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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2020 15:13:27 GMT -5
Ancient Hebrew does have vowels, some letters doubled as vowels and consonants.
AB for example is vowel followed by consonant, means "provider"
See spiritualsprings.org/ss-1392.htm
Notice the original pictographs
The meaning is "The strong caring Authority. The Secure Being Behold, flows"
Notice we have two masculine providers in elohiym, as Jeff defines as elohiym powers.
The Father's flow of love (singular) flows via His Son. That's one way to read text.
Another meaning:
The strong authority is secure . Behold the Father, whose power flows:
Here we see the Father only.
In Ephesian 3:15,16 this term is given a new picture, of family powers that flow.
shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 6, 2020 22:56:27 GMT -5
Ancient Hebrew does have vowels, some letters doubled as vowels and consonants. Original Hebrew has no vowel markings - cantillation marks – punctuation – paragraph breaks or verse numbering students.wts.edu/resources/alangroves/grovesprojects.htmlWLC Westminster Leningrad Codex“This text began as an electronic transcription by Whitaker and Parunak of the 1983 printed edition of Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia (BHS). The transcription is called the Michigan-Claremont electronic text and was archived at the Oxford Text Archive (OTA) in 1987. Since that time, the text has been modified to conform to the photo-facsimile of the Leningrad Codex, Firkovich B19A, residing at the Russian National Library, St. Petersberg; hence the change of name. This version contains all 6 of the textual elements of the OTA document: consonants, vowels, cantillation marks, "paragraph" (pe, samekh) markers, and ketib-qere variants. Morphological divisions have been added.
The BHS so-called "paragraph" markers (pe and samekh) do not actually occur in the Leningrad Codex. The editors of BHS use them to indicate open space deliberately left blank by the scribe. Pe ("open" paragraph) represents a space between verses, where the new verse begins on a new column line. This represents a major section of the text. Samekh ("closed" paragraph) represents a space of less than a line between verses. This is understood to be a subdivision of the corresponding "open" section. Since these markers represent an actual physical feature of the text, they have been retained.
The WLC source is maintained by the Westminster Hebrew Institute, Philadelphia, PA (http://www.wts.edu/resources/alangroves/grovesprojects.html). The main Hebrew text in ISA, the "WLC", has no vowels or cantillation, but in the sublinear "WLC_v" the vowels are included.”If the original was without – and the common version with Does not the Rabbi adding this to the original text have the ability to alter / misunderstand ? Hebrew is the mother of all languages for a reason, as its unspoiled mostly than other languages. Seriously – I know what you are trying to say – Look at your statement here – you know this is not true – you are using an exaggeration to make a point – it does not carry academic weight Seriously – I know what you are trying to say – Look at your statement here – you know this is not true – you are using an exaggeration to make a point – it does not carry academic weight
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2020 16:02:55 GMT -5
You didn't read my links, or comment on my material. You posted your own scholarly stuff. I suggest you read Jeff Benner for a few hours and read my studies which flow from his results. spiritualsprings.org/ss-1519.htmDetailed look at Scripture, how it came to be. spiritualsprings.org/ss-5.htmIntro in Hebrew, where it came from spiritualsprings.org/ss-1093.htmLook at Jeff Benner things briefly spiritualsprings.org/ss-1391.htmMy view of Ancient Hebrew pictograph script Comment on any of these webpages specifically. I would be most appreciative if you did, cause I am not sure what others think. Ancient Hebrew research is very new...many Jews question it... If your interested in Hebrew Edenics, google it of ask Jeff Benner. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 7, 2020 17:37:38 GMT -5
I did look at the link provided I have looked some more -- If you want me to answer honestly I willWhy – to have ownership of the words – to have an elevated sense of ownership If you goal was to spread the Gospel – you would make it as palatable as possible to you fellow man Instead you make it something complicated that only you can understand properly This is exactly the same argument Rome made about the Latin Vulgate for 1500 years Luther said – Rome was arrogant and wrong Because we try to do it from a book – this is a believing Christian – trying to be Christian by the book Rather – we should do it by the spirit – this is the point of Gnosticism WOW – you really do not believe in the Gift of the Spirit – Act 2:1 When the day of Shavuot had come, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And tongues like fire spreading out appeared to them and settled on each one of them. 4 They were all filled with the Ruach ha-Kodesh and began to speak in other tongues as the Ruach enabled them to speak out. 5 Now Jewish people were staying in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6 And when this sound came, the crowd gathered. They were bewildered, because each was hearing them speaking in his own language. Word games Shakespeare said – What’s in a name? A Rose by any other name would still smell just as sweet. Nice presentation of the Chinese – I also make a similar presentationWe already see that you fail you own precept This is called a false correlation Everyone who has the flu has an elevated temperature Therefore everyone who has an elevated temperature has the flu – right = NO Everyone who has AIDS is HIV infected – true Therefore everyone who has HIV develops AIDS – false www.britannica.com/biography/Flavius-Josephus - Flavius Josephus was born of an aristocratic priestly family in Jerusalem. Therefore – Josephus had access to Temple Hebrew – both reading and writing - true (Wiki) Antiquities of the Jews (is a 20-volume historiographical work, written in Greek, Josephus was not accustomed to speaking Greek language – OK Does this mean the common language of the lay person in Palestine was Hebrew – NO The common lay person in Palestine did not read or write – they went to Temple to hear it read allowed This does not mean that the common spoken language in the area was NOT Arabic – NO It is a false correlation Here is a better correlation – Josephus went to a lot of trouble to write in Greek – why? Because it was the language of law – language of commerce – language of accurate communication – between all the peoples of the land – This correlates very well with the fact that the agl was agl OK – you asked me to evaluate your workLet’s say I am interested in what you have to teach Let’s say I met you today and you witnessed to me – and I am interested – so I take your advice and open your web-page and begin to study Within the first few paragraphs I read My next reaction is to STOP READING – and just forget youYou asked once – how to witness to people 1- do not feed them a bunch of religious vocabulary no one understands but yourself 2- do not lie to them(Wiki) - In the late 330s BCE, Alexander the Great conquered the region, during his six-year Macedonian conquest of the empire of Darius III of Persia. (Wiki) - the Hebrew Torah was translated into Greek at the request of Ptolemy II Philadelphus (285–247 BCE)
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Post by Dave on Feb 10, 2020 14:21:19 GMT -5
I am sorry if I offened you - I spoke to you as a friend - truthfully
I have worked with a very educated crowd for years - I learned the hard way long ago - if my facts are not correct, they will take the greatest pleasure pointing out my 'lack of knowledge.'
Once they have discovered I was wrong about anything - it make the entire rest of my message uneducated. I do it myself - you asked me to watch Walter Veith - I did Within a few minutes of him completely misrepesenting the Jewish Kabbalah - I just couldn't watch anymore.
Walter Veith was not sorting out the truth - he was promoting an adgenda
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2020 16:51:00 GMT -5
I See.
I am not quite like that, I read people's stuff and ask them to clarify things, and we journey together.
So if I am a babe journeying through getting facts arranged, does one have to be absolutely correct over history, something in the past?
We do know Alexander the Great was a author of great changes to the lands, thus causing his Greek culture to follow. So the details are wrong a little here and there. Does this really matter? When you simplify for general public, details have to go. It's not lying, you're leaving details out for a reason.
Would you be happy with this?
"300BC When Alexander the Great conquered Jerusalem, he spared the city because of the special messages about himself the high priest showed him in the Hebrew Scriptures. After Alexander, Ptolemy II, ordered a translation of the Hebrew Bible into the Greek language. So 70 Jewish scholars wrote the Septuagint, the first Greek copy of the Bible, was completed around 100 BC. This work is also known as the LXX, and is used as the major tool for bridging the New Testament Greek back to original Hebrew. The New Testament writers used the LXX to translate the New Testament Hebrew into a New Testament Greek."
Regarding history, all writers including myself write with prejudice. We have a world view, and we filter history through that world view. I hope that is a little better, is so will upload the changes to the website.
Your words do have emotional overtones, if I write things wrong because I am a babe, just say so and tell me, where they are. Our website is so big, I find it hard to find where you are. Also I read this from Jeff Benner 10 years ago, so all my thoughts come from him, only he has changed his website too. Alas things get pickled. It's near impossible to verify things from so long ago.
