Elohiym by Gordon Nemeniah

[Dave]

ROB" Jesus CHrist is divine and never was created.. He is YHWH from all eternity.
Dave" three members of the Godhead? – how can two gods be the same?
How can Jesus Christ (a man) be the Creator YHWY
How can Jesus Christ pray to YHWY if they are the same god – (your argument)

Rob" The word YHWH is a function not the name of a single being. The word means "he who exists"
AGAIN YOU OPENLY DENY MONOTHIESM – don’t you mean “THEY who exist?”
----------------------------------------------------

There are two masculine members of divinity with this functional description, the father-YHWH and the son-YHWH. These are termed strong authorities, not gods.
YHWY is not god?
Your true teaching is finally coming out – more satan worship
--------------------------------------------------

ROB" Jesus CHrist is divine .. He is YHWH from all eternity.
Dave" Do you agree with yourself or not?
Rob" Yes Jesus is YHWH from all eternity as the YHWH.
You teach that biology is divine and pre-existed biology
You teach that god is biology
Please explain your religious garbage

Dave" What was Jesus if He was not biology?
Just more Robert contradiction
ROb" Jesus was YHWH clad in humanity
Please explain your religious garbage

When prophecy came, He took up biology adding it to His divinity. Now the YHWH has humanity added to it, thus encapsulating the divinity with humanity. Two natures if you will.
Man has only one nature, a biological one.
Explain your religious garbage
How is this different than Jesus Christ (yester ra biology – Jesus) + (Christ – the image of God)
How is this different than God incarnate?
How is this different thn Christ souljourning here in the Temple of skin?
You absolute deny this teaching – then post it as your own?
When are you going to start being honest or serious?

Dave" You teach it is a marriage
ROb" correct, echad, all three members are oneness by marriage design, they are not joined together as one as the meaning of yachad means.

Dec 14, 2023 6:14:33 GMT -5 rob said:

ROB" You cannot put elohiym into a father and mother function with celestial sex making a first born Son. GOD is not like this,

You teach it is a marriage
Both mother HS and father God came upon Mary who was just a surrogat

Dave" three members of the Godhead = multiple gods = a pantheon = polytheistic
ROb" maybe if they were yachad together, as Scripture says of humans
NOT MAYBE – ABSOLUTELY NOT MONOTHIESTIC!
-----------------------------------------

Dave" It is MORE CORRECT to say Christianity is a Paulian cult
ROb" Only you would say this as you consider Paul a Gnostic, whereas I don't. Paul was Jesus witness to Jesus teachings of the latter torah.

Paul and Gnosis
The Gospel Coalition - www.thegospelcoalition.org › themelios › review
This volume, however, is not only concerned with Gnosticism but also with Paul's appeal to knowledge.

Paul's Gnostic heritage
Vridar - vridar.org › 2011/10/20 › pauls-gnostic-heritag...
Oct 20, 2011 — Paul was in the religion when all its members were mystical “Gnostics” — almost a century before the origin of the heresy about a human Jesus ...

paul's gospel: a synthesis of gnosticism, mystery religions ...
Freeservers.com - paulproblem.faithweb.com › paul_synthesis
But, unlike Judaism and the religion of Jesus, Paul believes, as does Gnosticism, that the world has come under the control of an evil power; the Earth is ...

What the Church doesn't tell you about PAUL - YouTube
YouTube · Gnostic Informant

Do Not Be Fooled! The New Testament Is Gnostic! - YouTube
YouTube · The Exodus Project -
The Gnostic Gospels · Is Paul the Founder of Christianity? · He's Studied 1,000+ Near-Death Experiences and Says This Is Why He ...

Did St. Paul Invent Christianity?
Catholic Answers - www.catholic.com › magazine › print-edition
Jul 1, 2009 — Jesus believed that he had been sent by God to “bring Israel's history to its climax” and Paul believed that Jesus had succeeded in this ...

The Gnostic Paul: Gnostic Exegesis of the Pauline Letters
Goodreads - www.goodreads.com › book › show
She also shies away from drawing in bold strokes the rather obvious conclusion: Paul was a gnostic. The articles of Christian faith--the virgin birth, the ...

The Gnostic Paul's Intense Conflict in Galatians 1 and 2
noncanonicalchristianity.com- www.noncanonicalchristianity.com › the-gnosti...
May 27, 2021 — For the Gnostic Paul, this spy would have been a psychic Christian serving under the apostles, meant to bring the pneumatic Christians back ...

HUU Sermon Archives - The Gnostic Paul
Harrisonburg Unitarian Universalists
huuweb.org › Sermons › gnostic-paul
HUU Sermon Archives - The Gnostic Paul. The study of the early Christian Church ... church would be founded. From this conviction arose the belief in the direct ...

part 2 Paul and Gnosticism
Brill - brill.com › downloadpdf › book › edcoll
So much so that a century ago, at the heyday of the History-of-. Religions approach to the nt and the beginning of the quest for pre-Christian. Gnosticism, ...

Was Paul or Jesus the true founder of Christianity and why?
ResearchGate - www.researchgate.net › post › Was_Paul_or_Jesus...
Aug 18, 2013 — Jesus was Christ, but Paul was Christian. Therefore one could count Paul as founder of Christianity. These ideas come from Miguel de Unamuno, " ...

The Gnostic Paul | work by Pagels
Britannica - www.britannica.com › topic › The-Gnostic-Paul
... Religion. Early in her career, Pagels established herself as a leading scholar of early Christianity and gnosticism (a dualistic religious movement ...

Gnosticism: Origin, Meaning and Relation to ...
Christianity.com - www.christianity.com › ... › AD 1-300
Dec 22, 2022 — Gnosticism was a notable heretical movement of the 2nd-century Christian Church, partially of pre-Christian origin. The gnostic doctrine taught ...

Paul The Gnostic Opponent Of Peter And Not An Apostle ...
Amazon - www.amazon.com › Gnostic-Opponent-Apostle...
""Paul The Gnostic Opponent Of Peter And Not An Apostle Of Historic Christianity"" is a book written by Gerald Massey that challenges the traditional view ...

Gnosticism
Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy - iep.utm.edu › gnostic
By declaring that it is the role and task of the “elect” or Gnostic Christian to use up death and nullify the world, Valentinus is making clear his position ...

Why is Saint Paul considered gnostic? (by some)
Christianity Stack Exchange - christianity.stackexchange.com › questions › w...
Apr 25, 2016 — "Paul's" systematic theology declares that he is God and Christ; and all men are Gods and Christs. This is gnosticism. "Paul" declares that Adam ...

Gnosticism: Where It Comes From, What It…
Zondervan Academic - zondervanacademic.com › Blog
Jul 9, 2019 — The origins of Gnosticism are still a bit unclear. Some think Gnosticism originated as a heresy that diverged from orthodox Christian teaching, ...

Was Saint Paul a gnostic Christian?
Quora - www.quora.com › Was-Saint-Paul-a-gnostic-Chris...
Aug 30, 2015 — Saint Paul is considered to be a Gnostic because he preached Gnostic doctrines in his letters which modern Christians are completely ignorant of. Paul's ideas ...

Four Paul and Gnostic Dogma
DOI - doi.org › columbia
the traditional covenant spirituality of his ancestors. The new religion that was built out of Paul's profound ecstatic experience and his reevaluation of his ...

Gnosticism Didn't Exist (Say What Now?)
Richard Carrier Blogs - www.richardcarrier.info › archives
Aug 31, 2020 — It's scandalous to say, because so much pop theorizing about early Christianity is anchored to it, but it turns out, Gnosticism was never ...

Paul – The first theologian? A Diluted Gnosticism
JesusNeverExisted - www.jesusneverexisted.com › corinth2
Paul, tireless founder of churches and evangelist extraordinaire, is also the first – and most influential – theologian of the Church. The seeds of ...

The Gnostic Jesus by Paul Amatucci - Ebook - Everand
everand.com - www.everand.com › book › The-Gnostic-Jesus
The Gnostics argued that Christ had taught that the true Eternal Father who sent him into the world

Gnostic Exegesis of the Pauline Letters. Philadelphia
ltet.net - ltet.net › download › HristovaR-8-24-2022
Aug 27, 2022 — becomes the church champion challenger of “the gnostic Paul” (162). If Paul was antignostic, how could the Gnostics claim him as their great ...

Dave" It is MORE CORRECT to say Christianity is a Paulian cult
ROb" Only you would say this as you consider Paul a Gnostic, whereas I don't. Paul was Jesus witness to Jesus teachings of the latter torah.
IT IS MORE CORRECT TO SAY – Robert has no idea of church history or an understanding of Gnosticism
Robert just argues against the word Gnostic –
Robert does NOT understand what he is saying – and does not want to understand – he just argues words

Dave" Ellen White said – wrote – published :
"In order to let Jesus into our hearts, WE MUST STOP SINNING".
Signs of the Times, March 3, 1898
"To be redeemed means to CEASE FROM SIN".
Review & Herald, September 25, 1900
ROB" These ideas come from JOHN, as I have already shown to you.
Dave" Ellen White teaches it is IMPOSSIBLE to be redeemed
Ellen White teaches against / denies the GRACE of God
Ellen White teaches against Jesus Christ
ROB" stop misquoting and inventing false ideas Dave.
SHow me the Ellen White passages for these weird ideas of yours?

Dec 15, 2023 5:50:35 GMT -5 rob said:

Greetings Dave

Rather than mock, discuss my discussion,
Read the full passage of context"

Many see much to admire in the life of Christ. But true love for him can never dwell in the heart of the self-righteous. Not to see our own deformity is not to see the beauty of Christ's character. When we are fully awake to our own sinfulness, we shall appreciate Christ. The more humble are our views of ourselves, the more clearly we shall see the spotless character of Jesus. He who says, “I am holy, I am sinless,” is self-deceived. Some have said this, and some even dare to say, “I am Christ.” To entertain such a thought is blasphemy. Not to see the marked contrast between Christ and ourselves is not to know ourselves. He who does not abhor himself can not understand the meaning of redemption. To be redeemed means to cease from sin. No heart that is stirred to rebellion against the law of God has any union with Christ, who died to vindicate the law and exalt it before all nations, tongues, and peoples. Pharisaic self-complacency and bold assumptions of holiness are abundant. There are many who do not see themselves in the light of the law of God. They do not loathe selfishness; therefore they are selfish. Their souls are spotted and defiled. Yet with sin-stained lips they say, “I am holy. Jesus teaches me that the law of God is a yoke of bondage. Those who say that we must keep the law have fallen from grace.”

Dave" 100% of your anti-scriptural tradition comes from Ellen White
ROB" No it doesn't, all my teachings come from the torah. Stop making things up.
Do you support Ellen White as a prophet equal with Gnostic Paul or not?
Do you support the teaching that her words are equal with Paul as SDA claim – or not?

I have tested her word meanings against Jeff benner meanings in Hebrew. Her English meanings match Hebrew meanings perfectly.
The same argument is made in the Greek by CEASAR’S MESSIAH
Why is one true and the other false?

Dave" So- from your answers here – there really is no difference between Ellen Whites alternative christianity than any of the other alternative christianities from the Second Great Awakening
ROB" there are many major differences, all to do with reading torah correctly
Correct – none of these Second Great Awakening teach Christianity
They all offer an alterative religion

Most main churches say the righteous dead go to heaven straight away, while SDA teach the dead sleep in the grave until Jesus calls them.
These are the two bigger differences.
Correct – you deny the spirit and the spiritual
You teach there is no punishment for sin – no hell - just sleep until you awake up and cease to exist

Dave" Please explain Ellen White’s Covenant Theology
NO RESPONSE FROM ROBERT
ROb" ask a question I can understand? I do not understand? In the last days Jerusalem plays a pivotal role in the gospel commission to the whole world. So I do not understand your question?

In the thread – IS 1948 ISRAEL PROPHETIC – you refuse to take a stand
Teaching instead that it is all spiritual – not on the ground
Yet – you deny the spiritual and say there is no such thing as spirit

ROb" I have asked you for a scholar who uses satanas and archons in a sentence or passage?
You published a book on this idea, so where are your references?

The question is not about demons Dave, but WHO are the demons? WHERE did the demons come from?
Answer – They are all the BEAST – the serpent race – that we call devils and satanas (G4567) – DUH
Answer – They are all the demons of the OT – other gods and shedim (Beelzebub)
They are called archon by the first and second century Pentecostal Messianic Jews (Christians)
God established a Contest between man and man’s seed –vs- the serpent and the serpent’s seed – Gen 3:15
They are our real struggle – Eph 6:12
They were created by God for God – Col 1:16
They were created for God – His Plan – His Will – Rev 4:11
If the BEAST exist – God made him – John 1:3

My quest to you is show me your theories, from scholars using words like "satanas" and "archons", which you have not done as yet.

Eph 6:12 For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

Col 1:16 for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;

OUR REAL STRUGGLE as Christians is with the:
the NON-FLESH AND BLOOD principalities ARCHON (G746), against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. - invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities ARCHON (G746) or powers

WHO were all created by God for God

If OUR REAL STRUGGLE as Christians is NOT with the:
Rev 12:9 - the great dragon - the old serpent, - that is called the Devil and satanas (G4567), the deceiver of the whole world;

Then who are the Principalities of Eph 6:12 – in Ellen White imaginary denial land

Why do you work so hard to deny the spiritual realm and the evil spirit demons that hinder man’s worship of the HS?

[Dillon]

If OUR REAL STRUGGLE as Christians is NOT with the:
Rev 12:9 - the great dragon - the old serpent, - that is called the Devil and satanas (G4567), the deceiver of the whole world;
Then who are the Principalities of Eph 6:12 – in Ellen White imaginary denial land

Robert cannot admit the truth of scripture.
If he agrees that the principalities are our real struggle:
then the Ezk 28 idea of his satan god being self-made is error

Robert cannot admit the truth of scripture.
If he agrees that the principalities are our real struggle, who were created by god for god:
Then the Ezk 28 idea of his satan god being self-made is error.

Then the Catholic invention of Ezk 28 fallen angels, who made themselves against god’s will, is error.
Then all of Ellen White’s satan teaching is error
Then Ellen White’s Great Controversy between two gods is error

Therefore, Robert cannot admit the truth of scripture; because he would be admitting that all his teaching is satanic error and just an alternative religion to monotheistic Judeo-Christianity.

[rob]

Greetings Dave

Happy Sabbath

Dave" AGAIN YOU OPENLY DENY MONOTHIESM – don’t you mean “THEY who exist?”
Rob" No, "he who exists" since the term relates to one strong authority at a time, not all of them collectively.

Here is a verse with both strong authorities at the same time functioning at the same time, in two different locations, at the same time:-

Ge 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Some Jewish commentary does not acknowledge this as YHWH, but three angels.

I would translate this verse as

Ge 19:24 Then the SON-LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the FATHER-LORD out of heaven;

The word YHWH has two masculine strong authorities in the word, if you look. H is the hey letter "Behold the divine being"

Jewish commentary denies the meaning of this letter in this way, Jeff Benner is only in this aspect.

You also forget NOT all Jews accept MONOTHIESM. Some Jews read the torah as the torah reads.

Rabbi Cahn speaks of the plurality within elohiym, in his trinity videos.

Ge 20:13 And it came to pass, when God caused me to wander from my father's house, (KJV - poorly translated)

Ge 20:13 And it came to pass, when Elohiym's caused me to wander from my father's house,

Here the context makes the plural term elohiym, more plural, hence the verse is writing something that difficult to fathom.

