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Post by Dave on Feb 17, 2020 23:33:42 GMT -5
Personally – I just stick to what scripture says
Gen 1:27 (TLV) God created humankind in His image, in the image of God He created him, male and female He created them.
Gen 1:27 (YLT) And God prepareth the man in His image; in the image of God He prepared him, a male and a female He prepared them.
God = male /female Evidently you do not consider this scripture true
How can your scripture be poetic? Word mean only one thing only – no poetry – no metaphors – no similes – no parables – only one word definitions Cherub chata
1- Interesting that you turn to an Orthodox Catholic sub-group to make your point 2- I translate Greek – there is no way that a femine pronoun can exist in this sentence
(wiki) - Peshitta In a detailed examination of Matthew 1–14, Gwilliam found that the Peshitta agrees with the Textus Receptus only 108 times and with Codex Vaticanus 65 times. Meanwhile, in 137 instances it differs from both, usually with the support of the Old Syriac and the Old Latin, and in 31 instances it stands alone.
Joh 14:16 καὶ ἐγὼ ἐρωτήσω τὸν πατέρα καὶ ἄλλον παράκλητον δώσει ὑμῖν, ἵνα μένῃ μεθ᾿ ὑμῶν εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα,
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
I - G1473 - ἐγώ – me, myself, and I – Part of speech genderless pronoun Father - G3962 – πατήρ - Part of Speech: noun masculine Comforter - G3875 - παράκλητος Part of Speech: noun masculine An intercessor, consoler: - advocate, comforter
Greek is very specific – This is a conditional statement – I will pray THAT Exact translation The Father shall give you a Comforter So that – The Father may abide with you forever
Grammar matters Even if the second ‘HE” belonged to the “Comforter’ – which it cannot by the rules of Greek grammar But even if it did the pronoun is still masculine ‘HE’ and Comforter is a masculine word
Joh 14:26 ὁ δὲ παράκλητος, τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ ῞Αγιον ὃ πέμψει ὁ πατὴρ ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί μου, ἐκεῖνος ὑμᾶς διδάξει πάντα καὶ ὑπομνήσει ὑμᾶς πάντα ἃ εἶπον ὑμῖν.
Exact same translation requirement - HE - no she here
So your family has three gods? – how is that monotheistic?
So in your religion – Jesus Christ was not God incarnate Jesus was a man – how can Christ not be a man – Are you saying that Jesus Christ was not fully God
IMO = Chist = 100% God Jesus Christ = God incarnate Christ = the image of God Holy Spirit = 100% God Holy Spirit = The Spirit of God
Only one God - the Creator - who man can never see - unimaginable - uncomprehendable - androgynous However - we 3D humans experience God in two ways = Male Christ or female spirit
E = mc2 E is a concept beyound our imagination - energy is only the potential m = matter - we can experience the E as matter - m = the image of E c2 = E translated over a distance - Spirit - the spirit of E
Gen 1:1 God = the visible corporeal earth (Christ) and the invisible non-corporeal heavens (Spirit - the ether / matrix) Gen 1:27 - the image of God = male and female
But you need to argure the word Trinity
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2020 13:27:14 GMT -5
Dave just to clarify something in Greek you write:
Joh 14:16 And Jesus will pray the Father, and the Father shall give you another Comforter, that he (the Comforting Father) may abide with you for ever;
Is this correct? in the Greek?
Are you saying also the Pessitta is wrong, since there are no feminine words here in Hebrew? I would agree with this, in verse 16. What about verse 26 though?
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. (KJV)
What would have this verse been in Hebrew, Dave, not Greek?
Comforter in Hebrew is masculine? Ruwach is feminine. Ab is masculine
the "pronoun" shall teach you all things, refers to whom? comforter (the Father via the Holy Spirit) or ruwach directly, ie a she?
Dave: "How can your scripture be poetic? Word mean only one thing only – no poetry – no metaphors – no similes – no parables – only one word definitions Cherub chata
You are funny making fun of poetry in the Bible. Sure I agree King Tyre is written in poetry. Why did GOD invent poetry? The sinful pompous way King Tyre acted is a simile of another sinful Being, shown as cherub who also did chata.
