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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2021 14:46:12 GMT -5
D" According to you – if a man has brain damage – or is born retarded Salvation is impossible This must be some of your men that God creates and then denies any opportunity for salvation Then according to you – it is just OK to kill them R woooo hang on pleaseeee. I never say this.... why do you mock so much???
Surely any human can make a decision, and be saved within a 7 second prayer? God does not wound any person, all are given many opportunities to hear the still small voice of the conscience and obey it's pleading.
"According to you – if a man has brain damage – or is born retarded Salvation is impossible"
I have never said this, nor suggested this?
God saved even the King of Babylon who was made for 7 years. God can save anyone, regardless of their brain damage.
Where do you get such ideas? Certainly not from me....
D" So it was your satan that told Israel to murder all the Amorite So it was your satan that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah So it was your satan that cursed Israel with a plague R Can't you read my posts properly?
Job 1:16 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
Question: Why doers Scripture say the fire of GOD fell upon Job's blessings, if it wasn't GOD that caused the destruction?
Why is this written in this way Dave? Answer this question first?
D" R Hang on a minute. Satan is opposing man. Yes you agree. But this is NOT proof Satan is opposing GOD? WHAT! – this is your definition of satan Your satan hates God – opposes God Now you say he is God’s friend? R Read through these Dave
1 Kings 22 seems to suggest GOD allows an evil spirit to do His will? What do others think of this idea?
EGW "Unsanctified ministers are arraying themselves against God. They are praising Christ and the god of this world in the same breath. While professedly they receive Christ, they embrace Barabbas, and by their actions say, “Not this Man, but Barabbas.” Let all who read these lines, take heed. Satan has made his boast of what he can do. He thinks to dissolve the unity which Christ prayed might exist in His church. He says, “I will go forth and be a lying spirit to deceive those that I can, to criticize, and condemn, and falsify.” Let the son of deceit and false witness be entertained by a church that has had great light, great evidence, and that church will discard the message the Lord has sent, and receive the most unreasonable assertions and false suppositions and false theories. Satan laughs at their folly, for he knows what truth is. Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers"
EGW "The truth as it is in Jesus is regarded as an old-fashioned doctrine. The maxims of the world, that know not God, have been worked into the theories of the church. In the eyes of men, vain philosophy and science, falsely so-called, is of more value than the word of God. The sentiment prevails to a large extent that the divine Mediator is not essential to the salvation of man. A variety of theories advanced by the so-called worldly-wise men for man's elevation, are believed and trusted in more than is the truth of God, as taught by Christ and his apostles. The lying spirit that enticed Eve in Eden, finds acceptance with the majority of earth's inhabitants today. Even the Christian world refuses to be converted by the Spirit of God, but listen to the prince of darkness, as he comes to them in the garb of an angel of light. The spirit of antichrist is prevailing in the world to a far greater extent than it has ever prevailed before. Review & Herald November 8, 1892"
WAGGONER "When you have frequently censured your brethren at the instigation of your wife, it has injured you terribly. Her satanic, lying spirit has separated you in the past from your brethren. Finally she was left to pursue her own course, following the promptings of her unconsecrated heart. Then you could have been free from her and God designed that you should be free from her, but Satan was not willing to let loose his hold on you through your wife, and have you situated so that his power could no longer pervert your judgment and cloud your discernment. Your wife affected repentance, but this was not genuine any more than was Esau’s. She had sold herself to work wickedness. Hypocrisy and iniquity were in her heart. Lt 3, 1872, Waggoner, J. H."
Matthew Henry's Complete Bible Commentary, p. 1.1173 (Matthew Henry) ... to the seed of the serpent these serpents were no amazement. Note, God suffers the lying spirit to do strange things, that the faith of some may be tried and manifested (Deuteronomy ...
SDA Bible Commentary, vol. 7 (EGW), p. 950.4 (Ellen Gould White) The lying spirit that enticed Eve in Eden, finds acceptance with the majority of earth's inhabitants today. Even the Christian world refuses to be converted by the Spirit of God, but listens to the prince of darkness, as he comes to them in the garb of an angel of light. The spirit of Antichrist is prevailing in the world to a far greater extent than it has ever prevailed before.
The Conditionalist Faith of Our Fathers, vol. 2, p. 1153.1 (LeRoy Edwin Froom) As to Satan, he is variously named Lucifer, fallen cherub, accuser of the brethren, adversary, Beelzebub, devil, enemy, evil spirit, father of lies, liar, lying spirit, murderer, old serpent, power of darkness, prince of this world, prince of devils, prince of the power of the air, god of this world, Satan, spirit that worketh in the children of disobedience, tempter, unclean spirit, wicked one. What an unsavory and incriminating array! The supporting scriptures are here listed for reference.
BIBLE says 23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.
John Wesley comments: He said-I will give thee a distinct and true account of the whole matter, in God's name and presence. I saw-By the eyes of my mind: for he could not see the Lord with bodily eyes. The Host-The angels, both good and bad, the one possibly on his right, the other on his left hand. Nor is it strange that the devils are called the host of heaven; if you consider, first, that their original seat was in heaven. Secondly, that the name of heaven is often given to all that part of the world which is above the earth, and among the rest, to the air, and where the devil's residence and dominion lies, Eph 2:2, and that both Michael and his angels, and the Dragon and his angels, are said to be, and to wage war in heaven, Re 12:7, either the air, or the church.
John Wesley comments: A spirit-An evil spirit came, and presented himself before the throne.
D" Because the 10 Commandment do not allow a God that can only do tov R Is not GOD allowed to judge? So a judgement seems like RA, when you view it's action.