Even Gordon talks about this, but chooses to ignore the implications, in favour of the bulk of verses where elohiym does not have this problem. Is this fair to the torah? No

Dave" YHWY is not god?
Your true teaching is finally coming out
ROB" You are disrespectful sir. Your use of the term God is always a reference to elohiym. And YHWH is not the same as elohiym. YHWH is the same as EL. Why arn't you respectful to all the terms of Hebrew word meanings like I am?

Elohiym is oneness, hence we have monotheism.

YWHH is a functional term to describe divine strong authorities who are masculine providers.

EL is a word meaning a single strong authority. The word means this for all contexts, Trees, idols, mountains and reindeer can be described as strong authorities, and so can the heavenly divine powers as a being.

The only English word here that can mean GOD is elohiym.

KJV translate YHWH as LORD, and this is fine, notice they do not translate YHWH as GOD. So they are respectful too.

Ge 19:24 Then the SON-God rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the FATHER-God out of heaven; ( a terrible disrespectful translation showing polytheism and making a mockery of the various Hebrew words for elohiym powers)

The King James version is very nice and respectful, start understanding why they do the things they do. Even if they are fuzzy at times, they are respectful to the word meanings.

Dave" You teach that biology is divine and pre-existed biology
You teach that god is biology
Please explain your religious garbage
ROB" Are you OK? Can't you understand word meanings in a sentence?

I said this "Yes Jesus is YHWH from all eternity as the YHWH.

And later I said this" When prophecy came, He took up biology adding it to His divinity. Now the YHWH has humanity added to it, thus encapsulating the divinity with humanity.

Why must you mock saying "religious garbage", I have never said your Gnostic views is garbage have I? Please quote me for being disrespectful to you sir?

Notice if angels are ethereal as Jewish commentary claims, how can the angels shift forms to be like humans and have sex with them, UNLESS they under go the same BORN process as Jesus did when He was and still is YHWH?

You require CREATOR process for this incarnation of YHWH into humanity. I do not read of any angels undergoing a creative process by GOD, in order to have sex with humans. Hence the Gen 6 is a myth and a terrible use of logic.

However if you throw Gnostic writings into the mix, than all kinds of weird things are possible, but the torah says NOT to add writings to the torah. Only GOD can add to His torah, as GOD is the author, the humans are his pen.
=======

You ask questions so much brevity I fail to grasp what it is you are asking?

D" How is this different than Jesus Christ (yester ra biology – Jesus) + (Christ – the image of God)


You say Jesus is biology but Christ is an expression of the Father. Hence you make a weird entity, the Father is clad in biiology as the right hand expression. Explain to me how the Father can have a real son, if the expression is NOT a real son, only a projection of the Father? You are role playing with words, violating the literal sense of the word meanings 'father and son'.

Instead in my view the Father and the Son are both uncaused causes from eternity, all came into existence at once, as a designed echad of oneness, Not three members that are joined as one. Some SDA offshoots says the Father called out a Son in some eternity long ago, but this violates the concept of designed echad oneness.

So you view is very different to my view.

D" How is this different than God incarnate?


Rob" What does God incarnate mean to you?

Before the time, Son-YHWH was fully divine, after the time the SON-YHWH is still fully divine. I do not see what you are trying to say? The only difference between before and after time, is the verse in Luke 1 :35

Lu 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

During the time, the heavenly parents functionly born a humanity over the SON-YHWH encapsulating the SON-YHWH with humanity.

Dave" You absolute deny this teaching – then post it as your own?
When are you going to start being honest or serious?
ROb" You need to write several pages of your own view, so readers can fully understand your view.

You split Jesus and Christ into parts

Your being is really just the Father clad to look masculine in biological form?

You do not have a father and a son, as humans understand this term, you are role playing.

Please be honest with your readers.


Dave" NOT MAYBE – ABSOLUTELY NOT MONOTHIESTIC!
ROB" But elohiym is not yachad, elohiym is echad.

So the elohiym power is designed with oneness.

Just as marriage is designed with oneness. God built the partner within the adam kind. Hence the two are not yachad into one echad. They are designed as echad to be oneness. Try to fathom the differences in the Hebrew words.

Yachad is not a designed oneness, it is an active coming together for oneness, so also implies a dissolving of oneness, a breaking apart.

Not so with echad. It is designed with oneness.

For example:- 

evening and morning a unit  called day.
Here the termed day and night is not joined to make a yom, but are designed as a yom, including night time and day time.

Dave" Do Not Be Fooled! The New Testament Is Gnostic!
ROb" Prove a single doctrinal verse of Paul is Gnostic.

Compare the Greek NT of Paul to the Hebrew OT of the Moses torah, and show us they are different.

I will show you they are the same torah, the same truth.

Dave" Saint Paul is considered to be a Gnostic because he preached Gnostic doctrines in his letters which modern Christians are completely ignorant of.
ROB" really Dave" ANother topic, must we move unto another topic when you failed to change over the ones we have already discussed?

Dave" IT IS MORE CORRECT TO SAY – Robert has no idea of church history or an understanding of Gnosticism
Robert just argues against the word Gnostic –
Robert does NOT understand what he is saying – and does not want to understand – he just argues words
ROB" I read this by Paul

1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of Gnosis falsely so called:

Why is Paul preaching against Gnosis, if Paul is a preacher of Gnosis? Something is not right?

Choose ONE doctrinal thing about Paul, Dave and create a thread to prove Paul is Gnostic. Make sure the doctrinal point does not exist in the Moses account, the OT torah.

Dave" Do you support Ellen White as a prophet equal with Gnostic Paul or not?
ROb" Ellen White is a translator, Paul is a preacher in the latter torah. I see different functions here.

Dave" Do you support the teaching that her words are equal with Paul as SDA claim – or not?
ROB" DO you support the words of the King James translation as the truth of the hebrew? What are you saying Dave?

You claim to trust the KJV words, so you do not translate the KJV words do you? but you are a Greek translator?

I use my translator Ellen White to verify the KJV translation and make sure the words I read are true in Hebraic nature.

Dave" The same argument is made in the Greek by CEASAR’S MESSIAH
Why is one true and the other false?
Rob" never heard of it. show a download link where I can download hundreds of pages to test the words written.

I have tested Martin Luther words, and he gets a 70% pass. (may not have enough words from Luther?)

I have tested Ellen White word, and she gets a 100% pass.

SO make sure the download gets hundreds of pages of words. The bigger the better.


Dave" You teach there is no punishment for sin – no hell - just sleep until you awake up and cease to exist
ROb" mock again, sure we are rewarded for evil deeds in a punishing fire, if you are crooked. The straight are redeemed by Jesus.

Dave" In the thread – IS 1948 ISRAEL PROPHETIC – you refuse to take a stand
ROb" SO I do not offer any insight. SO? I am not an expert on all matters?

Dave" Yet – you deny the spiritual and say there is no such thing as spirit
ROB" I do not deny "medium", I offer a different explanation. Why does this bother you?
=====================

I have asked you for a scholar who uses satanas and archons in a sentence or passage?
You published a book on this idea, so where are your references?

Still waiting.

I notice Dillon is posting against me, am I allowed to reply?

I notice not a single discussion about the passage of Ellen White, so what does this mean? Are you agreeing with the passage? Salvation is a lifetime journey with Salvation the Person.

When creature with intelligence, like the angels in the Sinai files reason with intelligence against Moses the human coming to get the laws of God, than any being with higher intelligence can choose to oppose the laws, which the Sinai files say the angels don't choose to oppose.

The Ezekiel 28 says a cherub chata, meaning some angels did choose to sin. Just the same as humans choose to sin. This makes the creatures oppose GOD who never sins.
This idea of mine is suported by Jewish preacher Rabbi Cahn, so some Jewish do read the torah after all, including Ezekiel 28. Take you concerns up with Rabbi Cahn, and ask him why he reads the torah as the torah reads. I have found a scholar who is Jewish and supports me.

I have asked Dave for a scholar who supports him, showing us archon and satanas words in a passage or two. But I am still waiting for his response.

Shalom

[Dave]

Dave" AGAIN YOU OPENLY DENY MONOTHIESM – don’t you mean “THEY who exist?”
Rob" No, "he who exists" since the term relates to one strong authority at a time, not all of them collectively.
not all of them = multiple gods = polytheism – and you know it

You also forget NOT all Jews accept MONOTHIESM.
At the time of Jesus Christ – His disciples – and His original Pentecostal Messianic Jewish followers
Judaism was 100% Monotheistic
To Jews today – they are 100% Monotheistic
Jews of Chabad.org are 100% Monotheistic

Isaiah 44:6 The LORD is Israel’s king and defender. He is the LORD of Armies. This is what the LORD says: I am the first and the last, and there is no God except me.

Isaiah 43:11 I, I am the Lord, and besides me there is no savior.

You miss-represent Judaism
You are not honest and post pagan nonsense
----------------------------------------------------

Dave" YHWY is not god?
Your true teaching is finally coming out
ROB" You are disrespectful sir
You are the one making the claim that YHWY is NOT GOD

Dave" You teach that biology is divine and pre-existed biology
You teach that god is biology
Please explain your religious garbage
ROB" Are you OK? Can't you understand word meanings in a sentence?
I said this "Yes Jesus is YHWH from all eternity as the YHWH.
Sorry – Jesus the Son of Man was not born until 6BC Mathew or 6AD Luke

Notice if angels are ethereal as Jewish commentary claims, how can the angels shift forms to be like humans and have sex with them,
DUH - angel messengers of God cannot have sex or reproduce – DUH
The Archon (The Beast) is made with some matter – does in fact procreate (Gen 3:15 serpent’s seed)

You ask questions so much brevity I fail to grasp what it is you are asking?
D" How is this different than Jesus Christ (yester ra biology – Jesus) + (Christ – the image of God)
ROb" Jesus was YHWH clad in humanity i
When prophecy came, He took up biology adding it to His divinity. Now the YHWH has humanity added to it, thus encapsulating the divinity with humanity. Two natures if you will.
D" How is this different than Jesus Christ (yester animal ra nature – Jesus) + (with the divine nature of God - Christ – the image of God)

You say Jesus is biology but Christ is an expression of the Father. Hence you make a weird entity,
Yep Jesus was/is 100% 3D biology – with the nature of an animal (yester ra)
Yep – the spirit within the flesh was GOD
thus encapsulating the divinity within humanity. Two natures if you will.

Explain to me how the Father can have a real son,
Just how many times did God enter His creation?
Answer – many times
Can you answer the first time God entered His creation?
(test question to see if you are paying attention or just blowing me off)
How many times was God born into creation? – only once – only begotten Son

D" How is this different than God incarnate?
Rob" What does God incarnate mean to you?
Jesus Christ – (Jesus) +(Christ)

born a humanity over the SON-YHWH encapsulating the SON-YHWH with humanity.
D" How is this different than God incarnate?
Dave" You absolutely deny this teaching – then post it as your own?
When are you going to start being honest or serious?
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Rob" What does God incarnate mean to you?
Jesus Christ – (Jesus) +(Christ)

You are a student of scripture so you know full well the Arian Controversy that resulted in the 1st ecumenical council and the Nicaean Creed

Man is a duality [(animal)+(spirit)]
The Arian question –
Was Jesus [(animal)+(spirit)] until John Baptized Him with a divine spirit
Was the baptism of Jesus a possession by an invading spirit – [(animal)+(spirit Christ)]
Or
Was Jesus Christ born divine – [(animal)+(Christ)]

The answer = the Nicaean Creed = TRINITY
1- We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
2- And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father [the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God,] Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
OR
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
3- And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father,

God is God - God is Christ - The Holy Ghost proceedeth from God
Father – Son – and Holy Ghost
-------------------------------------------------------

Dave" Do Not Be Fooled! The New Testament Is Gnostic!
ROb" Prove a single doctrinal verse of Paul is Gnostic.
Compare the Greek NT of Paul to the Hebrew OT of the Moses torah, and show us they are different.
I will show you they are the same torah, the same truth.
Correct most Christianity is Gnostic – taught by Paul
Correct Gnostic is actually Jewish mysticism – Jewish Kabbalah
I have said this many times

Dave" Saint Paul is considered to be a Gnostic because he preached Gnostic doctrines in his letters which modern Christians are completely ignorant of.
Dave" IT IS MORE CORRECT TO SAY – Robert has no idea of church history or an understanding of Gnosticism
Robert just argues against the word Gnostic –
Robert does NOT understand what he is saying – and does not want to understand – he just argues words

Why is Paul preaching against Gnosis, if Paul is a preacher of Gnosis? Something is not right?
Correct - Robert has no idea of church history or an understanding of Gnosticism
Robert just argues against the word Gnostic –
Robert does NOT understand what he is saying – and does not want to understand – he just argues words

Choose ONE doctrinal thing about Paul, Dave and create a thread to prove Paul is Gnostic. Make sure the doctrinal point does not exist in the Moses account, the OT torah.

Easy –
1- The Trinity – Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is 100% Gnostic from Valentinus
The Torah does not teach a trinity – it teaches a duality
But – The Kabbalah does entertain the Trinity – God in His throne 24/7 + the Shekinah + God tabernacles in a Tent or Temple

2- Paul absolutely taught that BELIEF is EXPERENCIAL - 2 Cor 12:1-10
Paul absolutely taught the Baptism of the Holy Spirit – Acts 19
Not the Baptism of John with water – but the Baptism of the Holy Spirit
Also from Jewish mysticism

3- Paul teaches spirituality – NOT LAW
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things,
Also from Jewish mysticism

4- Paul Contradicts YHWH's Dietary Law
Romans 14 – Mathew 15:16-20
It is not what goes into a man’s mouth that defiles him – but what comes out of his mouth does
1 Cor 8 Paul even says it is OK to eat sacrifices made to false gods and idols
Also from Jewish mysticism

5- Paul taught the ARCHON – Eph 6:12 / Col 1:16

Archons in Paul's theology - Redit
Though i do not like to focus on Archons, i figured the vast misinterpretation of the Pauline epistles needs a focus on what they are, and how Paul seems to understand what they are. Most people sadly do not know that Archons in Paul’s message most of the time do not refer to human rulers, but spiritual ones. Though scholars like April Deconicks and Elaine Pagels are beginning to realize that Paul along with possibly the Gospel of John was in many ways the founder of Gnosticism, a bold claim, but one founded on countless evidence.

Who are the Archons in the Bible that control earth from the sky ?
jonathanmccormack.medium.com/who-are-the-archons-in-the-bible-that-control-earth-from-the-sky-c59f5681ab85
Today the term “archon” is often associated with various 1st centuty sects loosely referred to as “Gnostics.”
The first time it’s used to designate *angelic beings in text occurs in the OT LXX Dan 10:13, vaguely around 150 BC….which also contains the first references to the conception of angelic beings who are the Patrons of specific nations on earth.

Dan 10:13 καὶ ὁ ἄρχων βασιλείας Περσῶν εἱστήκει ἐξ ἐναντίας μου εἴκοσι καὶ μίαν ἡμέραν, καὶ ἰδοὺ Μιχαηλ εἷς τῶν ἀρχόντων τῶν πρώτων ἦλθεν βοηθῆσαί μοι, καὶ αὐτὸν κατέλιπον ἐκεῖ μετὰ τοῦ ἄρχοντος βασιλείας Περσῶν

Dan 10:13 But the prince ARCHON of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief ARCHON princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings ARCHONS of Persia.