You seem to think as a SDA other SDA people agree with me? No. There is no SDA person that I know of agrees with me, on meaning of faith, Steps to Christ in Bible, Ancient Hebrew, etc, etc. I am really all alone, hence why I often doubt myself when dealing with mockers, even from my own Church faith.
You also seem to think members have to believe in Ellen White upon baptism, maybe they do pretend, but many people I hear preaching today, no longer see Ellen White as anything, sadly she is hardly even quoted in our Sabbath School Classes, by the publishers of our Church.
So I don't wish to go into length over 1948 prophecies with Israel. I don't have anything to say about it. All I read is there is a new city in heaven, coming down soon for us unto the earth.
You say I should write less complex. Einstein said to make things simple but not simpler. I try to keep things simple. In our world of IPads, people don't read anymore, they like pictures and few words. That's a tall order. How would you write salvation in 50 words or less, and cover everything?
It's very rainy here, every day, very hard for signals to upload, we have had over 75mm rain already, and still raining, been doing so all week. So I will try now. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 13, 2020 18:09:20 GMT -5
Do you know what the DARE program is? In America, for years DARE law enforcement officers would come to school to teach children about drugs? It was a complete failure! WHY? Because the children did not believe the officers. The program teaches that if you smoke pot – next you will be doing cocaine or worse and end up dead in a gutter.
Yet ½ the kids knew someone who smokes pot every day and is normal. Mon and dad smoke pot – uncles smoke pot – every scary thing the law enforcement offer said just sounded like garbage – a lie – an agenda they want you to accept and believe. So, when the offers start talking about the dangers of heroin – the children had already stopped listening.
Ever take your car to a garage for repair – would you leave it with a mechanic that didn’t know what he was saying?
Have you ever had surgery? Would you let a doctor cut on you that miss-stated the facts and accepted fables over evidence??
You have a web-site dedicated to scripture – dedicated to the LORD and SALVATION The truth required is much greater than a car mechanic or a doctor – do you think the public searching for truth will overlook error and say – what does it matter if the details are wrong
You didn’t leave out a detail – you misrepresented the current academic view
I am not an expert historian – but knew enough to feel error in your post True – Alexander took Palestine 332- 333BC True – because of Alexander Greek officially replaced Hebrew as the text of business and record True- The Torah was translated into Greek – 3rd century BC (most likely in Palestine) True – over 120 years later Ptolemy commissioned the complete Tanak to be translated True – Ptolemy was the Pharaoh (King) of Egypt and The LXX was created for Egyptian Jews 2nd century BC True – the expression LXX comes from the Egyptian version 120 years after Alaxander True – this information comes from the Letter of Aresti – which is not completely factual True - the Greek of the Torah is older than the Greek of the rest of the Tanak
Why did Egyptian Jews need a Greek Tanak? – because they spoke Greek as a common language Hebrew became the language of study within the temple – not the spoken language on the street Who is Ptolemy? – There are 5 or 6 to pick from
Alexander is discussed in the Talmud and Midrash as well as Maccabees
The Ten Questions of Alexander to the Sages of the South (Tamid, 31b et seq.): Alexander's Journey to the Regions of Darkness (Tamid, 32a): Alexander at the Gate of Paradise; the Eye: The Talmud (Tamid, 32b) Alexander's Ascent into the Air (Yer. 'Ab. Zarah, iii. 42c; Num. R. xiii.): Alexander's Descent into the Sea (Ps. R. 103; compare Pseudo-Callisthenes, II. xxxviii.):
The HS should be your only guide – not Jeff Brenner or Ellen White The words of men never means more that scripture
Psa 118:8 (KJV) It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. Psa 118:8 (TLV) It is better to take refuge in Adonai than to trust in man.
Difficulty does not justify inaccuracy – if presented as fact
It is required by the 28 Fundamental Beliefs of the SDA listed by the church And sadly you seem to support her more than your own church affiliation
Is walking in the faith supposed to make you feel alone? Why don’t you want to belong to the family of Christ – the Body of Christ Why do you doubt yourself = doesn’t your Kabbalah add up? Gnostic theology supports the agl 100% Gnostic theology supports the ahl 100% Gnostic theology does not contradict itself
Sure I can find a word to argue about Sure I can find an area that just might be poorly translated Sure I can find concepts that differ than man-made religions view Is that how I learn from a text?
All of scripture does not support you view of satan having free will or being anti-God Yet you refuse to accept it because you have two words in one verse But if I suggest those two words were a metaphor for the Chief Archon – you resist, because it upsets your Kabbalah
Why do so many people have to be wrong – Why do the Jews have to be wrong So you can be correct?
Your study of Hebrew at a seemingly expert level – doesn’t seem to add to the depth of Christian Kabbalah – but take it in a different direction of specificity for experts only
Because it makes Ellen White nothing more than a human who can be wrong
I think the End-of-Days scenario fits global population, global consumption, global unrest, and global pollution – 1948 Israel, 1947 Nag Hammadi, 1948 Dead Sea Scrolls, 1952 Bretton–Woods agreement + current events are really compelling. If not for me – at least my children will experience a global economic downturn and that will cause war like never before – coming in their generation for sure
For the first time - we are living beyound the carrying capacity of our planet For the first time - all the major players in the End-of-Days have the ability to destroy the world For the first time - science is obviouse in Rom 1 - science talks of intelligent design - science is attempting to build a TOWER - reaching for the heavens - at least the Moon and Mars - and for the first time - science is attempting to open a doorway into another dimension
Is it going to be the Biblical end times? – It will certainly be a TRIBULATION for the unprepared Physically and spiritually
Just think as the world moves more and more to electricfiation - EV Semi-Trucks, EV Cars, the www and satilite cell phones - 90 days without electricity and only 10% of us will still be alive Imagine NY City with no food or water
Psa 19:2 The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky shows His handiwork.
Rom 1:20 His invisible attributes—His eternal power and His divine nature—have been clearly seen ever since the creation of the world, being understood through the things that have been made. So people are without excuse—
Fact - Science calls it Intelligent Design Fact – enormous evidence to a spiritual realm – Ghost, shadow people, interdimensional visitation, clairvoyance, Nostradamus, Edgar Casey, Jean Dixon, UFOs who have been alongside of man since ancient astronauts days
The fulfillment of Biblical prophesy Why dose scripture say God delivered Israel from Egypt in such a dramatic way? So the Whole world will see and know that God of Israel is the One True God 1948 Israel – current events – the anti-Christian position of Islam Why does scripture say the Jews would be gathered from far away nation to the home land AND – against all odds turn it into a lush garden and defend it against the entire world So the Whole world will see and know that God of Israel is the One True God
The Resurrection of Jesus Christ – is proof of this spiritual realm and our afterlife
Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth on me, though he die, yet shall he live;
Rom 10:9 For if you confess with your mouth that Yeshua is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart it is believed for righteousness, and with the mouth it is confessed for salvation.
Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: A broken and a contrite heart, …
With the heart it is believed – not the mind – not the intellect – not common sense – not human reasoning – but with the heart it is believed Gnostic say – belief vrs gnosis / beliefs can change – gnosis is fact
Php 1:6 being confident of this very thing, that he who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ:
being confident – in what you know / gnosis How can you be confident in something if you are not absolutely sure of it? You must walk in your faith – if you stop and start over all the time because you think you must keep doing ‘things’ to maintain your salvation – then you are not confident / trusting of your salvation – you doubt
Does this make us perfect – absolutely not – we are still the animal our DNA encoded? Jesus came and lived as an animal and died like an animal - God knows we are animal Paul admitted his struggles with his flesh – and I sure admit mine
As a church goer – I went through a phase where I felt guilty before the Lord Try standing up front behind a pulpit when Becky is deliberately flashing her panties at you I really understand Joyce Meyers take on ‘JUST PRAYERS’ – if you just forgive me - an endless appology
I have aged and no longer carry guilt - guilt has become more of a personal shame between me and the Lord. Which mandates PRAISE for His grace, PRAISE for His Son, PRAISE for the gift Praise God in all things – even the temptations – even the hardships Thank you God for kicking my ass – Thank you for making it so obvious that I am undeserving
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2020 17:52:19 GMT -5
You write humbly and well Dave, I pray and hope GOD overlooks your faults and accepts you by the light you live by.