Poetry is a picture based way of describing things difficult to understand using earth picture words we do understand. We call that a simile, or parallel.
For example you made a poetry mistake with equating GOD as matter.
Ge 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
It says GOD made mankind gender male and gender female in God's image. The word image implies something similar, but not quite the same. A simile if you will.
Ab or eloah or elohiym is not associated with zakar. Ruwach or shadday or elohiym is not associated with n@qebah.
Therefore GOD is not referenced as gender male or gender female.
However if you read my link more, you would see love has two words of love.
Ab or eloah or elohiym is associated with Ahab or Agape. Ruwach or shadday or elohiym is associated with Ahabuh or Philos.
There is some evidence the personalities of loving are different with each member.
Now of course, Jesus volunteered to add humanity (matter) to His divinity, thus His divinity (elohiym) is encapsulated by humanity (matter). This makes Jesus a saviour of creatures trapped in matter, to be eternally saved from matter that was cursed because of sin. If you look at all available verses, Jesus is also not referenced as zakar, but as our High Priest, we can assume he is masculine.
Notice when Elohiym created matter, the powers of Elohiym have to be outside of matter. So how does GOD reveal pictures to man in the Bible? God invents poetry , similes, to make it easier for us to understand.
spiritualsprings.org/ss-1570.htm
Here is one of 14 creation poems I wrote aged 17, a very long time ago, before I learned more about Bible stuff, showing child like simplicity in things:-
Day One
Mighty light in labour,
Dawns upon the earth,
Slowly she awakens,
Creation into renewed birth.
One humble insect,
On wing toiling long,
Diligently she gathers,
Her portion of nature's fuel,
Among coloured rainbows,
She sings buzzing song,
Obediently her faithful work,
Reflects His patterned rule.
No fruits of her work,
Are easy to see,
Let us question our role,
Of grace from Thee.
One humble servant,
Who sings Scripture's Word
Diligently he gathers,
His manna of Holy Fuel,
Faith outward active,
For he surrendered heard,
Responds without a question,
To our blessed Saviour's Rule.
For faith is nothing
Anyone can see,
We should be a worker,
In our Lord's mercy.
Written in English many years ago, each word has one meaning, but the words are also poetry and have spiritual added thoughts, or similes as well. How does this 17 year old lad see "Faith"? What does the phrase "Faith outward active," mean? What parallels are there of the person and his faith, is there to the bee and its faith? How is faith related to mercy and grace? Answer these questions using only the poem, in the mindset of the 17 year old writer.
Dave: "So your family has three gods? – how is that monotheistic?
Three strong authorities (el). One elohiym. One eloah Father. One source of love as power. One spring from which love flows.
Think of a battery. Three strong authorities. Cathode. Anode. Medium solution. Connect the community and flows LOVE from a single source. That's a good simile.
Rob: " God is not referenced anywhere in Scripture as gender male or gender female
Dave:"So in your religion – Jesus Christ was not God incarnate
The divinity part of Jesus, is not of matter, time or space. The humanity (matter) added to Jesus divinity, does make Jesus Christ as God incarnate, yes. The matter functions as humans function. Jesus was 100% Elohiym and 100% Human. This is an amazing feat, and amazing mystery. But great for us, because Jesus could save humans who are fallen because our matter has fallen since we have sinned.
DO you agree matter that is fallen is already subject to RA? Than how could GOD create matter both fallen (RA) and unfallen (TOV)? It would have already been sinful, and thus by your Gnostic remarks, the Holy Spirit doing a creative act on her own, is by definition doing a sin. Hence you have moved sinning to a new domain. If Jesus came to save us from fallen matter (RA) because humans did sinning, than it implies our matter must have been all TOV to begin with. Thus to sin or not sin, has to be a relationship thing, based on free will.
SO one mistake in one aspect of Hebrew, affects the entire Bible so to speak. Or do you have another definition of sin? Maybe the matter inside man does not fall into RA? Maybe the DNA and its propensities of RA doesn't exist? Maybe you have another explanation?
