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Post by Dave on Apr 8, 2022 17:02:02 GMT -5
www.nonsda.org/egw/criticf.shtmlEGW Investigation - Historical BlundersBy Brother Anderson, Oct. 2009 Ellen White claimed to have witnessed Biblical scenes in vision and she later wrote out those scenes in her books: 1. Dead Wrong about Herod 2. Wrong about John the Baptist's Death 3. Wrong about Solomon's Temple 4. Wrong about the Waldenses Also an interesting read – they make many valid pointsOne tiny error and it must all be garbage – Robert’s rule The False Teachers: Ellen G. White | Tim Challieshttps://www.challies.com › articles › the-false-teachers-e... Mar 16, 2014 — Ellen G. White is considered a great spiritual leader, but the Bible counters much of what she taught and what her church teaches today. Did Ellen White Contradict the Bible over 50 times?whiteestate.org › issues-contradictions-html D&D conclude: In 1873 EGW contradicted the Bible when she said Elijah was fed by an angel. Then three years later in 1876 she changed her mind and agreed with ... Biblical error in the writings of Ellen G White - isitso.orghttps://www.isitso.org › guide › sdaerror The following samples of obvious Biblical errors in some of the teachings of Ellen G White (EGW) are excerpted from an anonymous web collection.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2022 17:12:08 GMT -5
Happy Sabbath
sogentlybroken.blogspot.com/
I had a read over his website, and comments, may not be around, newest comments seem 2015?
I agree the Clear Word is a terrible paraphrase of the torah.
I quote his words" 5: In Adventist theology there is no human spirit. It is excluded by the doctrine of soul sleep. Spirit, when referring to humanity, is considered to be the animating breath of life, “the spark of life” breathed into a person to bring them to life and nothing more. Therefore, when a person dies it cannot be any sentient entity that returns to God, but a mere animating breath."
He seems to think the "breath of life" is some "spark" that God gives us, is wrong thinking.
SDA people have little to say about the breath of life.
ANd this "
If you have one of these books, please consider discarding it so that no one under your influence will be deceived by its words. If you have seen the contrast between the clear words of scripture and the teachings of Adventism, determine in your heart to get to the bottom of the differences. Ask the Holy Spirit to “lead you into all truth,” and He will be delighted to answer that prayer. You can be free of the dark shadows of the doctrine of the Investigative Judgment that have caused you to doubt your salvation today. I invite you to pray the prayer below and move into a new relationship of light and certainty in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
I note he views the HS as a "he" whatever that means?
I will consider asking him for continued comments, if he is still around?
One of the reasons why I am disappointed with my own church, I haven't been to church since COVID and they stopped us visiting.
SHalom
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2022 17:34:23 GMT -5
www.nonsda.org/egw/criticf.shtmlR" OK I will look into one of these errors, it only takes one remember? In 1858, Mrs. White writes about Herod as if the same Herod who took part in Christ's trial also killed the apostle James: "Herod's heart had grown still harder; and when he heard that Christ had risen, he was not much troubled. He took the life of James, and when he saw that this pleased the Jews, he took Peter also, intending to put him to death."3 Herod's [ It was Herod Antipas who took part in the trial of Christ, and Herod Agrippa I who put James to death. Agrippa was nephew and brother-in-law of Antipas. Through intrigue he secured the throne of Antipas for himself, and on coming to power pursued the same course toward the Christians that Antipas had followed. In the Herodian dynasty there were six persons who bore the name of Herod. It thus served in a measure as a general title, the individuals being designated by other names, as Antipas, Philip, Agrippa, etc. So we might say Czar Nicholas, Czar Alexander, etc. In the present instance this use of the term becomes more natural and appropriate inasmuch as Agrippa, when he put James to death, occupied the throne of Antipas, who a little before had been concerned in the trial of Christ; and he manifested the same character. It was the same Herodian spirit, only in another personality, as “the dragon” of Revelation 12:17 is the same as the dragon of verse 3, the real inspiring power in each being the dragon of verse 9. In the one case he works through pagan Rome; in the other through our own government.] heart had grown still harder; and when he heard that Christ had risen, he was not much troubled. He took the life of James, and when he saw that this pleased the Jews, he took Peter also, intending to put him to death. But God had a work for Peter to do, and sent his angel to deliver him. Herod was visited with the judgments of God. While exalting himself in the presence of a great multitude, he was smitten by the angel of the Lord, and died a most horrible death. The historical facts are that Herod Antipas was the Herod who took part in the trial of Christ. Herod Antipas was banished to Lyons in France, by Caligula in AD 41. After his banishment, the provinces which he governed were given to Herod Agrippa. Agrippa was the Herod who put James to death, cast Peter in prison, and was smitten of God, and expired in AD 44.4 Mrs. White was wrong in saying the same Herod who killed John the Baptist and witnessed the trial of Jesus was the Herod who killed James. This mistake was corrected when her book was republished in 1878: "He [Herod] seized upon James and cast him into prison, and there sent an executioner to kill him with a sword, as another Herod had caused the prophet John to be beheaded. He then became bolder, seeing that the Jews were pleased with his acts, and imprisoned Peter."5 This small mistake would probably be overlooked as of little importance if not for the fact that Mrs. White claimed to have seen all of these events in vision. This illustrates the fact that the events she wrote about were not witnessed by her in visions; rather, she "saw" them written on the pages of the books she was plagiarizing from. R" Ok the ellenWhiteWritings estate has placed details in the words since than? So if EGW was plagiarizing rather than writing a vision message, show us the plagiarism words from the source book? Or was she reacting to her Hebrew English? I get the impression "Herod Antipas" is a "Herod" and "Herod Agrippa" is also a "Herod" what is the problem, for Hebrew understanding? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Apr 9, 2022 9:30:43 GMT -5
www.nonsda.org/egw/criticf.shtmlR" OK I will look into one of these errors, it only takes one remember?You have failed to answer several questions already – you are pretending our previous conversation never happened – you are just trying to move on in a new subject – WITHOUT admitting you failures
