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Post by Dave on Oct 29, 2019 20:48:25 GMT -5
How do we keep from being deceived?Study it rigidly – Hebrew / Greek – as a Gnostic, I’ll add all creation points to the creator 15:45 - Hermeneutical Hygiene God’s Word is truth – agreed – next is the Canon issue, the Roman Edit issue, the Roman Index What about the difference between Western Christendom and Easter Orthodox? What about the Coptic Christians and their Broader Canon? Where do we draw the line? Let’s talk about God’s word being infallible and trustworthy and the Gospel Canon Mathew says Jesus was born at least two years before 4BC. / Luke says it was in the year 6AD Every Rabbi will ask you this. 19:30 – Mat 16:18 Gates of Hell – Cern – scientific agreement = Gnostic weighted evidence from creation 20:00 – Luke 16 – difference between Hades and Tartarus – different localities with the heavens – multidimensionality 20:30 – Cosmic Warfare – Dan 10 – The Reality of the Archon – Eph 6:12 – Rev 9 21:45 – Today’s challenge = vocabulary – yes – it separates and confuses us – Christians can call the personage of Jesus by many names –Savior, Messiah, Son of God But if a Gnostic calls the Holy Spirit – The Goddess of Wisdom – Sophia – OMG! It is a crisis 22:30 – Science validates scripture – Chuck Missler makes this point!24:10 – John in Revelation 24:50 – I love Chuck to death, but the use of the term ‘Profane’ is a bias / an opinion – it is the Missler edit – but it is nice to know that his edit and mine are on track 25:25 - Pseudographical and Apocryphal – again and edit issue – Maccabees is the best example The Dead Sea Scrolls and Nag Hammadi Text is not included in his criticism They are both a new revelation – current – not something of the past 25:45 – Enoch – Chuck Missler and I agree 100%. I have never made the claim that it was/is inspired Enoch was Jewish canon at the time of Jesus. Enoch was referenced and/or quoted 11 times by the agl authors. 1 -Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. (Mat 5:5) The elect shall possess light, joy and peace, and they shall inherit the earth. (Enoch 5:7 {6:9})
2- the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the son (John 5:22). the principal part of the judgment was assigned to him, the Son of man. (Enoch 69:27 {68:39})
3- shall inherit everlasting life (Mat. 19:29) those who will inherit eternal life (Enoch 40:9 {40:9})
4- "Wo unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. (Luke 6:24) Woe to you who are rich, for in your riches have you trusted; but from your riches you shall be removed. (Enoch 94:8 {93:7}).
5- Ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Mat. 19:28) I will place each of them on a throne of glory (Enoch 108:12 {105:26})
6- Woe unto that man through whom the Son of man is betrayed! It had been good for that man if he had not been born. (Mat. 26:24) Where will the habitation of sinners be . . . who have rejected the Lord of spirits. It would have been better for them, had they never been born. (Enoch 38:2 {38:2})
7- between us and you there is a great gulf fixed. (Luke 16:26) by a chasm . . . [are] their souls are separated (Enoch 22: 9,11{22:10,12})
8- In my Father's house are many mansions (John 14:2) In that day shall the Elect One sit upon a throne of glory, and shall choose their conditions and countless habitations. (Enoch 45:3 {45:3})
9- that ye may be called the children of light (John 12:36) the good from the generation of light (Enoch 108:11 {105: 25})
10- the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. (John 4:14) all the thirsty drank, and were filled with wisdom, having their habitation with the righteous, the elect, and the holy. (Enoch 48:1 {48:1})
And Jude quotes Enoch directly – word for word
Jude 1:14-15, quoting Enoch 1:9 {2:1}
"And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
"To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches, which ungodly sinners have spoken against him."Enoch’s version of 10 heaven correlates with Jewish Kabbalah and modern science Enoch’s version of the 200 correlates with ‘other gods’ and their mythologies Very useful document to understand the mind-set of the people Jesus ministered to! Chuck Missler is not saying we need to be a ‘one book’ Christian – but intelligent and informed = He uses science all the time 27:00 - Hermeneutical Hygiene – take those things I hold as TRUTH close – everything else = cosmology This is exactly the Gnostic approach – test it all – keep the good. In my churchian walk – those things I hold as ‘truth’ grew smaller and smaller In my Christian walk – many of my ‘old truths’ are now abominations to me Christmas, Easter Sun day, Sun day Sabbath, etc, etc, etc, 28:00 – Co-Mingeling – I could not agree more – It all points to the truth of Jesus Christ and the Spiritual nature of our walk –Do not pick up the Other Testament of Jesus Christ and discard the NT. Instead look for Jesus in it all – all creation point to the same truth of Jesus Christ – “GNOSTIC CHRISTIAN”28:15 – Presuppositions – YES – the Roman Edit - If you already been taught that Lucifer had free will in Ezk 28 and Isa 14 – you will see him there every time. If you have never been taught this – you just cannot understand why so many Catholics make that claim. Once you embrace that claim – then they have to discount the entire book of Job. Job doesn’t mean what it says – it means something else. If you have been taught that God is only Feel Good – then Isa 45:7 must be a metaphor If you haven’t been taught that – then Isa 45: just means what it says 31:25 – validation of the new 70 Week Gospel 34:25 – YES! – let’s take it to the next level – Praying in the Spirit – Being Spirit led 35:10 – REPAIR of Biblical literacy (repair the damage of the Roman edit and Christendom’s mythology) 35:40 – His will for your life – not your will 36:30 – Jesus’s calling for us – STOP trying to fit round pegs into square holes43:00 - $ $ $ $ $ 40:50 – Your walk is your walk alone
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2019 0:36:31 GMT -5
Dave: "28:15 – Presuppositions – YES – the Roman Edit - If you already been taught that Lucifer had free will in Ezk 28 and Isa 14 – you will see him there every time. If you have never been taught this – you just cannot understand why so many Catholics make that claim. Once you embrace that claim – then they have to discount the entire book of Job.
The Hebrew word "satan" means "opponent" according to Jeff Benner.
So explain how a archon volunteered to become an opponent? Why would an angel do this?
The Hebrew word by definition is a BEING who opposes GOD. It can't be a "good angel" or a "good archon" on God's side. The Hebrew word implies one whose NOT on God's side, a Being who is an enemy to GOD. Is this not correct? Isn't this what the Hebrew word actually means?
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
If you look a this verse, the Hebrew word "satan" is a Being who opposes YHWH, and is against YHWH.
