I do not see eternal sparks formed from these verses?
Future generations are formed from random mixing of the genes already in Adam and Eve, biology allows mixing, so many individuals form. The HS imparts living to that baby as each seed comes alive as a zygote.
D"COME ON ROBERT – Gen 2:7 happened on Day 7 R" What? Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
What?
Ge 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
SO this mist also happened on day 7? I don't think so.
Gen 2 is a chapter of details about day 6....
Ge 2:21 ¶ And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam,
Happened on late day 6
D"A parasite in your eye is just eating – living – and reproducing young – ‘go forth be fruitful and multiply’ Why do you say it is evil for animal to obey God’s commandment? R" David Attenborough would vehemently disagree with you...why he hated God
D"Correct – Gen 2:7 is Day 7 – no new creation Animal man was created on Day 6 Spiritual man was created on Day 1 R" O boy, Dave is writing his brevity confusion again. Sorry Dave I do not fathom a single notion...
RP"Otherwise you are claiming God can creates other gods like Himself. D" Sorry your God is so limited – no better than an angel or man - My God and the God of the Jews is Absolute R" I can't discuss intelligently with you can I Dave?
Otherwise you are claiming God can creates other gods like Himself.
SO you claim GOD can create gods like Himself....?
D"Again - you have spent the entire post picking at my views When are you going to defend your Ellen White as a prophet of the Lord R" Well than post something Ellen White said wrong Dave? I refuted your false ideas
Coal comes from wood from a great flood, not from day 3 ended up as decomposed plant material. Eve was separated from Adam, the serpent spoke to her and than she went to Adam.
If you have a specific problem with her messages from God, write them clearly, with your discussion, NOT the brief brevity Dave normally is.
D"Have you just given up = is your only evidence that she is correct R" I give you a positive challenge of her witness of God
How many religions define faith correctly and what English word faith is ? I have looked over the Internet, found not a single religion discusses amanuah correctly.... not even the Jews understand... though the LXX did get it write just once? a coincidence? Take my challenge? Where is there a religion that defines amanuah correctly?
Ex 17:12 But Moses' hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun.
Here is the verse. Is there a translation apart from the LXX on this one occasion that translates amanuah correctly into a English word? Amanuah does not mean faith, by the way.
Only the writing of Ellen White get anamuah correct, but she only discusses this once. The rest of the time she is told to write "faith" and hide its true meaning.
Have a look on the Internet and get back to me. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Mar 27, 2022 19:56:50 GMT -5
Have a read through the whole chapter 42 of Isaiah and see if you find natural ra (entropy) there? Isa 42:5 ¶ Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein and stretched them outMovement away from the source Distance from the source Movement away from God = Ra = Entropy"for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house". Three Hebrew words describe Gentiles as in prison, as prisoners in a prison house. We are also termed blind. YES – darkness / blindness = IGNORACE of the truth = IGNORACE of GodIsa 42:8 ...I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Here is a clue to the prison keeper of the prison house with his prisoners, who are blind because they have no light. YES – IGNORACE of the One True God – wasting time on a created thing of this WORLDPs 82:5 ...; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. This poetry has parallels, people in prison in the prison house in darkness, is a parallel to earth as a prison house in darkness with it's foundation out of course. YES – IGNORACE of the One True God – wasting time on a created thing of this WORLD-------------------------------- All of these examples Dave are GOD using RA to turn His RA-children back to HIM, DUH – D"Robert absolutely denies a ra can be tov R" Have a look at all the verses that use RA, and see if any verses have a trace of TOV in them Dave, to back your claim, that God normally uses RA as some natural entropy? D"Robert’s model is just wrong because he refuses to admit that ra is not always evil – it is just entropy R" Well if that is true, it should be easy for you to show me a verse with natural RA as mere entropy? All of these examples Dave are GOD using RA to turn His RA-children back to HIMDUH – you have a reading comprehension problem – or you will just say anything to be the opposer you so admireD"So confused – did animals eat meat before Adam or not – please make up your mind!R" No Dave, all the animals were herbivores. Vegetarian sharks and vegetarian lions !! D"According to Robert – there was nothing carnivorous before Adam sinned – because eating is a ra R" I love the way you misquote me....Who said eating is RA?Carnivorous = adjective (of an animal) feeding on other animals.So confused – did animals eat meat before Adam or not – please make up your mind! Please pick one theology and stick to it – show some