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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2021 14:16:33 GMT -5
D"Answer - Man comes into this world to: Jer 1:5 R" This is speaking God's knows all things, not that man's spirit existed from eternity. Not pre-destiny as you claim, but that our beginning and our thinking is all known by God before we are thinking and living it.
D"Rabbi Friedman - Journey of the Soul and the Afterlife Your biggest comment taken away from that video was - LIFE LIVES And - You totally rejected everything he said because he is a Jew - and Jews don't know their own language or theology R" Really that is you only defense? life lives?
The only living ones I know of is GOD, apart from GOD nothing lives. We only live because God empowers us to live. Are you claiming humans are as powerful as GOD? 1Co 15:53 ..and this mortal must put on immortality.
Man is not immortal to begin with
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; Only God is immortal
Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
The EL-RUWACH does living in us, the SHADDAY gives us ongoing living "chayah".
We do not have this living of ourselves.
Ps 119:25 ¶ DALETH. My soul cleaveth unto the dust: quicken thou me according to thy word.
Only the chayah from GOD allows us living, we cannot live unless God is with us
Ro 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. We only live when the HS quickens our mortal bodies with living "chayah".
Where is your proof the spirit inside man is man's own spirit that talks outside the body after the soul has died?
Rabbi Friedman provided not a single torah to back up his claim, only talks traditions and precepts of men. SHalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 14, 2021 15:19:02 GMT -5
D"Answer - Man comes into this world to: Jer 1:5 R" This is speaking God's knows all things, not that man's spirit existed from eternity. God knew everything – except the coming treason of his most trusted cherub Very sound docrtine
Not pre-destiny as you claim, but that our beginning and our thinking is all known by God before we are thinking and living it. Denying scripture is your only defense Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
D"Rabbi Friedman - Journey of the Soul and the Afterlife Your biggest comment taken away from that video was - LIFE LIVES And - You totally rejected everything he said because he is a Jew - and Jews don't know their own language or theology
1Co 15:53 ..and this mortal must put on immortality. Man is not immortal to begin with Adam and Eve were created immortal – never with a biological death The spirit of man is immortal because it is not biology and will never suffer a mortal death
Rabbi Friedman provided not a single torah to back up his claim, only talks traditions and precepts of men. If you take a college calculus class – the teach will not stop and teach you to add and subtract When a mainstream Christin tried to witness the Lord to another – they do not have to detail the Trinity Why should a Rabbi stop and read scripture for you?
Your biggest comment taken away from that video was - LIFE LIVES And - You totally rejected everything he said because he is a Jew - and Jews don't know their own language or theology
Your inability to understand is completely obvious to everyone – and why they won’t engage your discussions My question is – it is a learning disorder – have you been so indoctrinated by a cult / brainwashed or are you deliberately anti-Christian – scripture says there will many like you in the end-of-days
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2021 14:43:55 GMT -5
D" God knew everything – except the coming treason of his most trusted cherub Very sound docrtine R" God knows when SIN comes Dave, the Shadday expressed the MEDIUM, hundreds of years before the sinning cherub fully sinned, so the cherub would not immediately cease to exist. The medium prevents the dazzling light of GOD not destroy the sinning cherub. It would have taken many years for the sinning relationship to become fully blown into a transgression, such is God's love and His reaction to the SIN problem. Do you understand how a Medium functions, so the sinner can sin, and not immediately cease to exist under the presence of God?
RP" Not pre-destiny as you claim, but that our beginning and our thinking is all known by God before we are thinking and living it. D" Denying scripture is your only defense R" OK explain to me how GOD who knows your thinking before you are born to think, the same as you being with a spirit who is thinking? You are making GOD not smart at all, you say you are with God from eternity, so God is not smart at all, but know you because you have been with God from eternity? Explain your view Dave.
Yes write some sentences, lots of them, because your little god spark you claim you have inside you makes no sense.
D"Adam and Eve were created immortal – never with a biological death The spirit of man is immortal because it is not biology and will never suffer a mortal death R" What a load of bunk. Explain all this to me Dave, and write lots of sentences, with verses too. If the spirit of man is immortal why can God make it die at the second death for some spirits? If spirit of man is immortal talks outside the body, why does the spirit require a body? Explain these views Dave. I woudl love to see you try, using Scripture too.
D" If you take a college calculus class – the teach will not stop and teach you to add and subtract R" OK so these views are simple and already fully known? OK show me the Bible texts Dave? Show me how cherubs are not biology.
God is light, that is energy as a form we science try to fathom, but energy is related to matter. So really perhaps God is related to matter, I don't know. Explain your "spirit" thing. Yes you say you don't know. A mystery. Cop out.
Many say GOD is SPIRIT, is a terrible misquote of Scripture. It says elohiym ruwach, and makes nothing of the thing. What is MEDIUM, a function in which GOD moves, not what God is.