But it really GOD using RA as an act of love, people in Sodom were punished in milliseconds.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Apr 20, 2021 5:22:20 GMT -5
D" According to you – if a man has brain damage – or is born retarded Salvation is impossible This must be some of your men that God creates and then denies any opportunity for salvation Then according to you – it is just OK to kill them R woooo hang on pleaseeee. I never say this.... why do you mock so much???The command “no wounding” does not mean “no killing”, it refers to souls who are NOT given a chance of salvation. Is it possible if complete RA parents make babies for given many generations for no righteous baby to come forth, only RA babies and more RA parents? Such a condition must be possible? Or God could not do what GOD does in His strange act. God does not wound any person, all are given many opportunities to hear the still small voice of the conscience and obey it's pleading.So confusing – which theology to you accept"According to you – if a man has brain damage – or is born retarded Salvation is impossible" I have never said this, nor suggested this?R" Are you saying the archons are just dumb creatures like bacteria causing havoc upon humans, not intentionally influencing them to sin, and never, ruling over them? Why the fact that devils possess humans is proof they have superior intelligence and will to empower humans, who in comparison are the weaker, dumber ones. I am not sure if lower animals are able to make free will decisions Superior Intelligence = the ability to exercise Free Will to choose God Unintelligent creatures cannot exercise Free Will to choose GodSo confusing – which theology to you acceptWhere do you get such ideas? Certainly not from me....Who else writes this stuff – is some else hacking your post?D" So it was your satan that told Israel to murder all the Amorite So it was your satan that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah So it was your satan that cursed Israel with a plague R Can't you read my posts properly?D" God used them like tools to cause ra upon the people But your God cannot do ra -R' Correct GOD does not use RA, to influence humans.... GOD cannot initiate RA otherwise GOD would be tempting humans to sin. (James 1 says GOD never tempts humans to sin, nor tempts humans with ra. ) If God cannot initiate ra to influence people – who does? According to you – it must be your satan – your God is not allowed by your own rulesJob 1:16 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. Question: Why doers Scripture say the fire of GOD fell upon Job's blessings, if it wasn't GOD that caused the destruction? D" God used them like tools to cause ra upon the people But your God cannot do ra -R' Correct GOD does not use RA, to influence humans.... GOD cannot initiate RA otherwise GOD would be tempting humans to sin. (James 1 says GOD never tempts humans to sin, nor tempts humans with ra. ) According to you – scripture is in error The troubles upon Job cannot be from the hand of God – your theology
D" R Hang on a minute. Satan is opposing man. Yes you agree. But this is NOT proof Satan is opposing GOD? WHAT! – this is your definition of satan Your satan hates God – opposes God Now you say he is God’s friend? R Read through these Dave 1 Kings 22 seems to suggest GOD allows an evil spirit to do His will? What do others think of this idea? D You say – it is a sin to obey the Lord – I will remember that for a long timeNever have I heard anyone say in the realm of Christianity or Judaism – it is a sin to obey the Lord10 Commandment say – do not murder Then God tells Israel to perform genocide more than once Is it a sin to obey the Lord or not? And you say – whoever makes you sin - is a sinner and doing ra D" I asked 2Sa 24:15 So the LORD sent a pestilence upon Israel Were the bacteria responsible for the pestilence sinning? According to you – the bacteria should have REFUSED to obey God - it is a sin to obey the Lord WHY IS IT A SIN TO OBEY THE LORD?Matthew Henry's Complete Bible Commentary, p. 1.1173 (Matthew Henry) ... to the seed of the serpent these serpents were no amazement. Note, God suffers the lying spirit to do strange things, that the faith of some may be tried and manifested (Deuteronomy ... YES – I AGREE – God used them as tools to facilitate His WillWHY IS IT A SIN TO OBEY THE LORD?The Conditionalist Faith of Our Fathers, vol. 2, p. 1153.1 (LeRoy Edwin Froom)As to Satan, he is variously named Lucifer, fallen cherub, accuser of the brethren, adversary, Beelzebub, devil, enemy, evil spirit, father of lies, liar, lying spirit, murderer, old serpent, power of darkness, prince of this world, prince of devils, prince of the power of the air, god of this world, Satan, spirit that worketh in the children of disobedience, tempter, unclean spirit, wicked one. What an unsavory and incriminating array! The supporting scriptures are here listed for reference. The Conditionalist Faith of Our Fathers,tanbooks.com/catholic-tradition/catholic-teaching-books/the-faith-of-our-fathers-a-plain-exposition-and-vindication-of-the-church-founded-by-our-lord-jesus-christ/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw9_mDBhCGARIsAN3PaFOy9tS-mqQpW95pknR1vNTbIz3FRRIJIOAnhPouO71onsKvuPuhE6UaAkVIEALw_wcBYou quote a book that – “Explains the basic tenets of the Catholic Faith and why we hold them.” But you claim you are not Catholic Yet you fully endorse the Catholic Catacism of Fallen Angels – invented by Catholics and preached only by Catholics And what is the point of your postEph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the worldly forces of this darkness, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Deny the real enemy – just believe in a satan god Eph 6:13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you may be able to resist when the times are evil, and after you have done everything, to stand firm. Eph 6:14 Stand firm then! Buckle the belt of truth around your waist, Deny the real enemy – doubt the real enemy - just believe in a satan god
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Post by Dave on Apr 20, 2021 10:49:20 GMT -5
1 Kings 22 seems to suggest GOD allows an evil spirit to do His will? What do others think of this idea? EGW … Let all who read these lines, take heed. Satan has made his boast of what he can do. He thinks to dissolve the unity which Christ prayed might exist in His church. He says, “I will go forth and be a lying spirit to deceive those that I can, to criticize, and condemn, and falsify.” So confusingFirst you claim that satan opposes God and hates God there are two strong authorities in heaven at war with one another - Ellen White’s Great Controversy Now you quote Ellen White admitting that your satan is actually a volunteer doing a job for the Lord 1Ki 22:20 Then Adonai said, ‘Who will entice Ahab to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’ One suggested this and another that, 1Ki 22:21 until a certain spirit came forward and stood before Adonai and said, ‘I will entice him.’ So Adonai asked him, ‘How?’ 1Ki 22:22 And he said: ‘I will go and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ No wonder you feel qualified to argue muliple doctrins at the same time - even if they are contradictory Don Patton does it - Watlter Veith does it - and now you prove your Ellen White does it
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2021 13:14:03 GMT -5
I am overwhelmed by your replies Dave.