Does it matter if we have differences in theology? What does of one accord mean?
When Jesus said, I have many more things to tell you, but you cannot bear them now, seems to suggest the disciples did not know all things, did they need to?
Dave: "You didn’t leave out a detail – you misrepresented the current academic view
The mistake is only with historical past, science cannot really verify the past, because the past cannot be observed or verified by experiment, one can read accounts, see artefacts etc, but people can take different worldviews.
If Alexander was taught to read Hebrew as a youth, than to me that makes Alexander the author and authority of all things from the Greek world coming to the entire world. It doesn't matter if others after him did this or that, what matters is Alexander started the Greek invasion, the universal language came in.
Modern Jews and scholars today do not say David had a palace in Jerusalem, nor that Solomon truly existed. They don't really believe the OT as historical facts. And you say the scholars have their historical facts correct?
Have a listen to Don Patton videos on this:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki1FI8u7jTs
1hour 36 minutes. Gives you real insight into history and the way Jewish scholars try to cover up history. And how Don Patton tries to uncover history.
So in my child like state, I wanted to make a simple assessment of Alexander and his affect on Hebrew, with Greek. The so called finer details do not really matter.
You make some amazing claims Dave in your reply:
Rob: "You seem to think as a SDA other SDA people agree with me? No. There is no SDA person that I know of agrees with me, on meaning of faith, Steps to Christ in Bible, Ancient Hebrew, etc, etc. I am really all alone, hence why I often doubt myself when dealing with mockers, even from my own Church faith.
Is walking in the faith supposed to make you feel alone? Why don’t you want to belong to the family of Christ – the Body of Christ Why do you doubt yourself = doesn’t your Kabbalah add up? Gnostic theology supports the agl 100% Gnostic theology supports the ahl 100% Gnostic theology does not contradict itself
Where do I find this "Gnostic theology does not contradict itself" ? Really? I studied the whole of many books, and found dozens of errors with Gnostic writings against the Hebrew.
Dave: "Gnostic theology supports the ahl 100%.
Really? Of the threads you have selected, mostly OK. Overall the support is poor.
We did an extensive study of "RA" and "SATAN", and your views do not follow Hebrew views of these words. You say the few verses I showed you don't matter.
You have no idea of how "war in heaven" started or why? You cannot explain why GOD created "RA" in the first place?
It wouldn't matter what Hebrew word we study, you would disagree. We have touched on "Nephesh" and "ruwach" and we still disagree with the Hebrew verses.
We have also touched on the Greek words too, such as "kathestemi", which in my simple child like understanding see this word meaning "to establish or set up a 'ruler' who 'rules'."
I trust and support my Hebrew English translator Ellen White, because her English makes sense in the Hebrew I have studied. But you did not study my studies of her authority as a prophetess.
spiritualsprings.org/ss-1061.htm
I have also studied Martin Luther as a source of prophetic authority.
spiritualsprings.org/ss-1381.htm
Now if I was to study Gnostic Writings as a source of prophetic authority, which books are inspired Dave? If any of them as a whole? See my problem. I did a study of the Wisdom of Pistis, and it failed miserably against the Hebrew.
I read the OT and NT as a whole, and find the entire of them inspired, yet you point out the Roman edits, and little historical facts you don't like, like the census in Luke, etc. Rather show me errors in the Hebrew as messages about GOD, not human typos or human history.
You point out Israel in 1948 as prophecy with a third temple coming soon, and dead sea getting fresh water now, all interesting, and I respect your views. But you also know, Jesus is making us a mansion, in a brand new city, in heaven. That is coming to where the old Jerusalem is now, from Mt Olives to Dead Sea, a huge city built in heaven, ready to descend on the earth. Does the Bible talk about this? yes
How you can follow a GOD of love and hate, that expects you to follow love only and disdain the RA, I cannot fathom. It removes the source of RA, the authority where the doing of RA comes from. GOD does not do RA, sure He allows RA to be created, so you can see RA as fruit, but surely its madness to expect GOD also does RA when it suits Him, our gets His department to do His dirty work for Him.
But you follow where others lead, its the "herd rule". Broad is the way and many follow in it, but narrow is the way to living in Jesus, and few find it. Why do so few find it? Because the Hebrew words are made fuzzy by translation, by other so called books that clash knowledge with knowledge. So all are confused by confusion. I suspect the Gnostic writings was written mostly by Simon Magnus, and Simon Magnus was the first pope of Rome. You follow the wrong Peter. But I can't prove this, its history remember, and science can't prove history. Science can only study words in the now. Word like "RA" and "Satan". I follow the Hebrew verses. You clearly don't. You think the majority of verses over rule the ones you don't like.
1. The topic is "opposing GOD" not "opposing MAN".
Where is the Hebrew on this topic:
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
War in heaven, leaders of war named "Michael" and "Dragon" with millions of angels, cast to the earth. Notice "Dragon" also named "Devil" and "Satan". Three descriptor functions of this "sinning angel".
You cannot have a war unless Beings are sinning. Really how can Jews say angels don't sin, or have no free will? How did the war start then?
You see Dave I don't need other verses of Hebrew, this one verse tells me heaps already, things you don't agree with.
2. The topic is "GOD is tov" not "GOD is RA and Tov".
Where is the Hebrew on this topic:
Have a look at the ten commandments written by the finger of GOD, do you see any laws of doing RA there? no. Only always TOV. Why is that? Obviously GOD is LOVE, always, all the time, not of RA. GOD doesn't do RA.
3. The topic is "What is RA" where does "RA" come from?
Where is the Hebrew on this topic:
"RA" is a simile of many words such as "sinning", "darkness", "Death" and "shadows".
If you study all the verses of all these 5 Hebrew words, you find "RA", "sinning" "darkness" "Death" and "shadows" ALL have one thing in common: "relationship".
"ra" "your relationship observed by GOD" "sinning" "your missing of relationship with GOD" "darkess" "your relationship without GOD much in your life" "Death" "Your relationship with GOD ends... nothing remains" "Shadows" "your relationship with GOD, as light, leaves a record behind"
All these words are "relationship" functions, because "RA" is telling us about relationship with GOD.
God created "RA" as a contrast to "light".
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Notice the poetry parallel or similes. GOD is light, peace, and does these things. Opposite in relationship is darkness, and ra. Who does these things? those who oppose GOD does.
The shadow experiment shows you, all 5 Hebrew words in one simple experiment.
You walk away from GOD and umbra shadows of death cause you to die. You walk towards GOD and preumbra shadows get bigger, because light covers your faults and your desire to Love God more. The whole observation is made only by reference to light.
spiritualsprings.org/ss-759.htm
Have you read my study on this in detail?
When Jesus comes He says "will I find faith on the earth"? Does this sound like many are faithful in Jesus, when He comes?
Mt 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? 4 ¶ And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
How can we be sure we are not deceived?
We have battled much over the Hebrew verses, and the Gnostic verses; Dave, and I find over the Hebrew words "Satan" and "cherub", your Gnostic writings are deceiving you.
Dave: "Fact – enormous evidence to a spiritual realm – Ghost, shadow people, interdimensional visitation, clairvoyance, Nostradamus, Edgar Casey, Jean Dixon, UFOs who have been alongside of man since ancient astronauts days
Of course.
Re 12:9 Satan was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
These spiritual realm things come from other sinning angels who sin daily with Satan.
Dave: "I really understand Joyce Meyers take on ‘JUST PRAYERS’ – if you just forgive me - an endless apology
Yes I have listened to this, she is great.
Dave: "Does this make us perfect – absolutely not – we are still the animal our DNA encoded? Jesus came and lived as an animal and died like an animal - God knows we are animal
What does Hebrew say? Not the Greek LXX?
Ps 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. (LXX KJV)
Ps 8:5 For thou hast made MAN a little lower than ELOHIYM, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. (Hebrew)
I would not call this animal. We are as close to Elohiym as created creatures can be.