Where is you academic honesty - do you have any?6. WAS THE PLAN OF SALVATION MADE AFTER THE FALL?EGW: YES BIBLE: NO 7. WAS ADAM WITH EVE WHEN SHE WAS TEMPTED IN THE GARDEN?EGW: NO BIBLE: YES 8. WAS ADAM DECEIVED BY SATAN?EGW: YES "Satan, who is the father of lies, deceived Adam in a similar way, telling him that he need not obey God, that he would not die if he transgressed the law" (Evangelism, p. 598). BIBLE: NO " 1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.You gave up - you avoided the truth – you deflected – you attempted to change the subject We did not even get to question #99. WHO PLUCKED THE FRUIT?EGW: THE SERPENT “The serpent plucked the fruit of the forbidden tree and placed it in the hands of the half-reluctant Eve.” (Patriarchs and Prophets, p. 55). EGW: EVE “Without a fear she (Eve) plucked and ate.” (Patriarchs and Prophets, p. 56). BIBLE: EVE “When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it.” (Genesis 3:6). Ellen White contradicts herself as well as scripture Scripture does not support Ellen WhiteAND NOW YOU SAY - R" OK I will look into one of these errors, it only takes one remember? YOU HAVE A DOUBLE STANDARD – FLIP FLOP MAN – you make rules for others – and do not follow you own rulesIf there is one tiny error it is all garbage – Robert’s rule for othersIn 1858, Mrs. White writes about Herod … This small mistake would probably be overlooked as of little importance if not for the fact that Mrs. White claimed to have seen all of these events in vision. This illustrates the fact that the events she wrote about were not witnessed by her in visions; Oops!AND NOW YOU SAY - R" OK I will look into one of these errors, it only takes one remember?YOU HAVE A DOUBLE STANDARD – FLIP FLOP MAN – you make rules for others – and do not follow you own rulesIf there is one tiny error it is all garbage – Robert’s rule for othersR" Ok the ellenWhiteWritings estate has placed details in the words since than?I thought her words were all inspired – she claimed to be a prophet AND NOW YOU SAY - R" OK I will look into one of these errors, it only takes one remember?YOU HAVE A DOUBLE STANDARD – FLIP FLOP MAN – you make rules for others – and do not follow you own rulesIf there is one tiny error it is all garbage – Robert’s rule for others
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2022 15:43:07 GMT -5
Pardon me Dave, but I have been through a few of these so called false claims you make, and defended them well enough, so I thought? If making Ellen White into a false prophet is so important to you, why is this so important to you? You do not follow her anyway, whereas I do.
If fact you have no inspired strong authority in which to follow in your understanding of torah, you more or less follow your own theories, you might claim to be following the HS, but than you can't be, because one of the gifts of following the HS is the gift of prophets, in your assemblies of truth, and you do not attend assemblies of people, that I know of, so where is you flock or fold the Lord God calls to assemble each Sabbath?
Yes I admit many problems with my fold, infiltrated by wolves in sheep clothing, but I do have an assembly with a prophet, and these things are required by the torah in the latter days.
You even admit that Luke and Matthew write different things on Jesus birth You admit you don't like Ezekiel the prophet, who write different things on offerings, and fallen angels. You don't really expect the people were told every minute detail by the Lord, or did the people write as moved by the HS? What is the point of your mocking? Just to exalt your Christian Gnostic views, above all others. OK so where is this Christian Gnostic Assembly, and does it meet on Sabbath days, with much of it's doctrines published online with Pastors etc who are similar to Messanic Jews perhaps?
6. WAS THE PLAN OF SALVATION MADE AFTER THE FALL?
We have been through this. God know all things about sin before sin happened. However that is not the same as experiencing all things. The experience happens as time progresses. Do you understand the difference between knowing and experiencing?
The ceremonial laws of sin-offering based on amanuah, was founded in the mind of GOD, as a provision for what ?
(1) Sin, no not sin per se' but for unfair sinning.
You do not have absolute moral laws in a God system, so how in the world can you write and say anything with logical reasons. But I can, and do.
When a creature sins, they can simply repent and return back to GOD, and GOD forgives them freely. That is one system of grace and forgiveness, not sin-offering is required for this confession. The reason for this is because the creature has not fallen (in the sense of experiencing entropy or ra or the consequences of sinning, which causes eternal condemnation to the sinner). I get the impression that the consequences of sinning is driven by the relationship of the sinning creature to God, and God has the ability to overshadow the sin with His light, so the sin-offering is not unto death, meaning some conditions of sinning God can repair and forgive, so this creature can come back to God and remain perfectly wholly as before the creature sinned.
Ezekiel says cherubims sinned. Many of these angels repented, but many did not repent.
Jesus writes the these opposing angels fell from heaven like lightning. This implies there was a war in heaven, that quickly caused the sinning angels to fall unto the earth, which for these angels is a prison house.
The bare rocky earth was in RA because the sinning angels were banished there.
In the moral law it reads "If a mischief maker does mischief to the womb of the creature, that mischief maker must pay his life for the life of the children thus damaged. "
This is why Jesus died for sin-offering, in order to claim back the damaged children of the womb of the HS, who was attacked by the mischief maker, in order to make humans experience sinning different to the sinning of angels. As humans because of mischief, our DNA is not fallen, so we cannot repent because our biology is also fallen and thus requires a renewed body.
This is why the system of salvation of humans was planned from eternity but not acted upon, because the mischief maker made mischief during time, and the Saviour made reactions to that misschief during time, so the experience is different to the knowledge.
In summary I do not find any source here wrong. You mock these entire presentation in many facets, so you do not agree? SO why attack a prophet, when we can discuss your silly idea that earth did not pre-exist creation, but was also created during Gen 1:2. I do not agree with you here. But you mock this idea, even a Rabbi I showed you agreed that earth did pre-exist, and you ignore his comments as well.
Mockers love mocking and so look for other ways to mock. You should not do this. We have discussed differences in many aspects of Scripture.
You asked me for a people who support the cherub sinned idea long before Rome you assume did. I showed you two accounts, the CHinese have a secret opposer in the garden, making 4 "white-lies" to Even, thus helping her to sin against God. I also showed you the Waldenses wrote of a devil long before Rome edit in 300 AD.
7. WAS ADAM WITH EVE WHEN SHE WAS TEMPTED IN THE GARDEN?
We have discussed this also? Eve was separated from Adam, both were in the garden, but the serpent spoke to her alone (separated).
8. WAS ADAM DECEIVED BY SATAN?
D"BIBLE: NO " 1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
You gave up - you avoided the truth – you deflected – you attempted to change the subject
R" Eve was cheated by the serpent, and so transgressed.
Was Adam cheated in the same was as Eve? No He was cheated in a different way, Adam chose to die with Eve, hoping that the devil's words that one would not dying die was true somehow.