What does the unpardonable sin mean to you?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Apr 20, 2021 14:32:49 GMT -5
Are you embarrassed that your favorite prophet of your Lord admits that your satan is actually a volunteer working for the Lord? Completely contradictory to Her Great Controversy Are you embarrassed that you consider the Free Will act of choosing God a function of biological intelligence? Are you embarrassed they your new and original SDA Great Controversy is just Catholic Catechism Are you embarrassed because First you claimD" God used them like tools to cause ra upon the people But your God cannot do ra -R' Correct GOD does not use RA, to influence humans.... GOD cannot initiate RA otherwise GOD would be tempting humans to sin. (James 1 says GOD never tempts humans to sin, nor tempts humans with ra. ) If God cannot initiate ra to influence people – who does? According to you – it must be your satan – your God is not allowed by your own rulesBut you refuse to answer - Why is it a sin to obey the Lord And what is the point of your satanologyEph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the worldly forces of this darkness, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Deny the real enemy – just believe in a satan godEph 6:13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you may be able to resist when the times are evil, and after you have done everything, to stand firm. Eph 6:14 Stand firm then! Buckle the belt of truth around your waist, Deny the real enemy – doubt the real enemy - just believe in a satan god
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Post by Dave on Apr 20, 2021 22:30:39 GMT -5
The Conditionalist Faith of Our Fathers, vol. 2, p. 1153.1 (LeRoy Edwin Froom) As to Satan, he is variously named Lucifer, fallen cherub, accuser of the brethren, adversary, Beelzebub, devil, enemy, evil spirit, father of lies, liar, lying spirit, murderer, old serpent, power of darkness, prince of this world, prince of devils, prince of the power of the air, god of this world, Satan, spirit that worketh in the children of disobedience, tempter, unclean spirit, wicked one. What an unsavory and incriminating array! The supporting scriptures are here listed for reference. BIBLE says 23 Deny the real enemy – doubt the real enemy - just believe in a satan godahl has 23 – we discussed them and the 49 from the agl and the Book of JobSo the opponent is only an opponent to Job, in Job's story? Fair enough So where would you go looking to see if "opponent" actually "opposes" GOD? Line upon line, here and there, remember, how to read Scripture? And your answer isAt least we have discovered the value of line by line – it doesn’t matter if it goes against Catholic doctrine
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2021 14:26:19 GMT -5
Please prove to me that satan is God’s opponent – here are the versesYou mention this in your study so much and so often, I can't find where you posted it. So we need to do the study again, or I do the study again. We agree the Hebrew word "satan" verb and noun means to be an opponent, adversary or to oppose or be an opposer. I prefer the last meanings because you cannot make a verb from opponent, or a verb from adversary. Hypothesis: Does any creature oppose GOD directly?If GOD is above creation, and all power flows from GOD, a creature cannot oppose GOD directly in a physical way or oppose GOD directly in a spiritual way. No creature however powerful can achieve this. So this hypothesis answer is NO. So how can GOD develop free will and therefore love as a response, if Created Creation cannot oppose God as their source of love? God establishes moral laws of love, so if any creature opposes these laws relationally, they are by definition also opposing GOD who established these laws defining His flow of love. De 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever! Mt 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. Ro 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. Now sin is defined as transgression of the law. Job 13:23 ¶ How many are mine iniquities and sins? make me to know my transgression and my sin. Mic 6:7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? 8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? 1Jo 3:4 ¶ Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. (KJV) Sin is defined as breaking the principles of love. As Dave once said in a positive light, "obedience". You say is it "a sin to obey the Lord, even if the Lord asks you to break the principles of His laws?" God is logical and orderly and would not ask a creature to intentionally break His own laws. So if any creature does missing, they are missing the power of love from God to that creature, and this is therefore a sin. Since GOD is perfect and always perfect and everything GOD does, any less than perfect is considered missing. However some missing is NOT unto death. This is because GOD is able to cover the missing of many sins of humans without them being held accountable for that missing. spiritualsprings.org/ss-759.htmNow let us consider if other creatures apart from humans also sin, and thus break God's law's of love. Isa 42:16 And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. 17 They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that say to the molten images, Ye are our gods. 18 ¶ Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see. 19 Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD'S servant? 20 Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not. 21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable. 22 But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore.In this passage, the darkness makes the humans crooked, and spoilers do not restore. God promises to make His laws honourable and magnified. These powers that make darkness and crookedness are termed here "other elohiym power", what Dave calls the "non-god gods" before the true elohiym of heaven. Ac 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.This text in the NT explains who the darkness power "non-god gods of elohiym powers" are. The powers of darkness come from the powers of the Opposer. (some "non-god god of elohiym power" that opposes God's laws, and hence opposes God) Let us consider other verses using this term "satan" to establish if this term opposes God's law's of love. Mt 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.What royal law decree is this Opposer suggesting one can break? The first principle of love. I add another version of this law here> Ho 13:4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.The Opposer by asking Jesus to worship the Opposer was wanting to establish the Opposer as His Saviour. Scripture says only Jesus is a Saviour, and all come to the Father via Jesus, our Saviour. So by the Opposer claiming to be a Saviour of mankind, is breaking the royal laws of love. Here is the second verse using Satan: Mt 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; The Jews claim Jesus is working for the chief devil Beelzebub. Jesus is saying He is working for GOD. There are two kingdoms mentioned here. Notice the simile presented: Mt 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.A man can only be spoiled by a spoiler who comes to attack his house. What royal commandment is broken here> No steal. The devils come to steal property belonging to humans, created by GOD. The property or physical world created by GOD for man is all of Creation. And man was placed in the world to govern and subdue Creation. Consider the demoniac man spoiled by the spoilers who entered him, possessing him. The man lived alone, not in a house, but ruled by devils called Legion because many devils had entered into him. What happened when Jesus cast out the spoilers of the man's soul? Lu 8:39 Return to thine own house, and shew how great things God hath done unto thee. And he went his way, and published throughout the whole city how great things Jesus had done unto him. So the devil's steal your property, and spoil your house. Notice