Jesus retains this creation of matter encapsulating His divinity for all eternity forward, for ongoing salvation to man, requires this.
Dave: "Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth on me, though he die, yet shall he live;
Rom 10:9 For if you confess with your mouth that Yeshua is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart it is believed for righteousness, and with the mouth it is confessed for salvation.
Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: A broken and a contrite heart, …
With the heart it is believed – not the mind – not the intellect – not common sense – not human reasoning – but with the heart it is believed
I suspect we differ here as well Dave. You're reading the Greek into English without studying the word in Hebrew. I fell for this too. Have you studied the word "believed" here? ie "amanuah" the word in Hebrew is "Faith".
spiritualsprings.org/ss-1513.htm
But since you have read some our website and find it with error, you think the whole of it is unworthy of study? I don't treat you as unworthy? We have discussed for months everyday on Hebrew, verses Gnostic literature. I have learned a lot from you, from Jews and Gnostics alike. I can respect them better. Though we differ in our reading of Hebrew.
spiritualsprings.org/ss-1096.htm
A discussion from my friend the Hebrew Greek SDA scholar, now deceased.
"quote"Very interesting, but we have a clash of two approaches here. You are looking for straight-laced consistency in the semantic range and connotations of a word, epithumia, for instance (a word I have used to illustrate semantic fluidity). A contrary approach would be to allow the context to determine the applicability of whatever aspects are in the range of meaning of a word and allow for contextual connotations (as you grapple with at one or two points).
The second approach makes understandable the diverse renderings of words . The first approach is not how language works. Take an English example:
• 1. The billionaire's house was stunning. •2. The billionaire's share market loss was stunning. •3. The fighter's blows were stunning.
1. and 2 both refer to an experience that is primarily emotional;
•3. refers to a physical experience same word.
Looking again at the first two, 1. has positive connotations; 2. negative connotations. Yet both are employed to portray emotional-intellectual experiences that go in an appreciative, awed direction that would bring aesthetic meditations to mind (in sentence 1.), and in a contrasting direction of a sharp, painful pang that would bring mathematical computations into mind (in sentence 2.). Not the first, but the second is the abstract echo of the concrete usage expressed in the third sentence. We need context to be the final determinant of word meanings.
"end quote"
My friend chooses a strange word "stunning" as an example. Does such examples exist in Hebrew OT though? Do words really depend upon their sentences they are in?
In my quest to examine "Stunning" in so few contexts, I can see "big" would fit all three.
• 1. The billionaire's house was "big". •2. The billionaire's share market loss was "big". •3. The fighter's blows were "big".
Hebrew also often makes the opposite meanings, in sentences:
Job 2:9 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.
The Hebrew word "barak" is "bless" but in the sentence is understood to mean it's opposite meaning.
•2. The billionaire's share market loss was "stunning". The word "loss" implies we use a opposite meaning.
"We need context to be the final determinant of word meanings." Perhaps, in the sentence, but the word out of the sentence should have a single basic meaning. Otherwise words are confusing.
My friend is following the traditional way we evaluate Hebrew words, we use sentences to determine the word's meanings.
Jeff Benner and Martin Luther don't do this. They translate each Hebrew word with a single consistent English word or German word.
So if "satan-verb-noun" means to "oppose", it can never mean "friend", it means "foe". God was a "foe" to Baalim because Baalim did not like following GOD, but obeyed his "foe" grudgingly. The sinning angel who met GOD walking up and down the earth, also was a "foe" to GOD, but had to do as He was told to do, ie limits of dysfunction was set upon what could be done to Job.
Rob: "How would you write salvation in 50 words or less, and cover everything?
Your verses do not cover everything.
Hosea Yeshua 14:1 O Israel, return unto the LORD thy God; for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity. 2 Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips. (44 words of KJV) (39 words of Hebrew)
All aspects of salvation covered, all steps we do daily.
spiritualsprings.org/ss-776.htm
Enjoy your Sabbath Dave. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 15, 2020 10:14:39 GMT -5
Joh 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall take of mine, and shall declare it unto you. You should read the entire passage Some things would not make sense until after the Crucifixion Some things were shared with the disciples in the 50 days of Omer (Resurrection - Pentecost) The rest comes by the Comforter – the Spirit of Truth – the HS – The Goddess of Wisdom You misrepresent ancient history with recorded history One has very little written documentation and a volume of artifact – because those artifacts were made of stone and clay – this history is subjective and changes a lot with each new discovery – as it should One has little artifacts of stone – but volumes of written documentation Did man begin in Sumar? NO Was the ‘Cradle of Civilization’ the birthplace of man on earth – NO The Euphrates Valley is only the beginning of our ‘Western Heritage via the volumes of written documentation – it is the beginning of the Western Culture's RECORDED HISTORY We have this recorded history – and it was recorded in Greek 1- Western Culture is not the entire world – it is just your culture 2- Greek became the universal language – in Egypt and Palestine Because non-Greek cultural language was overwritten deliberately – YES! Orthodox Jews kept the Torah alive and Hebrew became a Temple language of study You seem to be missing the entire saga of the Maccabees and he rededication of the Temple A lot happen between the ahl and agl This is your argument – man has doubted scripture for centuries?Gee – I wonder who wants us to doubt scripture? (anyone come to mind?)Recorded history began with the Greeks and Herodotus – later was Josephus and many like him History = his-story / and is always written by the victor Example – I am an American – I was taught the George Washington was a good-guy father of my country However – in England George Washington was a rebel – a terrorist – and would have been hanged if captured This is exactly why a student of history has to read both sides to a story – all sides to a story Does every side of the story sound exactly the same – NO David and Solomon both predate Western Culture's recorded history – fact Jesus also escapes recorded history – fact Why is this – IMO – by design so you have to take it by faith I am not a doubter I am a 100% physical Flood supporter – FD-WEDT Did the exodus happen exactly as scripture say – YES! And whenever current science uncovers more and more evidence scripture is just validatedAbout 721,000 results (0.50 seconds) Was There an Exodus? » Mosaicmosaicmagazine.com › essay › history-ideas › 2015/03 › was-there-a... Mar 2, 2015 – The Exodus Is Not Fiction | ReformJudaism.orgreformjudaism.org › exodus-not-fiction ANE TODAY - 201709 - The Exodus in Archaeology and Text -www.asor.org › anetoday › 2017/09 › exodus-archaeology-text The Exodus: Does archaeology have a say? - The Jerusalem ...www.jpost.com › Opinion › Op-EdContributors Apr 14, 2014 - For too long Biblical studies was made up of Bible scholars who weren’t trained in archaeology or historical method. And then for too long we leaned on archaeologists who weren’t trained in biblical texts, their history, language, and authorship. Father of Biblical Archaeology William F. Albright’s ideal was that eventually the two would work together. They separated for a while, but their inevitable reunion has begun. My scripture is very real and validated everywhere I lookAbout 161,000 results (0.40 seconds) King David's palace? New archaeological evidence ...www.sciencedaily.com › releases › 2013/07 Jul 21, 2013 – Did I Find King David's Palace? - Biblical Archaeology Societywww.biblicalarchaeology.org › daily › biblical-topics › hebrew-bible Oct 21, 2012 The Interrupted Search for King David's Palace - Biblical ...www.biblicalarchaeology.org › daily › biblical-sites-places › jerusalem 3,000-year-old palace in Israel linked to biblical King David ...www.nbcnews.com › sciencemain › 3-000-year-old-palace-israel-link... Jul 19, 2013 – King David's Palace IsFound, Archaeologist Says - The New ...www.nytimes.com › 2005/08/05 › world › middleeast › king-davids-pal... Aug 5, 2005 – Of course you found words to argue about – it is what you do Of course you chose a text so completely removed from anything I represent to make your point Shall I drag the Book of Mormon into the discussion – it is 100% Christian – nothing Gnostic about it Maybe a Roman Catholic book of catechism - it is 100% Christian – nothing Gnostic about it Are you prepared to defend all these text? - it is 100% Christian – nothing Gnostic about it Here is a big difference between you and I – it is also the difference between a Jewish perspective and a Christendom perspective I see only validation of my Creator and Savior – everywhere I lookYou seek out the doubt – and stumble all over it Oh how you opinion has changed In the beginning you criticized me for reading themes and messages – you demand words mean only one specific thing Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things. Who destroyed mankind by a global flood Who looked down from heaven and saw that man could do anything he put his mind to – and stopped us Who brought the plagues upon Egypt? Who will lose the Four Horseman? I do not know why you cannot’ follow / believe’ the Creator Word games – anything to keep people apart – disagreement based theology – looking for the doubt Joseph Smith was a Greater Prophet – he saw God and Jesus – something Moses wasn’t even allowed to do – Joseph Smith wrote an entire New Testament I choose not to follow man – any man – I will follow only Christ What did Jesus say about prophets of the later days? – He said beware 1- I am not a Catholic – therefore I am even less interested in a Catholic sub-set 2- My views are very Jewish – why should I or any Jew like her Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Exo 20:5 thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them; for I Jehovah thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation of them that hate me, Is jealousy TOV or RA? Is jealousy a sin? God visits iniquity on the great, great, great, grand-children of someone – is the TOV only Doesn’t your God Love this great, great, great, grand-child? You see only what you want to see I agree 100% with all of thisGen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 And the earth was waste and void; The earth of Gen 1:1 is all visible physical creation NOT the earth we live on created in Gen 1:9 The Hypostasis of the Archons - The Nag Hammadi Library" Within limitless realms dwells incorruptibility. Sophia, who is called Pistis, wanted to create something, alone without her consort; and her product was a celestial thing. A veil exists between the world above and the realms that are below; and shadow came into being beneath the veil; and that shadow became matter; and that shadow was projected apart. And what she had created became a product in the matter, like an aborted fetus. And it assumed a plastic form molded out of shadow, and became an arrogant beast resembling a lion. It was androgynous, as I have already said, because it was from matter that it derived.