If we write this in English:
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the "sons of God" came to present themselves before the CHRIST, and ANTICHRIST came also among them.
That's the Hebrew in English,
now who are these "sons of GOD" ?
All of these verses have the term "ben elohiym" both OT and NT.
Ge 6:2 That the "sons of God" saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Cannot be angels, angels cannot have sex with humans, they are creatures of a different kind?
Ge 6:4 ¶ There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the "sons of God" came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
"sons of GOD" may refer to humans saved by GOD?
Job 1:6 ¶ Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
"Here we have reference to human like beings at a meeting before GOD" This must refer to unfallen human like creatures, or Beings very similar to humans as a kind, to be termed "ben".
Job 2:1 ¶ Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Question why is an opponent part of the sons of GOD group? Adam must have been a prince of earth, and these other sons of GOD must be princes of other unfallen worlds.
The opponent comes to the meeting because He is also a prince, but of a fallen world, he takes Adam's crown.
Is there any scripture for this idea?
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Angels or princes of unfallen worlds? Has to be human like beings of other unfallen worlds, because of the Hebrew word "ben". To reference angels, the Hebrew would not use "Ben" but "cherub" or "malak".
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
God's own become "sons of God"
Ro 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Ro 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Php 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
1Jo 3:1 ¶ Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
(KJV)
Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
You would say Greek word "archon" means "archon" in English, but this word is the Hebrew word "sar" meaning prince.
Judgement is not a good process, it means you have an opponent, an accuser, a satan in your godly world.
Joh 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
This says the same.
Who is this?
Da 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
Who is Michael and the sar who opposes Michael?
Da 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
SO we have two sars, one sar must oppose the sar of sars.
Da 10:20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.
The sar of Persia, the sar of Greece. Suggest human kings.
Da 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.
Michael is a prince.
Mt 9:34 But the Pharisees said, He casteth out devils through the prince of the devils.
Who is this sar of devils?
Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
Who is this sar of earth, Jesus as sar, came to cast out?
Re 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
(KJV)
Jesus is our sar of earth, or archon of earth, if you want it in Greek.
So who opposes Jesus?
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Here is Michael, who is a sar, also a commander of angels.
Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Here YHWH is termed also the name of Michael, and contends with the devil over Moses.
So in all this presentation, the Hebrew word "satan" means to oppose, to be an opponent, to accuse. No BEING who is good and holy is going to volunteer to become evil and oppose GOD?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Oct 30, 2019 2:33:31 GMT -5
The Hebrew word "satan" means "opponent" according to Jeff Benner. So explain how a archon volunteered to become an opponent? Why would an angel do this? Not God's opponent - your opponet / man's opponent - in the Contest I am sure anyone - angel or not - would gladly serve the Lord if given a chance We have had this discussion at length - You have avoided responding to any Rabbinic commentary on satan, angels, demons, or Job If you can convert a Jewish Rabbi to become a Catholic thinker - I might change my mind, but I doubt it We will have to disagree - if you ever want the conversation to evolve |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2019 12:54:22 GMT -5
A holy angel would not volunteer to do moral evil just because GOD says so. You said yourself GOD does not do ra personally. Nor would holy angels do ra personally even if GOD told them too, such a thing would cause them to sin. But than we haven't defined sin have we?
I am not aware of avoiding any Rabbinic commentary. I don't avoid Hebrew words laid in the Scriptures. You have personally avoided the word "chata" and "cherub" in Scripture, even possibly admitting the entire scroll is questionable as inspired.
But than I thought the word "satan" itself means to oppose... your comment that it only refers to humans is ridiculous . Who created Hebrew? God did. Who created humans? God did. Who created angels? God did. Who created Ra? God did. What is RA? It has to be the spectrum affect of missing GOD, what we term as sin. Who created this contest? God did.
A Jewish Rabbi would not commit to email discussions, you get 1 email only. I had a friend on the Internet once, called John. We emailed over 80 times on the subject does Jesus pre-exist. He says no. I say yes. He is from what I could gather a Jewish type who loves Yeshua, but does NOT see Yeshua as one pre-existing. There is only one YHWH, and no Holy Spirit as a Being. Just a Father YHWH and a sinless human made into the Son of the Father since Mary's time. I sent him over 80 proofs, and he kindly wrote off every one, all based on Scripture. Towards the end, explaining why Jesus died, was our best proof. He says Jesus died and the Father brought him back from the dead. This cannot be. When Jesus died his body did not decay. Explain that I said. You cannot explain unless you have the Father's presence also there, but than you don't have a person dying either. You can't have both concepts at the same time.
I am not a Catholic thinker, I follow what Scripture says.
If we discussed what is nephesh, you would discover I don't follow Catholic or Jewish ideas of the state of the dead. Actually you follow Catholic teachings on the state of the dead, in this topic. Your Rabbi video says the soul never dies... That is ridiculous, he mixes his terms, ruwach and nephesh. Sure ruwach is divine and immortal, but nephesh is not divine or immortal, it is the relationship of the dust with the divine. Nevertheless he mixes his terms.
Dave:"I might change my mind, but I doubt it
I have shown you a text that shows "chata" next to "cherub" but you ignore the findings. So I doubt Hebrew can change your mind.
OK, so let's find another way to seek truth about Archon? Are there other ways? Absolutely.
Who is Michael? You tell me...
Do you agree the Greek term "archon" is just a translated word for the Hebrew word "sar"?
I doubt you agree, you see archon as a Being. I see archon as a title of a Being. The Being is a prince. You make this mistake because you do not aligns the Greek term to a Hebrew term. The Bible is written in Hebrew, not Greek. So you have made the term "archon" into a proper name of a Being, rather than the title of a Being.
I remember making this error too looking for Jesus in the OT. Perhaps you might be right though? Than I can also make "salvation" into a proper noun for Jesus? The Jews on Jeff's forum didn't like that idea?
Isa 28:11 ... and another tongue will he speak to this people.
This tells you the Hebrew speaks in another tongue to this people. Why? Because the Jews hated the gospel going out as a light, so GOD translated the NT and OT into Greek for Greeks. But if you want to align the NT into OT thinking, you translate it back to Hebrew... what proof of this idea?
Lu 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Jesus is translating the Scriptures written in Hebrew to possibly a Hebrew and a Greek person. The word expounded, means to translate. Why translate the Hebrew to a Hebrew though? Obviously something wrong with the way Jews read Hebrew, and the way Jesus reads Hebrew, they are not the same.