Notice the penalty of man upon sin, dying you shall die. What died immediately upon Adam's sin? At least four things:
1)Relationship to the Family... they became fearful of the Family 2)Relationship to Satan... they became friends, not foes. 3) Relationship to Holy Spirit... they became naked because Holy Spirit no longer covered them all over. 4) Relationship to humans...they blamed each other
What happen to mankind, once the relationship became severed? 1) Matter began to die daily... physical laws of RA came in ... decay of the DNA code came in 2) Satan was given more power to change the DNA code to suit him 3) The Holy Spirit experienced mischief from Satan, so the medium affect when into play, bringing the whole order of keeping the universe controlled strained 4) Self, Propensities from Self, came to affect the DNA via epi-genetics
All these things are RA, so it implies in the beginning all things were TOV. It also implies relationships, are created by GOD, founded on love, but also have risk, because creatures might choose not to respond to love.
Dave: "But you need to argue the word Trinity
Trinity is a word invented by Catholics, largely defined poorly in their website. GOD is a octopus with three arms, all of similar powers and personalities? GOD is three co-eternal persons in one Being?
Confusing to add a non Hebrew word into the Bible.
Ephesians 3:15,16 says Elohiym is a picture of family. That is easy to picture.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 18, 2020 20:33:09 GMT -5
Where do you get the comforting father from?
You are correct – the word ‘Comforter’ in Hebrew is masculine – and will always get a masculine pronoun! YES! Mandatory
The pronoun HE shall teach you – there is no feminine pronoun
If you substitute She – you are no longer linguistically correct - you are making it up - you are adding things to the text that do not exist
Gen 1:1 God bara himself into the all God is the all – everything is God – God is omnipresent – where can you hide from God? God-is –absolute – any expression that He is not is blasphemy
DUH – Adam, and Eve were Min-Body beings - Not quite the same – created from earth
Believe what you want – you twist scripture tyo mean whatever you want it to You see what you want to see Again – you tell me another verse does not mean what it says – cherub chata is
So here I am reading your web-site about the Godhead – and here comes another word game Why can’t you just answer a question without going off on word tangents
Take the cathode away and the battery no longer functions Take the anode away and the battery no longer functions Take the medium away and the battery no longer functions A battery as you define is a Trinity of parts in order for the whole to function
Only One God – period We can experience Him in two ways – as Christ or as Spirit – one male one female Just as Gen 1:1 and 1:27 tell us – but you do not accept scripture
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 13:45:14 GMT -5
It seems with any topic, we choose, we differ a lot.
Gen 1:1 God bara himself into the all God is the all – everything is God – God is omnipresent – where can you hide from God?
If GOD is in all matter, making GOD also of matter, than you have a model of GOD that is pantheism ? Correct?
You are correct – the word ‘Comforter’ in Hebrew is masculine – and will always get a masculine pronoun! YES! Mandatory
The pronoun HE shall teach you – there is no feminine pronoun
If you substitute She – you are no longer linguistically correct - you are making it up - you are adding things to the text that do not exist
Agreed, so why can't you agree with the findings?
Dave just to clarify something in Greek you write: Joh 14:16 And Jesus will pray the Father, and the Father shall give you another Comforter, that he (the Comforting Father) may abide with you for ever; Is this correct? in the Greek?
Where do you get the comforting father from?
From the term "comforter" a masculine term, must reference the Father, not the Spirit.
Unless you see Spirit as the female side of Father? And I suppose you see Christ as the masculine side of Father?
So there is no Father with you, only two ways of seeing Father as Christ or Spirit? Therefore Jesus was Father walking on earth?
Please explain yourself a little more.
Take the cathode away and the battery no longer functions Take the anode away and the battery no longer functions Take the medium away and the battery no longer functions
Correct. I suppose you think there is only one GOD, than how does this one divine Being, expressed into two ways, show relational loving? How is this not two parts Dave? Aren't you also playing word games?
If any of the members of this family are separated from each other, for long periods of time, we have "death defined".
Notice this verse:
Ps 22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?(KJV)
Ps 22:1 My Father, my Mother, why are you leaving me? why art thou so far from Yashuah, from the words of my roaring?
IMO, I would define death, as the separation of the members of the Godhead from each other. Thus for the Muslim, who claim Jesus, a GOD did not die, actually did experience dying, in the Biblical term of death.
Dave you do not follow this text:
Eph 3:14 ¶ For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
Elohiym is pictured as "Family".