“For Paul, the cosmos has been enslaved to death, both by our sin and by the malign governance of those ‘angelic’ or ‘daemonian’ agencies who reign over the earth from the heavens, and who hold spirits in thrall below the earth. These angelic beings, these Archons, whom Paul calls Thrones and Powers and Dominations and Spiritual Forces of Evil in the High Places, are the gods of the nations….Whether fallen, or mutinous, or merely incompetent, these beings stand intractably between us and God. But Christ has conquered them all.”

In Paul the world is said to be ruled by mysterious “powers” or “authorities.” The word ARCHON is used to denote these beings…

Paul taught the ARCHON
Also from Jewish mysticism – all 100% King Solomon – Beelzebub and the shedim

6- (google) Why is Saint Paul considered gnostic?
Paul claimed to have a special knowledge – secret gnosis.
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

7- Paul taught mortal death + judgment
100% Gnostic – a demon in the sky lets you pass or keeps you in hades
100% Gnostic – Saint Peter standing at the pearly gates – letting you in if worthy
Not sure where it is in Kabbalah – but all Jews sit shiva and say the kadish

----------------------------------------------------------

Dave" Do you support Ellen White as a prophet equal with Gnostic Paul or not?
ROb" Ellen White is a translator, Paul is a preacher in the latter torah. I see different functions here.
NOT AN ANSWER
Dave" Do you support the teaching that her words are equal with Paul as SDA claim – or not?
ROB" DO you support the words of the King James translation as the truth of the hebrew? What are you saying Dave?
NOT AN ANSWER

Seventh-day Adventist view Ellen G. White as an inspired ...
Bible.ca - www.bible.ca › 7-WhiteInspire
SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST LEADERS Claim THAT ELLEN G. WHITE "HAS EQUAL AUTHORITY WITH THE BIBLE" AND BIBLE WRITERS AND PLACE HER IN THE SAME PROPHETIC CLASS

Repeat - Dave" Do you support the teaching that her words are equal with Paul as SDA claim – or not?
----------------------------------------------

Dave" The same argument is made in the Greek by CEASAR’S MESSIAH
Why is one true and the other false?
Rob" never heard of it. show a download link where I can download hundreds of pages to test the words written.
ABSOLUTE LIE – I have invited you to discuss it on several occasions
You either cannot find it – forget to look - or complain because the documentary is over an hour long

Caesar's Messiah - Home
caesarsmessiah.com - www.caesarsmessiah.com
Caesar's Messiah - The secret, hidden history of Christianity and the Gospels. Discover links between Jesus, the Roman Army, and the Flavian dynasty.

WOW – I bet this is a good place to begin

Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy To Invent Jesus
www.iri.upc.edu › thomas › Collection › details
Caesar's Messiah reads the texts closely, has a fresh perspective, and many original insights. The result is a book that is informative and challenging, and ...

What is the summary of Caesar's Messiah?
Caesar's Messiah, a real life Da Vinci Code, presents the dramatic and controversial discovery that the conventional views of Christian origins may be wrong. Author Joseph Atwill makes the case that the Christian Gospels were actually written under the direction of first-century Roman emperors.

What is the Caesar's Messiah Conspiracy Theory?
www.gotquestions.org › Caesars-Messiah
Jan 27, 2023 — The idea may be attractive to those who are completely ignorant of Christian history or who harbor active angst toward religion.
‎
Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus
www.imdb.com › title
Based on the best-selling religious studies book by Joseph Atwill, this documentary shows that Jesus is not a historical figure,

Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus
tubitv.com › movies › caesar-s-messiah-the-ro...
Jan 5, 2023 — Presents evidence that the Gospels were written by a family of Caesars and the character of Jesus was an invention of a first-century Roman ...

Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus
www.goodreads.com › book › show
Caesar's Messiah, a real life Da Vinci Code, presents the dramatic and controversial discovery that the conventional views of Christian origins may be wrong.

The argument – Rome took a series on one line truths from the OT
And rewrote them to present Emperor Flavian as the Messiah

I have tested Ellen White word, and she gets a 100% pass.
All of it comes straight out of the OT
The only argument against it = I don’t believe it
The only argument against it = it is not correct

This Book and MOVIE has done as much to harm the faith as Darwin

youtu.be/zmEScIUcvz0?si=WzoTnrM1rvoc3vLy
Full Movie! CAESAR'S MESSIAH: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus - OFFICIAL VERSION
1:23:10

Seven of today's most controversial Bible scholars reveal their shocking conclusions about the origins of Christianity. Based on the best-selling religious studies book by Joseph Atwill, this documentary shows that Jesus is not a historical figure, the events of Jesus' life were based on a Roman military campaign, his supposed second coming refers to a historical event that already occurred, the teachings of Christ came from the ancient pagan mystery schools, and the Gospels were written by a family of Caesars and their supporters, who left us documents to prove it.

Dissecting the history and literature of this time, the scholars show that the Gospels are a sophisticated pro-Roman multi-layered allegorical text that could not have been written by simple Jewish fishermen. Noting that the history officially provided by the Church does not hold up to rigorous scrutiny, the scholars agree that Christianity was used as a political tool to control the masses of the day, and is still being used this way today.

Much like the ancient era from which Christianity emerged, we are currently on the brink of an immense paradigm shift, and studying this history can help us understand modern-day politics, and give us the much-needed perspective for coming up with solutions to today's problems, in order to create the better world that we envision.

TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - Introduction
06:50 - Part One: The Flavians' Rise to Power
07:50 - The Julio-Claudian Dynasty
19:16 - Josephus
22:20 - The Roman Imperial Cult
28:45 - Ruling Families: a Conspiracy
32:26. - Part Two: The Documents
32:43 - The Authors of the Gospels
43:01 - Pagan Parallels
46:16 - Old Testament Parallels
49:58 - The Son of Man
52:27 - Christian Flavians
54:56 - Typology
1:07:07 - The Flavian Signature
1:12:02 - Conclusions

Featured scholars are Joseph Atwill, Robert Eisenman, John Hudson, Kenneth Humphreys, Rod Blackhirst, Acharya S / D.M. Murdock, and Timothy Freke.
Produced by Nlightning workZ Copyright 2012
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

youtu.be/4UqG8w7ezUQ?si=IYGdty0mMCV9jBtc
Proof Romans Invented Jesus Christ - The Flavian Signature
34:54 min

The Romans left a signature of their authorship in the Gospels, The Flavian Signature - as coined by Joseph Atwill. This video is separate from the Caesar's Messiah documentary - it is mainly a tool for anyone interested in understanding an abridged version of Atwill's core discovery of the Flavian Signature directly.

Joseph Atwill's book, "Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus", gives us a revolutionary new understanding of the origin of Christianity, who was the real Jesus (Son of Man), what is the New Testament, and how Christ's second coming already happened. In this short explanatory video, Atwill presents concepts from The Flavian Signature chapter in the latest edition of his book. The Flavian Signature refers to the parallels Atwill discovered which link the Jesus story in the Gospels to the military campaign of the Roman Caesar Titus Flavius in the histories of Josephus. Atwill shows how these parallels prove that the story of Jesus is not historical, and that it was the Flavian court who authored the Gospels - thus leaving their "signature", the "Flavian Signature", in the Gospels for posterity to discover and recognize.

Dave" You teach there is no punishment for sin – no hell - just sleep until you awake up and cease to exist
ROb" mock again, sure we are rewarded for evil deeds in a punishing fire, if you are crooked. The straight are redeemed by Jesus.

For the hearing impaired
You teach there is no punishment for sin – no hell, with proportional punishment – to each man his due – deeds, works, and fruit - just sleep until you awake up and cease to exist
AND YOU RESPOND
sure we are rewarded for evil deeds in a punishing fire, if you are crooked

Thank you for validating my point
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Dave" Please explain Ellen White’s Covenant Theology
NO RESPONSE FROM ROBERT
ROb" ask a question I can understand? I do not understand? In the last days Jerusalem plays a pivotal role in the gospel commission to the whole world. So I do not understand your question?
Dave" In the thread – IS 1948 ISRAEL PROPHETIC – you refuse to take a stand
ROb" SO I do not offer any insight. SO? I am not an expert on all matters?

You study scripture in depth – of course you have studied this theological debate in your many years
You do not want to touch it because it is error – and you won’t look at it
You also violate dispensation – totally disregard it – as if it does not matter
------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave" Yet – you deny the spiritual and say there is no such thing as spirit
ROB" I do not deny "medium", I offer a different explanation
Correct – you say man has no spirit – no such thing – each man is empowered by the HS
You deny the spiritual – all you teach is biology

=====================

I have asked you for a scholar who uses satanas and archons in a sentence or passage?
You published a book on this idea, so where are your references?
Still waiting.

Who are the Archons in the Bible that control earth from the sky ?
jonathanmccormack.medium.com/who-are-the-archons-in-the-bible-that-control-earth-from-the-sky-c59f5681ab85

Eph 6:12 – Our Real Struggle
If Paul is NOT talking about – demons – evil spirits – devils – satans (pl) – BEAST of Revelation 12
Then who do you say Paul is talking about?
---------------------------------------------------------------

I notice Dillon is posting against me, am I allowed to reply?
I notice not a single discussion about the passage of Ellen White, so what does this mean?

Ellen White - To be redeemed means to cease from sin.
Scripture – all men are sinners – there is none righteous, no, not one
Ellen White teaches it is impossible to be redeemed
Salvation is a GIFT – redemption is a GIFT
Ellen White teaches against GRACE

Are you agreeing with the passage? Salvation is a lifetime journey with Salvation the Person.
ABSOLUTELY NOT
Salvation is a GIFT – redemption is a GIFT – of GRACE – unrequited love
There is nothing you can ever do to earn your wat to salvation
All you need to do is believe

The Ezekiel 28 says a cherub chata, meaning some angels did choose to sin. Just the same as humans choose to sin. This makes the creatures oppose GOD who never sins.
ABSOLUTE BULL SHIT – SATAN WORSHIP -

This idea of mine is suported by Jewish preacher Rabbi Cahn
+ the Catholic Church + Ellen White + many Judeo-Christian denominations
So what?

If I go to a Mormon archive – I can post 100s of articles proving Jehovah was once just a man
If I go to an Islamic web-site – I can post 10,000s of articles saying God has no son
If I go to a Chinese Communist Party web-site – I can post many articles saying there is NO GOD
If I go to a Russian web-site – they say the Ukrainians are wrong
If I go to a Ukrainian web-site – they say the Russians are wrong

If I go an Australian web-site – they say The Chinese Navy deliberately injured Australian divers in the water – by pinging them with sonar at a very close range
If I go to a Chinese web-site – they say Australia is lying

Catholic satan is supported by YOU
+ the Catholic Church + Ellen White + many Judeo-Christian denominations
So what?

THE CHALLENGE TO YOU HAS ALWAYS BEEN
Precept upon precept, line upon line
Go through each line of scripture about satan and demonstrate to the world
How each line validates your satan god rebels, hates, and opposes God right to rule the universe

You have tried – sort of
But each attempt proves that satan opposes man – NOT God
But each attempt proves that satan opposes man – and sometime even works for God
Each attempt ends with the same assumption – anyone opposing man opposes God

THE CHALLENGE TO YOU HAS ALWAYS BEEN
Or post a pre-Roman source that validate your Ezk 28 self-made satan
(and just so you are confused / pre-Roman = before Iranians and his war on Gnosticism)

Instead of studying scripture in depth
You continually post other people’s views
because you do not know scripture well enough to have a view

[rob]

Greetings Dave"
Dave" To Jews today – they are 100% Monotheistic
ROB" Jews were not always Monotheistic in the past.

Some scholars have written about this:-

But this verse also suggests this:-

Ge 20:13 And it came to pass, when Elohiym's caused me to wander from my father's house,

Gordon sees the word correctly but refuses to make the verse change the overall meaning of elohiym, He rejected these 6 verses in favour of the 2000 verses that do not have this problem of plurality.

Rabbi Cahn speaks of these issues in the OT torah. You should listen to him

youtu.be/wBhddHYs5HI

Rabbi Cahn aludes to Gordon's studies but goes on the make his own Hebrew understanding from the torah.

youtu.be/M-FZmnPmpDQ

If David calls him Lord , how is he his son?

youtu.be/lhOBRr0OjQ0

cannot talk about infinite using finite terms.
infinity + infintity + infinity = infinity
Love the way Rabbi Cahn explains the infinity

These three videos are very short so please listen to them all

Dave" You miss-represent Judaism
You are not honest and post pagan nonsense
ROB" Sorry my friend, but I have found a Messanic Jew who preaches truth for you, and you should listen to him.

Rabbi Cahn does not mis-represent Judaism, he came from Judaism.

Dave" You are the one making the claim that YHWY is NOT GOD
ROB" Hmm?
I would say that Jesus is divinity, infinity and YHWH in the OT, and He is a member of elohiym powers.

There are numerous verses that use YHWH elohiym, translated as LORD GOD. Thomas once said it is believed

Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My YHWH and my ELOHIYM.

Sorry if I am nitpicking .... maybe you can be right...?

Dave" Sorry – Jesus the Son of Man was not born until 6BC Mathew or 6AD Luke
ROB" Hmm? OK, I can accept that idea for the humanity of YHWH.


Dave" DUH - angel messengers of God cannot have sex or reproduce – DUH
The Archon (The Beast) is made with some matter – does in fact procreate (Gen 3:15 serpent’s seed)
ROB" good, we agree   BUT still waiting for scholars who support your archon idea, as the satanas beast.

Dave" Can you answer the first time God entered His creation?
(test question to see if you are paying attention or just blowing me off)
How many times was God born into creation? – only once – only begotten Son
ROB" I asked you "Explain to me how the Father can have a real son," Answer , you can't answer this question because a Father God is all you have. And a masculine expression is still a Father, so your two faces of the Father is a role playing function, not a real Father and Son.

RobPP" What does God incarnate mean to you?
Dave" Jesus Christ – (Jesus) +(Christ)
ROB" What? no mention of the Father in this model?

You should have said

Jesus Christ = Jesus (the biological part) + Father's expression of masculine love.

What kind of model is this? a pretend son, called role playing.

D" How is this different than God incarnate?
ROB" very different. You teach that Jesus is the Father incarnate.

I see the torah teaching that Jesus is infinitely becoming as a human.
The Father is infinite. The son is infinite. Both have unique personalities of loving.

The Son added humanity to His infinity. The Father did not humanity to His infinity.

SO we are very different in our views.

By the way

One infinity + One infinity + One infinity equals One infinity (not three infinities )

Inspiration comes from Rabbi Cahn.
-------------


Dave" You are a student of scripture so you know full well the Arian Controversy that resulted in the 1st ecumenical council and the Nicaean Creed

Man is a duality [(animal)+(spirit)]
The Arian question –
Was Jesus [(animal)+(spirit)] until John Baptized Him with a divine spirit
Was the baptism of Jesus a possession by an invading spirit – [(animal)+(spirit Christ)]
Or
Was Jesus Christ born divine – [(animal)+(Christ)]
ROB" Sorry this is all complete nonsense.

Jesus was infinity and clad himself with humanity.

Man is not animal + spirit.

Man is dust (flesh + DNA) with partnership to infinity.