Your gnostic writings are interesting, some being comments in the time of Jesus, but are they written in Hebrew or Greek? I suspect Coptic whatever that means? or Greek? And this tells me it's already a copy of a copy. A person who is a scribe, not familiar with Hebrew would make more mistakes scribing Hebrew into Greek.
The Scriptures says from these verses that to get more stronger meat from Scripture, we should read the Scriptures from a Hebrew point of view. Jeff Benner agrees with this idea. Including the NT. But you don't do this? Most people see the NT written first in Greek. This creates confusion for anyone seeking truth if it's written in two languages, Hebrew and Greek.
Lu 24:27 is powerful proof Jesus, a Hebrew, had to translate to a Jew, his Hebrew readings. Hence the problem with Jews reading Hebrew.
Dave: "We will have to disagree - if you ever want the conversation to evolve
Evolve? Meaning?
If you want to discuss a topic where the Scripture is more certain first, and where I already have seen Rabbi video, let's discuss the "soul".
Create a new tread... What is the soul? What happens after you die?
Does the "soul" get tortured after the "body" dies? Or does just the "nephesh" die that very day it dies?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Oct 30, 2019 13:56:43 GMT -5
 The holy Scriptures emphasize that our God is “not the author of confusion” I Con 14:33, hence He establishes His heavens with splendid spiritual rites. The Devil an angel created by God for His service and praise. stmarkla.org/coptic-orthodoxySatan called a worldwide convention.
In his opening address to his evil angels, he said, “We can’t keep the Christians from going to church. We can’t keep them from reading their Bibles and knowing the truth. We can’t even keep them from forming an intimate, abiding relationship experience in Christ. If they gain that connection with Jesus, our power over them is broken. So let them go to their churches; let them have their conservative lifestyles, but steal their time, so they can’t gain that relationship with Jesus Christ. This is what I want you to do, angels. Distract them from gaining hold of their Savior and maintaining that vital connection throughout their day!” How shall we do this?” shouted his angels. “Keep them busy in the non essentials of life and invent innumerable schemes to occupy their minds,” he answered. “Tempt them to spend, spend, spend, and borrow, borrow,borrow. Persuade the wives to go to work for long hours and the husbands to work 6-7 days each week, 10-12 hours a day, so they can afford their empty lifestyles. Keep them from spending time with their children. As their family fragments, soon, their home will offer no escape from the pressures of work!” Over-stimulate their minds so that they cannot hear that still, small voice. Entice them to play the radio or cassette player whenever they drive. To keep the TV, VCR, CDs and see to it that every store and restaurant in the world their minds and break that union with Christ.” their PCs going constantly in their home and plays non-biblical music constantly. This will jam “Fill the coffee tables with magazines and newspapers. Pound their minds with the news 24 hours a day. Invade their driving moments with billboards. Flood their mailboxes with junk mail, mail order catalogs, sweepstakes, and every kind of newsletter and promotional offering free products, services and false hopes. Keep skinny, beautiful models on the magazines so the husbands will believe that external beauty is what’s important, and they’ll become dissatisfied with their wives. Ha! That will fragment those families quickly!” “Even in their recreation, let them be excessive. Have them return from their recreation exhausted, disquieted and unprepared for the coming week. Don’t let them go out in nature to reflect on God’s wonders. Send them to amusement parks, sporting events, concerts and movies instead. Keep them busy, busy, busy! And when they meet for spiritual fellowship, involve them in gossip and small talk so that they leave with troubled consciences and unsettled emotions. “Go ahead, let them be involved in soul winning; but crowd their lives with so many good causes they have no time to seek power from Jesus. Soon they will be working in their own strength, sacrificing their health and family for the good of the cause. It will work! It will work!” It was quite a convention. The evil angels went eagerly to their assignments causing Christians everywhere to get more busy and more rushed, going here and there. I guess the question is: Has the devil been successful at his scheme? You be the judge! Does “busy” mean: B-eing U-nder S-atan’s Y-oke? |
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Post by Dave on Oct 30, 2019 14:48:35 GMT -5
The satan Kabbalah
Those things we hold true:
Jews, Coptics, Gnostics, First Christians, all hold true
#1- God is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscience - therefore God is in absolute control - God's will is done!
Any doctine that suggest otherwise - just doesn't fit with what we hold true
Then aroud 465 AD - Rome usurped the faith, and a new doctrine is preached from Rome
#2- God - is not in control - an angel (one of the best) does not have to obey God
In fact this Fallen Angel is so worshiped by the other angels that 1/3rd of them prefer Satan to God
This doctrine is an elevation of satan and blaspheim to God
#3- Christians resist the truth of Isa 45:7 - but fail to explain their second creator
If God didn't create the RA then satan did with his Free Will - Now satan is a creator
- just doesn't fit with what we hold true
#4- Christian's say - Jews, Coptics, and Gnostics just don't understand #1, #2, or #3
Rome has corrected the understanding - Because - there are excuses - God allowed it, God meant it, God needed it to happen, or whatever
Jews, Coptics, and Gnostics just say - refer back to #1
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Post by Dave on Oct 30, 2019 22:01:37 GMT -5
Another interesting thing about Christian satan #1- No one of the 1% saw satan as Catholics do The Jews, the Coptics, and the Gnostic first Christians did not see it as the Catholics do No one of the 1% believed any of this as Jesus Christ walked this Earth. No one of this same 1% has changed their theology #2- All three of these 1% groups believe: Jews and the Reality of the Shediem Coptics and the Reality of the Watchers Gnostics and the Reality of the Archon #3- Before, during, and after Jesus Christ walked on Earth the 99% believed in good and evil gods #4- 465AD Rome usurps the faith via Constantine and begins the Edit of literatureThe Copts walk away and seek their Savior alone in the desert, and they save every writing they have. Jews are hated for murdering Jesus First Christian Gnostics are hunted into extinction because they won’t bow to Rome The Gnostic Cathars were hunted into extinction because they won’t bow to Rome Later Protestant Christians become hunted by inquisition #5- The Roman church becomes satan’s playground – idols, penances, demons are everywhere, demons cause disease, demons afflict the wicked – you need a Roman Priest to keep the demons away. Rome becomes the demonology experts and master exorcist. We call the era of the Roman Church the DARK AGES! #6- Today #1 is unaffected by Rome – remains pure to the Torah Today #2 is unaffected by Rome #7- Today Rome is the only group that have changed the doctrine to a theme of good and evil gods A good God that makes only TOV and a second creator god that created the RA Today – only Rome downplays the Reality of Eph 6:12 and rejects the truth of ‘know your enemy’ Demons, evil spirits are all mythological things from our pagan church past The Catholic presupposition is a later alteration to