One god viewed in two ways as male Christ or female Spirit, is not a picture of Family?
You also violate this verse:
Lu 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
You say female God termed spirit and highest is same Son born of this God uses Mary's egg, plus divine Y, to add humanity to Son.
You violate "born" and "son", and even "father", also "family"
The term "overshadow" means you require two objects to make shadows, one functions as light, the other functions to partially block that light, both are separate by distance and space.
Thus this verse clearly adds to Eph 3:15,16
Lu 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, (Holy Spirit as a mother) and the power of the Highest (the Father as a separate entity) shall overshadow thee: (two divine Beings required to make overshadow) therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee (born = parents) shall be called the Son of God.
Please explain these two verses (Eph 3:15,16 and Luke 1:35)in your view:
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Who gave? Spirit gave the Son? Or does it say Father gave His Son?
"that He gave His Son" explain that Dave?
Do you have a Father GOD or don't you? I do, but you don't? Please explain.
Why don't Jews consider Elohiym as a Family word? As Eph 3:15 says?
Family Judges. Family power. Araon and Moses were family with GOD. Abram offers his family son on a rock for sacrifice. Family god, the bull of gold, Israel made.
How many gods in a pagan family of the divine? three However Scripture does not like this view, condemned it. Why? Because the Family picture of GOD is not three gods, but one spring, one source of love.
Can GOD self-love? for me IMO, NO. Love is the action between members having differences in the way they love. You do not consider this. If GOD is solitary, how can GOD express love? It can't except as self love, as this is RA. SO you make your GOD into a sinner?
Job 40:1 ¶ Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said, 2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.
Explain the three Names of GOD here, Dave
YHWH Eloah Shadday
Ge 19:24 ¶ Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
Explain this Dave, two masculine YHWH both at same time, one in heaven, one on earth, simultaneously.
De 32:8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel. 9 For the LORD'S portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance. 10 He found him in a desert land, and in the waste howling wilderness; he led him about, he instructed him, he kept him as the apple of his eye. 11 As an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young, spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them, beareth them on her wings: 12 So the LORD alone did lead him, and there was no strange god with him. 13 He made him ride on the high places of the earth, that he might eat the increase of the fields; and he made him to suck honey out of the rock, and oil out of the flinty rock; 14 Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape. 15 ¶ But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.
GO through this passage, explaining all the members of GOD as you see them:
Most High LORD'S portion he instructed him, he kept him as the apple of his eye, As an eagle stirreth up her nest, beareth them on her wings, LORD alone, He made him ride, the cela rock, the flinty rock, the Rock of his salvation.
ReWrite this entire passage, placing all members identified:
I will do my theory of faith:
De 32:8 When the Father divided to the nations their inheritance, when the Father separated the sons of Adam, the Father set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel. 9 For the Father-YHWH's portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance. 10 The Father-YHWH found Israel in a desert land, and in the waste howling wilderness; Father-YHWH led Israel about, Father-YHWH instructed Israel, Father-YHWH kept Israel as the apple of his eye. 11 As an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young, spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them, beareth them on her wings: ( a poetry simile showing the Holy Spirit helps the Father in His work) 12 So the LORD-Jesus alone did lead Israel, and there was no strange god with him. 13 LORD-Jesus made him ride on the high places of the earth, that he might eat the increase of the fields; and he made him to suck honey out of the LORD-Jesus rock, and oil out of the Father-YHWH flinty rock; 14 Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape. 15 ¶ But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then Israel forsook the Father, which made him, and lightly esteemed the Father Rock of his Yeshua, (Jesus-YHWH).
Why do I change from Father-YHWH to Jesus-YHWH through this passage? I don't know, but I am honest with you. The word "alone" worries me.