Jesus after healing the man, returns the man back to this former house, and tells the man to speak of the glory God has done for you. Consider the third verse: Mt 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. What commandment is the Opposer breaking here? No false witness. Ro 9:1 ¶ I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,Here is one voice in the conscience of the soul of man 1Ti 4:1 ¶ Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;Here is the opposing voice in the conscience of the soul of man, but only if the voice of the HS is quashed by you searing the communication channel, and allowing the seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils. But Peter was a disciple of Jesus, could He also have listened to another master speaking to Him? Mt 6:24 No man can serve two masters: So in this passage Jesus is identifying the other master as the Opposer, the one Peter listened to and thus made suggestions to Jesus. I will stop here, and have shown Dave and readers the first three of the "satan" verses, describing the transgressions of the law, each passage entails. Any creature that breaks the royal principles of law, is considered a sinner, or a creature missing the perfect love of GOD, and therefore opposes GOD's flow of love into that creature. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Apr 21, 2021 15:35:06 GMT -5
Please prove to me that satan is God’s opponent – here are the verses You mention this in your study so much and so often, I can't find where you posted it. So we need to do the study again, or I do the study again.ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/429/bible-study-satanPonder a Discussion > What is Gnosticism > Bible Study satan Bring it on – in each verse satan is opposing man not GodBut then you say – anyone opposing man is opposing God So I ask - what about the times when God opposses man - your God opooses Himself? and I ask – what about the times satan obeys God – why is it a sin to obey God Then you change the subject Hypothesis: Does any creature oppose GOD directly? - NO.I agree with you – the idea of your Great Controversy is errorThere is no raging Rev 12:7 war in heaven opposing God - It is a Gen 3:15 Contest within physicial 3D creation God establishes moral laws of love, so if any creature opposes these laws relationally, they are by definition also opposing GOD who established these laws defining His flow of love.Here we are again – God cannot kill or murder – the 10 Commandments say so But God kills man – and tells Israel to kill many – all of it pre-meditated murder So any Israeli obeying God is opposing God So any angel obeying God is opposing God Now sin is defined as transgression of the law.If the Law = the 10 Commandments – your God sins and forces others to sin Because you say – it is a sin to obey God Now let us consider if other creatures apart from humans also sin, and thus break God's law's of love.Isa 42:16 - 22 These powers that make darkness and crookedness are termed here "other elohiym power", what Dave calls the "non-god gods" before the true elohiym of heaven. YES – ‘other gods’ are archon / false gods / pretended gods / gods with a small g – all of them are archon This text in the NT explains who the darkness power "non-god gods of elohiym powers" are. The powers of darkness come from the powers of the Opposer. YES – the Beast of Rev 12:3 – the Beast of Rev 20:10 – The First Archon YES – This Archon and all archon can be called a satan when performing that function
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Post by Dave on Apr 21, 2021 23:11:52 GMT -5
Sin is defined as breaking the principles of love. You say is it "a sin to obey the Lord, even if the Lord asks you to break the principles of His laws?" I don’t say it – it is your argument God is logical and orderly and would not ask a creature to intentionally break His own laws. God instructed Joshua and Saul to commit genocide – killing – murder So which one of your multiple family of gods did this – it is a ra so it must have been your satan God instructed the Angel of Death to fall upon the Egyptians So which one of your multiple family of gods did this – it is a ra so it must have been your satan
Ho 13:4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.
Scripture says only Jesus is a Saviour, and all come to the Father via Jesus, our Saviour. This passage says God is the savior – I accept the Trinity and don’t have an issue with this verse Yet you deny that Jesus Christ is God incarnate
Here is the second verse using Satan: Mt 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; There are two kingdoms mentioned here. YES – God’s kingdom is all of creation – the ALL – all 10 heavens and all that is in them The Kingdom of the archon is physical creation and has been since Gen 1:2
The devils come to steal property belonging to humans, created by GOD. The property or physical world created by GOD for man is all of Creation. And man was placed in the world to govern and subdue Creation.
Sorry – WRONG – the archon were here long before man Man was given dominion over the archon’s kingdom
What happened when Jesus cast out the spoilers of the man's soul? What is a man’s soul – you say man is just memories You say it is a sin to believe that man is spirit – that man is a soul
1Ti 4:1 ¶ Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; SURE – some denominations have gone so far as to craft a satanology disguise as Christian doctrine The idea of One True God is error - it takes a family of gods so love can exist And to that a god of evil called satan The idea that man is spirit or has a soul is a sin The idea of First Fruits is a lie and only meant for others
Mt 6:24 No man can serve two masters: Agree – either you seek spirituality and God – or your remain loyal to the WORLD Any creature that breaks the royal principles of law, is considered a sinner, or a creature missing the perfect love of GOD, and therefore opposes GOD's flow of love into that creature. And you insist that your God is a sinner – or the real god of the Exodus and most of the ahl was actually satan
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2021 14:03:24 GMT -5
Isa 42:16 - 22 These powers that make darkness and crookedness are termed here "other elohiym power", what Dave calls the "non-god gods" before the true elohiym of heaven. YES – ‘other gods’ are archon / false gods / pretended gods / gods with a small g – all of them are archon
R" So you agree Isa 42:16 - 22 is speaking about devils (archons). Good.
Isa 42:22 But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore.
So you agree the spoilers who spoil the people here are devils (archons) ?
These spoilers snare the people into holes, These spoilers hid the people in prison houses, These spoilers seek people for prey, These spoilers do not allow any person to be delivered, These spoilers do not restore, they spoil and break down, not build up.
Would you agree therefore, the spoilers are spoiling the people? hence opposing God?
Why?
Because the spoilers are sinning making the people also sin, they are both breaking the laws of love.
It's fun to lustfully look at here, nobody will know. It's OK to drink a little alcohol, all drugs have a tov pupose don't they? It's OK to shoot animals for fun, is not man able to subdue all creation? Let me teach you sexaul depravity, says the archons. Let me show you how to steal and enjoying breaking the laws of God. Self is all you need says the archons, stop following moral laws of love. Who needs moral commandments anyway? the archons say.
Do you see the devils are also sinning, helping the humans also to sin?
Does Scripture ever say the devil was sinning from the devil's beginning?
Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
How many "fathers" does Jesus mention in this passage? two One father lives on earth and is called the Devil, He was a sinner from the beginning, and the father of all sinning. The other "Father" is over Jesus, and lives in heaven, who only promotes love.