the faith away from its origin Not only does it elevate satan to a creator godhood, but it actively tried to edit the Reality of the Archon from literary existence. Rome did this to the faith, and what does Rome look like today? Today, Modern Roman Christendom ranges from Orthodox Vatican Sex and Financial Scandal to transgender female pastors preaching a tolerant God that will forgive almost anything. Mormanisn makes Christ and satan twin brothers #8- all the while #1 and #2 remain as they have always been.I am not a Catholic thinker, I follow what Scripture says. Yet, you seem to be on a personal mission to prove the Catholic view is more valid than Jewish, Coptic, or Gnostic view. If you are called to accept this Catholic view - who am I to judge - go for it All I can do is present the information I have discovered along my own souljourn If you must continue this discussion – the next evidence I want to see from you is any Jewish document from the era of Jesus that supports the Roman Catholic view. A I am not aware of avoiding any Rabbinic commentary. I don't avoid Hebrew words laid in the Scriptures. You have personally avoided the word "chata" and "cherub" in Scripture, even possibly admitting the entire scroll is questionable as inspired. Rabbinic Commentaries that you have not responded to: There are two ways to watch these videos 1- You can watch them as a Catholic and immediately stop listening and begin arguing 2- Or you can have an open mind and listen to it point Job - Read more: ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/409/judaism-job#ixzz63tcUiJVWAngels have no Free Will - Read more: ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/408/judaism-christianity-satan-rabbi-singer#ixzz63tczpvOTArchon are not a DIRCECT product of creation – but a by-product of creation – a consequence of creation - Read more: ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/408/judaism-christianity-satan-rabbi-singer#ixzz63td4oVUU |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2019 16:00:19 GMT -5
Dave: "If you must continue this discussion – the next evidence I want to see from you is any Jewish document from the era of Jesus that supports the Roman Catholic view.
You have written quite a challenge.
www.myjewishlearning.com/article/satan-the-adversary/
Interesting article, from a Jewish view.
jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/the-jewish-view-of-satan
This writing is much more stronger
Quote: "
Christian View
In Christian belief, Satan is a fallen angel that has freedom of choice and rebels against God. Christians conveniently use the “Satan, to explain any evil or irrational behavior (such as non belief in Jesus as messiah or god). The New Testament is fertile ground for this outlook. It is only here that Satan becomes a wicked, rebellious angel, which quite likely evolved the character called Satan into an evil angel and enemy of God based on theological Persian dualism where such a construct is present.
Jewish View
He (Satan) is clearly subordinate to God, a member of His suite (Heb. Bene ha-elokim), who is unable to act without his permission. Nowhere is he in any sense a rival of God. The Encyclopedia Judaica The Christian claim that it was Satan who created evil is utterly fraudulent according to our Tanach: I (God) form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7 God creates all things, not simply good things. There isn't a single verse in the entire Tanach that states that Satan ever created evil or ever disobeyed a command from God. Satan is an obedient servant of God in the Tanach who serves the role of man's accuser in God's court.
End quote"
Creation of Temptation
God created the temptation to do evil partially to test our loyalty, and partially to improve us. That is why the word (Satan- שטן) in Hebrew literally means an adversary (Numbers 22:22) that comes to challenge us. We find this notion throughout the Book of Job, where God gives permission to the Satan to challenge the righteous Job. In fact, one of the most dramatic and powerful expressions of man’s struggle with God and his conscience involves Job and Satan. God had given Satan permission to afflict Job with all manner of hardships and misfortune. In turn, Job loses his family and possessions, and is stricken with boils and disease. As he sits in sheer agony, his close colleagues remark, “Your piety is your foolishness.” Even his wife chews him out, saying, "Are you still holding fast to your integrity? Curse God, and die." But Job tells them, "You speak as one who is despicable. Should we accept only the good from God and not also accept the evil?”(Job 2:9‑10)
Conclusion
It is the mission of every conscientious person to overcome temptations and do what is correct. The Torah itself (Genesis 4:7) teaches that is a mission within our grasp to fulfill. There is nothing to fear from the temptations of the Satan when one is focused on Godliness and self-improvement.
www.haaretz.com/archaeology/.premium.MAGAZINE-do-jews-believe-in-the-devil-1.6588731
Do Jews Believe in the Devil?
Satan didn’t arise from Hell fully formed. The concept of an ultimate Evil One was apparently borrowed from the Persians and continued to evolve throughout antiquity
By Elon Gilad Oct 23, 2018 When Jews believed in multiple gods, there was no difficulty in explaining why bad things happen to good men.
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/satan
Judaism does not view “Satan” with the same connotation as other religions.
Satan in Judaism is not a physical being ruling the underworld, rather, in the Torah, the word Satan indicates “accuser,” “hinderer” or “tempter.” Satan is therefore more an illusory obstacle in one’s way - such as temptation and evil doings - keeping one from completing the responsibilities of tikkun olam (fixing the world). Satan is the evil inclination to veer off the path of righteousness and faithfulness in God.
Throughout the Torah, Satan challenges God to test the true loyalty of his followers, including Adam and Eve, as well as Abraham. However, Satan remains inferior to God and is incapable of taking action on mortals without God’s permission. In the Talmud and Midrash, Satan appears as the force in the world, responsible for all sins. Some Midrashim claim that the sounding of the Shofar on Rosh Hashanah is utilized to keep Satan away as Jews begin to atone for their sins. Even the morning after Yom Kippur, many Jews attend services to guarantee Satan does not make one last effort to instigate Jews to commit sins.
Rob: " Satan appears as the force in the world, responsible for all sins." This quote says the Jewish ideas best. Do you agree with this idea Dave?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archon_(Gnosticism)
Archons are, in Gnosticism and religions closely related to it, demonic entities subordinate to the embodiment of evil in the corresponding belief-system. Among the Archontics, Ophites, Sethians and in the writings of Nag Hammadi library, the archons are rulers, each related to one of seven planets; they prevent souls from leaving the material realm. In Manichaeism, the archons are the rulers of a realm within the 'Kingdom of Darkness', who together make up the Prince of Darkness
gnosis.org/naghamm/Hypostas-Barnstone.html
The Nag Hammadi Library
The Reality of the Rulers
(The Hypostasis of the Archons)
Translated by Willis Barnstone and Marvin Meyer
This original translation of The Reality of the Rulers (also known as The Hypostasis of the Archons, Nag Hammadi Codex II, 4) is presented in the Gnostic Society Library by permission and under license from Dr. Willis Barnstone, who retains all copyright. Dr. Barnstone's translations of the Nag Hammadi texts are published in The Gnostic Bible, © 2003, Willis Barnstone & Marvin Meyer.