I take it both cela and tsuwr rocks are masculine in Hebrew? I see three members of Family here, maybe you don't?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 22, 2020 14:07:08 GMT -5
Absolutely the opposite In the expression E=mc2 – tell me which part of the mc2 lack any of the E The mc2 is 100% E – just in a different form
E – is a potential – no man can interact with the E – because E is not measurable The measureable aspect of E is the mc2 – either as m or as c2 – matter or distance/time E = space/time – one visible and one invisible No man can experience the E – only its effect
I have a Sunday school lesson called the riddle steel I own a 12th century replica sword – it weighs 14 ponds I have never met a man or boy that didn’t want to swing it about Is it real I ask? – the answer is of course – yes Is it smooth I ask – the answer is – yes My response – no it is not smooth – in fact if you magnified the surface with an electron microscope you would see mountain ranges of molecular groups. What is a molecule – a collection of atom loosely held together by chemical bonds at distance What are atom – sub atomic parts separated by distance In fact – Rutherford proved that 99.99% of each atom is nothing more than empty space What is each sub atomic particle composed of – they are best described as balls of E (energy)
So the very real visible corporeal thing – is built upon the invisible non-corporeal non-thing which is nothing more than quantum packets of E
What is that E – it is the electromagnetic spectrum that sustains all matter – the ether – the matrix E – that unmeasurable – unknowable non-thing can only be observed in two ways M = visible – corporeal reality C2 – the distance – E at distance - the impact of that E at distance – the invisible suatainer
Example – Light – what is the LIGHT – it is packets of E traveling through a distance (space) – it is a wave Can we measure it – no How do we measure it – we can only observe its interaction with corporeal reality
Can any man see God – NO! – this was explained to Moses by God Himself But – Moses was allow to experience the ‘Glory” of God – the Spirit – the HS Man also interacts with Christ as a man – 3D corporeal Both God – HS = the spirit of God at distance – Christ the image of God
John 1:1-4 – The Word made the ALL – through the Word – by the Word So tell me where in your reality does the Word not exist
NO – you are not correct – you are reading words into the text
Your father wanted you to learn – so your father gave you a dictionary – so that while you are away from school your father the dictionary can help you
You father TOM wanted you to learn – so he sent you a tutor name FRANK – so in the future your father FRANK can help you at distance
Your father wanted to help you – so he gave you a car – so in the future your father the car can help you.
You are mixing theology with linguistics – as far as the language goes – your translation is 100% in error – the Greek does not say what you want it to
I agree – God = HS = the Comforter
Regardless of my ‘belief’ - my understanding – my theology – the your translation of what the Greek says – is in error
Your heaven only contains God My family in heaven contains millions of beings – all types of angels and archon All from God – all children of God all the family of God
How? I really do not get you - You limit God abilities – you anthropomorphize God
Easy answer – because the word elohiym = more than just God – it represent a much bigger reality than you will accept = heavenly being – God – the HS – an all the angels and even the archon
You can defend this position if you want to – I do not have 3 Gods – I only have a mono-theistic God that man can only perceive as Christ or HS – a duality of nature – male and female
I just say Trinity – but you struggle with words
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 16:18:43 GMT -5
Nice comments Dave on E=mc2
Joh 14:16 And Jesus will pray the Father, and the Father shall give you another Comforter, that he (the Holy Spirit) may abide with you for ever;
So is this your understanding of the pronoun than? as Greek requires?
This make the Holy Spirit a "he' rather than a "she"? Explain.
Dave: "My family in heaven contains millions of beings – all types of angels and archon All from God – all children of God all the family of God
Isn't this a secular meaning of "Family", are there father angels, mother angels and son angels, are there father archons, mother archons and son archons?
To me "family" means "parents" and "children". You suggesting "Family" is just a large gathering of creatures under GOD. Doesn't the word "church" or "assembly" mean this already?
Dave: "You can defend this position if you want to – I do not have 3 Gods – I only have a mono-theistic God that man can only perceive as Christ or HS – a duality of nature – male and female
Would Jews see your mono-theistic God as two gods, Jesus and HS ? Don't you have a Father? is Jesus your Father?
Joh 17:1 ¶ These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
SO Jesus is praying to the HS as a Father?
You made no comments on my post:
Job 40:1 ¶ Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said, 2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.
Explain the three Names of GOD here, Dave
YHWH Eloah Shadday
Ge 19:24 ¶ Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
Explain this Dave, two masculine YHWH both at same time, one in heaven, one on earth, simultaneously.
Jews would argue against your ideas of GOD in two ways. Jews see spirit as wind, not an entity of GOD anyway. Am I correct in saying this? Jews only see one YHWH, and nothing else but one GOD.