Do you agree Jesus mentions two fathers here. In fact the Hebrew word father "eloah" does exactly that in meaning. It has two applications of father, one is a pagan father non-god god, the other application of father is the Heavenly Father. Do you agree eloah means most high deity, and has two applications of father in the torah?
The Jews accuse Jesus born from sin (fornication). Is there another human also born from sin? Yes David. Jesus was also a Son of David.
Ps 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
David's mother was not allowed to have sex with her husband because other Jews did not like the wife's lineage, spoiled by Ruth, etc. So the husband took another wife, and let the first wife to have no children. David was born from sin, the trickery of David's Mum, to get pregnant from her husband. The boy was despised by the father, and sent out as a slave boy, not treated as a son.
Is Jesus calling the devil here in John 8, a sinning creature or not Dave? The Devil was sinning from it's beginning, when it chose to do sinning. Do you agree? Jesus lists who major sins the Devil does, murderer and lying. We could add fornication too.
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Sorry – WRONG – the archon were here long before man
What was the purpose of Creation with humans over the Creation?
You agree the devils were banished to this rock in darkness long before Creation started, or long before man began to exist?
(1) God exists relationally hence love flows (2) God creates creation, other universes with absolute perfection, and creates angels as free will creatures of love. (3) One day slowly the chief angel sins over the jealousy with the child like SON of elohiym. The SON is allowed to talk with the Father and they create things together, but the chief angel is not allowed in these meeting, as creatures cannot create, nor do creatures help elohiym create. (4) This relationship missing process is allowed to grow, so other angels see what sin is about, and other unfallen beings on other universes also see what love and hate is about. (5) The war in heaven continues until the chief opposing angel get a third of the angels of GOD onto his side. God talks gently with them, some angels choose to repent. Some don't. Eventually their probation is closed. and God banishes the sinning angels to a lonely rock in total darkness. (6) God has to decide how to deal with the sin problem of millions of sinning angels banished to a lonely dark rock in space. (7) God decides to create a new Creation with earth as the centre stage, and humans who have never see sin before, are created as sinless law abiding citizens of this new creation, totally perfect and without ra of any kind except these millions of sinning angels. God places limits upon the angels, only one angel the chief angel is allowed to tempt the humans in this new creation, to sin, as the sinning angels banished there also sinned once before GOD.
Notice some Scripture, we have been through before
Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
One man wrought sinning into our world. Not a single mention of other beings sinning before man.
Did other beings sin before man?
Revelation 12 is written to answer this question.
"for the accuser of our brethren is cast down"
This Greek term kategoreo is about the function of a judge who judges you of some sin.
Mr 15:3 And the chief priests accused him of many things: but he answered nothing.
Here for example. The priests were chosen to judge humans of their sins. The priest accused Jesus of sins that deserved the death penalty.
Ro 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Notice the function of the accusing here. The accusing is done by our conscience, or the HS who speaks to our conscience because of our sinning.
Notice it says here GOD judges the secrets of men by Jesus. Not a single mention of a prosecutor. The accuser of the sinner, is the Father, the HS and Jesus Christ, as these passage shows.
for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, so why is this dragon mentioned as an accuser?
Re 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (KJV)
The reasons is given here, the accuser does not like sinners following commandments of love and achieving this under the power of Jesus.
SO this dragon accuser is making sure humans keep breaking the commandments. Which define sin.
The dragon does this by sinning himself, so making other humans also sin. Your comments please.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Apr 22, 2021 17:21:05 GMT -5
R" So you agree Isa 42:16 - 22 is speaking about devils (archons). Good. So you agree the spoilers who spoil the people here are devils (archons) ? These spoilers snare the people into holes, These spoilers hid the people in prison houses, These spoilers seek people for prey, These spoilers do not allow any person to be delivered, These spoilers do not restore, they spoil and break down, not build up.
The Hypostasis of the Archons - The Nag Hammadi Library Moreover, they threw mankind into great distraction and into a life of toil, so that their mankind might be occupied by worldly affairs, and might not have the opportunity of being devoted to the holy spirit.
OK – the archon spoil – by keeping man focused upon the world If you are 100% focused upon being a politician or winning an election – you are not focused upon God If you are 100% in love with Allah and Islam – you are not focused upon the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob If you are consumed by – Rock-n-Roll / football / archology / biochemistry You are sidetracked with WORLD
Would you agree therefore, the spoilers are spoiling the people? hence opposing God? This is your false assumption God told satan to test Job – into your hands – but do not kill him Satan was a big spoiler Satan obeyed God and did exactly as God Willed
1 Kings 22 – a volunteer spirit comes forth to be a deceiving spirit for the Lord – to do a task for the Lord – to help facilitate Gods Will Another spoiler here as well Your own Ellen White identifies this VOLENTEER DECEIVING SPIRIT as your satan
But you refuse to answer – why is it a sin to obey God
Do you see the devils are also sinning, helping the humans also to sin? Question – are bacteria, viruses, cows, mice, termites, and mosquitos sinners –NO They just do what they do - and sometimes what they do test man – tries man’s patience Sometimes what they do spoils a lot Little Jimmy is dying of leukemia – he is 2 yrs old His parents have been in church every Sunday – donated – attended the meetings Who sinned – little Jimmy / his parents / his father / or his genetic defect Sometimes – the ra in our lives is just WORLD
You doubt his parents didn't pray ernestly Their pastor - thier church - their prayer circle - even a national prayer requests Doesn't your Feel Good God answer prayers? The question is the only legacy of Feel Good Christendom - doubt
Usually - litlle Jimmy's parents end up leaving the faith and getting divorced There is the real Christian witness of the local corner church Feel Good Christianity is only 1/2 a God As you say - is not God allowed to judge - and judgment is always ra in man's perspective If God is allowed to judge - then He is allowed to carry out judgment Isa 45:7 I form light and create darkness. I make tov and ra. I, Adonai, do all these things.