Opening his eyes, he saw a vast quantity of matter without limit; and he became arrogant, saying, "It is I who am God, and there is none other apart from me". When he said this, he sinned against the entirety. And a voice came forth from above the realm of absolute power, saying, "You are mistaken, Samael" – which is, 'god of the blind'.Gen 1:2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. The Hypostasis of the Archons - The Nag Hammadi LibraryAnd he said, "If any other thing exists before me, let it become visible to me!" And immediately Sophia stretched forth her finger and introduced light into matter; and she pursued it down to the region of chaos. And she returned up to her light; once again darkness [...] matter.
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. All I have is what the authors of the agl said The Hypostasis of the Archons - The Nag Hammadi Libraryit was by the will of the father of the entirety that they all came into being – after the pattern of all the things above – so that the sum of chaos might be attained.Authoritative Teaching - The Nag Hammadi LibraryAnd before anything came into being, it was the Father alone who existed, before the worlds that are in the heavens appeared, or the world that is on the earth, or principality, or authority, or the powers. [...] appear [...] and [...] And nothing came into being without his wish.
He, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world,The Kabbalah says – Thank God for the ra - without ra we could not demonstrate our mitzvah / our virtue Lists / laws/ and word games More word games – finding error – looking for doubt – do you have any other apporach Gee – I didn’t realize it was a contest!You asked me how I would witness - salvation Is this how you witness to people – just give them a bible verse and walk away? Again – you insist on a religious law of daily steps – things to do – religion Gnostic says – wake each day as a Christian praising God and the rest takes care of itself If you tell me the flood was not global or real If you tell me that the Exodus was not real If you tell me that the Palace of Davis was not real If you tell me Solomon never existed or real Then - of course – you are probably going to doubt any prophesy or even scripture itself However – once you awaken to a bigger reality you can see all these things physical and spiritual Literal and figurative If scripture does NOT have to be real and physical – then why did Jesus even have to die Maybe Jesus wasn’t real at all – no historical proof – therefore just another Bible story NOT ME - I am real – real - and very real – 100% scripture
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2020 17:15:40 GMT -5
Sorry Dave 2 hours of tying lost, gone, by some stupid keyboard stroke I don't know.
Here I write second time:
Dave: " the HS – The Goddess of Wisdom
I would never call the Holy Spirit a "goddess" , IMO.
Dave: " You seem to be missing the entire saga of the Maccabees and he rededication of the Temple A lot happen between the ahl and agl
Correct. But I like to keep things simple.
Dave: " This is your argument – man has doubted scripture for centuries? Gee – I wonder who wants us to doubt scripture? (anyone come to mind?)
COrrect. Well said.
Dave: " My scripture is very real and validated everywhere I look
Yes, I agree David was real, Exodus real, Solomon real too. Flood was real too. Earth was created in six 24 hour periods of time too, was also real.
Dave: " Of course you found words to argue about – it is what you do
Sorry if you think this. Words are important in Scripture. Jesus is the word personified. He is words of power, when we support His words in prayer, that is called faith/support.
Dave: " Here is a big difference between you and I – it is also the difference between a Jewish perspective and a Christendom perspective I see only validation of my Creator and Savior – everywhere I look You seek out the doubt – and stumble all over it
If I read only Hebrew that makes me Hebrew. Jews add their culture to the Hebrew, making traditions and precepts of men, which is not in Hebrew Bible. Though many of their culture ideas are fine in many ways. I don't seek doubt at all. I read Hebrew, you read Gnostic mixed with Hebrew. Is this a difference?
Dave: " Who destroyed mankind by a global flood Man did. It is a Bible principle. God is not mocked. Man reapeth what he sows. If you want to live in darkness, than GOD switches off HIS light. And you get nothing. extinction. The law says "no kill" or "no wounding". It would be a wounding of GOD, if people who wanted to die, were not allowed to die in the darkness they want. Noah was an exception, only he wanted to live.
Where does living come from? GOD Where does dying come from? YOU walking away from GOD Notice both questions are founded on relationship. Not matter per se'. Matter by itself is not dyfunctional.
Dave: " Word games – anything to keep people apart – disagreement based theology – looking for the doubt
Sorry if you feel that way. If we don't agree with Scripture, and Scripture is made of words, what else do we have? What other approach is there?