conviction D"So – you deny the Intelligent Design is by God - you attribute the intelligent design to your creator satanR" I do not have a creator satan, why do you continue to mock.... Then who is responsible for the Intelligent Design of Psa 19:2 + Rom 1:19 According to you – it cannot indicate God – because all of God’s tov world is fallenSatan is merely a spoiler, a destroyer. , a mischief maker, has not God created ra into beauty such as rain, and snow and even volcanoes have a good purpose despite their destruction. D"Robert absolutely denies a ra can be tov R" Have a look at all the verses that use RA, and see if any verses have a trace of TOV in them Dave, to back your claim, that God normally uses RA as some natural entropy? D"Robert’s model is just wrong because he refuses to admit that ra is not always evil – it is just entropy R" Well if that is true, it should be easy for you to show me a verse with natural RA as mere entropy? How can you ra have a good purpose? – the very question you asked of meDouble speak – flip flop – do you mean what you say – or do you sat anything D"ANSWER the question – will God’s new heaven and earth contain the choshek of Gen 1:2? R" Absolutely NOT. Then it is NOT exactlty like Gen 1 – is it? D"You are making the claim that God cannot create life R" You made the claim God can create eternal spirit as living, but end that living in the Lake of Fire if they fail to live up to God's standards, than the eternal spirits are not living are they, " independent and eternal" ? NO True of the sinner who are cast into the Lake of Fire What of those who repent and are saved – are they denied eternal life in the SDA?
D"Where does scripture call bacteria or cows as living beings? R" Scripture does term the cow with a living soul, the same as humans have. Or what type of soul is it that is different than the animals What about your teaching that all is just empowered by the HS – that is the only spirit within anythingD"Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. Why do you , Ellen White, and the SDA deny scripture – deny the promise of eternal life R" You fail to read Scripture Dave To achieve this eternal living we have to be amanuah Jesus for eternity. Do you believe in eternal life or notDouble speak – flip flop – so confusingD"A parasite in your eye is just eating – living – and reproducing young – ‘go forth be fruitful and multiply’ Why do you say it is evil for animal to obey God’s commandment? R" David Attenborough would vehemently disagree with you...why he hated GodIs this the same reason you hate My God – my Creator – in favor of a weak on that allows your satan to be responsible for all your excusesD"Again - you have spent the entire post picking at my views When are you going to defend your Ellen White as a prophet of the Lord R" Well than post something Ellen White said wrong Dave? I refuted your false ideasHow are her messages from God flawed?Coal after the flood Coal and oil getting together in the earth burring to cause earthquakes and volcanoes God made the plan of salvation after the fall of man Satan tempted Adam Eve did not pick the fruit – satan picked it and forced it upon her Jesus Christ is not God Satan has the power to change God’s plan against God’s Will Satan killed God on the cross There is no spirit – and no spiritual – biology and WORLD is the only reality And there are two gods locked in an eternal controversy Satan tempted Adam - answer at least this one(and that is only question #8 of 55 - so far so unimpressed) Question: did the serpent directly tempt Adam to eat? Not directly perhaps.... But Dave if you really wanted to press a Mrs White error you would hound me with her quotes and keep hounding me with her messages until the error shows up, but you do not do this.... You are vague, brevity and well it's confusing... Ge 3:17 ¶ And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, It seems Eve convinced Adam to sin, because she sinned, and the serpent convinced Eve to sin. Question: did the serpent directly tempt Adam to eat? Not directly perhaps.... D"Have you just given up = is your only evidence that she is correctR" I give you a positive challenge of her witness of GodIf Ellen White is a liar – then everything she says is a lieRobert’s rule - for other peopleOne false statement and all of her writing must be garbageRobert’s rule - for other peopleProve to me that Ellen White is approved of by RomeRobert’s rule - for other people
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2022 16:52:27 GMT -5