So bring it on, what is this "spirit" thing you speak of.... The word ruwach, is spirit, means a medium, and mediums are not things, they are a process of functions between media. And media are things. You are so way off track...
D"And - You totally rejected everything he said because he is a Jew - and Jews don't know their own language or theology R" I reject the Rabbi because he speaks with torah words from GOD. Where is his authority? Not in Scripture.
Show me the simple scripture? Does it exist? no
D"Your inability to understand is completely obvious to everyone – and why they won’t engage your discussions R" If that was true, than present you Scripture Dave.
No such thing as a "spirit" as a thing. A "spirit" is a medium, a function, not a "thing". For example "wind" is a function of the movement of energy between the media of hot air and cold air.
Without the media, the medium cannot exist.
Light seems to be an exception, and travels in space in both waves and packets we call particles, without the need of media. Einstein said light is a mystery, and like God, I agree with him.
One thing about biology , God can do anything He likes to biology creatures. Philip was moved in hyerspace after the baptism of the enuch.
Jesus walked right through walls
Angels eat food
Some biological creatures seem to fade in and out like a ghost.
Mrs White in vision, never blinked and never breathed, yet spoke words in vision.
Moses lived on the mountain without drinking water or food for 40 days and nights. Some of our human biological functions are switched off, ie pineal gland. This third eye may mean we have lost the ability to see other functions of the biology.
DO not claim to know all things about the functions of the biology, especially biology with cherubims.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 15, 2021 15:53:03 GMT -5
D" God knew everything – except the coming treason of his most trusted cherub Very sound docrtineDid you god foreknow that your satan would change sides in heaven? – Yes or No If your god did know – then how is it satan’s idea? If your god did know – why does he allow it to happen If your god knew and allowed it – how is against God Will or God’s Plan RP" Not pre-destiny as you claim, but that our beginning and our thinking is all known by God before we are thinking and living it. D" Denying scripture is your only defense R" Explain your view Dave. Easy – man is spirit Yes write some sentences, lots of them, because your little god spark you claim you have inside you makes no sense. All Jews and all mainstream Christians – and even Muslims and Hindus - believe in the spirit of man You are the odd ball – the guy on the outside looking in – claiming that you do not understandD"Adam and Eve were created immortal – never with a biological death The spirit of man is immortal because it is not biology and will never suffer a mortal death R" What a load of bunk. Explain all this to me DaveMortal = biology Spirit = not biologyBuy a dictionaryWhen Jesus died a mortal death upon the cross – the immortal Christ returned to the heavens[/b][/font] If the spirit of man is immortal why can God make it die at the second death for some spirits?DUH ythe second death has nothing to do with biological mortality - it is the death of spiritIf spirit of man is immortal talks outside the body, why does the spirit require a body?So that we can Jer 1:5 So that man can fulfill his assignment / commission / role within creation Who do you live for?D" If you take a college calculus class – the teach will not stop and teach you to add and subtract R" Show me how cherubs are not biology. zondervanacademic.com/blog/biblical-facts-angels1. God created angels Angels haven’t always existed. According to Scripture, they’re part of the universe God created. In a passage that refers to angels (the “host” or “armies” of heaven), we read, “You are the Lord, you alone; you have made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host . . . and the host of heaven worships you” (Nehemiah 9:6). In the New Testament, Paul tells us that God created all things “visible and invisible,” and specifically includes the angelic world with the phrase “whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities” (Colossians 1:16).