Dave:" 2- My views are very Jewish – why should I or any Jew like her
Ellen White inspires Jews
destination-yisrael.biblesearchers.com/destination-yisrael/2010/08/jewish-rabbi-claims-ellen-white-was-a-jewish-mishnaic-writer.html
"The Messiah, the Way of Life” Artist Elfred Lee's Testimony of Yahshua’s Life by Rabbi Joe Kagan Artist Elfred Lee - "I met Rabbi Joe Kagan at Weimar Institute in CA. His family had come from Eastern Europe where his aunt had been raped while a priest stood over her with a crucifix saying, "This is what you get for killing Christ." So you can imagine the feeling of many Jews towards Christianity. American Christians are not at all like Europeans. His family moved to the US while he was young. At age 13 he debuted at Carnegie Hall as a cantor. He had a beautiful, tenor voice. He received a very high education and became a rabbi. I met him in his later years in 1978 after he had been on Ronald Reagan's staff in Sacramento as their research man. If there were any questions about any subject, he was the one that did the research and found the answers. He had a very negative attitude towards Christianity. He would never touch the New Testament. However, he knew the Jewish Old Testament (Torah) extremely well as a highly educated rabbi would. One day he got hold of a book called "Patriarchs and Prophets" by Ellen G. White. He read it with astonishment and wanted to know who this Ellen White was. That is when I met him. He was asking who is this Ellen G. White, and what university did she attend. We told him she only had a 3rd grade education. "Then, where did she learn Hebrew?" he asked. We told him that she never knew Hebrew, but was the most prolific female writer in history and that this was only one of her books. He was amazed at her knowledge, saying that the information in this book (Patriarchs and Prophets) is Mishnaic. The Mishnah is part of the Hebrew scholarship. He said the Mishnah had only been translated into English 30 years ago and that only high-level rabbis knew this information. This is the history of my people and it is very, very accurate. He also said that you have to know Hebrew to be able to write like this because her sentence structure is not English, it's Hebrew...The rhythm, the meter, the arrangement of words and expressions are not English. He said it's as if she wrote in Hebrew and it was translated into English. My family and I developed a strong friendship with Joe, his wife and son. As we studied the Bible and some Ellen White books together one day, he said, "I am convinced that Ellen White was inspired by the same source that inspired the Hebrew prophets. I want to become a Christian. I accept Jesus Christ as my Messiah." Now, he would not have come to Christ through reading the Bible. Even though the Hebrew Bible is full of prophecies pointing to the Messiah, it took Ellen White's writings to prove to him that Jesus Christ was the fulfillment of all the Hebrew prophecies. And only then did he pick up the New Testament and read about his Jewish Messiah. Many times I saw him cry. I was in the middle of a painting commission for a large mural called "Christ The Way of Life" for the world headquarters of the Seventh Day Adventist church in Washington DC. He became very involved with that painting. The painting had originally been inspired by James and Ellen White who had commissioned an engraver to do a black and white drawing of the subject. He confirmed to me that Ellen White's concept was very accurate on the whole plan of salvation in both the Old and New Testament, but that the engraver had misrepresented her concepts. So he helped me in many details to make the painting historically and theologically accurate; especially regarding the sanctuary section, the Hebrew writing on the cross and the last supper scene. He told me to paint Jesus and his disciples at an oriental style table, sitting on mats on the floor - not Roman couches as the medieval artists painted. Further, he said their heads would be covered and he made sure I painted the wine, the unleavened bread and the bitter herbs and their symbolism exactly as they would have been. He approved of the whole painting and we had an unveiling ceremony at the Auburn SDA Church in late 1979. He had written a song to go with the painting and sat at the organ as we unveiled the painting. He wept as he sang the words of Jesus on the cross quoting Isaiah, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" He sang and sang and wept and wept, his whole body shaking. There was not a dry eye in the whole church. His voice was so beautiful. The original painting hangs in the new SDA world headquarters in Silver Spring, Maryland where they have posters and Bible studies of the painting. I could never have done it without the inspiration of Rabbi Kagan and Ellen White. I wish they were still alive! We were at his secret baptism in the Bear River above Sacramento on Saturday night Dec. 22, 1979. There were four of us present. He could not even tell his wife and son that he was now a Christian. As he came up out of the cold water praising God and singing to his new Messiah, he said, "I am now a completed Jew. I have now accepted the Old and New Testament and the Messiah that all Jewish prophets told us about!" I was recently in Europe giving some workshops on art and some of my archeological work in the Middle East. I happened to meet a Jewish family from Israel. Shalom David was originally from Iraq and his wife from Chile. They were now attending a college in Europe where I met with quite a bit of opposition to the writings of Ellen White. This Jewish family invited me to their home for Shabbat (Friday night supper.) It was a most enjoyable occasion as his wife and beautiful children sang and celebrated the arrival of Sabbath as Jews have done for thousands of years. I told them the story of Rabbi Kagan and he got very excited. He said, "The same thing happened to me! I would have rather burned the Bible then touch it! I wanted nothing to do with Christianity, but I also read the writings of Ellen White and the Spirit of God was on that woman. Her writings are as if she wrote in Hebrew. You can definitely hear the Hebrew rhythm, meter and expressions in her books. I also believe she was inspired by the same source as the Hebrew prophets. And she has helped me fall in love with Jesus Christ, my Messiah." I just met yesterday with a rabbi living here in California - Rabbi Ben. It was a follow up to a Sabbath meal I was invited to this last Sabbath with him and a group of Adventists. He went through the whole ceremony at the meal just like Rabbi Kagan and as my new friend (Shalom David) in Europe had. So yesterday we were talking over Hebrew ceremonies and how they are still effective in healing disease. Rabbi Ben told me that he has also had the same experience. He hated the Bible but that Ellen White brought him to Christ and helped him read the New Testament and fall in love with the Messiah. He also told me that he had gone to visit one of the most influential rabbis in America who is in his 90s who must remain unnamed. While in this rabbi's library talking, he was scanning the many, many books on his walls and there he saw the book "Patriarchs and Prophets" by Ellen White. Rabbi Ben asked him about it and where he had gotten it, "Why do you have this book by a Christian author?" The rabbi said, "This as a very authoritative source on our history."
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www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/marcus-b-lichtenstein
Marcus Lichtenstein was the first Jewish convert to the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
Marcus B. Lichtenstein was born in Poland in the 1840s or 1850s, the precise date uncertain. His parents were Orthodox Jews, and he was reared in that tradition. After the “January Uprising” from 1863-1865 and the subsequent unrest, Lichtenstein immigrated from Poland to the United States in the late 1860s.
It is unclear how, but Lichtenstein arrived in Battle Creek, Michigan, in February 1871. At the time the Midwestern town was the headquarters and center of the fledgling Seventh-day Adventist Church (established in 1863), home to church founders James and Ellen White, as well as the brothers of the cereal fame Will and John Harvey Kellogg. Lichtenstein was converted to Adventism shortly after his arrival. Although there are great similarities between Judaism and Adventism, such a conversion was a lifechanging move, as it spelled for Lichtenstein a break from his family and heritage.
Lichtenstein was a member of the charter faculty of Battle Creek College (now Andrews University), when it opened in December 1874, Adventism’s first institution of higher learning, teaching courses in the Hebrew language. He also worked as a proofreader at Adventism’s sole press, the Review and Herald Publishing Office, and wrote for church periodicals, including several articles for the official church paper, Adventist Review. In the articles Lichtenstein deftly explained difficult Hebrew words and concepts to his American Adventist readers, who were largely ignorant of the ancient language.
Ellen G. White took a personal interest in Lichtenstein, talking with him on several occasions and listening to his lectures. She believed that Lichtenstein’s conversion to Christianity was of singular divine providence, and saw great potential in the young man, what with his knowledge of the Hebrew language and culture and access to the Jewish people. On several occasions she commended personal piety, in juxtaposition to some of his coworkers, who at times mocked Lichtenstein’s accent and broken English.
Apparently due to ill treatment and the unserious behavior of some Adventists in Battle Creek, Lichtenstein left the town and the Seventh-day Adventist Church in 1875. Details on the remainder of his life are unknown.
Is jealousy TOV or RA? Is jealousy a sin?
Jeff Benner translates qanna as zealous. qanna has verb and noun forms.
If qanna is postive is means zealous, protective. If qanna is in a sentence where the opposite meaning is intended, than it can mean jealous.
So Zealous is TOV, and Jealous is RA. GOD only is zealous over us.
Dave: " You see only what you want to see
Perhaps. I study all the Hebrew verses. most verses show opposite meanings in sentence, but a few show zealous meaning in sentence. Do the study.
Dave: " I agree 100% with all of this
Great. Than "war in heaven" implies "angels sin" correct? Not archons sin.
Sophia, who is called Pistis, wanted to create something, alone without her consort;
You use Gnostic answer. Mixing with Hebrew. to show Archons came from her, doing sin.
I use Hebrew from Rev, and Hebrew from Ezekial
Eze 28:16 "cherub chata" "angel sin".
I don't mix. I use Hebrew all the time.
Dave: " All I have is what the authors of the agl said
Yes Greek torah, Gnostic torah is mostly fine perhaps, but notice what Scripture says:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Who is the original tongue here? Hebrew is. Greek and Gnostic tongue is a stammering tongue, of less primary importance, but the Scripture does say it is a refreshing to those people.
Dave: " More word games – finding error – looking for doubt – do you have any other apporach
Sorry for word games. How do you get to know Jesus more and more in your life? How do we pray in the Spirit? I am only a babe in these things, and want to learn more. to learn how. Even get public miracles flowing from Jesus via me to others. Wow that would be humbly a sign of His love. Can you answer these questions, please?
Dave: " Gee – I didn’t realize it was a contest!
Sorry. It wasn't. Your answers were good, praising GOD is a good thing.
Heb 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.
Paul agrees with you.
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Post by Dave on Feb 16, 2020 7:50:23 GMT -5
Word games – you see only what you want to see
All of my question to you Is jealousy TOV or RA? Is jealousy a sin? God visits iniquity on the great, great, great, grand-children of someone – is the TOV only Doesn’t your God Love this great, great, great, grand-child?