However it is still a deception.
You claim the spirits of Adam and Eve had bodies inherent with entropy. If that is so, why the naked change immediately after they sinned? Something changed afterwards that did not change before sin.
Your view is so full of holes, and your brevity will not discuss with me. Obviously the sin changed the relationship with GOD and immediately had affect, they began dying to die immediately.
Entropy does not affect you immediately if entropy is inherent within your body, so your theory is wrong.
What caused the immediate death dying process is the HS shrank taking away their clothing of coloured light, exposing their skin, and the penal gland was immediately switched off, or damaged, thus they lost communication with GOD. This might explain why the conscience is a still small and tiny voice, we can barely hear GOD speaking to us these days?
This kind of loss is not from entropy but from broken relationship to GOD, and the affects of RA was immediate, the consequences of sinning terrible.
9. WHO PLUCKED THE FRUIT?
Why talk about this when you mock a prophet anyhow? What is a prophet? A person who writes stuff other prophets do not write about, like Matt and Luke and Ezekiel and Mrs White.
So the devil gave a fruit to Eve, and later Eve plucked another for herself. What is the problem?
D"If there is one tiny error it is all garbage – Robert’s rule for others
R Yes Dave, but you already admit torah has errors? Why do you bother reading a Bible of errors?
Sure the Scriptures has things we do not understand, its the fact we do not understand that makes Scripture proof its divine inspired.
You response to all this writing by me is to stick to a small point that does not confuse us as you ponder your confusion.
My point for you is this"
QUESTION: DID THE EARTH PRE_EXIST CREATION WEEK?
Dave says NO. Rob says YES.
Let's discuss this because all your theory depends upon this one point. And all my theory depends upon this one point.
You say earth existed in chaos naturally as God deals with chaos naturally and formed earth with darkness as a natural reminder of RA for humans. Than God created archons to do more RA.
Where did God create these archons? Heaven or earth? If God was forming creation around earth, than surely the archons were created for earth already? Do you agree?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Apr 9, 2022 17:28:14 GMT -5
Pardon me Dave, but I have been through a few of these so called false claims you make, and defended them well enough, so I thought? No you justified why they might be true
If making Ellen White into a false prophet is so important to you, why is this so important to you? You do not follow her anyway, whereas I do.
Correct – you have a 2 god system based upon satan I embrace Judeo-Christian Spiritual theology We do not give our praise to the same God
If fact you have no inspired strong authority in which to follow in your understanding of torah, you more or less follow your own theories,
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Scripture has been true for 5000 years – God has been teaching His people for 5000 years – Christ promised to send the Comforter – the bulk of mainstream Judeo-Christianity
You throw it all away for Ellen White that teaches you that you cannot be the first fruits – do even try to be – just do daily rituals and hope for the First resurrection Ellen White – the SDA as you present them are not Christ centered – they are satan Centered
You even admit that Luke and Matthew write different things on Jesus birth Absolutely correct – infallible as to teaching / message because they must stand with precept upon precept, line upon line NOT – letter for letter – word for word – spelling for spelling – or ever verse for vere So many textual criticisms – indicate 1- human error 2- human edit 3- deliberate attempts to add or detract
This is exactly why scripture REQUIRES – precept upon precept, line upon line validate by the whole
You admit you don't like Ezekiel the prophet, NEVER HAVE I SAID THIS MR HONEST Christian- who cannot stop lying – misrepresenting Ezk does not agree textually with the Torah – it has been a centuries old debate / discussion
who write different things on offerings, and fallen angels. One verse does not rewrite the whole – it must stand precept upon precept, line upon line You have been asked to present that precept upon precept, line upon line evidence You gave up – said all you need is Ezk 28 and Rev 12:7 One verse does not rewrite the whole – it must stand precept upon precept, line upon line
6. WAS THE PLAN OF SALVATION MADE AFTER THE FALL? We have been through this. God know all things about sin before sin happened YES – I say from the beginning God’s Plan / God’s Will You say - before the fall God know and was ready is your answer Ellen White says – after the fall
8. WAS ADAM DECEIVED BY SATAN? D"BIBLE: NO " 1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. You gave up - you avoided the truth – you deflected – you attempted to change the subject
R" Eve was cheated by the serpent, and so transgressed. Was Adam cheated However it is still a deception. You are offering a justification - the answre is yes or no WAS ADAM DECEIVED BY SATAN? BIBLE = NO – clearly Ellen White = YES -
Your view is so full of holes, and your brevity will not discuss with me. Here is my discussion - BIBLE say clearly NO 1 Tim 2:14 Ellen White says YES
Too brief – let me expand – Ellen White contradicts scripture – Ellen White contradicts scripture– Ellen White contradicts scripture– Ellen White contradicts scripture
9. WHO PLUCKED THE FRUIT? So the devil gave a fruit to Eve, and later Eve plucked another for herself. What is the problem? NO the devil pluck the fruit and gave it to Eve – later Eve plucked the fruit Bible says - Gen 3:6 … she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, …
Too brief – let me expand – Ellen White contradicts scripture – Ellen White contradicts scripture– Ellen White contradicts scripture– Ellen White contradicts scripture
D"If there is one tiny error it is all garbage – Robert’s rule for others R Yes Dave, but you already admit torah has errors? Why do you bother reading a Bible of errors? It is not my rule – I am a realist It is your rule for others – do you live by your own standards
My point for you is this" QUESTION: DID THE EARTH PRE_EXIST CREATION WEEK? Dave says NO. – there was nothing before gen 1:1 except God Rob says YES. – contradictory to Gen 1:1
Let's discuss this because all your theory depends upon this one point. And all my theory depends upon this one point.
Correct – you – Ellen White and the SDA the way you present them NEED someone else to blame! It is not your fault – satan did it – satan is responsible
SCRIPTURE SAYS - Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
you – Ellen White and the SDA the way you present them NEED someone else to blame! It is not your fault – satan did it – satan is responsible
SCRIPTURE SAYS - Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
you – Ellen White and the SDA the way you present them NEED someone else to blame! It is not Eve’s fault – satan did it – satan is responsible
AND WHEN YOU MEET JUDGEMENT DO YOU THINK It is not your fault – satan did it – satan is responsible will help you in any way before the Lord?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2022 12:25:59 GMT -5
D"Scripture has been true for 5000 years – God has been teaching His people for 5000 years – Christ promised to send the Comforter – the bulk of mainstream Judeo-Christianity
You throw it all away for Ellen White that teaches you that you cannot be the first fruits – do even try to be – just do daily rituals R" I read Scripture under the HS influence, much of my learning is not the same as the SDA. We do not do daily rituals either? D" You have been asked to present that precept upon precept, line upon line evidence You gave up – said all you need is Ezk 28 and Rev 12:7 R" Arrh no, I have lined up many pieces of Scripture you also ignore?