Sorry Dave I am not a supporter of the Nicaean Creed, whatever those words mean, assuming the people who use these words support those words publically while having private words altogether different?

Scripture say not to trust the precepts of men.

I trust the torah, not human creeds and traditions.

==================
===================

Dave" Easy –
1- The Trinity – Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is 100% Gnostic from Valentinus
The Torah does not teach a trinity – it teaches a duality
ROB" OK where does Paul teach the trinity, as Father Son and Holy Ghost?

I said ONE doctrinal theory of Gnosticism Paul preaches, not 7? OK

jonathanmccormack.medium.com/who-are-the-archons-in-the-bible-that-control-earth-from-the-sky-c59f5681ab85

Who are the Archons in the Bible that control earth from the sky ?

Jonathan McCormack
[e-mail]

Today the term “archon” is often associated with various 1st centuty sects loosely referred to as “Gnostics.”

Many Gnostic doctrines taught that the world was created and ruled by a lesser divinity, the demiurge, and that Christ was an emissary of the remote supreme divine being, esoteric knowledge (gnosis) of whom enabled the redemption of the human spirit.

Of course the “gnostics” and Christians did share a number of beliefs living in the same cultural milieu, and Paul was especially engrossed in the Enochian worldview.

For large sects of Judaism every nation was under the influence of an evil “god”.

Read the early Fathers, they give a picture of the Cosmos as utterly demon-haunted, in need of constant blessing and redemption, and even throughout the Middle Ages the Church was thought to buffer one against ever present evil spirits.

We are at war, all of creation groans in enslavement.

The term simply means first in rank, a ruler, and appears in Greek texts 650 BC.

The first time it’s used to designate *angelic beings in text occurs in the OT LXX Dan 10:13, vaguely around 150 BC….which also contains the first references to the conception of angelic beings who are the Patrons of specific nations on earth.

ROB" A best he support some of your views.

aeon.co/ideas/the-gospels-of-paul-dont-say-what-you-think-they-say

Everything you know about the Gospel of Paul is likely wrong

David Bentley Hartis a scholar of religion, and a philosopher, writer, author of fiction, and cultural commentator.

·Paul’s actual teachings, however, as taken directly from the Greek of his letters, emphasise neither original guilt nor imputed righteousness (he believed in neither), but rather the overthrow of bad angels.
For Paul, the cosmos has been enslaved to death, both by our sin and by the malign governance of those ‘angelic’ or ‘daemonian’ agencies who reign over the earth from the heavens, and who hold spirits in thrall below the earth. These angelic beings, these Archons, whom Paul calls Thrones and Powers and Dominations and Spiritual Forces of Evil in the High Places, are the gods of the nations. In the Letter to the Galatians, he even hints that the angel of the Lord who rules over Israel might be one of their number. Whether fallen, or mutinous, or merely incompetent, these beings stand intractably between us and God. But Christ has conquered them all.
------------

Dave adds some evidence that archons means prince

Dan 10:13 But the prince ARCHON of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief ARCHON princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings ARCHONS of Persia.
-------------


Dave quibbles Rob's "not an answer"

SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST LEADERS Claim THAT ELLEN G. WHITE "HAS EQUAL AUTHORITY WITH THE BIBLE" AND BIBLE WRITERS AND PLACE HER IN THE SAME PROPHETIC CLASS
Rob" Dave, Ellen White wrote she is a lesser light leading humans to the greater light, God's messenger.

I fully support these words.

That is what a translator does, leads you to the true understanding of the Hebrew torah.

Dave" Repeat - Dave" Do you support the teaching that her words are equal with Paul as SDA claim – or not?
Rob" Paul was a witness to the gospel of Jesus.

Ellen White is a messenger for the Lord, writing messages for our time.

Both were witnesses to the truth.

So yes I see they were both witnesses to the truth.
===================

Dave" Caesar's Messiah
ROB" Lot's to read, but no download of the hundreds of pages of words for me to test?

Do you have a link?
I will try to find a link myself....

Dave" Thank you for validating my point
ROB" punishment happens after all humans who ever lived are all made to live again, the entire human family, thousands of billion of humans all living at one time. ALive as flesh humans. Than a general presentation of Jesus who died for sin and to redeem sinners. Than the individual humans who miss out are shown their sins....

Than the Satan opposer tries to rally a last battle, but the wicked turn to fight against the Opposer and His angels.

Than the wicked are punished in nanoseconds according to the deeds they did. Until Satan the Opposer is the last creature standing to finally cease to exist.

Nothing like your view Dave.

Dave" of course you have studied this theological debate in your many years
ROB" No Dave, some themes are not studied in the SDA view, we go to Sabbath school every Sabbath to learn stuff, and this has never come up.

Dave" You deny the spiritual – all you teach is biology
ROB" OK show me the spiritual spark thing from Scripture Dave?
--------------

RobPP" This idea of mine is suported by Jewish preacher Rabbi Cahn
Dave" + the Catholic Church + Ellen White + many Judeo-Christian denominations
So what?
ROB" So you now down grade Rabbi Cahn to another whimsical preacher of the many Judeo-Christian denominations, sucked in by Roman Catholic Edit?

Dave" If I go to a Mormon archive
If I go to an Islamic web-site
If I go to a Chinese Communist Party web-site
If I go to a Russian web-site
Catholic satan is supported by YOU
+ the Catholic Church + Ellen White + many Judeo-Christian denominations
So what?
THE CHALLENGE TO YOU HAS ALWAYS BEEN
Or post a pre-Roman source that validate your Ezk 28 self-made satan
ROB" SO now I have to find some writing that predates Roman Edit and speaks of Satan using Ezekiel 28 logic?

Would such evidence really sway you? I doubt it?

I showed you ancient Chinese logograms with Satan devil pictures, but you say the archons are like devils and prove nothing. Hmm? a hard task?

Dave" Instead of studying scripture in depth
You continually post other people’s views
because you do not know scripture well enough to have a view
ROB" What a joke Dave. How many humans use Hebrew and Greek and make serious investigations like we both do? and in much detail too?

The average SDA cannot do this. Most people read their Bibles in English. And if I have Bible software that could evaluate suffix and prefix, I would study these too.

I note you finally came up with
some scholars....

Who are the Archons in the Bible that control earth from the sky ?
(1) jonathanmccormack.medium.com/who-are-the-archons-in-the-bible-that-control-earth-from-the-sky-c59f5681ab85

He does not say much about archons and satanas does he? No , not much at all.

(2) aeon.co/ideas/the-gospels-of-paul-dont-say-what-you-think-they-say
Everything you know about the Gospel of Paul is likely wrong

David Bentley Hartis is writing about archons, yes, but uses this term to refer to angelic beings, not archons beings termed satanas.

So you have tried to find some scholar support, so thanks for trying a little for me

As for rest of your post, even the mocking, I will take you mock in my stride. Maybe get back to you.


God notes you term Rabbi Cahn and his preaching as "ABSOLUTE BULL SHIT – SATAN WORSHIP -" wow, that is some remark. I hope and pray God overlooks your mocking of preachers different to your view.

I might find reading Jewish stuff weird, but I would not mock them entirely as you do to this Rabbi.

However I agree with you, so what? You can find deception anywhere if you care to look for it, even among Jewish preachers.

So where do you look for truth, and nothing but the truth?

You consider the torah scriptures as with mistakes, some even called bastard mistakes by you. I term some translations are fuzzy, but never would I mock the messages of GOD, in any writings they come.

I admire Rabbi Cahn for using Ezekiel 28 because I found the same idea, long before your Roman Edite, never heard of this before. I read Scripture myself. I do not look up Ellen White first and check what I read through her. I read Scripture alone with the HS tutor and find the truth therein. DO you do this? or look up Gnostic writings first and become influenced by them?


Shalom

[Dave]

Dave" To Jews today – they are 100% Monotheistic
ROB" Jews were not always Monotheistic in the past.
You have no credibility – I do not believe you mean what you say
Where are your imaginary pre-Roman references?
-------------------------------------

Ge 20:13 And it came to pass, when Elohiym's caused me to wander from my father's house,

Gordon sees the word correctly but refuses to make the verse change the overall meaning of elohiym, He rejected these 6 verses in favour of the 2000 verses that do not have this problem of plurality.

PLURALITY?
Gen 20:13 (WLC) כִּֽי־מַשְׁחִתִים אֲנַחְנוּ אֶת־הַמָּקֹום הַזֶּה כִּֽי־גָֽדְלָה צַעֲקָתָם אֶת־פְּנֵי יְהוָה וַיְשַׁלְּחֵנוּ יְהוָה לְשַׁחֲתָֽהּ׃

יְהוָ֔ה @np

H3068 יְהוָה Yhvah (yeh-vaw') n/p.
יְהוָֹה Yhovah (yeh-ho-vaw')
יְהוֹ Yhow (yeh-ho') [as a prefix]
1. (meaning) the self-Existent or Eternal, the I AM.
2. (person) Yahweh (Yehvah), Jewish national name of God.
3. (anglicized) Jehovah.
4. (as a name prefix) Yeho-.
5. (As expressed in Hebraic Koine Greek) ἐγώ εἰμί, I AM (literally: I myself, I am).

@: Hebrew origin
np: noun-proper

PLURALITY?
Gen 20:13 (LXX) ἐγένετο δὲ ἡνίκα ἐξήγαγέν με ὁ θεὸς ἐκ τοῦ οἴκου τοῦ πατρός μου, καὶ εἶπα αὐτῇ Ταύτην τὴν δικαιοσύνην ποιήσεις ἐπ᾿ ἐμέ· εἰς πάντα τόπον, οὗ ἐὰν εἰσέλθωμεν ἐκεῖ, εἰπὸν ἐμὲ ὅτι Ἀδελφός μού ἐστιν.

ὁ θεὸς
God – masculine – singular nominative

He rejected these 6 verses in favour of the 2000 verses that do not have this problem of plurality.
The only one with a PLURAL WORD problem is Robert

Ge 20:13 And it came to pass, when Elohiym's caused me to wander from my father's house,
The only one with a PLURAL WORD problem is Robert
The only one with a POSSESSIVE PUNCTUATION problem is Robert
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave" You miss-represent Judaism
You are not honest and post pagan nonsense
ROB" Sorry my friend, but I have found a Messanic Jew who preaches truth for you, and you should listen to him.

THE POINT – I seek the Judaism of Jesus Christ – His disciples – Hid original Followers – who were all Pentecostal Messianic Jews – with Jewish theology and Jewish demonology
THE POINT – I seek the teaching of Jesus Christ
Any other teaching that came after the First century that differs from that original teaching is ABSOLUTEY UNIMPORTANT AND COMPLETELY UNRELEVANT
The idea that you can post 20th Century Rabbi Apple or 21st Century Rabbi Cahn is NOT relevant

Rabbi Cahn does not mis-represent Judaism, he came from Judaism.
If he teaches Ezk 28 then he does not agree with orthodox Judaism yesterday or today
--------------------------------------------------------

Dave" You are the one making the claim that YHWY is NOT GOD
ROB" Hmm?
I would say that Jesus is divinity, infinity and YHWH in the OT,
NOPE WORD MAN – Jesus was not born until 6BC Mathew or 6AD Luke
Christ is divinity – Christ is YHWY – in the OT and NT – and beyond

Dave" Can you answer the first time God entered His creation?
(test question to see if you are paying attention or just blowing me off)
How many times was God born into creation? – only once – only begotten Son
ROB" I asked you "Explain to me how the Father can have a real son," Answer , you can't answer this question because a Father God is all you have. And a masculine expression is still a Father, so your two faces of the Father is a role playing function, not a real Father and Son.

Where is your answer to my test question – When was the first time God entered His creation?
It is an easy answer for any Christian that knows his scripture

Gen 1:3 – Christ the image of God = THE LIGHT OF SALVATION
Joh 8:12 Yeshua spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. The one who follows Me will no longer walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

Gen 1:3 – Christ the image of God (God in His own creation) = THE LIGHT OF SALVATION
To ILLUMINATE the DARKNESS of Gen 1:2
Replacing the IGNORANCE of darkness –with- the LIGHT of truth

Not complicated at all – very simple – very Gnostic – very Jewish mysticism (kabbalah)
------------------------------------------------------

There are numerous verses that use YHWH elohiym, translated as LORD GOD. Thomas once said it is believed
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My YHWH and my ELOHIYM.
Sorry if I am nitpicking .... maybe you can be right...?

You demand Thomas is a Gnostic with secret gnosis
Yet you post him as a NT source
And claim there is nothing Gnostic about the NT
You do not understand the concepts behind the words you use – you just argue words

The expression
You cannot see the forest – because all the trees obstruct your view
You cannot see the forest – because all the trees get in the way
“You cannot see the forest because of the wood.” - (John Heywood in 1546.)
----------------------------------------------------------

Dave" DUH - angel messengers of God cannot have sex or reproduce – DUH
The Archon (The Beast) is made with some matter – does in fact procreate (Gen 3:15 serpent’s seed)
ROB" good, we agree BUT still waiting for scholars who support your archon idea, as the satanas beast.

Still waiting for you to answer the question

You say this in arrogance because you refuse to answer:
If the ARCHON of Eph 6:12 and Col 1:16 are not demons / devils / evil spirits /and satanas
Then who are they?

You admit they are you ‘fallen angeles of Ezk 28’
So you do admit the ARCHON of Eph 6:12 and Col 1:16 are demons / devils / evil spirits /and satanas

Your only argument = the word ARCHON
You do this to hide your real error – your Ellen White Ezk 28 Catholic self-made satan the god of evil

Paul says the ARCHON of Eph 612 and Col 1:16 are demons / devils / evil spirits /and satanas
WERE MADE BY GOD FOR GOD

YOU MUST REJECT THIS NT SCRIPTURE
because it contradicts everything you stand for and teach to others as a false teaching

RobPP" What does God incarnate mean to you?
Dave" Jesus Christ – (Jesus) +(Christ)
ROB" What? no mention of the Father in this model?

D" How is this different than God incarnate?
ROB" very different. You teach that Jesus is the Father incarnate.

Where is your credibility? You just post nonsense – and the discussion goes nowhere
ROB" What? no mention of the Father in this model?
ROB" You teach that Jesus is the Father incarnate.
You do understand my teaching and the concept of the TRINITY
You pretend ignorance so you can argue against yourself -

You have no discussion – you only post NOISE
Anything to detract from Judeo-Christian teaching
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave" You are a student of scripture so you know full well the Arian Controversy that resulted in the 1st ecumenical council and the Nicaean Creed
Sorry Dave I am not a supporter of the Nicaean Creed - I trust the torah

יְהוָֹה Yhovah (yeh-ho-vaw')
יְהוֹ Yhow (yeh-ho') [as a prefix]
1. (meaning) the self-Existent or Eternal, the I AM.
2. (person) Yahweh (Yehvah), Jewish national name of God.
3. (anglicized) Jehovah.
4. (as a name prefix) Yeho-.
5. (As expressed in Hebraic Koine Greek) ἐγώ εἰμί, I AM (literally: I myself, I am).

I AM (literally: I myself, I am – not 3 different gods working together in a team effort
I = God – that no man can see
Myself – God invisible – Spirit – HS
I am – Christ – the 3D image of God

Isa 45:5 I am Jehovah, and there is none else, Except Me there is no God,

Isa 37:20 And now, Jehovah our God, save us from his hand, and all kingdoms of the earth do know that Thou art Jehovah, Thyself alone.'