While these Bible verses tell us that God created angels, the Bible also suggests that they don’t “exist” in the same way we do. The author of Hebrews suggests that all angels are “spirits” (Hebrews 1:13-14). When Jesus appears to the disciples, he asserts that “spirits” don’t have bodies like he does (Luke 24:39). In the Bible, angels can’t usually be seen by humans unless God reveals them (see Numbers 22:31, 2 Kings 6:17, Luke 2:13). However, from time to time angels took on a bodily form and appeared to various people in Scripture (Matthew 28:5; Hebrews 13:2). Many say GOD is SPIRIT, is a terrible misquote of Scripture. So disagree its crazy The only other option is God is biology - SORRY Robert - God is not a created thing of biology - He is the Creator of bilogyWhy is your goal always to make god small
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Post by Dillon on Dec 15, 2021 21:11:04 GMT -5
So bring it on, what is this "spirit" thing you speak of.... Show me the simple scripture? Does it exist? no I suppose you say the ruwach / HS returns and speaks for you? NO – you (your spirit – your real self) returns to God and speaks for yourselfyou have an immortal spirit in the body that can speak without it's body? Prove this idea?100 Bible Verses about Salvation Of The Soul - OpenBible.infohttps://www.openbible.info › topics › salvation_of_the_... Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, ... 87 Bible Verses about Salvation - DailyVerses.nethttps://dailyverses.net › salvation Bible Verses about Salvation - Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other… Truly my soul finds rest in God; my salvation comes from him…bibleone.net/SOS_01.htmSalvation of the Soul, Saving of the LifeBy Arlen L. Chitwood And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual . . . . (1 Corinthians 3:1a) The Greek word translated “spirit” throughout the New Testament is pneuma. This word is used in the New Testament referring to the Holy Spirit, man’s spirit, angels (both fallen and un-fallen), a state of mind or disposition, wind, and breath. Examples in Scripture of the last four are Luke 8:55; John 3:8; 1 Corinthians 4:21; 2 Timothy 1:7; Hebrews 1:7; 1 Peter 3:19. Man’s spirit is the seat of the higher divine life pertaining to his God-conscious existence. The Greek word translated “spiritual” in 1 Corinthians 3:1a is pneumatikos, a form of the word pneuma. The spiritual man is one who is controlled by the Spirit of God acting through his own spirit (through a spirit made alive by the birth from above). The spiritual man, unlike the soulical man, controls his emotions, feelings, and desires pertaining to his still-present, man-conscious existence. He brings his unredeemed body under subjection and exerts control over the soulical man. This, of course, is not performed within his own power, but within the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit. This is an experience open to redeemed man alone, to an individual who has been made alive spiritually. Our spirit is awakened and educated to the fact This is an experience open to redeemed man alone, to an individual who has been made alive spiritually.
Dave, I thought your answer was a good one
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2021 14:33:58 GMT -5
D"Did you god foreknow that your satan would change sides in heaven? – Yes or No R" yes
D" If your god did know – then how is it satan’s idea? R" God respect your free will to choose
D" If your god did know – why does he allow it to happen R" God respect your free will to choose - sin is a choice to be walking away from God
D" If your god knew and allowed it – how is against God Will or God’s Plan R" possibly not against His will, after all God know all things, and the plan of man's creation to replace the lost angels that sinned was planned before God created His angels, sinless in the beginning, all with free will.
D"Easy – man is spirit R" no such thing as "spirit" as an entity Dave, the term is a function, not a being.
It means the function of a medium, not a personal entity or being. Show me your proof.
D" All Jews and all mainstream Christians – and even Muslims and Hindus - believe in the spirit of man You are the odd ball – the guy on the outside looking in – claiming that you do not understand R" Broad is the way of deception and many are misled Dave. D"Mortal = biology Spirit = not biology Buy a dictionary R" My dictionary is the hebrew torah, the term "spirit as a body" is a myth.
The word is used to refer to the Shadday, who is a body, who is divine, who is elohiym, but functions as a medium, written as ruwach, meaning wind, which is a function. Never is the term referred to a body, or a being, it is always referred to the function of the creature.
D"DUH ythe second death has nothing to do with biological mortality - it is the death of spirit R" so the first death is for biology and the second death is for the immortal spirit? I see. Why does Scripture term the muwth (same term) one and two, first death and second death?
Why not simply means the first death is the first time you die and the second death is the second and last time you die, never to rise again.
My view makes much more sense.
D"If spirit of man is immortal talks outside the body, why does the spirit require a body? So that we can Jer 1:5 R" OK, so the spirit who can talk requires a body so the spirit can talk some more? You have not answered my question, if the spirit can walk and talk outside a body, than the spirit can do Jer 1:5 without a body.
So your answer is not an answer.
D"The author of Hebrews suggests that all angels are “spirits” (Hebrews 1:13-14). R" Where is your discussion Dave? So serious to do not prove anything to me, only talk and copy and paste. Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation? (KJV)
OK what is the Hebrew behind this translation?
ministering <leitourgikos> spirits <pneuma>,
Ruwach I see means medium, the process of carrying somebody elses power to somebody else.
SO I see the cherub as a function, using the medium of the HS, to carry messages and the love of GOD to others on earth, ie humans. This does not prove the word "ruwach" is nothing more than meaning a medium. A medium is not some spirit, though pagan notions of mediums is a ghost like apparition that speaks for somebody else, so yes the myth is real and exists, but it a false idea. D"When Jesus appears to the disciples, he asserts that “spirits” don’t have bodies like he does (Luke 24:39). Lu 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. A medium has no flesh and bones, is correct, as a medium is like wind, is a function, a way of channelling power from one source to another. Jesus is overcoming a pagan misconception of the ghost traditions.
D"In the Bible, angels can’t usually be seen by humans unless God reveals them (see Numbers 22:31, 2 Kings 6:17, Luke 2:13). R" Why must such holy beings be seen via a MEDIUM? Same as Gen 17 when GOD appeared to Abram, the medium also went, ie the SHADDAY. Mediums make the powers of visitation less harmful to the sinful humans, so they can withstand the holy encounter. Medium make images that appear to fade in and out, as the focal length changes. Got nothing to do with ghost like forms or natural ghost like shapes.