1) Earth pre-existed Creation Week (you ignore this idea) 2) Why was darkness upon earth already? (sin affect?) 3) Why did Jesus say devil fell from heaven like lightning? 4) Obviously a war in heaven, now a war on earth (Rev 12) 5) Cherub sinned (Ek 28)
These are some of the major players, there are scores of others you ignore.
D"YES – I say from the beginning God’s Plan / God’s Will You say - before the fall God know and was ready is your answer Ellen White says – after the fall R" The answer is both, has to be both, because players acted out sinning, and GOD reacts to that sinning with solutions for man's salvation. However God also knows all things, including the RA sinning makes.
D"You are offering a justification - the answer is yes or no WAS ADAM DECEIVED BY SATAN? BIBLE = NO – clearly Ellen White = YES - R" The answer is both, Adam did not transgress because the serpent told him to, Adam's transgression happened because the woman sinned, and He chose to sin with her, die with her. Hoping that He would not die as God said.
D"Here is my discussion - BIBLE say clearly NO 1 Tim 2:14 Ellen White says YES R" ALright what does the Greek word "apatao" mean ?
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: 1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Jas 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Can you build a strong word meaning based on three verses? Hmm?
What is the Hebrew equivalent for this Greek word, is a nore important question for me? I dunno
Perhaps you can tell me using the LXX?
D"Bible says - Gen 3:6 … she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, R" Bible doesn't detail all the details.
D"there was nothing before gen 1:1 except God R" Oh so no other universes exist except this one? No other worlds, all beings came together at the same time?
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy
Who are these than praising God during earth's creation than? Obviously not earth creatures, but heavenly creatures, or creatures from other worlds maybe?
You shove a spiritual creation into Gen 1:2 and violate Scripture, it says God created OUR heavens and OUR earth, not THE heavens and than the earth, with it's heaven (skies).
Why I showed you a Rabbi who agrees with me earth pre-existed Creation Week, but you ignore us? Such an almighty God only creates ONE universe for all His creatures, with only ONE creature having free will? How limited you make God's abilities to be?
D"AND WHEN YOU MEET JUDGEMENT DO YOU THINK It is not your fault – satan did it R" Hmm? God has made provision to overcome the sinning agent or opposer of GOD, this power to overcome is freely available to all who seek, that none are without excuse. From my discussions with you, you do not seem to understand the power of amanuah in Jesus?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Apr 11, 2022 1:24:37 GMT -5
D"Scripture has been true for 5000 years – God has been teaching His people for 5000 years – Christ promised to send the Comforter – the bulk of mainstream Judeo-Christianity
We do not do daily rituals either? They why do you say here that you must practice belief daily – or you can lose your salvation (Which is a satanic teaching by the way)
D" You have been asked to present that precept upon precept, line upon line evidence You gave up – said all you need is Ezk 28 and Rev 12:7 R" Arrh no, I have lined up many pieces of Scripture you also ignore? Every one of the 23 + 49 = your satan opposing man – not God So then – you said – opposing man is opposing God So I asked – why do you call God satan – the god of evil – when God opposes man STILL NO ANSWER!
1) Earth pre-existed Creation Week (you ignore this idea) Absolutely I ignore it – before Gen 1:1 there was only God
2) Why was darkness upon earth already? (sin affect?) Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned. DUH – Eve was not even created yet
3) Why did Jesus say devil fell from heaven like lightning? BECAUSE THE ARCHON WERE EJECTED FROM HEAVEN - DUH
4) Obviously a war in heaven, now a war on earth (Rev 12) The war in heaven was no Contest for my omnipotent God – over in an instant Only your satan god is strong enugh to stand against God YES – Gen 3:15 is between man and WORLD and man and ARCHON
5) Cherub sinned (Ek 28) Every one of the 23 + 49 = your satan opposing man – not God So then – you said – opposing man is opposing God So I asked – why do you call God satan – the god of evil – when God opposes man STILL NO ANSWER!
I have asked you for a pre-Roman source evidence STILL NO ANSWER
Just because you repeat Catholic Catechism verbatim – does not make it true
D"YES – I say from the beginning God’s Plan / God’s Will You say - before the fall God know and was ready is your answer Ellen White says – after the fall R" The answer is both, - JUSTIFICATION
D"You are offering a justification - the answer is yes or no WAS ADAM DECEIVED BY SATAN? BIBLE = NO – clearly Ellen White = YES - R" The answer is both, - NOW YOU DENY SCRIPTURE
1Ti 2:14 Also Adam was not deceived (G538) but the woman—being deceived, she fell into transgression.
Gen 3:13 Adonai Elohim said to the woman, “What did you do?” The woman said, “The serpent deceived (G538) me and I ate.”
G538 = Of uncertain derivation; to cheat, that is, delude: - deceive.