MONO – not poly
==================

Dave" Easy –
1- The Trinity – Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is 100% Gnostic from Valentinus
The Torah does not teach a trinity – it teaches a duality
ROB" OK where does Paul teach the trinity, as Father Son and Holy Ghost?

Every mainstream Christian Trinitarian will say Romans 8 or 1 Cor
Now your are going to say – he never uses the word TRINITY
And I’ll say – you just want to argue words without embracing the full meaning of scripture

I said ONE doctrinal theory of Gnosticism Paul preaches, not 7? OK
WHAT IT WAS SO EASY – WHY ARE YOU SHOCKED – overwhelmed with the truth?

jonathanmccormack.medium.com/who-are-the-archons-in-the-bible-that-control-earth-from-the-sky-c59f5681ab85

Who are the Archons in the Bible that control earth from the sky ?
Jonathan McCormack
Today the term “archon” is often associated with various 1st centuty sects loosely referred to as “Gnostics.”

DON’T FORGET - In Paul the world is said to be ruled by mysterious “powers” or “authorities.” The word ARCHON is used to denote these beings…

Of course the “gnostics” and Christians did share a number of beliefs living in the same cultural milieu, and Paul was especially engrossed in the Enochian worldview.
Yep – according to Robert Paul was a Gnostic

The term simply means first in rank, a ruler, and appears in Greek texts 650 BC.
The first time it’s used to designate *angelic beings in text occurs in the OT LXX Dan 10:13, vaguely around 150 BC….which also contains the first references to the conception of angelic beings who are the Patrons of specific nations on earth.

angelic beings – spirit being – ethereal beings– invisible beings – not 3D matter
the sar of Persian = a devil / a satanas / a BEAST / a messenger of the BEAST = ARCHON

aeon.co/ideas/the-gospels-of-paul-dont-say-what-you-think-they-say
Everything you know about the Gospel of Paul is likely wrong
For Paul, the cosmos has been enslaved to death, both by our sin and by the malign governance of those ‘angelic’ or ‘daemonian’ agencies who reign over the earth from the heavens, and who hold spirits in thrall below the earth. These angelic beings, these Archons, whom Paul calls Thrones and Powers and Dominations and Spiritual Forces of Evil in the High Places, are the gods of the nations.
Yep – 100% Gnostic – 100% Jewish demonology – 100% King Solomon – 100% Jesus Beelzebub

Whether fallen, or mutinous, or merely incompetent, these beings stand intractably between us and God. But Christ has conquered them all.
BETWEEN MAN AND GOD
The BEAST – THE ARCHON – in all their forms – oppose man NOT GOD
------------

SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST LEADERS Claim THAT ELLEN G. WHITE "HAS EQUAL AUTHORITY WITH THE BIBLE" AND BIBLE WRITERS AND PLACE HER IN THE SAME PROPHETIC CLASS
Rob" Dave, Ellen White wrote she is a lesser light leading humans to the greater light, God's messenger.
I fully support these words.
Then stop saying you only use the Torah when you (like all the alternative christianities of the Second Great Awakening) have additional scripture

That is what a translator does, leads you to the true understanding of the Hebrew torah.
Yep she tells you how to think – and you stop having to think for yourself
It is called a cult of personality – you ralley behind a human being – not scripture
===================

Dave" Caesar's Messiah
ROB" Lot's to read, but no download of the hundreds of pages of words for me to test?

Dave" Thank you for validating my point
ROB" punishment happens after all humans who ever lived are all made to live again, the entire human family, thousands of billion of humans all living at one time. ALive as flesh humans. Than a general presentation of Jesus who died for sin and to redeem sinners. Than the individual humans who miss out are shown their sins....

Correct
Rev 20:13 and the sea did give up those dead in it, and the death and the hades did give up the dead in them, and they were judged, each one according to their works;
Rev 20:14 and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire—this is the second death;

You deny proportional punishment - he wicked are punished in nanoseconds
One size fits all – sleep peaceful rest – just to wake up and die
NOT JEUDEO-CHRISTIAN
--------------------------------------------------

RobPP" This idea of mine is suported by Jewish preacher Rabbi Cahn
Dave" + the Catholic Church + Ellen White + many Judeo-Christian denominations
So what?
ROB" So you now down grade Rabbi Cahn to another whimsical preacher of the many Judeo-Christian denominations, sucked in by Roman Catholic Edit?

YES – I absolute stand by my statement
Rabbi Cahn is not a First Century Messianic Jew
Rabbi Cahn preaches in the 21st Century Roman Catholic Christendom world
YES – I absolute stand by my statement

THE CHALLENGE TO YOU HAS ALWAYS BEEN
Or post a pre-Roman source that validate your Ezk 28 self-made satan
ROB" SO now I have to find some writing that predates Roman Edit and speaks of Satan using Ezekiel 28 logic?
Yes – this has always been your challenge – four years now and we are still waiting for your participation

I showed you ancient Chinese logograms with Satan devil pictures,
DUH – DUH – and DUH
no denies the Beast of Revelation – the dragon – the serpent – we call devils and satanas
--------------------------------------------------------

Who are the Archons in the Bible that control earth from the sky ?
jonathanmccormack.medium.com
He does not say much about archons and satanas does he? No , not much at all.
In Paul the world is said to be ruled by mysterious “powers” or “authorities.” The word ARCHON is used to denote these beings…

(2) aeon.co/ideas/the-gospels-of-paul-dont-say-what-you-think-they-say
Everything you know about the Gospel of Paul is likely wrong
David Bentley Hartis is writing about archons, yes, but uses this term to refer to angelic beings, not archons beings termed satanas.
Just Roberts word game
You are afraid of the word ARCHON – because Paul says they are made by God for God
This contradicts everything you stand for and teach others
----------------------------------------

God notes you term Rabbi Cahn and his preaching as "ABSOLUTE BULL SHIT – SATAN WORSHIP -" wow, that is some remark.

If Rabbi Cahn makes Ezk 28 satan a god of evil locked in a cosmic struggle in heaven (between two gods) over God’s right to rule the universe – as Ellen White and you demand
Then - I will call his teaching "ABSOLUTE BULL SHIT – SATAN WORSHIP-"

So where do you look for truth, and nothing but the truth?
Torah + the wisdom of our fathers + scientific fact + the NT + the authors of the NT James, John, paul, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas because they walked and talked with Jesus Christ before and after His passion – and Jesus Christ gave them secret knowledge in private – which is nothing more than just – the Baptism of the Holy Spirit – and to be led by the spirit

You consider the torah scriptures as with mistakes, some even called bastard mistakes by you.
Yep – and so do all linguist that study scripture
You have no idea what they are talkig about because you just want to argue the word Bastard

There are 16 verse in the KJV textus receptus that do not exist an any of the 100s of other Greek Manuscript
What do you call them – how do you explain them?
The Gospel of Mark exist with 3 different ending
Which one is correct – how

never would I mock the messages of GOD, in any writings they come.
ME NEITHER – BUT I WILL MOCK ELLEN WHITE AND HER SATAN GOD TILL THE END OF TIME

[rob]

Greetings Dave
Dave"The only one with a PLURAL WORD problem is Robert
The only one with a POSSESSIVE PUNCTUATION problem is Robert

ROB" DId you read Gordons PDF document? I doubt it? Here is the passage, read it Dave.

"The first instance of Elohim with a plural verb is in Gen 20:13. In this passage Abraham explains to Abimelech how he plotted with Sarah to lie about her being his sister:
"And it was when God caused me to wander (hit‘u oti Elohim יםִהֹלֱא יִתֹא עוְּתִה (from the house of my father, that I said to her, this is the righteousness that you shall do with me, to every place which we come, say about me, he is my brother"
The phrase "God caused me to wander" hit‘u oti Elohim יםִהֹלֱא יִתֹא עוְּתִה has the plural verb hit‘u ?עוְּתִ meaning "they caused to wander" (hif‘il past 3rd pl ת.ע.ה.(. So contrary to the expected rule of Elohim getting a singular verb, here
Elohim gets a plural verb. Because of this plural verb, we could literally translate this phrase "gods caused me to wander".
From this verse alone it indeed appears that Abraham worshipped multiple gods whom he believed had caused him to wander from his father's house. However, this hardly fits the overall picture. In Gen 24 Abraham again refers to God taking him from his father's house and this time the verb accompanying Elohim is singular:"

Gordon ignores the 6 verses he does not like in favour of the verses he does like. This is not precept upon precept, line upon line. It is Bible biased reading.

GOrdons summary

' YHWH is referred to as Elohim (God) throughout the Hebrew Scriptures. Although Elohim is a noun with the plural ending -im -יםִ it does not mean "gods". Hebrew distinguishes between a numerical plural and a majestic plural by the verbs, adjectives, and pronouns that accompany the noun. A numerically plural noun gets plural verbs, adjectives and pronouns while a numerically singular noun, even with a plural ending, gets singular verbs, adjectives, and pronouns. Of course, when Elohim is used as a numerical plural meaning "gods", for example, when used by idolators to refer to their false gods, it does have plural verbs, adjectives, and pronouns. However, when referring to YHWH, Elohim always has singular verbs, adjectives, and pronouns, making it clear that it is a numerical singular, despite the plural suffix. There areonly nine exceptions to this rule, three where Elohim has plural verbs and six where Elohim has plural adjectives. Yet even in these nine passages Elohim retains its meaning of a numerical singular. Thus we find the awkward statement: "He is a living Elohim" where the adjective "living" is plural alongside the singular pronoun "He". Such anomalies are best explained as "attraction", meaning that the singular verb or adjective is "attracted" by the plural suffix of Elohim and as a result it becomes plural. Although attraction is an exception to the general rule it is hardly rare in Hebrew and indeed is found in many languages, ancient and modern. We even have a parallel use of a majestic plural with plural verbs in the
incident of the golden calf. Here Elohim is clearly meant as a numerical singular even though it is accompanied by a plural verb. This is also what is happening in the nine instances in which Elohim referring to YHWH has plural verbs or adjectives. Of course, these are rare cases occurring only nine times out of some 2000 appearances of Elohim.

NOW you treat another JEW with distain, a Messanic Jew called Rabbi Cahn, who discusses Gordons work and makes a different view which is the same as my view. But you ignore all this calling it BS.

So is your disdain fair to others with different views?

Dave" THE POINT – I seek the Judaism of Jesus Christ
ROB" No you don't, since when did Jesus quote Gnostic torah?

Dave" If he teaches Ezk 28 then he does not agree with orthodox Judaism yesterday or today
ROB" Maybe orthodox Judaism is overruled by Satan the Opposer of GOD. Have you considered this idea? Now even the SDA has Masons in it and slowly eroded into another assembly preaching deception. Do you think the Opposer leaves assembles alone? My prediction is only a remnant is left who do not belong to any named church.... so the truth sets you free. What is truth Pilate asked? Can you Dave, answer that queston? Does truth come from Gnostic writings?

Truth comes from the torah, and the torah only, beginning with Moses torah.
No mention to study Enoch torah, the torah says first Moses torah, than other witnesses.

Enoch spoke oral torah, not wrote written torah? Men in those days have perfect memories.


Dave" NOPE WORD MAN – Jesus was not born until 6BC Mathew or 6AD Luke
Christ is divinity – Christ is YHWY – in the OT and NT – and beyond
Rob" Why do you split Jesus as a biology entity and Christ as a infinite entity?
In my view SON-YHWH took up human in AD4 and became a human as well as remaining SON-YHWH? We are saying the same thing, but you wish to make this a big deal? Why?

And you do not have Christ as infinity, you only have a Father expression.
Your trinity is "Father infinity = three expressions of infinity. " There is no maths of unity here.

My trinity is "1 infintiy + 1 infintiy + 1 infintiy = 1 infinity (not three infinties)

I can apply maths to the elohiym powers, while you can't.

Hence you do not have a trinity at all and play word games.

Listen to Rabbi Cahn if you care to.

Dave" Where is your answer to my test question – When was the first time God entered His creation?
It is an easy answer for any Christian that knows his scripture
ROB" Sorry I do not have any clear answers to your question.

Dave" Still waiting for you to answer the question
ROB" There is no verse that says the Father entered His Creation, the only way the Father enters a world of sin is via the medium. Hence is carried by the Shadday.

Ps 91:1 ¶ He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.

SO only via the Shadday does the Father enter creation and uphold creation with His power.

Ge 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

Here the Father is withdrawn from earth making the earth void, formless and dark, because sinning angels live on the earth and do not want a Father's power there.

Did I answer your question? FIrst mention of the Father with His Creation.


Dave" You say this in arrogance because you refuse to answer:
If the ARCHON of Eph 6:12 and Col 1:16 are not demons / devils / evil spirits /and satanas
Then who are they?
ROB" Even you scholars you posted said the archons are of angelic forces...

Dave" Where is your credibility?
ROB" I read your scholar posts.... they did not speak of a independent creation of creatures called satanas....

Come on Dave, be honest.... where is your scholar support...

It's time for me to go to work, take your time and start doing your real homework I am surprised you published a book without scholar references to your views?

Dave" You have no discussion – you only post NOISE
ROB" That is exactly what you are doing/ where are your scholar supports?

You dismiss Rabbi Cahn, you dismiss Rabbi Apple, you dismiss Ellen White....

Where does that leave me? No where.... so where are your scholar supports? See if I mock your scholars? See what I will do to your theory?

A theory in science must be validated by 2 to 3 witness to be validated and thus falsified.

You have not done that.

As RIchard also said, ROb have not done that either. I agree with Richard.

Dave" not 3 different gods working together in a team effort
ROB" elohiym is NOY yachad, ( not 3 different gods working together in a team effort
)
elohiym is echad, a totally different word meaning, designed with oneness.

infinity plus infinity plus infinity equals infinity

echad, designed to be that way.

Try listening to Rabbi Cahn if you care (videos on trinity)

Dave" MONO – not poly
ROB no such thing as poly infinity

again stop looking at yachad and start learning what echad means

Dave" Now your are going to say – he never uses the word TRINITY
And I’ll say – you just want to argue words without embracing the full meaning of scripture
ROB" Paul is a brilliant writer,

Translate this word into Hebrew for me, if you can, I respect your Greek scholarship

Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

"eloihym" what?

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

"eloihym" what?

Both written by Paul? What kind of trinity is Paul writing about here?


Dave" Then stop saying you only use the Torah when you (like all the alternative christianities of the Second Great Awakening) have additional scripture
ROB" Dave, I am serious, I do not use Ellen White as additional Scripture. Sometimes her messages from God as useful.

For example vaccine dangers, where does the torah speak of vaccine dangers.

Or GMO dangers, magnified so one understands the Hebrew terms?

Sometimes reading Hebrew, without being hebrew is hard, so a translator helps much. That is why I like Jeff Benner so much. I aslo used Jeff benner as much as I use Ellen WHite. does this make Jeff benner into some prophet? Hardly.

rabbi Cahn talks Hebrew and presents Hebrew nicely so listening to others is helpful sometimes, even though he might be a Mason in disguise. I don't know.
One has to be careful of being deceived. How do you claim orthdox Jews have truth all the time?

Dave" Yep she tells you how to think – and you stop having to think for yourself
ROB" OH so the KJV experts help you to think? correct, they do.

As Jews speak like kissing a bride through a veil. Do you have an alternative?