D"SORRY Robert - God is not a created thing of biology - He is the Creator of bilogy R" I agree, God is not biology, and God is not spirit either, God is beyond anything you describe God as. I make GOD bigger than you appreciate.
Dillon" This, of course, is not performed within his own power, but within the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
R" You are simply quoting my view Dillon. Your spirit, your character, you love, is administrated by the HS, who dwells in you. You are correct my friend.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 16, 2021 16:00:39 GMT -5
D" If your god knew and allowed it – how is against God Will or God’s Plan R" possibly not against His will, So – now your satan’s opposition and free will choice was predestined all along So – you admit – it is all God’s Will – all God’s Plan Why do you teach otherwise?
D"Easy – man is spirit R" no such thing as "spirit" as an entity Dave, the term is a function, not a being. Buy a dictionay spirit = the nonphysical part of a person which is the seat of emotions and character; the soul. D" All Jews and all mainstream Christians – and even Muslims and Hindus - believe in the spirit of man You are the odd ball – the guy on the outside looking in – claiming that you do not understand
R" Broad is the way of deception and many are misled Dave. Yes – claiming you don’t understand
D"If spirit of man is immortal talks outside the body, why does the spirit require a body? So that we can Jer 1:5 R" OK, so the spirit who can talk requires a body so the spirit can talk some more? You have not answered my question You deny that man is created for a purpose You deny than we are made in the image of God You deny that God came to earth to witness and then returned to heaven
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2021 2:30:01 GMT -5
RP" no such thing as "spirit" as an entity Dave, the term is a function, not a being.
D" Buy a dictionary spirit = the nonphysical part of a person which is the seat of emotions and character; the soul.
R" SO Dave, you have a secular tradition to base your ideas on, not the common received text the true Hebrew torah the Waldensians used.
Prove to me the immortal spark, a piece of God inside of you, actually exists, called your spirit?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 18, 2021 8:09:59 GMT -5
Prove to me the immortal spark, a piece of God inside of you, actually exists, called your spirit?I do not have to prove anything Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. For 5000 years the Holy Spirit has taught others all about the spirit Why are you taught differently - do you listen to a different spirit?Pro 20:27 The spirit of man is the lamp of Adonai, searching all his inmost being. Ecc 3:21 Who knows that the spirit of the sons of man ascends upward and the animal’s spirit descends into the earth? Ecc 12:7 Then the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. Ecc 12:8 “Evanescent vapors,” says Kohelet. All is futility. Evanescent vapors – emptiness of emptiness all is emptiness1Jn 4:1 Loved ones, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see if they are from God. For many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1Jn 4:2 You know the Ruach Elohim by this—every spirit that acknowledges that Messiah Yeshua has come in human flesh is from God, 1Jn 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Yeshua is not from God. This is the spirit of the anti-messiah, which you have heard is coming and now is already in the world. Act 7:59 They went on stoning Stephen as he was calling out, “Lord Yeshua, receive my spirit!” 1Co 2:11 For who among men knows the things of a man, except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way, no one knows the things of God except the Ruach Elohim. Pro 18:14 One’s spirit sustains him through illness, but who can bear a crushed spirit? Pro 18:14 The spirit of a man will sustain his infirmity; but a wounded spirit who can bear? 1Th 5:19 Quench not the Spirit. 1Th 5:20 Despise not prophesyings. 1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Joh 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? Joh 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? Mat 12:31 “For this reason I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Ruach will not be forgiven. Mat 12:32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Ruach ha-Kodesh will not be forgiven, neither in this age nor in the one to come.” www.bibleref.com/Matthew/12/Matthew-12-32.htmlJesus has said that, unlike every other sin, blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven (Matthew 12:31). The immediate meaning of that refers to something only those who saw Jesus in person could do: to see a miracle from Christ and attribute it to Satan. In the most literal sense, that's a sin which no one today can commit. In a broader sense, to "blaspheme the Holy Spirit" for most people implies a continual rejection of the Holy Spirit's call. Those who call God a liar by rejecting His call have no hope of forgiveness (John 3:36). Robert - belief is a Free Will choice No one is forcing you to believe - all I can do is witness God's word
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2021 15:42:06 GMT -5
D"For 5000 years the Holy Spirit has taught others all about the spirit Why are you taught differently - do you listen to a different spirit?
Dave lists some verses: "
Pr 20:27 ¶ The spirit "nashamah" of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly. {candle: or, lamp}
R" Well , well, the first verse you list is a good one Dave. Congratulations, we are on the same page. Yes this verse is nice and speaks of the "nashamah" of man is indeed our "spirit" but is onluy active when the "soul" is in a relationship with the "rwauch of life" the flow of powers from God into the dust, hence we become living. The HS is our administrator of this breath of living in the human soul. Ec 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit "ruwach" of man that goeth upward, and the spirit "ruwach" of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
R" This verse refers to the MEDIUM of GOD, the administration of the HS that lives in all the nose breathing creatures, including humans. Ec 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
R" THis verse speaks of the MEDIUM/ HS of GOD, returns to GOD after the "soul" experiences it's separation of the mortal dust with the immortal MEDIUM/spirit of GOD.