Dr Kim who viewed Mt Sinai says from afar off it is seen as one peak, but as you get closer the peak becomes two peaks. All charred still in burnt rocks.
Gordon whose study of ELohiym, does like 6 references from thousand's that make ELohiym a plural word, also plural in sentence. He ignores such sentences. Should Jews do this?
Da 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Whose Ancient of Days, and the Jesus the angels brought before HIM?
(1) Ge 20:13 And it came to pass, when ELOHIM (with plural verb) caused me to wander from my father's house, that I said unto her, This is thy kindness which thou shalt shew unto me; at every place whither we shall come, say of me, He is my brother.
"So contrary to the expected rule of Elohim getting a singular verb, here Elohim gets a plural verb. Because of this plural verb, we could literally translate this phrase "gods caused me to wander". From this verse alone it indeed appears that Abraham worshipped multiple gods whom he believed had caused him to wander from his father's house. However, this hardly fits the overall picture."
Gordon has a theory of faith that says the majority of passages over rules the meaning of minor problem ones, whereas a true Bible scholar must fit all Bible contexts into a single overall picture...Every Bible context must make sense. It seems even Abraham knew Elohim meant a "Heavenly kind of powers".
(2)Ge 35:7 And he built there an altar, and called the place Elbethel: because there ELOHIM (with plural verb) appeared unto him, when he fled from the face of his brother.
" But the basic question still remains. Why are there these three instances in the Tanach where Elohim receives a plural verb?"
(3)2Sa 7:23 And what one nation in the earth is like thy people, even like Israel, whom ELOHIM went to redeem for a people to himself, and to make him a name, and to do for you great things and terrible, for thy land, before thy people, which thou redeemedst to thee from Egypt, from the nations and their ELOHIM's (with plural verb)?
"Let us remember that the rule of Elohim receiving a singular verb does actually work in some 2000 instances and the three verses just mentioned are the only exceptions in the entire Tanach. ...Could it be that these three anomalous verses hint at some great mystery about the paradoxical and contradictory nature of God? Or is there a much simpler, linguistic explanation?"
"Gordon tests these three exception with the golden calf, passage where ELOHIM is used for an idol in a plural case.
Ex 32:4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
But Gordon says the calf was a single calf idol that was called ELOHIM. He asks the question :
"Why would the Israelites call a single calf "gods"?
Well what did the calf represent? Since they were of Egypt, they would have made an Egyptian idol.
Here near the Mount Sinai region we see Hebrew people who carved Egyptian bulls.
Read my study of Gordon assessment of ELohiym, if you want:
spiritualsprings.org/ss-996.htm
You cannot say you have a monotheistic GOD viewed in two ways. Jews would call this two gods.
No different to mine:
I have a monotheistic GOD viewed in three ways. Jews would call this three gods.
IMO the three members cannot be independent from each other, love requires they connect as unity, to make love flow, hence one source of love.
So your idea of 2 ways, mine of 3 ways, we both differ from Jews. At least mine follows Ephesians 3:15, scripture, ie families have a minimum of 3 members. A family of 2 members is not normal.
Not referring to secular meaning, but true meaning of family.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 24, 2020 23:43:17 GMT -5
You really do not understand the translation process You say this makes the Holy Spirit a ‘he’ - And you are absolutely incorrect All this means is that the Comforter is a masculine noun – to read anything more into the Greek sentence – is wrong – in Error – it is a word game that is not implied by the text Here is your word game - you are a child and are in need Your father sends your mother to you as a comfortorer - to be your comfortorer using only this sentence - prove to me that your mother is another man - prove to me that your mother is male How do you make the leap from one family with one Father and one Mother to mother angels and father angels One Father – One Mother – One Son – then the rest of the children of the Lord – all the way down to you and me - DUH! OK – let me explain this to you yet again Jesus is the Image of the Father – HS is the Spirit of the Father Jewish Kabbalah As God Looks down upon the 10 dimensions – He does it directly – by the Right Hand – or by the Left Hand As man looks back up at the God head – we can experience Him in 3 ways – Directly – by the Right Hand or by the Left Hand PS – the Right Hand is Male and the Left Hand is Female | |
WHAT – are these serious question? Jesus was / is God incarnate walking on earth Jesus was praying to the Creator in Heaven beyond this 3D realm God in Heaven DUH YHWY is always masculine If you ask how can God be in two places at once – I will not answer n- because God can do anything He Wills – it is His Creation and He makes the rule – you do not There is only one YHWY – correct Spirit can be referred to as the wind- because it is the breath MY Understanding Soul = locality Spirit = the expression of that soul at a distance God is a singularity – that is not locatable That singularity expanded – by expressing itself at distance – expansion – invisible ether / matrix / “Spirit of God” that sustains the ALL As 3D humans we also are able to perceive God incarnate – as Jesus Christ E = an undefinable potential that is all and contains all and is not locatable mc 2 = 100% E but it has been TRANSMUTED (visible) or TRANSLATED (invisible) over a distance So Jesus Christ was not God incarnated Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2020 13:31:41 GMT -5
Sorry to hear you're with flu Dave, hope you and your family get better soon. My prayers and consideration go to you and your family.