D"Bible says - Gen 3:6 … she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, R" Bible doesn't detail all the details. D"Bible says - Gen 3:6 … she took of the fruit
D"there was nothing before Gen 1:1 except God R" Oh so no other universes exist except this one? No other worlds, all beings came together at the same time? There is only one creation and one Creator – it was a 10 dimensional creation
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2022 3:39:45 GMT -5
D" Then why do you say here that you must practice belief daily – or you can lose your salvation (Which is a satanic teaching by the way)R" Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble The Opposer of GOD lived obviously under this system of amanuah, and obviously hated doing it. But that is my two pennies worth, I am no expert on the subject. ANd unless nobody experiences amanuah with me, we might have whole CHristians pretending to be Jesus power containers? Amanuah is a daily process, yes, but certainly not a ritual. Think of it like electricity, if the jug is not plugged in daily, the water never gets hot. It's a process , not a ritual. D" Every one of the 23 + 49 = your satan opposing man – not God So then – you said – opposing man is opposing God So I asked – why do you call God satan – the god of evil – when God opposes man STILL NO ANSWER!R" Not sure what you're saying, but happy to have a go.... God is an opposer, Scripture gives us an example of God's messenger opposing Baalim, the sinner who sins. I get the impression, God opposes missing, because you are using His powers for selfish reasons, and thus this is a transgression of the rules of love. In SDA circles we say God loves the human but hates the sin. In fact any creature that sins is by defintion opposing God. And the reaction of GOD is to naturally oppose the sinning that person does, or preposes to do. But God is loving and kind, so gives the sinners a probation to seek Him correctly. One day long ago, before Humans existed , a first cherub sinned, and thus became an opposer. This is all the Hebrew word means in both verb and noun forms. It's not a name. It's a condition of relationship. An opposer is a being who cannot have a healthy relationship with you. And that is why the devil is called an opposer, because the devil willingly using free will, chooses to sin. Now if Jesus called the Father of lies, the devil a murderer, than the devil has free will and loves to kill humans, as well as seek to derstroy them. The only reason he doesn't destroy as much as he likes is because God limits the destruction and places boundaries on what the opposer can do to God's creation. You make a big deal that the devil only opposes man. But that is not so. Ps 17:8 ¶ Keep me as the apple of the eye, hide me under the shadow of thy wings, If God loves humans made in His image, than any sinning creature causing mischief to humans is also opposing God. You also made out the devil only attacked the humanity in CHrist, and not the divinity in Christ. This is a false report on your part.Can human power alone make stones into bread? No, only amanuah in God can do this. The devil didn't ask that question. Mt 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. The devil asked if this human was GOD, than make the bread using you own divine power. But Jesus refused. I gave up on your line by line idea, because you are blind to the evidence before your eyes in Scripture. RP" 1) Earth pre-existed Creation Week (you ignore this idea)D" Absolutely I ignore it – before Gen 1:1 there was only GodR" I am not talking about the sovereignty of GOD, stop changing the subject. I am saying God made other universes and other worlds before He made ours. You seem to think God created angels at the same time as earth. than the only creatures that exist is OUR HEAVEN and OUR EARTH. SO God lives in OUR universe? I don't think so. You limit GOD to ONE off creation. How pathetic is that. God can create a trillion worlds in a trillion dimensions of space, because He can do anything, but not according to your view, your God is small and made ALL things in a one off creation. The question I pose to you is how Almighty is God in your view? Not much from my viewpoint. You speak of mere 10 dimensions of ONE universe....how small is your mind RP"2) Why was darkness upon earth already? (sin affect?)D" R om 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned. DUH – Eve was not even created yetR" Are you dull? You should have said God creates always in chaos and darkness first, its natural to God starting things this way, but you didn't? Instead you quote a time frame 33 years after the Creation of earth in its darkness, and say the darkness was there from Adam's sin? I though Adam was made day 6, not before day 1? Than to add more brevity and confusion you add, Eve was not created yet, and you posted Eve sinned first not Adam. Is there any logic in your view? How do I know chosek is about SIN? Because Scripture says so. ANother line upon line you ignore. Ac 26:18 ...and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, Right here. Darkness comes when a sinner turns from God. SO obviously something sinned long before humans existed. Now I have two proofs, some other creature sinned before humans. RP "3) Why did Jesus say devil fell from heaven like lightning?D" BECAUSE THE ARCHON WERE EJECTED FROM HEAVEN - DUHR" Where does Scripture say the archon creatures were created in heaven, and later banished to earth. Why were they banished if they were supposed to be in heaven? Can't God program RA creatures to remain sinlessly RA, and thus keep them in heaven? Why banish them to earth for thinking of self? Hang on a programmed creature cannot make such thinking, unless you now say God is capable to making RA creatures make RA decisions on purpose? If that is so, why are humans with free will blamed for sin than, while archons are not blamed? Your theories do not stand investigation, and you do not detail you view. My view is easy to fathom. Long ago in another universe different from ours, where GOD lived with his creature free will creatures, were his best creatures of free will, his cherubims. One day a close cherub decided to sin, and make himself oppose God and thus by defintion became an opposer of all God is and loves. So God kicked the sinning angels onto a lonely planet, all lovely and perfect, and left the planet alone, as God does to sinners, so the planet went to formless, void and "absolute zero" all with RA. Than God has a sin problem and decides to stop sin arising a second time, by creating another universe around this planet earth prison for sinning angels, and so we have our Creation Week story. My view is so much more logical and fits all the torah Scripture, your view doesn't and you admit this. You ignore Ez 28 for example. RP " 4) Obviously a war in heaven, now a war on earth (Rev 12) D" The war in heaven was no Contest for my omnipotent God – over in an instantR" You have no regard for GOD who is love dealing with sinning cherubims for the first time. How can God deal with them in an instant? What would other sinless sons of God think? Either God is love or a tyrant? D" I have asked you for a pre-Roman source evidence STILL NO ANSWERR" I gave you two sources of evidence? CHinese pictographs depict a secret devil with 4 prototypes of sinning. Waldenses before 300AD wrote of the devil to avoid and disdain. D" Just because you repeat Catholic Catechism verbatim – does not make it trueR" Can't you ponder your confusion and follow truth, or do you seek a brand new unfollowed truth, no other religion has ever seen before? Scripture tells us of this error Da 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. 38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not SO your view is brand new, totally different, you are afraid of getting messed seeking the truth from the confusion? D" There is only one creation and one Creator – it was a 10 dimensional creationR" I see, so GOD doesn't do Creating anymore. Only once. When I get to heaven I will not be allowed to create houses for fun, more than one, only allowed the one God made for me? Are you so proud to tell God what to do? Surely God loves to create and made brand new Creations all the time, just for the fun of it. There is plenty of space, no time, and infinity of stuff within God. COme on Dave, stop limiting your God's abilities and pleasures. The only think God hates is dealing with sinning. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Apr 12, 2022 8:59:16 GMT -5
Amanuah is a daily process, yes, but certainly not a ritual. YOU POST - a list of approprite prayers to repeat You Post - if you don’t practice belief - you can lose your salvation Are you changing your beliefs on this as well?