D "How can you ra have a good purpose? – the very question you asked of meR" Snow is evidence of RA, but it is beautiful a reminder how God looks after us despite missing His powers of TOV. Rain and thunder and lightning also RA, a reminder how God loves us while we are yet sinning. Where we differ Dave is you think RA is a natural thing , a part of God's natural Creation. You think when GOD creates something, some RA naturally comes along for the ride. This is a false idea. RA is the consequence of SIN, a by product of missing the powers of GOD, but when we are missing the powers of GOD, God is still controlling the situation and still ordering the chaos so it is still lovely, despite its ugly side. Why does GOD do this kind of control over missing His perfection? Because God is kind and loving. He loves the sinning wicked even while they are sinning, but hates their sins. God uses the RA to turn them around so they choose to love Him. Many sadly refuse. You showed me examples of RA having a good purpose, like the Jewish treatment by Hitler for example. Tirals and tribulation makes fruit of higher quality, for some reason. But my point of contention with you, is RA is never naturally occurring. God can engineer any universe He wants including a paradise without any RA in it, including biological bodies for the saints saved there. D" Then it is NOT exactlty like Gen 1 – is it?R" Correct Because God was dealing with a SIN problem BEFORE the Creation of man and the Creation of a world for man. You neglect that idea. You say earth and angels were created at the same time as man and Creation were created. Hence you squeeze this war in heaven during the Creation of Man, hence the sinning of these angels is something during the creation of man, helping man to have free will to choose, it totally bogus and wrong. Suddenly you make your Almighty GOD into a little god with one little universe and only one creature with free will, the human kind, no other creatures have free will except the human kind. How pathetic and limiting your view of god is, one universe and one creature with free will to love God back. My view is GOD is ALMIGHTY and created TRILLIONS of universes and TRILLIONS of creatures with FREE WILL to love GOD fully and completely, and not a single creature ever chose to sin and miss out on GOD loving them. Only the closest angel who also have free will, decided over a long time of billions of years to rebel and think and choose to NOT love GOD anymore. This angel was the highest commanding angel, who was closest to GOD. And so the churub angel sinned. Now God had a sin problem, and banished the angels that sinned to earth. We would expect SIN to be a place of darkness, where nothing happens, not a single creature except the sinning creatures walk around, and all trace of TOV is removed. This is the natural consequence of SIN. The final consequence of SIN is to remove GOD's breath of life in them, but GOD wanted SIN to never rise a second time. So GOD decided to rise a creation over this formless and dark world with a new creation and with sinless creatures in it, to replace the angels that left and were no longer wanting to return to GOD. And so the war in heaven continued as a war on earth. What a little god you serve, if you look at Genesis, the earth was not created, but already there in darkness and void of purpose. That implies the earth was created perfectly once long before, and became dark and void. Do you not see this in the verse? Ge 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. Earth already here, not created, so a creation before this creation, obviously created earth. This verse implies at least two creations, because earth was not created during this creation for Adam. D" What of those who repent and are saved – are they denied eternal life in the SDA?R" You do not get a chance to repent after you die, NOW is the day of reason Scripture says, NOW is the day of salvation, not another chance after you die. Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, Isa 49:8 Thus saith the LORD, ..in a day of salvation have I helped thee: D" Do you believe in eternal life or not Double speak – flip flop – so confusingR" I suggest you study the Hebrew word amanuah / faith eternal life is not a gift, it is a promise, a consequence of amanuah. Jesus Christ as salvation is a gift.... BUT you have to be doing in Jesus for eternity. It's not a burden or a work, but a joy. Notice what Jews were doing wrong; Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth (amanuah).They were doing pious works of the torah in their human strength. This means nothing to God. You have to be doing amanuah it says. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that amanuah. What is amanuah? Ho 14:1 ¶ O Israel, return unto the LORD thy God; for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity. 2 Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips. In these steps of faith, a process, amanuah is the free will to return Jesus words to Him in prayer, so Jesus power flows through us, rendering a sacrifice of praise. Heb 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name. God's words come with promised power, so taking with you His WORDS, is the way we do amanuah. We support GOD by speaking His words. Than GOD flows through us, as those WORDS promise. Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. James warns us the trivial speaking of His words, or doubt, or presumption, or pride, God hears your intent, and understands your speaking. We have to be humble and meek and fasting to receive His power flow, there are conditions to this process. D" Is this the same reason you hate My God – my Creator – in favor of a weak on that allows your satan to be responsible for all your excusesR" Your God created only man with free will, in one universe only. Angels have no free will according to you, yet some chose to sin? Does this make sense? Gen 1:2 Earth was not created, so this implies Earth came from an earlier creation, something you ignore in your view. You make GOD weak, unable to creature all creatures with free will, including angels. You even limit the universe to ours only. You have angels squeezed into our creation. The word satan as you describe is your invention. Not my view. I term in English this Hebrew word as the OPPOSER. So obviously this creature sinned against God and therefore opposes GOD, and GOD opposes the sinning creature. You ignore this idea, yet it's found in Scripture. D" If Ellen White is a liar – then everything she says is a lie Robert’s rule - for other peopleR" correct, than I suggest you study her messages than, not the person, but here messages. Compare EGW messages to the torah. DO they take away from torah or add clarity to the torah? Begin with Desire of Ages, read the book right through. Than read Steps to Christ. DO your study and study her messages carefully and prayerfully. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Mar 29, 2022 19:21:36 GMT -5
Where we differ Dave is you think RA is a natural thing , a part of God's natural Creation.Correct – ra = entropy inherent to / a by-product of physical creationThis world will all pass away – it is temporary – fleeting – an illusion – it will wind down – slow down – and end = Entropy You are a satan worshiper and everything is evil – it must be evilDoes Dave think God creates evil? NO – Dave teaches God created the physicality and entropy is an inherent by-productYou think when GOD creates something, some RA naturally comes along for the ride. This is a false idea.SCRIPTURE MAKES IT PERFECTLY CLEAR - This world will all pass away – it is temporary – fleeting – an illusion – it will wind down – slow down – and end = Entropy ---------------- RA is the consequence of SIN, a by product of missing the powers of GOD, Sin is the consequence of ra (the wrong choice) - DUHYou showed me examples of RA having a good purpose, like the Jewish treatment by Hitler for example. Tirals and tribulation makes fruit of higher quality, for some reason. But my point of contention with you, is RA is never naturally occurring. God created it – DUH – why do you deny scriptureIsa 45:7 I form light and create darkness. I make shalom and create calamity. I, Adonai, do all these things. Joh 1:3 All things were made through Him, and apart from Him nothing was made that has come into being. Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created—in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen, whether thrones or angelic powers or rulers or authorities. All was created through Him and for Him. Rev 4:11 “Worthy are You, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, For You created all things, and because of Your will they existed and were created!” But my point of contention with you, is RA is never naturally occurring.All was created through Him and for Him. – why do you deny scripture abd teach scripture is error to others – Christian? ----------------------------- God can engineer any universe He wants including a paradise without any RA in it, Correct – Christians usually accept the promised future as - a paradise without any RA in it,------------------------ D"Then it is NOT exactlty like Gen 1 – is it? R" Correct Because God was dealing with a SIN problem BEFORE the Creation of man and the Creation of a world for man. You neglect that idea. Will God have to deal with the sin problem again?You say earth and angels were created at the same time as man and Creation were created.
Hence you squeeze this war in heaven during the Creation of Man, Correct – on Day 1 – God created the heavens - ethereal God created man on Day 1 because we are and always have been a full part of the host of heaven Then God created corporeal earth (physicality / matter) – and with matter comes Entropy Matter came first Also the first sentient made with some matter- and with that matter came (yester ra) BOOM – NOT ALLOWED in heaven – cast into the corporeal earth – all physical creation (planet earth did not come around until Day 3) Gen 1:2 choshek = Rev 12:7 war – this is the moment that the First Archon was created Cast to earth and they (archon) have been here ever since – this is their world – their kingdom ----------------------------- Suddenly you make your Almighty GOD into a little god with one little universe You know better – 10D of reality – a multiverse – our 3D corner is only 1/10 of itYou know better - but it does not stop you from saying itand only one creature with free will, the human kind, no other creatures have free will except the human kind. Correct – The Rabbis will say – man is the only creature that can chooseHow pathetic and limiting your view of god is, one universe and one creature with free will to love God back.All creation loves God back – only man has the choice not to – DUH!