Headings in bold type have been added to the text by the translators.
_____________________________________
SAMAEL’S SIN
Because of the reality of the authorities, inspired by the spirit of the father of truth, the great messenger referring to the authorities of the darkness told us that “our contest is not against flesh and blood, rather, the authorities of the universe and the spirits of wickedness.” I have sent you this because you inquire about the reality of the authorities.
Their chief is blind. Because of his power and his ignorance and his arrogance he said, with his power, “I am god; there is no other but me.”
When he said this, he sinned against all. This speech rose up to incorruptibility. Then there was a voice that came forth from incorruptibility, saying, “You are wrong, Samael,” that is, god of the blind.
His thoughts became blind. And having expelled his power—that is, the blasphemy he had spoken—he pursued it down to chaos and the abyss, his mother, at the instigation of Pistis Sophia. She established each of his offspring in conformity with its power, after the pattern of the realms that are above, for by starting from the invisible world the visible world was invented.
As incorruptibility looked down into the region of the waters, her image appeared in the waters, and the authorities of the darkness became enamored of her. But they could not lay hold of that image which had appeared to them in the waters, because of their weakness, since beings that merely have soul cannot lay hold of those that have spirit. For they were from below, while it was from above.
THE CREATION OF ADAM AND EVE
This is the reason why incorruptibility looked down into the region, so that, by the father’s will, she might bring all into union with the light.
The rulers laid plans and said, “Come, let us create a human that will be soil from the earth.” They modeled their creature as one wholly of the earth.
The rulers have bodies that are both female and male, and faces that are the faces of beasts. They took some soil from the earth and modeled their man, after their body and after the image of god that had appeared to them in the waters.
They said, “Come, let us lay hold of it by means of the form that we have modeled, so that it may see its male partner and we may seize it with the form that we have modeled,” not understanding the partner of god, because of their powerlessness. And he breathed into his face, and the man came to have a soul and remained on the ground many days. But they could not make him rise because of their powerlessness. Like storm winds they persisted in blowing, that they might try to capture that image which had appeared to them in the waters. And they did not know the identity of its power.
Now, all these events came to pass by the will of the father of all. Afterward the spirit saw the man of soul on the ground. The spirit came forth from the adamantine land. It descended and came to dwell in him, and that man became a living soul. And the spirit called his name Adam, since he was found moving upon the ground.
A voice came forth from incorruptibility for the assistance of Adam. The rulers gathered together all the animals of the earth and all the birds of heaven and brought them in to Adam to see what Adam would call them, that he might give a name to each of the birds and all the beasts.
The rulers took Adam and put him in the garden, that he might cultivate it and keep watch over it. They issued a command to him, saying, “From every tree in the garden shall you eat, but from the tree of knowledge of good and evil don’t eat, nor touch it. For the day you eat from it you will surely die.”
They said this to him, but they did not understand what they said. Rather, by the father’s will, they said this in such a way that he might in fact eat, and that Adam might not regard them as would a man of an exclusively material nature.
The rulers took counsel with one another and said, “Come, let us cause a deep sleep to fall on Adam.” And he slept. Now, the deep sleep that they caused to fall on him, and he slept, is ignorance. They opened his side, which was like a living woman. And they built up his side with some flesh in place of her, and Adam came to be only with soul.
The woman of spirit came to him and spoke with him, saying, “Rise, Adam.” And when he saw her, he said, “It is you who have given me life. You will be called ‘mother of the living.’ For she is my mother. She is the physician, and the woman, and she has given birth.”
ADAM AND EVE IN THE GARDEN
The authorities came up to their Adam. When they saw his female partner speaking with him, they became very excited and enamored of her. They said to one another, “Come, let us sow our seed in her,” and they pursued her. And she laughed at them for their foolishness and blindness. In their clutches she became a tree and left before them her shadowy reflection resembling herself, and they defiled it foully. And they defiled the seal of her voice, so that by the form they had modeled, together with their own image, they made themselves liable to condemnation.
Then the female spiritual presence came in the form of the snake, the instructor, and it taught them, saying, “What did he say to you? Was it, ‘From every tree in the garden shall you eat, but from the tree of recognizing evil and good do not eat’?”
The woman of flesh said, “Not only did he say ‘Don’t eat,’ but even ‘Don’t touch it. For the day you eat from it, you will surely die.’”
The snake, the instructor, said, “It is not the case that you will surely die, for out of jealousy he said this to you. Rather, your eyes will open and you will be like gods, recognizing evil and good.” And the female instructing power was taken away from the snake, and she left it behind, merely a thing of the earth.
And the woman of flesh took from the tree and ate, and she gave to her husband as well as herself, and those beings, who possessed only a soul, ate. And their imperfection became apparent in their lack of knowledge. They recognized that they were naked of the spiritual, and they took fig leaves and bound them around themselves.
Then the chief ruler came, and he said, “Adam, where are you?”—for he did not understand what had happened.
Adam said, “I heard your voice and was afraid because I was naked, and I hid.”
The ruler said, “Why did you hide, unless it is because you have eaten from the tree from which alone I commanded you not to eat? You have eaten!”
Adam said, “The woman you gave me gave me fruit and I ate.” And the arrogant ruler cursed the woman.
The woman said, “The snake led me astray and I ate.” They turned to the snake and cursed its shadowy reflection, so it was powerless, and they did not comprehend that it was a form they themselves had modeled. From that day, the snake came to be under the curse of the authorities. Until the perfect human was to come, that curse fell on the snake.
They turned to their Adam and took him and expelled him from the garden along with his wife, for they have no blessing, since they too are under the curse.
Moreover, they threw human beings into great distraction and into a life of toil, so that their human beings might be occupied by worldly affairs and might not have the opportunity of being devoted to the holy spirit.
I will try to highlight the Gnostic statements I don't like. Do you accept all this material I posted here as part of your belief?
Shalom
I will later discuss every highlighted phrase, but only if you see these statements as part of your belief.