D"Ecc 12:8 “Evanescent vapors,” says Kohelet. All is futility.
Evanescent vapors – emptiness of emptiness all is emptiness
R" Well, well well, Dave's only discussion of a verse trying to support his view.
Ec 12:8 ¶ Vanity <hebel> of vanities <hebel>, saith <'amar> the preacher <qoheleth>; all is vanity <hebel>.
Your translation is terrible. The Hebrew word "hebel" is written three wimes, to must carry the same meanings each time.
You say "Evanescent vapors emptiness"
KJV say "Vanity Vanity Vanity " at least the KJV is consistent
What does "hebel " mean?
Jeff Benner says Jeff sees the word in two forms the verb and the noun, hence empty and emptiness, are great translations into English.
Jeff says "Emptiness, Emptiness, all is Emptiness".
What does Rob say? There are 64 verses of context for the noun form, I think Jeff Benner does a great job. So does the KJV version. I think Dave you are looking to twist meanings in the Hebrew word that is not there.
1Jn 4:3 , 1Jn 4:2, 1Jn 4:1, all use Pnuemia, or ruwach or MEDIUM, the HS administrating the flow of powers from the Father into the human. I write my discussion, Dave doesn't write any discussions of his view supported by texts of Scripture.
Act 7:59 They went on stoning Stephen as he was calling out, “Lord Yeshua, receive my spirit!”
Ac 7:59 And <kai> they stoned <lithoboleo> Stephen <Stephanos>, calling upon <epikaleomai> God, and <kai> saying <lego>, Lord <kurios> Jesus <Iesous>, receive <dechomai> my <mou> spirit <pneuma>.
Again its a reference to pneuma, HS ruwach, the MEDIUM of GOD, not some personal spark of yours. A cross reference to OT, Ps 31:5 Into thine hand <yad> I commit <paqad> my spirit <ruwach>: thou hast redeemed <padah> me, O LORD <Y@hovah> God <'el> of truth <'emeth>.
Notice the person dies commits the MEDIUM administrator of His living into the hands of the Father, O Lord YHWH of living, and uses the word "emeth" a word related to AMENUAH, faith.
A word meaning to support another BEING. How strange, that during death, this word is used to strengthen my view, the person who dies uses the term supporting another personal being, who is this ? Our heavenly Father.
No where does this term MEDIUM/HS/Ruwach/Pneuma mean you own personal spark, in which when you die you do not support anybody, you are simply released from your earthly body to continue living, as your talking spirit form. Now you not only violate Scripture, but also Faith and the meaning of Faith.
Notice my discussions Dave. You do not write much discussion.
1Co 2:11 For who among men knows the things of a man, except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way, no one knows the things of God except the Ruach Elohim. 1Co 2:11 For <gar> what <tis> man <anthropos> knoweth <eido> the things <ho> of a man <anthropos>, save <ei me> the spirit <pneuma> of man <anthropos> which <ho> is in <en> him <autos>? even <kai> so <houto> the things <ho> of God <theos> knoweth <eido> no man <oudeis>, but <ei me> the Spirit <pneuma> of God <theos>.
Pr 20:27 ¶ The spirit <n@shamah> of man <'adam> is the candle <niyr> of the LORD <Y@hovah>, searching <chaphas> all the inward parts <cheder> of the belly <beten>.
This verse in the NT uses a cross reference to the Prov 20:27, notice to the reader, the OT verse uses "nashamah" with "ruwach".
I suspect the Greek translations reduced the meaning of the Hebrew, since Greek cannot render both of these words correctly?
the spirit <pneuma> of man <anthropos> could also have been the spirit <nashamah> of man <anthropos> So my discussion of the verse could have been "the spirit <nashamah> of man <anthropos>" and "the Spirit <pneuma> of God <theos>".
This makes sense, with all the uses of verses that even use both nashamah and ruwach together.
Ge 7:22 All in whose nostrils <'aph> was the breath <n@shamah> <ruwach> of life <chay>,
So sadly our English word "spirit" comes with three meanings from Scripture (1) wind meaning medium/ ruwach (breathing of God through a medium) (2) human wind meaning our breathing on our own /nashamah (3) character - used to refer to the character developed within man or within GOD - no one Hebrew word, but the arrangement of words , ie "spirit of man or the spirit of God".
Pro 18:14 ruwach 1Th 5:19 pneuma or ruwach So far Dave you have not listed any discussions that support a personal spark within you.