The archon are self-creatures – governed by yester ra only – just like a cow or an ant I do not give them any more credit than a tribe of baboons loose in creation I do not praise them - I do not give them power They have been run up a pole - and I see them for who they are They are agents of - The Valley of the Shadow of Death I will fear no evil - because I choose to walk with God
Will evil still come upon me - YES - in many forms It may evem kill me - and probably will - ra ra ra = WORLD WORLD WORLD
Does Scripture ever say the devil was sinning from the devil's beginning? 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
1- this is the archon’s domain 2- You said – your post from your reference The Devil = Azazal the leader of the bane elohiym than sinned against man and nature YES – he was the leader that choose to embrace yester ra and WORLD with its physical pleasures
This is an important point you make Mat 24:37 “For just as the days of Noah were, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Mat 24:38 For in those days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, (and the bane elohiym were on the ground - with their Nephilim demi-gods and chimeras - in very large numbers - all flesh was crupt) until the day Noah entered the ark.
Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the worldly forces of this darkness, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Eph 6:13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you may be able to resist when the times are evil, and after you have done everything, to stand firm. Eph 6:14 Stand firm then! Buckle the belt of truth around your waist,
But you say - ignore all this and all these players Just focus upon satan
One father lives on earth and is called the Devil, YES – the domain of the archon is physical creation He was a sinner from the beginning, - from his beginning - OK
and the father of all sinning. Sorry Robert – I know you want someone else to blame sin upon – however
Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned.
Is Jesus calling the devil here in John 8, a sinning creature or not Dave? Jude and 2 Peter say all the bane elohiym were sinners - and you identify their leader as the devil Azazal
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Sorry – WRONG – the archon were here long before man What was the purpose of Creation with humans over the Creation?
Jer 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you, and before you were born, I set you apart—I appointed you prophet to the nations.”
Authoritative Teaching - The Nag Hammadi Library And before anything came into being, it was the Father alone who existed, before the worlds that are in the heavens appeared, or the world that is on the earth, or principality, or authority, or the powers. [...] appear [...] and [...] And nothing came into being without his wish.
He, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear, and make all those who contend leave behind the things that had come into being, and despise them with a lofty, incomprehensible knowledge, and flee to the one who exists.
And (as for) those who contend with us, being adversaries who contend against us, we are to be victorious over their ignorance through our knowledge, since we have already known the Inscrutable One from whom we have come forth. We have nothing in this world,
Mat 10:16 “Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.
The Exegesis on the Soul - The Nag Hammadi Library For the beginning of salvation is repentance. Therefore (cf. Acts 13:24), "Before Christ`s appearance came John, preaching the baptism of repentance."
And repentance takes place in distress and grief. But the father is good and loves humanity, and he hears the soul that calls upon him and sends it the light of salvation. Therefore he said through the spirit to the prophet (cf. 1 Cl 8:3), "Say to the children of my people, 'If your sins extend from earth to heaven, and if they become red like scarlet and blacker than sackcloth, and if you return to me with all your soul and say to me 'my Father!', I will heed you as a holy people.'"
Luk 15:17 “But when he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired workers have food overflowing, but here I am dying of hunger! Luk 15:18 I’ll get up and go to my father, and I’ll say to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your presence. Luk 15:19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired workers. Luk 15:20 “And he got up and went to his own father. But while he was still far away, his father saw him and felt compassion. He ran and fell on his neck and kissed him. Luk 15:21 Then the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your presence. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ Luk 15:22 “But the father said to his slaves, ‘Quick! Bring out the best robe and put it on him! Put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet.
You agree the devils were banished to this rock in darkness long before Creation started, or long before man began to exist? One man wrought sinning into our world. Not a single mention of other beings sinning before man. Did other beings sin before man? Revelation 12 is written to answer this question.
Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: a great fiery red dragon that had seven heads and ten horns, and seven royal crowns on his heads. The Beast of revelation – the First Archon
for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, so why is this dragon mentioned as an accuser? For the 25 Millionth time – the archon are self (yester ra) creatures They cause man to miss by keeping man sidetracked with WORLD
Re 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. YES! ABSOLUTELY AGREE – Gen 3:15
SO this dragon accuser is making sure humans keep breaking the commandments. Which define sin. The dragon does this by sinning himself, so making other humans also sin. Your comments please.
In the story of Job – satan was the accuser – the opposer – in the service of God – facilitating God’s Will In 1 Kings 22 – a volunteer spirit acts as a deceiving spirit in the service of the Lord In 1 Chr 21 2 Sam 24 it is satan or God – or God and satan – or God is satan
WHY IS IT A SIN TO OBEY THE LORD - Interesting foundational theology for a Christian
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2021 16:38:36 GMT -5
Greetings Dave D"Your own Ellen White identifies this VOLENTEER DECEIVING SPIRIT as your satan
R" Yes she does, but the question is, is Satan a good angel doing a bad job for GOD? Or GOD allowing this Opposer to oppose God's work, because it is a great controversy?
D" But you refuse to answer – why is it a sin to obey God R you keep asking this? Care to explain what you are actually asking of me?
D"Do you see the devils are also sinning, helping the humans also to sin? R" Yes
D" Question – are bacteria, viruses, cows, mice, termites, and mosquitos sinners –NO R Correct because : Ec 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
Only man's is recorded of character (spirit), other animals affected by the curse of man's sin, and not held accountable.
D" They just do what they do - and sometimes what they do test man – tries man’s patience Sometimes what they do spoils a lot Little Jimmy is dying of leukemia – he is 2 yrs old His parents have been in church every Sunday – donated – attended the meetings Who sinned – little Jimmy / his parents / his father / or his genetic defect Sometimes – the ra in our lives is just WORLD
R" The affect is the RA comes from SIN generally, the first SIN thay Adam did.
Joh 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? 3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. 4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. 5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
Who worketh the night? Where does darkness come from? Not from GOD.
Ac 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. (KJV)
The worker of darkness, is identified here as Satan.
But how is this possible, when darkness cannot normally exist under God's light?
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do
God has to create the darkness's existence. To make darkness otherwise would NOT normally exist in God's presence.
So because of this you say GOD created darkness because He wanted to created darkness as a part of GOD's will. NO. Your assumption is wrong.
Why did GOD have to create darkness, and hence allow a ruler of darkness do more darkness?
Because the angel who fell wanted to keep on sinning....
The cheub chata verse you ignore is the key to this reason.
Angels SIN, so GOD had to allow the SINNING to be seen, hence GOD creates the darkness so the angels who sin, can see the sinning they do, and others in other unfallen worlds can also see the sin the angels do.