Make your comments first on the black bold highlights. |
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Post by Dave on Oct 31, 2019 19:02:25 GMT -5
Belief? I hold somethings to be true = everything else is cosmology and could change with increased study
Christians use satan to excuse anything that is difficult to fit with their Kabbalah
Why did little Jimmy have to die – it is always satan’s fault
God created temptation? Hmmmm? Not exactly!
IMO – Isa 45:7 God created the TOV and RA – yes
Did god say let there be RA – NO – RA id an inherent byproduct of creation
Entropy is inherent in Negentropy – it is a consequence of the Negentropy
RA is inherent to – a byproduct of – a consequence of TOV / creation / Negentropy
Why is this true – Ask God – He made the Laws of the Universe
RA became unmanageable – chaos went to far in the GAP between Gen1:1 and Gen 1:2
And an angel stepped up to rule over the chaos in Hades
This angel’s job is to restrain RA – slow the entropy – to oversee the chaos
God sets the limits as in Job – satan makes sure those limits are not crossed
God does test us – He tested Job
Deut 13:3 James 1:2-4, James 1:12, Pslam 66:10, Psalm 26:2
1 Peter 1:7
The Contest
Satan as in Job – is a serving angel of the Lord
‘other gpds’ of the 99% are good and bad – bad evil free will Christian satan is a pagan god
Gnostics do not think the Archon an illusion – real – in body – in spirit – in man
YES – Job proves this!
Hmmmm? – I think I disagree here – remember Gnostic literature covers a lot of bazar stuff – I am a Gnostic Christian where Christ is always first. Just as you refuse to be called a Catholic – you are a SDA
Satan did not or does not ever create anything
Satan never created RA and does create RA now – Ra is inherent to negentropy / creation
IMO – the archon are products of the RA – they are agents of the RA They are the bane elohiym of Gen 6 and Job 2 – these are spirit beings – like angels s, but of different origin. Angels are beautiful – as in Lucifer. Archon are ugly and gross and were hidden in the darkness – they are agents of that darkness.
If unchecked – the archon would just possess your wife tonight and stab you to death – before your repentance. Satan is the restrainer – in Job God gave satan limits – satan intern restrains the archon.
Under satan – the archon present temptation to man
It is still man’s choice – man is responsible
Satan and team are guilty of making the sin choice attractive and without penalty
But it is still man’s choice
Satan doesn’t make us do anything – he just makes the choice attractive
Always trying to imitate, but not creators
I agree – male and female archon
RA comes from the female side of the duality – just as all TOV come from the male
Do you have a doubt who this chief ruler is?
Again – you are confuse about the perfect man to come to end the curse?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2019 6:18:21 GMT -5
Dave: "He (Satan) is clearly subordinate to God,
GOD is the creator of all things, so any creature has to be subordinate to GOD...
including any Being who opposes GOD.... you assume incorrectly such a Being is GOD's friend or a part of GOD's design for good.
Dave: "Isa 45:7 God created the TOV and RA – yes
Did god say let there be RA – NO
RA id an inherent by-product of creation
That can't be true, because you making GOD not clever enough to create things without RA by-products in it? By definition of GOD, your statement is wrong.
Dave: "Why is this true – Ask God – He made the Laws of the Universe
RA became unmanageable
That's ridiculous... GOD is no longer all powerful, no longer infinite. Because GOD can't manage His own creation. If the universe we have has constants with 121 decimal places of precision, GOD cannot find a groups of constants fine enough to create everything with TOV in it? My GOD is infinitely powerful, and Adam and Eve lived in a universe of complete TOV, no RA, no by-products of sin in it.
Dave: "And an angel stepped up to rule over the chaos in Hades
This angel’s job is to restrain RA – slow the entropy – to oversee the chaos
God sets the limits as in Job – satan makes sure those limits are not crossed
Where did Hades come? a by-product of GOD too? SO the angel helps GOD in HIS creation. Why can't GOD do this Himself? If an angel oversees chaos, that by definition makes that angel GOD, as powerful as GOD is. So Satan is GOD's servant, a helper, GOD good guy to keep Archons at bay, as the Archons are evil?
Dave:"Satan did not or does not ever create anything
Correct. Satan can't. Only GOD. so how on earth can you have Satan helping GOD restrain the chaos, and Hades???
Dave: "Archon are ugly and gross and were hidden in the darkness – they are agents of that darkness.
So Archons are the bad evil killing machines that are by-products of Creation, and Satan is the opponent for the Archons, who helps GOD deal with the Archons who wish to kill and destroy mankind?
SO where do these evil killing BEINGS come from? From GOD...by-products of creation.
Why would you want to worship a GOD that cannot create a perfect world? that has evil killing machines in it?
Dave:" If unchecked – the archon would just possess your wife tonight and stab you to death – before your repentance. Satan is the restrainer – in Job God gave satan limits – satan intern restrains the archon
So Satan is the good angel guy who helps GOD, and the Archons are the evil killing machines, a by-product of creation, from GOD? DO you really find sense in this?
Dave: "God does test us – He tested Job
NO, no, no, your playing with cruel words. so these evil killing archons are murderous raping Beings, or machines, by-products of GOD ability to poorly create things, so whether we like of not, we are tested if we love a god like this? Sorry this is not love, its force, and its evil.
Jas 1:13 ¶ Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
What does this passage mean? God does not test any man, but every man is tested by his own lust and Ra. And when Ra is conceived and bears fruit, it becomes sin, and brings forth death.
If man had Ra already in him as Adam and Eve did, as you claim, than they sinned as soon as they were created. As humans born normally already in a RA world, with RA in us from birth, we have now a disadvantage, but Adam had not this disadvantage? What do you make sin to be? Where does it come from? It has to be from RA?
Where else do we find sin as a seed, if its not Ra? And that means a Being has to be the doer of RA. Sure GOD makes your Ra you desire, created by GOD observable, but GOD does not morally do RA. RA has to be associated with sin. If its not associated with sin, you cannot describe what sin actually is.
Dave: "The rulers laid plans and said, “Come, let us create a human that will be soil from the earth.”
Who are these rulers?
Dave: "The rulers have bodies that are both female and male,
I agree – male and female archon
Are you saying the rulers of creating Adam from soil, were archons, not GOD?
Why are these gender male and gender female archons? What are archons? Where did they come from? What Hebrew word describes the Archons?
Dave: "the female spiritual presence came in the form of the snake,
RA comes from the female side of the duality – just as all TOV come from the male
So RA is a by-product of the Holy Spirit and TOV is a male of what?