D"Every one of the 23 + 49 = your satan opposing man – not God So then – you said – opposing man is opposing God God is an opposer, Scripture gives us an example of God's messenger opposing Baalim, the sinner who sins. You consider your god as the opposer - satan
In fact any creature that sins is by defintion opposing God Why does your satan god sin by opposing Balaam Please explain your teaching
Ra is a sin - and is always a sin - unless God does it then you have no answer
One day long ago, before Humans existed , a first cherub sinned, and thus became an opposer. In your world both your gods and your angels are satan - I think you obsessed with satan
RP" 1) Earth pre-existed Creation Week (you ignore this idea) D" Absolutely I ignore it – before Gen 1:1 there was only God R" I am not talking about the sovereignty of GOD, stop changing the subject. There was nothing before Gen 1:1 except the omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient GOD
RP " 4) Obviously a war in heaven, now a war on earth (Rev 12) D" The war in heaven was no Contest for my omnipotent God – over in an instant R" You have no regard for GOD who is love dealing with sinning cherubims for the first time. How can God deal with them in an instant? Correct - you teach your satan god is so powerful - the Creator has to struggle to kick him out of heaven Correct - you teach a weak god fighting against a strong satan god My Creator is omnipotent - NO CONTEST
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2022 17:41:23 GMT -5
D" YOU POST - a list of approprite prayers to repeat You Post - if you don’t practice belief - you can lose your salvation Are you changing your beliefs on this as well?R" I suggest you study this word before you mock it's Biblical meaning. spiritualsprings.org/ss-1513.htmRP" God is an opposer, Scripture gives us an example of God's messenger opposing Baalim, the sinner who sins. D" You consider your god as the opposer - satanR" See you can't read words even Dave? I said "God is an opposer" only when you do sinning. Dave said "God is THE opposer- Satan" you are very sick my friend Why have you made GOD into THE OPPOSER? You do enjoy mocking me? D" Why does your satan god sin by opposing Balaam Please explain your teachingR" WHy does the divine opposer oppose the created creature Baalim? Because Baalim was on his way to curse Israel, hence do some sinning, the divine opposer did not wish. Hence GOD opposed the sinning. Job 1:8 And the YHWH said unto THE OPPOSER, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth YHWH, and escheweth RA? Here is a different view of the word opposer. Before we saw YHWH as an opposer sending a messenger to stop a human from sinning more. Now we see YHWH talking anout a human doing less sinning, to an opposer. What would this opposer in this context be opposing? Obviously not interested in prosecuting the sinning more, as God says the sinner is sinning less? That is not the meaning of opposer. Obviously the opposer is opposing God because the opposer wants the human to do sinning more, not less. That is the only way to fanthom the context of the opposer. One could say the opposer is opposing the human seeking salvation. After all the opposer asks God to remove the hedge. But the reason for this ask, is to get the human to do more sinning. So summary: God is an opposer of sinning. Baalim story . So the opposer here wants less sinning from humans. In Job the opposer is wanting the human (JOB) to do more sinning. Now we have the proper opposite contexts of this Hebrew word meaning "oppose/opposer" D" Ra is a sin - and is always a sin - unless God does it then you have no answerR" Can't you follow my words all these years? RA is a consequence of sinning, the fruit of sinning, not the sin itself per se' If GOD does a RA to you it's because of some sinning done in you or before you. And I do not see GOD doing the RA, God creates the fruit so you can see your sinning in action. D" In your world both your gods and your angels are satan - I think you obsessed with satanR" mock, it's easy to do isn't it. I can't help it if the Hebrew word is used.... the opposing angel has no Name. Neither does GOD have a Name. D" There was nothing before Gen 1:1 except the omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient GODR" I see. SO God created the angels during the creation of our earth. And darkness is a natural thing God deals with, the entropy of chaos. OK that is your view. You stick with it. Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Notice this one cherub is anointed, and was set up by GOD. Question WHEN was this cherub set up as anointed? And WHEN was this holy mountain of GOD created? Eze 28:18 ...and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: My two pennies is the holy mountain of GOD was NOT earth, but created BEFORE earth. Other unfallen worlds see the fall of this anointed cherub, kicked out from the holy mountain of God. He was banished to earth later. SO this suggests God existed first than the holy mountain existed somewhere in heaven than the cherubims got created One cherub was anointed as very special That cherub sinned ANd was banished to earth, before other unfallen kings of other worlds? THis is a order of events. D" Correct - you teach your satan god is so powerful - the Creator has to struggle to kick him out of heaven Correct - you teach a weak god fighting against a strong satan god My Creator is omnipotent - NO CONTESTR" How you no love, no pity and no kindness towards the sinning anointed angel? And other angels who also sinned? SO because you disagree with me, I should have banished further posts to you after the first post? Where is my kindness and passion and grace towards you pondering confusion? Pride is a difficult thing to remove with love. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Apr 12, 2022 18:09:53 GMT -5
R" I suggest you study this word before you mock it's Biblical meaning. spiritualsprings.org/ss-1513.htm
Posted to this forum – discussed on this forum – line by line Agree – belief is all that is required for salvation
But beliefs can change – yours have
D"Why does your satan god sin by opposing Balaam Please explain your teaching R" WHy does the divine opposer oppose the created creature Baalim? Because Baalim was on his way to curse Israel, hence do some sinning, the divine opposer did not wish. Hence GOD opposed the sinning. YES – that is the question = R" WHy does the divine oppose Why do you call your god satan? The Opposer – the one who opposes man Remember you ow solution – assumption – any one opposing man opposes God So I ask – when God opposes man – why is God opposing himself It is your teaching here -
D"Ra is a sin - and is always a sin - unless God does it then you have no answer R" Can't you follow my words all these years? No Robert - we cannot follow your teaching - you teach different controdictory doctrines - and refurse to clearify - we wonder if you know what you believe or not RA is always the result of sin – your teaching
RA is a consequence of sinning, the fruit of sinning, not the sin itself per se' If GOD does a RA to you it's because of some sinning done in you or before you. Correct – you teach if God does RA – not is not a sin But you say id man does RA – it is always a sin So I asked you – the soldiers in God’s army killing the enemy with forethought and malice – why does your god make them sin
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 15:28:59 GMT -5
D" Agree – belief is all that is required for salvation
But beliefs can change – yours haveR" Amanuah is not a belief.... Second you agreed with me that amanuah is the only way to be saved,
BUT you do not wish to discuss amanuah, you keep going to "belief", a meaningless word in English.