Dave:" Here is your word game - you are a child and are in need Your father sends your mother to you as a comforter - to be your comforter using only this sentence - prove to me that your mother is another man - prove to me that your mother is male
So comforter is masculine, I get that. The Father as GOD sends us the Holy Spirit, a female representation of the Father as GOD. (This is how you see this?)
Joh 14:16 And Jesus will pray the Father, and the Father shall give you another Comforter, that he (the COMFORTER) may abide with you for ever;
So is this your understanding of the pronoun than? as Greek requires?
SO translate this without using the pronouns for me please?
Jesus spoke to his disciples and said the Father-GOD will send another way to represent GOD, a second Comforter (the Holy Spirit) so that the Father-GOD is represented in this way of loving also, abiding with you forever.
How did this go?
You gave me a light bulb moment:
Dave: "As man looks back up at the God head – we can experience Him in 3 ways – Directly – by the Right Hand or by the Left Hand PS – the Right Hand is Male and the Left Hand is Female
So Mankind looks via two pathways of love, expressed, to view the Father GOD as the source of love, via the female love of the Holy Spirit, or via the male love of Jesus, our Saviour.
So the Father becomes the one true source of love. Is this how you see things?
Why don't you see the Holy Spirit and Jesus, as independent co-eternal Beings, like earthly families are, a love expressed in three persons, rather than one person, the Father-GOD?
Anyway I can't find too many texts one way or the other, but your theory of faith is interesting read. Thanks for the share.
Shalom my friend.
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Post by Dave on Feb 25, 2020 21:18:10 GMT -5
Greek is very specific – This is a conditional statement – I will pray THAT Exact translation The Father shall give you a Comforter So that – The Father may abide with you forever John 1:1-4 one Word – 3 forms In the beginning there was only the WORD – God the Father The word was God – the image of God / Christ The Word was with God – implies distance / God at distance - Spirit E=mc2 There is only one E in 3 forms E – is not measurable – undefinable – the best science can do = potential E can only be measured by man as the m or the c2 E can only be experienced / perceived by man as the m or the c2 Does m have the same properties as c2, or E – NO! Does c2 have the same properties as m, or E – NO! Does m or C2 have the same properties as each other – NO! Ponder a quantum gameGen 1:1 E (bara – fattened / expanded / exploded) into m (which is visible corporeal reality) and c2 (distance / time / invisible spirit / heavens (pl)) Bara = fatten is important for me – because God did not create something from nothing – instead he became creation – God is the ALL Look at corporeal creation – the simplest atom = hydrogen Positive and Negative existing in the electromagnetic spectrum of quantum E The ether/ matrix / medium + one positive + one negative Totality + TOV + RA God = male / female Gen 1:27 God = visible + invisible Gen 1:1 The atom is composed of sub-atomic particles – in 3 forms One Positive + one Negative + one Neutral Crack each of these particles open and you find another trinity of quarks 3 quarks per sub-atomic particle – two always spin in unison – one always spins opposite Two spin in unison – Father and Son, who is the image of the Father – one spins opposite HS If Father and Son = TOV – what is the extreme opposite? – RA
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2020 12:42:35 GMT -5
Your presentation was fascinating Dave. I respect your view. It is different to mine, but I respect your view.