Are you saying GOD has gender male and gender female BEINGS?
Dave: "Then the chief ruler came, and he said, “Adam, where are you?”—for he did not understand what had happened.
And the arrogant ruler cursed the woman.
Do you have a doubt who this chief ruler is?
Yes, who is the chief ruler? Father, Jesus or Archons? To say an arrogant rule cursed the woman, makes that ruler sin. GOD doesn't do sin or RA.
Coptic: "Until the perfect human was to come, that curse fell on the snake.
Wasn't Adam created perfect? your theory says Adam wasn't perfect at all, hence this statement. The Coptic writings are wrong. Adam sinned later didn't he. The perfect became imperfect. Your saying Adam was imperfect and sinned from Creation.
Coptic "And the arrogant ruler cursed the woman.
If this ruler is GOD, here the Coptic writes GOD sins before the woman. GOD does not do sin.
Coptic: "Then the chief ruler came, and he said, “Adam, where are you?”—for he did not understand what had happened.
GOD knew Adam sinned immediately... the Coptic writing writes falsely.
Coptic: "The rulers have bodies that are both female and male,
No where in Scripture is the Father written as gender male, nor the Holy Spirit as gender female, these Hebrew words only reference humans.
COPTIC: "The authorities came up to their Adam. When they saw his female partner speaking with him, they became very excited and enamored of her. They said to one another, “Come, let us sow our seed in her,” and they pursued her. And she laughed at them for their foolishness and blindness. In their clutches she became a tree and left before them her shadowy reflection resembling herself, and they defiled it foully.
So the archons raped Eve? Where did Archons come from ? GOD . SO God caused sin to come over Eve. That's not how I read my Scripture.
Coptic : "From every tree in the garden shall you eat, but from the tree of knowledge of good and evil don’t eat, nor touch it. For the day you eat from it you will surely die.”
Clearly Coptic writes from human translation, it's not divine... sometimes it seems inspired, but sometimes its not inspired..."surely die" is KJV words, not Hebrew. Clearly the Coptic does not know anything original. And written after KJV.
Also "good and evil" are KJV words, thus Coptic is NOT original.
Coptic : "It is you who have given me life. You will be called ‘mother of the living.’
Eve did not make Adam living. the Holy Spirit did. This statement is false.
Jews: "It is the mission of every conscientious person to overcome temptations and do what is correct.
Why? If GOD can't make a world with only good in it, why worship GOD at all? If good and evil came naturally into GOD's world, than we do humans have to overcome evil?
Something is wrong with your theory .
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Post by Dave on Nov 1, 2019 12:47:11 GMT -5
Second Law of Thermodynamics - Isolated systems spontaneously evolve towards thermodynamic equilibrium, the state with maximum entropy. RA became unmanageable – do you have any idea what is going on in the world? Something is keeping Islam from destroying Israel – Israel is outnumbered and out gunned collectively Something is restraining the system The definition of RA is unmanageability – how do you describe decay? So now you do not believe in any unseen realm – no heaven – heavens – dimensions? – If you are using Greek terminology - You mean to say Tartarus . Hades = Hell = Dante’s Infernal – is another Catholic myth In Greek = hades = unseen – it never means or meant anything different until 1611 All Jews go to Sheol – some go to Gehenna All Greeks go to hades – some go to Tartarus Christians - especially Baptist all go to Dante's Infernal I know you are just busting my chops – and that’s OK Scott Morrison is Australia’s Prime Minister, and Australia was a paradise 500 years ago. Then white man arrived. Today – human refuse is everywhere (man the only animal that makes non-biodegradable trash) I am a loyal Morrison supporter. The PM ask me to be an important part of his government. Of course I say YES! – The job is to oversee the sanitation department. I have my own office and title. I have a staff of thousands and one of the biggest budgets in government. According to you – I am = with the PM – I can make Laws for Australia and even take Australia to war Of course the PM could take care of the trash himself. But he doesn’t – He has a staff for that. Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempteth no man: The Creator makes the rules / laws – satan just manages his sub-department Gen 1:27 And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Image of God male and femaleChrist – is male Spirit = a female word (Chuck Missler says He – because it is always the Father that is speaking through the Holy Spirit) Jews have – Shekinah (explain that one!) Catholics are the only male ‘only club’ Created perfect and immortal – and with FREE WILL that he chose to disobey – he proved himself inperfect. Jesus Christ is the perfect human – he had an animal side just like Adam – but Jesus never made the choice to disobey – Jesus Christ is the only Perfect Human – as a Christian you should believe this So now Eastern Christianity – the very Christians that are being beheaded in Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and Turkey – is not as good as Western Catholic Christendom – Judge NOT! - Was this scripture or a commentary - you qout Adam Clark a lot - should I make a big complaint that he isn't scripture? The Jews simply recognize the Contest for what it is – How Gnostic of them For Jews, Coptics, Gnostics – and Catholics – this is the promise Fundamental Belief #25 of the Seventh-day Adventist Church states: The second coming of Christ is the blessed hope of the church, the grand climax of the gospel. The Saviour's coming will be literal, personal, visible, and worldwide. When He returns, the righteous dead will be resurrected, and together with the righteous living will be glorified and taken to heaven, but the unrighteous will die. (Wiki) The New Earth is an expression used in the Book of Isaiah (65:17 & 66:22), 2 Peter (3:13), and the Book of Revelation (21:1) in the Bible to describe the final state of redeemed humanity. It is one of the central doctrines of Christian eschatology and is referred to in the Nicene Creed as the world to come. Question #1– do you doubt God will do this? Don’t you believe in the Kingdom of Heaven to come after Christ returns? Question #2- Is this the world in which we find ourselves? NO! We are still in the contest You don’t have to – THAT IS THE ENTIRE POINT! Don’t you get it.The world tells you there is nothing to believe in – your soul knows better. Do you listen to the world – or to the urging of your soul to wake up and know the Lord You do not have to follow the Torah! – It is your choice – that is the point of being trapped here in this souljourn – choose – choose mitzvah – or choose sin = always the choice is yours The Koran says this is why the Jinn hate us This is why the Gnostics say the archon hate us We can choose – they cannot Catholic Feel Good doctrine error: Genesis 12:3 And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse Proverbs 3:33 The curse of the LORD is on the house of the wicked, Malachi 2:2 "If you do not listen, and if you do not take it to heart to give honor to My name," says the LORD of hosts, "then I will send the curse upon you and I will curse your blessings; and indeed, I have cursed them already, because you are not taking