Why even your Gnostic writing is not electronic in software so one cannot compare word meanings, so by blind faith I have to accept all the translations are correct? Is that fair? No it is not. What are you saying Dave?


Dave" It is called a cult of personality – you ralley behind a human being – not scripture
ROB" Jesus said of the Jews, that Moses with condemn you. Where does the human influence stop and GOD's messages speak for us? DO you accept Ellen White was a true inspired messenger of GOD? I love the way she picks words out sentences written by other good people yet knows what to include and what to exclude. How does she know? God tells her. Is that plagiarism? No it is GOD looking for his truth in his witnesses, and collecting it into one place. God uses all people for his witness, so not all humans are bad, some like Cyrus was good, even though he was evil. God sees and uses the good in all people. I find it uncanny why some Bible versions are OK with Ellen White and some are not, verses by verse, she picks verses using several Bible translations? Why? Ask Jeff benner that, she follows Hebrew precisely.


Dave" You deny proportional punishment - he wicked are punished in nanoseconds
One size fits all – sleep peaceful rest – just to wake up and die
NOT JEUDEO-CHRISTIAN
ROB" NO Dave, some wicked get 3 nanoseconds of God's firey love, others get 100 nanoseconds of God firey love that makes RA cease to exist. All are punished according to their deed, proportional punishment if you will, yes. But only after the human is made alive in the body it died in, and made fully conscious of their wrong doing.


Dave" Rabbi Cahn is not a First Century Messianic Jew
ROB" OK where do I find Jewish writings of Jewish commentary written say 200BC to 50 AD?

Do such commentaries exist, I hope they do?

Dave" THE CHALLENGE TO YOU HAS ALWAYS BEEN
ROB" It's your challenge, not mine, but I am happy to help you...

Does Jewish commentary written say 200BC to 50 AD exist?

Jubilees is written when?

What about other books?

DO they speak of Satan apart from a good angel prosecuting and helping humans to sin?

Dave" DUH – DUH – and DUH
no denies the Beast of Revelation – the dragon – the serpent – we call devils and satanas
ROB" OK, so let's dig into Jewish commentary written say 200BC to 50 AD?

DO any exist? in books or writings somewhere? You are interested in this, and so I am?

ROBPP" David Bentley Hartis is writing about archons, yes, but uses this term to refer to angelic beings, not archons beings termed satanas.
Dave" Just Roberts word game
You are afraid of the word ARCHON – because Paul says they are made by God for God
This contradicts everything you stand for and teach others
ROB" Dave you invented the term satanas, not me, you make word games of Satan as a different creature, not me, Stop dodging the bullet.

I am willing to help you research, so where are Jewish commentary written say 200BC to 50 AD?

DO any of them have Satan as a satanas creature or an archon creature? or a creature like a fallen angel that sins?

Dave" If Rabbi Cahn makes Ezk 28 satan a god of evil locked in a cosmic struggle in heaven (between two gods) over God’s right to rule the universe – as Ellen White and you demand
Then - I will call his teaching "ABSOLUTE BULL SHIT – SATAN WORSHIP-"
ROB" Well that is clear.

OK , so where are Jewish commentary written say 200BC to 50 AD?

ROBPP" So where do you look for truth, and nothing but the truth?
Dave" Torah + the wisdom of our fathers + scientific fact + the NT + the authors of the NT James, John, paul, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas because they walked and talked with Jesus Christ
ROB OK so do any of these writings talk about Satan as a satanas creature or an archon creature? or a creature like a fallen angel that sins?

Or do you look into Jewish commentary written say 200BC to 50 AD?

Suggest how we investigate and validate your theories Dave?


Dave" You consider the torah scriptures as with mistakes, some even called bastard mistakes by you.
Yep – and so do all linguist that study scripture
You have no idea what they are talkig about because you just want to argue the word Bastard

There are 16 verse in the KJV textus receptus that do not exist an any of the 100s of other Greek Manuscript
What do you call them – how do you explain them?
The Gospel of Mark exist with 3 different ending
Which one is correct – how
ROB" Why does missing torah bother you and small changes?


Dave" ME NEITHER – BUT I WILL MOCK ELLEN WHITE AND HER SATAN GOD TILL THE END OF TIME
ROB" How can you say that when you have not investigated the subject matter to begin with?

So do any of these writings talk about Satan as a satanas creature or an archon creature? or a creature like a fallen angel that sins?

Or do you look into Jewish commentary written say 200BC to 50 AD?

Suggest how we investigate and validate your theories Dave?

AND you judge other suggestions before you even validate you own theories? Is that fair?

Show me anylinks where I can get hold of writings written 200BC to 50 AD? before the Roman Edit.

It's funny how people judge things without investigating the matter themselves. Many believe evolution for instance without investigating what evolution is and how evolution works.

So shall we investigate the writings that speak of Satan as a satanas creature or an archon creature? or a creature like a fallen angel that sins? We know the Gnostic writings speak of archons, does the Gnostic writing speak of satanas as a different creature to satan? You can answer that easily can't you?

Is there any Jewish writing speaking of Satan differently to a prosecuting angel ?

Is there any Jewish writings speaking of archons and using this word in a passage?

Is there any Jewish writings speaking of satanas and using this word in a passage?

Is there any Jewish writings speaking of fallen angels and using this word in a passage?

Things to help validate your theories Dave.

Enjoy your week.
Shalom

[Dave]

YHWH is referred to as Elohim (God) throughout the Hebrew Scriptures. Although Elohim is a noun with the plural ending -im -יםִ it does not mean "gods".

when Elohim is used as a numerical plural meaning "gods", for example, …false gods, it does have plural verbs, adjectives, and pronouns.

However, when referring to YHWH, Elohim always has singular verbs, adjectives, and pronouns, making it clear that it is a numerical singular, despite the plural suffix.

There are only nine exceptions to this rule, three where Elohim has plural verbs and six where Elohim has plural adjectives. Yet even in these nine passages Elohim retains its meaning of a numerical singular.

NOW you treat another JEW with distain, a Messanic Jew called Rabbi Cahn, who discusses Gordons work and makes a different view which is the same as my view. But you ignore all this calling it BS.

"The first instance of Elohim with a plural verb is in Gen 20:13.

I did look at this

Gen 20:13 ἐγένετο δὲ ἡνίκα ἐξήγαγέν με ὁ θεὸς
Verb, Aorist, Active, Indicative, Person: third [he/she/it], Number: Singular

Gen20:13 – HOT = V-Hifil-Perf-3c
Hebrew origin, verb, piel, w:wayyiqtol form (also known as waw-consecutive), 3rd person, masculine, singular

The WLC says 20:13 כִּֽי־מַשְׁחִתִים אֲנַחְנוּ אֶת־הַמָּקֹום הַזֶּה כִּֽי־גָֽדְלָה צַעֲקָתָם אֶת־פְּנֵי יְהוָה וַיְשַׁלְּחֵנוּ יְהוָה לְשַׁחֲתָֽהּ׃
@-v-p-w-3-m-s-X-1-c-p
Hebrew origin, verb, piel, w: wayyiqtol form (also known as waw-consecutive), 3rd person, masculine, singular + suffix, 1st person, common, plural

1- LXX = the verb = 3rd person singular
2- HOT = the verb = 3rd person singular
3- only the WLC says = 3rd person, singular + suffix, 1st person, plural

Admitted I do not translate Hebrew
I have spent 6 hrs plus reading about Hebrew grammar
How does 3rd person singular (He did it) –become 1st person plural (we did it)?
I do not understand – I do not translate Hebrew
As I read – I learned that Hebrew is filled with exceptions

Why a plural verb in the WLC
1- spelling error – cultural drift with time – transcription error – slang – OR a subliminal suggestion of the TRINITY – Gordons Majestic Plural

www.hadavar.org/critical-issues/anti-missionary-arguments/judaism-does-not-believe-in-the-nature-of-god-being-trinity/plural-verbs-used-with-elohim/
Most of the time when we encounter the plural noun Elohim, it is modified by a singular verb which shows that there is only one true God. However, there are exceptions.

These exceptions keep the door open for a discussion of complex, indivisible unity in the Godhead. Some examples are found in Genesis 20:13, 35:; 2 Samuel 7:; and Psalm 58:11
-------------------------------------------------------------

So is your disdain fair to others with different views?

FACT – if two Muslims – or two Buddhist forced me to accept their god – we would struggle
Submit to shirea law or lose my head – there will be a fight
If a pagan anybody asked me to accept their alternative god – we will disagree

Dave" If Rabbi Cahn makes Ezk 28 satan a god of evil locked in a cosmic struggle in heaven (between two gods) over God’s right to rule the universe – as Ellen White and you demand
Then - I will call his teaching "ABSOLUTE BULL SHIT – SATAN WORSHIP-"
ROB" Well that is clear.

I WILL MOCK ELLEN WHITE AND HER SATAN GOD TILL THE END OF TIME
ROB" How can you say that when you have not investigated the subject matter to begin with?

If a pagan anybody asked me to accept their alternative god – we will disagree
Keep it up for a year and we will struggle
Keep it up for two years and we will strongly disagree
Keep it up for three years and we will fight
Four years – I have to call BULL SHIT OUT

The very idea of two gods opposing one another in heaven struggling over God’s right to rule the universe = pagan = a fasle teaching = error = BULL SHIT

Satan is NOT A GOD – NOT co-equal with the Creator in heaven – NOT opposing God
The concept elevates satan to godhood and diminishes the Creator
Catholic satan + Ellen White two god controversy – REJECTED and considered blastphomey
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave" THE POINT – I seek the Judaism of Jesus Christ
ROB" No you don't, since when did Jesus quote Gnostic torah?

Easy –
1- The Trinity – Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is 100% Gnostic from Valentinus
The Torah does not teach a trinity – it teaches a duality
But – The Kabbalah does entertain the Trinity – God in His throne 24/7 + the Shekinah + God tabernacles in a Tent or Temple

Joh 14:9 Yeshua said to him, “Have I been with you for so long a time, and you haven’t come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one.”
Joh 10:31 Again the Judean leaders picked up stones to stone Him.
Joh 10:32 Yeshua answered them, “I’ve shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these are you going to stone Me?”
Joh 10:33 The Judean leaders answered, “We aren’t stoning you for a good work, but for blasphemy. Though You are a man, You make Yourself God!”

www.compellingtruth.org/Jesus-claim-God-deity-biblical.html
The New Testament clearly teaches that Jesus claimed to be God. The Bible also affirms the deity of Christ. This is evident in a variety of ways. First, Jesus claimed to be equal with God. He could forgive sin, something only God could do (Mark 2:5). Jesus claimed power to raise the dead (John 5:25-29). He claimed to be honored as God (John 5:18, 23) as well as to be equal with the Father (John 10:30).

Second, Jesus claimed to be the great "I Am." John 8:58 states, "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.'" This "I Am" reference is made in connection with Exodus 3:14 where God revealed His name to Moses as "I Am." Jesus' statement, then, is a biblical claim for the deity of Christ.

Christ = God

Rom 8:8 and they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you. But if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin;

Spirit of God = Spirit of Christ

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost,

Christ = the Comforter
1. Romans 8:10—“Christ is in you”
2. Second Corinthians 4:6-7—“This treasure in earthen vessels”
Christ lives in us earthen vessels as a precious treasure, revealing the glory of God to us from within.
3. Galatians 1:15-16—“His Son in me”
it pleased God to reveal His Son in me.”
4. Galatians 2:20—“It is Christ who lives in me”
5. Galatians 4:19—“Christ is formed in you”
“My children, with whom I travail again in birth until Christ is formed in you.”
6. Ephesians 3:17—“Christ may make His home in your hearts”
7. Colossians 1:27—“Christ in you”
(Cool – all Paul the Gnostic)

2- Paul absolutely taught that BELIEF is EXPERENCIAL - 2 Cor 12:1-10
Paul absolutely taught the Baptism of the Holy Spirit – Acts 19
Not the Baptism of John with water – but the Baptism of the Holy Spirit
Also from Jewish mysticism

Act 1:4 And being assembled together with them, he commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, 'Ye did hear of me;
Act 1:5 because John, indeed, baptized with water, and ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit—after not many days.'

3- Paul teaches spirituality – NOT LAW
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things,
Also from Jewish mysticism

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, 'Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;'
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, 'How is a man able to be born, being old? is he able into the womb of his mother a second time to enter, and to be born?'
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, 'Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God;
Joh 3:6 that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born of the Spirit is spirit.

4- Paul Contradicts YHWH's Dietary Law
Romans 14 – Mathew 15:16-20
It is not what goes into a man’s mouth that defiles him – but what comes out of his mouth does
1 Cor 8 Paul even says it is OK to eat sacrifices made to false gods and idols
Also from Jewish mysticism

Maybe I don’t have a good answer for this one
Mat 22:36 'Teacher, which is the great command in the Law?'
Mat 22:37 And Jesus said to him, 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thine understanding—
Mat 22:38 this is a first and great command;
Mat 22:39 and the second is like to it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself;
Mat 22:40 on these—the two commands—all the law and the prophets do hang.'

5- Paul taught the ARCHON – Eph 6:12 / Col 1:16
In Paul the world is said to be ruled by mysterious “powers” or “authorities.” The word ARCHON is used to denote these beings…
Paul taught the ARCHON
Also from Jewish mysticism – all 100% King Solomon – Beelzebub and the shedim

Jesus equated satanas (4567) with/to Beelzebub – Jewish demonology

6- (google) Why is Saint Paul considered gnostic?
Paul claimed to have a special knowledge – secret gnosis.
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Mar 4:34 - when they were alone, to His own disciples He would explain everything.
Act 1:3 -after Resurrection- appearing to them for forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God.

7- Paul taught mortal death + judgment
100% Gnostic – a demon in the sky lets you pass or keeps you in hades
100% Gnostic – Saint Peter standing at the pearly gates – letting you in if worthy
Not sure where it is in Kabbalah – but all Jews sit shiva and say the kadish

Luk 23:43 Yeshua said - today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”
--------------------------------------------------------

Dave" If he teaches Ezk 28 then he does not agree with orthodox Judaism yesterday or today
ROB" Maybe orthodox Judaism is overruled by Satan the Opposer of GOD. Have you considered this idea?
Yep – all the world – especially Judaism – has to be wrong for Ellen White to be correct

Dave" NOPE WORD MAN – Jesus was not born until 6BC Mathew or 6AD Luke
Christ is divinity – Christ is YHWY – in the OT and NT – and beyond
Rob" Why do you split Jesus as a biology entity and Christ as a infinite entity?
Because the Son of man = biology
Because the Son of God = God incarnate

And you do not have Christ as infinity, you only have a Father expression.
Christ = God = HS = eternal = infinity

Your trinity is "Father infinity = three expressions of infinity. " There is no maths of unity here.
I can apply maths to the elohiym powers, while you can't.

God = Christ = HS = ONE
---------------------------------------------

Dave" Where is your answer to my test question – When was the first time God entered His creation?
It is an easy answer for any Christian that knows his scripture
ROB" Sorry I do not have any clear answers to your question.

Joh 8:12 Yeshua spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world.
You deny that Christ is the LIGHT of the world
OR
You deny that Christ is God
OR
do you deny God is the LIGHT
1Jn 1:5 Now this is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you—that God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all.