Your word game half answer
OK – so God is ZEALOUS to visit iniquity upon great, great, great, grandchildren What sin have they done except being born? Is it TOV to visit iniquity upon the innocent?
You treat satan as a creator god – but you find it incorrect to give the HS the same standing Curious
Gen 6:13 Then (a man) said to Noah, “The end of all flesh is coming before Me, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. Behold, I am about to bring ruin upon them along with the land.
Was this a man talking to Noah? What was his name – who were his parents?
Gen 7:23 So (a man) wiped out all existence that was upon the surface of the ground, everything from people to livestock, to crawling creatures, and to flying creatures of the sky. They were wiped out off the land. Only Noah and those with him in the ark survived.
Was this a man talking to us? What was his name – who were his parents?
Gen 8:21 When (a man) smelled the soothing aroma, (a man) said in His heart, “I will never again curse the ground on account of man, even though the inclination of the heart of humankind is evil from youth. Nor will I ever again smite all living creatures, as I have done.
Was this a man talking to Noah? What was his name – who were his parents?
Word games – are they valuable?
Although she teaches there are no Jews anymore – they ended in 70AD – you said this You affirm that any future prophesy about the Jewish people is only spiritual – not physical
What about the Jews that converted to Catholicism? What about Jews that become Mormon? What if a Jew becomes a Satanist Or What if some Jews become atheist Therefore – according to your logic – Catholic Mormon Satanist atheist - are OK They must be OK because they followed the words of some human rather than scripture
Lets see – you spend hours a day telling others that scripture is wrong You do not accept verses that do not fit your paradigm – as in Isa 45:7 or Gen 1:26
How do you get to know Jesus more and more in your life? Scripture says – by being CONFIDENT in our salvation You say we have no confidence – you doubt that you are saved = because you must do steps every day so God will keep His words or His promise -
Even get public miracles flowing from Jesus via me to others. A Jewish Rabbi – would call you self-centered and selfish – you want to do miracles in public For whose glory / reward– your’s?
Mat 6:1 Beware of practicing your righteousness before others to be seen by them; otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2 So whenever you do tzedakah, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, so that they may be glorified by men. Amen, I tell you, they have their reward in full! 3 But when you do tzedakah, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your tzedakah may be in secret; and your Father, who sees in secret, shall reward you.
If your only desire is to praise your Creator – where does personal recognition – or even personal validation by other men matter?
– Or is it a desire by you to be personally validated
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2020 17:01:19 GMT -5
Dave: "Word games – you see only what you want to see
You play "Word games " too Dave:
Dave: "Mat 6:1 Beware of practicing your righteousness before others to be seen by them; otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2 So whenever you do tzedakah,
Aren't you playing "word games" here? I have spent hours trying to find out about some word you placed here?
www.myjewishlearning.com/article/tzedakah-101/
Tzedakah Themes and Theology
Biblical prophets castigated the Israelites for neglecting and even exploiting the poor, insisting that God has particular concern for those in need. The rabbis of classical Judaism praised tzedakah, calling it, for example, “equal in value to all the other mitzvot [commandments] combined.” They also praised those who practice it, saying that they attain the level of holiness of someone who brought sacrifices in the ancient Temple. The Rosh Hashanah liturgy lists tzedakah alongside repentance and prayer as a human act capable of averting a negative divine decree.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzedakah
The word tzedakah is based on the Hebrew (צדק, Tzedek), meaning righteousness, fairness, or justice, and is related to the Hebrew word Tzadik, meaning righteous as an adjective (or righteous individual as a noun in the form of a substantive). Although the word appears 157 times in the Masoretic Text of the Hebrew Bible, typically in relation to "righteousness" per se, its use as a term for "charity" in the above sense is an adaptation of Rabbinic Judaism in Talmudic times. In addition, one must be very careful about how one gives out tzedakah money. It is not sufficient to give to just any person or organization; rather, one must check their credentials and finances to be sure that your tzedakah money will be used wisely, efficiently, and effectively. The meaning of "Do not steal from a poor person, for (s)he is poor" (Proverbs 22:22) and of Talmudic-era commentaries, including Numbers Rabba 5:2, is that tzedakah money was never yours to begin with.
None of these texts even show tzedakah?
www.myjewishlearning.com/article/tzedakah-in-the-bible/
In the Torah ’s detailed code of law in Exodus, the very first law describes the case of the “Hebrew slave”—a man who has to sell himself into indentured servitude because of poverty or debt. The focal provision of the law is the obligation of the owner to release the slave at the end of six years. In Deuteronomy, the law is elaborated and revised–the owner must “pile him up” with food and flocks as he goes free. Together, the two statements of the law of the Hebrew slave set up a parallel between God’s treatment of Israel and Israel’s treatment of those in the community who are poor. God, who is identified at the beginning of the Ten Commandments as the One “Who brought you out… from the house of slaves,” defines Israel as the people who liberate their own debt-slaves and sustain them in their freedom. Indeed, the Torah’s framework of assistance for the poor is built almost entirely on a series of imitations of God, in accord with the command “You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy.” Life on the land God has given is a covenantal partnership between Israel and God. God and Israel each participate in making the land productive and prosperous. Israel is expected to acknowledge God’s faithfulness by reserving a portion of that prosperity for the most vulnerable. The widow, the orphan, the temporary sojourner, the landless, the poor—they command God’s special attention and concern, according to the Torah, just as the people as a whole did in Egypt. Sustaining them is in some sense the only way the community of Israel can repay God for the blessing of bounty.
In the Torah there is no overarching term for this system, which rabbinic Judaism calls tzedakah . The root tz-d-k in the Hebrew Bible generally refers to the quality of justice. Mishpat tzedek means laws that are just or courts that are just, as opposed to law that favors one group or social class. The same form, tzedek, is used to describe measures and weights that are honest and fair in commerce. The form tzedakah occurs predominantly in later biblical compositions—mostly in Second Isaiah, Ezekiel, Psalms, and Proverbs—where it means justice or integrity. Only in Daniel 4:24 is the word tzidka (the same consonants as tzedakah) used to refer particularly to concern for the poor
So your "Word game" has "no overarching term" in the Bible, which Rabbi in Judaism calls tzedakah
OK I try Jeff Benner:
Jeff Benner, the Hebrew word "6666" (Strong;s Number) is "tsadaqah". Nf1) TsD-QH) — Straightness: [freq. 157] |kjv: righteousness, justice, right, righteous, moderate| {str: 6666} bm) Ts-DYQ)
Meaning from pictographs: "travelling through the door, over the horizon into the unknown, is the Person Behold!"
Therefore this word is about your travelling with GOD, how your hand remains connected to God's hand, you remain "straight" to Him, and not "lost" or "crooked" or "wandering from His path".
I also try Cross reference NT Greek to a OT Hebrew word
Ac 10:30 And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing, 31 And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God. This prayer parallels a prayer response in Daniel 10 Da 10:12 Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.
Why does an angel use "alms" in Greek, for a similar prayer in Daniel 10:12 ?
Dave, you play word games, throwing around Jewish Words, I don't know, not really found in the Hebrew Bible, which they admit, but the principle is there, I agree?
Dave: "If your only desire is to praise your Creator – where does "personal recognition" – or even "personal validation" by other men matter?
Again your "word games", I have no idea what your talking about, unless you explain yourself?
Or is it a desire by you to be "personally validated"
Scripture says this about "wonders from Jesus":-
Mr 16:16 He that believeth (support) and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth (support) not shall be damned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe (support); In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
When you begin learning about the true meaning of faith as support, you can claim great prayer promises from Jesus, so His wonders of power flow freely through you.
Dave: "Although she teaches there are no Jews anymore – they ended in 70AD – you said this You affirm that any future prophesy about the Jewish people is only spiritual – not physical
Why take my word for it, read her yourself? Again your misquoting my words. The Jews are not lost as individuals. God still loves them. I would not say there are no Jews anymore, that's a terrible thing to say Dave. When ended in Jesus time, the tearing of the curtain in the most holy place, is the sacrificial system for sin, type meets antitype, ended. Not no Jews anymore. The sacrificial system of lambs dying for our sins ended, we can come boldly before Jesus as our High Priest in a temple in heaven, and have our sins removed there.
Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. (KJV)
You didn't read my post on Ellen White about Jews did you? Or you would have been touched by the Jews who spoke about her? Don't be hard on others who differ from your thinking.
"You affirm that any future prophesy about the Jewish people is only spiritual – not physical" Your trying to back me into a corner, I don't condemn Jews, I am trying to be a spiritually a Jew myself, a torah follower, as Jesus was. God has not rejected the Jews. God loves all people groups all over the world.
Dave: "Was this a man talking to Noah? What was his name – who were his parents?
Word games – are they valuable?
I point out RA comes from RELATIONSHIPS to GOD, yet you say I play word games. Hardly.
If relationships go bad, what can the parties in the relationship do? Who makes the relationships go bad, man or God? Man obviously. So GOD reacts to your reaction. How is that so hard to understand?
Dave: "You treat Satan as a creator god – but you find it incorrect to give the HS the same standing Curious
Where in Scripture is Satan, the fallen angel, a creator god?
Perhaps this verse:
Isa 59:5 They hatch cockatrice' eggs, and weave the spider's web: he that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out into a viper. 6 Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover themselves with their works: their works are works of iniquity, and the act of violence is in their hands. 7 Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity; wasting and destruction are in their paths. The Hebrew word "aven" is "DNA genes of propensities" epi-genetics make humans do evil habits.
Satan could cause these things, by changing human DNA perhaps?
Job 15:35 They conceive mischief, and bring forth vanity, and their belly prepareth deceit. (KJV)
Here "Aven" cann be "born", ie inherited.
Ps 7:13 He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; he ordaineth his arrows against the persecutors. 14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made.
SO it seems Satan can influence DNA propensities in humans, making them easily subject to sinning and doing further evil? This is some evidence of His creative abilities, however is it creative? no, it's more destructive rather than creative, so really Satan is NOT a Creator at all, a Destroyer is a better term.
Also the Scriptures do not show the Holy Spirit as a Creator on her own.
Ge 17:1 ¶ And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
This verse may allude to your idea, both YHWH-Jesus and the SHADDAY-Holy-Spirit both appear together before Abram. Why two appear? So the Medium allows YHWH to appear to Abram, so He doesn't perish. I don't see the Shadday-Holy Spirit doing creative acts on it's own.
Dave" OK – so God is ZEALOUS to visit iniquity upon great, great, great, grandchildren What sin have they done except being born? Is it TOV to visit iniquity upon the innocent?
A good question Dave, why does our guilt continue upon the children for so long? The only answer I find is the sinning we do, hence guilt from that sinning, causes "Aven" of "DNA propensities" to be unleashed, hence epi-genetics is inherited for a long time, and hard to remove.
I see GOD trying to protect his people from these propensities and thus zealous we do no sinning, causing no epi-genetics upon our children.
What sin have they done except being born? Is it TOV to visit iniquity upon the innocent?
This question is raised in Ezekiel:
Eze 18:2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?
The answer:
Eze 18:10 ¶ If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth the like to any one of these things, 11 And that doeth not any of those duties, but even hath eaten upon the mountains, and defiled his neighbour's wife, 12 Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination, 13 Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him. 14 Now, lo, if he beget a son, that seeth all his father's sins which he hath done, and considereth, and doeth not such like, 15 That hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, hath not defiled his neighbour's wife, 16 Neither hath oppressed any, hath not withholden the pledge, neither hath spoiled by violence, but hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment, 17 That hath taken off his hand from the poor, that hath not received usury nor increase, hath executed my judgments, hath walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live. 18 As for his father, because he cruelly oppressed, spoiled his brother by violence, and did that which is not good among his people, lo, even he shall die in his iniquity. 19 Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live. 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. 21 ¶ But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
I see the verse saying GOD is zealous upon the great grandchildren, protecting them from the epi-genetics of the parents?
Ex 20:5 "zealous God, visiting the guilt of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
I read this saying GOD holds parents guilty of their sins for 5 generations, because they unleash epi-genetics upon their children's children, and this makes our sinning very bad. Thus GOD is wanting to be protective of this. I don't see any RA in the statement, only TOV. God is warning us of our sins, and the affects of our sins upon our children.
Hope this helps. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Feb 16, 2020 19:33:59 GMT -5
Math 6:2 (CJB – that would be the Complete Jewish Bible) To accommodate your flavor for Hebrew – I have only been using the TLV and the CJB when quoting verses to you I won’t do it again – the Hebrew seems to hard to understand Instead of spending hours – you could have just spent 2 minutes with your KJV Mat 6:2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, Alms - G1654 - ἐλεημοσύνη - From G1656; compassionateness, that is, (as exercised towards the poor) beneficence, or (concretely) a benefaction: - alms (-deeds). I gave you a verse – you chose one word from the verse and went off on a 2565 word rant About one word and never replied to my point.Oh – I see – you not seeking to be special – You are testing God to see if it is true Jewish Convert to Mormonism Is Now ‘a Better Jew’ - Jan. 24, 1971 www.nytimes.com/1971/01/24/archives/jewish-convert-to-mormonism-is-now-a-better-jew.htmlHow Many Jews Have Become Mormon & Why They See No ContradictionbyHaaretz | Feb. 22, 2016 www.ldsliving.com/How-Many-Jews-Have-Become-Mormon-Why-They-See-No-Contradiction/s/81395Read these incredible conversion stories from Jews across America. Inside the Insular World of Israeli Jews Who Became Jehovah’s Witnesses – Dec 2, 2016 forward.com/news/356003/inside-the-insular-world-of-israeli-jews-who-became-jehovahs-witnesses/The Observations of a Jew Who Converted to Islam - 11/18/2011 www.huffpost.com/entry/jew-converted-to-islam_b_1097776I guess I don’t understand your point! Jews convert to all types of mam-made religions Jews are no different that you or me I get that you do not believe in the Trinity According to you satan created RA and all the evil Yet you say even the Holy Spirit isn’t as powerful as you satan – she can not create But satan can See you satan is more powerful than your HS I get that you do not believe in the Trinity
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Post by Dave on Feb 16, 2020 19:51:48 GMT -5
Question - How can Christianity be mono-theoistic if you have a male God Father - and a male Christ Son - and a nothing Holy Spirit that doesn't count as an independant entity?
So who do you pray to God or Jesus?
The godhead = 2 male figures only
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2020 15:23:08 GMT -5
I suspect Dave the Roman Catholics follow a trinity word they invented , which includes a masculine Father, a masculine Son and a masculine Holy Spirit. This is the same picture of GOD the SDA church also officially follows, since the 28 Fundamentals mentions this about the Holy Spirit. Such a belief did not exist in the 1981 baptism vows when I became a SDA. I have always seen the Holy Spirit as a feminine personality in the Godhead. I also see Elohiym as a Family kind. I am unique in my understanding of Elohiym, cannot get Pastors to even talk about this change, nor will any Pastor to discuss it. Not even my SDA brother, a Pastor. Or my sister, a SDA friend. I would not call the Holy Spirit a goddess as you do. Nor is the Father or the Holy Spirit gender male or gender female. They are not of matter, time or space. If you look at the Hebrew words for "love" there are two Hebrew words, each having a personality difference in the way "love" is expressed. Hence I find the Most High is a "provider" showing maleness-love and the " receiver" showing femaleness-love, and the Son, according to Jonathon Sarfetti show "collective-love" a blended form of the other two kinds of love? Ephesians 3:15,16 shows Elohiym is a picture of family. This link explains all the details on my view, in simple terms. spiritualsprings.org/ss-1330.htm It is a rebuttal using the work of Lita Cosner, from the Creation Science Website, an excellent article, that explains things well, but it is what's it doesn't explain, and leaves out, is the problem, concerning the Holy Spirit. Now you raise the concern, of Creative Powers. I don't see all members of GOD working as possible three gods of creative powers on their own. IMO I see love works more like a relational concept of provider connecting to receiver, thus no one member works alone ever, the love seems relational all the time. The Holy Spirit is a responder of love. The Father and the Son are providers of love. This is a general statement, and suggests that the community love we see, makes GOD into one spring or source of love, not three independent gods like your might think, or Jews might claim. Hope this helps. Shalom
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