Than Dave lists a passage
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
R" How can the "spirit" be born again, if the "spirit" is already living in the man and is eternal?
Talk about poor verse selections from you, please explain this Dave?
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
R" DO you not understand Dave these verses negate your immortal living spirit idea? Jesus is saying the MEDIUM communication from GOD has to be re-born, re-newed, started all over again. Joh 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be
R" If this learned Jew thought he had some immortal living spirit already in him, why does this Jew say how can my spirit be born again a second time? He did not understand. and yes it is literal. Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
R" Dave might say this refers to our spirit becoming known to us. I say it refers to things in Scripture the average laymen doesn't know. For example the SDA does not know the born process in the HS, as a womb? SDA people do not consider the HS as having something like a womb. So they do not understand being born again, they say its a poetry allegory, not literal and not real.
D"Robert - belief is a Free Will choice No one is forcing you to believe - all I can do is witness God's word
R" Dave your discussions are not there, you did not witness anything. Showing people verses proves nothing.
You did not show me a single verse that proves or even shows a divine immortal spark called your spirit lives inside of you. Your first verse is your only proof, that the nashamah our own breathing, is made into a simile of the spirit of man, the way we develop our own character of love similar to God's character of love.
When ye must be born again? How can an immortal spirit be born again, if the spirit is already alive?
So your view makes no sense. Jesus is asking for our body with it's soul to be literally born again. Why? because it's fallen, comes with propensities of sin, DNA errors that causes us to die and become weak. So our bodies with it's soul, has to be re-born, re-newed and therefore re-empowered by GOD, so we have sinless DNA, no corrupt DNA and no fallen flesh like Adam had before Adam was created. However you say the flesh comes with RA from a by product of creation. I refute this idea. Otherwise GOD could never reborn humans ever as sinless, we would always have RA in us. And your reborning of the spirit is not working, as the spirit is already alive and hence does not need re-borning at all. Care to explain this dilemma?
So in my view, we have a reason for re-birth, re-newal and restoration, Our bodies have fallen, and our minds are weaken in our fallen natures, so we need complete restoration of the body to what it was, without sin and without RA. How is this done? The same way Creation of our bodies was done, via the creative powers of GOD in the "womb". Is there a verse for this idea? Yes
Ps 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Notice there is no additional spirit in the rebirth process, only a right spirit. The creative process is literal but gradual. Why gradual rather than not all over brand new? Otherwise the process would remove the old you, it's instead gradual. Is there a verse for this idea? Yes
Ex 23:29 I will not drive them out from before thee in one year; lest the land become desolate, and the beast of the field multiply against thee. 30 By little and little I will drive them out from before thee, until thou be increased, and inherit the land.
The weeds, or aven, or propensities that invade our land, our bodies, are removed daily and gradually/
Ps 71:20 Thou, which hast shewed me great and sore troubles, shalt quicken me again, and shalt bring me up again from the depths of the earth.
Gradually we are restored.
Ps 143:11 Quicken me, O LORD, for thy name's sake: for thy righteousness' sake bring my soul out of trouble.
Our troubles are removed daily, as the SEED of Jesus grows in us daily. Seeds take time, rebirth takes time. Its takes 9 months to develop a body and soul, and several years in the womb of GOD to develop a character of love that is similar to God's character of love.
Ro 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
THis verse is fantastic. The spirit of the Father that raised His Son Jesus from the dead dwells in us humans who are saved by Jesus, the Father's Son, shall also quicken our mortal bodies (quicken - a process inside the womb of the HS/medium that allows the Father's powers of salvation to flow into us) by the Father's spirit (the process of the MEDIUM in which the Father flows into humans, via the HS) that dwell inside of us humans.
Notice GOD dwells in us humans, once we are reborn unto salvation. This is completely different to Dave's view, which is difficult to fathom, since He does not explain it well, nor has discussed any verses about this idea of some immortal spark living inside humans. No need to have God dwell in us, if the spark is already alive and thus we are already filled with God. A different view on Scripture.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 18, 2021 17:19:11 GMT -5
"For 5000 years the Holy Spirit has taught others all about the spirit Why are you taught differently - do you listen to a different spirit?
D"Ecc 12:8 “Evanescent vapors,” says Kohelet. All is futility. D”Evanescent vapors – emptiness of emptiness all is emptiness
R" Well, well well, Dave's only discussion of a verse trying to support his view. Your translation is terrible. The Hebrew word "hebel" is written three wimes, to must carry the same meanings each time. You say "Evanescent vapors emptiness"
Ecc 12:8 (TLV) “Evanescent vapors,” says Kohelet. All is futility. Nope the Hebrew translation does – attack away
KJV say "Vanity Vanity Vanity " at least the KJV is consistent Consistent with what?