My views have not changed, some aspects have more details thanks to you -------------- D" Why do you call your god satan? The Opposer – the one who opposes man Remember you ow solution – assumption – any one opposing man opposes God So I ask – when God opposes man – why is God opposing himself It is your teaching here - R" Can't you follow my logic in my discussion? God is an opposer of sinning. Baalim story . So the opposer here (ie GOD) wants less sinning from humans.In Job the opposer here ( ie DEVIL) is wanting the human (JOB) to do more sinning. Now we have the proper opposite contexts of this Hebrew word meaning "oppose/opposer" Now how is that GOD opposing Himself? It's not. D" Why do you call your god satan? The Opposer – the one who opposes manR" Isn't that what Scripture terms Himself in the Baalim verse (Numbers 21) ? D" when God opposes man – why is God opposing himselfR" How can GOD is opposing Himself? You speak riddles? First of all I said GOD never opposes man, only the sinning man does. Can't you understand me? The other opposer, (ie DEVIL) opposes man and God, because in a saved condition, this means the end of the opposer's kingdom. Thus the DEVIL wants humans to continue to do sinning.D" So I asked you – the soldiers in God’s army killing the enemy with forethought and malice – why does your god make them sinR" Interesting question, Does GOD actually allow this ? www.desiringgod.org/interviews/what-made-it-okay-for-god-to-kill-women-and-children-in-the-old-testamentNice comments on this question I quote" It's right for God to slaughter women and children anytime he pleases. God gives life and he takes life. Everybody who dies, dies because God wills that they die.
God is taking life every day. He will take 50,000 lives today. Life is in God's hand. God decides when your last heartbeat will be, and whether it ends through cancer or a bullet wound. God governs.
So God is God! He rules and governs everything. And everything he does is just and right and good. God owes us nothing.R" Nice ideas . God governs even the sinning creatures and the extent of their sinning. (that includes the Devil and the sinning angels too) God even has to create the RA from their sinning, so the world can see the sinning (that is why we have a medium over all the world of sin). Thus GOD is always in control, He governs everything, including the RA and more importantly the sinning of His creatures,... and this I quote" If I were to drop dead right now, or a suicide bomber downstairs were to blow this building up and I were blown into smithereens, God would have done me no wrong. He does no wrong to anybody when he takes their life, whether at 2 weeks or at age 92.
God is not beholden to us at all. He doesn't owe us anything.
Now add to that the fact we're all sinners and deserve to die and go to hell yesterday, and the reality that we're even breathing today is sheer common grace from God.
R" I could add more, but read the link yourself. I have also added the differences in posts before between ratsach, and "kill", a different Hebrew word. Some where judged by God. Also in the Exodus the people failed to respond to God in amanuah, they responded in works they could do themselves. SO GOD allowed the stiff necks to do as they saw.... This results in doing things that is not ultimately God's will. If we are humble and meek, than God treats us more in love. If we are proud and arrogant, than God treat us less in love. The difference is the degree of missing in our lives and the presence of His powers available to us. I would really ask you, to discuss amanuah with me, so we learn what this process is about, as it is the only way humans are saved daily. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Apr 14, 2022 5:07:39 GMT -5
D"Agree – belief is all that is required for salvation R" Amanuah is not a belief.... Second you agreed with me that amanuah is the only way to be saved,
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
G4100 – πιστεύω - to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.
BUT you do not wish to discuss amanuah, you keep going to "belief", a meaningless word in English.
WORD GAME – call it by any name you like Robert – BELIEF is all that is required for salvation I know you want to make it hard and dutiful – filled with obligation and ritual But it is EASY – required no effort – only belief --------------
D"Why do you call your god satan? The Opposer – the one who opposes man Remember you ow solution – assumption – any one opposing man opposes God So I ask – when God opposes man – why is God opposing himself It is your teaching here - R" Can't you follow my logic in my discussion?
Please try to maintain a consistent theology – oe at least a consistent argument We looked at every 23 + 49 verses – in each verse your satan is opposing man not God Your solution – any one opposing man is opposing God
I am just trying to apply your own teaching to me God opposes man – therefore by your own definition – your God is satan
D"Why do you call your god satan? The Opposer – the one who opposes man R" Isn't that what Scripture terms Himself in the Baalim verse (Numbers 21) ? Thank you – you prove my point – you God is a satan
D"when God opposes man – why is God opposing himself R" How can GOD is opposing Himself? You speak riddles? It is your reiddle – God opposes man – you and scripture claim God is satan
First of all I said GOD never opposes man Now we are back to You God does no RA only Tov Who opposed man ay Sodom and Gomorrah
First you say = First of all I said GOD never opposes man Then you quote" = It's right for God to slaughter women and children anytime he pleases.
So tired of your double speak You do not mean what you say – so it is impossible to tell what your beliefs are because you argue conflicting views
I would really ask you, to discuss amanuah with me, so we learn what this process is about, as it is the only way humans are saved daily. DAILY RITUAL if you are saved why do you need to resaved daily
I posted you position here to this forum – we discussed it in detail – the thread is still here Do you have more to add to it – if you need to change something – do it – stop talking about it
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2022 16:14:43 GMT -5
D"Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
G4100 – πιστεύω - to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.
BUT you do not wish to discuss amanuah, you keep going to "belief", a meaningless word in English.
WORD GAME – call it by any name you like Robert – BELIEF is all that is required for salvation I know you want to make it hard and dutiful – filled with obligation and ritual But it is EASY – required no effort – only belief
R" I pity you lack of Hebrew passion. You stick to your meaningless word. I noticed reading previous posts from years ago, I tried to show you how faith works, but you ignored my posts. Maybe you are not ready?
D"filled with obligation and ritual R" Whatever that means..... --------------------------------------
D"Your solution – any one opposing man is opposing God
I am just trying to apply your own teaching to me R" Really Dave
Consider first whom opposes God, the verb form
Ps 38:20 They also that render evil for good are mine opposers; because I follow good This verse says GOD naturally only follows good, not ra, so people who follow ra are opposing God.
Ps 109:3 They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause. 4 For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto prayer. 5 And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love. 6 ¶ Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand. 7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin. 8 Let his days be few; and let another take his office.
THis passage contains both verb and noun forms of 'oppose'
Verse 4, femaleness love, the love of responding. These people respond negatively.
Set the wicked man over him, and let the opposer stand at his right hand. Who is the active opposer on the wicked man's right hand? Human or Cherub? Verse 8 offers a clue, because the NT referred this to replacing Judas.
Joh 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly. (KJV)
The Opposer here cannot be human, as Judas got possessed by a devil. Therefore the shedim called an Opposer entered Judas to make Judas do more sinning. (ie betray His Saviour unto death)
Zec 3:1 ¶ And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and "The Opposer" standing at his right hand to "oppose" him.