it to heart. Metaphorically – absolutely You are looking at an ancient text without any Roman edit Judaism – have the story of Lillith – She seduced Adam and they had children together who became problematic. The Jews say this all happened (Spiritually) on day 6. Earth is a reflection of heave above – Adam and Lilith in the heavens – Adam and Eve on Earth. Gnostic say, it was of the female Holy Spirit that gave rise to the Chief Archon out of creation Entropy seduces Negentropy – always by definition and function and the Archon are the result of entropy – to tear down – to destroy, Gnostic say this happened in the first aeon (the first age - spirit only stage of creation) this is place in the GAP between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2 - on day 1 - right from the beginning If you are a Christian Ezk 28 and Isa 14 happened in the GAP (at least they got the timuing corrct - if not the event) Let me say this again about the Roman Edit and the Nag Hammadi textThe scripture we have today is exactly what God intended. Reading these other scripts requires a lot of tolerance as to doctrine. But I do admit that even with the accepted scripture there is a range of acceptability. Sometimes these other scripts say the most bizarre things. Makes me wonder. , ahl, agl, Coptic, Gnostic – any: Ponder Modern Scripture as you read this Nag Hammadi Library, Introduction, by James Robinson “… the text are not to be thought of as coming from one group or movement… … one of them, The Gospel of Thomas, begins with a word to the wise: ‘Whoever finds the interpretations of these sayings will not experience death.’ Thus the text can be read at two levels: what the original author may have intended to communicate and what the texts may subsequently have been taken to communicate. … … The texts were translated one by one from Greek into Coptic, and not always by translators capable of grasping the profundity or sublimity of what they sought to translate. The translator of a brief section of Plato’s republic clearly did not understand the text. … Fortunately, most text are better translated, but when there are duplications one can sense what a difference the better translation makes in comparison to a poor translation – which leads one to wonder about the bulk of texts that exist in only a single version. There is the same kind of hazard in the transmission of the text by a series of scribes who copied them, generation after generation, from increasing corrupt copies, first in Greek, then in Coptic. The number of unintentional errors is hard to estimate, since such a thing as a clean control copy does not exist; nor does one have, as in the case of the Bible, a quantity of manuscripts of the same text that tend to correct each other when compared.” Thank you Rome! To this I will add – Roman Edit – and Roman Polish so that it all reads nicely |
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Post by Dave on Nov 1, 2019 15:23:43 GMT -5
Gen 3:17 cursed is the ground for thy sake
Gen 8:21 I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake
How do you curse dirt and rock? Entropy!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2019 15:59:01 GMT -5
You do a fairly good job of replying, but the overall problem of the Gnostic writings is they do not with 100% precision line up with Hebrew torah, and the Bible says to the torah first and the witness (other books such as Gnostic writings, I accept that) if they don't line us there is not light in them. They don't line up. Period. Mostly it does, but it has to be 100% precise. I can tolerate things that add to the torah if it's not there, but not comments that make the torah wrong. Some problems in a simple form: 1) no Hebrew word for archon as a being or by-product of creation...nothing 2) Ra means entropy yes, the beginning of sin, has to be... your model cannot explain a God of love. You cannot have a GOD also of cursing, killing and dealing with unmanageable RA, this make GOD no longer a GOD of love. You do not have other solutions to the problem, but I do. 3) In the new heavens and new earth, there is no Ra. No need to dust floors. No need of electricity. No rain. No loss of heat. No friction. How do we walk without friction, I don't know. Pick a flower and it doesn't die. These are thing we have never heard of. A world of only Tov, no Ra. 4) God is referenced as maleness-love and femaleness-love but not as gender male or gender female Hebrew terms. So we I read writings that do not make this distinction, its not inspired. The same with the term "surely die". And inspired person would write "muwth muwth" differently but the translation of Coptic does NOT do this. So the text tells me its wrong, only of human origin. In contrast I tested EGW writings against Jeff Benner for over 30 words, using the balance of probabilities that her writings are inspired. They have to be 100% precise. spiritualsprings.org/ss-1061.htmI test words and themes not found in the SDA world, way beyond them. Into the world of Hebrew torah. Everything agrees, though sometimes I was challenged. Shalom |
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Post by Dave on Nov 1, 2019 16:53:15 GMT -5
They don't line up. Period. Mostly it does, but it has to be 100% precise. Mathew and Luke do not line up word for word 100% precise - the birth of Jesus is at least 12 years apart Which one of these Gospels do you thow out? Acts - Steven says the paterarchs are buried in Sceckiem - the Torah says Hebron The Rabbinic argument about Ezekiel = the instructions for the temple - same temple different rules for the priest Word for word - line for line - you over look some and yet attack writtings that never made the claim to be inspired. Opps! - your wrong - just cuz you don't know it doesn't mean it doesn't exist You should really just let a Rabbi explain it Gnostic Archon = Christian Demons = Jewish Sheidim = Islamic Jinn Read more: ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/408/judaism-christianity-satan-rabbi-singer#ixzz6447TOtw8 |
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Post by Dave on Nov 1, 2019 17:26:53 GMT -5
List of bastard New Testament verses inserted into the Textus Receptus Bibles
The New Testament verses not included in modern English translations are verses of the New Testament that existed in older versions of the Bible (primarily the King James Version), but did not appear or were relegated to footnotes in later versions, such as the New International Version. Scholars generally regarded these verses as later additions to the original text.
How do the know – Gospel of Mark was written by at least three people – different prose and vocabularies – all mixed into one text
Bastard texts are those that have been inserted into the textus receptus that are NOT FOUND in any other codex - The only respect the textus receptus is the fact it was the one base for Martin Luther and Willian Tyndell
(1) Matthew 17:21
(2) Matthew 18:11
(3) Matthew 23:14
(4) Mark 7:16
(5 & 6) Mark 9:44 & 9:46
(7) Mark 11:26
(8) Mark 15:28
(9) Luke 17:36
(10) John 5:3–4
(11) Acts 8:37
(12) Acts 15:34
(13) Acts 24:6–8
(14) Acts 28:29
(15) Romans 16:24
(16) 1 John 5:7–8
To this list is newly added:
Joh 6:4 And the passover, a feast of the Jews, was nigh.
Jesus ministry was not 3 ½ years – it was 70 weeks
Line by line – word for word – how much of the agl is unacceptable to you?
Why is the agl held to a much looser standard? Isn’t it also inspired?
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