------------------ My view is GOD is ALMIGHTY and created TRILLIONS of universes Where is your supporting evidence? – Ellen White said so is not an acceptable answer Assumptions are like #^%)^$# and TRILLIONS of creatures with FREE WILL The choice in diet of hair style is not the Free Will Choice I am presenting The choice to be a plumber or a doctor is not the Free Will Choice I am presenting A cow can choose to eat hay or corn is not the Free Will Choice I am presenting A chicken can cross the road is not the Free Will Choice I am presenting Man has the Free Will Choice to choose God or NOT-------------------- Only the closest angel who also have free will, decided over a long time of billions of years to rebel and think and choose to NOT love GOD anymore.You keep presenting you satan theology – yet fail to validate yourselfNot once have you proven your satan god opposes My God All you have done over and over is present evidence of your satan opposing man In frustration you stopped – changed the topic and declared You have Ezk 28:14 and Rev 12:7 – two verses taken out of context that forms your doctrine For further proof – you offer Ellen White teaches it to be true For further proof – the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church For further proof – you offer Ellen White word for word parrot repeat of Catholic Catechism of the Fallen Angeles This is your scriptural proof – the precepts of men? ---------------- Ge 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. Earth already here, not created, so a creation before this creation, obviously created earth. This verse implies at least two creations, because earth was not created during this creation for Adam.Just more made up elementary school assumptionEarth of Gen 1:1 = all physical creation everywhere – the cosmos Earth of Gen 1:9 = our planet earth Your word game is rejected----------------- R If God created eternal living spirits, how come God can remove this during the second death? D Most American Mothers have an expression for this I brought you into this would and I can take you out! R Than the eternal living is not eternal is it? Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. D Why do you , Ellen White, and the SDA deny scripture – deny the promise of eternal life R Nor was it created? Gen 1:27 God created humankind in His image, in the image of God He created him, D Why do you , Ellen White, and the SDA deny scripture – deny the promise of eternal life Than the eternal living is not eternal is it?This is among the most anti-Judeo-Christian thing you have said to dateNor was it created?Gen 1:27 God created humankind in His image, More anti-Judeo-Christian teaching from you and Ellen WhiteD"What of those who repent and are saved – are they denied eternal life in the SDA?R" You do not get a chance to repent after you die, I asked you A – so you erupt with BAnswer the question – is there eternal life for those who are saved – yes or no Answer the question – is there eternal life for the sinner – yes or no Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, Stop trying to weasel your way out of answering direct questions D"Do you believe in eternal life or not Double speak – flip flop – so confusing R" I suggest you study the Hebrew word amanuah / faithDouble speak – flip flop – so confusing – so your answer is not a resounding YESYou doubt your salvation – why is that – too much satan worship or what?eternal life is not a gift, it is a promise, a consequence of amanuah.If it is given to you at the end – it is not eternal because it did not exist in the past Eternal life is eternal – it is up to man to throw it awayJesus Christ as salvation is a gift.... BUT you have to be doing in Jesus for eternity. It's not a burden or a work, but a joy. Notice what Jews were doing wrong;
Ro 10:-4 = They were doing pious works of the torah in their human strength. This means nothing to God. Funny – and yet you teach you must do things daily to maintain your salvationIn these steps of faith, a process, amanuah is the free will to return Jesus words to Him in prayer, so Jesus power flows through us, rendering a sacrifice of praise.Funny – and yet you teach you must do things daily to maintain your salvation-------------------- R" Your God created only man with free will, in one universe only. Angels have no free will according to you, yet some chose to sin? Does this make sense? You already know my answer - you just keep repeating your questions so you do have to answer you own Angels = messengers Messengers from God – created by God = Judeo Christian Angels – created for a purpose Messengers of the First Archon = archon- also created by God (left hand) – created for a purpose Man = created by God for a purpose Cows – created by God for a purpose The messengers referred to by Jude and 2 peter = the Book of Enoch – but you have to deny that as well The mountain of things you must deny is staggering – I lost count long ago ------------------- Gen 1:2 Earth was not created, so this implies Earth came from an earlier creation, something you ignore in your view. Your ability to mock scripture denies your dedication to God’s word - Christian----------------------------- D"If Ellen White is a liar – then everything she says is a lie Robert’s rule - for other people R" correct, than I suggest you study her messages Compare EGW messages to the torah. DO they take away from torah or add clarity to the torah? She has taught to deny the spirit She has taught you that your satan is a god in heaven She has taught you that your satan has the power to change all God’s Plan against God’s Will She has taught you that your satan and man killed God She has taught you to deny that Jesus Christ was God incarnate She states openly that your satan deceived Adam – Paul says otherwise MY opinion – her message is all garbage – Robert has taught me – one error and it is all garbage
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