Jeff says "Emptiness, Emptiness, all is Emptiness". And Dave said - D”Evanescent vapors – emptiness of emptiness all is emptiness I think Dave you are looking to twist meanings in the Hebrew word that is not there. If you do not agree with Jeff Brenner why do you quote him?
So far Dave you have not listed any discussions that support a personal spark within you. Deny away Robert You do not have to believe – if you choose to be Elisha’s servant instead of the Prophet himself – it is your choice
Than Dave lists a passage Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. R" How can the "spirit" be born again, if the "spirit" is already living in the man and is eternal? This is the same question Nicodemus asked He didn't understand either - at the time
No one is forcing you to believe - all I can do is witness God's word R" Dave your discussions are not there, you did not witness anything. Showing people verses proves nothing. Your only response to any discussion = I don’t believe it - I BELIEVE YOU You have made that very clear
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 13:21:28 GMT -5
D" Jeff says "Emptiness, Emptiness, all is Emptiness". And Dave said - D”Evanescent vapors – emptiness of emptiness all is emptiness I think Dave you are looking to twist meanings in the Hebrew word that is not there. If you do not agree with Jeff Brenner why do you quote him? R" I do agree with Jeff. Why do you make out "Evanescent vapors – " as "emptiness of emptiness all is emptiness" you are self deluding yourself, the word "hebel" does not mean "Evanescent vapors ".
D"Deny away Robert RP" How can the "spirit" be born again, if the "spirit" is already living in the man and is eternal? D" This is the same question Nicodemus asked He didn't understand either - at the time No one is forcing you to believe - all I can do is witness God's word R" You have not supplied one Hebrew verse, nor answered a single question of mine. Therefore I conclude you have not a case for your eternal dwelling spark within you.
Can't you defend your theories Dave?
I gave you a long list of compelling verses and you fail to discuss a single one of them with your view.
Ro 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
D"Your only response to any discussion = I don’t believe it - I BELIEVE YOU You have made that very clear
R" You can't supply me with a compelling verse or logical discussion Dave. Your theories are like falling sand, they are not grounded upon Scripture at all.
R" If this learned Jew thought he had some immortal living spirit already in him, why does this Jew say how can my spirit be born again a second time? He did not understand. and yes it is literal. Ye must be born again.
Not a single comment from Dave? Dave doesn't know.
Ps 31:5 Into thine hand <yad> I commit <paqad> my spirit <ruwach>: thou hast redeemed <padah> me, O LORD <Y@hovah> God <'el> of truth <'emeth>.
Not a single comment from Dave? Dave doesn't know. When you die, your ruwach returns to support elohiym power, (faith) , meaning your spirit must associated itself with another personal Being. This is again the idea of a divine relationship as the term "faith" and it's related words imply. Not an independent spirit returning to do it's own thing, like representing you and talking for you....
You have swallowed the lies of the serpent" Thou shalt not surely die" and are deceived.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 20, 2021 20:34:33 GMT -5
I think Dave you are looking to twist meanings in the Hebrew word that is not there. If you do not agree with Jeff Brenner why do you quote him? R" I do agree with Jeff. Why do you make out "Evanescent vapors – " as "emptiness of emptiness all is emptiness" you are self deluding yourself, the word "hebel" does not mean "Evanescent vapors ". Ecc 12:7 (TLV) Then the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. Ecc 12:8 (TLV) “Evanescent vapors,” says Kohelet. All is futility. Abbreviation - TLV Published - 2011 Textual basis - OT: Masoretic Text . NT: Nestle-Aland's Novum Testamentum Graece (27th edition). Translation type - Word-for-word Reading level - 8th Grade (Age 13)Copyright - Messianic Jewish Bible SocietyReligious affiliation - Messianic JudaismWebsite - www.tlvbiblesociety.org/you are self deluding yourself, the word "hebel" does not mean "Evanescent vapors ".You will have to take your criticism of Messianic Judaism with them – contact information providedMy translation = as "emptiness of emptiness all is emptiness" Does it surprise you that two different independent TRANSLAORS reached the exact same conclusion? Do you support Jeff Brenner – just not me – even when we say the same thing word for wordOr are you in such a rush to defame and criticize you do not have time to check your facts? Academic honesty D"Deny away Robert RP" How can the "spirit" be born again, if the "spirit" is already living in the man and is eternal? The terminology in English = to quicken our spirit – to wake our spirit up – to empower our spiritYou say this is impossible because man has no spiritThere is no need for you to embrace the spirit – because you believe you are the Holy Spirit Animals empowered by the HS – all of us are gods – because our spirit is also one of your godsYOUR VERSERo 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. That is what I just said – quicken – to make aliveQuicken – verb - 1. make or become faster or quicker. 