Sure God allowed a lying spirit to make false prophets, who is called Satan, and EGW also agrees with you, but to say this angel is doing GOD's will, is false.
Darkness has nothing to do with light. Yet you say GOD lives with both, God puts up with natural RA all the time. Gnosticism is a very dangerous theory Dave and you are caught in it.
You also claim to be a trinity supporter. This is false too. Modalism is not the same as the idea of trinity. I showed you the historical debate over this idea centuries ago, and so the early churches banished Gnostic supporters from their ideas. You twist modalism into a kind of trinity idea so you can accept trinity as well.
D" You doubt his parents didn't pray ernestly Their pastor - thier church - their prayer circle - even a national prayer requests Doesn't your Feel Good God answer prayers? The question is the only legacy of Feel Good Christendom - doubt
Usually - litlle Jimmy's parents end up leaving the faith and getting divorced There is the real Christian witness of the local corner church Feel Good Christianity is only 1/2 a God As you say - is not God allowed to judge - and judgment is always ra in man's perspective If God is allowed to judge - then He is allowed to carry out judgment Isa 45:7 I form light and create darkness. I make tov and ra. I, Adonai, do all these things.
R You are suggesting GOD is the source of both RA and TOV in this world, so little Jimmy's RA is somehow connected to GOD's overall plans of good.
The GOD I support Dave is no supporter of RA, only TOV. Hence we are different in our views.
D" The archon are self-creatures – governed by yester ra only – just like a cow or an ant I do not give them any more credit than a tribe of baboons loose in creation I do not praise them - I do not give them power They have been run up a pole - and I see them for who they are They are agents of - The Valley of the Shadow of Death I will fear no evil - because I choose to walk with God R Hmm? The angels who fell from heaven are sinning angels full of self, yes and these angels generate a lot of RA in man's world, today we see alien images generated by these angels. These angels are bent on keeping mankind sinning, so their own kingdom of SIN will last as long as possible. Once GOD deals with SIN, and all the affects of SIN, this choice of the free will of love will never rear its ugly head again. The sinners of men and angels will never be seen again.
D"But you say - ignore all this and all these players Just focus upon satan R The term satan is a function descriptor of any sinner both angel or human to sins and thus opposes GOD. All these sinners are players. In the beginning the chief angel was the first angel to sin. That is all this angel did, was the first to sin. Others also SIN.
R"Is Jesus calling the devil here in John 8, a sinning creature or not Dave? D" Jude and 2 Peter say all the bane elohiym were sinners - and you identify their leader as the devil Azazal R afraid to answer my question? Of course the Devil is a sinner who sins. Jesus says so.
D" Sorry – WRONG – the archon were here long before man R correct. War in heaven, long before our creation? or during our creation as you claim? Which is it?
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D" Re 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. YES! ABSOLUTELY AGREE – Gen 3:15
SO this dragon accuser is making sure humans keep breaking the commandments. Which define sin. The dragon does this by sinning himself, so making other humans also sin. Your comments please.
In the story of Job – satan was the accuser – the opposer – in the service of God – facilitating God’s Will In 1 Kings 22 – a volunteer spirit acts as a deceiving spirit in the service of the Lord In 1 Chr 21 2 Sam 24 it is satan or God – or God and satan – or God is satan
WHY IS IT A SIN TO OBEY THE LORD - Interesting foundational theology for a Christian
R OK I will ask you an impossible question too, that impacts your view?
Does darkness normally exist in the presence of God as light? WHY IS IT A SIN TO OBEY THE LORD - Interesting foundational theology for a Christian
Does darkness normally exist in the presence of God as light? - Interesting foundational theology for a Gnostic.
WHY IS IT A SIN for DARKNESS to EXIST UNDER GOD's LIGHT? - Interesting foundational theology for a Gnostic.
You cannot answer this question because physics says light is light, and darkness cannot exist. In fact Einstein says darkness does not exist. So how is it than we see darkness and thus also see sin? Because GOD creates an affect so these things exist. Not because God wants them to exist, but because the SINNER wants the SINNING to exist. You do not get this idea.
SHalom Shabbat
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Post by Dave on Apr 24, 2021 9:51:54 GMT -5
D"Your own Ellen White identifies this VOLENTEER DECEIVING SPIRIT as your satan R" Yes she does, but the question is, is Satan a good angel doing a bad job for GOD? Or GOD allowing this Opposer to oppose God's work, because it is a great controversy?This volunteer did a necessary task for the Lord – to facilitate God Will Please explain to me why this is opposing God Are you suggesting God asked for an opposer to oppose GodYou are so twisted with your satan theology D" But you refuse to answer – why is it a sin to obey God R you keep asking this? Care to explain what you are actually asking of me?RepeatR" So you agree Isa 42:16 - 22 is speaking about devils (archons). Good. So you agree the spoilers who spoil the people here are devils (archons) ? These spoilers do not restore, they spoil and break down, not build up. The Hypostasis of the Archons - The Nag Hammadi LibraryMoreover, they threw mankind into great distraction and into a life of toil, so that their mankind might be occupied by worldly affairs, and might not have the opportunity of being devoted to the holy spirit. Would you agree therefore, the spoilers are spoiling the people? hence opposing God?This is your false assumptionGod told satan to test Job – into your hands – but do not kill him Satan was a big spoiler Satan obeyed God and did exactly as God Willed – and a lot of ra followed why is it a sin to obey God1 Kings 22 – a volunteer spirit comes forth to be a deceiving spirit for the Lord – to do a task for the Lord – to help facilitate Gods Will Another spoiler here as well Your own Ellen White identifies this VOLENTEER DECEIVING SPIRIT as your satanBut you refuse to answer – why is it a sin to obey God 1Ch 21:1 Then satan stood up against Israel and incited David 1Ch 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David 2Sa 24:1 Now the anger of Adonai again flared up against Israel, so He incited David 2Sa 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David In these two verses – how is satan opposing the will of God?Is God satan – or is satan doing a task for God If satan is sinning by opposing man - Then your God is a sinner as well Or – satan is working for the Lord Therefore – Why is it a sin to obey the LordD" Question – are bacteria, viruses, cows, mice, termites, and mosquitos sinners –NO R Correct because : Ec 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? Only man's is recorded of character (spirit), other animals affected by the curse of man's sin, and not held accountable.Only man – can sin – Correct because only man has the choice – man is the