LIGHT entered creation – Gen 1:3

Dave" Still waiting for you to answer the question
ROB" There is no verse that says the Father entered His Creation, the only way the Father enters a world of sin is via the medium. Hence is carried by the Shadday.
NOPE – your grasp of scripture as a whole is lacking – completely missing
--------------------------------------------------------

Dave" You say this in arrogance because you refuse to answer:
If the ARCHON of Eph 6:12 and Col 1:16 are not demons / devils / evil spirits /and satanas
Then who are they?
ROB" Even you scholars you posted said the archons are of angelic forces...
Yes – they are invisible ethereal spirit beings – I absolutely agree
Your suggestion that - angelic forces – can only mean cherubs is not scriptural
------------------------------------------------------------

Dave" not 3 different gods working together in a team effort
ROB" elohiym is NOY yachad, ( not 3 different gods working together in a team effort)

NOW – you have changed your own doctrine
You now deny the UNIT – army unit – multiple gods working as one

Where is your credibility? Mr flip flop
Pick one theology and stick with it – otherwise no one with take you seriously
Just more Robert contradiction
-----------------------------------------------------------

Dave" THE CHALLENGE TO YOU HAS ALWAYS BEEN
ROB" It's your challenge, not mine, but I am happy to help you...
ABSOLUTE COP OUT
You cannot demonstrate that your satan rebels, hates, or opposes God from scripture
All you have is one verse that is not validated by – precept upon precept, line upon line
+ The weight of Catholic tradition + the weight of your Ellen White tradition

Dave" Rabbi Cahn is not a First Century Messianic Jew
ROB" OK where do I find Jewish writings of Jewish commentary written say 200BC to 50 AD?
Do such commentaries exist, I hope they do?
Does Jewish commentary written say 200BC to 50 AD exist?
ROB" OK, so let's dig into Jewish commentary written say 200BC to 50 AD?
DO any exist? in books or writings somewhere? You are interested in this, and so I am?
I am willing to help you research, so where are Jewish commentary written say 200BC to 50 AD?

DO any of them have Satan as a satanas creature or an archon creature?
Yep – 100% King Solon’s shedim – Islamic Jinn – Christian demons – Gnostic archon

or a creature like a fallen angel that sins?
NOPE – not even the slightest hint
(the sinning angels = Gen 6 – and they are locked away)

Suggest how we investigate and validate your theories Dave?
1- STOP pretending that men in Israel 2000 years ago all believed in catholic theology
2- UNDERSTAND – the teaching – mind-set – of men in Israel during the first century was limited to the first century and history
3- UNDERSTAND – Jews of the first century had Jewish theology and Jewish demonology
What else could they have?
4- NOW – you have to educate yourself to “What did they know – what did they think – what did they teach”

Every effort here to expose you to Jewish thought – is just met with your disbelief – the Jew are wrong
Christianity is founded in Judaism – Judaism is NOT wrong – it is the history of Christianity

www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/5085-demonology
DEMONOLOGY
demons or evil spirits.
as spirits animating all elements of life and inhabiting all parts of the world,

Rev 12:9 - the great dragon - that old serpent, called the Devil, and satanas, which deceiveth the whole world:

have their place in the primitive belief of all tribes and races.
have their place ORIGIN in the primitive belief of all tribes and races.

Rev 12:9 - the great dragon - that old serpent, called the Devil, and satanas, which deceiveth the whole world:

Canaanite practise and belief = Chaldea,
whose demonology is in the main pre-Semitic Religion of Babylonia and Assyria,

G4567 - Σατανᾶς – Satanas - Of Chaldee origin

the "se'irim" and the "shedim."
and are identical with the jinn of the Arabian woods and deserts

100% King Solomon – 100% Islamic Jinn – 100% of Chaldean origin - ARCHON

although they are demons, these "evil messengers" (Ps. lxxviii. 49; A. V. "evil angels") do only the bidding of God,
Gnostic – the archon live a life of their own
But God can and does USE them to facilitate His Will
Hebrew mythology ascribed to the demons a certain independence, a malevolent character of their own,

they are believed to come forth, not from the heavenly abode of Yhwh, but from the nether world

Gnostic – they were the first sentient created with matter – not totally ethereal
Because they are of some matter – it/they only saw matter / themselves
This event caused their ejection from heaven
They did not transgress any Commandment – they just expressed IGNORANCE

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
Choshek – ignorance / darkness

"messengers of death" (angels of death)
Archon keep man sidetracked so we do not focus upon God / the Spirit of God / or the image of God

"The first-born of Death who devours the members of his [man's] body"
Rev 12:3 behold a great red dragon,
In a plurality - having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Rev 12:4 ready to devour her child as soon as it was born.
CREATION – ENTROPY

vampire,
the flesh-devouring ghoul of the Arabs, called by them "'aluḳ"
All pagan beliefs find their origin in King Solomon - witchcraft - magic - black arts
The shedim are "not-gods" (Deut. xxxii. 17); there is no supernatural power beyond Yhwh

Deu 32:17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God;
Deu 32:17 They sacrifice to demons—no god!
Deu 32:17 They sacrificed unto demons, which were no God,
Deu 32:17 They sacrificed to demons, a non-god,

The shedim / Jinn / Archon / demons /devils / satanas were the ‘other gods’ of the Levant and the world
But they are not God – or anything close to God -

there is no supernatural power beyond Yhwh
there is no supernatural power equal with Yhwh

NOT ONE MENTION OF SATAN OR EZK 28

jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13219-satan
SATAN:
Term used in the Bible with the general connotation of "adversary," being applied
(1) to an enemy in war (I Kings v. 18 [A. V. 4]; xi. 14, 23, 25), from which use is developed the concept of a traitor in battle (I Sam. xxix. 4);
(2) to an accuser before the judgment-seat (Ps. cix. 6); and
(3) to any opponent (II Sam. xix. 23 [A. V. 22]). …

the concept of Satan as a distinct being was not then known. ...

Satan as that member of the divine council who watches over human activity, but with the evil purpose of searching out men's sins and appearing as their accuser. He is, therefore, the celestial prosecutor, who sees only iniquity ...

Yet it is also evident from the prologue that Satan has no power of independent action, but requires the permission of God, which he may not transgress. ...

He can not be regarded, therefore, as an opponent of the Deity; and the doctrine of monotheism is disturbed by his existence no more than by the presence of other beings before the face of God.

What did the Jews of 6BC or 6AD or today teach about satan and demonology?
Next we have the Books of Enoch – Or- the Book of Giants
Both of them begin with Gen 6 – and the sinning angels messengers of Jude and 2Peter

You suggest the Book of Jubilees
IT IS NOT A HEBREW / JEWISH BOOK – it is 100% Egyptian Coptic Christian

(google) Who are the demons in the book of jubilees?
According to the Book of Jubilees, Mastema ("hostility") is the chief of the Nephilim, the demons engendered by the fallen angels called Watchers with human women.

What did the WORLD say about the other gods before Jesus Christ?

Alien space gods from the star system Sirius – in Egypt
Alien space gods from the planet Nebiru in Sumar
Alien space gods – with atomic bombs – in India
Serpent gods in India – Nagas

Rev 12:9 - the great dragon - the ancient serpent - we call devils and satanas (G4567),
Gen 3:14 Adonai Elohim said to the serpent, “Because you did this, Cursed are you above all the livestock and above every animal of the field. On your belly will you go, and dust will you eat all the days of your life.
Gen 3:15 I will put animosity between you (serpent) and the woman—between your (serpent) seed and her seed. He will crush your head, and you will crush his heel.”

REPTILE WORSHIP? The Secret of Lizard Gods
YouTube · PraveenMohan
Some claim that in Ancient India, a type of Lizard people or Lizard Gods existed, and they co-existed with humans.
------------------------------------------------------------------

ROBPP" David Bentley Hartis is writing about archons, yes, but uses this term to refer to angelic beings, not archons beings termed satanas.
Dave" Just Roberts word game
You are afraid of the word ARCHON – because Paul says they are made by God for God
This contradicts everything you stand for and teach others
ROB" Dave you invented the term satanas, not me, you make word games of Satan as a different creature, not me, Stop dodging the bullet.

I invented NT scripture?
G4567 - Σατανᾶς – Satanas - Of Chaldee origin used 36 times in 33 verses

Dave" You consider the torah scriptures as with mistakes, some even called bastard mistakes by you.
Yep – and so do all linguist that study scripture
ROB" Why does missing torah bother you and small changes?

WOW HAVE YOU CHANGED – you came here barking KJV textus receptus – sola scriptorum
Your version is INFALIBLE – inspired - perfect
NO IT IS NOT – word for word – or even sentence for sentence

ROB" Why missing / corrupted torah bother you

Easy answer - I am a defender of the faith – I can do no other
Christendom – Catholic sponsored organized religion teaches error – with arrogance
It only harms the faith – the more the church / religion is proven to be error – the more people fall away
Your version is INFALIBLE – inspired - perfect
NO IT IS NOT – word for word – or even sentence for sentence

Which ending of Mark is correct? – how do you know

nelson.ink/which-ending-of-marks-gospel-is-correct/
First-time readers of Mark’s Gospel are often confused over its bizarre ending. Evidence of genuine Christianity is said to include the handling deadly snakes and drinking poison (Mark 16:18). In most Bibles, this bizarre ending in accompanied with a footnote indicating that the most authoritative manuscripts omit Mark 16:9-20. While comforting to some, for others this footnote raises more questions: How exactly did a different ending end up in one of the Gospels? What does this say about the rest of Mark—or the entire New Testament? Can we really trust our Bibles or has the text been drastically changed along the way?

John 6:5 – was the ministry of Jesus 70 weeks – or 2.5 years?
If 70 weeks – what does that say about Daniels prophesy
If 2.5 years or 3.5 years – why doesn’t Jesus show up in history
I long lived religious rebellion lasting years should have made the news in the larger world

Was Jesus born in 6AD when King Herod was king –or 6AD when his grandson was king
Did Jesus escape to Egypt at age 2 – or did the family move to Galilee when Jesus was 10 days old
Was Jesus rich with gold frankincense and myre – or poor requiring only 2 doves as an offering

Why does it matter – IS CHRISTIANITY BULL SHIT – or FACT
CREDIBILITY

Evidence of genuine Christianity is said to include the handling deadly snakes and drinking poison (Mark 16:18)
REALLY?

The way Christianity has been – and is – presented =
Can we really trust our Bibles or has the text been drastically changed along the way?
If you have doubts and learn this – you feel lied to

Gnostic Christianity – JUST BE HONEST
Can we really trust our Bibles –
yes as to the message – any religion bases on a word or a verse is error

has the text been changed along the way
ABSOLUTELY YES – some is human error – some is deliberate Roman Edit – some is satanic
Some of it is a cultural misunderstanding
Your assumption that OT Jews believed in your Catholic Ezk 28 self-made satan god of evil is a cultural misunderstanding

Has the text been drastically changed along the way
I SAY THIS – in the long list of rejected text from the canon – many of them discuss the reality of the archon – Eph 6:12
A whole text dedicated to Eph 6:12 – discusses at length in a few more
All of it just Jewish demonology
WHO WOULD WANT TO QUASH THIS? - And inventing Catholic satan at the same time – as a god

It's funny how people judge things without investigating the matter themselves. Many believe evolution for instance without investigating what evolution is and how evolution works.
Yep – and you are one of them – denying the order of creation in favor of Creationism

Is there any Jewish writing speaking of Satan differently to a prosecuting angel ?
1- an enemy as an adversary
2- a man as an adversary
3- an angel accusing man of his sin

Is there any Jewish writings speaking of archons and using this word in a passage?
Dispensation
You are asking – is there any Roman writings (250BC-500AD) about 18th century Australia
ANSWER = NO – if the Roman wrote anything about “it” they called it something else

OT Jews call them shedim
Islam calls them Jinn
First century Greek authors called them Archon
The Catholic Church calls them demons
Some call them gods
Some call them serpent gods
Modern man calls them superstation

Is there any Jewish writings speaking of satanas and using this word in a passage?
Jesus called satanas G4567 Beelzebub – who is the king of Jewish demons

Is there any Jewish writings speaking of fallen angels and using this word in a passage?
YES – the reference is not to Catholic satan or Ezk 28
YES – the OT Jewish reference = Gen 6

The middle of the story – the archon (fallen angels) fathered the Nephilim demi-gods
THIS IS ALWAYS DISCRIBED AS THEIR SIN / CRIME – reproducing out of their kind
The end of the story – they caused the flood – and they are locked away Jude 2Peter

The begining always stars with – the fallen angels that came down to earth –
Enoch, Book of Giants, Book of Jubilees
Jude – they left their first estate

Scripture says – they have been here since Gen 1:2 – this is their home world – their kingdom

Were they here – or did they fall from heaven?
Gnostic – there were and ARE always here – invisible
But can appear – appear in different forms (shapeshift)
The group that came down – left their first estate – became visible – fully biological
To father the Nephilim
Which is their sin – reproducing out of their own kind

[rob]

Dave"
Satan is NOT A GOD – NOT co-equal with the Creator in heaven – NOT opposing God
there is no supernatural power beyond Yhwh
there is no supernatural power equal with Yhwh
ROB" I agree but the Hebrew word means "Opposer" not a strong authority equal in power to infinity.

Any creature that sins is by definition, opposing God.
Do you agree with this idea?

Archons mean "prince" the Hebrew word "Sar".

A prince in a kingdom has to have free will to rule, and choose to rule properly or improperly. Function or dsyfunction, Good or Evil. Hence free will to sin.

You twist free will to only be about choosing God, but the term is about choosing to sin, thus opposing God.

Dave" He can not be regarded, therefore, as an opponent of the Deity;
ROB" Listen to the OT verse

1Ki 22:22 ....And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.

Who is this creature saying he will go as a lying medium?

"Lying" by definition is a sin. But Dave thinks lying is not a sin.

This lying medium cannot be a normal angel, because Sinai files the Jews say the angels uphold the ten commandment laws, the angels do not break these laws, or sin.

So who is this creature?

Dave" Why does it matter – IS CHRISTIANITY BULL SHIT – or FACT
CREDIBILITY
ROB" You raise questions that I cannot answer. SO some answers of the past, have to remain unanswerable.

Are you posing a different Bible message with less errors and less mistakes?
===============

One question God showed me this week

Archons is a term meaning prince. DO you agree with this idea?

So how can a prince be a prince without free will to rule over his kingdom?
Hence your archon princes have to have free will, in order to be archon princes of earth.

Question:

What did the archon princes look like as shedim in carvings by humans?

RobPP" Suggest how we investigate and validate your theories Dave?
1- STOP pretending that men in Israel 2000 years ago all believed in catholic theology
ROB" I am researching Murduk at the moment, written in the Bible as "BEL".

Murduk is a shedim god. What did it look like? as a carving on a wall of stone?

Shalom

[Dave]

Dave"
Satan is NOT A GOD – NOT co-equal with the Creator in heaven – NOT opposing God
there is no supernatural power beyond Yhwh
there is no supernatural power equal with Yhwh
ROB" I agree but the Hebrew word means "Opposer" not a strong authority equal in power to infinity.