2. stimulate or become stimulated. What does the phrase quickening mean?The action of bringing someone or something to life. noun. The first noticable movements of a foetus during pregnancy, or the period when this occurs. noun. Stimulation, What does quickened in the Bible mean?The word quicken is used in the King James Version of the Bible, and it means “revive or make alive.” If something is living, it is “quick”; to “quicken” something is to bring it to life or restore it to a former flourishing condition. G2227 – ζωοποιέω - to (re-) vitalize (literally or figuratively): - make alive, give life, quicken. Thayer Definition: 1) to produce alive, begat or bear living young 2) to cause to live, make alive, give life 2a) by spiritual power to arouse and invigorate 2b) to restore to life 2c) to give increase of life: thus of physical life 2d) of the spirit, quickening as respects the spirit, endued with new and greater powers of life 3) metaphorically, of seeds quickened into life, i.e. germinating, springing up, growing To be Born Again – is the moment when the Spirit of God / The Holy Spirit touches your spirit and your spirit is (re-) vitalize (literally or figuratively): - by spiritual power to arouse and invigorate - to restore to life of the spirit, quickening as respects the spirit, endued with new and greater powers of life It is an awakening to the FACT of spiritOnce you are burnt in a fire - you KNOW (yada) (gnosis) the fire burns - You do not believe it is hot - beliefs can change Once you gnosis (yada) know something as FACT - your view - your opinion cannot change There no chance in hell you will ever convince me that I did not encounter a spirit Or any of the people I offer as witness You can mock away all you want – your mocking does not change our experience If you see a UFO - can anyone ever convince you that you were mistaken - NO Do you know what a VPN is? How do I know you are in Australia? I have never seen you there. If I say - I do not believ you are in Australia Question - are you offened or would I just look stupid If I called you a dumb blond woman Question - are you offened or would I just look stupid To tell someone that have not been touched by God - spoke in tounges - healed the sick - witnessed a mirical - saw an angel of the Lord - or saw a demon from the dark side Question - do you think they are offened or would you just look stupid D"Your only response to any discussion = I don’t believe it - I BELIEVE YOU You have made that very clear Ps 31:5 Into thine hand <yad> I commit <paqad> my spirit <ruwach>: thou hast redeemed <padah> me, O LORD <Y@hovah> God <'el> of truth <'emeth>. Not a single comment from Dave? Dave doesn't know. When you die, your ruwach returns to support elohiym power, (faith) , meaning your spirit must associated itself with another personal Being. This is again the idea of a divine relationship as the term "faith" and it's related words imply.Wow – what a bunch of religious talkI commit MY SPIRIT – why do you spend so much time arguing vocabulary and avoiding the entire messageThere are 1000s of witness to the spirit - the internet is filled with them - history is filled with them - the agl is filled with them - the ahl is filled with them - all of the cultures of the entire globe are filled with themYour denial - well - it just makes you appear to be a denierLike I said - I believ you and the more you deny - the farther you are from the experience What would your prayer sound like - 'Hey I do not believe - but prove it to me Lord'Luk 4:12 But answering, Yeshua said to him, “It is said, ‘You shall not put Adonai your God to the test.’” There are 1000s of witness to the spirit - the internet is filled with them - history is filled with them - the agl is filled with them - the ahl is filled with them - all of the cultures of the entire globe are filled with themYou must get so tired denying the whole world all around youCCTV 'proof' ghosts exist | Nine News Australia - YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com › watch Mar 13, 2019 — Do you believe in ghosts? The landlord at an old English country pub claims to have 'proof' of paranormal activity. But not everyone agrees. Ghost Storieswww.utas.edu.au › library › Ghost stories 'Of all the Australian states Tasmania is said to be the most haunted' ... of European settlement in Tasmania has generated an abundance of ghost stories. Indigenous Spirit and Ghost Folklore of "Settled" Australia - jstorhttps://www.jstor.org › stable by PA Clarke · 2007 · Cited by 44 — This paper investigates the roles of Australian. Aboriginal mythology in recent indigenous and non-indigenous cultures within temperate Australia. Introduction. Great Australian Ghost Stories - HarperCollins Australiahttps://www.harpercollins.com.au › Book Details About the Book. Australia has a rich history of ghost sightings and spooky tales, from the time of European settlement until today - and they are all here ...
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Post by Dave on Dec 20, 2021 22:00:06 GMT -5
Thunder Energies (OTC: TNRG) Discovers Invisible Entities
Ruggero Santilli – google him – many people call him a quack – and promotes pseudo-science His new anti-matter telescope can see INVISIBLE TERRESTRIAL ENTITIES 2 types – brights and darks – imagine that
many people call him a quack – and promotes pseudo-science Yet – NASA, the US Air Force, The US Navy, the Vatican, and the US Government bought many telescopes from him - interestingly – so has SpaceX
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Larry
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by Larry on Dec 21, 2021 6:12:08 GMT -5
One of our prisoners here started seeing her old family dog. You could watch her talk to it and pet its head. She seemed happy. Then she left us. I hope I am as lucky.
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