Here are both forms. Question" the opposer is opposing "him" who is "him"?
Must be the angel of the Lord, God's messenger, ie Jesus His Son.
If this opposer was a prosecutor He would not be opposing the Saviour and his human servant also in this role, as saving those on earth with confessed sins, as high priest handle. Such a prosecutor would be working with the Saviour, not opposing the Saviour. So your prosecutor function is false. The opposer is opposing the Saviour, also opposing the human saviour, and in fact opposing the whole concept of reducing the sinning of humans. God on the other hand is opposing the sinning of humans, making them sin less. This function is the role of a Saviour. Contrast to this is the opposer, opposing this process, so the humans keep on sinning more.
1Ch 21:1 ¶ And "the opposer" stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel
Why is this opposer opposing David? Answer
1Ch 21:8 And David said unto God, I have sinned greatly, because I have done this thing:
To help influence David to do more sinning.
2Sa 24:1 ¶ And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
Why was GOD angry against Israel, and allowed the opposer to make Israel do more sinning?
Scripture does not directly say....
Nu 21:5 And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread. 6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died. 7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD,
Here we see clues .... when people sin, God allows them to seek the ruler of their sinning, an opposer who allows the people to enjoy more sinning. But this opposes God, as God wants His people to do less sinning.
It is interesting when God removes his blessing completely, the opposer actually kills the people in their sinning. So sinning is actually a condition of dying to death. Living opposes dying, is another contrasting simile.
I could go through many more of the verses using the "opposer" theme, and the message is clear and simple.
God is opposing the sinning of the human, so he freely wills to do less sinning. The other opposer, who is shedim as a function, but actually a cherub who also sins, enjoys sinning, and wants the humans to do more sinning. Now if there is a creature who enjoys RA and thus enjoys doing more sinning, there should be a verse describing this creature. For your archons or shedim, there is no verse that says they were created nor that they sinned. However their is a verses that says cherubs are created and that cherubs do sin. Hence a war in heaven and so we have a controversy over the sinning problem.
D"God opposes man – therefore by your own definition – your God is satan R" No, show me a single verse where GOD opposes man? The only verse I know is GOD opposes Baalim, the false prophet, and God tells Baalim you are going to bless Israel, rather than curse Israel. SO God is opposing the sinning Baalim might do, not oppose the human called Baalim. What does GOD oppose Dave? Not humans per se', but the sinning humans do? Is this not correct?
If God created both cherubs and humans, God is not going to oppose His creation. God opposes something these creatures do, their sinning.
D"Thank you – you prove my point – you God is a satan R" I do not have a problem calling GOD an Opposer. I ask you what is GOD opposing as the Divine Opposer?
Not his creatures. But the sinning of His creatures. duh
Now I ask you we also have another great opposer mentioned in Scripture. What does this creature oppose? Not humans? The creature is a creature like humans, both are creatures of creation. It's funny when humans do sinning the creature who opposes no longer opposes the humans. So the humans are not the object of the opposer's opposing. Duh do you understand this idea?
The opposer has to be opposing God? Why because sinning is only about God. SInning is actually defined as missing God in your life.
And when humans start sinning less and living with God more, the opposer starts opposing the humans more.
Job is a good example of this.
So I have no problem having a Divine Opposer. The only thing GOD did not create was SIN. How strange, your Gnostic writings say GOD intentionally created RA creature to love sinning, shows me how your God is not an opposer at all, but one who designed sinning. He created archons who love RA. You twist Scripture and God into creating one universe with grand dimensions and only one creature of free will. SO if the archons who love RA tempt humans to do sinning, this is something your God hates. Why is that? If God is both the creator of ra and tov, why must the humans choose freely between the two? Free will you say? OK but you have GOD creating SIN in a natural creature, without free will? You make God into something unfair. You create a double standard.
Scripture says I follow the good. Not the RA. God hates RA proverbs says. Your view is totally weird.
If GOD creates both RA and tov from the beginning, than GOD is not a divine opposer according to you. No wonder you pick on this.
SO you have nothing that GOD actually OPPOSES in man. But God wants Man to seek yester tov, not yester ra. But God cannot oppose yester ra, so God opposes nothing. My view is so much easier to fathom. God opposes SIN. And GOD never naturally creates RA at all. All things are created TOV. So if SIN or RA come into God''s world, God will immediately OPPOSE this.
D"It is your reiddle – God opposes man – you and scripture claim God is satan R" God never opposes His own Creation. Stop writing false post. Yes God is a divine opposer. God opposes SIN in His Creation, not opposes any creatures in His Creation.
D"Now we are back to You God does no RA only Tov Who opposed man ay Sodom and Gomorrah R" Yes GOD only does Tov, correct. Why did God totally destroy SOdom and Gomorrah? Judgement, lake of fire process. A example of what the lake of fire process is like.
Now that the process is complete, does Sodom and Gmorrah sin anymore? No
Did God do any RA ? No
God is living and God can remove His partnership with humans. God has this right.
D"So tired of your double speak R" sorry. DO you have a better God to turn too? Ask Him when you see Him one day face to face, why God did you remove all the sinning people? And God will say because they opposed me with their sinning. When you have the "word" oppose, than in a relationship both entities are opposers. In a tennis match both players are opposes. In a electrical circuit the resistance opposes the current
With GOD and Humans, both are players over the SIN problem. With God and sinning angels, both are players over the SIN problem.
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D"DAILY RITUAL if you are saved why do you need to resaved daily R" Interesting question.
Amanuah is not about salvation per se' it's about you living in Jesus. You are already saved if you remain abiding in Jesus.
The next question is why do I need daily flows of Jesus in me? Because that is what living means? The free will chooses daily words of Jesus that a returned to Jesus, so this living flows in me. And I grow and develop my own nashamah in me that God approves of. Plants drink water every day. It's not a ritual. It is something they do to keep on living. You don't call breathing air and drinking water and eating food a ritual do you?
These are factors that help you do your living.
When you are saved by Jesus, He asks you to keep on living in Him. Is this so hard a request? no
I am the trunk, ye are the branches, abide in me and I will abide in you. We are trees growing by the rivers of living, making fruit in its season. Living is not a ritual, however there are factors we do daily as a sign we are living. Apples do not make fruit in order to prove they are living, they make fruit because they are living.
Shalom
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