Absolutely Correct
The Great Controversy and God's Love for Humanity
Adventist.org - www.adventist.org › the-great-controversy
This epic battle is sometimes referred to as the “Great Controversy,” the conflict between God and Satan.
Is a Zoroaserian pagan religion

Absolutely Correct
Isa 14:13 You said in your heart: “I will ascend to heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God. I will sit upon the mount of meeting, in the uttermost parts of the north.
Is all about the arrogance of man – and nothing to do with your Catholic satan
-------------------------------------

Any creature that sins is by definition, opposing God.
Do you agree with this idea?
No one can oppose God – the teaching is satanic blasphemy

You can pretend to oppose God with all your might
You will never change God – change God’s Plan – effect God’s Will
All you will succeed in doing = commit spiritual suicide
Lake of Fire backflip off the high board
You choice!
Free Will
----------------------------------------------

Archons mean "prince" the Hebrew word "Sar".
The archon are the ‘sar’ of this world – this world is his Kingdom
The ‘sar’ of Persian is an archon (a subordinate General / Captain under the King ‘sar’ of this world)

A prince in a kingdom has to have free will to rule, and choose to rule properly or improperly. Function or dsyfunction, Good or Evil. Hence free will to sin.

No such thing as non-God gods ruling properly – DUH
The mission of the archon is to keep man focused upon world – instead of God
The mission of the archon = entropy – wear down tear down – destroy
This world will pass away – it is temporary – it is an illusion

THE ONLY MAN-MADE THING THAT HAS EXISTED FOR 5000 YEARS = Judaism

You twist free will to only be about choosing God, but the term is about choosing to sin, thus opposing God.
Choosing God – agreed
Choosing sin – agreed – choosing world – self – self-gratification – (yester ra)
thus opposing God.
You can pretend to oppose God with all your might
You will never change God – change God’s Plan – effect God’s Will
All you will succeed in doing = commit spiritual suicide
Lake of Fire backflip off the high board
Your choice!
Free Will
---------------------------------

Dave" He can not be regarded, therefore, as an opponent of the Deity;
ROB" Listen to the OT verse
1Ki 22:22 ....And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.
Who is this creature saying he will go as a lying medium?

1- NOT Dave – Judaism 101 satan can not be regarded, as an opponent of God
Hebrew satan is an angel of the Lord in service to the Lord

2- STOP MISSREPRESENTING SCRIPTURE
STOP PULLING OUT SINGLE VERSES – OUT OF CONTEXT
YOUR ROBERT METHODE IS ERROR

1Ki 22:20 Then Adonai said, ‘Who will entice Ahab to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’ One suggested this and another that,
1Ki 22:21 until a certain spirit came forward and stood before Adonai and said, ‘I will entice him.’ So Adonai asked him, ‘How?’
1Ki 22:22 And he said: ‘I will go and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ Then He said: ‘You shall entice him and shall prevail also—go and do so.’

Who is this creature saying he will go as a lying medium?
A volunteer angelic / ethereal spirit in service to the Lord

"Lying" by definition is a sin. But Dave thinks lying is not a sin.
Explain why your FEEL GOOD God that can only do tov – commands an enteral angelic spirit t sin

This lying medium cannot be a normal angel, because Sinai files the Jews say the angels uphold the ten commandment laws, the angels do not break these laws, or sin.
So who is this creature?

It is an ethereal angelic spirit from the LEFT HAND of God
An archon – an evil spirit – a demon – a shedim – a Jinn – all being USED by God
---------------------------------------------------

Dave" Why does it matter – IS CHRISTIANITY BULL SHIT – or FACT
CREDIBILITY
ROB" You raise questions that I cannot answer. SO some answers of the past, have to remain unanswerable.
ABSOLUTE PRE-PROGRAMMED ROMAN RELIGIOUS COP OUT
Just take it on faith = just believe the church (Roman Christendom)

Are you posing a different Bible message with less errors and less mistakes?
Not my creation – Jesus was a Jew – His disciples were Jews – His followers were Jews – Christian theology of the first century (Book of Acts) was Jewish theology + Jewish demonology + the Messiah + the Baptism of the Holy Spirit

I am proposing a return to the Christianity taught by Jesus Christ and His Disciples

I am proposing

Dec 19, 2023 17:39:03 GMT -5 Dave said:

Gnostic Christianity – JUST BE HONEST

ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/621/gnostic-christianity-honest?page=1&scrollTo=9663
===============

One question God showed me this week
Archons is a term meaning prince. DO you agree with this idea?
So how can a prince be a prince without free will to rule over his kingdom?
Hence your archon princes have to have free will, in order to be archon princes of earth.
ANSWERED

Dec 21, 2023 13:30:37 GMT -5 Dave said:

Rabbi Cahn - "the return of the gods."

ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/619/rabbi-cahn-return-gods?page=2&scrollTo=9671

Question:
What did the archon princes look like as shedim in carvings by humans?
ANSWERED

Dec 21, 2023 13:30:37 GMT -5 Dave said:

Rabbi Cahn - "the return of the gods."

ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/619/rabbi-cahn-return-gods?page=2&scrollTo=9671


RobPP" Suggest how we investigate and validate your theories Dave?
1- STOP pretending that men in Israel 2000 years ago all believed in catholic theology
ROB" I am researching Murduk at the moment, written in the Bible as "BEL".

Marduk – is a space alien god from the planet Nebiru
One of many space alien gods of Sumar lone before Abram

Zecharia Sitchin
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Zecharia_Sitchin
This planet is called Nibiru (although Jupiter was the planet associated with the god Marduk in Babylonian cosmology). According to Sitchin, Nibiru

Chapter 4: Of Gods and Demigods - Zecharia Sitchin Index
zsitchinindex.wordpress.com › chapter-4-of-go...
marduk zecharia sitchin from zsitchinindex.wordpress.com
The decision of Marduk to stay in or near the contested lands and to involve his son in the struggle for Mankind's allegiance persuaded the Enlilites to ...

Marduk King of Earth: Book Four of the Anunnaki Series
www.amazon.com › Marduk-King-Earth-Book...
marduk zecharia sitchin from www.amazon.com
The Anunnaki to help explain Zecharia Sitchin's books. I did learn more about Marduk that ...

The 12th Planet: Zecharia Sitchin
www.amazon.com › ...
marduk zecharia sitchin from www.amazon.com
Zecharia Sitchin is an internationally acclaimed author and researcher whose books offer evidence that we are not alone in our own solar system.

Review of 'The 12th Planet'
sacred-texts.com › ufo › sitchin
THE 12th PLANET - by Zecharia Sitchin Reviewed by Vince Johnson In his book ... According to Sitchin, the 12th planet, Marduk, while making its approach to ...

AFTER THE FLOOD – the Watchers / Nephilim were ejected OFF WORLD
Gnostic – they were ejected to the seven visible cosmic orbs
Moon? – Sun? – Mars? – Jupiter? – Saturn? – Nebiru?

The Watchers – watch man – from space

Jun 1, 2012 13:20:49 GMT -5 Dave said:

UFO documentary from Russia
Valery Uvarov, a Russian space researcher and ufologist concludes in the Russian press that Aliens are studying both mankind and our 3 dimensional reality, in search for their own version of a unified theory of their reality. They are looking for their God, from whom they have been disconnected somehow. Their research has revolved around the long drawn out religious slow play of humanity.

The following links to the documentary are for parts 10 of 12 and 11 of 12.
This is not my most favorite documentary - but the interview with Valery Uvarov is a must see. His interview begins at 5:21 of part 10 and then continues into part 11. The punch line of his whole interview is at the beginning of part 11.

Part 10
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hga0TksYBUE

Part 11
www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2nLglJ0YVg

[rob]

Greetings Dave
Dave" No one can oppose God – the teaching is satanic blasphemy
Rob" Do you understand what oppose means?

Mt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

How is it these pious so called Christians casting out demons in the name of Jesus, do not know Jesus, and Jesus says ye work iniquity?

Dave" You can pretend to oppose God with all your might

ROb" These pious people do many wonderful things in the name of Jesus, but they oppose Jesus? How is that possible?

Shalom

[Dave]

How is it these pious so called Christians casting out demons in the name of Jesus,
EASY

(wiki) In Catholic practice, the person performing the exorcism, known as an exorcist, must be an ordained priest. The exorcist recites prayers according to the rubrics of the rite, and makes use of religious materials such as icons, sacramentals (e.g. holy water), and holy relics.

CATHOLICS

How is it these pious so called non-christians casting out demons in the name of Jesus,

And ISLAM

Spirit possession and exorcism in Islam
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Spirit_possession_and_e...
This practice is called al-'azm or ruqya and exorcists are called raqi.

Exorcism in Islam
YouTube · Bilal Philips
In this lecture, Dr. Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips explains the Islamic point of view on exorcism. Most people's understanding of exorcism is ...

The practices of a raqi (Islamic exorcist) in Stockholm
link.springer.com › Contemporary Islam
by M Marlow · 2022 — In the first section, the principles and methods of his version of ruqya (Islamic exorcism) are described: which Qur'anic passages he perceives ...

Islam and reality of exorcism and jinn
www.alhakam.org › Discourse › Islam
Jan 29, 2021 — Reem Shraiky, UK. Exorcism is the practice of removing evil spirits and it is common in many faiths.

Exorcism in Islam
repository.uwtsd.ac.uk › ...
by AAB Philips · 1993 · Cited by 1 — exorcists throughout the Muslim world at different points during their exorcisms. ... exorcism is, "How does Islam explain the successful exorcisms performed by.

How Possessing, Lovesick and Avenging Jinns are ...
brill.com › journals › jome › article-p194_4
Ruqya in Europe seems to include less physical violence, and it is implicitly used to counter Muslim assimilation and uphold orthodox Islamic values. Keywords.

Islamic exorcism and psychiatry: a film monograph
www.jstor.org › stable
Over several years, Christian Suhr followed Muslim patients being treated for jinn possession and psychosis in a Danish mosqueand in a psychiatric hospital.

[rob]

OH so the pious ones are using the Opposers power to cast out some of the fallen angels from his own kingdom, making it appear to the human he is doing some righteous thing for His Lord.

Clever deception don't you think?

So how does a human know he is with GOD to with the Opposer to GOD?

Shalom

[Dave]

OH so the pious ones are using the Opposers power to cast out some of the fallen angels from his own kingdom, making it appear to the human he is doing some righteous thing for His Lord.
Clever deception don't you think?

PERFECT – AGREE – DECEPTION – Are-CON MEN
100% Jewish – 100% Gnostic

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.

Subtil – BEAST of the field - which the LORD God had made.

PERFECT – AGREE – DECEPTION – Are-CON MEN
100% Jewish – 100% Gnostic

So how does a human know he is with GOD to with the Opposer to GOD?
Fantastic Question

The world will say – cultural location and indoctrination
If you are born in India = 99.99% chance you are born into a Hindu family – and you are Hindu
If you are born in Israel = 99.99% chance you are born into a Jewish family – and you are Jewish
If you are born in the West = 99.99% chance you are born into a Western Christendom family – and you are Western Christendom

All this is culturally true – But
Psa 19:2 – Rom 1:19-20 – to anyone that seriously looks = no excuse

Gnostic –
1- the corner church serve a purpose – there needs to be an open door somewhere to begin your Christian journey
2- once there – you learn NOT precepts of men – know you scripture – be serious
Use the Word of God as a sword

You can DRINK THE KOOL-AID and sit there for the rest of your life hearing John 3:16 over and over

3- OR – you can become verse in the word – academic – just the facts – be honest – study – seek

1Th 5:16 Rejoice evermore.
Even in your pain and hardship – it is just a contest

1Th 5:17 Pray without ceasing.
1Th 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
Even in your pain and hardship – it is just a contest

1Th 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.
1Th 5:20 Despise not prophesyings.
If you have been touched by the Spirit – you cannot stay quite – you everyone – especially those close to you – salvation is absolutely real and is a free gift

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Things only happened one way – God’s way
All correct data must point to that truth – God

You just read up about Marduck
What Gnostic Christian value did it have for you?
1- it did not validate your Ezk 28 self-made god of evil that rebels, hates and opposes God
2- it spoke of a much different ancient world of other gods – and possibly space gods

1Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

1Co 10:23 Everything is permitted”—but not everything is helpful. “Everything is permitted”—but not everything builds up.
1Co 10:24 Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor.
1Co 10:25 Eat whatever is sold in the meat market, without raising questions of conscience.
1Co 10:26 For “the earth is the Lord’s, and its fullness.”
1Co 10:27 If an unbeliever invites you over and you want to go, eat whatever is set before you, without raising questions of conscience.
1Co 10:28 But if anyone says to you, “This is from an idol sacrifice,” do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for the sake of conscience—
1Co 10:29 not your own conscience, I mean, but the other person’s. For why is my freedom judged by another’s conscience?

appearance of evil
Paul says – if it spoils your message – don’t do it – don’t eat it – don’t say it

Christian pastor do more to harm their personal message by their personal conduct

These 24 Pastors Were All Arrested for Sex Crimes against children
BishopAccountability.org - www.bishop-accountability.org › news2015 › 2...
Jul 2, 2015 — The good folks at Awkward Moments Children's Bible keep an eye on local stories

Former Church Pastor Sentenced to Two Years in Prison ...
Department of Justice (.gov) - www.justice.gov › usao-edpa › former-church-...
Sep 5, 2023 — Romero announced that Rooldy Alexandre, 54, of Willingboro, NJ, was sentenced to 24 months of incarceration, three years of supervised release, ...

Canadian Pastor Sentenced to 10 Years in Prison for Hate Crimes
Department of Justice (.gov) - www.justice.gov › usao-edmi › canadian-pastor...
Jun 2, 2023 — Timothy Milley, 69, of suburban Toronto, Canada, was sentenced by United States District Judge Judith E. Levy. In October 2022, Milley was ...

Another Pastor Jailed, This One for Alleged 'Hate Crimes'
Charisma News - www.charismanews.com › World
Apr 10, 2023 — Pastor Artur Pawlowski, jailed repeatedly for non-compliance with COVID protocols during the pandemic, was recently released from prison after ...

So how does a human know he is with GOD to with the Opposer to GOD?
Fantastic Question

The world will say – cultural location and indoctrination
true – But
Psa 19:2 – Rom 1:19-20 – to anyone that seriously looks = no excuse

The whole point of OT Israel = to prove the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the One true God
The age of the gentile = evangelize the whole world
How well have we done? How well has Roman Christendom done?

The whole point of 1948 Israel = to prove the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the One true God
The whole point of (the final battle) = to prove the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the One true God

Why is Israel the oldest language – oldest culture – oldest people – the only surviving ancient culture / religion
The whole point = to prove the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the One true God

Torah teaches one true God – there is no other
Robert has a family of multiple gods working together so relational love can exist

Robertt – Yes, I have two gods and two kings – what’s wrong with that?

Torah teaches there are two three types of people
The 99% - the lost
The average religious Jew – Elisha’s servant
The Spiritual Jew – Elisha – who could see

Valentinus taught three types of Christian
The Lost
The believer
The Spiritual

Jesus Christ taught the Spiritual
Robert – no such thing – it is satanic - no such this as spirit

Torah teaches that Hebrew satan is heavens prosecutor
Robert teaches he is the god of evil that rebels, hates, and opposes God

Jesus Christ said He did not come to change anything but to fulfil
Roberts says everything changed

So how does a human know he is with GOD to with the Opposer to GOD?
Fantastic Question

[rob]

Greetings

My answer to this fantastic question is

"by their fruits ye shall know them"

But what happens if a person is ignorant of all truth and is deceived and so lives by a little truth he knows only as truth? Can God overlook their ignorance and save them regardless?

I have no answer to this question, do you?

SHalom