creature that can choose Satan obeyed God – and tested Job – but somehow you say it is a sin for an angel to obey the Lord R" The affect is the RA comes from SIN generally, the first SIN thay Adam did.Correct – I agree with you – no god of evil requiredThe worker of darkness, is identified here as Satan.YES ROBERT – every doer of darkness is a verbR"Is Jesus calling the devil here in John 8, a sinning creature or not Dave? D" Jude and 2 Peter say all the bane elohiym were sinners - and you identify their leader as the devil Azazal R afraid to answer my question? Of course the Devil is a sinner who sins. Jesus says so.What – I am totally agreeing with the way you present this Are you arguing against me now because I agree – definition of cantankerous --------- In the story of Job – satan was the accuser – the opposer – in the service of God – facilitating God’s Will In 1 Kings 22 – a volunteer spirit acts as a deceiving spirit in the service of the Lord In 1 Chr 21 2 Sam 24 it is satan or God – or God and satan – or God is satan D - WHY IS IT A SIN TO OBEY THE LORD - Interesting foundational theology for a ChristianR - Does darkness normally exist in the presence of God as light? - Interesting foundational theology for a Gnostic. R - WHY IS IT A SIN for DARKNESS to EXIST UNDER GOD's LIGHT? - Interesting foundational theology for a Gnostic.First you TWIST MY WORDS into something you can argue against And then to argue against the spiritual – you use the physicalYou cannot answer this question because physics says light is light, R OK I will ask you an impossible question too, that impacts your view? Does darkness normally exist in the presence of God as light?Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Gen 1:2 Now the earth was chaos and waste, darkness was on the surface of the deep, and the Ruach Elohim was hovering upon the surface of the water. Gen 1:3 Then God said, “Let there be light!” and there was light. Gen 1:4 God saw that the light was good. So God distinguished the light from the darkness. So God distinguished the light from the darkness God divided the light from the darkness. God separateth between the light and the darkness, God deuided the lyght from the darknes. Answer – the two are separated – by GodCathars (12th century Gnostic – without the Nag Hammadi) saw this as Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The visible separated from the invivible The corruptible separated from the incorruptible They saw this as physical creation is the corruptible (entropy) – separated from the incorruptible (spiritual) Things made with 3D corporeal matter decay and waste away – Stars – planets – mountains – animals – and animal man Opposed to – incoercible spiritual that does not die – angels do not die (naturally) The Trinity does not die – spirits beings in heaven do not grow old and die of old age Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: a great fiery red dragon that had seven heads and ten horns, and seven royal crowns on his heads. Rev 12:4 His tail sweeps away a third of the stars of heaven—it hurled them to the earth. Now the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that whenever she gave birth he might devour her child. he is waiting to devour whatever is birthed – all creation – all physical creation suffers from entropy The Cathars saw the Great red Dragon as physical creation Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. This is an ancient view The Nag Hammadi doesn’t say this – it says the Great Red Dragon is the First of Physical creation The First Archon was the First to be made of matter – and it/he expressed only yester ra (SELF) This is the Beast of revelation that has a General working for him named the devil (In fact 7 heads = 7 Generals – the one in our WORLD is our Devil)(You identified him – as Azazal – the leader of the bane elohiym)I don’t necessarily agree with this specific identifier – but I don’t disagree – but this ID works for now) Both are the First of physical creation - The Beast and his generals Both = The First Archon – his offspring archon – bane elohiym That caused the choshek of Gen 1:2 Answer – the two are separated – by GodJewish simile - some are of the right hand and some from the left hand 1- God created the heaves – incorruptibility – spiritual – invisible 2- God creates earth (of Gen 1:1 = physical creation) – 3- and corporeal creation comes with entropy / ra / corruptibility But there is a solution to this corruptibility Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. ahl or agl – same creation story – just two different viewsThe Hypostasis of the Archons – The Nag Hammadi LibraryA veil exists between the world above and the realms that are below; and shadow came into being beneath the veil; and that shadow became matter; and that shadow was projected apart. And what she had created became a product in the matter, like an aborted fetus. And it assumed a plastic form molded out of shadow, and became an arrogant beast resembling a lion. It was androgynous, as I have already said, because it was from matter that it derived. Opening his eyes, he saw a vast quantity of matter without limit; and he became arrogant, saying, "It is I who am God, and there is none other apart from me". = (SELF = YESTER RA) ahl or agl – or Gnostic - same creation story – just three different views all telling us the exact same story
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2021 16:57:10 GMT -5
1Ki 22:20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. 21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. 22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. 23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.
I agree with you it seems to say Satan volunteers to be the lying medium for doing RA, and this is asked for by GOD....
Hard to get another view from this passage.
God asks who will do RA for Ahab? And a medium stands before GOD and says I will go.
It seems like your view, a good angel doing a bad job. It seems to me to be a sinning angel doing the working of sinning the angel was already doing. And GOD is just allowing this medium to do his work.
Question was this angel sinless before becoming a lying spirit, or already sinning thus becoming a lying spirit?
Since Ahab was already sinning, one has to assume there must be a provider of RA for the medium to be a lying spirit. A medium carries the power of being able to sin.
Since long before Eden an angel sinned (cherub chata verse you ignore), I suggest this is just GOD asking who will help Ahab do RA? And the only medium that is allowed to go is the angels already sinning.
It's a difficult passage I agree, and I see your view...but using all the rest of Scripture I also see another view.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Apr 25, 2021 21:40:08 GMT -5
1Ki 22:20 -23 I agree with you it seems to say Satan volunteers to be the lying medium for doing RA, and this is asked for by GOD.... Hard to get another view from this passage.
It seems like your view, a good angel doing a bad job. It seems to me to be a sinning angel doing the working of sinning the angel was already doing. And GOD is just allowing this medium to do his work.
So your opposer opposes God / Hates God / works against God / is at war with God But volunteers to help God? I thought you said they were not friends
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