I would not label the Up quark as TOV (functional) and the Down quark as RA (dysfunctional), because I see entire atom, as functional. IMO you have applied the wrong Hebrew concepts on this things. To me TOV and RA, apply to relationships, rather than characteristics of GOD.
I use two other Hebrew words for a character of GOD, ie. LOVE There is Ahab, the provider kind of love And there Ahabuah , the responder kind of love
Since GOD is love, and since man has no mathematics for love, equating it to Energy, I do not attempt to fathom it's domain. Love is like electricity or energy and thus able to function as a power, but I have seen no maths explaining love so simply.
I see the Up quark as a "provider" and the Down Quark as a "responder".
These are functional differences of love in action. If you separate these functional parts of love, you get dysfunctional releases of energy. Similar to why a divorce causes emotional outbursts of energy.
I used to teach Science Chemistry to kids, and I divided the boy atoms from girl atoms, and valency is the bride price. Boy atoms provide electron's and Girl atoms receive electrons, or respond.
The periodic table should have 7 rows, a square of elements, some we do not know as yet. It is fascinating to study such things, as you present. You did a great job here. Thank you.
Shalom
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2020 12:48:17 GMT -5
Dave:" Greek is very specific – This is a conditional statement – I will pray THAT Exact translation The Father shall give you a Comforter So that – The Father may abide with you forever.
Yes . That is how I view the translation also. Thanks for your conformation on this.
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Post by Dave on Feb 27, 2020 8:43:30 GMT -5
WHAT? – where did I say anything like this? I did not label anything. All I said is: Rom 1:20 – Psa 19:1 – anywhere I look – I see the Creator Gen 1:1 is a trinity Gen 1:27 is a trinity An atom is a trinity Each sub-atomic component is a trinity Smash a sub-atomic component and the fraction no longer continue to exist in our reality This was a real issue for physics – God’s Laws suggest that – Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it is only translated or transmuted – yet many of sub-atomic fraction behave exactly as if the disappear into nothingness – ceases to exist String theory is a mathematical expression of these sub-atomic fractions Interestingly enough the math predated atom smashing by 250 years The math says – these sub-atomic fraction do continue to exist, but have moved into another dimension God’s Law on the conservation of energy and matter is correct – but under tremendous energy levels – energy or matter can be translated or transmuted into another dimension The math says – there could be a total of 10 dimensions of space, or 27, 164, 1368, etc The Book of Creation (Kabbalah scripture) say 10 is the number, not 9, not 11, but 10 is the number of creation and the 22 Hebrew letters are its construct | Our reality is built upon atoms that exist in a trinity Each atom is a trinity of components – each component a trinity Go even smaller in scale and current science suggest 10 dimensions of space Ancient Jewish Kabbalah says 10 Speriots How did Jewish Kabbalah know all this before modern science? |
The point is all about measurability by man Man is 3D and uses 3D tools to understand his 3D uni-verse Once that sub-atomic fraction entered a dimension (of a different energy level) we lose the tool and the definitions to measure the thing Just like a photon – we can only infer the wave function – we can only measure the photon as it interacts with another measurable thing (a 3D thing) Eric Weinstein (Ashkenazi Jew) is famous for his work on a Unified Field Theory He says the issue with finding a unifying math is the half the math exist in these other dimensions Angels – are measurable thing when in 3D space – we see them as 3D and are able to measures them as 3D – once the being move into a higher dimension – the only thing that changes is man’s ability to measure (describe) Periodic table – 3D atoms arranged in 7 levels of energy = 10D total Hebrew – 3D + 7 Heavens = 10D total Islam – 3D + 7 heavens = 10D total Rom 1:20 – Psa 19:1 – I see Him everywhere / anywhere When we first started – I asked you to watch David Ike – I see theology / Him everywhere / anywhere
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2020 13:55:51 GMT -5
Very interesting to read your ideas Dave. Thank you for the share.
You didn't like my idea of provider/responder concept of love, in the sub atomic world?
Is this idea not everywhere? Everything has "provider/responder concepts", ie two provider atoms (H) and one responder atom (O) makes water, a family molecule of love, that is a universal solvent.
Sorry, you didn't label quarks as Tov and Ra, But I see something here, and see it differently to your view? Just IMO.
Shalom
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